personally i like reloading it myself. it punishes me for mindlessly spamming and not paying attention to my ammo. and when i do reload i feel i have more agency
#h1-builds-and-combat
mellow aurora
wary jacinth
and we aren't exactly shooting for realism in this game
i mean keep the manual reload maybe give it a bonus dmg boost with active reload
forest marsh
I just want reload time to scale to how much ammo is left, personally
wary jacinth
but the empty shot firing feels really crappy
honestly active reload would be a good compromise for the people who like to micro manage this stuff
forest marsh
Or a boost window for hitting reload during a timed window like some games have
wary jacinth
you can get a damage boost for your hassle and the rest of us can play in peace
mellow aurora
if it feels crappy then reload when you are out of ammo @wary jacinth
wary jacinth
@forest marsh that's active reload
forest marsh
terminology ¯_(ツ)_/¯
mellow aurora
it would be nice to get rewarded for reloading correctly besides not looking like an idiot lol
wary jacinth
@mellow aurora you dont get my point man, I'm trying to make sense from a gameplay perspective on why it makes the game more fun. It certainly isn't challenging and it feels like a chore because you have to do it every time you run out of ammo
forest marsh
If you haven't submitted your thoughts on the reload mechanic as feedback already, you should do so
Talking about it here is fine and dandy, but the devs won't (potentially) act on it if it's not proper feedback
mellow aurora
as someone who plays fps, i appreciate the mechanic of shooting no bullets without reloading, but it would be nice to be rewarded for reloading properly
tender zephyr
Welp, second run is down the drain. Had a spear special run with Armor skewer and Artemis special booster +5.
Screw Alecto. Her attacks come out way too fast, and the only I can beat her is just by having enough hp to tank.
atomic panther
Nice
wary jacinth
@mellow aurora yeah
forest marsh
Congrats Caitlin!
atomic panther
Varatha, the Eternal Spear
primal folio
also shoutout to Athena's wrath who carried me through the meg fight so much
atomic panther
Athena's wrath is (pun intended) a godsend
wary jacinth
It's like when the reload happens a small progress bar like thing shows up near your head, with a cursor and a small rectangle. If you reload when the cursor is in the rectangle you get bonus damage/ammo or whatever
primal folio
I also really love Ares' too
I had a build with that where I had the Wrath Passive and Zeus Wrath Passives
made it pretty far but I didn't have enough health to clear the fight
tender zephyr
I feel bullied. Poseidon boosted witches just bullied me. They would divebomb me into the lava and shoot waves of energy balls.
And this was with Athena blessed Bow.
Granted, she and Artemis are bullying me too by denying me their sweet duo synergy with bow's special.
All I want to do is break the game. Is that so hard to ask?
New run.
Get Epic Athena Special boost.
Clear Hammer room
All Attack upgrades.
Game, why do you hate me?
tender zephyr
Ok, finally got my combo even if I had to go trough murderboat to get it.
Whose idea was it to put the new enemies on murderboat? Because that's just really dumb. Like I like my murderboat, but that's just too much murder.
In any case, I sleep now. I spent far too long trying to get that bloody combo up.
tough echo
Ares Legendary Boon anyone?
lost rose
yeah i'm not even gonna try that one lol
i love myself too much
i feel like 60 is plenty for my ~gamer cred~
There are some folks here who do 120 heat runs though, so if you want advice or to know what people's heat setups are, feel free to ask!
serene isle
I'll ask once I actually CAN attempt 120 heat runs (I only have 60 heat RN)
lost rose
aha! that would be an issue lol
serene isle
I'm really glad they put the rail in. It's become my favorite weapon. Iit's better than using the sheild of chaos special attack as a pseudo gun
lost rose
I can't get used to it myself...I used it for a handful of runs and then went right back to the bow, and now with the reload bound to that weird joystick press i'm more ehhh than before
i tried to rebind it and the controller menu wouldn't let me OTL
serene isle
I am keyboard mouse
so the Rail controls real well
plus during the hydra fight, you can literally camp the hydra heads with the special (thing goes through pillars)
lost rose
oh sweet
i don't remember if this is new or not, but it's pretty common to get six of the smashy heads on the final stage now and with a long-reach spear, bow or gun that's just, absurdly easy
you kill one really fast and then hover outside the other heads' stomping range and obliterate them
serene isle
Oh not even hover outside the head range
Liike you can literally be on the right pillar
and special snipe the left heads
lost rose
ah yeah i get you
i just meant in general
serene isle
Oh yeah. True.
lost rose
on like 3 of the recent fights i've done i've gotten an all-stompy final stage and it's been kind of absurd
it's cool to know you can do that with the gun special though
serene isle
I think my winning 60 had
2 smash on right side (with lava) and 2 lava + 1 smashy on left
lost rose
i know there's been salt about uhhh sword special not going through obstacles
serene isle
Well, gun special literally takes a whole freaking 3 seconds to hit things
lost rose
very, very true.
serene isle
Good thing the hydra heads don't move much :^)
lost rose
...just checked the recent patch and it looks like they actually fixed it so all the final heads have a ranged attack gdfkjgdf
serene isle
Oh good. So I don't gots to worry. Rail strats stillw ork
hasty mauve
I really dislike the rail
Doesn't really fit my playstyle 🤔
I've come to appreciate the bow lately, still think that Sword and Spear are great
lost rose
shield is the only weapon that i straight-up haven't touched since, like....almost the very beginning
once innate deflect was removed i just stopped using it, oops
serene isle
i think I refuse to use spear and sword
lost rose
i think i'd probably rank them....bow, spear, sword, gun, shield in terms of my familiarity and comfort with them
serene isle
wait shield has a block and dash charge?
lost rose
16 of my hydra clears are on bow kgjgfd
serene isle
I only use it to spam captain america
hasty mauve
I used to do that when I started
But melee massacre shield is great
Speedrunners use shield cause of bullrush
Animation canceeels
serene isle
I ain't speedrunning. I ain't that good!
This is basically how I play shield: https://imgur.com/a/tnzT7Qk
lost rose
beautiful.
serene isle
Why melee when you can be a safe god boi
wintry moon
shield is much more straightforward to use, even without the deflect it's quite good
easy mobility and you can negate area damage if you face the right way
I've never gotten around to reliably using the shield toss tho
and yeah the attack after a bullrush is quite responsive easily chainable
fading shell
I am trying to play at notebook's touchpad and shield toss is perfect for this style cause only two keys at use, "space" and "q"
And I slay Alecto!
It was so intensive fight
turbid needle
https://imgur.com/a/az9BLET that is one insane run
2 legendary boons on 15 heat.. let's goo
turbid needle
Don't know if this is intended witrh Artemis pressure points lava crits enemies, it's not you dealing damage is this an oversight? @lost rose
how do i give feedback about this stuf?
shadow copper
check the pinned message in #hades-feedback
lost rose
@turbid needle sounds like an oversight, yeah. You can report bugs in-game using F10
atomic panther
F10 is bug report, F11 is screenshot
lost rose
yeah i know i've been getting it mixed up a lot recently OTL
i gave them the right key in uhhh was it discussion or spoilers
anyways the bug was reported in the end so
shadow copper
discussion!
frosty pier
Shame that Dire misfortune was only common So good.
old rivet
whats the best contract for 60 heat ?
turbid needle
i am actually gonna end this run by killing myself
i just can't play with the bow anymore
old rivet
bow is so bad
turbid needle
i'm going back to my roots and the shield
people are telling me it's good
and after replying it
frosty pier
One question
turbid needle
i literally think it's the worst weapon
frosty pier
Mkb/controller?
old rivet
Bow is not that good because you have to stand still too much time to atack
turbid needle
well you can always get the boon that makes it so you don't have to charge
in temrs of gameplay
terms*
at least on mkb
old rivet
I think bow should do always 20 damage but no charging
turbid needle
also my aim with it sucks
funnily enough i do like the rail
but maybe cuz i can miss my shots and not having to charge up for every single one of them
frosty pier
Rail has interesting potential of combinatios
errant narwhal
well I think bow is very powerful but it’s not for everyone for sure
turbid needle
well i guess it depends what you are playing it on
a lot of games can feel terrible on console but good on mkb
or the opposite
errant narwhal
I would do some stifling darkness, a grim inevitability and some vicious torment instead of whipped frenzy
heavy solstice
@old rivet what are you aiming for with 49 heat?
old rivet
i have 60 heat ?!
lost rose
upper right corner, harv
hasty mauve
Indeed
heavy solstice
oh OOPS
hard holly
Ok, so Bow is the second best weapon
And the reason is that you really dont have to stand still a whole lot
You just dash, charge a perfect shot, then dash again
With how much range you have, 0.4 seconds isnt a lot of time standing still
hard holly
Yup
It helps that it has ludicrously powerful hammer upgrades and really high base damage
turbid needle
30 is really high?
hard holly
40 on the perfect shot
turbid needle
my problem again, isn't that i can't play with it
hard holly
40 is quite high, yes
turbid needle
it's that it's way too slow
at least compared to something like the shield
which you can clear a room incredibly fast with
turbid needle
maybe i've just used the shield too much and now everything else is slower
hard holly
You do the same amount of damage per dash, 40 and 20+20 respectively
But shield takes a bit longer, and its less safe
Plus, hitting multiple enemies with it is hard
turbid needle
i still haven't played hades on console
so i can't say if shield plays better there
hard holly
Shield is good, but Bow is better
old rivet
So whats the best weapon then ?
hard holly
Yeah the problem is that ranged enemies (which are a lot of enemies in asphodel) and jumping enemies arent usually close to each other
But are often in a line
Spear, thanks to its special
turbid needle
spear?
hard holly
Its started outclassing bow ever since vicious Skewer was buffed
turbid needle
my second least favorite weapon?
hard holly
Its absolutely ridiculous of a weapon
turbid needle
yikes
hard holly
It still is an absolutely ridiculous weapon
But I guess 1k hits are no longer possible
heavy solstice
It got more range is the thing
hard holly
Thats not actually the primary thing
old rivet
That upgrade that makes it ccrit on the way back whit back stab is discusting
hard holly
Spears damage is just way ahead of everyone else
turbid needle
i guess i can give the spear another shot
hard holly
A single throw+return can easily hit for 1.5k damage
Well, could
Im not sure if it still can
turbid needle
but if it ends up like the bow, i'll prolly just leave the run
and never touch it again
heavy solstice
not sure aiming for that special is realistic
hard holly
It is, surprisingly
But even if you dont get vicious Skewer
Its still ludicrous
Its 60 base damage
old rivet
What i usualy do is just play whot the one that has the ´10% darknes
hard holly
With the return portion always (or almost always) backstabbing
heavy solstice
yeah me too
hard holly
And with special upgrades giving higher % upgrades than regular attacks
heavy solstice
just random weapons
hard holly
Even when I didnt have a good special upgrade
A single special still often hit for 300-400 damage
Shield and sword, while not bad, really struggle to ever reach that level
heavy solstice
I think you’re too focused on the spear special 
hard holly
Sword might be able to with Worldsplitter
old rivet
Shield whit the fast charge upgrade is good too
old rivet
Most fun upgrade by far
heavy solstice
being able to special and attack at the same time is also great
hard holly
Personally while I do like playing shield with that upgrade
The problem is that thats the only really good upgrade
hard holly
3 upgrades are on shield special which Id rather never pick up
Noice
Enjoy your free run
turbid needle
and the spear is actually doing better
heavy solstice
@old rivet anyway for heat 60 I’ll just increase the enemy’s damage and keep darkness at infinite
turbid needle
then when i last tried it
hard holly
I mean that build did replace Bow as the speedrun build for a reason
turbid needle
but i will have to see if i actually like it for bosses...
old rivet
@heavy solstice Ill try that if i fail the run that i m currently in
heavy solstice
godspeed
heavy solstice
and for the record, I know what I’m talking about 
I completed all heat challenge alright
turbid needle
1-2 attacks?
depends on the boons
anyways
so far
i like it
thought i still have much more fun with shield
wanton raptor
Can anyone recommend an easy 60 heat toil ?
turbid needle
dang
taking back my words
the spear is the best weapon
i actually got my new record
with 21 mins
and then my game crashed...
hopefully it saved kek
hard holly
Fun fact: World record for in-game time with spear is under 6 minutes
hard holly
I think they use a specific seed to guarantee the right hammer and boons early on
turbid needle
pffft
turbid needle
that's not much fair is it tho
plush blaze
What about it isn't fair
turbid needle
well using a specific seed
hard holly
But yeah, I got sub-10 minutes with just a normal run with spear
Til then fastest I got was 10:30
hard holly
F
serene isle
Wow. I slow play Hades a lot
analog sail
When speedrunning a roguelike you gotts use a specific seed, otherwise the time varies wildly
turbid needle
i'ma go play Hollow Knight actually
hard holly
Honestly I did play slowly for a while too, getting 16-20 minute times
But after a point you just subconciously optimize rooms
turbid needle
but how much time have you spent on the game?
plush blaze
Also even within a specific seed there's plenty of variation in the RNG of the run
serene isle
Well to be fair my times are all 30 minutes
But that's because I camp the hydra fight so bad
turbid needle
i am surprised there isn't any meme channel here
hard holly
I think I had played it for a couple of weeks when I got sub-16 times
lyric wolf
Supergiant, you guys are doing great work. I'm blown away at how many valid playstyles there are, and I've thoroughly enjoy exploring them. You've a really tight game. Looking forward to experiencing more as it develops!
bright verge
How can I meet sleep's brother again? Missed his trinket the first time
lost rose
He'll appear randomly in normal combat rooms
bright verge
Darn, I've finished 4 runs since we first met and he still didn't show up :(
limber grail
Look out for the room getting greenish
wet tartan
What do the different wreath colors on room previews mean?
vagrant mirage
Something about dated authority I think
edgy thunder
hi all - are all the trinkets unlockable at this point? I have 2 that I am missing and fairly certain I've gifted all NPCs (except for the 2 new Fury sisters)
woeful stirrup
Yes, they're all unlockable.
radiant night
some trinkets you need to gift multiple times for
woeful stirrup
edgy thunder
ah - thank you for the heads up
woeful stirrup
All of them except one (Pierced Butterfly) should be on this page.
errant narwhal
zomffin im pretty sure all of them you get at the first gift?
woeful stirrup
Pierced Butterfly being Thanatos' keepsake.
lyric wolf
I don't know if these are still in the game, but I know last patch whenever you started a game, sometimes an animation would play, Hades would say something, and a relevant word would appear (Such as "Family"). I've had it happen a couple times with different words
Do those do anything?
pastel jolt
they don't do anything! they're called remembrances; they're framed as zag recalling something hades has said to him in the past
lyric wolf
thanks!
cerulean orchid
I'm still of the mindset that if you get the names of all of them and take the first letters it'll spell out something stupid, memey, but also fatal to anyone that actually deciphers it
graceful bough
Woo. Dealt 746 damage in a single hit in the current build. Pretty impressive.
jade estuary
@graceful bough what was your build?
graceful bough
Divine Flourish + Skull Earring + Deadly Reversal
Combined with Triple Bomb? Daaaaang did I wreck house.
cerulean tusk
What do?
https://i.imgur.com/2TWxYEw.jpg
atomic panther
Hammer
shadow copper
i hate the rooms where u have to pick one god over the other i always feel so bad
cerulean tusk
But chaose is so good now! Free +102% special damage already: https://i.imgur.com/klik9jQ.jpg
pastel jolt
if you get vicious skewer on top of that....
cerulean tusk
Meh, I'm already doing 150 x2 per throw, one-shotting pretty much anything already, vicious skewer would only help vs bosses and those flask-throwing jumpy guys.
Expolding Launcher or Multi Skewer could be fun, though.
cerulean tusk
dash, wait like a 5th of a second after dash input, then fire. It will charge much faster.
What a let down :( https://i.imgur.com/UIKHhXo.jpg
pastel jolt
noooooo
cerulean orchid
Does anyone know if the knockback of the shield's attack has been increased?
tiny pollen
So, is there a better initial upgrade for an Abyssal Rail run than Chain Lightning on the attack?
cerulean tusk
I really like poseidon's push on it.
high pulsar
I rather like Dionysus attack on the Rail, since you can build up stacks really quickly.
cerulean tusk
Good look for Supergiant.
tiny pollen
The purple looks super sick on the attack too.
woeful stirrup
Aphrodite and Ares are the only bad ones with it. Since Aphrodite's effect doesn't need to be refreshed that often and Ares' curse can't trigger that fast.
plucky oxide
There's that new Ares boon though
If already cursed, attacks increase the amount of damage the next curse will deal by 7, or something like that.
kind fiber
I think its attacks on a cursed target increase the damage of the curse by 10
I think 10 was a weak version so I don't know if it would ever show up with less value than 10
plucky oxide
It's a neat idea. I might try it out later to see how good it feels.
kind fiber
Its weird IMO
tiny pollen
Hmm. What's a good special to put on the Abyssal cast?
er, the special
I was thinking Aphro or Ares
kind fiber
Ares isn't a boon you would typically take on high attack speed weapons, and the boon incentivizes high attack speeds
Which one is Abyssal?
tiny pollen
Grenade.
kind fiber
I'd say Athena's
Athena has absurdly high % damage increases
Much more valuable than Ares when you get the tri grenade upgrade, or when you get the % damage increase from Chaos
tiny pollen
I'm already locked out of tri-grenade, but I see what you mean
kind fiber
Aphro, just isn't a good choice for it at all
woeful stirrup
It's a neat idea but worthless with the rail attack because the curse only triggers when you stop shooting (unless you can add to the damage even without retriggering the curse, which would imply shoot once, stop, then shoot a lot and stop to deal a ton of damage, but I don't think that's how it works)
cerulean orchid
Athena or Poseidon for that ridiculous +200% special damage
woeful stirrup
Poseidon is quite worthless on the special if you've got the tri grenade (well, unless you're really good at predicting where the knockback is gonna send the enemy)
kind fiber
I tried poseidon, it didn't work well with the tri grenade as one grenade would push the enemies away from the other grenades
cerulean orchid
Oh with the triple?
kind fiber
Yeah
tiny pollen
Arty on tri grenade does sound neat
kind fiber
Artys a consideration, I don't think it has particularly high scaling tho
Crit damage generally leads to more overkill and without a significantly higher overall damage value will generally be alot more inconsistant
Also, crits are often terrible against armor since armor represents a cap on your damage output for heavier slow attacks like the grenade
jade estuary
when people say they select seeds to do speed runs
to get the right combos
how do you do it?
woeful stirrup
I don't think you can choose your seed, but if you just reset mid-run, you'll keep the same one, so if you know there's been good choices, you could try doing better I guess?
jade estuary
ah interesting
I've tried giving up when I get a terrible hammer upgrade in the first room only to find it's the same lol
So it's some sort of persistent seed i guess
undone pond
so uh the exploding arrow thing....... does it feel op to anyone else?
jade estuary
whats that ^
forest marsh
Not at all, in fact it's one of my least favourite Bow upgrades 🙃
jade estuary
Still can't beat bow lol
plucky oxide
Any hammer upgrade is amazing with the right boons to support it!
pastel jolt
twin shot 
literally just completed a run with twin shot and some horrible mishmash of boons
plucky oxide
Is there any hammer upgrade that people feel worse off for having taken? Like, as a standalone hammer upgrade, if you remove the concept of 'alternatives' that you could have taken, is there a hammer upgrade that can make you worse off? I think there's a few situational ones.
The shield ricocheting up to 6 targets can increase the return time on it by a LOT if you're only fighting a few enemies at a time.
Same with the ricochet spear special upgrade.
woeful stirrup
Cluster Bomb.
kind fiber
Yep
woeful stirrup
It makes the rail special useless.
kind fiber
Its only powerful in the situation where you have more than 2 grenades overlapping and that limits your ability to place them in an extreme way
plucky oxide
I think cluster bomb is awesome
Great boss rushing tool
Stand where the enemy WILL be, point at your feet, and then look as appealing as possible so they'll walk into that spot. Absolutely terrible against some mobs.
kind fiber
sure, but the tier 1 bosses are mobile enough to reduce your accuracy with it, and the hydra boss isn't difficult enough for this option to be worth it when typical opponents are difficult enough
plucky oxide
Nah. T1 all have telegraphs. Play in the corners of the arena. Meg runs to you, and can dash into the corners that you occupy. Same with the others.
kind fiber
You have to massively predict them to hit with it
woeful stirrup
Even if you do that, Pause, 12 ammo of your regular attack will deal nearly the same amount of damage as all 5 bombs hitting, without requiring you to plan anything or take any risk.
kind fiber
like, before they start their animations
woeful stirrup
And it is way to slow to be of any use against the T1 boses, as shooting the moment they telegraph their attack will result in them moving away from their arrival point before they get hit.
kind fiber
Its usually not even worth the trouble
woeful stirrup
Exactly.
plucky oxide
Not really the hardest things to predict, from my experience. And hitting a cluster of those with an epic Athena upgrade feels sooo gooood. Definitely not viable with heat, for sure, but insanely fun and a change of pace. It's why I like shield retaliation builds, too.
woeful stirrup
You can do slightly higher damage than with your attack, if all 5 bombs hit and you have to take risks and plan way ahead for it to work. The potential amount of damage is not worth the trouble.
With triple bomb, you do higher damage with none of the hassle.
kind fiber
You lose massive functional differences for a moderate damage increase
plucky oxide
I have trouble with triple bomb due to the internal cooldown juggling. It also locks you into place for, effectively, three times as long. It's a trade off.
kind fiber
Sure, but its not like you are spending a 1/3rd of the time with clusterbombs as they require you to spend time moving into proper locations to actually be able to effectively deal damage with them
Spending more time with triple bombs makes sense since you can't spend 100% of your time firing grenades like that normally
plucky oxide
For some enemies, yes. But meg always comes to you. Many enemies do! The only furie stage where you can't be as effective dps-wise is the projectile stage.
harsh coral
i think i just encountered a bug where do i go? it randomly deleted my progress
kind fiber
On the main menu theres a bug reporting form near the top I believe
kind fiber
my mistake its not there
forest marsh
Press F10 in-game
harsh coral
ok
kind fiber
Yeah thats right, sry bout that
harsh coral
o well it only slowed me by a minute at least it was not a loss of a 24 hour account
i was almost maxed
royal zodiac
The other day my save files got moved randomly, same thing might have happened to you
night pasture
I was today years old when I learned you can fire the rail special while reloading
upbeat junco
@turbid needle yea I agree with what you said in feedback, with the bow you get the 200% damage in done in an area effect at the cost of charge up speed, whereas with the spear, your just throwing the spear and it does 20% extra damage at the cost of losing half your damage from pulling the spear back to you and getting the backstab
upbeat junco
yea
turbid needle
high risk high reward
but the spear just feels like the same perk but faster and less damage
i feel the spear should get something else
like maybe a dual spear
or like idk.. maybe pin enemies to walls?
upbeat junco
that'd be like the twin shot on the bow tho
turbid needle
yeah but if you gonna steal something from other perjks
i rather have twin spears
then an exploding spear
if they wana do it like that
im also down for something completely different
upbeat junco
actually pinning enemies could be a good idea, you pin an enemy to a wall and then attack them while their pinned. Could make some awesome builds
as well as a new playstyle
pearl willow
admittedly i dont have much damage yet in tartarus but post patch thanatos just rekt me like 18 to 9 or something ><
open geode
so, is it normal that i can't seem to trigger the back attack anymore on the hydra with the spear recall?
on any of the heads?
upbeat junco
do any of you think that maybe alecto and tisiphone are too hard for the first boss in a run?
because compared to meg they just seem significantly harder
lost rose
I'm not sure they show up on a first run
I thought they were "after you beat meg x number of times they start showing up" bosses
open geode
i think they only fhow up after u beat meg a couple of times, yes
upbeat junco
Well maybe, but even then I think im competent at Hades and then having what I would consider a boss fight at around the same difficulty as the hydra as the first boss is a bit weird
lost rose
My understanding of it is skewed since I can pretty easily beat the hydra now (on no heat runs) but i feel like alecto and tisi are only difficult because they're new, like
night pasture
I don't mean to be the "git gud" type but after a few runs against each I actually find the sisters to be easier than meg
lost rose
i'm already getting the hang of their fights
it just takes time, like with all the bosses
night pasture
that may be just because it takes longer to take care of meg, though, because you need to be wiping up mobs periodically
upbeat junco
yea I get the gist of their fights as well and I need to practice them more. I'm getting the hang of tisiphone but then alecto i'm having trouble getting the hang of her
night pasture
this may be skewed because I've literally gotten meg for my past 5 runs in a row
upbeat junco
but even still to me at least the same harder than meg
open geode
i beat both on the first time i encountered them
upbeat junco
yea i did as well
open geode
but lost like half my hp, like 70
pastel jolt
i keep trying to fight them the same way i fight meg and getting my ass handed to me as a result
open geode
i just kite them to heck and back
turbid needle
@pastel jolt these bosses dont even function like meg, why would you apply the same tactic?
pastel jolt
because they look like meg and i literally only started playing the update today so i went in totally blind?
upbeat junco
wtf I just beat hydra and while on the death screen a female voice said "The fury of Olympus"
any idea who that could be?
errant narwhal
athena
lost rose
ahhh maybe an audio glitch with athena wrath
upbeat junco
maybe
night pasture
yeah, sometimes your wrath (?) god will yell on exit from that room
lost rose
worth reporting
errant narwhal
^
turbid needle
i had an audio glitch at the house where ||Alecto|| yellled redblood after i died to her
errant narwhal
i think i encountered something like that too, yeah
lost rose
hey maybe this is just me but have y'all noticed that the unlocking sounds for the boats in asphodel have gotten way quieter?
i thought maybe i was just misremembering and i know some are quiet bc they're far away
but it used to be i could hear them faintly even from across the stage and it let me know which way to go to get out
upbeat junco
I noticed that when fighting Alecto she calls you redblood because you bleed "like a mortal" does that mean that gods don't bleed? Also if I remember correctly, doesn't Meg sink into a pool of blood when she dies, whereas Alecto and Tisi burst into fire and bats
autumn tapir
meg's blood looks kinda black
similar to the wretches and such
I think gods bleed ichor? which is all golden?
idk it's been a while since I've read percy jackson greek mythology
lost rose
I thought that was an interesting comment too! It could be that ||zag is actually a demigod - the olympians have called him half-god, demigod, etc., but they think his mother is Nyx, so i'd assumed that they just didn't think of Nyx as a "proper goddess". it could be that persephone herself is only a demigod here, and so her child with Hades is a demigod.||
turbid needle
@lost rose ||maybe persephone is human, making zag part human part god, there's numerous stories of zeus meddling with mortals , that's how we got hercules, maybe zag is the underworlds version of that||
lost rose
||if that were the case, zag probably would've outlived her, and she'd be dead and in the underworld - which Nyx says for sure she isn't||
that's just spec though, you know. it could just be that his blood just is Like That, haha
woeful stirrup
Theory: Zag is the God of Blood, that's why he bleeds like a mortal.
lost rose
zag is the blood, thanatos is the darkness, blood and darkness back at it again at krispy kreme
turbid needle
oof
that sounds too legit
actually Tanth is Death, Zag is the blood and nyx is darkness
lost rose
darkness is technically a god too, but in a "place personified" kind of way
Erebus
we have erebus as an area here, like how we have chaos the area and chaos the deity
idk if they're planning on including erebus as a deity too or not
lost rose
yeah but i mean they have been chipping away at the story and adding new characters as they go too
so
anyways this is kinda off-topic for gameplay gkjdfgfd those are just my two cents on the redblood thing
turbid needle
we should get a #hades-lore room
lost rose
that's spoilers channel 😛
turbid needle
spoilers is also game related
lost rose
sorry, i mean the distinction is between gameplay - combat, strategy, boons, etc. - and more general conversation
people like to talk about strategy a lot which is why we made this channel just for that ^^
errant narwhal
things tend to bleed into each other but lore discussions are largely spoilery or could easily turn spoilery, soo
lost rose
report with F10 please!
plucky oxide
Got that new boon. Didn't dramatically change my playstyle, but it was fun doing a mixed-damage build
I imagine sword flurry would be perfect for it, or just curse special + bow + hammer double projectiles + duo boon. That'd be neat.
plucky oxide
Dire Misfortune
turbid needle
Pressure points quad
Squad*
that's an Ares legendary iirc
the dire misfortune one
plucky oxide
Pressure points is probably my favorite boon
so so so so fun to give weird damage proc's the ability to crit
shadow copper
pressure points is the best boon ty artemis
plucky oxide
hahaha thats so funny, i love that
wet tartan
You gotta point, but oversights sound like they belong in feedback not bugs?
turbid needle
idk..
feeback is more suggestive this feels like it shouldnt be there
or shouldnt interract that way
so it's more a bug
wet tartan
They shouldn’t act that way, but neither component is strictly broken
plucky oxide
feels like an f10 to me, not something that needs public attention, per say
turbid needle
but it also shouldnt apply to lava because it's not your damage
wet tartan
Idk this feels blurry
turbid needle
as the boon states any damage YOU deal has chance to be critical
Lava isnt coming from you
it's a hazardous biome
plucky oxide
its definitely something that the devs should discuss, but if it feels like a bug, f10 it. oversights happen. either way, its bringing attention to something the player thought wasn't entirely correct. if it was purely about balance, than yes, it would belong in feedback, methinks
turbid needle
or in this case biome trap
yeah, this would mean that with the same logic Traps could crit
but that's not YOUR damage
wet tartan
Hm, then maybe I’m misgiven on the feedback and bugs system
turbid needle
idk.. this feels indeed a bit blurry
it's a suggestion but also a bug
because i also dont have an idea if this was intended to work this way or not
it's kinda hard to say where suggestions begin and bugs ends
and vice versa
wet tartan
Yeah
turbid needle
yeah kinda
forest marsh
Spoilers are fine in here
shadow copper
spoilers are okay in here
forest marsh
You can say Hydra all you want in this channel 
forest marsh
That would only be in #h1-discussion @turbid needle
turbid needle
wrong tag lol
formal hill
Oooh
shadow copper
get up on the hydras back kh2 flashbacks
formal hill
But yeah is anyone else having major lag w the hydra since they added the new heads in?
turbid needle
yup
shadow copper
i’ve only gotten lag with alecto
plucky oxide
When I saw that Artemis' legendary didnt specify that it wasn't just attacks that spawned projectiles, I filed an f10. The devs saw it and others like it, and made the change. No doubt the devs saw your report on the lava, and had/are going to have a conversation about what to do. This feels like miscommunication, be it from programming, text description of boon, or something else. Regardless, it doesn't feel like a feedback post.
A feedback post would likely be "I'm not sure lava should proc random crits from artemis. in other words, I don't think environmental skills should get boosted damage because artemis' boon doesn't contextually boost the mortality/severity of the environment AROUND zag"
Either way, its a way to get to the same point
turbid needle
especially with dio and zeus wrath
formal hill
I've lost so many runs to lag ):
forest marsh
If you are experiencing excessive frame drops, consider reporting in-game with F10
formal hill
I've reported a handful of them
forest marsh
This helps the devs know where they need to work on optimizing
formal hill
I usually play while streaming w discord and it used to be running fine, I think it's mostly-- I do exit the launcher after launching the game
The only thing I usually have open is discord and Hades
Used to run fine, no lag at all
Since the patch it's been lag city
I'll have to test without a call running
turbid needle
Streaming w discord can result in allot of lag
i had the same problem
do you have nitro
turbid needle
otherwise you need to run it at the lowest resolution in discord
formal hill
Oof.
turbid needle
because Nitro is optimized for streaming
formal hill
Ah
turbid needle
yeah i found that out too
formal hill
God that blows
turbid needle
had to share my path of exile plays with someone
formal hill
Oh well
turbid needle
i mean
formal hill
I'll play with it on lowest
turbid needle
if you can handle it
formal hill
Well test it on lowest xD
turbid needle
or just get nitro
formal hill
Unfortunately I don't have the means to ^^;
It's not that high of a priority
It's weird BC I like, stream stream it, and not screenshare
I'll do some fiddling though, I was just wondering
Because it used to be fine?
formal hill
But with the new wave enemies, the new heads, it's just... Not fun to play atm 😅
Just BC of lag
turbid needle
only hydra fights depending on my boons kinda can get disruptive and laggy
formal hill
But it's early access, so I knew what I was getting into!
It's to be expected to have bugs and lags, it's a wip
S'what we're here for ^^
atomic panther
Did they update the hydra fight to make the second wave have 6 heads or is this a bug
lost rose
Sounds like a bug
atomic panther
I F10'd it just to be sure
pearl willow
man thanatos wrecked me again 24-6 lol
plain wren
so have people figured out how to get the duo boons yet?
lost rose
There are prerequisite boons you need to have, and then if RNG is in your favor, you can get the duo boon god later
I'm not sure anybody has made a comprehensive list
I could probably find them in the scripts but I don't really want to spoil myself on other stuff ;;
atomic panther
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473685187780411405/556358280151171082/unknown.png
Room 1 Wrath is not a good start, but I made it work
plain wren
lol
lost rose
Ok I have all the requirements, though some of them I'm not sure what they correspond to so I need a hot second to figure those out gfdkjhgfd
alright here we go
gonna see if this formatting is readable lol
-Zeus/Dio Duo
+To get from Zeus:
need either Dio Cast or Defense (High Tolerance)
+To get from Dio:
need either Zeus Attack, Special, Cast, or Dash; AND either Dio Cast, Wrath, or Defense
-Ares/Aphrodite Duo
+To get from Ares:
need either Aph Dash, Cast, or Attack; AND either Ares Attack, Special, or Revenge
+To get from Aphrodite:
need either Aph Dash, Cast, Attack, or Special; AND either Ares Attack, Special, or Revenge
-Artemis/Ares Duo
+To get from Artemis:
need Ares Cast
+Can't get from Ares
-Artemis/Athena Duo
+To get from Artemis:
need either Athena Attack, Dash, or Special
+Can't get from Athena
-Aphrodite/Dionysus Duo
+To get from Aphrodite:
need either Dio Attack, Special, or Dash; AND either Aph Dash, Cast, Attack, or Special
+To get from Dionysus:
same requirements
-Poseidon/Zeus Duo
+To get from Poseidon:
need either Poseidon Attack, Special, Cast, or Dash; AND either Zeus Attack, Special, Cast, or Dash
+To get from Zeus:
same requirements
sure
@plain wren
if anyone has evidence of receiving duo boons i said you can't get from a god...from that god....let me know because i could be reading scripts wrong gkdfjgfd
lost rose
already found a mistake oops. fixed
plain wren
nice
plain wren
oh the way you have worded it is a bit weird
make it seems like you get the boon from the other god
lost rose
hmmm I can add another column
plain wren
like to get the zeus/dio boon you should have this dio boon that comes from zeus
i meant right above
plain wren
which wiki you putting the info on?
lost rose
it's that wiki
plain wren
oh that is good
lost rose
I'm just not editing the boons page
if you go to a god's page and scroll through the boons section, that's where I'm working rn
plain wren
ok how you have it on individual god pages is good
lost rose
i didn't even know there was just a generic boons page
plain wren
but with the formatting from posting in this channel is a bit weird
lost rose
i'm a fraud
lost rose
yeah, I'm getting around to it
plain wren
with more in-depth info on the god pages like the other boons
i'm not trying to rush you, sorry if it seems that way
lost rose
I don't know how to edit the larger boon tables on the god pages so I'm just adding the pre-req lists
I also can't upload images because I don't have an account and don't wanna make one
plain wren
you can use a twitch account if you have one
plain wren
I just did
lost rose
oh, sweet
plain wren
on the general boons page
copper berry
You mean for duo boons, I assume
copper berry
Yeah usually if there are two prereq's for the boons, both gods can offer it, but if it is only one prerequisite just a single offering
lost rose
ah well it's good enough for now, and the details are on the individual god pages, so
plain wren
as i thought the ares+artemis boon is very strong
plucky oxide
That lvl 7 boon 👀
20% crit chance on dash attack
95% damage on dash attack
179% on attack
thank you kindly, rng
lost rose
woof
turbid needle
How you managed to use poseidon attack with the knockback? GG anyway !
plucky oxide
I've been trying to get better at using lava as a weapon. Choosing knockback on sword means you're going all-in on either world splitter, dash attack, or sword special. Every now-and-again I put zeus' trinket on when starting a build on sword or shield, to try and get better at using lava offensively. Zeus' boons are basically forsaking multi-hitting moves. The double edge was taken for the crit chance, not the double hit. However, the double hit effectively deleted each hydra head in 2 dash attacks, if rng allowed.
As soon as they introduce some sort of high-health flying target, knockback becomes far less effective. (looking at you, big dusa head)
Good thing you can't really knock her back, though. Glad they changed that.
rich comet
so, ive got the zeus trinket right here
equipped it in asphodel
and my two choices are either hammer or aphrodite
is that intended?
pastel jolt
hold left trigger, what does it say next to the keepsake?
or, uh, tab? for keyboards?
rich comet
the next boon will be from zeus
and it has the 1 thing on the right
however
my next boon is from someone who ISNT zeus
pastel jolt
hmmm
rich comet
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/506914501963284481/556420722277351424/unknown.png got a screenshot right here
checked the entire chamber, no other doors
should i report this as a bug?
pastel jolt
ah, it looks like there may be some strangeness with trial of the gods, then
that's not an aphrodite room, that's an aphrodite/dionysus trial
f10 it anyways!
pastel jolt
i know that they changed it so seeing a boon room of that god and then not picking it no longer burns the charge on the keepsake, but maybe there's some weird interactions with trial rooms
rich comet
i guess ill go through the trial room first and see if the next boon after that is gonna be a zeus boon before reporting it as a bug
oh wait the game wont be unpaused until i either close the bug reporter or report it as a bug
plucky oxide
the trinkets only effect which boon appears next in a mono-room
trial of the gods is based upon the boons you already have, if i recall
rich comet
yeah, i just saw that my next boon room is with zeus
copper berry
Yeah it doesn't mess with trials.
rich comet
and i reported a bug that wasnt actually a bbug
copper berry
I am sure they get those a bunch, it isn't a big deal 😃
woeful stirrup
In my current run, it's Chaos Gate madness. There's been one in room 21, one in room 22 and one in room 23.
pastel jolt
i just got the meg fight for the first time since the patch and i didn't realise how much i missed her ;3;
old rivet
How to i play against the new bosses
I just dont understand them
Maegra is like a piece of cake and the other 2 are stronger then hydra
shadow copper
are you using the heat pact
old rivet
Sometimes i use it sometimes i dont but if i do i always die on them prety much
And even when i dont use it they get prety close to killing me
old rivet
When i started plaiyng i always died to maegra but after i figured her out she was ez but i cant seem to figure out these new bosses
light aspen
i was like super overwhelemed by them on my first try
but once youve done it a couplke times you do figure out their patterns
and then theyll be manageable like meg
tho pointy teeth i cant remember names
is the hardest for me, havent quite got her figured yet
old rivet
The rage one or the one that only says murder?
shadow copper
alecto? 
turbid needle
does distant memory affect the dmg if you kill enemies from range?
and if it does, does anyone know the range of it?
old rivet
I wish there was an option of godmode or sandbox so i could practice against them
proud storm
Hades' Mod
turbid needle
i wish people come up with mods for the game
old rivet
mods whould be prety cool
old rivet
Like a skin ?
turbid needle
no no no
well yes
but you can also use her attacks
like your dash would work the same way but also hit enemies
old rivet
That whould be a little op
turbid needle
your special would be maybe the airstrike
and the charge would be her charge
well of course it would be
that's why it's a mod
old rivet
Well cant argue whit that
turbid needle
but then someone would have to model a normal attack for her
old rivet
I'd like a mod where when you transform into a spinning blade whit wrath it makes the pacman sound
Prety simple but funny af
turbid needle
i'd want a mod where you can attack in the house of hades
so i can brake those big pots of coin
coins*
old rivet
Nha i'd use to teach a lesson to hades
old rivet
Well one can dream
turbid needle
why doesn't hades just put a big barricade at the exit of Tartarus?
IF he doesn't want Zag getting out
or just put a sign "exit" leading to a pit of lava
old rivet
Or just bloack the window he always gets away whit
copper berry
Because if he did that, it would validate Zag.
Hades has mentioned the impossibility of escape many times, so if he boards up the exit it'll make him look silly.
midnight cliff
Quick question do I keep the unlocks when I use the infernal skulls in the dungeon forever?
or is it a one time thing
25 infernal skulls for a one time use seems steep otherwise
midnight cliff
Alrighty then thanks for the reply
midnight cliff
That broker is scamming me most of the times anyway
copper berry
Why do you think he is in Hades?
lost rose
That's the point, haha
midnight cliff
apart from 3 ambrosia for 10 keys was worth it
copper berry
Also even if you spend the heat, you can't ever lose it y'know? It's the law of conservation of energy :^)
prime blade
Shield? Never really tried to play with shield
prime blade
prime blade
Rail + Blight strike is a hell of a combo, I should say
safe trellis
Okay, that was... something.
https://imgur.com/a/UY6HH1n
prime blade
Oh
shadow copper
woah
prime blade
That will definitely hurt
safe trellis
That Divine Flourish got to level 4 right before I got to the Hydra, too.
safe trellis
Oh, I know. Rest in peace, Vicious Skewer. Your wimpy kid Vic jr. will have to take it from now.
wintry moon
Assault Flight is Fun
old rivet
What weapon do you guys think is the worst one
atomic panther
I can't speak to worst, because so much of this game relies on skill and getting into the rhythm of a weapon or playstyle, but my least favorite is probably the Rail
old rivet
Mine is also The rail but it has got a little better after being able to walk while reloding
upbeat junco
I really like the rail but it just isn't as good compared to other builds/weapons
wintry moon
Yeah I really wanna like the rail too
calm sable
Worst is the shield IMO
I actually like the Rail a lot more after the changes, reloading on the move and not having to spam the button for damage is nice
had this cool on-hit effect win yesterday
it might also be that I just have absolutely no idea how to play or build shield which I think is more likely 
indigo compass
for me the rail feels worse after the changes , i miss being able to spam my full ammo from close up and dash away, also dashing after an attack often doesent happen if u press dash too fast after an atk
hard holly
Worst weapon is hard to say, but theyre all fine
Probably shield or rail though
Rail needs specific boons to function and has mediocre hammer upgrades
Shield is more flexible with the boons, but has even fewer good hammer upgrades
Id say shield, just because Rail special hits like a truck early on and is still good to fire-inbetween reloads later on, whereas shield special is actually useless
mint leaf
I'd also say shield. It's not terrible, it just needs a lot of re-balancing
old rivet
Funny how the most fun weapon ( in my opinion) is the worst one
hard holly
Not even a lot, tbh
Its mainly the hammer upgrades and the special that need work
Maybe put a bit of damage into its normal attack
old rivet
Shield special is so bad it hurts
mint leaf
Then I'd say Sword was the worst pre-Chaos update, and Rail was the worst pre-current update.
hard holly
Eh, Id disagree, sword was always good, just hard to use
And Rail was still fine with Dio
hasty mauve
Sword is always bae
mint leaf
My personal issues with Rail were kind of what a couple of other weapons had as problems. The attack felt weak and aiming was kind of clunky, the special only seemed decent with specific upgrades/boons, and aiming the special when you need to run around and you're getting overwhelmed in a room? That's still an issue even now.
mint leaf
If I played keyboard/mouse, I think I'd have an easier time with it, but no matter what button layout I put together on a gamepad, I can't make it work for me in a way that doesn't feel super imprecise and clunky.
Meanwhile, the rapid fire upgrade or 5 spread 'shotgun' upgrade are both excellent when paired with Dio or Artemis. I did my fastest run ever with a Dio shotgun build.
hollow totem
Sheild special is fine
Just not the best
The sword special has been buffed to the point where it feels really good
mint leaf
I've tried to make a shield special build and I dunno if I'm just using a horrible combo or something, but I'm not a fan. :s
hollow totem
It basically hard Carries in tartarus cause of how safe it is and heavily falls off in aspho
But if you get an ares special epic
It holds its weight
mint leaf
As for sword, I disagree about it being hard to use pre-Chaos update. (I don't think any weapon is. They've done a good job with having incredibly low skill floors with varying height for skill ceilings, and I consider sword's ceiling low.) It was actually my 2nd weapon after shield back then. But to me, it just didn't feel as efficient.
(Then depending on who you talk to, some people thought spear was worse at that time. I sort of agree, but only in terms of how spear felt to use.)
hollow totem
Nah way jah
Spear always has been at minimum top 2 weapon
Even when it slightly fell out of favor due to quick temper triple shot bow being dumb
But damn
I miss quick temper
mint leaf
i can't speak for it in terms of efficiency back then, cuz I didn't test it heavily at the time. I just think it didn't feel good to use back then, but that's just me.
hollow totem
Hmm
Idk I feel like overall the game just feels so much better
when it's not lagging
Loving the progress so far, would love and optimization patch or something.
It uses like 40% of my CPU
Seems pretty cpu and not gpu intensive
mint leaf
I agree. I mean, I liked it from the start, but you can definitely get a sense for what's getting locked down design-wise.
hollow totem
The duo boons are what I've been begging for
hard holly
The problem with shield special is that while its slightly safer than the non-sword specials (not by a whole lot, even), it is also muuuuuuuuuuuuch slower
And since bull rush is also just as safe
hollow totem
Uhh depends
hard holly
You just never have a reason to press that button
hollow totem
Cause if they cluster
You get your sheild back very quickly
But yeah bull rush is also really good
hard holly
True, but if they cluster, rail or spear special just eradicate them
Even sword special, actually
Oh and bow special I guess doesnt, but that one is mainly used to clear projectiles
mint leaf
I should try to get familiar with shield again. I've been staying away from it cuz my love affair with every other weapon has been great. XD
hard holly
But yeah, Shield Special is outclassed hard not just by the other specials
hollow totem
The new piercing bow special
hard holly
But by bull rush, a part of the same weapon kit
hollow totem
Hammer upgrade gives me life
mint leaf
The last time I used it, I tried to get in on the whole bull rush craze, but I had trouble adjusting to it.
hard holly
Also if you get sudden rush
There is no need to adjust
Just press that button
Let the speed flow through you
crystal edge
Anyone know if the damage effect of the butterfly keepsake stays if you switch keepsakes before Asphodel?
pastel jolt
i would assume it gets replaced
hard holly
Ive never actually checked
night pasture
It does not stay
crystal edge
Aw, that's a shame
old rivet
If you switch to collar then use the fountain you get more health
pastel jolt
and then you're stuck with the collar for the rest of asphodel
turbid needle
^
collar is the worst for aspho
i rather have coinpurse or like something like skull earing
or orpheus his trinket
old rivet
Whats the best trinket to switch to then ?
turbid needle
hmm in asphodel
probably the Black Shawl
healing is great
if you dont heated yourself to have no healig
pastel jolt
i always go skull earring after tartarus
lost rose
same
autumn tapir
I took a chaos boon that made me lose health when I attack
I reached the hydra
there's still 1 room left on the boon
turbid needle
skull earing is a trap tho
on more heat
yeah the chaos spawns are a bit too random
making you fight against a boss you cant attack because you'll lose health
autumn tapir
they should really either 1. not be able to spawn if there are not enough rooms 2. unveil automatically when you reach hydra
pastel jolt
it was patched so they would be much less likely to appear in the rooms preceding the hydra
personally i'm of the opinion that if you choose to take a chaos boon a couple rooms before a boss, and then the boss stomps you flat as a result, that's kind of on you for not checking what chamber you were in
autumn tapir
I feel like you shouldn't have to be checking which chamber you're in to make use of an upgrade, especially since it doesn't say how many chambers there are total
pastel jolt
there's also the consideration that later in the game's development, hydra won'tbe the end-point
yeah but the whole point is that you take a risk by taking the chaos boon. if you take a risk and don't like it, tough luck, deal with it (or do not, and die)
turbid needle
i once
autumn tapir
chaos boons are risk vs. reward
and in this situation, there is literally no reward
you lose health, have a crippling penalty, and feel cheated
pastel jolt
same, and i did it and felt rewarded because i had to use the rest of my kit
but that's the thing: surely there's a little bit of common sense involved in "hey, maybe i SHOULDN'T take this chaos gate. i might get choices i don't like and be stuck with Unpleasantness on the hydra"
autumn tapir
see but at that point there may as well not even be the option of a chaos gate if taking one at that point in the game screws you over 100% of the time
every other chamber reward or option benefits you either in your current run or future ones, while chaos gates too late don't do anything worthwhile
even troves or challenge rooms provide a benefit at the cost of "maybe you'll die"
pastel jolt
we're arguing in circles here
autumn tapir
yeah
tough tulip
I just want a new floor after hydra
autumn tapir
next update hype
turbid needle
atleast we are argueing 😃
woeful stirrup
@finite blaze Don't really understand the point of your feedback there. You say that you always pick the Gods' keepsakes and to change that you want to make them even better? Once you've fully upgraded the mirror, you've got plenty of chances of getting rare boons or higher. Changing the increased chance of that into what is essentially a small boon for that god is just making them more powerful.
Thanatos in this room.
I managed to kill one enemy.
His AOE attack covers a whole island 
hasty mauve
woeful stirrup
Armoured inferno-bombers and burn-flingers, too. So even more awful
turbid needle
Thant's scaling is so bad in Aspho
every enemy is armoerd
he just rolls over you
atomic panther
Yet another problem solved by World Splitter
light aspen
whats world splitter
turbid needle
i mean it allmost is a given you need armor shred
for aspho
if you run into Thant
wich would be nice
if we could maybe get more then 1 hammer
a run
atomic panther
World splitter is a hammer upgrade that replaces your attack pattern with a single chop that deals 100 damage