h1-builds-and-combat

[bold grotto]

or attack boons overtuned

[kind fiber]

What do you mean power upgrades?

[bold grotto]

like things that change spacebar on keyboard

which is universal

[kind fiber]

The dash upgrades

[bold grotto]

you throw like a magic missile

[kind fiber]

the cast ability

[bold grotto]

yea

[thorny sun]

i found some dash upgrades useful

[turbid needle]

those can be really good if you invest in it a little bit

[bold grotto]

I mean maybe?

[kind fiber]

Artemis offers some powerful upgrades for the cast abilities

[turbid needle]

dash is great

and yeah

[kind fiber]

and some of the dashes are amazing

[thorny sun]

i like zeus, artemis, aphrodite, athena dashes

[bold grotto]

The thing is with attack mods + crit they stack so you can pretty consistly get 100+ attack every hit you do if you ignore the other mods for the most part

dashes I admit are good when you cant get the above mentioned right away

but the others meh

[kind fiber]

The thing about the cast abilities are that they get better and better the more damage you have as you'll be able to both deal more damage and get your casts from the enemies back faster

[thorny sun]

some of the casts can work pretty well but in general focusing on attack is more reliable

[bold grotto]

This is where I feel like I'm taking crazy pills cause I dont think i'd use the cast ability even if it had no useage limit

at all

[kind fiber]

Uh

Would you use it if it dealt 400+ damage on every cast?

[thorny sun]

I had an epic zeus cast that brought me far

[bold grotto]

it's just slow, animation locks you, and does less damage since you cant get 100% critrate every game for it

[kind fiber]

Well

Are you aware of the modifier on artemis that gives you multiple casts per use?

[thorny sun]

that's a thing?

[kind fiber]

it scales incredibly quickly if you obtain it, although it is much less reliable, giving you easy 800+ damage per cast from a distance

Yeah senor

I think its called multishot or multi cast or something

[thorny sun]

i only ever chose artemis cast once, seemed underwhelming

ill try that out

[bold grotto]

I'll try it, but i'm pretty skeptical it will keep up with Asphodel very well

since the cast is so slow and the dps about the same

[kind fiber]

It starts out giving you + 1 cast, but every time you upgrade it gives you another full damage cast

[thorny sun]

what are your opinions on the posiedon and ares dash?

[kind fiber]

Trash

[thorny sun]

trash

so awkward

[kind fiber]

Too slow, not enough vulnerability frames

[bold grotto]

yea they literally nerf your character haha

[kind fiber]

They are basically downgrades

[thorny sun]

yep

[bold grotto]

okay so you think there's a build for casts- ill see if I can make it work for myself at all

what about the special attacks

[kind fiber]

It can work, but its less reliable

[bold grotto]

I can't every make them do something

[kind fiber]

Sword and bow special attacks are terrible

Spear special attack is usable with the right upgrades

[bold grotto]

they just come with too long a cast time

[copper berry]

sword special is decent early game when there is no armor, since you can stunlock whoever you are using special on

but once enemies get armor, you are donezo

[thorny sun]

yes

it just has so much lag

[kind fiber]

I haven't used the shield special attack too often so I dunno if theres some way to make it work

[bold grotto]

it feels like everything with a cast time is going to wind up being too difficult to survive with even if they have the damage

[thorny sun]

shield special is a reliable way to do damage

[kind fiber]

I don't have a reason to use it early as it just leaves you open to take damage

[uneven shuttle]

Hey, does anyone know if there's a straight, across the board damage boost boon for Athena? Also, does she have a "last stand"-type boon?

[thorny sun]

problem is in asphodel it kinda bounces off into the distance and takes forever to come back

[bold grotto]

I mean when 4 witches are shooting volleys from 3 angles how do you survive other than dashing like mad and using basic attacks

if you stand still for like 1 full second you're half dead

[uneven shuttle]

I'm just putting info on the wiki, but I'm mostly going by file data, and not all of the boons in the file are actually implemented

[kind fiber]

@uneven shuttle Not as far as I know. She has two useful passives in the form of a damage reduction passive and a second or so of deflect after each time she takes damage

[bold grotto]

can confirm no flat damage boon from Athena i've seen

just Ares has that

[thorny sun]

which makes sense

[bold grotto]

and its super low for who knows what reason

[kind fiber]

@bold grotto So for the record, the cast build does have damage potential because of the multicast passive you can get from artemis, but is unreliable due to its reliance on the passive

[uneven shuttle]

I also can't get the official names or descriptions from it, so some of this'll be placeholder 'til I remember the actual names

[bold grotto]

i'll try starting with the Artemis boon then @kind fiber

Kinda like how I start with crit every other game

[quaint gale]

hmm...I could try spamming Athena boons to help fill out the wiki, but I never see her outside the guaranteed one...

[kind fiber]

@bold grotto If you want to increase your chance of getting the passive, fill out as much of your basic 4 slots so that when you see artemis again, you'll have a high chance of getting a good selection of her passive benefits

[thorny sun]

how do you make the sword work?

compared to the rest i feel like it has little going for it

[bold grotto]

That seems like a lot of work for that boon haha

but i'll give it a shot

[thorny zenith]

Yea, any sword players?

Spear here

[bold grotto]

the "crit after you dash" comes up like 70% of the time first try

[quaint steeple]

@thorny sun There is an upgrade for the sword that makes it swing uber fast

[kind fiber]

Yeah, it doesn't have much going for it. Some of the upgrades are pretty powerful but the starting damage is terrible

[thorny sun]

spear here

[quaint steeple]

Pair it with Zeus's attack

[thorny sun]

mmm

[bold grotto]

Honestly I think they should just remove the "crit after dash" boon. It breaks the game when you get 100% crit rate first boon you get most games

[thorny sun]

the zeus attack boons in general seem great

[quaint steeple]

The damage is quite high, nothing as game breaking as Aphrodite

[thorny zenith]

Sen~or what build you like on spear?

[thorny sun]

why is aphro game breaking?

[lucid echo]

aphro is game breaking?

[thorny zenith]

I like the crit + quick spin build

crit after dash*

[bold grotto]

aphro is pretty much required at some point if you aren't just amazing at dodging things in asphodel

[thorny sun]

zeus attack + crit after dash + spin size or reach from deadalus hammer

[quaint steeple]

Get the Weaken = enemy takes more damage and watch everything get decimated.

[kind fiber]

@lucid echo She has a huge damage passive that allows her to obliterate targets with the weakened debuff

[thorny zenith]

I'd say athena deflection is game breaking

It really counters a majority of the game

[quaint steeple]

And if you pair it with other stuffs

I can deal 200+ damage per hit on spear at hydra

[thorny zenith]

and with some weapons like spear its silly you dont have to play mechanics

[thorny sun]

the reach on the spear is nutty

[quaint steeple]

And that's not even a super lucky run.

[thorny sun]

and it destroys projectiles

[thorny zenith]

yea @thorny sun yea but with athena u can reflect and its extra nutty

[kind fiber]

well i was getting 860 damage charged hits on the hydra with the spear

[lucid echo]

Also just tried the artemis cast build. Maegara died in like 10 shots

[thorny sun]

oh that could work on the hydra hmmm

[thorny zenith]

actually Ithink the hydras projectiles edont get deflected

[thorny sun]

damn

[thorny zenith]

or well it wasnt working for me

[thorny sun]

that makes sense

[quaint gale]

they don't, yeah

[quaint steeple]

I've done a 4 digit on Hydra thanks for Aphrodite

[thorny sun]

would trivialize the fight

[kind fiber]

@thorny zenith Yeah thats weird. I noted it when it happened to me as well

[lucid echo]

'twas hilarious. Garbo once the protecc blue thing arrives in asphodel

[quaint steeple]

thanks to*

[thorny zenith]

Is that intentional (yea it would trivialize the fight)?

[kind fiber]

@quaint steeple I almost did, but I got the bonus to armored targets passive from artemis instead of a general crit damage bonus

I have no idea

[quaint steeple]

Ah, that's good too.

It helps progressing when you get in some unlucky rooms.

[kind fiber]

Well, it wasn't for me. Came too late to make use out of it against even a single armored enemy

[quaint steeple]

Heh, when we have more stages after Asphodel, it'd be :p

[bold grotto]

it does seem like the aphrodite "enemies take bonus damage when weakened" scales weirdly

it's like it multiplies instead of being additive

[kind fiber]

I don't know if it scales accurately

[lucid echo]

feels way more than just 60% damage

bug?

[quaint steeple]

Yeah, it's multiplicative.

[bold grotto]

I think it's Actually 60%

and that's broken lol

[kind fiber]

@bold grotto I think it scales multiplicatively, but it seems to scale more than the numbers would suggest

[bold grotto]

yea idk they should double check the math there lol

[thorny sun]

how do you feel about armor?

[lucid echo]

what's armor?

[thorny sun]

the yellow health you need t o break before doing health damage

[quaint steeple]

It's annoying on some enemies, especially since they won't flinch.

[kind fiber]

Annoying but a necessary evil. The best builds deal so much damage armor is irrelevant and the average and bad builds suffer for it

[lucid echo]

it feels so demoralizing the first time facing them...like 'what? they're not dead?'

[thorny sun]

i feel like they should have flinch resistance but not immunity, if that makes sense

[bold grotto]

I like the fact that they can't just be stunned forever aspect

cause that woulda made the game too easy I think

[quaint steeple]

Well, stun and flinch are 2 different concepts.

It's annoying that you get Poseidon's "stun for 5 seconds when bashed against the wall" thingy

But it doesn't even work when you perform it well on those armored enemies.

And it's a pain trying to do it in Asphodel.

[thorny sun]

which is when it would be actually useful

[bold grotto]

alright I'm on a new hype train. The "deflect when dashing" boon is busted lol

can just dash all day nothing hurts you lol

[kind fiber]

Yeah, the upgrade should probably be changed to "knocking armored enemies against a wall stuns them for x seconds" rather than being entirely useless as enemies that aren't armored wouldn't last long enough to fight back anyways

[lucid echo]

I dunno I actually hate it. Messes up the spear dash spin combo

[kind fiber]

Maybe it will matter more later on, but it doesn't yet

[quaint steeple]

I don't like the deflect dash too. It's too slow for my taste.

[lucid echo]

but if it was fast, nothing would get deflected

[kind fiber]

It has invulnerability frames, so thats nice

but the slowness makes it less aggressive

[quaint steeple]

Oh and someone was asking about sword builds, I had one that let me finish hydra with relative ease.
World Splitter = 400% more damage but Zag can only do that downward slash all the time
Pair it with Aphrodite's Damage when weaken and normal Attack + weaken damage boon

[bold grotto]

I havent tried it out in asphodel you may take too much damage idk

[quaint steeple]

You'll reach insane damages with that.

Since it's multiplicative.

[thorny sun]

the downslash upgrade seemed really useful yeah

big damage

[lucid echo]

like bastion's machete

[tall gulch]

It's not multiplicative

[kind fiber]

Alot of stuff in the game is multiplicative

[quaint steeple]

It's not? I'll have to check the math then, but it does boast good damage.

[tall gulch]

By that I mean all damage bonuses are based on the weapons base damage

[quaint steeple]

Yeah but it is:
Base * (x% + y% + z%) //Which is additive
or
Base * x% * y% * z% //Which is multiplicative

[tall gulch]

It's additive

Aside from crit

(IIRC)

[quaint steeple]

Hmm, I'll give it a try when I get back with Aphrodite's boons. The damage done seems way too high for it to be additive.

Dealing 180 per hit when I had a 140% and 108% doesn't seem right.

[tall gulch]

I haven't played the most recent patch, so it might have changed

Or they just might have some boons be multiplicative

[kind fiber]

I don't think the latest patch changed anything along those lines

[tall gulch]

Which would be weird and inconsistent

[charred dawn]

how does deflect work exactly?

jsut attack when i woudlve taken damage and it hits the foe?

[kind fiber]

@charred dawn Hitting a projectile will deflect it and send it back at its source. I think hitting an enemy as they are attacking deflects the attac

k

[quaint steeple]

@charred dawn Just attack before an attack reaches you.

Use those flashes the enemy have as an indicator on when to deflect.

Well, not all of them flashes.. but you should be able to get a feel for it.

[thorny sun]

i hate bomb skeletons

[quaint steeple]

The one that drops 3 bombs on death?

[thorny sun]

both of them, really

but the ones that drop bombs on death have taken so much of my HP

[quaint steeple]

Get any deflect boon and watch them crumble

[kind fiber]

Dodging behind them is a good way to avoid their attack

[thorny sun]

how? can't seem to hit bombs out of the air

[kind fiber]

The hit box seems to be more ahead of them than it is behind

You can

[quaint steeple]

You can hit the bombs out of the air

[kind fiber]

you can totally hit bombs out of the air

[fast raptor]

Run with a deflect set up

[thorny sun]

ill try that out with the shield

[fast raptor]

And its hilarious

[kind fiber]

I think you just need to time it for when they are coming down or something

[quaint steeple]

And it reflects back to them, deals about 100+ damage on those bomb dudes.

The problem with deflect is, it's kinda useless on Hydra. Those homing purple projectiles can't be deflected.

Neither can that attack where it smashes it's head on the ground be deflected.

But deflect lets one steamroll all the way till Hydra, so there's that at least

[bold grotto]

well first time ever using the "deflect when dashing" boon and I beat the hydra

pretty much just spamming that through the game

did have the aphrodite attack bonus though

to make hydra doable

it can't be deflected, but it does just mean you take no damage @quaint steeple

[dreamy jackal]

Does quick temper buff shot after dash by the bow? Or bull charge from the shield? And dash spin attack from the Spear?

[thorny sun]

yes

[oblique karma]

can you knock back the hydras bone shots

or are they indestructable

[kind fiber]

You can neither deflect them nor destroy them

[oblique karma]

dangit

probably why i just lost my last run

whats the easiest way to avoid it?

[kind fiber]

I think deflect will still block them, just wont reflect them

Standing behind one of two walls is one option

standing directly on top of his head is another

[oblique karma]

i got surprisingly far with an ares' cast build

i also keep finding aphrodites wall scroll just when i have no money

:/

[kind fiber]

Yeah

I usually avoid going to the shop unless I have like 200 gold

Ideally you should be able to get two items at the shop instead of just one so you can take advantage of the benefit of the shop over other zones, I.E. getting multiple items

[quaint steeple]

I hope there is a mirror upgrade that allows for higher chance of legendary boons.

[oblique karma]

yeah usually i can, but i recently ran into her wall scroll when i had 460 gold

and i was like

[flint totem]

The ultimate goal of the game to get that poster

[hollow totem]

The aphro room decoration is 500

I had 460

[quaint steeple]

@oblique karma There are a couple of ways to avoid the shots:

• Going behind the 2 walls, not 100% though, I've had some unlucky shots managing to hit me just once or twice so far.
• Dodging through the whole barrage of shots. ie Before Hydra preps the barrage of shots, stand on it's left side. Then the barrage of shots show up, dash through them to the right side. None of the shots will hit you now.

[hollow totem]

I wanna die

[quaint steeple]

I much prefer the latter method. Allows me to hit hydra when I'm on some unlucky run with absolutely horrible boons and weapons.

[onyx badger]

lol

[hollow totem]

I've converted btw

I am now spear all the way

[limber copper]

i think the start gold upgrade maxes out at 150, so with the purse you can start with 350

[quaint steeple]

Yeah but that sweet 10% more on that weird.. resource for mirror.

[hollow totem]

I feel like the sword should've gotten spin attack tho

the spin attack is an iconic sword attack after all

[kind fiber]

Yeah.

[quaint steeple]

I personally hate the bow the most, but gotta do what I have to do. It's not cheap trying to get all the mirror upgrades.

[hollow totem]

Same whenever I get the bow

[kind fiber]

The lack of a charge attack on sword seems wrong with the downsides it currently has

[hollow totem]

Well that and its special is easly the worst

even in comparison to the bow

[kind fiber]

I dunno man

[hollow totem]

and the deadalus hammer upgrades are awful

[kind fiber]

Bows special seems pretty bad

For the sword?

[hollow totem]

Yeah

for the sword

[quaint steeple]

Sword special is imo worst than the bow's.

[kind fiber]

The sword has some of the best hammer upgrades, even if the base weapon sucks

[limber copper]

bow's special is better than sword though, just because it's ranged

[hollow totem]

World Splitter could be better if it didnt kill boons

I had a poseiden Wild set

[quaint steeple]

How does World Splitter kill boons?

[hollow totem]

I dont know if I agree with that ascended

it removed Poseiden knockback boons for

[quaint steeple]

It works hand in hand with the normal attack boons, no?

[hollow totem]

me

Reported it as a bug already

[quaint steeple]

That didn't happen to me. I got the world splitter, then a couple of rooms later Poseidon's knockback on attack

[hollow totem]

I had poseidens first

[quaint steeple]

Everytime I hit something, it flies out of my screen, hehe

[hollow totem]

Then got world splitter

[quaint steeple]

Hmm okay maybe that's why

[hollow totem]

weird interaction stuff

What sword hammer buffs do you even find good though

I find them all awful

sheild buffs might be a teensy bit worse but everything else about the sheild is better

so it works out

[kind fiber]

Lifesteal, faster swings, dash attack are the ones that come to mind

Base damage being better would help out those 3 alot

[hollow totem]

Lifesteal is meh faster swings gets rid of the Wall slam dps

And the dash

is solid af

[kind fiber]

I can keep pretty sustained with the lifesteal

Its more for a defensive build than an offensive one

Needs damage reduction

[hollow totem]

I keep sustained with every weapon usually

The bosses and armored foes

are the only foes that really chippin

[kind fiber]

Well it keeps sustained while taking blows instead of just sustained by killing the enemy before they can hit you

[hollow totem]

I guess?

I think its okayish

[kind fiber]

Well thats the way its good

[hollow totem]

I just havent found much use for it

[kind fiber]

It would be far better if the base damage wasn't terrible

[hollow totem]

true

I think the real issues is that even if the buffs are good or even okayish they just cant save the awful base damage

[kind fiber]

Sure

[hollow totem]

Idk Im just comparing everything to the spear

[kind fiber]

There might be one or two upgrades that provide good enough damage to be useful in some build tho

[hollow totem]

spear buffs 👌🏿

The armor one is good too

[kind fiber]

maybe

[hollow totem]

actually

[limpid ember]

Eh, I'm not much a fan of the spear buffs, but I don't like the special

[hollow totem]

300%+ vs armored foes

All the Spin attack buffs tho for spear

so amazing

[limpid ember]

And like 5/7 of the spear hammer boons are all special focused

[hollow totem]

😍

I cant remeber off the tops

[kind fiber]

one or two of the special focused upgrades are pretty good for the spear

[limpid ember]

They would be if I ever used the special

I find it more reliable to just attack enemies

[kind fiber]

one of them is a massive damage bonus vs armored

aint too shabby

[limpid ember]

useless against bosses, which is the only thing that really affects me

[hollow totem]

Man the ledgendary buffs

are so cool

I've gotten like 3

they actually make you feel like a god

[limpid ember]

Yeah, I've only gotten zeus once

[hollow totem]

Ooh whats that

[limpid ember]

but it won me the game

[hollow totem]

I've gotten artemis and poesieden

[onyx badger]

Is there a reason to spend 100 darkness on +Rare boons instead of +Epic boons?

[hollow totem]

Um epic is more expensive

so you can raise your chances to get an above average boon

[limpid ember]

I believe it was something like every electric attack spawns an extra 60 dmg lightning bolt

[hollow totem]

That's crazy

Artemis' ledgendary spawns homing arrows on attack

Its so crazy

[kind fiber]

@onyx badger You spend 50 on 1% for rare as opposed to 100 for a 1% on epic. You reap the benefits far more consistently by going for rares

[hollow totem]

your screen goes bullet helll

its amazing

[kind fiber]

@hollow totem do they benefit from your cast damage?

[hollow totem]

Nope they have a set damage

But it spawns one per hit

normal attack

So you can spawn like 500 of them so easily

and because cleave

[kind fiber]

okay, so what matters is the set damage

[hollow totem]

Yeah

Even when the set damage is low

it spits out 5 million of them

it truly is a ledgendary boon

[kind fiber]

Like how much damage?

10? 20? 40?

[hollow totem]

It does 15

But I got a power pom and crits

so it was consistently doing around 60ish per

[limpid ember]

The zeus one started at like 40 or 60, but didnt get buffed by your crits and such

but it bounced multiple times, and I had the +6 bounce boon too

So like 3-4 swings on a hydra head and 3-4 of them would die

[quaint steeple]

Zeus' legendary boon is pretty insane too.

It spawns a second bolt whenever you attack.

The difference is, the bolt is actually kinda different from the normal lightning bolt.

It's kinda slow, but has a base damage of 80.

It basically means a +80 damage to whatever attack you have.

Dump that on a sword swing faster hammer upgrade and watch everything get fried on screen.

[dire cedar]

finally killed hydra on a run i intended to jut farm darkness. Sprear, Aphrodite special, Aphrodite Level 4 do 100% bonus damage to weakened enemies, and daedalus' 100% crit on special. Was able to kill extra heads w/ just 1-2 special tosses and then chunk him out.

doing 420 on a backstab crit

[tall gulch]

So zeu's legendary boon is just an AOE of ares' boon?

[quaint steeple]

what is Ares'? I never had a chance at it.

[kind fiber]

What do you mean? His legendary?

As I understand his legendary is that his blade surges pull enemies into them

[quaint steeple]

Oh wow, that's insane.

How large is the pull range?

[kind fiber]

Dunno, haven't used it

[quaint steeple]

If it simply drags everything into it, I can imagine how sick the blade surge casts are going to be.

[kind fiber]

Apparently the pull is inescapible. Enemies can't jump out of them

[quaint steeple]

Well, not against bosses I suppose, but still

[kind fiber]

Well

Its useful against the hydra I imagine

Those are largely immobile

[quaint steeple]

Yeah but it's just going to pass through the hydra and then the charge is going to appear on the lava

which is going to be a pain to collect back

[kind fiber]

Well it doesn't travel far

[quaint steeple]

I don't know. Ares' charge was annoying for me in Asphodel levels.

[pearl willow]

just had a bunch of artemis cast boons/upgradesa and not seeing the appeal. it was alright for hydra but felt pretty bleh/bad until then. part of that was due to having bow and no AoE though. would much rather have had zeus cast.

[mystic cedar]

How do you get legendary boons is it just random luck or do i have to beat the hydra once etc?

[hollow totem]

Random luck

The best I can reccomend is having the keepsake for the god you want the ledgendary for

[kind fiber]

I think you need to sastitiy some build conditions to have a chance for the legendary to drop

[hollow totem]

You do

That as well

[kind fiber]

Like you need to have a certain amount of boons, certain boons, or whatever

but beyond that, its just luck

[hollow totem]

You need to have a decent amount of boons from the god you want the ledgendary from

best I can recc is forcing trials

Which requires 2 gods minimum and luck

[vagrant mirage]

what are the legendary boons?

[mystic cedar]

@hollow totem so does that mean i should skip boons from other gods so i can have as much of 1 type?

[gray shadow]

I don't think you'll be able to leave rooms if you skip a boon

[silk torrent]

Legendary boons are boons, but unique and much stronger

There is one per god I assume

Although I only found Zeus' legendary boons atm

[hollow totem]

No dont skip boons

You cant even leave rooms

pretty sure its impossible to skip boons

SDAKJHSAJKHDhjksADHJKSAKLJHDjh;kADHOJI:KSAHJDJHkSAJ:KLHEd

[lost rose]

uh

[hollow totem]

THE HYDRA was 2 health

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[lost rose]

oh. rip

[lucid echo]

I know artemis legend is you get her cast when you hit someone with your basic attack

[mystic cedar]

i mean as in pick a differant room if i had a choice

to skip a boon

[quick echo]

anyone else have a problem with the shield blocking properly?

[gray shadow]

It doesn't block by default anymore I don't think

you have to get Athena boons for that

[quick echo]

i was using it for the first fury fight and every time she dashed at me even though i was holding the block she'd damage me

[azure swan]

finally killed hydra

without aphro or arte even

yay

[hollow totem]

NICE

ops

caps lock

nice

[dreamy jackal]

They really need to do something about Hydra fight visibility

I died too many time because I can’t find myself on the screen...

[azure swan]

get ares retaliation boon for that 😄

[dreamy jackal]

What does it do?

[azure swan]

emits big red nova when you get hit

you won't lose yourself anymore

[ruby hollow]

Hello everyone! Finished the game yesterday and idk if anyone pointed this out but you can dash to trigger the spin attack immediatly with your spear. Not only does it basically turn it into a mobile and wider sword special but combined with the 100% damage on dodge in the mirror, Artemis' Hunter's Dash, Athena's Devine Strike and a few poms of power you can almost one shot any waves in Tartarus and deal with most minibosss easily

It seems a little too good to be intentional to me

[azure swan]

spear is kind of easy mode

bow seems insane too but a little clunky for my taste

[dreamy jackal]

Yeah, bow special is so op point blank

[ruby hollow]

Idk the delay after the special turns me off...

[azure swan]

^

[dreamy jackal]

Hey, I heard people using a build about Artemis shot. Can anyone tell me what that is?

[granite jackal]

True Shot Boon

[azure swan]

ah the 420 noscope build 😄

[granite jackal]

Yuppers 😛

[hollow totem]

The cast spam kit

I kinda wanna do that

[dreamy jackal]

It’s just joking missile, right?

[hollow totem]

sounds fun af

[granite jackal]

You can either increase your Amount of Casts Available when you meet Artemis again, or you can get Multi-Shot, which increases the amount of "bullets" per Homing Cast

Or both~!

[hollow totem]

Just died

[granite jackal]

And then you just Pom one of them over and over.

[hollow totem]

whats the best weapon for t he cast kit

lmfoa

[dreamy jackal]

I don’t think you can spasm casting

[hollow totem]

You can

[granite jackal]

Weapon frankly doesn't matter.

Cast doesn't benefit or take disadvantage from weapon in any way

[hollow totem]

artemis has a lot of cast buffs

including casts unattaching from the enemy

a lot earlier

[dreamy jackal]

Interesting, I’ll have to try it

[granite jackal]

Yeah, [Quick Reload]

[hollow totem]

Make sure you have the artemis keepsake

[granite jackal]

Enemies drop Cast Gems faster.

[dreamy jackal]

Does the keep sake work after the first boon encounter?

In term of giving you better boon, that is

[azure swan]

what does "X god's boons are stronger" means on a keepsake btw? cause i always unequip god's keepsake before asphodel and numbers don't change

[hollow totem]

yes

when you get to choose boons

the boons are stronger

generally

[dreamy jackal]

I think it’s higher chance for rare or epic boon

[hollow totem]

Tried cat run

forgot to fully invest in cast

Feels badman

[modest dew]

Ive almost given up on cast runs tbh

ended up having to slog through the hydra without multishot way too much

[unborn trellis]

you can only get 1 major boon for each of attack, special, cast, dash and vengeance, right?

[tall gulch]

Yup

[tough tulip]

I've actually seen two vengeance boons from different gods before

but never for anything else

[lost rose]

Yeah, vengeance can double up.

[unborn trellis]

could be a cool mod
to let them all stack

foe seeking, chain bouncing, aoe casts sound great

[thorny zenith]

I take a lot of dmg from the flurry of purple arrows on hydra

what should I do

in the end phase

trying to clear 6 extra heads and then I end up taking a lot of dmg from the flurry of purples

the pillars on that fight eventually break right?

[high tusk]

I usually get hit by one and then Zagreus can't evade any other, as if he was staggered

[flint totem]

Let me try to pull up a tip but someone shared some methods on dodging that move earlier irc

[high tusk]

I think you should clear one head very fast then try to make the "main head" hit you with its head so that it won't fire long distance shots ?

[thorny zenith]

ah yea that might be a smart strat

[high tusk]

(woops, sorry, i'll let the more experienced talk then :p )

[thorny zenith]

take 1 head out and go to the middle and back out

[flint totem]

[10:59 PM] rain: @oblique karma There are a couple of ways to avoid the shots:

• Going behind the 2 walls, not 100% though, I've had some unlucky shots managing to hit me just once or twice so far.
• Dodging through the whole barrage of shots. ie Before Hydra preps the barrage of shots, stand on it's left side. Then the barrage of shots show up, dash through them to the right side. None of the shots will hit you now.

[thorny zenith]

👀 I

I'll try this tmrw ^ thanks stray

[flint totem]

Oh crap sorry about the @ I was just copying the message from earlier

[high tusk]

Thank you for this advice. Sorry for Demon . Hope he'll understand 😄

[flint totem]

rain was the one who said it first I was just pulling it back up

[thorny zenith]

yea thanks for sharin g

[high tusk]

I just beat Hydra one time. Did not have enought time to play Hades lately (since friends wanted to play smash together, but that's off-topic >.< )

[ruby hollow]

I was wondering; I mean it's likely but do you think there will be more weapons and Olympian gods? If yes what or who do you wanna see?

[cursive pilot]

Ahahah I haven't quite gotten past Meg yet but the game has been fun, some builds I've come up with have been hyper fun too.

I also share the problem of my friends wanna play smash all the time. But I hope I can put more time into Hades soon.

I haven't tried all the boons and I'm attached to the spear/javelin

[high tusk]

Well.. there are two empty weapon slots in the armory. So it's somehow teased . As for olympian gods, there are plenty. I think we'll see more of SGG's imagination about them, but nothing official for now

[cursive pilot]

I just really wanna see Dionysus really

[high tusk]

We have a counter in the game for additional content, so if you're filling complete for now about the game, you know when you can pick it again to play 😉

[cursive pilot]

Oh yeah that's right

[ruby hollow]

Oh yeah with an intoxicate effect that can turn enemies against each other like in Transistor

Although that might be too strong in this game...

[cursive pilot]

I was thinking more of He get's you so drunk that your health can go into negatives without you realizing.

But that sounds even sillier.

[high tusk]

buff attack, but moves not straight 😄

[cursive pilot]

Or like a reverie effect where enemies become placid for some time. Or become numbed to the fact you are indeed attacking them.

[ruby hollow]

XD

[cursive pilot]

A buffed attack but a 20% chance of hitting yourself

[ruby hollow]

I wish we could see Eris as some drama queen who gossips about the gods. Shes not really Olympian as she's Nyx's daughter and was banned from Olympus but she was known to pop up univited anyway

Also Im suprised Thanatos isnt here? He could be Hades' employee of the month

[brazen citrus]

fought hydra for the first time with level five upgraded Aphrodite weak to more damage taken boon (I forget what’s its called, sweet surrender I think?) and passion dash with the spear, and somehow won, despite me just dashing about in a panic having no clue what was going on

[flint totem]

Sounds about right

[ruby hollow]

Havent we all

[flint totem]

That is how my spear run went as well

Except I think I had level 2 damage taken and level 3 dash

[proud storm]

Has someone completed a run with default bonuses yet

As in, refund your mirror investments, starter mirror buffs

[azure swan]

i just skipped all hydra phases using only aphrodite dash and her +% damage on weak targets 👌

this lady lmao

[quaint steeple]

@tall gulch Might be a bit late on replying for this.

So I just gave it a test run, the 2 boons I had were:

• Athena's adding deflect to normal attack, Epic 118%
• Ares' Increase attack and cast by 15%

These are indeed multiplicative. Non backstab damage from a spear's normal attack was 38.

15 * 2.18 (118%) * 1.15 (15%) = 37.6 (rounded up to 38 I suppose)

[tiny pollen]

Does Hades have a method of progressing between deaths? As in, you unlock more powerful starting gear, etc.?

[grand patrol]

yeah!

[tiny pollen]

Is it all new options/sidegrades, or is there definite progress as you play?

I have mixed feelings on roguelikes, but then again I didn't like visual novels and Pyre was great so

[grand patrol]

there's ways to make yourself stronger!

its all optional, though

I'm sure if you wanted you could just not get any of the upgrades and call it hard mode

[tiny pollen]

Well, I'm sold

[thorny sun]

i also expect that there will be optional difficulty modifiers

[open mural]

Passed the Hydra first time, though I got very lucky with the boons. Had Artemis cast with 4 (?) projectiles, each doing 199 damage and also 10% chance to crit with Aphrodite dash + extra weak damage. So at the beginning I took 2/3 of hydra hp down with just one burst of four casts on weak hydra

[thorny sun]

ala every supergiant game before this

[azure swan]

gotta try out cast builds, never touched them

@thorny sun i mean you can already choose between "boss" and "non-boss" rooms on some occasions. there are also treasure troves and stuff like skull earring

something more extreme would be welcome tho

[errant narwhal]

those are more like high risk high reward options

I guess the difficulty mods could be like... boons always have an additional negative effect but are stronger, enemies always have armor but always give more coins, etc

[open mural]

@azure swan yeah it was first time for me to try Artemis -cast and I discovered the extra projectile boon (which I don't think can spawn for you if you don't take the Artemis cast-boon before) and it was amazing

[azure swan]

i never even leveled up cast points in the mirror 😄

despite being 2000+ darkness

[open mural]

At first I did not either, but it is a good thing the refunds are free so you can explore different thing easily, and I decided to see what the cast was about

[errant narwhal]

yeah I am.... very grateful that you can just respec with no penalty

if there was one I probably would have just hoarded darkness because I’m very indecisive

[ornate forge]

what's the point of the shield weapon? It's a bad melee weapon, it's a bad ranged weapon, and you can't even block melee attacks

[open mural]

Melee has knockback and that can be built around Poseidon -boons. Shield-throw (Q) is pretty good as well, and amazing with correct boons. Charge is okay extra mobility thing I think. It is my most used weapon, eventhough I have now explored others more. If the Q would work as well in Asphodel as it works in Tartarus, I think I might rank it to be the best weapon in the game.

[errant narwhal]

this seems like a pretty unpopular opinion, the shield used to be super op before a nerf and I feel like it’s still pretty powerful

[open mural]

I agree

[errant narwhal]

it’s the best for playing casually from what I found because I can block stuff

but for actually getting through the game and fast, looks like spear is the way to go

[open mural]

I think because the Shield-throw does not need to be that well aimed than bow and spear, it is an effective weapon when you can not aim consistently (at the beginning I found it hard to hit the floating enemies consistently, because their hitbox is where their shadow is). Also it hits two targets even without boons

[azure swan]

shield is very good everywhere except hydra

pretty fun with poseidon perks too

[rustic field]

sweet surrender is pretty busted

skipped like a whole hydra phase cause i had a charm spear plus lightning dashes

[errant narwhal]

its bugged rn and does more damage than its supposed to i think

[azure swan]

aphro in general is busted yes

[spark plank]

once im done with all the mirror upgrades except the boon rarity upgrades should i start with the increased amount of rares or the increased amount of epics?

[azure swan]

i would recommend rares for more consistency
but i don't know if there's a cap on legendary chance, maybe at some point its better to reroll full legy instead (when you'll have loads of dorkness)

[spark plank]

ok, thanks

[daring apex]

so just came on an interesting interaction using shield. Picked up the poseidon tempest strike boon ( more damage and knockback to attack) which is a little redundant i know.. then I pick up haephastus' boon pulverising blow ( more damage but removes knockback on attack). This also removed the kockback portion of Poseiodon's boon, not just the base KB of shield.

[oblique karma]

That might be just negative synergy, but worth noting on the feedback page

[pastel jolt]

on the flipside taking them in the opposite order gives you massive damage with good knockback

[daring apex]

Hmm, so the boons work in a sort of stack where interactions are applied from the bottom up? good to know

[open mural]

I wonder if that works in the same way with explicit damage buff -boons and percentual damage buff -boons. Because then for example it would be better to get the explicit extra damage first and percentual after, if the percentual would now affect the already increased damage?

[silk torrent]

I expect the percentage to always be applied at last since the damage augment can be buffed through passion fruits and boons

It's not the same as definitive gameplay changing buff

[open mural]

Good point

[tight vector]

Wait, Hephaestus?

[proud storm]

probably meant daedalus

finally got to see aphrodite's legendary https://i.imgur.com/tMmDzNM.png

[echo wyvern]

what are you doing to get legendary boons oO ? Never saw one; is there any way to buff the drop rate ?

[proud storm]

they start dropping later in the game

especially near the end of asphodel

get a bunch of boons from one god and it may suggest you their legendary

[echo wyvern]

oh ok, I've reached asphodel's boss about 10 times and never saw one ! RNG Gods please help me :p thanks for the information

[proud storm]

i call this the "don't touch me" build https://i.imgur.com/sGnfgiQ.png

[subtle walrus]

That's a lot of damage

[vale flax]

I wondered why Aphrodite didn't have a charm effect somewhere, so that's the legendary huh

[dire crystal]

is there a way to like, disable the lockon temporarily? because it is so annoying to be unable to use my attack to deflect projectiles cuz it homes to an enemy nearby, or being unable to shoot the pot enemies with the bow because the travel time causes the lockon to always fire behind them

its useful most of the time for quick target acquisition but

hot diggity dog

[primal kayak]

In the options, there's a checkbox for it

[dire crystal]

but does that just turn it off completely

because i dont want it off i just want it toggleable

[primal kayak]

You could set up a macro to toggle the setting

But yeah, a mappable button would be cool

[dire crystal]

yeee

threw it in feedback

[indigo compass]

any of u guys feel the bows range is too short?

[azure swan]

naw

[indigo compass]

had many shots just hitting nothing right infront of enemies

real annoying:p

[azure swan]

add 2 m and you will still hit nothing cause you will stay 2 m further 😄

[indigo compass]

maybe idk:p

[proud storm]

older version of the game but this still exists and i dont know how and why https://gfycat.com/SharpBronzeFlatfish

[azure swan]

powerslide!

[proud storm]

nvm figured it out

[solar galleon]

The Chad stride incarnate

[strange monolith]

hi all, I've got a stupid question. how do you actually use casts efficiently and effectively? Maybe I just suck at the game (and I do, frankly), but I can barely see how and when I can actually use my right mouse button. I usually go for a thrower build with aegis, so I already have a ranged attack all the time, and so i have no need for casts. what am I doing wrong?

[proud storm]

get cast boons

[errant narwhal]

yeah, its not a big damage dealer without boons

[strange monolith]

sorry for sudden weird language

yeah, aside from boons

does cast have any kinds of piercing abilities or something?

[proud storm]

nope

base cast is awful

[strange monolith]

I barely used it, so never checked

[proud storm]

however it can become many things with boons

artemis' boon gives cast homing properties as well as increased damage

[dapper heart]

Yeah, cast boons are necessary to improve cast.

[proud storm]

poseidon's is a big explosion that pushes enemies away

ares' is essentially the beyblade cast

aphrodite's makes it a shotgun

kinda

[strange monolith]

hmm

ok, maybe I'll try to have a run with cast boons to see how it goes

thanks all)

[whole edge]

does the bow outrange brimstone lasers?

[bronze sorrel]

anyone else find that the sword and bow are kinda lackluster relative to shield and spear?

[proud storm]

bow needs specific boons

sword just plain sucks

[bronze sorrel]

kinda disapointing, I wish the weapons were all appealing for different builds :/

what boons do you want for bow?

rapid from daedelus hammer?

[proud storm]

i mean i dont use the bow often but stuff like the boon that gives you twice more shots on your special

[fast pawn]

I don't think sword sucks.

My personal list is Bow, Spear, Sword, Shield.

[opal solstice]

sword is ridiculously good with athenas buffs

[proud storm]

is that so

[fast pawn]

Bow dash attack is really really good. Artemis boons for that are awesome. And yeah Athena and Poseidon boons for sword I've had a ton of success with.

[opal solstice]

you can do some awesome stuff in the boss fight with athenas buff on the special

[fast pawn]

Also Athena boon on bow special is insane vs Meg and other casters.

[opal solstice]

bow is pretty strong overall, especially with upgrades to its perfect shot

[fast pawn]

But dash-power attack on bow is really ridiculous.

[trail orbit]

well, meg's projectiles deal 4 damage per shot

[fast pawn]

And point blank shot.

[trail orbit]

not a whole lot to deflect

[fast pawn]

Yeah but every bit counts and it let's you do damage while you're just dodging.

[trail orbit]

just get true shot

deals more

[opal solstice]

if you're not running a hp build, then it matters quite a bit

yeah but tanking damage with deflect in between sword combos is fun as hell

[trail orbit]

you can't optimise for fun :V

[fast pawn]

I should try Athena's sword special boon

[opal solstice]

• an epic buff to special damage makes it overpowered

[whole edge]

should be a sandbox mode to try different combinations of boons out

lol

[opal solstice]

yeah that'd be awesome

i'd enjoy some extra combos with specific timing on button presses

[strange monolith]

140% sure there will be) all other Supergiant games had that

[tiny pollen]

Man, Meg likes to kick my ass.

Anyone have a method of beating her that doesn't involve praying for Zeus's chain lightning?

[bronze sorrel]

with sword I've particularly had trouble killing theives without getting caught by a mine. maybe I just suck but not having a ranged attack is rough.

[proud storm]

@tiny pollen get the dash upgrades, try hitting her when she prepares to dash by dashing behind her (if you're close enough) and hitting her then catch up to her when she finishes her dash to attack her again

[tiny pollen]

It's not her so much as the endless enemies she'll spawn

Which makes running from her Touhou attack or the circles on the ground a nightmare

[frigid robin]

yea the amount of heavies that spawn in her last phase

Oof

[proud storm]

if you take a hit & run tactic it'll be fine

it's all about dashing

[frigid robin]

god I love the dashing so much

[tiny pollen]

Does dashing give you i-frames?

[frigid robin]

I don’t believe so

[proud storm]

not really but sometimes dashing at just the perfect moment kinda "freezes" the fight and you dodge attacks you probably wouldve been taken

idk how to describe it

but even so dashing is good enough as it is

[tiny pollen]

oh baby, an epic Lightning Cast

Another chance at Meg--

[indigo compass]

just got my 5th kill

man i am ahving no luck at all with boons:p

[ornate forge]

true shot + multi shot is insane. I'm shooting 3 casts and each one deals 113 damage and is homing

[indigo compass]

yeah if u get em

i got nothing last run with bow

makes for a tedious asphodel:p

[silk torrent]

Wow Aphrodite is truly overpowered

[grizzled tinsel]

yep

aphro dash

best ability in game

[silk torrent]

No

Just the insane damage she gives you is stupid

[grizzled tinsel]

on what upgrade

melee upgrade is ok but the perk is a bit wasteful

better to get charm from dash

[silk torrent]

Especially the boon that gives you bonus damage on cursed ennemies cause it actually multiplies instead of add

[proud storm]

sweet surrender

[grizzled tinsel]

yeah that's great

[silk torrent]

That's OP

I nearly killed the hydra before she can spawn the second wave of heads

[grizzled tinsel]

but usually it's best to just get dash and improved on charmed

[proud storm]

on my latest hydra run i think i had every single "when taking damage, deal damage" boon

combined with sweet surrender and aphrodite's legendary

[silk torrent]

Well these boons are really bad imo, cause they stun you when you receive damage

[grizzled tinsel]

that's pretty good

also those boons are ok

[silk torrent]

What is Aphrodite's legendary ?

[grizzled tinsel]

but honestly you really shouldn't be getting hit regardless

dmg on hit is a bit lackluster imo

[undone pond]

why are yall so lucky with boons i get two boons before Meg and only money or keys

[proud storm]

https://i.imgur.com/tMmDzNM.png

[grizzled tinsel]

lmao

thats insane

[silk torrent]

Wow xD Transistor's charm !

[grizzled tinsel]

with aphro dash, you can get 4-5 charm procs on one dash chain

[silk torrent]

So cool

[grizzled tinsel]

that seems insane

[silk torrent]

Doesn't help against bosses at least

[proud storm]

i didnt notice its effects against hydra but it felt nice just having it

[turbid needle]

does it charm the hydra?

[proud storm]

didnt seem like it

[grizzled tinsel]

apparently doesnt work v bosses

[silk torrent]

Ofc it shouldn't

[grizzled tinsel]

also, why doesnt knockback work vs bosses

[silk torrent]

Because they are bosses xD

[grizzled tinsel]

it makes Poseidon pretty garbage

[turbid needle]

ah then its not that useful
i prefer increased dmg against weak 😄

[grizzled tinsel]

is the problem

[silk torrent]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah increased damage against weak is overpowered

[grizzled tinsel]

oh whoops

[proud storm]

poseidon is good for anything that isnt a boss

[grizzled tinsel]

yeah but that's the problem

[silk torrent]

I took Poseidon's knockback on Bow special once, it was garbage

[grizzled tinsel]

and it does almost nothing to shields

it seems like bosses and elites are the two difficulty spikes because they can't just be stunlocked

and poseidon is lackluster vs both of them

[silk torrent]

Poseidon is bad x)

I only take richess from the sea or whatever it's called

The boon that buffs your rewards

[proud storm]

sunken treasures

[grizzled tinsel]

yeah i got an epic vsion of that

[proud storm]

ocean's bounty

[silk torrent]

Oh yeah you got it 😃

[grizzled tinsel]

got over 170 purple on one run

[silk torrent]

Sounds nice

[proud storm]

i got the epic version of vast riches from artemis and ended my run with 700 coins

[indigo compass]

i have had 300 on a run so far:p

[grizzled tinsel]

also, I feel like the dash upgrades don't really exist

or shouldn't

[silk torrent]

I already unlocked everything except the mirror bonus that raise the chance to get rares and epics

[proud storm]

why not

[grizzled tinsel]

its next to impossible to dodge megs

attacks with only one dash

[proud storm]

dash to the side

[grizzled tinsel]

some overlaps on dark circle

[worn fulcrum]

poseidon has given me my most successful run

[grizzled tinsel]

are literally impossible to get out of with one dash

[indigo compass]

she is easy to dodge:p

[grizzled tinsel]

not talking about the dash man

[proud storm]

o

[silk torrent]

Because you need to walk then dash, cause if you dash first you can't walk for a moment

[worn fulcrum]

and it was pretty early, too, before I had a lot of darkness upgrades - it was a Poseidon shield throw build

[silk torrent]

But yeah, pretty difficult anyway I guess

[indigo compass]

its alot about patience tbh

[silk torrent]

You killed Hydra with a Poseidon shield throw build ?

[indigo compass]

spamming dodge cn kill u

[grizzled tinsel]

it seems like the difficulty drops once you get first and second dash are insane

[worn fulcrum]

nope

[grizzled tinsel]

thats my problem

[worn fulcrum]

but I did get there

[silk torrent]

Oh ok

Then it's not that successful xD

[grizzled tinsel]

pretty much any build can make it to meg

[worn fulcrum]

despite having cthonic vitality 1, no rally, no death defied, etc.

[grizzled tinsel]

there just aren't enough enemies for it to matter

[silk torrent]

Oh yeah solid achievement then

[worn fulcrum]

yeah, you can make it to Meg with base weapons

[silk torrent]

But it won't be fun x)

[grizzled tinsel]

it's very time consuming

[worn fulcrum]

no

[grizzled tinsel]

was on a spear run where i got 3 nondamaging upgrades from hammer

and no boons for 6-7 rooms

it

is painful

[silk torrent]

This game is so cool

Didn't expect a SG release that sudden

[grizzled tinsel]

same, isn't their dev cycle 2 years?

[indigo compass]

yeah just had 2 runs with bad boons, asphodel is a nightmare without good boons

[silk torrent]

I don't know, I guess every project is different

[indigo compass]

well its not full launch yet so :p

[silk torrent]

I'm so hyped for everything

[trail orbit]

thing with meg, is that you can just run out of those circles

[silk torrent]

I'm doomed to instantly buy every game they release since Transistor

[hushed parrot]

Is the Chthonic Vitality attribute supposed to only have three ranks?

[trail orbit]

using a single dash makes it more likely for you to get hit

[grizzled tinsel]

3 between bastion and transistor, 2 between transistor and pyre, 1 between pyre and hades

[loud sparrow]

@hushed parrot think so yes, cant upgradfe it any further atm

[grizzled tinsel]

im ready for 0-downtime supergiant releases

[indigo compass]

yes niki but i hope they give way more someday:mp

[loud sparrow]

i guess once more content is out we can upgrade stuff from the mirror further and we might even get more traits!

so save up those keys 👀

[tiny pollen]

agh

my goodness, I hate the slap-happy ramen chappies

[silk torrent]

Anyway we can't throw keys away xD

[turbid needle]

i got 40 keys in my bank and i dont know what to do with them 😄

[indigo compass]

tbh the +3 hp is a bit too low for me allready , could have at least go to +5 lol

[trail orbit]

get the poseidon boon :V

increases the healing of it

[indigo compass]

rather have artemis or aphro boons:p

[trail orbit]

I dunno, epic versions give like 170% extra, and that works on centaur hearts too

[indigo compass]

thats nice

[trail orbit]

67.5 hp hearts is fun

[indigo compass]

never got that one i think:p

[trail orbit]

It's surprisingly worthwhile

[indigo compass]

havent seen a legendary either

55attempts in

[trail orbit]

I've seen two

artemis and aphrodite

they aren't that amazing tho

they're good, but compared to just upgrading your main damage dealer it's kinda meh

[silk torrent]

I've only seen Zeus Legendary

[coral pawn]

just git gud and never take dmg

obviously

[trail orbit]

well, taking no damage is hard with mr hydra

[coral pawn]

git gudder?

yea I agree tbh

[indigo compass]

you try no dmg ill gladly watch

[coral pawn]

dash upgrades that turn into shield are the worst for hydra

[trail orbit]

I shall become the guddest :V

ye

you cant deflect the shots for some reason

[coral pawn]

it totally kills the point of getting them

its not just that, its the cooldown you get after dash

you can't get behind cover

[indigo compass]

deflecting hydra would be op tbh

[trail orbit]

surges are just bad in general

[grizzled tinsel]

surges suck yeah

[coral pawn]

woops

[indigo compass]

with any decent dmg the heads go down in 2 hits

[coral pawn]

yea but good luck getting enough time to damage them lol, especially in 3rd phase

[trail orbit]

I suppose, but you need to plan ahead of time to get a good cast

[indigo compass]

easy with artemis csat:p

cast*

[trail orbit]

most weapons can't really get enough damage without a cast

[errant narwhal]

please watch your language

[indigo compass]

they die in a bout 2 sec

[errant narwhal]

messages with swears get automatically deleted

[indigo compass]

u can kinda go there before they spawn:p

since the head get shielded first

[trail orbit]

ya, first time hydra is a pain

when you don't understand how to dodge the machinegun or that you have to rush the heads

[indigo compass]

yeah true then suddenly the main head does its thing together with 4-5 fireballs on one spot:p

[trail orbit]

guess I'll just die :V

[indigo compass]

and u often dont see your character

[trail orbit]

it gets easier after a while tho

like with meg, I suppose

I quite like that about Hades, so far: bosses feel really hard in the beginning, but get quite easy once you, as they say, "git gud"

[indigo compass]

yeah

alot of the time patience is key:p

[trail orbit]

yep 😛

[grizzled tinsel]

also upgrades

is the issue

it's not as much skill as getting all of the semidisguised flat damage ups and flat health ups that upgrades hold

[indigo compass]

still u can mitigate alot of problems with just looking and reacting instead of goin in dashing blindly ofr instance:p

[trail orbit]

I suppose, since the hydra is really hard without good burst for the heads

definitely

[indigo compass]

its doable

[grizzled tinsel]

I have no idea if im actually getting better at the game or if im just getting a ton of upgrades

that's my problem.

[trail orbit]

in the beginning I thought you could dodge the machinegun with dashes alone

[indigo compass]

but yeah he needs to be toned down a bit imo during the 4 head phases at least

[trail orbit]

getting good upgrades is a kind of skill

[grizzled tinsel]

.-.

[trail orbit]

:v

[proud storm]

complete a run with no mirror upgrades

[indigo compass]

not really:p sometimes u get the wrong ones:p

[trail orbit]

seriously tho, knowing what upgrades you need is important

[grizzled tinsel]

i mean it's not unimportant

[trail orbit]

I don't think runs without mirror upgrades is really possible

[indigo compass]

i know i want weak + dmg to weak but if i dont get it, cant do anything about it

[grizzled tinsel]

my problem is that stuff like backstab x2 damage and riposte heal makes your sustainability and damage balloon

[trail orbit]

I mean, can you do mr. deathboat without 3 dashes?

[grizzled tinsel]

im not sure

[indigo compass]

hmm doesent work on ranged atk tho

[grizzled tinsel]

i just feel like the game isn

't really like most roguelikes or roguelites

[indigo compass]

tbh i dont ever see myself regaining hp from that mirror upgrade cause im madly dashing to other mobs constantly:p

[trail orbit]

damage retaliation, especially zeus' is good with the riposte heal

[grizzled tinsel]

even without that, with riposte and any charm

[trail orbit]

also hilarious with brimstones

[proud storm]

i always lose at least one death defiance charge against hydra

[grizzled tinsel]

you can tank through the entire first floor

[trail orbit]

not really

[indigo compass]

well i think that what supergiant try's to do be unique instead of just like all the others

[proud storm]

also avenging gain helps a lot

[grizzled tinsel]

that's really not ideal though.

a roguelike with this kind of strictly better linear progression makes it feel like a poorly disguised rpg with significantly less content

[trail orbit]

avenging gain and lots of hp from the poseidon boon is one way to deal with the hydra

[indigo compass]

for umaybe not to me:p

for ppl who usually dont like rogue like just for that reason

[grizzled tinsel]

The issue is that Supergiant is trying to appeal to the roguelite crowd.

[indigo compass]

i need some narration or something to keep me interested

[grizzled tinsel]

that's really not my issue with the game

narration is great

[proud storm]

i'm sure more story bits will happen in time

[trail orbit]

well, ya'll have cleared the hydra how many times now?

[proud storm]

6

[grizzled tinsel]

3

[pearl willow]

i think that's more a symptom of the game likely being less than half done in terms of what's available to us. that being said i like the fact that i have some level of progression intrinsic to my character.

[indigo compass]

5

[echo wyvern]

0 😄

[trail orbit]

I think the game is plenty fun, it's just that we need more content

[pearl willow]

26 😄

[trail orbit]

and 8 for me

[grizzled tinsel]

I mean this isn't an issue that will be solved by more content

[indigo compass]

i think for early acces they did a good job

theres enough value for the money i paid

[trail orbit]

I mean, we wouldn't clear the hydra these many times if we didin't enjoy the hecklin' out of it

[grizzled tinsel]

And now we're getting into the early access defense.

I don't dislike the game

[indigo compass]

just my opinion, i usually dont go for early acces

[trail orbit]

I agree tho, Dichro, having more of the old man's narration would be really nice

[grizzled tinsel]

but it reminds me of dead cells in that it's a great game with nice combat, with the caveat that it's almost impossible to really progress without grinding for darkness

[trail orbit]

It was what I liked the most about bastion

after the heartwrenching story, of course

[grizzled tinsel]

I got this game because of supergiant's name on it. They usually make pretty much everything they do work.

[indigo compass]

yup same

[grizzled tinsel]

I wouldn't exactly call myself an NBA Jam fan, but Pyre was great.

[indigo compass]

and in my case they did so far

[trail orbit]

well, I have dead cells too, and it didint' really pull me in like hades

[grizzled tinsel]

my issue is that this transition to roguelike isn't concrete enough

[indigo compass]

cause generally i hate repeating the same content

[trail orbit]

I believe you are in the wrong genre :V

[indigo compass]

i like it in this one:p

[worn fulcrum]

dead cells is great, but a run on a 0% run has very little chance of succeeding whereas a 100% run is very easy

[grizzled tinsel]

the issue is that

[indigo compass]

dead cells is ok too imo

[pearl willow]

to a point, sure, but once you have a bit of the damage upgrades and dash upgrades that's really the core kit and that doesn't take terribly long and it all goes hand in hand with learning the game.

[subtle walrus]

They'll probably provide shortcuts for the upcoming areas in the hub

[grizzled tinsel]

dead cells is the most reasonable parallel to this game.

[subtle walrus]

Like in Diablo

[indigo compass]

just this appeals more to me cause of the camera angle and mechanics

and art style ofc

[grizzled tinsel]

Virtually no other roguelites have this level of linear progression via upgrades: most just do sidegrades

[trail orbit]

I think the main difference with the progression system is that early hades is quite fun, while dead cells feels like a pain early on, although that's just my opinion

[worn fulcrum]

A bunch do, actually, but I agree it's not great

[proud storm]

as someone who beat dead cells i can confirm it was very painful early on

[worn fulcrum]

Rogue Legacy is like the defining roguelite that does this

[lucid echo]

Do y'all have problems with shield throw in asphodel?

[grizzled tinsel]

that's fair

rogue legacy is a bit

[lucid echo]

like it takes forever to get back to throw/attack again

[trail orbit]

what do ya mean, I like throwing my shield into the lava :V

[lucid echo]

Like it ricochets, goes into lava and I'm stuck unable to attacc

[grizzled tinsel]

spam basic attk and it comes back

[worn fulcrum]

yeah, shield throw is rough there - you can space it out right so it comes back, but you can't throw and forget like you can earlier without

[grizzled tinsel]

or at least that usually works where i lose the shield

[lucid echo]

Also gotta love the shield, more range than bow, more damage than sword

[trail orbit]

sword is really bad tho

and the bow has insane damage

[grizzled tinsel]

sword upgrades are fine

[lucid echo]

I beat hydra with sword before shield lmao

[grizzled tinsel]

armor breaker is great

[worn fulcrum]

sword has the lifesteal upgrade

[lucid echo]

that single chop 400% damage is great.

[worn fulcrum]

which is pretty significant

[lucid echo]

that plus aphro buff is nuts

[grizzled tinsel]

fast swing, lifesteal, armor breaker, and single chop are all nice

[trail orbit]

is the lifesteal any good? Never tried it myself

how much does it heal

[grizzled tinsel]

the issue with shield and spear is that they don't have big dmg upgrades for basic attks

10%

[worn fulcrum]

it's not great

[grizzled tinsel]

1-2 hp per thrust usually

[trail orbit]

eh

[worn fulcrum]

it would be amazing if it didn't take half your health

[grizzled tinsel]

yeah ive never found much use for it. I tend to die all at once because of the lack of dmg iframes

so the -50% max matters a lot, while ls isn't very good.

[trail orbit]

some build would be really fun if we could get multiple hammers

[grizzled tinsel]

crit dash + armor pierce

yeet

[trail orbit]

I mean, you can buy a second one from the shop, that's quite reandom

[grizzled tinsel]

just spam shops

[trail orbit]

more like point blank shot and double special projectiles

[grizzled tinsel]

that's also pretty swell

never used bow v much

[trail orbit]

say, somewhat unrelated, does wall slam damage scale with weapon damage?

Like, it does a fairly varying amount of damage, but I can't really find what the damage is based of

[white shell]

Pro strat: running from enemies during a monster rush (timed level) in Asphodel works really well

[proud storm]

poseidon's knockback boon with the spear's special is very dangerous

sometimes it pushes the enemy, but if the spear lands behind said enemy and you decide to retrieve it it just pulls the enemy to you

like a harpoon

here's me being messy against the hydra https://gfycat.com/RemarkableFreeAdamsstaghornedbeetle

[trail orbit]

phew, close one

[proud storm]

yeah lmao

[trail orbit]

you really should try to get to 100 hp tho

so skull earring is always on, even after death defiance

[proud storm]

OH YEAH there wasnt a single hp heart in the run

[turbid needle]

i had a very similar run and couldnt even beat him with 200 hp and 3 revives lol

[trail orbit]

unlucky then :V

[turbid needle]

even tho my crits were garunteed and doing 800 damage

rip

i just cant dodge his silly projectiles

[trail orbit]

well, I have a piece of sage advice for you, Led