h1-builds-and-combat

[atomic panther]

Well yeah

[hard holly]

Congrats

Now do it with 25 heat

[grand patrol]

whoa, nice job!!

[hard holly]

Wait, whats that other hammer upgrade

I dont think Ive seen it before

Or is that a duo boon

[atomic panther]

Armor Slayer

[hard holly]

Ah, neat

[stuck whale]

Is World Splitter for Sword?

[hard holly]

Yup

Switches the 3-hit combo to a single chonky hit for 80

[stuck whale]

Beautiful. That kind of thing is my only concept for the last weapon. A big hammer that swings slow, hits hard, doesn't charge

Okay, important question! Can you have two duo boons active? I finally got the requirements for Hunting Blades, but I got offered Deadly Reversal (Artemis/Athena, which is also very good) before I could get HB

[unkempt pagoda]

i mean, i don’t see why not? in the end they’re still just boons, just with requirements

could just be rng, though if i’m wrong someone tell me

[stuck whale]

That's what I figured, but I don't want to miss out on what I've been trying to get for days

Alright, I'm risking it!

Duo boons seem like a run defining bonus, so I can see why they'd only let you have one

[plucky oxide]

I believe I've seen runs posted here with people receiving more than one duo boon, but I do not think I personally have seen this in my own games.

[stuck whale]

Update: It's possible, and I'm gonna kick Theseus' buff butt for the first time

Thanks Onyx for the confidence

[median ridge]

deadly reversal + hunting blades is even more terrifying

crits on blade rifts in general

[terse scarab]

did they nerf the bow? feels like it takes forever to kill stuff now

[heavy vapor]

huh, that's a lot of sword clears lol

premium vintage doesn't give max HP, does it?

[median ridge]

it does

[heavy vapor]

ohhhhhhhhhh.

(that's not very obvious)

hm

[median ridge]

yeah it should probably be described better

[heavy vapor]

I've taken it once or twice just for the ambrosia

and I didn't notice it increased Max

just to confirm then, Sunken Treasure only gives food?

(and other shinies of course)

[night pasture]

yoof, you need to take the onion multiple times in order to finish its codex entry?

[heavy vapor]

onion?

[night pasture]

deliberately failing seems kind of grody

[heavy vapor]

ohhh

in Erebus.

[night pasture]

oh, I hope that's not a spoiler?

yeah

[heavy vapor]

sorry I thought you had some nickname for either a weapon or keepsake

I was thinking shield, or something

[night pasture]

I mean the shattered shackle is about as useful as the onion am I right!!!

[heavy vapor]

pillars falling can be alrigh.

they're everywhere

if anything, primordial egg should probably force a chaos gate when possible, rather than give you the HP discount

[manic ermine]

900 damage elysium pillars that respawn

[plucky oxide]

Wait. Egg doesn't force a gate? I thought it did.

[forest marsh]

Nope

[heavy vapor]

It just makes you not take the hp damage and boosts rarity like the others

I guess they wanted chaos keepsake to be a bit weird

[unkempt pagoda]

eh, i wish it forced at least one

i don't like a keepsake that could be entirely useless due to rng

[heavy vapor]

Worst case I guess you get to level it up lol

A rare or epic chaos boon can be ridiculous though

[atomic star]

3 times special, or armor piercing on shotgun rail?

[unkempt pagoda]

depends on what boons you have

but i like 3 special more

[atomic star]

yeah, considering i have the chaos +56% damage, special wrecks things

[median ridge]

do you ever get a build that's op in so many different ways

hunting blades but also zeus legendary on infinite exploding rail

[atomic star]

I had one my last run and squandered it

I had like 3 duo boons from artemis, ares, and athena

[heavy vapor]

I had hunting blades and epic cast and epic faster wrath build up

Also epic ares wrath

Literally constant beyblades

[night pasture]

theseus is so much easier if you make sure you have blade rifts it's not even funny

my past three runs I've taken him out before asterius

without them being able to hit him is so much more difficult because he blocks even when he's prepping to throw his spear, and has instant turn speed, so you can't get behind him

meaning a) the only window you have to damage him is when he deliberately walks away from you after he attacks, and 2. you HAVE to dodge at the right time, 'cuz it's impossible for him to miss, even if you dodge right behind him as he's throwing his spear

[heavy vapor]

yea

also centre of AoEs have to be aimed slightly behind

so if you're gamepad and autoaim, it might be a little difficult with adamant rail

[atomic star]

Got my first clear with it.

Do you need a certain discord rank to post pictures?

[atomic panther]

I think mods can, but the way everyone else does it is by copying links

[grand patrol]

fanworks is free reign!

but please, only post fanworks- what i mean is, you dont have to use links there

[atomic star]

Was just admiring slay the spire, and think this could be cool for Hades:
https://i.postimg.cc/bNtqXp7G/Run-History.png

[heavy vapor]

I’m gonna aim to get a high streak on <=25 heat

[autumn python]

im pretty pumped, i just got my first sub 30 min clear

[stuck whale]

Mejwell, shield kind of nullifies both of the problems with Theseus, like blade rifts does. Just makes things a little more chaotic

Congrats!!! How many runs?

[autumn python]

30ish, only 5 after deciding to go for speed though, and I know a couple places i could cut time, so now the goal is below 25

[stuck whale]

30ish runs total? Like since you started?

[autumn python]

just checked, and yeah, 39 runs total

(including that last one)

[heavy vapor]

oh I thought you meant 39 clears

[heavy vapor]

streak 3 boys

I was doing it with +50% enemies

but I think I'll just go with 0 heat

[blazing cobalt]

Could it be sick to pay Charon to aid you in battle for a while or a similar henchman mechanic to make a sort of "money is power" strategy an option? Money seems kind of lacking in importance or utility atm.

[dull berry]

i mean you get powerful god boons if you buy them off charon

[blazing cobalt]

Yeah but those drop off in importance somewhere in asphodel

[lost rose]

in elysium especially well of charon items can be pretty useful

hydralite and eyes of lamia have kept me alive sometimes

not to mention extra death defies

and yarn of ariadne can give you a significant rarity boost to boons

[blazing cobalt]

yeah true, but they're all ways to spend money to fortify your regular combat options

[lost rose]

i mean.........yes

that's what poms do too

[blazing cobalt]

going full money could perhaps be a combat strategy of its own

[lost rose]

mmmmmmm

[robust garden]

i haven't made it to elysium in a long time to be honest

i don't know why

[lost rose]

i think it'd be kinda bland to literally buy your way through a run

[robust garden]

maybe i got worse

[lost rose]

where do you feel like you're struggling?

[robust garden]

hydra

[lost rose]

ahhh

[blazing cobalt]

well I imagine the mechanic not literally being 100g to skip the next room :p

[robust garden]

i used to blaze through it

now i get stuck at the part where it summons 5 heads

[lost rose]

i assume you've been following the advice to try to take care of one head to clear a safe spot right?

[robust garden]

yea

maybe it's the weapon

or the build

[lost rose]

is there a particular type of head that gives you grief? you could focus on responding to its attacks

[robust garden]

no

it's all equally annoying

imo

thing is i only made it to elysium with rail

now im trying it with bow

[heavy vapor]

build damage

I guess it would be better to see what your runs look like, in terms of choices

but the game doesn't track that automatically atm

[robust garden]

i remember what i sad

had*

[heavy vapor]

what I mean is like "When offered ABC, took A", etc.

like, a draft recap

[robust garden]

ah

[heavy vapor]

(sorry, my background is in card games lol)

[robust garden]

yea that's would be a good diea

idea*

[heavy vapor]

I guess the broad advice I can give for hydra is take damage? idk

for bow, you want the +% damage on attack

so Athena and Artemis and Aphrodite and Poseidon

rather than Ares

[robust garden]

i had a crit build

with urge to kill

and triple shot

[lost rose]

do you think it might help to watch how others do it? there's plenty of streamers and gameplay footage in self-promotion

[robust garden]

thing is

i already beat the game

i don't know why im strugling now

[heavy vapor]

different weapons, different circumstances

it's a roguelike

[robust garden]

true

[heavy vapor]

and sometimes maybe you're just tired

or sore

sword/spear hurt my thumb LOL

[robust garden]

tbh i havent been all that well since wednesday

when i got back to playong

so that might be it

[heavy vapor]

so take it easy and relax and don't worry if runs go badly

[robust garden]

ok then

[heavy vapor]

if you're really worried about choices or stuff, I'd be up for watching a discord screen share and making dumb comments

haha

[robust garden]

idk

that sounds good tbh

[heavy vapor]

yea? add me, lemme know. I'm free for the next 2 hours until it's bedtime 😃

[heavy vapor]

with alecto, is there a way to... counterplay the rage?

it's not obvious, if there is.

[robust garden]

don't think so

i think you just get free hits

when she's getting angry

[heavy vapor]

well like...

in other games, you don't want to hit them that quickly, so they don't build up rage

it's not the case here

I don't think anyway

[plain crypt]

Yeah, I never really pay attention to her rage

Am not even sure what the effect is when she builds it honestly

[heavy vapor]

that's my confusion.

[plain crypt]

Maybe I take more hits on average than I should on that fight though

[heavy vapor]

anyway, I have 4 (four!) streak

[plain crypt]

Nice

[hard holly]

There are 2 ways she gains rage

[plain crypt]

Three is my most.

[hard holly]

If youre hitting her

And then she has an attack where she stands still and rapidly increases it

[heavy vapor]

my last run was a nailbiter. won with 3hp left, no continues

i think I'm just tired, so playing badly

[hard holly]

So you just want to hit her very hard before she does that

[plain crypt]

Is that when she has the shield?

[heavy vapor]

no, before that

[hard holly]

To maximize the non-rage part

[heavy vapor]

I know what UNO is talking about

[plain crypt]

Oh, can't picture her animations off the top of my head

[hard holly]

Shields are set at the 25% threshholds

[heavy vapor]

she chills out and spins on the spot

[hard holly]

Yup

[heavy vapor]

and if you hit here, she gets rage super quick

[hard holly]

Just hit her hard and hope youre not on whipped frenzy

[heavy vapor]

tbh though, on no heat, she's a pushover

[plain crypt]

Oh okay, maybe I was thinking of the right animation but adding a shield in my head

[hard holly]

Well you get free hits in at that point

[heavy vapor]

to me, the relationship between meg and zag is what makes their fight compelling

[plain crypt]

Yeah, once you add a bunch of heat the best builds change completely

[heavy vapor]

the other two feel like 3rd and 4th wheels

[hard holly]

Could easily be that it tended to overlap with the threshhold shields

[plain crypt]

I thought blade rift was OP, but once I did 50 heat I was getting wrecked

[hard holly]

Fun fact:

Its possible to skip threshholds

[plain crypt]

Though, if I got the hunting blades duo upgrade it would still clean up, but otherwise it was not doing much for me

[heavy vapor]

blade rift is alrigh. It's my go-to for the beefy bros

I decided I have more fun at lower heats, so I'm going for streaks instead

[plain crypt]

Yeah, I found some a 50 heat combo that was still fun and just a challenge

[heavy vapor]

oh yea? what's that?

[plain crypt]

but first I tried like 400% or 500% extra damage and it was not very fun

[heavy vapor]

+20 for more encounters.... +10 for shields?

[plain crypt]

Umm I want to say extra foes, extra enemy health and maybe 200% damage?

[heavy vapor]

hmm ok

[plain crypt]

Some combo to take it to 50 heat

[heavy vapor]

I'm ok with loads of people, but each having more health is a little annoying

[plain crypt]

Oh and plus 2 to shields

If by shields you are meaning the free invul for two hits

[heavy vapor]

I was playing about 25 heat before, and tried out 50 but noped out of it cause mirror wasn't upgraded

yea, that's the one

they're shields in my mind

[hard holly]

Personally I find 500% extra damage the most fun

[plain crypt]

Yeah, I think that's a good name

[hard holly]

Everything else just kills the pacing

[heavy vapor]

I guess if you go for pierced butterfly?

[hard holly]

Except whipped Frenzy but with Alecto I dont use it anymore

[plain crypt]

I am interested in giving it another whirl, but I was much worse at the game at that point

[heavy vapor]

the problem is, damage is 1 heat per tick

I think it should scale better than that

ie like, 1/1/1/1/2/2/2/23/3/3/ etc.

some combination

[plain crypt]

I am scared to try whipped frenzy

[heavy vapor]

whipped frenzy is crazy hahaha

I played on +30% for a while

the beefybros don't ever stop attacking

[hard holly]

500% damage is fun because it forces you to go no-hit

[plain crypt]

Are we referring to the elysium boss by this?

[heavy vapor]

yea

[plain crypt]

okay

Yeah, maybe I should try 500% again

[heavy vapor]

one of the mods was getting annoyed that I keep calling them ornstein and smough

I think beefy bros is a good middle ground

[plain crypt]

hahaha

[hard holly]

I just call them the beauty and the beast

Though Theseus is more of a jock than a beast

[heavy vapor]

yea basically.

as it stands, his shield invalidates a lot of otherwise reasonable upgrades

[plain crypt]

Yeah for sure

[heavy vapor]

which is annoying first time encounter, but if you're aware of it, it's fine... ish.

[plain crypt]

The shields make some of the builds just feel pointless

[heavy vapor]

I guess you just need a backup

[plain crypt]

Like some builds would be fine, but against the shield enemies they are a major struggle

That's why I love that adamant rail special

It handles groups and single target

and gets past shields

[heavy vapor]

you still need to aim that slightly behind

[plain crypt]

It does it all basically

[heavy vapor]

the centre has to be behind the shield

[plain crypt]

Yeah, but if you get that upgrade to allow 3 shots, you just scorched earth it

[heavy vapor]

that's true

I just tried out the shotgun upgrade and... mm...

it feels strange

sometimes you get a double shot very quickly

otherwise it staggers

[plain crypt]

That's been my recent build I've had success with. Aphrodite special on rail with doom main attack

[heavy vapor]

something's not consistent with it

I suspect it's dash attack + normal

[plain crypt]

And whatever for cast

[heavy vapor]

doom main? really?

I guess that works

[plain crypt]

I have never tried the shotgun

[heavy vapor]

I'd rather, if no upgrade, use dionysus

[manic ermine]

yes you do dash double barrel shotgun plays

[plain crypt]

Yeah, I thought it was crap, but I have found great success with it

[heavy vapor]

well, I wouldn't say crap

[plain crypt]

Beat 25 heat and 50 heat for the first time using that build I believe

[heavy vapor]

I'd take it if offered

but if I had to choose from anything, dio would be my thoughts

right.

[plain crypt]

Huh, I have never liked the sick builds

[heavy vapor]

yea, the shotgun is alright I guess

[plain crypt]

How do you make them work? Are they dependent on getting that +3 extra sick stacks boon?

[heavy vapor]

sick is a one boon "build"

if the average sick proc is... 4? then you're getting an extra 40 damage per second from one boon

[hard holly]

Yup

[heavy vapor]

oh

wait no

awit yes

[hard holly]

Its similiar to doom, except a lot better

[heavy vapor]

yea, I got my math right.

and it rewards you the same way Doom does; doing bursts of damage

you do bursts, then avoid the attack

so really, I guess both are fine

cause average doom on attack is around 40 right

[manic ermine]

privileged double dipping scaling both the primary damage and the dot is great

[plain crypt]

Wait but doesn't one hit with a sick attack only put one stack? And it lasts how long?

[heavy vapor]

is Dire Misfortune (extra damage on Doom from repeated cast) good?

it's 5s

ticks 0.5s

therefore, 4*2, *5

is 40 damage

[hard holly]

Dire Misfortune is kinda eh

[plain crypt]

I have never found it to be good

The upgrade that goes with blade rift though

[hard holly]

It had one really abusable build

[plain crypt]

That thing is crazy

[hard holly]

Beyond that however, its just worse sick really

[heavy vapor]

hm.

what else do you need with dire misfortune?

or, what else do you want*

[plain crypt]

Huh, that does seem pretty good. I guess if I play sick the way I play doom and don't worry about getting tons of stacks then I could see it being superior in all cases

Doom does have issues with stacks too, where you can't queue up stacks

[manic ermine]

better numbers

[hard holly]

Well the build is gone

[plain crypt]

Oh, are you saying for doom damage?

[hard holly]

It was one that caused doom to reapply when it damaged a weak enemy

Which caused it to stack stupidly high

[manic ermine]

curse of longing + dire misfortune

1000+ doom ticks on theseus

[plain crypt]

Is curse of longing the blade rift one?

[heavy vapor]

that's not a lot of doom ticks... it's 1 per 1.1s

at least, that's how it reads

[manic ermine]

that's hunting blades ares/artemis, curse of longing is aphro/ares

[plain crypt]

There is a straight ares one too

[heavy vapor]

uhhh... aphrodite and ares has a duo?

[plain crypt]

that reapplies doom if the enemy is in a blade rift

It's really nice if you get the timing right

[manic ermine]

they had a duo, but as I said, dealing 1000 damage per doom was not balanced

[heavy vapor]

oh right.

[plain crypt]

And not so super rare like that ares/artemis duo

[heavy vapor]

must have been removed

well, if I get blade cast in tartarus or asphodel, I usually put on artemis trinket

[plain crypt]

Yeah, trying to get that duo is definitely smart, it's insane

Though I always wear myrmidon bracer for last biome

feels weird to call it a biome...

You have sold me on trying a sick build again, by the way 😀

[pastel jolt]

it was removed, yes

[heavy vapor]

I've not used myrmidon yet

I'm pretty sure I usually get hit from back anyway

[plain crypt]

Yeah, I need to track better about how many hits I'm getting from each

[manic ermine]

myrmidon +weak+any other damage reduction boon makes you invincible

[pastel jolt]

if it helps, the damage taken increase doesn’t go up with the ranks

[plain crypt]

And yeah, that's what I have found

Yeah, that's exactly why I use it

10% extra is really not bad

[heavy vapor]

oh. it's additive?

i guess I could try it

I assumed it was multiplicative

and so, doesn't matter even if it said "take 0% extra damage from back", if all I'm doing is taking damage that way, the trinket has no text

[pastel jolt]

[hypnos voice] well then try to get hit in the back less often!

[heavy vapor]

orrrr, I could have 60HP, and an extra 15 per continue

sorry, 12.

or anything else

[plain crypt]

I didn't consider so much about it being multiplicative vs additive and probably should have more

Because that is such a major difference

Does anyone know for the myrmidon bracer: is the damage from front vs back color schemed?

I feel like I notice red damage popups and yellow ones, but I haven't been able to fully take note in a fight

[night pasture]

@stuck whale I know your comment was from literally 7 hours ago but you raised a very good point

at the time though I was using the rail, though, because a) I had never finished a clear of elysium with the rail and 2. I like to pick whatever weapon has dark thirst on it to keep things interesting

[pearl willow]

The dash reload hammer effect for the rail was removed, right? Can't get to the wiki at present.

[coarse hare]

Yes it was

[wheat elbow]

When the gods of the game want to hurt you, they give you these

Wait, how do I take screenshots in Hades?

Can't seem to post pictures in here, shame.

Anyway, make a choice, double god boon or hammer

Have that happen to you twice while musing about all the opportunities some parallel version of you might be taking

[pastel jolt]

you need to upload someplace else and link

[wheat elbow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HadesTheGame/comments/bv9v69/when_the_game_forces_you_to_make_these_hard/

[atomic star]

Had something happen to me, I believe the correct answer is the trial

I had one run with no weapon upgrades when I got to hydra, and still killed it due to focusing on boons. I, however, got destroyed at theseus/asterius

So when the 4th biome opens, do we expect to be allowed to have another hammer upgrade? Or two weapon upgrades for the whole run?

[wheat elbow]

I had no weapon upgrades until Elysium

then I got two upgrades in elysium

[pastel jolt]

yeah, that can happen

[atomic star]

Yeah, I believe that always happens if you don't have two

[wheat elbow]

I am beginning to ask myself, if, if I would have made the choice, could have had a total of 4 or if the game just tries to ease you into seeing/getting two

Also, I am having one of the most broken runs ever on my first account.

Sadly did not record the run, but I will get the final fight

[unkempt pagoda]

you can only get two i believe, and i don't think we'll see another hammer in the 4th

[atomic star]

It would be an interesting question to ask the devs. If there is a concept of a seed id (which may be true) then maybe certain rooms have two options, and an "If you have 2 upgrades then X otherwise Y"

[wheat elbow]

People say that hunting blades Ares/Artemis is strong

Let me tell you, Dyonysus/Zeus is the truth

[unkempt pagoda]

if we couldn't get one for asphodel, then i don't expect one for the last biome

[atomic star]

I dunno, I am mostly completely spent out of health and "extra lives" by theseus/asterius. I can't imagine having more oomph to make it through another biome.

Thinking another weapon upgrade may be necessary. Or maybe just nerf the goddamn hydra

[unkempt pagoda]

am i allowed to say "git gud"

[atomic star]

You are, and that's completely valid feedback. I just think for a 2nd boss in a 4 boss run, the hydra is crazy. Maybe the skeleton adds are too much.

[pearl willow]

you get better, first time i hit hydra months ago i thought it was absolutely impossible, now i can get through it without even taking a hit sometimes

[atomic star]

Some runs I wreck the hydra, others its like "may as well go stand in lava"

[unkempt pagoda]

they may nerf elysium a bit when the 4th comes out, like they did with asphodel this update

[wheat elbow]

I have reached a point where I feel like asphodel and elysium can be handled and whenever I don't do

it's because of me

[atomic star]

"because of me" = "i picked the bow"

[pastel jolt]

false, bow is good

or, well. it all depends on your own playstyle

[wheat elbow]

@atomic star I had a great bow run the other day that may or may not made me a bit more forgiving towards the bow

But even considering that

I did not even say that the bow is the worst weapon in the game for me

[pastel jolt]

like, a lot of people talk about the shield being really good but i've only ever cleared the game with it by running cast and i've barely touched it since elysium came in

[wheat elbow]

That'd be the spear

[atomic star]

Do we have any hints as to what's coming in the next update? Or do we all get surprised on patch day

[wheat elbow]

Damn

I messed up the recording, I'mma scrub

[pearl willow]

the fact that the shield can deal great damage while being largely invulnerable makes it clearly a cut above imo. everything can excel with the right setup but i find spear/rail to have the lowest performance floors.

[wheat elbow]

I agree on everything except for the rail.

The Rail is simply amazing and has a lot of strong synergies going for it.

Zeus probably being the most obvious one.

I also got a bit more respect for Dyonysus after the last couple runs I encountered him.

His cast is bonkers and he has a lot of cool boons that just make overall gameplay much more convenient

[stuck whale]

It definitely has a lower floor though

[wheat elbow]

Arguably.

The only things he has that I usually, truly and absolutely avoid are his special, the >40% Boons and the Wrath

[pearl willow]

i think zeus rail is pretty unimpressive unless you get the legendary at which point it jumps to ridiculous

[wheat elbow]

I mean, Zeus Chainlightning increases the rails singletarget damage from attacks by at least 100%

That is before you consider the spread

and all the other things that you will get on top of that

And then you remember that Zeus has Duo Synergies with three gods, Poseidon, Dyonysus and Artemis

[manic ermine]

zeus duos are poop

[wheat elbow]

You speak for yourself there, mate.

I just had the Dyonysus/Zeus combo for the first time and it was just bonkers. Carried me through the run without needing to pay much attention. With the rail, by the way

Zeus/Poseidon is a great combo as well because Poseidon makes everything you do knock enemies back which in turn will also unload all the damage potencial of Zeus in one single action, allowing for ridiculous singletarget and AOE damage

Can't say much about the Artemis Duo because I haven't had that yet, but if you end up having it, you have all of zeus' damage + crits, so the result should be sizeable.

[twilit niche]

I've found that i avoid poseidon boons unless im not confident about act 2 rooms because they just become kind of useless vs theseus. Anyone else?

[plain crypt]

Poseidon is probably my last choice on most runs, though I may change things up after learning that Poseidon/Athena give the biggest raw damage buffs

[wheat elbow]

I usually like seeing Poseidon, thought that always also depends on the weapon I use.

[plain crypt]

I somewhat enjoy the boon that makes room rewards upgraded though, since it affects max life

[wheat elbow]

He has a very fun to use Wrath Effect that is also just fairly good

so meeting him feels wasted in almost no scenario for me

[atomic star]

I think the keepsake system is neat, I just feel like a lot of them are useless. So much so that "what's the point". But being able to equip multiples seems like it's too OP

[plain crypt]

Yeah, I basically only use the boon ones and then the myrmidon bracer

[atomic star]

So either the ones everyone uses are too strong, or the others too weak

[wheat elbow]

What even are the ones everyone uses

[plain crypt]

Currently in general I tend to go ares -> artemis -> myrmidon

I always go to elysium with myrmidon

[wheat elbow]

I for the most part just use the Hypnos purse and the Achilles Bracer

[plain crypt]

achilles being rubble damage?

[wheat elbow]

40% less damage from front, 10 more from behind

[plain crypt]

Oh yeah okay, same as me

[atomic star]

I feel like you should be able to equip an olympian keepsake at the start of your run, and unable to change it; plus something else.

[plain crypt]

I just forgot what person it is associated with

[atomic star]

My runs have been Chaos Egg -> Coin Purse -> Broken Spearhead.

[plain crypt]

So clearly we don't all agree on which ones are useless

[wheat elbow]

I can absolutely see Chaos egg for the first floor

[atomic star]

I think the "damage farther away, and "make the rubble damage hurt more" are kinda bad.

[wheat elbow]

Would be a tight fit between purse and egg for me, but, here is the thing

[plain crypt]

I feel like you could make the rubble damage work maybe

[atomic star]

And the butterfly is a nice concept, it's just too punishing to unequip it

[wheat elbow]

Coin Purse is always usable on the first floor because you will see at least three shops

[plain crypt]

Try to use it on final boss maybe shrug

[wheat elbow]

while you may end up going your ways without a single chaos lair

[plain crypt]

Yeah, the butterfly and ranged damged ones I just don't see as worth it ever

[wheat elbow]

Also, chaos lairs showing up before a boss fight can go wrong

[atomic star]

Yeah, it feels really bad to not find a chaos rift. I usually just give u p if I don't see one on the first floor

[wheat elbow]

Butterfly scales with skill

If you can confidently clear all the rooms, it's great

[plain crypt]

Though that potential rarity buff for chaos can completely change a run

[atomic star]

I feel like the chaos egg should guarantee one in the first few rooms

[plain crypt]

I have never tried purse, it never has seemed worth it to me

Is it 200 or 300 at max?

[wheat elbow]

Here is another reason why I don't like Chaos all that much

[atomic star]

Yeah; purse second floor i have a lot of cash left over by the end of elysium.

[wheat elbow]

He/She tends to show up in rooms before I can get a god boon

@plain crypt 200 max

[plain crypt]

Oh okay, yeah that just doesn't feel worth it to me, I don't know

[wheat elbow]

I mean

200 coins is a free god boon

which you can buy early and keep forever

[plain crypt]

Yeah, I guess that's pretty nice

[wheat elbow]

Coin Purse, in a sense, is one of the only keepsakes that can give you permanent value

[plain crypt]

I can definitely see the argument for the spearpoint over the bracer for elysium

Though I have never tried the spearpoint myself

But surely it's one or the other right?

[wheat elbow]

Speedrunners seem to take the earring

which I can see why

40% damage while you are below 40% health

Makes you get through the game in a flash

[plain crypt]

Oh yeah, that has definitely looked appealing to me

Really I guess there are a bunch that are at least decent, and then a few that seem like never worth it

[wheat elbow]

I looked at Nox' Keepsake and was like

[plain crypt]

I would say distant foes one, rubble one, heal on soul pickup (or whatever they are called)

[wheat elbow]

"That will end up being amazing if it's at max rank and if I am doing hardmode runs"

But then you remember that the heated runs also take away your healing

Medusa also seemed great for all the small destroyables there are

[plain crypt]

Yeah, but still 4% is pretty bad

When you figure a healing item drop from urn is probably a 10-15 heal

[wheat elbow]

I say that every time Artemis gives me 4% crit chance

but it still ends up being a big contributor

These small numbers add up over time

[pearl willow]

pretty sure dropped food is always 10% of your max HP

[plain crypt]

But if you have say blade rift you are hitting thousands of times per room

But there are not thousands of urns per room

oh 10% okay

[wheat elbow]

Depends on the floor you are and your healing demands

Take Tartarus as a beginner for example

There are plenty of urns

So for someone who get's hit alot, medusas keepsake may end up being a worthwhile choice

[plain crypt]

Yeah, I would have to count the average number of urns to decide

[wheat elbow]

Once you made it past Tartarus, you probably have graduated from it and received other, better ones and/or learned to preserve your HP better

[plain crypt]

The first one I got was the charon one, and it seemed crazy good at the time

but haven't used it since

Well, maybe I got 1 or 2 olympian ones before, not sure

But yeah, that is a good point, that not all keepsakes are created for the same player

That healing urn one could be geared towards a new player, and that is a perfectly valid design decision

[wheat elbow]

Regarding the god percs, I'd say that they have potencial to be run-defining

[atomic star]

I guess the question is... when should the "identity" of a run get formed?

Tartarus? Asphodel?

[wheat elbow]

First Item

easily

[blazing cobalt]

You don't need any form of optimized build until the hydra

[pearl willow]

its variable. i've started runs with a good attack boon and hammer only to later get +casts and exit wounds and a nice cast and focusing on that instead.

[blazing cobalt]

And even then if you've got some sort of hard counter to it you're good up till theseus

[stuck whale]

So is double hammer basically just accepted as necessary? I think I've only been picking up one hammer each run because I like god boons and poms too much

[pastel jolt]

i mean, why would you not want a second hammer (haelian do not interact)

[rugged apex]

one hammer explosive return

[pastel jolt]

that..... would be the joke implied by saying "haelian don't interact", yes

[stuck whale]

Does the first upgrade you pick affect the second?

[pastel jolt]

they'll stack with each other

[stuck whale]

Right, but you won't unlock new upgrades based on your first, like with second and third level boons, right?

[pastel jolt]

no

it's just, here, have another hammer that also affects your weapon

[unkempt pagoda]

some upgrades do get locked off depending on your first hammer

[pastel jolt]

like, hey, you got heavy slug? wanna make that pierce and do +50% to armor? here you go, second hammer, have fun

oh your bow special pierces and deals more damage to armor? here, have more arrows in your bow special, go crazy

[signal viper]

is fated authority worth having a stack in, compared to just funneling the darkness into god's pride? it feels like rerolling rooms is less-than-useful more often than not, and having another 10% added to epic boon chance seems far more favorable

[pastel jolt]

go for gods pride first

fated authority is expensive as hell and is intended, probably, to be the last thing you pick up

[signal viper]

i do have the whole mirror unlocked

[pastel jolt]

no, dude, i mean that for the cost of two ranks of fated authority you could get every rank of god's pride.

[signal viper]

i've been trying to get mileage out of a single stack of fated authority but truly it's pulled through maybe once

whoops

[pastel jolt]

yes really

[signal viper]

oh heck really

very cool

[pastel jolt]

god's pride is a total of 2.5k darkness (so is olympian favour)

fated authority goes 1k / 2k / 3k / 4k / 5k / 10k / 20k / 30k / 40k / 50k

[signal viper]

and here i figured favor/pride went high enough for their max to seem out of reach

[pastel jolt]

nope!

OF goes to 50 ranks, GP goes to 25

50 or 100 darkness each

so what would you rather have: a single reroll, or +10% for any boon to be epic?

[signal viper]

is pride a more favorable choice to sink into than favor or is keeping them roughly even the way to go?

and yeah you've truly convinced me to drop fated for awhile now

[pastel jolt]

iiii think i went for favor first just because it was cheaper

but it was a while back that i was working on that, so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[signal viper]

fair

[pastel jolt]

i'm up to 4 rerolls

[signal viper]

with my current spare darkness i can go 8% into favor and max pride

[pastel jolt]

i'm not sure if it'd be better to max pride out or to go for favor first

[signal viper]

and now that i look at it i'm happier with that than the 16% favor 11% pride & a reroll i was doin before

[pastel jolt]

olympian favor is +50% rare chance at max, god's pride is +25% epic

[robust garden]

thanks sparrow for introducing me to the wiki and to boon requrements

i got the athena legendary last run

thanks to that

[pastel jolt]

👌 that's what it's there for

[atomic star]

Are witches intended to not have a health bar until you hit them one time?

[pearl willow]

man spear attack just deals no damage. even with athena attack and expose and weakness and sweet surrender and aphrodite dash and privileged status it still feels weak.

[heavy vapor]

I see what you did there

spear probably benefits most from static damage bonuses

ie; Zeus, Dio, Ares

rather than percentage based

[unkempt pagoda]

quick spin gang

[heavy vapor]

it just hurts to play on Gamepad cause all the thumb spam

[rugged apex]

guess what one of the few multiplicitive damage bonuses is! it's invigorating blast! ha ha ha ha ha.

i'm having so much fun.

[heavy vapor]

on Rail huh? hmm

[unkempt pagoda]

@rugged apex assuming invigorating blast is the rail special, it should have an indicator

[heavy vapor]

it does.

you get thundery

sparkly

[unkempt pagoda]

zag gets static around him, like with jolted

[heavy vapor]

oh I misinterpreted what you were trying to say

[rugged apex]

oh, does it?

it's not very visible, then.

[heavy vapor]

oh wait, no, I interpreted properly

[rugged apex]

yeah no that's not very visible in-combat

[unkempt pagoda]

if it doesn't show up at all, might be a bug

but it should look the same as jolted does

[rugged apex]

I see it now

but it's... not very obvious

[unkempt pagoda]

hades the game has a problem with too many effects on-screen and things that are hard to see

[rugged apex]

...okay I think invigorating blast is bugged in the annoying way

as in "you can dodge your own buff"

[heavy vapor]

idk if that's a bug

you don't have a hitbox while dashing

I mean, you could call it a bug

I think it's arguable.

[rugged apex]

i mean yes but that makes it much weaker

if you have to be not-dashing and inside the blast both

[unkempt pagoda]

it's not really much of a bug as it is an unfortunate nerf by way of game mechanics

[heavy vapor]

to me, bugs are things that are unexpected, given a set of rules or expected outcomes. but I get what you mean

another way of looking at it is whether the behaviour is intended

maybe they don't intend for that to happen, so yea, bufg

[rugged apex]

I understand why it could happen but it feels very unintended given how much the combat centers around dashing

[heavy vapor]

yea maybe.

[unkempt pagoda]

bugs, i think, are problems with the code

i'd put unintended stuff in feedback

[rugged apex]

I Guess

[unkempt pagoda]

did you mean to "X" your own feedback, btw?

[rugged apex]

yes. but that's mostly because I'm being petty for what are actually terrible reasons so

[steel yacht]

hey guys I'm thinking of buying this game but wondered what you'd rate it out of 10

[heavy vapor]

11

[wheat elbow]

I mean, I am that guy that has little to no respect for the bow

I am also the guy who celebrates getting tripple explosive shots

[heavy vapor]

they're all fine weapons; pick what you like playing with

[spice turret]

Just for fun, let's see what happens if I go in at max heat

[heavy vapor]

what is the max heat? 150? 200?

+400 darkness is huge though.

+400%**

you could barely scrape through tartarus, finish the fury fight and have like, 650 darkness.

maybe closer to 700 or 800 tbh

[spice turret]

It's 200, yeah

Got to Meg... Didn't make it past

Gonna switch up the strat, go for butterfly

[heavy vapor]

well. reliably clearing Meg would be where the money is

or the darkness, as it were.

[spice turret]

After all, if you get hit, you're basically dead anyway, so any run you win must be nigh-perfect anyway

[heavy vapor]

after that, who cares.

yea, sure.

not like 200 obols is gonna help you, or 60hp

you could also consider Orpehus trinket

bit more reliable, bit more damage upfront

[spice turret]

Mm...

The problem is, I run shield

[heavy vapor]

oh ok.

[spice turret]

Like, at high heat, exclusively shield

[heavy vapor]

I've been streaking 0 heat with rail

but I guess shield makes sense too

sisyphus?

pillars are big damage.

yea, if the goal is to clear meg, and you were using rail/bow, orpheus would be way better.

I'd love to watch your run though; seems spicy

[spice turret]

Mm...

I mean, here's the thing about Orpheus v. Than

On that mythical, successful 200 run, you have 6X damage, and no healing

In short, if you win that, you did it Nigh-perfectly.

Therefore, you must have done many perfect rooms

[heavy vapor]

right, but it takes time to build up

[spice turret]

I mean... fair

[heavy vapor]

whereas Orpheus is damage right now, guaranteed

helps you not die on the easier rooms

but yea, if you're shield, this is moot.

[spice turret]

Accurate

[heavy vapor]

unless you go for shield throws

are there any daedalus upgrades on shield that you avoid?

[spice turret]

Doesn't matter. Tenebrous veil means I don't get to choose

[heavy vapor]

oh right

what about in general?

[spice turret]

IDeally, I want Speedy charges, though

In general... IDK what god I'd even want...

[heavy vapor]

i don't think I'm ever unlocking veil. I like the draft portion of the game

I guess what I'm trying to ask is: are there any upgrades you wouldn't ever take?

[spice turret]

Not a big fan of, like, Mirage flight. It's not bad but it's kinda underwhelming. A lot of people like Powershot on the bullrush, but that's just not my style.

[heavy vapor]

powershot is fiddly

mirage flight's pretty defensive

but it only increases your damage moderately

[wheat elbow]

I can see why people like Megs Earring

That 40% damage is super noticable

But yeah, on the other hand, if you take Thanatos and just play perfectly, you are at Skull Ring territory after having cleared 16 rooms

Which would be around Elysium

[atomic star]

Yeah, I've decided this thesus and minotaur fight is not fun

Only way it's mostly vaiable is the hades rift dash since you spend 99.9% of the fight dashing around from all the ground effects, minotaur chasing you, thesus throwing crap at you

[atomic panther]

Pierced Butterfly can get to +30% just from Tartarus, which is insane

[wheat elbow]

Really?

Are there 12 combat rooms in Tartarus?

Felt like less

[heavy vapor]

meg's earring is decent

you want all the max hp in the world though

I suppose the Dio buff, and some choice rerolling of blue doors gets you there.

[wheat elbow]

Or you just want to never be hit again

Something else I noticed

Poseidon has this one boon where he increases the health gained from hearts, right?

Apparently, that does not work on the heart Thanatos drops

[errant narwhal]

nope

i guess its technically not a room reward

[heavy vapor]

that's probably a bug

[atomic star]

So this chaos curse: "For the next 2–4 encounters, each time you Attack, suffer -X Health."

It apparently also applies to "Dash Attacks". But it seems like most things in game that refer to Attack do not apply to "Dash Attacks", correct?

[errant narwhal]

i mean, why would it not?

[atomic star]

So like: "Afterward, your Attack deals +X% damage." does that count towards improving a dash attack

[atomic panther]

What applies to attacks but not dash attacks?

[errant narwhal]

dash attack is still pressing the attack button

you just press the dash button first

[atomic star]

So these boons:
A) Your Attack is 20% stronger, with +15% chance to deal Critical damage.
B) Your Dash Attack deals more +50% damage.

If I dash attack, and I have both boons. Will my dash attack do +70% more damage, or +50% more damage.

[atomic panther]

+70%

Any bonuses that apply to attack apply to dash attack as well

[robust garden]

oh it's additive

[cosmic heart]

which of these boons should i get

aphrodite's wrath, reduced damage by 10%, or the one that makes dead enemies inflict charm damage

[median ridge]

damage reduction i think. i wish aphrodite’s wrath was better but its in kind of a weird place right now of being useless against bosses

[pastel jolt]

i'd take the damage reduction, it adds up particularly once you're in elysium

[pearl willow]

i think the slain enemies weaken nearby enemies and deal damage is actually pretty decent, if nothing else it's amusing running around a bunch of brimstones and whittling them down only to finish one off and watch them all go pop.

[median ridge]

getting that aphrodite perk is nice in tartarus for dealing with numbskulls

especially with a bow

hit one and they all explode

[robust garden]

damn ares artemis duo boon is really strong

[flat stag]

i'm crying blood tears against theseus

[pastel jolt]

wrong roguelike ;)

[robust garden]

the ares duo boon cheesed theseus

it was fun

i won again btw!!

for the second time ever

i was trying to go for his legendary

but then i got epic

ill just show the pic

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/584425052825452554/584425354731454470/Hades_00009.png

im really proud of this

[atomic star]

I got stupid and greedy and chose the "damage when dash"

With how important dashing is, that's gotta be the worst curse

[wheat elbow]

Some weapons can pull that off just nicely.

Well, more or less.

You also just have to think fast. Dashing usually will cost you like 5 health?

You need to decide quickly to take that 5 damage over having half your face ripped off by Alecto

[reef topaz]

What's the req for hunting blades?

[pastel jolt]

ares cast + artemis attack, special, dash or wrath

[unkempt pagoda]

and you have to get the duo boon itself from artemis, ares doesn't offer it

[robust garden]

i got ti from ares

[unkempt pagoda]

huh, i remember reading that on the wiki

[robust garden]

yea i was offered him epic wrath that and a rare blade dash

[heavy vapor]

if you meet both requirements, either god can give you the duo

[atomic star]

Is there any sort of "total time played" metric anywhere

[heavy vapor]

man, lots of people think rail is underpowered huh

I'm not gonna complain about a buff to one of my favourite weapons

[atomic star]

To be honest, the rail is the only weapon i've been able to beat the game with

[heavy vapor]

but I honestly don't feel like it needs it

[atomic star]

I personally think the spear is terrible

[heavy vapor]

I've cleared with shield, gun and... maybe sword??

but I'm pacing myself with regards to sword and spear cause the RSI is real

spear probably is 1-2 animation polishes from being good/fun/decent/whatever

mostly to do with the spin

[atomic star]

what makes it good? i can't figure out what build or playstyle is clearable

I think I base all of my experiences with weapons on: "how the hell can i kill theseus and asterius" and my answer has always been "rail special or ares dash"

That fight has too much movement and damage mitigation.

Maybe the minotaur needs to take a breather every so often instead of constantly chasing you

[heavy vapor]

spear?

[atomic star]

yeah the spear

[heavy vapor]

spear, I think, is a versatile weapon

you have something for everything, but in return, it's a bit weak damage wise

if you're wondering about killing the beefy bros, you could look at dio or ares boon, cause you have a lot of reach

you probably have to get well versed in all the options spear has to make up for its low base damage

that's how I see it, anyway

I would play more spear but yea, RSI

[woven summit]

spear is quite hard to play, for the base damage are quite low and while attacking you are not so flexible

i once meet thesus using spear , having 310 and 3 life definace

and then i failed (LOL

quite lost patience in the end

[atomic star]

what ares stuff, and what are the general hammer upgrades you choose?

[heavy vapor]

doom, I meant

[woven summit]

for ares boons i prefer the dash and throw

attack affect doom i didn't use much

the wrath are quite interesting, for me just one chance to escape an attack from enemies

[heavy vapor]

thing is, throw doesn't work that well vs theseus

unless you're watching like a hawk

[woven summit]

yeah

i was looking for the hunting blade

but it didn't appear

💩

actually i prefer the bow

shot, jump, shot, jump

have a quite beautiful rhythm

[atomic star]

So the people that don't like the Rail, do they want infinite ammo baseline? Or like 24 instead of 12

[woven summit]

12 is quite enough

[signal viper]

imo the ammo is fine, it's the lack of mobility that hurts

[woven summit]

for you can dash and reload and continue shot

[signal viper]

at high heat you just don't have the ability to stand still and shoot for such low damage

[woven summit]

agree , so i always search for fixed base damage boons

like zeus , ares

and using the hammer can make the rail quite powerful

[atomic star]

just got a zeus lightning-on-attack with the rail, this is fun

[signal viper]

i suppose that's the big complaint; you need the hammer upgrades to give it a fighting chance

[atomic star]

The other problem is that the hammer really might dictate the type of build you go for

and getting it in elysium feels bad

[signal viper]

i'm personally a big fan of getting the posiedon special or the dio cast on it

but i haven't messed around with a lot of high heat yet

[woven summit]

yes it's quite annoying if i don't get a hammer. the rail's damage is so low , though i can slowly clear the chamber by dash special , one or two shot from time to time .it costs patience, actually

yeah the dio cast is quite interesting

[signal viper]

i guess it comes down to wanting flat damage boons for the attack but % damage boons for the special

[unkempt pagoda]

i think one question of balance that should be asked is: should weapons need a hammer to be viable?

[signal viper]

so it's harder to get a pleasant boon set w the rail as opposed to other weapons

[unkempt pagoda]

cause imo rail needs a hammer, while shield can do perfectly fine without one

[signal viper]

from other feedback i've seen all non-rail weapons do alright pre-hammer

spear is weak of course but that's another issue

[unkempt pagoda]

rip spear

[woven summit]

wow shield ,i play it quite bad

just wanna to block the attacks

and throw it

like captain america 😋

[heavy vapor]

well, maybe shield is too strong, if everyone's just comparing it to shield

or rather, comparing everything to shield*

alternatively, shield should be the baseline

and maybe we should compare it to that

[unkempt pagoda]

i guess the question is, should we bring weapons up to shield or shield down to other weapons

[signal viper]

shield is definitely the strongest but tbh i feel like it's not in a bad place

[woven summit]

wait ,shield is the strongest? idk

[atomic star]

What power level should the weapons feel like?

[woven summit]

how should i use shield😋

[atomic star]

I had a good "dash-attack" shield run one time, and threw it away on a chaos gate

[signal viper]

considering how hard it is to take down the elysium finale and how difficult elysium is in general i feel the rest of the board needs buffs

[unkempt pagoda]

bull rush > dash > pow

[atomic star]

Guess the question is, should the elysium boss fight get nerfed

[signal viper]

when i started using shield a did a lot of focusing on dash attacks and throws (with boons like ares special) and as i got more comfy with it i learned how to bull rush happily

[unkempt pagoda]

i'm not sure what power level it should be

[woven summit]

bull rush

[signal viper]

i only started w beefy but from what i've heard the hydra fight was much harder before it?

[lost rose]

it was harder....a while ago

[unkempt pagoda]

shield has amazing offence and the only one with built in defensive prowess

[signal viper]

so i imagine elysium boss time will be easier as more locations get added

[lost rose]

it's been several months since major changes were made to the hydra fight

[signal viper]

gotcha

[lost rose]

they added some telegraphing recently but that's it

[unkempt pagoda]

also RIP assault flight

[atomic star]

those skeletons on the hydra fight feel really out of place

[unkempt pagoda]

you were a real one

[atomic star]

it's like, i can understand multiple heads on a hydra fight; that makes sense. but where the hell and why are skeletons associated with it

[signal viper]

i mean, it is a skeleton hydra

[atomic star]

Well, yeah. But i mean.. "animal skelton" != "corpse skeletons formed into an animal skeleton"

[signal viper]

i think there's a certain level of equality that the dead share that the living lack

but we also don't really have other kinds of enemies for it to spawn

[atomic star]

i mean.. aren't the heads spawning enough mayhem for that fight?

[signal viper]

since it spawns just tinier versions of the basic skeles

[atomic star]

there's just way too much going on for a 2nd boss

[signal viper]

having ones that spawn minions gives you something to prioritize i suppose

they also act as barriers for the cast so i guess you could say they're the defensive ability amongst the heads

offensive being the wave blasts and passive being the other one

[tawdry sleet]

Wrong room Dori

Sorry

[atomic star]

Ares cast MVP on champion fight

[woven summit]

hunting-blade stands out

artemis-ares duo cast

[reef topaz]

Got it for the first time.... hooooooly crud it's effective

think I got a sub-30 on the last fight

[heavy vapor]

oh, I remember now

I was going to say, an hour ago that Rail doesn't leave you static if you do bursts of fire

sitting still and emptying your clip is a bad idea for two reasons

1. The obvious "You don't get to run and gun"
2. The Rail has spread. The longer you fire, the more innaccurate your shots are

the longer you fire continuously*

After maybe, 4-6 shots, you start seeing a bit of spread (maybe 5-10 degrees?), and then 8+ it's got a spread of about 20, 25 degrees

[pearl willow]

lol rando-'charmed' spearmen in Elysium just annihilated me again. i saw a hit for 750 and one for 600. at least i got them in a screenshot for a bug submission first. i think it's somehow caused by deflect.

[atomic star]

Anyone else annoyed by that "slow down effect" when a reward pops

I've gotten hit by random stuff

[heavy vapor]

I swear you're invulnerable when you get that slowdown

I like it; it signals that the encounter is over

I don't like that it takes years for it to pop up after the Asterius Mini Boss

[atomic star]

i'm not so sure you are

[wheat elbow]

@unkempt pagoda I just had a run where I got the duo boon hunting blades from Ares

[heavy vapor]

my sense of pacing when an encounter is over is pretty good, so I'm usually expecting the slowdown. Doesn't make it not a problem, just an observation

[median ridge]

in my experience you are invulnerable during the slow down

[wheat elbow]

I am sure that I have gotten hit by something in that duration as well.

And because I have that experience in the back of my mind, I always go jumpy scary when the slowdown happens while one of the Asphodel Enemies dropped a bomb under my feet.

[heavy vapor]

maybe it takes a while to kick in

either way, the slowdown means you get better time to react to projectiles, I suppose.

[ripe iron]

Some things hit you, some things don't during the slowdown I believe. I really like the gamefeel it adds.

[heavy vapor]

Ah it should be consistent then

I would be in favour of you not being invulnerable

[wheat elbow]

Someone had to test how traps are affected

I seem to faintly remember traps having hit me there

[misty rover]

A little question charged attacks don't work 100% if I quickly press twice and hold the attack button while using the shield

Sometimes it winds up the charge and others it doesnt

Is it that I dont know how to use it? Because it honestly feels frustrating like it doesnt detect you are trying to charge it by leaving the button pressed

It is like the margin for detecting the pressed input is too small after the attacks or while they are executed ( that or my xbox controller is a little shi**y )

[wheat elbow]

If I press the button, it charges, it usually works for me.

What I seem to have trouble with is that I sometimes can't release it as I wish. Especially when I aim somewhere to the right.

[atomic star]

"Rare" / "Epic" / "Heroic" / "Legendary". Do these refer to the "quality" of the boon, or the fact that some have a lower chance of showing up than others (e.g. legendary is a 5% chance, while common is a 85% whatever the numbers are)... or a bit of both?

[lost rose]

Rare and Epic have a lower chance of showing up

Heroic is only gained if you exchange an Epic-level boon

Legendary has prerequisites and is actually a "tier" of boon rather than a rarity

Rare and Epic basically provide higher "starting points" for the power of a boon

same for Heroic but again you can only get it in an exchange

You can see the prerequisites for legendary boons on the wiki

[atomic star]

So the fact that "Your Dash creates a Blade Rift where you started." doesn't show up all that frequently for me is just RNG; not the fact that it could show up more frequently if say I had lots of darkness and dumped in into the mirror.

[lost rose]

No, that's just a type of boon. Rarity is separate from the type of boon

The fact that you don't often get an Ares dash boon is partly RNG and partly based on what boons you take from other gods

Any given boon can be normal, rare, or epic when you go to accept a boon from a god; those rarity levels are about the "starting power" of the boon, before any pom upgrades

So you have a chance, on accepting a boon from a god, that a rare version of a boon will be available, and a smaller chance that an epic version will be available

Dumping darkness into the mirror or using a god's keepsake will affect how likely boons are to be of a rare or epic power level

[atomic star]

Could be just me, maybe the term "Quality" instead of Rarity could reduce the amount of confusion on the language of "% chance to show up"

But I know Rarity is also a term used in gaming a lot to mean the thing it means here about its "power level"

[lost rose]

I mean......it means its power level and its rarity though

If you said "quality" it wouldn't imply that there is in fact a lower chance to see rare or epic boons

If you said "quality" it wouldn't imply that there is in fact a lower chance to see rare or epic boons

[wheat elbow]

Another thing to consider how often boons show up are pre-requisites

Taking Zeus as an example, you need to have picked up one of his boons that deal lightning damage for other boons like Jolted to appear.

That means, of course, on the other hand, that if you for example pick up the Attack boon

you are now less likely to get the special boon because due to you having unlocked lightning, there are now other boons in the pool that you can access

If we go with the Zeus example, if you unlock the Chain Lightning, you have the possibility o getting jolted and/or improved chain lightnings which haven't been there before.

[potent quiver]

Third world spoiler sorta ||Any tips on how to beat the elysium boss(es)?||

[stuck whale]

Not bow

[atomic star]

Only way I've been able to do it is with the hades blade cast, or a hades dash

I had a rediculous +3 size, +4 damage hades cast the other run, and a total of 6 "cast mana" from Chaos and something else

[eternal stag]

athena boons + dionysus sick are the way to go for me

[stuck whale]

Poseidon's rupture is good on Asterius

[eternal stag]

titan toppler + dio special is just a good time in general

imo a dash upgrade is one of the best upgrades in this game given how much you're dashing

[atomic star]

Speaking of which, what the hell is the in game name of the red cast diamond

[eternal stag]

bloodstone

[stuck whale]

But that's usually used for when it pops out of enemies

Casts is probably the most accurate but confusing. Mana seems fine to me

[atomic star]

"Cast Ammo" is what the wiki has for it

[eternal stag]

i don't think it has a different name when it......hasn't come out of enemies? i thought that was just what it was called

bloodstone i mean

but i could be wrong

[potent quiver]

Uhhh what's hades blade cast and dash?

[unkempt pagoda]

what do you mean

hades doesn't give boons

@eternal stag no i think it just is called a bloodstone

[eternal stag]

yes that was what i was saying

[atomic star]

Ares sorry. I keep thinking Ares is Hades due to his red & black theme.

[teal helm]

@devout seal I was about to post something very similar re: Great Shields, but you beat me to it

[wheat elbow]

If you play without heat, you get to a point where ysou stop caring about what gods or match ups you have, you will make it through the third fight somehow.

One of the best advices I can give is making sure to have a wrath effect by the time you get there. That always helps dealing damage quick and/or give you a breather every now and then if it makes you invincible.

I usually try to get the wraths that make me invincible and/or only take 50 wrath to access.

I only took Dyonysus Wrath two or three times, but it somehow ended up melting thesseus for reasons I can't fathom. I bvelieve there may have been some kind of bug involved, but I can't confirm.

Also, make sure to have two statuses for prefered status. Getting that extra 50% damage on everything is huge.

Oh yeah, one more thing!

I focus Thesseus in every fight.

When I started playing, I used to go with the Beefyboy because he is much easier to kill, mostly because of Thesseus shiield being stupid. But then Thesseus would enrage and regular enemies start spawning and I wasn't about all that.

When I focus Thesseus, both bosses tend to go down at around the same time, usually seconds from one another. The Bull will keep getting close to you always anyways, so you will cleave them fairly easily like that.

Sometimes, horny boy still dies first despite that, but when it happens, Thesseus is usually just seconds away as well.

[heavy vapor]

if you leave Theseus high HP, he doesn't do his arena-wide AoE attacks

chariots only spawn once one of them is dead

[wheat elbow]

I don't mind the arena wide attacks though.

They are fairly easy to avoid, no matter the god

So I just had a very enlightening run, arguably the most tanky I have ever been in the game.

Shield with a focus on Athena

I had 360 HP, 6 extra life all worth 50% of my exp which would bring me to an effective health of 1440, a lot of percs that reduce damage taken in certain circumstances and Athenas wrath effect which just makes you invincible for, in my case, 6 seconds

On top of that, I had weakening, so enemies dealt even less damage in the first place.

ALSO

I had that one athena boon that makes you start a fight with 20% of your wrath gauge

I learned that said boon is actually OP for the Hydra fight because apparently, the game or at least the boon triggers every headspawn face as a new encounter and would give you that 20% wrath

[heavy vapor]

oh

does that work for other bosses?

it would be cool if it does

you get the wrath every new phase

[wheat elbow]

I tried to keep check while keeping on playing. It didn't seem to do it upon enemy respawns in regular chambers and as far as I can tell, the fight against the bull also did not have any gains.

On an unrelated note, even if we leave that to the side, that boon is very good. Only needing 30 wrath in order to get the machine going is very strong.

Zeus, Poseidon and Artemis also have boons that make getting wraths more frequently feasable, so I would like to get a run where these are all stacked and just make a game out of it.

[heavy vapor]

yea, I suppose so.

[haughty stream]

Shields make me incredibly sad. I love everything about this game except shields. In the enemies hands they seem deadlier by an order of magnitude compared to everything else. And the easiest runs ive had have all been with shield. Survive rooms are the best stand in corner hold button 45 seconds win.

[wheat elbow]

The Rising Of The Shield Hero, anyone?

Except in this game, shielders are also offensive powerhouses.

[plucky oxide]

The protection shield offers had always been its strongest trait, though back in the day it had quite a few faults to keep it in line with everyone else. The slow overtuning to keep it in line with the other weapons has made it incredibly powerful. The charge attack's changes in particular to damage and I-frames makes it the best contender against the latest act's bosses.

Spamming your charge Attack results in 90% uptime invincibility, allowing you to constantly move yourself about and deal damage to both with zero care for damage.

Part of why things like Ares-Aphrodite duo boon and Lifedrinker-sword upgrade were removed is that they make combat a little too linear. Lifedrinker allowed you to just keep attacking and ignore all enemy attacks and pattern recognition. Shield, for me, currently feels very similar to this.

[wheat elbow]

I mean, I wasn't there when Aresphrodite had a duo combo and lifedrinker sounds like basic lifesteal to me which sucks the fun and skill out of every game, so that is good riddance of course.

With that being said, the qualities of the shield are being tested as soon as you use the pact effect that makes enemies faster. That changes your meta game quite substancially, but contrary to others, the shield still gives you a feeling of being able to fight back

while a weapon like the bow is just being manhandled in comparison.

That being said, instead of the shield being nerfed, I'd rather see spear and bow being buffed.

Sword as well, but not too much.

Also, hammer boons need to be looked at imo.

Some of them are just needlessly bad like the fast sword or "you can now hold the attack button to spam spear. Kill your whirlwind attack goodbye"

[rugged apex]

yeah, fast attacks are usually worse than single big attacks unless you get zeus's attack boon

and even then they're nnnnot ideal

[placid pike]

Hey, don't go knocking fast attacks now. Speed sword is good since it has no lag compared to the regular jab or worldsplitter chop meaning you can dodge away faster if you overextended. The spear is great at stunning enemies with the regular jan, but it gets tiring just clicking the mouse again and again. So the speed upgrade is good for giving your finger a rest. Speedy bow is helpful if you have an hard time getting the timing right for Power Shots.

And that's just in general; with boons, they're a different story. Speed lets you stack more of Dionysus' posion, shoot more of Zeus' bolts, crit more with Artemis' since a faster DPS means more chances to crit, and have an impenetrable wall of Athena's deflect.

[potent agate]

Fast attacks are also better with Poseidon, because each hit is another wall-slam.

unless you're fighting a boss in which case knockback doesn't matter and you just Shouldn't Have Picked Those Boons, Lol

[plucky oxide]

I'm in the boat that weapon feel should be designed around base game and not heat. Build variety and weapon potential in heat runs is a whole other story.

[potent agate]

Oh for sure if you include heat then fast attacks get even better, yeah

[plucky oxide]

From what I've been seeing recently, most people's first runs completing the game have been on shield or hunting blades ares cast, degrand. Hunting blades and shield lack the same pattern recognition and learning that you usually need to take the time to learn. If shield felt more tactical in when/where you're blocking, and wasn't almost constantly up, this would bring the weapon a bit in line with the rest of the cast.

That and hunting blades is probably the most effective/passive ability out there, that doesn't require the player to interact with most of the enemies beyond basic kiting/running away.

If a weapon or easy boom combo can take inexperienced players through the entire game without proper game knowledge or investment, it begs the question of if the ability's potential is going against the grain of the rest of the game.

[atomic star]

I think it's showing how busted and out of tune these bosses are

[plucky oxide]

Lifedrinker's best method to beat the game was to constantly deal big dps, and soak up the damage done to you by outhealing your opponent. If shield's best method is to blindly keep attacking to negate 95% of the damage thrown your way, is there really any difference in these methods of facetanking? While shield is definitely more fun and requires a bit of timing/precision, there's not a lot of learning needed when coming across new enemies. Why learn Attack patterns when nothing can hit you?

I think the Theseus is a bit tough to deal with on most other weapons, mostly because they don't have particularly-well telegraphed openings. A lot of the match is based around massive unsafe zones, and demanding Zag to keep moving and kiting. But the game never implicitly gives you much in terms of 'hey! Theseus is taking a pause here! Attack him!'

[atomic star]

Well the problem is when Theseus is taking a pause, you have the minotaur up your ass

I think the minotaur needs more of a breather or the good ol "run him into the wall to knock him out for a good while"

[plucky oxide]

The most I can think of is mino's charge. Getting him to knock into something feels great, and I feel like I've got some control over when Mino is vulnerable. His telegraphed attack patterns are also much more clearly 'over', than Theseus.

Exactly!

[somber epoch]

i mean like, you can run him into the wall

dash through a pillar

[atomic star]

He barely stays knocked out

[plucky oxide]

I want MORE of that. More chances to open up Theseus and Mino.

[somber epoch]

i think it's really more of just a damage gate by this point

[plucky oxide]

If Theseus gets his spear stuck in a pillar, what if it took him some extra time to 'tug' it out. Things like that.

More openings = more damage output

[somber epoch]

i'd say there is a pretty likely chance the next major update retools the boss somewhat

[atomic star]

Hell, run the minotaur into theseus

make his shield fly away

[somber epoch]

but then theseus will ride on asterius' shoudlers

and the fight gets so much harder

[celest lake]

Finally got my first clear, the Zues/Dio duo boon is great!

But, it made me realize that Theseus can block lightning for some reason?

The instant turn speed is one thing, but why can he block attacks that come from the sky?

[wheat elbow]

I mean, if we take none-heat runs as a baseline, every weapon can get a clear.

Depending on your personal skill level, you may need to farm more than others and/or get a better understending on how the game works.

Remember that the game isn't supposed to be that easy, you are expected to die a lot and be laughed at by Hypnos and Hades for it.

I feel like if I would just play non-heated runs on my main account, I could just get a streak going on without much of a problem.

[plucky oxide]

Aye. Which is why im more in favor of tuning weapons around baseline. If a certain combo is so powerful that it can take a player from zone 1 to zone 4, where all their previous attempts could only take them halfway through zone 2, there's a problem. Especially so if they try the game again and can't get to zone 3 with any other combo.

[wheat elbow]

Hell, 40 to 60 should also be possible if I improve just a little bit.

I jmean, that is assuming that a new player get's close to the finish with the shield

as a new player

which I don't don't buy

[plucky oxide]

Alright! That's fine by me. It's just my speculation, after all.

[wheat elbow]

I can only talk from my own perspective here.

I agree the shield is strong, no denying it and I always have a solid ron whenever I pick it.

Rail would be my close second, but rail runs usually end up being much more entertaining because out of all the weapons, the rails boons are the most transformative overall.

On the other hand, bow and spear make me go "Uuuuurgh, why am I doing this to myself?"

While the game is supposed to be challenging, if I lose a run with the shield and/or the rail, I know that I earned that loss.

When I lose with bow and/or spear, I feel just frustrated over how mediocre they are, how mediocre they made the run, how much better the exact same run with other weapons would have been and feel miserable over it.

Meanwhile, the sword is "Press Q to win", which is it's own can of problems.