so theres a great chance of getting the boon i want for my build
#h1-builds-and-combat
cold oriole
sullen tree
^
cold oriole
and if you dont get it, you just forget about the hammer
sullen tree
who doesn't start with god keepsakes?
hard holly
That minor if at all existing upgrade isnt worth losing a ton of damage
Like, you lose damage compared to not having a hammer
cold oriole
its a pretty freakin substantial upgrade
hard holly
Compared to triple, perfect or point blank shot?
cold oriole
if you use it correctly
hard holly
Hoo boy
hard holly
How does Rapid shot ever compare to that?
kind fiber
New artemis dash is busted
analog crystal
What did they do to it
kind fiber
It now increases dash attack damage
Rare version increases it by 143% when I picked it up
analog crystal
Im still updating i cant wait to hop on
analog crystal
Is that +143% or 143%
sullen tree
artemis first boon again
kind fiber
+143%
cold oriole
prob 143%
sullen tree
sweet
analog crystal
Jeeesus
kind fiber
Its busted
sullen tree
oh its specifically dash attacks
analog crystal
Ok at least its only attacks
sullen tree
interesting
analog crystal
If it was like casts too id lose my mind
sullen tree
looks like we can have that playstyle back
kind fiber
100% busted
hard holly
But yeah, rapid shot is bad, and it has nothing to do with "creativity", its just numbers
kind fiber
Or maybe +100% busted
hard holly
And the numbers are straightforward, youd have to be able to fire arrows 3 times faster just to do damage thats on par with point blank shot
analog crystal
Wait thats better than guaranteed crit
+143%
I swear they made it better from what it was before
sullen tree
wait is that +143% or 143%
analog crystal
The past version, which they had to nerf
kind fiber
Yeah, so its better than it was
sullen tree
that's better than most attack boons
analog crystal
Which was effectively +100% heckin hell
sullen tree
wtf
kind fiber
Just only applies to the first attack
hard holly
Actually, no
Its not multiplicative
Old version, being crit, was
Old version was better
kind fiber
Is it tho?
kind fiber
I haven't done the math here so I don't know how it is scaling
kind fiber
but its certainly +143%
hard holly
On spear it was definitely multiplicative
kind fiber
Keep in mind, that the epic version is better and it now has pom of power scaling
analog crystal
So 1 damage back stab would do 1+1+1 rather than (1+1)x2
sullen tree
crit was def multiplicative
simple hemlock
Can't wait till they get to patch V0.99999, we've got 86989 patches to go
still pewter
atm I feel like our options are very limited and not very interesting
simple hemlock
The charon one?
still pewter
I mean charon/well of charon
simple hemlock
I think a gambling chip would be interesting... Where you play 50/50, one is a negative effect, one is a positive one
You can also do double or nothings
So you could be in a bad position on a run and then gamble and it turns the run around
Or vise versa
Or be in a good position and become more steamrolly
analog crystal
Chaos's coin
simple hemlock
Yeah
That fits
It also means if you never come across boons, like I have in some rooms, you aren't totally boned
some runs*
still pewter
I like this as a roguelike enthusiast. it adds variety and leads to interesting stories. idk if it fits with the game though, or sggs design
sullen tree
man I love the spear this patch
analog crystal
Did they buff it?
sullen tree
nope
analog crystal
Or is it with the arty dash
simple hemlock
This content patch, or this recent patch?
sullen tree
but since arte dash was changed
content
I stopped using crit dash combos
so zeus is more appealing now
simple hemlock
I always use reflect dashes.
analog crystal
The rare one is 2.5x damage which is insaneee
sullen tree
but it seems like this patch is arte again?
simple hemlock
What does zeus dash do?
sullen tree
lightning bolt
simple hemlock
and that is better?
simple hemlock
Whats his attack, just chain lightning?
analog crystal
I'm kinda mad with what they did to artemis dash, I feel like it was balanced before it just needed a slightly higher % but this is worse than when they nerfed it (for a reason) loll
rugged dust
Artemis Dash is still a viable option since it's still universal Crit (the crits also apply to Ares boon)
simple hemlock
How do I send my suggestion to the devs... I didn't think of it until icathios asked, but now I think its a great idea 😛 I can't post in feedback section.
rugged dust
You need bot permission to post feedback
kind fiber
Ah
sullen tree
40% chance to crit
kind fiber
Probably pretty good
sullen tree
and that's the new 3x crit too
kind fiber
Averages out to be worse than the previous version
rugged dust
Btw, I really miss having Shield Blocking trigger Revenge effects... I know why they did it, but I wish they hadn't fixed that... ;_;
kind fiber
80% extra damage on average as opposed to guaranteed crits of 100% extra damage
hard holly
Gorgons were changed?
rugged dust
Does someone else think that the Shield could use a upgrade for blocking?
Like every time it blocks an attack it attacks for you?
hard holly
Hold on
Does the new dash count as a crit?
I got a crit upgrade boon in Artemis' selection
sullen tree
blocking procs revenge
that would be a nice upgrade huh
though honestly shield just need hammer upgrades
rugged dust
It needs some new ones yeah
Like the deflect when damaged one, that one is already like Athena's Revenge boon except worse
analog crystal
Okay, so you can get artemis crit chance on attack, and artemis +% damage on dash and it hecking stacks
rugged dust
that shield upgrade could be replaced with A) whenever you block an attack, the face on the shield will counter with a bite (attack boons can carry over) or B) "A" can be default, and with a new upgrade blocking will instead trigger Revenge effects
@hard holly what do you think? I want to see if I can improve on these thought before submitting them to the feedback channel
hard holly
I guess that would work, but the block needs to be more consistent first
rugged dust
Yeah I wanted to post about that too. It really could use a good visual indicator for where it can block.
indigo compass
what u guys think about the new hunter dash??
@stuck breach gratz , i just got a new record 35 heat with shield
stuck breach
i'd do more heat but gathering it is pretty slow
indigo compass
i have max heat but its far too difficult for me, specially with the meelee weapons
stuck breach
max heat? that sounds impossible
indigo compass
u think?
stuck breach
i mean, even if you double the enemy health hydra is virtually impossible unless you got perfect boons and poms
indigo compass
it just replaces quik temper basically:p
analog crystal
It does more damage than pre nerf, and you can also stack criticals on your main weapon
So you get +x% and then also a chance for 3x that
Before it was just +100% lmao
indigo compass
true , just weird first seeing quik temper go and then hunter dash becoming the new quik temper lol:p
empty crow
I enjoy how all three versions of hunter dash so far have bee busted
hard holly
Again, Im like 99% sure that crit before was multiplicative
analog crystal
@still pewter has my back on this one
hard holly
Mainly because the third spear run I ever had
Involved a 100% heartbreak strike
And a hunters dash
And the crits were 400, not 300
still pewter
I was sure it was multiplicative. then folks over here said it was additive. then I tested and turned out it was additive
analog crystal
hard holly
I mean, at some point it 100% was multiplicative
empty crow
holy darn shunters dash
indigo compass
they changed crit
simple hemlock
Shield pulverising smash... 150% damage to attack but no knockback.... but if you have posidens buff on attack, with knockback... you still get it... I've got 200% on attack with knockback 😛
indigo compass
with the major update
analog crystal
Multiplicative is so much better than additive @hard holly
So it was probably too OP with multi
hard holly
I mean, yes they did
still pewter
does "dash attack" include spear spin?
still pewter
is it considered a dash attack for the purpose of artemis and chaos boons?
hard holly
I would imagine no
rugged dust
@indigo compass do you have a screen cap or video? I would like to have a reference for what I should do.
primal folio
rip i didnt realize the room i was in had three options
I went for a Pom when I could've gotten an Ares/Zeus room
empty crow
all these changes making shield so insane
still pewter
"New unlockables for completing runs at certain Pact thresholds"
anyone figered what this is about?
hard holly
Of course, the second I lower the heat to unlock the new decor
I get a monster build
Its in skellys room
Bottom left
empty crow
monster build?
still pewter
and I tottaly missed those, so thanks uno
hard holly
Yeah theyre easy to overlook
Athenas strike, Hunters Dash, Perfect Shot and Urge to Kill
Though its for the best that I lowered the heat, Im playing like a bloody donkey
still pewter
there was an audio cue, but I didn't mind it the first time around
hard holly
How did I lose this
stable oyster
I got a hydra fight with no music, it was a bit disorienting
hollow totem
indigo compass
nice just finished a 40 heat run with shield, took a while lol
hard holly
I guess you have to play carefully if you increase the damage
But a good build like sudden rush should still suffice
indigo compass
max death insurance rly makes numbskulls annoying specially if they are armouredcoming out of skullomats:p
hard holly
Yeah
indigo compass
had rooms with 4 skull o mats right on one little island together with 2 blue gemstone enemies
and in tartarus i been getting alot of like full numskulls rooms with skullomat rooms right after it:p
very annoying
delicate fossil
How do y'all use the sudden sunder daedalus upgrade on the sword? The one that makes the nova strike blink forward.
quartz cliff
my gut tells me that you wouldn't
plucky olive
is anyone else having extremely inconsistent results when blocking with the shield? for me sometimes it stops charged attacks, sometimes not, sometimes bull rush blocks, sometimes not.
not sure if shield has a percentage based block chance or not
indigo compass
yes since they removed the deflect it has that
i dont rly use bullrush alot anymore because of that
plucky olive
its a is percentage based block now? or just broken?
indigo compass
tbh idk what is supposed to happen
maybe u can only block but not rush through an atk
plucky olive
i can't tell if its supposed to block 100% or just broken bc when i fight meg, i can stand still and block all her projectiles but its 50-50 taking damage if i bull rush or block her charge attack 😦
indigo compass
yeah i think u can only block while standing still tbh
i try to not rush through atks
plucky olive
for me rushing through the attacks was more consistenly blocking than sitting still. especially w/ numbskulls
direction detection might be a little borked then
forest marsh
Jousting Meg with bull rush is fun, I've found it to usually block the damage ¯_(ツ)_/¯
indigo compass
it did improve alot for me since patch
plucky olive
i'll do a few more runs to check then, haven't played the new patch yet
indigo compass
idk i think your not soupposed to be able to block through atks
but i would like it if they do change it to allways block in the charge:p
true dock
I keep thinking +500% damage for enemies is no big deal. Then the last multi-head phase for Hydra destroys me. So much goddamned area denial between lava balls, homing missiles, bloodless, random biting small heads, and ground pounding heads.
indigo compass
cause especially with heat runs things get hard real fast
lol i did 100 percent dmg once , 24 dmg from bombs, 500 percent is just insane
worn dawn
Haaaa just got my first successful run with 15 heat active
tough echo
Requesting tips for 60 heat.
warped raptor
Were sword animations changed? The last attack seems a lot more clunky and less cancelable then it used to be.
serene isle
How are people getting so many boons. Also
Is it just me or do I strangely feel "cheated" that I can't get cool synergies when I get boons
forest marsh
Lots of boons is generally a combination of good RNG and taking Trial of the Gods rooms
serene isle
Like boons are always "split" between your Cast/Attack/Special/Dash/etc
that you can't have 2 boons on one of them right
forest marsh
But lots of boons != a good build. I'd rather have a few good ones than 12 that don't work together
lost rose
yeah, and I just got to the hydra and almost killed it on a 15 pain run with like 3 ares boons and nothing else
serene isle
Granted, one of them was a level 8 Ares delayed damage boon
forest marsh
But yes, you can only have one base boon for each of Attack/Cast/Special/Dash
serene isle
It's so good. At that point I was wondering why even take any other god
@forest marsh I guess I would find it cooler to have more boons on one thing
It'd make for some cool interactions
but I KNOW that development wise
that's probably a nightmare
forest marsh
I think that would make it very hard to balance
serene isle
Especially if the parts aren't coded/designed in a modular manner
forest marsh
@mellow aurora Your feedback about the run tracker sounds like a bug - have you reported it in-game with F10?
lost rose
extra health on enemies? makes it longer and grindier but like. ultimately you can't be in a rush to finish a 60 heat run anyways
the usable darkness decrease is also fine
as long as you keep your triple dash you're golden
you can make up backstab damage with boons
mellow aurora
@forest marsh i guess i could report it as a bug. it just seems like an oversight to me but ill report it
worn dawn
Wat
serene isle
@mellow aurora What do you mean exactly.
IIRC. Artemis' dash boon gives you crits. For the bow, you have enough time to perfect charge a bow attack and still have it apply crits. I also believe the "dash to shoot" thing works with the Artemis dash boon.
So you can start charging, then dash to guaranteed that the arrow you release always gets the bonus crit
forest marsh
Nope, Artemis Crit Dash has been nerfed first, and now changed completely
worn dawn
Didn’t they just rework her dash
serene isle
Yeah they did
worn dawn
Now it’s extra damage on dash attacks
forest marsh
Artemis dash is now basically a boon version of Quick Temper that they removed
mellow aurora
its a completely new dash i just tried it out
serene isle
JUST now
worn dawn
Today!
worn dawn
I mean, a few hours ago
serene isle
good on ya Supergiant
worn dawn
But basically!
serene isle
Now I need to play a new run
mellow aurora
dude that dash was two patches ago where you been m8
worn dawn
Need to figure out a 60 heat strat that accounts for me being terrible
mellow aurora
im in the middle of a run but i can tell you when its over and have the pacts in front of me
worn dawn
I am determinnnned
If I can even beat Meg I’ll be happy tho, it’s so much grindier
Wish it wasn’t just numbers for heat, having permanent enemies dropping bombs and such would make for slightly less grindy play
mellow aurora
btw to answer my older question, the new artemis dash grants bonus dash attack damage. basically it replaces the old mirror upgrade that granted increased damage for the next basic attack after a dash
forest marsh
Oh, I thought I did answer that 
mellow aurora
and it definitly works for the bow and its super good with the bow at that
forest marsh
I'm very happy that they made 
's dash into Quick Temper v2
mellow aurora
same very good idea
lost rose
Hey KBM people, what key do you use for your special?? I hate the default Q, so I changed it to shift but I barely use that at all...
forest marsh
It's basically Quick Temper but Artemis-only
forest marsh
Maybe if you have a fancy mouse you can bind it to one of the extra mouse buttons?
is not a KBM player
dreamy jackal
Thanks
hollow minnow
Have you guys seen the update for "Thick Skin" in the Mirror of Night?!?!!? IT'S SO AWESOME I'M SO GLAD IT WAS ADDEDDDDDD
I LOVE IT SO MUCH 😄
knotty delta
yesss im so happy
wide stratus
Im stuck in a level coz i knocked one of my enemies offscreen and i have no idea where it is 😂
lost rose
@forest marsh i don't have a fancy mouse 😭
i'm only playing kbm because i uh. left the connector for my controller at the workplace i only go to once a week and have not been able to retrieve it yet ;;
forest marsh
Ah, not even back/forward buttons? 
I would be lost without them on my mouse, I've had mice with them for so long that it feels unnatural to actually press the back button on things
umbral forum
I have Boiling Blood maxed out (+50%). With or without a cast applied, the spear special shows 20 damage. Am I misunderstanding how Boiling Blood works? I would expect it to be 30 damage with a cast applied.
fierce estuary
Oh my god, I just unlocked the Orpheus's song and it's absolutely gorgeous. As expected, well done supergiant
So happy he finally found his voice
forest marsh
That feeling when you're 1 shot away from clearing a no-hit challenge and dash into a Witch's ball 
dreamy jackal
@frosty grove About your comment is feedback channel that any change can be unaffected for other players. You couldn’t be more wrong. Any change to the game must be made by someone. With the supergiant being small team, your suggestions would take away a lot of their resources to b justifiable.
errant narwhal
@mellow aurora we can’t discuss stuff in feedback so you do know sure footing (Athena’s trap damage reduce boon) also works on lava, right? Maybe it’s just me that isn’t good enough to not step on it but I’m personally really excited when I see that boon for this reason. I remember Dino got it once and after a couple of poms the lava just straight up didn’t do damage to him anymore
rugged dust
Does anyone have a spread sheet or something showing how much HP and damage each trash mob has?
forest marsh
I'm pretty sure they're all on the wiki
See the pinned messages in this channel for the link
rugged dust
Oh there's an updated wiki? I kinda thought there wouldn't be anything in detail.
forest marsh
A few of the people in this Discord manage it, and have almost since the game launched 👍
rugged dust
That's actually pleasant to hear. I'll definitely give more bonus points to this community for that.
You'd be surprised how many people don't seem to do that for an indie title.
forest marsh
It's mostly up to date with the newest patches, but sometimes takes a few days to catch up. People have other responsibilities too 😆
Looks like most of the enemies have stats though, or at least close approximations
rugged dust
Omg this wiki actually looks gorgeous
forest marsh
They do good work 
oblique karma
Im content with Q but ive seen some people change it to a secondary mouse button (if your mouse has those) or F
to the kbm question
shell ice
did anyone know you can release the spear charge by dashing? 
rugged dust
Yeah
forest marsh
Yup, it's a technique we call the spin-dash
Very effective and much safer than charging in the middle of a mob
rugged dust
Attack like Sanic
shell ice
only just figured it out myself by mistake
rugged dust
Anyway, when they show armor values. Is that the total HP with Armor, or the HP added on top of the base value?
forest marsh
Just the armor value
Which reminds me, I really hope they backtrack on the damage carry-over when breaking armor. It doesn't feel good to lose all the extra damage when the armor breaks
rugged dust
Ok so an armored Brimstone persay would have 210 HP in total?
forest marsh
Yeah
rugged dust
Gotcha
forest marsh
Though with the armor change, as mentioned, you will have to do more than 210 to kill it
rugged dust
Yeah
forest marsh
You could do 500 damage on the first hit and it would still have 60 left 
rugged dust
I'm trying to calculate damage numbers so I can try to optimize my heat runs to be less painful while remaining as high as possible (going for around 25-30 heat)
rugged dust
For Darkness limits I think that 1750 is a good cap since you only really need two dashes and bloodstones.
Most of the rest of it is playing with percentages; damage, healing, etc.
forest marsh
I'm not sure if it counts with the new one but I think it did for the old Quick Temper system
I could be wrong, though
I've used the new Artemis dash with bow and it works on that
rugged dust
It's a weapon attack for the spin
forest marsh
I don't see why it shouldn't work with spin dash 
shell ice
lets see
forest marsh
Oh, right, because spin isn't a "dash attack"
rugged dust
Yeah the dash still has its own effects activated when you perform it.
rugged dust
So if you had for example Poseidon dash with Ares Attack, you would push enemies away with the dash and curse enemies with the spin
Speaking of dashing, it's a shame Surge was such a sloppy mechanic. I would have loved to see it work better.
I remember in The World Ends With You where there was a Pin that replaced your dash with a Tackle that knocked around enemies.
That was such a fun thing to do.
Unfortunately Hades can't work that way since having long invulnerability duration would be too powerful. Maybe if Surge became a Roll like what Bastion had.
Btw why do Brimstones need so much armor?
shell ice
kill enemies without being hit
steps in lava
forest marsh
'cause they've been hurt before, so they feel that they have to put up armour to protect themselves from further heartbreak, Zatoh. Come on, have some empathy 
rugged dust
Then why don't the witches have as much? Lol
green musk
armor is based of base health
rugged dust
Not according to the wiki apparently
forest marsh
Nor from my own experience
green musk
Tanky enemies will have more armor
rugged dust
Brimstones have 50 base health but get 160 armor for whatever reason
green musk
Voidstones have a ludicrous amount of armor and health
forest marsh
Voidstones don't have that much health
They certainly have more armour than HP, though, from what I can tell from fighting them
shell ice
up to asphodels final boss 😮
I'm scared, this is the first time
forest marsh
Good luck!
frigid rain
Good luck!!
That being said, anybody have tips for Asphodel's final boss?
I always struggle against it
forest marsh
I haven't fought it in the latest patch, but the general advice is learn to avoid/deflect/destroy the projectiles, focus on one side of the map for dealing with summoned heads and work your way back to the other. Kill the red eggs that the green heads spit out or else they spawn Bloodless
Don't be afraid to observe what the Hydra does for a round or two to get the feel for the animation cues
frigid rain
Yeah fair
It's mostly the full armada of missiles that gets to me
Most everything else I've been fairly good at handling
forest marsh
There are 2 food drops, one in each of the top corners
they can be easy to miss, but can be handy if you're struggling
frigid rain
Aw what??
They moved 'em then, they used to be bound to pillars in the middle of the stage
forest marsh
Yeah, they redesigned it. There's now just four larger pillars spread apart from each other, no walls anymore
shell ice
rip ded
shell ice
is there another series after that or is that still the end? 🤔
forest marsh
That's still the end, for now
shell ice
👍
forest marsh
Based on the Q&A earlier today, I'm guessing we won't get a new area until a couple more updates. That's just speculation, though
shell ice
thats ok
frigid rain
Did they give an estimate on a new weapon?
forest marsh
No, sorry
The Q&A was really good though, in my opinion! Worth the readthrough of the answers if you have the time
Answers start at this post https://discordapp.com/channels/456889434672201729/477164376496013323/535883798655533067
frigid rain
Thanks!
serene isle
Supergiant puts new content and boon balances into new patch
Notice they didn't touch Ares delayed damage boon
Welp I guess this is still it
Oh did they remove our ability to post screenies of our games?
Workarounds
opal ravine
trying to figure out if I just flat out suck or if armour really is just overboard
serene isle
It depends on what you're doing
still pewter
armor is really harsh when you're using heavy melee, like sword
serene isle
Yeah. The inability to stun enemies when you hit is rough
opal ravine
all my succeful runs are just sword runs where I spec entirely into special
still pewter
you can try doing more bow
really solid
spear spin is also very strong
you can dash after you charge your spin, and you'll spin at the end of your dash
serene isle
And I will always advocate for ranged Shield
still pewter
lets you charge from safety
pastel jolt
tfw you see aphrodite's legendary boon and still take something else
still pewter
what does her legendary do?
pastel jolt
your weak effect has a 10% chance to charm enemies to your side for 5 seconds
still pewter
aah
pastel jolt
i was in the room right before hydra and i only apply weak on my attack, and this is a sword special build
figured i'd rather take dying lament since i also have sweet surrender
serene isle
Wait. I've never come across a legendary boon what
pastel jolt
legendary boons require that you have certain other boons before they'll appear
still pewter
you often get them by the time you're in ashphodel, and by that time you don't really knock enemies on walls anymore, you throw them in the lava. same with aphro legendary. You don't need charm vs hydra
pastel jolt
for aphrodite, you need to have one of her "base" boons (the ones that apply weak on attack/special/dash/cast) before you can get empty inside or sweet surrender, and then you need either one of those two for unhealthy fixation to appear
empty inside = longer weak effect, sweet surrender = more damage vs. weakened targets
still pewter
I suppose this issue stems from the fact that ashphodel is our final biome atm
pastel jolt
UGH
i just lost the hydra fight on the last heads phase
and it was all stompy ones too
still pewter
rip.
pastel jolt
sword
there's the build i had going into hydra
stompy bois are the easiest head to deal with imo
still pewter
stompy heads are especially tough with sword
pastel jolt
they don't do anything if you're not in range and they telegraph enough i can dodge out of the way
i just got sloppy and kept getting shot in the back by the hydra
still pewter
achilles betrayed you
pastel jolt
i get that the answer to this is "don't use bracer" but i'm trying to rank it up :'D
yeah he did
pastel jolt
probably!
serene isle
Here's that meme I promised Icathios
Alternative text:
"What Supergiant probably wants me to do."
"What I end up doing every run."
serene isle
❤
pastel jolt
me, coming into this trial of the gods room: hey, ares special would be nice
ares:
like seriously dude????
of course i'm gonna go with urge to kill when it's epic quality ;3;
still pewter
the game actively taunts you
serene isle
RIP ares.
still pewter
with rarity at times
pastel jolt
oh now it really is just taunting me
serene isle
As sad as it is to say
without the "heal back after damage" boon
IMO the special upgrade is still best?
pastel jolt
yeah, i'm starting to regret getting tempted away by the shiny purple
serene isle
LOL
Also, can I just say
that shield special makes Hydra encounter super "trivial
since it just eats through all the hydra's projectiles BEFORE the hydra even shoots them?
That's cool
manic goblet
there really are a lot of ways to cheese that part of hydra, huh?
pastel jolt
on the downside i am, unfortunately, two death defies down and only just starting asphodel so this run probably isn't making it to hydra anyways
pastel jolt
i am on zero heat because i'm Bad At Games
indigo compass
special with ares curse is pretty good:p
serene isle
Exactly friend
indigo compass
can just hide while curse does teh work:p
indigo compass
felt allmost mandatory with 40 heat :p
serene isle
if you can throw it at any random direction then triple dash to a safe spot
Rinse repeat 500x for game
Shield throw is good against meg, too
when she does that thing where she's stationary and throws the millions of star projectiles at you
you can literally stand still and spam special directly at her
it will eat through all her projectiles and come back JUST in time to be thrown again before another projectile hits you
pastel jolt
i haven't got ares special on shield but i DO have zeus special on shield
serene isle
OH then that's almost as good
Proceed to just never left click
and just right click everything then run away
😃
pastel jolt
this is a horrifying mishmash of a build that ran out of 'slots' for boons somewhere around the middle of asphodel to the point where, when i chose ares during a trial of the gods, all he could give me was the spare wealth boon
let's see how it goes
(also i say horrifying mishmash with all fondness. i love when this sort of thing happens.)
serene isle
SO MANY BOONS
pastel jolt
bah, survived the second head phase and then mistimed an attack
oh well, it was fun :D
yeah that's what hapens when you end up getting like three trials of the gods
serene isle
Oh jeez. 3 trials
pastel jolt
oh my god hypnos pls
hard holly
The game is trying to tell you not to go for ares special upgrades
serene isle
LOL Ares special would make your life infinitely easier tho
hard holly
Honestly, it should just automatically select something else when you try to select ares special
serene isle
Speaking of which I did finish this run earlier that I posted. 15 heat! https://i.imgur.com/4Zp2DlG.jpg
I'm planning on 60 heat next time
And yes. that's an ares special shield run
Sue me
hard holly
Im not gonna sue you
If you enjoy it, why not? I mean, its no different of a handicap from heat itself
But it is a handicap
pastel jolt
i finally maxed out the rare boon upgrade :'D
hard holly
Also, heavily disagree on that feedback
The shield special build is the worst one by miles
pastel jolt
i took like one or two levels out of the epic one to make the final push from 46% or so up to 50%
still pewter
wow, the nerf to zeus dash is more significant than I thought
hard holly
Its still pretty good tho
serene isle
@ UNO, I don't think I was comparing it to the OTHER specials, but I was more saying that, given the game's current implementation, it's often better for a Shield-player to throw than it is to attack. As bad as you say the special is, trying to get close and melee opponents/bosses who are mostly immune to the push is just too risky.
hard holly
No, it really, really isnt
The special does close to no damage
And scales awfully too
serene isle
That's why it's ONLY good with Ares/Zeus boon
hard holly
Its much better to either go for charges through enemies
still pewter
scales well with flat dmg
serene isle
Let me make that clear on the feedback
hard holly
Or for dash double taps
Its not good with those either
Even when you have Ares on shield special, it still does very little damage for how slow it is
serene isle
See, that's the point. Speed isn't actually a factor in hades. You can take 4-5 minutes to clear a room, but if you do so while taking 0 damage, then I personally think it's good
hard holly
My counterpoint would be that I can clear the room while taking 0 damage in half a minute no problem
still pewter
you should try some more heavy melee shield builds
serene isle
Is it boring/tiring to do it that way? Yes.
But is it the way that's gonna make it so that you clear the hydra? Yes.
@still pewter what would that look like, exactly
I might just be missing some SECRET SAUCE
hard holly
At best, shield special is a crutch for when you havent learned how to avoid damage yet
At worst, its not even good at that
still pewter
there's this playstyle of shieldcharging, then dashing away and charging again, rinse repeat. I don't really like it, but if you do it well, you're almost never gonna get hit by anything
hard holly
Youre probably more effective if you just get Zeus dash and dash all over the place
serene isle
^Why not
hard holly
Even with its nerf
serene isle
I mean, IDK. Shield toss spam + ares has been good to me. And IS a crutch. Since it means you can just randomly throw the shield somewhere and just focus entirely on defense.
But that's the deal. I don't see why I would even bother trying to do the other shield stuff if throwing it is "easier to execute, and safe, but just takes time"
Especially if nothing's really urging me to go fast
hard holly
Because its less fun and much slower?
still pewter
I mean, to each their own
hard holly
I for example see no reason to ever use the shield special
To the point where if I could unbind the key for shield only, I would
serene isle
I mean, I feel the exact same way about shield attack
hard holly
Unfortunately you cant, and the other 3 specials are viable
still pewter
just had a nutty zeus spear thrust run FeelsGoodMan
low heat though
I got quite a big streak atm, it's almost dissuading me for trying higher heat lol
serene isle
What's your streak RN
serene isle
- Wow. I mean I'm generally bad at this video game
You can tell because I shield special spam
still pewter
I've seen this a couple of times in the feedback channel
don't you guys think that we should be able to "buffer" some commands?
like bow attack or shield attack
serene isle
Buffer in what way
still pewter
if you press the attack button during the recovery period if the attack
the attack doesnt go through
that's problematic when you have to hold the button instead of spamming it
serene isle
Oh so like in fighting games
still pewter
I guess. I don't have experience in fighting games, but it's somthing that LoL does
adding this feature won't affect our weapons
but if you happen to click and hold during that recovery period
you won't be just standing around during nothing
serene isle
I do feel that the shield sometimes doesn't come out as fast as I want it to. It kinda contributes to me "not even bothering with attacking"
still pewter
instead, your attack will go through when it's supposed to, when the recovery period is over
it's a bit difficult to describe, but it will no doubt make shield, bow and even spear feel a bit better
serene isle
Sword barely has any lag anyway
still pewter
sword doesnt have any hold inputs
you're fine spamming
and while spamming, what I'm saying is irrelevant
serene isle
Sweet. I think I get it
still pewter
they are, but they can be a balance pitfall
tough echo
Maxing out Vicious Torment feels like playing Hades' no hit challenge throughout whole run.
But instead of onion for failing, you get real tears~
pastel jolt
wow. that's the first time in a while i've died to meg
in fairness it was my own fault for somehow forgetting i was debuffed from chaos and casting at meg a bunch
hushed parrot
pastel jolt
nice
hhhhhhhhh i hate when all three exits to a room are viable choices
i have 263 obols and a choice between charon's shop, a trial of the gods between ares and artemis (and i already have ares attack/artemis dash), or a blood gate
i might go trial of the gods in case artemis feels like giving me something nice...... ares might even be nice enough to give me urge to kill
serene isle
Just dont murder people
Another hydra bites the dust! https://i.imgur.com/WGeXrOj.jpg
still pewter
messing around in skelly's area actually reveals many minor bugs
I keep reporting them, but I wonder if I shouldn't, since they're reaaally specific and aren't noticable during runs
pastel jolt
one of these days i'm going to make some sort of printable reference guide for boons because i hate having to tab out and check the wiki every time i'm trying to decide if going for a god is worth it or not
serene isle
I didn't even know there were boon trees.
indigo compass
those gorgon projectiles are annoying asf:p
just had a room with like 4 of em at once they kept stunlocking me
still pewter
yeah. I kinda liked that they did 1 dmg previously. gave them more of a supportive identity. now they can deal decent dagame as well
I don't really mind the extra difficulty, I just liked their strong identity
worn dawn
Sword is my fav ❤
still pewter
I love it. althoug it gets you killed more often than not
pastel jolt
then again i basically sacrificed that run over curiosity as to whether hide breaker did still affect hunter's dash or not
spoiler alert: it does not
worn dawn
Just get flurry blade, then thrust becomes a non issue
Noted! Thanks for your sacrifice
indigo compass
ofc not
still pewter
wish there were some boons/hammer upgrades that encouraged the lunge attack
indigo compass
if u dont have crit theres no benefit:p
pastel jolt
well yeah i know that now
indigo compass
was pretty obvious:p
pastel jolt
sporto, i was curious because boons that depend on other boons to appear are usually of benefit to their prerequisites
indigo compass
once u get 40 percent extra enemies or more thrust becomes impossible
pastel jolt
so i was like, hey, maybe hide breaker still affects hunter's dash for some reason!
indigo compass
yeah but in case of hunter dash it was clear its just a quik temper replacement now
worn dawn
I think it was worth a shot, weird that they left the progression in
still pewter
yeah, but I think sparrow did well to test this. makes sense, but it validated their feedback
worn dawn
Usually they try to avoid boons that are literally unusable 😛
still pewter
the thing is you should never be able to get unusable boons by design
indigo compass
true
for me it was kinda dissapointing seeing some things go like quik temper and artemis dash nerf, i was really into the bow with hunter dash and now it felt like all power of the bow was gone
and now losing avenging gain made it alot harder for sword runs aswell
specially with all the pact of punishment stuff
worn dawn
60 heat run is so hard ;_;
worn dawn
Current goal is just to beat Meg with it
pastel jolt
honestly it's probably just an oversight
indigo compass
idk its just not as fun for me if it takes me 10 minutes to get trough a few rooms
pastel jolt
re: the hunter's dash issue
still pewter
oh definitely @ sparrow
still pewter
ya need to try something new my man
pastel jolt
eugh. okay, i have decided i definitely do not like chaos boons that take away my ability to see what's next
ended up stumbling into a poseidon room and that's..... basically worthless on a spear run
so now i have a lovely knockback dash that means if i dash next to an enemy, i can't actually hit it any more
still pewter
I think I only like poseidon dash on non-melee builds
pastel jolt
exactly
the only reason it's tolerable on spear is because it has a slightly extended range
but hey at least it wasn't poseidon attack on spear
still pewter
that can be kinda fun at times. throw fools in the lava
..and then you realize gorgon heads and brim/soul stones levitate
and cry in a corner
pastel jolt
FINALLY,
i had like 50-ish damage on the zeus attack boon
it's my favourite for spear runs because of how quickly you attack
still pewter
my last run was a pokey spear with zeus
super fun
btw, I'd like to have a more straightforward way to tell which weapon was used
pastel jolt
that'd be useful
still pewter
while holding tab or in the victory screen
I know you can tell, but it's a bit obscure
pastel jolt
right now it's impossible to tell what weapon was used in a run unless 1) a record was set 2) you had a hammer
oh are you KIDDING ME
still pewter
I think the "best" heat gives it away too
pastel jolt
ONE ENCOUNTER?
worn dawn
Oof
still pewter
for one second, I thought you somehow died from the lava after you won
worn dawn
That is deeply unfortunate
still pewter
what do yall think of the revenge boons
regardless of their powerlever, I find little satisfaction in picking them
pastel jolt
it feels more like a consolation prize for being hit
drifting hemlock
Things like Revenge boons and Aphrodites weak status i find no use for at all, making your gameplan getting hit, makes for a bad gameplan
still pewter
yeah, getting hit is something you're actively avoiding at all times. I'd rather pick something I can use proactively
drifting hemlock
if that makes sense im a bit drowzy from giving blood hahaha
pastel jolt
also i'm gonna start trying to plan out that reference sheet bc i feel like it'd be useful
it won't include, like, exact numbers
just like "which boon is which, and prerequisites"
still pewter
@south orbit do you think no hit rooms would be better if they had a greater reward at the end?
serene isle
Revenge boons are basically meh filler. They used to be interesting when you had the "heal when you attack something after you take damage" mirror thing
That way, you effectively always got the heal when you get hit
still pewter
Although I do agree that having the option to do them is probably core of the feedback
serene isle
No hit rooms are weird because I always feel that I get cheated out of a thing for the whole run
still pewter
I think they can be a fine addition to the game if a)they are optional, b) they give you extra reward
atm, it's not proper risk/reward design, rather there is only risk
south orbit
I think it would be a significant improvement to them. I thought the patch notes said they would, though it doesn't seem to actually be the case. Maybe I just misread something.
pastel jolt
oh! speaking of which, the patch notes mentioned Fixed an issue unexpectedly failing 'Perfect Clear' encounters near lava - does anyone know what that entails
still pewter
I'm pretty sure that you could fail the no hit challenge without actually getting hit
pastel jolt
well yeah thats' what a perfect clear encounter is
proud storm
yeah that
still pewter
you'd stay in the lava for a moment (not take any damage) and still lose
pastel jolt
yeah, i know i failed basically every one i encountered in asphodel by stepping into lava by accident
hopefully that won't happen again lmao
still pewter
like, for example dashing over lava doesnt dmg you, but it sometimes meant you were "getting hit"
pastel jolt
although i've yet to actually find one in asphodel since the patch, they've all happened in tartarus....
severe sinew
I like the Hades Challenges, but yeah the No hit one is pretty unforgiving.
I would maybe balance it out with, ALL enemies vanish if you lose the No hit challenge.
I still find it fun to get Onion'd even though it can feel unfair at times
drifting hemlock
If all enemies vanished then no hit rooms would be a godsent for speedrunners
would more likely be a get-hit room 😄
severe sinew
Oh yeah I forgot speedrunners!!!
Then it shouldn't be changed 
drifting hemlock
They could however change it up a bit say its a boon room, if you get hit now the reward is either darkness gold or health and if you get hit again its a burrito and hit once more its an onion
but yeah
tbh i like it the way it is now
still pewter
also, the onion could display on the boon list
to remind you of your failings
Slay the spire has a similar thing, where when you do a poor trade in an event, they give you 💩
severe sinew
That is diabolic!
I like that idea 
opal ravine
yay beat the hyda for the first time
wide stratus
Congrats!!
drifting hemlock
Good job!
wide stratus
And seconding the onion idea
still pewter
heads over to feedback
drifting hemlock
Along with showing it in the boon list, give Zag 3 purple lines of scent coming from his model to signify the smell of failure
A permanent reminder of your failure
pastel jolt
honestly i just like the idea that hades specifically gives you an onion for failing because zag just. hates onions.
pastel jolt
either that or he just thinks it'd be hilarious to watch zag bite into a raw onion
serene isle
Is this all an elaborate Shrek reference?
still pewter
zag hating onions is true character development
livid kraken
He can pick them off the gyros
still pewter
now THAT'S character development
drifting hemlock
Thats not onions, that's shoe laces
So, how are people liking the extra darkness from heat?
still pewter
mixed feelings
drifting hemlock
Yeah, when i read it yesterday (I havent had any runs yet) I was like .. " But i got everything darkness related "
but i guess since the hydra now doesnt give darkness, newer players might find use for it
stray radish
i mean, he can still hate onions
serene isle
Oh I freaking can't believe taht those things were Gyros
stray radish
even if they're in his favourite meal
still pewter
I just fear that systems like this encourage players to play the game in a way they dont enjoy
serene isle
I always thought they were like
Subs
Like subway sandwhiches
There is a talk about that on GMT
Where devs have to "protect players from themselves"
still pewter
on the other hand, if you want the extra challenge, the darkness is welcome
serene isle
Because, if given the chance, players will play in the most boring, efficient, and safe way
still pewter
congratulations, you played yourself
serene isle
insert meme here
drifting hemlock
I mean since the hydra doesnt give darkness anymore, I might use heat if i was a new player but if it still gave darkness I'd rather ignore darkness and ensure the safe darkness every run
livid kraken
I think there are enough casual games. I'm happy Supergiant gives you option to customize difficulty to a degree and make it really hard
serene isle
Definitely. I'm trying for 60 skulls
still pewter
sure. I just fear, players will just make the game unfun for themselves in order to optimally get the resources
drifting hemlock
Since they nerfed amount of enemies and ignore dmg instances and also fixed the falling rock boys I feel like i wouldnt have much trouble doing a 135 heat run
still pewter
on the other hand I find the statues really great. the challenge is recognized for what it is and the reward is only bragging rights
drifting hemlock
statues?
serene isle
wait. falling rock boys were fixed?
still pewter
..and skelly's glorious postures
livid kraken
Statues in the training room
drifting hemlock
Yes, AoE has been decreased @serene isle
serene isle
Oh that. I thought they finally fixed the whole
"Falling rock boys stay in the air forever"
Because they still do that
still pewter
never encountered this bug
livid kraken
me neither
livid kraken
no, you can unlock everything from one run
drifting hemlock
what are the next tiers of punishment?
serene isle
They'll only drop down if you stay in their shadow for a set number of frames
still pewter
maybe 150
still pewter
ah yeah, that's how they work. they do feel a bit one dimentional. maybe they could drop if you keep kiting them for a long time
pastel jolt
120 for the third statue, yeah
drifting hemlock
@livid kraken since you are the best of the best of the best at this game do you know what the last challenge tier is hetwaise?
heatwise*
serene isle
I would prefer if they dropped after a set time yeah
Because as it is now it's kinda weird that to beat the falling rock enemy
you purposely stay under them
then just perfect time a dash
It's skill-intensive yeah
But just weird
proud storm
elite skullcrushers are the WORST
pastel jolt
actually i think they do, because i've definitely had survival rooms where they've just sort of chased me around in a circle and then dropped out of the air when i'm like a screen away
livid kraken
you mean the last statue for heat? No, I spammed it to open and didn't see how much it is
Can screenshot you the statues if you want to
still pewter
yeah. you can manipulate them which is good, but it also creates awkward situations
livid kraken
150
still pewter
yikes
serene isle
IIRC it's 15 60 120
drifting hemlock
I guess ill do smaller runs actually to confirm how much the last one is, 15 and 60 should be a breeze
livid kraken
Asphodel is the most difficult at the moment. If you can do the zone and not die you should be fine. Assuming you know what to do at Hydra.
drifting hemlock
Nothings changed right? Spare for health amount
livid kraken
I go +2 dash, +2 death defiance, +1 cast, +2 dmg if cast is lodged and +1 backstab
I don't find +10 health useful
drifting hemlock
Since im doing 15 and 60 first ill just go with a maxed mirror
but yeah prior to patch i went with a similar build
still pewter
what keepsakes do people use for 150 heat?
drifting hemlock
I use zeus or ares
proud storm
i would assume cerberus' or meg's
livid kraken
I go for Zeus first to get left click upgrade and then it's pupper keepsake for +60 hp
still pewter
ah, so the +60 is relevant
livid kraken
It let's you tank one hit
still pewter
interesting
serene isle
woah +60
livid kraken
usually
serene isle
What rank is that
proud storm
3
livid kraken
3
still pewter
yeah, 3 is max rank
serene isle
Big ups on the doggo upgrade
proud storm
skelly's keepsake gives you one death defiance charge that brings you back to 45hp at max rank
livid kraken
pupper and skelly keepsakes are pretty much the same on max dmg
doesn't really matter
drifting hemlock
for anything dealing more than 45 but less than 60, puppers would be stronger right ?
so theres a better reason to take that
depending on your current health i guess
livid kraken
Yeah it depends. I didn't bother trying to min max between these two. It's really close
pastel jolt
45hp at max rank? ooh, then does anyone have the second rank info for skelly's keepsake
i'm assuming it's 30
still pewter
it only makes sense that it'd be 30
livid kraken
Hydra projectile hits for 42 so maybe skelly is better specifically on that
drifting hemlock
oh well, I gotta go work out (Gosh darn new years resolutions) and get some food (Gosh darn human body gotta survive) so I'll be going! Gonna be fun unlocking statues when i get home 😄 Good luck on your runs! Godspeed! 😉
thorny current
so did someone unlock the 3rd statue?
still pewter
isn't it unfair that we get to unlock the statues when the game is only as long as it is?
I image on release, people will have to do the whole game to unlock them
it doesnt really matter
livid kraken
It's just cosmetics so it doesn't really matter
still pewter
people who want the challenge will do the whole game with heat regardless
livid kraken
Can't wait for that. I'm tired of that Hydra to be honest. At this point I could right extensive guides about that snek
still pewter
yeah, snek gets old quickly at this point
do you think they'll add multiple possible bosses per biome?
I hope they do, but actually don't think they will
man, I'm so spoiled by etg
that game is so rich in content
livid kraken
Idk. I don't have strong opinion if I'd like that or not. I like seing different zones so the more the better for me
what's etg?
still pewter
enter the gungeon
still pewter
gotchu
livid kraken
What do you think would be bigger achievement. Full no hit run on normal or no hit max heat hydra kill?
One day Aegis will be good on bosses. I have a dream
still pewter
probably full no hit run
if you have figured the hydra out, you should be able to no-hit it regardless of heat
livid kraken
6 head phase always gets me ot least once
still pewter
since the fight just gets longer
livid kraken
on max heat
still pewter
I'm not really one to talk on the subject though, I don't have all my heat unlocked yet
and am probably not skilled/patient enough to do max heat
livid kraken
Some mob+room combinations in Asphodel are really nasty
still pewter
yeah. the game isn't really balanced around being able to avoid everything
healing is abuntant and certain enemies are really fast on their attacks
livid kraken
It doesn't make it impossible and I'm very glad for that
still pewter
you're meant to take damage
yeah, sure
other games do design with no hit being a possibility and even reward it
but yeah, it's awesome that it's still possible
I wish hades was a bit more designed around being able to avoid damage
idk, it's weird. this can be very polarizing
livid kraken
It does have deflect and dash. I think that's enough for current enemies to not take dmg
still pewter
sure
at times though I feel like I'm cheesing when I'm deflecting everything and dash spam
wide stratus
OH GOD i survived the hydra with 2 hp left and no lives o(-( godddd
still pewter
maybe that's fine
wide stratus
First time completing it with the shield for me
wide stratus
Hahahahah
wide stratus
Ill do it
wide stratus
He died
still pewter
there is no escape
wide stratus
zag said “well that was interesting” and i still got the to be continued screen
still pewter
yeah, that makes sense
still pewter
rare hades right there