pvp

[shell heron]

[vague token]

i had to waste a reset cause i had famine left most after start xD

[storm jewel]

what is yukikaze aux in pvp?

[elder crane]

Usual setup is Fire Ext + Boiler

[vague token]

FE+speed

sometimes speed+speed if you're feeling lucky

[elder crane]

depending on the exact setup, torpstick or toolbox might be a consideration

usually not though

[vague token]

oxy is bravery

xD

[storm jewel]

hm, thats not what i expect lol

i thought it was toolbox+rudder the whole time

[elder crane]

Rudder on ykkz is purely a PvE thing

where her high luck and low enemy hit "breaks" evasion scaling formula

Player ships in PvP usually range between 2-3x the hit stat of even 13-4 boss Taihou, and ofc have their own luck stat, which makes high-evasion scaling a lot worse

[storm jewel]

ah i see i see

how about noshiro

i usually use rudder+beaver on her

always the last one alive

[elder crane]

Similar thing, except it's still "optimal" for her eHP, just not the only "optimal" setup

[storm jewel]

except facing aurora type of enemies

[elder crane]

especially vs people who don't set up defense properly

which let's be real

is 95% of all people

[sour oasis]

@shell heron any rank. I'm curious if there is a cap on bonus ladder points.
To screw around with me, at 0 ladder points I fought against a 130-pointer and got +34. At 34, I fought against a 227 and got +37.

[elder crane]

they run double shell BB? Rudder Noshiro laughs while facetorping them

If you already have a very good team though, those teams will be no issue anyways, so ehh

Anyways, vs a "proper" team setup, Rudder or Badge on Noshiro is not really any better than toolkit
so usually, just run an engine or something
Still not "wrong" though
Both Rudder+Badge is "wrong" though

[shell heron]

that sounds about right.. At private, our data estimates it to be about 15 points per +1

so that 227 was a +12

[sour oasis]

So there is no cap on bonus points?

[karmic forum]

Cap is base*2 - 1

So 49 for private

[storm jewel]

@elder crane so what is your optimal for noshiro then

[sour oasis]

A 735 difference at most. Oh, a 360 difference. Pretty much missing an entire restock then.

[karmic forum]

Thats the score cap

The bonus cap would be +24

[sour oasis]

Not worth missing an entire restock. But makes it hurt less.

[elder crane]

Noshiro I usually run something like
Double Boiler
Boiler+Fire Ext
Boiler+Torp bulge
Pearl+Oxytorp
or such, depending on the setup

[still minnow]

should I use cuda or swordfish on slutty?

[elder crane]

Swordfish if the slow is useful for anything at all

assuming timing doesn't matter ofc

cuda otherwise ofc

[still minnow]

timing is more or less irrelevant, it would be slowing sandy

since sandy is the only thing I've seen that survives the ryusei alpha strike on the vg

[elder crane]

Sandy doesn't survive by speed

she survives by ridiculous AA stat

[still minnow]

yeah she survives by her AA stat, but then slowing her would help the VG finish her off

[elder crane]

she has absurd eHP vs plane damage

[still minnow]

in theory

[elder crane]

not sure why slow would help tbh

[still minnow]

so the guns hit more?

but so cuda it sounds like

[elder crane]

Maybe helps Azuma land a few more shots?
everything else either doesn't benefit or doesn't matter, pretty much

[still minnow]

how do you feel about the VT-18 avenger? with the 3% damage bonus vs. BBs? I'd assume that applies to reppuu crash damage?

[elder crane]

though given 2 shitty TB in her slot, that might just be fine

300 crash damage kills viability of VT-18

vs 480 on cudas

[still minnow]

damn

[vague token]

it's ok, but it only makes sense if you have a dive bomb slot to use cuda on

so you can amp it

otherwise solo tb use cuda

[elder crane]

you're still better off just using cuda LOL

[vague token]

i use it to adjust formidable timing

cause she so fast with dive cuda

xD

[frail orbit]

Centaur on ryusei?

[still minnow]

I take it +hit is a huge deal for CVs in pvp?

especially the ones that target vg with ryusei

[elder crane]

losing 180 base crash damage hurts waaaay too much
pretty much impossible for the 3% to make up for it
flood pretty much never happens while vanguard is alive
by time vanguard is dead, you can't wait on floods to do work

it's just awful overall

[frail orbit]

Yeah but thing is

[still minnow]

makes sense

[frail orbit]

Timing purposes

If he ran cent ryusei

[vague token]

3% more cuda diver damage

[frail orbit]

Unless

Going for like

[elder crane]

If you're trying to ryuu vanguards, +hit isn't awful

[frail orbit]

3Cuda

[elder crane]

the issue is the +hit equip for CV is, ehh

[vague token]

and more barrage crash

[elder crane]

just run another cuda

[vague token]

then she speed ties with taihou xD

[still minnow]

I ended up being stuck into having avgas w/ ryusei on formi and then homing beacon on taihole to get them to time up properly to alpha the enemy VG simultaneously with the ryuseis, and that doesn't leave any room for the +hit badge to get in there anywhere

[elder crane]

you'd need the TB slot crash to be more than 10k total base crash damage per strike for it to start to be worth it

highest base crash per plane is 480

[frail orbit]

Also I wonder if given the fact that nowadays WFC aint even relying on backline for VG kill
Should we just discard the 1s minimum timing?

[still minnow]

so I'm not sure if I'm leaving a lot of damage on the table

[elder crane]

glhf

[vague token]

i mean it boosts other planes too at least

better than dropping to another low crash tb

[frail orbit]

Also a bit sad w/ Ryusei tbh

[vague token]

ryuusei is sub 200

[frail orbit]

Cant flex my 7 ryusei

[elder crane]

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Blackburn_Firebrand

this exists

420 crash

[still minnow]

why would I want that

[frail orbit]

See Rendar

[still minnow]

is it an improvement over cuda for me on slutty from the crash?

[elder crane]

argument for VT-18 here is speed adjustment

no, it's shittier cuda unless you need slower strike

[frail orbit]

Am used to ask for recommending that

If for timing

[elder crane]

then it's a shitter cuda you live with to get a slower strike off

[frail orbit]

420

[still minnow]

gotcha

[vague token]

if you hit even 1 flood though it's fine

xD

roll the dice time

[frail orbit]

When u said just TBM

[elder crane]

except that never happens when vanguard is alive

literally never

[frail orbit]

Then TBM turns out to be

Awful

[vague token]

what, i see tbs hit backline all the time

[elder crane]

I tried it out and it was just awful

[still minnow]

I'm using heccdabber on formi instead of AP cuda for timing reasons, am I losing out on much from not being able to use AP cuda here?

[frail orbit]

On mine and u too

Same w/ me

Flood wont proc at all

Keks

[elder crane]

when vanguard is alive, lol no
parallel TBs barely hit main fleet at all

and you need to hit at least 2 for flood to have a high enough chance for kicking in iirc for it to be good

[vague token]

parallel is the only one with even any odds of hitting main

cause aim torps will only focus vg

[frail orbit]

Cant even flex ryusei on centaur for ASAP kill tbh
Given that Ryusei hits nowadays bonk anyway

[vague token]

xD

[frail orbit]

[elder crane]

I ran it on Hiryuu, and I think I saw a flood applied with initial strike maybe 1/10 times at best

anything past that, and waiting for the flood to tick is too slow

[vague token]

well yeah, hp is too low to reward dot strat

xD

[elder crane]

if fights lasted 3-4 mins, then maybe

also btw

anyone see the DpS calcs for Richi?

it's frighteningly good

[vague token]

i only know her fire is flat, but her shelling should be like s tier

[frail orbit]

So plausible for pvping?
But low acc and luck tho

[vague token]

but her barrage is 60% vs heavy or w/e

[elder crane]

15% buff though

so it's fiiiine

[frail orbit]

Also given her barrage

[vague token]

she gets 15% hit boost

[elder crane]

she's no worse off than Nagato etc on that

she has some of the highest sustained DpS
and has preload

[vague token]

she's like what, 6 points under nagato?

should be fine

[elder crane]

so might actually not be that meme in PvP

[vague token]

her aa is surprisingly high too

[elder crane]

JB with Richi buffs is also ridiculous ofc

so the pair might be pretty scary

[vague token]

until you whiff everything

then you cry

[elder crane]

that's the sticking point

[vague token]

advent of heavy armor azuma

shrug off all the front load

[elder crane]

shelling focused BBs

[vague token]

xD

ill be running formidable/rich/amagi

[frail orbit]

resurrection?

[elder crane]

lol no

[vague token]

so the 2nd gun shot will hit for sure with 406

sanrui doesnt benefit

cause she's iris

not vichya

[elder crane]

she benefits lol

she buffs both

[vague token]

she needs dr more than damage boost

[elder crane]

that's the reason why I say "lol no", yep

[vague token]

vichya gets dr for w/e reason

[elder crane]

also doesn't solve her angle issue

[vague token]

while iris gets damage

but sanrui has plenty of damage

[frail orbit]

Keks

[vague token]

she has other problems

[frail orbit]

Off tank lah at min

[vague token]

plus she has her own damage boost skill

[frail orbit]

Tank just algerie/jannu

[elder crane]

I mean, if she got enough damage, then maybe
but like
what do you remove, lol

[vague token]

so adding 6% damage to +35% damage is like nothing

[frail orbit]

?

[elder crane]

mutiplicative stacking

so it's fine

[frail orbit]

^

[vague token]

no?

is hers ammo?

[elder crane]

+% buffs to an ammo type are not normal damage buffs

[vague token]

or damage boost?

[elder crane]

she's boosted HE ammo damage

[still minnow]

So double reppu + cuda is the most optimal I can possibly make slutty's aircraft layout?

due to her quirks

[frail orbit]

So how about running algiers/jannu?

On tank

[elder crane]

Ignoring timing, pretty much yes

[frail orbit]

Slow af tho w/ jannu

[elder crane]

Algerie is 🚮

[still minnow]

I'm using heccdabber on formi instead of AP cuda for timing reasons, am I losing out on much from not being able to use AP cuda here?

[vague token]

lol algerie

[frail orbit]

Still nanoda?

[elder crane]

Jeanne is kinda interesting

much better sheff for the most part, but CA speed

[vague token]

waaaaay too slow

sheff is far better cause no speed dump

if algerie had an aux gun

she'd be usable

you could just set things on fire then pew pew with mle

[still minnow]

oh shit what jeanne has garbage speed?

[frail orbit]

How about nodtune?

[still minnow]

that's a big yike

[elder crane]

Algerie is basically slightly improved Takao

[vague token]

jeanne has eldridge speed

[still minnow]

dammit I was super hyped for her

fucking hell whyd they have to make her so useless

[vague token]

algerie has a burn barrage though

my meme lives

🔥

[frail orbit]

Or just slap nanoda smhw keks

Jun nano sanrui smhw
Riche amagi xx slot whom?

[elder crane]

Anyways, Jeanne, we'll have to see on that, but don't get hopes up
the way her damage immunity procs, it might be better than it seems

[vague token]

if algerie's blue didnt turn itself off during auto

she'd jump up a bit

[still minnow]

better enough to compensate for the extra boilers?

[frail orbit]

Need to see tho

[still minnow]

if you run more boilers you're running less durability auxes

[elder crane]

it's tied to the ship first taking more than 6% of Jeanne max HP in damage, which that amount is negated
so the immunity ideally only procs once burst damage comes in

[vague token]

sadly, 6% of her max hp is like

400

[elder crane]

basically, if a shelling salvo hits you, it negates it

don't forget PvP mods

[vague token]

she has 3k base

or 3.1 or w/e

even double box pushes you to 4k

so like 8-9k

so that's still 400-450 tops

that's like 2 shells from azuma

who fires her 2nd set around 10s

[elder crane]

well, that's enough to not get proced before BB shells come in, hopefully

[vague token]

not including barrages that trigger

[elder crane]

well, negating a set of azuma shelling isn't terrible either

[vague token]

yes, but that means your invuln isnt up for first nagato barrage

xD

might as well run belfast smoke

if the timing was just a bit later

it'd be so amazing

[elder crane]

depends on if the shield doesn't have ship evasion, maybe?

[vague token]

like 15s

that hits 2nd torp

and fast gun

[still minnow]

do lusty's shields factor in ship evasion or does everything hit?

[elder crane]

it is Amagi timing though tbf, for some setups

[still minnow]

what about burn damage?

[vague token]

burn damage will use it up

[still minnow]

does burn damage consume/trigger shields

[elder crane]

burn is blocked, ship evasion is ignored

[vague token]

evasion wont

[still minnow]

same for jeanne?

[vague token]

if you dodge it doesnt consume shield

illustrious works that way now

[elder crane]

can't evade when lusty shield is applied

well, minus skill effects

[still minnow]

wow that must be why they're so udnerwhelming in pvp

[vague token]

yeah

xD

[elder crane]

it sets your base evarate to 0%

[still minnow]

that's dumb af

[vague token]

well, for most ships the shield is still a huge chunk of durability

cause she has more hp than them

of course usually that means juneau lives too long xD

[still minnow]

don't use juneau ezpz

[elder crane]

lead jun ezpz

[frail orbit]

[vague token]

i still have lead juneau sink before noshiro

[elder crane]

she dies before shield is up

[vague token]

every so often

[frail orbit]

Imagine not using jun

At all

[still minnow]

imagine using meta

smh

[vague token]

triple bb rng is the worst

[frail orbit]

Me relied on ryusei Centaur just to catch up keks

[elder crane]

anyways, one of the nice parts about jeanne, is that the skill is actual immunity rather than just perfect evasion

means no ramming or DoT damage

[still minnow]

so how do you think things will go for me if I try to slot jeanne in place of sheffy?

[frail orbit]

So basically E/Hiryuu level of immunity?

[elder crane]

E is perfect evasion

she can still be rammed and DoT still keep ticking

You haven't ram-killed Enty through lucky E proc yet?

used to happen every now and then when she was meta

[frail orbit]

Ram killed as in wut

Crashed?

[elder crane]

vanguard ships ram

plane crash isn't ramming damage

[still minnow]

it should be

fuck ntrprise

[elder crane]

neither is suicide ships or mob ramming main fleet in PvE

[karmic forum]

Enty doesn't get true invulnerability unlike hiryuu

[still minnow]

just plane crash her to death through lucky e

[frail orbit]

Personally I just crash her away

But not w/ VG

And not when E proc

[elder crane]

I mean, literally everything meta but FC ez rolls Enty

[still minnow]

good for meta 8D

[frail orbit]

When using Namawakai tho

Already too late tbh

[storm jewel]

who is FC ?

[elder crane]

Still ez rolls

[frail orbit]

To even see E procs

Ez kill ASAP

[elder crane]

your shelling goes in before E even launches

yeah

and one E strike is whatever
in terms of output, E isn't that scary until multiple strikes or with a damage amp

[hot creek]

FC = Formidable/Centaur

[vague token]

all the double damage stuff is more than double cause of the pvp main damage adjustment

xD

that's true scary

[elder crane]

Yeah, it's more like +125% effectively for most main fleet

[vague token]

hurts like hell

[frail orbit]

Anyway
Isnt the lack of Ryusei on FC comp kinda kills the usage of FC comp for ultra 1hit kill VG?

And now it's only for the sake of crash dmg, aint Hoe gonna be better tho for that? 233 loadout and gacha barrage

[elder crane]

shittier stats

[frail orbit]

Kiro how's Hoe compared to Cent?

[elder crane]

also 233 loadout is worse for crash

crash damage is mostly TBs

[frail orbit]

831 tho

[vague token]

if you use dive cuda + cuda on taihou

[frail orbit]

It exists for a reason

[vague token]

you have more total efficiency of 480 crash

[elder crane]

Formi still better

[vague token]

than centaur

[elder crane]

you can triple cuda formi

[frail orbit]

Naaa I meant

[elder crane]

Cent gets the CVL bias + buff

[vague token]

triple cuda is a waste since barrages do crash

[frail orbit]

Cent replaced by Hoe

Lumbering af anyway

[still minnow]

AP cuda vs comet on taihole?

[frail orbit]

So just slap fast fighter on Hoe

[elder crane]

Taihoe does less damage, amps worse, and is less tanky vs planes

so yeah

[vague token]

no, her amp is better

it's hard damage

just 40%

[elder crane]

still no

[frail orbit]

[elder crane]

it's +15% avi

[frail orbit]

Keks barrage

[elder crane]

vs +10% damage

+15% Avi still better

[still minnow]

you guys referring to pvp stat boosts?

[elder crane]

also ofc RNG on Taihou

[vague token]

15% avi doesnt equate to 15% damage though

[elder crane]

15% avi is more like +13% or so, yeah

[still minnow]

not a ship to ship buff skill?

[elder crane]

still better

[frail orbit]

So basically
FC kinda lose their essential purpose anyway of 1hit KO VGs hmmm

[elder crane]

or at least, pretty much the same

[frail orbit]

Dahm

I meant

If for crash dmg

[elder crane]

Well, it's just "win by outtrading" if you go for crash damage

[frail orbit]

Why not replacing Cent anyway?

[elder crane]

CVL bias and Cent bias

[frail orbit]

No need for a fooken slow barrage anyway

[vague token]

cent obviously gets dunked by ws

[frail orbit]

If well

U dont need kill VG

VG vs VG

[vague token]

defense centaur is memed on by ws xD

[elder crane]

160 reload
-10% rather than -20% PvP mod
70 evasion
with otherwise CV stats

[frail orbit]

Backline vs backline

[elder crane]

Cent vs Taihou results in Cent easily winning

and Cent also buffs rest of main fleet

[vague token]

taihou does too if she rolls it

it's full main 10%

xD

[frail orbit]

3% if want all proc

[vague token]

all damage too if you had torp main

i mean you only need 1 to fill up airspace

saiun is the most important one

[frail orbit]

And how about WFH?

Cent replaced by Hiryuu?

[vague token]

ryuusei one is weird

it's super delayed

the dive bomb one is ok

it hits like the entire screen i guess

[elder crane]

Amagi is just better in that setup, pretty much

Cent basically takes all the best parts of CV and CVL stats
the only negative is not being able to mount VH

she gets a free buff in PvP due to CVL taking -10% damage penalty for PvP rather than the -20% of CV

[still minnow]

thats such a weird buff

[frail orbit]

But still no need for a freakin slowing barrage if u want backline kill

[vague token]

yeah taihou has more total cuda crash still

[elder crane]

doesn't matter

[still minnow]

its not like any of the other CVLs are relevant in any notable way

[frail orbit]

U want backline kill

[vague token]

even with the cvl adjustment

[elder crane]

you don't need the slow for Cent to be good

[frail orbit]

Why not just barrage crash on anything

[vague token]

cent slow is a non-factor

[frail orbit]

I meant

It was for VG kill, right?

Then Ryusei revamped

And now it sucks hard

[elder crane]

It can be used for it

it doesn't have to be

[frail orbit]

So goes like backline crash only

And goes like

[elder crane]

wait, I'm wrong, nvm

[vague token]

it's also like negative factor on defense lul because bad mirror

[elder crane]

Cent was never about her slow in FC

[vague token]

cent goes 2nd

she's never for the slow

[elder crane]

Cent slow doesn't even help in FC comps

[frail orbit]

Vg vs vg, backline vs backline
Unlike Nagato/FDG based

[vague token]

or wait sorry first

[frail orbit]

Where u just sit down

[vague token]

for formi time stop

[frail orbit]

And get VG roasted

And also why tf KFC not tried at all

[vague token]

or if 2nd it doesnt matter at that point

[frail orbit]

Only WFC

[elder crane]

Cent slow was only used for BB comps

KFC is just worse

it was tried

[vague token]

kfc is the front loaded version

aka gamble that kgv shoots the vg early

then you just wipe and hit main

but wfc makes you the frontloaded on the enemy main

which is obviously superior in 90% of scenarios

[elder crane]

you need to gamba you hit KGV
Hiryuu is still an issue as always
also you need to run an HMS vanguard, which is a bit...

[vague token]

you only need 1

xD

[elder crane]

still

Jun Azuma Yukikaze

[frail orbit]

And it's still a gamble on Wakai to hit VG tho

[elder crane]

You don't need warkai to hit VG

[vague token]

you arent gambling on vg

ws is blowing up her main target

[elder crane]

that's not how WFC works

[frail orbit]

So now basically

[elder crane]

I prefer AP on warkai in that setup tbh

[frail orbit]

FC comp kinda lose its identity

[vague token]

although wtf is pretty vg friendly

[frail orbit]

Emphasis on identity

Of VG kill

[elder crane]

So what

[frail orbit]

And now going for crash

[elder crane]

it can still outtrade

[frail orbit]

Just lampshading the whole fiasco

[elder crane]

still does that better than any other similar setup

so it's fine

[frail orbit]

Yeah

Should admit that

But kind of a like what

Not intended for that setup?

But works

[elder crane]

you can go for vanguard kill on FC, or you can just outtrade

[vague token]

i swapped to 406 ws for ws/taihou/formi xD

[frail orbit]

Heresy but works

[still minnow]

who is K

[vague token]

it's a lot better

king george v

[still minnow]

lol KFC

[vague token]

aka foodie

feed her curry

[still minnow]

I don't want her to feed me farts

[frail orbit]

KFC
KGV Fish Curry

[elder crane]

If you want a traditional vanguard-kill FC setup, I'd suggest Hiryuu FC

[vague token]

or

wait for rich

2nd gun + formi za warudo = easy

xD

it's ok if you whiff preload

;)

[elder crane]

I'd run Rich+JB+Formi then, probably

[still minnow]

do riche JB

[frail orbit]

HFC? Seriously that works? No gun tho?

[still minnow]

preload city

[frail orbit]

I meant

[vague token]

id rather run rich/amagi/formi

[elder crane]

JB with Richi buff is fine without JB gun, probably

[frail orbit]

Also no aux gun

As in

[still minnow]

is there a 3rd good bb with a preload?

[frail orbit]

No extra dmg

[elder crane]

Doesn't matter

[still minnow]

just spam preloads out the ass

[frail orbit]

Koz am a bit greedy w/ it tbh

[vague token]

dunkek isnt good

[elder crane]

why need aux gun when their vanguard dies

[vague token]

[frail orbit]

Keks

[elder crane]

Yeah, no good 3rd preload

[frail orbit]

Faster kill lah for VG

[vague token]

if we didnt need juneau you could meme with like

triple hms vg

run kgv

[elder crane]

anyways, Hiryuu solves your Hiryuu/warkai problems

[vague token]

"preload"

[frail orbit]

Kinda obsessed w/ ASAP vg kill

[elder crane]

Might as well run HPFCR amagi then

close enough, right?

[vague token]

yeah xD

[elder crane]

3 IJN vanguard is much less meme

[vague token]

just run torp

[elder crane]

also you can even preload harder with that

yeah

That was my initial suggestion before I saw the damage calcs on Richi

[vague token]

i got ibuki finally so im working on that

with the double debuff

ibuki should be able to last a while

[elder crane]

Richi+JB+Torps
with either Warkai or Hiryuu kicker

[frail orbit]

Time to see more of Riche then

Wakai lah

Snipe snipe ASAP go whooshhhh on backline

[vague token]

hiryuu for safety net probably

[elder crane]

Need to deal with Hiryuu

main issue is hiryuu, yeah

[vague token]

aka just use your own hiryuu

[elder crane]

and Hiryuu for a fast team is better safety net than warkai is

Any fast team runs into the Hiryuu question

So many of my experimental comps died on that hill

[frail orbit]

Also

HFC against whom got demerit?

[vague token]

the nice thing is rich has that 300+ aa too

[elder crane]

Against non-meta

[frail orbit]

I meant less usable against whom?

[elder crane]

anyone teching vs CVs is annoying af

[vague token]

random sandy

guess i lose

[elder crane]

who tf does that in current meta anyways ffs

[vague token]

oops owari da dodged all of my damage

[frail orbit]

None use sandy on avrora tho

[vague token]

and then did 2.25x back to me

rip

[frail orbit]

Or at least only 1 or 2

[elder crane]

Anyways, you can deal with some of, but not all, of Enty, Sandy kai, Eldridge, erm

[frail orbit]

If so just switch namawakai. Ez

[vague token]

oops monarch/ws murdered 1 of them

[elder crane]

who else is an issue

[vague token]

triple hms

[elder crane]

nah, just Hiryuu tank

that's easy

[vague token]

double hms + enemy hiryuu

xD

[elder crane]

issue is with 2 of Hiryuu/Enty/Warkai

yeah

[zenith tundra]

457 should remove any enty problems

[vague token]

forces your fc first

[elder crane]

or with eld or sandy retro

[vague token]

im at 29

maybe uh

[elder crane]

Well, we're talking about Hiryuu FC

[vague token]

5 more months

[elder crane]

no 457 for that

[frail orbit]

^

[elder crane]

I'm at 43 I think?

closeish

[frail orbit]

And keep in mind am now on 40

[elder crane]

aka one more month

[frail orbit]

10more pls

10 more fok rng

[elder crane]

"closeish"

[zenith tundra]

i don't see that comp having a future anyway

[elder crane]

I mean, it's been, what, 6 months now?

[frail orbit]

And no one said EN rush FDG anyway zack

[elder crane]

Yeah, Hiryuu FC doesn't get any better, so

[frail orbit]

Most just slacc

[elder crane]

even Azuma starts being a bit ehh

[frail orbit]

If it was like
FDG Azuma based

Just mirror for me

Am just obsessed w/ VG early kill when slowed

[elder crane]

anyways, HFC is kinda in a similar boat to VH Azuma

if everyone ran pure meta, it'd be a lot better

[still minnow]

is there a good way to compare two planes on taihole?

my go-to test is to just test

but she's a fucking rng fiesta

[zenith tundra]

idk even yukikaze can take 40% hp solo from azuma heavy

[still minnow]

and that kinda throws my ability to test out the window

[frail orbit]

It seems not to be a Namaryuu killer sadly

I meant HFC

[elder crane]

No, it does really well vs that

[frail orbit]

And if nanoda just derp me
Just reset

[elder crane]

that's why I mean "if everyone ran standard meta"

[frail orbit]

I just do it for the sake of my own show

For satisfaction purposes

[elder crane]

HFC on offense vs Namaryuu does no worse than the mirror
maybe even slightly better, hard to tell
not a lot better for sure

[frail orbit]

Koz I disliked lolis anyway
Especially nanoda w/ her boiler

[elder crane]

Well, unless they tech in Sandyret or Eld for some reason

then you only have like 60-70%

while standard mirror just rolls them

[frail orbit]

And who tf runs Sankai nowadays

Only have like, 1 or 2 encounter against Sankai keks

For last season

[elder crane]

1-2 is still annoying

you only see like 3 good defense fleets over a season anyways

95% of setups are 🚮 even at gensui ranks

[frail orbit]

Also timing is like

CHF? From 1st to last?

How much gap for each needed tho?

[zenith tundra]

just for reference if i ever end up testing what would u use on that vs namagi fdg including planes and aux @elder crane

[harsh moon]

I think I'll lose my sanity

this one guys enterprise has triggered Lucky E for 20 times in a row

[vague token]

kek

[harsh moon]

too bad I outprised his enterprise with my enterprise

[still minnow]

what;s the weirdest fleet that y'all have made that can beat meta?

like reliably

80%+ winrate

[zenith tundra]

if a comp can beat that easily meta is meta as well

[still minnow]

so you're saying you haven't come up with one?

[zenith tundra]

i don't get what meta even means for people.... it's just comps that work with good wr

if u have 80% u are meta already

[ionic magnet]

[still minnow]

meta to me I guess is the best possible composition you can currently make

[ionic magnet]

maybe rephrase your question

cos its not weird anymore if it has 80%+ wr

[still minnow]

so if I can make my weird fleet beat meta 80% of the time then I get to be meta

big thonk

[ionic magnet]

with enough ppl that copies you

yea sure

[zenith tundra]

good luck finding a comp like that anyway

[silent ocean]

well meta normally means or at least how ive seen it used is a comp that has very few counters if any at all

[still minnow]

I think I'm pretty close tbh zack

but I haven't met a dev30 fdg yet

[ionic magnet]

meta just means its commonly used
and why is it used? simple, cos it works

[zenith tundra]

if u think like that meta means only t0 comps

[still minnow]

yes t0 comps is what I mean when I say meta

but apparently we can't agree on the meaning of that word so I'll just call them t0 comps

[zenith tundra]

technically all t1 and above can be used in old tl. it up to preferences whichever u use

[silent ocean]

but since a good chunk are time or event limited which feeds into it this game in particular i guess theres meta tiers?

[still minnow]

so if I'm trying to make a waifu fleet that is "good" what winrate % against t0 comps do you think I should be aiming for?

what do you think is possible?

[frail orbit]

Btw how's u guys score now?

Me got a bad start

[zenith tundra]

tiers are meant to indicate different wr in between comps

[frail orbit]

[zenith tundra]

92

if no one pushes all 10 i'll just quit the season

[frail orbit]

How much remaining

[zenith tundra]

7/10

[ionic magnet]

i'd say the best comps have around 85-95% wr vs the best def fleets

[shell heron]

top 10 EoS is still possible with a 140 start

[ionic magnet]

no such thing as 100% wr so yea

[shell heron]

top 3 is difficult tho

[still minnow]

wow it's that low?

weird

I would've expected 95%

[zenith tundra]

i enjoy sleep and a bad start is not worth playing anyway

[ionic magnet]

note against best def fleets

[still minnow]

yeah ofc

we don't even have that in EN yet right?

[frail orbit]

@shell heron am on 140 anyway

[still minnow]

due to lack of dev30 PR2s and 457mm?

[frail orbit]

Seems plausible?

[shell heron]

not an awful start, you can recover over the next few days

[frail orbit]

5/10 remaining zzzz

[zenith tundra]

to attain 95%+ u need specific setups and even then some non t0 comps struggle reaching that

[frail orbit]

Was rushing koz I want my sleep smhw zzzz

[shell heron]

that is my usual starts before and I still hit 2593+

[ionic magnet]

yea d30 PRs + 457 will have to wait

but we're talking about def comps rn arent we

[still minnow]

is fdg not in defense?

and azuma

[frail orbit]

FDG deffo def lah

And so does zuma

Koz why not

[shell heron]

a def fleet with 85%-95% against attackers is extremely high

[still minnow]

oooh

I thought he meant 85-95% as attacker

against meta defense fleets

[zenith tundra]

95% on defense lol

[shell heron]

I assume that's what we're on. we're talking about offense

[zenith tundra]

what kind of wall is that

[ionic magnet]

you guys are confusing me

[zenith tundra]

~~ just don't follow ~~

a defense fleet that can force 85% against a t0 comp is top tier

[ionic magnet]

thats the time where i'll consider quitting pvp

imagine gensui rush with 15% wr

[zenith tundra]

i'd run some meme aa comp just for ur wfc but it's not worth it

[shell heron]

if it can force 85% against attackers, it would be near unstoppable against any comp

[zenith tundra]

i meant 85% on offense

there is no such thing as 85% on defense if u are using a t0 comp offense

[shell heron]

it's an impossible win rate

I say even 50% is too high

[still minnow]

is there a benefit to having a good defense fleet or is it just flexing?

[upper sparrow]

85% winrate on def. fleet pvp
pvp will surely dead then

[ionic magnet]

yea even torp memers can only force me to around 85% on attack

[shell heron]

chance of stalling other sandbaggers

low chance, but chance

even Famine's comp isn't forcing me to reset as often as I thought

[still minnow]

what's his?

[shell heron]

dev30 azuma vs my dev23 at the time

namaryuu + azuma/juneau/yukikaze

[vague token]

137 start woo

[ionic magnet]

yea i'd say d30 azuma is just as bad as torp memers on def

[shell heron]

one can force a fast reset

the other can make a match go to a full minute

[still minnow]

why is azuma bad on defense

[ionic magnet]

shes not bad tho

[still minnow]

lul

[zenith tundra]

he meant bad as hard to fight no as not good

[shell heron]

making a match go a full minute is already good

[vague token]

azuma isnt going to murder you as hard on defense

but she's gonna sit there with 7k base hp

xD

[shell heron]

so she's a better prinz

[still minnow]

its ok just shoot her

:p

[vague token]

except she does more damage than prinz

xD

[ionic magnet]

she's still the best
its just not as scary on def as i thought
but maybe its cos im overhyped for her

[still minnow]

let's be honest she sits on a toilet anyway

that's where all the hype comes from

it's not azuma, it's her toilet

[ionic magnet]

[zenith tundra]

without cv and without azuma she is definitely not easy to deal with

[still minnow]

lucky for me I have the cv then

xDDD

[ionic magnet]

yea i guess thats another factor cos im using wfc

[still minnow]

if I'm spamming ryuuseis out the ass I assume I'm not going to have an issue with azumas even once they get to dev 30?

[zenith tundra]

too bad ur cv will start getting destroyed by 457

[still minnow]

ah yes but you see my trap card called the VH plate

[zenith tundra]

can't wait for people to complain that fdg randomly one shooted stuff with 457

[vague token]

lul

[ionic magnet]

[vague token]

shoulda stacked more evasion

[ionic magnet]

just raise your own fdg

[zenith tundra]

after seeing my ws getting deleted from 70% with rudder i would expect cv to go down from 100%

[still minnow]

how much hp does she have?

[vague token]

ws has 8k base

[still minnow]

wow yikes

[ionic magnet]

you should make that as a gif zack

[vague token]

doesnt matter though, fdg has 160 efficiency, and the even salvo is +50% crit damage

[zenith tundra]

should

i'd have too look up how

[vague token]

if you make a gif using like gyazo

you can save it

should be same for other services

[ionic magnet]

then spam it whenever someone ask if fdg is good

[still minnow]

sound slike only hope to not get doinked by 457 fdg is to dodge it?>

[zenith tundra]

even with just ws with 457 u are forced to run more evasion then now

[still minnow]

yike

balanse

[vague token]

if there was armor that gave like 1k+ hp for main fleet you could do that but there isnt xD

[still minnow]

need upgraded VH

xDDDD

[vague token]

na, vh turns a medium to heavy

that's fine

[still minnow]

vh also reduces AP damage taken by heavy

[vague token]

an item that just does a bunch of hp

[still minnow]

need an upgrade that reduces AP damage even further, by like 30% or something

literally exist entirely to counterplay 457

[whole terrace]

izumo meta when

[still minnow]

but I mean while I'm dreaming of things that will never happen

[vague token]

izumo intensifies

[still minnow]

may as well ask for pvp to get developed to the point of not being just a proof of concept

[zenith tundra]

if she wouldn't still suck even with that

[vague token]

just cause you take less damage doesnt mean you can kill them xD

[zenith tundra]

141 start another season of good sleep

[whole terrace]

My sleep doesn't fix when i stop sandbagging sadly

[zenith tundra]

my sleep schedule is fucked too. i just don't need to check al so i can just rest

[whole terrace]

how do u get those emotes? do u have to pay

[shell heron]

well no movement.

I'm guessing 142

discord nitro

Nope even worse 140

Should have refreshed much earlier

[vague token]

137, got minorly saved by someone full pushing

so i got 37 on first

all downhill from there xD

[zenith tundra]

https://i.gyazo.com/197d905c98d499344db9d8cf9e7a8ea4.mp4

is this good enough?

[crude mortar]

[whole terrace]

148

[ionic magnet]

[still minnow]

yes that is more than good enough

[ionic magnet]

deleted

[still minnow]

as warkai deserves

[vague token]

lol those 5k crits

not even shell powered

[vague token]

xD

[coral wren]

welp

5/10, 142

[crude mortar]

[zenith tundra]

i crit even 6k on offense on medium

[crude mortar]

im almost doomed

[vague token]

sounds right

[crude mortar]

I set my clock hour late

but I wake up cuz I want to pee

[coral wren]

wait ur same as me

[crude mortar]

1 hour ;ate

late

[coral wren]

wym almost doomed

[crude mortar]

I set

[coral wren]

did u almost miss ur exercises?

[crude mortar]

my clock 1 hour late

[coral wren]

LMAO

[crude mortar]

but I wake up 30 min ago

cuz I want to pee

im still sleepy

[coral wren]

yes

biological clock saved u

[crude mortar]

.

[coral wren]

my matchups lowest level 93 no refreshes

things are looking good

[crude mortar]

I thought gonna wake up 7.00 reset time 8.00

but I set clock count to 8.00

but I wake u[ 7.30

cuz I want to pee

now I cant sleep

gonna camp some rusher

all lvl 100+

is this lost

[ebon schooner]

Haven’t had a 144 in a while

[zenith tundra]

https://i.gyazo.com/197d905c98d499344db9d8cf9e7a8ea4.gif

now a proper gif

[still minnow]

nerd: "is fdg good?"

fdg:

[vague token]

make sure you download it

im pretty sure gyazo wont keep it forever

unless you pay of course

[still minnow]

whale gyazo

[zenith tundra]

good to know

[crude mortar]

whats the damage when using it on wa5spite?

r

[whole terrace]

but there's no evidence that it's fdg

[crude mortar]

on warspite on warspite

[zenith tundra]

ws hits around 2.5-3k i'll try and check

one day when i see an ws

[still minnow]

just fought a guy with lead juneau and the juneau died last in his vg

that's stonks

[zenith tundra]

the difference is that ws doesn't get extra crit chance and the crit dmg

[still minnow]

tfw lead juneau dies after yuki

[zenith tundra]

i had lead juneau die after fdg because opponent vg had 0 dmg

[ebon schooner]

The future is now old man

[still minnow]

safdfddfsfds underlvled vg is so irritating

can I just like

have them be 120

[zenith tundra]

time to farm

[upper sparrow]

just leveld them up

[still minnow]

literally cannot live long enough for the backline to load airstrikes

vs akaga torpmeme

[upper sparrow]

akaga

[still minnow]

ikr

I fuckin powerlvlled sirius to 106 on D2

[zenith tundra]

akaga torp meme has the most pressure on vg early even 120 can struggle being alive but u should win anyways

[still minnow]

still not high enough

[zenith tundra]

115 is minimum tbh

after that it doesn't chance all that much

[still minnow]

yeah my vg is 113, 118, 106

not even a chance

then I'm going to get jeanne and shes gonna replace the 113 and it's time for hell all over again

[keen sparrow]

sometime juneau can be last survive even put as tank but it only 1% chance to see that miracle

[zenith tundra]

that's a curse not a miracle

[keen sparrow]

[whole terrace]

[raw sapphire]

Hiryuu should be counted as villain

[crude mortar]

[still minnow]

found a guy with azuma and I swear to god 6 boilers

motherfucker was moving faster than my CL frontline

[crude mortar]

[still minnow]

kinda makes me want to try 6 boilers

oh it mustve been 5 since pearls

hm

[crude mortar]

just use one torp

super fast ms will run into all torp

[still minnow]

he had noshiro

not like that matters

[crude mortar]

still take alol of dmg

[zenith tundra]

6 boilers is total chaos. ur vg can just die to random bb shoots or outlive backlines

u don't want that in any juneau comp

[elder crane]

6 boilers sounds very explody to stuff that actually hits it

[still minnow]

he didnt even have jun lmao

azuma noshiro yuki

don't even know which one had the pearls

[elder crane]

Azuma Noshiro Yuki is already CL speed average

[crude mortar]

you can see skill proc

[elder crane]

Well, actually, higher

[zenith tundra]

blue i pinged u earlier for hfc setups including planes for testing

[elder crane]

Noshiro has higher speed than most CL
Azuma has higher speed than most CA

and ykkz has DD speed

[keen sparrow]

3boiler is stable

[still minnow]

...why is azuma so fast

[keen sparrow]

4 if lack speed

6 boiler for meme gotta go fast sucide

last time i try 6boiler for n result my vg die in 22s mark coz sucide to enemy back

[still minnow]

I tried 5 boiler a while ago and my vg went so far forward they dropped their torps behind the enemy vg

and then swung back and ate the entire enemy vg torps

[zenith tundra]

6 boiler is randomness at it's finest

[still minnow]

and I took the extras off right after

literally only one battle needed to show me why not to do that

[vague token]

engine tech is what determines speed

not ship size

aka lol jeanne

also look at how many 30+ speed bbs there are xD

[zenith tundra]

eldridge is also a thing

[vague token]

fdg is 30 speed

georgia is 33

[zenith tundra]

imagine it would actually matter in al at all

[vague token]

it would be fun if it did

[keen sparrow]

they can dodge bb shot

[vague token]

indirect cv buff

without adjusting number

formidable 30 speed

hiryuu is 34

[keen sparrow]

oh warkai speed 24 lol

[zenith tundra]

hiryuu buff sounds good.

[vague token]

ws is old engine tech

cause she's old

[zenith tundra]

let's implement it rn

[vague token]

mikasa probably even slower

[keen sparrow]

grandma

[vague token]

coal power engine

yeah 18

[keen sparrow]

welp mikasa 18

[still minnow]

pretty sure she's way older than 18

[keen sparrow]

[zenith tundra]

is eldridge old or they just forgot to add engines to her?

[vague token]

uh, eldridge is magic

pretty sure

i dunno what they actually used irl

[zenith tundra]

but is she old?

[still minnow]

afaik eldridge is abnormally slow for no real reason

[vague token]

diesal electric, 21 kn

[elder crane]

Eld is a destroyer escort

iirc

not meant for frontline combat, she's meant to escort slow transports to protect vs subs/aircraft, so is fine to be that slow

transports are like 12-15 knt ships anyways

as are surfaced subs

[zenith tundra]

so they just went with cheap engines

[still minnow]

btw kn is kiloneutons usually for measuring the output of the engine, knots are abbreviated to kts

[vague token]

yeah

compare like

hood

[elder crane]

cheap/efficient, yep

[vague token]

30 knots

[elder crane]

kiloNewtons is kN

always capitalized

[vague token]

wiki says 30 knots

no kn

xD

[still minnow]

except for when you're on the internet typing words and abbreviating everytihng so you can type faster

[elder crane]

also

21 kn (39 km/h; 24 mph)

so suck it

on wiki

[vague token]

i meant on hood

[still minnow]

welp

[elder crane]

[frail orbit]

Even slower than a BB

[still minnow]

never seen it as kn b5

[elder crane]

#whatisconsistency

[frail orbit]

On 1920ish

[vague token]

wikipedia

there is no consistency

[elder crane]

anyways, she's not meant for frontline work

so being slow af is fine

she's slower than even the superdreadnoughts btw

[frail orbit]

And why tf putting her on AL keks

Like wtf

[elder crane]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Eldridge#Philadelphia_Experiment

this is why

[frail orbit]

Oh not that again

[elder crane]

conspiracy theorists

[frail orbit]

NOT THAT HOAX AGAIN

[vague token]

honestly the speed values are close to their wiki speeds

[frail orbit]

Keks

[vague token]

not perfect

but "close"

[elder crane]

anyways, for same shape, larger = faster

[frail orbit]

Imagine degaussing for ultra invisibility

🧠

[elder crane]

square-cube law things mostly

[vague token]

invisibility, not invincibility

[elder crane]

there was an experiment to try to degauss to screw with magnetic detonators