sea god's rage is real good
#h1-builds-and-combat
lost rose
unkempt pagoda
your family except for your father
heavy bone
I beat Thesus with Poseidons wrath while he used Zeus's boon on me. you can make lore out of that somehow
lost rose
gkdfjgfd "i'd like to thank literally everyone except hades"
heavy bone
pretty much ^
pastel jolt
@floral creek - re: "reduce their raw hitpoints", greatshields have the same amount of hp as the longspear, actually
floral creek
Yes! But their blocking makes them feel considerably tankier. Granted, reducing their hitpoints doesn't make much sense given the enemy's design, but it's a simpler fix than making their blocking active altogether, though that might be a better solution.
clever shuttle
guys i just noticed the "Playing with a controller recommended"
Ive been playing with key bored this whole time
lost rose
MKB is equally viable - everyone has their preference and there are pros and cons to both
clever shuttle
ahhhh ok
urban trellis
What do you guys think the best weapon is
clever shuttle
shield
rugged apex
shield or bow
urban trellis
Are you guys serious?
rugged apex
yes
clever shuttle
and rail gun if u get the right upgrades to make it OP
rugged apex
but also it doesn't matter because the weapons aren't that far apart in strength except maybe spear
forest marsh
It depends on your playstyle, really
rugged apex
I think shield is like, strictly the strongest - blocking attacks is a lot of value
but the bow is good because it's ranged and accurate and that's sort of the same thing as blocking, if you can dodge
clever shuttle
and with the hammer up grade so u can attack while the shield is being thrown
constant damage
thats y i like playing pack of punishment with only one options beacuse i always go for the same upgrades
pastel jolt
i'm completely inept at using the shield
i take more damage in a run with the shield than with any other weapon
rugged apex
the shield is just a bow that moves you around
never actually get in melee just bash/block from range
plush blaze
Bow is higher risk higher reward
rugged apex
...that said it's actually pretty good melee because it can wallslam on every hit
plush blaze
Shield is probably the safest out of any of the weapons
plucky oxide
Welp. Can confirm that hunting blades is now the strongest duo boon in the game. I've never chewed through Elysium so fast, and with so little threat to my personal safety.
clever shuttle
But since they added the know power in the mirror I'm just getting sick weak and doom
quasi moat
bow is bae
clever shuttle
I absolutely Shredded Elysium with 22.5 (Or something like that) with thanatos Trinkett
Rien gun + no reload + faster and more accurate
With doom attack + doom stacking
Sick dogging
Weak special + more damage on week foes
That's what i can remeber I had more things for damage but I don't recall what they where
pearl willow
bleh, had a decent twinshot bow run until i got my second hammer and had to choose between rapid shot or explosive shot, both actively making my build worse lol
clever shuttle
Oof
Guys I thought the skulls where annoying on normal
But with 50% morning enemies + 2 death defiance
quasi moat
damage up so high that a single hit from hydra pops my death defys -w-
heavy bone
I didn't realize you could hold down the rail
I thought you had to click for every shot
š¤¦
pearl willow
if i hadn't lost all my death defiances to trying to kill exalted souls with heavy slug i think id have won that run ><
plush pond
what are peoples thoughts on spiked collar as a trinket? I feel like its pretty good but I wonder if its a bit of a noob trap
median ridge
it's good
lost rose
it's really helpful for new folks, i think, and even some more experienced folks were running it in elysium just because the enemies there are so tanky
not all the trinkets are gonna be good for any one person's play style, or for the entirety of the game, i think
it has its place for sure
median ridge
i think the only trinket i've never found use for is the shackle
lost rose
Shackle's pretty good with the regenerating pillars in elysium
crystal wing
So as a new player I have a question what do the different room times do
I know the sack of money is the shop
But is there a difference between other ones
forest marsh
I'm not sure what you mean by room times. Do you mean types?
crystal wing
Yeah. Like how at the end of a stage you can pick between two patches by pressing e or rb on controller and they each have the sphere with something in it
Paths *
I would wiki but I don't want spoilers
forest marsh
The room previews just show you what your reward will be in the next room. As you say, the sack with the skull is Charon's shop. The key is a Skeleton Key, the purple crystal is Darkness, and the various coloured icons represent gods that will offer you a boon
A room with a small white skull on it in addition to the normal icon will be more challenging than a regular room
forest marsh
Happy to help. Good luck!
crystal wing
TY
which rooms
should one typically go for, for good boons? in my experience Zeus and Aphrodite have the best ones?
forest marsh
It really depends on your playstyle and your weapon
lost rose
It depends on your--yeah
Artemis is all around pretty good
Crit chance is always nice
forest marsh
Honestly, if you're just learning the game, give them all a try
lost rose
Athena is solid
crystal wing
I only have the sword and bow unlocked so far
not a huge fan of the sword but I'm loving the bow
forest marsh
It's not going to hurt you to have some odd-ball runs while you test out what works for you with each weapon
crystal wing
alright, thanks for the tips
forest marsh
If you're running bow, I like a combination of Artemis, Athena, and Poseidon
crystal wing
thank you
trim ingot
spiked collar is my noob crutch at least until i get thick skin upgraded
soft ermine
I've won a few runs and im trying to start using heat...but even with 15 I'm having issues, what do you guys think is the easiest "penalty" to start with?
forest marsh
Easiest is probably either more enemies or more enemy health
icy edge
Death insurance is an easy one to deal with on some weapons or boons (dio, ares, gun or shield)
forest marsh
Big emphasis on some weapons
robust garden
I feel like its the easiedt to deal with with gun
forest marsh
Shield and sword do well against death insurance too, in that order
hard holly
Easiest would be more health, but it translates poorly to higher heat
Id start with more damage, because dodging all enemy attacks if the first step towards being able to run high heat setups
obtuse tapir
Actually for low heat I'd go for stifling darkness
the most critical ones don't consume so much darkness
dash, backstab, bloodstone damage, death defiance, some heal maybe?
~1000 should be enough for most of the vital mirror upgrades
icy edge
dunno man, it hurts me to have to pick common boons
Olympian favor and gods pride are too good
lone zephyr
Hey guys is there no way to zoom out? Enemies seem to get me often from outside my vision range. The camera is zoomed out in some rooms, like in Erebus and it feels much better
somber epoch
I don't think so, Gargg
somber epoch
I've never run into camera issues, though. What resolution is the game at?
lone zephyr
1080 full screen
i sometimes dash into already charging from offscreen skull or into a witches orb fired from offsceen
pearl willow
it kind of comes with the territory of an isometric camera, though i wouldnt mind greater zoom for some rooms/enemy types
quasi moat
Someone posted in feedback about having the main Hydra submerge during the other phases
That's interesting, but I feel like it would make things really REALLY easy because like
The threat in Hydra is how cramped everything suddenly becomes at phases 2 and 3
somber epoch
i think it would be overkill, personally
hydra has already been toned down a very large amount since launch
quasi moat
Having an open area to dodge in without having to take down a head makes it so that you are completely safe
Particularly if you're using a ranged weapon
turbid needle
hmmm... just for the fun, I gone with new save... and on first run I'm already in Elysium lol
somber epoch
do you think you'll go all the way?
i love theorizing about how a fresh save can "beat the game"
somber epoch
is that skull earring?
turbid needle
bone hourglass
somber epoch
ah i see
turbid needle
stronger item for Elysium lol
rocky goblet
Hi, i think it would be a good idea change a bit the "level up", where can i send the idea? Here?
rocky goblet
He would not let me, thanks haha
turbid needle
well I guess you need to read some pinned messages to be able to write in #hades-feedback
yup, I'm dead
not enough damage to kill them
rocky goblet
I can't send message in #hades-feedback
rocky goblet
thanks
median ridge
iām really curious what you mean by ālevel upā
pearl willow
Poms
I think he's suggesting that Poms have a chance to raise rarity level in addition to the +1 level.
dense crag
can't post in feedback so I'm saying it here but the bottom of levels needs some transparence or something because you sometimes cannot know at all that there's an enemy behind a pillar or even walls for tiny enemies unless you damage them. Half my deaths are to this game design flaw.
median ridge
if you scroll up by like five messages you will see instructions on how to post in feedback
rocky goblet
I say that the lvl up is better, it improves the ability. example: Zeus's rationale with the attack now explodes on impact in addition to giving more stars, but this improvement is rare to see
quasi moat
pinned messages in feedback also tells you how
lone zephyr
I wasn't prepared for 3rd floor boss having so much HP
It's so long
Need some good synergies for it
errant narwhal
athena and artemis on bow 
rugged apex
aaaaa I just want to buy room decor please spawn the items
aphrodite wall scroll: get
rocky goblet
Help, how i can win Hydra's? The pistol or sword?
Only i can win thw Fury's, but i finish with low health
median spire
Dash like mad
Deflect helps a lot with every boss especially dash deflect and sword special deflect
If you dash deflect all the time your nearly invincible
you're*
rocky goblet
I'm so bad with the dash
median spire
Git gud š
atomic panther
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/473685187780411405/580098434057371726/unknown.png?width=887&height=499
+37.5% damage from Pierced Butterfly, feeling good about this run. But, even though I've picked 4 Ares boons, I haven't found a single cast buff from him. Let me get your blender, Ares!
turbid needle
I feel like the only person who thinks the butterfly is bad
It does marginally more than the Skull Earing by Elysium, but you have to not get the benefit of god keepsakes, the coinpurse, or the doggy collar.
I think the butterfly needs a significant buff
Because like the damage difference between Skull Earing and Pierced Butterfly isn't even equivalent to the benefit of a Rare or Epic Athena/Artemis/Aphrodite/Poseidon/Chaos damage boon, which you have a high likelihood of acquiring with their keepsake.
rocky goblet
Which is the best benefit?
turbid needle
I think it depends on which phase of the attempt you're at. I like to start off with a strong core boon, so I grab a god keepsake (usually Athena or Artemis, but that's just me). Then I switch into the Cthonic Coinpurse before Asphodel to get some more money, unless Chaos or Poseidon made me rich, or I've maxed out the Convenience Fee. If I forego the coinpurse for any of those reasons, I like to grab the egg or some other god boon conducive with my core build who hasn't shown up yet.
Before Elysium, I always grab either the earring or the doggy collar. I don't like Charon's keepsake very much, because it doesn't boost Patroclus' items, but that's just me.
I've tried to use the Myrmidon Brace, but I don't think its defense increase is substantial on attempts with +200% Vicious Torment or more.
mint leaf
The butterfly is one of several keepsakes I never use.
I just don't feel like it's useful to me at all.
atomic panther
I've only dipped below 40% health once. The earring would be doing nothing for me, whereas the Butterfly has been giving a noticeable benefit since the fourth room.
spice turret
The thing about me and the butterfly is that I like to use it specifically in runs to crank up the damage as high as I can.
atomic panther
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/473685187780411405/580105812282966037/unknown.png?width=887&height=499
Only got one more room from Elysium, but triple bomb got me there!
solid loom
Guys I think that switching to a God keepsake when changing acts doesn't work correctly, as the next boon I found wasn't from the keepsake I chose (and no there weren't many options). Has anyone else found this (bug?)
I dont think this is intended, as chosing a god keepsake already feels inferior to many other ones, but if you chose to, for example, stick with ared keepsake for the whole run, it should at least guarantee 3 boons from him, one at the begining of each act. Am I right?
rugged apex
No.
God boons only give a reward once per run - which should probably be clarified, like the coinpurse.
(swapping from a god boon to another god boon should, however, ensure that the next boon is from that god)
solid loom
Okay, then yeah, I disagree with their decision, but in any case it should not say in the description that the next boon you find will be from (wahtever god) cause it's not true mid game
rugged apex
(if it doesn't that's definitely a bug you should F10 report)
solid loom
oh cool, I didn't think to do this when it happened, and I think it's that case (I changed from one god boon to another and the next boon didnt match). I'll test this again and report if it happens, ty!
somber epoch
foxy, i think what happened is that the keepsake descriptions just haven't kept up
they were likely written before you could switch keepsakes mid run
pastel jolt
i've definitely switched and had them work mid-run
solid loom
oh, I didnt know that, just started playing a week ago (love the game btw), but that makes sense
pastel jolt
the only time it hasn't worked was in a trial of the gods, and the god i picked was neither of the ones in the trial
atomic panther
You've been able to switch keepsakes mid run since at least the Chaos update, and it's worked properly since then, too. This is a bug, and should be treated as such
solid loom
okay, i'll test it more and report if it happens
pastel jolt
@somber epoch you've.... always been able to change keepsakes mid-run though? š¤
the chaos update change was that you could only change once, pre-chaos you could switch as much as you liked in that room and you could heal back up to full jsut by switching to/from the collar a lot
somber epoch
yeah im aware of that
i was thinking more of earlier in dev time before a public build got launched
but it being a bug makes a lot more sense
solid loom
in any case, don't you think there's very little incentive to stay with the same god-keepsake the whole run if it does only work once?
somber epoch
oh i mean specifically the bit about "the next boon you find"
solid loom
but you are right, coin purse is the same, there's no point keeping it after act 1
pastel jolt
that's why you can switch!
somber epoch
you keep coin purse if you wanna flex on the underworld
but man yeah coin purse is kinda useless
solid loom
haha tbh when I started playing I found it awesome in my first few runs
somber epoch
it used to be absolute garbage
you had to carry it in your previous run and it would save a certain amount of the money you had when you died
solid loom
now that I'm starting to play with those skulls for increased challenge... yeah I feel it's pretty weak
somber epoch
instead of just giving you money at the start of the run
solid loom
oh, that reminds me of rogue legacy
pastel jolt
it was removed in patch 6, that's..... that's a long time ago 
rugged apex
watching athena's cast whirr off into the far, lava-filled reaches of asphodel... dismaying.
plucky oxide
Coin purse is super high value, but only when you're short on cash. It provides a free mid-value shop. Is food and a free boon better? There are definitely times when I think it's worth it. It's also super nice if you have a good selection in the well in the area you can choose keepsakes.
native ether
I feel like the only person who thinks the butterfly is bad
I have mix feelings on the butterfly
on one hand it can be absurdly powerful
but I dont find it works well for my desired playthrough
because I lose the buff if I swap off of it or dont take it in the first area
I don't really have an incentive to run it unless I'm doing the whole run with it
And... I don't like that... Because I'm someone who likes to swap onto the various god keepsakes in Tartarus and Asphodel, and swap to something defensive/beneficial in Elysium
Butterfly isnt bad I don't think but it requires a very "committed" style of gameplay that doesn't appeal to me. It feels like it clashes with the ability to swap keepsakes in general, and thus I don't tend to use it unless my strategy doesn't rely on swapping my keepsakes
If I was going to suggest any changes, I'd just make it so you don't lose (or fully lose) the benefit you get from running the butterfly (so say if you dropped it behind you'd get to keep half the bonus damage)
because its a keepsake you have to invest in continually during the run, and thus it feels like a waste if you have to swap off of it, unlike something like the collar, where its a passive benefit
trim ingot
or have it count up even if you don't equip it?
native ether
that would be pretty neat too, cause the same type of gameplay is rewarded later down the line if you so choose
trim ingot
like you can just equip it in asphodel with +50% ready to go (depending on how many times you didn't get hit before)
yeah that
native ether
even though atm I don't see much of a reason not to swap to dog collar or the spear point for Elysium cause omg theres so much damage
manic ermine
Butterfly works best with zeus/ares/dio because it double dips
median ridge
maybe if it had a slightly weaker effect but it wasnāt a keepsake that had to be equipped. you could just have that slight passive benefit every run
trim ingot
sounds like a mirror upgrade then
native ether
right now it feels like if you're not running a defensive keepsake into Elysium you either need to have something like a 40% butterfly, or you're just a bit crazy :p
especially with patroclus being in Elysium offering a 40% damage bonus on your primary attack
trim ingot
no-hit speedrunners be like
native ether
it feels like there's plenty of opportunity to stack/increase my damage in Elysium
but very little opportunity to do so with my defense
besides something like a keepsake
maybe its just me, idk
trim ingot
pat also offers a death defy
native ether
I can actually also see running Athena's keepsake for defense.
If you get one of the death defiance boons
(esp the health one)
pat offers a death defy but so shops in rooms
he does offer that sweet heal which if you get a couple lucky chambers is a free full heal tbf
or at least a life buffer against elysium enemies if you get unlucky
i wonder if what im saying is more that there feels like less defensive bonuses in general (or at least less "meaningful" feeling ones in general) in Hades
because now that I think about it, its not specifically Elysium that offers anything less (honestly it offers more with Patroclus) its just it never felt like something to think about before Elysium
trim ingot
the best defense is a good offense?
native ether
fair i guess. Can't die if everything in front of you is ded
manic ermine
Achilles keepsake +aphro gives you 90% reduction
native ether
from the front and from melee at least
not that im really suggesting any changes or even trying to say something about the game in a grand scheme. I'm just a rambling player trying to form coherent thoughts out of experience.
atomic panther
Achilles Keepsake is 40% damage reduction, weak is 50%, but because they apply to different objects (incoming vs outgoing damage) I think they stack differently
trim ingot
there's kind of an interplay between attacking and dodging
native ether
yeah, im not sure if what im saying falls in line with "this is an issue that needs to be fixed" its more "this is just an observation after playing a lot of runs"
and its not like the gameplay is bad or anything, if it was something I felt needed core changes or fixes id toss it in #hades-feedback
it might be interesting to see more defensive options (really like the death defy athena boons for example) in the future
trim ingot
aphrodite is a genuinely good defense boon for no-heat runs
native ether
oh yeah definitely
though when I see an aphro boon ngl my first though is "melee cast gimme"
cause rail addict here
trim ingot
hhh i hate aphro cast i didn't know people liked it
wet creek
Its bc it hits a lot of enemies and stuns them
trim ingot
i'm a habitual button masher though anything that requires hold and release doesn't fit my style
native ether
it basically turns your cast into a one shot melee/armor breaker up thru Asphodel and even in Elysium
and it applies a long lasting debuff
trim ingot
i guess it would compliment a ranged weapon yeah
native ether
If you run anything off Privileged Status its very good
wet creek
And when ur in a room full of those mage boys it keeps me from playing myself
native ether
cause Weak is one of the longest lasting effects in the game
its easy to apply and then apply a second debuff for that bonus 50% dmg
trim ingot
oh true
plucky oxide
^
novel magnet
Is it me or the "Pacts of Punishment" are just not rewarding at all? the increase to Darkness you get is very minimal
plucky oxide
Play what you like Scythius
trim ingot
it's more supposed to be a challenge option
native ether
The Pact of Punishment is definitely meant more as a way to challenge experienced players rather than be a way to grind out darkness
wet creek
^^
native ether
the extra reward is there just so it feels like your failures arent entirely for nothing imo
novel magnet
Yeah, too bad I was foolish enough to spend 12 keys on them
trim ingot
rip
wet creek
Ooof
native ether
though it is very easy to grind out some high darkness with specific modifiers if you get good at them
and yeah i do wish the pact key costs were lower
wet creek
Im not gonna spend any keys until ive memorised all the enemy attacks in Elysium
native ether
that would make them feel less like upgrades you feel invested in using immediately and more like extra side content
wet creek
I just got the game working like 3 days ago too so I succ major ass
plucky oxide
I personally don't like a lot of heat! Specifically, whipped frenzy. It's an awful experience, in my opinion. But I understand that somewhere out there might enjoy it. Just like people really dislike more mobs, but I constantly max that effect out.
native ether
in general I do wish the pact was locked until beating a run regardless
instead of being unlocked after hydra
native ether
because players see this brand new thing and dump heat into it not really realizing its meant for players who are much more experienced
plucky oxide
I think they're still trying to figure out where heat belongs, in terms of progression
native ether
i suppose its there so players who are really bad at elysium can darkness farm their way into roflstomping the game
so there's that
but /shrug
trim ingot
in other sgg games you unlock the difficulty modifiers in the first playthrough though
it's never been a ng+ thing
native ether
^ thinking definitely of Transistor
trim ingot
though they've never required a cost to unlock...
plucky oxide
Whose to say that reaching the top is the end of the game?
wet creek
I think Bastion let you get difficulty modifiers in the middle of the first playthrough as well
native ether
Considering my brother finally beat his first run 2 days ago, and had yet to meet Thanatos before last night, definitely not the end of the game :p
trim ingot
you just kinda get them
native ether
I like where the pact is positioned, I think it should just be made clearer that "this is an end game option and if you havent beat the game at least once yet you probably shouldnt be messing with it"
which tbf that's already imo apparent
trim ingot
narratively that's very clear
native ether
dont know how to make it more apparent, its already got a super edgy name and gui
:kappa:
median ridge
zag: āi can make my life even harder with thisā
wet creek
Hades literally tells you he puts it there to give you a harder time hsjsjaj
native ether
besides putting a giant ugly warning on it that says "DANGER, GIT GUD FIRST" :kappa:
trim ingot
everyone @ zag: why are you making things harder for yourself for no reason
zag: ......statues?
plucky oxide
I like that heat can be allowed earlier. When I start new saves, my first priority is always acquiring as much darkness as I can. The more darkness I have, the more secure future runs can be.
median ridge
yeah i donāt know how it could be even more obvious that this is a difficulty increaser
native ether
its made fairly clear narratively but it seems people keep investing into it immediately
which seems counter intuitive
but /shrug idk
median ridge
eh, their business how they want to play
native ether
fair enough i suppose
wet creek
Bdanns I saw how little darkness it gave me and turned it off immediately
rugged apex
things sure are.... heating up around here
native ether
i cant tell if them investing into it immediately is a "oh its a new thing to plug numbers into" kinda deal or people actually wanting to use it because they think the game could be more challenging
rugged apex
anyway if you don't immediately turn heat on you won't get 200+ darkness from a darkness trove
native ether
it feels strange to say "the game isnt hard enough" if you havent even beaten it once :p
rugged apex
so you should definitely do that immediately.
no downsides. lots of downsides, actually, but I'm not counting
plucky oxide
People can play how they feel comfortable playing
trim ingot
imo with all sgg difficulty systems it's normal to try a few then turn it off if you don't want to
wet creek
And then i found out you could use it to go through those floor portals in the middle of runs so idek if I want to spend the heat
native ether
those floor portals are pretty good ngl
wet creek
Oh that make sense
trim ingot
the key cost
median ridge
the heat gates require active heat to be passed through
wet creek
I just assumes bc chaos likes to snatch my health
native ether
But imo they're only really there as a balancing act to high heat runs, because the game gets so much more challenging you need the extra help. But yeah its not a cost, just a bar
trim ingot
maybe they could have one option in the pact be unlocked immediately for no *keys
native ether
i still have nightmares of rolling the Tartarus hammer in the shop and having double prices on so I couldnt buy it š¤¢
trim ingot
or is that already the case i don't remember
native ether
theres about 3-4 options pre-unlocked
wet creek
I thought some options were immediately there
native ether
Stifling Darkness and Vicious Torment are 2 of em
trim ingot
right right
wet creek
You need to unlock the whole desk
plucky oxide
When I played I had to unlock the desk, I think, for a heavy price. Is that the case?
native ether
think Grim Inevitability is as well
trim ingot
the desk is only 1 key
plucky oxide
Oh then that's not bad at all.
native ether
The desk is 1 key, but all the options are 3-8 keys afaik
each
and theres like 7 to unlock
it is kinda a key sink tbf
rugged apex
there's two options by default - healing reduction and plus damage
trim ingot
but that should discourage people from immediately unlocking pact options without trying the starting ones first
plucky oxide
Yeah I've got no problem/critique to this system then. Sounds like it's working just fine. Players are in charge of balancing their game to their liking. And it doesn't punish you that hard for poking your nose into the system itself.
wet creek
yeah after i unlocked my weapons and mirror upgrades
native ether
forgetting Stifling Darkness :p
rugged apex
+damage is the safer one of these imo
wet creek
I was like tf i need keys for
native ether
i mean once you get everything you use em in runs
plucky oxide
Chests
rugged apex
since the healing reduction is a lot more significant
though I guess they're equal if you never get hit
native ether
playing with no heals really makes you improve
trust me
And then ofc rage whenever you roll Alecto
wet creek
It does honestly
plucky oxide
I wish darkness chests showed up more. It feels like my ratios of coin/darkness/health is 90%|10%|0% as of late
native ether
well I should say pre Elysium Alecto
new dash and Alecto nerfs have helped a lot on that front
wet creek
Dang what was the old dash like
pearl willow
i wish i never got darkness chests lol
forest marsh
Vicious Torment, Grim Inevitability, and Stifling Darkness are unlocked by default, the rest cost 5, 10, or 15 keys respectively
rugged apex
stifling darkness is not unlocked by default
median ridge
old dash was clunky
forest marsh
It sure is, Joan. They rearranged the Pact in the major update
rugged apex
the update I am playing right now? the update that I just checked the pact in?
forest marsh
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/hades_gamepedia_en/thumb/c/c4/PactInterface.png/1280px-PactInterface.png This is starting pact, unless they changed it in a minor update since the major one
rugged apex
they have changed it, yes. because stifling darkness is not unlocked on mine - it needs 20 keys.
forest marsh
Hmmm, appears to be an undocumented change in the most recent patch. I'll update the wiki when I get home. Thanks for correcting me 
pastel jolt
Already did it ;)
forest marsh
Thanks sparrow
quartz remnant
what does stifling darkness do?
pastel jolt
limits the amount of darkness you can use in the mirror
quartz remnant
and that's unlocked by default now? interesting...
pastel jolt
the first rank limits you to 2750 darkness, and it goes down by 250 for each rank until it maxes out at a 500 darkness limit
no, it's not
quartz remnant
pastel jolt
it used to be unlocked by default, and seems to have gotten quietly changed to taking 20 keys to unlock
quartz remnant
ooooh, I see.
So you're saying that if I had started a week ago, it would have been unlocked by default but now it's locked and uses 20 keys to unlock.
robust garden
oh so thats what that means
pastel jolt
it was shifted to the bottom of the pact in the beefy update, and i assume it was also supposed to be locked at that point as well
....actually, looking at my files from the base beefy update, it was patched to be locked at the same time as it was moved.
@forest marsh - when you took the screencap for the new pact, did you use an old save or a new one? because if you used an old save it might've already had stuff unlocked
yeah, i just looked with my three-run-elysium-clear file and stifling darkness is locked, so it looks like you might've used a prepatch save for the screenshot
trim ingot
probably because it's basically a free pact with no downsides if you beat the hydra early enough
pastel jolt
honestly i can understand why stifling darkness got pushed to the back end of the pact - if it's one of the first things you can dump heat into, it's esseentially
yeah
trim ingot
i don't even have 1k darkness yet
forest marsh
@pastel jolt I used a save that didn't have Pact unlocked, and then I unlocked it just for the purpose of the screenshot. I had also checked the files to see the key values
pastel jolt
i mean, idk what to tell you, wight. i have the files from the beefy update and from patch 20 and they all say stifling darkness takes 20 keys
this is specifically why i keep backups like this
it does say Updated Skeleton Key cost and ordering of options once the system is unlocked in the patch notes
forest marsh
I'm not sure either ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
rocky goblet
How i can unlock the sixth weapon?
robust garden
there's no sixth weapon yet
rocky goblet
But in the weapon room there are six "altars" for weapons
rugged apex
there is no sixth weapon yet
pastel jolt
i'm still holding out hope for a magic ability
i know we have the cast but gdi it would be a good counterpart to the gun
rocky goblet
Sword, Spear, Shield, Bow and Gun, no more?
pastel jolt
not at the moment
robust garden
yea thats what we curently have
pastel jolt
there's plans to add a sixth but it isn't in the game right now
i'm not sure how many more times this can be rephrased for you, my guy
robust garden
i really hope it's some magic stuff like sparrow said
rugged apex
short-ranged, fast, high-power... sickle.
pastel jolt
the sword is right over there
rocky goblet
But the gloves are more fast
atomic wyvern
Anyone know a good build to beat the miniature and Spartin guy boss fight?
rugged apex
ares cast, try to go for artemis+ares duo boon
atomic wyvern
Thanks. Any particular weapon? I been using the gun.
lost rose
Zeus attack is really good with the gun
I might have a screenshot of my gun build lying around
pastel jolt
bow can get some nice chunky hits in on them but it struggles a little bit with theseus
atomic wyvern
I never beat the game with the bow. But ill try the ares cast build.
toxic walrus
does anyone feel like the spear dudes have too much tracking on their jump attack?
pastel jolt
ares cast is a delightful deathblender and i adore it
i'd build around it more but whenever i specifically try, ares decides to offer me nothing but curse boons instead
lost rose
i do not have a screenshot of my gun build š¦
atomic wyvern
I actually really never liked Ares cast but ill give it a try.
rocky goblet
Could be a Corceus of Mercury, or Winged shoes of Hermes
pastel jolt
this is the spear build i got them with the time before last - artemis attack/cast/special + marked, zeus dash + status, armor skewer and quick spin
i got real unfortunate with the hammers on that run
would have preferred, say, vicious skewer instead of quick spin
pastel jolt
yeah, i... said that it was ;P
robust garden
i typed before reading mb
pastel jolt
zeus dash, if you drop a pom into it, is real nice
robust garden
i one got an epic one
once*
it was the best thing ever
with a pom or two it did like 60
pastel jolt
i also had THIS wretched excuse of a build, which succeeded only because i had defensive boons coming out of my ears
robust garden
damn i really need to learn the icons
pastel jolt
yeah, that's my only real complaint with the new ui
the older format was a lot easier to give people an at-a-glance overview of what you had
pastel jolt
robust garden
oh
pastel jolt
it had a habit of running off the top of the screen if you got too many boons
which would have been an even bigger problem once elysium hit and runs got longer
robust garden
i feel like maybe a hover system when holding tab would work
or a toggle to show what a specific boon does
rocky goblet
Could be a Corceus of Mercury, or Winged shoes of Hermes
This?
mint topaz
and here I am with a 18-per tick poisoned Special build that got to the end of Elysium, did it on a brand new save so I got beat down pretty hard.
pastel jolt
well, it does show the highlighted boon at the top of the window
the issue is that it only does a single boon at a time
robust garden
yes but that's still just one out of like 10-15
pastel jolt
yyyyyes, i said that
opaque merlin
@pastel jolt Responding to your suggestion here: maybe hit tab to toggle current display, hold tab to bring up the more detailed tooltips?
robust garden
not a bad idea imo
solid loom
guys I have encoutered thanatos twice now and I don't think I can ever beat him on his "challenge". Without spoilers, should I just keep trying or it has no point?
somber epoch
What zone are you fighting him in?
If its in elysium youll have a hard time unless your damage is insane
robust garden
can he appear out of asphodel
opaque merlin
It's very discouraging the first few times, but you'll figure it out eventually. I still can't reliably do it with the Adamant Rail
solid loom
.... i wasn't fighting him
pastel jolt
you can beat him, i've actually never lost to him yet lmao
solid loom
it just starts a counter on who can kill more enemies in time
somber epoch
I mean encountering him, foxy
robust garden
i've seen him twice and i lost to him both times
pastel jolt
yes, vlad, he can appear in any of the three biomes
however, i'm pretty sure you're least likely to find him in tartarus because of the conditions for his spawning
solid loom
oh ok ok, don't spoil what happens if u beat him pls š
pastel jolt
if you do not want spoilers you are in the wrong channel, buddy ;P
opaque merlin
Wait, there are spawn conditions?
solid loom
yea i know I know, leaving now lol
pastel jolt
yes
thanatos won't spawn in boss/miniboss encounters or a non-combat room like a shop
the part i'm less sure about is that i think, if i'm reading it right, he won't spawn in the first 10 chambers of tartarus, the first 2 of aspodel, or the first 3 of elysium
opaque merlin
oh, interesting
pastel jolt
and tartarus is only about 15-ish chambers long to begin with
opaque merlin
I guess that makes sense
robust garden
how many minibosses are there in elysium
robust garden
ah ok
pastel jolt
if you see a skull-marked room and you've already faced asterius, you'll just get a harder room
robust garden
oh speaking of harder rooms
in asphodel do you prefer the boat room or the megagorgon
rugged apex
boat
opaque merlin
Is there a difference in boon strength between a skull-marked boon room and a skull-marked Erebus portal for the same god?
pastel jolt
i know the infernal gates are basically guaranteed to give rare or epic boons
robust garden
are the infernal gates the ones that require heat?
pastel jolt
i've never been able to work out if 
affected regular room rewards, logically they should but i haven't pinned down whatever handles that
yes
opaque merlin
Skull room Poms are pretty definitely stronger
somber epoch
Is 120 heat max heat?
pastel jolt
no
robust garden
500 is iirc
pastel jolt
max heat is 200
robust garden
ah my bad then
plucky oxide
Another problem (that feedback has already addressed) with UI: showing builds isn't the same as showing someone what weapon you're using :V
pastel jolt
i mean, it is if you look at the icons
worldly sage
Itās probably just me but sword upgrades feel pretty lame
robust garden
yea the sword daedalus upgrades feel pretty lackluster compared to the other weapons
plucky oxide
Memorizing all the icons for each hammer, as well as all the boons icons, and parsing out which is which, is rough on new players (and veterans)
pastel jolt
pretty lame
clearly you've never tried nova builds then
robust garden
i havent
plucky oxide
Sword Daedalus boons are actually my favorite, to be honest. Very very powerful, and good hybrid synergy to be had in between special and attack.
atomic wyvern
My god that Block of his is so strong.
worldly sage
Nova builds are fun but like
After elysium was added I donāt feel like running it only for my run to be stomped by armored shield bros or the final boss
Sword past Hydra
plucky oxide
Nova's damage is pretty fast, frame wise. In comparison to the steady, consistent, and tiny hitbox dps of rail, I'd take Sword any day of the week for Elysium.
rugged apex
rail's projectile hitboxes are real small. even the spear's wider.
plucky oxide
It's so frustrating against mass waves of projectiles, especially when you don't have a high rate of fire or good piercing.
somber epoch
Heres what you do with rail
You grab the heavy slug hammer
And you put on your tf2 sniper hat and go to town
robust garden
so im not the only one that does that
it's legit the bow with perfect shot
if you time it well
rugged apex
it's pretty much just that, yeah. about the same fire rate, even.
somber epoch
My go-to for when i want to give theseus and asterius a nice smackdown is shield with athena keepsake and try to get dashing wallop hammer
Then i dash attack to victory
plucky oxide
There are two rail boons I stand by, but if I don't have those I immediately keep in the Ares cast lane.
robust garden
what are they
plucky oxide
Shotgun or Heavy Slug
robust garden
i've never actually gotten shotgun
plucky oxide
I'm not even sure if shotgun is still in the game. Haven't seen it in forever
robust garden
it is
pastel jolt
it's still in
robust garden
i've seen it like 2 days ago
plucky oxide
Yessss
robust garden
but i took heavy slug over it
plucky oxide
Artemis Dash Attack + Crit + Shotgun = a good, wholesome time
rugged apex
I don't like shotgun. it's not a static spread so it can miss things right in front of you in the most embaressing way.
plucky oxide
I think shield is probably the safest weapon currently. It's definitely not the fastest, but a tight mechanics skill and Sudden Rush equates to a crazy amount of I-Frames. Really trivializes Theseus, when I still have to play mindfully with other weapons.
Dash on shotgun lays out a quick double-tap, which really reduces a lot of that kind of goof-up, in my opinion. It wrecks shop, nine times out of ten. On HEAT runs however, there's no way I'd run it. That unreliability just isn't something I find viable when a single mistake or assumption can ruin me.
opaque merlin
I'm a big fan of bow with Artemis dash
Really any of the attack hammer upgrades except the fast shot
plucky oxide
Bow is solid. Always has been. I often wish special had more variance in its hammers and how it worked, which is why I can't say it's my favorite.
rugged apex
yeah, I wish bow had like, another special hammer
of some sort
since both of its do like. the same thing, basically.
plucky oxide
My personal adoration of weapons goes
Sword, Shield, Bow, Rail
The choice between bow specials right now depends on whether you're going for on-hit effects or not, but that's not enough flavor to get me hyped like, say, heavy bolt vs shotgun.
plucky oxide
Spear for me is just Ares cast with some sort of Special % at this point. I just don't like spear, no fault to its own.
robust garden
see i was going to do a sword run
then i got a rare ares cast
then i got an epic fully loaded by artemis
plucky oxide
Oops! Run secured
rugged apex
spear's spin is real slow, and its attack and special kinda... don't match up well against sword or bow
robust garden
this was supposed to be "a quick run"
i won the game
with that
for the first time
and it was the most fun i've ever had
rugged apex
like, I kinda wish spear had like, a sweet-spot for the stab or something? it just doesn't feel as good as the other weapons
plucky oxide
Spear used to be the best weapon in the game. It's hard to balance something when the spear seems designed to All-In on either Special or attack, with damage stacking. The additive change and crit changes were a big hit to it, as well as that new spin animation.
pearl willow
can't see room rewards and stumble into an artemis/athena god trial anyway, winner.
plucky oxide
Congrats! An amazing duo
robust garden
what even is the spear special
rugged apex
throw spear. recall spear.
pastel jolt
*in your opinion
hard holly
Well, sure
Though I havent seen anyone really making spear special work
Spear spin with quick spin is still really good
Regular spin does have a weird animation thing now
I didnt notice it in the patchnotes, but it seems a lot clunkier
The weirdest part however
Is that it seems to sometimes let you to immideatly follow up with another attack->charge
If you aim at a certain angle
plucky oxide
Spear special won me a run just yesterday. It's the best part of spear in my opinion. It's just not guaranteed critting on return anymore. Large spin is now dramatically worse than small spin
hard holly
The not guaranteed critting isnt even the big problem tbh
Its that I could stack 6 perfect boons and hammers and do 300 damage per hit
rugged apex
it feels Bad to use. even though it's actually pretty good
hard holly
Or get 1 hammer and 2 boons with Bow and do 600+ damage per hit
plucky oxide
I'm not even sure it's the damage or the viability of spear that's got me talking like this. It's always been the least interesting weapon, kit wise, from my perspective. The additive damage seems to have tugged the rug out from under it
hard holly
Eh, I liked it a lot
Spear special was fun just for those lined up return hits
Its like bowling, in a way
rugged apex
it's very straightforwards and to-the-point.
plucky oxide
Yep. Best part!
pastel jolt
i like it, it's not my favourite but it's certainly not the worst
hard holly
And Spin has a lot of fun interactions
pastel jolt
the fast attack speed without any hammer needed makes it fun with zeus attack
hard holly
But special just feels so, idk, flat?
Its not got a whole lot of utility like bow special or even sword special
Its damage is now extremely underwhelming
And even the hammer upgrades feel iffy
plucky oxide
I like the fact that there are different stages of spear charge. And lining up the shot after rearranging your position feels solid.
hard holly
Though I cant say much about multiskewer, I dont even know if its multiplicative or additive
I imagine the latter
pastel jolt
speaking of spear special, i know they've been fiddling with the damage number on it in the last couple updates, i really gotta check it out at some point in case i need to update the wiki
hard holly
Explosive Launcher, now that damage is all additive, lost the potential it couldve had
plucky oxide
I'd love something that slowed down the spear somewhat, or reduced its range for unique benefits.
opaque merlin
I understand the move towards additive bonuses for balancing purposes, but it just feels so bad in comparison
hard holly
Honestly, I think the move was reasonable
But the base damage accross weapons and hammer upgrades really needs to get looked at
opaque merlin
There are some things that have become additive that really do need to stay multiplicative. Like, say, backstab
hard holly
Or hell, make hammer upgrades all multiplicative again
Several of them effectively are as is anyway
And the gap between them, and the regular ones has widened considerably
Before stuff like Perfect Shot vs Triple Shot was an actual consideration
Now you just always go Triple Shot because it scales so much better
opaque merlin
right
rugged apex
wait, what's the timing for dash attacks? because I'm dashing+attacking and hunter dash fails like half the time.
hard holly
Attack immideatly after dash
Shield and Sword are easy to notice if youre getting it (Sword has a thrusting animation, shield basically does the attack twice really quickly if you press attack twice)
Bow charges a fair bit faster
Gun fires faster I think?
Spear is completely impossible to tell
What weapon are you on
rugged apex
s p e a r
plucky oxide
Does anyone have an issue consistently getting the dash-attack animation with sword? It seems like I get two-three thrusts, and then there are chances I start failing to thrust altogether.
rugged apex
this is very counterintuitive
hard holly
Lemme guess, youre trying to spin-dash?
rugged apex
no - I actually have that down pretty well. normal dash attacks just don't seem to happen half the time.
hard holly
Ah
Yeah I cant say much there
Ive not tried to dash attack with spear in ages
Its basically a single regular hit for 15 damage
icy fjord
Is there any generally agreed-on ranking for the weapons
spice turret
I believe at high heat, shield is the most solid? Sword with instant nova is apparently real good at dishing out damage if you're going speed. Bow and rail, I'm not sure about, but spear seems to be the black sheep at the moment.
hard holly
There really isnt, no
spice turret
In all honesty, though, most people have their preferred weapon, and it's often different weapons
hard holly
Speedruns use Sword with instant nova and Poseidon Dash
icy fjord
š¤
That's good they're all reasonably good, I remember all the weapons in Bastion felt like thye had a viable niche
hard holly
Well
Spear is probably in the weirdest spot right now
Its the only "bad" weapon if you dont get one specific hammer upgrade
And even then bad is less "you cant win with this" and more "its gonna be slow and awkward"
icy fjord
Which upgrade?
spice turret
Cheers. 
atomic wyvern
Well i did it guy I got to the end! it was hard but man I can't wait to see the ending I hope it is good
rugged apex
||Is there no escape?||
atomic wyvern
||No there is not, I was surprised too, Thought there was only three levels||
native ether
on the weapon discussion i personally loathe the bow, but thats because i dont like its playstyle, not necessarily that its bad
the spear i find to be the most versatile weapon, but can fall flat if you dont get enough powers on it
the shield is good but I think using it repetitively can lead to "bad play habits" as it lets you play very very aggressively and almost in a bad way (where you'll get punished esp with higher heat if you're not careful)
sword is great, just make sure you get a good cast with range
rail is my personal favorite, that thing can seriously kill things dead assuming you dont get really bad hammers
rocky goblet
Who's are the final boss?
atomic wyvern
Yeah that is the final boss right now but i though there was only 3 levels they were planning for the game. But if you played the game a lot Hades tells you himself in a cutscene there is no escaping hell he has tried.
heavy bone
so with Athena's boon "Blinding Flash" that says "Your attacks that Deflect also make foes Exposed"
do I need to deflect with the attack to get Exposed
or can I just attack normally
that is, if my attack deflects
atomic panther
You don't need to hit with a deflected attack, just with an attack that would deflect. The wording is not the best, I know
heavy bone
ok that makes it a lot better than I thought. ty
atomic wyvern
Does anyone know if Dionysus Cast work with Exit Wounds (Your foes suffer damage when your Cast Ammo stuck in them is dislodged.) Since they don't get lodged in the person?
quaint gale
my initial guess would be no
atomic wyvern
That is what i think too
atomic wyvern
Yeah but Hunting Blades (Your Cast creates a faster Blade Rift that seeks the nearest foe.) Is pretty good
pearl willow
man deathless until a small room with a few elite spearmen and shieldbearers, i just cannot not make a mistake eventually lol
atomic wyvern
@pearl willow do you have any heat on you?
It should be pretty easy with no heat. But even i sometimes loose a life to them depending on what route i go and how good my boons are.
Sometimes I'll even take a shop room just so i can skip a room.
pearl willow
yeah, playing with 75
so they hit hard and to make matters worse i was using bow with no good AoE cast so even killing the souls was tricky with death insurance lol, hard to get off at least three/four shots
mighty ermine
new heated heights! https://i.imgur.com/ch2Etby.png
lost rose
You can use F10 in-game to report bugs!
lost rose
@mighty badge Are you referring to dash attack boons? Those are separate from dash boons
mighty badge
I'm thinking specifically of the Artemis boon that increases dash damage, and the chaos boon that does the same thing
lost rose
Right - they're for a different purpose
Your "dash attack" is using a weapon immediately out of your dash
All the weapons have a dash attack
mighty badge
Ah, I did not realise that was the case
lost rose
Yeah, there are some dash boons, like Dionysus, Poseidon, etc. that cause area of effect damage around your dash, while others, like Artemis, or Chaos, boost a weapon attack as you come out of your dash
mighty badge
Right, so I just misunderstood what that was entirely
lost rose
š
mighty badge
I have adjusted my feedback
quasi moat
-unsheathes Aegis-
forgive me Achilles, but I must go all out, just this once
quasi moat
oh right no swears, sorry
*I hate the rooms with the archers
lost all 5 death defies
dull berry
Okay question.
- Artemis Pain Gate
- Daedalus Hammer
- Pom of Power
Which do I take? I'm divided.
rugged apex
weapon?
dull berry
varatha spear
rugged apex
hammer
somber epoch
arty
rocky goblet
Titans
median ridge
hunting blades is so good
had a run with all of ares's cast buffs, hunting blades, and 4 extra casts from artemis
rocky goblet
Add titans :o
rugged apex
the more I use the shield the more I think it's way stronger than it should be
100% block is really good
pastel jolt
which makes it all the more painful that i fail utterly every time i use it :c
forest marsh
Sorry, don't mean to trivialize the experience 
rugged apex
it's not 100% victory but being able to just hold up the shield and block fifty damage and kinda just clown on tisiphone in general... is really strong
teal helm
I think it all depends on style. I'm not bad with the shield, but if I get the triple-bomb upgrade on the Adamant Rail with any damage-dealing dash, I can stomp some serious ass all over the underworld
plucky oxide
My best Ares Hunting Blades builds hit 17 minutes.
fathom hawk
https://imgur.com/nXi2pGK Just finished it but with a rather weird combination xD
plucky oxide
Congrats! That's a lot of health š
fathom hawk
Taaaankin! hahaha
xD
I decided I should be as meaty as these two bastards at the end xD
pearl willow
if you re-roll a god duel/trial do you get another one with different gods or does it just become another 'tier 2' room?
forest marsh
I know it used to reroll into just a single god, but I haven't tried it myself. I don't see why it wouldn't still do that, though
mighty ermine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i5JKZ8h7kY went ahead and uploaded the 153 heat run! Potentially the luckiest run I've ever had, in terms of boons I wanted and general performance
rocky goblet
I finish a run, my first run finished
forest marsh
Congrats!
rocky goblet
Thanks!
worldly grove
Oh that's a "call me" emote, I thought it was the Shaka sign haha
rocky goblet
I finish again... Well, i need the last version
forest marsh
Not sure what you mean?
proper comet
Hey is there a chart with different builds I can look at?
forest marsh
I don't think anyone has made any charts that I'm aware of, no. You can always look at all the boons as a whole on the wiki, though!
lost rose
Sorta hard to chart that stuff when balance is changing all the time!
forest marsh
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Boons the boons for each god are detailed on their respective pages
mighty ermine
and if you're interested in what boons or boon combinations are currently very good or to other players' tastes, feel free to ask anyone here!
rocky goblet
Which is the best boon?
austere pebble
yes
proper comet
Me personally been like Poseidons just because it helps a lot when using the bow
forest marsh
Poseidon is very good with bow
proper comet
2nd fav is Artemis cause if the damage you can stack up, especially paired with cast
unkempt pagoda
i stan chaos
proper comet
Athena low key really good to vs. the Hydra. Her deflect saved my ass so many times lol
pearl willow
well that's really annoying. when you have the double dash attack hammer upgrade with sword there's a substantially longer delay between the dash attack and when you can nova even with instant nova.
rocky goblet
My favorite are Athenas, Zeus, Hammer and Dyonisus(i not remember how write)
And the best benefit? My favorite is the benefit of Dusa, but only Asphodel
eternal stag
poseidon's wrath is imo the best, i've had all my best builds with athena dash + dio special
proper comet
Do we not get to see Thanatos and Meg anymore? I haven't ran into them since the beefy update. (Did 3 runs against the other 2 Furries and the Maininotaur)
rugged apex
they'll show up eventually
worldly grove
I like the Backstab perk combined with the Bow's Volley and the Gift that gives it more arrows. Dash behind an enemy and deal savage damage
eternal stag
funny you say that because i Finally met than for the first time ever
worldly grove
i fought Meg a bit ago
proper comet
Do you interact with them in the lounge once you encounter them again
forest marsh
Yes, you can interact with them in the House after encountering them on a run
proper comet
Ayyyee, random question but y'all think co-op would be a good idea for this game
pseudo crow
that's a complicated question for me, because on one hand i absolutely adore singleplayer experiences, but on the other hand how fun would it be to scream with a friend when the mobs and bosses get overwhelming? hahaha
eternal stag
man though the screen is already so hectic
imagine two people running around causing visual effects
forest marsh
They've pretty much ruled out co-op/multiplayer, it's their intent to be a single player narrative experience.
That said, as a thought experiment? I agree that I think it would be too hectic.
pseudo crow
true true, imagine if both of you had like, aoe boons and upgrades
that's a bunch of game crashes right there haha
golden pawn
Welcome to Erebus: Extreme mode. The only thing you can see is damage indicators and literally nothing else! Good luck
atomic panther
Rail + Cluster Bomb + Hope
pearl willow
huh. so exit wounds actually causes damage in a small AoE, it's not just single target.
forest marsh
Wait, what?!
unkempt pagoda
what???
forest marsh
Gods, now I have to go look in the data
unkempt pagoda
it was already good
pearl willow
yeah, i was just watching mine in Erebus while i ran around the outside of the room. it's definitely not a large AoE but for a single bloodstone lodged i would see multiple instances of 200 damage pop up.
forest marsh
Hmmm, I can't see anything in the script that would indicate it's supposed to be AoE, so that might actually be a bug
kindred wren
could it be a boon effect?
forest marsh
That's a good question... I don't think a cast boon procs on drop, though. But maybe
And it's only doing the Exit Wounds damage, nothing else
kindred wren
Ares boon may cause a small doom explosion after a short delay of hitting the enemy, I think, so I was thinking maybe something similar
pearl willow
dont think so. i tried to recreate it with two shieldbearers but didnt have any luck and other elysium rooms are not really... conducive to waiting around lol
forest marsh
I would honestly report it as a bug, if you haven't already
It doesn't seem like intended behaviour
rocky goblet
Dude, what's in the blanket? How do I unlock it?
forest marsh
I assume you mean in Skelly's room?
You have to complete runs with 15, 60, and 120 Heat 
respectively to unlock those
forest marsh
So you allotted 15 in the Pact, completed a run, and it didn't let you uncover the first one?
rocky goblet
Yes, i had 15, but only use 2 or 3 in the Pact
forest marsh
Ah, you misunderstand the requirements. You have to be using that much , not just have it in your inventory
forest marsh
Yes, you have to win a run with the required amount of active in order to unlock the rewards
rocky goblet
Well, i have 17
dreamy anvil
i also want to do Heatruns ... but i said that i will do it after my Winstreak breaks up but it seems that the game have nothing to do with luck or badluck when u have enough shards in your Mirror its impossible to lose
lost rose
i mean, yeah, if you're winning easily you should try out heat! the mirror doesn't trivialize it in my opinion; i can turn most of the darkness off and have a similar experience
stifling darkness is one of my favorite things to max out on high heat
a dash and maybe a death defy is all you really need
tho the extra health and money are nice bonuses
second dash isn't even strictly necessary anymore, with the changes to the way the dash works
formal wyvern
Does the explosive spear hammer upgrade override boons that add effects to the special?
I can't tell if my lightning is still hitting
atomic wyvern
@forest marsh Blanks in skelly's room? What blanket?
lost rose
there are three rewards in the bottom corner of the room covered in sheets/blankets
you can uncover them if you finish heat runs
manic ermine
Damage reduction builds are so silly
I think I'm going to try and cheese a heat run with it
dreamy anvil
can someone explain me the rerollsystem ... when i reroll a key can there be a boon or can i just get darkness and ambrosia?
atomic wyvern
@lost rose really!! Damn i need to step my game up. I though heat was just for bragging rights.
lost rose
it mostly is - though the "rewards" are fun in their own right
they have no use or purpose - just bragging rights :P
@dreamy anvil There are broadly speaking two categories of reroll, blue laurels and gold laurels (you can see the colors around the rewards on any given door). Blue laurels include keys, darkness, heat, and ambrosia (i think). Gold laurels include poms, boons, hammers, obols, etc.
Someone should double check me on that but - when you reroll a door, the reroll reward will always be within the same category as the original reward. You can't reroll darkness into a boon, or a pom into a key.
manic ermine
Shops are weird and can be in both categories and cannot be rolled
raven lintel
money is in the same category as boons and health and poms
forest marsh
The heat rewards are for those with the most discerning taste
lost rose
There are also some events - like bosses - where you will always reroll another boon
manic ermine
Ha, Killed Theseus in 3 minutes with no input thanks to damage reduction and revenge boons
unkempt pagoda
also the gods are in two different sets, and you can't reroll out of the sets (it'll just go back over into the first god)
ares-artemis-aphrodite, pos-zeus-dio
athena is weird, i've seen her in both
atomic wyvern
Intresting.... i really hope the next update has updates to the house. I would really like to see the guarden net to the shop keeper or maybe the locked doors. Personally i think they are shortcuts to the other levels.
lost rose
At least one of them is Hades' room/rooms, I think...Zag calls it "my father's hall" or something when asking Achilles to open the doors
And if I had to hazard a guess, the garden was Persephone's...hence it being closed off now
somber epoch
counterpoint: it's skelly's
formal wyvern
No one has any idea how the explosive spear hammer upgrade is supposed to work with the boons that modify the special?
somber epoch
i think certain hammer boons can't be taken wiith one another
i.e. you can't take world splitter and flurry blade
turbid needle
yeah, they're mutually exclusive
formal wyvern
Yeah, I've notice that. I was more specifically wondering how the explosive spear hammer upgrade works with the boons
*noticed
The interactions between hammer upgrades and boons are actually a bit unclear in general
forest marsh
I'm actually not certain where the confusion lies here? What boon(s) are you not sure how they are working? With the explosive spear, your special still has the same effects from boons as without the hammer, it just adds an explosion
somber epoch
I think what he might be saying is say he has the Athena boon on Special
does the explosion also deflect?
formal wyvern
In this case I have the Zeus one that is supposed to cause lightning, and it's hard to see if it's still working. This specific case led me to wonder about the other interactions
I got the hammer upgrade and used it briefly before I left for work, so I don't have the game in front of me
But the intention is for all boons to stack with the hammer upgrades and none of the hammer upgrades overwrite boons?
formal wyvern
Good to know
I'm glad the game doesn't let me mess myself up like Binding of Isaac does
formal wyvern
In most cases it seems clear when a boon is going to mess up another one. At least so far
somber epoch
there isn't really any bad synergies, i think
forest marsh
The only way, currently, to really mess up boon synergy is to take an Exchange that removes an effect that a tier 2 or 3 boon relies on
somber epoch
thats just making it less optimal
as opposed to it having a negative effect
like, there are no punishing boons to take so to speak
forest marsh
I suppose you can look at it that way. The Exchange does make it possible for you to have boons that don't do anything, though, which some might consider punishing
somber epoch
in isaac you can most definitely shoot yourself in the foot
forest marsh
But yes, there's nothing that really breaks your run in a bad way
somber epoch
you never have to worry about breaking zag's base functionality
atomic wyvern
@lost rose makes sence, i would also like to see where the other harpies hang out. But that may be asking to much.
turbid needle
there's nothing that breaks your run in bad way... takes world splitter with dionysus/zeus attack ... :>
somber epoch
rather they aren't allowed in the house
it doesnt break your run, it's just not the best boon/hammer combo there is
pastel jolt
there was discussion of the rerolls earlier and i'd like to also mention:
- two doors in the same room cannot show the same reward, which is useful to note in asphodel which can have three exits in certain room layouts
- gods seem to fall into specific 'groups' as far as rerolls go but i haven't figured all that out just yet, but basically that means you can't reroll into any god on a particular gold door
proud storm
rerolls tend to cycle through 3 different things in a category
at least from my own experience
pastel jolt
what i really need to do is go bac to the experiment i was doing where i cheated my way to having, like, 100 rerolls and then just testing it out
somber epoch
hrm that sounds fun
pastel jolt
it was a lot of writing stuff down and i was feeling Particularly Inattentive that day so i ended up abandoning it
somber epoch
i mean the 100 rerolls bit
pastel jolt
i mean, part of the point of the rerolls is that they're limited
if you have effectively endless rerolls then what's even the point of having to choose
somber epoch
i agree i wouldn't use such power for actual gameplay reasons
i want to make videos about Hades showcasing each weapon and how boons work w each weapon so something like that would be helpful
proud storm
last reroll gave me dio again but i stop recording thinking i was out of rerolls fskgjhhd
pastel jolt
pfft
that's interesting though because i'm sure i got stuck in a cycle of zeus/ares/artemis the last time i tested it
which suggests these god 'pools' are set per-run?
it's the sort of thing i'd want to set aside a decent chunk of time and perhaps a spreadhseet to investigate, for sure
plush blaze
I think they're set per room
pearl willow
i don't think doors are specific to any one or group of them but i do think each seed is at least weighted towards certain gords.
gods*
plush blaze
Per-run is technically accurate because it all comes down to the seed, but there's so much variation influencing minor RNG which affects the god pool
pastel jolt
yeah......
pearl willow
in my experience you're usually receiving boons from the same 2-4 gods in a given run and then the others either cannot appear or receive no weighted priority and are exceedingly rare. like if you take a god boon trinket for a god that isn't weighted in the seed ive found it can be the only boon you get from that god for the entire run. i think.
somber epoch
ive had the opposite
pastel jolt
somber epoch
or rather ive had runs where all the gods showed up and were like "hi"
pastel jolt
that's always fun
you get halfway through asphodel and look over and it's just a rainbow parade of different-coloured god boons on the side of your screen
like "i don't know where this build is going but it sure is going"
cold plover
I think...I need an easy mode...TVT and I do love this game~~
somber epoch
what are you struggling with, navadel?
pearl willow
not sure about that, i've played a ton and while ive not been paying attention to this in particular i don't think i've ever had a boon from every god. though maybe i could and just always skip dio lol.
formal wyvern
Dio seems to be the most polarizing
vast eagle
i like the dps he gives on attacks if i'm running rail or spear or flurry blade sword
somber epoch
i should try dio cast builds one of these days
vast eagle
on the topic of rail, spear, & sword, none of these weapons have worked for me against theseus bc i'm not good at circumventing his block
what's the consensus say is useful against him?
somber epoch
the dash button
he does have windows of vulnerability where you can get behind his shield, but you gotta be looking for them
vast eagle
gotcha
I can usually kill asterius but I take too many hits from his spear in the meantime before I can get him far below half
so probably just have to pay more attention when I've the little target on me
somber epoch
i like running deflect builds to help with projectiles
vast eagle
oh yeah I can imagine that'd be super useful
pearl willow
dio's damage over time just doesn't scale that well and id rather apply other status curses for privileged status. the cast isn't bad but it doesn't apply sick/boiling blood/exit wounds and is heck of opaque.
pastel jolt
you definitely want to keep your distance from theseus - i've noticed that if you hang around him too long then he'll start doing spins and stuff and that's not something you want to deal with while asterius is around
but go too far and you're going to lose track of where he is, which usually results in taking a spear to the face that you thought would hit the pillar you're hiding behind instead
vast eagle
yeah, that's usually what happens - I can't see where he is & then hide wrong
heavy bone
whew I just barely got through asphodel on 60 heat for the first time. I'm pretty sure i'm going to die to the first Greatshield I see but hey, progress
I actually died in the second room of Elysium, which is double the amount of what I was expecting
night pasture
do curses still get applied to theseus if he blocks the attack that causes them?
I haven't been able to get a single victory with the rail and am contriving a build to do it
pearl willow
they do not iirc
atomic wyvern
@heavy bone it is ok there have been rooms where i have lost 100 heath.
You are doing great.
night pasture
I'm guessing theseus can block AOE damage too, right?
plucky oxide
Ares cast chews him up currently
pastel jolt
he doesn't block lightning bolts or ares cast
doesn't block tipsy shot (dio cast) either
median ridge
i find he typically doesnāt block rail special if you angle it properly
atomic panther
Yeah if you land the rail special behind Theseus his shield doesn't block it. Triple Bomb has proven invaluable for me getting through that fight
iron wolf
Does the pierced butterfly bonus stay with you if you change keepsakes?
atomic panther
Artemis Triple Bomb was how I beat them, yeah XD
median ridge
you only get the benefits of keepsakes that are equipped
pseudo ocean
During the Theseus fight when he randomly chooses to use his Poseidon special attack, it seems a little imbalanced compared to some of his other God specials. Specifically, the full floor AOE that requires you to stand in a small "sweet spot" in the middle seems particularly punishing if you're not using a shield. Seems like it's designed so that you have to stand in the middle for ~2 seconds to avoid the AOE (while chariots are chasing you and Theseus' spear is homing in on you). If you try to dash away you take 20 or so damage from the AOE. I just did a bow run and everything was smooth sailing until he popped Poseidon. Almost seems like I have to choose whether to get hit by the AOE or all of the other crap coming at me. Am I missing something here?
proud storm
you can dash through the aoe damage if you time it right
rugged apex
yeah - it's hard to time, though.
pastel jolt
honestly? i've dashed through it loads
rugged apex
I think a bigger problem is that killing the minotaur first makes the fight way harder
pastel jolt
really?
honestly, i can't imagine dealing with phase 2 theseus while asterius is trying to gore me
rugged apex
two chariots+theseus is a lot worse than one chariot+asterius imo
pastel jolt
i've never had two chariots at once with theseus :o
pseudo ocean
I get 2 chariots every time, but it may be from the Pact +% enemy spawn
pastel jolt
oh, yeah, that would do it
pearl willow
i think up to three chariots can spawn potentially, i have the same experience that theseus + chariots is worse than theseus + asterius unless i have a strong knockback
rugged apex
I don't have pact on, and I get two with theseus every time
it's a lot harder than dodging asterius imo
pseudo ocean
Now that I think about it, I think I get 3 with pact on.
rugged apex
at least minoboy doesn't constantly chase you!
vale sphinx
How do you shake off the bull boy without shield block or deflect? Whenever I dash out of the way he seems to 180Ā° right into my back
pseudo ocean
I make him run into Theseus. Seems to piss him off and stun them both for a second or two.
rugged apex
you can do that? oh my god. I need to try that next run.
pseudo ocean
Yeah, I think that's the intended "solution" because it makes Theseus mad
plucky oxide
Similar timing window of I-Frames in Meg's spin attack to avoid damage with your dash, in comparison to the big AOE Theseus olympian stuff. If you can focus enough, you can avoid the giant circles. Of course, that gets a lot harder with those boss' attack patterns thrown into the mix as well.
rugged apex
oh yeah, miniboss fight - the phoenix pillars are great to make him run into, since they do a lot of damage on top of getting him off of you
vale sphinx
My reaction times are like abysmal, idk why Iām playing this game even hahaha, Iām struggling to beat the thing on 0 heat and nearly maximum darkness, I guess I just like the story and suffering a lot lol
pseudo ocean
It just takes practice and a bit of luck as far as the build goes, you'll get there. Do you use a controller?
formal wyvern
What does the community consider the best keepsakes to be right now? Collar almost seems mandatory before investing much in the mirror and when going to Elysium
I haven't unlocked them all yet, but it's hard to pass it up
pastel jolt
nah