Not when most room choices are like, obol vs other run boon
#h1-builds-and-combat
pastel jolt
well yeah in that cse take the other thing
pastel jolt
sometimes i've skipped on a pom because of the reduction in pom effect meaning it's worth less to me than the other choice
heavy vapor
I guess Pom vs obol might be a bit of a choice yea
pastel jolt
also charon well buffs aren't to be sneezed at
i like more death defies, i like more attack or cast on runs where i'm using those, hell, if i'm doing badly even hydralite doesn't seem that bad an idea
heavy vapor
I agree but if a standard room reward is a boon and we value that at 150, i argue obol rooms should be at least that
Given that obol isn’t a choice vs like darkness or heat
pastel jolt
okay but in that case why not just award the boon there and then
like i said, there are other options for earning money
heavy vapor
But you’re not giving up the other money options if you take god boon
That’s not the choice presented
Urns don’t disappear from other rooms I think
pastel jolt
(sorry, i mistyped, meant to say boon not obol in that last one)
heavy vapor
Oh. Ummm
pastel jolt
if you think the reward needs to be increased then put it in #hades-feedback , that's what that channel is there for
but honestly i think 75 is a good number for it
heavy vapor
What do you mean? I see obol room as delayed reward. You risk being weaker for at one room; I think maybe it should be increased to compensate.
Yea I was thinking that
Just wanted to ask first to make sure I wasn’t making a bad suggestion
Like maybe Elysian obol rooms are 300 or something and I didn’t know
pastel jolt
what would the point in that be
heavy vapor
Higher risk higher reward presumably
Elysian is more difficult than Tartarus
More likely to die if you’re underpowered
pastel jolt
yeah but 300 is more than any charon item actually costs
the priciest thing in there is 200 and that doesn't come up that often
heavy vapor
yea, I was just spitting out random figure.
it was a "Well, maybe this is how it works, and I don't know because I've not got 10000 hours in it"
figured I'd ask before I look absolutely crazy, y'now
pastel jolt
my assumption is that money is supposed to be fairly limited to counter the fact that i could, if i had the cash, buy a pom and a boon in a single room
heavy vapor
sure, but you had to do at least one room without either boon or pom
pastel jolt
we're arguing in circles here, buddy
heavy vapor
maybe cause I'm not being clear enough or something. idk
heavy vapor
I knew I was missing something. Charon's shop is a blue reward. Ie it competes with Darkness and Heat
heavy vapor
wait no it doesn't; disregard
finite grail
also worth noting poms only give you 3 upgrade choices so you might skip a boon in order to not thin out your pool of upgrades
pastel jolt
that too
vale sphinx
I sometimes take money over a boon from a god I don’t really want
silent sable
Money is one of the few ways to get your health back so it's very valuable, when I feel like I am not doing well I like taking the Chabol choice, so I know it's like around 50+ health, or a death defiance etc. Like said previously you can get money in a lot of different ways, killing enemies, finding pots, chests "trials", even boons choices. A lot of different ways too to scale the money you find, not really hard to get to a +200% coins in a run, which is really op. I don't see any problem with +75 coins reward, I think it's really well balanced. And you know in a rogue-like not everything has to be fair and choices don't have to be perfectly equal to another, it's what makes it fun that sometimes you take it, sometime you don't :)
dusky gyro
small question, is it normal for aphrodite rage to turn around shieled dude (foes and boss)
?
polar plank
from my limited experience using aphrodites charm they always turn away from me
pearl willow
i generally consider heart > obols > pom unless im doing a cast build in which case 1-2 poms is pretty nice. i like obols a lot though - almost more because of the wells rather than charon's actual shop. i've found that i really like swapping to bone hourglass after fury, buying everything i can from the shop, asphodel and then from the shop after hydra before swapping trinkets so that a lot of the buffs extend into elysium.
atomic star
Just started playing the game after picking it up during the epic games sale. Is part of the "gameplay" trying to figure out what the icons on the doors mean?
frank dew
to a degree but theres not many of them so its pretty fast
and most are fairly self explanatory like the lightning bolt or heart
pastel jolt
coughs and points at the pinned posts in this very channel
vale sphinx
Ok to people who like bow attacks - how do you bow attack? Like, it feels so slow when you compare it to everything else, I normally go for special shotgun builds, but like ???
Only seems kinda reasonable on rapid fire hammer
somber epoch
dash attack makes bow charge faster
vale sphinx
Hm
pearl willow
yeah, bow is generally dash attack dash attack and you just get in a rhythm
vale sphinx
Zeus/Artemis special + Q from the back seems wildly more effective
vale sphinx
I mean different strokes I guess :D
I’m more of a “press a button - see stuff explode” kind of person
pearl willow
i like athena special just to handle large packs of witches but otherwise i rarely use bow special. leaves you rooted for too long for my taste.
median ridge
i only tend to use it defensively against projectiles. otherwise it messes with my attack rhythm
somber epoch
always mirror all the time
dull berry
hmmmmmmmm
soft surge
I would love to see a skill tree for Hera, based on tricking your foes and the other gods and a high mobility high risk skill set for Hermes
vale sphinx
We’re getting more gods?
median ridge
eventually
kindred wren
apollo might still be mourning hyacinth
errant narwhal
and the game might still not be done :P
frank dew
well zag can be his rebound 😛
median ridge
has anyone tried an all-revenge boon build?
The “whoever lays a hand on me shall Perish” build
heavy vapor
You’d need a lot of damage reduction. I don’t think Athena legendary counts for revenge
Or use a chaos boon/penalty
agile bronze
Anybody know if it's possible to get the 80 damage single shot Hammer upgrade on the Rail, and also get the upgrade that makes it so you don't have to reload?
Or are they mutually exclusive?
pastel jolt
mutually exclusive, i'm afraid!
the wiki page for each weapon lists which upgrades don't appear together
agile bronze
Butts. I've been trying to get them together for ages.
pastel jolt
@stuck whale - there's no special animation but the charge time is noticeably faster on the dash attack for bow
stuck whale
Gotcha. An extra flash or something would still be nice! Even though there's a lot of flashing with the bow already
Thanks though! I'll keep an eye out
pastel jolt
yeah, if you just nyoom around and take a few potshots at skelly it's easier to notice
heavy vapor
Nyoooom
Also the hammer shot on Rail reloads automatically
Having never reload would not be much benefit I think
Especially because you can currently dash during the reload
stuck whale
Nyoomin is all I do in this game
Idk, I like the no reload, because it marks one less thing I have to think about as I'm scrambling
heavy vapor
Yea fair enough
stuck whale
Does anyone else feel like Aphrodite's boons are noticeably worse than anyone else's? Weak feels like the least powerful status effect, and most of her boons don't do much more than inflict Weak
shadow peak
I'm not sure I can tell either way while I'm playing, but the wiki says that weakened enemies hit for 50% less damage, which sounds useful to me. Dionysus is the one I don't know how to use effectively, honestly...but I am definitely not very strategic so uh, don't necessarily trust my opinion, lol.
rugged apex
aphrodite's boons are stronger than they look because weak is massive
pastel jolt
love that empty inside buff to damage 👌
stuck whale
It's funny that you mention the boy because I was just going to say if I want to survive, Dionysus (and obviously Athena) are both better picks. After Party is the best boon in the game imo, and there's nothing better than poison for an "oh no oh no oh no" game, because you can run around while it's doing its work. And Positive Outlook is better than Another League, at least for me, because I spend most of the game hovering around 50% health
Wow! Didn't realize it was that big! That makes me feel better
rugged apex
dionysus's sick effects are also stronger than they look - 3 damage every 0.5, stacking to 5 times, stacks up to 30 damage per second
stuck whale
Sick and Blade Rifts seem like the best effects right now
I guess Ares' is Doom, not BR
mystic haven
Anyone finding the bosses of Elysium just damage sponges. I had a lot of weakness, boosted attack, deflect special, and sick dash, and they could just keep taking it all and wearing me out of two whole extra second-chance charges.
stuck whale
Still, I'd rather do damage or have help not getting hit than take less damage, so Aphrodite is still pretty low
heavy vapor
Aphrodite does do extra damage
You get both.
The base damage boost is highest out of all the boons I... think?
It’s higher than Athena’s I’m reasonably sure, if you ignore the crit part
Sick is good because Pom will upgrade it without diminishing returns
rugged apex
aphrodite's is above athena's boosts - and I'd say below ares/zeus/dion though it's harder to calculate that
heavy vapor
Oh I’m just taking the pure damage part. It’s easy to forget she boosts damage as well as weakens
Does Poseidon boon affect the max hp you get from centaur heart, or just the current HP? Like if you pick one up, do you get 37/37 or 37/25?
Assuming it’s the 50% variant
Can’t remember the name of the boon off hand
stuck whale
Athena's cast and dash are really good, but all her other options... Aren't
heavy vapor
Not a fan of marked?
I don’t mind the crit stuff if I’m running Sword and get the thrust crit upgrade
stuck whale
That's Artemis
But yeah, she's my favorite god but crit is on the weak side, I agree
wheat elbow
I mean, Athena depends on the level of play you are going with.
She has a couple of boons that can be just great.
The one where she gives another extra life + extra health back per extra life
Assuming you have 3 extra lifes from the mirror and all of them are active when you receive the boost, picking it up is basically a 80% max health increase
which is huuuge
And it also combos very well with effects like Bacchus protection and/or Megs Earring that trigger once you are below 40%, basically giving you close to maximum uptime on these for an extended duration
Also, Athenas Special is simply amazing with the Sword and pretty great with the Bow as well.
Not sure if any of you have ever played Enter The Gungeon, but Sword Special + Athenas Special Boon = A broken blank
pearl willow
athena is basically the best all around imo. just provides a strong balance of offense and defense and even if you aren't using athena abilities her +DD boons are always handy. Last Stand has been the difference between victory and failure on at least a few runs for me.
plucky oxide
Athena is my pick of choice in last zone, mostly because of the insane value found in Last Stand
rugged apex
hmm... should poseidon's ocean's bounty increase all rewards, rather than just room rewards?
tawdry sleet
what weapons and boon gods are considered strongest this patch if any?
Asking for a friend 👀
rugged apex
athena, shield/bow, ares+artemis duo boon
rugged apex
dash, unless the rush is sudden rush
rugged apex
no
a combination boon between the two gods
either can offer it, if you have the requisite boons
pearl willow
shield with artemis attack + marked application, athena dash and exposure and shield charge powershot is pretty nuts. just charge back and forth and crit for potentially 800 something.
wheat elbow
Gonna be real with you
Shield explosion special is neat and all
But I don't think it is as good as the hype implies
But that is just me loving the Bull Rush way too much
Shield Run with Poseidon/Zeus may be one of the most entertaining runs I have ever had.
Shield has a lot of knock up by itself, so Poseidon Attack + a bunch of knock back modifiers like Raptur just kept increasing the ridiculousness of that
At some ppint later, on the isle boat of asphodel, I got the Zeus/Poseidon Duo, they even had a funny interaction going on where Zeus played out the "Bigger brother card", hilarious
And the boo would trigger lightning whenever I'd knock back an enemy
Which in turn would trigger a lot of Zeus' extra effects
Which would also allow just my regular attacjks to apply two debuffs
pearl willow
absolutely annihilated theseus and minotaur lol, that was nasty. saw i think over 1200 once or twice when everything lined up correctly.
wheat elbow
I haven't seen that ,uch damage in a single hit yet
but the occasssions where I pick crit and make it really far tend to be somewhat rare.
tawdry sleet
eyyyyy
second run since February
and I got through it 😄
Thanks for the advice @rugged apex
vestal fjord
Hey, it's been a while since I played - how do you report bugs again?
grand patrol
f10!
vestal fjord
Thanks!
copper berry
I come from the future to tell you that shield explosion is worth all the hype.
pearl willow
still havent used it but i think spear explosion is really fun and reasonably effective
glass ledge
So I don't really see the appeal of going deep into poeseidon boons if he's only going to offer knockback stuff when none of that works against bosses. If I can't wall slam theseus, or bat asterius away, what is the point of even having poeseidon boons over aphrodite or something?
Is there a benefit?
pearl willow
It's got naturally high damage and you can still apply Razor Shoals to bosses which can do reasonable damage over time and help apply Privileged Status. Plus there's something to be said for it just being pretty good at handling Exalted.
stoic berry
I just had a crazy shotgun run with the rail, I was getting so many damage reduction boons and was just able to shred everyone, first win with the rail too :D
https://imgur.com/a/LOH3vu7
shadow peak
Oh man I just reached the current final boss for the first time... And then I beat them. I'm really hyped rn
atomic star
Just started playing; not sure if this is valid feedback or not. Seems to me that the wrath system should be something that is always there, and not triggered by a boon. Maybe the boon changes or empowers it
But maybe there's something later on that always lets you have it that I haven't unlocked.
somber epoch
@atomic star each god has a different wrath
atomic star
Yeah, maybe it doesn't make thematic sense. Just seems odd that a mechanic like that isn't always around, and you have to boon into it
Like I was thinking some sort of wrath you had starting out with and then booned into changing it
But seeing as it resets each room, i have not had any luck in even activating it.. so maybe it's a boss only thing
plucky oxide
The devs tuned down its occurance quite a bit, mainly in an effort to balance its usage in the newest area of the game. As a result, without the proper boons to augment your wrath (beyond the first investment in a god's wrath), your likelihood of getting a wrath off mid-fight is highly unusual.
atomic star
It seemed like an interesting mechanic, it's a shame there couldn't be some sort of balance to make it somewhat prevalent and empowering, but not too OP
plucky oxide
I would prefer if Wraths had more presence in the game, even if that meant greatly reducing their initial potential, and instead rewarding additional investment in wrath-oriented boons.
atomic star
But this is in pre-release, maybe this is the sort of feedback and testing that is required
plucky oxide
Indeed. The fact that they just tweaked the wrath-gain is testament to that statement. It's still in the works, and one of the newer mechanics they've added. I believe there are already a few who have spoken up about the state wraths are in within #hades-feedback
heavy vapor
They don’t feel as impactful as they should for how much effort it takes to get one off before Elysian
plucky oxide
Nice profile pic btw Toan(). Wonderful game))
heavy vapor
C: cheers mate
plucky oxide
I'd like to see some of the gimmickier stuff I've seen in other games come out of Wrath, like 'this Wrath has an x% chance of refilling your wrath at the end of its duration'
An Athena boon that charges up your wrath whenever you deflect a projectile; an effect that could also last WHILE you're currently Wrath-ing.
forest marsh
It certainly would be cool if the Wrath gauge filled up only by using that god's related abilities
lost rose
hmmmm
forest marsh
Rather than straight damage like it does now
plucky oxide
That'd be really neat. Hard to balance between the group, especially since some effects tick so often while others rarely at all. Would give each highly unique flavors, though.
Blight wine filling up really fast when many enemies are sick at the same time, etc
forest marsh
They'd certainly have to be balanced per-god
heavy vapor
It’s just a numbers game at that point
pearl willow
Wrath is already very good, it's just kind of misaligned how the two that require 100 wrath are (imo) the weakest. Love having Ares/Athena/Poseidon though and Aphrodite is fine enough.
rugged apex
I have six bloodstones and I have no idea what enemies are doing
mostly because I can't see them under all this fog
scratch that I have seven bloodstones now. for a little while, at least.
forest marsh
You're playing a game of Hades-Go-Seek now
rugged apex
it's a party. I am super drunk and everyone else is super drunk and nobody can see anything.
my framerate hates me though.
unkempt pagoda
oh no
atomic star
On my controller, R doesn't seem to reload the rail.
Is this a known issue, or am I doing something wrong
rugged apex
okay back to seven bloodstones
nevermind
this is almost unplayable I can't see enemies doing things
forest marsh
I'm unsure what controller you're using, but the default is R3, which is achieved by pushing in the right stick
atomic star
ah .. R3, yeah that was it. Was using a switch pro
forest marsh
I find that awkward though, and I rebound mine to L3
But that's on an Xbone 1 controller
atomic star
i just rebound gifting to some button i never press. having them right next to each other was just asking for disaster
rugged apex
I did not win versus T&A. ow. it turns out it's hard to dodge if you can't see windup animations
I did kill shieldboy and almost got the minotaur but a chariot I couldn't see got its teeth in me.
300+ crits with tipsy shot are pretty fun but I really wish I had managed to get zeus+dion's duo boon...
heavy vapor
I bound Cast to LB and reload to L3, and I think it works better
also easier on my thumbs
atomic star
So almost all of the cast boons alter it so that the "damage is increased with <> on them" is useless?
and it seems it doesn't apply to bosses
atomic star
Just picking up the game, it seems like mirror should be a flat out damage increase. Seems like putting stuff into the mirror should help get you a little further each time. Was it always +backstab damage?
lost rose
let's see, athena attack, artemis special buffing a vicious skewer hammer upgrade on the spear, zeus cast, athena wrath, all crits buffed with artemis' clean kill and (i think) extra armor damage, plus what's probably a special buff from chaos
Actually a lot of people have expressed frustration with the mirror saying it's weird to have permanent upgrades at all
it's always been +backstab, yeah
atomic star
Oh, i actually like the mirror, it's the main reason I played this game. I like the incremental upgrade games
Not a huge fan of slay the spire where it's just "different"
lost rose
the mirror's seen some tweaks - the most major ones included removing a life drain ability, and adding the darkness sinks of fated authority and the two boon rarity modifiers
boiling blood was also a...recent-ish? addition
to try to give casts more utility
i'd imagine SGG is trying to walk a line where upgrading the mirror does make things go marginally smoother - those money and life boosts help out a lot, not to mention death defies - without removing the fact that RNG is still the major determination of what your run will look like
atomic star
Is the pact of punishment mostly used for difficulty (muscle flexing)? or is it used to farm for the mirror?
pastel jolt
it’s meant to make the game harder
the darkness boost was actually added to it later
heavy vapor
how far does fated authority and boon rarity go?
I've been playing with a decent amount of heat in capping darkness and it's quite fun
not everyone is a fan of roguelike progression (ie there isn't any). I'm ok with permanent progression, but also no external progression
pastel jolt
fated authority goes to ten rerolls but gets vastly more expensive
as in, 165,000 darkness for all ten
heavy vapor
yikes
pastel jolt
50 ranks on rare boon increase and 25 on epic boon increase, both of them are 2500 total
pastel jolt
fated authority is there to be a darkness sink for those of us who have been playing since the beginning and have nothing else to spend darkness on
heavy vapor
I do like that supergiant's always been big on modulating your own difficulty
though, I think there were few ways to make bastion easier? maybe.
wonder how other people set up their heat
visual lintel
If I play with heat I typically increase enemy speed, amount and damage done. I avoid anything that makes enemies tankier since to me that's tedious
lost rose
i played with heat to get the statues and haven't used it since lol
i have enough trouble with elysium as it is
pastel jolt
before elysium i did have enemy damage and health maxed out trying to get statues
never managed it though
visual lintel
Last couple of runs have been just farming for stuff so no heat, still missing 20 keys, have to step up lol
heavy vapor
smough and ornstein are a massive difficulty spike
I can be smashing elysium and still be "hmmmm" about those two
meanwhile hydra feels like a step down
hydra even has some food pots, just in case
visual lintel
Agree
lost rose
to be fair, the hydra fight has existed since the game launched
it's had 6 months of tweaks added to it
lost rose
no i get you
just saying, part of this process is that things like that are constantly getting polished - if you have strong feelings about something, you should leave feedback!
i expect the theseus and asterius fight will see some changes as time goes on
heavy vapor
to be honest, if I had to make a suggestion, increase damage of the other heads, remove the invulnerability on the main head. Allow us to damage race it.
or if not increase damage, some other way of enticing you to balance killing the heads vs dealing big damage
lost rose
heheheh, well
all of the bosses have invuln phases/periods so that at least is in line with everything
heavy vapor
I don't have strong feelings because I'm uncertain how accurate my experiences are.
lost rose
and back when the hydra didn't have invuln phases people were destroying it in like, seconds
heavy vapor
could always increase its HP or something to compensate. who knows. I only design games as a hobby
lost rose
i feel like the heads are sort of supposed to serve that purpose - the main head doesn't have as much health as theseus or asterius, but the main head plus all the smaller heads combined comes closer to "boss" levels of health, it's just spread out.
especially with the armor, eugh
heavy vapor
the random invuln on bosses confuses me still though. It's not telegraphed heavily, and in the minotaur's case it's pretty random
Asterius. whatever.
Asterix
lost rose
yeah that's definitely something that i've seen a lot of feedback about haha
it's an hp-based phase thing but should definitely be clearer
heavy vapor
I can understand it on the... third fury. When she has the protracted magical space warp
that way you don't bug it out and kill her while the cutscene is playing
but otherwise it's a mystery to me right now. Maybe I'm just dum dum
lost rose
asterius and theseus switch to a second phase at 50% hp and change their attack patterns
it also happens in asterius' miniboss room
visual lintel
To me the Duo has too much health, but I don't know if it's due to me not having fought them that much or me just screwing up my builds or something else
lost rose
no they're definitely super tanky
heavy vapor
they definitely have an insane amount of HP
lost rose
it's actually even less than it was and it's still kind of absurd
heavy vapor
or damage reduction. either way.
lost rose
nah it's a health pool not damage reduction
i don't remember what the current figures are
they might be on the wiki
heavy vapor
ah ok.
lost rose
it used to be a combined 31,000 hp
heavy vapor
yikes
lost rose
yikes is right
heavy vapor
I mean, I'm getting better on their patterns
visual lintel
No wonder it feels like a slog :D
heavy vapor
mmm.
lost rose
you can take asterius' health down a good bit by facing him in the miniboss room
but.
yeah
heavy vapor
oh huh. TIL
if that happens, it should show up as missing health in final room
to clearly telegraph it
lost rose
it does
visual lintel
I think the miniboss encounter takes him to something like 2/3 health IIRC
heavy vapor
oh. I didn't notice in my fight. maybe I'm just blind
visual lintel
In the main boss fight I mean
lost rose
they also upped the threshold for him giving up in miniboss rooms which is a godsend
heavy vapor
haha.
lost rose
hydra's health is...
heavy vapor
I'm not having fun fighting hydra
lost rose
7000 on the main head and 1200 on each smaller head (700 HP, 500 armor)
so considering there are...12 hydra heads
lost rose
that's 7000 plus 8400 just of HP
15,400, then the additional uhhh 6000 of armor
21,400. so, comparable to theseus and asterius
in the same zip code
but there's more variation and it's not as punishing
heavy vapor
hydra doesn't do as much damage, isn't as aggressive
lost rose
yeah
lost rose
and you get a break when you take out the smaller heads
visual lintel
I feel like the spear throw of Theseus is super inconsistent with its tracking/lock-on times
heavy vapor
as in, it varies?
visual lintel
Yep
heavy vapor
reasonably firm disagree; it's been pretty consistent to me
lost rose
really theseus' shield is what gets me in that fight more than anything
heavy vapor
but it may well be.
lost rose
i wish we could guard break
a guard break mechanic would also make zag's shield less broken
and the shield exalted in elysium
visual lintel
Hence the feeling, it's just probably me not being super comfortable with the fight yet
lost rose
who are currently just, absurd
heavy vapor
mmmm
visual lintel
Agree with the guard break. Or at least chip damage or something
lost rose
and i definitely want that to apply to zag's shield too because like i said right now it's kind of ridiculous
with invuln during the entire bullrush
heavy vapor
maybe have shields block instances of damage instead
like, you get 5 blocks per time you activate it or something.
ehh nah I don't like that
lost rose
yeah, either instances or amounts
heavy vapor
maybe amount.
lost rose
impactful attacks should stagger or break
like a fully charged bull rush
or a backstab
heavy vapor
if it's instances, exagryph doing plinks would break shields fast which makes no sense hahaha
lost rose
i imagine it'd be a pretty complex change to make to the combat system tho
they've kinda been working in "it either hits you or it doesn't" so far
heavy vapor
yea possibly.
lost rose
yeah no i'm just saying
heavy vapor
there's a lot of possibilities
lost rose
sorry that was more of a "it's not necessarily a quick fix" thing
heavy vapor
ah yea, nah
I'm just not super comfortable talking about hypotheticals cause it's like "who knows?"
you know?
lost rose
yeah i gotcha
and ultimately it's up to them
i think someone mentioned guard break in feedback a while back
heavy vapor
I'm ok with anything. I don't have the time or energy to write a long winded bad review or whatever complaining about every little thing
if I don't like it, I'll just not play and that's probably ok
lost rose
https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/525022184280948736/575897408303792158
most people seem to agree lol
lost rose
it's fine if you don't want to nitpick or anything! just discussing, y'know? and people like to vent frustrations. those are sort of the whole point of the server - if you don't like something you can speak up about it, or share with others, same for if you really like something!
but it's optional of course
heavy vapor
yea
though, if I get frustrated with something, I wonder if I'm doing it wrong
a la the Obols thing last time
lost rose
sometimes that might be the case, but frustration can also be a sign that something's not working right in the game, so don't beat yourself up too much
heavy vapor
well like, currently I'm pondering Dash boons, and Wrath boons
visual lintel
Deflect Dash <3
heavy vapor
there doesn't seem to be much that builds with it
they're very support oriented and yet....
they compete with the primary/secondary boons
my gut feeling is that I'm misunderstanding something fundamental about them
lost rose
what do you mean by compete?
heavy vapor
so the way I think about this game is in relation to games that are similar before it. To me, it's predominantly about choices
so when I say compete, I mean that when you get a boon, you typically choose between an attack upgrade, or the dash
(and other things besides)
by taking the dash upgrade, you give up an attack upgrade (for simplicity's sake)
they're mutually exclusive for that one boon
for things that are easily comparable (dionysus dash and his attack), it feels like the dash isn't worth it unless you would rather skip the boon
something like deflect dash or weakness is harder to evaluate
and to elaborate further, it's fine to have things that are obviously weaker than the others; I would then expect that there are circumstances where the weaker option is actually better
that expectation is the feeling I get of "Oh, I'm misunderstanding something about this choice."
this sort of mindset probably is most relevant in card games, but works too for roguelikes so there we are
(hopefully that's clear enough)
visual lintel
The situations where the dash upgrades are better are probably when you are missing an aspect that the dash upgrade provides that you feel you need on your current run. Dashes might have to be weaker due to the relatively low cost of using a dash: if the effects are too strong, you just dash all over the place being invulnerable and dominating.
visual lintel
1 additional dash. I still feel pretty untouchable if I can just dash all over the place
heavy vapor
i-frames is a good argument though
I guess then it's just disappointment that a "dash build" gets one nowhere
that's probably a good thing that you need to experiment? mm.
visual lintel
Personally I think one of the key draws a game like this has is the experimentation and finding the combinations of upgrades/weapons etc. that work for you
heavy vapor
I mean yea, that's fun
visual lintel
I think a dash build is workable. Just need the right boons for it. I'd try to build it around sickness dash myself, have to try it out.
Is there a Doom dash? If so, then that.
visual lintel
Oh yeah, forgot it was the rift
lost rose
the blade rifts can be pretty powerful when buffed
if you get the additional ares boons that increase the size and give them vacuum power lol
plus poms to raise damage per tick
artemis' hunting blades duo gives tracking
visual lintel
Duo boons mechanic was completely new to me, at least I haven't ever realised coming across it if I have. Also have to probably try rift dash build, will see after finishing current run
frank dew
The Artemis boon doesnt apply to rifts caused by the dash
Only the cast rifts are effected
heavy vapor
there's only 6? duos
in my experience they're not significantly better than regular boons of the same rarity
which I guess means "normal"
heavy vapor
anyone here really like Coronacht?
I'm trying to figure out which boons are best for the explosive shot side-grade
heavy vapor
wow it's really bad vs theseus
you can't powershot vs him with explosive
went out of my way to stack up both hammer buffs on attack, and had +93% attack Athena buff
full powershot was about 400-450
but he doesn't expose his back for long enough even with dash attack
so that was disappointing
visual lintel
I love Coronacht, the dash-shoot gameplay really appeals to me. But yeah, sucks super bad against Theseus. I just quick tap if I take the explosive sidegrade, still should deal higher damage than a normal powershot, especially if you have Artemis' dash attack bonus
pastel jolt
theseus also doesn’t guard during his attack animations,if you’re feeling gutsy enough to risk it
pearl willow
i generally find explosive shot to be on the slow side as well, not very fond of it
atomic star
So from time to time I'll see a boon locked behind a price of 25 skulls. Do I spend 25 skulls to get that upgrade (obviously for that run), or did it require 25 skulls to be added into the infernal contract? I'm nowhere near having that many, at about 6 right now. Just curious.
pearl willow
those can be accessed if you are currently playing with that many skulls (heat) currently active in the pact of punishment. they are not consumed when you enter.
covert grove
Explosive Return busted? First speedrun under 10 minutes here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bQQtbg6IaI
pastel jolt
haelian, has anyone ever told you how much you sound like royce?
covert grove
No who dat
pastel jolt
royce as in royce bracket, transistor character
covert grove
Oh snap I forgot about him, he's the villain right?
pastel jolt
one of
...so long as we keep it under wraps from Supergiant
[goes and posts it in the official discord]
gg
covert grove
Whoopseedoodle
pastel jolt
i feel like ER deserves to be powerful considering the way to make the most of the damage is to, uh, stand in the middle of enemies and potentially take a lot of hits to the face
covert grove
Explosive return definitely has some oddities. I had some runs where enemies were getting the Sick curse even though I didn't have a dionysus boon
pastel jolt
.....huh. i wonder if it's related to the clip someone posted in tech support
they said they were getting crazy damage from sick if enemies were in the explosion
unkempt pagoda
wow that's sick
pastel jolt
atomic star
I feel like choosing the Olympian keepsakes are kind of lackluster.
It could be cool to be able to choose an Olympian one, and something else. You kind of "champion" an olympian per run
plush blaze
I got a summoning circle in the first room for the first time ever 🤔
The enemy spawn circle thing
rugged apex
aw dang, support fire is really bugged...
rip. bug report time.
(the feedback isn't the bug fyi)
(the bug is that it only fires projectiles on attack if you hold the button way longer than you would normally)
wheat elbow
Just uploaded my first full clear onto youtube, feeling good.
Adamant Rail remains to be one of my favorite weapons in the game by far
atomic star
My only run I got to the 3rd biome was with the rail in "single-fire-mode"
wheat elbow
I put the link into the self promotion channel. The run I made it through with was all over the place
rugged apex
ah, having over a thousand effective HP and spearpoint... I'm just invulnerable at that point!
wheat elbow
Add some weakening on top of that
stuck whale
What's the consensus on strong vs weak weapons? Are they all pretty balanced, except for shield which is good at everything?
Bow feels strong, sword feels weak, but that might just be my playstyle
rugged apex
spear is current weakest, shield is strongest, the rest are all about equal
heavy vapor
Spear is a bit annoying really
The spin attack has a very long recovery
And then my thumb hurts from playing Dio attack with spear
I guess ares would work too
somber epoch
@turbid needle wrath generation was changed in the most recent major update and is a bit worse now
atomic star
I don't know, I always felt the spin attack took too long to charge up to be useful on spear.
somber epoch
So they are still tinkering with it
atomic star
I never use it because i'm constantly swarmed by enemies.
median ridge
spin attack is not good lol. the fact that it can be interrupted by taking damage and it has such a long charge time means i never use it
and you have to be surrounded by enemies for the damage aoe to make sense to use
heavy vapor
The spin windup feels fine to me
It’s the recovery time
You can’t dash for a long tome after
median ridge
the recovery time is also super bad
somber epoch
The best way to use spin attack is while enemies are spawning you start charging
heavy vapor
Yea there’s that too
But even the first level spin is fine
It does the same damage doesn’t it? Just smaller radius
median ridge
the windup for the bow is fine because you can be very far from enemies while it charges
for spin attack you have to be very close
atomic star
What is "lap running"? "They took out lap running in Asphodel, but it's still in Tartarus"
pastel jolt
survival rooms
"lap running" presumably because the easiest way to handle a survival room is to just run laps around the outside edge of the room
median ridge
time to run laps for dad
heavy vapor
Mmmm
It’s also the most boring to watch, haha. I had reservations about this game from watching videos and so on
Turns out the people I watched are just happier to play in a way that makes the game look boring
atomic star
Yeah. Wonder if those could be spiced up where you get bonus loot for X mobs killed.
So incentivize slaughtering stuff instead of running around.
atomic star
What would the sword need to make it feel more in line with other weapons?
heavy vapor
I think it’s fine
turbid needle
Sword is excellent. I just love shield fighting and don't even know why
i do have to say tho, the artemis is kinda garbage
But that said, it could be my bias against gun weapons in such a game. It just doesn't gel well with my play style..... minus the artillery shot that is, i love that.
vast eagle
someone recommended me to use the shield bc i was having issues beating the beefy boys & i just want to thank them bc i was able to breeze through that boss fight
didn't even have an attack buff
rugged apex
... so, one of my god keepsakes upgraded and that refreshed the, uh, 100% boon thing? I'm not sure if this is a bug
atomic star
After getting all the skeleton keys, do you trade them in at the exchange? Or are you hoarding them for future updates
twin pasture
Haven't read back, new here, but just my general impression after ~20 runs: do the power ups ever feel strong? Do you have to be exceptionally lucky, or is the intention to be incredibly difficult? The closest comparison I can think of is Binding of Isaac - eventually you get lucky and have strong power-ups, and can really do stuff then. So far, I haven't felt that way. It gets to the point where every room is a "barely survive" and die quickly to whatever boss is next (2 Hydra deaths at the moment.) Do I need to git gud?
atomic star
In my opinion, the main problem is that the mirror helps you a little bit with survivability (extra health, dashes, more "second lives"), but offers very little in terms of damage boosts. The first upgrade really only helps with the spear, and whatever things you can do to get a backstab. The other one down the line helps if you get enough boons to combine status effects. The gold helps because shop purchases can get you other boons, extra health, etc.
Hydra to me seems like a giant DPS race, and maybe it's a bit overtuned
I kinda feel that the first mirror upgrade doesn't help the average player in terms of getting them progressed further. "Well, at least this run I picked up some darkness so my next one would be easier". I feel something like "all special damage does more" (wall slams, trap damage, backstabs, etc) might still keep the essence of what that first upgrade means; and may apply to more combat situations. Without being a straight up damage boost like boons.
twin pasture
Several of the mirror upgrades seemed absolutely laughable to me. Investing in a 1% increased chance to get "Epic" power-ups, when the "Epic" power ups I did get really didn't feel "Epic"...
atomic star
As an average player; yeah; I felt they were pretty lackluster. I kinda liked the concept of Hades in that I could get that feeling of progression by farming stuff; but still have the RNG aspect.
forest marsh
I think the Rare and Epic mirror upgrades were the old Darkness sinks before Fated Authority, they aren't really something you want to invest in heavily early on in the game
copper berry
Wightfyre is right, you basically focus on the other upgrades, and then start slowly investing in them. They do end up being pretty nice later on, but as you slowly upgrade them the difference is hard to notice.
forest marsh
You really notice it when you turn it all off, though 
copper berry
Yeah as soon as you go into heat runs, whoof. 
unkempt pagoda
y'all remember when we could get more than 3 casts with the mirror
somber epoch
oh you bet
pearl willow
fffffffffffff. lost all my DDs to a nightmarish room full of nothing but elite shield and spear exalted then nearly made it through theseus and asterius nonetheless until theseus caught me at the tail end of a wrath when i cough should still have been invuln lol
atomic star
@cloud oracle https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/525022184280948736/582054698387898368
blue11moon submitted a similar feedback
stuck whale
I miss extra dashes and casts
stuck whale
@twin pasture, are you talking about boons in general? Every boon is a huge upgrade. Maybe you haven't picked the boons that meet your playstyle or you aren't using them right. And epic boons aren't "epic" in the way you might think of the title in a loot shooter. They just have better stats than a rare or normal, and it's definitely noticeable.
I'll vouch for that Toan, considering I couldn't figure out where the boon menu was until a few days ago
Again, to Logic, maybe try dashing more? Dashing is the solution to every problem. Have you played other Supergiant games? The combat is very similar. Never hard, just takes a second to get into the rhythm.
Also realize that "epic" is still middle rarity
heavy vapor
heroic is pretty hard to get
reef topaz
I've only ever seen it show up as an exchange
atomic star
I find that i get wrecked when using the shield. Take way too much damage
Guessing because i'm playing fast and not careful
stuck whale
Are you mostly charging or mostly swinging?
atomic star
just so damn fun to smash things against a wall 100 times
heavy vapor
the shield is the one weapon where you don't have to dash
and in fact, is the only weapon I'd even consider the dash malus from Chaos boons
stuck whale
I'd definitely disagree. It's much safer to dash than rely on the charge, and it's way too easy for people to get behind you so you can't rely on the block except for witches and bosses.
heavy vapor
oh yea, to clarify, dashing's great
but shield has another option
I guess I've been watching too many videos on youtube where they just throw the shield all day
stuck whale
I basically only use shield and bow though, so maybe I view dashing differently than sword and spear players
heavy vapor
and never consider bull rush
stuck whale
Oh wow really? That's fascinating
I bull rush slam slam dodge throw, repeat repeat repeat
heavy vapor
I usually play shield or rifle
lol just got +295% darkness boon
I guess now's a good time to use Nyx's shawl?
stuck whale
Hope for an infernal trove with darkness instead of coin!
heavy vapor
ah I can't upload a snip onto here
but suffice to say, "RB to gain +407 darkness" is cool
wheat elbow
So you get 40 darkness instead of 10, which translates to 8 healing, I believe?
Shawl gives 20% of darkness as healing at first rank if memory serves
If Darkness would come in more steady over the course of a run, that shawl would be great, especially for high heated runs, but the others give you better effects that prevent you from taking damage in the first place by either making you more tanky or enemies die faster
heavy vapor
yea darkness gain is a bit patchy
I'm trying super hard to get hunting blades
I have the blade rift cast, and a blade rift upgrade
chucked on athena trinket
wheat elbow
I don't really like hunting for specific upgrades
When I do, I tend to miss out on other fun interactions
plucky oxide
Hunting blades is Ares + Artemis
I think 'hunting' for upgrades is the wrong way to look at it. Often times, the most control I have is getting to pick a portion of my boon pool for the next floor. I can't say I'm looking for a Zeus legendary every time I get a good Zeus build going, but it is a nice to have. There's a good balance between blindly picking and 'oh, well Athena can offer me a ton of good boons to accent what I currently have'
In the same sense, choosing to pick an Artemis keepsake when having a solid Ares cast build is saying 'I hope I get the two boons that greatly benefit this run, or else I'm going to be running a hybrid crit+cast build!'
heavy vapor
I've never had hunting blades
I meant artemis, lol. oops
I wanted to try it cause why not
stuck whale
Again, that line of thinking would be perfect for Olympian+Other, but I agree with Daddy (mmmm bad phrase) as the game is now
heavy vapor
LOL
eh, this run is fine anyway
I have triple special rail and a flourish from Artemis
it's fine
stuck whale
I really can't think of my runs in terms of builds for some reason. I just upgrade each of my buttons with the best thing I can get and then use each one situationally
I guess I fit my run to the boons instead of vice versa
heavy vapor
oh, I just plan for the final boss
everything else is whatever.
we did it bois. hunting blades
time to see if it's worth the hype
ooft, +3 ammo too? this artemis trinket was worth it
huh. hunting blades is the real deal.
that run gave me 1.3k darkness
plucky oxide
Ares cast is no joke. Super strong right now
heavy vapor
it was totally worth trying really hard to find the second part of it
it's not so powerful by itself because it won't stick to an enemy
but because hunting homes, it means you get like 3x damage out of it
plucky oxide
It's powerful because of its insane power against the latest boss. Hunting blades just turns it into a cakewalk ability with no downsides.
heavy vapor
well, considering how tanky theseus is, I'm ok with having an ability that negates one of his abilities
last night I had an explosive shot Coronacht and that was miserable.
I died because I couldn't do any damage to him
plucky oxide
Yup. Kiting his attacks and managing to find hits is the hardest part about him. Remove one half of that equation and you're looking at a choice win.
Which is exactly why shield is so powerful right now. It absorbs so much damage, you can have near 100% up-time on block if you're mechanically fast enough (with the right boons)
heavy vapor
he has a lot of HP plus the shield sooo...
i was mostly just disappointed
I was doing about 450-500 on a full charged perfect shot
cause both hammer upgrades
and +93% artemis boon
plucky oxide
He just turns around so dang fast. It's so frustrating.
heavy vapor
yea.
that alone makes me never want to play bow this patch
I'll just stick to Exagryph
plucky oxide
Whenever I play a build that I know delivers slow or steady damage, I tend to pocket an Ares cast, specifically just to deal with the Big Shield Boy himself. That, or try and get Last Stand on Athena in the last act once most of my boon pool has expended.
heavy vapor
well, I've noticed that who you've met previously greatly influences who you'll see later
ie if you have 2 Ares buffs, he's more likely to show up in the future
and there seems to be a small amount of partnering
it's more than just the duo boons, but includes them
so if you have a lot of dio, aphrodite shows up a little more often
which is also cool cause then you can slap on a trinket for someone who you've seen a lot of boons for in tartarus, and then have +30% rarity in asphodel and elysium
and be their champion
plucky oxide
I'm not sure I've ever witnessed any noticeable patterns, like who is predominantly paired with who, beyond rerolls on boon doors cycling between three gods at a time. I tend to rely on the guaranteed boon keepsakes to ensure which ones are a major player in my boon pool, though.
stuck whale
His immunity to bow is going to be awful once the fourth biome is out, because what if bow is great on that boss??
Yeah, I haven't noticed much pairing either. I've noticed an absence, like Artemis basically doesn't show up if you do a lot of Zeus, but that's probably just coincidence and hard to pin down
heavy vapor
they'll probs adjust it next patch. if not, we'll get creative.
stuck whale
Maybe make Power Shot pierce his shield and do half damage?
median ridge
i can get him with bow eventually just by dashing across him and repeatedly firing until eventually something hits but it has to be a really good artemis + chaos build to work and it’s still incredibly risky
atomic star
So thinking about Slay The Spire. Does anyone know how this game's "room choices" and such are done? STS had this concept of a "seed" which all RNG was based off of. Wonder if this game could be the same, where we could share a seed somehow, and all play the exact same underworld layout (rooms, mobs, choices in boons, etc)
Or if it makes sense or is a feature anyone would want
Could be fun to all race on the same underworld layout with friends
Maybe with the restriction that anything done in a "seeded" game doesn't count towards your overall progression (you can't gain keys, or ambrosia, or gift things, or darkness, or heat skulls). So you can't cheese and farm a really good map.
wheat elbow
That would be cool if peple could re-play seeds
Also, on another note
I get all the hype around Ares cast, but can we discuss how Zeus' cast is heavily underrated?
It's usually not something I conciously look out for, but whenever I get it, I am having a gold experience
atomic star
Is it? I thought everyone thought it was amazing
I thought Ares cast was bad because it "undid" the "do more damage to enemies with your cast stuck in them"
wheat elbow
That's the only reason I personally dislike
it
Also one of the reasons why I am not so fond of hunting for the hunting blades synergy.
Ares and Artemis boons don't seem to mix all that well together imo, so trying to get something amazing while jeopardizing everything else is not something I enjoy all that deeply
Got another full clear in, I will upload the video shortly.
atomic star
This hydra battle is absolute madness
atomic star
I'm pretty sure that the only reason the game says: "Play with a controller is recojmmended" is because as an alternate investment strategy, SGG invested in controller companies after you break yours A) mashing keys B) throwing it and breaking it out of frustration.
heavy vapor
if you get blade cast early, I think it's worth going for athena
otherwise don't bother
also, if you have a god's trinket already equipped, you can't refresh the "next boon" part of it post-boss fight
pastel jolt
i saw someone earlier mention they thought dying to the hydra twice without killing it was too much
it took me over ten attempts to do it the first time
meg took even more than that because i wasn’t very good at the game
i don’t get why people say the hydra is overtuned, if it was any easier than it currently is it’d be an absolute cake walk
heavy vapor
it's really really easy atm...
atomic star
Maybe because you're good at games, and we all aren't the best?
pastel jolt
no, i still lose more runs than i win
heavy vapor
I will tentatively put it out there that I don't enjoy fighting the hydra
because you feel gated by the impervious bits
it breaks the flow of the game that's been set up to that point, in my mind anyway
I'm well aware this is just personal conjecture
pastel jolt
i find the hydra more nteresting to fight than the furies because it’s split into phases
heavy vapor
mmm
I guess I prefer it when it's a back and forth
of being offensive and defensive
and so I vastly prefer furies and O&S
wheat elbow
@heavy vapor Impervious Enemies are always terrible to deal with
pastel jolt
are you ever going to stop calling them ornstein and smough or is that just gonna be a thing from now on
wheat elbow
I remember one run that I lost, Meg would always getr randomly impervious whenever I'd use Poseidons Wrath
heavy vapor
never C:
pastel jolt
they’re not even that similar beyond “two bosses at once”
heavy vapor
the fight is incredibly similar
pastel jolt
call me when theseus absorbs asterius for a power up
heavy vapor
I was expecting that to happen, tbh
a la, they have Wrath effect
it's a classic combo
the pointman and the support
it's been used in many many places, but I like all sorts of souls games so that's what I'll call it
I have another name for them, but might not be PG13
pastel jolt
cloud oracle
Thanks @atomic star! I did a few searches before posting, but didn't come up with that one. If I have something else, I'll try a few more keyword combinations. 😃
I second the "hold to open" feature and actually think that'd be better than a straight up disable.
robust garden
ok
nesxt run
im trying to get the artemis ares boon
on bow
does anyone know how duo boons icons look like?
lost rose
if you mean the door icons, they look the same
if you mean the actual boon icon in the select menu, it's this
robust garden
yeah i meant the door icons
lost rose
door icons are the same; you won't know if you'll get a duo boon until you actually accept a boon from a god
lost rose
it makes a blade rift cast seek enemies
robust garden
that's not bad
heavy vapor
faster, increases duration (i think?) and homes
robust garden
are all the combinations on the wiki?
heavy vapor
they are
hot fiber
does anyone else think that poseidons boons are kinda bad
heavy vapor
they're really good with coronacht and exagryph
robust garden
what's rupture
hot fiber
ussually you cc an enemy with you basic attack or if you have a sick debuff that also slows enemies you basically conter rupture
when an enemy moves he takes damage
robust garden
ah
frank dew
its alright if you have a strong knockback on the attack
but it does suffer abit on the melee side cause you obviously cant follow up quite as well
hot fiber
whats the use of a knockback if you can just kill enemies with the other gods boons
heavy vapor
higher heat
hot fiber
only use i found for poseidon is the heal and money his rare boon gives
heavy vapor
either more enemies, or more HP
frank dew
poseidons attack have one of the highest modifers
frank dew
so his attacks acctually do more dmg than other boons except athena
hot fiber
really now
frank dew
yes
frank dew
and with the addition of the boon that gives explosions when you know stuff into walls it can lead to quite high attack dmg
hot fiber
makes sanse since there boons arent that damage orianted
pastel jolt
i kinda wish athena’s damage was lower because as it is she’s kind of the no-brainer choice
pastel jolt
highest damage % boost and deflect? why take anything else?
robust garden
what are your most used gods?
heavy vapor
a lot of evaluation changes with higher heat
pastel jolt
yeah, i like artemis boons
heavy vapor
artemis competes with athena on higher heat cause either more HP or more enemies, and you want to keep things clear
then again, deflect on a rapid fire weapon works alright too for that
pastel jolt
i just wish she wouldn’t offer cast boons when i’m trying to push towards her higher-tier stuf ._.
heavy vapor
not much damage though
frank dew
i think the crit mechanic might be abit unbalanced simply cause it effects the dmg of other boons in a way that others doesnt
robust garden
same @pastel jolt
pastel jolt
hey artemis can i have hide breaker?
how about quick reload, exit wounds, and pressure points?
artemis why
hot fiber
what is heat?
robust garden
have you beat hydra?
frank dew
its basically a challange mode thing
heavy vapor
exit wounds and quick reload should be merged, I think? maybe.
robust garden
^
hot fiber
yes and i only know there skulls use for making game harder
heavy vapor
skulls = heat
robust garden
yeah that's heat
heavy vapor
game's very different at like, 25, or 50 heat
depends what you pick, of course.
if you don't have much darkness, you might as well get the darkness limiter haha
heavy vapor
neither, because you can't use it against TnA
robust garden
tna?
lost rose
perfect shot
robust garden
i got artmeis keepsake too
heavy vapor
I would go explosive cause 300% > 200% but you need a plan for the end game
unfortunately.
lost rose
perfect shot lets you pile up more benefits imo
heavy vapor
you mean stacking with another hammer?
lost rose
explosive has better raw damage but perfect shot has better synergy
another hammer, and boons
heavy vapor
neat
I've been playing a lot of Exagryph so that one is super useless lately haha
i guess if you find the heavy slug upgrade
robust garden
damn did they buff hydra or did i just get lucky all those times i beat it
heavy vapor
i think they nerfed.. it? idk
wheat elbow
I don't really like Hunter Dash all that much
I only would like to see it with Shield + Better Shield Dash attack
pastel jolt
hunter dash + bow = 
hard holly
Its insane on bow and decent on shield
heavy vapor
currently trying out Zeus + Poseidon duo
hard holly
Oh and its great with uh
Heavy Slug
On Rail
And the doublehit upgrade on sword
Really spear is the only weapon its awful on
heavy vapor
whoever said poseidon boons are weak has never played exagryph with poseidon flourish
literally knock things off screen
wheat elbow
Spear in my book feels pretty awful in general
If I were to rate the weapons, it would be
Shield >= Rail > Sword > Bow > Spear
hard holly
Spear is just reliant on specific hammer upgrades
And you have to go for basically regular hits or spin now
polar plank
i was about to say, the only time I struggle with the spear is against theseus and the minotaur
hard holly
Bow and Shield are probably the 2 most safe/versatile weapons
Sword can be busted but can also fall flat, Rail is pretty reliant on upgrades as well
heavy vapor
there's a million good rail upgrades though
you just have to find a hammer
+6 and fire faster, single shot, triple flourish
it's unlikely you don't get one of thos
wheat elbow
I mean, to a degree, every weapon is reliant on upgrades
I also had runs that ended up making weapons not matter because casts and dashes ended up being the deciding factor from start to finish, which is always a gold experience.
Rail to me is a very safe weapon because no matter what Items you get and take, you can make great use out of it
There are only a handful of boons that I'd consider to be bad on the rail
wheat elbow
Don't think any of the weapons has hurt my hands so far
hard holly
True, but the triple special alone is a little weak
The other 2 are great tho
The other 2 are great tho
pearl willow
I play all KBM - though I think there's a possibility Hades is might be the game to break my mouse as it works it harder than ever before lol - and there are times when I think clicks aren't being registered. Could just be user error.
hard holly
On the other hand, Shield is good even with no upgrades and has like 4 good ones I think
heavy vapor
Triple special is great. You get three times the damage output.
hard holly
On the other hand, Shield is good even with no upgrades and has like 4 good ones I think
heavy vapor
Triple special is great. You get three times the damage output.
hard holly
On the other hand, Shield is good even with no upgrades and has like 4 good ones I think
heavy vapor
Cause otherwise you’d be cool down gated
hard holly
While Bow has 6 good upgrades and only like 3 that arent
wheat elbow
@heavy vapor See, I would do that, but
Why do that on the spear, when the rail exists?
hard holly
True, but its hard to reliably hit all 3 specials if used in quick succession
And its not exactly 3 times the damage output
Plus that damage output doesnt scale perfectly into lategame
And its not exactly 3 times the damage output
heavy vapor
Is it? I’m not having any trouble even vs 20% movespeed boosted Asterius
It’s close enough to 3x.
It’s close enough to 3x.
hard holly
Note, Im on Gamepad rather than mouse + keyboard
heavy vapor
Same
hard holly
That might be why
hard holly
Actually, bow might only have 5 good upgrades
I dont know about explosive shot, never took it
heavy vapor
Explosive is good until the beef brothers
hard holly
4 for me because I really dont like rapid shot
wheat elbow
Bow not enabling you to shoot without charging is what puts the weapon off for me.
Bow feels super punishing in everything you do
You either have to lose out time and mobility to shoot
You feel like you lose out damage and range by not shooting far
hard holly
Well Rapid Shot solves that for you
wheat elbow
You can use your special from a big distance for no damage
hard holly
Personally I like bow because its really safe and does absurd amounts of damage
wheat elbow
Or you can maybe shotgun from a super risky position while being unmobile
hard holly
And its fun
wheat elbow
That's my problem with it
Unless certain boons are involved
I just don't see these "absurd amounts of damage"
Like, one time, I had a good run because I went fairly deep into Zeus boons + his special
hard holly
I mean the base perfect shot is 40 damage
wheat elbow
Which basically allowed for huge clearing with special from a safe distance, but
hard holly
Combine that with just Hunter Dash and you get 80 damage every half second
wheat elbow
I could have gotten the exact same thing with other weapons in better and safer
vale sphinx
If you dash directly behind someone’s back and zeus special on bow you basically delete them from existence
wheat elbow
Yes, but you also lose out the damage other dashes would deal on their own
hard holly
True, but their damage is honestly just not as good in case of bow
Slap on a crit upgrade on the basic attack
hard holly
Slap on a crit upgrade on the basic attack
wheat elbow
So that would be 30 damage
hard holly
And you can easily crit upwards of 1k
hard holly
Its 30 without any potential future upgrades
Which youll pretty reliably get
While also not having to be close
wheat elbow
That would still leave you at dealing 40 base damage with a shot you need to charge
when you could also charge your spear for 50 to 100
your shield for....I actually forgot to check how much Bull Rush deals
hard holly
Difference is you have to charge spear for I think over a full second
wheat elbow
isn't it 35 to 40?
hard holly
While bow charges for less than half a second
wheat elbow
First stage spear charge is rather fast
second one takes a while, I agree to that
Still nice to get spear fully charged as you are waiting for respawns
wheat elbow
The spear also allows you to hit groupls easier
Meh. I wouldn't agree to that
Bow feels slow to me, but I am not up for a numbers game regarding that.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you are wrong and if you get good bow runs, all power to you
hard holly
Have you tried charging right after dashing?
wheat elbow
I just don't see it. In my book, almost everything the bow can do, other weapons do better and/or more interestingly
hard holly
It charges a lot faster
wheat elbow
I have
But then you also have to take in the time you spend dashing into account.
If you want to use the Bow from a safe distance, which is what you should if you are attacking, yyou should not need to dash
dashing for a at that time small damage increase would be impractical
And of course, we base all this on the assumption that every shot you make will be a powershot
Which certainly isn't true for me.
pastel jolt
the timing's easy once you're used to it
hard holly
Yup
pearl willow
get your rhythm going and pretty much everything is dash powershot repeat
hard holly
Bow is I guess just a matter of personal preference, but I love it
pastel jolt
twin shot bow is still my favourite
hard holly
3>2
wheat elbow
Triple shot has a huge spread though
wheat elbow
More spread damage, and only, if your targets alignb
atomic star
Looks like the idea of a seed got brought up back in Feb
How does skipping a hammer work? When are you offered it again?
pearl willow
i prefer twin. triple is generally just better AoE for me as anything that i would want to triple backstab is generally dangerous enough that i also don't want to be that close to it.
manic ermine
If I skip it in tartarus I usually see another in asphodel.
pearl willow
there's no set in stone offering for it but you do bypass it you should certainly be able to find another in time.
pastel jolt
you can actually be offered two hammers in elysium if you skipped them in the earlier areas
hard holly
Huh
atomic star
I kinda feel that you should start off with a base wrath, that all it does is make you impervious for a few seconds
and then the boons upgrade it by adding their special ability
tidal stirrup
oh yeah, fourth clear! and first one that didn't abuse an overpowered Cast combo.
I think I actually really like the rail now.
atomic star
Made it past hydra with no weapon upgrades; with the rail. This run could have been the one if I didn't skip the chaos in the opening room; and didn't waste a boon by overwriting it
atomic star
Who do you kill first? the minotaur or theseus.. and when the hell does the chariot happen?
I got surprised by it
tidal stirrup
Chariot happens when one of them dies
and usually, I try to go for Theseus first since he summons constant AoE when below half health, but woth how much the minotaur charges, he ends up dying first
atomic star
what keepsake do you typically take?
tidal stirrup
normally I start with the coin purse
then in the second area, if I need a particular boon, I take the keepsake of that god
the speartip is generally really nice, Chaos' egg is also nice if you want to spend money to get guaranteed chaos rifts
atomic star
Yeah, just switched to that; i was considering starting off with egg or coin purse; then switching to speartip
I sorta feel like sick stacks should be applied based on weapon speed. Feels bad to have dio's attack; but the slug
Piercing or explosive fire with the slug?
wheat elbow
@hard holly I just played a game of Hades
I made a habit out of always picking the weapon that gives me 10% more darkness
make a wild guess what weapon that ended up being
tidal stirrup
@atomic star I went for Piercing, Explosive doesn't increase the rail's damage like it does for the spear or bow
try to get the Artemis attack boon or Athena attack boon, both are amazing for the slug
wheat elbow
I tried to adapt what you were teaching me, spamming dash and attacks, getting a bit of a better feel for it
Not really enjoying it and probably not doing so well with it, but I managed
Meg was as close as it got to ending me
The run took plenty of interesting turns to carry me into victory
I will upload that game for sure
hard holly
Well, it is a different paradigm
autumn tapir
plucky oxide
Dash, perfect shot, dash, perfect shot, dash, perfect shot. It's got a good rhythm to it, and keeps you kiting and moving. The buffs to shield and sword's animations over the past few updates have changed how I see kiting, though.
rough panther
I think the most fun are the Sword andthe Gun.
atomic star
gun is my favorite and only weapon i've gotten to elysium with
maybe i just suck at melee.
woven magnet
Got my first win with a shield the other day. Sick is so powerful
stuck whale
DeGrand, I say this every time I come in this Discord at all, but if you aren't dashing a TON, you aren't playing Hades right, or any Supergiant game
Not nonstop obviously, but any time you're not attacking, you gotta mash that dodge. Helps with bullet hell and repositioning, and gives you a second to breathe
Do you like the shield at all? Bow is the same concept but with a power shot, no block, and more dashing
On the other hand, I'm on my 50th run and I haven't gotten a clear yet, so what do I know
wheat elbow
@stuck whale Well the jokes on you!
I fought Alecto while I had a chaos curse active that would damage me everytime I dash
Fun fact:
Chaos curse can't kill you.
Funier fact: Chaos Curse attempting to damage you still charges up your wrath gauge
So I was busy just dodging everything for that fight while sitting at 1 HP while I was waiting for Dyonysus Wrath to come back up.
karmic gyro
Just had a run with the Bow that almost got me victory. Double Shot + Explosive Arrow were the weapon upgrades, and the perks were mainly Poseidon and Zeus, their duo boon combined with the Poseidon wall-slam mechanic made Elysium piss easy for once. Almost got Theseus and the Minotaur too, but right at the end of the fight I lost track of the projectiles the Minotaur's axe fires and got killed by a stray shot. Sad
wheat elbow
Poseidon/Zeus is such a strong combo
karmic gyro
Bow did a ton of damage because of that and the shattered butterfly
wheat elbow
Most cases, I get the Myrmidon Bracer for the last part of the game.
40% less damage taken usually helps me get through there
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/583797519964962817/unknown.png
Got my first sub-30 in Elysium!
hard holly
True to your name eh