pvp

[elder crane]

Hence, full suicide setup

[karmic forum]

Since I don't have naganami I'll probably use noshiro Jintsuu ykkz

[elder crane]

With hiryuu to back it up

[vague token]

yeah but with dr you have higher odds of living

cause offense xD

[karmic forum]

Or Azuma noshiro Jintsuu for torp meme stuff

[crude mortar]

im using torp ||plane|| meme

[elder crane]

Yeah, I'd take the second team there

Unconvinced I should drop Azuma

[karmic forum]

Noshiro and Jintsuu just work so well together

[vague token]

azuma/noshiro is going to be strong

just toss bulge on juneau

you win

(ill use bulge/armor azuma though)

[karmic forum]

The Azuma Juneau noshiro Vanguard might overtake ykkz version

[vague token]

ykkz becomes big gamble vs triple torp squad

if you dont roll lucky

[elder crane]

Anyways can I shill my team?

[vague token]

you get 1 shot

[karmic forum]

All signs point towards oathing noshiro smh

[elder crane]

Introducing "fuck Azuma too" with black oxy Noshiro

[vague token]

xD

[karmic forum]

Bold

[vague token]

im still not a jb believer

[elder crane]

I tried out sanrui lead earlier
It was... Whatever

[vague token]

entirely usable

but i dont believe

xD

sanrui doesnt get you anything

except big numbers

on someone who cant land them

[elder crane]

With Alg gun she actually does okay

[vague token]

yes, but it isnt as flexible as azuma

angle is still limited

[elder crane]

I ran instead of Noshiro lol

Not Azuma

[vague token]

oh

double

[elder crane]

I'm not stupid

[vague token]

[elder crane]

[vague token]

carry on then

i wish she had an aux gun

then she'd be good

actually is her he skill written as main gun only

or just HE ammo

oh no, technically it's HE damage

[elder crane]

Anyways, she did okayish
Did kill vanguards better, but also took more dmg, and seems to not do much vs main

[vague token]

so theoretically she could boost mle

[elder crane]

I'm more interested in 610 black dildo Noshiro option

[vague token]

kinda weird cause usually these skills say Main Gun only

[elder crane]

If she actually survives to 2nd torp launch, then I'm already winning, so whatever

So might as well boost her a bit for the situations I'm not winning
I was already trying out oxytorp on her cause screw azuma, so a natural transition?

[vague token]

oh huh, bulge + armor actually gives an even 1k hp

weird

[elder crane]

.....

Isn't that just worse than double eva equip

[vague token]

i mean, i was running armor/gyro

now i can block nagato and torps

xD

50% dr

[elder crane]

Like
Armour < 2 eva equips vs shelling
And armor half negates bulge, so the two together < 2 eva equips

Azuma only has, what, 40 base eva after all?

Torps go from 1 to 1.3 modifier

And bulge doesn't help vs plane shit

[vague token]

i mean, my comp handles planes whether she lives or dies

she just needs to absorb everything else

it's still 9k base hp with 50% torp reduc

[elder crane]

Yes, but literally worse than double eva equip, no?

[vague token]

yeah but i get bad dice rolls

time to ignore the dice rolls

xD

[elder crane]

1.3 instead of 1 modifier on torps

So basically, more like -35% vs torps

[vague token]

yes, and noshiro bulge still kicks it under 1

[elder crane]

Amd you lose eva

[vague token]

i never had eva

i was armor/gyro

i am giving up 8 speed for huge boost vs torps

not evasion

the relative change is still fine

[elder crane]

Drop both and run double eva and it's better, no?

[vague token]

but, like i said, i have bad dice rolls

so it's better for me to go more hp + dr

[elder crane]

If you eat all torps you die anyways

[vague token]

which means they lose all momentum

[elder crane]

You need to rely on some eva rolls

[vague token]

in a black aux

and just lose

it is perfectly acceptable to sacrifice 18k of hp

to completely no sell 3 vg

and then mash up the main with double cv

[elder crane]

How do you deal w hiryuu then

[vague token]

my own hiryuu

xD

i swapped to formi/hiryuu remember

https://gyazo.com/d371bd9c76834c4be23996b0eccbf567

ultimate power

[elder crane]

Mmm, idk, their vanguard will distract your first salvo/launch

You think that main can win vs namaryuu main vs main?

Especially if down a cycle

[vague token]

i mean, i usually do fine because noshiro makes it to the end

since juneau is off tank by design to die from just shells since she turns last on pivots

and rich has already counter punched ahead of time

plus double crash

which is why usually rich is 30k+ and the other two are just kinda there

[elder crane]

Wait, here's my question
If it's okay for azuma to die if she eats all the torps
Why run torp dred anyways

[vague token]

because if they triple stack she'll need a bit more to soak some more

like soaking 1 ibuki's worth atm

isnt hard

soaking 3 crit boosted cls?

that's hard

that's what, +40% crit rate

or 32

i forget

[elder crane]

Okay, lemme calc this out
How many torps do you want her to be able to eat?

[vague token]

probably 3-4 hits since movement should deal with the rest

i know 2 is doable, not sure on the 3+

[elder crane]

She can already eat that tho

9k crit is the max dmg doable per torp, it seems

Vs heavy

Okay, let's just go with 9k crits vs heavy if no torp dred

[vague token]

i think 2 9ks + chip is death with just armor

[elder crane]

You're running Noshiro already though

Meh, whatever, I'll use that as baseline
and see the dist on the probs of needing X torps that would be doing 9k crits to kill Azuma with Noshiro if Torpbulge+VH vs Rudder+Badge

also look at eHP vs main fleet too

[vague token]

quick math for no evading, bulge does push azuma to 5 torps required for kill

or more

i forget offense dr

xD

or wait 9k was with dr

ill just ignore it

[elder crane]

hmm, that's without DR actually

since offense

good point

that favors eva even more though, so I'll welcome it

[vague token]

oh was that an offense torp?

xD

ok then quick spitball math of bulge/armor requires 6 crits to kill

probably off somewhere

assuming base 9k crits on offense against heavy

[elder crane]

Huh, I take things back then
it seems VH/Bulge w Noshiro is just better vs torps
about same avg perf but much less RNG
stupid vanguard accuracy + Nagato buff smh

[vague token]

oh

honestly i thought you were right

[elder crane]

explains why ykkz is disappearing as well

[vague token]

i was just meme

tfw the math works out

[elder crane]

I wonder if Noshiro has higher evarate vs like the stupid, what

[vague token]

[elder crane]

210 or so hit stat?

than ykkz

since 15% of her evarate is fixed to a skill, so isn't affected by enemy hit

[vague token]

right

it just adds it after all the math

[elder crane]

Ah, nope

yeah, there's barely a gap diff with 150 vs 200 acc

Still, as you said, Noshiro doesn't explode in, what

literally 1 torp is half of Ykkz's HP, while Noshiro is still decently healthy after 3 nommed, maybe even 4

[somber axle]

Rip yuki

I just got her too.

[elder crane]

Well, if you don't have azuma, just coddle her vs torpmemes

Hmmmmm

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Well
it looks like vs not-planes, vs anything in Namaryuu torpmemes is better with VH/Bulge Azuma than double eva Azuma with Noshiro

Didn't expect that tbh, I stand corrected

pretty much the same eHP (after accounting for armor bonus vs ammo type) if they properly run +hit on Nagato/Amagi, if not actually better

vs torps, about same avg perf but much less RNG

[vague token]

[elder crane]

4.5% evarate vs accuracy boosted IJN vanguard btw

for no eva equips

aka everything will hit, pretty much

[vague token]

but it's ok cause you have -50% damage taken from 130% damage taken

;)

[elder crane]

+1k more base HP

[vague token]

yeh

[elder crane]

which is +2.34k after multiplier

[vague token]

tfw your memes are not just dreams

[elder crane]

should be able to eat at least 9 torps with Azuma, assuming they RNG crit not more than half of them
7 on defense

Torpbulge-Noshiro Jun takes 7 hits to kill
on offense

5 on defense, which is a bit, um

yeah, she's probably getting deleted if leading then

also Noshiro is like 20% evarate from eva calc then +15% from her skill

[ripe latch]

first fdg gun print after 5 weeks

[elder crane]

wait, nvm, I'm looking at it wrong for defense

defense just needs to sometimes work

for a consistent snipe (80+%)on Torpbulge+Noshiro Jun offense torpmemes needs at least 9 torps landed or so

[vague token]

[elder crane]

So yeah, I think my current overall conclusion on torpmemes is:
It's taking advantage of the fixed static meta in CN/JP at high ranks
EN meta isn't at that point, so it probably isn't as good as old standard meta setups
CN/JP has easily available adjustments to combat torpmemes if needed, at the expense of being a bit worse at original meta matchups

So basically, the less popular it is, the better it will work

[vague token]

it's still easy to adapt to i feel like for cn/jp

and then just no sell it

[elder crane]

Yep

[vague token]

unless they're super rigid in their meta

xD

in which case

[elder crane]

So basically, the less popular it is, the better it will work

Relys on people not adjusting

I'll change conclusion if it can be demonstrated to work vs at least Namaryuu without VH on Azuma, possibly w torpbulge Juneau lead?

Ideally vs even namaryuu Noshiro

[vague token]

i guess i could try bulge/gyro or bulge/rudder azuma

but i like juneau off tank a lot right now

so i want armor to stop nagato from doing shenanigans

i also want people to move but event so lists are ded

[alpine summit]

Should of looked at that name

And refresheddd

[ripe latch]

+11

[true vale]

First. Time. Ever.

[elder crane]

Congrats?
now do it next weekend

[mint hornet]

Lots of variety in today's meal

[ripe latch]

🥩

[vague token]

this rng though

[ionic magnet]

cringe reddit post

sure it can take a few wins on defense when stars align

but do i use it when im rushing on last 10 mins in offense? hell no

[ripe latch]

not a cringe , become new meta

🥩

[ionic magnet]

new meta is resetting now?

[vague token]

it'll be stronger for killing casuals than the usual

suicide 2.0

xD

[lament lichen]

wats resetting

[ripe latch]

resets to found azuma with bulge xd

[karmic forum]

The problem with VH Azuma is that you can't put it on your backline

Although it might be a sacrifice worth making

[ripe latch]

vh on azuma its

[vague token]

it's ok, blue did the math

vh/bulge/noshiro azuma works fine against torp

xD

who needs dice rolls

when you have big dr

[ripe latch]

imagine if trp team have hiryuu

[vague token]

in which case your noshiro outlives theirs because she has boiler and hp

instead of oxy

so you win with your own hiryuu

[ripe latch]

[vague token]

ez

[karmic forum]

What do you put on noshi

[vague token]

i use pearl/boiler

[karmic forum]

Double boiler or boiler + pearl

[vague token]

i use double boiler juneau

[ripe latch]

ihr pearl , any vg cannot kill her

[karmic forum]

IC

[ripe latch]

only main

[karmic forum]

I might end up swapping VH armor to Azuma to see how it pans out

Still think that putting it on backline is a good idea to force 50/50 WS guessing games

[ripe latch]

[ionic magnet]

why not just use noshiro to tank if you have her anyways

and let azuma do her thing

[ripe latch]

old woman cannot hit her , why using vh to tanky ?

[shell heron]

Which one of you is rumia here. Your hiryuu/amagi/fdg can burn

[karmic forum]

I think noshiro should be tank if you're running pearl on her

[lament lichen]

wat

[vague token]

noshiro doesnt have the raw hp to do it

even with bulge

i think

like the sheer number of torps she can soak is less but im not sure

would need bluemath for that one

[karmic forum]

I don't use noshiro so you might be right

I remember people saying that she's squishier than expected

[vague token]

also, preserving noshiro/juneau for FC is better

[karmic forum]

Because her Eva rate matters less

[vague token]

if you gotta drop someone before hitting final counter

better to drop azuma

[karmic forum]

@shell heron that sounds like a spicy defense fleet

[lament lichen]

i always drop azuma before juny

[elder crane]

Noshiro tanks torps worse than Azuma does, yeah

Nagato boosted IJN vanguard has waaaay too high hit stat

[lament lichen]

i rather have noshiro alive than azuma in most fights

[shell heron]

There's no best target for ws snipes. And hiryuu being flag protects her from early delete

[elder crane]

Noshiro doesn't even reach 40% evarate, and even with bulge, tanks on avg about same number as Azuma does, but with greater variance since evasion is rng

[ionic magnet]

i'd completely drop azuma if im fighting torpmemes exclusively tbh

[elder crane]

Azuma literally just powers through torps

[vague token]

azuma will shoot them back better than any other option

[karmic forum]

I think Azuma offer too much to drop

[vague token]

and still sponge them

[elder crane]

Even with eva equip, she's sub 10% evarate

So it's all straight absorbing torps with her HP

[vague token]

azuma is the best option even with armor

[elder crane]

No RNG on that

[vague token]

cause she'll just kill them back

xD

[karmic forum]

Although maybe pairing her with noshiro is going to be the best option

[vague token]

even if you absorb literally every torp

with azuma

you have won

because they're using black aux

so now they drop down to no damage

even if they live

and no boiler/hp to keep themselves alive

[karmic forum]

I'd rather have Azuma die than Juneau

[vague token]

you just sweep them

then by having azuma die early and juneau die later

you can preserve the heal for your main

although that's why i use juneau off tank to catch shells xD

sneak in the heal

kek

[ionic magnet]

all i need is a healthy ykkz and im p sure noshiro+jun can eat the first wave just fine

[elder crane]

Anyways
that vanguard just fires off 12 torps total
and Azuma can just absorb at least 8 of them with bulge+Noshiro

[vague token]

ykkz has to rng through those torps

big

[ionic magnet]

well she got the odds so

[elder crane]

not vs that kind of hit stat

[karmic forum]

Ykkz would be the one sacked for noshiro in that fleet

[elder crane]

every torp she runs in to, ykkz has like 40% chance to be nuked for half her HP

her evarate is at best 40% vs Nagato boosted IJN vanguard

[vague token]

isnt a 9k heavy crit on offense still like 4000 damage

[ionic magnet]

is it? im p sure its higher than that cos BBs has sub 50% hit rate even with aurora

[vague token]

on a light

[elder crane]

IJN vanguard

vanguard base hit for CL/DD is 180+

[ionic magnet]

ik

[karmic forum]

That's BB acc for you though

[ripe latch]

yuki with boilers vs trp team - 2-3 torps

[vague token]

jintsuu is 151 base actually

she blind

[ionic magnet]

BBs has 130 ish acc with double SG

[vague token]

noshiro has Superior Tech

with 171

and nagamani is hyper upgraded

189

xD

but yeah, i think ykkz is nearly 1 tapped by a crit

[elder crane]

Namagi with SG and aurora has ~65% hitrate btw vs ykkz

but then she physically dodges

[karmic forum]

I've never tried ykkz tank but if I ever wanted to gamble...

[elder crane]

and has negation skill

and even then, well
there's good reason why we run FE on her

[karmic forum]

I've tried double boiler before and it's not a good idea

[alpine summit]

i always thought ykkz offers so much

[karmic forum]

She does

[vague token]

ykkz does offer a lot

[alpine summit]

pretty consistency my last alive

[ionic magnet]

shes the reason why torpmemes are not a thing on offense imo

she can just say nope to everything

[vague token]

no one has run triple buff cl stack though

[elder crane]

generally, the dmg vanguard takes isn't too bursty

[vague token]

9k crits on a heavy

[karmic forum]

A few people have run noshiro + Jintsuu + IJN DD

[elder crane]

or like, in general

[vague token]

the dd doesnt boost the vg though

[karmic forum]

And those are always the torp memes that force me to reset

[alpine summit]

is it time to revive my 120 jintsuu

[vague token]

and trades a lot more durability compared to 3 cls

for not much more

nagamani pushes the cl squad crit rate to like

[elder crane]

anyways, I don't see it for EN
it'll work since still majority of defense is trash

[vague token]

what

40?

[elder crane]

but the most common good defense is still namaryuu

[vague token]

50?

[alpine summit]

i dont think most people have nagami to 120

[elder crane]

if the most common defense was FdG or warkai comp, then sure

[alpine summit]

i know mine isnt even 100

for torp memes, i normally do ayaya in pve

[vague token]

10/10/12, +32%

[alpine summit]

so didnt even consider her

[vague token]

honestly it's like having 3 ibukis

without being locked to a CA

with that much crit rate

and you can all buff each other

xD

disgusting

[shell heron]

Until dev30 fdgs and azumas become more common. Then hiryuu/amagi/fdgs are somehow worse

[alpine summit]

after i get my first pr 3 equips, im going back to pr 2 to finish azuma/fdg

[ionic magnet]

how much boost is it again

black dildo+610mm vs the regular dildo+magtorps

like in final dmg

[alpine summit]

how long do you think it will take to do 200 prints total for them

i can go unlimited c00b works

[vague token]

regular mag is 145

610 is 206

so that's like a 42% boost or so

not counting that black torp gives 5% boost

[alpine summit]

both around the same dev

[vague token]

all the buffs gives the entire vg +32% crit rate

so they should float around 42-45% total crit rate

with their base hit stat

[shell heron]

Did we find out if the range on the 610 is still the same?

[vague token]

and of course jintsuu crit damage boost

it should slowly go to defense main

is what i heard

but of course only 1 time xD

[ionic magnet]

thats a lot

but still

dont think it gets past ykkz rng consistently

[vague token]

yes, but you gotta dodge 8 of them

[ionic magnet]

well half of those will miss anyways cos thats what torps do

i'll try sheff too if i get someone in my list

[elder crane]

black torp 5% mostly just offsets 30 less torp stat

[vague token]

yeh

[elder crane]

it's not that big of a deal

more like 1-1.5% more dmg

@shell heron yeah, 610 black dildo still slowly sails well beyond enemy main fleet even for attacker, from neutral position

so you're much more likely to hit something, rather than having that like 1/3 chance of not hitting vanguard and not being in range to hit main fleet

I think if your vanguard decides that they like to hug back border though, that torp launches after the lead vanguard's might still have range issues as offense

[vague token]

time to hug the backline

so we both get hit by shells

thanks ai

[elder crane]

double the value on enemy strikes/shelling

hmm
I wonder if Bel skill works on suicide dmg, it should, right?

(not that it's 2 years too late to care about this)

I suppose also helps mitigate Nagato dmg, technically

[vague token]

uh, theoretically it should

it's just aviation damage reduction

oh wait

the wiki says Escort Ships

does it only buff the vg?

and just ignores main?

maybe just a weird translation

[elder crane]

it for sure applies blue buff to main fleet ships somehow covered

[vague token]

ok just wiki things

[elder crane]

idk if it actually does anything though

[vague token]

oh

also wiki says airstrike damage

which is different wording from like say

north carolina's aviation damage

does the game code even support differentiating plane weapon damage from crash?

????

cause like looking at the majority of skill descriptions

MOST say aviation damage

lemme check in game

ok IN GAME it says damage taken from aircraft

which would imply crash

ironically taihou says reduces from airstrikes

lemme check nc

in game says From Aircraft

so yeah it should

cause NC works on crash

[elder crane]

Meanwhile Essex

[vague token]

look we dont talk about that

[pure smelt]

how good is the mag torp aux for pvp

it lets you use some of the higher dmg torps doesn't it?

[elder crane]

torpmemes with it gets a bit more legit
Probably just a bit

on CN/JP, current meta is shit at dealing with it apparently, since torpmemes have been LOL for so long

Kiro and I did some thinking/numbers, and it's basically, "slot Noshiro over ykkz, run bulge on Azuma if you lead with VH Azuma, run Hiryuu over FdG, and just dunk on torpmemes lol"

Current "meta" for CN/JP is VH Azuma/Jun/ykkz with either Namagi 457-FdG or, even worse, Amagi, 457 Warkai, and FdG (sometimes with 457 too)
FdG needs time to do her damage, which torpmemes take advantage of, and not running Nagato means there's no Nagato barrage to RNG smash vanguard

[pure smelt]

yes but I run torp meme vg

do I need to get 3 mag auxs

[elder crane]

you want 2 at least

[pure smelt]

which 2 ships should I have them on?

i running ykkz noshiro jintsuu

[vague token]

2 with one ship running pearl is probably fine

[somber axle]

Hi PVP, 114 Enty or 107 Hiryuu? Nagato is flag in this comp.

[finite valve]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484441900531843082/741784734580998144/unknown.png

the new king of AA

[elder crane]

That's a DD gun, doofus

[vague token]

baited by the fp aa gun

i only use it on kita xD

[elder crane]

You use this trash DD gun on Kita?

[vague token]

no, the fp aa gun

[lament lichen]

Whats vh again

[karmic forum]

VH is one of the reasons why I want Hololive rerun

[vague token]

VH Armor Plating

[karmic forum]

nvm its not hololive

[vague token]

not sure what the VH stands for

[karmic forum]

Its Crosswave

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/VH_Armor_Plating

[vague token]

oh wait, it's at the bottom

vicker's hardened

[karmic forum]

EIther way its good because it changes medium armor to heavy armor which matters for defense against WS snipes, Nagato/Amagi barrages, and BB shelling in general

[vague token]

also 650 hp is nice

[lament lichen]

Oh i been using it on hiryuu when we hade that event

[vague token]

i used it on amagi for a while

but it's definitely been more useful on azuma for me lately

xD

[elder crane]

Mostly it's vs Namagi barrages

Vs normal shelling, rudder is just as good
Ofc can run both

[lament lichen]

i just never moved mines for a long time

[vague token]

it's ok, the time for armor/bulge is upon us

extra thicc

[somber axle]

Since hololive rerun isn't happening, we should eventually get VH armor in core shop right?

[karmic forum]

VH isn't from Hololive, its from Crosswave

Which can rerun

[somber axle]

RIP VH

[crude mortar]

DEADGAME

[vague token]

new event so

plus whatever happened after patch where people couldnt start matches

[somber axle]

I did all my runs already, all +10

[vague token]

i got one +1

xD

[sterile bobcat]

How good is Jeanne d'Arc in general?
As I understand it, most meta frontliners are ones who can stall/tank/provide defensive utility and JdA seems fit for the job, idk if she's missing something

[vague token]

so, her shield skill has a bit of an awkward timing

and base 25 speed is a huge problem

the stat boost skill is just w/e

she COULD have been good with some shifts

and like, not 25 speed

[sterile bobcat]

So she's worse than, say, Sheffield?

[vague token]

in most situations probably

she probably has some niche uses if you can work her timing

but the speed penalty is quite high

it's like being negative one boiler for most cls

[sterile bobcat]

What about Belfast vs JdA, since I don't like relying on the smoke
also I should've mentioned that I'm already using Richy, idk if that changes anything

[alpine summit]

You can get away with a lot of things on offense

[vague token]

are you trying to mitigate damage in the 10-20s mark?

[sterile bobcat]

pretty much, since that's what seems to make or break a lot of my fights vs tougher opponents
I know resetting is a thing but still

[vague token]

i think jeanne could be usable but do note that her self stats are really poor compared to belfast

if you do two +500 hp gear on her, her shield should be around 600

depending on defense that can pop before say, nagato barrage

i think she's workable, just dont expert her to output as much as belfast

belfast just has better numbers for everything

[sterile bobcat]

alright, I'll test her out for a few fights to see if she works as well as I thought
maybe I'm just overestimating her cuz richy buff

[vague token]

the rich buff wont help her compete with belfast on the offense department, it just puts her at an even level i think

in terms of base stats

jeanne has a really low cl gun efficiency and even with rich's damage buff doesnt match belfast's HE skill

[sterile bobcat]

Might be too early to ask, but any of you think Drake is going to replace Azuma when more people start getting her to high dev levels?

[vague token]

drake doesnt offer anything to beat azuma though =/

her EHP comes from fighting over time by lifesteal

which means she has to hit things

and make it to every 20s mark

even if literally every single barrage shot lands at 20s

her ehp is MUCH lower than azuma

not even counting the usual CA gun problem of limited firing angles

she's definitely better than using like say

roon or w/e

but nothing can displace azuma

but if you have drake higher than azuma you might as well use her probably?

just watch out for torp squad

since she has like

0 durability

[sterile bobcat]

Well seeing that I'm planning on running nugget for pvp anyway once I have her leveled, and already have far more BPs for Azuma than Drake, I think I know who I'm running

[shy hazel]

ditching this season for real now

woke up just now

2 hours after reset

[vague token]

i think this is a good vacation season given the mess the patch did for locking people out lol

[somber axle]

Terrible season anyways, I took so many +0s.

[quartz scaffold]

Are the positions good? I also have Nagato if she can replace one of them

[mint hornet]

I have warspite fdg amagi from left to right. So that their warspite can't free hit mine if they have it in the middle

on offense adjust as needed to target enty hiryuu etc

[zenith tundra]

the positions of that comp depend on opponents

long story short u want fdg to tank opponent ws and ws to snipe hiryuu, amagi or maybe even ws. again non meta comps u should split ws and fdg focus for faster fights

[vague token]

i think in a general sense it's probably better to have ws mid right? if no hiryuu?

otherwise yeah you gotta shuffle

[quartz scaffold]

How's the position of the vanguard

[vague token]

vg is fine, pretty traditional

if juneau is dying late you can shuffle but otherwise that's classic

[quartz scaffold]

Nagato. Can she replace one of my backliner?

[shell heron]

Juneau already dies late as lead sometimes

Why would I put her center

[ionic magnet]

[shell heron]

Isn't that comp as viable as the standard namaspite on offense

[ionic magnet]

Nagato. Can she replace one of my backliner?
@quartz scaffold yes namagiws and namagi fdg are pretty standard comps

i like putting amagi mid in that comp tbh

max focus with ws+fdg

[shell heron]

Same. Makes it hard for an enemy warspite to snipe her

[quartz scaffold]

thanks

[shell heron]

The same reason why I hated that flag hiryuu today

I go after amagi and hiryuu first, fdg will have a field day chipping at me

The other option doesn't sound much better

[ionic magnet]

one thing i hate on amagi fdg ws

is its freaking slow

[frail orbit]

Yeah

[shell heron]

Losing amagi barrage cd buff and azuma stat boost is a shame

[frail orbit]

But u have basically zero shit

Other than Naga based team

And we know that Nugget offense retry is kinda

Either u want consistency, huge frontal dmg, or RNgesus burst

Pick 2 out of 3

[ionic magnet]

[frail orbit]

Inb4 Hiryuu still better than Wakai snipe keks

Might as well switching to that on offense koz u know

Wakai miss on 2 salvo of 457

Is kinda

Even tho I blamed her shit despite already w/ HPFCR + SG ffs

[vague token]

i will shill juneau off tank

[ionic magnet]

just BB things

[empty grove]

The slowness is why I stopped using it

[vague token]

juneau off tank against triple bb is

screened vs barrage but not shells

[frail orbit]

I still have more fun w/ AFC anyway

Ark 4mi Cent

[ionic magnet]

Ark?!

[frail orbit]

Ark no ishii mama ni

I meant
Am just memeing anyway but

[ionic magnet]

[frail orbit]

Nice way to fl0xx 5 Ryuusei

Or fl0xx Cudas anywhere

[ionic magnet]

i tried switching amagi to richie recently and it feels 100x better

need to test properly tho

[empty grove]

I will shill richie

[ionic magnet]

[vague token]

ive been shilling rich

xD

[frail orbit]

Wanna shill Rich too

But fooken father of mine smhw

U know lah
Staph the staph already, it's already too overbearing for me and mom to handle

Perhaps better switch now?

I meant she's a bishop anyway

[karmic forum]

I should use richy one of these days

Maybe just copy Famine's team

[vague token]

join me

rich/formi/hiryuu

[karmic forum]

Whats the point of formi in that comp?

[vague token]

za warudo for rich 2nd shot

if you miss at 0

try again

xD

also lots of crash

[karmic forum]

I've considered using ws/fdg/amagi before but I don't like that comp without two 457s

[vague token]

i have 0 457 so

[karmic forum]

FDG or WS without a 457 feels rather underwhelming

Are you at least close to first 457?

[vague token]

40/50

[karmic forum]

So still stuck in PR2 prison?

[vague token]

i still need dev 30 so

it's fine

[alpine finch]

take a year break

probably playing catchup for another year

[ionic magnet]

richie is literally a kgv kai

[karmic forum]

I think I went about a month without a single 457 bp

[ionic magnet]

faster shot stronger burns and no bs requirements

[karmic forum]

Although that was when I was mostly spamming cube research

[ionic magnet]

[vague token]

and team support xD

debuff

also easy to sync with formidable

[frail orbit]

Howe's Howe tho

[vague token]

cant sync kgv with formi =(

[alpine finch]

is max fdg that huge in pvp?

[karmic forum]

[alpine finch]

each one i fought felt underwhelming

[karmic forum]

No idea on Howe

[vague token]

max fdg crits for 5k-6k with 457

before 20s

so yeah

[frail orbit]

Need HPFCR too so

[vague token]

also 10k base hp

[frail orbit]

Well

I dunno

[karmic forum]

I don't think d30 FDG is that big of an upgrade

WS does better on offense imo

[vague token]

what, d30 is a huge upgrade

[frail orbit]

Havent even hv 2nd 457 for FDG

[ionic magnet]

howe should be another viable flex pick

[vague token]

50% extra potential damage

[ionic magnet]

with that accuracy buff

[karmic forum]

I meant over the existing meta options

[frail orbit]

50% extra potential damage
@vague token this

[karmic forum]

Dev30 FDG is a huge upgrade on fdg for sure

[frail orbit]

3rd MGM

[karmic forum]

I'd still use ws on offense

[frail orbit]

Is the big deal

U are not using her for stall

Rather

[karmic forum]

Although FDG does enable a lot of flexibility with defense comps

[frail orbit]

As a semi DPS + decent Wakai tanker

W/o 457 that is

[karmic forum]

I never had a problem with tanking WS with Rudder + VH amagi

[frail orbit]

2ND 457 WHERE

Yeah

[karmic forum]

457 is definitely the more significant PvP upgrade

[frail orbit]

Exactly what I used on Mikumo's acc beforehand

Rudder + VH keks

[vague token]

i used to do that

azuma armor is better for me now

[karmic forum]

Azuma never had survivability problems on offense for me

But apparently she can be a bit squishier on defense

[alpine finch]

think they'll re-release armor plate in the future again?

[vague token]

azuma armor is to sponge the first nagato barrage

[karmic forum]

They might

[alpine finch]

i missed that one

[vague token]

if i put juneau lead

it's high odds of instant death

unless you rng really hard

[karmic forum]

Its the crosswave event so there shouldn't be any issues with a rerun

I'd rather have a second VH armor than a second 457 honestly

[alpine finch]

yea its been real hard trying to get back into pvp

missing a ton of major boats and chasing pr2

[vague token]

well, ws/monarch is still ok

will take a few resets but still doable

[shell heron]

what do you drop for armor? gyro or boiler

I'd honestly keep boiler. Speed is too nice to lose

[karmic forum]

Drop gyro

Use VH + Torp bulge according to blue

Even better when used with noshiro

[shell heron]

never really had a problem with Azuma being torp nuked

then again I don't run her lead

[vague token]

it's for the triple torp buff

in cn

you will need both

9k crits on heavy on offense

that's a 3 shot on azuma

give or take

[shell heron]

is torp finally not just a meme?

[karmic forum]

Jury is still out on torps

[vague token]

it's triple buff stack

no ibuki

[ionic magnet]

on offense? i'd say zero chance unless youre memeing and just want to see big numbers

[karmic forum]

We suspect that the meta vangaurds only need to make small adjustments to combat torps

And they won't be as impactful on EN because not many people use VH azuma who is the main target of torp comps

[vague token]

vh azuma can still ignore it with bulge

[ionic magnet]

ngl kinda fun to try it on defense

[vague token]

and noshiro

blue did the math

[ionic magnet]

wonder whos gonna be the first torpmeme victim here

[vague token]

armor/bulge is good

[ionic magnet]

[vague token]

and since rudder doesnt actually make you dodge ijn vg

just use bulge

xD

[ionic magnet]

thats a tradeoff tho if youre not fighting a torpmeme

[vague token]

nope, you have a billion hp anyways

[shell heron]

I've been torp memed by noshiro/buki/aya before

[vague token]

+1k and base stats

shrug off nagato barrage

[shell heron]

it won't be anything new here

[vague token]

and the 1k hp buffers solo hiryuu

it's the power of Raw Numbers

cause it turns into 2.34k hp

xD

[ionic magnet]

still a tradeoff

[vague token]

well yeah, you're good against everything a bit

instead of weak to one and strong to another

the ultimate sponge

[ionic magnet]

and youre losing ykkz in that comp

[vague token]

who doesnt really do much against triple torp

because 1 crit is basically instant death

9k heavy offense turns to like 4k or so on light

on defense

[ionic magnet]

you say that but she can just say nope to everything

[vague token]

yes, you need to nope 8 610mms

[ionic magnet]

and im mostly talking about when fighting non torp memes

[vague token]

good luck

azuma/noshiro isnt that bad vs that

[ionic magnet]

so youre just worse w/o her

[vague token]

you get more aa

for hiryuu

so you kill off azuma and noshiro lasts a while still

and offers more damage pressure

ykkz is better for a purely main focus

of course

but noshiro/azuma has a lot of power

[crude mortar]

kiroshima sensei

[vague token]

only memes

i think ykkz is still a better choice for most comps

[ionic magnet]

not sure if i'd value being "better" than torpmemes over the real comps

when its an easy reset if ppl start using black+rainbow dildo

literally first 5 secs of the match and you know the result already

[vague token]

xD

im ready for the casuals to complain more

"lose in 5 seconds"

reeee

[ionic magnet]

[vague token]

cause they dont know to reset

just lose

forever

[ionic magnet]

hey

thats me

[crude mortar]

[vague token]

i mean, i didnt know about reset until i joined this discord

[ionic magnet]

i learned about resetting like 3 months in

[vague token]

xD

[ionic magnet]

[crude mortar]

is it possible to get 2600 without resetting

[vague token]

i mean, something weird always has the chance to meme on you

[ionic magnet]

yea very risky

[vague token]

even if it's like sub 5%

over time you're gonna lose

[ionic magnet]

i still reset about 5 times per season

[crude mortar]

[ionic magnet]

maybe possible with max dev everything and 2 457s

[vague token]

https://gyazo.com/4baa55aaab946e3e8420c735636b9a00

hmm, extra hp or a bit of oxy?

on the vg?

[ionic magnet]

should be 1 oxy

tried using same setup and i got 14.1k with them oathed

[frail orbit]

Noxy?

Or Yoxy?

[ionic magnet]

lol

[vague token]

https://gyazo.com/1043bf42a0f781a030414d830a2b42c8

beeg damage

[frail orbit]

Yoxy aka Nanoxy btw

[ionic magnet]

[frail orbit]

Crash meme w/ Richie?

[vague token]

rich died a split second before juneau xD

[frail orbit]

[vague token]

otherwise she'd have 30k+

[frail orbit]

Not yet 200?

[vague token]

na vg ran into nagato

so cl guns couldnt shoot juneau

xD

[frail orbit]

[ionic magnet]

see off tank jun is

[vague token]

na, it was still fine

[ionic magnet]

but srsly it just depends on comp

[vague token]

it didnt really change anything

my hiryuu still fc like 8 seconds after theirs cause of it

xD

if it went early it would just shift the damage to rich

instead of hiryuu

yeah oxy is bad though i pushed to main with full vg lol

[hollow quartz]

Is Hiryuu better than Warkai for Namagi?

[frail orbit]

Hiryuu just that much of a cockroach

Even w/o fooken snipe of Wakai

TRIPLE 460 WHEN YONGSHIIIIIII

[vague token]

is that yamato gun or something

[frail orbit]

Ye

Already on old datamine

[naive dome]

Lmao this guy's name

[proper sorrel]

who in the right mind oaths houshou

[frail orbit]

Why not

[sterile bobcat]

If I'm running nepgun over seattle gun as aux on my BBs, how much dps am I losing?

[crude mortar]

10fp

but you deal more dmg againts enemy vg a bit more

againts cl dd

KILL THE YUKIKAZE

[mint hornet]

For FDG's second BiS, why is the the triple 381 recommended over the 406 mk6? faster/20 more FP?

[shell heron]

I want to say faster in general.

should be enough to barely avoid rudder procs

[lament lichen]

its just to avoid rudder lol

[mint hornet]

[shell heron]

it's only 30% chance to make most of a salvo useless right.

never gonna happen

[lament lichen]

to avoid the stall

[crude mortar]

is this eatable?

rank 100 is 1343

[somber axle]

Do it

[crude mortar]

yeterday I got baited

[somber axle]

Yolo do it!

[crude mortar]

was rank 500 and eat rank 120 +0

[somber axle]

You're like 4 pts ahead of me.

Would be 6 if you take 2 +1s

[naive dome]

is sea hornet good in pvp?

[crude mortar]

+1!!!11

[lament lichen]

Yes sea hornet is better

[ripe latch]

why this shit only +10

[tranquil badge]

From a choice of FdG, Nagato, Amagi or WarKai; who would miss out? Would it be Amagi?

[ripe latch]

?

if fdg dev 20+

[rocky shadow]

How do you guys think about new black oxy?

[ripe latch]

discuss on weak , only first salvo get magnetic

trash

[rocky shadow]

Quad magnetic torp is better then?

[ripe latch]

yeap

[rocky shadow]

Isnt killing vg enemy faster would be better (like juneau or yukikaze)?

[upper sparrow]

Assuming ur rng torp is good enough for hitting them

[rocky shadow]

I see new torp fleet now is naganami

[ripe latch]

[rocky shadow]

How good her compare with Ibuki or ayanami?

[tranquil badge]

oh i meant dev 30 FdG

Hmm taking out Nagato huh

[naive dome]

wow i just got baited so hard, I fought a rank 250 as rank 600 and got +10

[upper sparrow]

🎣

[ripe latch]

[sterile bobcat]

Why exactly are CVs not meta rn?
I suppose them completely lacking aux guns might be one factor, but is their dps also bad compared to BBs?

[upper sparrow]

Their survivability

[crude mortar]

idk

im using 3 cvs

[upper sparrow]

[crude mortar]

[ripe latch]

[naive dome]

cv team is pretty much dead if they don't win the vg fight tbh

[upper sparrow]

Easy got shot down by warkai too

At least hiryuu can used to buying time for a while

[upper sparrow]

Where is ur QE smh

[crude mortar]

friendship end with royal navy

20s go hard or go home

all vg dead except yukikaze red hp

*their

actually I should use essex as warspite lamb of sacrificial

cuz she already apply dots her job is done

first air strike their vg most of the time deleted and their backrow 50% hp or less

[naive dome]

what's their vg ?

[crude mortar]

i tried on many vg

80% of the time their vg just melted

or red health

its meme fleet dont mind it

[naive dome]

btw imo a cv fleet should have aurora to prevent the yukikaze/noshiro surviving

[crude mortar]

2 maybe

but 3 its already overkill

go try it

except rudder proc

if their rudder proc

reset

[naive dome]

you use parrallel or converging torp?

[crude mortar]

triple cuda

[naive dome]

i used to run enty hiryuu hood before getting amagi

it has like 2/10 winrate against the namagiryu meta, and it always pretty much comes down to hiryuu duel

[ripe latch]

why monti , she usless

[crude mortar]

I dont have baltimore

sandiego 119 atm

[ripe latch]

sirius

[crude mortar]

fully meme fleet

[ripe latch]

balti not for 3cvs , sirius juneau and any +1

[crude mortar]

I kinda need something that kill their backrow

[ripe latch]

azuma

[crude mortar]

cuz their vg get deleted already

yeah

[naive dome]

converging torp is amazing at deleting backrow, assuming you win the vg fight

[crude mortar]

I wanna try triple ap cuda

[karmic forum]

@tranquil badge You either take out FdG or Ws since they both compete for the 457 and they aren't as good without it. I prefer Ws on offense and FdG does better on defense. Alternatively you can take out Nagato and use FdG/Amagi/Ws but I unsure about that comp without two 457s.

[tranquil badge]

Ah thank you for the detailed response

[elder crane]

Or you can WS Amagi Hiryuu (Waryuu?)
Offense-only comp pretty much, not enough RNG for defense +bad positioning since BB secs matter much more than torps here

As with NamaWS but even more extreme, overall power level is slightly lower in exchange for greater consistency, imo

Both are at least seem to have higher offense winrate overall (with 457, without, NamaWS felt similar and Waryuu felt worse) than Namaryuu, not sure about NamaFdG

[karmic forum]

The problem I have with namagi FDG on offense is lack of targetting

Feels like things can go easily wrong if you face an opponent with a VH armor hiryuu

[elder crane]

That's why you run max stall vanguard with it; you draw the game on long enough to ensure FdG gets to smack shit around

which is why the new torpmemes does so well vs FdG comps, imo

iirc you set FdG opposite Hiryuu btw, to get the bonfire started on her ASAP with barrage

Armor doesn't help vs fires

[karmic forum]

Makes sense, I had a lot more success against Trump's fleet when I targeted his hiryuu

Although I'm pretty sure he uses VH armor Amagi or something because shes tanky even with focus

[crude mortar]

FINALLY HEALTHY SLEEP

[ripe latch]

season not end so healthy sleep bye bye

[crude jetty]

what is a good replacement for enty here, if I missed Amagi event? I also want to replace Laffey

Hiryuu or Hyuuga?

I also have JB

Kagerou for Laffey? >.<

[crude mortar]

noshiro?

jintsuu?

[crude jetty]

also event only right?

I dont have them

[crude mortar]

10-4 go farm go go

[crude jetty]

Jintsuu is 10 something

yeah

storywise I am stage 7

[crude jetty]

hahahaha 😄 well... It takes forever to get Monarch somehow

[crude mortar]

but you have ngato

[crude jetty]

yeah I got lucky there

So what about : Hiryuu Nagato Warspite Jun Yuki Ayanami?

[crude mortar]

you should try ask meta fleet player like @shy hazel @zenith tundra @elder crane

im meme fleet player idk

[crude jetty]

idk if it is a meme fleet .. best would be something that is a bit hybrid like: so i can also go further in stages pveish

[ripe latch]

nagato without amagi usless but rng if proc sakura

[crude jetty]

well .. it just suxx ..I have to wait for amagi again... also warspite retrofit event

y.y

[lament lichen]

You shouldnt worry about pvp at your lvl atm. Just fight what you can as lvl difference matters alot

[crude jetty]

I actually stomp a lot using my current fleet

[ripe latch]

replace laffey to porty kai

and enty to hiryuu . if not enough dmg - back to enty

[crude jetty]

hmmm... Or I try to rng Howe? and go with Monarch ws howe yuki jun helena

[ripe latch]

nope , solo howe usless

monarch B works if she on center

[lament lichen]

Howe barrage targets a random

[crude jetty]

so she isnt that great for pvp?

[lament lichen]

Yeah cuz it can target the vg lol

[crude mortar]

@ripe latch what B?

[ripe latch]

Every 35(15) seconds, randomly aim at 1 enemy and release a Lv.1 (Lv.10) barrage. After the barrage, increase all main fleet BB, BC, BBV's reload and accuracy by 10.0% (20.0%) for 8 seconds.