h1-builds-and-combat

[proud storm]

https://i.imgur.com/scd3Qo3.jpg

equally chaotic being https://i.imgur.com/c1vqNr1.jpg

[grand patrol]

ok im takin a closer look at his outfit and like....stylish

[proud storm]

hypnos sprite with his sleep mask on

[grand patrol]

yes

[proud storm]

gffdhHFDKJDH

[grand patrol]

wait fixed it

[lost rose]

hypnos, ur shades

[grand patrol]

snzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[worn owl]

Chaos just really likes blood donors

[grim egret]

Killed a hydra by all weapons today, hate sword 😡 👎

[vestal snow]

Really? The sword is easily my favourite

[icy edge]

My first hydra kill was sword

[glossy slate]

I have exactly one kill on sword and that was with World Splitter crit cheese

I see you about to pun on me Owen

[frosty pier]

...

You scared him off?

[glossy slate]

I am very intimidating

[hard holly]

Oh sorry, wasnt paying attention

... I dont think there is a pun to be made here tbh

I mean I could try and milk the sentence dry, but that would be rather stale

[copper berry]

That was such a reach that I almost want to ban you.

[hard holly]

Yeah, that wasnt my best work

But I had little to work with

[plush blaze]

[glossy slate]

I just walked into a shop and I'm 8 gold short of a hammer

Hello Darkness my old friend

[errant narwhal]

F

no gold pots? 😔

[copper berry]

Blue pots in Tartarus shops 😃

[glossy slate]

none T~T

[errant narwhal]

u got me there dino

[glossy slate]

hopefully passing it up won't remove it from the reward pool

[hard holly]

Unfortunately, it might

[copper berry]

It in fact does not.

I have had 3 different hammer appearances in a run, so it should just keep having the chance to spawn until you are marked as having had a hammer.

[glossy slate]

this run is doing its level best to screw me over

picked up the sword because why not

2 Hades challenge rooms in a row, both filled with nothing but a ton of armored louts

[hard holly]

Its more that

If you dont see a hammer

Youre guaranteed to see it at the end

If you see a hammer once and pass it

You arent

[glossy slate]

I just died to meg.

christ I'm rustier than I thought

[glossy slate]

you can get multiple revenge boons now?

https://i.gyazo.com/1750cc2c4a2387d545b4fc050d511b31.png

This will be fun

[hard holly]

You always could

Unlike other ones, they dont have any problematic overlap

[glossy slate]

well I finally got a second sword win

literally just facetanked the hydra while spamming attack

[hollow totem]

@glossy slate those suicide runs are the best

Man and when avenging gain was a thing

It was so dumb

[twilit narwhal]

you guys are your good gameplay

i only beat meg like 1 in 6 times

[errant narwhal]

you’ll get there!

it took me a long time to beat her every time

[proud storm]

practice makes perfect

or at the very least better

[turbid needle]

hello everyone... haven't posted here before but! i just beat hydra for the first time in like. 40 something runs? so i'm pretty happy about that^^

[proud storm]

go at ur own pace

[south comet]

congrats su!

[icy edge]

Avenging gain never seemed that poweful, at least not as much as the sword upgrade with lifesteal

[twilit narwhal]

40 runs, lol. I've got almost 100 runs, and i've only beaten meg like 6 times and only gotten to the hydra three times (and perished in each)

also, funny story

i was fighting this giant medusa head

and killed it, but also dashed immediately afterwards

[icy edge]

Any idea what kills you the most?

[twilit narwhal]

right into the lava because the screen did it's freezy thing

and died

@icy edge usually my own stupidityu

i'm pretty aggressive mostly

probably too aggressive

[icy edge]

Athena likes aggressive playstyle, if you want to double down

Poseidon really benefits from a cooler head if youre keen on trying the opposite

[twilit narwhal]

so, i tend to go poseidon (and REALLY aggressive) when i have a shield

like, super aggressive

i should probably be arrested for war crimes against the denizens of hell

[icy edge]

You have a gift... that is by far the most difficult loadout save maybe aphro spear

[twilit narwhal]

my favorite combo is shield + poseidon attack b uff + zeus special buff

and literally go toe-to-toe with everyone until they are dead

[icy edge]

Absolute lad

[twilit narwhal]

lol

[icy edge]

Keep experimenting

[twilit narwhal]

i am getting better at using the bow now, so tehre's that

it's still not as fun as the shield imo

[icy edge]

Everyone has a favorite

[twilit narwhal]

i still need so many darkness

[icy edge]

Blade takes a while to get going but its really satisfying with Zeus/Art

Shield is great for in your face chads, but really only plays well with athena and ares

Spear is ok with everyone but it likes being either extremely quick with attack and dash or extremely deliberate with special

Bow is for attack only, except maybe poseidon and aphro, the special is too slow

[tulip timber]

More and more I'm finding Poseidon on attack to be a liability. Chasing dudes everywhere makes me make more mistakes.

[icy edge]

Great on tartarus, way less so on asphodel unless you have an armor killing hammer

[tulip timber]

Yeah. The knockback gets a lot less predictable with all the jumping guys.

And everyone who doesn't jump floats.

Though double knockback legendary is still hilarious.

I think Aphrodite is the only legendary I haven't gotten to play with yet.

The others feel pretty good.

[twilit narwhal]

my favorite run had zeus lightning on attack and special, the zeus legendary

and i hit like 5 poms

or maybe 6

and zeus on my dash too

[tulip timber]

I think it's an interesting design choice that progression items (Darkness, Keys, Ambrosia) compete for run-specific items (Boons, Poms, Obols). Other games have done it that way, but I'm not sure if I like it.

I like enough about this game to overlook it, and it's absolutely a personal preference thing.

[twilit narwhal]

i'm still trying to get ambrosias and darkness (i unlocked everything with keys so far)

[tulip timber]

It's more fun in a given run to pick the thing that gives you more power or abilities. But opting that over something that will make future runs better is a tough, and not particularly fun choice for me.

[twilit narwhal]

i have played so many roguelites, that' im used to it by now

although sometimes i just go for the fun stuff

[crisp cloak]

i just see it as a way to have a progression mechanic and don't have too much powercreep in the run. you have to have dud rooms from a power progression point of view otherwise upgrades feel too insignificant and it is a great way to fill those holes

and with the inclusion of key costs for those challenge treasures it can even be useful in the run itself to get a key ( same goes for nyx's shawl and darkness)

[worn owl]

once I maxed out the dodges I stopped playing much attention to darkness/keys

because the other stuff just seems like really tiny improvements

[glossy slate]

alright so new rule for me

if Chaos offers anything that will damage me whenever I dodge

no matter how shiny the reward is, or how useless the other two are

Never take it

[night pasture]

Chaos doesn't kill your run

they merely provide the tools for you to kill your run yourself

[glossy slate]

I thought to myself

[grand patrol]

[glossy slate]

"Hell yeah, don't dash for a few rooms and I get a ton of health"

[lost rose]

kam can you chaosuwu react on that message

bless you

[glossy slate]

queue 3 straight rooms of armored louts

[grand patrol]

sometimes instead of helping you chaos likes delivering u as a present to enemies

its a gamble

[lost rose]

"let us change your father's perception of what is and isn't possible in his underworld"
"you made it so i got destroyed in that next room, that's exactly what he thought would happen!"
"not true, o son of hades. i am certain he's never seen someone get beaten so thoroughly before."

[glossy slate]

on an unrelated note, untouchable thrust plus Lightning Strike is hilariously effective

[worn owl]

https://i.imgur.com/MwNRZ5l.jpg
I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds

[cold oriole]

any thoughts on improving my sword hunter dash build? I pretty much just made Fiora in Hades lol https://imgur.com/a/ZUyR5G7

[forest marsh]

I would not take Hunter Dash if I was running Sword, so I'm not sure I can give you any advice for improving your attempts at it

Does it proc on both hits of Double Edge?

[manic ermine]

It doea

And you can later get artemis crit bonus multiplier

Shh

[forest marsh]

I can see how that would work, yeah

Seems pretty dependent on a narrow selection of boons to achieve it though

Have you tried it with Athena's Divine Strike instead of Artemis' Deadly Strike?

[cold oriole]

oh yeah

that was pure RNG getting that chain of perks

overall my dash attack was up to around 250 damage though

[forest marsh]

That sounds good, but I don't really have a benchmark for Sword dash attack. I know for bow on a decent run I'll have 400-800 easy on dash attacks, though, but bow dash has a much higher base damage than sword so that makes sense

[cold oriole]

i feel like its a really high skill cap build

that im honestly not good enough to fully utilize

but in theory you can just dance aruond someone hitting instant 250s

[forest marsh]

Ha ha yeah, I've never been a fan of sword dash attack, the thrust+knockback doesn't lend itself well to combos in my opinion

[cold oriole]

thats why dash is nice though

you literally dont attack after the dash

you dash every click

[forest marsh]

Fair point

[cold oriole]

its kinda like fiora in league of legends

[forest marsh]

I guess I'd just have to treat it like a bow dash attack

[cold oriole]

if thats any frame of ref

[forest marsh]

I don't know anything about LoL so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cold oriole]

well anyhow

i find that with auto aim on

[forest marsh]

Obviously it worked, 'cause you won!

[cold oriole]

you just have to have your cursor near them

and its a clean 2 hits

i defo wouldnt call it stronger than hunters bow

but im bored of that so i try to come up with zany alt builds to use XD

[forest marsh]

That's always fun

I enjoy just playing whatever has Dark Thirst and then right now I'm grinding keepsakes

[cold oriole]

fair enough

ive only ventured up to 15 heat so far

[forest marsh]

Bow is still my favourite though

Followed by spear

[cold oriole]

my favorite all time build is actually bow special

[forest marsh]

Heat for me will come after I've maxed out everything else, I think 😆

I'm still working on God's Pride and keepsakes, so it'll be a while before I get to Heat

[cold oriole]

whats gods pride again?

[forest marsh]

+% chance for Epic

[cold oriole]

ah yes

ive got 25% of the rare one

[forest marsh]

I think I have 4 or 5 points left to get

[cold oriole]

rn im trying to grind keys to unlock all of the heat options

im still like 30 away though x.x

[forest marsh]

I'm doing that too, but only incidentally

[cold oriole]

keys are def my focus :p

[forest marsh]

I have just the 25(?) heat one to unlock now I think

25 keys to unlock, I mean

[cold oriole]

fair enough

i need to grind more so i have stuff by the update x.x

[forest marsh]

I'm vee excited for the update

I just broke 100 runs the other day

[cold oriole]

ayy nice

i think im on 67?

[forest marsh]

Felt like a milestone 🙃

I would describe myself as having average ability in the game, I know others have maxed the mirror well before reaching 100 runs

[cold oriole]

oh yeah im not great either

this is the first roguelike ive got hours in

it took me 42 runs to kill my first hydra XD

[forest marsh]

Pretty much the same as me, I was at maybe... 45?

And first Meg was like 38 runs in 🙃

[cold oriole]

since then ive improved a lot tho

i got past meg early

[forest marsh]

Same

[cold oriole]

but kept wiping early in asphodel

[forest marsh]

To the feeling of improvement, I mean

[cold oriole]

ok you oughta try this bow build sometime though

double q projectiles

with posideon upgrade

[forest marsh]

Ah yes, the "boomstick" build

[cold oriole]

turns the walls and lava into your best friend

i call it

Tempest Archer

because im a huge nerd

[forest marsh]

I have doubts that I'll ever get to 120 heat runs though 😆

I could probably do 15 and 60 with enough time

[cold oriole]

oh god 120 gonna be a handful

i think im ready for 60

but i need to unlock more of the options

so i can dilute the pool

[novel stratus]

I really like the run to the hydra but i wonder if the difficulty isn't ramping up too high for just the second zone.

Thoughts?

[gloomy scroll]

I feel like it’s an appropriate scale for later into asphodel, but that it should probably start a little bit lower in difficulty. I think it’s either you have a killer run and you don’t notice it or you’re really struggling

[twilit narwhal]

I feel the same. My runs are either easy peasy straight to the hydra, or i don't make it far

[worn owl]

I felt the opposite

That boons, etc are going to be too insane if you add more levels

Because by the time you get to act 3 you are going to almost always get a broken build off

[novel stratus]

I usually only beat the hydra with a broken build and dash attacks. Just keeping up with everything on screen is also pretty difficult. Manageable and beatable but still difficult

[icy edge]

Keeping in mind that the longer zag goes the more boons and upgrades he gathers

Asphodel difficulty is fine

[worn owl]

about the only thing that feels unfair to me is how hard it is to see gorgon projectiles

[twilit narwhal]

especially where there are 4+ gorgons on the screen with witches

[grave cipher]

Zag has a limit on how many useful boons he can get tho. In runs where you have a lot of boons you already end up with things like money from Athena or other useless boons.

[night pasture]

I think they gave notice in feedback that they're going to tweak the gorgon projectiles, as well as the skullcrushers, who are frustrating to fight for different reasons

[vivid wasp]

Obviously, when they add another general area, the progression balance and opportunities will change. It just won't work as is.

[worn owl]

Yeah hopefully lower boon rate, higher pom rate

[mossy field]

thing is with higher pom rate, all you need is a good 1st boon and then you just kill the run. for example if you start a run with spear and you get the zeus lightning on basic attack early, the run will be a walk in the park if you upgrade it to +2 and further

you might stay with 2-3 boons to make sure you can keep upgrading the usefull one and you pretty much done

[icy edge]

This ^

Got epic athena attack as 1st boon, then like 4 poms, didnt even need anything else and eradicated hydra

[mossy crest]

I have gotten Spear Athena Special lvl 6 (started as epic), and poseidon bow attack level 7 (started as rare). You blow through so much so quick it would make high heat runs super easy.

[compact venture]

does give up seed the run?

[hollow totem]

I just no idea how boons will progress after zone 2

Cause you already have a boon for each type by then

cast, dash, special, normals

and prolly already have the secondaries

maybe they introduce transistor style upgrades

where you can add secondary effects

to each of the mains

[worn owl]

oof just had a run with just an atena boon and three poms before asphodel which normally would be okay but

I was using shield and the boon choices were dash, cast, special

I should have gone with dash instead of special

as it stands I decided to just stand in the fire because I hate this

[hollow totem]

Athena dash

Is some hot garabage if you arent ready for it

[atomic panther]

It takes getting used to, but so do the blade rift casts and those are ridiculous if given the right support

[worn owl]

better than the shield special

[icy edge]

Athena special on shield has no redeeming qualities

[hollow totem]

besides the greatest percentage increasse to damage

@atomic panther Blade rifts are amazing, and arent really hard to get used to tbh

they also dont screw over Dash attacks

[atomic panther]

The cast ones are

(Are hard to get used to. All blade rifts are amazing)

[hollow totem]

Ahh i misunderstood

[inland rover]

Question: Pretty new to the game, maybe this has been discussed, but i feel like combat, especially meg fight is MUCH improved if u can deflect, since u can parry incoming melees which is fun risky playstyle - also it really feels like deflect is almost obligatory against medusas (the ones who petrify). how about some easy to obtain deflect basic skill or passive item for people who enjoy this stuff. maybe just for the very first auto attack swing so you can't spam it but have to actually counter?

maybe im alone in this tho

[hard holly]

We had that, on shield

Used to have natural deflect, it was all kinds of busted

You can however use Athenas keepsake

[hollow totem]

Deflect is athena only

its pretty good

Prolly the best normal buff

[vast chasm]

Haven't played in a while but wasn't Aphrodite cast one cone of 6 shots instead of two?

[inland rover]

i didnt know that. but what about very limited deflect, just one swing every few seconds or so.... ah well, nevermind. thanks for the answer

[glossy slate]

they seem to have split up Aphro's cast, yeah

it definitely feels a lot better than before, especially with the armor changes

[worn owl]

you can also hide behind enemies who will take the gorgon's shots

that is if you can even see the shots

[turbid needle]

I beat 28 heat today because I got an epic Zeus attack boon in the first room

[errant narwhal]

dang, nice!!

[proud storm]

Zeus is the way to go

[nova flame]

do rare/epic boons numbers grow quicker with poms? or does it only affect the starting one? like epic is normal but lvl 3

[fervent quartz]

looking at the wiki, seems like they grow differently? https://hades.gamepedia.com/Zeus

[frosty pier]

No they dont. The only thing that "epic/rare" does it's starting numbers and nice frame around it

Each boon has it grows at exact amount, but they may vary

[fervent quartz]

oh, so 'rare' has a range of starting values that can be chosen

[nova flame]

but then it grows with the same speed, right?

[night pasture]

yes, pom applies the same increase regardless of the boon's initial rarity

[fervent quartz]

for most items a pom adds 40% of the base common variant. rare and epic are comparable to 1xpom and 3xpom respectively, i guess

the only exceptions are poseidon (knockback doesn't stack at all) and artemis (crit chance stacks at 25% of base variant, dash multiplier with 20%)

[atomic panther]

Artemis' Extra Cast buff is another exception

I don't know the exact numbers, but since it's in integers it can't be a 40% increase each time

[reef iris]

It can be rounded

[atomic panther]

True

[night pasture]

have the base rates for rate/epic boons ever been determined?

[proud storm]

the multipliers are in the wiki

[hard holly]

I think he means the base %chance for a boon to be rare or epic

That I believe has not been determined

[proud storm]

oh

yeah no

[pastel jolt]

[raises hand] i think it might be 10% rare and 5% epic as base

BoonData =
        {
            ForceCommon = false,
            RareChance = 0.10,
            EpicChance = 0.05,
            LegendaryChance = 0.35,
        },```

[proud storm]

t-that's cheating,,

[pastel jolt]

i mean, where do you think the wiki got the multipliers

;P

[night pasture]

thanks, that's exactly what I meant

appreciate it!

aside from legendary those are actually the values I would've guessed, ha

[worn owl]

Yeah I would have assumed legendary was higher

[manic ermine]

are these numbers mined or are there files I can just peruse

I do like number

[still pewter]

Can someone confirm for me if crit stacks with %dmg increases like athena?

[pastel jolt]

i mean i would assume it does because on a good bow run i can score crits for like 500 damage a pop and i don't think that's possible if it doesn't stack

[atomic panther]

It doesn't stack properly with backstab atm so probably not

Although that may just be a backstab glitch, because boons stack with bouling blood just fine

[copper berry]

It does indeed stack with Athena bonus damage.

And the problem with backstab is that it is very finicky about what damage it multiplies exactly. So it might be additive instead of multiplicative for the damage mod in some situations.

[atomic panther]

Yeah that's my experience. With the spear I got a backstab for 30, a crit for 45, then a backstab crit for 60

[copper berry]

Yeah the backstab just applies the weapon damage + any damage modifying attack boon, and then adds it to your critical bonus.

[atomic panther]

Hm :/

[copper berry]

So you end up with (WeaponDMG x attack mod) x 2 + (WeaponDMG x 2)

And then you have modifiers like Boiling Blood or Skull Earring which then take that new damage value and multiply it by 1.5x or 1.4x respectively.

[turbid needle]

Is it normal that Epic Dash Attack from Artemis (+217% dash damage) changes into 100% dmg adash attack after first POM ?

[worn owl]

It's a known bug

But it should be changing after leaving the room iirc

[turbid needle]

but once u upgrade the thing it stays at 120% and so on and so on

[worn owl]

Yes because the upgrades are separate from rarity

The problem is it becoming common

[hybrid kestrel]

finally beaten the hydra

with only curse of pain, thunder dash and heaven's vengeance. 🤦🏻

tho the curse of pain was epic

[turbid needle]

nice congrats c:

[high pulsar]

Does anyone have general tips for using the sword safely? I find it hard to avoid getting hit without the range of the bow and spear, or the shield's blocking.

[night pasture]

my best success with sword is using blood vial to get ares' attack boon and then cranking it, ao you only have to swipe once at enemies to apply damage

sticking around for a full combo tends to mean you're going to have a bad time, particularly once most enemies become armored

[pastel jolt]

ares attack also works well with worldsplitter

[night pasture]

it's also why the world splitter/flurry strike hammer upgrades are both nice

[pastel jolt]

the curse will go off just in time for you to thwack em again

[night pasture]

yeah, what @pastel jolt said

[zinc quest]

The Sword with Athena Boon on special is awesome. Pump it with pomd a few times and maybe add Aphrodite's shotguns for the cyclops and you are good to go. I've also had success with the special powering your crits. That set up works with a variety of builds. The most ridiculous setup I had that worked was sword special that focused on artemis crits. It absolutely needs clean kill or hidebreaker.

[turbid needle]

@night pasture I kinda like to go dash attacking using ares boon with sword

Bow Dash Attack + Critical Damage on Attack + 3 Arrow upgrade on Daedalus Hammer though... insanity

nearly as insane as Artemis True Cast + Additional Projectiles on hydra... once I even had 3 additional projectiles and 5 cast ammo... It felt like I was Hydra bursting boss

[vast chasm]

Man big gorgon fight is big stinky with short range weapons

it just went to the edge of the map where I didn't have range and had to relay on deflect and cast which took forever

[still pewter]

yeah it sucks real bad at times

it's really easy if you have range though

[worn owl]

so I was trying to get a really big crit

and I got pretty lucky with boons, but unfortunately didn't get steady shot from hammer

https://i.imgur.com/8pc35zc.jpg

still pretty good though

also forgot to take enough damage for the skull earring 😦

[atomic panther]

I got up to 1362 once but I wasn't expecting it so I didn't screenshot

[fervent quartz]

Oneshotting the hydra phases is fun

[atomic panther]

A deflected bomb, 6x damage from heat, +44% from Athena buff, 2x damage from Backstab, +20% from Aphrodite weak buff

[worn owl]

I was trying to see if I could possibly phase skip

by doing enough in one hit

but it looks like it either caps the damage the hydra takes or I am nowhere near doing enough to do that

[old rivet]

Whats the best trinket?

[grand patrol]

I think thats a matter of opinion!

[worn owl]

depends on what you wanna do, but I'd say tooth or skull earring

[grand patrol]

my faves are the shackle and the collar

skull earring also good!!!

[atomic panther]

What I do is God trinket for Tartarus then Skull Earring for Asphodel

[worn owl]

collar is probably better than the tooth..... but skelly

[grand patrol]

collar great for health and shackle bc..........sisyphus a fave and i want him to see zag is using his gift uwu

[atomic panther]

Collar is ridiculous bc every heal is % max health

[worn owl]

if only the feather duster wasn't the worst gd thing

[grand patrol]

😔

yeah....

[atomic panther]

F

[old rivet]

and what does the perfect landing do?

[atomic panther]

Feels good

[old rivet]

better then nothing

i guess

[atomic panther]

Feather duster is the only thing I have never equipped

Also, word of warning: Equipping the Bone Hourglass after purchasing something does not extend it retroactively

[old rivet]

If u have the collar equiped and change to another trinket do yu lose the hp ( while in a game)

[turbid needle]

yes

[old rivet]

:(

[atomic panther]

But if you had less than 60 damage you're full health now

[bright verge]

I usually use different keepsakes each time for Tartarus, and switch to collar before Asphodel

[proud storm]

zagreus, coming through wearing the skull earring, the shackle and the spiked collar

peak goth energy

[atomic panther]

That's just canon

[grand patrol]

walk walk fashion baby

[proud storm]

Meg greets zag into her boss room. Shes wearing a skull earring

Zag is also wearing a skull earring but much better than meg

Meg is utterly shocked and zag absolutely knows that and acts real smug about it

[grand patrol]

"i GAVE you that" "and i paired it with a silver nail so /shrug"

[atomic panther]

You fool! The skull earring is the equivalent of half of one of those Best//Friend necklaces

[grand patrol]

WORST / ENEMY

[atomic panther]

YES

[grand patrol]

zags earring says worst megs says enemy

[atomic panther]

Canon

[grand patrol]

hfjfkg i rly wish we got lines from characters noticing when weve equipped their stuff (DISCLAIMER NO PRESSURE THIS IS WISH NOT FEEDBACK)

[proud storm]

This could be valid feedback 👀

[grand patrol]

you have the duster, dusa goes "o-oh wow prince you liked it that much???? im so glad!!! its fine if you didnt like it of course but, well, it makes me really happy, to uhm- GOTTA GO"

[proud storm]

You have the cosmic egg, record scratch camera freeze

[fast shard]

Thanks for reporting a game freeze! The most common solution to this issue can be found in #hades-tech-fixes-old

[proud storm]

NO

[grand patrol]

shackle equipped in a sisy room: "that looks great on you, prince, and i hope it's doing its job!"

AAAAAAAA HAHAHAHA

[worn owl]

hahahahaha

[proud storm]

Anyway i was gonna say

[atomic panther]

You have the collar equipped and Cerberus is even MORE of a good boy

[proud storm]

Muffled royce bracket voice "hey zag, were not gonna get away with this are we"

[worn owl]

I don't know if even modern graphics cards can render such a good boy

[grand patrol]

the fearsome watchdog notices the old collar and licks your face with extra enthusiasm.

AAAAAAAAAAAA

zag: wears 1 (one) olympian keepsake
all the boonies: SO YOURE REAL CLOSE WITH X HUH?????? SO YOU HATE ME IS THAT IT

[atomic panther]

We already get that in the trials

Speaking of, I first did a trial after gifting to Artemis and when it said Artemis grew displeased I legit thought I had lost that progress

[proud storm]

"AM I A JOKE TO YOU"

[grand patrol]

omg

[worn owl]

I do like how they all throw short lived hissy fits in the trials

[inland rover]

asphodel can be so annoying... sometimes u end up running around like an idiot just waiting for an opening.. i'd love it if it were more bullethell-y and less crowds of aggressive dudes on my behind man

#frustrated af

[atomic panther]

I don't like the bullet hell parts bc they make my computer lag

[inland rover]

mine lags when i assault my keyboard after is got chain stoned by medusas

[night pasture]

don't do drugs, kids

[worn owl]

especially not rocks

[inland rover]

got high on aspheodel, was petrified by the experience

[autumn tapir]

ok proxy really needs to chill out with reporting game heatn't

[grand patrol]

HEATNT

AAAAAA

[twilit narwhal]

i have the worst luck with the hydra

my first hydra was fine, only got a green head on the third group of heads

[latent badger]

Who likes the shield? I can't find anything really good about it. The only thing I really like is that you can dash and then double attack because there seems to not be any backswing from dash attack to normal attack. That is only ok because the enemy will get knocked back from the dash attack unless they're against a wall. Unless you have the no knockback hammer up. Then it's pretty good because it hits in a wide area and you can dash out pretty fast. But that's it. Captain america throw does small damage; only useful for proccing the heat shield in my opinion. Bullrush is soooo slow for like what, fifty damage? I don't actually know it because I never use it. So that's my bit with the shield. Why do you like or dislike it?

[twilit narwhal]

ever since then, there's always two

i love the shield

upgraded bullrush is pretty sweet

shield throw is great for clearing little trash, like skulls. moreso if you get a zeus buff

[fervent quartz]

The knockback is kinda useless in asphodel and vs bosses so the poseidon attack upgrade is fun but not very good

Mostly my shield runs are me hoping for the hammer or ares

[twilit narwhal]

most of my firsts were with the shield. first meg kill? shield. first murderboat survival? shieldfirst time to hydra? shield

[latent badger]

How are you not getting hit during the bullrush charge? Is the block 360 or are you kiting before you start it?

[twilit narwhal]

i do my best to make sure i have a little space before rushing usually

either via dash or just moving out of the way if possible

i find the block on bull rush to be ineffective at best

[still pewter]

you mean, during the dash?

[latent badger]

Well he's saying that he's making space with dash before bullrushing back.

I think

[twilit narwhal]

this

[latent badger]

Also, what about trinkets? my most hated is the coin purse. You have to wear it before you die, giving you no benefit and then you have to wear it again on the next run to give a mediocre benefit

[proud storm]

maxing out the coin purse lets you keep up to 300 coins

id say its pretty fancy early on although yes you'd need to start with it

[latent badger]

300 is a lot. That is more than mediocre. I still think it's dumb that you have to die with it to actually get the effect the next run. You basically have to sabotage your previous run by not spending gold to make it useful. I think it was only truely useful for getting the posters

Maybe if it had an immediate effect on the current run I'd consider it. Like +x% more obols or something in addition to the savings.

[proud storm]

i'm sure it'll be taken in consideration

[pastel jolt]

let's see how this goes

👌

[proud storm]

are you grateful for this

[pastel jolt]

yes

[errant narwhal]

does that mean you have 50 heat in the mirror or just 50 in general

sorry I just haven’t used heat at all yet

[grand patrol]

thats like how much u have i think

[atomic panther]

That's how much you have that you aren't using, I think

[errant narwhal]

ah I see

[atomic panther]

Same as Darkness

[pastel jolt]

yeah, if you currently have heat enabled then it shows in the top right corner

[proud storm]

for posterity @grand patrol https://i.imgur.com/eSblCbG.png

[grand patrol]

:0

[icy edge]

Hurt me, will you?

(In Zag's voice)

[old rivet]

Is chaos blessing considred a boon

[copper berry]

Yes, Chaos grants boons, but they aren't God boons.

[hard holly]

Because Chaos is above mere gods

[autumn tapir]

they're listed under cthonic gods

checkmate, atheists

[high pulsar]

Apologies if this is a known issue, but has anyone else had incorrect damage values for the bow's Perfect Shot upgrade? It's described as giving 200% damage for the power shot, but my experience has been that the base power shot deals 40 damage, while the Perfect Shot damage is 60.

[worn owl]

I think that might just be a bad description

A fully charged shot is 30

And that change would make a power shot 200% of that

That said I do think that upgrade should be buffed and possibly gain a reduced damage for regular shots

[vestal surge]

I know that its a bit late for me to say that, but does it bother u too the change with the enemy's shields (yellow bar)? The fact that you have to (first) destroy their shield(yellow bar) and after that they take health (red bar) dmg too. I mean, doing an over-powered attack (deals 300+ dmg) on an enemy with low shield (yellow bar), it will dmg him by the remaining amount of his current shield than the whole attack's dmg.
For example: Doing a maxed aoe spear attack (buffed) that'll cause around 400dmg. One enemy has low shield (around 10-20 shield) and he gets hit for 10-20dmg (the amount of his current shield) while the attack's dmg was about to hit for 400...
It made the spear way much weaker than before and I believe that its not cool either..

[high pulsar]

I usually find it an interesting challenge to deal no more shield damage than necessary, but I admit that it can get tiring to deal with a bunch of armored numbskulls who need at least 2 hits to kill, no matter your current damage.

[night pasture]

I understand where you're coming from, but you could easily bust armored enemies with one hit before the change

[lost rose]

It is irritating but it's added utility to delayed damage!

[high pulsar]

Good point; Ares' curse boons are really useful for that.

[vestal surge]

The fact that it made it more challenging is the only reason that I like that, but its kinda triggering in some fighting action.

Btw I think that the sword pretty good against this shield update

[autumn tapir]

I think the change is fine

armor means "armored" not "yellow colored"

[high pulsar]

It might be cool if there was a boon or hammer upgrade that let your extra armor damage hit enemy health, though.

[forest marsh]

The good old days

[native ether]

I find it's pretty good as it prevents players from being able to create builds that just one shot everything minus boss enemies. Means even as overpowered as you can get, there's some check preventing it from being too easy.

[forest marsh]

It can be real frustrating when your normal damage is, say, 200 per hit and you only do 9 damage because the enemy's armour had a sliver left 🙃

But yes, balance is a challenge

[autumn tapir]

I made the cursed mistake of taking the athena dash

guess I'll make the best of i--T H E R E I S N O E S C A P E

[forest marsh]

Athena dash isn't so bad, you just have to time it to dash slightly later than you normally would so it deflects the attacks

[turbid needle]

Athena dash pisses me off

[atomic panther]

Athena dash is literally the best dash boon

[twilit narwhal]

I've done it

https://i.imgur.com/1GT6bS8.png

[forest marsh]

Congrats!

[twilit narwhal]

thanksk

i got super luckky with my first two boons

hammer for rapid shot in the first room was the best boon

[nova flame]

congtats! 👍

[errant narwhal]

i just died to meg

im so rusty

[twilit narwhal]

artemis dash is the worst

[fervent quartz]

it seems very good on bow and spear and rubbish on shield and sword

[lost rose]

this wasn't my FASTEST hydra kill, but it was by far my cleanest. No death defies lost, still had like 40 health at the end of it all, and that was despite only getting 4 boons across the whole run

[grand patrol]

COOL

[inland rover]

hows the opinion of people here about the upgrade mirror system

[twilit narwhal]

i do not understand at all how it's good on bow

it makes extricating yourself from groups impossible

[inland rover]

i just thought its not well implemented right now... feels like grind progression where you get straight up better over time. dont like that at all. i feel if you could say trade cast ammo for extra dashed, like a trade off scenario it'd be more fun.

no reason not to max everything, which is just a question of perseverance and time

[still pewter]

I agree, I don't like it either

I'd rather it be upgrades that add variety to your runs, not straight up power ups

[errant narwhal]

with bow youre dashing around constantly, therefore most of your attacks are dash attacks

so its a free damage increase

[lost rose]

there was a time, not so long ago, when i had trouble with hydra fights....beating it consistently still gives me the warm fuzzies

i'm almost up to the 60 heat i need for that next difficulty level >:3

[errant narwhal]

hey guys who sucks more to fight against in a trial, artemis or zeus

[lost rose]

i'm gonna say zeus probably

[errant narwhal]

oo okay ill pick him first then

[grand patrol]

hfhjfj i think the worst to fight agaisnt of all of them is athena

[errant narwhal]

YEAH

ok i got to the hydra again this time, faith in my skill restored

wrow i even killed it

maybe........... sword is good

[grand patrol]

wrow

[pastel jolt]

sword has definitely improved since the early builds

[proud storm]

fun fact the word sword starts with an s and thus can be called the s word

[grand patrol]

zag: picks up the sword
sword: (disappears)
proxy: deleted. reason: s word

[proud storm]

secret obscure god: proxy

[lost rose]

Πρόξυ

[proud storm]

(sisyphus voice) hullo yewchube

[grand patrol]

sisyphus gets money from streaming his bouldypushing

[lost rose]

i'd watch but i'd, like, feel kinda bad about it

[grand patrol]

gets to the top
rolls down
chat: f f f f f f f f f f f

[proud storm]

How To Push Your Instrument Of Eternal Torture In 4 Easy Steps !!!!

[grand patrol]

gtjkhghgk he does ads as he pushes

"as you can see, miss megaera, i am in fact pushing the boulder, but what im thinking about is not eternal torture but instead a deliecious refreshing coca cola! tm."
"....as long as youre pushing."

[proud storm]

meg accidentally shows up during a stream and the chat is like

"OMG is that your girlfrienfnds???

[grand patrol]

JHGBHJGJHGHJ

meg grabs the camera and mic like i dont know what this little setup is but if it delays you one moment from your constant boulder rolling ill crush it to dust and hes like "no meg theyre here to watch me roll as well meg" (stage whisper) shes like the hell prison warden for me

the chat is now in love with her, shes the subject of so many memes she never finds out about,

[proud storm]

when zag shows up to give sisyphus some ambrosia and ""talk"" the chat starts spamming rainbow pepe emojis

[grand patrol]

JHGVHJFGFVHJGGVJHGVHJGJH YEAH

[proud storm]

but since pepe probably does not exist in the hades universe it's rainbow bouldy

[grand patrol]

chat:
zag: oh are you streaming? cool leme see the chat
sisyphus: (closes laptop)

[lost rose]

i feel like this is probably. #h1-discussion

[proud storm]

you're probably right sqjhdfjf

[lost rose]

i love it though please continue. elsewhere,

[grand patrol]

opsie thanks

[bold grotto]

Anyone managed sub 10 min clear? I got to 10:45 but that was with I think something pre nerf

seems like everythings slowed by a couple minutes for me as of the last patch

[forest marsh]

Yup, people have done sub 10

[pastel jolt]

i think the current record is 6 minutes in ingame time

[bold grotto]

6 min seems not possible

[pastel jolt]

https://www.speedrun.com/Hades/run/yl4xe5km

[bold grotto]

like they didn't use the game's timer?

[forest marsh]

That is the game's timer

[pastel jolt]

9m 18s in real time, 6m 15s on ingame timer

[forest marsh]

That run is by our very own, very delightful Dino

[bold grotto]

oh that's pre nerf triple shot right

[forest marsh]

That's on the current build as far as I know

[pastel jolt]

13019, yup

you can also tell because the shot is much wider

[bold grotto]

oh weird he still goes aphrodite and loses some dps there

he didn't get to pick though

[pastel jolt]

i.... fail to see the point you're trying to make? sure he went aphrodite. that's the god that came up.

i think my personal best is like... 12 minutes or so? that was with a pretty sweet bow run

i usually sit somewhere closer to 16-18 minutes though, i'm Bad

[forest marsh]

Y'all are way better than me, though I don't try to go fast by any stretch. I think maybe 17 minutes is my current top? I'll look next time I clear

Usually I'm 20+

In-game

[pastel jolt]

from my latest victory screen

[lost rose]

I have a 16:45 as my best speed, in-game time

i don't really make an effort to go super fast though

[pastel jolt]

me either really? i think the 13 minute cler was just me getting op boon combos

i'm like 90% sure that was a splitting bolt run actually

which would explain it

[lost rose]

that would indeed explain it lol

[pastel jolt]

huh. no it was not

dghfkgjfd it was the run i basically threw away because i got curious and took clean kill when had no crit boons

that's even better

....oh wait no there's deadly strike

it's almost 3am i'm confused

[forest marsh]

Sleep is important, friends

[pastel jolt]

there we go, i bodged two screenshots together so you can still read the boons lmao

[lost rose]

/screenshots/IN THE NAME OF HADES!

[pastel jolt]

dgfhjkdfk

i like how i can tell which runs i lost vs. won because the runs where i lost have a pre-hydra loadout screenshot but not a post one

[lost rose]

22 clears 😭 i'm still under 10, i think

i just like, stopped playing the game for about three weeks

other stuff to do gdfkjgfd

[pastel jolt]

23 hydra kills, 12 of them with bow...... i don't have a favourite weapon i promise

[forest marsh]

I bow to your expertise, sparrow

[pastel jolt]

😐

[forest marsh]

(most of my clears are also bow)

[bold grotto]

how do people post their screenshots here? Can't seem to paste into the channel

[lost rose]

upload to imgur or similar

[bold grotto]

gotcha

well anyway first try after asking if it had been done lol https://imgur.com/a/4AGDmoT

for some reason I thought triple shot was bad after the change

[worn owl]

I still prefer steady or instant shot

[atomic panther]

A level one Skull Earring? Who are you?

[bold grotto]

I never liked using it haha. Always wanted to choose the power so I could consistently get Zeus / Athena starts

or Aphrodite back in the day

Decided if I was gonna try to go fast I should probably suck it up and use it

[atomic panther]

Yeah starting with a God Boon then switching to the Skull Earring in Asphodel is how I got my first three hydra kills

[forest marsh]

I've been biting the bullet and just grinding keepsakes for a while now

[atomic panther]

I need to do that, but the shackle is just so bad >_<

[forest marsh]

I don't think I've gotten to that yet... It isn't as if any Keepsake is detrimental, though

Some are just more or less beneficial than others

[night pasture]

Counterpoint: Shattered Shackle

[atomic panther]

It's Sisyphus's Keepsake and it makes falling rubble deal triple damage.

I don't know how much it scales with ranking up

[night pasture]

but it doesn't turn the rubble into little falling bouldies

[atomic panther]

So it's basically worthless :/

[night pasture]

Bingo

[night pasture]

I think the harpy feather duster also gets a bum rap but honestly I find it to be a surprising amount of extra health in asphodel

[night compass]

i find the shackle to be really useful with the shield because im frequently bashing into pillars

i dont think ive ever used the feather duster though

[night pasture]

Star Splinter is really the way to go, if you're shooting the orb you're not being banished

wait wrong game

[analog crystal]

@still pewter Im running 600% damage, reduced darkness (but it still lets you have 3 casts triple dash and 1 death defy for some reason) and the rest I change around tbh

[still pewter]

600% mad lad

[analog crystal]

It forces you to get good at dodging

And buffs athena ironically

I enjoy it lel

[still pewter]

so that leaves you able to heal or not?

[analog crystal]

It depends what Im putting the rest of heat in

But when you're taking that much damage per hit

Heal doesnt help the most

[grim loom]

(hey i don't wanna interrupt but does anyone have any tips for beating meg cus i suck so far)

[analog crystal]

The biggest tip I could give if you don't already is to only attack after she's dashed at you and you dodged that

Dont get greedy basically

[still pewter]

and don't panick and dash all the time

she does moves in very clear patterns, once you learn them you'll hardly ever need to dodge

just stay cool

[analog crystal]

The only thing that catches me is close range bullet storm

Hate that

I feel like theres no build up to it

She just yeets without the yaa

[grim loom]

what about when she spawns all the dark circles everywhere? i can rarely get through that without getting hit by either the circles, random enemies, or both

[analog crystal]

How many dashes do you have?

[grim loom]

ive been playing with two

[analog crystal]

I would recommend 3 but with 2 I would say dont just dash instinctually

Look at the situation so you dont dash into the circles or enemies

There's should usually be a clear space you can reach

[grim loom]

i'll try switching to three but yeah calm situational awareness is probably the main thing i needa get used to

[analog crystal]

Good luck!

[grim loom]

thanks!

[fervent quartz]

also, to me it's a lot easier to aim dodges with controller if you are using m&kb

though with three dodges you can usually pick a direction without a wall and mash to avoid the circles

[grim loom]

the only controllers i have are switch controllers which are a hassle to connect to a PC

[analog crystal]

Idek you could connect them to pc

[grim loom]

i know i can, and ive done it before! it's just a hassle

[analog crystal]

is it even good once you've set it up? The only use I could see is switch emulators but if you've got the controllers already.....

[grim loom]

i quite like using joycons because i can rest my hands wherever i want while using them

otherwise though it's just sometimes better to use a controller for certain games /shrug

tbh tho it might be worth a shot to try joycons over mouse and keyboard for this to dodge in the direction i wanna dodge in more easily

[analog crystal]

Hades on switch sounds like itd be a lotta fun

[grim loom]

for sure

[copper berry]

This is my darkness setup for 120 heat runs.

[grim loom]

i think i barely have like 300 darkness

[pastel jolt]

oh nice, squeezing out every drop of that 500 limit i see

[grim loom]

also i have no clue what heat is

[copper berry]

And I run something like this for heat. You can exchange the 3 points in Shared Misery for an extra in Death Insurance, it is up to you and how you build. I think having at least 2 boons is a must though, as it really ups the number of builds you can have.

[pastel jolt]

heat is a resource you only start gaining after you beat the hydra once

[proud storm]

it's a resource you use to invest in the pact of punishment which essentially makes your runs harder

[grim loom]

i figured as much

[copper berry]

It basically gives you the ability to make the game harder.

[pastel jolt]

it's used for the pact of punishment, to power up conditions which make the game harder

[proud storm]

bastion has the gods, transistor has the limiters, pyre has the titan stars, hades has the heat & pact of punishment

[copper berry]

And for the darkness, you can also take one point out of Shadow Presence and put it into Infernal Soul to get an extra cast, it's up to you and how you play. But with only one point in boiling blood I generally don't bother with casts.

[proud storm]

tbh 10% of shadow presence isnt a lot

[analog crystal]

I wish you could pact down to 0 darkness but the devs downvoted it in the feedback

[proud storm]

well i mean

[pastel jolt]

i'm nervous about going for a 60-heat run once i've earned the last 5 i need because the only other time i played with any heat t all it was the piddly 15-heat run

[grim loom]

you could just remove all your spent points right?

[proud storm]

yeah

[analog crystal]

Yeah, but it'd be nice for getting heat rewards to be able to get that bit more heat in a run

[pastel jolt]

i'm wondering if i should work my way up to 60 or if it'd be less bother to just dive right in at the deep end and hope i don't hit my head too hard

[proud storm]

i had shared misery and vicious torment on my 60 heat run

[analog crystal]

Diving in forces you to adapt

Imo

But it depends how much you enjoy dying a lot

[proud storm]

honestly you learn a lot in heat runs

in my 120 heat run attempts i actually learned how to properly dodge hydra's attacks

[analog crystal]

About yourself too

[proud storm]

yes

[analog crystal]

The depths of your frustration with yourself

[pastel jolt]

hey @copper berry do you go with a consistent keepsake or weapon for high heat runs or do you change it up a lot?

[copper berry]

So I think on my 150 heat run I had Skelly's tooth, and I would normally do either that or maybe Zeus if I want to go Zeus + Spear or the like, which I do when I have 2 points in Death Insurance to easily go through them.

[pastel jolt]

oh right, zeus attack shreds death insurance

[copper berry]

I also experimented plenty with spiked collar, but I don't really like it as much once you have no possibility of healing, since in my eyes it is functionally the same as an extra life.

[tawdry aurora]

When I read through this and rememberd that I still didn´t beat Hydra once and I have at least tree quartes of mirror..... -_- .....just lame

[copper berry]

You will get there eventually!

[tawdry aurora]

With full mirror.......

[analog crystal]

Honestly an epic boon can make all the difference if you arent used to the hydra

[grim loom]

i ain't even beat meg yet man lmao

[proud storm]

i had zeus' keepsake for tartarus and skull earring for asphodel

[grim loom]

oh you can change keepsakes in between?

[tawdry aurora]

after Meg once

[grim loom]

oh, neat

[proud storm]

after meg there's a break room where you can heal yourself buy some charon stuff and change keepsakes

and collect some coins too

theres always at least 3 coin jars

[grim loom]

how nice

[tawdry aurora]

BTW: Some tips for reckless sword player on Hydra?

[analog crystal]

Athena is usually a pretty good bet

And sword flurry or world splitter

[tawdry aurora]

It is, now to have luck and get her...

[errant narwhal]

as a reckless sword player

[analog crystal]

Or get her keepsake 😉

[errant narwhal]

Zeus helped me beat the hydra with sword no problem

[grim loom]

is there a daedalus keepsake?

[errant narwhal]

nope

[grim loom]

awh

[atomic panther]

Sword > Athena > Special deals 144% more damage and deflects > Hammer > Special deals 30% more damage with a wider area = Win

[still pewter]

an ol' classic

super nova is fun

[warm lagoon]

Sword > Athena > Special is about the only way I can clear Tartarus

Super Nova just makes it more fun

Also question about god boon keepsakes, due to the randomness. Equipping a god keepsake doesn't necessarily mean the first room after you equip it will spawn a boon from that god?

[still pewter]

no it doesn't

the first boon you will encounter will be of the god you're choosing though

[warm lagoon]

this makes me sad, but at least i understand

[still pewter]

and I'm not entirely sure if this works when you're swapping after meg

not sure if "the next boon is from x god"

[warm lagoon]

yea i couldn't tell if that was the keepsake not working or just boons are more rare in Asphodel

[atomic panther]

It works after Meg, actually! It works somewhat counterintuitively, in that the next boon you find anywhere will be from that god with the exception of God Trials, Charon's shops, and if one of the potential next doors is that god's boon and you take a different door it's used up

[warm lagoon]

thanks @atomic panther

[atomic panther]

👍

[grim loom]

how come sometimes when im charging the bull rush with the shield, i still get hit from the front?

[heavy solstice]

@grim loom I’ve already sent a feedback to the #hades-feedback channel

[grim loom]

ah, i see

[forest marsh]

@fallow pecan How many runs in are you, out of curiosity?

[fallow pecan]

shoot, I don't have access to that info right now, but I'm guessing 25

[forest marsh]

That's fine, an approximation is good enough

[lost rose]

Have you upgraded your dash fully? That's very helpful

[fallow pecan]

yeah

[forest marsh]

I would recommend spending some time learning her attacks. Upgrade dash as ven says, and Shadow Presence (backstab damage) and Boiling Blood (cast stick bonus damage) are good investments

[lost rose]

I think the general advice around here is to ignore her summons unless they're really giving you trouble, and learn her attack patterns so you know when to dash away

[forest marsh]

Open the fight with unloading all your casts into her for a free 150 damage, then sidestep her first dash and get backstabs in

From there, rinse and repeat

Sidestep dash, backstab

When it comes to bullet hell either have an attack that can hit them fast enough to destroy while also damaging Meg, or else back off and avoid at distance

[lost rose]

When she does her bullet hell attack, get as far away as you can; there's a maximum range on the projectiles, and when they're more spread out they're easier to dodge

haha, strategy hat

[forest marsh]

For the AoE circles, just dash out. Watch for the ones where you don't have to move (non-darkened middle where you're standing) and attack Meg between those AoE casts

Shield special, bow attack, and Spear special can all destroy the projectiles easily if you're at medium range while also doing damage to Meg

[jade estuary]

anyone know when the next big patch is?

[forest marsh]

if you're too close then the animations won't happen fast enough to avoid damage

Feb 12

[jade estuary]

oh nice

[fallow pecan]

that all sounds reaonable ty

[jade estuary]

i can't wait

only 2 days

[forest marsh]

Generally ignore the adds unless they are in your way

No point defeating them unless you just are on an OP build are want to BM them

[fallow pecan]

I've gotta figure out how to read her other attacks too, they are still mysterious to me, maybe too visually busy for poor little me

[forest marsh]

They all have windups, like I said take some time to just learn her attacks. Spend a few cycles just watching without attacking

Avoid being hit, of course

[fallow pecan]

alright ty again

[forest marsh]

She has voice lines for the start of all her attacks except dash if memory serves

I could be misremembering that though

Or at least vocal noises, if not actual lines

Maybe the spinning whip attack doesn't have one

But should be there for the AoE circles and the bullet hell

[fallow pecan]

interesting

[forest marsh]

And the most important thing — practice and patience

It took me I think 38 runs before I defeated her (though that shouldn't be a benchmark or anything)

I'm just slow to build skill at games

[grim loom]

took me 42

im just impatient in the fight tbh

[forest marsh]

Nowadays I can reliably defeat her unless I am playing exceptionally poorly

Impatience will kill you in Hades, I've learned

[grim loom]

does that not partially have to do with having higher-leveled keepsakes and more darkness to use though?

[forest marsh]

A bit, but a lot of it is just learned skills

[grim loom]

right

[forest marsh]

And learned patterns, too

Once I got past Meg the first time, it was like a dam broke and I started defeating her fairly regularly

[grim loom]

i'd continue and see how that goes for me but it's like three am for me so im tuckin in

[forest marsh]

Ha ha I feel you. I think I stayed up until almost 3 last night playing too

I should go to bed soon myself, it's just past 1 am now

[grim loom]

haha yeah, time just kinda went past so quickly

[icy edge]

More darkness, ironically enough for a thing that represents your growing power, only makes mistakes less punishing.

There is a total of three upgrades IIRC that affect zag's offensive ability, the rest is all defence

[lost rose]

galaxy brain level theory is that it's just zag's destiny to be a tank

though if you're talking about making mistakes less punishing, aren't there only two mirror upgrades that really do that? the health pool increase and death defies

[still pewter]

dashes also technically

pure offence should be shadow presence, boiling blood and more stones

[lost rose]

like idk i'd break it down into
offensive ability: shadow presence, boiling blood
defensive/tank/"mistake insurance" ability: death defiance, thick skin, cthonic vitality
level increase for existing moves: greater reflex, infernal soul
darkness sinks: the two epic/rare boon chance increases
????: deep pockets

deep pockets is weird because technically we like, already have a keepsake for that?

it's almost like...RNG insurance

[still pewter]

it's a "generic" power increase

[lost rose]

like, if you're having a bad time with boons/upgrades, at least you have enough money in your pocket to buy good stuff from charon

[still pewter]

I really hope shops become more interesting in the future

they are really simple and to the point atm, I'd like to see some more sauce

[lost rose]

that good good gamer sauce

[still pewter]

are you ok

[lost rose]

you know the
the chef meme

[still pewter]

(happy birthday btw!)

[lost rose]

heheh thanks

[fervent quartz]

oh, happy birthday!

[lost rose]

oh no you started something 😂

sorry taren, what were you going to say?

[still pewter]

:)

RE: shops, I think charon shops have a lot of potential for improvement

the well is in an interesting spot. though I don't usually end up buying anything from it

[icy edge]

If only so that we have more options

[fervent quartz]

not sure how shops could be made more strategic, though. don't think hades can fit a meta game like binding of isaac

[still pewter]

current shops essentially let you buy rewards in a quantitative way. "I could go get 1 pom in the next room, or I can get to the shop and get 1pom+1heart

[lost rose]

yeah, i find myself thinking that a lot....

ofc it's dependent on having enough money at that point in the run to do shopping, too, but yeah

[fervent quartz]

i usually try to delay the shop until i need the heal, the opportunity cost is low or it's the last room anyway

[still pewter]

yeah, sure. All I'm saying is it could be a bit more interesting

[fervent quartz]

which means i usually end up with 200 money that i never spend

being able to spend money on risks like additional no-hit rooms might be fun

[icy edge]

Dude no

[lost rose]

being able to spend money to bypass a no hit room, now that would be fun

[icy edge]

No hit rooms are miserable and awful xD

[still pewter]

do you guys think active items would have a place in hades? single use or reuseable with a cooldown. I don't reaaaally think it fits, but there is so much undiscovered design space I feel like

[lost rose]

i'm going to bribe every shade in the no-hit rooms

[still pewter]

what, don't you like ?

[fervent quartz]

i like the idea of active items but my controller has no buttons left

[lost rose]

i wish i had kam's zag reaccs right now

[icy edge]

Honestly I'd support another attack/movememt option on the weapons.

We have cast, dash, attack and special... so why not special II

[fervent quartz]

charged attack are kiiiinda special II

[lost rose]

the well items are already kiiiind of like that? they're timed use, anyways

not active use but they are limited duration

[still pewter]

interesting taren. I'm kbm and have literally no idea about the state of controller

[fervent quartz]

i use a steam controller with a super weird button layout so it might be different for sane people

[lost rose]

i use an xbox 360 controller, i have it set to A for dash, B for cast, X for attack and Y for special, which i feel is pretty standard

left trigger pulls up the boon menu but i can't remember if the other bumper/trigger buttons do anything

[still pewter]

don't you use triggers? they sound really useful

[lost rose]

i can fit everything on the standard thumb pad buttons so i don't feel like i need the triggers

[icy edge]

Keyboard and mouse are so good tho, i dont see why people insist on having a gamepad for anything but sport/fighting games

[still pewter]

It's preference really

[lost rose]

i played hades for a couple weeks using kbm, it has pros and cons

[icy edge]

I mean, fair

[lost rose]

i miss the flexibility of mouse aiming

[fervent quartz]

i use triggers for attack/dash, back paddles for cast/charge attack and the right touchpad as a giant button for special, attack and dash on turbo so i don't have to mash

[icy edge]

But people who disagree with me are obviously wrong

[still pewter]

😠

[lost rose]

someone was talking about an option to bind attack direction and dash direction one per control stick

which would preserve some of the kbm function

[still pewter]

I can't contribute to this conversation, but I can say I envy analogue movement so much. sounds like the main appeal to me

[lost rose]

god yeah analogue movement feels so much better

that was my main gripe with the wasd movement on keyboard

[fervent quartz]

i do a lot less lava diving with controller

[lost rose]

gjfdhgkjdf lava diving.....

[still pewter]

hey that's dangerous 🏊

[lost rose]

🔥

[still pewter]

dash to cursor is as close as we're getting to analogue movement

and it feels pretty good

so who do yall think we'll be getting in 2 days' time?

I think I've heard lots of dionysus and hestia, what do you think?

[lost rose]

i'm pretty convinced it's dionysus personally

someone made a good point about the spoon-looking thing likely being his pinecone staff

chaos tripped most of us up bc it was hard to even assume chaos would be in the game at all but if we're back on track with standard olympians...

[still pewter]

true. dionysus isn't even in the core 12 according to the more popular renditions of myth though

[lost rose]

I personally don't think it would be hestia? she's related to homey stuff but not plant life directly, that would be more demeter-y, and...i'm not sure how demeter would work as someone giving you boons, with zag's parentage and all...

[still pewter]

what boons do you think dionysus/hestia would have?

[fervent quartz]

not sure if they will go with wine or madness as main theme for dionysus. If it's wine a damage over time that slows seems reasonable

[lost rose]

disorienting enemies would be fun 🤔

a disorienting "rage" or "berserk" type effect maybe?

[still pewter]

sounds cool

[fervent quartz]

though there is a charm boon as aphrodites level 3 already

for hestia, maybe your very own lava puddles that damage enemies in the area?

[lost rose]

yeah but you're not turning the enemies on each other necessarily, more like they attack everything around them, including you and themselves
it might be too similar to the "switch" type effect of aphrodite tho yeah

[still pewter]

that'd make a cool cast taren

[autumn tapir]

what if it makes dashes/attacks/specials leave behind an area of grape leaves/vines that deal damage and slow enemies that walk in it

[lost rose]

oooh like an entangle thing

[still pewter]

that sounds a bit more demeter tho

more nature-y less wine-y

[fervent quartz]

would technically also work with wine puddles

[autumn tapir]

yeah

demeter and dionysus kinda overlap in their themes though

[fallow pecan]

@forest marsh @lost rose got meg the very next try ty 😃

[forest marsh]

Awesome! Happy to have been of some help

[fallow pecan]

yup! it also helped that I had 72 delayed damage (level 3) on my basic bow attack

but I think I could do it without that too

[icy edge]

Bow attack works so good with Ares

[atomic panther]

And bow special. The crowd control it offers is insane

[icy edge]

Meeeh, i recently discovered the godlike utility of athena on bow special so i usually get that

[atomic panther]

Tru tru

[orchid sonnet]

So like, what's the deal with legendary boons? I sometimes get them sometimes not. I got all of Zeus's boons including Strom Lightning but the legendary didn't show up. There was only one boom I could take.

[proud storm]

even when you have the prerequisites for a god's legendary it sometimes wont show up anyway

but most of the time it will

at least thats what i think happens

[still pewter]

I think if you mean the prerequisite, it's a 30% chance. I think

[proud storm]

well for zeus' legendary u need his attack/special/cast (any of those three) + storm lightning

and even after you have that it's not guaranteed to show up i think?

[still pewter]

yeah I think it's a 30% chance it shows up

like 30% per zeus boon choice. I'm actually not sure at all about this, I just remember reading it somewhere

I might be misinforming you

[orchid sonnet]

I guess I just thought it was guaranteed since my first few came all in a row. Now they're dodgy.

It can be kind of irritating though. I had all Zeus boons except special in that run.

[atomic panther]

Zeu's special boon isn't a chain lightning

[hollow totem]

Hes spawns fun orbs

[atomic panther]

Three runs in a row now I've gotten Centaur Heart starting item. I'm livid

[turbid needle]

Ooff

[grim loom]

what about the centaur heart makes it so annoying to get as a starting item?

[atomic panther]

It's not a power increase. It buffs healing items and lets you facetank more damage, neither of which are particularly helpful for early clear, especially since you're operating at base capacity, less if you have heat active

And since the earliest a boon can be offered is room 3, you're like that for 4 encounters (counting the starting room as room 0)

[grim loom]

ohhh i didn't even realize that about boons

wow okay

[atomic panther]

I don't know if that's a hard coded fact, but it's my experience

Just used all 5 of my death defiances on the meg fight bc of lag RIP

[forest marsh]

5 Wow!

I've had 5 a total of 1 time in my ~130 or so runs

[grim loom]

what is that.. starting with three, buying one, and getting one from chaos?

[atomic panther]

I technically had 6 at one point bc of the lucky tooth

[forest marsh]

Dang

[grim loom]

oh yeah that too

[atomic panther]

I actually bought 2

[grim loom]

wow

fair enough

is there any way to increase the health a death defy gives you? i wouldn't think so, just curious

[atomic panther]

But yeah I mistimed my dashes and got hit by all of her death circles

[grim loom]

oof

[atomic panther]

Not as of now, no

[grim loom]

fair enough

[static wren]

@grim loom you can change the health a death defy gives you with modding.
the whole game is open-code, it pretty much invites change, just like any other games Supergiant made so far

[grim loom]

oh huh, i didn't even realize that

[atomic panther]

Got to Hydra on 60 Heat with Bow and Ares attack + special boons but died due to mismanaging the heals orz

[lost rose]

I haven't managed to get more than a couple stages into asphodel on 60 heat yet 😭

I've only done like five runs though so

zeus SO important for crowd control and Not Getting Hit

[atomic panther]

I had the daedalus +100% arrows on special upgrade and Artemis Cast for extra burst. I was doing great but I forgot the fangs dealt 35 so I took only one healing item instead of two and died

[lost rose]

I love the extra arrows on special, it makes me feel powerful

With the reduced boons per choice I've only managed to get triple shot like once

[atomic panther]

Extra arrows on special + Poseidon special buff is my favorite boon combo I've ever gotten

A close second is attack crit buff + bonus crit damage + world splitter

[upbeat junco]

Im using the bow and was wondering what you guys would think the best attack damage boon is the best. I usually go Hunter Dash and either Poseidon or Athena attack damage boon.

[forest marsh]

Sounds like you've got it figured just fine 👍

I favour Athena and Hunter Dash myself

Poseidon is fun on Bow Special

[upbeat junco]

ok thanks, also what would you consider to be the best bow upgrades in order?

[forest marsh]

Hammer Upgrades?

[upbeat junco]

yea

[forest marsh]

Triple Shot, Perfect Shot, Point Blank Shot are my top three, in that order

[ocean vortex]

Has anyone here finished a run with 120 Heat? I need to know their builds cuz I'm getting salty

[upbeat junco]

I was thinking Triple Shot > Perfect Shot > Point-Blank Shot = Steady Shot > Sniper Shot and all others are not worth

[forest marsh]

Yeah, there are a few in this server that I know have finished 120 (and even 150)

Steady Shot is... not great

Way too slow

[upbeat junco]

yea but I prefer it over sniper shot and the others

[forest marsh]

Dino posted his 120 Heat build earlier, one moment I'll look for it

[upbeat junco]

generally it's harder to get distance between you and the enemies so it's harder to use snipershot whereas I've managed to do relatively well using steady

[forest marsh]

@ocean vortex https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/520688402958516254/543929118194925569 Here's Dino's Darkness build for 120 Heat, and if you scroll down a couple messages from this linked one he gives his Heat setup as well

[ocean vortex]

Thanks

[grim loom]

question: does the athena dash "deflect" the damage from the circles megaera spawns?

[forest marsh]

Not that I've ever noticed, no

[grim loom]

oh noooo

[forest marsh]

That's not to say it can't happen, but I haven't seen it happen

Deflect as far as I know only applies to projectile and physical attacks, not AoE

[grim loom]

so am i absolutely screwed then if she starts spawning them

[atomic panther]

It does give i-frames

[grim loom]

oh good

[forest marsh]

My advice for avoiding them if you're having trouble is to start running first and then dash to avoid the dash lock

And yes, dash has some iframes

[atomic panther]

Athena dash has tons

[grim loom]

even the pause at the start of the athena dash?

[forest marsh]

Most of the time it only takes one well placed dash to avoid the circle, though

And watch carefully, because some summons don't require you to move. There is often a clear space where you're standing that isn't in a circle

[grim loom]

yeah of course

oh wow that was really easy

i didnt realize just how much damage ares can do on the spear attack

[atomic panther]

Ares is deceptively strong bc he's one of two Gods who give a flat damage boost rather than a percent (Zeus is the other one but his boon chains and has no cooldown so he's better on most weapons)

[turbid needle]

Ares attack boon is probably best on shield. On spear I'd honestly prefer anything else except maybe Artemis

[atomic panther]

Artemis is good on spear bc it's a rotation of three attacks and at epic level her attack boon gives 30% crit chance

[grim loom]

how do i not get overwhelmed by the last stage of the hydra

[forest marsh]

Try pausing and taking a few breaths. For real.

It's very hectic, yes. Start at one side and clear a safe space

Take your time, be patient when you can afford to

[grim loom]

how do i clear a safe space though when there's heads literally everywhere?

[forest marsh]

They don't spawn all at once

One will always come out first, so jump on it

[grim loom]

i suppose i havent had a chance to be patient yet cus i had almost no health by that point

okay

[forest marsh]

Then a few more will pop out, and then the last few

Be conscious about your dashing, don't just panic-dash

It's easy to lose track of Zagreus if you're just spamming dash

[grim loom]

i knew where i was but i was panic-dashing cus i couldnt find anywhere safe

[forest marsh]

Prioritize the green heads, as they spawn Bloodless

Destroy the eggs that it throws out if possible, this prevents them spawning

[grim loom]

ohhhhh good to know

[forest marsh]

Then next is the purple heads, they shoot the lava balls

The plain heads just do slam attacks and are the easiest

You can deflect the lava balls, but they'll still land somewhere. The advantage of deflecting them is they tend to be grouped close together instead of spread out

[grim loom]

do they not damage the head that shot them?

[forest marsh]

Not that I've noticed, no

[grim loom]

oof

[forest marsh]

When the Hydra starts shooting while you're fighting the summoned heads, either hide out behind a safe pillar or try to destroy the projectiles

[grim loom]

thankfully i had extended range on the spear so i could hit the projectiles from most anywhere

[forest marsh]

You only have to kill one or two heads to clear a safe space in the final summon phase

[grim loom]

is it better to clear a space at one side or along the bottom? or does it quite matter

[forest marsh]

Don't forget that Boiling Blood can give you up to 50% more damage one enemies with a bloodstone embedded

Use this whenever possible

[grim loom]

mhm i had that on

[forest marsh]

I go for one side

[grim loom]

fair enough

is it just me or do attacks have way farther range aiming up than in any other direction?

[forest marsh]

That has been mentioned, yeah

Up and down should be about the same though

[grim loom]

doesnt feel like it to me, though im also really bad at judging distances