#off-topic-discussion | Supergiant Games | Page 160

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 3:50 PM

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Yknow, I wouldnt have imagined the bloody hat to be the hardest part to draw for this sprite

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 3:59 PM

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hats suck

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one time i drew vivian from paper mario

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her hat was the death of me

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 4:05 PM

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Hm

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I might be able to finish this sprite this week

buoyant frigate Aug 21, 2019, 4:12 PM

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Nice! Is it for any larger project?

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 4:16 PM

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Well, a game Ive been wanting to make for 3 or so years

buoyant frigate Aug 21, 2019, 4:17 PM

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That’s great!

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 4:17 PM

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Planning-wise its more or less finished, now Im getting to the actual "making a game" part

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Course Ill have to check if the artstyle I end up with isnt too close to Ghost Tricks artstyle, but beyond that

buoyant frigate Aug 21, 2019, 4:17 PM

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So you’ve finished a basic design doc n stuff like that?

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 4:17 PM

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In a way, yes

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Im a little disorganized so its more of a design "several sheets spread accross 5 different folders"

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But yeah, just need to make sure the artstyle is ok, copying artstyles is frowned upon it seems, and Im not sure I can tell when its distinct enough to not be considered copying artstyles

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 4:21 PM

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copy artstyles and blend them

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 4:22 PM

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I mean the basic thing I wanted to take from the Ghost Trick Artstyle was the simplicity

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I have not drawn much in the past, uh, 10 years

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So I lack practice for more complicated and detailed art

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Simple shapes and flat shading are much easier

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 4:33 PM

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getting another opinion would be a good idea then

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if you're not sure about how close it is

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 4:33 PM

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Yeah, thats why Ill probably ask here once Im done with the first sprite

faint panther Aug 21, 2019, 4:39 PM

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So I'm just now playing Hollow Knight. I've heard a looot about the ||White Palace|| being a terror of platforming and that was not that.

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 4:42 PM

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you sure you're not just that good 😛

mystic nymph Aug 21, 2019, 4:47 PM

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||white palace||ain’t that bad

narrow spire Aug 21, 2019, 4:47 PM

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Comparing to Hades Hollow Knight is EZ, since whole Hades is like Delicate Flower quest from HC.

mystic nymph Aug 21, 2019, 4:48 PM

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||path of pain|| though

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Speaking of HK I’ve been grinding out the radiant bosses and have kind of hit a wall

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I’m out of stuff that I really want to fight, and stuck with memes like Markoth

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 5:19 PM

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I read HK as hong kong

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and was super confused

narrow spire Aug 21, 2019, 5:27 PM

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shadesmile

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 5:31 PM

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Do I take the car for a 20 minute drive or the subway for an 40 minute trip

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 5:34 PM

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Depends, are the subways any good at your place?

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 5:34 PM

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define good

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its BART if that means anything to you

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so very squeaky

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but not hideously dirty

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and generally on time

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 5:39 PM

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It does not

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Main questions are is it dirty and are the seats comfortable

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If the answers are no and yes respectively, Id say subway

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Good for the environment and all

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Alright, this is a super-rough draft, but Id rather know now instead of when Ive spent a bunch more time on it

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https://imgur.com/a/a1BbTuW

Imgur

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Is this distinct enough to not be considered copying?

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The Ghost Trick artstyle, I mean

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 6:17 PM

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i think they're reasonably different, although that might change when you add colour

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choice of posing might also affect it

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 6:18 PM

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Well the shading would also be flat, but Im not sure Id use the same lighting

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Poses will mostly be different anyway, I always felt Ghost Trick had this weird tendency to give every character the same default pose

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Which is the arm thats closer to the screen on the hip

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 6:19 PM

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this pic is a bit of a stiff posture btw

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 6:19 PM

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Thats intentional

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 6:19 PM

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ah for the awkwardness factor?

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 6:19 PM

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Insecurity and on edge-ness, yeah

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 6:19 PM

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this looks like the main character if i remember what you said before

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 6:19 PM

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The point is that the main character at the start is generally uncomfortable

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Yup

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Thats jack

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Its still unfinished, but the idea is there

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Somewhere around halfway through the story I intend to change his sprites to ones where he is more relaxed and/or confident

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Default pose would change to hands in shirt pockets for instance

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 6:20 PM

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reckon a bit of a puff in the chest with a slight downward glance would make him look more on edge in that pose?

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kind of like he's retreating a bit

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 6:21 PM

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Hm

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I wanted to reserve the stronger poses for the non-default sprites

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One for example would him pulling the cap over his eyes

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With the whole head angled downward a bit

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 6:22 PM

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yeah the overlap might not be so good

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 6:22 PM

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Overlap?

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 6:24 PM

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just finished she-ra s3, good show

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whats worth watching now

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 6:24 PM

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Infinity Train

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 6:25 PM

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ok

somber ferry Aug 21, 2019, 6:28 PM

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oh she-ra s3 was incredible

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if you're looking for another netflix cartoon, i LOVED twelve forever

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 6:29 PM

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cool how infinity train says full episode available but then its not

somber ferry Aug 21, 2019, 6:29 PM

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probably need to log in with your cable login if you have cable

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 6:29 PM

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cable sux

somber ferry Aug 21, 2019, 6:29 PM

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on the topic of cartoon network cartoons, ok ko is amazing and also ending soon, so it's the perfect time to get caught up

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it's one of my favorite shows

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tbh i just use my family's cable haha

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my mom and her partner have been considering just getting a roku instead of cable though

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 6:30 PM

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dunno if I'd like 12 forever, i tend to like my coming of age stories to be abstractions

faint panther Aug 21, 2019, 6:31 PM

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My dad kept Cable for years, but between Roku and YouTube TV he finally got rid of it.

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 6:31 PM

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havent had cable in years

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maaybe i should watch eva, but i dont think i can get into something like that rn

faint panther Aug 21, 2019, 6:36 PM

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Never spent money on it myself.

stoic slate Aug 21, 2019, 8:05 PM

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watch EVA movies instead, much more coherent

wide ember Aug 21, 2019, 8:08 PM

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once when I was young we moved into an apartment where the previous tenant had cable installed and it was not uninstalled so we had free cable

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we thought it would run out at the end of the month but it continued for several months somehow

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 9:10 PM

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Man I wonder how much patience professional artists must have

wide ember Aug 21, 2019, 9:33 PM

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a lot

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I'm not professional yet but already I can draw 6 hours in one go

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professional artists can sit there for 12 hours

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 9:34 PM

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if the artists i know are any indication they all think their work is terrible and they'll work forever if it helps them improve

wide ember Aug 21, 2019, 9:34 PM

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sob

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my work is actually terrible though, it's not that I think it's terrible

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look imposter syndrom is not part of professional artists, those have just enough control over it to get enough confidence to send out their portfolio and get hired

tardy anchor Aug 21, 2019, 9:39 PM

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hfhjfhj please take breaks sol

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you can draw for 6 hours straight! but your poor hands

north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 9:39 PM

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https://youtu.be/fdD7CgN5FGg

YouTube

Road

Wrist Exercises for Tendinitis Carpal Tunnel Syndrome - Avoid RSI ...

See How I avoided Wrist Surgery by doing these 1 minute exercises just once or twice a day. Also, see links and ideas in this description on how you can help...

▶ Play video

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take care of yourself

tardy anchor Aug 21, 2019, 9:40 PM

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YES

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you know what were all gamers in here i think we need this pinned hgfcghdgh

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north hamlet Aug 21, 2019, 9:40 PM

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take this too while you're at it

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https://youtu.be/F8_ME4VwTiw

YouTube

Wall Street Journal

Ergonomics Expert Explains How to Set Up Your Desk | WSJ

Our desks weren't made for us. They were made for everyone. So ergonomics expert Jon Cinkay from the Hospital for Special Surgery is here to show you how to ...

▶ Play video

tardy anchor Aug 21, 2019, 9:40 PM

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:0!!

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hand excersizes are something my hands make me do at fingergunpoint the past few months hjfhjfhj

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 9:49 PM

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they must have very powerful fingerguns because of all those hand exercises

wide ember Aug 21, 2019, 9:49 PM

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so my monitor is just a little too high\

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(or rather, I'm short T_T)

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 9:57 PM

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Alright, I need a tiny bit of feedback

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https://imgur.com/a/nkHieyi

Imgur

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Do the proportions work now?

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Its a bit more sketchy this time around

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 9:58 PM

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ᵗʰᵉ ᵍʳᵉᵃᵗ ᵗʰᶦⁿᵍ ᵃᵇᵒᵘᵗ ᵇᵃᵍᵍʸ ᶜˡᵒᵗʰᵉˢ ᶦˢ ᵖʳᵒᵖᵒʳᵗᶦᵒⁿˢ ᶜᵃⁿ ᵐᵉˡᵗ ᵃʷᵃʸ ᵃ ᵇᶦᵗ

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ˡᵒᵒᵏˢ ˡᶦᵏᵉ ᵃ ⁿᵒʳᵐᵃˡ ᶠᵃᶜᵉ ˢʰᵃᵖᵉ

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 9:58 PM

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True its mostly the ratio head size to broadness

wide ember Aug 21, 2019, 9:59 PM

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to be fair if you aim for style, proportions can be thrown out of the window

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 9:59 PM

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Only to a degree it seems

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Originally the shoulders were considerably broader and it looked weird

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Still not sure about the right arm

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Ill have to tinker with that part

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But Im quite happy with the face

tardy anchor Aug 21, 2019, 10:00 PM

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AH yeah i see that gt style immediately
your shoulders are good i think, your main issue here is the armpits starting a little high?

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 10:00 PM

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Yeah I thought so too

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Ill fix it tomorrow I think

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Also the neck, does it seem too broad or fine now?

tardy anchor Aug 21, 2019, 10:01 PM

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i think its alright

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 10:01 PM

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Good

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Also good to hear that it does evoke the GT style

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 10:35 PM

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help

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I'm falling out of love with FFXIV

upbeat scroll Aug 21, 2019, 10:36 PM

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if ffxiv is so good how come they never made an ffxv

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 10:50 PM

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yghfdrgfdd

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i dont know how to tell u this..

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:10 PM

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I mean, its Final Fantasy

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You can definitely say FFXIV-II

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Fits the original meme better

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~~Also come back to GW2 Oce~~

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Weve got tree people and demon cats

wide ember Aug 21, 2019, 11:12 PM

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first world problem: hurting my back again trying to pick cherry tomatoes from my own backyard

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:13 PM

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we have tree people and demon cats too

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people who live in trees and

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keepers of the moon are pretty demon esque

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:13 PM

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No I mean Tree People

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As in plant people that come from trees

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 11:13 PM

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They got minfilia to put on a coat!

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:14 PM

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potato potato

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WAIT i meant to put the sounds in

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oh well

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:14 PM

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Tbh Im surprised the Sylvari arent the fashion meta in GW2

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They have bioluminescence

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They glow at night

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And its really pretty

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But no, its all about the human female meta

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Smh

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I assume in FFXIV's case, the fashion meta is the miqo'te?

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 11:18 PM

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or the viera

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I'm not sure I've seen another Roegirldyn

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:21 PM

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one of my fav youtubers plays a roe lady

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3gowSuV4AAGJnk.jpg

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:22 PM

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The only FFXIV youtuber I know is Drak

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:22 PM

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lucah isnt a ffxiv youtuber

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ffxiv is a side hobby of hers, she streams sometimes

ionic viper Aug 21, 2019, 11:23 PM

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viera aren't as popular for glamours from what i've seen

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bc they can't wear most hats

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:23 PM

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shenpai is the biggest youtuber i know? and larryzaur

ionic viper Aug 21, 2019, 11:23 PM

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most of the glamours i see shared are on miqo'te or au ra ladies

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:30 PM

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i found out how to download mods

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and i. cant stop myself

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p r e t t y catgirl hours

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 11:31 PM

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FFXIV mods?

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:31 PM

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yee

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 11:31 PM

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Are there any ones that can give me butch haircuts without cornrows?

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:32 PM

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errrm

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there are a lot of hair ones

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be careful when lookingtho

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90% of the mods are not safe for newp :/

serene tulip Aug 21, 2019, 11:32 PM

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FFXIV spoilers ||Arthas is the emperor now?||

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||God those pauldrons put WoW to shame||

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http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comics/1472455047-432.png

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||how do the garleans afford constant offensive war?||

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:51 PM

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/366647747949887500/613882751455592448/unknown.png

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excited noises

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i cant wait to finally finish it its been so long

hardy pawn Aug 21, 2019, 11:53 PM

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Is the first one avaliable on Steam too ?

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:53 PM

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errm im not sure

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i dont know if its available on pc

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the first one is.. muah so good

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yeaaah,, wrath of the white witch isnt on steam

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:54 PM

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The first one is not

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:54 PM

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???????

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seriously?

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:54 PM

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Not on steam

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:54 PM

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OH

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:54 PM

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Is what I meant

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Yeah context gets wack

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:55 PM

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i thought u were saying it wasnt good and i was about to fight you

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:55 PM

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Ive not played either

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:55 PM

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studio ghibli helped with the first one

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:55 PM

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As such, I have no comments other than "it looks pretty"

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Its too expensive for me to have bought it during my post-Crosscode JRPG binge

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And its not intriguing enough for me to buy it now

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:55 PM

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im a biiiig ghibli nerd

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so... the moment i heard abt it i bought it

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and the moment the second one came out i bought it

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but i never got to finish it : (

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:56 PM

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Ghibli are good yes

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Ive watched most of their movies

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Not the newest ones because I didnt get around to them

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:57 PM

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i def recommend when marnie was there

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:57 PM

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And I never finished grave of the fireflies

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Because hoo boy

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:57 PM

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y u p

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:58 PM

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Its like instant despair

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:58 PM

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[hajime hintata didnt like that]

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:58 PM

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||I swear the video Junko used to brainwash people was just Grave of the Fireflies||

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I got like halfway

copper lark Aug 21, 2019, 11:59 PM

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smh spoilers

hasty kernel Aug 21, 2019, 11:59 PM

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And then I said "yeah no, I cant handle this"

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Immediately watched hours of spongebob afterwards

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Just to make sure

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 12:28 AM

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anyone here watched tuca and bertie

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just finished it

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 12:47 AM

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Syd might hate me for this but I have "Anime" filtered out of my steam store 😛

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 12:49 AM

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you're valid

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 12:55 AM

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F

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thats valid

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 1:23 AM

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I can't believe that Gold Saucer Employee bunny uniform is truly equal

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regardless of gender all wear the same bunny ears, beige shirt, black ummm and fishnet stockings, all the same length and style

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 1:28 AM

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ofc

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the gold saucer is the best

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 1:52 AM

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Bleep bloop

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 2:15 AM

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in another round of "i was curious so i looked it up" it turns out that six flags amusement parks are named after the six flags of the six nations that have at some point ruled texas

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 2:17 AM

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US, mexico, spain, probably texas itself....

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mesoamerica?

buoyant frigate Aug 22, 2019, 2:18 AM

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“Great fun for any ruling class!”

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 2:18 AM

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France and the CSA

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I'm sad they didn't include any of the first nations 😛

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but unsurprised

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 2:19 AM

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i was gonna say "first nations didnt have any flags" but apparently france didnt either at the time

chilly briar Aug 22, 2019, 2:44 AM

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I can't wait for the ni no kuni 1 remaster / re-release ahhhh

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 2:56 AM

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me neither !!!

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i’ve missed ollie travesLove

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i’ve missed evan too but. i get to play nnk2 tomorrow so

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 3:02 AM

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female or male chocobo?

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 3:06 AM

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it doesn’t rlly matter choose ur own baby

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 3:09 AM

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girl power then

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 3:13 AM

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And you get the <Bug [gender]> Title!

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for doing your first chocobo races

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 3:20 AM

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bug gender....

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 4:37 AM

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well mine is <Bug Girl> Oce Shejn

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Since my character is nominally female

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I assume that not everyone gets bug girl tho

honest glade Aug 22, 2019, 9:17 AM

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I really hope I get to play Ni no Kuni 1 someday. I'm not a fan of the premise or characters of the sequel. Came off as a little dry for my tastes.

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I'm also curious to see the spin-off movie that's coming out... tomorrow, actually. (Which was not made by Ghibli, but the trailers seemed solid enough, imo.)

ionic viper Aug 22, 2019, 11:15 AM

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i don't often change my title in xiv, for like 50 levels i was V'rahna Karo <Seeker of Truth> and then.... things happened...... and i'm going to be V'rahna Karo <of the Silver Fuller> for a while cryingcat

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 11:33 AM

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i don’t change mine often either

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i did the same thing

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now i kinda switch between <Keeper of the Lilacs> and <Knower of Twin Worlds>

grave ingot Aug 22, 2019, 1:12 PM

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Any roguelike fans played RAD yet? I have a lot of feelings about it lmao

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 1:31 PM

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https://imgur.com/a/kvfUqKd

Imgur

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I think this is about as good as Ill be able to make it

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Which is probably not good enough

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 1:42 PM

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Looks pretty good, and not too much like ghost trick

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I think I'd prefer a less intense blue for the cap though

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 1:43 PM

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Mmh

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Maybe thats a good idea, actually

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

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The line work would probably be clearer then too

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 1:50 PM

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https://imgur.com/a/otFiCEh

Imgur

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How about this colour

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 1:52 PM

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Matches the other colours intensity better 👍

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 1:53 PM

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Tbh I didnt notice it from up close, but the colour was off in general

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Im basing the hat on a particular sailors cap Ive got somewhere

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So thanks, I missed that

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Still, the lines arent clean enough

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I just dont have steady enough hands I suppose

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 2:02 PM

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you could mess with the brush stabilization and make it higher

tardy anchor Aug 22, 2019, 2:02 PM

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whats your correction/stabilizer on?

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ah yeah hjfvhjf

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 2:02 PM

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Anything I draw with it lower than 21 looks..... not v good jdndjfnfnf

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 2:03 PM

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Uh, where do I find that setting in Firealpaca?

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 2:03 PM

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but you gotta find what works for you

tardy anchor Aug 22, 2019, 2:03 PM

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rn i have it on 3 because my tablets acting up and making me feel like im drawing thru jello but usually i keep it around 5

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 2:03 PM

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oh I don’t use it sorryyyy

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 2:04 PM

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if its the same as medibang

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on the top uh

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thingy

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there should be a dropdown box

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with numbers in

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 2:04 PM

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Correction, yes?

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 2:04 PM

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ye

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 2:04 PM

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I see

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 2:05 PM

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sais stabiliser is. whew

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 2:12 PM

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Wow this does make a huge difference

tardy anchor Aug 22, 2019, 2:18 PM

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YUP

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 2:22 PM

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Also strangely enough, only the hand Im doing ctrl+z on hurts

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Its a bit far apart on german qwertz keyboards

plain warren Aug 22, 2019, 2:25 PM

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Has anyone here played the card/board game Exceed?

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 2:29 PM

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Nay, what does it entail?

plain warren Aug 22, 2019, 2:37 PM

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I started to describe how to play and then realized it's easiest to say that the game is basically Street Fighter turned into a card game

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They actually got Street Fighter as a license for their last released season and I have always thought how incredible it would be to get a Supergiant season for the game.

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https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/224483/exceed-fighting-system/ratings?rated=1&comment=1

BoardGameGeek

EXCEED Fighting System

GAME SYSTEM

     This entry is to allow for discussion/rating of the game system as a whole. It is not for a specific product or release. Versions will appear on the individual item pages.

Bring the fast-paced action of head-to-head arcade fighting ga...

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I'm not a fighting game player at all, but a big board gamer and I've been loving the game for years now. I teach 7th/8th grade and taught a few students how to play. By the end of the year they had taught more students and were running 10 person tournaments weekly. It was great to watch

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(Disclaimer: I am in no way paid by the makers of Exceed, lol.)

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 2:41 PM

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Ooh that's pretty cool

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 2:42 PM

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the data center is down

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we just entered a dungeon and it shut down

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oh! everything is down

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🦀 ffxiv is dead 🦀

tropic garden Aug 22, 2019, 2:47 PM

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w
what are the crabs for

tardy anchor Aug 22, 2019, 2:48 PM

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crab party music

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https://youtu.be/LDU_Txk06tM

YouTube

Monstercat: Instinct

Noisestorm - Crab Rave [Monstercat Release]

Every year after the most intense tropical storms, thousands of crabs gather on this remote island. Now for the first time, witness all the side-stepping, ai...

▶ Play video

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 2:49 PM

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its a maymay

tropic garden Aug 22, 2019, 2:50 PM

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i mean i know the maymay i was wondering why we're crab raving when ffxiv died gkjdfghdf

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

a lot of crab raves have "x is dead" as the text

tropic garden Aug 22, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

I See

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 2:51 PM

#

not, the rapper

tropic garden Aug 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

it's a more complex maymay than i was aware of 😔

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 2:52 PM

#

x as a placeholder

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

Yeah if it were X the rapper, hed just be in jail

#

Alright I swear this is the last one for now

#

https://imgur.com/a/PGfyLoo

Imgur

#

This looks cleaner, right?

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 5:11 PM

#

it does a fair bit

#

the curvature of his upper back is starting to get a bit odd now though

#

@wide ember https://imgur.com/gallery/0JKwfOt

Imgur

Just a Cockatoo having a time of it’s life

▶ Play video

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 5:27 PM

#

Its supposed to show that he is standing at an angle

#

I might have to tinker with his left arm a bit though

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 5:28 PM

#

Thankfully proxy doesn't read tooltips 😄

#

Sometimes I kinda wish I were smol

#

The square cubed law does not work in my advantage enough IMO

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 5:28 PM

#

Maybe get rid of the dark grey part and shift the medium grey a bit to the left and fill it with dark grey

#

Should be a quick couple changes, Ill try it

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 5:29 PM

#

even accounting for standing at an angle, the ribcage is usually broad enough that there wouldn't be much of a gap between the arm and chest above the elbow from a 3/4 angle

#

also the spine curves back out around the armpit

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

I had it without a gap originally, but

#

It felt a bit off

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 5:35 PM

#

if i remember how humans are shaped (and to be fair i'm not that good at art so i might not) it should kinda be like this? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/396338096708255745/614150593983807508/IMG20190823033453.jpg

#

although you are doing a stiffer pose so it shouldn't be exactly that

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

Gotta go, keyboard lessons

#

Ill think about this later

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 5:38 PM

#

seeya

#

i should be going to bed actually

#

have some sleepy kitties https://imgur.com/gallery/K37wmxt

Imgur

Settling in for the night.

▶ Play video

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

Dear gravity: H*ck you. Signed this folk who just block pulled 315 lbs https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/516763813790482464/614148574002806844/20190822_084534.jpg

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 6:11 PM

#

You're supposed to be asleep invis.dragon!

north hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 6:13 PM

#

shhhhhh

#

how can i sleep when all these announcements happen 😛

copper lark Aug 22, 2019, 6:15 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/328306777609207808/614160664885460994/unknown.png

#

oh god oh no

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 6:32 PM

#

it took me a while to realize that the parrot was supposed to play with the wheel like that and I was worried the first two seconds

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

#

I guess Invis.dragon is offline now?

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

if you still need art tips the rest of us can do too

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 6:41 PM

#

Right, I just didnt finish answering them, but thats gotta wait then

#

Let me just finish this real quick

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 6:42 PM

#

Art Tips: Put your pencil in the spindle of a cnc mill

#

I am bad at art

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 6:42 PM

#

all my chinese teachers insisted that a real artist shaved their pencils with a knife

#

the white teachers did not care as long as the pencil's sharpened

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 6:44 PM

#

https://vimeo.com/60718161

Vimeo

Pricefilms

HOW TO SHARPEN PENCILS

Official Selection: 2013 Austin Film Festival 2013 SF Docfest 2013 Sidewalk Film Festival (Winner: Best Documentary Short) 2013 Indie Memphis Film Festival (Winner:…

▶ Play video

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 6:45 PM

#

ok apparently this one does

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 6:46 PM

#

(its a joke video in case you aren't watching it)

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 6:46 PM

#

I just started it

#

say, the best pencils are the german staedtler pencils right?

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 6:48 PM

#

I feel like there are folks that will fight you about that subject

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 6:48 PM

#

that was the brand my parrot loved eating the most, it smelled good too

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 6:49 PM

#

Saedtler are most popular for drafting folks

#

at the very least

#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nlBZdDZcks

wide ember Aug 22, 2019, 6:52 PM

#

what is that unnecessary pencil sharpening (referring to the 2nd video)

#

just use the knife

#

I finally finished the first video

#

now I feel called out for destroying all my old drawings (I used them as parrot cage lining)

serene tulip Aug 22, 2019, 6:55 PM

#

You should do what I did

#

and put them on deviant art so that you can remember they're still probably there

#

and just as terrible

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:02 PM

#

https://imgur.com/a/zq9voas

Imgur

#

Alright, so invis.dragon pointed out that that gap between the left arm and the torso wouldnt actually be seen as such at this angle

#

Which is true, but the thing is, without that gap with my limited artistic skill, it would look like he is pressing his arm to his body

empty cradle Aug 22, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

I’m only on epic for the free games, but when I saw hades I HAD to buy it. Epic charged me 5 bucks in tax for anything I bought from them. I was upset to say the least. @summer hamlet

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

Which evokes more of a military cadet vibe than uneasy detective vibe

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

Oh dear that's unfortunate

#

Throwing in an obligatory "be civil" for anyone joining the EGS discussion cause EGS discussion is notorious for not being that.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

What do you think @wide ember

#

Also I made his left arm a bit smaller because it was getting bulky

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:05 PM

#

But yeah mainly I have the same issues as you usually hear about egs but honestly what I don't like the most is simply that I can't share my library with my family. Means that we're spending basically 2x as much on games.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

You cant?

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

Like as great as the entire Supergiant collection is, my brother wouldn't have ever opened Transistor or bought it on his own.

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

you can! sorta

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

You can't on EGS, shared library features afaik are not available on EGS at the current time.

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

i share hades with my brother

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:06 PM

#

At least not in the same capacity.

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

well, its even better than in steam.... lol

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

Some games dont have DRM and those are trivial

#

Im not sure what the other method is however

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:07 PM

#

My brother bought Hades anyway during the sale. He adores it and didn't want to have to borrow my account to play it lol.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

Im pretty sure Hades is DRM-free

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:08 PM

#

~~which was a very fun conversation when he checked the credits list on his own and saw my name on there lol~~

#

I'm curious though what's the method of sharing on EGS?

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

in steam, if my brother wanted to play a game from my library while i was playing something, he couldnt bc my library is in use by me. bc hades is drm free i could log into my account on his computer, install it, and he can log back into his account and launch it from there

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:09 PM

#

Oh right you can do that

#

Luckily I don't have an issue with that because if I see he's using my games I just play Overwatch lol

#

I believe I can also go into offline mode and it lets him use it and me at the same time.

empty cradle Aug 22, 2019, 7:10 PM

#

yes it does

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:11 PM

#

Like I got my brother to play the Dishonored series and start the Bioshock series with steam share. It's basically why I'm always looking to exclusively buy from Steam.

empty cradle Aug 22, 2019, 7:12 PM

#

Dishonored series ❤

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:12 PM

#

Not that Steam doesn't have a bazillion of its own issues because it does, but I'm preferring to stick with it as much as I can. Hades was my exception because Supergiant games place exceptionally high on my list and I wanted to be involved in the early access process.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

Doesnt steam share require you to share a computer as well?

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

nope!

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:13 PM

#

All you have to do is log in to the particular computer you want it shared on and allow sharing to a different account.

sharp grail Aug 22, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

well, technically, but ^

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

You can only share up to a max of 5 computers and 10 accounts tho afaik

#

Might be 10 and 5

empty cradle Aug 22, 2019, 7:14 PM

#

i meant my friend moved to russia and we share games that way through steam

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:15 PM

#

Plus I'd be lying if I said Epic's business practice doesn't rub me the wrong way, cause it kinda does. It's not the fault of developers, hell I understand them taking the deals because the game market is exceptionally volatile atm, but I don't think I want to be involved with supporting some of those practices past Hades.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

The whole "exclusives" thing I take it?

empty cradle Aug 22, 2019, 7:16 PM

#

^ im not a fan of it

#

i wanted borderland 3 so bad but ill wait for steam

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

I can see the argument, but Im more pragmatic about it

#

Steam needs to be broken up, badly

#

And government intervention is just not gonna happen

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

It's not something I particularly like, but I am okay with developers taking it when they need the money cause imo what Epic is offering from a money perspective imo should be the industry standard

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:17 PM

#

"Fair" play is clearly incapable of busting a monopoly, so this is how it has to go

#

It would also help if people remembered Steam started out with exclusives as well

#

Its hardly a new thing

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

My issue however especially now is how Epic has adopted the mentality of "if you're not going exclusive we don't want to sell your game on our platform at all"

That I dislike. I feel like that is bullying indie devs to sell on epic.

#

(the story about DARQ I believe is the game?)

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:18 PM

#

Yeah, it is.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:19 PM

#

There's a recent Jimquisition from Jim Sterling that basically outlines all my issues with the EGS (I won't be linking it here because Jim Sterling isn't known for his family friendly content, but you can Google him to find it)

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

Is that the case?

#

I was under the impression that all the "free" games get sold afterwards

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:20 PM

#

That was pretty much the point where I decided things had gone too far. I love the concept behind EGS. The messy execution through a launch with missing features and their business practices however, make me wish a different company had decided to launch an endeavor like this instead. I'll just stick to Steam and GOG after Hades is done Early Access. It was the only reason I've stuck with Epic this long.

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 7:21 PM

#

honestly im still gunning for itch

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:21 PM

#

Yeah, moonlighter is available on the EGS, so do they just make exceptions for the free games?

#

That would be weird

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:21 PM

#

Their exceptions are on triple A games and indie games on a case by case basis.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

I mean all of their free games so far have been indie, and all of them get sold regularly afterwards

buoyant frigate Aug 22, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

games that were previously published on other platforms aren't required to go exclusive if they add their game to epic. it mostly applies to new releases. all the games that have been free are also available for sale via egs.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

I also disliked what happened with EGS and Metro Exodus / Shenmue 3 / Outer Worlds. Games that promised Steam releases to backers and then cannot deliver on said promises because of the EGS and therefore hurt their backers and broke promises.

That I feel was unfair to both developers and backers. EGS should not be imo pulling rugs out from people like that.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:22 PM

#

Ah

#

Yeah that would make sense

#

Yeah thats fair

#

Ultimately I see it more pragmatically, but at least this side of the argument makes sense

#

Unlike the false rumours and lies about spying and security issues that people tend to bring up instead

#

Not sure why they do that

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:23 PM

#

Spying? What?

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:24 PM

#

Yeah people read the ToS for once and thought it meant that China is using the EGS to spy on you

#

The problem is they never read any of the other ToS's because uh

#

Who does that, really

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:25 PM

#

While I'm not directly adverse to exclusive offerings I'd prefer if it was under these criteria:

The titles that were exclusive were made at least in some fashion by Epic, so it's more reasonable.
That EGS wasn't strong arming indie companies to sell on their platform, otherwise deny the advantages the EGS has (small market and less competing games, much fairer price split, and guaranteed bought sales so the game doesn't fail)
That EGS wasn't breaking backer dev promises.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:25 PM

#

Last 2 I can get behind, first one however is too restrictive

#

At least, until the monopoly gets broken

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:26 PM

#

If you believe Tencent is spying on you thru EGS you ought to believe the same thing about LoL. That I just find to be conspiracy jargon and dumb.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:26 PM

#

Well, all of them combined really.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:26 PM

#

Its not just a matter of steam taking really unfair cuts

#

Steam has way too much power over what gets big, and what doesnt

#

When they changed the algorithms last year to favour AAA games over indie

#

That hurt indie games real bad

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:26 PM

#

The reason I'm okay with PS4 exclusives for example is because Naughty Dog and co are Sony owned publishing studios. It makes sense.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:27 PM

#

You know, I don't even know why China would care about my data so I'm gonna press x to doubt on that claim.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:27 PM

#

I'm less a fan of a third party platform buying up the selling rights to a game they did not actually assist in creating at all with actual resources besides money

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:27 PM

#

Understandable.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:27 PM

#

But it's not impacted me once. I have no problem waiting a year for any of the games on EGS tbh.

#

Hades was the exception because I wanted to be involved in an early access program from one of my favorite studios.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:28 PM

#

Well some exclusivity deals also make sure the studio doesnt go under before the game releases

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:28 PM

#

All of them do. They buy the first million or so copies of the game ahead of time and all that money goes upfront.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:28 PM

#

Same. And I definitely understand why the larger cut in profit and the upfront payment is an attractive offer to indie studios and fully support them taking such deals. Just not when the promised Steam versions on release in their Kickstarter, etc.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:28 PM

#

So basically you're being guaranteed a sale of a million copies regardless of how well it does.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:29 PM

#

Well I mean more that in some cases, the studio going under was actually a true risk

#

Or even certain

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:29 PM

#

I have no issues with the developers. My issues are solely with Epic and EGS.

#

I don't blame developers for taking exclusivity deals because imo what Epic is offering is what everyone should be offering.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:30 PM

#

Exactly that.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:30 PM

#

That being an 88% revenue cut to devs and guaranteed purchase of copies to prevent game from flopping.

#

And Steam does need to fix itself before it can offer that in reality. So much garbage is on steam it's impossible to find good indie games these days

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:31 PM

#

Doesnt help that theyre suppressing indie in favour of AAA games

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:31 PM

#

I can't confirm that myself but I wouldn't be surprised.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:31 PM

#

Valve has become rather complacent due to the monopoly they've got on that front.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:31 PM

#

Oh it was a big deal last year

#

First it was a bug that made it considerably worse

#

So traffic for indie devs just straight up crashed overnight

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

Triple A games are kinda starting to die off on Steam given how awful some companies have been. That and they're all trying to make Steam money by selling on their own platforms.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:32 PM

#

They fixed the bug, but the algorithms still were changed to favour AAA more

#

So traffic still went down overall for indie devs

#

Which, combined with a 30% cut is a big problem

#

I think that was October or November of last year

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

That and there was that Steam sale game that had people dropping a lot of indie games from their wishlists due to unclear conditions.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

I heard it among other things from a couple friends who either are indie devs or well acquainted with them

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

That and it is by far more profitable for Valve to sell Triple A games than indie games because indie games are rarely priced at $60 followed by "fee to play" absurdity.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

Yup

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

Funny, I'm actually writing an editorial about that very subject for next week. But there's a lot of misconceptions about what Epic offers in regards to incentives for exclusivities.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:33 PM

#

The worst part is that steam doesnt need even remotely that much money

#

They could easily match the cut to 12% and still be one of the most profitable companies period

#

Like, back in I think it was 2014

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

There is a lot of misconception about the EGS in general and that's because the discussion about it has become an absolute dumpster fire where someone emptied the sewage into and left it to ferment for a year.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

Gabe Newell basically said that if adjusted to the number of employees, Valve makes more money than all of the Fortune 500 companies

#

And their profits increased immensely

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

@summer hamlet I have no concrete proof, but I can't help but wonder how many rumors were started by Steam/Valve

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:34 PM

#

Eh, few I imagine

#

Valve has enough fanatic fans as is

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

You can't even have a civil discussion on the EGS anymore. Just look at what happened to games like Ooblets. (Though I think they partially dug their own graves on that one)

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

They dont need to even fan the flames, let alone throw in some sparks

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

Ooblets could have handled that a lot better, but the reaction only proved their point.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

Epic hasn't really helped out their case either for what it's worth unfortunately.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

Nothing excuses them getting -death threats-

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:35 PM

#

What happened with Ooblets?

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

No, Epic's BS with the "surprise mechanics" thing isn't doing them favors right now.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

I feel awful for the Ooblets devs since no one deserves that level of vitriol. But that was not a great PR move.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

Wait, what

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

https://ooblets.com/2019/07/we-did-the-thing/

Ooblets

We did the thing

A rather large announcement

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

Im like 95% sure that Epic doesnt have any lootboxes at all

#

Not in their games, at least

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

Um

#

fortnite?

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

They do.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

Doesnt have any

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

Ooblets deserved the backlash it got for being condescending and rude to legitimate concerns about the EGS. It didn't deserve hate speech, death threats, or calling the devs literal... well you get the point.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

The uh

#

The standalone coop version

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

The llamas?

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

The one that got completely forgotten

#

Was fixed over half a year ago

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:36 PM

#

Save the World

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:37 PM

#

Yeah that one

#

They changed it in like january

#

The BR mode doesnt have any, and the coop version doesnt have them either anymore

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:37 PM

#

They had to give an explanation on their microtransactions. It was...not particularly brilliant. This was during the same hearing in which "surprise mechanics" got used as an excuse by an EA spokeswoman, I believe.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:38 PM

#

dont forget epic had a big pr nightmare with their employee treatment earlier this year

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:38 PM

#

Regardless: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwnk7d/ea-says-loot-boxes-are-just-surprise-mechanics

It might have been a statement by EA, but Epic took a hit for it too.

Vice

EA Says Loot Boxes Are Just 'Surprise Mechanics'

'Fortnite' developer Epic Games told the House of Commons that it does not operate a 'sweatshop where managers are standing behind people with weapons forcing people to work.'

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:38 PM

#

Again, that would surprise me, seeing how they dont have any

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:38 PM

#

Earlier this year? Try for the last 5 years. One of their former CEOs basically said "If you don't want to work 60 hours per week, don't try to work in the game industry"

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:39 PM

#

If anything Valve should take the hit

#

Given that they not only have lootboxes in every single one of their games (and I would argue the most predatory at that)

#

They are also responsible for bringing lootboxes to the west and popularizing them

#

Its a shame Valve has basically gotten untouchable because they deserve to be scrutinized more than even EA

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

Fornite absolutely has microtransactions.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

I don't disagree, and it's one of the reasons why I still support EGS > Steam, in general.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

I mean, it has microtransactions, yes

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

Fortnite has the battle pass.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

Its a free to play game

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

Epic hasnt helped their case with how aggressive they've been about exclusives.

Also, Tim Sweeny is being disingenuous in his arguments about what the EGS is doing. If it really was for the better of the game community overall and not just to shortcut their way to the front to compete with Steam and make more money, then they wouldnt be denying indie games who dont want to be exclusive the ability to sell on EGS as un-exclusive, and they wouldn't be breaking kickstarter/patreon backer promises.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

They are just not lootboxes

#

I dont have a problem with microtransactions inherently

#

Being able to buy cosmetics for cash in a free game is perfectly ok

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:40 PM

#

@summer hamlet Is that from the Kotaku article?

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

I think its a bit of both, Pear

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

I saw Jong Yea quote that one, and I disagree with it, strongly.

#

It's called curation.

#

And it's something else that Steam could benefit from, but chose not to.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:41 PM

#

Less shortcut and more "sledgehammer to break the otherwise solid wall"

#

But the idea is that they cant have a real impact unless they are able to compete with steam

#

Which they cant without playing unfairly as GoG and many others have shown

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

I'm referencing DARQ with that, and how they were denied the ability to ever sell on EGS unless they go exclusive with them.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

Which isnt to say I agree with otherwise restricting indies

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

Which the developer chose not to because it would mean breaking his promise to his backers that he would have a steam release.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

And also I dont think they dont have non-pure motives as well

#

But

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

Then that's his choice. Oh well. But here's the thing, cerberus....

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:42 PM

#

Their actions arent without logic

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

(its Pear, but no worries lol, ive been memeing with cerberus for a while and I need to addend that)

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:43 PM

#

If Epic wasn't doing the exclusives, people wouldn't use it, because they already have something else.

If you have a store next door, and a store half a mile away, and they sell the same product for the same price, which store are you going to go to?

#

Now, if the store next door doesn't have the product you want, you're going to go to the store a half a mile away, right?

#

But otherwise you'd never consider it.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

Funny thing is even if the new shop was closer you might not go to it

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

I actually disagree with that argument.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

Because people are lazy and convenience is convenience.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

Because youre so used to the old one

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

True, UNO.

#

Don't get me wrong...

#

EGS lacks a lot of features.

#

That is the only -valid- argument against it though.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

Steam absolutely needs the competition. Just not competition of this sort.

I go to stores based on how they treat their employees. We had a Walmart very close to my last place and a Superstore further out. The Superstore was more expensive and further away but Walmart treating its employees terrible meant we would take the hit in gas and shop further. So please don't make such assumptions.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

The exclusivity thing is just whiny entitlement.

#

Period.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:44 PM

#

Eh

#

I dont agree with that even if Im not strictly anti-exclusives

#

The way they go about it is at times definitely kinda bad

#

Spike, I think he is talking more about the average user rather than you specifically

#

Unfortunately, the average user doesnt care much about employees

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

^

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

A lot of people are actually upset with Steam and would like to switch off it because Steam refuses to deal with it's issues. I am actually one of those people.

The problem is they don't consider the EGS in its current form to be a fit competitor since it lacks a lot of features which are now considered "industry standard"

Most people dislike Epic not because of exclusives, but because exclusives feel like an excuse to launch a half baked launcher, patch slowly into release, and milk as much money off the market as they can, despite the benefits they offer.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

Which I assume in thois case are the uh

#

Game devs, I guess?

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:46 PM

#

"Milk as much money off the market" I highly doubt EGS is making near what people assume from the EGS.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

As far as the features go

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

The fact is they're willing to take losses at this stage, because they know that their platform is functionally inferior.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

Id say there is only one important feature the EGS is really missing, cloud-saves

#

Most of the other things Ive seen are just kinda ... redundant or superfluous?

#

I mightve missed something

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

Exclusives are fine. The issue is how they're handling that.

Well no, their earnings will take a hit since they're spending a lot of money securing the exclusives in the first place.

The lack of regional pricing is bothersome though. I've had the issue with several storefronts.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

Cloud Saves, Screenshots, Mod support, and quite a few other things, really.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:47 PM

#

Oh I'm sure its not a big money maker for them, they have fortnite for that. Its why they can do what they're doing.

My issue is though why didn't they just create a launcher that rivaled steam from day one? Don't do this patch thing like Fallout 76 where you release a half baked buggy product and over the next couple years make it decent.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

Personally Im just glad the EGS doesnt try to update every time I launch my PC taking up at least 10 minutes

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

The regional pricing thing either is fixed or is soon to be.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

its not fixed yet unfortunately

#

as of Ooblets its not fixed

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/aexzhi/epic_game_store_adds_regional_pricing_support/

r/Games - Epic Game Store adds regional pricing support

808 votes and 565 comments so far on Reddit

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

Dont games usually have their own screenshot feature?

#

Fair point on mods though

#

Totally missed those

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

Not all of them, UNO. Less so with modern ones.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

Huh

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

I hope so. And a proper reviews section would be nice while they're at it.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:48 PM

#

most of the complaints to the ooblets devs were the inability to use their currency to purchase the game because a lack of currency conversion

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Frankly, I hope Epic never does reviews.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Mmh

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Steam reviews are -garbage- and toxic.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Man thats a tough aspect actually

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Yeah they want to do opt in review systems which I think is a garbage idea in all honesty.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

I do use steam reviews sometimes

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

opt in by the devs

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

But

#

Theyre mostly useless

#

Like, really useless

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Am I the only person that finds steam reviews actually helpful lol

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Yes.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

Hardly the only one

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

solid oof there

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:49 PM

#

And they are helpful sometimes

#

But, lets see

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

They can be a very rough litmus test.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

There are a lot of garbage ones, you gotta sift thru the muck

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

Of the last 10 games Ive played

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

At best.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

What Steam needs is better review moderation, not no reviews period imo.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

1 was accurate

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

But I'm biased, seeing as writing reviews is my profession, so I'll grant that.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

Honestly, there are a quite a few that have been really helpful, both positive and negative. These are usually the ones that talk about the actual features of the game and how they work in practice.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

Which was crosscode

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

steam hates moderation and that's the worst part of it

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

Hey was that my review of CrossCode? :p

#

I spent like an hour writing it

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

Steam needs better moderation overall.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

Basically, steams reviews are only useful once you reach either 95% positive

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:50 PM

#

Cake's got it in 1

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:51 PM

#

Or below 40%

#

I dont know, I never pay attention to reviews

#

I just saw it on the steam frontpage with 95% positive

#

Thought it looked charming

#

Waited for a sale to buy it just to be sure (something I regret tbqh)

#

And was absolutely amazed

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:51 PM

#

Oh that was the other thing

#

I was super unhappy with the EGS blowout sale

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:51 PM

#

I should just buy Crosscode again on Itch.io

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:52 PM

#

The fact that you can review a game on Steam without owning it makes it useless, imo.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:52 PM

#

wait you can

#

that's absurdly dumb lmao

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:52 PM

#

Because people buy reviews.

#

So you simply can't trust crap on there.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:52 PM

#

oof

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:52 PM

#

The sale was not well handled.

Wait what? How is that a thing?

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:52 PM

#

Same with the "Steam Curators" or w/e they call them.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:53 PM

#

I was super unhappy with the EGS sale mostly because it gave Hades a lot of negative blowback in many of my other circles and I had to spend a week basically defusing the situation around that.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:53 PM

#

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-03-02-steam-user-reviews-can-be-bought-for-usd5-report

GamesIndustry.biz

Steam user reviews can be bought for $5 - Report

It's surprisingly easy to get positive reviews for Steam games on the Fiverr website, PCGamesN found

#

How did the sale give Hades blowback?

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:53 PM

#

That's messed up.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

There was the whole price increase thing

#

Which was a real mess

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-removes-publishers-games-from-steam-for-manipulating-review-scores/

pcgamer

Valve removes publisher's games from Steam for manipulating review...

Wild Buster publisher Insel Games strongly encouraged its employees to buy and review the game.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

No wait, 2/10

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

Granted, in this case they got busted, because it was so blatant.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

I forgot Pyre was within the last 10

#

But yeah, the margin of error for steam reviews is generally too large

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:54 PM

#

But it happens all the time.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

Its something like +-20%

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

I'd say 40, frankly.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

You can only trust it at the edges

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

+-40%, easily.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

Eh, thats a bit too much Id argue

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

Depending on the pool. When the pool gets over 5k, it's another story.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

Relying on steam reviews to judge a game is just generally a bad idea

#

So not having on-site reviews

#

Seems wise to me

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

^

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

There were several problems with the sale. One of them was not consulting with developer in forehand. It ended up getting Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines 2 pulled.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

We have dedicated websites for it

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

you'd have to ask a dev for what exactly happened but basically Hades went on sale for $7 for about 5 hours which wasnt what Supergiant wanted. From what I can tell, EGS didn't really explain how the sale was gonna work.

So Hades was on the fly base cost increased to $25 to make the $15 amount for the sale what they wanted. Unfortunately, that's technically something you can get in big trouble for (raising the base price of a product during a sale) in basically every country, so a bunch of people started calling out Supergiant and blaming the issue on them. (even though I personally think it was the fault of Epic's poor sale communication) Fortunately this was all fixed by the end of the day but there was some negative blowback in a lot of circles I was in because of it.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

Plus youtube

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

<--- Like this guy 😛

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

Actually you cant really get in trouble for that, that was just people misunderstanding law really badly

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

#

To make matters worse, Supergiant just said on twitter they would never raise the base price without ample warning

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

Which to be fair

#

Law is not easy

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

which... yeah didn't look good unfortunately

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

Fair, yeah, that would be a bad look, but I would still chalk it up to growing pains.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

technically you're not allowed to raise the base price of something during a sale, it is actually illegal, at least afaik in the US it is.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

I chalk it up to shoddy communication

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

^

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 7:57 PM

#

Its a bit more complicated than that

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:58 PM

#

Which as you grow, your communication over such matters improves.

#

But one thing that people (developers mostly but consumers too) didn't take into account was that EGS was the ones eating the price differential.

buoyant frigate Aug 22, 2019, 7:58 PM

#

(just to clarify, sgg did not want the game on sale for $7, that was a mistake on Epic's end. the price increase was to balance it to what it should have actually been the whole time)

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

Or so they claimed elsewhere.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 7:59 PM

#

yes that is correct, and ill believe them on that because Supergiant has never given me any reason to distrust them (they're one of the few game studios i still trust basically blindly)

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

I cant find the US laws for this currently, but if theyre like the british ones, you basically cant raise the base price in a way that makes the sale a "false sale"

#

Its basically a form of false advertisement

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

also obligatory ~~dont ban me pls i luv u :kappa:~~

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

But increasing base price during sale is in fact legal so long as it doesnt fall under that

#

Which steam certainly needs because they screwed up a couple times before

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:00 PM

#

End of the day: EGS is hardly perfect, but Steam is a long cry from it either.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:01 PM

#

Like that one time where the complete Blazblue collection cost half of just the latest game

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

And if EGS and the people it works with want to use exclusives as a way to drum up business, I have no problem with it, and if people DO have a problem with it, they should vote with their wallet, but the toxicity of death threats and review bombing is indicative of everything wrong with the gaming industry.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

More wrong with fanatic fanboys tbqh

#

Which I guess is part of whats wrong with the industry?

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

My tldr of the EGS / Steam debacle is "yes Steam has a lot of issues and no one will disagree with you there, but dont fool yourself into thinking the EGS is gonna be the savior of the video game market. They've got plenty of their own issues and problems, and they're not necessarily helping, nor are their intentions as pure as some people want to believe."

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

Steam's perfection or lack thereof really has nothing to do with EGS's own failings. I will use the storefront when the features I hope for are included and until then that's a no. Really people are going to each have to make that choice for themselves.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

Not -just- fanatic fanboys, but entitlement in general.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:02 PM

#

tldr "dont trust mega corporations lol"

raven harbor Aug 22, 2019, 8:03 PM

#

I thought the issue was that SGG happened to be planning a cost increase that hit when the sale hit

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:03 PM

#

And that's fine, Spike, it really is.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:03 PM

#

They were but they had stated the day before they would give well warned advance for it

#

which they did end up doing, just after the entire issue where they briefly raised it to counteract the EGS discount

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:03 PM

#

So long as you're not spreading false information about EGS, or review bombing games on Steam because of an EGS release, or other chicanery.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

That would be unnecessary and downright malicious.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

I mean EGS doesnt have to be the saviour, mainly because even that term makes me cringe

#

They just need to be the impetus for change

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

Yeah, that's not on in any situation

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

But that's what's happening Spike. And worse.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

yeah dont tell people EGS is taking your data and giving it to china because at least with all the evidence presented, its not lol

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

And in this case especially, it's still early access

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

and I mean, you can cry "Anti-consumerism!" all you want, but I'm going to mock you and then block you if you do.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

Especially since at this point, solving the situation with clean hands isnt possible

#

Unless you are

#

Well, the US government I suppose

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:05 PM

#

Clean hands and government tend to be mutually exculsive

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:05 PM

#

While i personally dont like what its doing and i find it anti-consumer, im never going to attack a dev for taking the deal because again, as I've stated before, what Epic is offering to studios should be industry standard. Everyone should be doing that.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:05 PM

#

Yeah

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:05 PM

#

Ehhh

#

I wouldnt quite buy into that government distrust

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

There have been devs who have handled the switch to EGS awfully

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Even if it is true for many nations

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Tbh I don't distrust the government

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Everyone should be at least be offering that 88 split. Every platform can clearly afford it, so they should.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Where I live the biggest problem we have is incompetency

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

That I imagine all but the most fanatical valve fanboys can agree on

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

government and incompetency? You just described the entire planet :kappa:

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Its especially important for indies

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Governments do what they must to keep their nations thriving. What the must is depends on the people in charge.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:06 PM

#

Since those 18% arent gonna make even a dent into Valves bottomline

#

But can easily be the difference between success and shutting down for indies

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

Yeah

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

And frankly at this point indies are arguably the most important part of the gaming industry

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

But yeah, really, Value should be offering the same cut to devs as Epic.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

-arguably

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

yeah because im never buying an activision or ea game again ever lol

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

I definitely agree on that account

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

hell i dont think im ever buying a bethesda game again either

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

Or Ubisoft (for me at least)

#

Or them

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

Indie games are really becoming more of a driving force

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

I actually wrote an article about why I think we need to change the names of Indie/AAA

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

ubisoft is kinda on my "list of least offenders" but AC Odyssey was pretty bad

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

Bethesda's planning on using the same engine as the last three games for their next two, btw

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

I mean Ill buy some Squeenix, Capcom and various sony developers games

#

And Atlus

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

Hopefully this doesn't get me smacked:

http://www.onrpg.com/news/editorial/indie-vs-aaa/

Indie VS AAA: The False Dichotomy of the Gaming Industry | OnRPG

Terris grabs you by the ears and drags you down his recent rabbit hole experience with examining the differences between AAA and Indie studios.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

if its not ok a mod will take it down, they wont just ban you lol

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 PM

#

But like, theyre good but they dont really push gaming forward for the most part

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

and they are definitely watching this chat right now hi mods :p

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

Except Persona 5 maybe because that UI design is just gorgeous

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

Tbh? All I want is the next shovel knight campaign to come out soon

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

Ubisoft has been on my poop list since The Division launched and they pulled some hijinks.

somber ferry Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

p5's ui is GORGEOUS

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

persona 5's ui is very beautiful, my only issue with it is at some times its rather cluttered

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

They DAY BEFORE LAUNCH Ubi announced that Xbox would get expansions a month before everyone else

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

P5 is the prime example of quality through personality

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:09 PM

#

It also manages to be extremely stylish without losing functionality

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

~~wow basically all the mods are watching this lol~~

somber ferry Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

~~hi there~~

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

And Caitlin

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

Eyes emoji

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

If they'd done that like a month before launch, I could have let it go.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

Hi Caitlin

somber ferry Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

hey that's ratlin to you

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

But to do it the very day before? That's... gross.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

i mean i guess its to be expected because "epic games store discussion" and it tends to be rather toxic unfortunately

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

But yeah, basically the big game studios got too big for their own good

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:10 PM

#

This one has been surprisingly adult. 😛

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

When that much money is on the line, taking risks is, well, hard to justify

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

Yep.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

Personally I blame the obsession with "realistic" graphics

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

Which is actually something else in Epic's favor.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

That's a very good point.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

It is.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

Because the risks that they're taking are massive.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

Watch... the... latest... Jimquisition... :p

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

Because like

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

They're basically giving their indie exclusives minimum sales guarantees.

#

At least some of them.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:11 PM

#

I know that objectively the graphics have improved in the last 3 years

#

But I can hardly tell

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

And they're doing it up front.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

I've found that the more a game tries to create its own style, the better they turn out

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

Like, MGSV looks just as good as Anthem or whatever

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

Its a huge pr benefit for them to confront the "toxicity of the game community against epic hate" because it makes them look like the good guys and prevents legit criticism from being raised.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

On the other hand Persona 5 looks amazing despite being a lot less realistic

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

^

#

What cerb said.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

That too.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

Although Jim has gone way down hill.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

like after Ooblets Epic came out and said it would offer full resources to help the ooblets devs and protect them from the harrassment. They get to look like the knight in shining armor even though their aggressive business practices are kinda the reason the ooblets devs have been harrassed.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:12 PM

#

With a few exceptions, games that make their games look unique more than realistic age far better

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

So I kinda want the big studios to stop chasing the super-high fidelity dream at some point

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

Case in point: this very dev team

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

^

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

Which isnt to say that the technology shouldnt advance, its very important elsewhere

#

Visual Computing is a big deal

#

But maybe games dont need it anymore

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

@storm wing It's one reason I suggested "Niche" vs "Mass Market" in my article.

#

Niche isn't a bad thing, and it can be a huge niche.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:13 PM

#

Ah, good point

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

#

i dont care that your game has 16x the detail and 4k graphics support, if it runs like trash on my pc i aint buying it lol

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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Also that, yeah

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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Also, let people like Kojima do the graphics advancement stuff.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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Again, I like to bring up MGSV

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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Yeah, I won't be able to get doom eternal on my garbage laptop

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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Because that game ran extremely smooth

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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Death Stranding looks brilliant.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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doom needs that hyper realistic graphic though

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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CDPR is another one. CP2077 is going to be so fire.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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The engine was optimized to absolutely ridiculous levels

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:14 PM

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MGSV seems to work phenomenally well on my laptop

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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how else am i gonna fulfill my sadistic blood spilling demon murdering tendencies :kappa:

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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It works on everything really

#

I dont know what black magic they pulled

#

But its incredible

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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So there's something to be said for games with "Realism". Mass market appeal -isn't a bad thing-

mystic nymph Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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A game can look realistic and great and still run well on not-great hardware with good optimization yeah

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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You know what other game survived really well thanks to its unique style?

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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Im still hesitant about CP2077

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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I cannot wait for CP2077 tbh. It looks stunning and is advertised as stunning.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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Team Fortress 2

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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@storm wing Everything by Klei?

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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im sus about cp2077

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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That too

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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Wait TF2 survived? :kappa:

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:15 PM

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@summer hamlet Might even say Breathtaking?

somber ferry Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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tf2 uh

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the economy crashed again lol

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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That game hasnt gotten a major content update in like 2 years lol

mystic nymph Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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The economy sure didn’t 😎

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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since Jungle Inferno

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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It's lived longer than a lot of other games

faint panther Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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I got a lobby last week, Cerb.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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Yeah lmao

somber ferry Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

#

there was a crate that hecked up and guaranteed more unusuals than it should've

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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But people still play and love the game

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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Ok, so they at least confirmed that you can play CP2077 nonlethally

somber ferry Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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so the economy had a heart attack

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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that and I personally quit playing tf2 when overwatch came out because I honestly enjoy its gameplay way more

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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Yep UNO

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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That is very important to me

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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And I think something about some MP was announced?

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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I basically only play stealth and stealth-esque games nonlethally

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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I found the opposite to be true for me

mystic nymph Aug 22, 2019, 8:16 PM

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The original Wind Waker holds up quite well graphically due to its unique art style

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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I couldn't get into overwatch

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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see Spy is fun and all, but Sombra is oh so much more infuriating and i love the baby rage :kappa:

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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I don't like Overwatch's balancing

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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i feed off the salty tears of dead reinhardt players

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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My issue was that Overwatch's characters felt more, idk, shallow?

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Empty?

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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Ah no, they said MP isn't out of the question.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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I was a winston and rein main

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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Like, they look pretty

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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You are dead to me

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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Overwatch = Box fee + f2p mechanics = garbage.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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LOL

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:17 PM

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But most of them are just not terribly interesting

#

On the other hand I cant get enough of the Medic

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And Soldier

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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Yup

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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Got Soldier has so many good quotes

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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The tf2 classes are just so incredible on their own

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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The new character is incredibly fun

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as in the newest one

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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"You can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. And even then good luck! Because I will have glued it to my cold, dead hands"

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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I very rarely had fun playing as mercy and a few other heros

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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Sigma, yes?

mystic nymph Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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TF2 has the advantage of having an introductory short for each character that I’m sure all of us have seen at some point to be fair, but the personality traits shown in those shorts are expressed in-game very well for the most part

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:18 PM

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He actually looked interesting

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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Yeah

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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yeah Sigma. He's very interesting and very fun to play.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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Even in-game there is a lot of character in their voicelines

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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Tf2 is overflowing with personality

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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dont ask why sigma is barefoot

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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Back when Valve still made games

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More or less

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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And yeah what LookingGlass said, TF2's advantage is that its more comedic and doesnt really take itself seriously, so it has a much easier time conveying that rich character.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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Now all they make is enemies and money. <.<

mystic nymph Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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Soldier and Demo wouldn’t be nearly as fun to play without their personalities being the way they are

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:19 PM

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And while overwatch definitely has personality, I feel like they played it too safe

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Also, do we know if Cyberpunk 2077 has gender fluidity or the like?

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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@storm wing That's because the market for Overwatch is much younger.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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The reason all of TF2's characters are so fun is because they're honestly so ridiculous, and in an environment like Overwatch's setup I just don't think that would have worked.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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@hasty kernel Confirmed yes.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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That's true

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Good

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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It does, Uno. I believe they confirmed that.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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In fact, there was controversy over a poster.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Yeah.

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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yeah that poster was not a good look

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Because people wanted to take things the worst possible way

#

I know plenty of trans people that had no problem with it.

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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i know plenty that did

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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And if you read their explanation, it makes sense.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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But that poster was just another part of the overindustrialisation

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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The point of the poster was that the trans community was being exploited the same way every community was.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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Ill just keep a cautious eye on 2077 then

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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Yeah

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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Now I swear

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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And that's a good way to send the message

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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@hasty kernel https://www.newsweek.com/cyberpunk-2077-character-creator-gender-fluid-e3-2019-1443952

Newsweek

'Cyberpunk 2077' will have a gender fluid character creator

Marcin Iwinski said the binary male/female choice seen in the recent E3 2019 demo isn't representative of the final product.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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If WotC announce a Cyberpunk Netrunner game to cash in on it

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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I'll wait to see about the full thing, but im not sold that it's on our side

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:21 PM

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I will be extremely nettled

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:22 PM

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I actually have the Netrunner box set.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:22 PM

#

Also they have straightup haitians

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:22 PM

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But that's different 😛

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Which is really cool

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:22 PM

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Original or A:NR?

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:22 PM

#

So something else people gotta remember, is that games journalism as a whole is likely still partly in favor of knocking CDPR down a peg because they're a "triple a" company who stands above the rest because they're not a pile of scum. So if they can interpret something in a way that makes CDPR look bad, they're gonna do it imo.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:22 PM

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And seeing people react to getting representation was really friggin cute

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:22 PM

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It's called "Android Netrunner" UNO

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

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Thats A:NR

#

There just was an original version

#

Like in the early 2000s

#

Its why WotC has the license

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

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~~Probably because CDPR isn't paying them to give them good reviews~~

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

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i definitely think its also easy to pick on cdpr because they've definitely made some big mistakes in the past

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

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Hey Zag? F' off with that crap.

#

Nobody gets paid to do reviews.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

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But yeah, Im really mad about WotC refusing to renew the license

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

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I'm kidding

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

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Well please don't.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

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Netrunner was the best card game we ever had

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 PM

#

doesnt EA basically pay people to do that though

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

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I'm just used to being cynical with this stuff

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

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As someone who has weathered that accusation more than once, it's not funny.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

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like EA has reviewers they give benefits to and blacklists others

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

#

It's hard not to be

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

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So for WotC to just cancel it, especially if it was cancelled just to release some shoddy cashgrab Cyberpunk game

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

#

there are definitely advantages to giving good reviews all the time, or else IGN wouldn't still be running

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

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Is extremely disappointing

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

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I mean. You get paid. A salary? But yeah, I sincerely doubt that reviews are being bribed by publishers. It's different than influencers that do sponsored content.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:24 PM

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There are limits to what you can "give" to someone for a review, and it must be announced what is given in said review.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:25 PM

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True

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:25 PM

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I get per diem payment.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:25 PM

#

G2A got blasted for trying to do that without it being announced

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:25 PM

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But it comes from the corp I work for, CPMStar, and I have never once EVER been told to give a favorable review to a game that didn't deserve it.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:26 PM

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I personally just think people are looking for excuses to knock CDPR down a peg due to past experiences, and the fact that they're a big studio/company with lots of funding that actually acts decently and has morals. They're not easy to make stories out of because they typically aren't negative, so whenever something can be spinned negative against CDPR, they're gonna do that, cause "CDPR bad" generates the clicks.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

G2A is another story

#

They're toxic to the industry

#

All of their practices are predatory.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

Yeah

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

Also CDPR isnt without flaws, given what happened on glassdoor a while back

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:26 PM

#

When devs tell people to pirate their games instead of buying from G2A you know it's bad

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:26 PM

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@summer hamlet People want to knock CDPR down because of their nasty Crunch practices.

#

Agreed Zag.

hexed hollow Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

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Can we yeet G2A into the sun and be done with them?

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

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Absolutely awful crunch, yeah

faint panther Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

What.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

Crunch?

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

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A term in development in general

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

I'm unfamiliar with the term

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

yeah, Cyberpunk 2077 is in Crunch, and has been for months, even though the release is in April

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

oh yeah cdpr has crunch issues but unfortunately that's not really a problem unique to them

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

Oh

upbeat scroll Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

crunch is when devs are overworked

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

Crunch time

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

Yeah, they had an entire debacle about crunch. It's long periods of overworking employees.

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

that's basically what every triple a company is doing these days

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:27 PM

#

Essentially a phase of very long work hours

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

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Crunch is when you expect yoru employees to work 50-60+ hours a week, or without taking days off, for weeks and weeks.

storm wing Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

Yeah that's an industry wide issue

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

or even months

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

In case of CP2077

#

Its apparently years

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

its awful and no one should be doing that but its not a case unique to CDPR in the slightest.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

True, but its a big problem

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

Epic got in big trouble for that a couple months ago.

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

That again, calls back to the whole indie and AAA comparision

faint panther Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

This is why unions in games is so important.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

No it's not, but CDPR did some especially bad cases with Witcher 3

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

Yeah that doesnt surprise me

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

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Its because game programmers dont really have rights as a whole in bigger companies. No unions, no laws, etc

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

Indie games at least appear to be better about crunch

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

#

Agree Schpoonman.

cinder blaze Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

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Yes. It's a very widespread problem. :/ And that's what people should be talking about rather than some unrelated offenses seeing as that is an actual problem impacting people on a large scale.

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:28 PM

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I link a union organizer in my article 😛

hasty kernel Aug 22, 2019, 8:29 PM

#

I certainly trust SGG to handle it well

faint panther Aug 22, 2019, 8:29 PM

#

You ever see someone badmouthing unions you smack them (verbally).

summer hamlet Aug 22, 2019, 8:29 PM

#

Indie games typically are imo because their teams are smaller and they're generally better about planning what they can pull off and being realistic with their deadlines

supple sleet Aug 22, 2019, 8:29 PM

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https://www.gameworkersunite.org/

Game Workers Unite!

Game Workers Unite is a broad-reaching organization that seeks to connect pro-union activists, exploited workers, and allies across borders and across ideologies in the name of building a unionized game industry.