no wonder namaryuu is under namagi ws
#pvp
zenith tundra
u can beat namagi fdg with namaryuu easily with over 90% win rate bah
next time i find gonna record it
elder crane
yeah, I believe newer ones all call for rudder on Hiryuu
frail orbit
And usually being considered racist there on CN
sterile bluff
so u r saying namaryuu still above namaspite
elder crane
that's one from last september, so 
frail orbit
Namaryu always above Namawakai, am I wrong? If for def fleet anyway
elder crane
yes
frail orbit
Havent even seen any D20 FDG atm
sterile bluff
dunno what they r doing
frail orbit
Even on Avrora
elder crane
that tierlist is "overall"
also they do have testing vids on this, against friends with known setups
sterile bluff
but the ppl in gph were like "omg namaspite is a lot better than namaryuu statistically speaking"
fucking zoomers
sterile bluff
even on offense namaryuu still good
frail orbit
But truth is
PVP is a cucked hell
sterile bluff
shhhh we don't talk about that here
elder crane
well
- offense BB advantage
- offense RNG requirements
basically
defense teams actively want more RNG, since they're disfavored to begin with
offense teams hate it
zenith tundra
ws amagi fdg imo anti rng comp. u know what ur ship do
elder crane
if you have a 100% consistent defense fleet
it will 100% consistently lose
basically
zenith tundra
no 40% barrage and amagi 70% is barelly relevant
sterile bluff
but if u don't have a 100% consistent def fleet
the attacker will just reset until ur def fleet gets shit rng
elder crane
well, it depends on your goal
sterile bluff
so if u r consistent u at least have a chance to win if u overpower them
zenith tundra
nagato works on defense becasue of rng
sterile bluff
elder crane
if your goal is to wall out shitters who don't even challenge ranking
then sure, consistency
if your goal is to try to trigger people with good fleets
then you need that RNG
sterile bluff
elder crane
that is a bigger contribution to why torps are better on defense fleet than fleet positioning reasons, imo
in any case
anyone you can actually wall isn't dangerous to begin with
better to try to screw over someone who would challenge you with RNG wins, either them not paying attention, or stalling them past a reset (for sandbagger), or just stalling them enough so you get your rush in first
you've seen people here complain about RNG losses making them lose charges when they sandbag a bit too close to resets 
zenith tundra
i don't think i ever lost charges to rng matches. maybe because i don't really take risks and tbh considering how scoring system works and 35 pts difference u can easily take ur time and use 3-4 attempts in the last 7 min withput giving anyone the chance to get points out of u
elder crane
it's less letting people get points out of you, but more chance to get points off of someone
say someone does the last few attempts, ending 5 min beforehand
you won't be able to get bonus off of them, but someone who did wait more could have
and then they get walled 
zenith tundra
u must be willing to risk a lot to rush last 5min. doesn't seem worth to me risking all the effort of a season for a +1. and i would still prefer to stall at that point then an rng reset. forcing over 1m fights with a very defensive team
buoyant parrot
I'm out this season after missing 1 attempt
zenith tundra
i'm missing 3 but my score was bad to begin with
buoyant parrot
zenith tundra
i had to other better rusher then u in my list
current rank 1
i still don't get how they tought that having this is a good thing. nagato and fdg literally shoot at the same time asking to hit water if someone actually dies
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=finlkqxrRWs
coral wren
is chapayev good in pvp as a sub for aurora?
zenith tundra
not really. aurora works for cruisers too while chapayev only dd
cl are more used if u consider that only yukikaze is meta as a dd
zenith tundra
aurora affects on average 2/3 ships if u consider ibuki and azuma being used and sometimes even 3/3. chapayev is 1/3 at best
frail orbit
3/3 if enemy used Noshi/Jinkai
zenith tundra
noshi yuki juneau is meta too
zenith tundra
and also not to mention that chapayev skill in 10% only vs 20% aurora
it's just too hard to justify using chapayev over anything else meta when even aurora is not that used and she is inferior to her
elder crane
If you want general info, check pins
if you want specific info, show ships, and tell us whether you're looking for a team to build into long-term, or just what's best with pretty much just what you have now, or whatever other restrictions you want
btw Amagi event rerun is coming next week, and that's a major pickup for PvP
raven ether
umm,maybe list for ship that have immunity or shield?
humble geyser
shields?
elder crane
If you go to wiki page for skills, look for evasion/shield/immune
that'll give you all of them
if you want ones that are relevant
Basically just Hiryuu
ionic magnet
does Noshiro skill and Torp bulge stack?
@safe meteor it does stack multiplicatively
raven ether
okk thank you 
elder crane
Enty and Eld hang around in the fringes tbf
humble geyser
Enty works fine depending on your backline, and Aurora and belfast seem ok
safe meteor
also, Enty can have a fake Owari da, depending what gear she has
shell heron
that type of evasion skill, I see
elder crane
erm, he asked for immunity skills...
safe meteor
like if you got the golden rudder or the VF-17,
but i mean Enty sometimes looks like she gets no immunity skill
elder crane
you look for skill popup rather than voiceline
safe meteor
not used to it
raven ether
is laffey good?
elder crane
in PvP? no
safe meteor
pve yes, pvp no
elder crane
DDs in general are shittier than usual in PvP due to evasion mechanics
raven ether
hmmm
elder crane
Yukikaze is the only majorly relevant one
safe meteor
Ayanami for torp fleet
elder crane
Aya isn't even top selection for torp fleets
safe meteor
not anymore i guess
raven ether
kk thank you guys
silent ocean
hmm
so this what i have atm understand first thing is to get to 120 in order to start movin up the ranks but who should i remove and keep to build around?
elder crane
Long Island gets yeeted to dorm waifu queen
Yukikaze stays for sure
Port/Rossiya is next to go, then Enty/Bel, if you want to further improve
silent ocean
yeah plan to put amagi in once i get her up
elder crane
Though really, Enty/Bel is good enough to stay if you don't care too much
silent ocean
kk
elder crane
Port/Rossiya aren't terrible either, but will probably make it near-impossible to win vs the very "best" teams
Enty/Bel are good enough to hang on, but won't be the best options
silent ocean
yeah pretty much stuck at captains for now since the level difference but wanted to start lookin at comp cause i feel like its more then just that
rossiya yeets most entys or back lines issue is killing the enemy vanguard
elder crane
Anyways, for now, just Yeet LI for Amagi next week, and work from there
port and Rossiya are good PvE ships, and being 10 levels down matters more than team comp, so they probably still stay in for a while
silent ocean
got it ty
elder crane
Bel is ehh
she's in that weird spot where she's not optimal for PvE or PvP
imo I'd just drop her
silent ocean
issue is shes the only oath ed ship and gems are scarce to come by :/ regret oathing her over yuki >.<
elder crane
Well, waifu reasons are as good as any to use a ship
she's still good enough in PvE and PvP that she won't hold you back much if you like her
silent ocean
if you wouldnt mind i can dm my dock to see if i have any decent ships to put in or would synergize with what i have for now
cool or na?
elder crane
sure
if you post as imgur album, we don't mind you posting it here either
btw if you haven't heard about it
if you use secretary selection screen, you can filter while ignoring what ships are in what fleet
i.e. say if you order by level, it actually orders by level, instead of putting ships in fleets etc first
tends to be much neater that way
silent ocean
can give it a shot lets see
o really? yeah ive seen that fleet ignored the filter thing good to know ty
vague token
bel with russia he gun might be ok in pve against like sirens
but it's basically why not use london instead
same oil cost lel
crude mortar
the reason you need stall with rng chance to win defensive is when u rushing at last 5min u dont want to give other people point
u rush at last 5min nobody gonna get +1 from you
shell heron
rushing at the last 5 minutes sound risky unless you only have 3 matches left
or already at 5/10
empty grove
Most people high enough to beat you out can only + off you on your 4th or 5th match
So you only need to hold onto those two
Also 5 minutes is usually efficient enough anyway for having all matches done cause assuming someone waits on you to push, they still need to do 3-4 matches
One stall & they drop
shell heron
In that case yes, 5 minutes is usually more than enough time for 2 matches
I don't feel comfortable with anymore than that
sour oasis
Flex fleets on defense are pointless (Fite me)
But most good offense fleets, if you're not using PvP to gain xp (win or lose), have to be altered depending on enemy formation (to counter specific ships like Enterprise, Warspite, Hiryu, etc.)
Unless you have a bunch of level 120 oathed ships. Then anything goes.
zenith tundra
should an ehp calc have ships separated by vg/main?
sour oasis
@crude mortar Your defense fleet doesn't affect people passing you; people beat someone else to pass. You can't pass someone you just beat AND get +1.
sour oasis
Flex will flex. But it's not a gameplay mechanic.
I don't mind if people flex for flexing. Just don't flex because you believe there's an in-game benefit.
zenith tundra
can someone express some opinion on my question pls... is it fine like that or too limited?
cv seem like would matter for vg
shell heron
What is the current ehp calc like? I suppose a better question is on which enemy ship are you calculating against
zenith tundra
my current ehp calc is a bunch of names
sour oasis
Which eHP, the individual ship or taking consideration of team compilations?
zenith tundra
i want to create a table with all ships in relation to all ships
but it's too messy if u just do vg and main together
sour oasis
What if a ship has two popular load outs?
zenith tundra
but cv are relevant for vg quite a lot so is nagato for example
i plan 3 loadouts
per ship
i might just make a 3rd table for vg ehp vs main fleet
sour oasis
That's messy. Sounds like you need a stacked database over spreadsheet table
zenith tundra
idk how to make that tbh
sour oasis
Then maybe limit the list to top 50 ships?
sour oasis
That's still more than 50. (I think)
crude mortar
zenith tundra
and i want to separate them in main vs main vg vs vg and vg vs main
on different tabs
sour oasis
That makes sense.
zenith tundra
too much
sour oasis
It would be too much of an info dump without the split.
ionic magnet
normally you would just take attacker and defender stats and just be done with it
too much variations if you want to do it 1 by 1
zenith tundra
the problem is that all ships have different stats and it's not like pve where only bosses have specific numbers
ionic magnet
yea thats why you let ppl input the stats of their botes
or do you want to make a calc for lazy shikikans
zenith tundra
i want something that i can use to show the difference in between good loadout and bad loadout pretty much
like showing that no evasion or hit is much worse then using what is suggested
and as well have math for ship tankiness with good loadouts
ionic magnet
well what i do is manually calculate final stats with gear then just slap into ehp formula
i like your idea but too much work imo
zenith tundra
the stats wouldn't be the problem itself i can just copy paste stats from wiki and calculate max oath ones
i'm just thinking about the format itself
zenith tundra
i'll put all ships in the tl for now but even having let's say 25 is still a lot
ionic magnet
dont think you should put all of them tbh
atleast on defender just put namaryuu/ws/fdg with the usual jun/ykkz/x
ionic magnet
yea but in reality only namaryuu/ws/fdg is relevant
zenith tundra
feels so arbitrary
vague token
i mean a calculator shouldnt be for tier lists
there's no reason to calculate the top meta choices
they're been solved
just post the math already up front
zenith tundra
it is since it's pvp
vague token
a calculator should be for outside of meta
ionic magnet
ehh
vague token
because you're doing experiments and need to check numbers COMPARED to meta
meta is a solved solution, no let everyone punch in the numbers
zenith tundra
idk i still want to see the numbers for meta stuff myself
karmic forum
Are we just calculating eHp values with the PvP boost applied to it?
ionic magnet
but whats the point of calculating vs non meta defs
zenith tundra
yes
vague token
so what's the point of calculating then
it's meta
no need to think about it
the only time you need brain power is off meta
ionic magnet
no i mean non meta def
not non meta atk
vague token
i mean you could use like a drop down of common loadouts
ionic magnet
literally zero point in experimenting vs non meta def cos its just not happening
zenith tundra
so what defense should only be nagato amagi warspite fdg.... talk about informative
forgot hiryuu
vague token
i mean, yeah that's the point, any sort of calculator is going to be for research experimentation
which is strictly non-meta already
xD
vague token
maybe you could write something to lift the wiki ship by stats tables and input them into a database
so you could just do drop downs
select attacker
zenith tundra
like for someone new having problem with enty not seeing her there is not helpful
zenith tundra
the problem is i want to be based off loadout in the tl not random stuff
vague token
in which case there's no point on the calculator, just do them all manually
random stuff is always the focus of a calculator
so you can choose any combo you want
ionic magnet
like i said just input final stats of attacker vs defender and bam youre done
vague token
cause if you're doing fixed sets, then you just put end results and call it a label
zenith tundra
it's a god damn table it will only have final values for the loadouts
sterile bluff
uhh the table's not working 
zenith tundra
can't work with people talking a lot
vague token
xD
zenith tundra
ok so all ships on defense is a bad idea
ionic magnet
zenith tundra
i want some names including some non meta stuff that can be a threat like enty
for new players
ionic magnet
yea sure
vague token
hood is obvious then
ionic magnet
im just saying you can prolly forget about half of ships in tl
im just worried about your sanity
zenith tundra
it's for future proof and fdg will be on defense
vague token
id personally say phoenix/edinburgh/cleve
ionic magnet
shell heron
what you want to do sounds like advance excel/access work. create multiple databases to reference.
zenith tundra
it's gonna be easy once i have stats done since i can copy paste formulas
vague token
that's easy
sterile bluff
nah im srs bro
zenith tundra
how do u calculate patterns
vague token
just do it manually like arknights drop tables
sterile bluff
there's so much CV bullcrap out there i wanna add some BB stuff
vague token
they made a website for it lol
ionic magnet
yea lol
sterile bluff
ill start with theoretical dmg
maybe ill add estimated effective dmg later
wait...
that's not gonna work then...
zenith tundra
amagi ws nagato hiryuu fdg enty hood monarch
nothing more then this for backlines?
sterile bluff
cuz if it's only theoretical nagato and fdg gonna be like
shell heron
like you want to calculate average barrage damage?
ionic magnet
yes lets forget QE cos who cares
sterile bluff
nothing more then this for backlines?
@zenith tundra monarch QE
ionic magnet
vague token
saratoga, she can be acquired pretty early
and if they smol brain and look at pve tier lists she'll be used
RNGer for oil friendly
sterile bluff
u might wanna add akaga too
zenith tundra
what about foxes?
vague token
yeah foxes of course
sterile bluff
add them
sterile bluff
WHAT
zenith tundra
her dmg is bad on offense
vague token
wouldnt new players use them cause they're accessible retros?
ionic magnet
what
vague token
and the bait of the skills would make players try both
zenith tundra
why bother with her on defense
ionic magnet
QE died the moment kgv/formi came
sterile bluff
QE monarch ws is pretty good
vague token
no new player will have kgv nor formi
sterile bluff
and she's accessible to newer players
ionic magnet
yea im just memeing
zenith tundra
it is but the problem is that qe is not a threat herself
zenith tundra
u don't care about qe damage
sterile bluff
u r calculating ehp right?
zenith tundra
yes so why do i have to include a ship that does no dmg
sterile bluff
because she is used
vague token
because someone will be using them
sterile bluff
^^^
vague token
because they dont have others
ionic magnet
zenith tundra
ok whatever
sterile bluff
"in pvp we look at comps as a whole"
zenith tundra
i meant on defense not offense
zenith tundra
on offense all ships in tl will be there
vague token
you either go thorough, or you just skip all the non-meta
sterile bluff
i mirror offense
vague token
i would personally just do total buffs
zenith tundra
that's a bit of a problem tbh....
vague token
instead
ionic magnet
yea
ionic magnet
or we can just ignore qe buff cos its 🚮
sterile bluff
vague token
which leads us back to is this meta, or is this newcomer friendly
zenith tundra
it's really hard tho because ws without qe is very used
and qe has that evasion stat boost
ionic magnet
yea p much 2x the work for every hms
vague token
since they'll be using her in pve a lot
zenith tundra
again it's still based off tl and i see no lusty there. at that point is not like she is much different then other cv
zenith tundra
i mostly meant it to compare loadouts.
ionic magnet
good for peeps who want to experiment with non meme comps ig
vague token
i dont see why a loadout comparison cant be used with every ship
like it's just a calculator at that point
zenith tundra
so back to my idea of including all ships in tl on defense too
zenith tundra
i just want to show people the difference in between them picking let's say double shells and them picking sg rudder
vague token
i mean you could just post a screenshot of the math
i wouldnt put a calculator just for meta
that isnt a calculator
xD
zenith tundra
or i can make a table with all the data there
ionic magnet
or i can make a table with all the data there
i thought thats what youre doing already? but yea that works too
zenith tundra
that was the point
zenith tundra
so how does dr works with hp just a multiplier?
like how does 0.8 dmg taken translates to extra hp
vague token
i usually just do hp / (1 - dr)
zenith tundra
ok
is this right?
(hp/(1-0.2)/(1-0.2)
considering 1st dr is due to backline and 2nd due to pvp offensive advantage?
vague token
uh, multiply the drs together
zenith tundra
the pinned message says after all the others
vague token
oh yeah you can do it that way
zenith tundra
If you're attacking, you take 0.8x damage AFTER ALL OF THE ABOVE plus skills etc. are applied
sterile bluff
oh rly?
phewwww
that means i got plenty of time
might even be able to dev30 fdg
got like 9 months
zenith tundra
en will take a while for pr3 since pr 2 wasn't long ago
karmic forum
Reasonably we'll get it around the same time we got PR2 last year
sterile bluff
which was?
karmic forum
December iirc
frail orbit
^
sterile bluff
oof ok
zenith tundra
19th december
frail orbit
Told ya
karmic forum
The nature of DRs means that most people probably won't be finished by that time though
frail orbit
^
karmic forum
But the people who invest in it heavily will be done
sterile bluff
exactly
frail orbit
Better drops than coin ones
zenith tundra
10-11 months total with only gold should be doable
sterile bluff
yea and that's only gold
sterile bluff
cubes make things a shit ton faster
frail orbit
Peeps gonna already hv FDG Azuma d30
sterile bluff
what can i do?
karmic forum
My goal is to be done with PR2 completely by the time PR3 comes out
So dev 30 azuma/fdg + one 457mm
sterile bluff
for me that looks kinda hard
ok ill aim for at least dev25 DRs
that's gotta be doable
sterile bluff
oh if i 🐳 i should easily get d30
frail orbit
Get extra 1 coobs everyday
sterile bluff
i already have trade license 
karmic forum
You also have to commit hard into getting the universal DR bps
sterile bluff
way aheada ya brother
frail orbit
^
sterile bluff
ill grind events like there's no tmr
karmic forum
Pretty much get every single farmable DR bp
sterile bluff
and stop buying boxes
karmic forum
Which helps a lot in the long run
frail orbit
Laugh in mk6 and 410 purple
sterile bluff
research drops so slow
karmic forum
You will run out of the need for boxes long before you have enough DR bps
frail orbit
^
sterile bluff
whatever i didn't buy any boxes from last event
karmic forum
So even as a new player I strongly urge you to get DR bps unless you know that you aren't going to take this game that seriously
sterile bluff
but to get a cuda from research?
damn that's gotta take a while
cuz there's like over 9000 possible non pr gear bps
frail orbit
And who tf said it should be Cuda?
frail orbit
Cuda only?
frail orbit
Topkeks
karmic forum
If you just want to mess around and roll for a few ships every so often then you can skip DR bps entirely
sterile bluff
ryuuseis
sterile bluff
yes ma'am
frail orbit
JUST F4CKIN DO IT.
sterile bluff
frail orbit
Sure
sterile bluff
what other choice do i have tho?
frail orbit
But ryusei
sterile bluff
i need to get ryuseis one way or another
frail orbit
Unless u want crash dmg
sterile bluff
research isn't cooperating
zenith tundra
wait for suruga raid event rerun (if it ever does)
sterile bluff
cherry blossoms?
frail orbit
It's too long u doofus
frail orbit
Basically smacking Suruga's oppai
sterile bluff
dang, im listening
sterile bluff
WTF.........
they gave u all those triple 410s...
i need dat shit yo...
and that ryuusei too
karmic forum
Its the bps not the actual gun
karmic forum
But yeah you get enough bps if you farm 24k
karmic forum
Its also trivial to farm because its just one battle and you get 100pts per
zenith tundra
is this math right? like does it seems ok?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bIMMUpiKm3SSPhMU9pMh9tyN8FyKWK9JvqPREdFBbSI/edit#gid=0
vague token
that looks about right
i think the only problem is that the right side doesnt list the build
they all default to the Top Slot looks like?
zenith tundra
i'll make a disclaimer saying that equip for defensive ships is what is considered bis
like akagi rudder + avgas/beacon
sg rudder for most bb
zenith tundra
why..
zenith tundra
58.97% 38.37% 41,741.35
64.79% 33.79% 38,438.30
that's the difference
seems ok
but dunno really
vague token
i think it's a vanguard oriented build
cause hit on main doesnt matter
like wiping vanguard
im not sure how the dps ends up compared to gas
zenith tundra
u use avgas + that
vague token
oh ok
vague token
it's up to you
how much branching goes in
your table xD
new players wont have fake sg anyways
xD
vague token
zenith tundra
problem still is that cv need hp to survive till 2nd airstrike
zenith tundra
nah i meant as no one even bothered trying her or adding her to tl before hiryuu retro
zenith tundra
guess the tl was really abandoned for a while...
vague token
gonna meme with her and formidable
as a fake centaur/formidable but with extra thiccness
sterile bluff
ye
sterile bluff
oh wait
vague token
obviously the attacks are weighted differently in practice
sterile bluff
by ehp u don't actually mean actual hp
vague token
yeah
sterile bluff
ok i see i see
zenith tundra
2.34 hp multiplier + a 20% damage reduction to all backlines and u take 0.8x times damage on offense
sterile bluff
im just interested in the legitimate actual hp ships have
sterile bluff
so 2.34 is lv120
zenith tundra
yes
sterile bluff
i see
zenith tundra
does this look good
vague token
i would put the loadout in the right side table
so it is 100% clear
so Akagi (beacon avg)
or however
cause if you say "defense"
beaver rudder is "defense"
zenith tundra
ok good thinking
vague token
it's just for clarity sake
zenith tundra
vague token
zenith tundra
how do i calculate fdg dr lol
vague token
break her hp down into the separate tiers
so the first what, 20% hp has no dr
so you can ignore that part
the next 50 or w/e has 10
vague token
i would just find the EHP
then separate that into the 3 chunks
to save thinking power
zenith tundra
it creates more space then i don't have
vague token
ah, then uh
zenith tundra
it should be proportional
vague token
like, (.3 / 1) + (.4 / .9) + (.3 / .8)
zenith tundra
like 30% u get 0 dr 40% u get 10% dr and 30% u get 20% dr
zenith tundra
is it only 10% overall dr? seems like it
vague token
yeah cause the amount you get isnt applied evenly
zenith tundra
46.87% 37.33% 70,550.34 beaver rudder wtf....
vague token
30% having 0 and 30% having .2
is same as 60% having .1
the main thing is if you get healed while still under 30%
the dr is more effective
not that you could ever time juneau on being under 10% or so
xD
zenith tundra
it's not a problem of changing stuff since it's easy to add but it's sensible to do it right....
vague token
yeah
lol got +2 first fight after pushing to 0 for cay
so the 2 9s i got were countered xD
vague token
xD
zenith tundra
something is wrong there
vague token
hold on lemme look again
vague token
is aa dr that high? xD
zenith tundra
good thing i asked gph... more then what gun is better on a ship is too much i guess
welp seems like it's right
vague token
i think it is
cause then you remember that 1 air strike has multiple thousands of potential damage
so if you pretend there's 0 dr
it makes sense
zenith tundra
ok
vague token
oh i think i see one problem
you did additive dr for aa and pvp
1 -.2 - (aa formula) is additive
you need to do (1-.2) * (1 - (aa formula))
for multiplicative
you'll want () around 1-.2
order of operations will make the .2 * aa first
ok those look better now
i think 51k hp vs air sounds more accurate
not 250k
xD
zenith tundra
good thing u noticed
vague token
yeah, but since pvp is applied last just do everything else first then the pvp one
so it ends up being the same
zenith tundra
not final pvp one but ship specific one
vague token
the result is the same no matter where you put it
zenith tundra
like -20% backlines
vague token
oh
that one
i think that is an ammo adjustment so it depends (tm)
i would ignore that one
because like if you run nagato it turns to 1
you arent checking dps here
so it's easier to not worry about it i think
maybe
need 2nd opinion
zenith tundra
if it is ammo then should be multiplicative
vague token
i did double check your amagi one manually and i get the same result
although mine is higher cause i adjusted to oath 200 xD
but that's ignorable
zenith tundra
the stats i use are 200 oath
vague token
oh
you should put that on there
i usually just do (hp / 1.06 * 1.12) in the formula itself
so it's clear
but that's just preference
vague token
does wiki not do 100 affection?
zenith tundra
=(rounddown(roundup(C15/1.06,0)*1.12,0))
u need to round stats if not they end up weird
vague token
i highly doubt that'll make a difference
vague token
that's going to be 1 base hp difference
maybe 2
yeah if i take yours directly
it's literally .2 difference
in base hp
so it turns into none
zenith tundra
seems like it's better to just do a rounddown
vague token
probably, i prefer actually accurate and then round at the end
zenith tundra
but some don't match
zenith tundra
like fdg aa with my formula is 255 without rounding is 254
vague token
i mean, it might display one thing on ui
but under the hood it could be the float
i know league of legends does that
zenith tundra
and in-game is 255. but for amagi aa it works better without round up
vague token
is it just round to closest?
xD
either way you should just keep your way
im pretty sure the result is negligible
1 aa difference is going to be a mostly ignorable difference
same with 1 hp
zenith tundra
ehm the aa formula was wrong again
vague token
the formula itself?
zenith tundra
back to 142k
(1-.2)(150/etc)
with 1- it ends up as a dmg boost since increases with the lower aa
zenith tundra
before was (1-.2)(1-150/etc)
vague token
i see (1-.2) * (150/150+j4) / (1-.2)
zenith tundra
i changed it now
before with was working the opposite
and now i have 140k ehp
((1-0.2)*(1-150/(150+J5)))/(1-0.2))
((1-0.2)*(150/(150+J5)))/(1-0.2))
vague token
((1-0.2)*(1-150/(150+J5))) * (1-0.2))
zenith tundra
with 1st 1 aa works the opposite of dr
vague token
i think
zenith tundra
100 75 30 0 58.97% 38.37% 104,353.37
341 60 40 0 58.97% 41.03% 62,681.25
the 1st number being aa
this is with (1-150/
wait is right...
wtf
ok i'm stupid in some way
don't worry
vague token
na it just looks weird in the table
that's why i do each step separately
and then combine them
so like on my personal sheet i would do HP calculation
then hp with all drs
then hp with evasion
visualization friendly
zenith tundra
i removed ammo thing i don't think u can actually use that properly
vague token
yeah i think it isnt necessary
inner depot
Does this look like a decent setup for pvp? I'm thinking maybe double destroyer might be too squishy but I'm not too sure.
zenith tundra
if those are ur most leveled ships u keep those 2. it would be better to use cl in pvp
sour oasis
That'll definitely power through 12k fleets. You'll have a hard time against Enterprise, but that's expected
inner depot
I have other ships leveled. I could throw Dido and Belfast in, and switch hood out with hyuuga for Dido buff. That equals out less vanguard power and a bit less main as well
This is what it looks like with that setup
zenith tundra
power is a bad metric. it's really just based of stats and equipment rarity/enhancement. it doesn't really show how good a ship performs
sour oasis
Does Dido benefit without Elizabeth?
As is, with the right equipment, it could plow through sub-120 front lines
zenith tundra
hood is better then hyuuga. as for vg it's much better with cl over dd
inner depot
QE doesn't buff Dido explicitly, except for being a HMS ship, but Dido buffs QE explicitly
zenith tundra
switch dido to tank belfast mid and london top
inner depot
Ok
zenith tundra
this should make it so london dies last
also i would look to get and level yukikaze and juneau. they will perform much better
sour oasis
I'd think that wasn't possible considering she's the squishiest of the 3
sour oasis
Juneau & Belfast are a great defensive pair. But that back line needs a lot more power if they're shifting offense there.
inner depot
Should I throw Oxytorps on Dido or Belfast?
sour oasis
Maybe on Dido. That vanguard offense has to be precise.
sour oasis
Dido does, but better than the other two. London should be using an aux gun btw
zenith tundra
use it on dido i would guess so she heals the others when she dies
inner depot
Yeah London has a gold 127 on
zenith tundra
again i wouldn't use oxy. especially on those ships that don't really have amazing torpedoes
inner depot
Ok. Rn I was just using double repair boxes on the CLs for PvE purposes. This still fine? I don't really have all too many good aux options
inner depot
I have blue camo and steering, no rudders
I have one gold steering as well that's on lonkai rn
zenith tundra
for dido her best setup is rudder boiler/pearl, belfast with boiler bulge and london rudder boiler
sour oasis
Add a Beaver Badge and that'll help her survival
inner depot
I have that one too, was on my portland but I could steal that when i'm doing pvp I suppose
sour oasis
Alternative is to stick the Badge on a fox (one that's not lined up with a barrage ship)
inner depot
Boiler as in just Advanced Boiler? I have a couple purple ones but no golds
zenith tundra
there are no golds boiler
there are fake gold boilers that have same stats as purple ones from collabs
inner depot
Ah, what's so good about these? Speed that worth it?
sour oasis
Boilers increase speed; hopefully the AI will use it to avoid bombardment
inner depot
With my luck increased speed will just mean they just run into more torps lmao
sour oasis
Good news is that torpedo damage mostly happens at the start; you can quit if your vanguard gets melted
inner depot
Ah ok. Thanks for the help guys I appreciate it. Gonna try this setup for a bit see how it does
zenith tundra
what's supposed to be hood bis as aux?
tl suggest maximum fp but is that really her best?
ripe latch
shell + sg , any equip not worth 
ionic magnet
should be hfcr+sg or double sg
elder crane
I don't really see any reason to not prefer the standard stuff
Her FP is slightly low, but that really doesn't tip scales in the favour of shells much
ripe latch
low dmg , not have dmg to kill enemy vang , low luck to tank dmg
only barrage and hp
zenith tundra
is it normal that ehp against cv is so much higher then against bb? or is my formula completely wrong
elder crane
@zenith tundra I already have a basic table comparing loadouts on Nagato/Amagi in a doc, vs roughly "common" enemy stats
That's where I quote all of my numbers from when saying roughly what each aux setup does on them relative to each other
Yes, very normal
CV base damage is massive, if you haven't noticed
AA then cuts it down
A single SB2C has something like 1.2k+200 base damage on bombs/suicide
zenith tundra
what would be the best way to show dps difference in between setups? like just straight dps calc?
elder crane
Compare base damage of shells at ~500 a salvo
zenith tundra
been working on this for hours and want to include dps difference as well for setups to have a better picture
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bIMMUpiKm3SSPhMU9pMh9tyN8FyKWK9JvqPREdFBbSI/edit#gid=0
elder crane
Ehh, don't forget suicide damage ignores evarate
Can't dodge suicide except through perfect eva/immunity skills
For main vs main, a lot of the incoming damage from CVs will be suicide
zenith tundra
how do u even calculate the amount of suicide dmg out a total dmg to reduce evasion impact based on that
elder crane
You can't in general, basically, is my opinion on that
The two pretty much have to be listed separately
zenith tundra
i do agree that suicide is a lot of dmg it's just i have no clue how to include it in ehp vs cv
coral wren
In a Noshiro/Ibuki/Yukikaze comp, should I even give the Pearl's Tears to anyone?
I gave it to Noshiro 
zenith tundra
seems about the only choice especially if u have her tank
zenith tundra
namaryuu vs namagi fdg 16+2 other video attempts. 15-3 final score. not a 90% win rating but definitely not bad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfHkGChAsmw
frail orbit
Anyway am I the only one to notice that TBM wont hit all 3 of em smhw . . .
I meant to backline
zenith tundra
TBM?
elder crane
VT-18?
yep, it's horrible at hitting main fleet before vanguard is dead
and once vanguard is, flood is too slow to matter
so tl;dr it's terrible on everyone vs everything, basically, is my experience
I think you basically need two diff columns, one for incoming plane munitions, one for suicide
that's the only way that makes sense for me
when calculating damage output, there's no objectively "best" way to weight the two
doesn't affect aux comparisons at least since +Avi affects both munitions and suicide by basically the same %
and stuff like flight speed / plane HP basically has no objectively "best" way of putting it in numbers anyways
zenith tundra
create a suicide ehp column?
elder crane
the ratio of suicide to munition damage will depend on what the fleets are (basically, when does the vanguard die, how good is AA damage, etc.) so no way to summarize per ship
yep
frail orbit
Then, how about using normal Cuda and Firefly smhw
elder crane
if you want a fast DB, I highly rec bombercuda
lots of suicide
otherwise just stick with normal heccdabber
frail orbit
Timing wise it's derp anyway
Not even hitting 1s of gap
If I insisted on using Cent Ryusei that is
elder crane
oh, FC stuff
FC just runs whatever planes are needed to make timings work basically
I prefer fine adjustment with fighter selection
frail orbit
Crash dmg wise, with firefly normal cuda got like
1s of gap, and same raw crash dmg as 831 vt18 tho
elder crane
cuda and bombercuda are 480 crash, no?
elder crane
VT-18 flood is vs BB/BC only
frail orbit
Ye
Wait
Cuda firefly 480x3 + 210x2 = 1440+420 = 1860
Vt18 831 300x3 + 480x2 = 900+960 = 1860
elder crane
@zenith tundra
did some Namagi barrage counting on your vid and it looks ugly
frail orbit
Seems plausible, right?
zenith tundra
lol
elder crane
1 barrage up
1 barrage up
2 barrages up
3 barrages down, Loss, not a surprise
1 barrage up for enemy Amagi since it killed yours before yours could fire (that's why I prefer HPFCR amagi...)
2 barrages up
4 barrages up, two more barrages up after you murder his amagi
Even
Even, but once again your Amagi got murdered by enemy amagi barrage before yours could fire
1 barrage down
3 barrages down, loss, not a surprise again
1 barrage up
1 barrage down but you still lost, oof
1 barrage up + 1 more after you murdered his amagi
1 barrage down
No cases of your nagato murdering his before his Nagato fired since Nagato barrage travels too slow for that to happen
overall, I think you got slightly above average RNG
I'd be interested to see what happens when you are down ~2 namagi barrages, since that is slightly in favor of offense Namaryuu mirror in my experience
the match you lost despite being only down 1 Namagi barrage proc is a bit oof, but that does happen with BB targeting RNG
zenith tundra
if in 16 matches no 2 barrages down is not like i can do anything
zenith tundra
fdg just murders randomly with 457
elder crane
yep, that match FdG went to town with the 457
zenith tundra
also seems that hiryuu top and amagi bot is more consistent at the very least until yukikaze stalls till hiryuu final counter
i tested that too and i only lost once due to early amagi death and yukikaze stalling
elder crane
anyways, so far nothing interesting here compared to what we know about Namaryuu vs Namaryuu
3 barrage procs down, obviously you lose lol
-1 or higher, usually ez win, though -1 still has a chance
-2 is the interesting one, where in my experience, Namaryuu mirrors, slightly favors offense
can't do anything about it when game refuses to have that happen
frail orbit
Just reset 4head
elder crane
also
good ole
"NEVAR LUCKI" on barrages until you start running tests, then everything behaves as expected
frail orbit
Inb4 balding pvp
elder crane
this is why I think it's just memory bias
frail orbit
elder crane
in all those runs, ignoring procs after the opposing ship died, you had one more Namagi activation than him
aka RNG behaving basically exactly as expected
elder crane
Yeah, if you run no-HPFCR vs HPFCR amagi, not putting them opposite each other is imo a no-brainer
otherwise yours can get killed by opposing barrage before you even have a chance to proc yours
zenith tundra
the one loss was to early amagi death
elder crane
oh hey, is he using DrH Nagato vs your 381kai Nagato?
zenith tundra
yes
i need to check timings but namaryuu being so dependent on vg death i wouldn't switch to 406
elder crane
oof you were down just 1 Namagi proc on your loss too, -2 more after your Amagi died
zenith tundra
i have to say namagi ws just demolishes that team. like not even a contest
zenith tundra
i see like 5k crits on ws on offense it's nut the dmg she can do
elder crane
you and your darn Namagi RNG smh
+1 (one less proc after yours dies, making it 0 if you count that)
+2(+1 more)
+2?(+1 more)
+1(super close... FdG whacked you but being 1 barrage up saved you basically)
+2
+1?
-2?(might be -3, nice if you pulled that one off)
+2(+1 more)
+1
-1(-2 more, Hiryuu clutch win but not close at all)
-1(-2 more after FdG whacked your amagi), loss
-1
+1(+2 more)
overall, 8 more procs than your opponent only counting ones while opposite member was alive, pretty favorable RNG
bad barrage proc RNG my ass
I bet most of us when we see something like this, we wouldn't even remember it
salt though when it's turned against us
I accounted for his Nagato being snail here btw, I think
zenith tundra
looking around for namaryuu doesn't seem to make much difference in between 381 or 406 nagato as timings. all of them within like 1min are pretty much earlier then hiryuu anyway and 381 doesn't seem to be able to strike before 2nd airstrike anyway. i guess it's fine either way
i still won't change to 406 because overlaps too much with fdg
the one thing is that she still sometimes go before fdg with 381
elder crane
DrH on Nagato does mean you can occasionally be a proc chance down if enemy Nagato proc kills yours before yours can fire
Nagato barrage on heavy (aka Nagato) tbf isn't that powerful, and vanguard eats it if alive anyways, so whatever on that I suppose
zenith tundra
so that would be the 1 thing to consider
elder crane
ah, right, that's a thing too
zenith tundra
it shouldn't even be hpfcr fdg
zenith tundra
hpfcr 457 fdg goes before 406 nagato
zenith tundra
elder crane
I meant base reload
zenith tundra
166 fdg 155 nagato
when i tested with 406 nagato and 457 hpfcr fdg it looks like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=finlkqxrRWs
elder crane
Man, I always underestimate how fast 457 base load time is
zenith tundra
his fdg goes clearly after nagato
elder crane
it's only 1.23 s slower than DrH on base
zenith tundra
2nd cd nagato and fdg are still shooting at the same time
zenith tundra
it's only 15s with 50% extra reload?