theres that one shield hammer upgrade that's super op
#h1-builds-and-combat
proud storm
elfin pulsar
which one? the one that I got today seemed strong but it was heat 0, hard to tell
dense goblet
OP RUN STILL GOT IT SCREENSHOTED
elfin pulsar
oh yep thats the one
bold salmon
New bosses are not easy...
proud storm
the base explosion damage is pretty high and it scales with your god special boons
elfin pulsar
got it on the very first level, it was hilarious clearing tartarus rooms in 10 seconds
bold salmon
First time i got killed by a boss before getting it under 50%
proud storm
explosion also gains the potential effects of your special boon
elfin pulsar
you can also throw the shield into walls or pillars to spam explosions
proud storm
e.g pushing enemies away
dense goblet
Also really good at defending at rushing fast attacks when needed
night compass
elysium thanatos room like
foes slain by thanatos: 30
foes slain by zagreus: 16
proud storm
fun fact
dense goblet
Elysium than is op?
proud storm
men and their souls count as separate enemies
if you cant kill the men kill their souls
elfin pulsar
that is fun, bet thanatos doesn't know that
proud storm
so you let thanatos kill them in their man form and take care of the souls
that way you should be even
dense goblet
So you get the the kills?
proud storm
you both get kills
elfin pulsar
i've never beat him, do you get anything for it?
proud storm
centaur heart
elfin pulsar
neat
placid pike
What do you guys think about the new dashing? It feels oddly floaty to me.
pastel jolt
theseus and the minotaur are chamber 39, right?
elfin pulsar
I wish it went a little further but it feels quite smooth
proud storm
yes sparrow
proud storm
nah it's double dash only now
dense goblet
Really?
proud storm
but believe me the revamped dash is great
dense goblet
Well that's bad triple wad just barely nice to dodge some attacks before
Well i ll give it a go and see for myself when it's ready
proud storm
not sure if thats just me but you feel the i-frames more w/ the new dash
midnight cliff
best perk ever https://imgur.com/a/pKNTS3M
And jeah I like the new dash better then the others
elfin pulsar
wow alecto is SOOOO much easier to deal with now
pastel jolt
oh my god i'm so ANGRY
elfin pulsar
feels like they cut her rage speed in half
old rivet
bold salmon
Wasnt that hard before the patch 😅
old rivet
Fist clear
midnight cliff
alecto with 60+ skulls was a death wish
elfin pulsar
for you maybe, alecto was the hardest boss for me period
pastel jolt
i got to theseus and the minotaur again and i killed the minotaur, had theseus at a sliver of health, and theseus got me
i've never been more annoyed to see this goddamn screen
midnight cliff
Kill theasus first tbh
old rivet
Alecto is a joke now
midnight cliff
the minotaur is easy to kite, theseus is anoying with his throws
elfin pulsar
alecto feels like shes the same difficulty as her sisters now
old rivet
I wish there was like a sandbox mode just to train how to dodge foes atacks
elfin pulsar
which makes sense
old rivet
New update so much to learn
midnight cliff
perhaps later somewhere
there are still 2.5 areas locked in the beginning
the .5 is hades bedroom
old rivet
I'ts hard to learn new enemies patterns as is
midnight cliff
tbh it is easier
bold salmon
Ill give you the best tip to learning enemy patterns: Dont get hit.
midnight cliff
the third act is somewhat difficult with certain weapons which I like
old rivet
If i dont know their atacks how do i not get hit ?
proud storm
just stay away
elfin pulsar
the struggle with learning the third act is definitely how long it takes to get there, but I guess thats what no heat runs are for
bold salmon
Spam dodge and run away
old rivet
That doesnt apply to bosses does it =?
elfin pulsar
you dont realy wanna spam dodge, unless things have changed with the new one
bold salmon
I did it with hydra for a bit
elfin pulsar
better to just run and watch their patterns, then dodge
proud storm
i mean you cant do everything flawlessly on the first few tries now
midnight cliff
hydra is 10x easier now lol
the hardest thing with hydra were the shockwaves on the ground
old rivet
It's supposed to be easier
midnight cliff
now they are slow as a snail
elfin pulsar
that and the stupid instant chomp
old rivet
Isnt the final boss now i guess
old rivet
Bosses got nerfed so it is easier to reach the final one i think
elfin pulsar
definitely, makes a lot of sense
lots of people were struggling getting through asphodel as it is, would be really rough for them to have more acts after
midnight cliff
I think the mini boss battle with the bull is to hard for its place
proud storm
sudden rush is still there
midnight cliff
all the previous mini bosses were easy while at act 3 you get an actual boss battle to pass
old rivet
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
elfin pulsar
so it seems like getting athenas attack boon messes up sudden spin
do not recommend it
adds the end lag back on
old rivet
What is status curse ??
midnight cliff
Electricity gives jolt
water gives the 'moving damages enemies for the amount they travel'
proud storm
basically aphro's weak, dio's sick, ares' doom etc
jolt makes enemies take damage on their next attack
midnight cliff
you will find out iwhen you get boons
elfin pulsar
athena gets backstab
proud storm
athena gets backstab and artemis gets higher crit chance
proud storm
artemis' status curse applies a mark on enemies if you hit them with a crit
enemies with a mark are more likely to take crit damage
midnight cliff
not worth it though
proud storm
oh it is
midnight cliff
artemis buff seems weak for how long is
proud storm
the mark duration refreshes if you crit again
midnight cliff
hmm
old rivet
I had it on my 1st run ( and clear ) was pretty good
midnight cliff
I think they need to lower the bull health in the mini boss battle by about 35%ish
old rivet
There is a mini boss battle whit bull?
midnight cliff
he has the full health of an endgame boss. Compared to any other mini boss stage its like 200% harder
yus
bold salmon
I havent seen a single "mini"-boss
midnight cliff
the bull is a miniboss stage / medusa big head is mini boss
old rivet
me neither
bold salmon
Oh i have seen medusa i guess
midnight cliff
the skull levels are mini boss stages
midnight cliff
you get double the amount or bigger chance for good boons
old rivet
When a skull appears on chamber rewards?
midnight cliff
yar
old rivet
do the colors chambers rewards have do something or just decorative?
midnight cliff
Unsure about that but so far it doesn't seem to do anything different
midnight cliff
Not sure, some1 else has to respond to that
proud storm
blue laurels are resources
civic wraith
rerolls got added and they add rarity
civic wraith
in the sense u get to trade
old rivet
So if i reroll a blue laurel i can only get resorces?
proud storm
yeah
wispy mirage
hey, do you like the new dash better or is it worse?
civic wraith
i love the new dash
proud storm
it's better
civic wraith
i like the whallop hammer buff for aegis
wispy mirage
ah, cool dindt like the old one as much as it felt kindof stagnating especiallsy in the "survive" rooms
civic wraith
new dash adds more fluidity because you dont have to wait as many frames before you can act again
old rivet
When using tab to show ugrades and boons it's really anoying that we cant move
old rivet
Ye and to press tab then click on the boon we want to check then tab out takes really long
elfin pulsar
massive spin with quick spin is just as good as expected
I do have an athena attack boon to go with it though, might be helping
old rivet
Two hammer upgrades = pog
fickle coyote
when you have 7 death defiance = pog
old rivet
when you have 600 hp = pog
fickle coyote
ye!
pastel jolt
welp, it appears i still don't know how to use the shield properly
civic wraith
dash attack spree
old rivet
Double hammer combinations are going to be wild
elfin pulsar
990 crits with this spin 
gritty shell
So has anybody figured out when you can attack Theseus and not be consistently blocked? I was using the sword and I think nearly every attack I used was blocked, even when behind him. My dash was the only thing that could deal consistent damage to him.
old rivet
Havent played whit sword yet
frosty pier
ahhhh the rail
comes in the clutch
...with no heat and 500 hp but comes in non the less
elfin pulsar
2 for 2 vs these clowns, and yeah I really dont understand theseus blocks either
it seems like he can still block from behind
low patio
I used the spear and managed to cause a good amount of damage when getting it back. However, sometimes he was oriented from the side enough for my hit not to be counted as backstab and thus not to hurt him...
elfin pulsar
maybe thats what it is, I just kept trying to spin slash him and it might have been hitting sideways
pearl herald
Had athena's cast and it seemed to be hitting him quite consistently
sorry aphrodite's cast
elfin pulsar
sick? is that dio?
pearl herald
yeah it's dio
hard holly
Sick is Dio, Doom is Ares
forest marsh
Yeah, all the gods got Curse effects and the existing ones were renamed
hard holly
And tbh
I can actually see Doom being useful against Theseus which is rather surprising
elfin pulsar
sorta like blight wine more, doom is cool thjo
hard holly
Blight wine is probably better?
pastel jolt
well, how do you feel when you’re hungover?
hard holly
I think blocked attacks still cause it to go on him
pearl herald
doom is useful against him because he tends to keep his distance and it's quite easy to dodge him if you stay far away
forest marsh
It really is, Owen. Especially Ares + Aphro with Dire Misfortune and Curse of Longing
hard holly
Though that seems like it shouldnt happen?
elfin pulsar
wait a second, just got a rare poseidens wrath that says impact damage 260
hard holly
I know you can lodge your cast in enemies that are blocking
pearl herald
I didn't have either of those curses but i'm pretty sure I was applying weak through blocks
elfin pulsar
didn't it do just 65 before?
pearl herald
so those two should work
hard holly
Wightfyre, can you confirm that blocked attacks apply doom and sick?
forest marsh
It was buffed, checked the patch notes
elfin pulsar
yeah but thats like a 4x buff
forest marsh
I can confirm, yes
elfin pulsar
400% damage increase + better duration and movement seems kinda overkill
forest marsh
Also, I adore the AR in this update now. Such awesome double hammer synergies
hard holly
AR?
forest marsh
Adamant Rail
elfin pulsar
doing a run with heavy slug right now, if I get infinity chamber idk whats gonna happen
forest marsh
Oh, nice Unbeared! That's a great combo
elfin pulsar
don't have it yet, but its the goal
forest marsh
See if you can't get some crit on Attack
Oh, I missed the conditional in your comment 
elfin pulsar
have you seen it yet? it seems like it'd be too OP to even be available
hard holly
What does Heavy Slug do
forest marsh
Replaces AR attack with a single 80 damage shot
hard holly
So its basically the replacement for the old shotgun?
elfin pulsar
you only have 1 round in ur clip
elfin pulsar
yup, had a choice between slug, shotgun, and infinite
hard holly
Wait
How would those 2 interact
Or is that a case where they just cant be picked at once
elfin pulsar
hoping to find out 😄
the only thing I would think of is that it regains the attack speed of the original weapon
but with 80 damage shots
forest marsh
I think there are some that can't be matched, but I haven't had that one personally so can't say either way
hard holly
Let me just look up Vicious Skewer
Yeah its unusable
So much worse than the original one
elfin pulsar
whats the numbers on it now?
hard holly
10% damage up, 50% crit chance on return
elfin pulsar
damn so thats like a 45-50% dps decrease
hard holly
Keep in mind, there is an upgrade that increases damage to far-away foes by 150%
elfin pulsar
brutal
hard holly
So its just strictly inferior to that
Yeah
Ontop of Spear being nerfed
I dont mind the spear base damage nerf
It was a bit much anyway
pastel jolt
it needed nerfing
elfin pulsar
poor spear, it was lonely at the top
hard holly
But damn, Vicious Skewer went from "just needed to lose the 10% damage amp" to "why pick this?"
Spear special at this point is in a worse state than it was back when noone but me used it
pastel jolt
if you got vicious skewer early on it was basically a gg for the rest of the run
hard holly
I mean, thats hammer upgrades
The same is true for Perfect Shot, World Splitter, the rapidfire upgrade and deja vu upgrade
forest marsh
It's really a weird upgrade when taken in comparison to other boons that apply crit... You could run a crit build and spear special would be more effective than Vicious Skewer
hard holly
Also Twin Shot and Triple Shot
pastel jolt
i don’t know why people throw the dummy out of the pram so hard when anything gets nerfed
hard holly
I mean, there is nerfing
And then there is going a bit overboard
Looking at the damage
native swallow
If you take a heroic boon does it take the poms from the original boon or are they lost?
mint leaf
throw the... pram...?
forest marsh
QBIONATER they are transfered
native swallow
ah okay awesome thanks!
pastel jolt
so your perfect setup can’t carry you through the game in four minutes flat any more. wah.
hard holly
And while Spear special builds needed a nerf
It didnt need a 75% nerf
Again, difference between it not being broken
And it being outright bad
Its now on the level of shield special builds
mint leaf
That makes me sad because I loved spear. I might have to make rail my main instead this update.
Or shield.
elfin pulsar
spear is still fine outside the special build
just demolished my second run of the patch at heat 25 with it
pastel jolt
honestly, vicious skewer build was boring
hard holly
Actually was spear pre-patch 25 on either hit or 30 on either hit
I cant remember
I heavily disagree
I loved the build since I started playing Hades
pastel jolt
wow, i press the Y button twice and the thing i’m looking at dies instantly
hard holly
And I never stopped loving it
elfin pulsar
it was a very satisfying double tap, I liked it
mint leaf
It feels clunky to me
hard holly
And there were a lot of fun things to do
Lining up the return to hit multiple enemies
And since deflect was basically always on it, that also played into it
pastel jolt
unovven, if i argue this point any further with you it’s going to start getting snippy, so i’m going to not do that
mint leaf
? all he's doing is talking about why he likes it
elfin pulsar
I dont think its really possible to convince people to change their preferences
hard holly
Right
elfin pulsar
at least for this sorta thing
mint leaf
or extrapolating, rather
lyric folio
You play on a controller sparrow? 😮
hard holly
And my point is that the build needed to be toned down, not utterly obliterated
pastel jolt
and i’ve tried stating my opinion and got shouted down for it
anyway, have fun with the update, y’all, i’m going to bed 👋 sadly beef is not a reason to take another day off work
hard holly
Mind you the ranged upgrade basically replaces it entirely
lyric folio
Sleep well!
hard holly
But its not as enjoyable without the big(tm) crit
mint leaf
Well, preferences for how the build played aside, I agree with toning builds down as opposed to more or less making them worthless.
elfin pulsar
there are other fat ranged attack stuff left
like the explosive shots for both spear and bow
not as satisfying though I agree
mint leaf
I hate most shield builds, but that doesn't them I want them to go away or be statistically ruined.
lyric folio
After killing final boss on 50 heat
I have a question
how do you break through shields
proud storm
you dont
lyric folio
I just keep hitting it and nothing gappens
proud storm
just cry
hard holly
I mean, did they change the explosive shot drastically?
elfin pulsar
thats what we are trying to figure out lol
spice turret
I think you get behind, is the solution
hard holly
Last time I played it it was a downgrade straight up
lyric folio
Then how do you deal damage to last boss?
proud storm
backstab him
fringe lake
Call him names
lyric folio
If you come close he aoe's
forest marsh
They made Explosive Shot do more damage but charge slower
hard holly
So its still a downgrade
proud storm
you can dash through his aoe
lyric folio
hmm
forest marsh
It does a lot of damage even at no charge time
Power Shots are impractical with it, though
lyric folio
I went for a zeus build so I ended up killing him with chain lightning alone
bcs I didn't wanna risk getting close
forest marsh
Oh, I don't remember what that one's called
hard holly
Idk
forest marsh
Exploding Launcher
I don't think they changed anything? I rarely use it, though. Would have to check the patch notes
Looks like they increased the attack speed of it
hard holly
Yeah that one
It always felt weird because you lose the return damage portion
So it always felt like your special got worse by picking it
elfin pulsar
so with my slug, should I take athenas epic attack (almost at hydra with no attack boon) or last stand (I have 4 DD still)
hardest choice I've ever seen
im thinking the DD heal because its less replacable
hard holly
Id say Athenas epic attack
forest marsh
I would've held out for an Artemis attack
hard holly
Thats the highest damage possible
forest marsh
But it's your run 
hard holly
Since its 80% vs 35% with a 15% chance to do 3* damage
elfin pulsar
yeah I definitely want a ares or artemis attack but athena is my next choice
forest marsh
It's incredibly easy to increase crit chance for Artemis with Hunter's Mark
hard holly
Pretty sure that works whether you have crit or not, though?
elfin pulsar
ill get last stand and see what happens
forest marsh
No, it's on crit attacks
elfin pulsar
posiedens wrath is hilariously strong now
forest marsh
It's basically a way of cascading crits on a target
elfin pulsar
with just the rare at level 3 it deals 396 damage
and if they are in a wall you can hit them 4 times in a second or so
hard holly
Oh you dont mean the marked condition
Right
Anyway, Id go for the guaranteed highest damage than the potentially highest damage
forest marsh
There's no right or wrong way, there's just the way you want to play
I was regularly pulling 600-1000+ crits with Heavy Slug on a run
hard holly
Fair enough
elfin pulsar
one of the options is going to have a mathematically higher DPS, its just the other boons around it that would change things
forest marsh
And honestly, Heavy Slug doesn't need much help doing damage
elfin pulsar
damn now I'm wondering if I should settle for the rare ares attack
feels bad knowing what it could be
games hard
hard holly
Also, swords inability to attack at range is hurting it more and more
I feel like if youve already got heavy slug
Ares is just not the greatest idea?
forest marsh
I agree, sword is hard in Elysium in particular
elfin pulsar
why not? stuff isnt dying in one hit anymore
hard holly
Yeah the shielded bastards really get in the way
elfin pulsar
it seems like a perfect match, the delay matches dooms delay
hard holly
Because if your base damage is already 80
Then getting Athenas 80% just does more damage with a lot of things
elfin pulsar
yeah an 80% athena would definitely be better
this 60 ares is basically a 80% damage increase
but with no deflect
lyric folio
Yea poseidon is easily the strongest wrath now
lyric folio
the damage is out of this world
elfin pulsar
yeah I dont think it scales with chaos
forest marsh
Just remember that almost everything is additive damage now, though. The same logic doesn't necessarily apply as before the update. Crit is I believe the only multiplicative damage now
elfin pulsar
i killed the giant medusa head and her rock from 80% and 100% hp respectively with one lv3 wrath
hard holly
Its definitely not just crit
elfin pulsar
actually I think the medusa had just lost her armor so around 50%
forest marsh
I haven't noticed anything else multiplying, but I'll look closer
forest marsh
Wow, you got a sword win! You're better than myself, clearly ha ha
hard holly
If its good, thats neat too
forest marsh
I attempted a few, no success
lyric folio
I got mino to half on 80, but then I realised it might be smarter to start low
so I tried 50 and 1shotted it
But goodness, it's gorgeous
hard holly
Its, hm
lyric folio
and feels so fresh
hard holly
Interesting
hard holly
I cant even get past Elysium reliably on 10 heat
I might be rusty tho
Gah
Epic Artemis Special boon
frosty pier
I think some aoe attacks a bit too wide but ehhh
hard holly
I dont know if its good enough
20% chance to crit is alright
But 45% damage up is hella low
Ill try I guess
raven lintel
i've found that crit is much more desirable and powerful with the changes to percent damage
frosty pier
The other thing... Is it just me but weapon-lads lack that satifying crunch death sound?
hard holly
Its uh
Actually good?
Like it has a bit of a long after-cast
And per throw damage is fairly low
But you can just spam it
And its pretty safe
forest marsh
Not losing your weapon is always a plus
elfin pulsar
have the asphodel fireballs always been deflectable?
forest marsh
Yup
elfin pulsar
sweet
forest marsh
Every projectile in the game is deflectable
elfin pulsar
wow athena boon rail special is hilarious on hydras big projectile spam
forest marsh
Some have difficult timing, like Theseus' spear, though
Ha ha right, Unbeard? Just turn them all around at once
elfin pulsar
seems like the deflect is very generous now, I don't think the damage had even landed yet and it deflected them
hard holly
Your main weapon is kinda whatever
forest marsh
Yeah, I think the range of deflect on AR Special is a bit too generous at the moment
elfin pulsar
i've managed to avoid getting a single attack boon up until now but the slug is kinda enough
elfin pulsar
alright posieden wrath just killed 3 full health hydra heads, very nice
mint leaf
Wow.
elfin pulsar
its a rare at level 3
elfin pulsar
my first run I did was heat 0 with it and it was stupidly broken
with mirage shield its actually really nice too
hard holly
What does it do?
elfin pulsar
no idea if its any good when damage is high
forest marsh
Giant explosion when you catch your shield throw
And I mean giant
But it's localized on you, which is why I'm uncertain about it
hard holly
Does it do a good amount of damage?
elfin pulsar
does fat damage and gets full benefits from special boons
forest marsh
To be determined, I literally just started the run
hard holly
Because otherwise its a bit hard to justify it since its, yknow
Shield Special
Although
You could just fire it into a wall, right?
elfin pulsar
you can just throw the shield into walls yuppp
forest marsh
Yeah, I'm learning to just point-blank stuff
The range is honestly absurd on the explosion
forest marsh
I'm trying it on 60 
and with a keepsake that I forgot to change out, so we'll see how this goes
hard holly
I might be able to get the crit chance on reflect thing
forest marsh
That's the best Trial, Owen
forest marsh
300% damage, max HP and number of enemies
forest marsh
You can only get the duo from Artemis, I believe
elfin pulsar
damn, my second hammer options are triple bomb, explosive fire, and piercing fire
nothing stupid with the slug
forest marsh
Explosive or Piercing are both fun
wintry swan
Hey anyone notice that they had to reset their darkness and heat in order to get them to work or is that just me?
forest marsh
Might be due to the changes they made in both the Mirror and Pact
hard holly
No hunters mark either
forest marsh
I'm constantly messing with them both, so not sure if I had issues at the start
hard holly
Only Hidebreaker
This was a total whiff
Hm
Heart or Aphrodite?
If I get a weak effect Ill have 2 curses
Which should trigger that one mirror trait
forest marsh
Depends how much HP you already have
hard holly
But it can only be on attack
forest marsh
I'd probably go for the boon
forest marsh
They've changed so much, it's good to just try nutty combos
elfin pulsar
havent got it once yet
forest marsh
MG is still easier, though
elfin pulsar
have you seen the new keepsake, wightfyre?
forest marsh
Yup
elfin pulsar
idk what it scales up to but it seems kinda neat
forest marsh
0.5
elfin pulsar
oh yeah thats what I was hoping for
hard holly
We actually had that baseline for like, 1 patch?
Ridiculous on low heat
Kinda pointless on high heat
spice turret
So, has anybody tried broken shackle in Elysium?
There seems to be a lot of stuff to drop, specifically on the bosses
Like, stuff that comes back.
forest marsh
I'm not sure what that's in reference to, Owen?
elfin pulsar
i've seen the little bubble around zag but i've definitely gotten multi-hit a lot
especially by laser guys when I'm spacing out
forest marsh
Oh, the invuln after hit as a regular ability, yeah, I understand now. It still exists for "massive damage"
hard holly
Yeah
Now its limited
But it used to always be there
Any smallest amount of damage
vale badger
whoops caps
so is it just me or are the murderfuries attacks complete nonsense, they hit litterally instantly as far as I can tell like I get stunned from offscreen half the time
elfin pulsar
you'll get used to her delay after a while, when shes just kinda standing there you can spam dash and it'll miss
vale badger
my issue is theres no discernable delay to get used to in the first placve?
Ive litterally yet to see a single telegraph I could recognise
fought her like 5x
elfin pulsar
like every boss in the game there is a reliable gap between each of their attacks
they dont just spam non-stop
idk if there is a real tell but I tell by her not having attacked in a couple seconds
vale badger
i mean yeah spamming dash usually works but it Feels Bad TM
hard holly
Ok so
After losing to the minotaur with the explosive launcher upgrade
Its way better than it used to be
And its actually decent up until the Hydra
vale badger
Launcher is nutty tbh
hard holly
But it needs less recovery and a little more damage
elfin pulsar
did they buff it this patch?
vale badger
coupld dmg upgrrades and the tripple launch and you're laughing through most fights
though im glad they nerfed the range a little at least you no longer get to spam it offscreen
wispy mirage
how do you guys deal with theseus?
proud storm
hit and dash
vale badger
so far I dont :']
hard holly
Attack speed is faster
Oh not that one
The Hammer upgrade explosive launcher
For Spear
vale badger
oooh
wait
I mean yeah thats pretty decent too though I def hate the damage scaling on specials
wispy mirage
tryed 2 times and only got him to about 25% after first defeating the minotaur, ranged kind of worked better than meele
hard holly
Also honestly
Can we just remove Wrath from the first boon table
I dont think Ive ever picked a wrath first
Just because you cant even use it until asphodel
forest marsh
So much of it depends on your build. Killing one too early can make the second phase harder. The last couple I had success bringing them both down roughly evenly so the perma-rage was limited
I just used Wrath in a Tartarus room 😛
Sure, it is near the end of Tartarus, but whatever
vale badger
I cant say D*ck?
forest marsh
Evidently not
hard holly
Right my point is
You never pick Wrath on the first selection
And it just creates scenarios where the first selection is bad
vale badger
I never pick wrath at all if I can get anything else remotely usefull tbh
forest marsh
And I like Aphro Wrath, especially since I'm on a Heat run
So I had no qualms securing an Epic one right away
grand patrol
lyt1cal- no, you can't say that, we have a bot that keeps the language clean around here. thanks!
vale badger
@grand patrol yeah I notivced myB
wispy mirage
do you use other keepsakes than the pierced butterfly, it just seems to be flat out better than most. for comparrison one can have 130% dmg on high range or get about 40% flat dmg increases if one gets through the first two levels okish#
elfin pulsar
alright just beat these guys pretty easy on 30, really not looking forward to them doing damage
forest marsh
I'll use PB on no heat sometimes
On runs though I like to try to guarantee the boons I'm going for as much as possible
wispy mirage
yeah good point i only played with heat for the statues
elfin pulsar
i like the collar myself, lets you take an extra hit or two on high damage and goes well with death defiance
tho I never start with it, dont see the point
vale badger
idk about the collar
HP doent tend to help me much bc when I start taking dng I've usually lost too much control in the fight for it to matter at higher heat
wispy mirage
+1 most of the time i take 0 or waaay to much dmg
and hp dosent help kill faster. faster killtime means less dmg taken
hard holly
Infinite chamber kinda feels bad on its own
wispy mirage
infinte chamber + faster attack speed😫
forest marsh
Not having to reload is really nice, honestly
spice turret
So... I seem to have gotten stuck.
Anybody know how to find enemies that have basically flown off map?
Like, I have mirage flight, and I still can't seem to find it
turbid needle
hmm...
spice turret
Like, it literally seems to have gone out of bounds of the map
turbid needle
how does triple arrow + explosive arrow should interact with each other ?
spice turret
I mean, I've scorched myself down to 5 hp trying to search the lava, but I'd still prefer to push on.
If there's a solution
frosty pier
hmmm does it me or spear dudes need to chill?
raven lintel
i've had that happen once jibb
and i had to abandon the run
no fix for it afaik 😦
frosty pier
That he does
turbid needle
I like how varied all the new enemies are, but I think shield guys and cells are really annoying
wispy mirage
athena has the worst revange hate the imortality
frosty pier
Cells are fine if they remove armor from them
wispy mirage
shield guy are defently the strongest of the weapon guys
hard holly
It is
I guess my big problem with the AR
Is that depending on what hammer you get
You either need Zeus
Or not Zeus
And you cant tell in advance
frosty pier
That depends on a weapon I think
vale badger
I havnt even faced the new enemies yet but on the topic; does anyone else feel like Louts are just too bloody strong?
turbid needle
Depends on my weapon and boons
spice turret
They're pretty nasty, but the kind of nasty where you can survive them.
turbid needle
Most of the time I have no issues with them
lyric folio
@spice turret report it with f10
vale badger
HP DMG and atk animations if I face armoured louts without something OP in my own build I usually just get slaughtered
like not in an unfair way but like they're just so much more of a force to be dealt with than any other regular enemy type
spice turret
@lyric folio I did do that, yes.
Yeah, the thing about louts is... some builds mean I feel safe fighting a massive horde of numbskulls. Some builds, I'm fine against the big beefy boys (whose names I forget)
Almost never do I feel safe against a massive horde of louts
elfin pulsar
they are the main thing keeping me from using whipped frenzy
they are probably the scariest enemy in tartarus
hard holly
Im starting to think you cant get heavy slug and infinite chamber
native ether
you can, ive done it
elfin pulsar
how does it work?
native ether
it truly shines with it because since the slug has no actual attack speed nerf (like the shotgun) you can quite literally spam click slugs
elfin pulsar
does it shoot as fast as the regular shots?
elfin pulsar
thats hilarious, so its just an 8x damage multiplier
frosty pier
slug daddy dream is real then
elfin pulsar
thats what i was hoping for
native ether
yeah literally
ive only gotten that combo 1 time
but man it was fun
stack it with Artemis + Marked for max efficiency
super damage
elfin pulsar
I tried to get it on my second run of the patch and sadly ended up with explosive shells instead, still won but it was disappointing
vale badger
@spice turret Honestly if its a mono-lout horde I at least know what to do; run like a coward lol, they mess with me more in that the one or two louts in the mixed bunch are 10x more likely to nail me for massive dmg if I dont keep an eagle eye on their exact position while working through the encounter
elfin pulsar
very glad to see its a real thing
native ether
from what i can tell it doesnt actually limit any hammer upgrades based on your previous one
turbid needle
I got Adamant Rail's flurry fire and the explosive shot last run, and I really liked it
native ether
it just draws 3 random ones
elfin pulsar
there are going to be some seriously broken combos then
like, floor 4 is trivial combos
native ether
indeed there are
elfin pulsar
i dont see how you could lose a run with that
native ether
these combos are kinda needed though
Elysium is very difficult if you get a late hammer
i once got a hammer like halfway through. It hurt
native ether
its random
quaint gale
yeah, I've had runs before with zero hammers
native ether
i think wightfyre once got it literally right before theseus? :p
forest marsh
When the game offers you a Chaos Gate, an Infernal Gate, and a Hammer as your exit choices 
Yup
Right before Theseus
dull berry
Hammer
elfin pulsar
its always gotta be the hammer right
vale badger
wait I never get my hammer early and you thought it was guaranteed, im green af rn mate @elfin pulsar
elfin pulsar
that seems to be the moral of this game
native ether
hammers are by far the most important upgrades
dull berry
Agreed
elfin pulsar
i meant early in elyseium, i've had plenty of runs with no hammers before it
quaint gale
now with potential double hammers...woof
elfin pulsar
but i've gotten a hammer in room 1 and 2 only of elysium so far
native ether
the only thing that seems guaranteed is you get a hammer in both Tartarus and Elysium. If you dont take the Tartarus hammer I think itll try and put it in Asphodel
vale badger
hmmkay I'll have to get there myself to test my luck then :p
native ether
ive at least always gotten one in the shop right before meg
forest marsh
But I've definitely done it before
dull berry
I think you can go all of Tartarus without a God boon
native ether
it feels like its guaranteed to spawn in the shop if it doesnt spawn anywhere else
dull berry
I've tried to do that
vale badger
Im p sure ive never reached hydra without a hammer but its never felt like a given more of a statistical thing
elfin pulsar
like right now I don't have a hammer and lost 2 DDs already by the end of meg fight
feels bad
wispy mirage
dude hammer is by far one of the best upgrades but 2 dd to meg?
elfin pulsar
this new dash seems to go in random directions sometimes, it seems like it might have something to do with aim assist
i lost one DD to some random skull room and one to meg of all people, yes
not proud of myself rn
forest marsh
I haven't had directional issues with dash myself... Are you on gamepad?
wispy mirage
na one gets better with time
elfin pulsar
nope, m+kb
vale badger
on the subject of hammers though; super glad they made the bow a little more playable baseline, I might actually use it without the instant shot upgrade someday
forest marsh
I use gamepad, so I can't speak to KBM experiences
elfin pulsar
yeah its just sad because I've had a few perfect or near perfect meg fights now
and its only been with spear i've had this issue, no problem with gun
wispy mirage
lol spear is by far my best weapon i can perfect ontil hydra with it gun is good too, but bow is the worsz
forest marsh
Oh man, I've done Heavy Slug + Crit runs before, but this is my first with Hunter's Dash in the mix. It just keeps getting better
elfin pulsar
nasty
forest marsh
You're already dashing to cancel the reload animation, so it's a natural fit
gusty nexus
Sword does feel a lot better now.
quaint gale
wispy mirage
yeah sword is playable now
quaint gale
that's a sticky fight
wispy mirage
n1
wintry swan
Stupid question
vale badger
I wish I recognised all those Icons so I knew what ur build was like lol
forest marsh
That's my biggest complaint about the new Boon UI - lack of quick readability
wintry swan
Are the statues for beating on certain amounts of heat implemented yet? If so where are they?
quaint gale
well, primarily it was rapid shot + triple shot + deflect + duo to crit on deflect
the rest was bonus
vale badger
wait you didnt find sword playable before? @wispy mirage
forest marsh
They are implemented, they live in Skelly's room at the bottom corner
Covered with sheets
wintry swan
Thank you, I could not find them
vale badger
they sure af did not
forest marsh
I'm not sure they got easier, with the exception of Alecto and Murderboat
quaint gale
you really need a killer pair of hammers now
forest marsh
Those definitely are easier
elfin pulsar
so did hydra and wave guys in general
forest marsh
If they feel easier it's probably 'cause you've gotten better
vale badger
Murderboat OP BibleThump
elfin pulsar
idk, the nerf to wave speed seems like its not just me
same with alectos rage speed
forest marsh
Oh right, there's that too (re: wave speed nerf)
elfin pulsar
but yeah I'm probably overestimating the amount of changes
median ridge
empowering nova feels so much better now, especially with the sword special as fast as it is now
not as broken and requires a lot more mixing up of combos
raven lintel
anyone else think that athena dash is just off the chain now?
forest marsh
It's very good
median ridge
oh it's so good
raven lintel
i feel like it is sooooooooo good
median ridge
i used to never ever pick it because it felt bad to use
quaint gale
is it?
hard holly
Yeesh, that was close
quaint gale
guess I gotta check it out again
vale badger
Athena dash is much less clunky with the new base def give it another shot IMO @median ridge
hard holly
But the new version is ludicrously good
median ridge
yeah i just did a run now with athena's dash
vale badger
ooh lol you started talking about it myB
median ridge
it's very fun
elfin pulsar
yee I love it now too
being able to deflect stuff on reaction with a dash was just super fun
quaint gale
I love the sword's evolution throughout early access from terrible to competitive
what a ride it's been on
forest marsh
Honestly all weapons have had a real rollercoaster
vale badger
they're getting better thats for sure
median ridge
so far i've explored elysium with the sword and the shield. looking forward to seeing what the others can do
turbid needle
What would y'all say is the most challenging release of Hades so far?
I feel like it might be harder now than ever, but Idk. The Murder Death Kill update was a huge spike in difficulty because it didn't add very many boons
forest marsh
What do you mean by challenging release? For the players? Or for SG? Either way, probably this one
vale badger
Shield esp feels so much less of a liability now with all the buffs to charge, though no amout of buffs will stop me from missing half my melee hits on that thing
spice turret
Oooh boy, have you guys tried explosive return on the shield?
quaint gale
yeah, I can never gel with the shield
spice turret
I guarantee you that's why we lost assault flight
forest marsh
Yeah, I just ran a 60 run with it. It was fun, but I'm not super strong to begin with on Shield
spice turret
That perk is probably OP, if my experience here is anything to go by
hard holly
I mean we lost assault flight because it was a useless upgrade tbh
spice turret
Honestly... I liked assault flight
elfin pulsar
assault flight was my first 60 heat win
with the zeus boon yeugh
sad to see it go but explosion is a lot more fun honestly
vale badger
what did assault flight do again?
vale badger
oooh
hard holly
And it was slightly faster
Basically, turned Shield special into a worse Spear Special
Or Bow attack
quaint gale
I feel like it primarily existed to get around the shield bouncing off into space and never coming back
elfin pulsar
it was very fast compared to the spear special, probably hit twice as often or so
well, range dependent
less damage but great boon synergy
hard holly
Eh
It really wasnt
Thats the thing
It was slower on max range
And a little faster on very close range
forest marsh
If people enjoyed it I don't see the point in trying to tear it down
hard holly
Right, fair
Im not saying youre not allowed to enjoy it
Just that it was a really bad upgrade
elfin pulsar
i've got no problem personally with people talking about the power level of stuff I like
hard holly
And that that is probably why it was removed
elfin pulsar
always happy to hear other opinions
vale badger
idk to me the shield special seems to just have one issue; it doesnt have any base dmg
elfin pulsar
i've always mashed face with assault flight but maybe I would have done just as well with a good spear special
spice turret
Fair
hard holly
Damn it chaos
Im forced to use spear special now
It was just made baseline
I think?
No wait, it was first put into trick toss, then made baseline
Or something
Oh this is gonna be fun
Special-only meg fight
Ahahaha
Kill me
elfin pulsar
hope you got a nice one
elfin pulsar
rip
so does zeus boon only hit once per enemy with the bow special?
this is not working how I expected
forest marsh
Yeah, that's how it works currently
It's a bit disappointing, but the alternative would be extremely overpowered
elfin pulsar
large bummer
forest marsh
'cause you'd be able to dump all 10 shots or whatever it is into one enemy and do 10 lightning strikes
elfin pulsar
yeah it'd be 8x39 damage with the epic boon
maybe a little much
but dio is similar I feel
guess you cant keep applying his tho
hard holly
Without a doubt
The slowest Meg Fight I ever had
6 minutes
6 bloody minutes
Why shield special so useless
mental idol
civic wraith
i just had a really busted one
elfin pulsar
im gonna guess heavy slug + infinite chamber takes the cake
but totally unreliable to get it
forest marsh
Ha ha I had a Chaos boon choice with similar unwanted outcomes. Just a few chambers before Fury (ended up being Tisiphone) and my choices were damage on attacking, damage on attacking, or no Obol gain. I'm running Heavy Slug AR, so definitely not skipping attack. Guess I'll enjoy this extra Darkness instead of extra damage...
hard holly
Im not sure its possible
elfin pulsar
somebody in this channel just had it, talked about it
forest marsh
Pear said that they've done it
hard holly
Ah
civic wraith
athena cast and melee lvl 2 zeus dash, zeus special level 2, art wrath, lots of other stuff
civic wraith
i got double strike chance for lightning and double lightning sparks
raven lintel
casual 2126 crit
civic wraith
and double hit dash
raven lintel
preeeeeeeetty good
forest marsh
Nice
elfin pulsar
2126 with what? i got a 1100 or so today and it was the highest i've gotten
elfin pulsar
alright sounds gross
raven lintel
the damage is bonkers though explosive shot is a bit too slow for me
turbid needle
oh god...
turbid needle
Spread Fire + Dire Misfortune + Ares Attack + Curse of Longing + Aphro Dash
raven lintel
this run is nuts
forest marsh
That's a good combo
hard holly
Come on Artemis
I wanted your dash boon
Why do you give me a special boon on Shield
Although
Exit Wound might not be bad on Theseus
elfin pulsar
freshly buffed too right?
forest marsh
Nice when it lines up that I actually need a healing Trove and then only lose 1 HP doing the challenge. Lucky
elfin pulsar
healing trove? is that a key one?
forest marsh
Yeah. Cost me 2 keys, 125 max HP restored. I think I got 117 out of it
spice turret
Okay, just had the most tilting thing happen.
elfin pulsar
oh neat, yeah i've never done one of those
elfin pulsar
and goddamn my choice is between a hammer and a zeus+pos room, on rail with no attack boon yet
spice turret
Fought Alecto, using shield. Had knockback on special
hard holly
Aw
spice turret
Repeatedly knocked the louts into position to hit me despite the fact that I was dashing
hard holly
This doesnt stack multiplicatively
spice turret
Died
forest marsh
No, it doesn't
spice turret
My fault? Technically. Feels good? No
forest marsh
I'm still pretty sure only crit is Multiplicative now
I checked Boiling Blood and it is additive
hard holly
Well
I remembered what I thought was multiplicative
The Perfect shot hammer upgrade
forest marsh
I could have misread the damage numbers ¯_(ツ)_/¯
elfin pulsar
alright theres the perfect on meg
that triple special hammer for the rail is insane
hard holly
Nooo
My damage crashed
And nah
What made me notice it was the fact that crit went 4-digits when if it were multiplicative, they couldnt
I didnt take any damage
So it should have saved?
hard holly
It did
quaint gale
I think I found one of my favorite sword combos in this run
instant nova + empowering nova + deadly flourish + hunter's mark
north hawk
Does the bomb shield feel a little powerful to anyone else?
quaint gale
instant nova's short delay allows an attack swipe between novas
so you one-two-one-two them into crit hell
pearl willow
Got Heavy Slug + 215% dash attack damage + poseidon attack (the knockback is surprisingly super weak) for 370 something damage with each dash shot presently, usually dont like the rail much but this is amusing
elfin pulsar
oh damn, tying with thanatos is still a win
thats real nice of him
took like 100 damage getting this centaur heart but uhhh worth it
forest marsh
Ugh, big mood there
I dread Thanatos rooms on runs unless my build is rock solid already
elfin pulsar
its kinda weird that the room where somebody is helping you is actively harder than the rest
forest marsh
It really depends on the RNG of what spawns
If you get unlucky and it's a bunch of tanky Elites, then 
On the flipside sometimes it's easy enemies, though
It really punishes low DPS builds though
hard holly
Even with the awful 6 minute meg fight
Still only 3 minutes over my best
Exit Wounds is legit on Theseus
Especially with the quick drop boon
elfin pulsar
how much damage does it do now?
pearl willow
i take it back, i still dont like the rail. heavy slug in elysium is a death sentence with all those tiny reload locks.
hard holly
Mine was epic
Its 100 for common
200 for rare
300 for epic
400 for heroic (?)
On a related sidenote
The new Minotaur rush upgrade is amazing
Its a little hard to tell the timing
But it does a lot of damage and is superfun
frosty pier
minotaur rush is good enough to tolerate at least half of that power couple at the end of our road.
And timing is really same with the bow...i think?
OW YES THERE IS WALLS IN LAVA TOWN NOW
undone bone
@hard holly Hey for what it's worth re: your Minotaur Rush feedback, I can confirm the sound is there, same one for the bow Perfect Shot timing. It may be harder to hear beneath the louder charge sound.
hard holly
Thats possible
But I legitimately heard nothing, and Ive got relatively good hearing
In any case, Id perhaps make it a bit louder or the charge sound a bit quieter?
undone bone
No worries, 'tree falls in the forest' thing. If it can't be heard, then it's not working.
frosty pier
actually amazing
hard holly
I also had the dash attack upgrade which was kinda ... weird?
Im not sure what to think of it
upbeat junco
Hey guys, trying out a rail gun run, just picked up hammer and got the option to choose explosive fire, is it any good?
i have zeus attack with rail as well
either explosive fire or spread fire
frosty pier
Is your pc good?
upbeat junco
yea
frosty pier
Explosive it is
upbeat junco
ill give it a go then
bold salmon
Lol, yea. Your pc is good until you get Clustbomb and Zeus/Pos Duo boon with legendary Zeus boon 😂
frosty pier
Actually i noticed that game loses frames like crazy if you stack something like explosive fire with athena's wrath