Except Sisyphus does not make you fight
#h1-builds-and-combat
wheat elbow
plucky oxide
I'd also point out that not a lot of other gods offer healing. So this, again, is great for players maybe starting out without that health-over-time perk.
trim ingot
new miniboss you fight sisyphus
trim ingot
okay but the second miniboss in tartarus is totally forgettable, i don't even remember what it is
wheat elbow
@trim ingot I would hate that. Sisiphus is my pal
trim ingot
it's some armored witches?
plucky oxide
Boat
trim ingot
i know it's a miniboss room because it has the skull marker but it's just regular enemies
plucky oxide
Skull just means you're fighting elite enemies
wheat elbow
I prefer the boat fdight over regular Asphodel
plucky oxide
Skull + boon? thats the miniboss
wheat elbow
Nice small confined room
plucky oxide
Boat is fun! I always liked boat, no matter the rendition.
wheat elbow
I also always get a small sense of goosebumps when the gitarre sets in
trim ingot
boat has been downgraded from murderboat to gentle smack boat
wheat elbow
Turn the heat up. It will bring the murder back on your boat
Oh my god
now I imagined being on that boat with Tisiphone
MURDERRRRRRRRERR?!
trim ingot
7 murders in asphodel
wheat elbow
Not necessarily shorter but less frustrating
plucky oxide
I keep on going 'wow, i blew through that'
trim ingot
it's 3 stages
wheat elbow
because hyper mobile enemies can't hide themselves or jump away across the room
But the Hydra had a nice nerf
errant narwhal
maybe it’s the pierce from the bow that makes it seem trivial
trim ingot
the voidstones are unarmored and super easy to take out before they can make stuff invincible
wheat elbow
She never does the head to the ground slam three times anymore
plucky oxide
the lack of elite blue stones also helped
wheat elbow
only two times
errant narwhal
and the way I’ve learned to take boons that maximize damage for elysium wins
errant narwhal
or maybe I’ve just improved. But I find it a bit easier than the megagorgon and a lot easier than most aspho rooms
trim ingot
megagorgon is painful if you're sword and the gorgon keeps flying over the lava
plucky oxide
Mega, for me, is a race to see if I can beat the two at the same time.
trim ingot
get back here so i can kill you
plucky oxide
It's tricky, yeah
More dps management rooms like soul catcher pls
That's such a fun design
Though good builds absolutely wreck it
trim ingot
sword and gun special are tools of butterfly mass extinction
turbid needle
I wanna get my Spear, Shield, and Bow clears caught up to Sword and Rail, but I don't wanna use Varatha.
What do you guys do to make it less painful?
dire citrus
turbid needle
Gotta really abuse the Dash Attack to make it work.
plucky oxide
Spear clears are somethin'. Honestly, it's super dependent on hammers, though it's base line isn't bad. Just limiting. Focus on using spin attack and play Artemis crit, or Ares/Aphro doom builds with special.
shrewd veldt
okay i've not used cast before but thanks for the recommendation I really like aphro's cast. I got the bone hydra down to 5% and then one of his homing missles looped around and hit me in the back so I'm back home again xD
atomic panther
Nice!
wheat elbow
Could have had more, but sloppy play got in the way.
And Shielders
And sometimes, dodging over gaps is just heinous.
In summary, I completely flawlessed tartarus for 30%, botched about half of Asphodel, Hydra included which still got me to 40% and the last 10% I gathered together in Elysium. One of those in the Soul Eater fight
wheat elbow
I did record it. I will put it up.....
Saturday or Sunday
Actually, no
I will upload it later
I have made two, one with Frenzy, active, one without
With Frenzy, I got to 35%, without to 50
hushed ledge
comparing gun special to sword special makes sword special seem very not great
plucky oxide
Gun special is delayed.
Sword special is immediate.
Gun special has an upgrade that lets it deploy 3 times the projectiles
Sword special has an upgrade that lets it deploy 2 times
Gun special has a longer refresh rate
Sword special has a faster refresh rate
Gun special is a projectile
Sword special must always be around your character
I'd say the two are very balanced. Both extremlely powerful, yes. But balanced nonetheless. I'd say rail special also has the bonus of being easier to deploy and kite (with less overall accuracy), but a good handle on the sword can keep you in combat and healthy through the entire fight
trim ingot
sword special also has knockback around you
shrewd veldt
what're the best gods to support sword special?
shrewd veldt
are most of the things that boost crit from chaos?
plucky oxide
try artemis special.
athena special makes you invincible during the animation
hushed ledge
i feel that sword special being immediate doesn't really matter because the range of gun special means that it has the same thing, and the longer refresh rate is balanced out by not needing to take any risks at all to use it
sword special isn't awful
trim ingot
i find it hard to hit zippy enemies unless i can just spam triple bomb tho
hushed ledge
but just the pure safety of gun special is nuts
plucky oxide
defensively? yes, gun special is better
hushed ledge
the goal for hitting zippy enemies is to aim where they'll end their zip
defense allows for more offense though
because you don't die
plucky oxide
the best offense is enemies that no longer exist
hushed ledge
it doesn't matter how much damage you do if you don't die
plucky oxide
the best defense is fighting no enemies
hushed ledge
but there's a point at which you have to fight them
and that point is about not getting hit
trim ingot
if you can absolutely reliably dodge all the time then sure, you can get by on a trickle of offense
plucky oxide
lets say theres four enemies next to one another. do you
a. dash in and immediately kill them all
b-a. lob a projectile at them all, and kite their attacks until your projectile hits, hopefully killing them all
b-b. lob a projectile towards the direction you think they'll move, and kite their attacks, hopefully killing them all
b-c. dash in to the middle and trigger their attacks, launching special while they're all in the middle of their attack animations on you, and dashing (hopefully) before they hit you, to kill them all
As long as the damage you're doing nukes the target down, sword special takes a lot of the guesswork out of the equation. both sword and rail can nuke targets. but rail doesnt do so immediately
hushed ledge
thats fair
if it nukes them, sword is better
100%
but when it doesn't gun is better imo
plucky oxide
Which is why Artemis special on sword is absolutely nuts. Heck, even using sword special to immediately of triggering status ailments on enemies, so that I can get Privleged Status off for my main-damage attack, is awesome. Charm, sick, or curse on sword? Phenomenal.
If the goal is to play safe, and focus on kiting, to whittle down enemies health from a safe distance, then yes. Rail special is awesome.
But the nice thing about this game is that often times, other weapons and loadouts could suit your boon list better, and greatly mix up playstyle. Just because these two moves do a large damage AOE, the way they change up strategy is unique to them.
meager oriole
Just did a bow special run. I started thinking it was a bad idea, ended up loving it
Its kind of amusing using the bow with a strategy of getting in enemies faces and shooting at point blank range
poison on dash, deflect and exposed on special, so dashing right behind someone and hitting with a full quiver melts everything. Asterius was down in seconds, and I think Theseus only got to use his zeus boon a few times before following
wheat elbow
Yeah, bow special can be amazing
The fact that it now actually flinches hit enemies is just gureato
Still do not feel comfortable using it up close on frenzied runs
meager oriole
it definitely feels like a yolo strat. I went through a lot of rooms just hoping I killed stuff before getting hit too much
hushed ledge
My bow clear I'd say was a "special" build, I had level 5 rare Ares on special and some of the hammers for it so my strategy was literally to use it, dash away, use it again, and repeat until they died
I cleared with that at 440 darkness somehow
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, I will upload a video in a couple of minutes
The one where I got 50% Pierced Butterfly and the other one where I got 35% on a Frenzy Run
visual bone
Hi all. The addition of 'stacking' keepsakes like butterfly/plume has got me thinking. Whilst I'm pretty terrible at the moment, I still enjoy the added challenge/reward involved with taking these. What other challenges do you think the developers might use if they were to continue adding similar keepsakes?
Examples off the top of my head which I think mix things up but can be used in a wide variety of builds:
- Kill X enemies with traps/walls
- kill streak (kill x enemies in a row without pausing)
- use dash <n times per room
- use backstab +n times per room
kindred tree
kiss streak is covered by the treasure troves
few dashes are done with the chaos boon
backstab is counterproductive because it encourages you to have low damage
green birch
I’ve been converted to Freak Accident
trim ingot
Time to attempt a shield clear
trim ingot
Dang I almost could have got 7 dds
crimson geyser
shield > all
plucky oxide
Been having a lot of fun with shield, myself.
Thunder Shield
Requires: Zeus Special
-while not as damaging as Ares Special in base form, can quickly snowball into huge value
Hammer: Explosive Return
-on return, deals 50 damage, and moreso, is still considered part of your special, meaning it triggers Thunder
Keepsakes:
Floor 1: Zeus
Floor 2: Any Status-Ailment-Bearing-God
Floor 3: Situational/Preference
+Privileged Status easily obtained due to dashing and attacking slots being free. Ares, Dio, and Aphro are huge picks.
Attack: Ares, Aphro, Dio (PS)
Special: Zeus
+++ High Voltage (Zeus)
+++ Double Strike (Zeus)
++ Static Discharge (Zeus) (PS)
Dash: Ares, Aphro, Dio (PS)
Cast: Optional
Wrath : Optional
finite grail
Man, had a really good run where I was using bow with Poseidon double knock back, knockback on attack, and 150% slam damage but I got destroyed by the butterfly machine
plucky oxide
The unstoppable arrow meets the immovable o r b
finite grail
Truly, the orb cannot be touched
green birch
“Any status ailment bearing god”
That’s any god except Hermes isn’t it
austere pebble
one does not simply touch the orb
plucky oxide
"Any status ailment bearing god" equates to any god that is highly likely to give you status ailment as your next boon
That is easiest with Aphrodite, as all of her damage outputs have status attached to them
Followed by Dio and Ares, who have status ailments attached to some of their primary boons
Followed by any other god, as long as you have the conditions unlocked to acquire their status ailment (easiest to acquire from zeus,then poseidon, then athena, and then artemis)
So, floor 2 keepsake says Any Status Ailment God, because if your boon-luck gave you poseidon dash in floor one, its okay to take poseidon as your keepsake, but the primary reason you'd be doing so is to get the god's status ailment. Hence the phrasing "any status ailment bearing god"
wheat elbow
Real talk here
Screw Zeus
He tends to be stingy with Jolted whenever it counts the most
unkempt pagoda
i think he's already screwing something sorry
turbid needle
Right? "Oh, really, Jolted twice when I just had your Wrath but nothing now?"
wheat elbow
It's the worst.
turbid needle
Or worse, you throw on their trinket for Asphodel or Elysium and they show up ONCE with two commons and one rare that's completely superfluous or outright harmful for your build.
wheat elbow
Yeah, that is what Zeus and Aphrodite have been like on my last run.
Super disappointed
austere pebble
them's the breaks
plucky oxide
rng giveth and rng taketh away
wheat elbow
Yeah, not a big fan of RNG.
At least not when it bites me
Or comes in abundance when you don't need it
austere pebble
I, too, love the lottery when I win
green birch
jolted + freak accident +hunters mark = bonus damage for daaayyyzz
pulsar eagle
Sorry if this is asked a lot, but does anyone have have thoughts on which hammer upgrades are best for each weapon?
pastel jolt
depends on your playstyle and the rest of your build
zinc shore
shotgun rail is the only one that matters
plucky oxide
Hammers are heavily dependent on the boons you have already acquired, but do an amazing job helping to define your character. I wouldn't say there are ultimately superior options, just some flavors that are situationally better than others.
zinc shore
because its a shotgun
plucky oxide
It all comes down to playstyle for a lot of people. It's good to define on-hit builds, where the damage is coming from the proc of your attack, and damage stacking builds, where the damage % values of your attack are really high.
zinc shore
if you have doom on autos you might wanna pick something that has low speed but high power but if you have like poison or knockback you might want something to spam your special/attack more
depends
or you could just pick the thing that sounds the most meme
pulsar eagle
...Like shotgun rail?
zinc shore
hell yea
still unsure about what weapon i think is the best
only one im not feeling is the bow
started today and game feels nice 👌
plucky oxide
I finally got that amazing double duo boon of
Ares / Aphro - refreshes cooldown of curse on weak enemies for less damage
Ares / Athena - immediately consumes curse on enemies hit with deflect
And I can safely say.... it does not work!
Deflect will consume the curse, and that won't trigger the refresh from Aphro
zinc shore
sad
meager oriole
exploding launcher spear
double arrows bow special
all the shield ones are boring
double nova + super nova sword
heavy slug cannon
toxic acorn
massive spin is absolutely the best spear hammer what even
unkempt pagoda
counterpoint: quick spin
pastel jolt
but consider: both
unkempt pagoda
but consider: playing shield instead
finite grail
fair! love me the captain America 7 bounce upgrade
plucky oxide
Shield upgrades are insane. The faster charge time with no knockback means your up-time of blocking is insane.
Combine that with the power shot and you're a never-stopping pinball. Just have to make sure your timing is good enough to handle the amount of actions you're using.
pastel jolt
i've never been any good with the shield ;n;
unkempt pagoda
dashing wallop 😌
plucky oxide
Shield dash hammer turns an amazing dash attack into something wild. It also fits wonderfully with a lot of different shield builds.
I definitely know im worst with rail. Too hammer dependent for my liking. Going special and never getting the triple special upgrade is so painful.
TIL that getting the elongated spear hammer doesn't elongate your 'dash attack'. It really is just the ability to be able to stab while dashing.
finite grail
what’s yalls set up for heat out of curiosity
I keep wanting too but it seems so severe to put 25 down or whatever
pastel jolt
my setup for heat is that i try not to think about the pact ever.
green birch
honestly just start with 5 and go from there
pastel jolt
i have the first statue and that is plenty enough for me
finite grail
haha, gotcha
unkempt pagoda
maxing out whipped, vicious, and misery then getting athena dashing wallop
tawdry jackal
can I just enter the chat?
I've been going as far with the Pact of Punishment as possible lately (up to 83 Heat last time, trying to get the Bone Statues)
and hell, I barely got through Tisiphone with 6 HP and no Death Saves XD
died to the Hydra later on
and just now, tried playing without any Pain
and god
42% on Pierced Butterfly
a ton of epic boons (maxed out Mirror, except the Fate Door thing on the bottom)
and
I defeated Theseus and Asterius in 3 minutes
that. was. insane
never won so fast!
as for weapons
I can play anything
except spear, that one I have never even got to Elysium with
all the others I have won the game with so far
normally with shield I focus a lot with Poseidon Special Knockback and all Special Hammers I can get
Longer Special & Normal Attack + 8 Bounces before coming back + Poseidon Knockback +250% damage
no enemies even touched me that run
the same with Bow, I like to put Doom on Special and spam
I put Poseidon on Bow once and couldnt stop laughing at the SPEED everyone was flying away with the shots XD
lost rose
poseidon bow special + the bow hammer that gives you +100% arrows in your special 👌
lost rose
also extremely good
but i was having such a good time in elysium with those poseidon wall slam buffs + cannon bow special
plucky oxide
Also surprisingly good with Artemis special, for some reason. If you can manage to get bow + her wrath + the crit chance wrath generation
lost rose
i haven't played hades in like a month, i'm gonna get out of practice gkjfg
plucky oxide
Just did the mythical hunting blades + ares legendary combo
I've never seen a health bar drain so fast
lost rose
it's what they deserve.
tawdry jackal
how do you use Artemis Wrath right?
like, I understand that the farther away you are, more damage they make but
still is the Wrath that deals the least damage for me!
plucky oxide
kill all the hydra heads
wait for hydra to hiss at you, meaning the barrier is gone
be standing in the middle of the stage, on the very bottom
hit wrath button, let artemis ask if you remember her
watch as all of hydra's health goes away
hydra immediately starts the next additional head phase
Peak Dio
rugged apex
ha ha, wow
plucky oxide
Fated Authority rng manipulation
rugged apex
reroll, reroll!
hushed ledge
inb4 actual rng manip
plucky oxide
If you have two doorways, one with Coin, and one with Heart
Reroll to get pom. It's the only one not in the reroll pool, asides from the awkward times you get a god duel room.
Dio also scales really well with this pom stacking, as his first upgrade is 2, and every subsequent pom is an additional 1.
Also works really well with a few other abilities, but theres still a lot of rng involved to be this successful. Helps to never pick up boons, either.
Deflect on sword is amazing. Having double nova in Asterius + Theseus fights just lets you turn yourself invincible for huge amounts of time.
trim ingot
did you reroll to avoid boons too or just luck
stable oyster
I Terrill the skeleton boss to get a god I like (Artemis) for the rest of the run
Reroll *
pastel jolt
i mean, that's not exactly "rng manipulation", that's just... how the pool for room rewards works
there's a limit on hammers and you can't have both exits giving the same reward, so rerolling on a coin/heart room will give you either a boon or a pom because those are the only choices left
plucky oxide
Fated authority is exactly rng manipulation. It's just manipulation thats built into the game. By using Fated Authority on doors with coin/heart, you're pretty much guaranteed a pom. Boons dont often show up on those rerolls, and when they do, rerolling that boon again into a hermes boon is super choice
hushed ledge
its controlling rng, but imo manip refers specifically to using things outside of the game to affect the manip
pulsar eagle
So are you supposed to get just food as a possible reward after an Erebus room?
To clarify, one of the three rooms offers a room with food as a reward
plucky oxide
semantics. manipulate has two definitions, in a skillful manner and in a clever/unfair manner. If the term rng manipulation is gamer speak for fiddling with code so be it, but i'd much rather say rng manipulation over controlling rng. I've got no hold per say, but I like to think I understand and know how to get the most out of something considered random.
and yes, you can get food as a reward Cynidea
fluid moat
an RNG manipulation only means that you are affecting the base roll values in the game by some effect, it doesnt matter where, doesn't matter how; ie Fated Authority and God's Pride from the Mirror of Night are RNG manipulations
another example is selecting "Give Up" from the menu as a form of RNG manipulation for your next run, as opposed to dying to reset a run
because you are seeded for the first few rooms the same
pure fox
hunting blades + burst shot + rapid cast + fully loaded build too strong https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/485515221553905714/597379107818438666/Hades_01011.png
im sorry than
teal helm
@wheat elbow it's better to split your suggestions into one ideo per post; when multiple ideas are an all-or-nothing proposition, it disincentives voting at all...
toxic acorn
fated is technically rng manip BUT the genre usually just calls it a reroll, so like whatever
sorry im late to the party
sly dirge
Question about Theseus, which gods does he call upon? Does he ask for help from gods other than Aphrodite, Poseidon, and Artemis or are those all of the gods that will help him?
turbid needle
He invokes a random god that is not currently supporting you.
oblique jackal
Zeus will help him
sly dirge
So he can invoke any of the gods excluding Hermes and Chaos. Good to know as I have only seen him use the three I mentioned earlier.
pastel jolt
i've seen dionysus and zeus the most often but yeah, any of the olympians except hermes
turbid needle
Upgrades the boon one rarity level, including up to Heroic.
turbid needle
A replacement will always be one rarity higher.
pure oriole
So if I really want a boon gor a specific slot, its worth picking a "okay" one early one in order to have more chance of finding the one I'm lookinh for in a nice rarity?
pure oriole
I'll give it a try since I mostly look for the same specific boon, and I'll see if I feel like it makes it better
Thanks 
finite grail
i got an epic version of the hermes dash boon and gotta say.... 5 dashes is exceessive and I love it
turbid needle
So, Wine-God's Stupor is actually kinda devastating against bosses if you've can proc Privileged Status.
plucky oxide
Fun fact if you want to avoid the bull's charge, dash into the wall and then away, instead of using both to dash away from the wall. Often times, you might dash away too soon, and allow him to hairpin turn towards you. But by dashing into the wall, he's guaranteed to follow you directly into the wall.
zinc shore
so if I beat minos outside of the boss fight will he have lower health
pastel jolt
yes
zinc shore
yay i beat elysium
stable oyster
Congrats
zinc shore
with 10 heat too
the damage protection enemies have with that contract isnt even that bad
wait this isnt meg
didnt help to first try a boss at triple damage
crimson geyser
Whaat you beat Elysium before meeting the other furies??
zinc shore
yes
18th run for the first win
I cant send pic of the run because i dont have posting privileges but shield is pretty good lol
analog sail
You have to post links to images, it's good enough
stable oyster
shield >all
crimson geyser
Lol
Finally cleared Elysium for the first time last week I believe, with the shield of course. I think it was like run 26 or so, I should have screenshotted it oh well
Couldn't have done it without Aphrodite's cast either
Before that run, Zeus cast was my fav
atomic panther
I think it deals pretty much the same dmg, you just don't need to hit the sweetspot to get it all
atomic panther
I don't think it damages per pellet anymore, does it?
stable oyster
im p sure it still hits with at least more then one
plucky oxide
It's flat damage anywhere in the cone, but more importantly, it comes out faster than it used to.
It used to be a spread pattern which awarded being center-aligned against opponents to get the most amount of pellets, but now it's flat damage anywhere in the cone.
Not only did they buff its overall damage, but the increased speed makes it super viable to what it used to be.
meager oriole
I love the zeus cast but also hate it. Way too unreliable in boss fights, seems like it only wants to stick in them 20% of the time
plucky oxide
Ran a Zeus cast run the other day with four second drop time. It was going so slow, but luckily Zeus dropped his legendary for me after a grueling Asterius solo fight. One of the hardest wins I had in a while. The unreliable elements of it are so hard to deal with. Sometimes Aphro casts don't stick in targets as well, but at least when they whiff they're right next to you.
zinc shore
yeah shield feels super strong lol
fast and knocks enemies super far and has a really good dash attack
and then you have the bow
icy edge
This patch's shield feels terrible
Id gladly trade in a quarter of the damage to get back the mobility of last version's shield
plucky oxide
The strength of shield comes from its incredible amount of i-frames and immediate damage. Shield was in an even better spot when it had better buffering, but it's still doable with the right timing.
Bow is really strong, able to dish out even more damage than shield in a lot of situations, but by contrast you have to leave yourself extremely vulnerable.
Shield is the equivalent of bow having full I-frames from the front while you're dishing out damage.
icy edge
Eh, not necessarily if you invest a bit in the dash attack and its timing
Second to shield, bow is imo the safest
plucky oxide
That's the thing, though. I don't think bow is bad. In fact I love the bow.
I just think shield is that much safer.
icy edge
True
People used to swear by spear, but it was always sort of a one trick pony
While the rest are more or less consistent across the board
atomic panther
People swore by spear while it had +50% damage and autocrit with
Vicious Skewer
plucky oxide
Spear special runs are still viable. Spin attacks are high risk high reward. It also offers on-hit effect builds a lot of options. I think spear's in a good place, but could use more flavors of play for each of the above.
icy edge
I'll just keep hoping they bring back the beefy update shield, ignore spear, and shoot the wretched shades of Hades
zinc shore
how strong is railer really
i feel like my runs have been 50/50 with it
special spam with the triple grenade feels strong but on enemies that move a lot you kinda just want to close the game
plucky oxide
Super strong? But super hammer dependent.
zinc shore
i also tried the slug one
80 damage one bullet
its more dps i think but its not as fun
plucky oxide
When I play sword, I build around playing sword. When I play rail, I have to plan around playing one of like four different weapons/playstyles.
zinc shore
I did a crit special sword build once
with the bigger aoe and the double hit
was fun
I think I got a 63% dmg modifier from chaos too
plucky oxide
Yeah it's nasty dps. Really melts everything.
zinc shore
its like being a killer subwoofer
plucky oxide
In earlier versions of the game, Special had massive ending lag. Couldn't even dash or attack out of it.
zinc shore
oh ouch
plucky oxide
The evolution of that weapon to what it is now is insane.
zinc shore
I got this game like 3 days ago
how good is 18th run clear
also somehow only fought meg that whole time
im playing with triple damage on rn lol
plucky oxide
P good. There was a broken hammer upgrade for sword that got me my win really really early, like tenth or twelfth, but the lifesteal has since been removed so I can't really say that was me.
plucky oxide
Hammer upgrade made your thrust heal, and I think at a certain point it made your thrust heal based on the damage it did.
That was also when Artemis dash gave you guaranteed crit for the next X attacks for three seconds.
plucky oxide
It was a different meta, where spear and bow reigned supreme.
sly dirge
I remember those days. Those are gone now that crits have been nerfed and artimis had some reworks.
atomic panther
Crits have been buffed, crit chance has been nerfed
sly dirge
Yah sort of forgot the specifics of that patch. My bad
zinc shore
wait you can stick LANDINGS?
dude this game is great
I just got the poseidon knockback on the shields autos and now this game became pinball
this is hella fun
this is kinda annoying in asphodel tho
sly dirge
Knockback in asphodel used to be really good, since the lava did absurd damage which increased the longer an enemy stood in it. One of the latest patches nerfed the lava damage alot making it no longer a viable way to kill enemies.
turbid needle
Whoa, what's this about one-shotting Longspears?
Those guys recently fell waaay down my list (Theseus' shield is the only really glaring balance flaw enemies have right now), but they're still annoying.
I really hate when the game starts pushing a particular Olympian, ESPECIALLY when they're already completely outside our build.
sly dirge
Stuff like blight and weaken
zinc shore
oh okay, also hammer start 👀
atomic panther
Jolted, Ruptured, Poison, Weak, Doom, Marked, and Blinded are the status effects (I'm still not sure if Slow is)
turbid needle
Slow is not.
sly dirge
Due to how Hermes works his debuff does not count. I checked and slowed enemies did not take more damage than normal enemies, despite having the buff from the mirror
atomic panther
Good to know, thanks
plucky oxide
Zeus - Jolted | On lightning damage
Enemy takes damage when they attack, consuming the status. Duration times out this Status.
Ares - Curse | On damage
Enemy takes damage after short duration, consuming the status.
Aphrodite - Weakness | On damage
Enemies deal less damage. Expires after long duration.
Dionysus - Poison | On damage
Enemy takes damage over time, expires after duration.
Artemis - Marked | On crit
Enemy has global crit chance until next crit, expires after duration.
Poseidon - Ruptured | On knockback
Enemy is dealt damage periodically, dealing more damage when moving. Expires after duration.
Athena - Blinded | On damage with Deflect
Enemy takes more backstab damage. Expires after duration (unsure if consumed from backstab?)
atomic panther
Support Fire with the Rail is so much fun
zinc shore
I feel like I needed either
a better attack
or more attack speed
for this to be really insane
it was fun but the damage was a bit lacking
hollow minnow
I LOOOOOVE the Posidion knockback!!!! It's AWESOME!!!! And Razor Shoals!!!!!
Guys I just finally managed to reach the Hydra on 120 Heat!!!! 😱 😱 😱 I can't believe it!! Although I didn't win, but died 💔 BUT STILL!! And then I attempted to get there again, and failed each time at the Furies. Darn it!!! But now I know I can....it's possible....I'm still going to try to clear it entirely with 120 before the update!!
grand patrol
whoaaaaa!!!!
turbid needle
Hitting a Greatshield in the back with Flurry Blade, completely stunlocking him, and I'm STILL getting "Blocked" messages. This mechanic needs to go.
crimson geyser
That sounds so impossible lol I don't think I've made it past the furies with even 25 heat. Tho to be fair I've only tried a couple times with heat at all
Any recommendations for head builds?
unkempt pagoda
stifling darkness is a big hit for a lot of people
you don't really need a lot of the mirror upgrades
crimson geyser
Yeah that's kinda what I was thinking too
turbid needle
Greater Reflex and the Death Defiances are what I've heard are most important.
unkempt pagoda
i personally like to go vicious + misery, and practice my dodging skills
it doesn't matter how hard they hit if they don't hit you, and you can make up for your mistakes if you don't take grim inevitability
crimson geyser
That's a good point
zinc shore
i only beat hydra once at 30
crimson geyser
I considered something similar but then doubted my ability to avoid getting hit cuz I tend to play kinda frantically lol, but I like that idea
zinc shore
making enemies tankier is not that bad if you're good
its really the resource and damage that makes the difference
crimson geyser
Tankier enemies sound like more strain on my wrists haha
crimson geyser
I mean I am generally shield lol
zinc shore
they can only take so much hits
it sucks if you're railer without good damage tho lol
railer without decent damage modifiers is
crimson geyser
I need to figure out how to usefully incorporate bullrush into my playstyle
turbid needle
Bull Rush is good if you've got Sudden Rush or Minotaur Rush.
crimson geyser
Haha well it just sounds more interesting
turbid needle
Preferably both.
crimson geyser
Which are those? I got the one where it did +400% against shields one time and tried to make use of that
Went alright but ultimately threw me off an left me vulnerable too much
zinc shore
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/210791497476472833/597911546055753758/unknown.png I run 25 heat rn with this
turbid needle
Sudden is faster charge but no knockback, Minotaur is a power shot for +200% damage.
zinc shore
why is poison this STRONG
plucky oxide
If I play with heat it's usually with more mobs. I love trying to swim through the chaos of Than fights, especially with AOE builds.
zinc shore
turbid needle
Epic Wine-God's Stupor + literally any other Status Curse = Fast bosses.
zinc shore
Epic Wine-Gpd
turbid needle
Mean.
plucky oxide
Big fan of Dio Ares combo. Certain weapons make great use out of poison+curse.
turbid needle
Rail does work with poison.
zinc shore
everything melts.
turbid needle
Best way to apply a lot of DoT in a short amount of time.
zinc shore
I feel like Doom on your special is also nutty as hell
crimson geyser
Yeah more mobs sounds cool/versatile
turbid needle
With Bombard I like anything that is a big damage up. Artemis, Aphrodite, and Poseidon are my go-tos.
zinc shore
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/210791497476472833/597913295298756628/unknown.png I have no idea what I want here
Infinite ammo is super safe
turbid needle
Explosive Fire.
zinc shore
it works on any other hammer and every build
turbid needle
Actually, Infinity Chamber is mutually exclusive with Spread Fire.
zinc shore
oh right the aoe stacks poison right
turbid needle
Explosive Fire is the work-all, and it's what I'd use.
zinc shore
pretty sure the explosion procs poison
plucky oxide
Like, is that the highest number in the game? No, there does not seem to be a damage cap
I guess you could call Than's 9999! a damage cap?
rugged apex
imo the ideal 25 heat pact is max shared misery, 1x death insurance, 1x vicious torment
zinc shore
more enemies actually sounds good
in general
I dont have that unlocked
sadly
25 heat hydra done
crimson geyser
Noice
turbid needle
Actually, Than can break 9999 damage.
I've had enemies hit with Common Sweet Surrender (+10% damage to Weak enemies) and they took 10,999 from Death Sentence.
grand patrol
he just likes the number 9 i guess
trim ingot
Hmm hypothetical max damage 🤔
turbid needle
Probably involving a crit high level Tipsy Shot on a Weak enemy inside Festive Fog.
turbid needle
Well, technically any armored blow maxes out at the remaining armor health, even from full.
trim ingot
yeah but so does health
turbid needle
No, you can kill stuff with an overblown attack and it will read out the max damage.
trim ingot
unless the displayed number is capped too
turbid needle
Like shooting an unarmored Numbskull.
Yeah, the displayed damage number for armored enemies caps at their remaining armor.
Which is how you get crit Heavy Slugs that only deal 6 damage.
trim ingot
then yeah i guess a tipsy can get you the highest number
make that cast level 13
add a chaos +cast damage boon
add urge to kill and battle rage on that
plucky oxide
Armor used to not cap off your damage, so Artemis' crit multiplier for armor used to nuke health.
turbid needle
Oh, wow. Yeah, I can see why they put the gate in, then.
plucky oxide
Slow and steady damage feels a TON more fun to use after changes to additive/multiplicative, and the Burst build meta evened out a lot ever since.
pulsar eagle
Does anyone have any general advice for my first 60 heat run?
unkempt pagoda
athena dash
stable oyster
shield
plucky oxide
Yessss. I hit 250 clears.
82% clear rate! Most of my runs that failed on this patch were with rail. Had one on sword and another loss on bow too.
Thats ~100 clears or so with Elysium in the game. I thought for sure I'd tire of this game eventually, but the constant updates do a lot to keep the experience fresh.
Surprisingly enough, my fastest clear times when Asphodel was the last biome weren't much faster. The game has, at least in my eyes, transitioned nicely into three biomes. I can't wait to see how the fourth shakes things up 👀
zinc shore
ok now do it with 100 heat
plucky oxide
I wanna do 120, but I wanna do it once on every weapon when the game's out and then never touch it again. Heat to me isn't really fun when I am still prone to messing up in base heat, and I like viability in a lot of builds instead of just some extremely optimal rng.
There isn't really an 'average heat' across runs displayed as a stat either, just a best. And who knows, maybe by the time the game comes out whipped frenzy will actually feel like a viable option. I'm still having plenty of fun with base-heat, too. So why frustrate myself when I know I'm just going to use Tenebrious Veil and rng-grind the heck out of a good seed.
turbid needle
Way to make me feel SUPER inadequate, dang. I'm pushing 300 attempts but not even at 100 clears yet.
plucky oxide
Aw, comparison is the thief of joy, man! As long as you're having fun and taking pride in your accomplishments/growth, that's all that matters. Attempts can pile up really quickly though, mostly because the time measurements to competing a run vs dying are so drastically different. Helps that I only rarely put heat on as well :V
wheat elbow
9999 is not the damage cap.
plucky oxide
Yeah Privleged status changes it as well, no wait lol totally doesn't. It was deffo Aphro weakness global damage buff
wheat elbow
If Thanatos instakills an enemy with his abilities while there are certain damage increasing debuffs on the enemy, the damage of his ability increases into the penta digits.
I don't think privileged status affects that though.
Aphrodites boon that makes weakened enemies take 10-25% more damage worked for me.
plucky oxide
It was more me pointing out that 500 definitely wasn't the cap by providing example of a number higher
wheat elbow
Artemis' Marked makes enemies able to be critted by traps, so I'd wager that works too
plucky oxide
Also, nice call on the feedback for slow walking, DeGrand. It's something that's bothered me for a long time.
Even being able to dash out of it would be fantastic.
wheat elbow
Yes, it can be quite obnoxious
pastel jolt
@turbid needle wait, what's this about than giving enemies damage resist?
turbid needle
When Than marks enemies with his single tarte attack- their health bar turn purple, i have noticed that afterwards they take a lot more punishment to take down.
Or was just that my imagination?
lost rose
I'm pretty sure the purple is just an indication that they've been marked for extermination - he targets them, and then after a delay, they die
if you kill them during that delay, you get to steal the kill
turbid needle
Yes. And during that period they seem to take more punishment
I mean, if you are saying that its just a indicator and there is nothing more to it, fair enough.
pastel jolt
yeah, ven's right - they don't actually take less damage or anything
stable oyster
Most of the time its because the purple bar covers up their armor
turbid needle
ok, fair enough. my bad then
turbid needle
@pastel jolt When you get chaos boon which upgrades your special attack by certain %, does it also improve its aftereffects? like ares, zeus or any other damage witch is applied by special
pastel jolt
as far as i know, it doesn't increase stuff like ares/zeus effects, just the damage when you actually hit
plucky oxide
It applies the same way that any boons with a damage +X% does, but no, it doesn't effect the damage of on-hit effects. Global damage buffs do, however. So if there's a flat increase of +50% damage from, say, Privileged Status, that will effect things like sick and curse.
turbid needle
q.q
wheat elbow
Depends on the weapon for me.
Adamant Rail just ends in disaster for me
Sword and shield are fine.
Bow probably is fine too, I just don't like using the weapon.
Screw the spear.
twilit hornet
I kinda feel like the Artemis boon is overly valuable. Maybe adding some baseline crit to the mirror would be a good thing so that Artemis Boons don't feel required.
wheat elbow
I never feel like Artemis boons are required.
I double down and say that crit in general should not be required ever
plucky oxide
Artemis is the most balanced she's been, I think she's good where she's at.
Adding baseline crit, in my eyes, would devalue Artemis' unique traits.
trim ingot
some hammer upgrades have crit so it's not even artemis exclusive
wheat elbow
Sword and spear, yes
plucky oxide
Yeah! I'd be happy to see those go too. But that's still a choice to spec into, and not some global variable that effects every run. That, and those hammer upgrades used to be guaranteed crit too, which completely overrode the choice of Artemis. The fact that these choices now compound together on a run by run basis means that each choice has flavor that isn't destructive to one another's success. While adding a base crit would help all builds, it removes the concept of choosing to spec into crit, or the literal god of crit.
Also. Shield has knockback on it, but I don't think all weapons need base knockback either. That's what makes Poseidon unique, giving knockback to weapons. Exclusivity has nothing to do with it in my eyes, it's the choice the player has to make on whether or not to invest in these features on a run by run basis.
Mirrors are static investments. The baseline progression across all runs.
plucky oxide
But in base heat there is no limit to darkness. There is an order of priority, yes, but baseline means the player can have all of these options on their plate.
trim ingot
what's mirror priority for heat runs
trim ingot
dash probably always a must
plucky oxide
It adds in a lot of that variability and choice to a part of the game that is super static, and I really appreciate it
pastel jolt
dashes and death defies, privileged status, then health if you're not running super-high damage i guess
once enemy damage goes above a certain point it feels like getting more health isn't going to help you that much
plucky oxide
I gotta say, I love PS. It did such a good job at changing how I think about status effects, as well as offering a huge buff to things like curse and poison damage.
pastel jolt
but then again i haven't done heat runs at all since elysium dropped, so bring your salt shaker for that one
oh, totally
my favourite dashes when accounting for PS are aphrodite's and dio's
plucky oxide
One of my favorite upgrades. Something that keeps me really conscious about what I'm choosing and why.
I love the random aoe's around you in dio's dash! It adds so much personality to the move.
wheat elbow
It is sadly the weakest poison effect in his reportoire
pastel jolt
yeah but it counts for privileged status
plucky oxide
Yeah, but for proc'cing PS on non-poison builds it's amazingly viable
pastel jolt
that
plucky oxide
^
pastel jolt
it's on your dash and since you're always dashing anyway, you don't need to worry as much about stacking the effects up
finite grail
Imo Aphrodite dash is better for stacking privilege
rugged apex
imo I prefer athena dash with exposed but that's two boons instead of one so aphrodite's usually wins out
pastel jolt
aphrodite dash radius: 200
dionysus dash radius: 180
what units is that in? iunno. deal with it.
turbid needle
I can share my setup, have been regularly getting to the last boss and dying to last 25% hp
120heat run
Btw hello there pause
@plucky oxide *
plucky oxide
Hiya
Dio's dash has a little variability in where it lands, and may actually hit more space, but Aphro feels reliable, as the center origin of the radius is around Zag
turbid needle
rugged apex
dio's dash is semi-random, so it can hit in a larger area than aphro's
but this is often as much of a downside as an upside
plucky oxide
Mhm mhm
turbid needle
Here is what im running. Keepsakes: Aeris(1st level)>Purse(2nd level)>Collar(3rd level)
plucky oxide
Then there's the duration. Overall, Aphro feels solid for single target, few dashes, and Dio seems great for multiple targets, spammy dashes.
Both incredibly viable amongst the rest of the options, though I'm unsure if there's a single bad dash option right now.
Even the flat damage and radius of Poseidon's is great on base heat
turbid needle
I think zeus dash is superior, also has more valuable upgrades, if you are going for full-dash build. Extra chance for lightning strikes+bigger strike radius.
rugged apex
imo zeus dash is the strongest for single-target damage/effects
trim ingot
i haven't played with zeus much...
rugged apex
especially if hermes decides to help out
trim ingot
i should go for a full out zeus build sometime
turbid needle
I suggest trying out regular Athena dash- you will do wonders by being able to block incoming damage with it, especially if you get +1/2/3 dahses
pastel jolt
zeus builds are stupid fun
turbid needle
@trim ingot deff do it- with bow or shield, or rail
anything that can proc lightning attack many times in rown
it kinda tunes down for boss fights, since there isnt as much things to hit at same time
trim ingot
i still need a spear clear
turbid needle
But from my experience, zeus rage anhilliates hydra
pastel jolt
spear is an excellent choice for a zeus run
splitting bolt is ridiculous amounts of fun
turbid needle
@pastel jolt care to elaborate? Why is spear good for zeus?
pastel jolt
rapid attack speed
zeus does best on weapons that attack quickly, because that way you can pump more lightning out
plucky oxide
Out of all the builds that you can do Dash builds for, Zeus is definitely strongest, yeah.
pastel jolt
it also makes for a greater damage boost on those weapons because percentage boosts won't amp them up as much as they would for, say, the sword or the bow
turbid needle
Yeah- shield special, rapid fire hammer upgrade for bow or rapid fire upgrade for adamant rail seems to be faster
finite grail
the lightning on attack effect with gun 👌
pastel jolt
then zeus is also good on those.
i just named spear and rail becase they're high-speed by default, as opposed to needing a hammer for them, and also i hate the shield with a fiery passion
plucky oxide
Special Bow/Shield Zeus
Attack Spear/Rail Zeus
Dash Zeus (Rail can double its output)
finite grail
shield bash is pretty quick too
pastel jolt
i must admit i've tried zeus special a couple times and i've never been that impressed with it
trim ingot
does shield bash and double nova and the like generate lightning twice?
rugged apex
(unrelatedly, I think my least-favorite boon in the game is Bad Influence - for much the same reasons I dislike poseidon's knockback boons; it's totally ineffective against bosses, but doesn't have cool visuals to make up for it)
plucky oxide
Try Zeus on shield ricochet! It's amazingly viable, especially if you get return damage hammer
pastel jolt
kiiiiiinda?
it depends which lightning effect you mean
double strike and high voltage only affect lightning bolts, which would be his dash, special, and wrath
plucky oxide
Only! That's the majority of your kit!
finite grail
finally got the return effect for shield the other day because people were raving about it and i wasn't aware the return damage scaled with special which turned out amazing
pastel jolt
can people stop trying to 'gotcha' me while i'm still typing
trim ingot
explosions everywhere
pastel jolt
as i was going to say, to answer your question @trim ingot , double strike/high voltage would affect the shield special but not the shield attack (which i assume is what you mean by 'bash'?)
trim ingot
i meant like, the hammer upgrades that make you hit twice
plucky oxide
If you think I'm trying to gotcha you I apologize! Peace y'all have a good day
rugged apex
iirc they don't but I admit I don't remember that run well enough
pastel jolt
the attack hits twice so i would assume it spawns lightning twice
rugged apex
so I'll go and test that
pastel jolt
i don't know if double nova would do it
but, again, it's two hits so i'd assume two strikes
rugged apex
you know... what if poseidon had some duo boon that pulled hit enemies towards you instead
(can you wallslam with zagreus's own face)
trim ingot
seems potentially dangerous
but i do want to pull in those annoying hydra heads that like to hover over the lava
headbutt....
rugged apex
how hard is zagreus's head anyway
pastel jolt
i would wallslam thanatos with my own face if you get my meaning 
trim ingot
9999
pastel jolt
listen the joke was there i had to seize my moment
trim ingot
pulling in is just blade rifts that suck
pastel jolt
uh, @wheat elbow , "ridiculous" would work just as well in that sentence, i'm jsut sayin
rugged apex
(aphro+poseidon duo. weaken enemies. pull weakened enemies into zag.)
trim ingot
i would like some kinda decoy boon
wheat elbow
Poseidon is the only god with only one duo boon
Athena and Dionysus the only ones with just two
so poseidon will get two duoboons with those two
rugged apex
tbh I don't care which gods have duo boons already because I think every god should have one with every other god(though this is kinda impractical but w/e)
trim ingot
the full transistor
wheat elbow
Considering that so far, we have 7 main olympians, that would take a while.
I think that taking it step by step is a good call, so getting to the point where every god has 3 duo boons with someone is a good start.
pastel jolt
really lets you rip and tear through enemies huh
twilit hornet
I still haven't been able to clear with the spear yet but I think a Doom build with spear might do the job
I dont know why but spear feels so much worse to me than any of the other weapons
wheat elbow
Because it is the worst weapon in the game by far.
The special is absolutely terrible and the attack/special simply don't work together nicely at all.
wheat elbow
Regular spear attack and charged attack are both very good, but they are hard to combo together with dash attacks and in heated runs, they both lose out on huge amounts of value.
Add to that that most hammer upgrades are mediocre and you have yourself a low tier weapon.
wheat elbow
@pastel jolt I have one very fast clear time from that one day at the start of the current update
twilit hornet
Gotta how are you buliding your spear
wheat elbow
when the spear was actually OP.
twilit hornet
To me the problem is how immobile spear is
pastel jolt
zeus attack or else a spin build
pastel jolt
athena tends to work real nice on spin builds
twilit hornet
i was building Artemis on Spear
which gets me to the end but just could beat the last duo boss encounter
pastel jolt
perhaps less so now that she's not the top damage boost any more but the deflect on aoe is nice if you're worried about projectiles
twilit hornet
cos spear special hard to catch bull with
rather i should say, catching the bull is fine its just that he catches you with a special centric build
i think with the spear maybe if they increased range on the special, that might help those builds some
I think I'm going to try a spin build.
wheat elbow
The spear just feels clunky.
Charge attacks are slow and clunky by definition, charge attacks that force you to be stuck in place even more.
And that is ignoring that regular attacks and the special also force you to be stuck.,
Doesn'tcatching your spear back upon recalling also root you in place for a moment? Feels terrible.
wheat elbow
Everything the spear can do the sword can do just as well if not better minus the range
rugged apex
it's not as fast as the rail or as hard-hitting as the sword
wheat elbow
But the spear special is bad enough for the sword not having a ranged option to not matter.
The spear can hit very hard and the regular attacks are fast enough AND can hitstun
so not all about the spear is bad.
rugged apex
it also hits in a line which makes it less effective against groups, at least unless you spin at em
wheat elbow
Which becomes more of an factor in heated runs.
Same goes for the overalkl immobility
trim ingot
if the special had some kind of pinning ability it could be useful
wheat elbow
and the slow nature of all attacks.
One big advantage the spear has that you can get a huge chunk of damage in on enemies who are just about to respawn with a fully charged free spear attack
and that is another big advantage taken away by heated runs.
Blue shields just negate that
twilit hornet
Whats the most fun build on any weapon you've used so far
i had a pretty fun run using the Rail triple bomb special with the Dionysus Wine Fog on Cast
It hit so hard
The Wine Fog hits decently hard and pretty much roots everything and the triple bomb was hitting in the mid 500s for crits per bomb
turbid needle
q.q just cleared a infernal trowe, went to the next room while coins were on the ground, they werent auto picked up before i left- 250coins lost
finite grail
dang, chaos boon +53% attack, artemis +43% attack and 15% crit, twin shot, AND perfect shot on bow
it annihilates
finite grail
It gets easier as you go along and pick up more darkness
turbid needle
You just have to learn the hit-and-run pattern. Dash-attack-dash-attack. Dash gives you invincibility frames, moreso with Athena upgrade. When you get the spacing down, you can start to weave more attacks in. Been today failed 3 120heat runs at the last boss battle. Keep trying and you will get better
hollow minnow
Hey, is it just me, or do LESS Death Defiances show up in the shops on 120 Heat???? Or am I just having consistent bad luck with it? I' can get good at getting enough money, but they never show up!! It's REALLY frustrating! amd with Max Stifling Darkness you only get to keep 2 😭 😭 💔 💔
Good luck with the Hydra!!! I believe in you!!!!!!!
twilit hornet
I think two things make the spear fundamentally feel hard to use.
- The regular attack needs to be aimed precisely. The line of attack is super thin and is easy to miss with.
- The spin attack getting interrupted makes using it pretty difficult.
I get the idea behind it. Its a really big hard hitting AOE. But this build has almost no mobility with so much of the damage tied up in the spin attack.
Maybe taking damage during spin attack charge should push the charge back so it does less damage instead of totally cancelling it
By the time you get to later stages, if you've invested in the spin attack, then getting reduced charge time from the hammer is 100% necessary or else you wont get any spins off.
Aside from spinning on spawns
turbid needle
Try to get one of rage boons- zeus, artemis, ares. Keep the rage building up and use it to burst down 2 of 6 heads at stage 3. Never stand for too long under one of the heads- the slam attack can and will kill you.
@hollow minnow For me they spawn quite often, have had up to 7 defiances
What setup on heat and darkness are you using in your run?
To be honest, for me it seems that boons spawn a lot less. Usually key>darkness>heat>key>fruit>store>key>boon
trim ingot
it varies
on some runs you can get only a few boons (which is viable in its own right, you can use tons of poms to make a boon super buff)
on other runs you get a whole page of them
turbid needle
I would disagree. With the addition of heat, i have had less and less booms in runs. 2 heat per floor ruins a run in many cases. Now I got to asphodel, 1 boon, 3 poms and rest was heat, keys, coins, health
Id be good if im multi choice rooms it would give you a choice- key or boon, but the choice usually is key vs darkness
trim ingot
the choices are always all resources or all powerups on purpose
turbid needle
what is the purpose?
seems it makes the choice less meaningful. I want to be able to decide if i want a resource run, so i can upgrade my mirror or get extra keys for infernal troves, or go for some boons to make my run longer, to possibly get more keys and more darkness.
Its as if game makes the choice for you
@trim ingot by the way- can you give source where is it stated that this is on purpose? It seems that i have missed it in patch notes
trim ingot
it's literally always been like that from the start
as for the purpose i would guess pacing
it's really a no-brainer to choose a boon over darkness, not an meaningful choice by far
turbid needle
@trim ingot id disagree. when I was farming for darkness, id take darkness over the less wanted boons. And in tenebrous veil runs or high heat runs, where you need that pom of power upgrade on that one strong boon, you wouldnt take any other boons, unless you really needed to.
So i would disagree by a big margin that its not a meaningful choice
trim ingot
i've only said that ALL the permanent resources are separated from ALL the powerups
turbid needle
In asphodel there are some cases, since there are sometimes up to 4 room connected, but 1st floor and Elysium is lacking in this
Yes, and i disagree that that should be the case
Takes away from the descision making
hollow minnow
@twilit hornet!! My thoughts EXACTLY!! The spear's attack is way to narrow!
placid silo
I just want to say that Dionysus attack boon with Exagryph is bloody op
turbid needle
It's beautiful. Not OP, but definitely very very strong.
30% Swift Strike on Epic (8) Blight Strike and Infinity Chamber. This should go quickly.
trim ingot
now add low tolerance
turbid needle
I would have, if the game had ever friggin' given it to me.
Eventually got Heartbreak Flourish AND Passion Dash, but nooo.
twilit hornet
So the Hammer Upgrade for the Spear that takes away spin attack for multi attack... am I missing something or is this a massive downgrade?
unkempt pagoda
works well with dio and zeus
twilit hornet
I get that... but its not that much better than the spamming the regular attack
i admit i havent tried it with Zeus
feels incredibly niche to be an "upgrade"
I'll have to give it a try with Zeus
twilit hornet
So I just tried the upgrade with zeus and 20% speed boost to attack and its actually pretty good
30% speed boost
native ether
The only real reason to take Piercing Fire atm is shield enemies, as a frequent rail player.
It makes Theseus and Greatshields much easier to fight, but doing that severely limits how much damage you can do with pretty much any other rail upgrade.
I think personally, I'd love to see Piercing Fire buffed in some way, and see Shield enemy blocking nerfed in some way so that I feel less like I'm making a choice that "feels like I'm crippling myself, but necessary due to how oppressive a particular enemy type is"
turbid needle
Posted in feedback about that earlier today.
I think +50% damage flatly is what it needs. Might be much with Heavy Slug, though.
twilit hornet
I'm really conflicted with spear
I like spin attack
but everything else feels off
the multi attack upgrade that takes away spin attack doesnt really fill that fun
feels like you are standing in place alot
and it has no synergy with any other boon besides Zeus and Dionysus... but to be honest after a run Zeus and having already tried Dionysus. It doesn't feel as powerful as other upgrades.
With Dionysus, getting poison stacks is not hard and the damage difference you get getting them up fast is pretty small
and for Zeus, the damage is "ok" when enemies cluster but feels pretty mediocore compared to going spin build.
hollow minnow
ooooooo man!! I just had the Epic Heartbreak Flourish with 144 damage on it, on 120 heat!!! IT WAS SO COOL AND USEFUL! But I hadn't any Centaur Hearts at all and I died the moment I reached the Fury room.....nooooo!!!!!
hollow minnow
I just had three terrible runs in a row!! 💔 💔 Well, I actually had consistently excellent boons, which were all awesome, but I just died sooo early!! D: I got all the way to Elysium on 120 just a little bit ago--dying on only the second chamber there, but still!!!--and now I'm fighting to get back there, almost unable to deduce how I managed it!!!!
twilit hornet
lol
I finally got a clear on the spear. For me having the Athena Wrath was pretty key
last weapon I had without a full clear
it took 53 minutes
😒
turbid needle
My 60 Heat clear took over 30.
twilit hornet
So maybe this is a bug?
hm
I cant upload pics i guess
I was using Adamant Rail on Hydra and getting 3 different crit totals for my special
teal helm
@turbid needle re: the Piercing effect on Rail w/o knockback: it's actually super effective paired with a boon that grants a status effect on Attack
twilit hornet
only happened there
wheat elbow
twilit hornet
nice
wheat elbow
I tried so hard over the course of this week because I really wanted to get that achievement before the next update hits in less than 4 weeks.
turbid needle
I got 60, I don't think I'm messing with 120.
wheat elbow
A wise choice.
turbid needle
I kept dying halfway through Elysium on 60, tacking on extra damage and enemy Death Defiance and no healing...
Ugh.
wheat elbow
Mingled with no healing as well
was terrible and terrifying
On another note
Seeing Ares' Blade Rifts tick for 200 damage
gives me life
wheat elbow
The answer to those questions is in #self-promotion , check it out.
hollow minnow
120 heat in 18 minutes?!!?!??! I'm so jealous!!!!!!!! Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just like you I am trying super hard every day before the update!!!! I've only managed to get to Elysium ONCE....I hope I can do it before the update!!!!!😖
😖 😖 😖
turbid needle
That's the best shield clear time, not the clear time with 120 Heat.
hollow minnow
the picture says 120 Heat....
rotund knot
i only went to elysium twice @hollow minnow and i don't even have heat
so i feel you
fluid moat
so the best time is completely seperate from the best heat run achieved; it doesn't track them as a pair. So the runner finished both a 120 run, and then a different run their best clear is 18:08
they could be the same run, but ehhhh
hollow minnow
oooh that is how is worked I see 😛
I FINALLYYYYY got 4 DD's and faced the Hydra on 120!!! Buuuut I didn't go in with enough health and died 😭 I wonder why they've hardly appeared over the last two days for me--several runs--and today have appeared at least once, reliably?! 120 heat would be much easier if the DD's appeared in shops more! Just once instead of hardly ever!
native ether
On 60 Heat I swear I only died at Theseus
But I always lost 2 Death Defiances in the room right before him because it always seems to contain... Elite Greatshield Spam
Like every run I've done at 60 heat
The last encounter of Elysium is just a bunch of Elite Greatshields
I don't know if it's my luck or coded but ugh it's very annoying.
pulsar eagle
Does anyone have advice on what to fish for in builds of the Bow? Or just playing Bow in general?
I feel like if I don't get Quick Draw I just spam Specials lol
turbid needle
Twin Shot and Hunter Dash is 4x damage if you do it right.
Though, that is with Epic Hunter Dash.
wheat elbow
If you go for a true no hit run, 120 heat should be doable in 20 minutes
but that takes a lot of careful play and skill.
turbid needle
And an early Epic Greatest Reflex.
wheat elbow
I simply could never ever dream to make it happen just by virtue of the fact that the Hydra and Spear Heroes exist.
turbid needle
I feel as though making the Bone Hydra's regular volley travel a little faster would make it easier to dodge.
wheat elbow
No
It would not.
The Hydra actually does have two volley attacks. The regular slow one and one that is very fast.
turbid needle
I know.
wheat elbow
I get hit by the latter consistently, especially on frenzy.
turbid needle
Yeah, that's why I don't think that needs to be any faster.
wheat elbow
Not only because the projectiles fly faster but also because he has far less of a tell before using it
turbid needle
Yes, I understand all this.
I just want the projectile speed of his five-shot volley to go up a little.
wheat elbow
@native ether Oh yeah, I forgot. Consider going for 75 heat runs. The huge advantage you get from going for that threshold is that you make challenge rooms in Elysium available. They are actually very doable at that stage of the game because they will still only contain Tartarus-Enemies.
They are annoying but they die easy, especially with you having two floors worth of boons under your belt. And even if you fail, fighting Tartarus enemies beats having to face the Elysium Line-up by far.
(same for Asphodel of course)
turbid needle
Unless you're dealing with Shared Misery Brimstones.
wheat elbow
I was doing it with the shield, so that wasn't a problem.
Challenge Room + Shield = Running Circles and throwing shields
Works every time.
Just never stop moving in circles and you won't ever get hit.
vale sphinx
🎶 Flying - in circles - just trying - to land 🎶
proud storm
^ (thanatos voice) but iiiiiiii wooooooon't save yooooooouuuu
grand patrol
genuinely if thanny got some of that redstyle boundary confidence hed be a lot better off
jade shoal
My god!
Just started playing this game today and boy am I in love
Didn't think i'd love a rogue like game as much as I liked enter the gungeon
But damn son! This is way above it
crimson geyser
somehow got part way through elysium with maxed out ....whatever the heat contract is that makes it so you can't recover any life lol. and then plus however many extra damage heats i needed to get to 25 heat. i think that's probably not a great heat build but surprised i didn't die a lot earlier
asterius killed me, pretty much instantly tho lol
wheat elbow
Yeah, that sounds like a thing he would do.
crimson geyser
man i suck with anything that's not the shield
though bow with poison on special is surprisingly effective close range 🤷
wheat elbow
I posted the upload of my accomplished 120 heat run in #self-promotion
Give it a watch if you like to see it.
placid silo
how does one complete a 120 heat run?
turbid needle
A great deal of patience, skill, and luck.
wheat elbow
Double down on the patience requirement.
Also, a shield and doom effects tend to be helpful.
Meanwhile, I lost an amazing Adamant Rail run because of stupid bloody Spear Heroes
Went into the room with 2 DDs and half health
went out being beaten half to death
turbid needle
You know, Longspears have always given me more trouble than Greatshields.
Greatshields can be annoying if you get cornered, but Longspears are annoying everywhere.
wheat elbow
@pseudo ocean There are a couple aspects about your latest feedback post that I disagree with. Allow to go through them point by point.
- Power Poms not only give 1 point of extra damage per tick. It depends on the ability you are using it on. The first pom I put into attack or special tends to give 2 extra damage for me, which is a huge damage increase overall.
- Not increasing weapon damage is a good thing in many cases. The deciding factor here being the base damage, not the attack rate.
Taking the railas an example, it only has 10 damage. A simple 100% damage increase would increase the damage you deal with a simple attack to 20. Instead of a damage increase, having Dionysus Poison effect deal 4 damage per tick (common rarity) means that you increased that single instance of damage by 32, equalling a 320% damage increase for that attack. Being able to stack that up high fast is a nice side benefit.
And that ignores the many other interesting aspects about the poison effetcs (like being a debuff for privileged status right off the bat)
The only poison effect that is actually weak is the dash one
and even that one makes up for it by applying two stacks at once
I just checked, I have a run based around Sick attack on the shield, 75 heat run
Finished the final boss in 1 Minutes 25 seconds. Poison is absolutely fine. Even stronger than the average I'd say.
ALSO, not impacting weapon damage directly is even less of a problem since they made all damage modifiers additive anyway.
green birch
@wheat elbow , while I am choosing to trust you had good intentions, by coming to another channel and breaking down "point by point" why you dislike someone's feedback, it comes off more as trying to pressure the the other person into deleting their feedback because you thought it was bad. Feedback ultimately is meant for the developers, not the players, so regardless of how we feel about it, it's not up to us the players to decide if someone's feedback is valid or not. Remember that if you disagree with someone's feedback, you can always give it a 👎 or leave other feedback speaking to the contrary.
wheat elbow
I did do the emoji disagreement. I also made an honest to god effort in choosing my wording in a way that is neither offensive nor in any way showing an implication that I want him to remove his feedback.
Just pointed out some quirks about poison that he did not seem to be aware off when he made that post.
Also, I thought that making feedback based on other peoples feedback wasn't a thing to do either, so I didn't.
It's cool though. I won't do it again.
green birch
Thank you.
While it may not be "polite" to @ people within the feedback channel, we've never prevented people from leaving feedback that was clearly contrary or in response to other feedback, so feel free to do so yourself.
pseudo ocean
I modified the feedback a bit to be more brief and concise without attempting to theorycraft.
native ether
Poison's damage is pretty respectable, but it's not fast, and it gimps your weapon's ability to get a base dmg increase from your boons.
It's great if you have something like Butterfly cause it works on Poison dmg afaik
But it's good, but slow, and with faster alternatives I'd honestly rather have something else in Elysium or beyond. I only seriously consider Poison atm when running Butterfly or running Heat with Death Insurance.
wheat elbow
It depends on the weapon. For many weapons/attacks, base damage increases are weak.
Add to that that the way damage increases are additive, you can't even bank on said increases working in your favor.
Say you have Athena increasing your damage by 50% and Priv Status increasing it by another 50%
Your attack dealing 100 damage would just deal 200 damage now.
native ether
I'd still be inclined to take a base damage increase on something even like the Rail, because it comes with a debuff like Weak or Crits, or even Knockback.
wheat elbow
With Poison, the priv status effect would affect both your weapons base damage as well as the damage inflicted by poison.
Poison also has a debuff, with only one boon being invested.
native ether
Poison is a debuff but it's just the debuff, and that's why it's not as valuable for me.
wheat elbow
Dionysus, Aphrodite and Ares are the only gods to give you a debuff for one boon. Everyone else needs two
native ether
Aphrodite gives me weak + damage, Artemis gives me 20% crit chance and damage increase.
trim ingot
that makes him a good support boon to round out a build not nessesarily a primary build based around poison
wheat elbow
Poison Effects have been the star of my runs more times than I was willing to count.
The damage numbers simply aren't as impressive to look at like they are with crits and high ticking doom procs.
I see poison tick for 50 to 100+ damage regularly, and it does that every half second.
native ether
Ares and Dio are different cause they're just the debuffs. Ares I find respectable on something slow with an already high base damage. Dio I find respectable if I'm running Butterfly or Death Insurance and that's about it unfortunately. It's damage is too slow to really kick in for me and it wears off very fast. It's not a "throw it out and forget" kinda effect, like a Mark or Doom. It's something I consistently have to keep upticking to get value out of. Not to mention it's very difficult to keep the stacks applied to an enemy without a very fast weapon (Adamant Rail or bust lol)
If I'm building around Poison, sure it's not bad. But I fully expect it to drop off in the 4th biome if enemy health values increase even more, cause to me it really feels like it starts to drop off esp at Theseus.
trim ingot
with the exception of bow i think all weapons have a decently fast attack
wheat elbow
Poison is a "throw it out and forget" kind of effect that you can throw out 5 times instead of just once before it becomes redundant.
The speed of the weapon doesn't matter
trim ingot
with hammers to make them even faster
wheat elbow
All that matters is how one application of sick modifies your damage compared to others.
The lower the base damage the better poison is compared to almost everything else. Speed only matters if you attack so often that you reach the 5 stacks cap consistently
which you shouldn't be doing unless you are playing specific spear, bow or rail runs.
trim ingot
okay disagree with that point there
"achieving max dps" and "not wasting potential damage" is similar but different things
wheat elbow
Well yes and no.
Doom on the Attack is very high damage. But almost every weapoin in the game would lead to every second and/or third attack not dealing the damage for you.
With Doom Attack at common rank dealing 50 damage, that reduces the effective doom damage to around 17 per attack unless you really just attack and forget
which is amazing for room clear but bad for bosses.
Compare that with common rank Dionysus which gives you 4*8 = 32 damage per attack
while also not punishing you for spamming it as long as you remain at/under five stacks.
You achieve higher DPS while also not wasting potencial damage.
trim ingot
consistently remaining under five stacks IS wasted potential damage tho
wheat elbow
It is not because one stack still equals 32 damage
Most base damage increasing attack boons give you 100% extra damage at epic rank
trim ingot
but the 32 damage takes 8 seconds to apply
native ether
Over a period of 6-8 seconds though
trim ingot
8 seconds is a very long time to wipe out a normal enemy
trim ingot
okay 4
native ether
Still a long time considering most enemies die in under that time span for me, with the exception of Elites
trim ingot
still a long time to dispatch a single exalted or whatever
rugged apex
poison's biggest weakness is that each stack is like, independent
wheat elbow
But you build and play your run not for the times when the game is easy but for the times it is hard
rugged apex
and falls off independently
wheat elbow
and that, usually, means when you fight bosses.
Hell, for most people, that means "when you fight the last boss"
native ether
I don't think Poison is bad, but I do think it doesn't scale well and is gonna really take a drop in the 4th biome assuming enemy health skyrockets again
rugged apex
I'm admittedly not sure if hitting something at 5 stacks actually refreshes the poison or not
wheat elbow
Also, I actually consider it a blessing that each stack is it's individual debuff.
That makes ongoing attacks not going to waste
native ether
Like it took a pretty big drop in Elysium until its numbers got buffed (and Elysium health went down) because it just wasn't effective.
rugged apex
imo single debuff+refresh duration when hit would help it a lot
wheat elbow
To go back to my earlier example
rugged apex
because I don't think hitting something at 5 stacks actually does anything right now?
wheat elbow
For most weapons, a common Dionysus Attack is better than an epic Poseidon/Aphrodite/Athena counterpart
Say you use the shield, the regular attack deals 25 damage. 100% on that is 25% extra damage that will NOT scale with anything else
while the lowest rank of Dionysus Attack will give you 32 damage that WILL scale with other damage increases like priv status
The math on poison checks out, the damage is very strong overall. If anything, relaying the impressiveness of said damage to players seems to be the only thing that is lacking.
Which is easy to understand. Most people want to be there for the one big hit, seeing huge tripple to quaddra digit crits get's the blood pumping. But there is a lot of satisfaction to see a lot of small to big numbers piling up on the enemy while seeing him melt away.
trim ingot
the feedback shaheen gave was talking about how long it took to fight the boss
rugged apex
oh, I don't mean to say it's ineffective - I mean how it works isn't ideal, gamewise
wheat elbow
I recognize that. I checked back one of my recent runs where I took Dionysus Attack on the shield to the final boss.
Fight was over in 1 Minute 15 Seconds.
trim ingot
maybe you should explain why poison works so well for you but not for them and what you're doing differently
wheat elbow
I did explain why it works so well, the math of the game simply works in it's favor overall.
rugged apex
poison is basically the only boon that gains from poms, consistently
wheat elbow
I am not doing anything differently, I just go in, punch enemies hard, look out for Aphrodite and/or other sources to get prev status kicking
and then good times ensure.
rugged apex
it never gets to a point where the pom is useless for it
wheat elbow
The first Pom on Attack/Special is the best usually though. Most of the time, you get 2 extra damage per tick. One point afterwards
but those increases are noticable
rugged apex
with priv up each pom is +7.5 per tick, or in other words an extra 15 per second
10 without priv
it's quite strong.
native ether
It's strong damage wise, but it's slow
native ether
Hence why you don't see me using it either :kappa:
native ether
Doom's advantage is that it's slow and bursty, and can be increased/re-applied
wheat elbow
And Poison is slow and consistent, but still high damage.
(both go super well with one another too, I love'em both atm)
Also, both go super well with the best goddess in the game, Aphrodite
and both have duoboons with her
native ether
artemis would like to say that she's best girl thx
wheat elbow
Really, every run with Dionysus, Aphro and/or Ares is a gold experience
She is not. Not by a long shot.
People like Artemis because she gives out easy big numbers. She is also the most inconsistent and unreliable goddess in the game.
rugged apex
(really, the thing that makes poison look bad is that it's x damage every 0.5 seconds rather than every 1 second)
(figuring out the real damage value is more math than most players will go and do)