Not really much diff either way tbh
#pvp
elder crane
spare iron
Err sorry, I meant what would be the Fleet Comp of a pure French Fleet? Looking to change my defense fleet to one just to give people an easier time
elder crane
Just use whatever if you want to give ppl an easy time
Richi JB Gascan Alg Jeanne Sanrui for a "proper" full french fleet
simple basalt
In an Azuma, Yuki, Juneau comp, who holds the tears? TL says Gyro and Rudder are BiS on Azuma. Tears on Juneau would be over healing and I think Yuki would be the last one to die in the comp.
elder crane
Jun still holds cause no one else can fit it in, basically
naive dome
I give it to yukikaze personally
simple basalt
What am I taking out for either of them then? Toolkit or Torp Bulge?
naive dome
i use tears + fire extinguisher on her, tears basically replaces toolkit
simple basalt
Gotcha.
storm jewel
interesting i use boiler/fire ext on her
as she tends to stay alive for so long, but maybe tears is also the way
midnight heron
do u kno da wae
fossil yarrow
Dude
It's pretty much killing Juneau to waste heal before they could ever do lol
Also backline got really hurt with this team
But ofc
It's a glass cannon team
forest lake
yes 9k crit to backline can be laughed off easily
lofty yacht
Is it good Shigure without yukikaze ?
naive dome
that torpmeme team uses rainbow torp, right ?
gritty cove
The torpmeme is for defense optimally
Maybe in a year I can get fdg 30 and two rainbow cannons 
forest lake
black+rainbow dildo + 610mm for jint/noshi, rainbow quint/dildo/tears for naganami
naive dome
should I do 610mm+black/rainbow dildo on Juneau for offensive team, given how she dies relatively fast ?
lofty yacht
Could we consider Shigure a half way between yukikaze and javelin? (obv without yuki)
elder crane
@naive dome because she dies relatively fast you want defensive aux on her, delay it just that bit for more heal value
Not like she does any dmg anyway
fossil yarrow
Disappointed, but not surprised
storm jewel
midnight heron
3op5me
naive dome
does shinano's yellow skill work at all in pvp ?
storm jewel
it does, in the vid she activates blue skill on top and yellow skill bottom
if my google translate is correct
elder crane
Nice to see that kind of dmg output from Shinano
But that looks like some bs luck to me
First two matches Hiryuu lands 818, which is by no means guaranteed
Then match 3 Shinano lands all her dbs anyways since their vanguard decides to sit in one area kekw
On Warkai Amagi FdG
This shit, as Eri says, is why I question the team for defense
On offense you have Azuma+3 BB secs
On defense vs vanguard you have just Azuma lol
Hence torpmemes murdering it
midnight heron
welp sad to say pvp is officially fked with shinano
u dont even needa use he shells anymore
and u can still get ez wins
unreal storm
what did shinano do
midnight heron
u pretty much cant farm pvp anymore with halfassed fleets if u face anyone using namano
been resetting against dis 1 guy and i havent gotten a win once
its legit bs
idk if hes just lucky or his fleet is plain broken
dis is the only time i will call dis a legit gud fleet instead of "i lost cuz i procced less" or "his torpmeme fleet just doesnt die"
ykkz is pretty much useless here
and hes running presumably 457 with izumo gun
elder crane
don't have enough firepower vs vanguard yourself? lol
cause aurora is free kill for a good setup
midnight heron
ya how tf am i supposed to win dis with jun noshi ykkz
elder crane
what's your main
midnight heron
namagi formi
halfassed sure but i havent had dis much problem winning 1 match before
elder crane
Hmm
I suppose you're reliant on Nagato actually barraging Aurora then
unless you're running triples on her
then kek
midnight heron
even if she barrages shes protected by those 2 in front of her more often than not
and when dat happens and shinano launches ur vg is ded
elder crane
wait are you using crash dmg formi setup
midnight heron
idk wat exactly is crash dmg but i run pirate/cuda/her barrage plane
midnight heron
so what change to ryuusei? kek
elder crane
any TB-based CVs that can't effectively run ryuus is somewhat shafted right now
as is APCuda
midnight heron
well im not doing the cent formi setup so i cant ryuusei effectively
elder crane
maybe try running F6F yourself
or the new fighter
that might help vs shinano
if Formi is doing worse herself, at least make Shinano pay in dmg too
or enemy Hiryuu
Possibly even consider gasp Firebrand 
midnight heron
lul
elder crane
not like you're doing all that much crash dmg right now with the bug active 
at least compared to usual
midnight heron
maybe just change to 3 bb
gotta say tho i havent seen so many ryuuseis aiming for nagatoot before
and pretty much can 100-0 her without needing "lucky e"-type procs
elder crane
yeah, 6+2 Ryuus is 
with good base stats + all the buffs too
midnight heron
also wats ur thoughts on using ap shells on namagi when using shinano
dis guy kicks my ass with no he shells
granted azuma can burn but it wont cause as many burns
elder crane
457 on Nagato optionally, but idk on defense really
???? on Amagi since you want to spam barrage anyways, might as well use HE
midnight heron
iirc he was using (presumably) 457 (cuz i only saw 2 shots per salvo and hes using weapon skin) on amagi and i still got rekt even when some of his namagi's shots went for vg
its like u dont even need he anymoer
cursive mulch
have people tested whether namano or naga shinano hiryuu is better
elder crane
Hard to say esp since plane AA is currently bugged
Namano prolly favored for now cause of that?
Imo probably Nagato Shinano Hiryuu is favored, or potentially Warkai Shinano Hiryuu (snipe hiryuu down?)
cursive mulch
i was thinking nagato shinano hiryuu too. abit sad i dont have mlb shinano yet
elder crane
Oh and also some potential in running torpmemes with that setup too
unreal storm
what's the bug with plane aa?
elder crane
So, looks like with this event, we got another major bug (or intended change?) as is expected of AL devs at this point lol.
Plane-to-plane AA damage is currently much higher than it was before.
This means
bring any CV/Ls to ch13 and have an easy time of it! better get your runs in before it's patched! (if it is a bug)
References
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV12p4y1a7y5
fixed up the mtl:
Not sure why, but seems like after the update for this event, the damage of the aircraft carrier’s AA cannon has become abnormally high. You should know that PvP planes have 4x their regular HP, and shooting them down was almost impossible. Well, here, Enterprise alone blows up all their planes - I use her since Lucky E increases her plane AA damage too, and she can wipe out all the planes of two strike waves. I have a guess, maybe the damage formula has been changed. Both the enemy and our aircraft actually have AA value, and we didn't know before if this reduces plane-to-plane AA damage, since the code is super messy. My guess is, maybe AA stat no longer affects plane-to-plane damage anymore.
shy hazel
that means
forced cv meta rn
manjuu and their "quality" checks
they make sure its china quality
stable dawn
That bug is nuts. I can actually clear W13 maps with a level 100 fleet with only +6 equips
shy hazel
elder crane
I think if they fix, they'll probably nerf ch13 at same time if a lot of ppl are using the bug
crude mortar
just called it feature
elder crane
Anyways it seems like most ppl are happy about this change
Everyone who wanted the challenge already did ch13
All that's left is ppl who are getting trolled by ch13 drops or casuals
elder crane
PvP does get kinda fucked though
crude mortar
how so
elder crane
Run 1 CV and that can greatly reduce effectiveness of all enemy CV
So 2 CV/3CV is dead
crude mortar
which
elder crane
And 0 CV as good as ever
crude mortar
how 1 cv fucking 2 cv
cuz from what Im doing atm i use 2cv and 1cv feels like not exists
elder crane
Smack all your planes down to low HP is my thoughts
crude mortar
its not smacking low hp
elder crane
So then your two CVs will be doing much lower crash dmg
crude mortar
their cv doesn't exists
crash dmg isn't lowering at all tbh
very little difference
while enemy cv dmg become 0
absolutely 0
example
elder crane
I ran Hiryuu/Formi with Cudas and it did so little crash vs enemy Hiryuu setup
elder crane
That's cause it's enty
crude mortar
wait
elder crane
Enty is special
crude mortar
wait
its like this
if
your 2 cv
lauch
before their cv
your cv's plane
will be on above enemy head
and their plane
instant trading
with your plane
but
your plane already drop the bomb
elder crane
Also how do you get enty to launch first lol
elder crane
Hiryuu loadout is faster, higher reload stat, and Nagato buff
crude mortar
starting to summon plane
if enty proc x2 enty dont care who launch first
is it time for skyrocket
elder crane
Anyways
Here's the problem
CV isn't even meta anymore
And as much as I shill her
Hiryuu isn't top meta anymore
3 BB/C is
And this change does nothing vs them
crude mortar
wait til plebs running shinano 120
elder crane
Though that might be a thing, if Shinano is good
Cause Enty hard counters Shinano rn
Though ofc you suffer to 3 BB/C as usual
crude mortar
elder crane
Rock-paper-scissors is a pretty meta imo, hopefully it doesn't come to that
elder crane
That just forces more work and means you can't wall plebs
crude mortar
plebs wont get pass the wall anyway
you can put nagato hiryu shinano with torpmeme and they wont get pass that
crude mortar
shhhh
elder crane
Easiest pleb setup
elder crane
Every pleb and their mother runs enty already
crude mortar
yo
elder crane
Much to my dismay for certain teams
crude mortar
yes
elder crane
*if it's enty
crude mortar
elder crane
Literally Enty alone can mostly wipe out two CV of plane not from enty
elder crane
That better be a 457 warkai
Then sure, I think
crude mortar
yes
naive dome
if hiryuu survived through the vanguard fight without proccing final counter, she can pretty much solo the entire enemy backline
crude mortar
its hiryu shinano
sour oasis
I swear I just saw a 16k+ defense fleet on Avrora. I wasn't paying too much attention to what it was beyond "16k and I have 10 minutes, nope"
elder crane
Yes there's like 1 guy with dev30 FdG and two 457s
sour oasis
bleak osprey
https://youtu.be/vh_PL7p8WLA
@crude mortar whats the point tho? we still have to wait a few more days before all her skills are l10 tho no?
bleak osprey
ye, im at 10/9/1 myself
crude mortar
no
faming 10/10/6+
*famine
he do skill book 24/7
even I 10/10/6
no life people you know
bleak osprey
ye, im behind by a couple books
crude mortar
I use uss vg I dont take plane dmg since forever but for other vg
you know
for ijn vg might explode from shinano
bleak osprey
ye, tho honestly i see shinano as more of offense rather than defense
final counter still wins on defense imo
crude mortar
I had essex and my vg aa 350+
bleak osprey
great for stalling
crude mortar
if they dont fix plane bug
I dont think final counter is good
hiryu deal like 0 dmg now
cuz plane aa bug
bleak osprey
crude mortar
naive dome
what AA bug ?
midnight heron
lmao i finally see wat u guys mean by planes r fked rn
my formi launched right after enemy hiryuu launched + countered simultaneously, i only saw 2 planes approaching his hiryuu tf
crude mortar
haloisted
midnight heron
bruh stop misusing da trademark u clearly know da game is bugged rn
crude mortar
its bugged on the top of haloisted
midnight heron
wats annoying is its giving whoever has more planes in cv battles auto win
upper sparrow
midnight heron
ive said before if they didnt encourage pvp farming i wudnt be lvling there
remove exp gain entirely ¯_(ツ)_/¯
ashen lion
trail temple
I'll send that to first place, it'll make him feel good
royal oyster
lexington less of a joke this time
midnight heron
must be nice seeing none of ur payloads even reaching the enemy kek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY2cwx-IYYg
deep glacier
This will never happen again
trail temple
wew
royal oyster
wait top score this time for everyone was just 2598? tfw high point lexington = low point avrora
hot creek
final Sandy t3 btw, just so my boi Discred gets some credit lol.
empty grove
silent ocean
so ive never seen this before the ai thing, guessing its a trap or ment to help out newer players ?
mint hornet
I think it happens when you log in too soon when the servers reset
If you fight it you don't get points
silent ocean
didnt login until after reset
mint hornet
Hm not sure then. I have seen it happen to others before though
silent ocean
yeah figured thats what will happen just means i get cucked out of a potential rusher
ah well
trail temple
Had it happen when I won a fight on reset so I wasn't awarded points and pushed me into the new season
sterile bobcat
Is hyuuga kai usable in any scenario?
the pinned tier list mentions her but I haven't ever seen anybody talk about her so 
trail temple
She's usable, but dated
naive dome
wow sandy top is even lower than lexington top?
foggy spire
It's a hold-over from an era before Hiryuu kai
coral wren
yeah sandy doesnt really do pvp
theres like 1000 players who get over 1000 points id say
if you forget like 10-15 pvps theres just an unclimbable mountain to go up where you cant gain any ranks at all
sour oasis
All 3 of the top on avrora dropped matches
The bottom 10 of EoS 100 is pretty high. The floor is rising.
shy hazel
aaaaaaaa
why is al's devteam so shit when it comes to quality check
why are planes so dumb right now
pvp meta harassment?
royal oyster
lexington top could have been 2601 but my luck ran out and took 3 -1s at the end
nocturne tendon
So, I heard this new plane is pretty strong in PvP, is that right?
midnight heron
idk man planes r bugged rn so its hard to tell
storm jewel
what is that bug ?
elder crane
So, looks like with this event, we got another major bug (or intended change?) as is expected of AL devs at this point lol.
Plane-to-plane AA damage is currently much higher than it was before.
This means
bring any CV/Ls to ch13 and have an easy time of it! better get your runs in before it's patched!
FINAL NOTICE: THIS IS BEING PATCHED THURSDAY OCT 1
References
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV12p4y1a7y5
fixed up the mtl:
Not sure why, but seems like after the update for this event, the damage of the aircraft carrier’s AA cannon has become abnormally high. You should know that PvP planes have 4x their regular HP, and shooting them down was almost impossible. Well, here, Enterprise alone blows up all their planes - I use her since Lucky E increases her plane AA damage too, and she can wipe out all the planes of two strike waves. I have a guess, maybe the damage formula has been changed. Both the enemy and our aircraft actually have AA value, and we didn't know before if this reduces plane-to-plane AA damage, since the code is super messy. My guess is, maybe AA stat no longer affects plane-to-plane damage anymore.
Note it's being patched very soon
New fighter is being patched too
coral wren
Dont notice a difference if you already have sandy 
storm jewel
honestly
just let them fly
i run 3 bb backline 3 pepega aa vanguard and no problem with planes whatsover
but then on defense who know, problly lost 99% of the time
sour oasis
CV AA gun.. So Illustrious, Unicorn, Bogue, etc get this buff?
spring kestrel
does shinano replace anyone?
hot creek
cant say much yet until we fully test her out
crude mortar
she very good vs azuma
sour oasis
Looks like she could replace Amagi when it comes to -arrage. (Or just use both IJN event BB and add Shinano instead of FdG/WS/Hiryu for a 3rd Vg-deleting barrag-)
cinder crater
So how's shinano for pvp
elder crane
very good
just how good, who knows yet, esp with the bug active
almost certainly joins top meta
possibly pushes a few teams down lower too
cinder crater
I keep forgetting what her skills are lmao
The only things I remember are the weak butterfly barrage and the plane barrage on airstrike
elder crane
all you need to know is she's as tanky as FdG, does more damage than any other CV (and no rng proc skills), and boosts sakura CV by 15% avi and 15% accuracy
rough cobalt
ah
im stuck using nakaga until i get somethign better
so im looking for the best plane equip
upper sparrow
Just use cuda
elder crane
818 Akagi Ryuusei Kaga is also an option for them
past egret
as tanky as FDG
WSKai can’t deal with her? @elder crane
What’s the solution to Shinano comp atm and what’s the bug
plush fable
is vf-17 still bis for hiryuu or one of the newer fighters?
midnight heron
plane aa is either dealing shit tons of dmg or the formula is broken so planes die too fast now
when previously they barely even get shot down
and consequently cv battles now just boil down to who has better plane aa/more planes/launches first
cuz if u launch 1-2s slower than opponent
ur planes dont even get chance to drop their payload
they just get instamurdered
upper sparrow
Isnt blue said AA bug already got patched
shy hazel
next patch
right now not yet
al devs making sure their quality checks are china made
elder crane
@past egret
No clear method to deal w her currently
Unlike FdG, she doesn't even drop in dmg if you smack her a bit with warkai
Maybe Namaryuu torpmemes could do well vs her. No, not because her dred doesn't work vs torp, it's just that like FdG, you don't really want to give the team time to trade vs you cause that's not gonna end well; you want to kill them ASAP.
If it's Nagato-Shinano-Hiryuu, the lack of amagi makes the torpburst stronger and maybe that's enough to win; if it's Namano (Namagi-Shinano), maybe Hiryuu can carry your ass to a win at the end after you trade out quickly
Remains to be seen ofc, especially since rn plane AA is bugged
Currently I'd unironically rec Enty if you're having trouble with Shinano
gritty cove
Might just do the summons up to 200 to save a ur bulin
shy hazel
soon
leaden solar
how good is shinano?
sour oasis
Very
static gull
In general, she is helping
storm jewel
helping hiryuu 
coarse hearth
Based on WiS: A Barrager Supercarrier (higher-than-normal plane count), extreme Aviation DPS, enemy damage/DPS debuff, IJN carrier support, DD support.
Basically, she great
But miss her not end of us
If we know what we doing
We still could clear all game content without her (except for her limited chat border)
Unless waifu reason
naive dome
i think he wanted to know how good she is in pvp
static gull
We still could clear all game content.
Really, great. It is the most sarcastic sentence
sour oasis
An all IJN event back line (Nagato Amagi Shimano) is a triple barrage, great for eliminating torp meme vanguard...
sweet venture
Torpmeme is immortal
elder crane
That just sounds like torps trade out too quickly and then Hiryuu is an issue, personally
sour oasis
Well, if you wipe their torp-meme vg while your VG is alive, their Hiryu is not an issue (unless they have defenders who have baguette guns to delete your weakened vg)
META!
cinder crater
does azuma main tank?
crude mortar
amber prawn
Is there a recent pvp tier list?
upper sparrow
Check pin
Shinano still not on tier list, still not have proper testing at least here
gritty cove
I don't think the tier list has pr3 stuff
rocky shadow
I think most pr3 ship is for pve
cinder crater
Pr3 is bad for pvp as a whole
Cheshire is a slow CA with low surface damage and no support
Mainz also kinda slow, doesn't bring a whole lot besides generalist CL kit
Champagne too fragile and only 1 mgm
Odin gets rekt due to her positioning
Drake no one knows yet, but probably not too good cuz gun CA
gritty cove
I meant guns mostly
dire stream
the BB gun is just worse 406 skc and CA gun are useless since CAs are useless
id expect the DD gun to be useless too since its normal
gritty cove
The dd gun is good
dire stream
i guess its slight improvement for ykkz and thats about it
gritty cove
No, it's slower than twin 100
dire stream
yeah by amount thats irrelevant
gritty cove
dire stream
waow
amber prawn
So rich + amagi is the meta?
I thought they both want flag?
And what about fried? Does she want flag too?
dire stream
how did you get to that conclusion
dire stream
and in pvp flagship spot isnt nearly as important as pve
static gull
Guys, help. I have 848 points , so after win I ll get +15 or +12?
ebon kraken
tropic dagger
Should I switch out for juneau or hiryu
dire stream
id expect hiryuu to be way better than taihou and juneau to be a lot more useful than kita
frail orbit
@tropic dagger swap taihoe for hiryuu
Hoe dmg redux is not against wakai shelling
Which is kinda derp
And juneau is just a must
trim bough
for centaur is this good?
gritty cove
Pirate fighters are better and guessing you're not trying to time your airstrikes, just do homing beacon and aviation fuel/steering gear
trim bough
cinder crater
If I'm using pearl on noshiro, what other aux do I equip
crude mortar
boiler
upper sparrow
Boiler or rudder, personal preference
hoary saddle
is shinano/nagato/amagi better than namagi/fdg?
frail orbit
No testing yet to make sure of that
But 1 thing that could be sure is the fact that Namagi tends to be better as wall defense
elder crane
@tropic dagger
If you got Shinano, just worry about Juneau as Kita replacement
Taihou is much more serviceable over Hiryuu than Kita is over Juneau, and then you can just slot Shinano in later
static gull
What is approximately highest score for now in PvP? 970?
hot creek
Im at 926 with 10 charges atm.
topaz stag
What's a good alternative MG for Shell BB if I don't have 457? Do I stick with mk6?
next garden
Uh, what kind of traits am I looking in in a pvp vanguard
proper sorrel
tanky vanguard that can also help assist your main fleet while also dealing some damage
coral wren
cough azuma cough
upper sparrow
Just use vg on pin tierlist 4head
coral wren
Aquire 500 ur blueprints ez
cinder crater
How come my warspite is usually the only one who can manage to outdamage azuma
midnight heron
cuz its ws
elder crane
@topaz stag Stick w mk6 unless it's warkai would be my rec, for warkai run an AP (Champ gun next best after 457, Izumo and Litt guns are sidegrade) if the extra dmg means you kill something faster w it (default is "yes" for Warkai and HMS with warkai)
static gull
Anyone: ...
Shinano: vroooom......sssssssss... Oh, did I kill you best fleet by mistake?... Sincerest apologies
Btw, why vroooom like a car if she says tchiku-tsaki
upper sparrow
silent ocean
drunk carrier be like ♿ lol
static gull
Shit, you definitely have nuts
sterile bobcat
@heady root what are you running on Enty?
That almost makes me wanna use her again, but I'm having too much fun in my HMS comp
past egret
heady root
@sterile bobcat standard pve gear. Sea Hornet. Diver. Ryuusei. Two gold cats
upper sparrow
Tbh i would say that enemy fleet vg shipwrite encountered not used an optimized equipment for pvp tho
Probably about 2 oxytorp on vg
Frail af
blazing scroll
I mean using two catas in pvp is a meme anyway
crude jetty
what does scatter mean here? also what is type 3 ammo? like H explosive?
damn I am confused now .. I should just wait for hood gun for Nagato
elder crane
That gun fires birdshot ammo
Irl that ammo was meant for AA, but just like ingame, is pretty useless for that too
BBs snipe, so imagine sniping with shotgun ammo lol
The actual upgrade for the purple twin 410 mm is the PR2 gold twin 406 mm
sour oasis
Does the type 98 delayer do anything for the confetti gun?
elder crane
Who knows
Even if it did, unless it bugged the ammo, it wouldn't make a difference
crude mortar
sour oasis
Took me awhile to read that. EN player and all.
coral wren
This makes me angry
upper sparrow
amber prawn
I don’t have juneau, who can I use to improve my vanguard?
Azuma is being built (dev 21, gonna be a while till she is usable)
sour oasis
Jintsu also is an alternative
elder crane
She's okay but you'd want Hiryuu for full torps setup
tropic dagger
Whats the minimum level juneau needs to have when going against meta 120 fleets
Mine is only at 99
gritty cove
115+
static gull
Mine is 100 and it's enough
naive dome
there's meta 120 fleet and there's meta 120 fleets stacked with rainbow torp and 457
static gull
It's not good at all, but its what I got
dire stream
you have to have some DD guns
static gull
there's meta 120 fleet and there's meta 120 fleets stacked with rainbow torp and 457
@naive dome consummate fleet
naive dome
what do you mean ?
static gull
I meant that meta fleet with rainbow 🌈 equip is beyond average meta and much better
you have to have some DD guns
@dire stream ? I have only this, but don't know will it work with her lvl, her role is to buff , if she deals 1500 dmg it's very good
dire stream
for you her role is to die early and waste heals
and DD guns have better dps than CL guns, that CL gun isnt even that good in the first place
static gull
It's my tactic against everyone) esp too hard Vs the same fleet
sour oasis
Sometimes I wonder if there should be an anti-meta tutorial for newbies.
It's like the tier list and fleet building, but with weaknesses.
Wait, that's already there.
Flex defense fleets are why we have dead lists.
naive dome
i always assume people with super strong defense fleet to be asshole
static gull
Foxes + warspite and torpedo-maniacs
I played with this fleet for a long time and, in general, the problem was with Nagamaryu
dire stream
so your problem was the actually good fleets
static gull
) but for newbie it was great fleet
dire stream
im just saying that beating some random fleet with no real idea behind doesnt mean anything
sour oasis
Nagato Amagi Hiryu is just half the fleet. Who's up front.
crude mortar
hiryu torp meme filtering newbs
sour oasis
static gull
+9?
Nagato Amagi Hiryu is just half the fleet. Who's up front.
@sour oasis good example
naive dome
+9 means that you picked a fight with someone at lower rank than you, thus get less score (9 score)
im a genshin late boomer
because i keep missing like 5 fights every season
static gull
Its not like I am against genshin,but there are lots of mmorpg, but people are playing in single player game
I just don't get why it's happening
dire stream
who cares about mmo stuff
static gull
sour oasis
Torpmeme front is not that bad. One solution is to have a superior tanking/dodging VG. With some luck, a French back line + Warspite can knock out the torpedo ships, WS can KO Amagi then Nagato, which leaves Hiryu alone against hopefully at least 1 of your VG ships.
crude mortar
skunk torp meta
static gull
I have heard,that beguette-fleet is one of the strongest in attack
sour oasis
Well, French back line have that preloaded volley. They can instantly delete the light armored torp-meme if they aim right.
dire stream
they can also do opposite of that
sour oasis
Oh yes. This is totally RNG like praying for Lucky E and Rainbow Operation.
But it is faster RNG than using foxes and hoping to punch through.
By faster, I mean 'in 30s they're either dead or you're restarting'
The danger of a torp-meme defense is that their pre-load can swerve past your front and wipe your back in the first 30s. It's RNG, but try to avoid that with more than just resets (build a VG with torpedo bulges and/or boilers)
static gull
If only I'd brassiereless dev30 azuma....
I'd have been at top
sour oasis
If only I'd brassiereless dev30 azuma....
frail orbit
Wtf
sour oasis
Well, no. Torp-meme actually eats brassiereless dev 30 Azuma. She makes a pretty big target.
elder crane
Just lead with something else ffs
Juneau lead is fine, not a big deal if she dies early since they don't have Jun to begin with
elder crane
If your lead jun doesn't die, then she heals back all the torp dmg dealt when she dies
That's why having no enemy ships get killed when enemy runs Jun is for torpteam 
gritty cove
I've now switched to ap cannons and doing pvp is scary without hiryuu
static gull
I take my words back about baguette 🥖🥖 fleet. It's not only one of best fleets in attack, its pain in the ass when its in defence fleet and moreover with torpedo-maniacs
To overcome this fleet I restarted about 5 times
dire stream
i dont think i have ever resetted against any fleet with preload salvo
sour oasis
You might have run into Bluerendar's FFNF fleet 
dire stream
why bother with anything when you can just 457 fdg
trail temple
Speaking of which @elder crane, are you doing your exercises any time soon?
sour oasis
They jumped from 600 into the top 200 just a few hours ago.
elder crane
I'm 5/10 and waiting on this shitter to climb myself
33 points over me, just one more ffs
sour oasis
At least that ain't me 
naive dome
I bet that shitter guy is already out of exercise
sour oasis
Feel like I should pull an Erika and dump all my tickets. We'd all be jostling for top 100 at once. Good chance we'll be in each other's lists.
static gull
u also on sandy?
elder crane
The guy climbed after the reset, so that's that at least
static gull
he-he boyy
cinder crater
What the fuck is bra-less azuma
upper sparrow
naive dome
azuma with no torp bulge?
static gull
No bra azuma?
@frail orbit my mistake, i though she is without bra because of bulges on her chest
frail orbit
static gull
static gull
will 2x ryusei on shinano increase her damage to 400k?
how much damage she can deal in theory?
sour oasis
||'Not as much as Ranger'||
static gull
lol
quartz scaffold
Is that the torp bote daily
crude mortar
elder crane
@static gull
Since this is torpboat daily, slot 1 DBs are better due to splash dmg
Idk about how the radii work out, but quite possibly BTD-1 is better
Or maybe Hornet is optimal due to load time
small cypress
Best guns for nagato?
sour oasis
@small cypress It's a top-3 choice that focused on volley power given her under 50/50 barrage rate.
elder crane
Alternatively
Twin 381 (hoodgun) to maximize potential barrage timing
Twin 457 if you're feeling extra lucky on being able to smack enemy main fleet with it
naive dome
namashin is stronger than namaryu. right?
midnight heron
namano sounds and looks better idk if the plane bug is fixed yet so hard to say ¯_(ツ)_/¯
coral wren
Hi guyz new here is there a cancerous fleet build i should be on the lookout?
midnight heron
anything dats namagi
proper sorrel
nvm new player
proper sorrel
azuma and juneau and yuki don't exist
midnight heron
azuma feels iffy on offense cuz ur 1st main gun volley can sometimes straightup shoot at water for no reason at start of battle
sour oasis
@coral wren new to pvp or game on general.
What KanEri put up is endgame cancer. For game beginners, add Enterprise to back ships you don't want to see, Azuma for front ships because she's a huge HP sponge, and maybe Eldredge to front ships that can drag a fight.
sour oasis
Kanzaki Erika
For a new player, Exercise/PvP should just be a place to get 'free xp' (even when you lose your ships get xp). Weigh if you'll get more xp from losing to a high level fleet vs beating a low level fleet. Collect merit to buy stuff from Merit shop. Eventually you'll want to beat high level defense fleet and win those merit prizes for placing top-1000 etc. And if you're really try-hard, you'll want to maximize ladder win-points to show off.
Unless you want a perfect win-loss record, then it's all uphill.
@coral wren Also note your defense fleet gets no xp. It's there to show your flex and help/troll other players.
coral wren
I see
lethal lark
there's a tierlist in the pins which goes over some common meta ships and fleets and how ships are geared for pvp, it's worth a read
hasn't been updated for a while though
sour oasis
Neither has pvp 
keen obsidian
Had a bad streak of battles that takes hella resets even I'm up 2-3k fleet power
coral wren
Guys, what's the best aux equipment for Belfast in PvP?
blazing scroll
Tear + torp bulge should do fine
sour oasis
If your Tear is on another ship, Boiler + Rudder also work. Belfast should have an HE gun and take point/tank spot. She sets down smoke (good luck getting your fleet to stay inside), starts fires, and maybe soaks up some damage.
I wanna say Belfast is more defensive than offensive in PvP; she's a trick ship to prolong your vanguard's life.
coral wren
I see... Well, these are my equipment sets for her, is the third one the best choice in PvP?
sour oasis
Yes
sour oasis
Against torpedo-meme defense fleets I might put in the bulge over the rudder, but I still like to gamble on the 2% invincibility.
coral wren
Could be, I think it depends on your other vanguard ships and your opponent's fleet as well.
Thank you. ^^
sour oasis
Against torp-meme, Port definitely needs bulge and/or rudder though. (And might not make up for Smoke vs planes & shells)
blazing scroll
Bel smoke is trash anyway
It's a niche against akagi
Portland has dmg reduc for your entire fleet
sour oasis
It's smoke so yeah, but what else is useful?
blazing scroll
On portland you wanna go bulge + rudder most of the time
sour oasis
And Port's skill is still RNG on a timer.
sour oasis
I usually go Rudder + Camo for extra evasion (but torp memes are now extra scary)
coral wren
YALL WANT SOME T O R P E D O?
proper sorrel
freaking amagi fdg spite fleet made me use barracuda on my enterprise
also +3 this reset 
im actually doing good this season 
just realised my noshiro wasn't using any aux
safe meteor
static gull
As for me, shinano is very good in pvp
I also had a very painful experience against this fleet
elder crane
If you want better belfast, use JdA
royal oyster
I think all the people who usually do testing are too busy playing genshin
sour oasis
Shimano just another barrage boat
naive dome
what plane type should shinano use in her 1st slot?
elder crane
TB usually
Helldiver for some setups iirc
amber prawn
Help, who should I use for vanguard if my azuma is not fully developed and juenau is not available?
elder crane
Noshiro Ykkz are top picks too
amber prawn
Give me some good options. I am already using noshiro
I am using noshiro and lolikaze
Should I put amamiya in or two destroyers too many?
elder crane
for stuff that's okay, JdA, Sanrui with Richi
erm
sheff/Bel/Sandykai aren't terrible
or ofc you could do full memes and run torps setup
kitakaze is a no
amber prawn
How about chevpayev?
elder crane
chappy is better probably? at least she helps stop ykkz from being too slippery and knocks on torpDD setups a bit
amber prawn
I’m using roon atm, I guess I’ll switch her out for chevpayev
elder crane
I'd probably rec you just torps setup it though, if you have enough black torpaux and rainbow torps
also don't forget that levels are super important, even more so in PvP than PvE
amber prawn
I have a few rainbow torp
elder crane
I mean the magnetic torps, not the aux btw
amber prawn
Let me check
elder crane
she has one of the worst torps in the game
elder crane
Nimi torps are down there too, though a bit better than Roon iirc
better stats and does have preload
amber prawn
Yykz then
elder crane
Kita's torps are fairly solid
ykkz's torps are good yeah
not amazing since no buffs, but still IJN torpDD statline
amber prawn
My pvp line up are rich - amagi - war kai and yykz-noshiro-chevpayev then
elder crane
Sounds acceptable
you'll want to swap chappy for Juneau eventually, but that's probably good enough to take wins off any team at the same ship levels
amber prawn
How about seattle or mainz?
upper sparrow
Both of them suck on pvp
Pr ship who at least a bit decent on pvp is sanrui & nep
Fdg & azuma are the queen
Other? No 
Oh yeah monarch is good too, especially with hms comp
elder crane
Seattle is basically around sanrui/nep performance really
her bad rep is just cause she released later with Azuma, so there was never a point in using her in particular
Mainz has CA speed so
Roon 2.0 for PvP purposes
sour oasis
I use Ibuki to a degree of success in torp-meme set-up. That double pre-load can give a big starting edge if a barrage is coming.
amber prawn
I’m not developing fried, since I figure it will take too long. Gunning for a seattle atm. Tho I wonder if I should switch to getting myself a monarch
elder crane
Ibuki is pretty good for torpmemes, and is surprisingly okay for just standard setups too
static gull
Mainz has CA speed so
Roon 2.0 for PvP purposes
@elder crane roon 2.0? 3.0? 3.0865457?
Is she much better?
gaunt rock
Hi for BB secondary do i want AP/HE guns or guns that add good hit/fp stats ?
gaunt rock
kk thx
sterile bobcat
Is it possible to do a semi-decent torp meme defense fleet if I only have 1 black torp?
elder crane
@static gull
Probably better than Roon but def not enough to matter
If you have only 1 rainbow torp and 1 black torp, can still be not awful, probably
I'd probably go Noshiro Naga Aurora? Or something of the sort
cursive surge
Hello i started play pvp more siriusly and need some help i want to built a HMS pvp fleet this is my actual fleet
proper sorrel
for monarch, just swap out the triple 155 for mk17 and swap white shell for rudder
cursive surge
Mk17?
proper sorrel
for warkai, that works fine tbh, though it's better to use mk17 instead of triple 155 and use hsfcr/sg radar + rudder
triple 152mm mk 17
also for warkai main gun, twin 457 > 406mle > triple 410 i'd assume
for enterprise, i'd swap the VT18 for ryuusei/barracuda, and give her aux avigas and rudder/or homing
as for swiftsure, she's more of a boss fleet ship in pve, and not good for pvp
cursive surge
I dont think i have mk17
proper sorrel
swiftsure is currently using a mk17 on that pic
proper sorrel
you're not going to be using swiftsure in pvp so might as well
cursive surge
Sirius is better than swift for pvp?
proper sorrel
give sandy the twin 114 that yukikaze is using, then give the single 138.6 to juneau, give yukikaze a single 76mm aa gun/twin 100
sirius is better if you're using multiple carriers i guess? but she's not any better if she just blows up instantly
swap enterprise with amagi maybe also, assuming you have her leveled
proper sorrel
HMS Amagi
HMS Monarch
HMS Warkai
HMS Azuma
HMS Juneau
HMS Yukikaze
proper sorrel
i just en'd hard
warspite/monarch/centaur/neptune(cheshire/drake once they're leveled)/juneau/yukikaze
use enterprise if you don't have centaur actually
if you're going up against a akagi/kaga fleet, swap the main tank for belfast
then again, warkai monarch is probably already enough to throw off the entire enemy fleet
stable dawn
Why not Formi Centaur
proper sorrel
i spy with my gigantic anime eyes formidable
cursive surge
well i want a full HMS pvp fleet
stable dawn
oh rip you don't have dioship
cursive surge
for now my backline going to be monarch/warkai/centaur dont have formidable 😦
stable dawn
proper sorrel
you'll want juneau and yukikaze on frontline at least
cursive surge
i dont
cursive surge
belfast edinburg or neptune for tank?
proper sorrel
neptune tbh
stable dawn
Is Javelin even viable for torpmemes 
proper sorrel
no?
proper sorrel
fortune is meh, but she was old pvp meta
yukikaze is just straight up better version of her
cursive surge
i want only HMS
stable dawn
tbh there just aren't enough good hms vg ships
stable dawn
cursive surge
belfast aurora and sheffield?
proper sorrel
yeah that works
cursive surge
aurora is good against torpmeme
aurora skills
ncreases own damage dealt to Destroyers, transport vessels, torpedo boats, and suicide boats by 10% (20%).
While alive in fleet, decreases the Evasion Rate of all enemy Destroyers and Light Cruisers by 10% (20%).
static gull
What a rich shikikan
stable dawn
smh not even ringed
stable dawn
cursive surge
This going to be my Hms pvp fleet until get formidable
static gull
cursive surge
i could use neptune belfast cheshire 😄 trio vg maid
static gull
when in battle a ship calls you couch-potato is really sad
static gull
dd?
storm jewel
Dido also like it too
tropic dagger
How does odin with 610mm sound in pvp? It has enough range to rip into the enemy backline because magtorps stop right before hitting
elder crane
The problem with odin is but why more or less
Doesn't do anything OP enough
Half the time vanguard will intercept it, and generally you don't even want to focus the flagship unit
elder crane
Yep
elder crane
The main benefit is to have a centered barrage/torps and be closer for secondaries
The former of which isn't even a positive in PvP
elder crane
She has inbuilt secondaries
elder crane
Really good ones with extended range
crude mortar
built in gun usually do baby damage isn't it
elder crane
It's a CL gun and a DD gun with much better than usual stats, 100% armor mod on all, and the DD gun has, 90 range was it?
65 on the CL gun
And her positioning is closer
crude mortar
gl gunning down azuma
elder crane
You can check CN wiki for exact stats
elder crane
She's ~10-15 range in front of where flag is
Not particularly close tbh, just a bit closer
elder crane
Meh, those torps would've hit flagship anyways probably
elder crane
7126 HP at 120/100 and 20% dmg reduction, should be pretty okay for tanking
elder crane
Anyways that's really not her issue
She's not particularly vulnerable or anything, or doesn't do an important BB thing or whatnot
It's that she really doesn't have an OP gimmick for PvP
And everything needs OP gimmick to be viable in PvP
crude mortar
opness is the standard in pvp
upper cove
midnight heron
at the same time ws ignores her defensive position
coral wren
Why is Reppu better than Pirate Squad in PvP? Also, I'm using Taihou + Nagato + Shinano (I don't have Amagi), is it a good idea to use a Swordfish on Taihou to support Shinano's Ryuuseis?
Last question, is Aviation Fuel + Homing Beacon a great aux combo on both of them?
storm jewel
reppu flies faster => dead bait to vanguard aa
crude mortar
implying ijn vg can shootdown shit
storm jewel
crude mortar
candid sluice
Is there a replacement for nagato/Amagi in fleets? I missed both events
candid sluice
Ok so wait until they’re in archives I guess
coral wren
Sooo... 👀
sour oasis
Oh, FdG can be gotten without event ships now?
Also the game still has bugged Hornet fighter?
royal oyster
it's possible to get the tech points for fdg without event ships, but it requires rolling a lot of the perma ones and a bunch of 120s
not really practical tbh
worthy cave
What’s the best backline for PvP? FdG Warkai Shinano?
storm jewel
u dont need to invest 8 months into FdG to win the fight
any standard meta shiet will win u the fight
worthy cave
I still win every pvp, but that’s not the question, I’m just wondering what the best backline is
proper sorrel
amagi fdg warkai/shinano/hiryuu yeah
if you're using shinanao or hiryuu i'd just use nagato over fdg imo
shy hazel
shinanope
proper sorrel
shina
trail temple
Shi-reee-reee
Can almost write lyrics to a deathcore song with that
crude mortar
shi ||ne filthy casual non meta user||
static gull
static gull
Shi-reee-reee
Can almost write lyrics to a deathcore song with that
@trail temple shinano da opa shina shinanai
trail temple
Oh dear
amber prawn
Helena retrofit or chapayev is more fitting?
worn warren
Good pvp fleet??
trail temple
Your backline is fine
(Although nakaga fleets are probably a bit dated)
Belfast is good against mirror comps but outside of that there are better options. Prinz is (sadly) a big fat meme and z23 is surpassed by better options (e.g. yukikaze)
static gull
Prinz shouldn't fight, she should be near shikikan on cold evenings
red nexus
trail temple
Prinz shouldn't fight, she should be near shikikan on cold evenings
At all times more like
hot creek
kek, nakaga in 2020. Yeah, I guess 'its fine" if you're content with not being able to beat any meta fleets.
elder crane
@candid sluice
If you got Richi, you can use some french substitutes
Richi JB Hiryuu is pretty solid, for example
Nakaga is like
You 100% have the ships to make a better fleet
Even Nagato Hiryuu Souryuu is better
midnight heron
after 1hr of resets i am doubting the "use amagi to snipe xxx" even works at all
elder crane
Amagi doesn't snipe shit
She can sorta help snipe a bit
And somewhat focuses opposite ship
midnight heron
yea i get it
but i still find it ridiculous that when i place amagi vs amagi, i lose more than if i place amagi vs fdg
elder crane
But targeted snipe is basically reserved to warkai
And snipe, maaaaybe 457 FdG can claim that too
Yeah you don't focus amagi there
You focus FdG
Knock her down below 80% so she doesn't hit as hard
And eventually kill her
Sure, it means their team overall slightly tankier, but they're doing less dmg cause of it
midnight heron
ic
elder crane
Especially since now most run amagi defensively
midnight heron
nah dis guy was running offensive
elder crane
With warkai/fdg or both, amagi isn't doing all that much of the dmg output
midnight heron
i swear his amagi barrage 1 shot my amagi from 30%hp or smth
even when i switched to rudder sg
midnight heron
not doing dat lul
elder crane
Just VH/rudder her smh
Let warkai carry your dmg instead
midnight heron
not running ws now tho
elder crane
What are you running
midnight heron
nama cent lul
cinder crater
richy warkai amagi or amagi warkai hiryuu
cinder crater
noshiro azuma ykkz
amber prawn
Who is a better option for pvp? Chapayev or Helena?
noshiro azuma ykkz
@cinder crater your vg and main are identical to me
Except my azuma is under dev 30 so I’m using chevpayev
crude mortar
warspite
cinder crater
I use Azuma at dev25 and she works just fine
amber prawn
My azuma is dev 21
cinder crater
Oh yeah then using chapayev is probably better then
midnight heron
nice rng game now go fk urself
static gull
Is it new meta? An old one. "Bang"
static gull
Akagi akagi-rock Smol-kagi
trail temple
Make Wasde great again
dire stream
sour oasis
Waesded
midnight heron
wasd still gud tho if sd procs with 457
proper sorrel
why saratoga in pvp
coral wren
I have no more good CVs besides her and my meta IJN CVs, but I'm not using them until Nagato is strong enough.
blazing scroll
She's pretty fragile tho
elder crane
I see no rudder and that concerns me
Given that all her bombs are dumped on vanguard, the collab event discount SG radar is good too
You don't lose edmg vs CL, and you gain edmg vs ykkz
And get 15 evasion
amber prawn
Someone told me cv are useless in pvp, aside from hiryuu
elder crane
They're not optimal, that's for sure
Useless, nah
They just don't work as well as other options for the most part
glossy meteor
storm jewel
like she has sth to do w it ?
naive dome
lmao the shinano's name "Overrated"
elder crane
She's pretty damn sturdy though
Found someone w her maxed and presumably rudder on her
Took like almost a minute of warkai 457 focus, and he wasn't even running Juneau
warkai-sama carry me
She doesn't even reach these numbers vs Juneau teams normally, I think
I should try out JdA for Nagato setups too
She's really good at keeping Azuma alive, I think
Or maybe that's just Richi killing their vanguard faster
naive dome
nagato hiryuu shinano is a huge pain in the ass imo
blazing scroll
nagato hiryuu shinano is a huge pain in the ass imo
I haven't had problems with it yet
Probably scuffed teams
dense trench
So, Shinano's pretty bad in pvp?
subtle thunder
Nah, she should be pretty good, depending on who you use her with.
Not sure if the plane bug is still a thing though, that'd limit her usefulness a fair bit.
But in theory, especially if paired with Nagato, she should be pretty strong.
silent ocean
plane bug? ah how lag affects her barrage?
subtle thunder
No, there was a bug where planes were way too squishy about one or two weeks ago. But they may have fixed it already, not sure.
silent ocean
felt more like they were testing the waters on a future re-work/nerf to planes and it ended up sneaking its way into live servers lol yeah it was fixed
leaden sky
The AA bug ? They fixed it previous mt iirc
subtle thunder
Ah, good to know
elder crane
Yeah was already fixed
dense trench
Nerf to planes? Aren't BBs meta enough already?
candid sluice
It was the new plane from the shinano event