Did he even dev 30 DR?
#pvp
zenith tundra
there have been matches that i would've never won without hiryuu with armor tbh. like not a chance but dunno how much that applies to en
ionic magnet
not a fan of both anyways cos armor just makes azuma die faster to torps
and as i repeatedly say torps are still the best in defense so 
karmic forum
It was just a screenshot of his depot with 3 of them
karmic forum
I don't have the tweet though
vague token
;)
keen sparrow
azuma armor is fud to torp meme 
empty grove
I use rudder+gyro azuma
ionic magnet
then you lose ykkz or azuma
keen sparrow
kabom
ionic magnet
not that worth imo
empty grove
ionic magnet
and shes like the best stall VG
vague token
also, noshiro has higher than average speed anyways
keen sparrow
is important for me
empty grove
I'd drop juneau before I dropped YKKZ
zenith tundra
idk but noshiro tankines is not amazing against azuma
keen sparrow
zenith tundra
yukikaze can still stall an azuma comp for over 1 min. i never saw 1 noshiro come close to that
vague token
i mean that is obvious given her numbers
id rather boost azuma crit and torp reduction
empty grove
The roach
vague token
teaaaam work
ionic magnet
anyways azuma ykkz jun should still be the best VG setup
you can replace smth here and there and it should work but will always be inferior
zenith tundra
in a close enough match yukikaze dr is very useful almost to the noticeable point
karmic forum
Are torp comps actually effective at forcing resets against Azuma?
vague token
if azuma face tanks them she can instant die
zenith tundra
if u use armor maybe
empty grove
I had my azuma almost insta die when wearing armour
vague token
but that's the same for everyone
zenith tundra
if u use rudder not a chance
vague token
if you catch 5+ torps you die
karmic forum
Most of the time torp comps force resets is by an early hiryuu proc
eager cedar
karmic forum
Sometimes hiryuu just eats a big crit
ionic magnet
instead you should ask if azuma in def is as good
empty grove
Idk
ionic magnet
cos torp def always has a chance to blow anyone
zenith tundra
use defensive setup on hiryuu and she rarely procs too early
ionic magnet
no i didnt find you again after that 
karmic forum
Defensive setup being Rudder + Beaver or Rudder + VH?
zenith tundra
armor always imo
keen sparrow
torp meme in def alwys scary 
empty grove
keen sparrow
n they blow u back with 4k crit torp x2
karmic forum
I use rudder+avgas for levelling vanguard reasons.
keen sparrow
karmic forum
My vanguard usually dies first so I need hiryuu to carry sometimes.
empty grove
Some of those backline torps are weird
zenith tundra
i want to run beaver rudder amagi and rudder armor hiryuu. it just works terribly on offense
karmic forum
Every time I try rudder armor or rudder beaver it just feels worse than the offensive setup
vague token
lul
zenith tundra
i'm going offensive with sg hpfcr amagi since i don't have a defense
empty grove
I remember running double SG on amagi at one point
karmic forum
Is using rudders on offense a bad idea?
zenith tundra
nah
keen sparrow
i using double sg on amagi sometime i chg to beaver rudder for more eva
ionic magnet
idk i like putting 1 eva gear on all my backline
karmic forum
My setups are all over the place because I sometimes use Hiryuu and sometimes use Warkai on offense.
keen sparrow
make enemy warkai frst barrage miss
zenith tundra
it's a bit too defensive for en but eventually u'll be forced into it
karmic forum
Amagi ends up getting SG+Rudder while Warkai gets SG + HPFCR.
sour oasis
It has to be flexible. PvP meta has more variants these days.
karmic forum
Nagato stuck with Rudder + Beaver
ionic magnet
tho can prolly skip on 1 bote as long as you dont place her across amagi/ws barrage spam
zenith tundra
running sg hpfcr in jp with ws/fdg 457 murdering stuff is a suicide
keen sparrow
all my back using rudder before n is gud
karmic forum
I'm not levelling Prinz because I'm holding out hope for refit.
sour oasis
eager cedar
zenith tundra
glad my jp account had a 120 printz so i don't need to bother with her
empty grove
zenith tundra
waifus are waifus
keen sparrow
karmic forum
tfw I had to level the ugly sisters because of BC req last event.
empty grove
I have junyou at 120
eager cedar
vague token
xD
karmic forum
I bet noone has a level 120 dewey
zenith tundra
i tried earlier with 118 izumo and isuzu with 0 dmg to full clear sp3 at safe level.
this is the result. that fucking hurts tbh
eager cedar
this guy officer
karmic forum
JP though
empty grove
Is JP even different
zenith tundra
safe level tho
karmic forum
Higher levels
karmic forum
Even with extinguisher?
zenith tundra
without
karmic forum
JP gets higher levels and more exp
zenith tundra
she had to burn
sour oasis
Scharn design has a better window.
karmic forum
EN gets gimped because Amagi server most likely
karmic forum
How many 138s do you have?
empty grove
10
zenith tundra
isss and iris reruns both aren't over 95 anyway
karmic forum
Do you know how many Agito got?
karmic forum
I'm super curious because he topped 200k that event.
empty grove
Yeah he went pretty damn hard
karmic forum
I'm definitely not going to farm as hard this time though
zenith tundra
i can't wait for archives so i can daily farm 138.6
karmic forum
Probably aim for 3 so I have have a set of 10.
karmic forum
Jojo is too busy doing CM now
karmic forum
French event made me realize that I shouldn't farm this hard for a gatcha game.
zenith tundra
i don't play enough to farm c2 anymore. i have to go d3
karmic forum
I ended up doing D3 for the baga dupes
karmic forum
At least its not D2
empty grove
Atleast zeppy can bypass a lot of that BS
karmic forum
Aviation stats with BB/BC reqs 
zenith tundra
i leveled up tosa from 60 to 80 in d3 then moved to c2 LOL
and then back to d3 after 100
zenith tundra
it was an older version from what i've heard
vague token
i sure wish my vanguard wouldnt drive right into shells
karmic forum
Apparently the new one is more accurate to the real design
empty grove
I'll get used to it
light crystal
So uh Urgent Comms seem to be an hour later than usual. Guys think PvP might also get affected? 
light crystal
I'll try to do mine an hour earlier than the regular time just in case, u never know
Sometimes wait till last 30 mins, but I don't feel safe on this one kek
zenith tundra
pvp timer keep on going. if it is borked for 1 reset it's borked for all resets
what happened in the past was season ending 1 hr earlier then expected but those times are long gone since dst was removed
shell heron
yes not seeing urgent yet.
too soon, haven't even been an hour
coral wren
Is it time to pounce?
zenith tundra
more like 0 chances
at least at 6/10
u would need to find a sandbagger that rushes 7 attempts for a +2
coral wren
Btw, to get more points, the opponent just needs to be +35 points more to than you for you to get more points correct? Or did they also have to be a lower rank than you when they appeared as your opponent?
zenith tundra
someone that has a higher score automatically is higher rank
it doesn't matter what score they had when u got them in list
as long as it's 35 score it gives a
+1 bonus
coral wren
Ok, that is all i wanted to know. I could probably get a higher score next season.
zenith tundra
namagi tosa can't beat namaryuu with nagato buff working...
light crystal
Just use WK to beat "Namaryuu" 
zenith tundra
stopped a match with both my nagato and tosa at like 5% hp
light crystal
Was ur Tosa 120/200, all gold kit?
light crystal
So all gold +10 kit then?
zenith tundra
light crystal
Fair enough
Could've been just ur VG shitting the bed tho?
Cuz if they underperfom TOO badly, not even a Mainline can carry a win kek
zenith tundra
my vg died when it should've. right after hiryuu final counter
light crystal
Hmmm. Did u retry a second time and was it similar results?
zenith tundra
i'll test when i'm not collecting +1 from rush
light crystal
lol
zenith tundra
switched to namagi fdg
light crystal
Cuz is should do OK. Umless u dont even get the one Tosa proc or Mainline takes some very unfortunate early torps from VG too early lol
zenith tundra
the problem seems to be ok is not enough somehow
also barrage dependent teams are rng to begin with
light crystal
Yeah, I dunno. While Tosa doing better than expected on PvP would be cool, I wasn't particularly raising mine for PvP purposes.
Always nice to have option regardless
zenith tundra
the comp itself lacks a tank for 457 ws era to begin with
light crystal
Ppl use WS Defense alot in JP?
zenith tundra
some do some other use namaryuu/namagi fdg
and most people is just 🚮 defense fleets
light crystal
Fair enough then :v
zenith tundra
i wish i had this in list for testing
never lucky... wasted all my refreshes too trying to get that
ripe latch
🇫 
zenith tundra
they fucked them up again
vague token
zenith tundra
they are up now
shell heron
2 hours late this time
zenith tundra
do people even care about nelson?
vague token
some people like hopeless tsuns
karmic forum
On CN/JP its FDG/Warkai/Amagi + Azuma/Juneau/Ykkz
On EN its still Namaryuu or Namagi+ws
Although dev30 FDG is coming pretty soon.
undone tree
Okay, thanks
mint hornet
how far along are you guys for dev 30 fdg? and also is fdg>azuma?
I dumped my general prints into fdg
and am about dev 25 and 5 prints or so
vague token
dev 19 xD
ripe latch
usable 
coral wren
So you could get your fdg and azuma to over 25 dev or up to maybe 27-28 dev.
Wait, is that
That isnt dr special general prints is it?
hot creek
they are rainbow 
coral wren
Did we really have that many events already?
hot creek
would have more if I bought lucky bags
mint hornet
i think I had 79 general prints as well
probably 60 65 from event stores and a few from point accumulation rewards
coral wren
Ah, forgot about point accumulation prints
I had not started cube research until this week so my azuma is dev 15, fdg dev 20
past egret
coral wren
2 dr prints weren't worth the 30 usd price tag
ripe latch
@hot creek yaptune valentine 
hot creek
best girl
inner zenith
LF DR conversion
vague token
i have 15 =/
shell heron
well, no matter how much of a lead I get.
the scores balance out in the end
haven't seen more than a single +1 per reset this entire week
vague token
i got a +2 cause i dropped
empty grove
Wtf
shell heron
more mag torps
charred sable
@empty grove I traded for all homing missiles cause the others are easy to farm and have crap ton of blueprints for
empty grove
Yeah I just meant it as in imagine being someone who mass farmed mag torps
Then you can just exchange for them
shell heron
yes, whale on mag torps 
empty grove
It's actually not
shell heron
shame
empty grove
shell heron
I want more for my crane collection
shell heron
you beat me. only 27
shell heron
at some point I stopped scrapping them and kept them
empty grove
shell heron
hot creek
I'd give em to you if I could. I have so many books cause I barely ever train new skills.
naive dome
my score is currently 2044 with 7 matches left, is it possible for me to get admiral of the navy ?
sterile bobcat
I believe Yukikaze is pretty good for pvp right?
sterile bobcat
I'm currently running Sanrui/Belfast/Helena, who should I replace with Yuki? @zenith tundra
zenith tundra
what's ur backline?
sterile bobcat
NC/Hood/Enty
zenith tundra
i would replace either saint louis or belfast. use belfast against foxes comps and sant louis against everything else
sterile bobcat
I also have Juneau who I'm too lazy to level up, I wonder if Bel/Jun/Yuki is a good vg or am I giving up too much dmg considering my backline
zenith tundra
u might be giving up too much dmg without helena for enty. u should swap nc for something better tbh
sterile bobcat
I did play around with a few options, but in my experience NC just out-damages every BB I have (which aren't a lot) so I'm sticking with her for now
maybe when I get my Monarch to a better dev level I can work with that
crude mortar
coral wren
Keripo has +10 over me.
Not sure if i can even catch up this season.
Oh wait, i dont think keripo is in my server so i still have a chance o.o (probably not)
shell heron
@naive dome if you're on avrora. Rush fast.
Looking at the current top 10 is already hard
coral wren
I am so close to +2 points.
eager cedar
elder crane
Fires I think got patched
Probably with Nagato fix?
I wonder if the other DoTs have been patched too
Anyways, FE fire seems to be 3 ticks now, instead of 2, which I assume means normal fires are 5 ticks like they're supposed to be instead of 4
shell heron
that extra 15% main gun eff is pretty nice.
almost makes me want to start doing cube projects to speed it up
tawdry juniper
does king george work for pvp? with war retro/ monarch / belfast /juneu /yuki
or she´s only worth for pve?
vague token
kgv is strong, just not top
hot creek
KGV is likely viable with that comp.
elder crane
What about Formi/Essex/Sara/U-81 flood and Kiri/Sara/etc. fires?
ripe latch
prime panther
iirc they fixed all floods and burns except for rossiyas
these were all the patched ones
coral wren
Top guy in avrora atm has +31 in comparison to if i used all my exercises.
shell heron
sounds like you didn't sandbag enough
ripe latch
+0.1% to summary winrate 
coral wren
I definitely did not sand bag enough, I had a misunderstanding of how sand bagging worked so I miss out on a lot of points.
vague token
dont expect many points this season, back to back event
plus this one is a 60 clear
usually kills off most of the rushers
eager cedar
Sandbag more 
shell heron
need to use 2 refreshes already. don't want to eat a +9
prime panther
so whats this thing ive been hearing about ryuusei nerf?
light crystal
https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/TBM_Avenger_(VT-18_Squadron) Regardless of anything, I've begun using these on my hiryuu for the last week or so
vague token
only ryuuseis i get are the taihou barrage ones xD
light crystal
They do bonus DMG against BB's, do increased Crash dmg, and Parallel are more reliable at damaging VG's. Win-win.
vague token
they do less crash than cuda though of course
light crystal
I doubt that claim tbh
eager cedar
it allows her to zero down on the backline, when she procs skills
offense, you use the other stuff but i dont even bother using her for offense
coral wren
So for getting blue prints using cube research, does anyone know if having higher cost research but under small project, actually produce better drops?
Ex: purple color research but small project.
hot creek
Position, direction and timing of Ryuusei torp launch used to be based on enemy VG's current position, making it much more accurate especially when you sync with Formi freeze. Awhile ago, they nerfed it so it drops at a fixed position instead. Its been 🚮 for VG nuking purposes ever since. You can still get ok results with it if the enemy VG happens to be in the right location (towards middle of the screen) but many times they're not, much less reliable these days. The un-nerfed Ryuusei would have just nuked them regardless since it tracks their position and drops it at the right time and location as long as Formi freezes them.
light crystal
Doesn't look like BiS if you ask me
hot creek
so its only use nowadays is for Hiryuu nuking backlines when VG's are gone
light crystal
🚮
zenith tundra
only exception is hiryuu that want ryuusei
coral wren
Cudas are best?
zenith tundra
by far
zenith tundra
why bother with rng damage when crash is 100% guaranteed
light crystal
Hmmm. Yeah I dunno
prime panther
how much does crash damage amount to normally?
vague token
also the less meta the opponent the less effective the flood is xD
a lot
cuda has 480 base crash
light crystal
400 (Cuda) Crash Damage over 300 (VT18). Same AA DPS. Lower reload on VT18. Higher alpha payload (VT18), and bonus damage against BB/BC.
So big eh. I'd still go VT18 for Defense. But yeah, guess Ryuseis are gonna be mothballed for PvP on my side then lol
light crystal
Wut is AVF?
zenith tundra
even hitting all torp which never happens vt is inferior to cudas
prime panther
headers would be appriciated
zenith tundra
aviation fuel
zenith tundra
5th column is that. difference is 10 aviation so doesn't really matter
light crystal
But yeah, I'd still stick to VT18. Just seem better imo
zenith tundra
light crystal
Y u repost 🤔
light crystal
I still don't know wut the values mean on ur columns lmao
prime panther
how good is avf + team emblem?
zenith tundra
1st is hit 2nd dps and 3rd crash dmg
the difference goes from 50 dps difference to 70 hitting only 50% torp which is more likely since parallel never hit all
light crystal
Hmm, y is Beacon not better than AVF when using the 25Hit/15Eva aux?
Is it assuming that if two guys are using Hiryuu each, the one using AVF will win more often than not?
zenith tundra
as i said the difference in between them is just 10 aviation
for that calculator at least
light crystal
I just figured that the slightly faster initial takeoff would be better 
zenith tundra
the discussion is vt vs cudas
and cudas are superior in any way
better overall dps better reload more consistent
light crystal
Hmm. Wut is better for Hiryuu when using the 25Hit/15 Eva Aux? Beacon or this? https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/100/150_Aviation_Gasoline
zenith tundra
i wouldn't use that on hiryuu
light crystal
I'm over the TB thing, I'm using VT18 cuz I think they're better. Wut I'm interested is on AVF Vs Beacon lol
zenith tundra
vh armor is mandatory in en
zenith tundra
due to namagi mirror and ws tanking
light crystal
Hmm
zenith tundra
use whatever u want otherwise but armor is best aux to prevent early final counter
ionic magnet
I just figured that the slightly faster initial takeoff would be better
then proceeds to think the slow af VT18 is better than cuda
prime panther
so vh hiryuu to tank ws?
light crystal
When I use Amagi/WK/Nagato, I dont struggle against Namaryuu tho
zenith tundra
tank ws and amagi
zenith tundra
hiryuu defense isn't strong against ws
light crystal
I legit win 99/100, cuz I can only remember like maybe once I've had to reset against Namaryu
zenith tundra
too easy to final counter early due to ws broken damage
but offense she needs to final counter later
light crystal
I always target Amagi for Namaryuu. SOMETIMES, they use Nagato/WS/Hiryuu. In which case I attack Hiryuu. I avoid WK vs WK if I can help it.
zenith tundra
what server are u playing on?
light crystal
OK, so you're suggesting for Defense, VH Armor and 25Hit/15 EVA might be better for Hiryuu, then?
Washington.
eager cedar
zenith tundra
what i use is rudder vh armor
eager cedar
rudder over fuel?
zenith tundra
not that it matters on defense but for offense
light crystal
Eh. Increased Hit and a little reduced EVA sounds better to me tbh
Better kill faster wut is trying to kill u imo
zenith tundra
hiryuu doesn't kill vg
light crystal
Well, I'm trying to make it more annoying for Defense, thats all lol
zenith tundra
and it's bad if she final counters before opponent vg death
light crystal
So for Defense Hiryuu, VH Armor + 25Hit/15 Eva is a good combo, then?
zenith tundra
i don't think namaryuu can really be annoying in the current meta. ws makes it to easy to kill either amagi or hiryuu
even namagi fdg is nothing for ws usually
ionic magnet
Better kill faster wut is trying to kill u imo
this was a legit strat in 2018 when you can blow up anyone before 20 secs
but now you are forced to trade hits anyways so much better to make the most out of those trades
light crystal
Eh, not always. How many of the 2 opening snipe volleys u hit dictate how easy the fight will be
zenith tundra
same problem of having an easy target u can kill
light crystal
If WK misses one, or god forbid 2, of the 2 initial volleys, it's gonna be a tough battle lol
Cuz it does increased DMG on the first opening snipe after all
zenith tundra
i don't believe in that tbh. at least when i use her in jp whatever she hits 1st barrage or not doesn't really change much
light crystal
Or would u suggest that NamagiWK is actually tougher than Namaryuu? Cuz I thought it was the other way around, which is the only reason why I use WK on Attack only and Hiryuu on Defense.
light crystal
So perhaps WK with Rudder + SG radar can work on Defense just as well?
zenith tundra
namaryuu beats namagi ws pretty easily on offense tho
doesn't matter the equip on ws
i never reset against namagi ws. it's easier to reset against mirror with namaryuu
light crystal
Does it? I've stopped using Hiryuu since Taihou came out in EN last year. And I stopped using Taihou in favor of Warspite when the Refit for Wrspite came out, in turn.
zenith tundra
taihou was dead before she even came out for pvp. hiryuu is superior
light crystal
I've always hated Hiryuu on Attack because I felt it was a battle of who proc'd the Blue skill and whatnot, and I found that retarded
Whereas using Taihou and in turn Warspite just felt more reliable lol
I dunno about that tbh
zenith tundra
till u realize that namagi ws cannot tank focus dmg
light crystal
I've been doing PvP since October 2018 like everyday and I can say that I've hated that about Hiryuu
But that's just getting into an argument, so better not go there kek
zenith tundra
hiryuu final counter is, i would say, top 5 skills for pvp. only inferior to juneau, ws broken barrage and around same level as amagi buffs/debuffs
light crystal
But to get back to the earlier point, I guess I'll switch to use AVF over Beacon on Hiryuu for Defense and call it a day
zenith tundra
if u use any non defensive items on her she will final counter early and become totally useless. but i don't think it does matter anyway most of the time for defense
the only team that can ever reset against namaryuu is namaryuu
at least of the meta ones
light crystal
Uhhh
the only team that can ever reset against namaryuu is namaryuu
@zenith tundra What does this mean, I don't get it lol
zenith tundra
that namagi ws should never reset against manaryuu
not sure about wfc but i doubt it ever does
zenith tundra
that u are doing something wrong if u cannot 95%+ win against namaryuu with namagi ws
light crystal
Ahhh
eager cedar
you can easily final proc hiryuu early which is not what you want for her if you are using her for defense
light crystal
No, I get you. Like I said, I only remember resetting against Namaryu's like once or so. Usually not aw problem. Unless RNG really fucks you, which it CAN regardless.
zenith tundra
i wouldn't tbh
light crystal
Like Nagato proc rate, who eats torpedoes and when, general misses on volleys, etc. RNG will always be a factor lol
upper sparrow
nagato bug already fixed? 
light crystal
Yes
prime panther
fixed on maint
light crystal
Wanted to use Suruga for longer tbh, but oh well lol
zenith tundra
fighting namagi fdg without attacker bonus is terrible. it already forces resets any time nagato barrages more then 2/3 times...
ionic magnet
not sure about wfc but i doubt it ever does
wfc only problem is torp memes which any comp can lose against
it absolutely destroys stall VGs
eager cedar
i would prefer an even field for offense and defense, and a replay of defenses would be nice
zenith tundra
so i was right about it not having problems with namaryuu
ionic magnet
yep
eager cedar
but i digress 
ionic magnet
initial testing showed azuma is as good as torp memes so could be a problem in the future also
zenith tundra
without attacker bonus it's pure rng fest
frail orbit
^
zenith tundra
ur amagi didn't proc twice. reset
light crystal
Yeah, I only intend to use NamagiWK on Attack. When ppl start getting their FDG-Dev30/457mm combo on EN at a higher rate, then it's gonna start being an issue, but we're far away from that for now lol
zenith tundra
opponent nagato procced and urs not. reset
ionic magnet
eager cedar
how many people if any on wash have dev30 azuma/fdg?
frail orbit
Which is why just WFC for me most of the time unless
light crystal
Like 0 iirc
light crystal
If ppl do, it's maybe like 2-3 out of 10k+ that have DR Dev 30 and 457mm on Wash.
eager cedar
light crystal
Wut is WFC?
eager cedar
ws, form, cent
zenith tundra
technically there is no wall on defense in current meta. any team can be beaten 1 way or another consistently
light crystal
Well, u need the gear + levels + girls to be maxed to achieve "consistency".
The less u have of that, the less "consistent" ur gonna b
ionic magnet
well atleast namaryuu has ppl complaining how they lost somehow
but i dont think anyone ever lost to wfc
zenith tundra
namagi fdg is easy pray to namagi ws. amagi ws fdg is not good against mirror. namagi ws does nothing to namagi fdg.
light crystal
Ok Hiryuu, u get to use a different toy now.
zenith tundra
as long as u have nagato amagi ws and fdg maxed u can win any match
tbh i don't think awf is better then beacon on defense
beacon screws more with namaryuu then awf
zenith tundra
awf doesn't do much if opponent doesn't have high aa
light crystal
Hmm
zenith tundra
and namagi doesn't have good aa
light crystal
But wouldn't the faster moving planes be better? Like for doing crash dmg before the other, and wut not
zenith tundra
launching earlier does it better tho
light crystal
Unless the 1st initial airstrike being 4% faster somehow tilted the match the other way lmao
Eh, I've leave it like this for now.
zenith tundra
with 5 more speed ur planes reach end of screen around 1s faster which is as much as beacon cdr
light crystal
It may be better overall as well, not just specifically better against Namaryu Attack users lol
zenith tundra
and for 2nd airstrike it's 2s faster with beacon which speed doesn't keep up
light crystal
2 seconds faster. 4% of 20~ second for an airstrike is much closer to 1s lol
light crystal
If the bonus were 15% faster, then it's a no contest, but if we're picking straw for 1s faster overall, if that, then it's eh
Oh it does, you're right lol
Hmmmm
ionic magnet
well avgas also increases plane hp for more crash dmg and more plane speed means they get hit less by enemy AA
light crystal
Ok, I'm putting beacon back then
zenith tundra
does namaryuu have good aa?
ionic magnet
not a fan of beacon tbh
its so niche and only good for adjusting specific timings
light crystal
Fuck. Well then I'll leave it, too much hard thinking over this. Both have pros and cons, so we'll leave it at that
zenith tundra
for wfc i would use avf but hiryuu is solo and getting before opponent hiryuu is better overall
ionic magnet
good AA or not, it still reduces dmg
well its impossible to tell in actual fight whats better anyways
wish we can test it out
zenith tundra
it doesn't even scale that good with plane hp. on average if a plane gets damaged the same amount with awf u don't get 140extra dmg but like 98 due to minimum damage being 30%
light crystal
See, I initially thought Beacon was better myself, but I also thought of the other pros of the AVF, so I was like fuck it, AVF it is then lol
Also, wuts a popular name for the 25Hit/15 Eva aux? Cuz they're two, it's hard to refer to it lol
zenith tundra
testing for defense is really hard. unless u find someone u know that can setup different things. it's not that clear what is overall better since u never truly know what the opponent is using
ionic magnet
i just dont see any value on the 1s faster launch
so i'd rather get a few more crash dmg
but yea its really hard to tell whats better so
zenith tundra
the 1s is just to screw up with mirror
imagine hiryuu vs hiryuu. the one that goes faster wins
ionic magnet
if 1 stray fighter is in the air you can still lose even if you have faster launch
zenith tundra
as i said earlier i don't thin namaryuu will force resets against anything non mirror for meta teams
ionic magnet
but yea ig beacon is better in that case
prime panther
still better than the old enty vs enty
light crystal
https://imgur.com/a/4wEvTQo I guess I'll begin calling it Mark then, maybe the name of the newer one over the two is better known or something 🤔
zenith tundra
which gun?
light crystal
The 25Hit/15 Eva thing. The main reason to use it is for CV's in PvP, then it's got very niche uses as a hobo SG Radar...
zenith tundra
one is called random world generator and the other team emblem
hard to come with a nickname for them
light crystal
nvm, they dont even get a nickname cuz how niche they are
prime panther
just lump them together with sgr
zenith tundra
just people that played those even can even use them
light crystal
But typing 25hit/15Eva is a chore... lol
light crystal
Maybe I should too
zenith tundra
looking at numbers alone i don't think is better then avf/beacon rudder tbh
cv main problem is survivability not damage
zenith tundra
and hit still won't make u hit more if opponent is speed dodging everything
zenith tundra
even formi can't really tank focus dmg
when i tested against ws+fdg focus she didn't really last much
frail orbit
Yeaps
And her saving grace was like
The fact that she's on offense
Otherwise still a lumbering carrier with less eva than Cent
And Cent being fragile anyway
whole terrace
Excield has some interesting fresh perspectives 
I might try the hololive emblem on centaur because her slowing barrage misses really often.
zenith tundra
rwg/te were already included in tier list for a while
i don't see it as a new idea
whole terrace
Well not necessarily as a brand new idea but as a bis option
light crystal
Good combo between Offensiveness/Defensiveness.
whole terrace
Not just that particular point though.
zenith tundra
i haven't played with cv that much but the in the attempts i had in jp cv would just randomly die to 457 shoots even with rudder. i don't think rwg is that good of an idea in jp meta
it wasn't often by any means but it's still happened more then a few times
light crystal
I'm at 31/50. I hope I don't loose on the race to if badly enough to impact me too much.
whole terrace
I'm shifting towards ws monarch amagi in the next week or so anyway
elder crane
Beacon Hiryuu also lets you outstrip nonbeacon Enty etc. better than you'd normally do
also lets you outspeed some BB shots
zenith tundra
i like that comp better then with qe but overall is not that different. amagi does make it easier for vg and less prone to bad rng but not necessarily much better
elder crane
I run bombercuda+beacon on mine to get that slight timing edge
cuda over Ryuus felt really bad damage-wise
light crystal
Oh hey Blue, I asked u ALEC earlier when ryuseis were nerfed. Just curious cuz I never relly knew when it happenedcuz ive only heard of it recently
elder crane
anyways, since final counter is backloaded, Hiryuu doesn't care too much about AA
not that meta teams have much of it to begin with
it was the plane retargeting balance patch, the "nerf"
zenith tundra
it was nerfed around/after formie event
light crystal
So summer last year? Damn
zenith tundra
it works better in pve but much worse in pvp
elder crane
basically, TBs used to drop after a fixed time after launch
now, they drop a fixed distance from their target
for Ryuus, they used to drop nearly on top of vanguards
now, they have that ~1.5 s travel time
light crystal
So they miss more or something?
elder crane
basically
avgas used to make aimed torps drop backwards (slightly, when targeting vanguard)
zenith tundra
that change made hiryuu way worse overall. she could kill vg alone before. now she needs other ships to do it for her
also why more defensive setups become more useful on her too
she misses too much with vg around so dmg is not worth running with ryuusei
elder crane
Ryuus you use for smacking main fleet after vanguard is dead
with final counter etc.
zenith tundra
yeah but if u don't kill vg before final counter is bad
elder crane
if you don't kill vg before final counter, well
unless it's vs warkai
then you win cause you stalled out warkai
zenith tundra
and overall vg killing capabilities went down after ryuusei nerf for namaryuu
elder crane
https://youtu.be/btbJN-y-_FY?t=140
Oh hey, I forgot about this thing too
zenith tundra
hiryuu sniping main with vg around
elder crane
cause targeting was buggy, sometimes the ryuus would say
"fuck it"
and target flagship instead 
frail orbit
Good old day
zenith tundra
how could u forget that it was amazing
frail orbit
When it's still historically a bit accurate
elder crane
basically there was a limit that only 10 entities could target any unit, iirc
so sometimes that made targeting really wonky
also meant that for formi in particular, something about her barrage made it so that if you launched Formi into singular targets, sometimes some of her planes wouldn't drop munitions at all
that's the trigger for patching it
zenith tundra
they also changed ryuusei because on her she would shoot torp backwards
frail orbit
Still a letdown anyway
zenith tundra
formie fixed planes in al
frail orbit
Given that w/o Ryuuseis or kamikaze Cuda
She cant even damage backline
If using old Ryusei
elder crane
bombercuda memes
zenith tundra
i never really minded that in pve. it was pretty consistent at hitting stuff for how bad ryuusei was back then in pve
frail orbit
Meh, I'd rather have Firefly + TB Cuda anyway
Assuming am still using Ryusei on Cent
And still is til now
zenith tundra
dps wise 831 is better then helldivers. i double checked math so much on cv but it's always overall better in pvp
frail orbit
And how on earth? Against backline then yes but how tf a single 1600 AP keks
zenith tundra
crash dmg broken
frail orbit
I meant against backline there's that kamikaze
zenith tundra
even hitting all bombs with helldivers is still not better
frail orbit
Obviously but the thing is
I want my VG to survive a lot
Which is always the thing
VG unscathed
Enemies go away
Then move forward
zenith tundra
i tried in practice and helldivers feel better because u need to kill vg on hiryuu
frail orbit
Which is why am still keeping on Ryusei
On Cent
Backline? Am using Wakai comp anyway
light crystal
So I just timed the Airstrike on Hiryuu to see. Mind, might not be exact by millisecond cuz human responsiveness, lag, wut not, but good enough to see for comparison reasons.
21.02 VT18 - AVF
20.35 VT18 - Beacon
19.16 Cuda - Beacon
elder crane
I'm using 818+beacon for speed memez
but also
Currently, lower devlv Azuma means vanguards are squish
Azuma just blows everything up
frail orbit
Personally not a fan of Namaryuu on offense
No guarantee that enemy VG gonna be exploding ASAP
Same w/ Namawakai but Namawakai trades that for nuking the backline anyway
elder crane
Ehh
you reliably win vanguard fight anyways
so it's whatever
zenith tundra
i always use namaryuu and i still prefer it to namagi ws in any case. i usually don't have to reset anyway
elder crane
as long as Hiryuu either stalls out warkai or survives until after vanguard fight is decided, she does very well
frail orbit
Not for me at least when I ran torpmeme keks
light crystal
Blue, u think VT18 can be viable on Hiryuu (Defense). I always use WK for Attack
light crystal
Cuz using VT18 means one second slower. But potentially more DMG against VG?
elder crane
which is the only thing that would make it worth using
frail orbit
Timing purposes pls
Also no need for the flood when it hits like
Just a bit of the backline
elder crane
300 vs 480 crash damage, no thanks
you need the flood for it to be worth running over cuda
frail orbit
^
zenith tundra
actual timing is:
21.13 vt18
20.28 vt18 beacon
19.92 cuda
19.12 cuda beacon
light crystal
Is Crash Dmg per plane that makes it over the line? And is it influenced by AVI stat/DMG modifiers?
elder crane
yes, crash damage ignores evasion check and scales with everything plane damage usually scales with, minus slot efficiency
it ignores slot eff, that's all
well, also extra remaining HP mutiplier
which scales linearly from 100% to 30% damage for 100% to 0% HP
(0 damage ofc if it's shot down, but lol at that in PvP)
light crystal
So is it 400 per plane? So 1.2k/2.4k if all 6 make it over the line?
frail orbit
Why 6
zenith tundra
much more then that
elder crane
it's 480*aviation mods*AA dred*other scale effects
frail orbit
Its hiryuu
elder crane
aviation mod usually around 8 or so
AA dred usually around 1/4
Nagato perfectly cancels out the -20% penalty for CVs
and then you have defense doing -20% damage in general
light crystal
Well, guess I ll check in a bit after I do my set with WS rn lol
whole terrace
i like that comp better then with qe but overall is not that different. amagi does make it easier for vg and less prone to bad rng but not necessarily much better
@zenith tundra sorry had to go afk. How do u think it stacks up against the meta?
frail orbit
Which is why am using Firefly instead of Helldiver
More crash dmg anyway
Not that much of a drop too
From 831 VT18
elder crane
WS Monarch Amagi?
should be okayish
I'm running WS Amagi Hiryuu right now actually, for testing
whole terrace
yeah ws monarch amagi
frail orbit
X2
elder crane
it's standard DB crash damage
frail orbit
From amount of DB
elder crane
DB slot on Formi is even lower eff, no?
also I'd much rather take a fighter
you double-dip on fighter crash due to intercept launch
zenith tundra
i had some tests with it. it does ok would say fine against most ws teams since u can have amagi with defensive gear tanking without sacrificing much dmg. it does well against namagi fdg too since u can just snipe opponent amagi easily and monarch focusing down nagato
elder crane
it's like 150*2, or *3 crash damage
zenith tundra
no interception against 3 bb tho
whole terrace
Oh u used amagi to tank barrages despite her medium armour?
zenith tundra
armor rudder amagi
frail orbit
And how tf it matters anyway against Namawakai Namaryuu
whole terrace
Oh i don't have armour.
zenith tundra
u can use beaver rudder too
elder crane
let's take VF-17 for comparison
Firefly is 210
VF-17 is 148, you get crash twice or maybe even 3 times per cycle
frail orbit
I personally just want extra VG kill ASAP anyway since I cant kill VG with my VG
Unreliable
whole terrace
Ok I'll try that. ty
elder crane
how shitty is your VG that you're losing the fight....
light crystal
Fuck, it's hard to sort out the Crash dmg bubble when ur BB's and other crap are also shooting them. Would be nice if it were like some other games where each damage number has their own color based on wut did it. Like red for shell, blue torp, green CV, etc lol
elder crane
Jint 
elder crane
but yeah, there's your issue
frail orbit
Perhaps Jin tank so just go pearl?
zenith tundra
it's the same setup u would have on qe since u just need her for the buff not dmg and amagi would deal more dmg then qe even with that setup but u do lose some dmg on monarch and warspite for a more consistent vg fight and tankier backline
frail orbit
She'd be killed ASAP anyway
Which negates anything
But naahhhh
Her buff still there
At least it aint Amagi
Ehhh
It's when she'd alive anyway
elder crane
Warkai flag btw is working out pretty well so far
frail orbit
whole terrace
Yeah looking forward to 10% eva rate and the aimed barrage. I'll tell how it goes
whole terrace
I actually run sg rudder on qe atm
frail orbit
Derp on ya
Time to ditch Jinkai perhaps?
Just went to Jun again smhw
Personally this was bkoz a certain peep on ALIC asked me
To use no Juneau zzzz
light crystal
Would NamagiWK Defense be alright if I used Rudder/SG on WK?
zenith tundra
well beaver rudder is to tank 457 ws but not sure how well amagi tanks without armor with sg rudder
elder crane
My current experiment
So far, loss in hit stat for no Nagato is quite annoying... will need to fight serious teams some more to get a proper feel
frail orbit
Am not even experiencing shit beforehand with my usual yuki noshi jun
light crystal
I'm have Rudder/FCT Nagato, Rudder/Beaver Amagi and SG/WS on Warskai
elder crane
FCR on Nagato imo is very much a waste
light crystal
I use White Shell on WK cuz I use her for Atatck
frail orbit
How about if I said this
Impossible w/o Juneau?
It's just too much of a derp for me to ditch her altogether tbh
elder crane
Juneau is unavoidably critical
whole terrace
I'll try both. Beaver rudder feels overkill against namaryuu tho. I've actually played Houtarou's team a few times, the guy with the 457 on warkai
elder crane
There's some setups that do ok without her
frail orbit
And meanwhile the one requested me wants me to use no Juneau for his shit
elder crane
but they all would be better with her, pretty much...
zenith tundra
when i tested amagi ws hiryuu namaryuu was quite a pain sometimes
elder crane
The only decent non-Jun vanguards that I've tried are all PR-heavy
light crystal
I dont consider FCR on Nagato a waste when I see my Nagato an enemy Nagato sync their Big Sevens perfectly, ergo meaning that they're using FCR on theirs too. Not until there's enough of a shift of ppl NOT using FCR on their Nagato is it a waste
frail orbit
Might as well saying this, just use your Juneau keks
elder crane
it's basically Noshiro Azuma Yukikaze or with Ibuki subbing in for Azuma or Yukikaze
frail orbit
He have no Nugget or any PR so . . .
Might as well saying his career already ended anyway
elder crane
Erm
Big 7 Sakura travels so slowly that a non-FCR Nagato launches hers before FCR Nagato hits
Amagi, on the other hand
light crystal
I run Juneau/Noshrio/YKKZ, and it works just fine. Like 250+ BP's away from Dev 30 Azuma, so much use in worrying over alternatives of using her kek
frail orbit
And who tf used FCR on nugget
zenith tundra
457 is the point where nagato gets hit by 2nd barrage without shooting hers
elder crane
HPFCR Amagi will hit her barrage well before non-HPFCR Amagi launches hers
frail orbit
^
light crystal
Not running Beaver/Rudder on the thing that's keeping my Mainline eHP high, no thanks
elder crane
she's slightly squish (aka sandwich her and run Noshiro), but she's already blowing up vanguards hard
light crystal
I can see it running on WK as useful, but eh
vague token
i swapped to double sg warspite cause i needed the hit without killing my durability
hsfcr wasnt working with taihou/formi
xD
zenith tundra
amagi doesn't tank with hiryuu around usually so full dmg is fine
elder crane
Or at least half-damage
frail orbit
On Namawakai she'd tank
light crystal
SG/Rudder Amagi can be an alternative. Thing is, gotta put Beaver on SOMEBODY, for speed boost on VG anyway lmao
frail orbit
Wakai snipe
light crystal
So it's either Amagi or Nagato, and it works betetr in Amagi, so eh
elder crane
Beaver on Nagato, with the SG you're replacing HPFCR with
frail orbit
Nah Nugget was never the user for it
elder crane
net +10 Eva
elder crane
I actually run DrH on her now
light crystal
Eh. I'll be keeping FCR on Nagato. Would be nice having two of them tho, so I can put one on WK or Amagi and Nagato
elder crane
Nagato that is
frail orbit
Same
light crystal
Alas, EN was the bad child
elder crane
FCR still doesn't get put on Nagato with two of them
unless you're running Hiryuu
frail orbit
JP too
elder crane
JP doesn't get second either
light crystal
Oh goody
frail orbit
Only CN got it
zenith tundra
nagato usefulness is to keep rng balanced with opponent nagato. without her if u get terrible rng with opponent nagato u can lose on offense
light crystal
Another server to share the pain with
elder crane
Nagato usefulness is the massive boosts to IJN she provides
frail orbit
^
zenith tundra
u can win without that tho
light crystal
I would use Suruga over Nagato, but not having ACC/Reload/Torp boost on Noishiro/YKKZ was too much to give up lol
zenith tundra
it's harder to win against 3 opponent nagato barrages in a row
frail orbit
Heck FC comp all day sounds better than that thx very much
elder crane
there's no torp boost
light crystal
There isnt?
zenith tundra
nagato buff acc fp cv dmg and reload
light crystal
Ohh you're right
elder crane
+20% hit
+10% FP
+20% reload
+20% CV damage
which is additive with -20% for CV, so effectively +25%
light crystal
Yamato better boost Torp too to make her a good alternative over Nagato then
light crystal
Yamato, same buffs as Nagato, except also boosts Torp damage by 10%
elder crane
tbh yes
but I also swapped out Nagato
and it worked better
elder crane
also
I've still Nagato swapped out right now
I want to see how that goes...
zenith tundra
it worked better with no good defenses tho
meager dawn
@light crystal backline torpmemes 
elder crane
so far it feels better, ngl
vague token
wfc 
zenith tundra
i think u understand why i think ws amagi fdg is better then namagi teams
vague token
wft 
elder crane
and instead
Jintsuu?
ionic magnet
daily reminder that mikasa is still breezing through gensui rush
vague token
oh wait i can just call ws/taihou/formi team wtf
vague token
elder crane
I'd take Aurora, or just go full stall
frail orbit
Siri, or just slap Yuki Jun Noshi smhw
ionic magnet
nah full stall is the way to go for wfc
along with double cuda
elder crane
Jun Azuma Noshiro
non-PR, Noshiro Jun Ykkz
tbh
because of fricken Hiryuu
yep
full stall
frail orbit
Double cuda is always better
But depend on whether u wanna kill VG ASAP go Ryusei on Cent is fine
Also stall >>>>> torpmeme
Thx very much
ionic magnet
well i say full stall but now we have azuma as a dps and stall at the same time
elder crane
HFC though, that can go Sirius or Aurora
light crystal
U guys think Jun/Azuma/Noshiro is viable?
frail orbit
Why not
zenith tundra
imo not better then yukikaze version
elder crane
That's what I've been running the past while
works better than Jun Azuma Yukikaze with not-yet-dev25 Azuma
otherwise it's too fragile
frail orbit
^
elder crane
well, it's just the right amount to be problematic
ionic magnet
yea
elder crane
also Noshiro helps stop Jun from being smacked so hard
vague token
i use noshiro because i use dr share mains anyways