The boon that I really like that isn't incredibly overpowered is the one that sets up your next Attack or special to do more damage after I get a kill. I feel like that really speaks into his kit design.
#h1-builds-and-combat
plucky oxide
I'm fine with his cast being insane, and I'm fine with the legendary being the thing to tip it over the edge. Same goes for Zeus' legendary. They make runs really awesome. The problem I have is when runs start feeling 'free'. Not to me, but to people who might be on their fourth or tenth run. There's been a few boons/upgrades like that over the course of this game's life. I just worry about making the god whose kit is designed around small amounts of effort resulting in massive spikes of delayed damage too much viability on his own. Shield special ares is a good example of this.
wheat elbow
Doesn't Artemis/Athena Duo Boon just flatout increase crit chance for everything you do?
plucky oxide
Yep! You can get true shot from Artemis, and a form of deflect, and then find her duo boon. Requires you to kinda run Artemis + Athena, but yeah, you can have a cast run from them if you're lucky. The interesting thing is that it's the only form of crit you can get on Arte that won't explode your boon pool.
And those two Athena boons (DR + deflect) could also just be quick reload and fully loaded, which are more cast enabling than a three stocked true cast run.
wheat elbow
Bonus points for Athena Cast being one of the stronger casts that also applies deflect.
brazen sphinx
i was spamming artemis crit builds but now i'm spamming for merciful end
it's just way too fast and high dps
wheat elbow
I am not really spamming for anything.
I see what Tartarus gives me and then build on that in subsequent floors.
I feel like I get a bit more variety out of the game that way
plucky oxide
Players will always try and get the builds they think are efficient, or at least get the gods they favor
brazen sphinx
i think high dps from merciful end is so much better than delaying out fights with range such as rail and bow
unkempt pagoda
see i try to do that
wheat elbow
I mean
plucky oxide
I personally think getting rid of the God keepsakes would help the life of the game
unkempt pagoda
but then i end up getting two boons that don't match my hammer
wheat elbow
I have reached a point where I really like all the gods and what they have to offer
unkempt pagoda
one of them being ocean's bounty
brazen sphinx
i'll take hits from risky plays with merciful end over safe and range plays from deadly reversal from now on
wheat elbow
and in most cases I feel relatively confident that I can engineer a win out of what I have, so my spectrum is quite broad in that regard
Like, back then when people were just phishing for hunting blades or did nothing but crit bow runs
I'd be bored to death by that
brazen sphinx
i haven't found effective builds from dionysus, is there any powerful builds from it?
plucky oxide
You have to take playstyle into account, degrand. Even if I am running a successful build, it might not be what a player considers fun.
unkempt pagoda
dio's dash is great for building privileged status
plucky oxide
Dio's great. Just slow, long, good damage.
unkempt pagoda
dps and extra damage if you can find another status
brazen sphinx
@unkempt pagoda what other status curse would be
pastel jolt
ughhhhhhhhh
pastel jolt
i've got ares cast and i've seen artemis TWICE now and she refuses to give me hunting blades.
brazen sphinx
oh that right
plucky oxide
Play Dio Aphro and you've got a fun time ahead of you.
wheat elbow
When I get dionysus early, I usually try to branch out into Zeus because their duo boon is ridiculous and superfun
unkempt pagoda
me hunting for athena's legendary
wheat elbow
I also like Dionysus together with Aphro and/or Ares
brazen sphinx
i haven't been a big fan of aphrodite too
wheat elbow
Aphrodite is the most solid goddess in the game by far
plucky oxide
Dio Aphro shows what a good sick run looks like
wheat elbow
Because everything she gives you is just that, very solid
pastel jolt
a third time
unkempt pagoda
and pairs nicely with other statuses
pastel jolt
and still no hunting blades
wheat elbow
Aphro Attack and Special super strong and useful because instant weak helps you survive and increase your damage because of priv status
Her Cast is insanely good and heavily underrated
(also the only cast that gives a status effect)
brazen sphinx
ahh didn't think about weakness as a previleged ingriedients
wheat elbow
Her Dash also one of the best in the game right from the start
pastel jolt
wait a minute
plucky oxide
Not underrated, just recently buffed
unkempt pagoda
^
brazen sphinx
i just thought weakness in general wasn't that appealing
pastel jolt
welp i do have the artemis prereqs as well, she jsut idn't giving the boon i want
unkempt pagoda
defensive stuff in general is great, especially since A&T are both heavy damage dealers
when a lot of the time A&T is an endurance battle, it helps a lot
wheat elbow
Also, Aphro + Dionysus together become super tanky together.
unkempt pagoda
plus i've heard tales of myrmidon + weak practically negating damage
brazen sphinx
haven't beat 120 heats since elysium was introduced
might as well try with merciful end before it gets nerfed lmao
unkempt pagoda
merciful end once turned a practically-guaranteed-fail run into a win
brazen sphinx
since it's a flat dmg i can invest on stifling darkness more
oh actually i can't do taht because i need that room change thingie
shucks
plucky oxide
I'm pretty sure you can't roll into a duo, but it does help secure your early boon pool before one of those duo rooms can rear its head
green birch
You mean a trial of the gods room aha, Terre is talking about duo boon hunting which you don’t need a trial room for
wheat elbow
They do help though!
green birch
Of course!
wheat elbow
So, to my surprise I have to say
Bone Hourglass feels surprisingly interesting
Much better than I thought.
willow karma
Heyo, just doing a normal run and found that I can't pick the first boon cos it says "foes nearby", but theres none, is that a known bug?
wheat elbow
Sounds like a bug to me because enemies in the first room tend to only appear once you take the boon I believe
willow karma
Yeah that has been the way it's worked up until now lol
placid silo
During the fight with Theseus, I've had a bug where the crosshair of his spear was visible, even if he wasn't throwing it
coarse hare
Yeah I've seen that a bunch, and did report it with F10
pastel jolt
half the time i fight theseus he ends up with two spears
one in his hand and the other just chilling on the battlefield
pseudo ocean
Ah, so it indirectly boosts all damage types including the cast. I see.
pastel jolt
@pseudo ocean actually it does work with the cast
the feedback refers to the fact that invigorating blast is the only hammer upgrade that affects your cast
oh dang apparently that one got changed at some point
man, i have GOT to fine-tooth-comb the wiki for this stuff
For 3 Sec. after absorbing your Special's blast, deal +100% damage.
tired light
has anyone run into an issue where the inputs for attack or special or cast just lock up? I'm trying to decide if this is an input issue or a game issue
pseudo ocean
Ok thanks for letting me know.
tired light
I suppose I could take this to tech support, but I'm trying to see if it's a just me thing
pseudo ocean
With a gamepad I haven't had that unless the Bluetooth cut out
median ridge
so i just had the greatest ares + artemis build of all time when the screen froze during the hydra fight....
and knowing how this has always worked for me, my save file will simply not be there in that run when i come back
grand patrol
😦
turbid needle
First run complete, I should work on improving time though
And adding some heat, usually run with full heat but I wanted to see if I can finish if I removed it
trim ingot
ouch
plucky oxide
Thinking back to the days when hydra's projectiles couldn't be destroyed by attacks.
Hydra used to be such a different fight
trim ingot
remember 6 wave heads....
native ether
trim ingot
what boon do people like on sword special
unkempt pagoda
artemis
grand patrol
athena!!
rugged apex
i'm fond of ares, myself. though athena's is probably better.
plucky oxide
Artemis for special-oriented damage builds
Ares for special-attack hybrid builds
Athena for safer options
Aphrodite for attack oriented damage builds that use empowered nova (but aphro dash works just as fine)
It's the AAAA club
rugged apex
merciful end is really dumb if you get it early. like shave six minutes off your best time dumb https://i.imgur.com/BNHYX2l.jpg
lost rose
WOAH NICE
rugged apex
I got a super dumb start with divine dash+doom attack+merciful end before meg and... yeah.
turbid needle
How soon did you get Dread Flight with that combo?
plucky oxide
my screenshot just failed on me but i secured a 14:22 minute run on artemis crit attack bow 👀
turbid needle
Was that with Dashing Wallop, too?
RIP
So now you gotta clear it again and screencap that spicy Bow Best Run.
plucky oxide
aye
also: shield is amazing. that dash + attack combo is awesome. so lucky to get that duo boon so early. well done
wheat elbow
What duo boon?
lost rose
merciful end
plucky oxide
👀
the bow run was a twin shot artemis attack crit build with an epic dash attack and 50% bonus crit damage
I didn't even get privileged status on it, which was a shame. BUT I did get the amazing Hermes 30% faster attack speed.
plucky oxide
pew pew
elfin pulsar
does attack speed make it charge faster?
plucky oxide
It appeared to. I sure don't think I woulda been that fast without it.
bright raven
Why is Aphrodite considered a top tier god? Is it just the weak effect to reduce health loss and activate privileged status? To me she doesn't feel like in she's in the Artemis/Athena tier.
lost rose
weak can be pretty good if enemies are doing 30 damage per hit
elfin pulsar
her debuff is crazy strong, its like 50% reduction or something
and her damage is decent
lost rose
plus it's a long lasting status effect that can trigger privileged status more easily than others
bright raven
So maybe she's more of a high heat god?
lost rose
sure! it comes in handy on standard difficulty too though
her duo with ares was reintroduced too
wheat elbow
Are people even considering Aphrodite to be a high tier god?
elfin pulsar
shes certainly not the speed run god atm
wheat elbow
I know I do, but most people don't seem to think as highly as I do of her.
bright raven
I feel like she's average
elfin pulsar
i personally love aphrodite on high heat, just whooped a 90 heat run due to her
lime ingot
shotgun aphrodite build would like to have a word with you
bright raven
but I have like 25 runs and only 60 heat
elfin pulsar
she also has my favorite wrath hands down
bright raven
ehhh
wheat elbow
Really?
elfin pulsar
even at common its decent
lime ingot
ok no i can't lie that run was hella lucky lol
wheat elbow
I dislike her Wrath
wheat elbow
Literaslly one of the if not the only thing I dislike about her
bright raven
her wrath is useless on bosses right?
elfin pulsar
not at all, its a solid 10 seconds of CC at worse
wheat elbow
Well, maybe the legendary too
elfin pulsar
not at all, it stuns hydra heads for the full duration, and gets the two meatheads to smack each other
bright raven
Ah interesting, I've never tried it there
elfin pulsar
its also a lot better at common than most of the other wraths, like athena wrath is amazing at epic but pretty crap at common
im not exactly sure how the targeting works but sometimes it'll just charm a whole room, love it in act 3
wheat elbow
Charming bosses doesn't last long
and their attacks will still hit you
It's a mixed bag
elfin pulsar
not sure that attack thing is true, but your mostly right about the duration
hydra heads dont count as bosses tho
seems like otherwise bosses it only lasts for 50%, maybe less
elfin pulsar
i was just watching it closely charm asterious in the last boss fight and it seemed like it lasted about 5 seconds
wheat elbow
I'm a simple man, give me a wrath effect that actually kills my enemes dead.
elfin pulsar
getting them to charge and spear each other gets em pretty dead, especially for a half bar
plus you get to safely unload while they go at it
though if I had to choose an epic wrath just for that last fight it would probably be athena or zeus or maybe artemis
turbid needle
I'll take Ares over Artemis against Theseus every day.
elfin pulsar
im unfairly biased against ares wrath cuz I think its stupid
errant narwhal
game...... game why.............
if I skip the hermes boon is there another chance of finding one or is that it 
turbid needle
Wow. That's rude.
No, Hermes Boons can and will show up until you have two.
That being said, heeeck Ares Trials.
trim ingot
yeah i skipped a hermes boon once and he showed up in a shop right after
turbid needle
Harder than Theseus and Asterius at full health.
trim ingot
hermes will find you
turbid needle
Do you have Hunting Blades yet?
errant narwhal
so while I can’t get exit wounds and I already have fully loaded, maybe I’ll get the cast crit chance?
nope
errant narwhal
just slicing shot and urge to kill
If you check the wiki for me I will be eternally grateful as I have no internet
trim ingot
hunting blades exists but patch note says you can't get a duo boon at a trial
turbid needle
Thank you.
errant narwhal
aw
well, I still need ares’ tier 2
and pressure points
idk who to choose first tho. artemis or ares?
I got black metal and burst shot hell yeah
trim ingot
nice
errant narwhal
looks like it
I have slicing shot and barbs of the master huntress
I GOT RAPID CAST
turbid needle
Ooh, that's the fun stuff.
errant narwhal
oh I am having a great time
much better than the first run I did in the new update
omg I got hunting blades
errant narwhal
But also pressure points.... but I gotta go for the duo
I hope I’ll get another artemis boon for pressure points bc if every tick of damage gets a crit chance it’s gonna get silly
oh god I got the braid of atlas too.... this is going to be hysterical
atomic star
I almost feel like the Olympian keepsakes should act like a weapon. Something to encourage you to try a different build that run.
Or maybe you can only pick one Olympian, and you cant coerce hunting blades each run
errant narwhal
it was a 50 second fight....
god I wish I had internet I wanna upload this SO bad
literally no skill needed, just holding down RMB and dashing
turbid needle
So I got the rapid fire glitch.
pure oriole
Quick question
Is there a maximum number of times where the Eye of Llamia (not sure of the spelling) can be triggered in the same room ?
teal helm
I just started a new run, and was mashing buttons on my pad while I waited, and got a "Perfect Landing" message when Zag hit the ground. 1) What? 2) Seriously, what? Is it just for fun? Does it grant some initial bonus? Do other rooms have any entrance buff that I didn't know about?
lost rose
It's just for fun!
I think I may have seen something about it affecting RNG but i don't think it makes it better or worse
teal helm
Coolio
wheat elbow
@teal helm I try to remember doing that every time I start a run as a good luck charme. Call it a ritual.
Depending on how you time it, you just do the regular superhero landing while it says "Perfect Landing" or you do this small flip animation upon landing that Zagreus does in some cases
pearl willow
@pure oriole I don't have proof but the eye-test tells me each Eye of Lamia can only provide two pieces of food per room. It almost seems to me that the drop rate is a fair bit higher than 15% until two pieces drop and then the % drops to (or almost?) zero.
wheat elbow
So I played a run using only regular spear attacks
Even got the boon that disables your charge attacks which is really nice
I believe that said hammer boon also let's you deal more attacks faster
It felt much faster than regularly
can anyone confirm?
pastel jolt
i mean, it does say in the description
Hold Attack to strike very quickly, but you cannot Spin Attack.
wheat elbow
I always thought that implies that you just do the regular very quick attack regularly without charging
pastel jolt
yes. that is.... exactly what it means.
like, congrats, that's exactly what flurry jab does?
wheat elbow
The tooltip does a poor job at reflecting that it does the attacking quicker than usual
wheat elbow
The regular attack chain is already very quick
pastel jolt
alright then
stable oyster
Very quick as opposed to normal spear speed
plain crypt
aphrodite cast with hermes auto cast is now so strong
I didn't even have that much buffing it up but I did a 16m 5s clear
plucky oxide
Yeah, Aphro cast is insane. Was playing a spear charge spin build, and Aphro cast was just a flat out better option to use half the time
plain crypt
Yeah, I was technically bow
And used jolted + zeus special, but that was only when cast was stuck
It was two or three shotting most enemies
I don't think I left-clicked once after the ~second room or so
plucky oxide
Honestly skull earring Aphro cast with rail's invigorating blast is... hooboy. It melts.
plain crypt
Oh, invigorating blast that's interesting
For skull earring would you just try to sit below 30% for speed running?
I only just started trying to go fast after switching off playing high heat runs
stable oyster
yea we actually intentionally take dmg to get in range
plucky oxide
I wouldn't 'try' per say. Sometimes the greater damage isn' necessary on certain floors.
plain crypt
Huh, that's neat. I guess it makes sense when it is such a large damage boost
plucky oxide
But on things like floor 2 boss, yeah. It's good to be at that threshold
plain crypt
Yeah that aphro cast was so smooth through hydra. I would just special and then three casts and it would die
So it was like 1 second per head
I have to say playing vanilla is kind of more fun than high heat, I feel like it tends to just be chaotic with high heat and not actually that fun
I pretty much never have gotten bow or spear to work in high heat either
stable oyster
but the rush of getting hit for 72 on the first room is so great
plain crypt
hahaha
I feel like max whipped frenzy is really what makes it feel so chaotic
When I switched back to vanilla it was like slow motion and dodging was so easy and pleasant
stable oyster
frenzy is def one of the harder ones
plain crypt
I have been trying to figure out what's the easiest 120 heat combo
I have only completed 70 though, but I have always maxed whipped frenzy
stable oyster
I think stifling darkness for sure
plain crypt
Absolutely yeah
Not even that bad of a punishment
The combo of more foes+whipped frenzy is really what pushes it over the edge I think
And high damage% of course
Feel like it's worth the 10 points for increased shop costs
plain crypt
Yeah, I wasn't sure between max tenebrous or one point
And you don't find grim inevitability to be hell?
I had stuck 350% into torment, but I feel like you might be right
Because damage in the base game is really super manageable
myrmidon+weak and you are invincible basically
stable oyster
I'm thinking of taking some off of grim and getting some more frenzy
plain crypt
Oh yeah wow only 10% whipped
I wonder if max whipped is even that bad if the torment is low
Because I usually have been max whipped and 300+ on torment and that is rough
And yeah, I guess max tenebrous probably isn't even that bad if you go shield
Everything works with shield basically
Do you consider cthonic vitality worth it when you are running with 500 darkness? Assuming no 100% grim inevitability of course
Obviously defiance and dash are the only thing that is absolutely required
stable oyster
im was going for easy mode
with like 25% frenzy and no torment you just dodge stuff and play normaly
grand patrol
elfin pulsar
thats been basically the pact i've been trying
i've got 90 down pretty good and can do 100, but 120 is definitely a beater
going from 1 tenebrous veil to 2 is brutal
makes the run feel a slave to RNG, not hard to just do terrible damage the whole time esp without the mirror
plain crypt
The biggest problem is that you can't just skip a boon
If you could then 2 tenebrous wouldn't be such a problem
elfin pulsar
maybe, tho with the new boon replacing that doesnt feel too bad anymore
i just hate runs like this one where I get my first attack boon halfway through act 3
elfin pulsar
just had an enemy randomly get permanently charmed, and I dont have a single aphro boon
anybody know what happened?
it was an elysium spearman
stable oyster
What weapon and hammer upgrade
elfin pulsar
exagryff with infinite chamber, artemis attack and athena special
stable oyster
Idk then
wheat elbow
@elfin pulsar I had that happen to me as well a couple of times.
No idea what caused it. Did it happen after he respawned?
Because that is what triggered the charm for me.
elfin pulsar
i think so
guess he was so thankful I let his spirit live he decided to be a friend
wheat elbow
And then you killed him again.
wheat elbow
Good work.
elfin pulsar
though it was just to get clapped by theseus so maybe i should have just lived in that little room with my new life partner
wheat elbow
I had a couple of those runs as well.
Like, oh my god
Yesterday or so, I tried another 120 heat run.
I would have beaten it if it wouldn't have been for one, just one room screwing me BIG time
It was a duo boon room, Ares if memory serves.
elfin pulsar
the new duo boon rooms are scary
plucky oxide
I like heat at 25 to get the better tier in Floor 1, or none at all.
light nova
I am Zag, and I am fastest half-god alive. Sometimes not alive.
Boons of Hermes are making game much funnier
wheat elbow
Sometimes I hate how unregular challenge and chaos rooms are.
Everytime Chaos shows up in front of golden laurels
it's a waste.
Everytime you take heat but don't find any challenge rooms, it's frustration.
light nova
Nobody like random
unkempt pagoda
check the pins
triple special, infinite ammo, accurate shots, spread fire, or heavy slug are fine
pastel jolt
it's the leafy shapes around the "bubble" the room rewards show up in
unkempt pagoda
artemis works well for all of them
iron flint
oh cool cool
are any particular gods really good with the rail or should I just use pierced butterfly?
unkempt pagoda
zeus and dio are great for an attack based build, and zeus and ares special pair well
kind cloud
The updated Trial rooms are dumb.
The 2nd entity takes a chunk of health and then gives a common boon. The upside is limited. There would be a reason to attempt them if the 2nd boon was guaranteed to be at least rare or better.
stable oyster
But it puts you one boon ahead on the power economy
And some boons are good even in common form
rugged apex
cough cough divine dash
stable oyster
Most wrath are fine in common form
unkempt pagoda
if you've got a solid build, more boons just decreases your chances of pomming the good ones
stable oyster
It can also fill up slots you don’t care about (cast/wrath/dash etc) so you get more legendary and duos
frank nymph
Okay so I've been using the sword whenever it gives the darkness bonus but I honestly feel like it's so much worse than the other weapons
is there anyone who likes it that has something to say for it?
unkempt pagoda
by the time trial rooms are common, you'd probably have enough to qualify for a duo/legendary
stable oyster
It’s an acquired taste
unkempt pagoda
and i'd want the prereqs to be good, depending on what the duo is
frank nymph
Any boons/upgrades that synergize really well?
frank nymph
So more of the dash attack style?
unkempt pagoda
empowering nova is great, especially with flurry blade
stable oyster
Yea I usually go dash attack + special
unkempt pagoda
athena dash helps with the close melee style
frank nymph
Hmmm okay
unkempt pagoda
flurry blade pairs excellently with dio or zeus, while world spiltter is great for ares
frank nymph
I just find that against armored foes it becomes increasingly harder to use without being able to interrupt their attacks at such short range
unkempt pagoda
artemis is good overall, but pairs well with the crit hammer upgrades
that's why you get athena dash, helps cover mistakes
the boiling blood mirror upgrade helps a ton as well
stable oyster
Or get Athena attack and flurry blade to get the “Wii tennis build”
frank nymph
I haven't gotten Flurry Blade yet unfortunately but I was wondering how that would work
stable oyster
(Not that well but it has a funny name so I like it)
unkempt pagoda
alternatively, building on privileged status is great with sword, since both its attack and special can be used in melee quickly with each other (unlike other weapons)
so you can put different statuses on both and get privileged quickly
i like to do aphro special with dio attack and flurry blade, and you can grab their duo as well
frank nymph
Guess I just gotta use it more to see what rng can give me for better combos
I like Aegis for melee since the charge shields you it becomes pretty spammable through hordes
unkempt pagoda
flurry and artemis pairs extremely well, since that's more chances for crits (especially with empowering nova)
imo, sword is probably the best balanced weapon in the game atm, very solid but has a weakness in terms of range
stable oyster
Rail seems a bit weak but idk
frank nymph
I've had some pretty decent success with the rail
but it depends on what you get with it
like I got Dio's cast and the 3x special for the rail and I was just constantly lobbing bombs which was pretty fun and worked well
stable oyster
Rolling thunder build
frank nymph
plus with Artemis' crit the special can do a lot
atomic panther
Dio cast + rail special builds are so much fun!
frank nymph
Right?
atomic panther
Triple Bomb has carried entire runs for me, tbh
frank nymph
Same here
Oh also is it just me or is exit wounds a bit ridiculous against bosses?
especially when you get the reduced drop time
graceful jackal
Okay I screwed up the codex lol
I opened and closed it
Now the text about Zeus is just stuck on my screen
I know he has a huge ego, but really man?
graceful jackal
Yeah but I’ve closed it quicker before this, so a little confused
If it helps; I was in Tartarus talking to Charon
lost rose
👍
turbid needle
some of my favorite boons are from artemis tbh, she just gives you so many options for improving your cast
+3 cast from Chaos, +2 cast from Artemis, Fully automatic cast, 200 damage for cast dislodge, faster cast dislodge, improved damage of cast
can't beat that, basically like having a gun
graceful jackal
It’s even more fun if you have Aphrodite’s cast (basically a shotgun)
turbid needle
Can't remember how that works with dislodge, does it stick into an enemy after you use it?
stable oyster
Yea
turbid needle
with normal enemies your cast will kill them before a dislodge so it's not a concern, but that bonus damage you get on bosses for that dislodge bonus is just too good
honestly though, I prefer posiedons AoE or the bouncing lighting from Zues, it clears rooms so much faster
rugged apex
honestly I don't like poseidon's aoe cast - it feels slower than even the basic cast.
graceful jackal
The OOOH boy you will kill everything
turbid needle
it's a pretty large AoE though
and some high damage
when you get the right cast synergies, poseidons AoE is god tier
rugged apex
nice.
graceful jackal
Rift blades are OP
graceful jackal
I literally had the wrath
And the legendary boon (damage increases each hit for the blades on an enemy)
I dropped A from 25->0 in 4 seconds, and T from 50->0 in 6
Hooooly crap
turbid needle
nah, I usually just look at my time after I beat a fury
graceful jackal
If I guesstimate; usually 10 minutes or less
turbid needle
I have an issue where I'll clear the tart in like 7 minutes, asphodel will be cleared between the 14 and 16 minute mark, but elysium always takes me forever
graceful jackal
Well let’s see..the butterfly orbs of death have a lot of hp
There are shield enemies
And said enemies can regenerate if you’re not fast enough
turbid needle
yeah those are usually the ones that trip me up, the orbs
graceful jackal
My advice, kill everything else
turbid needle
yeah I've been doing that recently, I just always notice I'll have to focus on one enemy at a time unless I have some really good boons with the blades
like strike twice with special, raise special by at least 100% damage, increase AoE of special, 100+ doom with special, those usually make elysium a lot easier
graceful jackal
Depends on your weapon
plucky oxide
I usually get through Tartarus anywhere between 4:30 through 7:30, the faster being no timed or challenge rooms. Going for shops and ! rooms also helps, but efficient room clearing is key.
Asphodel is tricky. If I got an awesome build I can be out of there by 8 or 9 minutes. If I'm just not cutting things up efficiently, 12-15. Getting Artemis' wrath can help shave off a few seconds here and there.
Elysium can be a fight-for-my-life, or a cakewalk. The hardest runs are actually the ones where I'm confident in my build, but I lack defenses. I'll usually take skull earring during the runs I think I'm excelling at, though there have been a few close calls when builds don't pan out correctly (looking at you, rail).
At my fastest, 14.5-17. At my slowest? 30-35.
turbid needle
that rail gonna get you
plucky oxide
Sword and bow often get me really fast runs consistently. Shield nets me safe runs at moderate speeds, or absolutely insane fast runs. If I don't take a safe boon path with rail it can be a nightmare.
Did they get rid of the shield hammer that returns to you after first hit?
turbid needle
never used it, think I saw it though
plucky oxide
Pushing really hard to find a certain build I want to run. Requires a duo though, so it's unlikely I'll get it.
Ares Special, Athena Attack or Dash, and their duo boon.
I have a feeling if I get lucky enough, I'll be able to reach Incredibly Fast High Damage with that run. Enough to make Hermes jealous.
kind cloud
I think Shield of Chaos is now my favorite weapon in the game. The Stygian Blade was my main but it's unreal how much easier the game is with Aegis.
@plucky oxide
I tried one of the builds you recommended. I used Athena's cast and cheesed my way through the game.
😂
plucky oxide
ayyyy, nice
aegis is definitely the easiest weapon to clear with. super good defensive capabilities
plain crypt
What do you all think of using Bracer from the start and throughout on high-heat runs?
I've always done boon/boon/bracer, but I am wondering if it's better do go myrmidon throughout on 120 heat runs
kind cloud
I'm partial to boon/boon/bracer as well because I can go through the first two stages relatively unscathed (even in some trial rooms) but I find the bracer as a near must have for Elysium.
That said, from time to time I'll switch it up with the purse or the spike for Elysium depending on need.
plain crypt
Wow, yeah I still need to get better at the 120 heat runs. I don't know that I have gotten past Asphodel
Perhaps once, can't quite remember
I take way too much trash damage on Tartarus
Oh Spiked Collar, that's interesting. I guess it does have far more value on high heat
rugged apex
I didn't get merciful end until elysium on this run, so I might just be... getting better at the game https://i.imgur.com/R7ebVwD.jpg
horrifying.
lost rose
👏 🎉
turbid needle
Man, I need to get better at this game.
kind cloud
I've watched a number of players finish the game under 20 minutes but I have yet to accomplish that even in normal (re: non-heat) difficulty with any of the weapons. My best is like 25 minutes.
rugged apex
part of it is fated authority, tbh - being able to focus on a set of boons from gods really changes how efficient you can be.
since the pool of possible gods for boons is kinda weird and rarely gets above 3 gods at any given time, rerolling will usually just give you the god you need if it gives a boon.
turbid needle
I'll get the right Gods but not the right Boons.
rugged apex
yeah, that happens. but the focus still helps.
plucky oxide
Fated's great. Really excellerates my runs. God Keepsake / God Keepsake / Bracer or Skull Earring is the true MVP tho
turbid needle
I'm a fan of Broken Spearpoint on Elysium.
plucky oxide
Just played a run with around 50% dodge
turbid needle
I broke 50% Dodge once.
plucky oxide
It just kind of felt like a normal run
turbid needle
I don't remember it being really big, but I had a ton of health and won.
plucky oxide
I don't really know what I'm dodging and what I'm not
Broken spearpoint is nice. Makes mistakes feel less awful. Especially against those shield enemies.
lost rose
thank you based patroclus
sometimes i forget i'm running it for several runs, and get rudely surprised when i switch it off
turbid needle
So, uh. Rapid Cast Scatter Shot is a thing.
And it synergizes very well with Fully Loaded and Exit Wounds.
plucky oxide
Yep it's pretty lethal
normal harness
How do you kill me minotaur and the other :)
median ridge
i’m going to sound like hypnos here, but learn how to dodge their attacks
theseus’s spear can be dodged if you time it right or go behind a pillar
plucky oxide
Also listen to the sound of Theseus calling out to his best friend. He'll do a charge attack in a line forward after vaulting off the beef.
pastel jolt
the most common call for that one is theseus shouting "bull horn"
also, he doesn't vault off! he literally gets yeeted forward and i love it
turbid needle
If you take Asterius down first, Theseus doesn't telegraph the end of the spear throw anymore.
I'm starting to think that was intentional.
plucky oxide
Y'gotta whittle em down at the same time. It's tricky, but optimizing damage is important in that fight.
Gotta say. This game has done a great job at tuning AOE damage to be viable in boss battles.
normal harness
Thanks :))
turbid needle
So I did just try whittling them down at the same time.
It worked really really well.
Being able to dodge immediately before Theseus throws his spear while Olympians are attacking is really helpful.
And fast Asterius is probably scarier than Theseus.
hushed parrot
Something that is making me confused:
The Poseidon boon Razor Shoals refers to the Rupture damage being equal to a percent of "impulse distance"?
I guess it makes sense that it just causes foes to take damage based on how quickly they are moving, but the term impulse distance just seems to bother me 🤔
wheat elbow
Ruptures description is weird.
Easy explanation is that enemies suffer damage if they move, with the damage seemingly being dependend on distance and speed
normal harness
@turbid needle did u use the shield or another weapon?
turbid needle
Bow, actually.
Got Explosive and Power Shot and Deadly Strike.
Had 940-ish crits with Privileged Status.
Also had Rapid Cast Scatter Shot where they themselves were pushing 200 damage and Hunter's Mark.
normal harness
Wow xD ty
wheat elbow
Exolosive shot and power shot sounds weird together though
I can see the numbers getting super high, but the charge time....
turbid needle
Lots of dash attacks.
And even a virtually uncharged shot (Oh, I also had a +55% Chaos Strike) was breaking 100 damage.
wheat elbow
Yeah, also, the buff to exploshots was huge last update.
That period where you needed to charge for a certain time before a shot even came off was terrible
dull sundial
Question about keepsakes: For Thanatos's and Hermes's, where you gain a point of damage/speed+dodge for each encounter you clear without getting hit/in the time limit, if I trade out the keepsake in the middle of the run, do I keep the bonuses I've accrued up to that point?
wheat elbow
That would have been OP as hell
rugged apex
keeping the bonuses after swapping, yes. it counting all situations that you could have gotten a bonus in... not so much
dull sundial
Alright. Yeah, I wouldn't assume you'd gain bonuses retroactively, but I kinda feel the bonuses themselves should stick with you. It gets harder to do a no-hit or fast run as you get deeper, but there are other keepsakes that I would use once then swap out.
Like the money from Hypnos's coin purse, or selecting your next boon in a run. I assume Skelly's free Death Defy doesn't stick around if you don't use it, but if you use it then survive, there's no reason not to swap it out.
plucky oxide
It's OP because there are other keepsakes that give massive bonuses without requiring you run them for all of the floors.
Thanatos' butterfly, and then swapping it out for skull earring, but keeping both benefits, is where things get nutty.
tiny rune
Damn alot of things feel OP but "Hunting Blades" is truly broken and fun. especially if u can get the diffrent buffs to casting and blade rift.
plucky oxide
Ares/Artemis Duo
Ares/Athena Duo
Ares Legendary
Ares Special
Are all on my 'overtuned' list
dull sundial
I guess I haven't really considered the numbers, but even if you had a really fortunate run through Asphodel, and juiced up the butterfly a bunch, the damage buff seems like it would be on par for an epic boon or chaos blessing. Granted, it covers ALL damage and not just from one type of attack.
I guess it's just odd that you're in all-or-nothing for those keepsakes, and it discourages you from exchanging them after bosses.
plucky oxide
Yeah. The reward doesn't justify the commitment, in my eyes.
dull sundial
Is there currently any mechanical benefit to giving characters more Ambrosia after the first one to get their keepsake? I see that some levels of the hearts are locked. I assume that's an Early Access thing. I've given a bunch to Artemis, and her dialogue seems to reflect her being warmer to me, but I don't know if that's because of the gifts, or just something that happens over time.
plucky oxide
Nope! No 'gameplay' effecting things, beyond better relationships with characters and feeling invested in their characters.
There is one thing that ambrosia also unlocks, relating to a specific, musically inclined character
It's my suspicion that the reason AOE circles continue to see more and more use by enemies is because Devs don't have to consider how Athena's reflect will negate and fling the entire attack back at opponents.
unkempt pagoda
🤨
@toxic acorn you're tired of... people using the voting system in the feedback channel?
turbid needle
Just beat the game does anyone know where to see how many attempts of escape I’ve done
toxic acorn
not exactly. i'm more tired of any and all requests to make the game more fair by increasing difficulty being downvoted.
it's two-parted. "game should be harder" is being downvoted when the point of the request is to increase the fairness of the game
unkempt pagoda
i mean... ok
looks like people disagree that the way to make the game more fair is to make it more difficult
turbid needle
That’s where the pack of punishment comes in if people want it harder
unkempt pagoda
it's being downvoted because people disagree with it, the system is working as intended
toxic acorn
two examples being:
- a post a few days ago about athena's dash being too strong being downvoted into oblivion, when the point of "deflect is very strong on the dash and should be nerfed or changed because it's too strong" is totally reasonable imo
-my post of the boat being weakened, which i'll concede i didn't explain well enough - that room fails to feel like a miniboss outside of it's setting, because it has the enemy difficulty of a normal room now
unkempt pagoda
then people feel that athena dash is fine where it's currently as
therefore they downvoted it
toxic acorn
fishe, i also made a post about the pact of punishment - the two biggest takeaways being that debuffs are either unfair in multiples or unfun completely. the pact should increase the challenge while still keeping the most fun part of the game, zagreus' moveset and the flow of combat
grand ledge
I don't think zags moveset really changes through pact stuff
turbid needle
amber, there are players of all levels and experiences who might have a hard time beating the game as is
if you’d like a tougher experience, you have the option to use the pact of punishment, as mentioned! the devs try their best to make the game enjoyable for everyone with all skill levels
no need to take it to heart..!
also, @turbid needle you can check escape attempts right here in zaggy’s room
unkempt pagoda
hmm don't you have to buy that bowl or am i misremembering
grand ledge
though pact definitely feels iffy right now. I think it's just enemies are supposed to scale faster, but the pact makes them scale up too fast.
turbid needle
oh tru.. forgot that
toxic acorn
might be 300, i think that's achilles scroll tho
turbid needle
but you can also check the escape attempts from your savefile in the main menu if you don’t have it
pastel jolt
aphrodite wall-scroll 500 
/ achilles wall-scroll 300 / trojan arms 200 / scrying pool 50
toxic acorn
ah ty
the biggest reasons why the challenge of the game should be increased is to keep the pace of challenge. the boat is quite weak now and doesn't have the combat challenge of a miniboss anymore, it has the aesthetic of one due to being a "setpiece" but the enemy challenge is about the same as a normal room now, just in a slightly smaller setting that is still comparable to how much space you'd use in any normal combat encounter. i never find myself using the entire space of a room in asphodel in one fight, about one screen, which is the same size as the boat
turbid needle
I think the way a lot of "nerf xyz" posts are worded encourages disagreement. It's often worded as "XYZ should be nerfed because I think it's too strong", while I think it would be more productive and agreeable to try and argue that "XYZ outperforms pretty much all alternatives in its slot and should be brought back in line to make the others viable choices again."
Also, with the Pact of Punishment in place as a mechanic to increase difficulty, erring a bit on the easier side of the "casual" <-> "gid gud" spectrum for the "baseline" feels more sensible because it keeps the game more accessible.
toxic acorn
as it stands right now, hades is already a very easy roguelike, so i don't see a problem with increasing the base difficulty to keep everything in line
grand ledge
I can agree with that Hypergrip, though I think part of the reason it's easy right now is because we're still playing a stage down
toxic acorn
it's frustrating to feel like a lot of my feedback is invalidated because i'm "asking for the wrong thing"
analog sail
I don't see any easy way the devs can increase difficulty in the way you want without spending a boatload of time on it.
Imo, the easy ways to increase difficulty that usually are implemented in other games are already in the Pact.
grand ledge
That would definitely feel frustrating, but that's part of the risks when doing community voting stuff like this.
turbid needle
I think it's really hard to assess how easy/hard a game is for a new player once you have played it yourself for quite a while. Judging by the streams I've watched of players who are new to the game the difficulty (at least for the first 2 biomes) seems to be in a pretty good place allowing for gradual progress. (Though admittedly a bunch of streams isn't exactly the most comprehensive of datasets)
grand ledge
Also, is there a requirement to leave feedback now? I think I could leave it in the old stuff before but now I can't post into the new feedback?
analog sail
Check the pins in #hades-feedback
uneven dagger
It's also sort-of just a drawback of the current system Amber. For example in a recent post you made you mentioned buffing the hydra's health to make it more of an endurance test. I'm in favor of buffing the Hydra, however I dislike its current design so if I had reacted to your post I'd have downvoted it.
grand ledge
ahh, guess I missed that message when I checked earlier. Thanks!
uneven dagger
I wouldn't be surprised if some suggestions are downvoted simply because they'd require significant development time, and the person voting would prefer that to go into something else. Right now it's a large veil that the poster can't see through.
Not to shoot down your point of people seeming to favor an overall easier game, just commenting on the last thing you said.
toxic acorn
very true. i think my second sentence could have been reworded like "before elysium was added, the hydra felt like a test of endurance, but his health has been nerfed quite a lot and now he doesn't have a proportional amount of health compared to elysium's massive health pools"
grand ledge
That's definitely true. There's many reasons people could downvote but not as many reasons to upvote.
toxic acorn
"and i'd like to see him return to an endurance test, because the style of his boss fight is very different than asterius & theseus"
turbid needle
@uneven dagger Same here. I would have downvoted it, too, not because I don't want the Hydra fight to be more of a challenge, but because I don't like "bullet sponge" type bosses and'f rather seeing more complex attack patterns/phases
toxic acorn
that's also totally fair hypergrip! and it's another thing i didn't explain clearly enough, i think - the hydra's attacks are easily avoidable, which lends itself to a great endurance boss fight.
plucky oxide
One could argue that your continuous playtime has made Hydra 'easily avoidable'. SGG probably likes watching streamers because it's an easy way to see how new players approach their content. The mistakes they make, and how long it takes them to identify patterns.
toxic acorn
...roguelikes incentivize continuous playtime?
plucky oxide
Bullet sponge style enemies are also necessary to test your competency, as burst builds could absolutely negate any challenge in actually seeing those complex attack patterns/phases.
toxic acorn
pretty heavily? their challenge (and gameplay loop) is part of the appeal?
plucky oxide
Yeah and I've yet to die to the first bosses in roguelites since the first couple of times in plenty of other games.
I'd say it's too early to buff Hydra when we only have one difficulty of Boss above Hydra to compare it to.
And they have added different attack patterns to Hydra. Wave crasher heads are 'new'
toxic acorn
okay, so can i offer a different angle of looking at it?
lost rose
Was the hydra changed significantly as part of the Elysium update? I thought it had been basically the same for a while
Other than better telegraphing
toxic acorn
either the hydra's health has been lowered or the pace of boon progression has been shifted to get bigger numbers faster - hydra dies much quicker than he has in previous updates, from my perspective.
uneven dagger
I started playing shortly after the Elysium patch and Hydra is a joke. From what I heard / remember he used to be challenging but has since been nerfed. That may also be related to Zag's dash rework but my memory pre-Elysium is little & foggy.
plucky oxide
I mean, it's probably the additive damage change, but I've yet to two shot Hydra heads in the same ways since original Artemis boons.
lost rose
The hydra has been nerfed steadily since release but it was mostly pre-elysium
uneven dagger
I'd find it harder to instead fight Asterius, the butterfly miniboss, or maybe even "Murrrderrr" .
lost rose
I think boons have gotten stronger
Other stuff was mostly qol/changing unfair mechanics
The hydra was hard because it was unfair and unpolished
I think there should be a distinction made between like...unfinished gameplay and real difficulty
plucky oxide
Quality of life changes have happened to Hydra steadily. All of which I've been in favor of. The thing I find was a bad change was removing unblockable projectiles, and that change happened a while ago.
Like, a long while ago. Wave flingers were a welcome addition to the crew for that exact reason.
toxic acorn
the "different angle of looking at it" that i mentioned earlier is from that of difficulty pacing, and it derives from when elysium was added with it's massive health pools. i don't think elysium is a big issue right now and i think that after getting through it 10 or 15 times, it's familiar enough and i'm noticing that the attacks are really good, actually! i like the difficulty of elysium. the problem is that asphodel -> elysium is a big step up, at least with the later elysium rooms having roughly 10x as much health to cut through compared to the later asphodel rooms. instead of lowering the difficulty of elysium, it would make more sense to increase asphodel's general challenge, so the step from tartarus -> asphodel, which is noticable but small, is a lot closer to asphodel -> elysium. and increasing asphodel's difficulty would also make the "step up" to elysium a lot smaller, which would again smooth out the pace of the challenge.
lost rose
People used to say asphodel was too steep a difficulty curve too
grand ledge
I like the gameplay of elysium but I don't like the health bars. It just feels like my attacks can't do enough damage.
plucky oxide
Maybe they'll say the same about Elysium next update -shrug-
lost rose
They're working on the last biome now, I feel like the point of that is precisely so they can work on the pacing of gameplay, y'know
grand ledge
yeah definitely
plucky oxide
^
grand ledge
pacing being done in the middle would be largely wasted effort
toxic acorn
it's not anymore, especially when compared to elysium. and sure, this might be "big picture" balance changes, but that absolutely does not mean we can't discuss it now.
plucky oxide
It means I'm not interested in focusing on it until the entire pacing is present though, which hence, could probably be the cause of why your feedback is hitting opposition.
lost rose
Yeah we can and we are but part of that convo needs to be awareness of what makes the difficulty or lack thereof happen and what's coming next
plucky oxide
Like, shield special in its current form is crazy damage. I can sit in the corner of Hydra, spam to my hearts content, and secure an easy win.
But I'm not too fond of using the feedback system for such things as boon balancing, seeing as these things seem to swap about on a patch to patch basis as it is.
lost rose
Also just as an aside: SGG absolutely reads and responds to feedback but they're competent game designers who aren't gonna derail a project just because a feedback post got a lot of upvotes. They have an idea of what this should look like and while our suggestions definitely play a part, so do live streamers' recorded gameplay, so does their own game dev experience, etc.
It's not a tyranny of democracy lol
plucky oxide
Just because people disagree with you doesn't inherently make it a bad idea. That's something I struggle with a lot. If anything, it shows a split in your player bases perspective of your game, and that has its own merits to understand.
toxic acorn
i never said it was. i understand that a lot of the stuff that i'm submitting to feedback won't get touched because of the focus on the next biome. it's still frustrating though.
uneven dagger
Mm, currently Asphodel is the neglected middle child with an (imo) disappointing miniboss / boss and really large rooms despite most enemies having single-targeted attacks. It feels very out of place, like the bombing skeletons would be better suited to the tighter chambers of Tartarus. I see no reason why the fourth area would impact this discussion.
unkempt pagoda
that being said, people disagreeing with you doesn't spark the need to complain about them in the feedback channel
lost rose
Yeah, I'm just saying that while voting may represent The Voice Of The People or whatever, that doesn't mean it will reflect the final game content
grand ledge
Mqpg, I think I can see what you're saying.
lost rose
Mqpg, see that's a good point tho - it's not just "the difficulty curve is wack" you have something to say about the like...enemy types and such
Specifics help
Bc the broader strokes are still being sketched out
toxic acorn
alright i'm gonna rewrite my boat feedback, because i think i've touched on some specifics in this channel and i didn't communicate them well in my first feedback post on it
unkempt pagoda
on the same vein of this subject, i've been raising my eyebrows on how some people are using the ❌ emote on these feedbacks
lost rose
If it makes you feel better we pretty much ignore them unless there's like.....many of them
unkempt pagoda
take nyancat's feedback about heavy slug feeling good, people are ❌ ing it even though it's still legitimate feedback
like,,, good feedback is still feedback
pastel jolt
it's consistently been a Thing that people seem to think ❌ means "super-disagree"
lost rose
~there's a rules post they're supposed to read~ lol
unkempt pagoda
i have a slight suspicion people only read the pins just to post
autumn tapir
I think people use the X on that heavy slug one because it feels more like a discussion
unkempt pagoda
i mean, nyancat is saying they like heavy slug
lost rose
hahaha ya think
but yeah people have different ideas of what makes legit feedback so
unkempt pagoda
it's positive feedback
lost rose
🤷
autumn tapir
I mean
from my view, feedback is things that can be improved on or a response to things that have been improved on
heavy slug, iirc, hasn't had any changes beyond being added to the game, so saying "heavy slug is good" feels more like something that would go in this channel
but also everyone has different views on feedback
toxic acorn
I hope my re-feedback on the boat ride that I just posted is explained better and covers most of everything. Getting through the 2000 character limit was tricky.
@clever prawn why are you giving an X on legitimate feedback oh my god
clever prawn
Because I feel like the boat-ride is in a good place at the moment, for balance with all of the weapons in consideration. I think it's a non-issue at the moment.
The boat prior to the beefy patch was more challenging than it's current state-but also a nightmare for not using one of the meelee weapons. They've nerfed it, and made it more balanced, and so where it's sitting now I think it's about where it should be- I generally lose a varying amount of health, regardless of what weapon I use (because I just grab whatever has dark drinker at the beginning of a run) and it feels right now.
toxic acorn
^
clever prawn
@unkempt pagoda Ah, my misunderstanding then- when I have seen people use it before, it appeared to be for things that people were not thinking were actually issues.
pastel jolt
it's in the pinned posts that you're supposed to read
clever prawn
Versus, "I disagree with the changes that you are proposing."
I'll go remedy that, thanks for clarifying.
pastel jolt
❌ is strictly for things that are irrelevant or break the rules of the channel
toxic acorn
lmao oh mods im so sorry
unkempt pagoda
@autumn tapir I feel like feedback can also include positive things too. When someone makes a positive comment about a new feature, that helps SGG know that that feature is good, which is still helpful in their decision making and balancing.
toxic acorn
nobody ever reads the pinned posts 
serene tinsel
unkempt pagoda
helps them know what ideas are good or not, and if they're on the right track
clever prawn
I read it, months ago at this point
But I also read through everybody else's feedback, to see what the general feel for the game is
And that was how I had seen it being used. At least my interpretation of it.
Changed it over now. 👍🏿
unkempt pagoda
yeah, i feel that's a problem i've been seeing with the ❌ in general
toxic acorn
the one thing i wish i had said in this post on the boat that i didn't have space for was "the boat fails to have the challenge of a miniboss"
clever prawn
I dunno, I feel like for the second biome, that it does
toxic acorn
it has the spectacle, but aside from tight quarters there's not enough that sets it apart from a normal room.
clever prawn
Especially with the bow
lost rose
We're discussing taking the ❌ out as an option but can't really edit the pinned post for right now
so
hold ya horses 😂
wicked parrot
Has anyone else had issues with heavy slug missing targets with a dash attack?
clever prawn
The boat can suck with the bow, depending on your boons
serene tinsel
I do kind of agree, I've been actively going for the boat
toxic acorn
i think a lot of folks are having issues with heavy slug and rapid shot? i actively avoid them so i don't have much experience
wicked parrot
It seems to always hit slightly to the side half the time
lost rose
the boat definitely got easier but idk if it's actively easier than megagorgon now...depends on your build
clever prawn
But it's intense, you take the hits, you get out in my experience.
The alternate one, the Gorgon just takes forever, and number of hits depends on your build
unkempt pagoda
i do feel like ❌ has a legit use if used correctly
toxic acorn
megagorgon is in a good place due to it's massive health pool, though i think the petrify might be a bit awkward with how the fight wants you to play it.
wicked parrot
Hope they patch, not worth building slug at this point :/
clever prawn
Haha, @toxic acorn I think you and I have different feelings about the durations of fights.
I have currently stopped playing the game with any regularity, specifically because of how much health the Minotaur and Theseus have
pastel jolt
i mean, i've won runs with a heavy slug build before
i'd hardly say it's not worth building for
clever prawn
I literally glaze over during those fights, as well as the Gorgon.
wicked parrot
Yeah same I was trying to clear 120 heat with it, got to Ely but then I really started to notice the accuracy
clever prawn
You can't stay still to output damage, so it's literally nonstop dodging, and trickle damage.
wicked parrot
I feel like it's a bug though that's all
toxic acorn
big health pools and easy-to-avoid attacks are a good indicator of an endurance fight. hydra is almost at both of those points which is a direction i think it should go towards, and the gorgon has the health but the attacks are a bit funky. asterius and theseus have big health pools, but at the point where you get to them so do you so it really feels like a coliseum brawl with you both taking hits and hitting hard back. it takes a while and you end up dodging more because they both outnumber and outdamage you, but you're supposed to feel like an undergod (hah pun) in that fight, i think. it's really really fun, definitely my favorite boss fight.
serene tinsel
yeah honestly the entirety of asphodel still feels pretty rough compared to the other two biomes
unkempt pagoda
i think asphodel can benefit from having an npc, honestly
toxic acorn
aaaanyways all yall should go read my feedback post on the boat and tell me im trying to make the game worse, i'm gonna get dinner
✌
wicked parrot
I found the boat pretty easy atm, even on 120 heat it's pretty straightforward
I think it's in a good place
clever prawn
@toxic acorn Yeah for me, what I really enjoy about the game, is having different mechanics on my character for every run. The diversity of options.
Because of the giant health pools, it feels like certain builds are just not viable against the bosses in Elysium. It feels a lot if I don't build specifically for those fights, I'm not going to complete a run- or even worse, that fight will just take 15 plus minutes on its own. And that kills my motivation.
serene tinsel
yeah by the time you reach elysium, your choice of boons has a big impact
clever prawn
I do think the hydra is in a good place- It feels difficult, but approachable. For someone who spent as many hours in the game as I have (Which, is not as many as these people doing 120 heat runs. :-) ) I feel like it is a boss I should be able to clock out without running a death defiance. And that's usually how it goes, How easy that is depends on the build.
wicked parrot
I think they really need to rework the aoe damage effects in the double boon rooms
toxic acorn
okay last post before dinner, and this miiiiight come off as rude and i'm really truly sorry if it does, skruff, but i think that you're supposed to be able to make builds that are both good at wave-clearing normal rooms and being capable of dishing a lot of that damage to a single target, and that's what makes a build actually good
clever prawn
before the beefy patch, it was not like that. It was just pure luck whether I would be him at all. But when they told him down, he feels more reasonable. My knowledge of his move set allows me to beat him with minimal trouble. Had I just started the game, it would not be the same.
pastel jolt
i feel like a large part of the percieved difficulty of the bosses is the fact that, currently, theseus and asterius are the last challenge of any given run
back when hydra was the endpoint, i struggled with it a lot more than i do now
wicked parrot
An athena shield can literally spawn in front of you mid dash and do more than 20 damage
clever prawn
@toxic acorn Not rude at all. :)
I do feel like a certain amount of that is luck though. It depends on what boons are even in option for you, if you don't have the reroll ability.
Like my last five runs of the game, I have not seen any options to have a deflect.
ANY.
I thought Zeus got removed from the game, because I had not seen him in 10 runs.
serene tinsel
I feel you man, I swear I have not seen dionysus in the past 20 runs
pastel jolt
that seems like an exaggeration.
clever prawn
The only reason I figured it was probably RNG, was because his keepsake.
Not in the least.
unkempt pagoda
me with thanatos during MDK
clever prawn
Literally 5 and 10.
@serene tinsel haha, take some of mine!
I always get Dio and Poseidon
Occasional Art. Occasional Ares. Occasional Athena.
wicked parrot
How do you get access to the feedback channel? I have at least 100hrs in this game now, do you just have to chat in discord regularly?
serene tinsel
read pins dude
lost rose
check the pinned post
wicked parrot
Ok yeah fair haha
clever prawn
I never see Aphrodite, which is fine by me, because charm and weak are useless.
autumn tapir
better than poseidon, who seems to be ignoring my restraining order
robust garden
her wrath is pretty good imo
clever prawn
And I only just ran into Zeus again for the first time on my last run
unkempt pagoda
all the pins pls
clever prawn
@robust garden if they have changed it, I haven't used it. But usually, it would charm enemies, and then they would just stand there, or slowly walk towards other enemies. They wouldn't actually attack anybody, because they would never be in range.
So basically it just helped them stand still so I could wail on them.
robust garden
oh btw
have you gotten epic zeus wrath?
i have
once
it destroyed theseus and asterius
first heat run
autumn tapir
dionysus wrath is in a close battle with artemis wrath for most useless for me
robust garden
it was the second time i used it in that run
serene tinsel
I really want to like poseidon, since my favourite part of Hades is the emphasis on 'fighting dirty'
clever prawn
@robust garden I've only seen Zeus once since the beefy update. So probably not.
clever prawn
Yeah
like, zero doors with the option to get Zeus. Because if I get the option, Zeus and Ares are the first ones I will always go to.
So I've been looking for him. He's got a restraining order on me.
autumn tapir
ouch
serene tinsel
and poseidon seems good for that since he enables tactics like traps and wall slams
clever prawn
Or he moved. And didn't tell me. 😢
robust garden
i got his legendary the run after the epic wrath
so apparently he poved in with pme
but that may be because he just sent a thunderstrom to me on monday
so he's trying to make it up
serene tinsel
buuuut all that stuff is useless in asphodel, hell knockback feels like an active detriment at times
clever prawn
@serene tinsel Poseidon is so good in Elysium... And then so bad on the bosses. Because there are so many traps in the rest of the Elysium. And then it does absolutely nothing against the Minotaur and Theseus.
serene tinsel
yeah exactly
clever prawn
@robust garden Seems legit
autumn tapir
poseidon has the highest damage buffs but that alone doesn't help at all
robust garden
dude i love zeus and he loves me
serene tinsel
poseidon feels way too situational, since some rooms just don't benefit from knockback
autumn tapir
the problem is poseidon's inherent design is absolute cheese
you're flinging things around the room and stunlocking them, which either you 1. forbid on bosses (not fun) or 2. allow on bosses (poseidon is ez wins)
serene tinsel
hmm yeah, it seems hard to balance for sure
clever prawn
I agree, But I think there's a middle ground.
robust garden
maybe this is why they released the game in early access
plucky oxide
I personally think the knockback is way too strong. The additive doesn't help things either. Fighting in asphodel is hoping you yeet an enemy off screen and into lava
robust garden
so they can fix this before it ships
serene tinsel
I disagree Pause, I spend all of asphodel hoping the enemies don't get pushed into the lava
clever prawn
So actually, while we have hive mind going.
Does anyone else find that the basic attack with the spear is completely useless? As well as the spin attack? Beyond the first biome anyways.
robust garden
nah
plucky oxide
Spin attack is far from useless
robust garden
i find it pretty good
pastel jolt
spin attack good
clever prawn
That's interesting. Anytime I try to stop to actually poke something with it, and ends up getting me hit.
And in a game, that is entirely about not getting hit.
robust garden
and then it's just better bow
plucky oxide
Stabs good for fast proccing. Spin attack for risk/reward burst. Special for ranged and backstab.
serene tinsel
I like spear a lot better once I can get a hammer
clever prawn
Also, the ridiculous amount of damage that special does, versus the poke. It's kind of like, why would I ever use the poke?
robust garden
yea like on some weapons it feel like you need a hammer to be able to win with it
like spear or shield imo
plucky oxide
Get used to charging before enemies spawn, and then dashing to hit them all. Then, slowly find how you can keep this mantra going while the fight is going on. Repositioning will be necessary, but it's far from lacking any skill, nor is it unfair
neat jacinth
i find spear normal to be quite alright for stunlocking singular unarmoured foes, maybe 2 if i have the zues boon
though i also generally prefer the special for it
autumn tapir
spear and rail are the Hammer Weapons
clever prawn
@plucky oxide Can you charge - dash - release?
neat jacinth
distance dmg hammer is nice for normal though
robust garden
yea @clever prawn
plucky oxide
Dash will release it, skruff. And move you.
serene tinsel
on that note, I really do love how hades makes viable weapons that feel totally different and support different playstyles
plucky oxide
AND the hurt box is as long as your dash
robust garden
does it count as a dash attack?
clever prawn
@neat jacinth Yeah, and that works for me in the first biome,
autumn tapir
I hope we get a slow-but-strong weapon
clever prawn
But beyond that, everything is armored, or has a shield. Or is a buggy that is trying to run into you.
plucky oxide
No. It used to. But spear does NOT synergies from dash attack
serene tinsel
like I've seen wildly differing opinions on pretty much all the weapons
neat jacinth
ye, can't do it until their armour is shredded ;v;
plucky oxide
It used to :^)
clever prawn
@serene tinsel Yeah, I was going to say, I always feel like the rail is the cheese weapon. But I've seen plenty of people say it's weak.
neat jacinth
it's nice for locking down the skull crushers
plucky oxide
When Artemis gave 100% guaranteed crit from dashing :)
neat jacinth
before they lift off again
robust garden
gn gus
clever prawn
Since Elysium, my only clears are spear and rail.
serene tinsel
like I know a lot of people trash the bow, and it's my fav weapon
clever prawn
@robust garden Night, thanks for your input
@serene tinsel It's the weapon that makes me feel the coolest, but it especially feels useless against Thesus, because he's always blocking.
Especially since I rather like the slow firing buff.
serene tinsel
yeah true, it's a bit underpowered atm I think
clever prawn
@serene tinsel I agree. I love the power shot mechanic, it feels skill-based to me, and that makes me feel good about my performance in the game.
serene tinsel
that's early access for ya
plucky oxide
Bow isn't underpowered. It just requires a bit of mechanical skill and a lot of enemy knowledge. It's not that the weapon is bad, it just requires a bit more from you.
clever prawn
Versus the sword, and which I feel like I am just Slicey McSlamSlam.
serene tinsel
I literally just said it was my favourite, obviously it's not bad
plucky oxide
"It's a bit underpowered atm"
clever prawn
Yeah, it's great for the first two biomes, and then it's okay during Elysium, and then it's Not wonderful during the final boss fight.
plucky oxide
Twin shot bow earned me one of my fastest times. If anything, Bow lacks flavor in its special hammers. But I love bow dearly
clever prawn
ESPECIALLY with the slow charge shot
serene tinsel
yeah I never take slow charge
clever prawn
@serene tinsel It seems like the risk-reward option, which is the one I tend to like
plucky oxide
The day I take slow charge is the day I feel 100% confident I'll win a bow run.
I've yet to honestly. A bit scared of it.
plucky oxide
Alas, sword special hammers exist, with no downsides
serene tinsel
doesn't stop twin shot from being absurdly good
plucky oxide
Twin shot absurdddd I love it. Forcing me to play tighter quarters is a blast.
serene tinsel
oh yeah I've never taken sword special
clever prawn
They have had the nerf some of them the sword specials. They felt so good.
Was it the flourish one? Where after you use the special, for the next 3 seconds, all attacks would be critical?
unkempt pagoda
they still feel good
serene tinsel
I only really used sword much in early game
plucky oxide
Bow: Hey you can augment how your attacks function, it's really neat and-
Sword: Just do your special twice with no drawbacks no biggie. Not large enough? Here's a larger radius with damage bonus.
unkempt pagoda
empowering nova still exists and stacks nicely with artemis
serene tinsel
back when I still got my ass kicked by meg
clever prawn
And now it's down to a percent chance that your attacks afterwards would be critical.
unkempt pagoda
sudden sunder was nerfed to double
@clever prawn which is why it pairs nice with artemis, because it doesn't outright make her useless on it anymore
plucky oxide
Remember when you had to consider whether or not to throw out sword special, because it locked you into place longer than bow special.
Sword special's come a long way
serene tinsel
does it not anymore? I remember sword special being fast but with a wait afterwards, so you had to time it as a finisher
lost rose
you can dash cancel out of the animation now but it still has a recovery time
unkempt pagoda
i'm pretty sure you can dash cancel it now
serene tinsel
huh
unkempt pagoda
granted, it also doesn't insta hit things in its circle anymore, so dash canceling has a cost
in that if you cancel too early, foes on the outer edges won't get hit
plucky oxide
Dash AND attack cancel out of it
Special attack attack special attack attack special
Absolutely nuts
serene tinsel
boy do I enjoy being a day 1 purchaser and not remembering how mechanics work
unkempt pagoda
empowering nova + flurry blade = 😩 👌
serene tinsel
actually I did a sword run relatively recently and had a lot of fun with that hammer effect that makes your third hit super powerful
unkempt pagoda
i bought it around the time lifestealer was bonked out, so i'm not ancient like some of these people
serene tinsel
sword is the only weapon that has a three-hit combo for it's attack so more emphasis on that unique part of it's moveset is cool
plucky oxide
I joined and won on like my fifth run with lifestealer. Felt a lil cheated but it's k no harm done. Would be much worse if it was still in the full game at launch.
clever prawn
@serene tinsel Yeah, what I like about the sword is that you can sort of design your own combos. Because you can interject the special anywhere in that chain.
I tend to do a dash attack, two hits from the combo, followed by the special. Unless, my boons change the setup to benefit a different style.
Makes it feel a bit like an action RPG, bringing some Devil May Cry into it.
toxic acorn
@tepid sentinel i think that's a problem with asphodel's large arenas, not the wave-makers. when the wave-makers are in a smaller arena (tartarus miniboss) they work pretty well.
but now that i'm reading your post a second time, i think a jump range decrease might help. the double jumps aren't really an issue, though. they usually don't jump farther away with their second jump, they're usually about the same distance away in another direction
tepid sentinel
yea but most of the areas are pretty sizeable and i just find it tedious and annoying to chase them after only hitting them twice
also my run before it was mostly them with armor and no other mobs lol oof
wheat elbow
I hope that the upcoming biom has a couple more tartaruslike rooms
in terms of size, that is.
Asphodel and Elysium are waaaaay too big for their own good.
"Having to search for enemies that haven't even noticed me while trying to speedrunning or getting Hermes Keepsake charges which is annoying" levels of big.
autumn vale
quick question: do keepsake effects persist after you've switched them between biodomes?
median ridge
they do not
autumn vale
cool cool thx for the quick answer!
turbid needle
Drop 37.5 Butterfly for Adamant Arrowhead in hopes of Hunting Blades (I've got the prereqs), yea or nay?
slow moth
Do buffs on attacks apply to the spear's spin attack and shield's bull rush too?
unkempt pagoda
yes
analog sail
I decided to make some unheated runs, give myself another taste of how normal difficulty is like.
The game decided to troll me I guess.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/550317561707888670/591624997479383040/Hades_00040.png
Killed T&A in about 45 seconds.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/550317561707888670/591624974834335757/Hades_00042.png
normal harness
I JUST PASSED THE GAME!!!! THANK YOU DO MUCH FOR THE HELP/TIPS
quick rune
Is Heartseeker Bow any good? I've tried to get it to work but it just seems not as good as the other weapons
I've beaten T&A with every other weapon except the bow
pastel jolt
to git gud with the bow you have to learn how the dash attack affects the charge timer
bow's actually the weapon i'm best with, which i feel like is a rarity on this discord lmao
quick rune
Yeah that's actually something I'm confused about. What's the dash attack for a bow???
And Theseus just dunks on bow users
pastel jolt
the dash attack makes it charge faster
just dash and then start charging right after, you can get a good feel for it in skelly's room
it's what makes artemis's dash so powerful for bow builds, because you should be dashing anyway to get the faster charge speed
quick rune
Interesting
Still doesn't improve your chances against Theseus though
Just blocks most thinga
Things
pastel jolt
so.... get behind him, or attack him when the shield is lowered, or get a piercing attack
i've beaten theseus multiple times with the bow, it's no harder than with other weapons
quick rune
I'll try the piercing approach, thanks
warm meteor
Which is better in turns on DPS, World Splitter, Cruel Thrust or Flurry Blade?
analog sail
World splitter works best with boons that buff your damage, so if you get a good Poseidon or Artemis attack boon you're set.
Flurry blade is good with Zeus or Dio and meh otherwise.
Cruel thrust works best with Artemis.
Overall I prefer Flurry but World Splitter tends to outperform it.
graceful bough
I've really found that Elysium enemies just aren't particularly fun to fight. More of a chore.
I guess it depends on the run.
placid violet
They have SO MUCH HEALTH. It feels like if you don't have a killer dps build it takes forever to fight them, but that might just be my perception?
graceful bough
It's been my experience the majority of runs.
errant narwhal
I found the more experience I have with the game, the more I manage to craft killer dps builds every time
pastel jolt
asterius and theseus have a combined hp pool of 29,000 without any reduction from asterius's miniboss
errant narwhal
ofc, there are bad rng runs, but I’ve been able to beat them consistently after one failed run since the elysium update
rugged apex
even if I don't manage it the skill gain helps a lot
just because like, I've done it before and all.
graceful bough
@pastel jolt To be fair, the reduction from the miniboss is not even noticeable.
errant narwhal
I actually think I died to them a total of 2 times? 🤔
pastel jolt
"not even noticeable"? it puts asterius and theseus on equivalent hp pools
or, close to it
graceful bough
It's not noticeable in the fight though.
errant narwhal
which is a bit frustrating because. I want to see the dialogue for dying to them and stuff. But my desire to prove myself Superior is stronger
graceful bough
It's so insignificant.
rugged apex
imo the reduction from the miniboss is not worth the time it takes to defeat asterius, though it might be worth it if the boon is strong or synergistic enough
errant narwhal
hunting blades
graceful bough
It's rare that a boon is worth fighting Asterius.
rugged apex
but I don't think it's worth it usually
graceful bough
It's rare that anything is worth fighting Asterius.
errant narwhal
I got hunting blades from asterius actually, I’m pretty sure
graceful bough
I just wanted to rest; not break the world. https://imgur.com/2aSm52Y
errant narwhal
I was hoping for the soul catcher boss bc I didn’t get to see it yet, but I guess it always comes first and asterius always comes second
graceful bough
(That's surprisingly easy to replicate. I'm almost surprised it was never discovered and patched out.)
errant narwhal
wheat elbow
@graceful bough Did you rattle the chair too hard?
gaunt pond
Damn. Hades found a foolproof way to keep you down. Game over man.
wheat elbow
On another note, I just had the ultimate blade rift run
Last bosses went down in less than thirty seconds.
Would have been around 10 seconds if these ridiculous impervious periods wouldn't exist
graceful bough
@errant narwhal how ya think I got the screenshot
turbid needle
Weird, I swear I've run into Asterius then Soul Catcher.
graceful bough
I very definitely have.
wheat elbow
@turbid needle I feel like one or two days after the update, they messed up the order on these rooms
It used to be consistently soul catcher first, then Asterius
Now it's whatever the hell it wants to be
and even Patroklus shows up at weird times on occassion
turbid needle
I don't mind, Asterius has become way easier to me after I learned to wait longer after his combos.
gaunt pond
I've only ever seen patroklus once.
turbid needle
Is there a set number (before he hits 50% and starts firing Wind Scars at 3 hits)?
gaunt pond
Not sure what triggers him
graceful bough
I get the option to see him almost every run.