thank god
#h1-builds-and-combat
dire crystal
fallen lintel
empowering nova on sword is really good now
crits after special
not being a sitting duck after special helps a ton
silver plover
Blade Dash is so OP with 3 dashes
vague hearth
The shield throw does what
twin crag
love the name btw
vague hearth
Thanks, I was proud of this one
twin crag
its a goodn
dapper heart
It IS a good one.
remote stratus
wait, does shield throw randomly dmg you guys sometimes?
I kept getting hit and wondering wtf
dapper heart
Apparently! I'm getting on and checking too.
fallen lintel
don't think it's possible to knockback meg at all, esp not with the new sword special
second strike with sword appears to be x2 and thrust is x3
sword is way faster, world strike doesn't benefit from that buff though, the 400%
(presumably)
vague hearth
Nice
fallen lintel
so i wouldn't recommend taking world strike unless you already have synergies or something
vague hearth
So that means 60 damage from a combo?
fallen lintel
ye should be
dapper heart
That sounds rather inappropriate out of context.
vague hearth
Pffff
copper night
dont nerf spear pls
vague hearth
Real talk though, those changes look like such a good quality-of-life improvement
And I always appreciate those
pearl willow
hm, just crashed twice in a row. thinking it might have something to do with the Ares legendary.
vague hearth
Also Orpheus doing what he does best
harsh kelp
Yeah that bow might make me become a bow main lmao
copper night
Speaking of bow changes. I think I should try it now.
harsh kelp
Trying new sword now
fallen lintel
mm epic hunter dash start next run
finite shadow
if you can, it would be great to report it darkwaffle, along with a screenshot of your build
we've been unable to reproduce the ares legendary crash so anything would help guiding us to it
fallen lintel
at first glance the sword buffs didn't seem too great but i'm having a lot of fun with them
vague hearth
What's the ares legendary?
Imo the sword should be doing the most damage at base due to it not having the range that the other weapons do
fallen lintel
x2 and x3 is massive
vague hearth
So the fact that it does means that it's a viable choice now
pearl willow
i'm submitting the reports through the bug splatter, can also do so on discord if it helps.
turbid needle
I had a weird bug (maybe) happen with the sword and ares boon on attack
pearl willow
aw that crash that broke my run entirely lol, reset me back to the start with skelly ๐
turbid needle
I got the healing upgrade and was getting healed for WELL over 10% 9f my hp every time ares damage procced
finite shadow
noooo
turbid needle
Basically never dropped from max hp as long as I kept attacking
fluid moat
natively piercing arrows heckin yes
finite shadow
i think we scrape a good amount of info from the crash reporter -- sorry about the crash! hope to clean up this legendary boon that is Too Legendary
pearl willow
it's all good, played a ton of hours with only two crashes now, hardly anything to complain about
turbid needle
How do you even get legendaries? Is it just rng or? I've yet to see one in like 100+ runs
vague hearth
I've seen one in my 30 or so runs
uneven shuttle
There's a bit of info on the wiki about it, but basically, there are upgrade paths you need to get Legendaries.
pearl willow
they seem to have some pre-reqs so you can only get them if you have some of the other boons from the deity already (i think)
uneven shuttle
If you don't pick up a relevant T2 upgrade, they won't show up.
When actively trying to work toward it, getting Legendaries seems pretty doable.
vague hearth
Because I know the zeus one gives more bouncy zaps
uneven shuttle
I haven't put it up yet, but Zeus one requires you to have already picked up Chain Lightning. Which itself requires you to have picked up a lightning effect with bounces.
turbid needle
Do you have a link to the wiki I can take a look at?
uneven shuttle
turbid needle
Thanks
sage sky
So, ares run done, still feels sub-par imo
harsh kelp
Idk, the agony damage carried me to Hydra
Upgraded it twice to where it was doing 80 bonus I think
Plus bow piercing applied it to multiple people in one shot
sage sky
I mean, it went from being really bad to be at least decent
But decent or not, it's still sub-par
sage sky
When you compare it to boons like zeus's, aphrodite's or athena's, you don't really want ares still
harsh kelp
But he'd probably do something similar to Daedalus hammers
sage sky
He could also be all about fire
vague hearth
I think he'd give damage and speed boosts to attacks, maybe
Or just
Set them on fire
sage sky
I mean, he's the god of forges, yes, but he's also the god of fire and volcanoes
vague hearth
What if he had a cast that had a buildup to it
dapper heart
He might be Too Busy, maybe?
vague hearth
Like
The more times you hit the same enemy with cast, the bigger the resulting explosion/eruption would be
Kinda like the component powder in shovel knight plague of shadows
I love how I seem to be able to find a comparison from a different game to every idea I or someone else has
frigid robin
oof guys
hydra fight
is the shield is a bit wonky for you guys?
fierce estuary
First time getting to Hydra today. Got carried by sword with a bug that heals off of the Curse damage from a sword attack. If you stop attacking after the third hit, and wait for the damage to proc, it treats it like damage from Thrust
oblique karma
Demeter could be an interesting god
to have as a boon giver
especially with her relationship with Persephone
oblique karma
hi grandma
narrow girder
Also, Demeter is quite resentful to persephone's relationship with Hades, isn't she?
I imagine she'd be quite a mean granny
flint totem
Blade rift dash and extra range on blade rift is hillarous
fierce estuary
I think the surge moves are terrible. I can never find a use for them other than suiciding into a group of enemies
oblique karma
oh, i got deleted
uneven shuttle
Are file-content spoilers allowed in this channel? ๐ค
oblique karma
uhm, story goes, hades kidnapped persephone and demeter was so unhappy she refuses to bring spring until she was returned
flint totem
They changed out the surges for actual dashes
oblique karma
hermes (another god idea btw ) goes and brings her back
rich lantern
@fierce estuary Then you should get the latest patch ๐
narrow girder
@oblique karma ah - I've heard a lot of modern interpretation about their relationship it seems
oblique karma
@narrow girder thats just based on what ive read, there are a looot of interpretations
narrow girder
gotcha
unique swan
I'm having a rough time with the shield right now.
flint totem
I do like it tracks what weapons you complete a run with now
unique swan
I could always get past Tartarus with it and now I'm struggling with megaera :I
flint totem
But also means I have to redo all the weapons run just so the game has it that I have finished it with all weapons
calm hedge
Has anyone actually beaten the game? I thought there wasn't an ending in early access
oblique karma
currently, the end game is the bone hydra
flint totem
There is an end point
calm hedge
I've gotten to the boss with the long neck and Bone face, is this the "Hydra" y'all are speaking of?
grim storm
It is
oblique karma
its called the lyeran bone hydra... so yes
calm hedge
that's the end?
oblique karma
thats the end point . there isn't an end game so far
grim storm
Hades himself mentions that if you beat the hydra too
oblique karma
because this is early access
calm hedge
Sweet
wispy mirage
hey I just got an ambrosia from one of these challenge chest, do you guys know if there are other new things we can get out of them?
kind fiber
I'm pretty sure I saw an ambrosia in a chest before the patch
flint totem
Quick question has anyone tried flurry sword with the new patch and does it do 10 damage per slash or 10 then 20 then 10 again?
vestal snow
I think it goes 10-20-40 or something like that. Hard to tell because it got mixed up with backstabs and wall smashes.
vestal snow
yeah that makes sense
flint totem
I mean with the flurry upgrade though
kind fiber
Oh
flint totem
The one that takes away the thrust
kind fiber
uh its probably 10 20 10 20 since the final hit is cut out
vestal snow
yeah that would make sense
flint totem
I just thought I would ask to see if anyone has tried it yet
sage sky
Wow that multi shot nerf is rough
flint totem
What it do?
flint totem
Yeah...that thing was like why would I pom the cast damage when I have a multiplier
sage sky
Well, after a while, the cast damage got you more than the extra projectiles
kind fiber
Ares + life drinker is pretty amazing
On the primary attack that is
Only a 25% nerf?
It got off lucky
turbid needle
Hey fellas!
Can anyone grab me all the new damage values for the base sword attacks?
flint totem
10 20 30 is the basic combo
indigo compass
hows the new bow range?
kind fiber
Did it get more range?
indigo compass
yes
kind fiber
I thought it just got piercing without an upgrade
flint totem
It feels amazing with inherent pierce
turbid needle
Thanks Stray!
indigo compass
Heart-seeking Bow: shots natively pierce through foes; slightly increased max range; slightly reduced power shot recovery time
flint totem
Honestly the power shot recovery time definitely has made it feel a lot better
flint totem
It definitely feels like it can actually take on crowds now especially with the triple shot
indigo compass
yeah it feels smoother now
heady zephyr
yeah, the innate piercing on the bow is excellent
esp when you combine it with a good boon, like ares curse or poseidon knockback
turbid needle
Do you guys know the proper names of the default three attacks for the blade?
worthy dust
I can tell you the last one is Thrust
sage sky
@kind fiber No, it's not "only a 25% nerf" it's a nerf TO 25%
turbid needle
The AoE one is thrust?
flint totem
hm?
the combo for it is slash>slash>thrust
the aoe is the special
or I am I being stupid
turbid needle
Okay but what im saying is that there is proper names for the attacks
uneven shuttle
Yeah, I'm not sure if Specials have specific names. In the files it's Parry, but that's a pretty bad for it name imo.
turbid needle
How many possible upgrades are there for each weapon
uneven shuttle
Yeah, I'd just stick with Special
turbid needle
Because I have 9 different icons for the blade
I figured 3 of them were for default attacks
and the other 6 were upgrades
uneven shuttle
Depends on the weapon, you can find almost certainly find a list in Game/Text/HelpText.en.xml
fluid moat
interesting they gave more invul states to Hydra + Meg
I'm guessing to stop the 1 cycles
kind fiber
@sage sky Oh damn. Does the epic version start out with more projectiles at the very least?
turbid needle
how do I open that file?
And I know that the default weapons have proper icons and attacks
sage sky
Nope. It's still the same from normal to epic
uneven shuttle
Which should also tell you which one goes to which
I just use Visual Studio, but any text editor should work
Starts at line 443
Through line 545
turbid needle
hmmm
uneven shuttle
I'm talking about upgrades here, for the record
Figured that's what you're interested in
turbid needle
ig they really are just called attack and special
I thought the defaults would have icons
uneven shuttle
I'm pretty sure there's no specific name for them, but not totally sure.
turbid needle
I thought because theres an icon with the name perfect shot under the name bow
but maybe thats an upgrade?
uneven shuttle
Upgrade
indigo compass
prolly cuz its easy to understand in game , just look atk or special
flint totem
upgrade
turbid needle
what do you call the default perfect shot then?
flint totem
that is the power shot upgrade
indigo compass
charge shot?
uneven shuttle
Also, did Pie 5 talk with you about the boon tables?
kind fiber
Life drinker is busted
indigo compass
power yeah sorry
indigo compass
thats a upgrade
turbid needle
that clears it up, thanks folks
uneven shuttle
Power Shot isn't the attack name, it's the name for what happens when you release while it blinks
flint totem
Well power shot is default for timing the shot with timing
turbid needle
yeah i know that
indigo compass
perfect shot and sniper shot
kind fiber
Doin a life drinker - heavens vengence build right now. Purposefully taking damage and healing it back to trigger the revenge damage
turbid needle
i just thought it was called perfect shot not power shot
uneven shuttle
Alright, nevermind; the Skelly tutorial DOES name the attacks
flint totem
Does it?
uneven shuttle
For bow, it's:
Fire
Volley Fire
Power Shot (is a thing you can do when you fire)
flint totem
Oh right it does
uneven shuttle
For sword, it's
Strike
Nova Smash
For spear, it's:
Strike
Spin Attack
Throw
For shield, it's:
Bash
Defend
Bull Rush
Throw
For sword, part of the attack pattern is called Thrust (the 3rd swing), too.
turbid needle
awesome, thank you!!
im gonna make some tables in the wiki
i knew those icons had to be for something xD
sage sky
So, after a few calculations, if you optimize your upgrades on the new multishot, it goes from a 38% less damage nerf (with normal quality cast) up to a 60% less damage after 8 upgrades
flint totem
oh wow the nerf really hit it hard
kind fiber
Yeah I don't think it needed to be nerfed that hard but picking it up at rank 1 is still a 25% damage buff to cast if nothing else
sage sky
You need 3 upgrades on damage before the 3rd projectile is actually worth taking
Yeah, if anything, that just shows how insane the old multi shot was
I mean, after 9 upgrades, you ended up with 1k5 damage per cast on a normal quality one
rigid sphinx
im sure bow is the best wepon in teh game now
flint totem
...I would be lucky to get 5 upgrades in a run
kind fiber
So you can get money boons from gods multiple times
just got vast riches twice from athena
sage sky
Speaking about the hydra, you shouldn't be able to skip any phase now, unless you do a mega-hit
rigid sphinx
i had a run with where i killed hydra with bow in like 5 minutes
not hydra kill took 5 minutes
the run took 5 minutes
sage sky
Used to be, it finished its current attack before gaining its shield. Now it will just gain a shield in the middle of its attack if it reaches the set percentage of health
grand patrol
the sword knockback is so weird bc id gotten used to the rhythm of nova-GRRRR-nova-GRRRRR on the big guys....gotta stay on my toes now
turbid needle
Knockback was the only thing that made me use the sword special before so Iโm happy haha
limpid ember
Can you at least deflect the hydra arrow things now?
indigo compass
no
limpid ember
๐ฆ
indigo compass
only the ground pound as far as i can tell
worn kelp
posted this in the feedback channel, but do you guys feel like damage-on-dash effects are a little bit too strong?
Like Zeus' lightning bolt, especially if you can get it to deal 70+
I find if you just spam dash around enemies you can kill them pretty effectively while also being really, really safe
sage sky
You have to try the new poseidon dash
Not only do you do tons of damage, you also knock stuff into the walls/lava
hoary ivy
I'll be on the lookout for that then
worn kelp
yeah, I just tried it today!
sage sky
Meanwhile, ares still gets the short end of the stick
worn kelp
that's what made me bring it up, it's nuts!
flint totem
It is pretty crazy once you get the rift range increase at least
worn kelp
especially with ranks in +dash charges you do sooo much damage just spamming space ๐
sage sky
It's still B-tier in a world where everything is A-tier
turbid needle
I got the zeus dash for the first time yesterday
sage sky
Only athena's is kind of also on the weak side
turbid needle
and holy cow
sage sky
It's pretty good, but hard to use and kind of slow. If you could deflect the hydra projectiles, it would be much better, but as it stands, there's a few situation, including the hydra, where it kind of undermines you
indigo compass
deflecting those would be a little too op maybe
kind fiber
@sage sky Its actually a pretty good dash after you get the aoe upgrade
indigo compass
specially with high dmg builds
sage sky
As I said, i'm not saying it's complete trash. I'm saying while it's good, the others are still better
kind fiber
I think its probably better than Zeus's dash
sage sky
No way
limpid ember
Zeus dash is huge dmg
kind fiber
Did it get buffed?
What I remember of it before the patch wasn't that great
Its better than Poseidon's in of the fact it works against bosses
sage sky
Not when compared to aphrodite's, and not as usefull as artemis's, but it does a lot of damage.
kind fiber
Its like 30 per at base right?
sage sky
More like a little under 50
kind fiber
Did they buff it?
Cuz I remember it dealing about 30 before
The area of effect upgrade is huge for it
worn kelp
I was wondering about that actually, how do damage values for Boons work?
is it based on rarity, does the room you're on count for it too?
I don't see the same damage value on the same boon all the time
limpid ember
From what I can tell, base damage is based on rarity, damage per pomegranate upgrade is same for all rarity
worn kelp
ahh, gotcha
limpid ember
And on some abilities there is some random variance
worn kelp
hmm, I didn't know you could get boons from Sisyphus! ๐ that one doesn't sound very good
limpid ember
wait, you can?
sage sky
Yeah nah, tried it again, the ares one is really bad. You don't even oneshot numbskulls with it.
worn kelp
it was just changed too, right?
Although I guess maybe that's the place dash skills should be at
sage sky
Yeah
worn kelp
since the rest feel so above the curve
worn fulcrum
ares also has blade rift synergy stuff
sage sky
But that's the thing, the other dash skills are all pretty much S or A-tier, while ares is stuck in B-tier
Like, that's still better than being D or F-tier. But with everyone else doing even better, that's still bad
worn kelp
I agree, but I think I'd rather see the other dashes brought down to Ares' level than Ares' brought up to the other dash's level
I feel like I'm sort of circumventing the core combat with things like Poseidon's
sage sky
Yeah, I did a full run with only aphrodite's dash, it's completly absurd
worn kelp
ouch, yeah D:
sage sky
I love the artemis dash tho. Doesn't do anything on its own, but it's really great support when your basic attack is already pretty strong
sudden radish
The artemis dash is great with the spear. You can charge the spin and then dash crit. So good.
The aphrodite boon that makes weakened enemies take more damage can get real crazy real quick. I don't see it that often though.
sage sky
It got nerfed, so it's not as bad as it used to be
kind fiber
In what way did it get nerfed?
pearl willow
it was applying twice, now it's applying once. the raw % the boon applies has also been reduced. still very good though.
kind fiber
Oh I assumed he meant dash for some reason
sudden radish
That makes sense. It seemed too goodl
sudden radish
I see they buffed Charon's trinket which I already used so awesome. What other trinkets do you all use?
kind fiber
I just use the god trinkets to try to force certain builds
sage sky
I only use the hourglass now. Get treasures early on, stockpile gold, get a ton of items is asphodel, doesn't matter if your build is trash, you will go through everything
It's just absurd
sudden radish
that's basically what I did before.. Some would stack too. Getting two instances of the speed one is sweet.
sage sky
For exemple, i did a run where at the end of each encounter, i healed for 45% HP, and had +120% damage for a while.
sudden radish
The +60% Cast damage makes Artemis True shot damn near broken. And the +40% melee damage is basically another free boon.
sudden radish
Charon's. The boatman. It makes items last more encounters/rooms.
sage sky
Charon's. Now gives +4 duration to items you buy
harsh kelp
ohhhh
kind fiber
@harsh kelp +4 duration to well items
sage sky
So you just buy damage and healing stuff, and you're pretty much unstopable
sage sky
And if you get the one that gives you a chest in each room, you never run out of gold
sudden radish
yep
sage sky
Now it's 7
sudden radish
lol I used the purse for the same reason until I got the aphrodite poster.
harsh kelp
I have the Achilles poster and the weapons
and I wont consider this game beat until I get that poster
also bow is ridiculous now
beat Meg 3 bow runs in a row
sudden radish
I need to try it again I guess. I haven't played since the patch today. The spear and shield just seemed so much better before.
sudden radish
Good that sword needed some serious love.
kind fiber
Got a lil too much
sudden radish
The special just leaves you open for so long and its damage was too low to make up for that. Imho.
kind fiber
well they increased its radius and gave it knockback
Damage and end lag is still the same tho
sudden radish
well the knockback should help with that.
kind fiber
Bow feels so much better to use
sudden radish
I guess I will stick to sword and bow runs for a while to check it out.
harsh kelp
the knockback feels very good
sword went from worst weapon to middle for me
I think shield is worst now?
worn kelp
the shield gets points for versatility
harsh kelp
the bow buffs are really great tbh
worn kelp
but I guess it has been nerfed twice in a row
twin crag
does anyone have any suggestions for meg? ive beaten her once and i can consistently get her to half health then i die to too many projectiles
kind fiber
@twin crag Back up when she starts shooting projectiles? Get the dash upgrades at the mirror ASAP
worn kelp
Deflects are really good against the projectiles if you can get one
otherwise I find a little bit more aggression than normal helps, if I let the fight go long I eventually make too many mistakes and die
indigo compass
just get some range and walk side ways;o
twin crag
yeah even from there i get hit by em or from witches (is that the right mob)
worn kelp
gotta really go on the aggressive during her recovery windows!
indigo compass
yeah clear witches asap:p
kind fiber
@twin crag Yeah they are called witches. You can hit their projectiles regardless of what you do
worn kelp
Spear with the Daedalus range upgrade was helpful for me too
kind fiber
@twin crag What weapon are you using?
worn kelp
aside from damage-on-dash kind of thing
twin crag
yeah its just reponding to everything at once
turbid needle
even if you can deflect her projectiles you can destroy them by attacking them, which is better on some weapons than others
twin crag
that was a bow run, and i tend to go between bow and shield
turbid needle
you gotta hang back when she uses her bullet hell move
much easier to dodge if you're way backed up
kind fiber
@twin crag Well, if you back up enough, you can just keep sending arrows into her skull destroying her projectiles and allowing you to focus on dodging the projectiles of other monsters
bright mulch
Got my first hydra clear, poseidon dash too op lol
sudden radish
yep keep distance. After she dashes she is open for a few hits. the special on the bow can take out a lot of projectiles for you. upgrading the dash is a must.
twin crag
ill try that
bright mulch
The entire back half I was just dashing
twin crag
btw im on max dash
kind fiber
Good
sudden radish
good
twin crag
always worth it
harsh kelp
I havent used poseidon dash yet
kind fiber
Yeah its great
twin crag
its a good one
kind fiber
Aoe knockback wherever you dash
sudden radish
Really? I only ever use either the zeus or aphrodite dashes.
kind fiber
Its good with the changes
sudden radish
I'll have to try it
kind fiber
Now its a normal dash with an aoe knockback around your destination
kind fiber
Instead of being a "surge"
harsh kelp
on its own I dont think its great
kind fiber
Yeah, its bad without the areas passives
sudden radish
Personally I think most of Ares's boons are kinda weak.
sudden radish
I skimmed em'. It said the time was reduced but not sure how that translates to play.
bright mulch
Ares is really good with bow
harsh kelp
Curse of Agony with bow is insane
kind fiber
@sudden radish It means that for the sword, you can get 2 curses off in 3 swings
sudden radish
Awesome. I was started to get to set in my ways with my spear builds. Glad to see they buffed other things instead of nerfing what was good.
harsh kelp
I hated spear once upon a time
and then I figured out how to bring the spear back
and everything changed
vestal fjord
But if you take Ares curse, doesn't that mean you can't take other gods attack bonus that also increases your base damage?
harsh kelp
do you guys spin with spear? I never do
worn kelp
I spin most often when things are spawning
sudden radish
I never throw it.
kind fiber
you can charge the spin, teleport and deal 100 damage in a new area
harsh kelp
waaaaaaaait
worn kelp
what? I didn't know that
harsh kelp
you can charge and dash?
kind fiber
Yes
harsh kelp
WOW
worn kelp
neato!
harsh kelp
I NEED TO CHANGE MY NAME
vestal fjord
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
sudden radish
Yes.. You charge the spin. Dash behind them. Then win.
kind fiber
It also benefits from crit
narrow girder
that's intended?
indigo compass
they changed it:p
kind fiber
so artemis build makes it amazing
indigo compass
no more backstab i believe
harsh kelp
all hail Varatha
twin crag
whats a good build for the bow to aim for, my first boon is cast, attack or special from Aphrodite
sudden radish
Say it isn't so.
kind fiber
@indigo compass No it still backstabs
twin crag
oh god that spear thing sounds dumb
kind fiber
@twin crag Attack build is probably best
vestal fjord
Attack for her
harsh kelp
I'd go attack
sudden radish
Being able to artemis dash crit backstab spin is so good.
narrow girder
@twin crag attack
twin crag
sounds good thanks lads
kind fiber
Dash is also good
vestal fjord
The bows new piercing means everybody gets weak fast
kind fiber
But cast is probably poor with the new patch in comparison to other cast builds
worn kelp
how do you guys like to run cast builds, anyway?
I feel like you're screwed for bosses if you invest in cast primarily
narrow girder
zeus
vestal fjord
Zeus with extra chain links
harsh kelp
I never run cast builds
sudden radish
I almost never used them until I started having issues with the hydra. Now I love cast build.
kind fiber
@worn kelp well, i dunno anymore. They nerfed the cast bonus in artemis.
sudden radish
using Zeus or Artemis casts helps with the heads.
worn kelp
hmmm
do you guys ever run out fighting bosses though?
I haven't gone very far in the +cast upgrades so I don't know how high it goes
but I feel like it doesn't scale well against, say, Meg
kind fiber
like 260 240 +
vestal fjord
I mean, you can't rely on casts for Meg.
bright mulch
Artemis has a boon that makes the casts drop out of enemies faster
kind fiber
Against meg with a cast build you just run around and wait for her to drop your old casts
worn kelp
ah gotcha, so that's not a personal problem!
kind fiber
@bright mulch They don't drop out of enemies as they never go into enemies. They just drop when the ability finishes
sudden radish
Yeah the cast doesn't come into its own until "late" game.
vestal fjord
But I've eventually gotten good enough that I don't need many attack buffs to beat her.
worn kelp
I suppose Ares has that cast that doens't get eaten when it hits an enemy, but it's veeeeery slow
vestal fjord
And Zeus casts helps a ton in the second area
kind fiber
Ares has some good support for the cast build if you can get his passives
worn kelp
good to know! On both counts
kind fiber
- area size, + duration and tracking and apparently his legendary pulls mobs into his casts
kind fiber
A lil bit of luck, but you need to have a number of other boons from that god for it to have a chance of dropping
sudden radish
neat. I always avoided ares like the plague before. I'll need to hit him up more now. and yes it is luck I think
kind fiber
Yeah hes okay now
harsh kelp
his new art is great
kind fiber
I haven't taken a look at it yet
indigo compass
- Impact Blast (Daedalus - Spear dealt backstab damage unexpectedly
was under bug fixes
twin crag
daedalus: point blank, steady, or perfect?
silver sonnet
I tend to favor the power shot 250% one
point blank is technically best on bosses if you play it right htough
worn kelp
250% power shot is especially good now that there's innate pierce
twin crag
hmm good points. i might go perfect, im pretty okay at getting the timing
sudden radish
Yeah all that pyre practice paid off.
static field
bows are bonkers i think this patch because they broke dash attack making it twice as powerful. it triples dmge
silver sonnet
bows are way strong right now yea, the pierce by default removed its only real weakness
kind fiber
I dunno man
I think it would be way better even without the piercing, they buffed other things as well
twin crag
mmm only epics from ares sounds good
silver sonnet
it was already one of my most consistent hydra killers
kind fiber
You looking for advice on which one to pick up covfefe?
sudden radish
yeah the range was surprisingly low for the bow. The shield was better at hitting ranged enemies.
twin crag
yeah sure
kind fiber
Which ones are they?
twin crag
ill always accept help
silver sonnet
its just way more consistent now because you can't get screwed by several skull pile spawns
twin crag
special, cast, and dash
kind fiber
Thats a bad selection
Cast is best, dash is difficult to use without support, and special I don't think is good for the bow
static field
skull; pile was never my problem with it, the only times i lost with bowman was the hydra fight and if i didnt pick up an attack boon to pair wiht the artemis. now the hydra is way easier because he only shoots the bullion bolts whgen hes isolated and they also bugged out quick temper making it deal 200% bonus instead of 100
twin crag
ill try cast, i havent used the ares cast yet
harsh goblet
I think boons are not balanced. some are better than other, period
limpid ember
That will always be the case
vague hearth
Yeah, but that makes sense this early on
limpid ember
Unless they go with some super boring stuff like everyone gets exact same boon
vague hearth
And it'll still be the case on the finished product
kind fiber
Its fine for boons to not be balanced, ideally all of them have their place at sometime
limpid ember
^
vague hearth
Perfect balance is nigh impossible, and in a lot of cases, makes for boring gameplay
harsh goblet
and bow has low attack speed which is sad to see
kind fiber
It feels way faster now
vague hearth
Not necessarily
worn kelp
it's kind of fun to make bad boons work anyway
dapper heart
A part of me wants to do a Yet Another Stupid Death list.
limpid ember
Oh, completed runs tell you how many wins you've had with each weapon now
twin crag
aphrodite's sweet surrender boon sounds useful. thoughts? other options are dash or special
limpid ember
Sweet surrender one of the best boons in the game
twin crag
thought so
limpid ember
Her dash is good too, but surrender so good
twin crag
im not an abolute walnut
kind fiber
@twin crag Used to be amazing. Not sure how good it is after the patch
vague hearth
Sweet surrender? What was that again?
twin crag
damage vs weak
kind fiber
+damage to weak foes
limpid ember
Extra dmg vs weak
harsh kelp
if you have good set up for weak its good
I ran it when my only other aphro boon was dash
and it was okay
it was a bow run so I wasnt dashing in
twin crag
my damage vs weak percent was 13
kind fiber
@vague hearth Yeah they patched it, haven't seen it yet so I dunno how much they nerfed it. But they also removed a bug that was causing it to more damage than what it said it would do
They nerfed it hard
It used to be like 60%
Is it even worth taking now?
uneven shuttle
They cut it down to about 1/3 of what it used to be.
twin crag
now ares special, dash or revenge damage
kind fiber
Not special as bow
uneven shuttle
Common gives you 10-15% extra damage vs. weak.
kind fiber
Maybe dash if you have to
limpid ember
Not really a fan of any of ares stuff tbh
kind fiber
Revenge damage maybe
uneven shuttle
Epic gives you 2.0-2.5 times that
vague hearth
1/3 seems reasonable tbh
uneven shuttle
So ballpark, an epic will get you about 28% extra damage.
limpid ember
So how would you rank gods that you'd like to see, on avg, start of the run?
dapper heart
Aphrodite and Ares for me.
limpid ember
For me I'm thinking Zeus, Aphrodite, Artemis, Athena, Poseidon, Ares
dapper heart
I love Ares's curse on attack because it means HIT AND RUN HIT AND RUN
kind fiber
Aphrodite, artemis, Poseidon, Ares, Zeus, athena
harsh kelp
curse on attack is great
vague hearth
I like the ares boon on shield throw
limpid ember
Woah, Zeus so low @kind fiber ?
kind fiber
He has a good dash, but I don't think his other stuff is worth much
vague hearth
He has a nice cast
kind fiber
Ehhh its okay
limpid ember
Eh, Zeus cast, dodge, and attack are great imo
uneven shuttle
Yeah, the dash is good
toxic acorn
i'm struggling with bone hydra a ton, i can get to it almost every time with spear & shield but i just haven't been able to beat it, any advice?
uneven shuttle
But then again, Artemis' dash reigns supreme
limpid ember
Special depends on the weapon, it's okay though
vague hearth
If you use the cast well you can get more use out of it because it can bounce to weaker enemies
kind fiber
@toxic acorn How do your builds look?
limpid ember
@toxic acorn attack the egg things that count down, 1 hit they go away, if they reach 0 they spawn an add
uneven shuttle
Also, is Poseidon's Dark Waters boon an actual boon you can actually get?
vague hearth
Dark waters?
kind fiber
I don't remember a boon by that name
toxic acorn
i like the ares whirlwind spell
uneven shuttle
Yeah, have any of you found a boon called Dark Waters.
toxic acorn
so i usually use his trinket
limpid ember
Hydra always goes smash head -> shoot arrows repeat
So after the head smash jump behind a wall
uneven shuttle
It just gives you Darkness, apparently. I haven't seen it, but it might(?) be implemented
Imma assume it isn't active for now
kind fiber
@toxic acorn Aphrodite is amazing for attack and dash slot damage, poseidon's dash is amazing outside of boss fights. artemis's dash is amazing support for an attack focused build
uneven shuttle
It's listed in the menu stuff, but not in LootData, so, makes sense I suppose
kind fiber
@toxic acorn Ares's cast is okay, but attack builds are better right now
twin crag
woops. repositioned my hand and dashed in the wrong direction. rip
toxic acorn
im bad at not getting him when i go for attack
twin crag
i play games really well
toxic acorn
thats the crit one right
toxic acorn
oh the slow one?
kind fiber
Yeah
It has invulnerability frames so you can use it to avoid damage even if you get hit during it
uneven shuttle
They added invuln. to all the dashes this patch, @kind fiber
kind fiber
@uneven shuttle I assume athena's has more
uneven shuttle
Probably not, IIRC it's the same dash with deflect and a 0.2s charge time
kind fiber
@toxic acorn Artemis's dash is amazing for damage
uneven shuttle
Which USED to mean it was the only dash with invulnerability, save for the very start of the surges
Not anymore though
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
kind fiber
It seems to have invulnerability for most of the dash, I dunno how many invulnerability frames other dashes have but I assume its less
twin crag
aww hell daedalus hammer for spear and its all special related
thats sad
limpid ember
you get that a lot
uneven shuttle
I'm like, 80% sure it has the same invulnerability stats. I'll check if deflection lasts longer.
limpid ember
since most of them affect the special
uneven shuttle
But first, gotta fill out Zeus stuff
twin crag
oh i didnt realise you could recall the spear so quickly
sudden radish
Wow just did my first run since the patch and they made the hydra fight way easier right/
kind fiber
Yeah
He doesn't do the larger wave of projectiles while you are fighting the other hydras now
sudden radish
yeah that is a real life saver. Literally I suppose
kind fiber
I think he does less damage with them as well
not 100% sure
Maybe they have less stun?
I dunno
sudden radish
Well they are slower so you don't get locked up in stun like you used to Ithink
I used the bow which is way better too. I got the upgrade that is 350% damage but charges slower. I still ended up using the special more than anything though.
the regular attack was definitely more usable though.
kind fiber
The regular attack is far better than what I remember it being
sudden radish
Yeah the longer range and pierce makes it darn near playable. Still think I prefer the spear though. Will do a couple more runs with it and then the new improved sword.
hoary ivy
The bow is amazing now I've only failed one run with it since the patch
pearl willow
epic oceans bounty turns minotaur heart into 52 hp, why can't i always have that
harsh kelp
52 my word
hoary ivy
@vague hearth are you also a fruit 
vague hearth
Well
hoary ivy
Or are you a 
pearl willow
the spear with the hammer range upgrade and poseidon attack looks super cool
uneven shuttle
Kiwi fruit is the devil, I tell ya
And not just because I'm deathly allergic to it
But probably mostly because of that
hoary ivy
uneven shuttle
Accurate
hoary ivy
Can't believe I had a reason to use that emote
uneven shuttle
lmao I was pretty impressed by the specificity
hoary ivy
Yeah I'm a NZer
vague hearth
As long as they're not on the road they're usually not dangerous
hoary ivy
What weapons does everyone use the most here?
vague hearth
I like the shield and spear
hoary ivy
Mine is pretty obvious lol
static field
bow
kind fiber
I was using spear for awhile but the patch buffed the sword and bow alot
vague hearth
But I might start using the sword after this patch
twin crag
shield then bow
uneven shuttle
Then probably sword, even though it was bad and is still meh
hoary ivy
I need to try new sword
vague hearth
Also I like the shield bash and shield throw so I'm not gonna be using it until the throw is fixed
But first I'm gonna see if I can die in the weapon room because of it
trail summit
Throw fixed as in getting hit by your own shield? is that a bug or intended?
hoary ivy
Bug
vague hearth
Nah, it turns out Zagreus is unco-ordinated as hell
In the next patch he loses the ability to catch his spear too
dire crystal
lmao
uneven shuttle
added a 5% chance to hit yourself with the spear on return
trail summit
lol, I was just thinking it was some kind of penalty for abusing the range of the shield.
dire crystal
nah its a bug
vague hearth
Nah, it's bad game design to punish the player without making it clear why
trail summit
had curse of pain/agony from ares and I one-shot myself
uneven shuttle
Def. a bug
static field
honestly playing shield using sheild trrow takes too long. i think its better just dash attacking and punching with it and charging with it
dire crystal
its a hilarious challenge to try and play with ares' new special
vague hearth
OOF
dire crystal
because its like "ah if you dont dash at the right time you just die instantly"
vague hearth
I just find it fun to bash and throw
The bash is satisfying
And the throw is pretty fun too
So naturally I forget that the bull charge exists
turbid needle
So im gonna make a wiki page called "Combat" and include things like chain, knockback, wall slam, and backstab
anything else i should need to throw in there
oh area of effect
static field
there is this cornered thing
static field
anyone know if perfect landing in the bggining of the game has any gampeplay effect
turbid needle
It does not
vague hearth
He does a wee spin
vague hearth
And it makes the game receive an instant 10/10 rating everywhere ever
I'd say hazard damage such as spike traps, arrow traps, the lava and the smoky craters
OH
The falling rubble as well
And I suppose hitstun too
And armour
vague hearth
It basically means it can't be stunned until the armour breaks
uneven shuttle
Yeah, critical is pretty important. Right now the Artemis article doesn't even have an explanation for what crits do 
vague hearth
80
fallen lintel
oh ok
vague hearth
I had that question earlier too
uneven shuttle
Sword swings are each their own weapon, first does 10, second does 20, third does 30 and applies knockback
So 4x20=80, yeah
oblique karma
perfect landing? what that lol
fallen lintel
good thing they didn't leave it as 4x10
vague hearth
If you time a dash just as you land in tartarus, he does a spin like when you click in the house of hades
And it says "perfect landing!"
oblique karma
didnt even know that was a thing lol
grand cave
^mastering the perfect landing is key to mastering the game
grand cave
if you hit the perfect landing youre guaranteed to win the run on style points alone
uneven shuttle
I forget, when you end up in the Chaos, do you fall the same way?
If so, can you perfect landing them?
vague hearth
Yeah, Hades is just like "oh damn" and you win instantly
fallen lintel
i'll test next chance
vague hearth
I'll need to try that
pearl willow
has anyone had the legendary poseidon boon? i'm seeing an additional blue effect on them but i dont think im seeing an additional knockback
oblique karma
its an delayed knockback so idk how useful it is
grand cave
in all my runs i have yet to get a legendary boon feels bad
oblique karma
oh damn, my boys a beast at perfect landing, go on get out of hades
i think i just had the fastest meg run ever with athena deflect
pearl willow
ah, yeah i see it. it's working, probably just not very useful in it's current form lol.
oblique karma
yeah
i think a better boon would be... maybe if you wall slam you heal? that sounds too op lol
pearl willow
i think if it just double procced the knockback immediately following the first one that'd be fine
turbid needle
Im gonna make the combat page tomorrow with all the stuff discussed, unless someone wants to beat me to it and do it while i slep
uneven shuttle
I'm not gonna be able to do much on the wiki for the next week or so, but good luck ๐
turbid needle
Thank you for the help thus far sir!
dire crystal
beat hydra again, funny that the message says "you won 4 times, using 1 time with the shield and 0 times with all other weapons"
insinuating i won 3 times without any weapon
golden steppe
Is there a way to restore lost progress? I lost a run's worth of progress when the hydra crashed my game by summoning an endless stream of enemies
analog jewel
I just beat meg by spamming sword special with a triple-upgraded Aphrodite special boon
I don't think I damaged her once with my regular attack
wow
south comet
haha nice
thats what i did on my first few shield runs in tartarus
spamming my special
fallen lintel
i tried to get a perfect landing out of a blood gate exit and it just buffered a dash
limpid ember
What is perfect landing?
fallen lintel
if you time your jump right at the start of the run you get a perfect landing
which does nothing
fallen lintel
but it brings up text saying perfect landing!
limpid ember
XD
fallen lintel
and the roll animation
south comet
i have a question, sorry if this has been answered before. does anyone know if the backstab damage increase that you get from the mirror applies to all damage? like specials and boons that make your dash deal damage? or is it only the basic attack?
limpid ember
It should increase anything that pops up the "backstab" text
toxic sinew
Quick question: can someone explain to me exactly what Avenging Gain does in the mirror? Is it literally just "hit the attack button immediately after getting hit" to reduce the damage you just took?
turbid needle
how exactly does criticals work
limpid ember
Heals you back based on damage you just took, if you immediately hit the thing that hurt you
turbid needle
how much more damage, how often do they trigger with no boons
limpid ember
Normally, 2x damage
But Artemis has a boon to increase that further
They don't trigger without boons
turbid needle
oh really
okay well ill have the critical page up on the wiki tomorrow
do backstabs natively do more damage or only with the mirror perks
limpid ember
I can't remember, you could remove them on the mirror for a moment to check
turbid needle
ill probably do that
indigo compass
ill check
toxic sinew
Pretty sure there's no backstab without mirror
indigo compass
yeah thinking the same:p
toxic sinew
I ran without them for a while and never noticed a popup
limpid ember
Dash probably, it's pretty good
harsh kelp
Yeah and the fact that it's rare makes me want it
harsh kelp
Went into the twin boss fight and slaughtered lmao
Okay so now
Artemis boon
Cast (epic), critical damage boost (rare) and more ammo for cast (epic)
indigo compass
cast
harsh kelp
I'm think damage boost or cast
kind fiber
Cast
indigo compass
artemis cast is chill for witches and stuff:p
harsh kelp
Okie doke
turbid needle
Crit boat is amazing if you have good crit chance
harsh kelp
162 damage bah gawd
kind fiber
its an epic cast, and it blocks a possibility allowing you to get better results from other gods
tawdry cairn
Cast, good for taking out the hydra heads.
harsh kelp
I've got 50% crit
turbid needle
Yeah maybe cast though
harsh kelp
Aight I went cast
It's an Artemis run btw
Can we talk about how good triple shot is
Especially after the patch
Three penetrating arrows clears rooms like crazy
harsh kelp
My other choices were 100% more special shots or faster charge time but less damage
So I figured I'd try this one
indigo compass
but i had the perfect shot one last run and its pretty strong:p
yeah its good the triple shot
harsh kelp
Ooh an aphro boon
Wow these SUCK lmao
Special, resist, or revenge
I gueeeeess resist?
toxic sinew
Damage resist is nuts. Once or twice I've rolled a 50% DR from Aphrodite
vague hearth
Do I want big strong nova, nova giving crits, or dash nova
I only have pos dash btw
indigo compass
ide say strong nova
i dont liek the dash one
or no crit sorry:p
crit is double dmg so
tawdry cairn
dope, what weapon?
oblique karma
bow
tawdry cairn
Still havnt gotten a bow win myself, just spear and shield
oblique karma
ares dash and artemis crit% up synergize rly well
tawdry cairn
Was ares dash lvled up?
analog jewel
yeah, it's good now
tawdry cairn
Still havnt tried investing in it
vague hearth
Pos dash with three dashes is nuts
analog jewel
they removed surge
oblique karma
they just made it so you dash and leave behind a rift
analog jewel
and now it just leaves a blade rift where you dashed from
and it's really strong especially with multidash upgrades
oblique karma
also, i just got a cutscene that said zagreus, but it didn't have any voices
tawdry cairn
Demon sounds like a bug
oblique karma
yeah ill post that right now
tawdry cairn
basically it just says you succeeded, but eventually fell anyways.
oblique karma
yeah
tawdry cairn
just read the patch notes, so many buffs in there
anybody worried they are about to start dishing out the nerfs? lol
"removed hunter's dash" I can see it coming.
oblique karma
they do have to balance some stuff, but if they nerf too much people will definitely complain
untold trellis
I didn't see it mentioned in the patch notes but the charge shot with bow is fixed with mouse and keyboard!
It now goes in the direction of the mouse cursor after the dash
vague hearth
Ok
pastel jolt
personally iโm excited because i might actually be able to get through asphodel now
vague hearth
Poseidon dash + Aphro special + Super Nova is kind of insane
untold trellis
And fighting skull spawners no longer makes me want to quit and swap off the bow!
oblique karma
๐
tawdry cairn
numbskulls are so anoying on bow. I always take the ares keepsake and get curse of vengance to deal with them when I go bow.
oblique karma
thankfully, bow pierces on default now!
tawdry cairn
I ya, one sec gotta do a bow run
oblique karma
also @untold trellis i noticed that too, feels so much better
tawdry cairn
There is no escape
tawdry cairn
Go pet Cerberus, you'll be ok
harsh kelp
At least I got to talk to Meg
I love Meg
Alright one last run then bed
Another bow Artemis run lesgo
Got perfect shot off daedalus as the very first drop
vague hearth
Rare ares cast, epic curse of vengeance, or ares attack
Oh wait
Hmmm
I'm doing a pos dash + super Aphro nova build
tawdry cairn
what weapon? In general I'd go ares attack moreso now that it got a buff
tawdry cairn
If you are using Nova then the vengace is probobly pretty good
vague hearth
Aight
tawdry cairn
can definitely help if you get a super hectic room in Asph
fallen lintel
what does poseidon dash look like now
oblique karma
if nova already knocks back, is poseidon's special boon bad?
fallen lintel
i know ares dash
oblique karma
its a dash that does aoe knockback at your end position
fallen lintel
ah
vague hearth
Poseidon or ares? Which is harder to fight?
oblique karma
poseidon imo, ares' is just small rifts that are easy to dodge
vague hearth
Ok
oblique karma
poseidon is just sometimes your enemies will gain water jets
and fly towards you
which can be kinda scary
tawdry cairn
Pay atention to when the main head is shooting, get to one side and slowly outrun the wave, when the heads spawn clear out one ASAP to give yourself a safe space. otherwise just zone
lost rose
Don't die
:P
But yeah what alu said
I go for the bombardment heads first personally
harsh kelp
So I got Ares agony damage to 114
I did Meg so dirty that I'm now honorbound to marry her
vague hearth
Mission failed, we'll get em next time
oblique karma
lmao yikers
oblique karma
yeah new hydra doesn't feel so obnoxious to be against
vague hearth
Yeah, that felt pretty fair tbh
I haven't experienced the other one
But this one felt fair
sudden radish
Yeah the new hydra feels much more fair.
vague hearth
Also Orpheus sounds so niiice
toxic sinew
What was so bad about OG hydra? I only fought him once or twice, so I can't remember too many differences
sudden radish
It was mainly how many projectiles it fired while the other heads were out. For me at least.
tawdry cairn
It was more the flashing and slowdown stuff for me, but some of the behavior is more readable
vague hearth
I like the new nova with three dashes on
sudden radish
I felt like the projectiles were too numerous to dodge while in the open so you were forced to stay behind the walls where the other heads would tear you apart. Lots of frantic dashing and praying
vague hearth
It makes it feel like I'm chasing down prey
sudden radish
for me at least.
vague hearth
Also yeet nova is fun
sudden radish
I've finished a run with all the weapons now and the bow and sword are significantly better, but I still feel the spear is the best. New bug with shield is kinda infuriating.
dire crystal
The changes in hydra are pretty big
toxic sinew
@sudden radish What bug with the shield?
sudden radish
sometimes when you use the special your gods boon is applied to you.
toxic sinew
Oh yeah
sudden radish
I weakened myself with aphrodites and I heard Ares boon can nearly one shot yourself.
dire crystal
- The single fire projectiles are slower
- The huge burst of projectiles is only fired when the extra heads arent spawned
- I think it spawns more skeletons? It feels like it spawns more skeletons
- I wasn't randomly knockback screwed in any of my attempts and idk if im lucky or if that was removed.
sudden radish
Yeah it def feels like it spawns more skeletons
toxic sinew
I manage to forget about shield special because I'm too busy dash attacking for dash bonus damage and backstabs XD
dire crystal
it isnt a ton of changes but just the one main change of changing the burst spam to not happen while youre also dealing with all the head projectiles and everything makes the fight feel better
especially because the burst would ministun you into every other attack
oh, also the projectiles seem to curve more. they home in a little bit better and loop back around
toxic sinew
@dire crystal Now that I read that and think about it, yeah, it does feel better because of all that
sudden radish
Yeah the projectiles do seem to heat sink more. It may be a biproduct of them being slower.