Well
#h1-builds-and-combat
hard holly
Ive noticed lately that that is usually the Gorgon
And the shop instead leads to the boat
But usually, not always
fallow barn
I am proud
errant narwhal
:')
hard holly
Yeah Id say the odds are something like 9/10 that its gorgon
dire mason
I see how it is Alma π
hard holly
Ive only seen it be the boat once so far
Also can we get a special transition that officially names it the murderboat?
dire mason
My god boon symbol is absolutely 
thank you.
Actually regularly it's π and then when you don't choose me it's
dire mason
The unholy and powerful combination of πͺ and π
hard holly
Yeah the dress looks like a bloodsplatter
errant narwhal
i tabbed back to the game and zagreus said " i didnt catch her name..."
i love him
hard holly
Its obviously Me(ga)dusa
Actually that does bring up a good question
Medusa was originally the only gorgon who lost their head
hard holly
Did the other ones just ... think it was a trendy thing to do?
pastel jolt
yes alma
take storm lightning and then you can get the legendary if you see zeus again
hard holly
Can lightning bounce several times to the same target?
pastel jolt
it is beautiful
errant narwhal
lol i think the codex says the little ones come from dusa's blood or somehthing
hard holly
Does that mean Dusa is a bloodless?
manic ermine
Codex said the dusa heads sprang from the earth with dusa's blood
errant narwhal
i took it. this one's for you niola
hard holly
Man, she sure had a lot of blood then
pastel jolt
...As the immortal ichor of the most infamous of gorgons spilled from her severed head into the earth, it trickled down into the Underworld, and spawned a brood of vengeful offspring.
dire mason
A brood of vengeful offspring and one absolute cutie. 
errant narwhal
do i pom my attack or my dash π€
pastel jolt
attack definitely
pastel jolt
listen i still think it's adorable that if the megagorgon kills you, both zag and hypnos will be like "ehhhhhhh let's not tell dusa about this."
errant narwhal
the game is offering me another pom, or an ares which will certainly be boat?
wow
tough choice
pastel jolt
pom
errant narwhal
i really dont know what to choose 
pastel jolt
pom, ares is Warm Garbage
errant narwhal
no i know it was sarcastic
pastel jolt
noah's fence ares my man
errant narwhal
woah ive had 7 poms
and 3 zeus boons, but no legendary yet, though if i get another zeus boon itll probably be it
hard holly
Enough for 3.5 cheerleaders
errant narwhal
im at the shop b4 hydra and theres no zeus, F
i can get an aphrodite tho so at this point honestly why not
got Different League, cool cool
i cleared out the shop which also gave me like 60 health and 10 darkness
time to die to the hydra again hahaaaaaah
green birch
you can do it!!!
grand patrol
ZEUSA VERSUS DUSA
WHO WILL WIN IN A FIGHT 100 ZEUS SIZED DUSAS OR 1 DUSA SIZED ZEUS
south comet
G-Greetings nephew!.. Eerm, uh your highness? flies into the ceiling with a lightning bolt
south comet
YES
south comet
WOOOOOOOO!!!!!
errant narwhal
a bit sad i didnt get to see the legendary in action but im happy i won
hard holly
So I guess now youll never be able to beat the Hydra again
grand patrol
SWEEET
hard holly
Oh, I looked at the weapons
errant narwhal
oh no i had another clear from before it counted. it was with the shield
hard holly
Only 3 there
And thought since you also had 3 zeus boons
And Flurry Blade shows 3 blades
That that joke would work
Whoops
crisp cloak
does anyone have a build for bow one should look out for? i found artemis dash too fiddly to increase damage realiably while keeping myself safe
copper berry
Learning to properly use the dash and dash attack with bow is a big way to improve the damage!
hard holly
Artemis Dash is ludicrous on bow
Dash attacks on bow lower the charge time anyway
So you want to be doing that as much as possible
crisp cloak
i just hooped there was another setup, i like keeping dashes for survival, rather than offense
hard holly
I mean you could just get any other dash, its just less optimal
Otherwise its Athena or Poseidon (I prefer Athena) on attack
And any of the good hammer upgrades
crisp cloak
i tried the instant charge combined with base damage increases and deflect to be a tad weak. only ares' additional damage tick combined with instant charge was quite strong
copper berry
Instant charge with anything that scales with your damage is a bit poor. Ares and Zeus are the best ones with it.
crisp cloak
maybe it was so fiddly because i didn't have to charge after dash
copper berry
And if you want to use dashes while survival, just strafe with your dashes around the enemy!
crisp cloak
do you play with M&K or controller?
crisp cloak
that might explain the strafing, gonna try that out
yeah
maybe going with controller makes dash attack on bow fun. thanks π
copper berry
Try to use a different descriptor for the heinousness of dash at cursor and dash attack π
And yeah the auto aim also helps a ton
crisp cloak
controller has auto-aim?
copper berry
Yep
hard holly
Aye
crisp cloak
! i can see myself beating hydra finally
hard holly
Makes things generally easier
Anyway, Id say the best upgrades, in order, are multishot, perfect shot, sniper shot and pointblank shot
crisp cloak
multishot? haven't had much success with it
but i tend to line up enemies as best i can
i wish it was easier to shotgun enemies with it, like with the special
copper berry
If you wish you could shotgun, then multishot is the way to go.
crisp cloak
so far it never hit more than one realiably
hmm maybe i have to get a lot closer still with MS
copper berry
Triple shot with an Artemis empowered dash right into an enemy is a recipe for success, so long as you dash out right afterwards in the case that they don't instantly die.
crisp cloak
oh another thing: does anyone else get phantom-hit since the update?
i suddenly get hit a lot more by enemies when i think i am out of range allready. sometimes dashing feels a bit delayed as well
copper berry
So a few enemies kind of "slide" with their attack animation. A big offender is the thugs, who can essentially slide after swinging their club to extend its range by a bit.
crisp cloak
yes, thugs are the ones that hit me when i am clearly not in reach of their attack animation
i used to skirt around them with normal walking, but now i feel like i have to dash anyways just to be safe
copper berry
Yeah that is usually for the best. Perhaps they changed the attack point a bit so it has a quicker windup or animation, etc.
crisp cloak
similar thing happens with the bombs i find, dash - attack- dash ends with me being caught in the explosions now, did they reduce their trigger time?
copper berry
The ones thrown by the inferno bombers?
crisp cloak
those as well as their melee-explosion
if it'S only me, then i might have stuttering issues suddenly
copper berry
The melee explosion you have to consider isnt centered on the actual slam dancer, but where their barrel is when it blows up.
crisp cloak
yes, i am merely comparing pre- and post update
i didn't have trouble before, now they trash me if i try to be agressive^^
copper berry
Yep. Maybe I need to do some testing on them to find their attacking radius.
proud storm
copper berry
Get pranked. They don't call them "Order"!
proud storm
(btw it's bc i have tenebrous veil)
crisp cloak
wait the boons react to your heirlooms?
is this true for all of them or just for chaos?
grand patrol
< theres three types of mortals, oh son of hades. those who can count, and those who cannot.
crisp cloak
is the third one to leave without one? π
fast wharf
Rhagius - I find the Ares Attack Boon with the instant shot bow to be good... The delayed damage is great for just poking things and keeping moving, and if you feed Ares Pom's, you'll be chunking for 100 points of damage with it some runs.
crisp cloak
yes, this was the one build that worked quite allright
too bad those effects don'T stack per hit, otherwise bow special could get really fun π
manic ermine
Zeus+double volley fire special does absurd damage
effectively 150% extra damage even at basic boon
fast wharf
it's also a great build with the spear, the poke is so fast and has the hit-stun against non-armored enemies that it's effectively super safe damage... 15+40? Yes Please, and honestly, if you're just poking something to death, it proc's every 3rd hit so it's not like you're missing out on a ton of damage... It'd be broken on the "shotgun multi-shot" 10 arrows all laying on a 40 damage at once? Sounds too good to be true...
night pasture
I feel like the sword is the biggest win-or-lose by the set of boons you find
all of the other weapons I tend to do okay with even if the boons I'd like don't appear
am I just missing some builds with poiseidon/athena/ares I should be looking into?
pastel jolt
the sword gets a lot easier to use if you're willing to blend together normal attacks and the special
the wallslam damage can be nice
night pasture
I gave the empowering nova a whirl a couple runs back but the animation just locks you in place for so long
onyx badger
Poseidonβs knockback with shield special is the best
turbid needle
So far I've cleared with the sword and mostly athena/auto crit stuff, and then with the spear using Ares auto dmg, range increase, and armor pen
armor pen helps a lot with the whole second world
forest marsh
+%dmg to armour is probably more useful now than it used to be since they gave the Hydra summoned heads armour, but it's still not something I normally take over straight +%dmg
Especially when it comes to multiplicative boons
I also didn't mind taking the +%dmg to armour boons before because damage carried over into the regular health bar previously, but since they changed it to a dead stop between health bars it seems less beneficial to my personal playstyle
I'm glad to hear that you've found them helpful for your own playthroughs, though!
Further evidence for how any build has potential
compact venture
Are there more room cosmetic upgrades after you unlock all 4?
forest marsh
Not at the moment, no
The only other "cosmetic upgrades" pertain to Heat runs
Whether they'll add others in the future, only the devs know
dreamy jackal
@fluid moat What exactly is the point of your suggestion? Are you having a problem with How dash work now and want it to be changed? Or you like how it functions and...?
fluid moat
Honestly I think it's identifying aspects of the game that are probably not "intended by the developers" but pointing out things that I REALLY freaking enjoy. I posted a bit of feedback a while back pointing out this exploit of stacking bull rush with the shield and dash attack; they then patched the game to remove the mirror buff for extra dash attack damage and then applied an action lock to bull rush so you can NOT dash out of it until near the end.
basically the tail end of the same exploit I pointed out still exists, and I want the developers to know that the extra mechanistic complexity and enjoyment of nailing that is really rewarding and fun for me
in terms of my hopes beyond that message, I hope they keep a mechanic like that in the game, OR develope a new mechanic that ends up adding to the complexity of what you can do with the limited amount of actions you have to garner advantages that reward solid decision making and mechanics
those are the types of things I look for in games, and the times I have the most fun
which is why I gave that feedback
but my post follows all of the rules and also adheres to their general statement of feedback π
compact venture
@fluid moat Well said, I agree completely.
dreamy jackal
@fluid moat Yeah, you Post was confusing for me. I HAD no idea what itβs supposed to convey. Since itβs neither agree nor disagree, I go with the only choice left.
Anyway, I hope itβs intentionally this way. I do like the way it work previously better, though.
icy edge
How does boon rarity chance stack?
As in, does it just add up, in which case I could possibly get only rare or better with the appropriate keepsake and a good chaos boon, or is there more complicated math involved
twilit narwhal
Anyone have suggestions for beating Meg? I got her down to about 50%, but she eventually killed me with those overlapping circle things
I even had a 22% speed boost potion thing from Charon but it didn't really make me fast enough
lost rose
have you fully upgraded your dash?
twilit narwhal
(Also, I only just got the game yesterday, so I'm probably underleveled)
lost rose
yeah, go for dash upgrades, they'll make meg much easier
twilit narwhal
I was using the shield. it seems to be really good
plush blaze
https://youtu.be/5rPaUfm6MA0 skip to 10 minutes in @twilit narwhal
lost rose
Beating her is mostly about learning her patterns and using your dash well
icy edge
Max dashes recommended, control the space or butcher the summons quick
plush blaze
There's lots of good advice but I thought you might find it useful to see a video
This is no upgrades apart from unlocking the bow
Main trouble with beating meg with one dash is avoiding her AoE whip attack
The rest are manageable but there isn't really any specific advice for those but learning patterns which comes through experience
Extra dashes make a massive difference
gloomy scroll
got the hydra really easy, didn't even use any of the 5!!! death defiances
dapper heart
Yeah, Splitting Bolt is wonderful.
kind prawn
I got splitting bolt on asphodel boat ride. I was clearing waves in seconds AND I was giving them 100% extra HP with heat. it was amazing
crisp cloak
the circles always have the sme timing, you only need one dash and can identify the timing to dodge by their audio cue
twilit narwhal
my problem is that i almost always end up right in a group of them when i am recovering from dash
i did finally beat her at least (once)
crisp cloak
just stand still and dash right before they explode
gloomy scroll
Great job! It takes several attempts (or at least it took me) to really get her patterns down, but eventually youβll know timing and what you can and canβt afford to tank the damage from
crisp cloak
the next ones spawn after you land and you can wait for their explosion before dashing again
don't dash until right before they explode, that way you can't be hit
gloomy scroll
Alternatively once you have max dash upgrade, spam dash when they show up : P
twilit narwhal
also, i've put more hours into hades in one night than i've played pyre in total lol
that's what i ended up doing
i also got super lucky and had zeus buff on my shield throw, plus two damage upgrades on it
still pewter
how do you all feel about projectiles being destructible in general?
forest marsh
I love that projectiles are destructible, it's the only substitute for a block mechanic that Hades really has when not using shield and not including boon dependent deflect
still pewter
don't you think though
that it's a bit polarizing?
how do you make projectiles threatening if they are all destructible?
witches in ashphodel literally fill your screen with them
I think that if they weren't destructible, they could be used in more varied and potentially interesting ways
forest marsh
I think what that comes down to re: threat level is that you're an experienced player and that reflects how you view it. I think for an inexperienced and/or weaker player, making all projectiles invulnerable would be a huge negative
Perhaps that could be a function of the Pacts though? Have an option to make projectiles indestructible
still pewter
tbh, I'm not saying "make all proj destructible"
crisp cloak
having them be destructible gives you more options to tackle the situation
still pewter
in fact, being able to destroy them is pretty fun
I just wonder if it limits the possible designs
crisp cloak
with thrown weapons you have to decide on keeping the weapon to destroy them or throw it for damage
projectile weapons need to time their attacks to hit enemies as well as projectiles
if they weren'T destructible you could not have many of them without completely removing charged attacks
still pewter
Idk. I feel abit iffy about the bow in general. The bow is probably the source of my concerns
Because it's zo reliable at destroying them
crisp cloak
well that is because of it's ability to pierce. if you want him to be less trong at that he has to lose the charge mechanic or have it significantly reduced in charge time
i tried the 300% damage bow with slower charge and i got slaughtered
too much projectiles, hyper agressive enemies and hazards made that build unusable
forest marsh
Yeah, Steady Shot is pretty much a death sentence, huge props to anyone that can clear with it
crisp cloak
weirdly it felt that it was the right amount of damage per shot
but that is likely because if feel the game has trouble with too much hp on everything
a charged shot from the bow should always kill / almost kill base enemies, but you start out needing 4-5
forest marsh
I don't think I agree with that, that would make it way more powerful than the other weapons. I think it's fine where it's at right now being able to kill Numbskulls in one charged shot
There are a lot of ways to make the bow do insane damage as it is, and they aren't too hard to pull of either
crisp cloak
i think it is offset by the ability to usually only hit 1 enemy, compared to the sword and wallslam it takes me 5 times as long to clear rooms with the bow
forest marsh
Even diluting my build heavily with random boons, my last bow run was doing 900 damage on backstab perfect shots by the end
crisp cloak
or maybe rather than increasing the base damage that much, give the damage to the special
so you can have melee risk and damage output by ging in close and shotgunning
forest marsh
Bow special could certainly use some work, I think. I don't know what it would take, but it really doesn't feel satisfying to use in its current state
crisp cloak
when do you get to do backstab perfect shots?
forest marsh
Quite often, as it turns out
crisp cloak
in asphodel there is no more backstabs for me any more
i am lucky if i can charge fully with dashattack
forest marsh
I think that's probably just our respective playstyles, then. I tend to play a relatively close game with bow, dashing constantly to get the best position
crisp cloak
maybe i should go in harder
forest marsh
I always try for perfect shots on the dash attack since your charge time is reduced so much
crisp cloak
but i usually don't get strong bow builds, so going in has no tangible advantage
maybe once i get more essence
me too, maybe i just get boned on enemy spawns
forest marsh
Strong bow builds in my experience rely on +%dmg boons, avoiding straight damage boons. Combine with Triple Shot, Perfect Shot, or Point-Blank Shot from the hammer (for my playstyle, anyway)
crisp cloak
but switching to controller made the game so much more easy with bow, it's actually depressing i wasted my time before
see i went other routes, going for instant charge with zeus or ares flat damage increases
forest marsh
It really does help, though I think I might try KBM for a bit. I was frustrated in the last Hydra fight that I did because I wanted to shoot the projectiles but the auto-aim kept locking on other things and not letting me shoot towards the Hydra
crisp cloak
hoping to find yours with controller now
hmm true
maybe we can train to not move the mouse once auto-targetting reacts to simulate the responsiveness of the controller until we need to manually aim for hydra
forest marsh
It's probably harder gameplay-wise to play up close with the bow, since you have to be much more aware of the attack animations and dash timing, but it pays off with much faster clears
crisp cloak
it feels like spacebar for dash tends to sometimes register a bit late though, so beware
forest marsh
Good to know
crisp cloak
i used to do that with special builds, so nothing new there
oh and if you are using dash a lot for positioning you have to be careful with KBM, you don't have that much control with wasd and using cursor to dash is really not going well with bow-aiming
maybe that works with letting auto-aim take control after dashing though...
gonna try that out now, brb
nah, you would have to disable aim at mouse cursor
and then you can't aim at projectiles again
forest marsh
Not sure if the feedback is still there (will check in a moment), but there was a conversation earlier about adding twin-stick controls for controllers to give a different aiming option more similar to KBM for controller users
Nope, looks like it got nuked so guess that's a non-starter π
compact venture
Weapons Tier List(Based on full clear potential independent of specific boon build) 1. Spear 2. Bow 3. Shield 4. Sword
Agree? What would you guys change?
crisp cloak
pretty much personal preference i guess. i had way less success with bow builds overall
compact venture
@crisp cloak Change dash to right click and turn on dash to cursor. Helps a ton
forest marsh
I think it's more about preference and playstyle than anything re: weapon tiers
crisp cloak
great idea
compact venture
I agree but particularly ranking them on ease of the clear
crisp cloak
oh god... getting musclememory to shut up though...
compact venture
practice on skelly
crisp cloak
i am in the middle of a run π gonna nuke it with thise
forest marsh
But how easy it is to clear will depend on your ability with a given weapon, not it's perceived usefulness
compact venture
I agree! I just feel spear has the easiest way to get high dps
Hydra is basically a dps check
Bow and shield I feel need 2 boons/daedulus to be efficient where spear only needs a single boon to dish out high dps
Was curious if anybody put sword or shield top 2 as I have the least experience with those
pastel jolt
[raises hand]
forest marsh
Cast builds are great fun! I'll do them if the boons present themselves preferentially, but I don't go into a run from the start intending to do a cast build
pastel jolt
aphrodite and ares at the bottom of the stack, everything else it depends on your personal preference/what else you're running imo
autumn tapir
true shot true shot true shot true shot zeus cast true shot
pastel jolt
i want to like shatter shot more, but sorry aphrodite i'll like it more if you ever actually gave me it at rare/epic quality
forest marsh
I would rank Artemis and Zeus casts at the top
still pewter
zeus is the go to imo
pastel jolt
zeus's cast is super-strong but it can be a little unpredictable if you're trying to use it alongside boiling blood
the jumping between enemies means it doesn't always land on the mob you think it will
forest marsh
Artemis is weighted heavily towards being the most beneficial for any cast build, even if you don't take her True Shot. The Quick Reload, Fully Loaded, and Burst Shot boons are invaluable
pastel jolt
i nearly beat meg on my second run of a fresh save because i got an epic zeus cast as my first boon
proud storm
sometimes it'll hit an enemy and land right next to it
still pewter
I think it depends on the presence of other enemies
proud storm
yeah
crisp cloak
i am super hesitant to get casting boons without getting faster drop speed at first
still pewter
if there are any nearby, it will bounce on a wall/ other enemy
pastel jolt
i kinda wish artemis's cast-improving boons only appeared if you already had an improvement to your cast
pastel jolt
i've lost count of the number of times i've been trying to pick up clean kill or hidebreaker to push for her legendary and instead she's offered me, like, true shot/quick reload/fully loaded
forest marsh
@pastel jolt It makes sense for them to appear any time though, because they're still useful for Cast even if you don't have a Cast boon. Unlike the currently broken crit boon after Hunter Dash
proud storm
on a sidenote artemis had clean kill (increased crit damage) once but none of my attacks could crit 
pastel jolt
yeah it's a thing with hunter dash atm
proud storm
i dont remember
pastel jolt
yeah you will have
crisp cloak
people keep mentioning legendaries, is there a way to guarantee them? it sounds like you have to get one in every slot or something
pastel jolt
hunter dash had its crit-giving ability removed but it's still a prereq for clean kill and hidebreaker
still pewter
you can'y guarantee them, but you kidna have to go after them
forest marsh
Not guarantee, no, but there are prerequisites before they will show up @crisp cloak
still pewter
it's not random how they spawn, you need to meet some criteria
forest marsh
You can see the prereq's for each Legendary on the wiki page for each god
crisp cloak
sweet, thanks!
pastel jolt
oh make sure you use the gamepedia wiki not the fandom one
https://hades.gamepedia.com/Aphrodite for example
crisp cloak
so yeah, it'S basically a devotion factor. you need enough different boons from the same god
still pewter
kinda yeah
forest marsh
Sort of... It still has to be specific ones, not just any
crisp cloak
a bit like a skill tree
forest marsh
Yeah
pastel jolt
but yeah, you could pick up as many zeus boons as you wanted but if you never got storm lightning you'd never see splitting bolt
crisp cloak
kinda glad it's not required to have the %increases before this works
so this makes god-boon keepsakes actually useful when aiming for a specific build
restart until you get the first one you want from the first room^^
still pewter
I think I'd enjoy random legendary boons
forest marsh
Yup
I don't build-hunt like that, though
I like to just take whatever the game gives me and see how it plays out
crisp cloak
same here, but i felt keepsakes from the gods were useless before, so atleast you can do this to spice things up
pastel jolt
i usually know what kind of build i'm aiming for, but if the game doesn't give me what i need then hey, i'm adaptable
crisp cloak
only thing i really always would want at the start of the run is a daedalus hammer
forest marsh
Oh, I still take god keepsakes, don't get me wrong, I think they're quite useful
pastel jolt
i mean, god keepsakes aren't useless. they're specifically for targeting certain gods for certain builds
forest marsh
I'm currently starting the long process of grinding all the keepsakes
crisp cloak
i don't enjoy switching my playstyle mid run, i like to get into the groove
forest marsh
Which will take me quite a while given how infrequently I play π
wanton raptor
i cannot beat hydra , i suck lmao
copper berry
It's okay, we all start from somewhere 
wanton raptor
condering that this is my first rouge like game
errant narwhal
how many runs have you done?
icy edge
A tip for people struggling with the Hydra - the cast is your best friend
With the mirror buff and a hard hitting cast like athena and artemis... or just a rare or better ares, you should be fine
icy edge
50 runs of experience and I clear hydra every other run (usually die before it on the ones I dont win)
hard holly
Jokes aside though, you will be hit by a few attacks practically no matter what
icy edge
This ^
hard holly
But so long as you dont take too long to kill it, thats fine
Also, learn its attacks
The arrows can be either wallblocked, dodged through or erased
The headslam attack is slow and easily dodged
Not sure what you can do about the lunge though
icy edge
You can athena parry most of the small head attacks, including seeds and fireballs
icy edge
Dunno, I like not thinking about big boyo when he's invincible so I need to survive for a bit in the hot zone until a head or two dies
Walls are by far the best cure for projectiles
wanton raptor
um more than 20
glossy slate
I just made it to the Hydra fight and where is my safety wall
forest marsh
On the plus side you can destroy the Hydra projectiles @glossy slate
glossy slate
I appreciate Boiling Blood
Surprisingly, Shield lends itself better to Poseidon and Aphrodite than Athena
hollow totem
Just do heat runs
Till youre good at the game
Then cake walk the hydra on 0 heat
Nice thanks autocorrect
Good job keep it up
glossy slate
Get Rekt until you Git Gudβ’
forest marsh
You do have to beat the Hydra at least once before you can do that, though π
glossy slate
the changes to enemy armor and Boiling Blood stealth buffed Aphrodite I love this
you have to get a win to unlock the contract
hollow totem
Ob i thought it was available from the start
Did not know
This is the big unlucky
forest marsh
Pact doesn't unlock until you've beaten the Hydra, yeah
copper berry
Yep. Truly is unfortunate. However if you instantly attack again after the dash, it will have a superfast thrust that will benefit from it.
hard holly
Yup, its only dash attacks
forest marsh
Sorry for dashing your hopes and dreams, Doc
hard holly
Its a shame, but that is not the point of the new Hunter's Dash
glossy slate
I understand, I'm just mildly disappointed that I wasted a dash upgrade on a spear run
although I'm seriously enjoying the Aphro shotgun > Poke, poke, poke strat
vivid wasp
What are some successful builds with the sword? I am struggling with it pretty hard right now.
errant narwhal
go with zeus
errant narwhal
it worked for me, i can never beat the hydra and i did it with zeus and flurry blade
wanton raptor
what about spear
errant narwhal
also, heat just makes the game more difficult so youre not missing out on very much haha
glass plume
i'm in love with shield with ares
wanton raptor
any recommendations for spear ?
glass plume
athena work's just fine
hard holly
Id say Zeus is not the best recommendation for sword
Because at that point its flurry blade or bust
glossy slate
if you get flurry blade, Zeus up as soon as possible
otherwise I'm a fan of Poseidon special cheese
glossy slate
just massive damage AoE
fire the Bass Cannon
world splitter is life
but unfortunately you can't always guarantee it
hard holly
True
Its interesting to see though
How the world is split on flurry blade vs Worldsplitter
errant narwhal
i mean theyre both good
glossy slate
I gotta say I'm really excited about the number of damage amp sources we have now
errant narwhal
just with different builds
hard holly
I mean, overall damage is still down from old patches
But its more even
Minus the fact that bow is a bit ludicrous
glossy slate
getting Boiling Blood, Sweet Surrender, Skull Earring, Hunter's Dash, and an attack boost all stacked onto the same enemy is delicious
and it encourages mixing your attacks instead of just dash spamming forever
forest marsh
Chaos is fun, if you haven't experienced it yet
glossy slate
I've been into Chaos once so far and they look fantastic
the ripple effect on the sprite and the VO
hard holly
Hammer, 100%
glossy slate
I went with hammer and got Steady Shot
glossy slate
it's stacking multiplicatively with Divine Strike
glossy slate
crunching everyone for near 400 damage a shot without backstab or Boiling Blood
hammer upgrades all change the base damage of the weapon, all further buffs modify the new value
glossy slate
definitely not
if they were, a perfect shot would be dealing 240 + 80 damage right now, since I have Divine Strike at 100%%
hard holly
On the other hand if it were multiplicative, it would be 480
Wait no
Wouldnt it be just 240
And if it were additive, it would do 160
No wait, 200
This is confusing
copper berry
I gave up long ago trying to truly calculate what gets multiplied when and how.
I just take triple shot and shoot.
I will say that (as far as I understand) Daedalus hammer upgrades don't quite modify the base value of the weapon, so much as they give you a new entire weapon. Each upgrade is its own unique weapon of sorts, hence a lot of the silly modifiers.
glossy slate
well I'm about to roll up on the Hydra with a ton of Athena upgrades, almost no health, disabled healing, and more damage than God
frosty pier
And how it went?
glossy slate
screwed
made it to last phase and it was nothing but spawners
which was kinda the worst turnout for a Steady Shot build
frosty pier
Yup pretty much
glossy slate
I was getting 600 damage chunks out with Boiling Blood though, which felt nice
hard holly
How much heat did you go for?
chrome viper
big F
frosty pier
Welp, atleast you can do something with that stick with a string to it.
glossy slate
I did notice that you can cheese heals out with Chaos though
anything that takes away your max health will heal you when it refunds
frosty pier
But you still pay to enter soooo yeah reliable as Chaos
glossy slate
even still, if the health reduction takes you below your current health
you'll be filled completely once it wears off
assuming you don't take damage in the meantime
Blood Gates can appear in the entrance hall now!?
frosty pier
You mean starting room?
frosty pier
Well yeah, it was like that since update dropped if my friend rng was right and there was no bull
glossy slate
I'm taking things a bit slowly for now until I shake the rust off
haven't played in almost a month after all
hard holly
Fair
fervent quartz
wow, the dash cooldown is waaaay lower than I'd assumed https://gfycat.com/MerryUnitedAcornweevil
pastel jolt
zagreus is a speedy boy
gloomy scroll
I almost had my first bow win but got too close to a hydra head and died
forest marsh
Wow, what are the chances that I would get both Megagorgon and Murderboat in the same run? π
This is my very silly build that I'm running https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444641167485829120/541415048866693131/Hades_00019.png
forest marsh
@twilit narwhal With practice you'll find the bow is quite powerful. As I'm writing this, I just cleared Meg in somewhere around 1 minute, maybe less, using bow. Keep at it and you'll persevere!
Practice the dash-attack though, it charges much faster than regular
And don't be afraid to get in close and use your dash-attack to get backstabs
twilit narwhal
i am not sure what a dash attack is
forest marsh
It's where you dash and then use your Attack right after. All weapons have a dash attack
twilit narwhal
hmm
i always feel like there's an animation cooldown happening whenever i stop dashing
forest marsh
Dash attacks:
Bow - Quicker charge on attack after dashing
Shield - 2 attacks in quick succession (have to press attack twice) after dashing
Sword - Thrust on attack after dashing
Spear - Quick thrust on attack after dashing (not 100% on the difference for this one, but it is different than normal spear thrust)
The cooldown on dashing is negating by the fact that you're charging your attack, which eats frames regardless
So it's combining the dash to avoid enemies with the charge time for the bow
If that makes sense
twilit narwhal
hmm
i will have to maybe play around with that later
right now, i have to get back to rebuilding all this cloud infrastructure
forest marsh
Good luck!
I'm playing like garbage, but this build itself is a fun example of a bow build https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/444641167485829120/541457976138006529/Hades_00020.png
turbid needle
I beat a run with 25 heat today thanks to an Epic Ares attack boon. Im gonna try 27 heat next, but I doubt I'll succeed without either an Epic Zeus or Ares attack boon, or a Rare equivalent if I get it in the early-game
worn owl
I do not understand Hunter's dash at all
forest marsh
What do you mean? That is, what don't you understand about it?
worn owl
It modifies dash damage.... But prevents you from having a dash that deals damage
forest marsh
That's not what it does
It modifies your dash attack damage
That is, an attack performed immediately after a dash
I listed all the dash attacks just a few messages up in this channel
The game itself probably needs to do better at explaining what a dash attack is, though
worn owl
It could just like add it to the Skelly tutorial
forest marsh
Yeah, that would be ideal
The reason that Hunter Dash is so good for bow is that the "right" way of playing bow uses almost entirely dash attack
As for the other weapons, I think maybe only Shield will benefit in any meaningful way from Hunter Dash, since the dash attack on shield is so much more superior than its normal attack, but also does appreciable damage. Whereas the Spear and Sword dash attacks are pretty weak, so even at +100% damage aren't doing a lot
loud trout
Is there an aspect of "countering" right before an enemy attack?
Something like Bastion's shield counter
twilit narwhal
i have to play around with the dash attacks, because i am clearly not doing something correctly there (also it's not entirely clear what they are)
forest marsh
No, there's no counter as such in this game. There is Deflect, but you have to have the boon to do it
forest marsh
@twilit narwhal I made a short video showing dash attack with bow, if that's helpful to you https://streamable.com/kgzuq
twilit narwhal
Yeah, thanks. I think i have it down (ish), but i'm still slow at it
question: how often does it happen that you get all the way to meg without getting a boon from a god? I am currently on a run that has only given keys and darkkness
and two pom things
one of which i had to buy from charon
forest marsh
It happens occasionally, though you must have gotten a boon if you found poms?
I could be mistaken, but I thought 
only appear after you have a boon 
mellow aurora
is it me or is the spear dash attack super hard to land?
id get the artemis dash attack boon but the spear dash attack is difficult to hit
forest marsh
I don't think Hunter Dash is worthwhile with Spear, to be honest
mellow aurora
ok so it is too hard to land then
forest marsh
I don't think it's a matter of landing the hit, though whether or not you are using KBM or controller may factor into that, I think it's more that the spear's base damage isn't very high, and dash attack with spear isn't as useful as with bow or shield compared to normal or charged spear attacks
Just my opinion, though
The example being a bow dash-attack with power shot will do 40 damage base, while spear does 15. With base Hunter Dash, that would translate to 80 vs 30
With spear you're better off just using regular attacks or the charged attack
mellow aurora
ok i tested it
it is easier to land it when you are using a keyboard
but a common tip in the menus is that using a controller is recommended
also spear dash is not very useful
its not much faster than a normal thrust and it is much hard to land
forest marsh
I think the reasoning behind that recommendation is that autoaim on the controller makes the fights easier for the largest amount of people
Not to say that the autoaim is perfect
mellow aurora
this may be subjective but my hand is cramping after testing the spear dash attack lol
forest marsh
Ha ha no doubt. My thumb gets sore after playing a run with the bow from all the A > X (hold) > Repeat
mellow aurora
like seriously the input technicality of the dash attack is harder than a short hop attack in smash bros
forest marsh
I don't think the inputs are that hard to hit for dash attack
It's literally just Dash > Attack
mellow aurora
duuude test it -_-
forest marsh
I use dash attack constantly
mellow aurora
im talking about spear dash attack
forest marsh
Yeah, I tested that when you were asking about it, since I was in the Skelly room anyway after recording that bow dash-attack short clip
It's harder to land the hits than bow, I'll give you that, but I don't think it's so bad
mellow aurora
bow, shield, and sword dash attacks are much easier
forest marsh
Yes, that is true
There really isn't much point to using spear dash attack right now, though
It doesn't really give any tangible benefit that I can tell
mellow aurora
you are right though about the hunter dash boon for spear. i just tried it one day and thought it was weirdly hard to land
forest marsh
I think part of that might be the way Hades handles input buffering combined with the animation cycles for the spear
I should try Hunter Dash with shield some time... I'm curious if it will proc on both of the quick attacks or just the first
Regardless, it would be useful for Shield I think, since it has a high base damage and the dash attack on shield is far and away better than regular attack
Regular shield attack feels so clunky
mellow aurora
yeeeah shield dash attack is super good.
it wouldnt proc hunter dash on both hits though
the second hit is technically a basic attack
using shield on the death gondola is super fun. just pick off a priority enemy from the crowd and smash it to pieces against a far wall
glossy slate
if you get the chance, my most fun run was a shield with Poseidon/Aphrodite
stacked about 350 health with a ton of damage resistance and knockback
forest marsh
I don't think I've ever heard it referred to as a gondola 
Murderboat is my term of choice, on account of it sailing through the Phlegethon
Hey Doc, how are you liking the update?
mellow aurora
ive been trying to get a poseiden run with the shield but no luck
forest marsh
Until you knock an enemy out of bounds and get stuck 
mellow aurora
@forest marsh when i said gondola i had one of those phat party boats in mind lol
twilit narwhal
thank god for automation, because lord knows i did not want to spend my saturday night manually installing docker clients on all these damn servers
forest marsh
@mellow aurora Ah, I see. A gondola is typically suspended in the air on a cable used for transport up and down slopes or across gaps
Though I guess those narrow boats they use in canals are also called gondolas, aren't they?
Words are weird
mellow aurora
yep its a row boat
twilit narwhal
(Reading database ... 60069 files and directories currently installed.
oh hey, it just finished
copper lynx
Hey guys, is the dash supposed to not have a backswing when timed correctly?
It seems like you can dash a few times in a row if you dash again right as the previous dash's backswing animation starts
I don't remember it doing that in the previous patch
fresh vortex
Is the triple shot bow still effective or it took a huge nerf?
glossy slate
still effective, just with a different job
they widened the spread so you can't shotgun single enemies with it
real good for handling swarms though
fresh vortex
Okay so you have to get closer to hit at least 2 arrows
And the instant shot with -20% damage isn't worth it? Like for example if you manage to get a bonus attack from Chaos
glossy slate
I don't know about that one, never tried it
crisp cloak
used that and got almost through hydra without dash-attacking and hardly any upgrades, but you need direct damage procs for it to be worth it. like ares or zeus
wanton raptor
still cannot kill hydra lmao
crisp cloak
don't worry it's pretty much always based around getting lucky with boons and upgrades. i just died to hydra with a weak spear build because it took forever to kill heads and hydra itself and the permanently spawning adds and attacks just whittled me down over time
plush blaze
Triple shot bow is still the best from a speedrun perspective
twilit narwhal
does meg have some kind of special attack that makes you run real slow?
like 25% of your normal run speed?
grand patrol
nope, but chaos boons can slow you down
twilit narwhal
well, i didn't have that
grand patrol
weird...
twilit narwhal
i was going fine until she was down to about half health
and then suddenly i was walking around at a quarter of the speed
even my dashes were slow
grand patrol
that might be lag π€
twilit narwhal
like, three dashes couldn't get me out of the purple circles
well, everyone else was moving around regular speed
needless to say, my run ended at that point
twilit narwhal
also, that run i had one of those little purple cauldron shops
and it had a thing for 500 coins
how on earth do you get that many coins?
grand patrol
theres a way!
grand patrol
coin purse, chaos boons that double your money value....its possible to have 500 coins
lost rose
there's mirror upgrades, plus the coin purse, that could maaaybe get you up to that much that quickly? if you got lucky with coin boons
tulip timber
Regarding the earlier gondola conversation, I think the boat versions are pole-boats, not row boats. Which is how Charon is typically depicted: with a big long pole for pushing the boat along. Sometimes he has an oar or oars, but I think it's usually just a big stick.
grand patrol
(whacks the side of the boat with the pole) go faster boat (whacks it again) i said go faster
tulip timber
Yah, boat, yah!
twilit narwhal
so one other question. Sometimes the little orb thing for choosing the next room has a skull on it
what does that mean?
grand patrol
means the room is harder!
frosty pier
If you think about Charon in-game...Man has all that money... Why didnt he buy a motorboat
tulip timber
Elite room. Either stronger enemies or mini-boss.
I think he has a motor-boat. That's how he gets ahead of you later in your run.
Mini-boss depends on what room in your run you're on I think. Asphodel Death Boat / Giant Gorgon tend to show up at about the same time. Same with the two bombers/slam dancers in Tartarus.
If you're outside that time you just get a bunch of shielded dudes usually. And more of them.
If it's a double-boon skull room, it will be the latter every time: more dudes and strong dudes.
Skull Crushers with "You made poseidon angry" buff is my new most-hated thing.
twilit narwhal
which one is skull crushers?
tulip timber
The Thwomps.
Jump up to the ceiling, shadow chases you around, falls on your head.
And then with Poseidon dashes all over the damn place.
tulip timber
I'm better with them now, but they are still the least fun to address.
frosty pier
Sometimes I think I have a bias towards some weapons...
http://prntscr.com/mg1onj
Mehhh madness i dont have a bias.
twilit narwhal
where do you see that in game?
frosty pier
Right after you finish a run
frosty pier
Ehhh It's a road with few stops, eventually you will do it
icy edge
Like when you learn not to take chaos boons that sap health on attack right before meg when your build is attack based
grand patrol
playing it safe, oh son of hades
frosty pier
...I mean
grand patrol
im jk jhgjhgfjhjh its SO annoying when ur chaoscursed in a boss room
frosty pier
I sometimes do something like that, but usually i blank out at exact moment of picking something...
icy edge
It would've been soooo good if I had lived
Like 40% crit with triple shot and a weak effect on special
proud storm
one thing i hate the most abt skullcrushers though im not sure if they actually do that or if i'm just blind*
when their shadow starts to appear above you but they crash down on you before you actually see their shadow
errant narwhal
I took a dash boon from chaos before meg once
I was like 100% sure I would die
but I survived. I usually spamdash so I have no idea how lol
grand patrol
sometimes chaos wants to give meg a gift uwu
frosty pier
I more hate about crushers these times then they have an anxiety attack and just dont fall on you.
grand patrol
once or twice ive gotten a skullcrusher to fall in lava amd i wish i could figure out the trick to it
without, yknoe, stepping in lava
frosty pier
LIKE COME ON THERE IS LIKE 4 OF YOU FALL DAMMIT
proud storm
well unless i beat hydra taking less than 3-4 hits i'm done for again sdfgjgk
MOM!!!!!! MOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://i.imgur.com/WyCMSZ7.jpg
IM ON THE FLOOR
I DID IT
HITLESS HYDRA
frosty pier
Nice
frosty pier
Just dont post final reward here plz
proud storm
the statue it's,,,,
it's magnificnt
ok i took screenshots of the dialogue as well
let me put that all together
tulip timber
Post in Spoilars. π
errant narwhal
you could also upload it with spoiler tag in spoilers, yeah!
tulip timber
I'm constantly impressed by Skelly's ability to talk with a coin in his mouth.
Thanks for doing that @proud storm
night pasture
would you be willing to share your pact setup?
proud storm
yes one sec
it's not really mine tho someone helped me set it up correctly
here's the pact https://i.imgur.com/SWxugCb.png
and here's my mirror https://i.imgur.com/Fhi5NOM.png
i start with zeus' keepsake and finish with meg's keepsake
zeus' lightning strike depletes death insurance in one hit instead of 2 and is overall rly powerful and rly good at clearing rooms
tulip timber
Okay, the spawned bouncy lightning, not the skybolt.
proud storm
yeah the bouncy lightning one
if you're lucky enough you'll get it early in tartarus
tulip timber
I think of the dash / special bolt as a strike.
proud storm
from there you must work on upgrading lightning strike as much as possible
eat a lotta poms
you dont really need any other boons
tulip timber
I imagine play very conservative too. Since no heals. All damage must be applied safely.
Did you do hellboat?
proud storm
yes you gotta be really careful
i had super dusa
but not the boat
avoid the boat if you can
at the end of my run i had lv6 lightning strike + skull earring which would give me like ~95 damage per spear attack
proud storm
well it did help me a bit until i got to zeus
tulip timber
Super dusa is doable. I appreciate that dusa bolts are friendly fire.
Even without reflect.
proud storm
it's easy but it's stressful
tulip timber
Once I figured that out I appreciated the skullcrusher in super-dusa fight a lot more.
proud storm
bc it's equally easy to screw up and lose one or 2 death defies
tulip timber
Yeah. Will be really interested to see how FAST people can start clearing 120 heat. That'll be some serious skill application.
Since unlike no heat runs you can't just run in and slap everything to death.
Unless you are very skilled.
proud storm
heat runs are the opposite of regular runs in one thing
you WANT to find survival rooms
like in asphodel i'd spend around 2 or even 3 minutes clearing a single room
just so that i wouldnt get hit
tulip timber
Got it.
I wonder if there will be more Heat fetters; like slower Zag movement speed or faster enemies.
In future releases.
And what they'll do with the heat cap.
Or.... can you go over 120, even though there are no further statues? π
stable oyster
Thoughts on 2 dash vs 3 for darkness limited builds
proud storm
dont think i wouldve gotten past hydra with just 2 dashes tbh
i mean it depends on how much heat you have
tulip timber
I think most people (myself included) max dash first on mirror. It's a game-changing, core mechanic. I dunno how I'd do without now after so much play on 3 dashes.
It's hard enough when you get Chaos "no dashes" fetter. π
forest marsh
I only like to take no dash Chaos debuff if I'm using shield, 'cause at least I can bull rush out of danger still
forest marsh
RIP @wanton raptor
wanton raptor
I AM SO ANGRY
forest marsh
Hopefully the save is ok
wanton raptor
i was doing so well for the first time
yeah i hope @forest marsh
im gonna check it out
forest marsh
@wanton raptor if it doesn't load your progress, before you do anything else in-game try this fix https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/521144863023169536/523221207345266688
wanton raptor
oh thank you , shall try β€
forest marsh
Check first though, don't want to overwrite anything if you don't have to
wanton raptor
yeah
yaaay
thank god
its here
i would be pissseeed hahaha
thank you for the help though β€
forest marsh
Glad to hear your save survived! 
wanton raptor
omg i did it again
with a sword deflect build haha
the special hit something like 230 and it deflected everything
sorry to spam
hybrid kestrel
night pasture
athena's legendary is the bee's knees for the hydra fight
that's what all the hip young people say nowadays right
"bee's knees"?
night pasture
if you get two balls of ariadne, will they just both be consumed at once on the next boon?
worn owl
They will both be used up
Dunno if the additional one helps anything
Haha I had my first clear today too, and second, and third. All thanks to learning about the dash attacks here
Bow is too easy
forest marsh
The last time I had 2, all my choices on the next boon were epic
icy edge
I finally got my first legendary, Ares', and it lived up to its name
I walked through a field of churning, buzzing death
twilit narwhal
well, i switched to the bow for a run, just to see
is there a hotkey for screenshots?
or just print screen?
lost rose
F11
twilit narwhal
ok thanks .finally found the save location too
wish that was configurable
Finally beat murderboat with this
that next room was stupid. bunch of those dropping guys. And also a bucnh of witches shooting godawful amounts of purple orbs
like, 5 sets of 3 or something ridiculous?
twilit narwhal
I am finally over 100 kills per run (average)
worn owl
Is relentless barrage good?
I always avoided it because of how bad the vanilla special is
night pasture
I would say it doesn't address the biggest drawback of the vanilla special which is the long wind down time before you can move again
I've done most of my clears with bow and I basically don't even touch the special
worn owl
Same
hard holly
Its good for cheesy builds
But since all but 2 of bows attack upgrades are good
You almost never have a reason to pick it
night pasture
I think it would be better as a shotgun blast instead of a fan of arrows but I'm sure that would present its own balancing challenges
I ain't no game designer
primal jolt
beat meg! yeet
grand patrol
yeets meg out of tartarus
primal jolt
get her outta there
night pasture
I don't THINK there's anything mechanically in place to make meg easier after the first time you beat her
but once I got that first win it certainly felt much easier in subsequent runs
worn owl
It definitely took me a few wins to feel like I knew what I was doing
I think until I had a good deflect thing to use against her charges I wasn't really able to take in everything that was going on
glass plume
meg is a piece of cake compared to hydra where i can't simply find my character during last phases
grand patrol
baby pot do do do do do do baby pot
grand patrol
this guy is a nac mac feegle from the discworld series
proud storm
also this is what i was looking for https://i.imgur.com/SVLsEsQ.png
i always thought it was a sword but it's just meg viewed from the back
i think
hard holly
I don't think megs hair is that long
turbid needle
Two wings ?
pliant hawk
Meg only has one wing xP
proud storm
well maybe she's compensating
grand patrol
Could be the fury logo?
hard holly
Honestly I'm leaning towards Nyx
grand patrol
the emblem of the three of em....i guess well find out if we fight a second fury
altho if nyx has standuppy hair and bat wings for arms and feet that rocks too
proud storm
grand patrol
jdjfjg oopsie
proud storm
grand patrol
AAAAAA!!!!!! THE GAME SAID AAS??????????
proud storm
:////
grand patrol
proxy: deletes supergiant
proud storm
proxy single-handedly cancels hades
forest marsh
Proxy has no problem with asses, though
grand patrol
noclip goes to sgg to film..."supergiant office? this lots been abandoned for years!"
forest marsh
Truly the butt of the joke
proud storm
also i got that one rememberance about meg yesterday or something https://i.imgur.com/DO4KQzK.jpg
twilit narwhal
So, I'm chatting with Charon, and there's a thing here saying that there's a foe of unimaginable power beyond. I assume that's the Hydra? Either that or I've seriously underestimated this game.
Here's my build: https://i.imgur.com/dj7Kqcv.png
worn owl
It's hydra
The color coding of the heads is very important
Green is the highest priority to kill
fossil elm
can you elaborate @worn owl
proud storm
green heads spit out lava eggs that spawn bloodless if left unchecked
pink heads throw fireballs at the ground that become lava puddles
white heads just slam the ground if you're near them
forest marsh
You can destroy the eggs to prevent the Bloodless spawning, you'll see a countdown timer above each one
They only have like, 50 hp per egg
proud storm
also all the heads can bite you if you're right next to them
worn owl
Yeah white and pink you can just leave alone till you are ready to deal with them
Green kinda presses the issue
Honestly the pink is almost beneficial if bloodless do spawn
And White's attack is so short range you can ignore it until the rest are gone
fossil elm
so the color of the heads during the fight or beforew
twilit narwhal
during
fossil elm
ah
twilit narwhal
there are different colored heads that spawn
it's chaotic to say the least
that green head is also really hard to kill
fossil elm
good to know
forest marsh
It may be easier to look at the necks when differentiating the heads, too. The colour on the heads themselves isn't always easy to parse
worn owl
I still have difficulty realizing I need to attack the shadows under the head
Instead of the heads themselves
forest marsh
Oh, you must be using KBM?
tulip timber
So this has no doubt been mentioned. But because in Tartarus you defeat "Fury," and not "Megara," reasonable chance we'll get to fight her sisters on release? π
forest marsh
Just a guess, but we can certainly hope so! It's mentioned that the other Furies are above fighting a war, though
tulip timber
True, but it's also mentioned that "Parts of Hades are under renovation."
proud storm
inb4 the game doesnt actually end when you reach the surface but only when you get to olympus
tulip timber
I think it's better to have fewer floors with multiple boss options than more floors with guaranteed bosses on each floor.
autumn tapir
why not more floors with multiple boss options π€
tulip timber
Because if it's too long then most people can't finish with any consistency.
forest marsh
I think multiple potential bosses per biome would be cool, but I wouldn't expect them to implement that this early
tulip timber
And that's not fun for most people.
forest marsh
I would tend to think that they'd want to keep the average playtime per complete run to under an hour
For the finished game
tulip timber
I'd agree with that. Probably closer to 45 minutes.
While being able to save mid-run and pick it up later is good, I'm terrible at it.
I'll have a good run I have to leave, and I'll come back and just tank it.
forest marsh
That being said, there's room for 2-3 times as many areas as we have while staying within that timeframe
Not saying they have to/they will make that many
tulip timber
Yup, agreed. And they have some wiggle room on shortening "filler" rooms in the current floors.
Which increases the boss concentration. There's a lot of levers for changing how a "run" goes and feels.
I'm excited to see what changes as the content expands.
forest marsh
I would be surprised if they didn't make at least 4 biomes total though
That being Elysium and then some final (?) area
tulip timber
That's something I think early access can really help you narrow in on. It's like focus group testing; what is the optimal length, how long between bosses, when does reward frequency have diminishing returns, etc.
forest marsh
I'm certain they have a pretty solid game plan for how long/how many areas they're making already
But the EA definitely helps with balancing and reward structure
tulip timber
Yeah. And by length, I meant # of room choices before boss.
forest marsh
Balance is going to be a real kick in the pants I think once we get the next area
tulip timber
Also, where things are offered. I'm not sure the length / room selection for what is currently available will be comparable to final.
forest marsh
Right now it feels like most times if you're reaching the Hydra that you have a pretty solid build, or else you're already doomed
tulip timber
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
forest marsh
At the same time, it's easy to pretty much max out on boons on some runs before you reach the Hydra if you don't get a lot of poms or other non-boon rooms
tulip timber
I dunno, maybe this isn't the way most companies run early access. But I think it would be interesting to do one-week-builds that don't add / remove anything, but just tweak baseline numbers.
forest marsh
I'll be curious to see how they address that with more rooms added
tulip timber
Which, I think is something we can do in some of the files anyway.
forest marsh
Oh, you can absolutely tweak numbers in the files if you want to π
tulip timber
Yeah, I dunno. I could see doing a week of "Is this more fun? Or is this?"
formal hill
oh man it never occured to me that the rooms dont stack w eye of lamia
i thought it was extra rooms, not extra chance
twilit narwhal
:aaa: Fighting hydra. Get the two first heads, no big deal. Next spawn 2x green heads
use up all my deaths defiance
two more green heads spawn
...
turbid needle
Yeah. Hydra can be a bastard.
onyx badger
lol
worn owl
I am honestly not sure what the deal is with this: https://i.imgur.com/ZJpZomD.jpg
so many Zeus boons!
but storm lightening didn't even show up until the second from last
plush blaze
You've been,
thunderstruuuck
ancient minnow
Jesus, so much flashing onscreen
worn owl
and that last one only had two options, no legendary
twilit narwhal
oh man, the legendary zeus boon is so good
i had that, the thing that shoots lightning when y ou attack, the one when you dash, and the one when you special. when i was doing a run with my shield (my first time getting to hydra)
pure fox
i reached hydra for the first time today https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/485456035859922974/541964612715675651/Hades_00057.png
twilit narwhal
nice
proud storm
just noticed i completed my first 120 heat run on my 99th attempt
lost rose
i haven't even managed to grind the 60 heat i need to play on 60 heat mode yet...
icy edge
Im trying a 20 heat run to get my 1st statue, but a lack of keys means the only one i could reasonably play is the one with enemy damage... meaning zag needs to be REALLY light on his feet
lost rose
i do actually think i could manage 60 heat though, if i ever get there
now, 120......120 is different.
i kinda wanna sit on what i have till the next update drops though
never know when you're gonna need more ambrosia
i had like 7 stockpiled and every single one went to chaos lol
proud storm
poseidon is not sexy https://i.imgur.com/sCawU2K.jpg
grand patrol
< i know sexy, and posiedon is not it. you are not olympus's next top model
lost rose
i like how chaos thinks poseidon is actually the worst of the three brothers.
proud storm
well they dont actually say it
lost rose
chaos: gets a little too salty
chaos: oh i'd better put an "it would seem" on that
proud storm
this is what they say abt zeus https://i.imgur.com/XNgF8l5.jpg
lost rose
yeah i think i've seen that one before actually
there is more on heaven and earth than...heaven and earth,
proud storm
with hades theyre like
"ok son of hades, let's make your father's life more miserable than it already is"
lost rose
they dislike all their progeny equally
except zag
grand patrol
zag: i have done nothing wrong, ever, in my life
chaos: i know this, and i love you