try Ares with Dire Misfortune or Poseidon with Piercing
#h1-builds-and-combat
turbid needle
Hermes with special is also strong
goddammit, the habits are strong in this one
There's nothing left to strive for once you hit Asphodel because with rare exceptions, it's physically not possible to clear those three-wave encounters in 30 seconds.
Oooh it's definitely possible if you have the right boons. Given some Poseidon or Zeus offensive tech, and an Epic core boon, with the right respective weapons, most Asphodel chambers can be cleared mighty quickly.
Not to defend the feather, btw, because I def think it needs improvement
calm ember
Just tried my first Heat run with 25 heat. I suck. Couldn't even make it through Tartarus. lmao
calm ember
50% increased enemy dmg and the rest into reduced Darkness limit for mirror.
graceful jackal
What does the limit actually do?
calm ember
Lowers the total amount of Darkness you can invest into the mirror. Making you choose more carefully which perks you do in fact take.
graceful jackal
Oh..crapbaskets
calm ember
It's a little vague and I didn't quite understand it either.
At first. But the guys/gals here on Discord helped me understand it once I unlocked the Contract.
graceful jackal
Fair enough
calm ember
Am I seeing things or do you get a burst of Attack Speed after dashing with Rail?
pastel jolt
yes, that's the dash attack
calm ember
ah ok for the longest time I thought only a couple of the weapons actually had a dash attack as only a couple have an animation that shows as much.
pastel jolt
the only one that doesn't, so far as anyone's been able to tell, is the spear
pastel jolt
faster attack
calm ember
I just noticed the Rail.
calm ember
oh ok. That makes sense.
pastel jolt
i have not played with the shield in a long, long time
calm ember
Again proving why discord servers are so vital to games like this.
Aegis is one of my fav weapons.
You get Doom and 8 hit special with Athena Dash. You just throw and dash until the room/boss is clear.
I like Artemis' Wrath.
pastel jolt
i have actually played so infrequently with the shield that i haven't got a clear timer for it
calm ember
Clear timer?
pastel jolt
y'know, when you beat a run and then it shows you your stats?
it shows you how many times you've cleared with each weapon and your record time
except i don't have a record time with the shield, because both of the times i cleared using it were from before the game had a timer at all
calm ember
Oh
I've never beaten it entirely. I made it to Theseus for my first time today. I actually almost won. My adrenaline was so !?**ing high it was crazy. I haven't stopped playing since this afternoon. I'm on a Rail run right now.
I wish they could have a way that I could open this conversation in the game with an overlay like Geforce Experience without having to tab out. That would be super cool. Creature features are great.
calm ember
Wow you've beaten the game that many times?
pastel jolt
the full screen lists stuff liek how much darkness you used, how much heat you had active vs. your best heat total, your clear time vs. your record (i'm not sure if that one counts per weapon or overall), stuff like that
i've had the game since it was launched ;)
as you can see i have a favourite weapon
calm ember
I picked it up pretty close to launch too. However, I did not really start playing it until this patch. I messed around with it about 2-3 patches ago and I knew I liked it. I kept telling myself I needed to really dive into it but had several other games going on. I put a lot of time into Hollow Knight and Metro Exodus recently. But this new patch reminded me of it so I finally dove in.
pastel jolt
my main save file is sitting at..... i know i'm well over 100 attempts by now
calm ember
I'm not good with the bow at all.
pastel jolt
dangit, i can't check my attempts without going ingame and i'm too lazy
calm ember
The Stygian Blade and the Bow are my worst performing weapons. I haven't really figured out a good build for them.
pastel jolt
do you use a controller or mouse and keyboard? that might influence what weapons you're comfy with
part of the reason i have so few clears with the rail is that i use a controller, so the special is very unwieldy for me to use and thus it locks me out of half of the builds for it
calm ember
Controller mostly. I have played with mouse and keyboard before. I thought it would be easier to aim Rail with keyboard but it didn't feel right to me.
kindred mountain
interestingly, I use the controller and favor the rail. at first I disliked it but I focused on spacing to use max range special so I don't worry about "aiming" as much. Cleared it for the first time today and then again just now with rail.
elfin pulsar
the sword is really good IMO, though it can be nerve-wracking to use at first
once you get comfortable with bursting enemies down efficiently with some combo of dash attacks, swings, and specials it'll feel great
usually just dash>special kills everything in tarterus so I like getting a nice damage boost on it, like posiden or aphro
i do hate fighting the hydra with it though
next bison
hydra fight is pretty bad with sword since you have to be up in his face and there is little tell for his dash
elfin pulsar
exactly, always get clipped by it
dont think i've made it out of a sword hydra fight not getting hit by the dash at least once. usually 2-3
next bison
well, I do like to make sure I can get back to full hp from the floor up room (I forgot what it's called)
kind cloud
@pastel jolt
Your runs are much faster than mine. My fastest is 29 minutes.
calm ember
lol
elfin pulsar
didnt the run counts reset when beefy came out
or was it just the timers that reset
calm ember
How is it that I have been in and out of Elysium all day and I just now met this fella Patroclus?
Does he start showing up more or he really rare?
pastel jolt
ah, you're correct. the run timers reset but not the counts
it looks like i completed one run pre-timers, one shortly before the beefy update, and then i haven't cleared with the shield since
the benefits of obsessively screenshotting every clear screen you get ^^
kind cloud
@calm ember He shows up pretty frequently. He's the Elysium equivalent of Sisyphus from Tartarus. (To get him, always take the exclamation mark iirc.)
pearl willow
am i imagining things or has anyone else found that the shields block angle has been reduced? i took a number of hits that i was quite surprised connected
calm ember
Yep
No one has officially stated it as far as I know but I practically main Aegis and I've noticed taking hits I feel like I wouldn't have before.
wheat elbow
Last run I played with the shield, I did not use the LMB even once so I don't know.
rugged apex
@pseudo ocean it's not broken - it does work. however, it only works at a tiny fraction of the bow's range - basically right at the end of the projectile
pseudo ocean
I could only get it to work if the foe was off of the screen, like wayyyy on the other side of the map.
rugged apex
...so basically it is broken but in the sense of 'badly balanced' rather than 'bugged'
pseudo ocean
Yeah, it was really frustrating. I died to Theseus due to lack of DPS. wasted a hammer slot and build idea because I couldn't get it to work
rugged apex
right now it's pretty much a waste of a hammer, yeah. it's sucky.
pseudo ocean
Another thing I'm irritated about.. people have been complaining for months that charmed enemies are hitting Zag for hundreds of damage a swing. I took Aphrodite's wrath to play around with it and almost died to a charmed hydra head. Hit me for 100+
Not sure why this issue goes unaddressed. I basically had a really bad build tonight because of the aforementioned issues
wheat elbow
Okay, so I am stll not a big fan of the spear special, but let as assume that we would have these three boons
Athena special, highest rarity as possible of course, the boon that makes enemies suffer more damage from backstabs
and the hammer boon that makes your special deal extra damage and crit on the return
How much damage would spear deal on return if it were a crit?
autumn python
ares legendary + ares wrath effect feels like such an instant win
kind cloud
^ Yes, we were discussing that last night. I'm most impressed by Ares' Legendary (Vicious Cycle) because the damage increases so quickly.
autumn python
i just did another run trying to get it again... not only did I get Vicious cycle in Tartarus, i then got splitting bolt in asphodel... I felt soooo OP by the final fight
heady zephyr
vicious cycle is the one that increases blade rift damage per tick?
autumn python
yeah
kind cloud
I'm slightly jealous. I've never been that fortunate. The soonest I ever received a Legendary is in Asphodel.
But I learned last night how a player can engineer his (or her) build by selecting specific skills in succession.
heady zephyr
it's also crazy with the artemis/ares duo, since it perfectly tracks enemies
autumn python
I kinda figured that out, i havent figured everything out
heady zephyr
for extra overkill, get the artemis boon that doubles your projectiles too
whole raft
what was your blade rift trigger if you had aphrodite cast?
kind cloud
I've read a lot about the Artemis + Ares joint build as OP but I've yet to try it in 50 playthroughs.
autumn python
I like the Aphrodite artemis cast build honestly. especially if you can get hermes to make your cast full auto
just full auto shotgun
whole raft
I don't get what full auto means on that boon? just that a single click unloads them all?
heady zephyr
what good does artemis do for it, though? aphro cast doesn't track and it doesn't embed, does it?
@whole raft hold it down to cast all of them in a row with no recovery animation
autumn python
it does embed
autumn python
plus double casting it can hurt
heady zephyr
oh yeah double cast
autumn python
plus exit wounds + quick reload
and then your applying weak so much and just swinging for the fences with casts. I had one cast do 250+ damage
I wish i had thought to have shadow play going
heady zephyr
i do feel like the time before bloodstones return on their own should be reduced a bit
since caster builds are a bit too finicky without quick reload imo
whole raft
I did just discover how powerful that cast can be. Just had my first win 10 minutes ago, and scatter shot was a good part of it - hitting routinely for 220+
autumn python
@whole raft congrats on the clear
but yeah, quick reload is just a necessity on cast builds it feels like. but at the same time, most people say that hammers are a necessity on a lot of weapon builds and i have grown more and more against the hammers
heady zephyr
i think the difference is that you're almost guaranteed at least one hammer per run unless you actively avoid it
whereas there's no guarantee of quick reload appearing in a run where you get cast-buffed
plucky oxide
Getting creative with casts is fun. Like Poseidon cast runs, where the name of the game is to find some geometry near an enemy and spam your cast into it, resulting in the splash impact, but immediately giving you your cast back.
In my eyes, hammer upgrades should always be about opening up more variety in boon synergies to weapons. Sword flurry and the spear's equivalent are a good example of this.
Rail is best at executing on this concept.
Shotgun, sniper, fully automatic. Each feel different, and have their strengths.
Sword special and bow special really lack this variety.
plucky oxide
No, not from my experience.
kind cloud
Hunting Blades is OP with an Ares + Artemis build.; it makes the game way too easy. (I just watched a youtube video on this and I'm stunned.) I'm not sure how I haven't stumbled upon that combination before. Unreal.
plucky oxide
Yeah, this is known. The only con of hunting blades is the fact that optimizing its damage output can be difficult. Hunting blades flat out removes the only downside, and turns it into something amazing.
Been best duo boon for two updates now.
People thought Ares was in a bit of a weak spot, and in this newest update Ares received some insane quality of life buffs, that terrifying new legendary, and up-tuned damage.
Ares was pretty decent in my eyes before, but this update has turned him into one of the best picks in the game.
trim ingot
just my luck that he decides to never show up after the update :^)
plucky oxide
Keepsakes exist for a reason!
kind cloud
I thought Ares' Doom curse was awesome (especially Epic or Heroic tier) but this cast build is eye-opening. Wow.
heady zephyr
imo, artemis is probably the weakest now. when she's good, she's amazing, but it's easier to end up with a bum build for her than anyone else
plucky oxide
Time 2 Poseidon it up then, mischief
trim ingot
they had to cut out ways to reliably activate crits
plucky oxide
Artemis is awesome?
trim ingot
anything that was "do X get a crit" turns the entire strategy to "do X constantly"
heady zephyr
i agree, but also so are some of my weakest runs
kind cloud
As far as I can tell, the only downside of the Ares+Artemis cast build is the slow-moving rifts can be outmaneuvered by a quick shielded/armored opponent. So the player has to keep moving or dashing around.
trim ingot
although, idk, maybe "take damage get a crit" might be balanceable?
heady zephyr
artemis cast without quick reload is slow and finicky, artemis crit is much less useful on stuff like, say, sword nova (especially if you don't get the speed nova upgrade)
plucky oxide
Sword nova Artemis crit got me like, a 15 minute run
heady zephyr
maybe it's just me then
i usually roll pierced butterfly and i find it really tough to empower with sword nova
plucky oxide
Pierced butterfly's neat, but being able to choose 2 gods between two floors, and start elysium with 40% damage reduction is too good to pass up.
heady zephyr
pierced butterfly is good for balanced builds. if you end up focusing mostly on one attack, it's a bit of a waste since you'll have better bonuses for it anyway
plucky oxide
I like the flat damage up-tick, but I can't invest in a keepsake that needs to be in play for the entire run. I feel like 30-40% damage uptick can easily be found by securing some good synergies via god keepsakes. If butterfly's effect persisted past switch, I'd use it a ton more.
trim ingot
i'd be okay with letting you rack up the power-up without having it equipped
i don't know about retaining its power after unequipping it though
plucky oxide
?
trim ingot
some people have suggested that in feedback
that you keep the butterfly damage bonus after unequipping it
plucky oxide
The damage should persist after you unequip it, but you shouldn't be able to attain any more %, yeah.
Same with the dodge relic. I'd actually use it if I could retain it, but three floors to build up 30% dodge < 40% damage reduction from Achilles bracer
trim ingot
wonder if dodge chance is capped
plucky oxide
I'd personally really like to see the God keepsakes reworked to remove the RNG-anchoring boons. Artemis granting global crit chance in ways similar to Than's and Hermes' keepsake would be neat.
heady zephyr
how would that work with the others? ares could add a small global damage buff, but what would, eg, athena or poseidon keepsakes do?
plucky oxide
Dunno! It'd be hard to do for everyone. It's more my desire to remove the ability to 'gun' for a specific duo to add to your boon pool than anything else. I think players often naturally choose the path of least resistance, and eliminating odds feels very off... especially when there are so many flavors of build variety in this game.
I've seen people shy away from weapons, gods, and other content because, at least in their eyes, it's not as good as the thing that's carried them through the game a few times.
heady zephyr
they could maybe add weaker versions of the god effects. instead of knockback, the poseidon keepsake could add stagger on regular attacks, and the athena one could add block, but not deflect, on attacks
plucky oxide
I won't deny that some builds have much more niche requirements that are Out There to see viability, but I've yet to find a weapon input in this current update that doesn't feel viable
charred ruin
has anyone finished a 120 run in the current patch yet?
wheat elbow
Don't think I did, have played mostly non-heated runs thus far
What dash-boons are the best overall, in order
Aphrodite ranks fairly high, who else?
light nova
How to survive Poseidon Trial of the Gods? Is it even possible to avoid that water attack? I'm plaing on 90 heat and wave hits on 42 damage.
Only once i could survive because i had super luck for boons. And even then was close to see Zag's brother, if you know what i mean.
wheat elbow
I get what you mean. Your boons were so strong that the game became boring to the point where you almost would have fallen asleep
meeting Hypnos
lost rose
looks like your link doesn't work
hidden swan
where i can upload
hidden swan
lost rose
ah, the hydra
lost rose
Focus on one head at a time. Taking one out will give you some space to move around and take the others out
pastel jolt
tip for the hydra: if you look at the lava, you'll see splashes where the heads will spawn in
didn't notice that until recently actually
they're fairly big splashes, too, a little taller than zag i'd say?
grand patrol
something thats helped me a lot is the dionysus cast! level it up, stand back, and bomb the main head from afar durning its alone phases
yeah!
hidden swan
thanks
stable oyster
makes you think twice about getting two boons doesn'tit😜
turbid needle
There's making it challenging and there's being too punishing. Ares and Dionysus are too much.
Seriously, look at that. How is a melee build supposed to get anywhere near that?
The Bone Hydra needs to stop launching attacks after you kill the last head in a phase. Five seconds after I killed one in my run right now and it launched a volley while still Impervious.
analog sail
The windup for the shots is very long and it can begin doing it as you kill the last head then begin the attack 3 seconds later.
turbid needle
Not what I mean.
It will be doing its little snakecharmer dance and then rear back to fire its shots. Supergiant has done a fantastic job with telegraphing animations and there's a big difference between its idle state and when it's rearing back for an attack.
stable oyster
so then dont use the rooms
the room gives you the chance to gain 2 boons, which is extremely powerful, if you can clear an extremely hard room
don't see what the issue is
analog sail
I never ran into that I think. It might be that its queue of actions is a bit funky, like the furies' are.
Like the action "roar" that toggles his invulnerability isn't called when the heads are dead but every second or so and it can queue another action before then
stable oyster
most glaring is when it has a ranged attack queued
analog sail
Yeah
whole raft
Hydra does have an issue with staying impervious at inconsistent lengths of time after the last head kill though... not reported, but on a run last night where I was only doing so so, I should have gotten a kill without using a death defiance when triggering Zeus Epic wrath, but because he stayed imperivous too long and I needed to stand close, a few hits missed , and that made the difference
turbid needle
The other boss that has consistency issues is Theseus. The varying charge time on his spear throw is really really egregious, especially if Asterius goes down first and the crosshair stops turning red before he throws it.
Will he charge for five seconds while littering the floor with Olympian attacks? Will he fire it in .75 while doing the same? You don't know, hope you have Divine Dash, Wisdom of the Goddess, and Divine Flourish like I did on this last run.
(I still ate several spears)
whole raft
that fight is still a bit chaotic for me. My first clear last night was dumb luck with a patched together set of boons (mostly aphrodite and DoomAres)
I just dash around, focus on Asterius, and hope for the best.
ate tons of spears despite using the shield too
turbid needle
Every other boss I feel like can be "solved" right now, even the solo Asterius fight. Theseus is a crapshoot.
whole raft
and divine dash
turbid needle
I am fully on-board with Zag's Theseus hate boner.
whole raft
Solo Asterius is okay. Soul Catcher is... well I hate the soul catchers even in normal rooms
seriously, screw those guys.
turbid needle
I had a Dashing Wallop and Epic Hunter Dash run last week and was earning Lambent Plume procs into Elysium, including on the Soul Catcher fight.
granite fiber
after getting 5 dashes (courtesy of Hermes), invincibility on dash (Athena), and shield,
I could breeze through most chambers (even in Elysium) with ease just spamming dash-attack-dash-attack-dash-attack..., because it seems like dashing resets the attack cooldown of the shield and with Athena's boom you're invincible most of the time while doing it.
Either it is OP or I was especially skillful today.
turbid needle
But that's a very powerful run and not at all the usual.
I haven't had the fortune to get Greatest Reflex since they buffed it.
wheat elbow
I did, it's glorious. Only got two extra dashes out of it though
On another note, anyone interested in how a run where you only use the shield special would look like?
blazing cobalt
Dio shield special has been my most consistent build thus far
vale sphinx
Isn’t the point of Bow shotgun that all the projectiles hit the same target?
Seems kinda counter-intuitive to push people away
south comet
ive only done it once before with poseidon but it turned out pretty well
i think as long as you have them near a wall it probly works fine
asphodel might be a pain
but i just got 3 poms in a row so. woo!
turbid needle
Asphodel is fine if you have rupture
wheat elbow
Rupture is amazing
turbid needle
Use AoE like the blades or rail special
turbid needle
The best fight I ever had against him was with Aphrodite's cast, 6 bloodstones, and an insta-cast from Hermes. I was able to hit him in between all the moments he's vulnerable
graceful jackal
The only run I've won was with the rail; Artemis's special + crit, triple special, and 3 dashes from hermes
kind cloud
The Trial rooms aren't worth it anymore imo. The person you don't pick takes a chunk of health and gives the player common boons. No thanks.
plucky oxide
I personally pick trial rooms for new reasons now
I find the second boon I pick up to be a great way to 'fill' a slot, to reduce my boon pool from future selections.
Let's say I've got a great special build going, and the last thing I want to see on boons is an attack move (when I haven't touched the Attack button in quite some time). I'll pick up the Attack boon from the god I don't favor, to better my odds of finding value from gods later on.
In that way, the common boon still does feel like it has some value.
kind cloud
I've considered and tried that strategy but I'm not convinced it works. The game has a way of not giving me what I want in key spots. (Maybe I'm simply bad at picking.)
plucky oxide
Rng is inherently... random. It's in the name. Sometimes you're dealt a bad hand, but actively disregarding the elements that make up the randomness is bad form. There's a reason poker is competitive, and that's because even odds can be gamified.
Part of rng based runs like Isaac or Hades is your ability to look beyond 'I really want this, I hope I get this one combo' and to look at the value of a boon in as many scenarios as possible. Adapting to what you've been given will take you much farther than praying for a duo boon. Of course, there's a healthy balance between trajectory and the actual course you have to navigate.
kind cloud
I understand the value of optimizing what I get/receive. I work in data analytics and it's an essential aspect of my job.
plucky oxide
If I had an Ares cast run, with a lot of ares boons, I would try to take as many of the five main-stay boons as I can from other gods before hitting up Artemis, because her secondary boons are so much more powerful. It's less about 'darn I didn't get Artemis the entire floor' and more about, 'hey, now I can take Artemis keepsake and practically guarantee myself a cast related boon'.
tired light
Patch Notes: "Chariot reinforcements reduced to one at a time"
They SPAWN only one at a time or there's only supposed to be one OUT at a time?
plucky oxide
I believe they work more like the dusas do in Asterius' room.
tired light
... then what was the change?
plucky oxide
They don't throw a ton of chariots at you at once
kind cloud
@plucky oxide
Perhaps it's the small sample size but I find Artemis to be the most unreliable. When I do playthroughs, I try to fill up all 5 slots (attack, special, dash, cast, wrath) but she rarely gives me one of her elite boons.
Again, it's plausible I'm bad at engineering cast boons. On the other hand, I feel quite comfortable building with anyone else.
plucky oxide
Elite boons?
tired light
I guess it's less but it doesn't really feel that way - I'm definitely still dodging 4 or more at a time in the second half of the fight...
kind cloud
@plucky oxide
I keep getting Rare versions of Hunter's Mark.
plucky oxide
Hunters mark is her debuff, right? That means you've taken her crit at some point.
If you didn't take her crit, you'd inherently see less of her debuff
kind cloud
"Your Critical effects also make foes Marked for 2.5s"
Barbs of the Master Huntress is the other ability I frequently receive.
plucky oxide
That's because it's part of the base pool
Which is something I'm not really fond of
The Boon itself is amazing though. Best wrath in the game imo
kind cloud
"Best wrath in the game"
What makes you say that?
plucky oxide
Ability to pierce through shield
hidden swan
what version u guys playing
plucky oxide
Standing away from hydra and using it results in a skipped phase
Nukes health in seconds
The current build, ayaya
kind cloud
I can get through Hydra comfortably with any combination of weapon + boons. My concern is about the 3rd boss fight (Theseus and Minotaur - specifically Theseus).
plucky oxide
And Barb's go through shields
Just have to make sure it doesn't go into their barrier phases
rugged apex
barbs also has wild damage scaling
if you're decently far away it's something like 400 per barb
kind cloud
I'm not a long-range player so I haven't noticed the damage scaling on Artemis' Barbs.
I find Ares' Wrath + Vicious Cycle to be the best wrath in the game.
plucky oxide
Unless you have the reapplying curse I find a huge drop in value after the first tick
And that's about four boons required in comparison to a single Artemis wrath
Two dashes away is also more than enough distance to pop your Artemis wrath
kind cloud
My builds are hodge podges. My preferred build is something like:
Weapon: Stygian Blade
Attack: Ares
Special: Athena / Ares
Dash: Ares / Artemis / Zeus / Dionysus
Cast: Athena / Dionysus
Wrath: Ares
I like to think I'm good at diversifying when necessary.
plucky oxide
Stygian Blade, special variant
Floor 1: Artemis keepsake
-preferred find: special (required)
Floor 2: Aphrodite keepsake
-preferred find: dash (will work with Attack)
Floor 3: Achille's Bracer
Preferred Hammers: Double nova + larger radius
Additional debuffs (1 needed): Artemis (from crit), Dio (attack or dash), Ares (attack)
Nice to haves: Additional crit modifiers, defense stacking, weakness bolstering
If Artemis doesn't give me special at the beginning, I take her wrath as second priority and switch up playstyle from there
Not only does the damage reduction result in a near-guaranteed win, it has also earned me 15 minute runs a few times over now.
Shield, special variant
Floor 1: Ares keepsake
-preferred find: special (required)
Floor 2: Aphrodite keepsake
-preferred find: dash (will kind of work with Attack, with correct hammers)
Floor 3: Achille's Bracer, additional God keepsake, or Damage Amplifier
Preferred Hammers: Faster returns speeds, not entirely necessary. AOE upon shield return for better application of curse. Bigger aoe dash attack to better apply attack debuff (if any)
Additional rebuffs: none required
Nice to haves: weakness bolstering
This ones super easy because it only really requires two boons to be effective
real kindle
First time I beat the game!
I bought it yesterday but I was already confortable with the controls because of Gungeon. Great stress reliever for my exams lol
rugged apex
good job!
real kindle
Thanks lol that duo boon is insane
grand patrol
yeaaaah!!! 🏆
trim ingot
i'd like to thank piercing barrage
kind cloud
@plucky oxide
Thank you for typing all that. I'll try those builds.
plucky oxide
Np! 👌
I kind of want Hermes to have an on-dodge boon once you've gotten his dodge related boon. Something like globally increasing attack and special speed for a tiny bit. It'd make the keepsake feel a lot more worthwhile to run. But Hermes himself is far too fickle to build around, imo.
But also, the reason retaliation boons feel so bad is that they rely on the notion of getting hit.
heady zephyr
i honestly would never build around dodge at all since it's not guaranteed
plucky oxide
I mean, we can go dig up forums of MMO tanks and point at these debates.
Damage reduction vs Dodge chance Tanks is a notorious discussion.
Dodge chance is something that I feel is only useful when it's incredibly high. Like, incredibly incredibly high.
heady zephyr
yeah, but that's in an MMO that doesn't already have an active dodge
i mean i don't mind dodge as a % thing but i just treat it as a last layer of defense, ilke the dionysus boon that reduces damage below a health threshold
pastel jolt
i mean, the way i see it, the main benefit of hermes' keepsake is the movespeed; the dodge is just another nice thing to have too
pastel jolt
i'd like it if it was more noticeable when the dodge happened, just so it felt better
plucky oxide
I'd rather the dodge exist for X seconds after dashing, and be a much higher value.
plucky oxide
Sounds great!
heady zephyr
i'd just prefer if the hermes keepsake was changed to stack movement speed rather than dodge chance maybe
plucky oxide
We already have a 40% damage reduction keepsake.
heady zephyr
maybe a +1% speed to all attacks per encounter cleared?
plucky oxide
If the first .5 seconds after dodging had a high dodge chance, that'd be awesome.
pastel jolt
was changed to stack movement speed rather than dodge chance it... already does move speed?
plucky oxide
Key word in that phrase is movement
heady zephyr
yeah i meant to say movement and attack speed, mb
pastel jolt
i don't get what you're saying there pause
plucky oxide
Movement speed is different than attack speed and special speed
What sunn was saying is speed, as in all forms of it. Movement, attack, and special. The quote you pulled specifically stated movement speed. Hence why I pointed out the word to clarify the difference, and answer your above question.
rugged apex
this run was hot. too many dashes! my thumb dislikes me now. https://i.imgur.com/bLijNFT.jpg
plucky oxide
Gosh that looks like fun. Nice!!
turbid needle
Jesus, 28 straight?
rugged apex
imo blade is the best weapon, simply because it has the best flow - at no point is it fighting you , controlwise.
which means you can focus on going ham and remembering to time your dodges properly.
turbid needle
that’s a lot of top tier boons 
rugged apex
good boons definitely help but they're not everything. well, except aphrodite's weak boons, all of those are super dumb and let you really destroy theseus and asterius.
turbid needle
I haven't picked up her Cast since it was changed. I should try aiming for her next time I play.
rugged apex
her cast's pretty okay now. good damage, at least, and it applies weak.
plucky oxide
With Hermes upgrade it melts I love it
rugged apex
(imo the best weak boons are wave of despair, passion dash, and depending on weapon either heartbreak strike or flourish)
turbid needle
Passion Dash is my favorite Dash Boon.
rugged apex
(Wait, That's All Of Them)
turbid needle
No, wait.
I forgot about Divine Dash.
Does it ignore enemy shields like Blade Rifts do?
rugged apex
I don't remember offhand. I don't think so?
rugged apex
I don't believe it does, no.
plucky oxide
No it doesn't
But it's animation frames are better than they once were
And with Hermes autocast it's a force to reckon with
Aphro and Ares are strong right now
Aphro weakness does so much for so little, and then once you start investing in it it keeps getting better
rare salmon
I just started playing a few days ago - haven't beaten the hydra yet, but this gives me some level of hope 😃
plucky oxide
you'll get there! keep at it!
rare salmon
I feel like to do it, I should pick a weapon and focus on a specific build
But I haven't figured out what to try for yet 😃
rare salmon
@plucky oxide I actually just got it on my VERY next run! Spear, the Hammer's +50% Special damage, +50% critical on return upgrade plus Zeus' Lightning Bolts on Special and Chaos' +special damage. Couple that with attacks and dashing both Deflecting, and I was able to stay alive just barely long enough.
I mean, I died like 4 or 5 chambers later. But I made it through anyway! 😃
tired light
I'm getting the strange feeling Hermes' Rapid Cast doesn't work with Tipsy Shot... can anyone confirm?
plucky oxide
Nice!!! Keep that up! There are SO many synergies in this game.
I think the automatic spam was already pretty fast on dio's cast, wirker.
The synergy isnt all that great, all things considered
tired light
When I read "fully auto" I expected to be able to just hold the button down and get multiple fires. Is that what you get?
'cause when I hold the button down, I just get the targeting circle
plucky oxide
you're playing on controller, yes? I assume its a bit less clunky on kb+m
limber copper
Hey, does anyone know if there is any consistency or clues in getting gold from pillars in Asphodel?
tired light
mouse actually @plucky oxide
normally I have cast as right click, but I tried a key just in case and it was no different
lost rose
@limber copper there's a spawn wave cutoff; try to destroy them as early as possible
limber copper
I thought something like that was going on, is it like 25% chance or something?
Also @tired light, there is someone in feedback who said the same thing
tired light
was just reading through there, must've missed it
lost rose
I don't think it's a percent chance so much as it is "after the second wave of spawns you can't get gold from the pillars anymore"
but don't quote me on that, i've never confirmed it
tired light
@limber copper ty, found it and upvoted
heady zephyr
hey, if you get a boon that adds, eg- damage to your special, does that also affect secondary damage that the special procs?
like poison or doom?
plucky oxide
I do not believe so, no
unkempt pagoda
fixed damage stays fixed
heady zephyr
ah, sad
next bison
totally didn't steal my newest feedback idea from Risk of Rain's "Ocular Hud"
lime ingot
holy snap this was strong
i had both the duo boon from artemis + ares AND ares + aphrodite
lost rose
dang
lime ingot
also empowering nova
lost rose
lime ingot
and double nova lol
lost rose
i feel like when i try to go after broken builds it doesn't work out but sometimes they just land in your lap
lime ingot
LOL i know what you mean
xD
i wasn't even looking
it just happened
i discovered by accident how broken this was lmao
lost rose
rngesus chaos can tell when i'm making an Effort and they don't appreciate it
lime ingot
LOL
plucky oxide
Oh man I've been trying to get that run for so long
Sword flurry + attack deflect + special curse + weakness dash + those two duo boons is an absolute dream of mine to get one day
bright raven
Is knockback supposed to stack? I had shield + poseiden attack, and enemies were flying like 3 screens away when I hit them.
slow moth
I think it's intentional, IIRC it's been that way since the shield was released
slow moth
Yea lol, it's ridiculous, especially on Erebus (less so now that they reduced lava damage)
tough echo
Regarding Hermes boons...
Is it possible for any kind of Duo Boons between him and the rest of the Olympians?
lost rose
Not currently
Hermes boons don't work the same way as other Olympian boons; they're more like daedalus hammers
lost rose
yep
tough echo
And story wise, he seems kindda secretive and quiet about him helping Zag. None of the other Olympian actually adresses him at Zag.
tough echo
There's a limit of how many Hermes boons you can take?
tough echo
Welp. If that's the case, then 8 Duo Boons down and 13 more to go.
runic helm
there was a time, not long ago, when if you had rail, the upgrade from daedalus that split your attacks and possidon's attack boon, you would literally send the enemies on the far edge of the map if u hit them at point black
because the knockback from all the 5 shots stacked and worked additively
now THAT was a proper shotgun
tough echo
Intriguing. Gonna try that next time it pop out. Thanks Cristos~
If you have Sea Storm (Zeus X Poseidon)?
hollow loom
Good God
light nova
Dealing so much damage i cant say how fast boss died
hollow loom
The duo doesn't sound bad either, depending on the weak application you have
light nova
I dont like it. Too dangerous to come close to monsters on 105 heat
If i've got Aphrodite's special i'd take it
I also wanna ask: how many times you (i mean everyone who want to answer :D) could take Athena's legendary?
I didn't see it ever
karmic delta
damm that legendary spunds op
light nova
@karmic delta you are talking about legendary of Ares?
tough echo
Damn 105 heat.
light nova
Hard only at last levels cause of guys with spears
Very hard 0_0
Ah yea, and you must escape Trial because it's impossible now
light nova
The same with sword
heady zephyr
ares legendary with ares/athena duo is legit op
analog sail
I have never seen the Athena Legendary. Does it have some wierd prerequisites?
green birch
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Athena#Boon_Progression this should help?
analog sail
No, it doesn't seem to, she's just real picky about it I guess
green birch
To get the legendary (Divine Protection) you need Brilliant Riposte or Blinding flash. To get either of those you need one of the following: Divine Strike, Divine Flourish, Divine Dash, or Holy Shield. Even with Brilliant Riposte or Blinding Flash though there's no guarantee she'll offer you the legendary.
analog sail
Yeah, but I've been picking blinding flash a lot and I didn't see it. It's really wierd considering I have seen all other Legendaries.
Except for Dio cause I never pick festive fog.
placid silo
and two Chaos boons with more coins
rare salmon
From Screenshots like this, is it possible to tell which weapon is in use? In this case, you can see the Shield, but looking at Glyde's post from earlier today, I can't tell the weapon.
median ridge
on the right hand there is a weapon list. the currently used weapon is in bold text
green birch
yes in Glyde's post they used the Stygian Blade, since it's at the top it's easy to miss though aha!
green birch
You’ll get there someday! I believe it!
wheat elbow
Oh so THAT's what Ares' legendary does
not gonna lie, that's pretty strong'ish
Only if you use it with hunting blades or the wrath though.
Blade Dash doesn't last that long
plucky oxide
With the right setup it's absolutely insane. Really powerful. Personally don't like assuming I'll get a legendary for my builds, but it's definitely a dps-pusher.
rare salmon
Do Legendaries require three previous boons from the same god, or can they be the third boon you get?
pastel jolt
could be, if you got very lucky
rare salmon
So you could get Blade Dash, then Engulfing Vortex, then Vicious Cycle?
pastel jolt
you could!
wheat elbow
So I did a run with a focus on blade rifts.
I did not get hunting blades, sadly, but
I managed to get my blade rifts deal over a 100 damage per tick
Imagine having Ares' Blade Dash and Mercuries dash that makes enemies slow
You just dash through them repeadedly without them being able to act while your blade rift just stacks up
Or, if it's a stationary enemy like the soul catcher
you just throw out 6 Slicing Shots and see what happens
native ether
On Athena's wrath (see #hades-feedback), I think it's a fair trade off considering her Wrath is probably the least damaging out of all of the wraths.
You sacrifice major damage when you run it.
trim ingot
depends on the build i can't really get a lot of damage off during athena wrath
with slower builds like bow special, gun special or shield bull rush
native ether
I think as well things that generally encourage sloppier play get less viable the more you play. Like the Dog Collar for example. It's really good, but if you just run it all the time you're sacrificing good potential with your keepsakes.
wheat elbow
It's true.
I used Dog Collar exclusively when I started playing.
Switched to Myrmidon Bracer later on
trim ingot
it's good before you have the mirror health upgrades
wheat elbow
These two are good, but they fall into that category I like to call "Play to not lose, not to win"
trim ingot
don't you know that's encouraging bad behaviour? :p
wheat elbow
My most used keepsakes these days are Skull Earring and the coin purse
it can be argued that Skull Earring rewards bad play, which is also questionable, so let us put that to the side.
trim ingot
the whole idea of "rewarding bad play" is questionable imo
unless it... makes you more likely to lose? trivializes the game?
wheat elbow
I mean, if we go with what the game is all about, it's killing enemies without them killing you.
The better you get at the former while keeping the latter in mind, the better you are at the game, arguably.
Collar and bracer make it less likely for enemies to kill you, but not because you are a better player but because you just became harder to kill by default
which can end up make you play more sloppy.
Skull Earring encourages you to take damage, bringing you closer to deaths door
trim ingot
i mean if you have crazy damage output that you can just outmatch bosses in a DPS race that's not a 'fun' way to play either
wheat elbow
This can be a level of skill if you purposely balance that level of health to increase your efficiancy
I mean, fun isn't even what I was talking about, I was looking at this from a skill level exclusively.
That aside, fun is highly subjective, but I'd say that for most people, winning is fun
And given how Thesseus and Asterius stomp the grounds with most people on their first visits, I'd wager that getting to stomp them will leave a lot of people highly satisfied.
rugged apex
I do try to intentionally set up my builds so I can DPS race T&A - if you put out enough damage they really can't do anything, accounting for how often you can dodge.
trim ingot
but even skill is subjective, is the epitome of skill speedrunning, or insanely high heat?
or winning with the crappiest unlucky builds imaginable?
native ether
I still think the dog collar is very good to swap to in the last minute of Elysium, especially if I need a heal or need the extra health. Since I play rail builds a lot, I don't like the Bracer. I get hit from behind a lot.
wheat elbow
I'd like to think it's both.
@native ether That depends on your max health, doesn't it?
native ether
Patroclus's spear is my preferred defensive go to.
wheat elbow
Most of the time, I go with 200iish health and 3 second chances into elysium
native ether
It's a 60 health heal and addition to my health. Any health gained is a heal in my book.
Most commonly though I've been running Distant Memory in Elysium. Extra damage helps the Rail.
trim ingot
i want to see just one person swear by the shattered shackle
then i can cross that off on my bingo sheet
wheat elbow
Shattered Shackle, which one is that again?
trim ingot
where's the shackle too op pls nerf suggestion
native ether
Shattered Shackle would be ludicrous if it worked on Traps as well as Pillars.
wheat elbow
Ah, that one.
native ether
I would take it every time in Elysium.
wheat elbow
Here is how to make shattered shackle better
Have it work on traps as well
put more traps and pillars in boss rooms
trim ingot
hell have it work on wallslams
native ether
Shackle working on all environment damage would be amazing.
wheat elbow
It's decent in tartarus because the rooms are small and there are a lot of pillars
also, Megs and Alectos Boss fight rooms have pillars
native ether
It would make it good for sea uncle builds and just Elysium in general.
trim ingot
meg does occasionally step on a trap
light nova
@analog sail @green birch in wiki said that legendary of Athena can be taken only with Brilliant Riposte. That's why you, Thunder the Bright, never saw it. I did special run right now to see it first time 😄
And i get it as u can see
Worth it. Even after taking useless riposte.
bright raven
Does anyone know if Athena dash upgrade (ie deflect on dash) gives you longer invincibility for the dash? It FEELS like it, but I'm not sure. I had a run with Athena dash + Hermes extra dash and I felt nearly invincible. Just spammed dash attacks to win. Even on the boss... I took damage, but not a lot, just hammering dash mindlessly back and forth over both minotaur/theseus.
pastel jolt
yeah, blinding flash won't lead into athena's legendary
light nova
@bright raven it shouldn't. It would be too powerfull
green birch
Oh? My mistake then
plucky oxide
If Achilles bracer is bad play then so is any health restoring item, keepsake, or invulnerability/reduction boon like Athena's wrath.
Achilles bracer allows me to 'go all out' on base heat, and maximize my dps output while also securing my run. It's not like I stop caring about taking damage. I do think the damage mitigation values are too high.
wheat elbow
It really isn't.
It's one of my favorites.
But saying that you purposely stop caring about getting hit is what I meant about "promoting bad play"
I do get why it's fun, I love being a juggernaut myself.
plucky oxide
"It's not like I stop caring about taking damage"
wheat elbow
I also noticed the......what is the english word for writing letters tilted?
"Kursiv" is the german word for it
I noticed that you wrote "stop" that way, so I took what you said there with a grain of salt.
green birch
italics
wheat elbow
Thank you
plucky oxide
Underscore or * on either side to achieve an italics effect
wheat elbow
I though hispanics sounded wrong in this context
New it was something that sounded similiar to a country though
*knew
green birch
oof, Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a country
but besides that, how have runs been going for folks lately
plucky oxide
Trying to get every weapon down to 15 minute clear speed! Got shield and sword done. Now it's time for the others, which are sitting at ~17 minutes.
Aphro cast is amazing!!!
green birch
nice!
plucky oxide
It feels so different with Hermes' automatic fire
wheat elbow
Automatic Shotgun
green birch
I'm still trying to clear with every weapon ahaha
wheat elbow
I had it deal 300 damage per shot, I shotgunned it, killed an enemy with it, picked the pieces up and did the same to the next fool.
Of course, that build fell off as soon as bosses were included
plucky oxide
I LOVED the empowering hammer upgrade on rail's special
It works with casts 👀
One of the ONLY hammer upgrades that augments cast!!!
wheat elbow
It's true. It's great.
Even if we leave the numbers aside, Aphrodites cast is arguably one of the best casts you can get just by design.
Deals good damage, easy to hit multiple enemies with, the bloodstone will drop off close to where you are if you miss by some miracle and, most importantly
it's the only cast in the game that also gives you a negative status.
The more I look at Aphrodite the more I consider her to be a "one hit wonder". All of her main boons work amazingly on their own, with only a very few exceptions.
Her Wrath and her legendary, urgh
vale sphinx
(Sorry offtopic question: Is the Rail’s hammer that gives you three charges of the special supposed to be so insanely op? I remember back when it was a spread it was kinda reasonable but now it’s just 0-0)
wheat elbow
I did not see this spread special thing. Must have been before my time I suppose.
Tripple Bomb is very very strong and I love it.
plucky oxide
The three and the spread were first around. The three was really awful back then, because of how bad the animation is. The spread was removed, but the triple bomb received massive buffs to animation speeds.
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, that reminds me
Mercury making specials faster with his boons
it actually makes the cast time of the rail special shorter, but only so much that you can throw out a second one before the first one has landed.
plucky oxide
Triple bomb is incredibly good because none of them receive a damage penalty, so you're essentially getting a boon that says "Special now does 300% damage" with no downsides
native ether
not to mention you can apply stacks of debuffs multiple times
especially blight wine
or take advantage of crit chance and marked
in a pinch its also not bad with deflect
especially if you combine it with invigorating blast
plucky oxide
It's far too strong, but I mean, Im also of the mind that duo special on sword is a bit ridiculous as well.
wheat elbow
Oh yeah, big time.
native ether
The Rail's upgrades are all very strong, which I think is fair considering I think the rail is the weakest weapon without upgrades.
wheat elbow
I'd say that sword special is a bit better because it's more consistent.
If you hit sword special, you will hit. Rail special, enemies can run out of.
plucky oxide
Aye^
native ether
You can use the rail primary fire to slow an enemy down to keep them in the blast, I don't think many people know that. It doesn't stagger but there is still a hit animation which slows them down.
plucky oxide
I find rail suits those who don't want to get into a fight and take a risk, though. It's taken a lot of people through the game.
You can also take triple with the stagger upgrade, and that'll do wonders for kiting and accuracy
native ether
I genuinely believe the rail is the best weapon in the game. I find it the most versatile, besides maybe the spear (and I think the spear's upgrades are all pretty meh)
wheat elbow
@native ether Even better
plucky oxide
I find it definitely has the best hammers
wheat elbow
through out a cast.
That actually applies hit stun (and will make the special hit harder)
native ether
im right here no need to pong lol but yes you rite
plucky oxide
But I still think sword feels the best out of the entire cast. Best flow. A lot of styles that allow me to use both Attack and cast.
native ether
The sword feels the best but waow do you take a lot of damage if you're not careful with it
wheat elbow
Sword feels amazing because it is the best weapon to weave attack, special and dash attacks together
Most other weapons feel like you are penalizing yourself if you mix it up too much.
plucky oxide
Spear is incredibly lacking in comparison
wheat elbow
Spear makes me feel like I am doing it wrong unless I am charge-dashing
plucky oxide
And bow is seriously tricky to even learn how to use effectively
native ether
I think all the weapons in Hades are very well balanced though. I dont find any of them feel weak, and I don't find any that feel way too good. Like I hate the bow, but there are people here who swear by the thing, and I know its pretty good. I just don't like being slow.
wheat elbow
Shield is usually either charge dash or dash attack
Or, if you are one of these guys, shield throw spam if it explodes
native ether
I think the Shield is the biggest "noob friendly weapon" / "high heat weapon of choice" though because its very defensive and good at preventing mistakes.
wheat elbow
And bow is usually just dash attack attacking
Shield is the safest weapon by far.
The shield block is super strong and you can just back seat and throw the special repeadedly.
native ether
You can use the shield very easily as a crutch with how many defensive options it gives you. Its also very crucial to have that block the more heat you use.
wheat elbow
It's true.
There is also the factor of hammers.
Bow is a great weapon because there are next to no bad hammer upgrades
Except for maybe one or two, all of them get me excited
native ether
that being said, I don't think its too powerful. All the other weapons offer either way more versatility (the rail has outstanding AoE and CC, the spear has strong melee and strong ranged poke, the sword has incredibly melee and displacement, and the bow has some very good ranged damage)
wheat elbow
Yeah, all the weapons are fairly strong.
native ether
I would love to (personally) see more hammer upgrades but thats mainly just cause i memorized all of the current ones atm :p
wheat elbow
Spear legitimately is the only one I think could use a push
Hammer boons and the special need some work.
plucky oxide
I think shield doesn't need as much invincibility as it does. Rather, I don't think the quicker charge dash should be in the game. But hey, I'll take the free wins.
wheat elbow
Last update, they buffed one of the hammer boons for the spear that really did not need it
native ether
Interestingly enough I think the spear's hammers are meh, but the spear itself I find the most versatile and favored weapon without a hammer
you have strong staggering melee
and you have really good ranged damage
all in 1
plucky oxide
Spear special is a unique ranged weapon with a fun play style for something so spammy (in comparison to sword special)
wheat elbow
I feel like that is where opinions clash.
plucky oxide
But it lacks the same 'weaving' as sword
wheat elbow
I think the spear special is clunky
Then again, I think the same about the charge attack
native ether
most of the spear's upgrades I find are pretty meh though. I find not getting Flurry Jab and Vicious Skewer actively actually hurts me in a run.
Since I don't use the spin attack, too immobile for me.
And Multiskewer and Explosive Launcher just make me lose damage.
plucky oxide
Viscious skewer is a must. Faster spin attack upgrades are a must.
wheat elbow
Chain-Spear Throw is amazing room clear
native ether
I just prefer flurry jab, stacks well with crits, zeus, and dio
plucky oxide
SHIELD special ricochet does what chain spear tries better
native ether
I actually hate (ok hate is a strong word, dislike) the chain spear throw, the spear never ends up where I want it to be for a backstab.
wheat elbow
Backstabs are overrated
plucky oxide
Backstab is how you're suppo-
wheat elbow
So let's play a small game of calculation
plucky oxide
Oh okay :)
native ether
not at 50% base damage they aren't LUL
wheat elbow
Assuming you have the regular spear hrow special
You get Athena and her debuff for higher damage + more back stab damage
and you also get the hammer boon that increases damage and gives the call back a crit chance
for how much would the returning spear hit?
plucky oxide
Artemis crit spear special viscious skewer with Athena
native ether
your mistake is assuming I would take the Athena deflect on my special
Take artemis
Triple your damage output
counting the backstab
And Vicious Skewer
plucky oxide
Plus deadly reversal from Athena dash and wow, nice
native ether
You'll break all Elysium armor in 1 hit
plucky oxide
That's a choice run 👌
wheat elbow
Maybe I will get there one day. Given my playstyle, not that likely.
So what are your experiences with Ares new legendary?
plucky oxide
OR take spear richochet and get ares curse on spear and Aphro weakness dash
native ether
Especially since Athena got really nerfed this patch I wouldn't take her Special Deflect
plucky oxide
Ares and Aphro are the strongest gods right now.
native ether
If I'm gonna take anything on my spear special, its gonna be a status curse or Artemis
plucky oxide
So ares' new legendary only further cements this.
native ether
I would throw Artemis and Zeus into that pot right now. Ares is much better now considering his damage is really high though. Aphro has always been good.
Freak Accident Artemis Zeus combos are incredibly strong
wheat elbow
I am not sure if I am on bord with ares being the strongest god
native ether
works best on a fast weapon though
wheat elbow
but he is definitively much better than he used to be now.
native ether
Ares is awful on the rail primary, he's decent on the rail special
bright raven
what part of Ares is strong? Rifts? Doom?
wheat elbow
Depends.
His doom effects are all amazing on their own now.
Huge damage and a debuff, which is great.
native ether
Ares is good on slow attacks. Anything fast, you want something else. Doom is considerably better now, but if you're using a fast weapon, you're losing value on Doom.
wheat elbow
Also the potencial to get duo boons with Aphro and Athena to further cement the usefulness of doom
native ether
I like Ares on specials. I don't like Ares on my basic attacks.
wheat elbow
Blade Rifts are tricky because you need to dedicate to Ares so that they become strong.
native ether
Blade Rifts are tricky but if you build some artemis and get hunting blades you're set
wheat elbow
Without legendary and/or hunting blades, blade rifts are mediocre
If you get the legendary, you can make your blade rift deal over 100 damage per tick against sturdy enemies
native ether
The other reason I find the backstab so important on the spear is those stupid shield bois.
wheat elbow
Shield heroes are a pain, but they have gotten better imo.
native ether
I find my runs are generally determined by
"Did I get Alecto (If I'm running high heat Alecto in the past has ruined my runs)
"Do I have a good enough build to beat the Hydra"
"Do I have a way to counter shields"
"Do I have enough burst to kill Theseus as fast as possible"
plucky oxide
Doom is a curse. Doom special does amazing flat damage. Pair that with any other debuff and you have enough damage to win the run.
wheat elbow
Ares, Dionysus and Aphrodite are in a league on their own imo.
Aphrodite and Dionysus are what I'd consider to be the best gods in the game at the moment.
plucky oxide
Dio damage is slow and consistent, but a single tap from an ares shield throw will do wonders.
native ether
I think all the gods are reasonably powered besides Poseidon (bro uncle needs some love)
plucky oxide
I still take Dio just for the debuff tho. Highly valuable.
native ether
Different boons work better on different weapons. Its about synergy together more than some being flatly op.
wheat elbow
I mean, if I can, I take them all
Give me Dio Attack, Aphro Dash and Ares Special
every run becomes a W
Or Dionysus Zeus. I swear, I am a sucker for their duo boon
native ether
I still prefer Athena dash because its Athena dash, and if I have the option I take Artemis attack instead. I always end up seeing her again and grabbing marked which blows my damage way out of proportion. Stacking that with Piercing Fire from the Rail means I can literally just blast Theseus without caring.
other fun thing about Piercing Fire is your debuffs dont seem to apply if you pierce through a shield.
plucky oxide
Artemis dash is only good for one shield build, a couple sword builds, and all of bow
Athena dash is good on soooo much
wheat elbow
Aphrodite > Athena though
native ether
So Dio is much less valuable for a Piercing Fire rail build, because I'm not getting that Poison. Crits do go off though.
plucky oxide
But neither of these apply debuffs like Aphro and Dio though, yeah
wheat elbow
I can see that.
native ether
Zeus lighting also goes off
getting jolted on that means double debuff with marked, meaning double damage
wheat elbow
Zeus is also cool, but he really needs at least two boons to be good
native ether
double damage on a crit
wheat elbow
If you get 3-5 good Zeus boons though, he can carry a run hard
Zeus dash + Jolted, double lightning, chain lightning ultimate and bigger impact and you are set for game.
native ether
I find getting Zeus anything attack (on a fast attack) and Jolted is a run carry. Everything melts and gets debuffed.
wheat elbow
ALSO
Can we discuss how Mercurys slowing dash breaks the game?
As in, makes even the hardest chamber enemies a laughing joke?
native ether
The only god i generally dont get much benefit from is Broseidon unfortunately. Hopefully he gets some buffs
It doesn't work on bosses :p
wheat elbow
Doesn't have to as long as it gives you smooth sailing in chambers.
native ether
I find it helpful. Rarely do I get it offered to me though.
wheat elbow
You can just repeadedly dash through enemies and kill them while they stand there in shock forever.
I had it on a run where I had Ares legendary and blade rift dash.
plucky oxide
Dash runs are a.... I don't want to say a problem, but they are surprisingly viable.
I personally don't think a main source of damage should come from your invincible state.
It's why I love the design of Artemis dash.
But also: jolted thunder runs with Zeus are supremely insane. A bit too much investment required to put him Up There with the best, but very much so viable.
frank dew
i dont feel like its a problem really cause while he needs investment to be great thats kinda true for most of them
and he plays fairly well with others like poseidon and artemis
pastel jolt
oh nice
rugged apex
the only reason tisiphone ever damages me is the first two dashes on her whip attack have way bigger hitboxes than the visual
autumn tapir
spear is my favorite weapon, but it's just so...not good that I can't really justify using it
although I have not tried it in High Speed, so maybe that changed
turbid needle
I struggle with shield usually
elfin pulsar
the special speed boost does not work well with the rail special
30% speed boost appears to do nothing at point blank, just makes it travel faster if I shoot it far
also does anybody know if the attack speed boost improves reload time?
also weird thing, if you cancel your reload with a special you can have two specials in the air at once
hollow minnow
any one have advice for the Bull and Thesius?????? I have 4 DD's and the shield and am soooo scared, I don't want to fail AGAIN
unkempt pagoda
learn their patterns
lost rose
ever since they nerfed the chariots down to just one, I think it's objectively better strategy to take Asterius out first
unkempt pagoda
also the game is built for failure you're fine
hollow minnow
oh "joining the club", I'll do that as well I hate the spear idk how to use it?!
i guess, lol....just like Z says "time to go get killed again" amirite?
unkempt pagoda
learn their patterns and their timing so you know when to dash
hollow minnow
I'll try...
unkempt pagoda
if you dash at the right time when he throws his spear, theseus is wide open for a lot of damage
elfin pulsar
best way to use spear IMO is slow and steady, its got so much range and stunlocks everybody who isn't armored
hollow minnow
can you damaged him even though he has a shield?!!?
elfin pulsar
you can play super safe
unkempt pagoda
yes, he has moments of vulnerability
hollow minnow
so you want to hit him just after he throws the spear?
unkempt pagoda
most notably after he throws his spear, but i think he walks away from you after most of his attacks
hollow minnow
ok.
lost rose
The "Piercing" upgrades for gun and bow also go through his shield now
unkempt pagoda
^
lost rose
And spear backstab is pretty reliable
I know you said you don't like spear, but if you can get vicious skewer and work with the backstabs it can be a good way to take him out
unkempt pagoda
the fixed damage boons (ares, zeus, and dio) are really effective towards them as well
plus artemis' wrath goes through shield too
lost rose
hunting blades still OP, I hear
hollow minnow
Artemis's wrath is one of my favorites! Probably my top fave!!
Ok I'm heading in.... [gulps nervously]
😱
atomic star
Ok, so before I post something in feedback.
I was thinking that the "survive for 45 seconds rooms" need some sort of incentive to actually engage, instead of just run around. In diablo 3 there's this "bonus loot if you manage to kill X monsters". I know you get some gold drops from the enemies you kill, but I feel like it should be something more explicit.
There's also the concept in this game about the infernal troves about how quickly you kill stuff you get more loot... maybe the inverse needs to be true and that's enough?
elfin pulsar
IMO golds a good enough reward, though maybe more gold than usual due to higher difficulty
pastel jolt
that's the thing, on 90% of my runs, a survival room isn't actually hard
it's just boring because i can't make it go any faster
atomic star
Like, even a counter at the top of the screen that howed how many mobs you killed andgetting to like 50 or 100 or whatever
elfin pulsar
im pretty sure they are objectively harder if your killing stuff
atomic star
Maybe they just cut the damn things altogether
elfin pulsar
more armored guys
i like em myself, good way to see how a builds coming along, have to decide to try and farm or run
atomic star
Maybe the rooms morph into a "survive or thrive" sort of thing where you can choose to either run around for 45 seconds, or nuke enough mobs to end the room faster
I dunno, they just feel bad
pastel jolt
i think "kill mobs to reduce timer" has been feedback'd before
elfin pulsar
that could be cool, have a max counter
i like having a max number of spawns more than kills reducing timer, becuase that makes it a lot harder to keep track of the actual time left
either would be an improvement tho
atomic star
I mean honestly if you're trying for a "competitive speedrun" then any sort of seed with a survival room just adds a raw 45 seconds to the time
And hurts the hermes keepsake
elfin pulsar
i lowkey hate the hermes keepsake design for that exact reason
muted ruin
My first 120 heat clear and my first post. Very proud and basically just showing off but still! Shield dash attack and deflect for life.
elfin pulsar
not to mention the set survival rooms, plenty of rooms are objectively unbeatable by the timer
daaaang good stuff thats awesome
the dash attack or the bull rush?
muted ruin
dash attack
elfin pulsar
sweet
muted ruin
that plus artemis crit and a ton of deflects got me through
elfin pulsar
you got nothing for clears, is this a new save or do you just push your max heat available to u each time?
muted ruin
actually more than deflects, think I had 7 death denial all in- got both buffed from athena before I had to use one
just pushing the max heat- only started playing a couple weeks ago
I just hit my 100th attempt a couple runs before starting this one
elfin pulsar
seems like a great pace to me, i cant deal with act 3 past like 90 heat for the life of me
though i havent tried since the new patch
muted ruin
yeah I am really proud of it tbh- such a great game for pushing yourself in
tbh I just have a good rhythm with the dash attack now, dodging and hammering at em
elfin pulsar
they got the difficulty scaling system nearly perfect in this, really like how it works
muted ruin
not sure I could do over 100 with any other weapon!
elfin pulsar
whats ur strategy for theseus and mino?
muted ruin
hammer that dodge back and forth over him
charge up the ares rift fast as pos
its not a complicated strat but the area of the dodge attack was just big enough for it
worth saying im not playing with a single point in enemy damage buff but I was playing with 100% cost increase and barely anything in the mirror
elfin pulsar
you can get to 120 with 0 extra enemy damage?
muted ruin
best way to get above 75 is to start working out what you don't need from the mirror I reckon
yep!
elfin pulsar
did not know that, sounds like a smart way to do it
muted ruin
I maxxed out mirror so only had 500 in it (see my 20k excess in the bottom right of the screen!)
elfin pulsar
i've been trying higher and higher damage and its just frustrating when it gets up there
getting clipped by some random nonsense and losing 50 hp sucks
muted ruin
yeah its just not optimal I dont think
yeeeep... and you need to put so much in hp increase that bosses take forever and you WILL get clipped
whereas so many things in the mirror are 'nice to have' but not vital, and if you commit to not being able to buy much you can go 100% cost increase and focus on anything but gold
graceful jackal
I think the idea is just "don't get hit"
If you can master dodging everything; your pact can be maxed and you wouldn't really have an issue besides it taking forever
muted ruin
thats one idea but I am not good enough for that so had to work out another way 😃
elfin pulsar
its definitely a real strategy, I think most the people I've seen post 120 wins have done 500% damage
lost rose
I feel like the perfect dodge has gotten a lot less viable since Elysium was added
elfin pulsar
just too stressful for me
lost rose
it worked well enough when the hydra was the last boss but these days, I dunno
elfin pulsar
yeah I can see that
muted ruin
its more when the room gets completely full of orbs for me
graceful jackal
I mean the biggest issue (for me) are the the shield things from Elysium and Thesus
lost rose
yeah, the hotwheels and the butterfly orbs are very very hard to avoid
graceful jackal
You have to specifically hit them from behind; which becomes a pain when you're dodging everything is
everything else*
elfin pulsar
just ran into a room with a massive orb in the middle with like 5k health
is that the new mini-boss?
graceful jackal
Yup
elfin pulsar
cool
graceful jackal
It CAN be overwhelming
The sheer number of enemies + butterflies can make it hard to win without taking major damage
hollow minnow
ahhhh I FINALLYYYY beat the bull and Theseus!!!! YES!!!!!!!!! Technically it's my second time, since I beat them once before my original save vanished!!!
Soooooooooo happy!!
grand patrol
YESSSS!!!!!!
hollow minnow
IT FEELS SO GOOD!!!!!
lost rose
NICE!!!!!
hollow minnow
It was a mix of Poisiden and Ares who saved me!! I had the shove-away attack, and the Epic one which deals a ton of damage when shoving them into walls, AND blade rift dash!!!! I barely survived, but I SURVIVED!! IT WAS AWESOME!!!!!!!!
plucky oxide
Congrats! That's awesome to hear!
hollow minnow
So grateful to Posidon and Ares, though, I wanna build a shrine to them LOL!!!! They saved meeee!
And i had 23 heat!!!! Loved the big Darkness reward after the fight!!! I hope it eventually becomes less of a monumentous struggle, lol!
I think....I'm going to attempt it again!!
😱 😈
graceful jackal
Congrats! Now go back and kill them even harder >:)
delicate furnace
hi i can't seems to come across heroic or legendary boons. Is there any prequisite for them or it's just RNG ?
trim ingot
for legendaries you need to have certain prerequisite boons. check the wiki for specifics: https://hades.gamepedia.com/Hades_Wiki
you can only get a heroic boon if a god offers an exchange deal on an epic boon
delicate furnace
Oh i see so it's a tier system. Thanks a lot for the link !
wheat elbow
Poseidon is the last god who only has one duo boon at this point I believe
Hooking him up with one or two other goods would be a fairly good addition to make him more interesting
lime ingot
i had that with the vortex upgrade and the wider AoE upgrade
i just dash around and the ticks start stackin like CRAZY
kind cloud
VICIOUS CYCLE is my favorite Legendary boon in the game.
lime ingot
oops
i started stacking to like the 50s and it was like holy snap
and those ticks are SHORT
so it was racking damage right dam quick
kind cloud
But maybe I'm mistaken but I had one where the damage increase was +2. It scaled absurdly fast.
kind cloud
One Wrath Blade Rift did close to 1,000 damage against Minotaur.
Just melted the bull...
lime ingot
also might be worth mentioning that i had chaos's boon for extra darkness at +266%
kind cloud
YES!
lime ingot
i'm getting 615 darkness for this round XD
kind cloud
I've received that Chaos boon only once but it was super helpful for buying Fated Authority.
errant narwhal
oh no I got 3 really good chaos boons and idk what to choose
placid silo
What are they?
errant narwhal
+70 health, +140% more money and +70% attack dmg
placid silo
Oh wow these are good
errant narwhal
yeah I had the yarn
I’m leaning towards attack bc I’m on the rail with no attack boon
but I get thru Elysium by hoarding max health lol, and money is always good
aaah heck I’ll take the attack
lime ingot
omg this run is stupid i love it XD
i have heroric shatter shot doing 198 base damage. i have 8 total casts from chaos and artemis, i have exit wounds doing 240 per AND dislodged in 4.7 seconds
PLUS i have the hermes upgrade that lets me rapid fire them XD
lime ingot
i've been waiiiting for something like this XD
errant narwhal
hmm heartbreak flourish or different league
lime ingot
i should record the final fight to see how ridiculous it is XD
errant narwhal
I’ve been blessed
errant narwhal
hahaha pls record the fight
lime ingot
at this rate i have to
errant narwhal
I just got rapid cast yay
lime ingot
ayyy
errant narwhal
omg I altered an ares boon in hopes of artemis and I got her
nothing particularly good for a cast build tho :(
oh my god I just got to the first round of hydra heads with 3 cats and 2 rail shots bc I have heavy slug and I critted on both for 700+ damage
this was the right choice
lime ingot
holy lol
kind cloud
OUTRAGEOUS! 😂
errant narwhal
ARE.... ARE THE FLAME WHEELS SUPPOSED TO BE THIS TINY
lime ingot
AND THEY SOUND LIKE CATS
it took me exactly a minute to kill them
holy snap that was ridiculous XD
errant narwhal
I can’t wait to see then ahah
lime ingot
is there a hades subreddit?
south comet
there is!
errant narwhal
yep!
lime ingot
link please!
south comet
south comet
damn so close
lime ingot
omg i just rewatched it, one of those shots crit for 1061 damage
https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/c1yl0k/scatter_shot_cast_build_final_boss_fight/ @south comet @errant narwhal
kind cloud
Yes, OUTRAGEOUS.
I'm missing out by not using cast builds more frequently.
lime ingot
i never really "go" for a build, but this one just happened organically xD.
it started off with phalanx shot and was immediately replaceable with scatter shot so i was like SURE WHY NOT LOL
errant narwhal
dang
lime ingot
I'm not sure if i mentioned already but doing a shotgun cast build was something i've always wanted to do and hermes made it even more possible x3
he's getting ALL my ambrosia bottles
bright raven
What is special about 60 heat? I notice everyone talks about 60 heat and 120 heat, why those numbers?
kind cloud
Edit: I stand corrected. See @turbid needle's post.
turbid needle
200 Heat.
And 15, 60, and 120 are for the Skelly statues.
25, 50, and 75 are for Erebus rooms.
bright raven
Skelly statues? I guess that must be something unlocked by story
I've been doing 50 heat for the infernal rooms
Haven't gotten 75 heat yet
turbid needle
In the weapon room (where you pick your starting weapon, Keepsake, beat up Skelly), between the entrance to the room and the "Start Level" prompt, there are three tarps up.
Clear those with the given values of Heat to unlock those statues.
They are purely cosmetic and for bragging rights.
That being said, if you get the 120 statue (or even the 60) you are really really good.
harsh perch
hi pals! got one question, dont know if this is the right place to ask
there are like, some heat trials? you need a minimun of heat to do the "trial", right?
just wanted to know if those consume your heat or something or if you only need a minimum
harsh perch
okay, thank you ^^
tough echo
I'll just put this here for the sake of sharing.
https://imgur.com/2t3R8yJ
wheat elbow
I mean, it's cute and I was thinking about tripple boon scenarios myself quite a bit, but....
A lot of RNG involved in getting to that point and even if you put that aside, it's a lot of work for not all that much of an greater gain.
I feel like we have reached a point where every god has either a very strong legendary, a very strong duoboon and/or a very solid core cit that getting a lot of good things for your run becomes very feasable.
Take Ares as an example, I used to have no respect for that god, yet this god became an absolute damage monster basically overnight.
tough echo
Fair point. That Vicious Cycle boon of Ares has made quite the spotlight by itself.
I'mma take note of this.
I like this critical criticism.
Thank you for your time~
subtle shale
so I know it's a bit late since she's been a boss for awhile but
I still have no idea how Alecto works
Any advice for fighting her once she gets to her last couple of phases?
frank dew
just dash alot and if you can kite her over the traps
pastel jolt
unless you have a chaos curse slowing you down, it's possible to dodge alecto's ground circle attack without dashing
the benefit being that if you dash to avoid the circles, you can't actually stop or else the recovery kicks in and gets you hit
brazen sphinx
merciful end is the most broken duo boon imo
as long as you aim for it it's the end game boon
i don't even think deadly reversal or hunting blades are good compared to merciful end
merciful end seems THAT good with divine dash
just hit once and dash
hell, even dash attack can proc it
wheat elbow
I mean, depending on how you look at it, all duo boons are amazing in their own right.
Athena Artemis giving you that huge crit chance boost for example is nothing short of amazing. A lot of Zeus Duo Boons basically allowing you to just add his skillset to another gods is very strong as well
plucky oxide
Yeah merciful end is definitely overtuned in my opinion. Reminder that deadly reversal used to be 100% crit chance.
Same with vicious cycle for that matter, but that's a legendary.
I'm also of the mind that ares didn't need as much of a dps spike as he got, but hey, I'll take the easy wins while I've got them.
wheat elbow
DPS wasn't really what he needed, he needed something to pull his kit together because Doom and Blade Rifts did not work well with one another
Which they still don't, no doubt about it.
They are now, under right circumstances, just that strong on their own that it doesn't matter anyway anymore.
Frankly enough, some of Ares' strongest buffs weren't even to himself.
Artemis no longer giving him bad and useless boons for example was great
plucky oxide
I mean, Artemis' kit is segmented into casts or crit
turbid needle
Is there any way outside of Pressure Points to make Artemis' Casts crit?
plucky oxide
You can take the small global crit, plus marked status, or take Artemis crit plus marked status
But as soon as you take a crit boon it opens up a ton of boons that focus solely on crit, dramatically reducing your chances at getting the cast boons you need to even begin defining your build as an Artemis cast build.
And Ares' whole 'kit' is about being able to do other things. Delayed spikes of damage and debuff status coming from a single hit, along with prolonged/sustained damage coming from a single cast. They offered ways of freeing you up to do other things, like apply more debuffs, kite, or keep on the offensive. This is still true, and merciful end simply speeds up the process by which you have to switch between Ares and your 'other thing'. The lack of cap on this and the removal of the delay entirely is what makes it so darn strong, though it does require the correct investment.
Everyone always didn't like Ares because he does flat damage (back when the multiplicative damage was being calculated) but this change has made Ares' strengths feel much more at home within the game. It's awesome utility to be highly invested in, say, sword attack, and be able to turn your sword special into something that did decent flat damage (and debuff) without getting in the way of your main kit.