Target small, low health enemies, ignore anything in his AoE
#h1-builds-and-combat
lost rose
wind vortex
Yeah hard to be better at killing than death itself
atomic panther
Counterpoint: If you have Poseidon buffs, get enemies out of his aoe
median ridge
poswordon is best strat
atomic panther
Poswordon askfjadhfiashuefioknadad
median ridge
especially with the daedalus upgrade that makes you crit after doing a special
zinc quest
Have yall tried using the Poseidon on rail gun where you can push enemies into your special mortars?
plucky oxide
I like to use Athena dash + special with mortars. Enemies like to come to you, so why not use some extra invulnerability to dance around in your aoe's of death. Poseidon is also great fun as well.
zinc quest
What do you guys find most effective on rail?
atomic panther
Artemis special
plucky oxide
Artemis crit + shotgun hammer
unkempt pagoda
^ this is the god build
atomic panther
Zeus attack is ridiculous on Rail, and the special is worth learning to use (on keyboard and mouse, apparently it's awful on the controller)
turbid needle
The special rarely works well for me on controller, personally. It rarely aims where I intend, altho I feel like it's been better since the last major update.
marble chasm
Question: When Hades appears before a run and has his little blurb then says something like "OAF", or "BRAT" does that actually affect the gameplay? or is that just groundwork for future content?
lost rose
It doesn't affect gameplay, it's just narrative content
forest marsh
Nope, doesn't affect the run. They're just remembrances, little bits of lore that reflect Zagreus' backstory
marble chasm
Cool thanks. I was thinking maybe they would be random modifiers to the run later on or something 😃
light nova
@errant narwhal yep i mean follow the mouse
light nova
I've just got killed by Meg and then my rocket from rail killed her that gave me two animations of our deathes in a row 😂
median ridge
lmaoooo you both walk into the house of hades at the same time, trying not to look at each other while hypnos laughs at you
light nova
I thought she will be home, but nope, it counts like i died alone з:
brisk breach
That would be a really neat little easter egg
median ridge
it would. that unique situation definitely deserves special dialogue.
radiant night
Is it normal to run into medusa and the murderboat in one run,,?
median ridge
yup fairly normal depending on which chambers you pick
radiant night
Ohh, okay, I thought it was only possible to get one in one run
atomic panther
...
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/561389249698463754/unknown.png
I guess I just hadn't died to them before
pure fox
words of wisdom 🙏
lost rose
i think i should get a reward for dying at least once to each type of enemy
forest marsh
Future cheevo 
Diverse Deaths
Addition to Codex? Number killed is already there, but not killed by counter
trim ingot
what does hypnos say if you die in lava
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/561391919759097856/unknown.png
I play for first time in a week and I get a royal welcome. I've missed you, World Splitter crit build
forest marsh
I know I've gotten that one, but I can't recall the dialog
atomic panther
Got a crit backstab for 762 without boiling blood
pearl willow
man i go see charon with 118g just looking for a pom and i get a hammer/boon/heart for sale but i cant count the number of times ive been loaded with cash and he didn't offer anything other than food/darkness/heart
lost rose
@trim ingot "Ooh, ow, so you got burned down to a crisp out there, standing in lava, right? I know you've got your burning feet and all, but standing in lava, why, I'm not so sure that's a good idea!"
trim ingot
helpful as always
lost rose
there's different ones for different lava
forest marsh
I really hope they add in a journal type aspect to the codex, where you can have a record of the unique dialog since you only get them once
trim ingot
honestly what is the goofiest way to die that hypnos will comment on
chaos boons can't kill you
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/561393695975407624/unknown.png
Did someone say more damage
forest marsh
Seems low for Attack?
atomic panther
It does, especially since I got +53% for the last one
forest marsh
Probably right near the very bottom of the Epic +% range
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/561394183236091904/unknown.png
I have been preparing for this moment my whole life
forest marsh
Eh? Oh, you mean telling?
atomic panther
trim ingot
it could be interesting if than offers you a special reward and not just a centaur heart
i'm thinking like, a one time damage thing you can activate
forest marsh
Interesting? Yes. OP? Probably?
trim ingot
one use superuser again
i mean the bosses get periodic invulnerability so you can't knock off more than a quarter of their health at once
lost rose
final juniper
I always do terribly with the rail gun, anyone have any tips, or good combos?
forest marsh
Abuse special if using mouse. If on gamepad... good luck
For real though, Zeus or Dio is good on attack
final juniper
Im mouse and keyboard, so could do that. Maybe ill try to get all special buffs this run
forest marsh
Special is great 'cause it doesn't really interrupt your normal combat process, and with mouse you can easily lead your shots
It's much more difficult on gamepad, but that's not an issue for you
atomic panther
Special is good bc big number make me happy
wind vortex
Yeah Dionysus attack with rail gun is nuts
pearl willow
gah, wiped on hydra at like 2% lol, man i take so many stupid extra hits cause i get impatient.
atomic panther
Literally the only times I've failed an Erebus challenge room have been because of the brimstones
forest marsh
Brimming with rage at these failures
atomic panther
6 157 damage casts is a plan
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/561411939524411395/unknown.png
I literally don't know which to pick here
I went with the cast base damage
Oh thank the gods it's Meg
Died to a skullcrusher F
lost rose
F
median ridge
i had one run with two different trial of the gods rooms in it, as well as a ton of other boons. and i discovered that if you get too many boons they will go off the screen 😂
light nova
Damn u spoiled it 😄 i tried to do the same when i have a lot of boons
hushed bramble
honestly, brimstone is the most annoying enemy to face, especially if it has super armour. it doesnt do much damage if you move nonstop, but damn if a room full doesnt nick you nonstop if you cant oneshot them all
mystic hawk
I was just thinking that man lmao
pearl willow
boo. erebus life rewards do not appear to be affected by ocean's bounty 😦
atomic panther
That's probably a bug, then. Report that with F10 if you still can
pearl willow
Yeah, I did
median ridge
so i noticed an interesting bug
when i’m fighting tisiphone, and my casts are on the floor, they can become inaccessible when she shrinks the room
errant narwhal
please report that with F10!
median ridge
i tried pressing f10 and it didn’t do anything so. idk what you mean
forest marsh
To be clear, you pressed F10 while in the game?
median ridge
yup
forest marsh
Are you on a laptop where you have to press a Function key to enable the F keys?
median ridge
aaaaah that might be the issue
i’m already far past that part of the run so idk if my bug report will really help. it’s not there anymore
forest marsh
Even if you aren't at the specific spot, the report itself is still helpful as long as you describe the issue
median ridge
thanks!
forest marsh
Happy to help
vivid thunder
how are you guys faring with the bow?
forest marsh
Quite well, it's my preferred weapon
vivid thunder
i feel like i can never finish a run without getting the rapid fire boon from that
forest marsh
My only real suggestion for bow is to get used to the dash attack-power shot mechanic and timing
Never walk anywhere during combat with the bow, always dash attack, even if you can't pull off the power shot (though you should still try)
vivid thunder
ohhh thanks for the suggestion
forest marsh
If you weren't aware, the dash attack on the bow is that it charges faster
It's not too hard to get into a rhythm of dash attack-power shotting
vivid thunder
yeah the dash attack doesnt seem to have charge
forest marsh
It still has a charge, it's just faster than the regular charge time
forest marsh
If you're still having trouble, I would suggest just looking up some video or watch a stream of someone playing with bow for a visual example of how to do it effectively
vivid thunder
without rapid fire boon, i always have trouble handling the hydra heads
forest marsh
I personally avoid rapid shot 'cause I don't like losing out on my power shot bonus
Not saying it isn't good, it's just not how I play
Triple Shot or Perfect Shot are my go-to hammer upgrades
vivid thunder
haha i guess it really depends on playstyles
forest marsh
Absolutely
vivid thunder
but i'll try other upgrades next time
forest marsh
Good luck!
light nova
Did some one here finished run with a sword having 90 heat? If you did, please tell me how 😩
What boons and trinket you used
Which daedalus upgrade
safe mesa
deadly reversal is so busted
i had deflect on the spear special and i was just spamming that for the entire run
jade estuary
is twin shot or perefect shot better?
turbid needle
Twin Shot by far, imo
trim ingot
absolute blender
tough echo
Requesting tips for 120 heat run.
turbid needle
git gud
https://youtu.be/GT3cpJ2lNt4
This guy pulled off 180 heat on The Good Times. I reckon a 120 heat run could be completed very similarly, altho you'll more than likely have to deal with Alecto or Tisephone. Plus the new Hydra heads
gilded sandal
@tough echo You should test out which pacts you dislike if youre going for a 120 run. Damage, health, and more enemies dont change the gameplan too much, so maybe turn those on and mix and match for every other pact. The only pact I'd suggest to avoid would be whipped frenzy since it changes everything a bit too much imo.
turbid needle
I honestly favor Whipped Frenzy over enemy health because bulky enemies make the game way too slow for me to find enjoyable, but Idk if that's better irt playing the metagame
tough echo
Good tips. Thanks~
calm ember
180 heat? what does that mean?
turbid needle
I think it means you've maxed out the pact of punishment
And that you are super single
calm ember
lol....okay
pearl willow
Would there be any reason to pick 'Cooling Chamber' (dash reloads two rounds) over 'Infinity Chamber' (never have to reload) with the rail? I can't think of anything.
forest marsh
If you have that choice, then there's no reason not to pick Infinity Chamber, honestly
safe mesa
also true
because the fire rate between infinity and regular is pretty close now, right?
pearl willow
I think they're from two separate updates - Cooling just appears to have been obviated by Infinity but was wondering if there was any use case for it still.
pearl willow
Can duo boons be offered by only one of the two gods? Or is there just a chance for them to not appear? I've got zeus/dio going and last time I spoke with Dio it was available (I didn't pick it) but I just got a Zeus boon in the next room and he's only offering me two boons, neither of which are the duo.
lost rose
There's a list of the duo boons and requirements for each on the wiki
Some boons can only be offered by one god, like the athena/artemis counter crit one
pearl willow
I'd have expected it could come from either, suppose not.
cunning raven
I don't know why can't I just write it in feedback section, so I'll leave it here. The Dash feels quite clunky, would be really nice if you could tune in the way it feels more smooth like in the RUINER game
lost rose
Check the pinned post in feedback for instructions on how to post there
cunning raven
Got it, thanks)
pastel jolt
10
tough tulip
wew, that's quite a darkness sink
tough tulip
did anybody get all tiers yet?
proud storm
i'm like halfway through
i havent even collected 20k darkness in my entire playthrough
tough tulip
only at about 14k myself
pastel jolt
i'm maxed on the rest of the mirror and i have three rerolls atm
forest marsh
The speedrunners have a modified save that has all the rerolls unlocked, but I haven't seen anyone that's gotten them all legitimately yet. It's... a lot of darkness
turbid needle
I'm on tier 5 and halfway to tier 6
I play on 70 heat to get good darkness, but I cant play with any weapon other than bow on that difficulty, so I don't get the weapon boost.
I trade in basically anything to the broker in exchange for 100 darkness
violet arch
what is tier in hades?
ember lotus
4000/10000 here grinding towards the next reroll level.
It seems like even on the rooms where you are guaranteed god boons the rotation of gods is only three at most. Sucks when you're trying cap off a build with the perfect boon (like an Ares cast setup) or even when you want a good attack boon that synergies with your weapon choice.
ocean vortex
night compass
using charon's keepsake i currently have 4 of the speedboosts active. 40% faster zagreus
pastel jolt
🐦 💨
errant narwhal
@light nova no evading the swear filter 
coarse hare
I know 10 heat is wimpy, but this is my first win with any heat at all, and turned out to be my fastest! Viscious Skewer + Artemis boons just melted everything, and Athena's Grey-Eyed Vengeance protected me from a ton of damage during Hydra. I even beat Thanatos in Asphodel! https://imgur.com/a/5zYhRmP
uncut ridge
Any new weapons yet?
hollow minnow
Any tips on how to survive with 60 Heat after unveiling the first statue?!?! It's so crazy I died in chamber THREE!!
lost rose
A lot of it is in how you allot your heat. Whipped Frenzy makes the game significantly harder, while convenience fee and the "enemies have a death defiance" one don't really
formal hill
rough field
I definitely just had the most excessive synergies in any run I've ever done
nova ice
Does anyone else feel like Zag or the game itself moves a tiny bit slower when Athena's wrath is up?
I can't tell if I'm imagining things or if the game is less responsive
safe mesa
maybe it drops frames because of the additional effects of the deflect?
tight jacinth
thanatos
thin jetty
i saved and quit mid-run when i last played hades a few days ago and just remembered i'll be returning to 66% crits on my shield special 👀 💦
my rng was just really really good this run
hollow minnow
Thanks @lost rose !
pearl willow
Sometimes I think the game is mocking me whenever I get a few darkness/key/etc rooms back to back to back and then suddenly I have to choose between chaos portal/hammer/god duel.
languid sapphire
Hey, am I missing something, or is lucky tooth literally just a worse version of the spiked collar in every way?
atomic panther
When enemies deal 72 damage in one hit, +60 health is not always as useful as another death defiance
regal nexus
It is almost always worse than collar, yes. Hydra only does 40-50 per hit with projectiles on max heat, and collar also increases how much your death defies restore by 12 so often ends up buying you several extra hits when tooth won't
median ridge
oh boy, another game freeze
fast shardBOT
Thanks for reporting a game freeze! The most common solution to this issue can be found in #hades-tech-fixes-old
median ridge
i love it when i have a great build and just as it facing the hydra the game decides to stop
atomic panther
Hydra slams do 66 on max heat.
median ridge
once i had the screen fre eze but then the game kept going. died then and it still didn’t stop
i can’t even use the task manager to end the game
lost rose
If you can use the F10 bug reporter still when the screen locks up like that it'd be worth reporting
alt+tab might still work
median ridge
unfortunately my computer is held hostage at this point but i can try
i wonder if my game still managed to save. i'm on a 29 run streak and don't want to lose that
oh fun the game forgot about that entire run
goodbye, deadly reversal sword run. it was fun knowing you 😢
regal nexus
Specified with projectiles though, should be avoiding the slams consistently by then. Going into the lava and absorbing a bit of damage there from time to time is usually a safer option than being close enough to tank any big hits
Also dang, hopefully your run didn't get stolen by the freeze.
pearl willow
Does the 'shotgun blast' hammer upgrade for the rail have some sort of built in damage increase? I only used it for the first time last night (spoiler: its super good imo) and it looked like my damage per individual projectile increased - but it was hard to tell with how many numbers were appearing and with some of them critting.
Also amusing is that Thanatos' damage is increased by Sweet Surrender. And Ares Wrath does not (presently) work with the Ares boon that gives the pull-in effect to blade rifts despite you being able to choose it with no other Blade Rift boons 😦
forest marsh
Nope, shotgun is base damage per projectile as far as I know
vivid thunder
kinda late to the party, but i finally finished a 60 heat run 
coarse hare
Congrats!
vivid thunder
didnt get a screenshot but it's a triple bomb adamant rail with a lucked out deadly reversal boon
atomic panther
Triple bomb is ultra valid
vivid thunder
so anytime i deflect from my wrath i dish out 300+ damage specials each!
so fun hahaha
finite grail
Man I have such a hard time with Alecta when she's got perma wrath in her last phase, especially using bow
coarse hare
Yeah bow attacks without rapid shot just seems really difficult for any bosses or even mini-bosses to me. Someone on here has said that dash attacks help the bow charge faster though.
I've tried focusing on bow special with dionysus and that worked pretty well, but not enough to take me all the way to beating hydra. I think bow's just not the weapon for me.
celest dagger
this was a run without any heat and I know it's kinda slow but these boons were so fun to play with my god
bow
aphrodite's weak with dash + ares' curse with special + duo refresh on curse if enemies are weak is amazing
I never see duo boons all that often, and when I do, I don't remember them being particularly spectacular/affect gameplay that much so this one, with a really clear effect, was super cool to see
toxic acorn
very weird question and the devs might be the only ones able to answer, but is it possible to get ambrosia in your first run of the game?
lost rose
I believe it is?
I'm trying to figure out which script that might be in without spoiling myself, haha
toxic acorn
lol
lost rose
I don't see anything off the bat that implies it would have any kind of conditional locking
lost rose
@toxic acorn I take it back, it looks like you need at least 2 runs
Sorry! Just found what I was looking for lol
toxic acorn
dang, does that mean it can show up in run 2 or in run 3?
lost rose
AllowSkipRequirements = true,
GameStateRequirements =
{
RequiredMinDepth = 3,
RequiredMinCompletedRuns = 2,
}```Run 3
toxic acorn
gotcha, thank you!
molten nacelle
https://i.imgur.com/Q1lYdFP.jpg
Oh my lawwwwwd this run was insane. I tend to avoid bow and adamant rail like the plague but figured just this once i'd try it out. When skull earing procced, as well as forcing crits with the duo deflect boon meant my cast or barrage crit for over 1k on hydra
If only there was a way to see casts and barrage shot used in comparison to standard left click fire
Critting 1k+ was something i most definitely did not expect to do today
icy edge
Does the rail's special proc orpheus' trinket?
molten nacelle
Also, does anyone know if gifting ambrosia to gods increases chance of a higher tier boon or if its just a codex thing?
lost rose
Just a codex thing
cerulean junco
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/471055304440676363/563351050787094528/Hades_00001.png after several failed attempts i finally did it
unkempt pagoda
Congrats!
cerulean junco
@unkempt pagoda thanks
plush blaze
Grats smuginc!
cerulean junco
Thanks
final juniper
well I made it to asphodel with only being offered 1 boon room (got one extra from charon)
Wasnt offered any either, just a lot of gold and darkness
and i think 3 upgrades now
green birch
Congrats!
median ridge
artemis on the sword is very good
icy edge
^Especially with the double hit dash upgrade
night compass
deadly reversal is a little broken i love it
open geode
open geode
basic strategy: get vicious skewer on spear special, athena on special, proceed to critt on the back attack and burst everything before it can dmg you
also: DODGE
native ether
sounds about right
open geode
i had it on less damage but i never got the right daedalus hammer or god boons and the death insurance is kinda counterproductive to a burst strat
median ridge
welp, tried my first run with heat (15) and ended up losing my 30+ streak. last boss was down to a single attack worth of hp and i beefed it first
the perils of a sword vs The Slam™
toxic acorn
do you have to do something special to see ||dunno his name, hypnos's brother||??? I've been playing semi-regularly for a few hours a week since the update dropped and still haven't.
forest marsh
Nah, it's just random chance as far as I know to be able to see Thanatos
toxic acorn
it feels weird that i've done probably 20+ runs since the update dropped and haven't seen him once
like i've got the fury sisters fights down already and they're both a bit harder than meg
i almost never see meg anymore either
lost rose
I'm assuming you have well over 23 runs lol
lost rose
daaaang
yeah his rng seems wonky. Some people go dozens of runs without seeing him and some see him pretty regularly and i have no idea what the deal is
hopefully they tweak it in the next update...they claim they increased the spawn chance in an early patch but
placid plinth
Does Pulverizing blow affect Bull Rush damage? Or only normal attack?
atomic panther
Only normal attack
lost rose
what i managed to do: 9 minute run?????
what i still have not managed to do: see thanatos again 😦
where is my little boy 😭
considering i've been averaging about 6 minutes in tartarus i have no idea how this happened
narrow girder
the best heat combo to get the 60 heat statue guys?
I've kinda spread it around and avoided limiting the darkness i can use, but what did you guys use?
lost rose
honestly i recommend maxing out your darkness limiter
even with it maxed out, you can keep all your dashes, which is the most important thing
I can't remember my exact setup but I took a little more enemy health and more damage per hit to keep from having to use tenebrous veil; then maxed out the darkness limiter, the store item cost, and the enemy death defiances
proud storm
me, who has gotten all the statues before the murder death kill update and probably wouldnt complete a 120 heat run today: haha git gud
errant narwhal
pour one out for people who are only gonna start trying 120 heat after the elysium update
grand patrol
plush blaze
proud storm
theyre gonna reset everyone's statues just to mess with people who already got them
grand patrol
add 3 more
placid plinth
People doing entire runs in ten minutes, and I just stall for two minutes in analysis paralysis on every two-exit room
thin jetty
yeah same
“dude what’s your usual strat” “........to not.........die.........”
it takes me a solid like 10 minutes just to beat meg
i had no luck aggro-ing her
and i can’t figure out how to stun lock her lol
safe mesa
i tried to start my first 120 heat run and my game immediately crashed
stable oyster
lost rose
look that sub 10 was because i was playing as quickly and recklessly as i could, i literally only wanted to see thanatos but then i got that absurd combo of stuff on the spear and i was like "wonder how quick i can go"
i was spamming a bunch of really fast careless runs so it was just kinda like "i take what i take and i'll deal with how bad it is later"
surviving was not the goal 😂
placid plinth
Hey, what's opinion on Bow special? Both Piercing and Relentless Barrage upgrades make it really amazing, but is non-upgraded version worth using? It feels weak
lost rose
could be if you get the duo (?) boon that makes ares curse damage stack
but that's too much to lean on to call it useful, really
lost rose
Hey has anybody else noticed that zeus cast in particular will actually hit thanatos and stick even tho he's impervious? 😂 because i'm pretty sure that's what just happened to me...
grand patrol
jhvghjfvhjfjh
grand patrol
"dont just go throwing those at people"
lost rose
where's that post that's like "best reactions to being stabbed - my sword now"?
pastel jolt
lost rose
yeah
he just keeps them
he has a collection
"you're not getting these back, this is what you get for shooting me"
pastel jolt
grand patrol
jgjhgkjgkgjk does this come with a recipt
finite grail
skelly is the bottom one
placid plinth
I don't like Rail very much but Cluster Bomb is actually very fun. Yes, uncontrollable and unpredictable, but the amount of chaos it creates is amazing
placid plinth
Though it's still too slow
Also, don't you love when you get Dio boon that gives health each time you pick up Ambrosia - and then don't see a single bottle for the entire run?
coarse hare
Yeah I like Cluster Bomb. It's actually somewhat predictable. The closer the target is, the closer the circles are clustered together. So I tried to dash close, release the cluster and then dash back.
placid plinth
Huh, this actually makes sense, I'll try to remember this next time I take it
forest marsh
@opaque merlin The boon description explicitly states that it affects the hearts
opaque merlin
@forest marsh I'll have to look at it more closely when I come across it again. I definitely read it as improving healing found
forest marsh
It specifies as being from rewards after clearing encounters
opaque merlin
Right, but it uses the healing heart icon, not the max heart icon
forest marsh
Barring one specific mechanism which you may or may not have encountered, there are no healing rewards from Encounters
I'm not sure if Ocean's Bounty affects both or just the Centaur Heart, though
I can't say I've ever tried that particular combo
opaque merlin
Ocean's Bounty pretty definitely affects both gold and healing from, say, Sisyphus, and from store-bought items (and Centaur Hearts)
forest marsh
Ocean's Bounty should not affect anything from a store (see patch notes here: https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688884011499520/544967057859674143 )
By definition Sisyphus isn't an Encounter, but that might be an exception
opaque merlin
It's possible that I'm wrong about my experience
calm sable
when you're one room away from the boss of Tartarus and the slow version of Scourge of the Furies starts playing
MMMMRRRRRR IMMINENT
lament lion
Anyone here have any tips on beating Alecto?
I'm trying to get through a 120 heat run (Thanatos' butterfly thingy+adamant rail) and I can easily beat Tisiphone and Meg, usually with at most one or two hits (still alot of damage with +300% or so, but manageable)
However, no matter how strong I feel my build is, I always die to Alecto
Right now it seems whether or not I get to see (and usually die to, because I'm bad) the Hydra is entirely dependent on whether or not Alecto is the first boss
(sorry if this is the wrong place to discuss this)
atomic panther
It's absolutely the right place. Alecto is really difficult because (to me) a lot of her windups look similar to each other while functioning differently than the other furies. If you can, try to get behind her whenever she winds up for an attack, get the backstab damage, then back off. Unfortunately, this doesn't work very well for her permarage mode, so I tend to sit back and poke with casts to slowly whittle her health down.
lament lion
her non-rage mode is quite doable, I just run in circles like the screen is red and there is a timer counting down while taking pot shots
everytime she rages I just get hit by random tiny red projectiles etc, dashing into her sometimes makes her just smack me in the face, having trouble coming up with good ways of dodgin
atomic panther
Stay as far away as possible, and remember that sometimes it's better to walk than to dash
clever prawn
Does anyone have any specific advice for how to consistently beat the Hydra? I've tried looking online, and what I've found there are all very build based, which of course depends on RNG.
For me, it feels like if I don't get an opportunity to get any any abilities with reflect on them, I'm just boned during the 6 additional heads part unless I've got a stack of revives.
median ridge
my usual strategy is trying to stay on one side of the arena and clearing a space so i have room to take my time with the rest. i don’t have any specific builds in mind although some are definitely more effective than others. just make sure you have a pretty consistent and powerful source of damage so you can clear the hydra heads quickly. once you have some space then you can take your time and be careful with the others.
there’s also some healing item pots in the top left and right although you’ve probably found those already
plucky oxide
Carve out the space needed, yeah. An overwhelming offense is often better than any defense.
Ares Cast is reliable and easy to start pom'ing for consistent burst.
median ridge
stay as far away from the wavemaker hydras as you can and be prepared to dodge when you see them roar
athena deflect stuff (especially wrath) is especially good but not necessary
grand patrol
in my few hydra wins ive found nasty dash works amazingly
median ridge
having a damaging dash is fantastic for raising your damage output
and then for the single hydra head sequences, stay at range if you can and whittle away at it. the missiles can be destroyed with some weapon types (bow special is great for that)
clever prawn
@median ridge I actually had not (intentionally) found the healing items. I haven't seen any drop anywhere else in the game, so I didn't even think to look for them.
@plucky oxide Yeah, that Area cast and Artemis Wrath are the two best options I've run into for dealing with the heads.
However, when you're doing the heat run, and it's set up so you don't get to pick your boons, the odds of getting them go way down. XD
atomic panther
I just grab World Splitter and chop my way to victory
plucky oxide
World Splitter on sword, Shotgun on Rail, and Artemis' Deadly Reversal are insane. They are the best sources of damage. Bull Rush shield and a few spear hammer upgrades are honorable mentions.
median ridge
if you can find the upgrade that lets you auto-crit for 3 seconds after specialing, that one is insane for damage
on the sword
or the dash attack upgrade on the sword, especially paired with artemis’s dash
plucky oxide
Yeah. Sword is probably the beefiest weapon. Definitely overtuned.
median ridge
the only downside with the sword is you rely on your cast for any range, which cost me a run against the hydra
clever prawn
I really had not been getting the dash attack at all, because it pops up with values between 14 and 18 damage per hit? Never seemed as worthwhile as increasing each melee attack by 50% damage.
That's not of course including the upgrade, that uses your dash when you press the special.
median ridge
i had a run with a chaos boon increasing the damage of the dash attack, a boon increasing base attack damage, the daedalus dash attack upgrade, and artemis on dash. i basically two-shot meg
night compass
i just finished the 2nd run where i managed to get 2 legendary boons. its a lot of fun but they dont seem to cooperate. for instance the extra lightning bursts ended up damaging and killing my charmed enemies
turbid needle
Ooff
ocean halo
Hardest choice in my life
https://imgur.com/CEfdmVo
formal drum
Aphrodite's insane, it will just take some time until people realize it
tight shadow
I already realize it, I usually use her keepsake
her rare and epic boons are all nuts
and a few of her others too
opaque merlin
+weakness duration with Ares duo is silly nonsense
dense flare
If you haven't yet, try the shield with Athena's deflect on attack (or special, really) and then Artemis crit on deflect. In a lot of rooms you just run around with permanent crits, bosses included
cerulean junco
Varatha+armor pierce daedlus upgrade+any weakness on attack Aphrodite boon+Zeus splitting bolts=dumb op fun
pastel jolt
i mean, you could shorten that
splitting bolt is the dumb op fun in that combination
everything else is just more on top
plush blaze
Got my first ever sub 6 minute run!
dire gazelle
hey! is it possible to pick up more than one Hammer upgrade a run ive noticed i only ever see one
green birch
As of right now, nope
dire gazelle
thanks! was making sure i wasnt going crazy lol
placid plinth
Are +X% dmg boons ever effective on Rail attack? I always prefer flat damage, like Zeus, Ares or Dio, because rail DPS is so miniscule that +50% don't help much
And in general, maybe I don't understand something about Rail? It feels so extremely weak. It requires reload, it deals low DPS, it's special is so slow that enemies leave damage area when projectile hits
dense flare
You gotta lead them. And you can fire the special while reloading so you don't lose too much dps
But yeah, I would guess Ares' curse/Zeus bolts would be great for it
What I was meaning to ask about: Is knockback just useless vs bosses, or does it add damage in any way?
Because poseidon builds feel gimped if the first is the case.
opaque merlin
The rail, even more than most weapons, depends on good synergy between boons and hammer upgrades. The shotgun upgrade skyrockets your dps dramatically, for example. For the basic attack, though, I think the best boons are Zeus, Dionysus, or Ares if you can get the "extra plinks increase curse damage" upgrade
ember lotus
The rail drives me batty. It takes forever to kill anything unless you get those boons, or the shotgun hammer upgrade. Half the time I find myself just looking for a strong cast and decent damage dash boon and just working off that. It's to a point where i don't know which god boons to prioritize from the start because until I get the hammer I don't know what I'm doing. Unless it's the epic Zeus dash or the epic Ares/Aphrodite cast.
median ridge
weird, i’ve always found that the rail was one of the strongest weapons. i had my first victories with it. obviously it needs upgrades to really be good but that’s all the weapons
i guess playing on keyboard + mouse vs controller really affects the ease of using the rail
placid plinth
It's a lot harder to build good run with rail compared to other weapons. If you don't get right boons/hammer with other weapons, you can still do okay-ish, but with rail you are screwed
woeful stirrup
Rail can work with any build, unless you're at medium to high heat, just lie other weapons.
median ridge
it seems like the best and worst weapons varies from person to person, which is good. my worst one is shield
dense flare
That's my best one along with spear :(
Although I mostly just spam special and charge
placid plinth
For me it's Bow (dash perfect shot is satisfying as heck) > Spear (Good range + good speed + ranged special + charge attack) > Shield (mostly Bull Rush) > Sword (too close for comfort but at least good DPS) > Rail (really can't see positives)
Btw, do Hydra heads deal contact damage or I just died because I didn't see an attack?
green birch
Because you didn't see an attack!
pastel jolt
they have a habit of biting you if you get close
if you're standing under them at the time, it's basically just "hey, have some damage"
median ridge
i think my weapons ranked are sword, rail, bow, spear, and shield. the sword has some brokenly good daedalus hammers and it feels good to play. rail has the benefit of both the main attack softening enemies and the special doing big hits (and i can aim the special at enemies as they’re spawning in)
it’s two of my favorite bastion weapons rolled into one
dense flare
Sword is my least favourite one above bow :/
placid plinth
I liked mortar in Bastion I think (I need to replay that game, don't remember much now), but I'm not sure if it was as slow
And close-range stuff (like sword) for me is bad in general, just because I have awful reaction time and can't notice that they start to attack me while I attack them
median ridge
the mortar in bastion was even slower. you needed to stand still for a long time to line up the shot where you wanted it
and it still has the delay between shooting and the shot landing
placid plinth
Huh
I've been playing on 25 heat all that time, with +25% enemy speed. Now trying no-heat run with rail, maybe I'll like it better now
median ridge
i also changed the special key to shift, instead of q. made it way less awkward with pretty much all the weapons
placid plinth
Soooo, turns out 25% enemy speed is quite a lot
I probably need a find a new setup for 25 heat
placid plinth
More enemy damage sounds scary because I get hit a lot
Usually
But probably it has a lot to do with high speed
placid plinth
Alecto is so freakin' fast, I always burn at least one DD on her, often more
Also I just died on Hydra on 0 heat. So, probably it's not only because of +25 speed, very likely that I just suck
placid plinth
How hard is Death Insurance in general case?
proud storm
it basically forces you to hit enemies twice before you can deplete their health
most of the time it's not that bad but it's an absolute nightmare on numbskulls and skullomats
you dont know true fear until you get swarmed by 15+ death insured numbskulls
green birch
It does have attack interruption but not on armor, so especially with armored numbskulls and skullomats you're gonna want to cry
green birch
diooooo
proud storm
and dio
green birch
ares revenge boons are useful with one death insurance, but not two
placid plinth
Does this seem ok?
http://prntscr.com/nbhyvf
Also not sure if "Does this seem ok" is correct phrase in english 😄
proud storm
remove grim inevitability and invest more in death insurance
youre gonna want that healing if you get hit a lot like you said
and dont be afraid to invest in stifling darkness
placid plinth
I've been running with -40 GI and it's mostly ok
green birch
a couple in convenience fee is also not a bad move
proud storm
yeah
placid plinth
I specifically don't invest in convenience fee, because I need to know exactly how much everything costs before going to shop. Doing math with 125 gold is easier than with 138
proud storm
you do you but honestly investing in like 2 or 3 levels of convenience fee isnt so bad
green birch
It's confusing at first but you do get a sense for it pretty quickly, but to each theor own
placid plinth
What is Death Insurance to good ole shotgun from the goddess of love herself
But without it I would be screwed because Infernal Trove just unleashed a billion skulls on me
errant narwhal
this was fun
forest marsh
Some heads are gonna roll
green birch
y. yikes
pastel jolt
oh that room is easy on survival
dense flare
That looks like the ideal place to use the gun in
unkempt pagoda
I, for one, quite like the above. It's like the room shifts at the same time as her attack. However, I believe it doesn't feel right because the positions of Zag and Tisiphone always reset at each segment. Maybe have Zag and Tisiphone start in the same position as the previous segment? And if they can't be in that position, have them backed up against the walls as if they were pushed in?
Before I post this in #hades-feedback, does this seem worded right?
green birch
the wording seems fine
placid plinth
Run with new setup took 29 minutes instead of my usual 20-ish. I think, it's most likely because of +25% enemies and +25% HP
At this point I wonder, why am I doing this, it's not like I need sixth reroll that much :D
And it's not like I some kind of gaming pro that craves more challenge :/
I'm awful at action games in general. I haven't made a single action outside of Turn() in Transistor 😄
Well, except Jaunt
green birch
you're doing this cause you like the game and want to find more ways to keep it fresh! that's my guess, at least
placid plinth
I guess 😄
green birch
plus you gotta git gud before the next update 👀 so you won't be like us unfortunate Hydra strugglers
placid plinth
I wonder on what heat majority of people plays
forest marsh
Majority? Probably no heat
placid plinth
I decided to also go no heat from now on, turns out a lot of my complaints about unfairness and everyting being too chaotic to have control are partially alleviated by playing without +25% enemy speed
dense flare
No heat cause I just unlocked it and am still bad - oh wait I think I set it to 5 with a darkness cap since I don't really run max darkness yet either.
mint leaf
I don't know if I'll ever be able to do 120 heat without issues, but strangely, 50% enemy speed is way easier than 25% or even 15% for some weird reason. Something about the windups and behaviors is just easier to parse. (For me, anyway.)
proud storm
oh i got a question
does whipped frenzy make thanatos faster
i mean i know it makes enemies faster but since you're kinda competing against thanatos at his little game
plush blaze
I don't think it does, but I also have no idea
Thanatos looks the same to me in my runs on whipped frenzy as he does on other people's runs
proud storm
right
proud palm
Is Alecto usually considered to be overtuned, or do I just not get how to fight her?
plush blaze
She's the fury that I hear the most complaints about
proud palm
Not just me then. Okay. Yeah, like I beat her basically always except on high heat, but I really couldn't say I have a systematic way of doing it - I take masses of damage, nor could I describe a strategy. More just dash in circles and pray 😛 It might just be my own personal limits as a gamer but I cannot keep track of that much stuff on screen at once. Thought I'd check here though rather than post in feedback in case someone can tell me there's something I'm missing
plush blaze
Yeah she's the one that I sometimes lose a death defy to
proud storm
new pickup item: the "onion juice", which is basically the opposite of ambrosia in that it makes other people hate you
grand patrol
i love that
proud storm
this is the only way to reach 0 hearts with cerberus, at which point you unlock his boss fight
finite grail
You can get characters to just leave the game altogether period with enough onion juice
unkempt pagoda
wrong cereberus loves you anyway
finite grail
“Oh well Sisyphus hates me now I guess”
grand patrol
you give chaos onion juice and you get mandatory curses always
unkempt pagoda
if you get to -10 hearts, they give you a trinket so you can leave them alone
proud storm
djfhjdfhj every trinket does the complete opposite of their effect
grand patrol
-olympian negative trinkets: guarrantees you never see them
-anti-butterfly: works if you get hurt
-fixed shackle: heals enemies when crushed
-new spiked collar: -40 health
proud storm
the spiked collar has the spikes inside
grand patrol
AAAAAAAAAAA
unkempt pagoda
every room you take damage in, you gain +1% damage taken
grand patrol
uncosmic egg: chaos gates do twice as much damage
nearby memory: do extra damage to close-by foes
unkempt pagoda
foot earring
proud storm
white shawl: whenever you gain darkness, take damage for 40% of the amount of darkness
grand patrol
hgvhjgghjgvhj
FOOT EARRING.......DO HALF DAMAGE AT LOW HEASLTH
unlucky tooth: lose a death defy
unkempt pagoda
killing an enemy gives them a death insurance
proud storm
harpy feather crusher: broken urns have a 4% chance to hurt you
unkempt pagoda
myrmidon breaker: you just take more damage
pastel jolt
you hear charon breathing the whole time you have the anti-hourglass equipped
grand patrol
jhgvhjfvhjfhj
unkempt pagoda
the s k i n hourglass
proud storm
myrmidon braces: take 35% more damage from the front, die if you take damage from the back
grand patrol
if you give onion juice to hades he actually gives you a keepsake
unkempt pagoda
if you make hades hate you, he actually helps you leave hell
finite grail
onion juice is the new heat
proud storm
he gives you an onion necklace
unkempt pagoda
all the enemies are onions
grand patrol
wretched salad, wretched saute, wretched onion soup,
unkempt pagoda
onlecto
grand patrol
tisiphonion
unkempt pagoda
lava is replaced with onion soup
proud storm
empty cup: dio boosts all enemies for the entire run
unkempt pagoda
every room has the angry god effect
proud storm
yeah
grand patrol
🍇 
well man that sure is...well.....whew did that bottle stink! now, how about i return the favor!
finite grail
The furies start to actually like you
unkempt pagoda
lmao the grape
proud storm
blood-filled vial -> bottle of ketchup
pastel jolt
but it's a bottle that you didn't shake properly so it's all watery and gross when you go to get some
lost rose
gkjdfhgkjh this is all so extremely cursed
grand patrol
i know were all fun and games right now but if there was a way to make characters permanantly dislike you itd break my heart
grand patrol
if i went into a sisy room and he was like yknow i miss how we were, prince z...agreus.. if i saw dusa and she said i- im not really ready to talk to you right now. etc. id DIE
SAME THO
unkempt pagoda
i wish i could still give ambrosia even when i’ve maxed chars out
i have 8 of these suckers take them let me love you
plush blaze
stoic berry
I was wondering on everyone's opinion on the bow? I can never even get past the first boss with it, to me it just feels like the spears special but worse? Is there any advantage to it I'm not seeing?
lost rose
well one difference is that it's an attack rather than a special, which means it has a different set of boons open to it than the spear special does, and imo a better set
artemis' dash attack boon, for example, which is basically useless on the spear but very good on bow
right now spear special is just particularly broken because of vicious skewer
stoic berry
ok ill try that, I never really go for the artemis boons lol
lost rose
The 100% +special daedalus hammer is basically a requirement to make bow special any good, although a dionysus or ares special boon is also good because of the wide spread and high damage
you can hit four or five enemies with that sweet sweet curse damage
and even more if you have +100% special
unkempt pagoda
the armor piercing hammer with zeus special for those sweet sweet point blank specials
and you mess up anything behind them
stoic berry
nice thanks lets hope i can clear it with the bow one day then lol
placid plinth
Also, the key to bow is finding a rhythm. Dash, aim, power shot, dash, aim, power shot
Not only high damage, it's also extremely satisfying
opaque merlin
For the bow special, don't underestimate Athena's deflect boon -- it can make otherwise-very-hectic rooms, especially in Asphodel, totally trivial
placid plinth
Yes, bow special is good for utility, but pretty bad for damage
At least unupgraded
When it's piercing or relentless, it can do wonders when paired with flat damage boons
Ares/Zeus/Dio
opaque merlin
Yeah, very utility-heavy
It's actually a very strong room clear with Poseidon, too, even without hammer upgrade
Doesn't help much on bosses, though
opaque merlin
No, even then. Keeps a lot of stuff standing in lava
And the flying stuff, you can still plink with your basic from afar
placid plinth
Yeah, bow is probably the only weapon that works good with Poseidon in Asphodel imo. Other weapons require mixed style builds, so your ranged option is on par with melee option
And you're screwed with sword
opaque merlin
I've had a lot of fun with Poseidon spear special + multiskewer, but otherwise, yeah
I really love sword special with Athena deflect, though
placid plinth
I very rarely use sword special, it feels too slow and unwieldy
opaque merlin
That's why it's so great with deflect -- the entire time the animation is going, you're deflecting. Especially if you get the increased radius, it can do cool stuff with projectile spam, too
placid plinth
Wait, really? It starts deflecting even before doing damage?
opaque merlin
Wherever the ring is as it expands, that's where deflection is happening
open geode
spear athena special, artemis deadly reversal, vicious skewer or the armor skewer
one-two shot everything
one of my favourite builds
opaque merlin
What happens if crit chance exceeds 100%, incidentally? Is it just wasted?
unkempt pagoda
WOO just finished my first 60 heat run
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/187458596559257600/567524259287531540/Hades_00008.png
lost rose
WOO NICE!!
forest marsh
That feeling when Tenebrous Veil takes away Deadly Reversal from you on an otherwise perfect Vicious Skewer build 
(already had Epic Divine Flourish)
Twice now in the same run I have been denied it
placid plinth
I'm 87% sure that Deadly Reversal will be nerfed hard in the next update
forest marsh
Beat Thanatos in Asphodel on 60 
, I'm (not) dying over here
This might be my first time reaching Hydra on 60, too
I will not survive, though
This is what I'm going in with... Not bad, but was really hoping to get Hunter Dash https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553141358903164941/567557356817350666/Hades_00269.png
forest marsh
True! Today is the first day that I've really made an actual effort to play on 60. I've tried it half-heartedly a couple times before, though
lost rose
i made a couple equally half-hearted attempts at 120. it Hurts
forest marsh
I want to try to get 120 (or at least 60) before the new biome
lost rose
same
i got like most of the way through asphodel and then a murderboat...uh....murdered me.
forest marsh
Then I can pretend I got it normally when the full game is out 
lost rose
i tried to start on bow but ended up switching over to spear
i may start using whipped frenzy to cut enemy numbers down
forest marsh
This was a bow run, and I'm still most comfortable with it. I have been throwing some spear runs in on 60 too, though
I just need to stop playing like it's on no heat, though. Be more cautious and the like
Just so impatient
lost rose
chipping enemies down with bow is just....so bad
and there's currently that Thing™ where sometimes using special locks up your regular attack on bow
just for a second but that is a Deadly Second
a zeus/athena/artemis run with spear would be the ideal
forest marsh
More than ever it's important to get the boons you want at the earliest convenience, too, it seems
lost rose
yeah
zeus attack is really really helpful
for knocking out those death defiances early
forest marsh
I don't abandon runs, but it hurts to make it all the way through Tartarus without anything you set out for
I've tried with the Death Insurance a few times, but I just don't like it. Maybe for 120 I'll give it a go, though
Again, impatient 🙃
lost rose
i'd take those over other stuff
i think my current setup pours a lot into extra damage and enemy numbers so i don't have to use whipped frenzy
like +250% damage gkgdf
one or two hits knock me out
forest marsh
I was running 250% for a bit earlier, but dialed it down 'cause I get hit too much (recurring theme... impatient)
lost rose
i play thanatos trinket for fun but i still mess up once every few rooms so....
forest marsh
I don't remember all of what I'm running, just started a new run so I'll screenshot it after
forest marsh
Numbskulls + Death Insurance and no AoE/Zeus is scary
forest marsh
Brimstones are also super brutal on high damage
Current Pact setup https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553141358903164941/567562448169861121/Hades_00270.png
lost rose
i only managed 60 heat once i turned tenebrous veil off, that was honestly the hardest part of it
as long as you have it, you have to either be really familiar with how to cheese the rng or submit yourself to just grinding until you get a run with a perfect boon setup
and that just sucks
forest marsh
Yeah, I was considering turning TV off... maybe I'll try a few runs with this setup https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553141358903164941/567563257334988800/Hades_00271.png
lost rose
wait you're not using any stifling darkness???
forest marsh
Pffff, I like my Darkness sinks
forest marsh
I did do a few attempts with max SD earlier
Being able to re-roll is such a help, though
lost rose
like, i guess? i never use the rerolls anyways, they're only there at all because having huge stockpiles of resources deeply bothers me
i'm trying to fritter them away through bad broker trades gkhdfgdf
forest marsh
I only ever reroll the gold-laurel rooms
And only then if I'm looking for something in particular
lost rose
this is my 120 setup right now
forest marsh
Funnily enough that's not far off of what I was running at 60 for a while, just with the addition of SD, DI, and one more TV
I think I'll try a few runs at just max Stifling Darkness, Convenience Fee, and Shared Misery
But not tonight, I've played more than enough for a day
lost rose
need that good good healing if i'm gonna be taking +250% hits
it gives me a little wiggle room as long as i don't flat-out die
i find it's actually harder to run normal difficulty with no healing than to run +250% damage with all the healing
but that's probably fairly obvious
turbid needle
What weapon do you take with this?
lost rose
Spear
placid plinth
So apparently Whipped Frenzy and Grim Inevitability that bad that people would rather pick Tenebrous Veil and some more Stifling Darkness?
lost rose
yes.
it totally depends on your playstyle wrt grim inevitability, I think, but everyone pretty much agrees that whipped frenzy sucks
pastel jolt
whipped frenzy doesn’t just make enemies move faster, it makes them attack sooner from further away
placid plinth
When I farmed Darkness I've been running with WF +25% and complained about how fast and chaotic everything is because I completely forgot I have it at +25 😄
pastel jolt
it actually gets used in speedruns for exactly that reason, actually
placid plinth
Just so happened that I went in Chaos gate after room 13 (i.e. instead of shop). But when I left it, I landed not in boss room, as I expected, but in shop - and then all rooms were shifted by one. So I fought Hydra not in room 26 like usual, but in room 27.
How do you think, is this a bug or intended behavior?
still pewter
I think it's intended but I'm not too sure
it should be quite easy to test, but chaos/heat gates are either entirely "extra" floors, meaning they don't actually advance you towards the boss at all
or that this rule applies sort of like an exception, when scripted encounters are up next, like shops or bosses
placid plinth
When it's not before shop, chaos gate replaces next room, and everything else goes as usual
still pewter
are you sure?
I'm just asking, I'm not sure myself
I think it makes sense that there's an exception for shops etc
before bosses
placid plinth
Yep. Room counter increases, I checked it when room counter was just implemented
still pewter
room counter always increases, I know, but does your position relative to the boss change? do you actually move up a floor? or is the chamber counter just inflated?
that's what I don't know
again, a run with a couple of gates in it will answer this question
placid plinth
First boss is always in room 15, regardless of how many chaos gates you went into
placid plinth
On another topic, Dio + Spreadshot is great - just applying five stacks of poison per shot to anything in front of you
copper berry
The real question is does that affect your "farthest chamber reached" stat. I believe that entering the door after Hydra counts as another chamber, so that would give you 27. My farthest chamber is 28, and I had always assumed that was just including Skelly's room.
pastel jolt
i think it does, because i assumed that’s why they changed the message for furthest chamber
bc people were seeing “furthest chamber reached: 28 of 27”
i could be wrong and i probably am
forest marsh
I don't think you're wrong, I'm pretty sure that's exactly what was happening
As I recall, someone managed 29 rooms a little while back, too
forest marsh
I'm pretty certain it's from entering a Chaos gate right before (2nd room before, that is) the mid-boss and the Hydra
green birch
Given our current information, the only way to get 29 would be to enter a chaos door two rooms before a boss fight (pre Tatarus Charon and pre Hydra Charon)
yeah that
copper berry
So then we are assuming that Skelly doesn't factor into the chamber counts.
forest marsh
Correct
green birch
yes
copper berry
Wasn't sure if it secretly factored in so they didn't have to offset their arrays by 1.
So it would be the covert "Chamber 0"
green birch
Believe if you press tab after leaving hades house you'll be at chamber 1
OH I get what you're saying now
forest marsh
I don't think that's the case, re: Chamber 0 for Skelly
It's not like it's hard to offset the output of an array, after all, and if Skelly was 0 then it'd be triggering the count on and off each time you entered and exited which just seems like unnecessary programming work
green birch
Also the chamber count might be a separate variable from the one that handles the rooms and such... cause it doesn't count with certain types of rooms and all
copper berry
Alright just confirmed it.
Chaos before the pre boss shop in both areas lets you hit chamber 29
I had actually originally assumed that the chamber 28 of 27 thing was due to the fact that Chaos was supposed to be a "secret" room. But of course with the addition of Erebus it showed that wasn't the case.
So if you have X number of pre-boss or event or what have you rooms, then you could add X to the "normal" chamber count to figure out how far you could extend it.
So next patch we can have +3 chambers 
green birch
Assuming this is intentional behavior and they don't patch it, yeah!
placid plinth
Well, this was the most OP run ever
https://i.imgur.com/tAd4DHb.jpg
Special +126% from Chaos, +174% from Athena and a freakin' Vicious Skewer
I just obliterated everything
Even though it's only 0 heat
tranquil needle
Jeeeeez
forest marsh
So that was... weird. I took an Infernal Gate in Asphodel (I think for the first time in Asphodel, usually only see them in Tartarus) and it was just a bunch of regular Witches... I mean, don't get me wrong, there were a lot of waves of them, but I figured they'd at least be Elite Witches
unkempt pagoda
oh yeah, same. i thought it was gonna be a bunch of bloodless but they seem to be the same as tartarus rooms
forest marsh
Yeah, it wasn't the enemy type that threw me off, it was that they were just normal, single-orb-shooting Witches
I've had harder Erebus rooms in Tartarus than that
Wish me luck... I might actually do it this time if I don't screw up too badly https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/553141358903164941/567903959503732779/B_PreBoss01_00273.png
lost rose
good luck!!!
forest marsh
2 phases down... Taking a breather. Calm my heart
Still have 3 DD
Wave heads both of the first two phases... Glad for Athena Wrath even if I mistimed it a couple times
Really hoping for no wave heads in the 3rd phase, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Ok, back in
3rd phase down, 3 wave heads though. Lost 1 DD, 2 remaining. Should have this in the bag now
! 
I done did it
lost rose
YOU DID IT!
grand patrol
you done did it!!!
forest marsh
I'm shaking, no lie
I think that took me... 8 - 10 attempts between today and yesterday at 60 Heat
forest marsh
You can just share a link, though
forest marsh
It is, at that's only Common rarity
forest marsh
Don't sleep on Artemis attack on bow, either (at least on Epic). The crit procs fairly often and does a lot of damage
But Athena would still be preferable
lime ingot
hehe
forest marsh
Poseidon is great too
I like Poseidon on bow special for creating space when things are getting hairy
Especially on higher Heat when you're running +50% enemies
lime ingot
rofl yeah
i can imagine
also, can you get multiple boons on a certain thing
like dionysus + athena on special?
forest marsh
No, you can only get one each of Attack, Dash, Special, and Cast
forest marsh
But there are still modifiers like the Duo boons that add effects to attacks, and Chaos can modify them too with straight buffs
For example the Athena/Artemis Duo (most busted IMO) gives you 3 seconds of crit on your attacks after you deflect
unkempt pagoda
athena's artemis's dash also kinda is an attack boon
since it's a damage increase to your dash attack
forest marsh
You mean Artemis?
unkempt pagoda
oops, yeah
forest marsh
I was confused for a bit until your second message
It's pretty circumstantial, though
unkempt pagoda
it just shows you that artemis is the best god in the game
if you're doing dash power shot bow, it's heavenly
unkempt pagoda
i think i had that with power shot hammer, pressure points, and athena attack
lime ingot
LOL SPEAK OF THE DEVIL HADES
forest marsh
Mmmmm, delicious
unkempt pagoda
with distant memory
lime ingot
forest marsh
Interesting, I usually sleep on Distant Memory
unkempt pagoda
👌
unkempt pagoda
distant memory is great for when you're focusing on attack bow
forest marsh
My range on bow is often distinctly not long range, though
Quite often it's medium range or point blank
I still take long shots, but not enough to warrant a keepsake based on it
unkempt pagoda
i usually reserve medium-close range for special bow builds
forest marsh
I just dash circles around enemies at med-close
unkempt pagoda
point blank relentless specials decimate enemies
WAIT, i got the attack boon wrong on that last build
it was aphrodite attack
forest marsh
The game told me that I was getting rather good at this when I exited after that victory
Thanks, Storyteller
unkempt pagoda
mr narrator told me zag fell off a precipice into the river styx and died
forest marsh
Sounds like you're on track for a third win!
unkempt pagoda
just spam that and nothing will touch you
lime ingot
exactly XD
forest marsh
I'm debating if I should even keep playing tonight or end on a high note... Next step is 120
unkempt pagoda
oh since i finished 60 i've just been playing on 0 until i collect 120 heat
my first reaction was "i thought this was hard?"
forest marsh
Oh, I'm long past that. I only started focusing on Heat runs these last couple days. I'd done a 25 run a while back, but mostly played no Heat. So I've got 207 runs on this save, 90% of which were no heat
lost rose
my motivation to play heat runs has been temporarily sidelined into "don't i have better things to do?" but i might get bored enough to try 120 again sometime
hell maybe i'll stream
forest marsh
Stream your pain and suffering for the Greater Good?
lost rose
yes precisely
probably no mic tho unless i borrow my coworker's, the built-in on my headphones sucks
unkempt pagoda
let the chat choose your boons
lost rose
choose? i have no choices, it's max tenebrous veil gkdfghdf
forest marsh
For the record, my 60 was just max Stifling Darkness, Convenience Fee, and Shared Misery
lost rose
seee stifling darkness isn't so bad
forest marsh
I think that was the best way to go in the end
unkempt pagoda
lmao oof
forest marsh
Not having to deal with extra damage or enemy health was so nice
The damage I think is what was doing me in before
120 is going to be rough, though
But I have... 3 weeks to do it
lime ingot
my motivation? QA POSITION
forest marsh
You only need 15 for that, at least
lime ingot
that's the run i'm doing right now =w=
lost rose
qa position is why i stopped running heat, i'm bug-testing gkfdjgdf
forest marsh
Plus, y'know, to be good at all the other things
forest marsh
I don't envy whoever has to go through all those applications
lime ingot
finding two bugs XD
unkempt pagoda
i put a little into shared misery and pressed the rest of my heat into pain tolerance and vicious torment
lost rose
joke's on us, sgg is just crowd-sourcing tons of bug reports
forest marsh
There are lots of known bugs, to be fair
forest marsh
Not sure if that would count, though
lime ingot
same actually 🤔
unkempt pagoda
i rely too much on shops and food to put heat into them
lost rose
idk why it wouldn't; it's about showing that you can document and report in an organized and thorough way
lime ingot
^
forest marsh
True, and reproducing them accurately
lime ingot
i was gonna look for bugs and if i didn't find any, take one of the known ones
lost rose
oh i figured out why bow special feels so bad to use sometimes and it has to do with inputs being dropped while the animation for the previous attack is still going, there's no canceling but bow special has a really long animation so there's a much wider window of like "that should have worked, why is it not firing"
lime ingot
unbeknowest to the naive mortals of earth, the Olympians had already had the perfect game
forest marsh
I've already submitted probably dozens if not over a hundred reports over the course of the Early Access so far, does that count?
I kid, I don't have the time to do this QA position, and I'm already in the middle of starting a new career
lime ingot
i feel you
lost rose
also something something you can't use special and then dash and use it again?
but that's consistent across weapons
lime ingot
i picked up a second job literally a week and day ago
and i saw this and i was like WRYYYYYYYYYY
forest marsh
I also have a casual side job when I'm not (currently) busy with schooling for my career
lost rose
i'm technically not available now but i still wanna give it a shot
put my name in the hat in case they need people later
i have no plans after my current contract ends lol
¯_(ツ)_/¯
forest marsh
I'm happy with the amount I'm already able to contribute to the SG process. I'd love to be part of the team, but it's just not in my cards currently
lime ingot
oh boy, slothful flourish
forest marsh
Who knows, ven, there may be additional opportunities in the future
lime ingot
more special attack damage after suffering movespeed debuff for 3 rooms lol
lost rose
valid and extremely reasonable
yeah! i'm optimistic but not like leaning on it or anything
i already do a lot here
forest marsh
Reduced movement speed is probably the best Chaos curse to get, because who walks anywhere in combat? 
lime ingot
ikr
forest marsh
Honestly, they should probably rebalance that to affect attack speed like Whipped Frenzy does for the enemies
lime ingot
lol
forest marsh
Or else make WF consistent with the Chaos curse
lost rose
yeah
forest marsh
No, Dash is the worst curse
lost rose
i have actually begun to appreciate the merits of Just Walking a lot more
forest marsh
Because right now they are ostensibly the same mechanic, but they have different effects
unkempt pagoda
dash and attack are both the highest of the worst
forest marsh
I walk in Survival rooms, that's about it
unkempt pagoda
the can't-pick-up-cast curse is the one i usually go with, honestly
don't have too many cast runs anymore
forest marsh
I never really got into straight cast builds, always seemed too dependent on getting the right boons
I like Cast, don't get me wrong
It's basically free damage
inland nacelle
Started working on Heat runs now || https://i.imgur.com/Ozy59cF.png ||
lime ingot
ar's clunky to use for me
worn owl
ar is still the only weapon I do not have a clear with
lime ingot
i've only cleared with bow and spear
inland nacelle
I was playing to unlock the lore behind the items, but now that I've cleared the game, there's the buff for taking a specific item, so I'm going with whatever that tells me now. XD
forest marsh
That's a good way to play, I did that for quite a while
inland nacelle
During gameplay, with the Adamant Rail, during the reload animation, you can interrupt the reload animation with a cast, dash, special, or wrath and the reload will continue. Though I'm not sure if that is functioning as intended or if the reload should lock those out. I could see either option from a gameplay perspective.
forest marsh
I believe it's functioning as intended currently
The devs are generally aware of the animation cancels and work them into the balancing equation
lost rose
it used to be you couldn't cancel out of it and everyone complained so
inland nacelle
And there you go. 😄
forest marsh
They're also fairly open to suggestions where you think things aren't working or could be improved in regards to combat flow, if you have any thoughts on this
inland nacelle
Not right now. I'm still feeling out and getting comfortable with the weapons. That also depends on a lot on what the intended play experience is as well.
placid plinth
When I played on 25 heat, I complained about rail a lot, but after I started playing on only +0% enemy speed, I actually started appreciating the rail a lot more
forest marsh
I like the AR in general, my only real complaint is that it's a much slower paced weapon than the others
In regards to run times
forest marsh
Congrats!
lost rose
I'm on a really good 120 heat run...zeus attack, vicious skewer with poseidon buff
but i lost two of my death defies to a survival room full of numbskulls ;^;
raven lintel
rip 😦
lost rose
I doubt I'll make it very far through asphodel but we'll see. it is a really good boon loadout, i just have to not get trolled by murderboat
fluid moat
I just started doing 120 burn runs a couple of days ago, since then I've had 7 runs make it to hydra 😂 which shortly ended there after
crimson karma
Finally just beat the 120 heat run. Holy gods, that Hydra fight is so rough
lost rose
oh update bc i never posted last night, i totally died in asphodel, i've been experimenting with other setups on 120 heat but i just get hit too often >>
median ridge
in tartarus, getting a ton of zeus boons in a row
me: :0 am I going to get zeus's legendary?
in asphodel, never see zeus again
fluid moat
if you like viscious skewer, you should attempt to get a run with athena for first buff, artemis for 2nd; grab Deadly Reversal for the guarenteed crit for 3 seconds
strill trying to get a shield run with that for 120
median ridge
flurry blade with zeus attack is delicious
fluid moat
@placid plinth from your feedback about sudden rush:
you can dash cancel between 50%->100% through a bull rush and aim backwards or in an acute angle to dash attack leading into the next bull rush to make use of dash attack buff effects
placid plinth
I'd say it's too complicated of a technique to justify having Sudden Rush / Dash attack work like that
leaden oriole
Will there ever be a boon better than Titan Toppler?
The inferno-bombers are just made trivial, as a boss and as a regular enemy, when you have it
As well as anything with a projectile
unkempt pagoda
deadly reversal 😌
unkempt pagoda
~~sure footing 😌 ~~
pastel jolt
i'd rather have sure footing than titan toppler
atomic panther
Titan Toppler is the best (non-duo) boon in the game, and I stand by that
unkempt pagoda
but pressure points exist
cerulean sundial
Curse of pain is definitely my mvp so far, but I'm pretty new and just abusing the shield and bow with it so far primarily
forest marsh
I mean, as long as it works for your playstyle, that's all that matters!
placid plinth
Rail Spreadshot + Zeus Attack: does any hit that connects produce lightning strike or lightning strikes only once per attack?
placid plinth
Just happened to me, spend two keys to open trove, finished for 120-ish coins, tried to tap R for reload, miss, press E, quit to next chamber without claiming trove reward
fickle coyote
IM SALTY
after meg told me i was only strong because of the mirror i took off all the perks and when to fight her but the dialog was chiding me fore having the mirror
😠
forest marsh
You're not the first! It's a grade A troll on Meg's part
All kidding aside, I hope SG adds in something later that does address this
fickle coyote
mhm! it would be nice to get some unique dialog for it
amber rover
can anyone explain to me how the hearts in the codex work for each character? Been playing for a while now and can't seem to figure out exactly how they work
forest marsh
You gift them an Ambrosia and their heart level increases by one. This unlocks new dialog and/or scenes with the character
Locked hearts are not yet implemented in the game
amber rover
but then why do some hearts have the gift symbol on them and some do not
forest marsh
Every character will give you one gift in return for you gifting them, except Hades
amber rover
okay
thanks
also one more question, you can get a perfect landing when beginning an escape attempt, what does that do?
I think it increases chance of a higher quality upgrade but im not sure
forest marsh
Nothing substantive as far as we know
amber rover
okay
atomic panther
It changes the specific rng of a run, so if you restart the run halfway through and perform a perfect landing if you hadn't before (or vice versa) you'll get different drops
There is no strict mechanical advantage or disadvantage
median ridge
wait....perfect landing?
atomic panther
If you press dodge at the same moment you land, you perform a "perfect landing", with the aforementioned effects
forest marsh
You push attack or dash (and maybe also cast or special?) at the right time when you jump out the window
There are 2 different perfect landing animations, too
Depending on when you push the button
median ridge
huh. neat. i’ll have to try that
leaden oriole
Okay, okay, so the upgrade to Titan Toppler, Deadly Reversal, is better. But it's useless if you don't have a method of deflection in the first place.
Sure Footing doesn't seem superbly better, as I just try to avoid stepping on traps. (The joke here is that I don't always avoid stepping on traps)
plush blaze
You can basically spam dash to get a perfect landing
forest marsh
Sure Footing also reduces lava damage
leaden oriole
Like, I've definitely stepped in lava and traps before, but it's always been more of an inconvenience than, say, a run ender
Not to say it isn't useful, just not more useful
plucky oxide
titan topplers great, super unique dash. never use it, mostly because I don't like to make runs any longer than they have to be, and dash is my main mobility skill. if walking was faster than dashing, or zag had a run, maybe I'd take it more.
for as good as titan toppler is, it also teaches you how to dodge differently. puts you in a different mindset. its why i love it, respect it, and also understand why people often dont take or like it.
leaden oriole
I'm not a speed runner, so I can definitely understand why it'd be more inconvenient for someone using it to get from point A to point B.
But man does it make combat go much more smoothly
And ever since they added the ||Pierced Butterfly|| those no hit rooms make Zag's damage monstrous
plucky oxide
if im running 'first runs', or whatever people are calling it (where you try and beat hydra on a new save file), its the thing I always take from athena. it allows you to be incredibly safe without needing to rely on 3 dashes.
leaden oriole
The first time I beat Hydra, was back when they still had the ridiculous boons like the life steal one for Stygian Blade, and Athena's invulnerabilty bubble.
Oh! And the darkness upgrade where you could get a portion of your health back, if you damaged the thing that hit you soon enough