@upbeat coyote 1st 12 words of ur feedback got me
#h1-builds-and-combat
wary parrot
wary parrot
yo guys for how long win streak should i go?
finite nova
9
hybrid kestrel
i was spamming dodge button at the VERY start of the run. you know, to "skip" the loading screen =P
what i noticed is zag did a roll animation (the one he does in house of hades if you press the attack button) and it said "perfect landing" on zag's head
has anyone noticed this, is there any benefits?
if no, why not? =D
hybrid kestrel
i think we should lobby for a bonus or benefit or something
south comet
you can always make a feedback post about it!
altho personally i like it as a small little feature that doesnt give benefits
somber epoch
what if there was a perfect landing counter
wary parrot
@finite nova sadly i already got 17 :c
somber epoch
too good, streak invalid
worn fulcrum
take 1 damage at the start of each run if you don't perfect land
hybrid kestrel
i'd rather have them give extra 1 health to those who perfect land
rewarding is always better than punishing
still pewter
wow distant memory is actually suuuuper generous
glad moat
hello, can someone tell me what ranks are? like when you go to the mirror to upgrade? i must've missed the explanation
still pewter
the mirror can give you various power ups
you unlock the powe ups with keys
and rank them up by using darkness
darkness is a resource you collect on your attempts to escape, it is a purple sorta thing
meager lotus
Ranks are also for keepsakes, right?
The more rooms you complete with any one keepsake, the higher the rank will eventually become
Weapons also have ranks I think?
My sword now gives me +10% darkness for some reason
novel kiln
No, weapons don't have ranks
When you don't use a weapon for a few runs you get a bonus to it (it's even shown in the room with Skelly) to encourage you to switch
meager lotus
Oh, gotcha
Lol I love the sword, I just don't use it because it's so hard to time with the lag I'm getting
With the others I can use the lag to at least charge up an attack, releasing it when the game catches up
Next level strats I know 
jade estuary
Why is sword +10% darkness?
is that beacuse it's weak? I noticed it too
Also it's so hard to get cast powerups sometimes....
I feel like Zeus is the best for cast
rustic ingot
Weapons are randomly getting +10% darkness, probably to make the player use every weapon
lost rose
@jade estuary It's a mechanic called Dark Thirst; like hit4leak said, it's meant to encourage players to switch weapons between runs. you can tell which weapon will have the powerup before a given run by looking for the swirl of darkness around it when it's sitting in the weapon room
pastel jolt
@violet stirrup i feel like your feedback falls flat on the fact that the example you use already synergises
violet stirrup
Ah
pastel jolt
splitting bolt is zeus's legendary
violet stirrup
Yeah that's a pretty terrible example
pastel jolt
the tier-tree system is already designed to put in synergy
like how you can get ares's blade rift cast, then get a boon that makes it home, then get his legendary and have it draw enemies in
pastel jolt
poseidon's knockback boons can be made to stun, and then be made to knock back a second time
violet stirrup
But not for gods
pastel jolt
you basically want the higher tier boons without actually having to acquire the boons for it,,
pastel jolt
sure
violet stirrup
alright
pastel jolt
oh btw i mentioned i got splitting bolt on my 15-heat run the other day and i finally got around to uploading the video of that
i really like splitting bolt
lost rose
What do you mean? Like in combat?
still pewter
nah
pastel jolt
points at my video to say yes it does
pastel jolt
you can see that when i dodge, there's yellow orbs bouncing around even though i haven't attacked
still pewter
I saw the video, I thought you did like a dash attack in between
pastel jolt
nope! just dashing
hard holly
Thats jank
Because Im pretty sure you cant get bolt-related boons with just the dodge
pastel jolt
you cannot, so far as i know
i'd have to double-check the code to be sure
between abt 12 and 16 seconds in the video you can see me dashing with absolutely no attacks and splitting bolt is still going off
still pewter
I mean, it could ne a unique property of the legendary boon, but not well communicated
maybe it's unintentional
pastel jolt
LinkedUpgrades =
{
ZeusBonusBounceTrait =
{
OneOf = { "ZeusWeaponTrait", "ZeusRangedTrait", "ZeusRangedTrait"},
},
ZeusChargedBoltTrait =
{
OneOf = { "ZeusBonusBounceTrait" },
}
},
faint rock
Is there a strategy and tips document somewhere?
pastel jolt
that's.......... why is rangedtrait in there twice
still pewter
yeah wtf
faint rock
Also, I noticed that while using a controller and observing the codex, you can't scroll up and down to get to different pages on the monsters tab
still pewter
thorn, I don't think so, but feel free to ask questions here
pastel jolt
i'm going to verify files just to make absolutely sure
still pewter
i dunno about controler stuff so can't help you with that
faint rock
Using a mouse to click, then changing tabs has it working again
np, just don't know where to throw it
still pewter
if you think this is a bug, there is a bug report feature in game
F10
is the default keybind
faint rock
@still pewter Thanks! I'll do that
still pewter
pastel jolt
alright, i verified files and now the dupe rangedtrait is gone
idk what was up there
still pewter
very confus
pastel jolt
but yeah it looks like splitting bolt working on all his boons is intentional
still pewter
I reckon the splitting bolt can do with a report, or a request for clarification
if that is at all possible
pastel jolt
what could use the clarity is that splitting bolt's description is: Your chain-lightning effects create an additional burst.
"chain-lightning" would, by definition, include only his attack and his cast, because there's a difference between "chain-lightning" and "a lightning bolt"
still pewter
yeah, that should be the case
whatever the case, I think a report is in order. for the discrepancy in the tooltip if anything
hmm. if it's working properly, aren't the prerequisits inapropriate though?
zues t2s augment actual chain lightning effects no?
pastel jolt
i dropped in a feedback about that too ;P
still pewter
and you can't get them if you only have dash
ah nice
wait, what is storm lightning
the +x chains?
pastel jolt
yeah
still pewter
prerequisits for that include flourish and not cast??
pastel jolt
wait, i'm a fool and a moron
ZeusBonusBounceTrait = {OneOf = { "ZeusWeaponTrait", "ZeusRangedTrait"},
rangedtrait IS his cast
still pewter
you just mixed them up
pastel jolt
yeah, i keep getting "ranged" and "secondary" mixed up
so yeah it makes sense that storm lightning is only available if you have a chain lightning boon already
i'm a fool in a bird's shoes
still pewter
that's so funny
actually
anyway. still my reasoning is this: split bolt affects dash. dash alone cannot give T2s thus dash cannot lead to T3 despite the fact that it benefits from it
same for special btw
pastel jolt
it's like the opposite of the problem artemis has now lmao
still pewter
I think even though this makes sense, it's not bad it works this way
kinda yeah
but it can be as it is by desing and not by omission
pastel jolt
artemis's problem being that if you get hunter dash it opens up access to critical-boosting boons you have no way of actually using
pastel jolt
"this" being the artemis thing?
still pewter
yes
pastel jolt
i left a feedback about that the moment i realised lmao
still pewter
oh yeah, I know
rich lantern
Yeah... that was definitely a bug that we'll address 😃
still pewter
awesome
pastel jolt
\o/
i figured it was just, like. the effect got changed but it didn't get taken out of the prereqs
plush shell
I've never actually picked it up because it sounds so bad, but does Zeus' special boon only create one lightning bolt regardless of how many foes are hit?
I know his attack boon works that way, which I guess makes some sense for balance reasons even if it doesn't match the tooltip's description.
manic ermine
Most zeus effects dont come with chain
unreal owl
holy crap, hydra defeated with only 2HP left on Last Chance
green hollow
I just got killed by the Hydra AGAIN when HE only had 2 hp. (Stray bloodless pounced on me)
I am so salty
How do you kill this bloody Lizard?!
forest marsh
Sounds like you almost had it, so just do what you did before except for the bloodless part at the end 🙃
forest marsh
RIP Bloodstone (already reported in-game, just wanted to share) https://imgur.com/a/Z4Gkm8z
So apparently you can just throw your casts out of that hole and they land out of bounds
forest marsh
In related news, I'm in Asphodel and have only received a single boon, barring the Chaos boon which I don't really count
frigid rain
Did you have options for boons, or just got unlucky?
forest marsh
Until the end of this room I just cleared, no option for other boons 😆 It's fine, my one boon is Zeus cast and I've put 4 poms into it already
frigid rain
Oh yeah you good
forest marsh
My option for my second boon is 
though, not sure if I even want it 🙃
forest marsh
I haven't been trying for any builds, just going with whatever Dark Thirst is offering up as a weapon and working on leveling keepsakes
This run just turned into a Zeus cast build ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Daaang, I think that might have been my first no-hit murderboat
lost rose
oh, sweet!!
heavy palm
Do the bow, shield and spear actually have dash attacks? The sword has a unique animation/attack while dashing.
lost rose
The bow for sure does
You can tell because it has a significantly shortened charge time for the power shot
woeful stirrup
Which is why I still tend to dash around a lot even now that it does not do more damage.
severe jewel
also the shield lets you attack twice very fast out of a dash
heavy palm
See, I thought the bow did too, but the dash attack for the sword cancels out of the dash, the bow doesn’t. I played around with it for a bit and it feels like it was just going into the normal charge-up rather than a different ‘dash attack.’
plush shell
Spear and shield don't have unique animations for their dash attacks.
As far as I can tell anyway.
Bow doesn't, but you can tell because of the charge time.
woeful stirrup
Is it me or does the "next boon you find will be from X" effect of God keepsakes not work in Asphodel, making them sometimes completely useless? Started with Zeus keepsake, got two Zeus boons in Tartarus, kept it for Asphodel, got an Artemis boon, an Ares boon and an Athena boon, and the game also gave me a choice for an Aphrodite boon at some point, but no Zeus boon.
errant narwhal
well, I don’t think it refreshes between zones if you don’t swap it
So getting a god boon from a god keepsake in asphodel if you already had it in tartarus seems to be completely up to luck
woeful stirrup
Well, that does not make getting legendaries easy. Only saw one in 53 runs 
frigid rain
You have to take certain boons to get legnedaries to even have a chance of appearing
On the wiki there are specific guides for all the boon progression at the bottom of the gods pages
woeful stirrup
Well yeah, but when you start with the Zeus keepsake and only see two Zeus boons in the entirety of your run, it's literally impossible to get the legendary.
Especially when your second boon is not the tier 2 boon.
frigid rain
True
opal lintel
hey question
does armor block Aphro's legendary from working or is it a bloodless bug?
sullen tree
its nearly impossible to force a build
the times I get a full zeus build is when I'm not playing for zeus
opal lintel
o
turbid needle
\
tardy mantle
Any tips for dealing with skullcrushers? I don't mind when one drops straight on me in a messy brawl, but I'm finding fighting multiples of them suuuper not fun. They're frustrating as hell to bait down, and I feel like the impact aoe is not clear at all.
pastel jolt
i got splitting bolt again and this has been so much fun
i'm gonna record my hydra fight this time
obtuse merlin
nice
tulip timber
Is there a legendary that feels more impactful than Splitting Bolt? Or is that top for now?
pastel jolt
splitting bolt is definitely the most.... visible? of the legendaries i've had so far
proud storm
support fire is ridiculous as well
pastel jolt
one of these days, i will learn to hold left trigger at the startof the recording. i keep forgetting it,,
and with the way the victory screen is laid out half the boon values end up getting covered up
proud storm
it's not meh if you crit
still pewter
it depends really
proud storm
also it works with any attack, even cast
reef iris
It doesn't feel anything really, when yor cast is doing 300+
still pewter
it's better with high attack speed, like spear or flurry blade
proud storm
it's 25% of the base attack's damage
pastel jolt
i'm gonna dump the splitting bolt hydra video into #self-promotion
i feel like it accurately represents the silliness of having all these dang bolts flying around,
(it's great and i love it)
tulip timber
Yeah, other legendaries should have a similar "Oh dang" effect.
They're mostly underwhelming.
pastel jolt
with spear + zeus attack + legendary i think i was doing something like 100 damage per hit without cast bonus
tulip timber
Poseidon is pretty hilarious, but I think we need more floors for it to shine. As it is you usually only get it for a few rooms before Hydra.
Well, at least another floor.
I could see Poseidon legendary making normal rooms a cakewalk.
still pewter
I'm having a hard time articulating how I feel about legendaries
novel kiln
isn't AWESOME enough
dreamy jackal
Does dash attack buff effect spear spin attack?
merry drift
Hey, does anybody know if this is intended behavior of the shield? https://youtu.be/JBgk5FKJB4k
pastel jolt
you're attacking towards your cursor? seems normal to me
merry drift
so if I press left mouse to attack with a certain timing nothing happens after the first attack (the cursor even stays completely red which means I'm currently pressing the key)
or mouse in that case
analog crystal
Is it to stop attack spam?
still pewter
yes but it messes button hold commands
like shield block and spear spin
the solution to this would be input buffering
merry drift
yeah exactly i noticed it on shield hold
analog crystal
I had something similar with the bow and dashing after youve shot but i dont think anyone else did lol
still pewter
I found that bow works consistently
didn't really mess with dash attacks though
you can try using the bow and try to hold immidiately after releasing
you should ready the hit every time consistently
shield and spear don't have this
spear actually does have input buffering after the spin
tulip timber
I play controller, so I haven't noticed it. Might be KB/M only.
still pewter
just not after regular attack
I doubt it is
but I know nothing of code so who knows
idk, input buffering might downgrade the game feel at times
but as it stands, sometimes you just hold your shield attack/spear attack and zag just stands there doing nothing
tulip timber
It's a feel thing they can continue to tweak. But it's a hard thing to quantify from an end-user perspective.
It's one of those things where you need to nudge variables under the hood, see how it feels, and repeat.
tulip timber
But I think it's worth bringing up if it feels like an issue in the current open beta build.
still pewter
it's not like it'd be something new
tulip timber
Sidenote: is open beta / early access interchangeable?
still pewter
idk, probably
hybrid kestrel
what is dash attack exactly?
is it the attack right after dodging, or does zag dmg when his dodge lands?
still pewter
attacking directly after dashing
hybrid kestrel
i get an extra attack with the shield right after i dodge
you mean the first one i guess?
still pewter
yeah, that's the one
the bow has a shorter wind up time on dash attacks
the sword has a special mini lunge attack that's not part of the 1-2-3 combo
spear dash attack is a regular ol' hit
hybrid kestrel
cool thx
frigid rain
@tulip timber
Early access can imply you have to pay to receive the content. An open beta, technically, means that anyone can try the beta for free to test for bugs and such within the game.
tulip timber
Ah, fair.
frigid rain
yeah
In some cases they can be used interchangably, say Destiny 2's early access had an open beta for a time for free
Something like Fortnite was an early access open bets before they went full release
But something like Hades is technically just an early access, because you do have to buy the game to get the content
at least, imo
severe sinew
There is not a current tracker on which room you are in.
Though bosses do give of which point you got so far
proud storm
uuuh so far you can roughly estimate where you are depending on which room you enter during a room
e.g miniboss fight in tartarus: you're halfway thru tartarus
1st charon room in asphodel: you're halfway thru asphodel
novel kiln
asbelgodel
meager lotus
Ye
Cause right now I'm not sure if I should take a buff, since I don't know if it'll last until the boss
proud storm
meg or hydra
meager lotus
Meg
proud storm
did you pass charon or the minibosses
meager lotus
I'm playing on hardcore lag mode
I passed the minibosses
Maybe 3 rooms ago?
Maybe more?
severe sinew
It's actually a good way to know what you will be preparing for though.
In my experience, When the options are either a Charon shop or a buff like pom power in Asphodel, I somehow know it's the last room before Hydra
proud storm
might be wise to not take it if you're lagging
meager lotus
My options right now are either pomegranate or charon
proud storm
yeah it's the room before meg
meager lotus
Oh snap
proud storm
charon only appears halfway thru areas or right before bosses
meager lotus
Well I'm going to get buffed to hell
severe sinew
Exactly
pastel jolt
it's always so tough for me to decide between pom or charon if i have a bunch of money bc there's always that little voice that says "but what if charon sells a pom AND a boon"
meager lotus
Y'all were right
novel kiln
The Punful Way
severe sinew
But if you got the coin, whats stopping you for getting BOTH!
meager lotus
Hold my 237% damage nova strike, I'm going in 
novel kiln
boi
meager lotus
(why doesn't Meg get pushed tho 
)
pastel jolt
exactly
it's a war between "well what if he's only got trash for sale, go for the guaranteed pom" or "but what if ULTIMATE POWER"
proud storm
meg is the unmovable object and you're the unstoppable force
novel kiln
unlimited pomer
meager lotus
I'm very much stoppable
proud storm
not for long
severe sinew
"The Risks of a Roguelike"
severe sinew
Yeah I can see it's more in the vein of roguelite instead of rougelike
Yes I perma dies and start from scratch
severe sinew
But what is the point of roguelikes, if you don't get some kind progression in unlocking stuff.
I feel like it would be pretty discouraging to start something and get up to a point, losing, and then start from scratch without achieving anything.
What keeps people to play these games then?
thank you Dan.
I felt it was wrong but I was not sure 😅
tulip timber
The point is if it is fun to get better and get further, and if you can beat it without upgrades. Unlocks can be straight upgrades to ease the "getting good" curve (like in Hades) or can just add variety (like in Binding of Isaac). But I don't think they're mandatory.
Like, Isaac could just have everything unlocked from the start, and it would still be random and difficult and require you to adapt based on what your run gives you.
severe sinew
Then the only thing I can see that would change Hades from a roguelite to a roguelike, is the keepsakes.
Relationship in Hades doesn't effect the runs (other than getting a keepsake).
Mirror offers benefits, but can be removed at any point, aswell as the Pact of Punishment.
still pewter
I'm also of the opinion that upgrades that add variety are preferable over the upgrades that add power
also why do we bother nitpicking over roguelite vs roguelike. if we can communicate what we mean effectively there is no point. technical correctectness holds little value
severe sinew
I agree!
Thats why the boons are good, in terms of different playstyles, different benefits from the boons.
Ohh I don't mind what terminology they have, but it could be a good way to offer a description of a genre, tho its still vague, considered alot (myself included) misunderstand
frigid rain
EtG is a great example of this
Yeah, you can have a great run with just the basic unlocks, but unlocking new guns, items, and then finding those often boosts your run capability and adaptability because of the new variety
still pewter
this conversation has been discussed many times here and I agree with you tea
have you by chance watched any episodes of gmt?
severe sinew
Well it's not like its possible to keep track of ALL conversations in this server.
Or if there is, please do enlighten me!
I have watched a few, they are quite good, so I subscribed
frigid rain
GMT?
still pewter
oh certainly, it's hard to keep track of everything
severe sinew
Game maker's toolkit
still pewter
game maker's toolkit is a youtube series on video game design. there are a couple of episodes that make really good points imo regarding this debate
tulip timber
That's part of the problem with a discord community hub. 😃 The same ground gets tread more than in forums. Or at least that's the impression I get.
frigid rain
I have not, but I absolutely will start soon
Especially considering I'm in a game design major
still pewter
one discusses meta progression systems in roguelikes and another discusses accessibility. I find those two really relevant to this conversation
pastel jolt
the progression one has been linked about five or six times in this server at this point
i think i have the thumbnail for it burned into my head
still pewter
yeah, I know
frigid rain
Forums if someone repeats a question, they're likely to get a link from a mod to the original discussion and their thread might be taken down, depending on how strict it is :P
tulip timber
Whereas here we just get "Aw geeze this again?" 😃
frigid rain
lmao
proud storm
the "hit or miss" build https://i.imgur.com/yCpGSda.png
still pewter
I mean, the information is directed to the lads that aren't aware of it yet
tulip timber
Ah, the "Will it explode" run.
still pewter
no hammer upgrade hmm
proud storm
i saw a few hammers but it was that or a pom
i wanted to upgrade clean kill for funsies
frigid rain
DM me the link to those vids please, Icathios
tulip timber
Your clears look like mine but swap spear for bow.
proud storm
hahaha this game is so easy (never gets out of their comfort zone)
frigid rain
Love the bow and spear
I think it's the range?
And in most SG games I've found ranged has almost always been an easier/better option
still pewter
yeah, I think it's quite rought to design with both range and melee in mind
tulip timber
I appreciated Bastion's 2 weapon loadout. It allowed for more variety in builds. You could be ranged focused, but it was always helpful to have a melee.
I would love if Skelly's platform also had challenge rooms for the weapons like the Bastion challenges.
frigid rain
That might be a future thing!
Think about it
Bastion has weapon challenges
Transistor has function challenges
Pyre has character challenges (The tome)
I wouldnt at all be surprised if we got weapon challenges sometime within the year
tulip timber
Yeah. Or god-based boon challenges. Or something. I'm interested in getting more unlocks and variety.
frigid rain
There are many rooms left!
I feel Achilles, if anyone, would run weapon challenges
tulip timber
All the chargers Hades has that he no longer knows what they go with but he's too afraid to throw them out.
frigid rain
Hades' bedroom
Instead of decorations, Zag buys pranks in a run
tulip timber
OH! Or Hades is planning a surprise party for Zag, and he's just pretending to be a jerk while they set up the decorations.
tulip timber
I wonder if there will be something more interesting with the NPCs in the starting area not being there other than "Oh, yeah, they got stuff going on."
It just seems like an odd thing to have in place with no real purpose at this point, other than maybe to give the NPCs a little more personality.
Like if they're not in the base they might show up on the run, kind of thing.
elfin spindle
timber geode
that would be cool, like a few quests or challenges that raise the relationship rank or give you small bonuses or items
tidal roost
I really appreciate the way the Trial of Punishment that takes away your boon choices makes you have to heavily adapt your playstyle to account maximizing the function of all the boons you are forced to use. Makes the pace of the game much more reactive instead of forward thinking. My last few games in playing with those choices limited has helped me practice accounting for use of my environment, thinking about how to survive long term in rooms with particular enemy comps due to sub-optimal damage output, and a bunch of other things.
arctic venture
same! I've had my heat limiting my options down to 1 ever since the option became available
runic scarab
Just found out about the game I'm wondering how long a play through takes
errant narwhal
One run takes me like half an hour, personally
But unless ur wicked good at games, you won’t clear it all on the first try
and even then. It’s still fun after clearing and there’s still a bunch of content to see
runic scarab
Does it save during a run or is it all or nothing?
Like can I play for 15 min and come back?
pastel jolt
yeah, you can save during a run
you have to make sure the menu says "quit" and not "give up" tho
runic scarab
And dying kills your save?
pastel jolt
nope, game is designed for you to die a lot
runic scarab
And it's mostly skill based progression not unlocks?
frigid rain
Unlock and skill
You'll get better at playing, but there's a really good upgrade system in place that can greatly affect runs
runic scarab
Awesome. Is it more like transistor or bastion in terms of game play?
pastel jolt
somewhere between the two, i think?
frigid rain
Yeah, definitely in between
willow kindle
oh. my. god
i can't wait till they nerf the mob spawning combos
I had a PERFECT double epic ares shield special build and ran all the way across almost the last door in Aspho.
untill there is a armored skullomat with armored witches and blue crysstals
rustic sparrow
How in the world am I supposed to do heat 120..?? 60 was hard enough 
willow kindle
-2 lifes. eas
tulip timber
The only thing that skullomat / crystal / witch room was missing was crushers.
proud storm
i didnt realize i picked the same chaos boon twice in a run https://i.imgur.com/Zh8titv.png
tulip timber
Chaos Ding.
somber epoch
D I N G
night pasture
I recognize this is subjective but are aphrodite boons a bit of a bummer or is it just me
forest marsh
I don't think they ever really recovered from their nerf a while back, yeah
lost rose
her boons used to be really OP and she got kind of...over-nerfed
hard holly
Way overnerfed
Its ironic, because for good players
Her added utility is the least beneficial
So youd expect her damage to be at least in line with the other 2
night pasture
I mean vis-a-vis the "weak" effect you're doing all you can to avoid damage so if you're doing well it's essentially no effect
hard holly
Thats another factor, yes
Its mostly good for new players
Which is valid
She just needs better numbers
pastel jolt
do you think it would help if sweet surrender was a built-in part of the weak effect or would that be too strong
worn fulcrum
I mean, if you're never taking damage then you don't need any boons, really
hard holly
Too strong 100%
You dont want multiplicative damage that easily
I think if her numbers were just the same as Poseidon and Athena
Shed be fine
Not as interesting for the best players
But those go for a narrow selection anyway
worn fulcrum
I dunno, I feel like weak differentiates itself enough as the most straightforward defensive boon option
Athena requires more work for deflects, and posiedan is only kind of defensive, while the other three just increase damage in different ways
orchid sonnet
What can they do to Aphrodite so she's good for higher level players that don't get hit as much?
forest marsh
Bring her damage numbers back up a bit. They used to be the strongest, and now they're the weakest (as far as I can recall, anyway)
tired pivot
That's why health in the mirror is bad because it doesn't help good players. Same with avenging gain. :p
orchid sonnet
Didn't avenging gain get removed?
orchid sonnet
Yeah. Pretty sure hp up replaced it.
tired pivot
On a serious note, that's a shame because it was a good design even though the explanation wasn't clear.
I agree that Thick Skin isn't very good design.
Or it's more boring?
woeful stirrup
Avenging gain was nice. Thick Skin makes centaur hearts useless at low heat.
tired pivot
Wouldn't Avenging Gain also be more useful at higher heat since enemies are hitting harder?
worn fulcrum
Avenging Gain was crazy strong
orchid sonnet
It didn't sit right with me initially but I think it's fine. Unlike upgrades from in game that's refundable.
forest marsh
Yeah, when my typical run maxes out at 75-100 hp normally, being able to start with 100 just makes Centaur Hearts a bit of a waste
orchid sonnet
Centaur Hearts are the worst, especially early on.
tired pivot
The problem with Avenging Gain, at least for me, is that it was really hard to tell whether I was getting use out of it unless I was eyeballing the hp bar, which I usually wasn't since I was focused on killing enemies.
worn fulcrum
When you think of Avenging Gain as 'if you play slightly aggressively, you take 40% of normal damage', it feels much stronger imo
worn fulcrum
I agree with that, albiet with the numbers as they were it put considerably more power into the mirror than I feel should be there
tired pivot
Even then, it's still reactive damage mitigation so you'll still die to the damage and also if you can't actually strike back it doesn't do anything. I think 40% i still fine.
Or maybe with lower numbers.
worn fulcrum
I dislike Thick Skin and the Death Defy perks for that reason too - they just help you, they don't really change the way you play very much
tired pivot
Yeah, they're both crutch perks.
worn fulcrum
(And Cthonic Vitality, I guess)
tired pivot
Perks which help skillful play are good.
(I'm bad though so I like Cthonic Vitality)
forest marsh
I feel like as it is right now, there aren't many game mechanics that strictly reward skill
I kind of wish they had a parry/deflect mechanic like in Bastion rather than only as part of boons
tired pivot
Mainly only the perks that reward skill.
Or rather, reward playing in a way that isn't quite direct hack and slash.
Did they take out dash damage?
worn fulcrum
Yes
forest marsh
They did make dash do a brief stun effect, though
worn fulcrum
Replaced with 'bonus damage with attack and special to foes with casts stuck in them'
tired pivot
Shame. Dash damage actually was one of the more skillful perks.
worn fulcrum
It was incredible with the bow
tired pivot
Bonus damage to enemies with cast in them isn't bad, but it's definitely not as good. Plus it acts poorly with some boons.
forest marsh
Oh, I completely misunderstood when you asked about dash damage 🙃 You were talking about Quick Temper, right?
worn fulcrum
cast bonus damage is multiplicative, though, and works with stuff that isn't just attacking
orchid sonnet
Yeah. Ares cast sucks if you want to use that skill as a benefit.
tired pivot
I think bonus special/attack damage on enemies with cast should be baseline to compensate for casts getting stuck in enemies and Quick Temper should be returned.
Especially in the early game when cast->run until casts drop is the main tactic against mini-bosses I felt.
worn fulcrum
quick temper was ridiculously strong with the bow to the point that it monopolized everything, I think
tired pivot
Huh
worn fulcrum
Even now, bow + hunter dash feels much easier than everything else to me
but that might just be my bow bias
tired pivot
How easy is bow to use otherwise?
woeful stirrup
Bow is still easy to use.
worn fulcrum
(Hunter Dash is basically quick temper as a boon)
The thing with the bow is that there's not really a reason to ever have an attack not be a dash attack
woeful stirrup
But with quick temper, it was ridiculous, since you can dash away from an enemy and hit it. With other weapons, you at least needed to plan out your dash to be able to hit.
tired pivot
True.
worn fulcrum
So Hunter Dash / Quick Temper boosted every attack, not just the weaker sword dash attack, single spear hits, or weak shield hits
tired pivot
Ugh, I hate when one perk is nerfed/removed because one other ability out of all them interacts badly with it.
They should bring back Quick Temper and nerf bow. Ezpz
worn fulcrum
But then bow is terrible if you don't have a bunch of darkness for Quick Temper
worn fulcrum
Incidentally, I feel the same way about Hunter Dash - either it's not good without bow or bow is too strong with it
tired pivot
I think bow is going to be problematic.
Regardless because it's ranged compared to melee
Still, we'll have to see the other two weapons to say for sure.
worn fulcrum
Indeed
tired pivot
Not sure what other weapons they could add. Twin knives with a short range but high arc attack?
forest marsh
I will continue to hope for whip and cestus until we find out for sure
lost rose
(quick reminder that there are players who aren't great at the game and may never be, and the game should be accessible to and playable by them too - there are plenty of mechanics in place to allow players to modulate the difficulty to their own preference, so do what's fun for you! hard does not inherently equal better designed. and it's early days yet!)
worn fulcrum
i totally feel that - I've played plenty a roguelike where I've never gotten past the fifth floor or whatnot - but I feel like having certain really strong mirror / weapon combos is not a good experience for players who aren't quite as strong at the game, either - the larger the difference is between 'the best build ever' and 'random boons that look good', the harder the game is for them, I think
but I could be wrong about that!
lost rose
I'm more addressing the "this isn't useful to skilled players so it shouldn't be in here" vibes i get from some of these conversations
a lot of folks on here have played like 60, 70, 100+ runs since the game came out, and/or have experience in other roguelikes/lites and real-time combat games, so i think it can be easy to criticize some designs as "crutches" when they might actually be really helpful to new players, or useful in the early game
As to what you're saying though - I don't quite understand, could you elaborate a bit?
As in, with so many choices it can be hard to figure out what's actually good versus what just looks helpful but isn't?
autumn tapir
tbh I think the difficulty is fine as-is
the pact could do with being less tedious but really all the idols/limiters/titan stars have been tedious in past games
forest marsh
I think the intent of their comment was that having an "OP" build meta (old bow crit-dash, I'm looking at you) can be a detriment if it means that's the only way a player can be successful if they aren't sufficiently skilled otherwise with just random boons/abilities? Does that make sense? Just trying to interpret here, not necessarily my opinion
hard holly
Again, if Aphrodites boons did as much damage as Athena and Poseidon, shed be fine
Having mechanics that help new/inexperienced players more than they help hardcore players are good
lost rose
Ah, yeah, I see. I think there are multiple viable builds right now though, even if they aren't "the best build ever", especially when you take mirror meta-progression into account
tired pivot
Yeah, I wasn't serious when I meant that the perks shouldn't be there because they're not useful to good players. I just think that Thick Skin has a boring design.
woeful stirrup
Issue is, for a new player, more health is not that useful because it goes down fast and there aren't many heals. And for an experimented player, it makes another one of the room rewards useless.
frigid rain
How high does thick skin go?
woeful stirrup
Once you've unlocked everything, darkness, ambrosia, keys, heat and centaur hearts become useless now, instead of just darkness, ambrosia and keys before the Pact of punishment.
Goes up to 50HP.
frigid rain
:|
woeful stirrup
@heavy solstice Making it a percentage would also make centaur hearts an actual choice to consider.
analog jewel
I haven't played in ages and it took me 4 or 5 runs to notice that dash-attack wasn't adding any extra damage
boy is that ever gonna be a tough habit to break
heavy solstice
forest marsh
You can still do that strategy if you take the new Hunter Dash, @analog jewel
Just be forewarned that it's currently bugged and so that no matter the rarity you pick up, it will revert to 100% damage buff upon exiting the room. Regular Pom upgrades still work on it after, though
arctic venture
hey, do ares' curses stack if you attack multiple times in .6 seconds?
lost rose
nope
arctic venture
as in, during the delay?
ok that's what I thought, thank you
it might be handy for ares' wiki page to have that!
I'll look into suggesting it
rapid flicker
Does Zag feel too slow for anyone else? I haven’t played in a little while but after playing today I felt his dash seems to activate a bit slowly. His move speed also seems a tad slower. I couldn’t find any such changes in the patch notes so maybe I’m imagining things but I did find that attacks I thought I was gonna avoid ended up hitting me because of the delay from button press to activation.
lost rose
I haven't noticed a slowdown personally
rapid flicker
I could just be imagining it but that’s what it feels like 🤷♀️
woeful stirrup
I didn't notice slowdown of Zag himself, however, I did notice a lot of input lag since the last patch. Might explain why your dash seems to activate slowly.
rapid flicker
Hmm that could be it. Hopefully it can be fixed soon if that’s the case.
tulip timber
The feel is different since the last patch, but I think it's just getting used to some subtle changes that don't really merit patch notes.
cerulean tusk
How rarity works, exactly? What are the default chances a non-boss / boss boons will have rare and epic effects? Are all 3 boon choice rarities decided independantly? Is mirror's only rare chance buff different from keepsakes' and chaos' chance "to be rare or better"? Does bonus rare / rare or better chance add to natural rare chance directly, or does it make a separate bonus roll for rare / rare or better if you got a natural common?
grand patrol
they really want you to visit uwu
frosty pier
God, these crushers need to chill
somber epoch
Do you feel under pressure?
frosty pier
I know it's a lava town there, I feel completly flattened by then it's like those memes with 5-to-1
Can I buy some Ice so no more than 5 of them can spawn?
tired pivot
Bloof gate room 0 is pretty good.
somber epoch
Bloof!
meager lotus
I really feel like I should get the triple dash to properly dodge those crush bois
That third death defiance though... choices choices 
meager lotus
The thing you need to understand is - I already jump head first into traps with double dash
I don't feel like I deserve it
novel kiln
that's because you're a HASTY FOOL
meager lotus
Can't argue with that
novel kiln
nah dude
the dash is the thing you use the most in game other than attacking
it's much more valuable than DD
I'd rather get things that prevent me from dying than things that bring me back from death
meager lotus
I'll test that theory on my next run then 😁
novel kiln
You gotta git gud though and learn how to dodge traps
or rather, not run into them
it's not like they move
meager lotus
Ye ye, I'll see to it lol
frosty pier
IF YOU HAVE A THIRD DASH WHAT ARE CHANCES THAT YOU WILL DASH PAST A TRAP ON 3RD ONE?
meager lotus
Believe you me
There are times where having one less dash prevented me from dashing onto a trap 👀
How did I ever reach the 2nd boss lol
frosty pier
The thing with dashes... There is 2 different ascended levels of existence, sometimes you can just stroll by attacks with -50% movement. Second is then you leaving the floor buried under the dashmarks
meager lotus
I gotta admit, I love getting Athena's dash blessing and just dashing my way to invincibility
frosty pier
Then I get cornered into picking it, it doesnt end well
Timings in your bones just collectively go out the window, and it deletes spin-dash
meager lotus
cue me dashing into the same corner for 5 seconds straight
zenith ice
or that chained room edge in Meg's chamber
night pasture
I would consider myself reasonably good at the game but most of my health loss in asphodel by far is consistently dashing too far and ending up in lava
oh lava
why can't I stop dashing into you
worldly sage
you must really lava the damage
dreamy jackal
@analog crystal I can see your point. However, your suggestion just don’t work in this game. Each run is different and quite a commitment. When you died, it’s all reset and you start from the beginning. Having an interval area is important in giving us this feeling. (For me, at least.)
pastel jolt
also i would literally die for anyone in the house of hades (except hades)
finite nova
Actually
Hades is not that bad imho
Like, he is thrown to the underworld for ETERNITY
But this is actually should be discussed in discussion
(He tried to run away and didnt manage, his family hates him, his wife left him and he be like "I cant trust nobody up there" and I really understand why he cant)
dreamy jackal
Yeah, I don’t think Hades is a bad father. We haven’t gotten all the information, yet. However, I feel like he has a reason for doing what he does.
forest marsh
It's not a bug, presuming that they happened to be on the lava when the level cleared
cold cave
looks like the game crashed after i tabbed out
if its still there when i restart ill report it
and no, i was far from the lava when the level cleared
forest marsh
Oh, well, then definitely F10 that 😆
hollow totem
Is there a bug with pomegranites?
and hunter dash?
it just turned my epic hunter dash
into a normal hunter dash
pastel jolt
known issue
pastel jolt
hunter dash currently resets itself to a normal, 100% effect boon when you leave the room
it's come up a few times across various channels
forest marsh
It's also listed in the #hades-tech-fixes-old Known Issues list now
drifting hemlock
@hollow totem its not the pom making it into a normal, its when you leave the room from which you got the hunter dash then it resets to normal, from then on you can upgrade it with poms
flint sleet
this the best room to ask for tips in?
south comet
yep!
south comet
im not the best one to ask haha im not great at the game
patience and dashing are key id say
flint sleet
even then, once the AOE starts happening, along with all the monster spawns, you just can't avoid the damage
doing 100ish damage a hit, I just can't get her down quick enough
lost rose
You can dodge the AOE, just have to get far enough away that her shots spread out
forest marsh
Learn her patterns, be patient, ignore the adds. Make sure you have at least 2 dashes, 3 is better. Side-step her dash attack and immediately go in for some backstabs. Bullet hell advice is to either back off until it's easy to walk out of the way or just plain be out of range, or else attack against the projectiles to destroy them and damage Meg at the same time
flint sleet
I'm doing all those things, but can't bring her health down once the AOE starts :S
forest marsh
For the AoE, pay attention to the circles. You don't always have to dodge if you get the pattern where the area centered on you is clear
flint sleet
closest I got I had something like 100hp, lvl 2-3 ares attack damage, and some other stuff, was doing bulk damage :S
guess I just need to git gud :S
forest marsh
If you just dash close around Meg, you can get attacks in on her in between AoE casts too
Don't try to tank damage. I'll reiterate learning the patterns
flint sleet
I don't try and tank lol
forest marsh
Take some time and just watch her attack animations and how long they take. Get a feel for how many hits you can safely do
Make sure you're using Boiling Blood to full effect if you have it available
flint sleet
currently at 40% >:
forest marsh
It's probably just a matter of patience and practice, then
flint sleet
probably v.v
forest marsh
Until you learn her patterns and when you can do damage safely and optimally, just take your time and play it safe
flint sleet
this is why I'm terrible at rouguelikes
forest marsh
The best time to do damage to her is right after she dashes, and after her AoE whip attack
Try for backstabs whenever possible
For the dash avoidance, don't dash away, just wait for her windup then sidestep, that's all it takes
Try to position yourself to be near where she'll end her dash so you don't waste time getting back to her to get hits in
How many runs in are you, out of curiosity?
flint sleet
not keeping count, but have been playing for a good 5-6hrs now prob
forest marsh
I'm guessing you don't have the Scrying Pool purchased from the Well of Charon yet, then?
forest marsh
Ah, ok. It tells you how many runs you've done, if you get a chance to buy it during a run
flint sleet
I think the 300 gold poster? is hte only one I've seen
forest marsh
I think Scrying Pool is only like 100 or something? It's been a long time, I'd probably have to look it up
Pretty cheap, anyway
Still, 5 or 6 hours is pretty early. It took me 30-some-odd runs before I got past Meg, so just keep at it (and others have reported taking longer, so don't sweat it)
Meg is the first real wall of difficulty
forest marsh
Looked it up, Scrying Pool is only 50 
, so definitely pick it up when you get a chance
errant narwhal
Her HP used to be even higher haha
flint sleet
oh lawdy
errant narwhal
she goes down so quick to me now, that I always optimize my runs for tons of damage
flint sleet
oh, according to my main screen, I've made 26 escape attempts
forest marsh
It only went down like what, 600 from 5000 to 4400 or something ,right?
errant narwhal
Also, hi dis :P good to see you again
flint sleet
I'm also tryyyying to do that. A lot of my runs get tons of keys and stuff tho, and not many boons.
errant narwhal
idk the numbers honestly
I’m like 70 runs in, it took me a bit to figure out this game lol
And I still can’t clear consistently
forest marsh
Triple Shot Bow is still my fastest Meg clear strat
flint sleet
spear is the only thing I've come close with, wit hthe after damage from ares
forest marsh
Yeah, I'm honestly the same alma I don't play as much as I'd like, I think I'm only 80-some-odd runs in
errant narwhal
I also don’t wanna play much so I don’t burn out but also I’m like
I play one run and go WHEW, that was exhausting, time to close the game for a week
flint sleet
I literally bought the game 6hrs ago >.>
errant narwhal
it does take me 40 minutes or so to do each run but yeah. I would not make a good streamer
don’t worry about not being able to get past meg then
You’ll get there, you literally just bought the game :P
flint sleet
😛
forest marsh
It takes me 40 minutes or more a run too, but that's because I constantly jump over into Discord to talk to you folks 🙃
In-game time a completed run usually runs me like... 20 minutes give or take a few
errant narwhal
ok I do that to but it also takes me a while because I’m not very good at the game
harsh ridge
You can do it! I went from pulling on my hair out of frustration from getting killed by Meg again and again to kind of just pushing her out of my way.
drifting hemlock
Okay for someone whos been against making the game easier from the get go - I really wish you couldnt get a small/medium sized no hit rooms with 4 skull nests ...
fervent forge
I reckon the no hit rooms should be if you win the rewards are similar to that of a boss room win, and if you lose it’s just a standard version of the boon/darkness whatever
drifting hemlock
A boss room? You want Darkness or heat?
woeful stirrup
I feel like those rooms are fine as they are, but in my opinion they should only pop up in darkness/heat/obol rooms. You get an increased reward if you succeed, and you don't lose an interesting thing if you fail. Losing a hammer is always such a sad moment.
faint rock
I finally beat the hydra!
After like 60 runs
wow I must be one of the worst players here
When's the next milestone on content after the hydra?
lost rose
It took me over 60 runs to beat the hydra the first time! I think that's a pretty standard number
We're not sure how much more there is!
Or when a substantial expansion to levels will be coming
But there is a major update due in a few weeks
woeful stirrup
I'd say out of all the people posting on the Discord and subreddit, you're in the lower half. One of the worst, though, definitely not, as there's plenty of people who took 100 tries before winning. Also gotta remember there's three kinds of people here: SGG fans, rogue-lite enthusiasts and SGG fans who are also rogue-lite enthusiasts. The last two kinds are usually pretty much experts at those kinds of games, so being worse than them is not really a big deal.
hard holly
Depends on pre or post-patch, really
Pre-patch 60 was pretty average, post-patch I think its closer to 40 now?
Also depends on your control scheme, I imagine
I think controller is easier
night pasture
how much damage did you take due to lava?
I've decided that's the only statistic I'm interested in
runic lagoon
Hi guys small question about the Daedalus hammer in regards to the spear
Untouchable thrust doesn't increase the size of the spin at all right?
pastel jolt
as far as i know, it does not
runic lagoon
Thanks for the info 😄 I didn't think it did but I just wanted to ask people who would know better than me
Also is this the right chat to ask questions like that if I have any more?
pastel jolt
sure
night pasture
Absolutely
frosty pier
Ow my god, i finally encountered "Zag stuck in a spear attack pose" bug. He looks so fabulous... and uncomfortable at the same time
night pasture
well, time to go get killed again
hah, I don't think I've seen the "maimed eclipse" boon from chaos before
I'm sure I'd kill myself instantly
runic lagoon
Okay I've got another question
If I raise the difficulty using heat can I lower it back down later?
runic lagoon
?
frosty pier
Perma-heat saves
runic lagoon
I mean it stays unless you disable it right?
frosty pier
Yes you can disable it anytime
night pasture
No during a run, but by using the pact again
runic lagoon
Thanks Ma'Sair and Mej
night pasture
It's what we're here for
that and asking how much damage you take from lava
I SLUNG ALL MY CASTS INTO THE GOD DAMN LAVA
runic lagoon
Don't get me wrong the lava is annoying but as someone who in my earlier runs primarily used shield I have a problem with some of the levels where my shield would take forever to come back because it wanted to be free
night pasture
I think many people have that reaction to the shield
"the special autoaims and bounces between a lot of things to clear rooms? I'll crank it!"
But then it turns out that when there are no walls you spend most of your time wondering where your shield is vacationing
runic lagoon
I think my cast may have also gotten stuck in a wall at some point
exactly XD
When fighting the hydra I always end up barely missing my casts and then having them be in the lava behind the boss
plush blaze
slow'nt
Of course
Still a good minute or so off 3rd place 😦
I'll post the link here once it's uploaded
meager lotus
Cool, thanks
tulip timber
Got Poseidon leg while still in tartarus. It is hilarious and wonderful.
plush blaze
@meager lotus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkqBl-lLHeM
360p atm so you might want to wait a minute
night pasture
does Chaos have a legendary boon?
plush blaze
Haven't seen any
pastel jolt
they don't
tulip timber
Off the top of the screen is Support fire & Bonus damage on wall slam. I pretty much made equal use of every ability (dash / attack / special / cast) this run.
Also, two legendaries in run for first time.
Getting poseidon legendary early is NUTS. Makes rest of the game fairly trivial.
The most busted run I've had since patch.
night pasture
I honestly thought poiseidon's was one of the weaker legendaries
what about it makes it so easy?
tulip timber
It makes most regular rooms completely trivial. It's also not bad on bloodless spawn on hydra.
I got it early enough that I had it for Meg fight.
It made chests SUPER easy for the rest of the game.
tulip timber
Splitting bolt is still better. But double-YEET was pretty sick.
tulip timber
I had athena on special + 50% crit on special hammer boost | artemis cast + 2 bonus casts | Poseidon attack + stun on slam + damage on slam + double knockback | Zeus on dash for bonus damages | And on everything Artemis support fire shooting extra bullets.
It's one of the first runs I've had where essentially everything was upgraded to something pretty good.
languid sapphire
I’ve always felt like Artemis’ legendary was a little soft with the non-scaling 15 damage, is there a reason it’s good?
night pasture
I spawned a blood gate with the charon's well item, but none of the boons I could complete before the hydra chamber
protip: don't do that
runic lagoon
Yeah I've done that and it completely hosed me
Are there a set amount of rooms for each biome
pastel jolt
it's a little flexible but the hydra's room is usually the 27th you'll reach
i think blood gates can mess with the number a bit
night pasture
ah, yes, there are certain chambers that "don't count"
plush blaze
Pretty much every chamber counts
Can't remember if blood gates count as 1 or 2
Hydra is always the 27th
night pasture
I think it's if enemies are present, they don't count, but I may just be thinking of the "encounter" criteria
pastel jolt
they're an extra, as far as i know - you used to be able to get the overlook to say, like, "28 chambers out of 27" back when it still said "out of"
i'm sure i've seen a screenshot of that, anyways
plush blaze
Non-encounter rooms count, Mej
pastel jolt
chamber = any room
encounter = room with enemies in it
runic lagoon
Yes Finally second win
I shaved like 13 minutes off from my last win too
Still nowhere near that 8 minute run but for my second win I don't think 21:37.33 is that bad
And yet I forgot to take a picture -_-
plush blaze
grats!
meager lotus
@plush blaze watched it! It was very instructive
plush blaze
Glad you enjoyed it 🙂
Ideally about 3 minutes into the run I should have taken deliberate damage to activate death defiance
Since I couldn't use the blood g ate in the room
runic lagoon
@plush blaze what was the timer in the vid?
runic lagoon
Sorry I should have clarified what was the thing in the bottom right, that said Meg and then a time as well as some other things
runic lagoon
Can I assume it's safe to download since you use it?
plush blaze
Like 90% of speedrunners use it
runic lagoon
That's a yes then XD
plush blaze
😄
runic lagoon
and you just manually entered the times for those right?
plush blaze
Entered them where?
runic lagoon
When I looked it up it said it was customizable
plush blaze
Yeah you choose what segments you want
runic lagoon
so like you made it to be like that with those specific times listed right
plush blaze
For example mine are Meg, Asphodel, Boat / Skipped, Hydra, End
The times are recorded from previous runs
The times you see at the right are comparing to my previous best time
The -19.1 means I completed the meg segment 19.1 seconds faster than my previous best
The gold colour means it's the fastest I've ever done that segment
runic lagoon
Did it record the times you reached/beat those for you though
plush blaze
Yes, if you reset the timer, a popup will come up with something along the lines of 'you've beaten some of your best times, do you want to save them?'
Assuming you've beaten some of your best times
runic lagoon
Cool
night pasture
I'm curious, how does it know when you've completed something, or is it a manual trigger you hit?
runic lagoon
That's what I was trying to figure out XD
@night pasture So is the Artemis legendary bad?
because it's one of my options rn and idk if it's worth it or not
night pasture
I would say it's one of the best, but as I hope we've established, I'm far from the most expereienced player here
runic lagoon
I thought someone was saying that Support fire was bad because it's a flat 15 damage?
night pasture
oh, it may have changed since I last got it
I haven't been using artemis boons much since they knocked her down a few patches back
just hunter dash
runic lagoon
Support Fire "Your Attack, Cast, and Special spawn an additional seeking shot" "Projectile damage 15"
tulip timber
Huh. Well, 15 homing damage every time you make an attack is a lot of free damage without needing to change how you play at all.
An attack / cast / special.
runic lagoon
Currently I'm using the Bow with triple shot and I have 25% attack crit so I'm wondering if it'd be better to get the extra 10% on everything
tulip timber
Dunno on bow. I think on a good bow run you can ignore everything but attack. And just special for hydra needles.
If I'm playing well bow attack and dash are all I need. If I'm sloppy I'd consider the crit on everything for a more diverse run.
plush blaze
@runic lagoon I just hit the split hotkey manually
I start when the first room loads, meg split is when I enter meg's room, asphodel is when I leave the midway point room, etc
runic lagoon
Do you play with keyboard and mouse or controller
plush blaze
kbm
tulip timber
Though could bind split to a trigger.
If you're controller.
Does clear timer keep running in cleared rooms or fight-free rooms?
pastel jolt
yes, the only time the ingame timer doesn't run is during screens where you're choosing between boons
tulip timber
Aww. Kay. Does that work on all three choice pop ups?
pastel jolt
yeah
tulip timber
That's nice at least. I don't like feeling rushed to decide.
plush blaze
And the loading time between rooms
And when you're on the main menu
And when you're in dialogue
night pasture
"if you can't move zag, it's not a lag"
I died in lava behind the hydra head again, after promising myself I wouldn't do that
plucky snow
Hey Guys im new to this channel so i wanted to start off by saying hi and that i had a couple of inquires about the game
errant narwhal
hello!
finite nova
@plush blaze Kappa, teaching people about gotta go fast?))
plush blaze
slow'nt
finite nova
damn boi
Tell me, Ship, is it ok that first award changes according to the landing???
This is supposed to be like this?
Cause I tried same seed through give up and got hammer, +25 and ares boon several times
plush blaze
RNG is different depending on if you do a normal landing or a perfect landing
wispy moon
What are landings?
frosty pier
Wow so you telling me that animation of Zag landing out the window changes future of your run?
Can we make SSG place some shadows as judges with some
I dunno
pastel jolt
see, you agree with me!
frosty pier
Grade-marks?
pastel jolt
zag pulls off a perfect landing and a row of shades hold up little cards with numbers on em
10 10 10 8
aw c'mon buddy
proud storm
hardcore mode where you immediately die if you fail your perfect landing
pastel jolt
zag just lands on his face and breaks his neck, lara croft style
frosty pier
Hades. Meg and Hydra's heads as judges
proud storm
hypnos looks at his list and is at a loss for words
drifting hemlock
Hey booooys are we having fun?!
plush blaze
I hope so
dapper heart
goes into a chaos gate in first room, running 60 heat.
Only option: every time you attack, -4, but you get +28 health.
Nope.avi
hard holly
Embrace the cast
dapper heart
TOO SLOW
finite nova
JUST RIGHT CLICK
plucky snow
The casting doesn’t flow well with the combat unfortunately.
So casting doesn’t get used very much
drifting hemlock
unless you're doing a cast build
plush blaze
I think it flows perfectly well
Since you can instantly dash out of the cast animation
plucky snow
Cast builds would be better if there were better gen boons for it
plush blaze
In contrast I think one of the reasons specials feel so clunky (bow and sword mostly) is the lack of dash cancelling
forest marsh
I think the cast boons are pretty powerful
plush blaze
Pure cast builds are pretty difficult, but you can get very strong casts with just a couple of boons
And they work even better now with the new mirror upgrade, +50% while they have a bloodstone in them
plucky snow
Lack of special canceling is a hinderance agreed
tawdry mulch
Maybe I'm crazy, but is the fast charge on the shield not working correctly? Sometimes the charge initiates on the release of the button and when I have the fast charge upgrade I press the attack button and then half the time will immediately go into a short charge which often lands me in danger or I end up taking damage. It's frustrating because I like the upgrade, but the current implementation always ends up hurting more than helping.
drifting hemlock
Hold to charge, release to go, thats how it should work
bleak oracle
Spear is the best weapon. Change my mind. 😛
tired pivot
It would be nice if Skull-Crushers dropped after a specific amount of time.
forest marsh
They should really just jump like the skeletons, and not hang in the air /opinion
drifting hemlock
They do drop after some time on their own, but when theres multiple of them paired with a ton of other units its tough
bright kite
Guys do you think the Bloodless have their attacks telegraphed properly? Bc in the heat of the battle its hard for me to tell where he's going to attack, maybe its just me being bad :D
frigid rain
I struggle with it. It also feels like they can predict dashes way better than most enemies, especially in the case of murderboat.
whole sonnet
They just have a very fast wind up. If you dash within attack range of one and don't dash away instantly it's pretty much 100% guaranteed to hit you.
copper berry
Yeah you have to essentially bait the bloodless to dash at you.
So you would have to do something like dash into range, pause for just a moment, then dash right after in another direction.
frigid rain
Yeah
It just sucks on the boat because usually I can flee p easily away
But the boat is so smol
copper berry
Yeah that's the room where I specifically had to learn to bait them, because they punish so hard there T.T
lilac bison
I am struggling so much with the Hydra ;-;
woeful stirrup
See, Hypnos always has the best advice.
placid plinth
Finally, after 75 attempts killed Hydra!
Bow, Triple Shot, Artemis dash +100, and attack crit 35%
75 is probably a bit too much, but I suck at action games 😄
lost rose
👏 congratulations!!
deft onyx
I beat Meg for the first time last night... xD taken me so long. I can consistently get up to her room no problem but her fight just completely wipes me every time.. beat her by the skin of my teeth with barely any health for my first jaunt into the next level but heck. it's progress!
deft onyx
bow, with poisdon's push back on the Y spread cone. helped keep the adds at bay, and i had aphrodite's heartseeker on main attack
stable copper
good to know
deft onyx
😃
stable copper
i peaked with the seeking cast
deft onyx
yeh that did help a little, but i keep forgetting to cast
hard holly
Honestly, with Meg what boons you have is largely not that important
She is all about pattern memorization
stable oyster
Sudden Rush should be baseline for shields change my mind
stable oyster
But I need MOAR SPEED
hard holly
What if
We did make it baseline
And the new suddenrush replaced your attack with a charge
You dont have to hold it down at all
You just mash the key
stable oyster
They could give you the old one, and then have a hammer called suddener Rush
Hm...
That would be annoying in asph
Just shooting yourself into lava
stable oyster
“Fun”
Hypnos: have you tried not attacking
I’ve also been starting to value pos near Athena as far as attack ups go
hard holly
I mean their damage numbers are the same
Its a case of which effect you prefer
I like Athenas more generally, but I also play at high heat where every deflect oneshots as a result
pastel jolt
i like poseidon on bow and athena on the others
pastel jolt
true
tulip timber
I find Poseidon to be a lot closer to Athena than it was before, and sometimes can be better. Biggest outstanding issue is ongoing consistency problems with jumping enemies and the ash piles stopping knockback. Poseidon knockback still doesn't always function how you think it should.
I REALLY like Athena on bow special since patch. 😃 Makes hydra needles very funny.
plush blaze
Poseidon and Athena are both really good
Athena is a bit better imo just because of tartarus, you don't want to have to chase enemies all around the map
The lava damage from pushing enemies into lava doesn't justify the annoyance imo, so I prefer athena
tawdry aurora
Hi, is somewhere some kind of counter during walking thrue the chambers? ´Cuz I don´t know how many times I bought upgrade from chaos or chose to take boons or darkness insted of heals and what is the next chamer? Boss.
proud storm
not yet
tawdry aurora
but it will be?
proud storm
surely
but for now you can determine where you are in an area with charon rooms
charon appears once halfway through areas and once right before a boss
tawdry aurora
So if I see Charons doors second time the chamber after that is boss for shure.
proud storm
basically yes
tawdry aurora
Thanks
errant narwhal
hey, we don’t know if there will be an in-game room counter 🤷
acoustic crane
Guys sorry to budge in but i cant 'refund' in pact of punishment (there is no - sign). It's kinda game breaking because i tried to fill 'enemy health' to max to see if a minus appeared. Gahh. Does anyone have info on this?
errant narwhal
I don’t remember if that feedback was 🚫d
proud storm
ok so i'm doing a 60 heat run again and as it turns out athena's deflect is really good if you invested heat in more enemy damage
proud storm
look at this image and imagine how i'm feeling right now https://i.imgur.com/20x4sUB.jpg
SDFJS I LOST
NOOOO
god i'm livid
severe sinew
Im sorry Belgo
proud storm
like maybe 2 hits away and it was dead
shot that bullet barrage and i dashed in the wrong direction
severe sinew
Thats just sad, but you'll get it next time!
Or the next... or the next...
proud storm
note the 60 heat on the top right