That's a smart way to do it
#h1-builds-and-combat
hushed ledge
The problem with the spear is that it's not the best in the second area
obsidian brook
Shield will do it, but I had a bonus that made it 100% more powerful per bounce, knocked Meg out with a 9.6K hit on accident
stone oyster
lol! that's actually kinda great
obsidian brook
Reminds me I need to submit feedback
if you talk to shop exit and reneter it changes the prices and values of items
tropic magnet
this game is hard T_T
copper berry
Is that only for the things like the darkness?
Because I think for most others it is relatively static.
Like the thread always costs 70, the speed potion 10, eye of lamia 15, etc
vital sky
anyone got tips for hydra? I can't handle the multiple heads
vague hearth
Hercules boon
stone oyster
gotter #4
obsidian brook
Yeah Darkness and HP, so you can toggle in and out for higher/lower values
copper berry
Do enough DMG, to be able to kill the heads, and focus the heads behind the walls
you want the walls to be your safe areas,
also if you break a pot by the walls, they each have a heal in them
obsidian brook
Roy give praise to the one true god Aphrodite
copper berry
Artemis*
vital sky
I've been trying to hug the walls, but i keep getting flushed out by lava patches
obsidian brook
Artemis is pretty cool too
copper berry
TBH with the lava patches, I got no idea
you just have to be able to run around while they spray lava, and when big hydra throws down his super missiles
you need to be able to hide behind the walls
thats why I say focus the heads behind the walls first
vital sky
also when the main head does the slam, the shockwave travels through the wall
obsidian brook
I'd guess the shockwave is AoE, the walls wont help you. I'D GUESS
copper berry
correct
I havent really noticed, but do you end up fighting the Skeleton Twins every run?
Or are you able to make it to Meg without doing so.
vital sky
either they throw the bombs or they slam the bombs
copper berry
correct
vital sky
but yeah always fight them
copper berry
Just checking if it was required.
vague hearth
I've only had them throw the bombs once
obsidian brook
Skeleton Twins? Inferno Bombers and Slam Dancers??
obsidian brook
I don't have it in my notes but I'm fairly sure you can avoid those rooms
copper berry
but the ones you face in tartarus are known as skeleton twins
Thats what I thought as well kavo
copper berry
Ah yeah the blood gates, that makes sense.
I thought you could also have a path with branches
obsidian brook
I seem to recall a run where I had both variants, throwers and slamers, I kept picking the elite rooms but I might be tripping I was up late playing last night
copper berry
I don't think you can have two fights at them.
vital sky
shield is life
stone oyster
DAMMIT... meg didn't spawn back at the house after i beat her that time
obsidian brook
Spear, the stagger is amazing, shield is ez mode and falls apart in Act 2 a little
copper berry
Out of my 35 ish runs, I have used it on probably 30
obsidian brook
When you stab it stops enemies(unarmored) so you dont even have to move if you dont want to
native gull
and I havent given the bow a real good try to be honest
stone oyster
ok the bow is a ton of fun... but slow
native gull
Oh okay. I guess i just have bad aim with the spear lol. keep taking too much damage from numbskulls
obsidian brook
You can time the fat boys and skulls with a spear stab to stop them before hitting you
vital sky
shield breaks most encounters with extra deflect damage
native gull
I had a run with the 300% damage buff from hammer which removes knockback. then i got Poseidon's blessing on the main attack for more damage and returned the knockback. was a broken run
obsidian brook
Easy until Act 2
native gull
yeah the deflect is honestly what makes it so strong imo
vital sky
yeah shield is really not doing me favors in act 2
i might switch to another weapon to try and take down hydra
obsidian brook
It still works really well by pushing folks into the lava for quick kills
vital sky
no walls to bounce the shield back
stone oyster
easier in asphodel than the bow i can tell you that much
obsidian brook
but the lakc of range for brimstones hurts it alot
stone oyster
.. the legions of armored numb skulls are... oh boy
stone oyster
and the spear....
obsidian brook
Least favorite encounters are armor Brimstones, seriously irritating hahaha
stone oyster
only way i've been able to deal with them is perfect paryr sheild and let them kill themselves
obsidian brook
How often are y'all mashing dodge??
native gull
not much tbh
native gull
only if i have artimis crit buff
hushed ledge
A lot less with shield
native gull
yeah i suppose i only have been playing with shield so far
hushed ledge
Spear needs you to never stop dashing tbh
obsidian brook
So much jumping haaaaa
I want to give the sword another go but the special on it locks you down in animation for too long
copper berry
I mash dodge literally 100% of the time with the crit buff
vital sky
i can't find any redeeming qualities about the sword
copper berry
and without i still mash a lot so I can get the backstabs
vital sky
i feel like everything the sword does something else does it better
hushed ledge
I have 13 keys. Do I get the rare chance or save up for epic chance?
native gull
how much is epic again
hushed ledge
24
copper berry
I wouldnt tbh
Because each level of epic is 100 darkness
but for rare its only 50
so thast 12 keys you could use to unlock another thing, as well as costing double the points
The only thing I dont really care for is deep pockets.
But I think most everything else is worth it, although if you dont use your dash a lot you might skip quick temper
hushed ledge
I dash constantly, and main spear, so I've been putting a decent number of stones into quick temper
copper berry
do you have everything else unlocked besides the bonus to rare or epic boons?
hushed ledge
Not yet, should I grab that first? None of it looked super useful tbh
copper berry
like i said other than deep pockets I would unlock the other things before the boon bonus
Those are mostly a place to sink all your extra darkness when you finish with everything else
forest marsh
You can get to Meg without encounter the Skeleton Twins, just depends on the path choices you take. I've made it to Meg 2 out of the 3 times so far without encountering them
obsidian brook
I dont have the spare darkness for the boon boosts. I run Vitality, Reflex, Defiance, and Avenging Gain maxed. Extras go to deep pockets or damage boosters
I dont think theres a real rush to get those, and I kind of avoid key rooms anyway, just need 20 more for everything unlocked. I'm sitting at 27 runs
copper berry
So I can max out everything else besides boon bonuses and I have 2.6k darkness
if I dont put points in deep pockets, infernal soul, and i put only 2 points in avenging gain, i end up with 880 leftover
hushed ledge
The ares cast boon is really good
obsidian brook
Bladestorm!
stone oyster
probably the best... particularly vs meg
(note... i havn't gotten to the hydra at all )
copper berry
So basically if you want to take what I deem are the "good" perks from the mirror, it will take about 1800 darkness
you could cut off another 250 if you only have 2 dashes instead of 3
basically, no rush on the boon bonuses
obsidian brook
for 20% extra chance on rare boons
copper berry
I just go for the 8% on epics
since I just use bow, I dont need Cast
Deep pockets is meh
obsidian brook
Does the boon booster cap ? Or can you hit it up to 52% if you dump everything??
obsidian brook
Its a free boon at Charon's shop
copper berry
I was able to just go straight up to the max
That depends on if you actually see charon, AND he has a boon in there
and also I min max and avoid a lotta boons
so I dont really care too much about getting em at the shop
now POMEGRANATES
thats the good stuff in the shop
untold trellis
Whoever said you don't see more than 3 gods in a run seems to be correct. I swapped my trinket after meg to a god that I hadn't seen in that run yet and got no more boons
copper berry
oh @obsidian brook I was wrong. I just double checked and I can only get 50% rare and 25% e pic
Silent I said that but I am also unsure. Sometimes boons just dont really show up. I think it depends on how the dungeon for the run is "generated"
like imagine if you had a trial of the gods in the second floor, and you have already had 3 gods beforehand
would it change depending on the gods you have seen, would it give you a chance at a 4th? or would it just cut out the room
untold trellis
I didn't see any rooms that even offered gods in the 2nd act
untold trellis
Because my trinket was forcing a god that I couldn't get I think
copper berry
yeah thats the kinda thing where you need mad sample size
untold trellis
30 runs should be enough sample size I think
I'll keep swapping trinkets at meg and see
copper berry
btw for those interested. Looks like to get everything maxed out in the mirror, itll take 5,175 darkness
everything besides the boon bonuses takes 2,575 darkness
tall gulch
Asphodel can definitely give god boons
copper berry
We were just asking if it was possible to have more than 3 gods show up per run
tall gulch
Ah, yeah
I've had all of them show up
Maybe depending on how the RNG for the god boons work, your previous choices could restrict what gods you'll get later
Since gods won't give boons to the same thing(i.e only one will boon your special)
copper berry
But each god has many "extras" that they can give
even athena lets you have like, random bonus gold and stuff
zeus keeps on giving you more lightning bounces
tall gulch
Yeah, but you need to have chain lightning for that to show up
And he only gives chain lightning on special and normal attacks
tall gulch
The cast buff isn't actually chain lightning
tall gulch
Does it? I haven't seen it actually get the extra bounces
hazy portal
omg
copper berry
I actually have no idea how the bounces are calculated or what
copper berry
:p
spiral dock
copper berry
it seems kinda random at times, if it decides to bounce or not
Not sure what ares gives as his "i dunno whatever man" boon
obsidian brook
Off topic, how many Nyx dreams are currently in place?? I haven't cleared the Hydra yet.
copper berry
dreams? 
OH I see
I have had one
but no more I think
you are talking about the scenes prompted by Z going "Maybe I should go lie down" or something like that, right?
obsidian brook
Ah same. Did you notice a difference in how likely you are to get Rare or Epic boons if you feed Ambrosia to gods? It could be RNG but I feel like its more common after raising their relationship
Yeah the rest scene
copper berry
I think that is probably cognitive bias. If you think about it, the more opportunities you have to give ambrosia to the gods, the more experience you have in the game, and the more boon opportunities you have per run
and naturally more boons being seen means more chances to see a rare on e
obsidian brook
That makes sense
copper berry
Also I think the more boons you have that cover a certain "aspect" (cast, dash, special, etc) the more you see "rarer" boons
Like if those are covered you get to the more niche boons, where Athena gives you gold, and Artemis gives you those little tracer arrows
obsidian brook
Also off topic, you can equip Bone Hourglass after Meg, shop for buffs that hold for 5 rounds and swap it back out for another keepsake
copper berry
Because those are technically "Epic" and "Legendary" respectively, but they dont seem to have the usual scaling you would expect from the boons normally
Yeah thats great
By the way, do you know how the thread works with boons?
Does it give you a numerical increase, or just make it more likely to be rare/epic
Because that might also factor into how often you see rare/epic boons
forest marsh
I have a real hard time playing the bow... Not sure if it's just not my playstyle or what (not that I'm an exceptionally talented player)
obsidian brook
I'd guess it's like a single use version of the keepsake but I have no idea
copper berry
Actually nevermind. If it works the same way the Gifts do from the gods, it will just give you a numerical increase
Yeah thats what I was figuring kavo
pallid plover
Is it worth to use sword/spear? Shield/bow special attack has 700 dmg after few upgrades
copper berry
sword, probably not
spear people seem to like
I think you gotta just find the minmax build for the spear
even if you minmax the sword though the animations just feel so clunky that im not sure if it is really viable
pallid plover
i wish to have "no tactical pause" build from transistor, aoe damage with vampiric
obsidian brook
Spear is variety type and stable, its very easy to mess it up though. Uncle P's knockback for regular attack kind of ruins it though so you its requires slightly more careful selection
forest marsh
Oh man, the knockback on Poseidon's boon with the spear is weeeird
obsidian brook
Spear with Daedalus range increase, weaken and increased damage from Aphrodite, and the extra that does bonus damage to weakened foes shreds
copper berry
And in my brain case, I would imagine that the spear with bonus special damage/weakness from aphrodite, and the bonus damage to weak enemies would shred along with the backstab bonus from mirror
pallid plover
probably but you need huge upgrades for this
obsidian brook
I find the best advatage of the spear is spamming attack and locking nonarmored enemies down, the knockback fudges the whole thing unless you can get them on a wall
copper berry
like you throw your special, weakens enemy, and you pull it back
and it just ZOOPS em
pallid plover
Aphrodite buff is a must have
copper berry
if you could guarantee a special critical hit then I think the special would be great on spear
something like the dash crit for regular attacks
obsidian brook
You can get some fairly effective boosts to the special like %500 damage boost to armored enemies, helps take out some enemies
pallid plover
Aegis's Q with increasing damage is so satisfying
obsidian brook
Apply weaken could be used too if you didnt opt for that as your main attack bonus
uneven shuttle
Aphrodite buff on anything is extremely strong. Last bow run I got her standard attack buff up to +202% damage (Lv.5 Epic)
copper berry
My current goal is to get the highest single damage number I can
uneven shuttle
Combined with the other crazy buffs on the bow, and that's a big oof
copper berry
I have gotten to something like 1030
obsidian brook
I had 9602 from a single hit
obsidian brook
Shield throw +100% per bounce, 1 hit Meg
copper berry
how many times did it bounce
obsidian brook
It was gone for a while lol!!
copper berry
From what I tried to do in the room with Skelly, I could only get like 3-4 bounces before it came back for me like a rocket
That seems like something thatd be amazing to do in a TAS, so you could dodge the shield ocming back with your dash frame perfectly
obsidian brook
I dodge very often, that shield was having a hard time finding me and with the long corridor I dont even know
atomic swallow
hot spear tip, if you charge up and then dash your charge attack will go off at the END of the dash
copper berry
Ah yeah I didnt consider the size of her room
uneven shuttle
Yeah, that's basically a requirement for using the spear.
copper berry
Well with the bow at least I have gotten that 1030 number, which was on the hydra
obsidian brook
I sued the spear for like 20 runs and just found this out from another poster 30 minutes ago QQ
copper berry
I am sure I could get way luckier with the boons as well
atomic swallow
i hadn't known until this run and honestly thought the spear was total garbage
uneven shuttle
@copper berry You should be able to get higher on armored enemies if you get the boons that increase armor damage drastically
copper berry
Yeah I don't remember if I had that boon, and since I did it on the hydra anyway it wouldnt have triggered
Actually that reminds me I did have a similar 1k+ dmg number with the sniper perk from daedalus
obsidian brook
Orpheus keepsake would bump it up if you're not already using it
copper berry
nah i use skull necklace
since of course 2x > 1.2x :p
plus I end up playing the bow as a melee weapon a lot of the time anyway
obsidian brook
OH ! MEg's earring
copper berry
since daedalus loves giving me either the triple shot or the point blank dmg buff
hazy portal
fam
obsidian brook
yeah smarter
hazy portal
17 health
uneven shuttle
I think I might try a meme shield-throwing build. It always seemed lackluster to me, but if there's a method to the madness of consecutive bounces...
copper berry
artemis 
hazy portal
avoid it right?
obsidian brook
POS?
hazy portal
go the easier option?
copper berry
poseidon
hazy portal
poseidon
obsidian brook
Oh water uncle right
copper berry
you are saying its the trial of the gods?
obsidian brook
pos came up different in my head...
copper berry
where you get to take both if you ebat the room?
hazy portal
I dunno if I can survive with 17 health
copper berry
same at first kavo
copper berry
What weapon do you have?
obsidian brook
After Aphrodite I like Artemis very much
hazy portal
shield
copper berry
The greatest rewards come only with great risk
copper berry
Also you could get the perk that gives you an instant health drop
hazy portal
aight I'm going in
copper berry
HECK YEAH
obsidian brook
How many runs deep are you??
obsidian brook
Get you a scrying pool for your room
hazy portal
I've been playin a fair bit since midday
copper berry
good luck 
hazy portal
I'm still thoroughly noob tho
copper berry
Do you really buy the scrying pool? I just randomly got it at some point, I didnt realize it was a furniture piece
obsidian brook
It's not timed, take it safe
copper berry
Yeah even if you dont get the health from poseidon, you at least get knockback, most likely
and if you dont take him first then the neemy get the ability to surge at you, which can be real surprising
shut hare
friendos this game is too much fun
i think my fiancee is jealous, and i can't tell if it's of the game or of me
obsidian brook
As far as I recall I bought the pool, Achilles painting, Aphrodite's painting and some bronze weapons(or something)
obsidian brook
Which one is fury?
hazy portal
slam damage +124
copper berry
Surge is pretty meh IMO
obsidian brook
Surge is bad
obsidian brook
Anything that takes the jump out of dash is bad
copper berry
Good try though 
hazy portal
not really got rekt
obsidian brook
Ares, Athena and Poseidon are the wrost dodge boons
copper berry
it's the fact that you went in there in the first place
hazy portal
lmao
copper berry
Athena I have heard was real good tho?
Is hers a surge as well or just a slower dash
hazy portal
the pep talks are real
copper berry
The deflect seems like it could be real good
untold trellis
i like deflect blink
vague hearth
I think the surge should allow you to move immediately to make up for the downside
obsidian brook
Is it a blink??
untold trellis
yeah
shut hare
also someone was talking about a meme shield throw build and that madness carried me to meg for my first time
untold trellis
but its slow, but you have deflect shield beofre and after
so doesnt matter that its slow
shut hare
can confirm, it's a wonderful and wild ride; unless you get a massive, wide open room
vague hearth
That build is what let me beat meg
untold trellis
i tried the meme shield throw build and then only got ares revenger power
obsidian brook
@shut hare was it the bounce damage?
untold trellis
and no more boons
shut hare
i think it was bounce damage, zeus boosted the special/throw, and then aphro made my basic attack weaken
obsidian brook
I should have screenshot my 9602 damage hit
shut hare
keep nearby enemies weak and knocked back, then bounce damage like crazy into them
vague hearth
The only thing I got for the meme shield build was ares special curse and two poms
I think I might have had artemis cast too
copper berry
BTW do we know how "bonus crit damage" boon works? if you get 25% damage on your attack, or 25% damage on your crit, is it not the same bonus?
obsidian brook
RNGsus was against you pal, sorry
turbid needle
yo I just gave a gift to nyx and got the black shawl, what exactly is this?
copper berry
Because if you have 100 dmg, and you get 25 more, itll crit for 50 extra
untold trellis
test on the skelly
hazy portal
is it just me or is the shield better offensively than.. offensive weapons?
copper berry
I dunno but the bow is pretty dang good
wise spear
Shield is a cut above the rest in most cases
copper berry
I just get crit dash and dash around backstabbing fools
vague hearth
The BEST OFFENSE
hazy portal
here we go
vague hearth
IS ALSO THE BEST DEFENSE
hazy portal
lmao
obsidian brook
@turbid needle Cerberus gives you a +25 HP, Orpheus gives you "up to %120" range damage bonus, Skelly gives you a survive lethal blow with 1 HP one time, and Hypnos gives you bag that lets you keep up to 200 gold after a run
wise spear
Fact is the shield has good damage, innate ability to deflect and Bull Rush gives you high mobility while making you deflect and able to clear rooms.
obsidian brook
If you give ambrosia to gods you get a special trinket that makes then more likely to spawn and have higher chances for rare and epic boons
turbid needle
damn nice and ty for the info
obsidian brook
There are other ones, but you'll get them eventually
You can only equip one of the trinkets at a time as well
Would love to see an update when there are more trinkets to let you have two...
copper berry
Enemy cant hit you if they are dead
untold trellis
huh, i have the meme aoe spear. 200% size, knockback, crit on dash
obsidian brook
Spin to win baby!!
copper berry
OK well I spent like 10 hours today playing this game
turbid needle
i love all the weapons so far, cant wait for more
copper berry
and just now another hour talking about it, I should go to bed
Gnight friendos, I cant wait to come back tomorrow and talk about how the bow isnt a garbage weapon
turbid needle
binding of isaac is one of my favourite games OAT so a supergiant roguelike like this is just a dream come true really
copper berry
and the sword is
turbid needle
sword is based
275% special damage and extra range bois
reminds me of the AOE skill in transistor
obsidian brook
Does Quick Temper work for the spear spin??
untold trellis
backstab does though
hushed ledge
useful note: while lifedrinker is bugged and only gives 1 hp back, you can get procs by thrusting pots
actually
pallid plover
does game feels laggy when you deal more than 1k damage?
hushed ledge
sometimes its giving 2 back
tall gulch
Do you mean 1k damage in total or in 1 hit against 1 enemy?
hazy portal
seriously the shield is better than anything else lmao
hushed ledge
nice
untold trellis
Poseidon's shield attack buff for knockback is hilarious. sends enemies across the entire room
turbid needle
shield is gud but they're all fun
I love the dark soulsy 'beat the game different weapons on different runthroughs' vibe to them
tall gulch
I don't think bow is in a good enough place right now to really be fun
@pallid plover how are you getting 1k damage against a single enemy in 1 hit?
turbid needle
bow is fun imo, the special is great up close w/backstab and a few boons
tall gulch
The issue with bow for me is that it's possible to try and fire too quickly and just not shoot
It takes too long to wait for the true charge
And they have no way to deal with hordes of armor enemies
tall gulch
Or piercing
hazy portal
oooooo
pallid plover
bouncing aegis
hazy portal
penetration could work
pallid plover
game just crashed
hazy portal
ouch
tall gulch
Ah, yeah, bouncing aegis makes since with the extra damage per bounce
turbid needle
pene could be good as an upgrade, or maybe on a perfectly timed shot
pallid plover
sometimes enemies almost invisible near walls
turbid needle
maybe a jump back burst shot type of thing to get out of dodge and do damage
tall gulch
It think it should probably also have it's range restriction removed
hazy portal
^
tall gulch
He can throw a shielf hard enough to ricochet around the room a dozen times
But can only fire a bow about the same distance he can throw a spear
analog jewel
a bit late but the lack of an instant-fire option for the bow was a huge turnoff for me as well
I had the exact same issue
analog jewel
where I'd go "oh crap enemy right in front of me" and just tap X and nothing would happen
tall gulch
yup
turbid needle
yeah instant fire and no range limit would make it perfect imo
tall gulch
Even if it's next to no damage, the stagger is important
turbid needle
with piercing as a boon if it doesnt already exist
tall gulch
I think the only thing bow has to deal with hordes is firing double the amount of arrows on the special
Otherwise you're left just killing them 1 at a time
hollow urchin
Idk if I'm reading chat right but is consensus that shield is most powerful weapon?
pallid plover
yes
forest marsh
Shield seems most powerful to me
I've seen a few of the more experienced players say they really like the bow, but I haven't gotten the hang of it myself
analog jewel
same here
forest marsh
Spear is decent in my opinion, and sword is just meh
hollow urchin
I looked at other 3 and couldn't see why I'd pick them over shield ever
analog jewel
the combo of decent multi-hit ranged and powerful up-close melee with knockback is great
wintry moon
the spear's range is pretty cool
turbid needle
becauyse its fun to do different things
turbid needle
its like deliberately chosing a sub optimal weapon in dark souls and trying to beat the game with it
pallid plover
Bow/shield are tier 1
Spear
Sword
turbid needle
or some such
analog jewel
basically the consensus I'm seeing right now is "anything but sword"
wintry moon
sword and bow need tweaks imo
supple lake
That lava-boat fight is just madness
forest marsh
Bow really needs to fire with a single button press
analog jewel
the bow would be a lot better if you could get a weak instant shot just by tapping attack
turbid needle
sword is fine ive beaten most bosses with sword and easily survived challenges
forest marsh
Not firing when tapping the button is no bueno
analog jewel
rather than requiring a bit of charge
turbid needle
yeah i agree with no tap fire being hm
forest marsh
I guess that should go in #hades-feedback-closed if someone hasn't already done so... ๐ท
wintry moon
BTW can anyone hint if there's any interaction for giving ambrosia to dad?
hollow urchin
What's current thoughts on best boons, then?
hushed ledge
Bow needs to be more intuitive, rn you need to build it very specifically and you have to dash fire
I'd lower the ceiling and raise the floor
forest marsh
@wintry moon I've seen the prompt, but haven't tried it
hushed ledge
Spear is super fun if it's not busted please leave it as is
hazy portal
@wintry moon gives nada
forest marsh
I don't really have any strong opinions on boons, I've only played for a few hours and am not that far in
Oh, yeah, I knew that Hades doesn't give a keepsake because it doesn't show as a gift heart on his profile
analog jewel
btw without going into spoiler territory, what are the locked hearts in the codex?
pallid plover
any interaction for giving ambrosia to dad?
yes
forest marsh
Not sure myself, everlasting. Maybe story related? ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
pallid plover
not sure about rewards
analog jewel
is that a "this will be available later in the game" lock, or a "the game's in early access and we haven't written this dialogue yet" lock?
forest marsh
Could be a "the scale only goes this high for this character and we didn't want to reduce the overall number of hearts" lock
turbid needle
and sort of serialise it a bit
analog jewel
@hushed ledge the one change I would make to the spear (and I already submitted feedback on this) is that the ability to poke through walls is a bit busted
hazy portal
I quite like that
hushed ledge
tbf it doesn't really come up
hazy portal
bastion did it too
turbid needle
yeah since other things cant I think the spear shouldnt either tbh
forest marsh
Yes!
hazy portal
still one of my favourite fames
turbid needle
i love how it draws from all their games
hazy portal
games*
forest marsh
That was a big part of why I picked up Hades, Duchess
hushed ledge
It's like the best of bastions combat system with the best of transistors
hazy portal
exactly
hazy portal
I wonder if they'll do any other protagonists
analog jewel
I like that they reused the power shot mechanic from Bastion
hushed ledge
Supergiant fighter with all the characters from supergiant games when
analog jewel
because that was a really elegant mechanic
hazy portal
lmao
analog jewel
Supergiant Smash Bros
wintry moon
gimme big blue unwieldy talking sword
hushed ledge
Ever wondered if rukey or Sybil would win in a fight? Well you can find out in SUPERGIANT GIANT'S, coming never
wintry moon
Oh man I love Sybil
hushed ledge
Night
wintry moon
ta
analog jewel
I should got to bed soon, it's 3 am
turbid needle
a supergiant fighter would be so sick lol
hushed ledge
Ikr
analog jewel
the commentator would be the old man from Bastion
hushed ledge
Nah it's the dude from pyre
analog jewel
I think it would be both of them
hushed ledge
I need to be able to play as the old man and use the calamity cannon
analog jewel
like how they do the dual commentators on sports matches
nah, the weapons shouldn't have to be from the same game as the characters using them
Red with a calamity cannon let's go
pearl willow
beat that bastard second boss finally. shield + aphrodite attack + artemis crit buff is so good. even more so with the weakened enemy vulnerability and/or +armor damage.
hushed ledge
Grats
spiral dock
Just got my first Legendary boon roll.
hushed ledge
Nice
spiral dock
Aphrodite - Unhealthy Fixation.
hushed ledge
That seems dece
spiral dock
10% chance on Weak effect to charm an enemy for 5 seconds.
tall gulch
Oh nice
Poseidan has a nice legendary boon too
Causes all of your knockback effects to double proc
IIRC
untold trellis
does anyone like the sword?
hushed ledge
It's playable with lifedrinker
untold trellis
that seems the only way but seems so cheesy
hushed ledge
Otherwise it's just a bad spear
tall gulch
Pretty much
hushed ledge
It needs to like parry on the first swing in the combo
tall gulch
Yeah, before I realised you could do that I didn't like spear that much since it didn't have any knockback
toxic sinew
Is shield just straight up the best weapon?
tall gulch
Pretty much yeah
analog jewel
oh my god I just found out that if the spear lands on a spike trap it triggers it
that's so cool
spiral dock
bow has the ability to out damage it, but is harder to use.
Shield is easiest to be best with.
turbid needle
yeah
toxic sinew
I feel like bow can compete only because you can kinda kite enemies with it
tall gulch
Bow has the best single target DPS
turbid needle
mobility is strong as is deflect
hushed ledge
Bow is unintuitive, you need to dash shoot and do a bunch of dumb stuff to get it to work
turbid needle
and it gives you a lot of both
tall gulch
So it's the best for boss fighting, but it's terrible at dealing with multiple armored enemies
turbid needle
not sure its "dumb stuff" haha just a little higher skill ceiling
hushed ledge
Spear is all the mobility tbh, because you never get stopped while fighting
Nah it's dumb stuff tbi
spiral dock
Spear is apparently good (didn't have good luck with it, but others have), but I don't like it (on top of not being able to figure out combos and stuff).
turbid needle
thats not very open minded
toxic sinew
So is shield too strong, or are the other weapons not strong enough? I feel like it's the latter personally
hushed ledge
Bow is only buildable as a one shot stupid damage weapon
tall gulch
Other weapons aren't strong enough
untold trellis
unlimited deflect seems a bit too good
hushed ledge
I think it's a bit of both
tall gulch
And deflect is a little too good right now
turbid needle
shield could be a little less good and the bow could be a little better
hushed ledge
Shield definitely needs a nerf on the safety
tall gulch
Because shield can just sit in charge and deflect everything indefinitely
spiral dock
I think shield's InfiniBlock is in need of a nerf, but all the other weapons need a little more to make them shine.
Sword needs a major rework to be worth using outside of unlocking other weapons.
It's easily the worst.
toxic sinew
I think sword definitely either needs deflect on its special or massive recovery buffs
turbid needle
backstabs should also be a little less easy to hit imo
hushed ledge
Bow needs a nerf on the ceiling and a buff on the floor
turbid needle
the shield can proc them from the front sometimes with is swing arc
tall gulch
Backstabs are super wonky right now
tall gulch
Spear and Shield can proc them from the front pretty consistently
spiral dock
Haven;t had that happen, but I've gotten some goofy bouncing stabs, so you, maybe.
hushed ledge
Add block then
turbid needle
keep it to the upgrades only
hushed ledge
Which is deflect without the thorns damage
spiral dock
Having deflect too available kills the challenge factor.
tall gulch
Yeah
turbid needle
yeah it does a little
toxic sinew
Maybe shield could just block on charge instead of bounce back damage, then let deflects be tighter-timed attacks or something
spiral dock
It's supposed to be difficult enough to piss you off but still possible to beat.
tall gulch
Yeah, the charge should just block if anything
spiral dock
Make it too easy and all the fun disappears.
turbid needle
yeah i think shield should function as a block so you can preserve life
tall gulch
Granted, this is only the first 2 areas of a larger game
turbid needle
with dashing being harder to pull off but ultimately better if you're good
spiral dock
I'm 25 runs in and the farthest I've made it is 25/27.
hushed ledge
Shield block should expire after a bit
tall gulch
Yeah
hushed ledge
Say if it gets to max dash range it auto dashes
untold trellis
i keep losing to hydra >_<. Almost cheesed it down with shield range attack but it takes so long to come back
spiral dock
Needs both a timer and a damage blocked threshold, whichever procs first.
toxic sinew
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a very limited charge timer on shield bash. I only really use it for shield bash > dash attack burst combos
spiral dock
Make it a Daedalus upgrade.
turbid needle
you can never please everyone with difficultly ive found, some people can beat super challenging games in one go and others will never beat it and give up, never coming back
so its always a little dicey making a 'difficult' game
spiral dock
Yeah. True.
turbid needle
some harcore players will be unsatisfied if its not actually that hard and others will be unable to get through it, but its worth pursing imo
spiral dock
I'm excited to see more character art.
turbid needle
again binding of isaac strikes a good balance imo
as a somewhat similar game
at least on an overall level
and same
spiral dock
Artemis, Sisyphus, Music Man (forgot his name)
turbid needle
did you see that art jen zee did for that metal band album cover? so sick
spiral dock
Nope, sure didn't. I know I'll be looking that up though.
turbid needle
if I made music i'd do all i could to pay her to do art for me haha
the pyre t-shirt design that looks like a black metal band shirt is also great haha
also i'd like to see the bow get something like the "leaping shot" from dragon age inquisition, where you sort of leap backwards and shoot down a cone of arrows in front of where you start the jump, maybe as opposed to what the special is now
but thats just a thought
vague hearth
Kind of like when curs cast their aura in pyre?
tall gulch
yeah
vague hearth
Oh wait
I can read now
So like Xayah's ult from League of Legends
As much I hate to remember that game exists
turbid needle
lol, never played it actually, but its just sort of like a aoe-ish attack combined with mobility that can get you out of the fray
vague hearth
Do you play diablo 3?
I can think of a skill comparable to that
The demon hunter's vault, with runes, can double as both a disengagement tool and a damage dealing ability
A kiting tool
That's the word
atomic swallow
is it intentional that with are's dash override spear isn't allowed to move with their charge attack?
vague hearth
I assume it's because it changes from a blink to a surge, which I guess must count as actually moving, instead of suddenly being in a different place
heady zephyr
i'm not even sure the dash into special/charge attack is intended
considering one of the sword upgrades adds that feature, which implies it's not intentional to me
vague hearth
Really?
pastel jolt
noooooooo protectively hugs my ability to dash spin
vague hearth
I think it's the only way I find situations to use the circle slash
pastel jolt
what keepsakes do yโall use? iโm still using cerberusโs old collar because i find it so hard to pass up an extra 25 health
vague hearth
And it's not an unfair mechanic either
pastel jolt
iโm just too skittish to swap and lose the health
atomic swallow
i'm using the coinpurse cause i still gotta get the last? poster
heady zephyr
used to use cerberus, now i usually start with ares or aphro keepsake
wise spear
I personally like using the God's keepsake to direct what boons I get. More health just means I could afford more mistakes, but doesn't give me options to avoid taking damage nor dish out more damage
pastel jolt
coinpurse? who do you get that from?
heady zephyr
charon iirc
vague hearth
Hypnos
heady zephyr
oh right, hypnos, my bad
pastel jolt
i havenโt given him a gift yet bc i donโt like him
heady zephyr
lol
vague hearth
Once I get poseidon or Zeus' keepsake I might start using those
pastel jolt
quit snarking at me when i die, boyo >:o
heady zephyr
achilles gives you a shield that reduces damage from the front but increases it from behind, sisyphus gives you one that enhances rubble damage substantially
vague hearth
I find his sardonic uselessness pretty funny
pastel jolt
ohhhh thatโs what sissyโs does
vague hearth
I want to try sisyphus' one sometime
heady zephyr
i wanna see if dusa and meg give anything
vague hearth
It'd be fun with poseidon's mighty yeet disk
heady zephyr
\hades doesn't give a reward btw so that's a waste of a nectar
vague hearth
They do
vague hearth
Dusa gives you a yugioh card
wise spear
You can check the Codex if someone has a gift by the gift Icon on the upper right hearts
heady zephyr
all of them that do have gifts are currently unlocked at 1 gift but i feel like the requirements will be increased further down the line
pastel jolt
by the way did anyone else see that if you give cerberus a gift the codex makes it look like youโve given him like four
vague hearth
Probably
heady zephyr
devs probably just want as much feedback as possible atm
vague hearth
This just makes it easier to test
heady zephyr
yeah
vague hearth
Which is smart
wise spear
They might just introduce more keepsakes at higher heart levels
vague hearth
That'd be even better
pastel jolt
gently showers achilles and dusa in All The Gifts ๐ญ
vague hearth
I wanna do that as a build actually
Poseidon's mighty dinner plate of yeeting ft. Wall slam mechanics and broken architecture
heady zephyr
with a nova bomb or spin attack build i could see it being busted
vague hearth
Oooh true
heady zephyr
even the shield possibly since the shield's neutral attack has a deceptively large hitbox and knockback
vague hearth
I'll probably just end up exclusively using shield bash because of how satisfying the smack is
heady zephyr
yeah
vague hearth
Also I planned on doing the shield from the beginning
The shield was the dinner plate all along
heady zephyr
the reason i dislike the sword i think is because it doesn't offer nearly as much flexibility as the others
like the bow, spear and shield all have good kiting/ranged attacks and decent-good close range attacks
vague hearth
Absolutely
heady zephyr
i think i said this earlier, but they should replace the thrust combo with a fast, spammable combo for the sword and make the special a stinger with strong knockback
vague hearth
Perhaps if it gave you the ability to use casting to greater effect to offset its inability to fight at range and made the special a bit more useable outside of the few builds that turn it into a tactical nuke
untold trellis
Finally beat Hydra by cheesing it with a really weak ranged shield
I don't know how to melee Hydra without getting destoryed
hushed ledge
I feel like they should just reduce all the animation times on sword
vague hearth
Yeah
heady zephyr
if they keep nova bomb it definitely needs to be faster
the enhanced nova bomb can be the current speed for balance maybe
analog jewel
the sword special could be really viable if the animation weren't so long
that's actually how I feel about surge as well
its utility as a dodge (i.e. replacing dash) is severely curtailed by the half second or so that you spend unable to move or attack after you drop out of it
vague hearth
I think I know why Meg's such a pain
hushed ledge
Soo much HP?
pastel jolt
shaaaaare, she's murdered me like four times now
vague hearth
She feels like an enemy out of transistor but you don't have the ability to stop time and plan your attacks
hushed ledge
She definitely needs less hp imo
heady zephyr
@vague hearth that's a great way to put it yeah
hushed ledge
It feels like her fight is longer than the hydra
vague hearth
It's like fighting Cybil without stopping time
hushed ledge
Nah, cause speedrunners do that and it isn't too long. I honestly thing she just has like 2x as much HP as she should have
wise spear
I think Meg herself is fine as she telegraphs her attacks and theres a fair amount to react. But I would redice the number of add she summons in .
ANd shave off some hp
But not halve
pastel jolt
maybe halving her hp is a bit much but it does feel like it needs reducing a bit
vague hearth
How about Cybil with the giant process worm's hp
hushed ledge
Idk, halve feels about right imo. That's exactly when it starts feeling like a grind
vague hearth
I think bring down her health and make her more open to close range attacks so people using the sword and spear will have openings to deal some damage
wise spear
She should always be a significant obstacle to your progress. I feel halving would take away from that
hushed ledge
The problem is that rn she's just artificial difficultly
wintry moon
Meg feels like a grind yeah
heady zephyr
the other thing with her, and a few other enemies, is that their telegraphs need to be longer but the time between attacks needs to be lower if that makes sense
wintry moon
maybe that's the hidden pun
vague hearth
While I agree with you, it should be achievable in any run
Like the Concierge in Dead Cells
wintry moon
Conc in dead cells is less annoying now tbh
heady zephyr
right, dead cells does great at making almost any combo viable since you will definitely hit on a synergy even by accident
wintry moon
but the softcap makes it unbearable
pastel jolt
has anyone else noticed that if you stand close enough to an enemy while using the spear, you get backstab damage even standing in front of them?
heady zephyr
i've noticed something similar with the shield sometimes
uneven shuttle
Is it consistent?
vague hearth
She should be the first obstacle but she shouldn't be a gatekeeper for how good your build is going
heady zephyr
i think the hitbox 'loops around' the enemy since it's that big possibly?
hushed ledge
yeah
uneven shuttle
Also, hold up, people find Meg a grind?
vague hearth
It should be your skill more than your build that beats the boss
hushed ledge
yeah meg's a grind with anything other than a busted bow build
vague hearth
Yeah
wintry moon
she takes a tad longer to kill than it seemed, but maybe I just have to do a little getting-used-to
uneven shuttle
Eh, Meg's fight usually takes at most 2 minutes for me.
vague hearth
As a first boss, it's a really big hurdle
uneven shuttle
and that's not with anything I'd consider broken
wise spear
I wouldn't say Slam Dancer twins are bosses
heady zephyr
the problem is some weapons are just straight up weaker than others both damage and utility wise
they're minibosses imo
wintry moon
mini bosses
vague hearth
Ah of course
wintry moon
yeah
uneven shuttle
Slam Dancers are definitely meant to be a miniboss
vague hearth
But yeah
hushed ledge
yeah, they're like the boat
wintry moon
chaos?
hushed ledge
they're a mini-boss
wise spear
I would say more like Elites that guard greater rewards
pastel jolt
slam dancers.... are they the two guys that throw bombs
wintry moon
yeah
vague hearth
Yeah
uneven shuttle
Yeah, you fight tons of them in the later areas
vague hearth
The splodey bois
uneven shuttle
But there's 2 in a room early on
pastel jolt
i literally just finished a room with them and i used up BOTH of my death defies
wintry moon
the pudgey guys are more annoying for me than slammers on subsequent tries
wise spear
My one gripe is that I cannot discern when they are impervious to attack
heady zephyr
yeah
hushed ledge
Yeah in later areas there's sometimes like 2 of them at once in a normal room
heady zephyr
that's pretty unclear
uneven shuttle
They're impervious while jumping
wise spear
Only 2 in later areas? Thats lucky
pastel jolt
i hate how much armor/health they have
hushed ledge
They're impervious while jumping
heady zephyr
i don't think it's good design to give enemies i frames in any case imo
wise spear
I had a survival room with 8 of them
hushed ledge
4 in elite rooms
vague hearth
I guess we can truly start giving feedback on Meg once the weapons start being a bit more evenly balanced
uneven shuttle
I think they're limited to 2 at a time, but there are smaller weaker versions alongside them
wise spear
I woudln't call them weaker.
heady zephyr
i've had over 2, but i think only in gauntlet rooms?
wise spear
They're more likely to be in higher numbers in survival and trials
Gurantee'd more like
uneven shuttle
I'm not sure if I can recall seeing more than 2. I feel like it's usually a horde of little ones with a couple big ones, but I never bothered to keep track of it
wintry moon
I won't be playing much of Hades after this, but I'll be lookin' forward to updates
heady zephyr
yeah with games like this it's usually play it for about 10 hours and then leave it until the next big update
that's how i played dead cells when it was in EA
well more like 15 tbh
hushed ledge
I'm probably going to 100% it and get a clear with every weapon before I stop
wise spear
The True Endgame
vague hearth
Yeah, I plan on playing until I've cleared twice then waiting for the update unless I get curious about interactions like the spear after being thrown on top of a spike trap
wintry moon
anyways thank hecc for infinite respecs
uneven shuttle
I tried getting it a number of times, eventually got a run where I had 500 gold by the 4th or 5th room.
And then didn't see a shop that was selling it until room 20+
uneven shuttle
At least I managed to get it. Now I see stores with a missing sales slot and it's weird
wintry moon
oof
hushed ledge
Night duck
uneven shuttle
You know, technically a no-boon run is impossible to guarantee ๐ค
golden sentinel
Hey guys anyone got any tips for the Meg fight
uneven shuttle
Since you'll probably end up having to pick up a boon to proceed at some point.
hushed ledge
I was memeing
pastel jolt
you don't have to dash to dodge her dash attack
uneven shuttle
Yeah, but now I'm wondering if it's ever possible.
pastel jolt
it's a good opening to get backstab damage in
uneven shuttle
Like, maybe...
hushed ledge
My tip is to clear the adds during the storm
wintry moon
shield makes Meg fight very tolerable
pastel jolt
you'll know she's about to do her bullet hell attack when she starts spinning in the air; run away at that point, because the bullet spread makes it a lot easier to dodge at range and it's a good time to pick off adds
uneven shuttle
My tip for meg is to wail on her until she either makes herself invincible or charges at you.
You will eventually win. Just dodge everything.
wintry moon
just watch out for when and whe you are not charging the block
wise spear
I would say the only weapon that puts you at a disadvantage vs Meg is the sword
But I think the sword is a disadvantage in most cases
pastel jolt
yeah nah i can't even reach meg using the sword,,
wise spear
I just end up using my Dash with Aprodite's or Zeus' boon on sword runs
hushed ledge
The sword puts you at a disadvantage always unless you get the right hammer upgrades
uneven shuttle
Sword with dash-attack should be doable
I don't recall what the other weapon upgrades are though
golden sentinel
Is clearing the adds even a good strategy? They just keep coming for me
hushed ledge
Clean the mages
uneven shuttle
Generally, no. Unless you're using an efficient crowd control weapon.
wise spear
Only if you can clear adds without much effort and in a timely manner imo
wintry moon
mages like to hit you from annoying places
wise spear
Such as Shield Special that increases damage on bounce
heady zephyr
the mages i find less bothersome than the hammer guys
since they'll end up being near meg when she's vulnerable
hushed ledge
The hammer dudes are easy if you're dragging meg around a bunch
Mages make you constantly have to dodge them
uneven shuttle
Shield bashing through a crowd of them when they're in your way should be fine
golden sentinel
My current strategy is spear + dash attack dmg up -> dodge + one hit, rinse repeat. The adds usually get in the way towards the end, I've had her down to >20% a few times.
wise spear
laughs in Athena
uneven shuttle
If you have a piercing weapon upgrade (spear, bow) they'r a non-issue
wintry moon
bullrushes has good iframes and deflect
wise spear
Bull Rush has all the iframes
hushed ledge
Spear has all the aoe, but it's a risky weapon
uneven shuttle
flashbacks to hyper light drifter's deflect dash upgrade
hushed ledge
Imo spear is perfectly balanced, maybe a trad overtuned
wise spear
I'd argue that Sword is the only weapon that has a risk
wintry moon
poseid makes it funny for spear
hushed ledge
Pose is a bad meme on spear imo
wintry moon
wall crits all the time
golden sentinel
The one time I had poseidon on spear I died in seconds to the bombers lol
uneven shuttle
Poseidon? Yeah, knockback is something you probably only want on the shield
hushed ledge
You lose the stunlock though
heady zephyr
yeah but you can already just stunlock enemies to death with the spear
hushed ledge
And that's a massive advantage of the spear
uneven shuttle
Or on a mage build
golden sentinel
Thanks for the tips guys
heady zephyr
like the major disadcvantage the sword has is you have to knock someone into a wall to be able to stunlock them
uneven shuttle
can you stagger the first 2 hits?
like, instead of 1-2-3, 1-2-3, can you do 1-2,1-2?
uneven shuttle
What weapon and boons did you have?
golden sentinel
Aw no, though feel my pain the last 4 times I've fought her ๐
heady zephyr
pretty sure the sword only reliably stuns on the thrust attack
but it's hard to get more than one combo on an enemy without knocking them into a wall anyways
pastel jolt
spear with extra attack damage and i don't remember what else
this is where it would be handy to have some way of viewing your previous run's setup
pastel jolt
that'd be a neat place to put it
wintry moon
yeah I like the irony of the Scrying pool
pastel jolt
i'm considering taking points out of backstab to get the heals up
pallid plover
is Meg hardest boss in this game?
ocean crane
Backstab isn't as good as it seems
Unlock the Quick Temper upgrade
At max rank it does 100% extra damage right after a dash
hushed ledge
Quick temper isn't great with shield, but it's great with spear/ sword, and meh with bow
uneven shuttle
It's absolutely required with bow, not meh
ocean crane
It's extremely good with the shield too
ocean crane
That combined with the upgrade that removes the knockback and ups damage by 300%
ocean crane
Easy clear with the shield just dashing and hitting everything close up
golden sentinel
I haven't seen one yet, but is there an upgrade for the basic attack to do extra damage to armor?
golden sentinel
Only seen it for special and cast
hushed ledge
Spear only gets it for throw iirc
heady zephyr
no permanent upgrade that does that if that's what you mean
golden sentinel
Nah I mean with the hammer artifact
hushed ledge
I think sword has a 75% bonus one? Idk
golden sentinel
Have been playing mostly spear, that's probably why
uneven shuttle
There's a boon that makes crit damage deal extra damage to armor.
Since Bow builds will always be crit-farming, more or less, it works extremely well
Also, what legendaries have people seen?
I've only come across Aphrodite's (10% chance of weakened creatures fighting for you for the duration)
hushed ledge
I've seen one, but it was right at the start so I don't remember what 
uneven shuttle
Legendary right at the start? Huh.
For me, it was near the end of a run
Maybe 2 or 3 rooms before Hydra
hushed ledge
It's RNG
uneven shuttle
Thing is, if you pick up several of the normal boons from a god, next time you get to choose you'll have some of their passive buff / more esoteric ones on display
So for me, I already had like, 3 of Aphrodite's boons
hushed ledge
I ran out of Aphrodite boons to pick from in my clear, so I had to take the on damage one lmao
There was 1 left iirc
uneven shuttle
And the Legendary one still didn't show?
blazing valley
What god should I aim for bow?
hot yoke
Aphrodite's got the best god upgrade I think for bow, the 3 shot
blazing valley
Shield is kinda OP now...
uneven shuttle
Aphrodite probably has highest straight damage numbers, though you can also go for kockback with poseidon, or deflection and still do fine. Other than that, dash-attack crits you get from the hunter god who I forget is very important, but you only need 1 rank in it
Bow is just as OP as shield, possibly moreso
hot yoke
Bow I've only had really take off when I got the no charge up but do a little less damage thing
At which point it becomes sort of insane.
uneven shuttle
For me, best bow build is triple shot + dash-attack crits + aphrodite damage boost + crit damage boosts
and on and on and on, they all stack
hot yoke
It seems better in general to go wide but keep hitting the same skill, if you can
Since the initial points are always, always worth more
uneven shuttle
Spreading your boons thin seems like a generally poor idea, since you're either going to focus on using normal attacks, your special, or magic; not all 3.
pastel jolt
i never go for cast boons tbh
uneven shuttle
Especially since you only get ONE weapon upgrade, either affecting attack or special.
hot yoke
Right, that's what I meant- I meant go heavily into special, for example, you can get 3 effects that buff it
uneven shuttle
Cast boons can be good. You can definitely win the game with a more-or-less pure caster.
well, clear the current content, I mean
hot yoke
And you're getting say +200% at rtange, +50% on special, etc, and that's more than going slightly higher level on either one
The ares cast boon is incredibly strong
uneven shuttle
Specializing is definitely super important. And yeah, ares caster boon is really good.
Ares other boons, not so good, usually
uneven shuttle
Ares and Zeus boons tend not to scale well, since they're flat damage increases and don't benefit from other boons
hot yoke
I figure there's something I'm just missing.
uneven shuttle
Except for specific ones relating to Ares and Zeus
hot yoke
Zeus does have the 2nd best dash buff? I mean, if you have nothing else to grab
uneven shuttle
Yeah, but you're not going to depend on your dash to deal damage. It's more of a 'better than nothing' scenario, I find.
Might be worth buffing on a caster, though
hot yoke
Probably not. Aphrodite's dash buff obliterates it
Problem is, almost all her stuf fis great
uneven shuttle
And I would put the critfarming dash and the deflection dash both above it
And the weaken one
So that puts it 4th in my book
uneven shuttle
You can just spam it while passing through hordes of enemies and it'll do wonders
hushed ledge
Athena dash is busted
hot yoke
It's not like you won't take damage when you need to get out of there and there's lot of things going on though
hushed ledge
imo zues and Aphrodite dash are on the same tier
hot yoke
Unless you have a lot more charges on your dash than I do, I can absolutely end up in a situation where I can't get out without getting hit pretty hard
uneven shuttle
critfarming dash is super important for Bows, can be very good with shield too
Athena dash is good for anything that isn't using the critfarming dash
Weaken dash is good if you don't think you'll get either of those and don't really care
The other 2 normal dashes are below these
hushed ledge
Athena dash is just good because it doesn't have a downside tbh
Pos/Ares dashes are bottom tier
uneven shuttle
Then the 2 slow ones that prevent you from passing over gaps are 'lolno' unless you're going for a very specific caster build
hot yoke
Aphrodite's dash doesn't have a downside
uneven shuttle
Aphrodite's doesn't have a downside, but it's not as insanely good as the critfarming dash, and it doesn't have the crazy utility of Athena's
Critfarming dash triples the bow's damage output
golden sentinel
Well I beat Meg