pvp

[arctic imp]

We need Sandy retro 1st

[finite valve]

yeh the day when every fucking def fleet is just going to be amagi WS kai and hiryuu

[elder crane]

Namayuu still great in WSkai meta so basically you just trade foxes for WSkai meta-wise, mostly

[arctic imp]

I would say Warspit Retro, early 2020

[finite valve]

WS kai is only for off

[elder crane]

WSkai meta though is great for being super-offense-favoured with a wide variety possible

[finite valve]

on def WS going to get fucked over positioning

[elder crane]

as long as you have key ships

[arctic imp]

At least no Nogato

[elder crane]

you still need something to hold off WSkai

[arctic imp]

I would welcome WS Kai meta

[finite valve]

and you think a WS kai is better than a nagato?

[sharp wing]

Slap any 2 good ships w/ WSKai on offense and you are good

[finite valve]

if anything she is worse

[arctic imp]

Idc

Not a fan of Nagato

[finite valve]

that's your bias bro

[arctic imp]

Yes

[waxen crater]

I can already feel the grind

[arctic imp]

She reinforces the IJN master race mentality

[waxen crater]

The PR is gonna kill me

[arctic imp]

Which im not a fan

[finite valve]

as if JP master race don't already exist lel

with amagi + hiryuu

and YKK

[arctic imp]

But with Nogato it was cemented

[sharp wing]

PR is not that hard, as it may seem

[finite valve]

what do you mean cemented?

[elder crane]

it's the wait for the BPs that's annoying

[finite valve]

even in WS kai meta we still have a bunch of JP in it

[arctic imp]

Like, it's here for real to stay

[elder crane]

and the res drain running the projects better for BPs

[finite valve]

so trade a nagato for a WS is not really saying much about JP not master race

[waxen crater]

I’ll have to wait for the WS kai

[arctic imp]

Same

[elder crane]

Plus then Azuma happens

[sharp wing]

U prolly quit again before that lol

[arctic imp]

Azuma in PvP?

ROFL

[sharp wing]

Azuma is meta in cn/jp

[elder crane]

azuma forced PvP tierlist in CN to drop down 2 ranks

she's in every tier 0/1 fleet right now

[arctic imp]

People probably don't have her dev30

[waxen crater]

Would HMS come back into prominence with the WS kai? Or does it drift away again

[finite valve]

apparently her barrage / shot can hit both back line and front line 50 50

[elder crane]

at dev20 it already is shifting meta

[finite valve]

with her gun ofc

[arctic imp]

Oof

[sharp wing]

You bring 4 main fleet ships on the field, lol

[elder crane]

probably dev15 is enough but the testers all rushed her to dev20+

[arctic imp]

That wont be for ages anyways

[sharp wing]

basically

[arctic imp]

For EN

And even then it will be a small minority so I'm not bothered

[elder crane]

did you see my earlier pics of what the "best WSkai" is currently

[finite valve]

small minority for how long?

since she is perm

[waxen crater]

No lol

[finite valve]

everyone going to use her eventually

[elder crane]

"Lol at these monstrosities being recommended as the "best WSkai" teams on CN"
https://i0.hdslb.com/bfs/article/b121552e0a70df84d5ca247110df0dcd7832c617.png@1320w_2236h.webp
https://i0.hdslb.com/bfs/article/dceecadc8f81ff919e4983f475ece6e83859925b.png@1320w_2236h.webp

[arctic imp]

It's gonna be slow AF tho

It would take ages for Azuma to slip into PvP

[finite valve]

it still going to happen eventually

[waxen crater]

The images won’t load

[trim horizon]

slapping best ships nothing wrong there

[waxen crater]

[elder crane]

the guy who wrote that only added in those two teams begrudgingly so I trust it's somewhat a thing

[trim horizon]

amrite

[arctic imp]

Eventually...

[finite valve]

yeh tell that to the many testers who already rushed her to dev 20

[arctic imp]

I might then quit

PvP at least

[elder crane]

"I suppose namagi wskai, or running fdg over one of namagi. might be good too but the guy writing the article seems to only grudgingly admit the existence of the two above options to begin with "

"My wife, the royal family? ? ? (This configuration is too stupid, the plate does not appear)"

[waxen crater]

What is that monstrosity in the front

A fourth bb?

[sharp wing]

CB

[wicked rivet]

CBT

[waxen crater]

Oh god

[finite valve]

large curiser

CB for short

[waxen crater]

Also I don’t have yuki which sucks ass cuz

[sharp wing]

basically a vanguard BC

[waxen crater]

I learned she’s my favorite

...

[elder crane]

CB is just BC in disguise, smh

[sharp wing]

[finite valve]

well at least she is waifu mat

good enough for me

[elder crane]

just swapped the letters around, you ain't fooling no one!

[sharp wing]

[elder crane]

plus the original role of BC is what "CB"s were designed to fulfill

[arctic imp]

Anyways

Hopefully PR2 isnt for a while

[elder crane]

hunt and kill/screen against cruisers

[arctic imp]

[sharp wing]

Looking at EN pace, yes

[waxen crater]

PR2 will murder me

[arctic imp]

Same

[waxen crater]

I’m not even done with PR1

Heh

[finite valve]

at least 6 months + i would say

[sharp wing]

You better not look at KR rushball

[arctic imp]

I'm taking Pr1 slow

Only on 3rd ship

[elder crane]

heh, I wonder how the next major PvP elements are being added in, order-wise

[waxen crater]

Will there be any reruns soon?

[arctic imp]

For what?

[elder crane]

DC rerun should be soonish

[finite valve]

done PR since last week i think

[waxen crater]

Anything lol

[arctic imp]

Events? Yes

[elder crane]

FW rererun maaaybe

[waxen crater]

Amagi?

[sharp wing]

We have only 2 events + anniversary left, rest reruns

[finite valve]

next event is glorious

[arctic imp]

But I think Iris 1st

[elder crane]

CE likely not for a long while

[waxen crater]

Isn’t glorious pve

[arctic imp]

Yes

[sharp wing]

Glorious is trash

[elder crane]

well, by "long while" I mean a few months

[finite valve]

i think we going to have iris before any rerun

[waxen crater]

Nice

[finite valve]

unless they want to fuck us like cranes rerun

zzz

[sharp wing]

Cent event should be held before anniv too

[waxen crater]

So should I even push leveling hms

[elder crane]

You could try building a jank JB team if Iris comes

[waxen crater]

Or should I save my equipment and rss

[arctic imp]

You do you

[finite valve]

JB only worth is for boss or siren tho

[elder crane]

but idk if you can make it work, since that'll probs want ships you don't have

[arctic imp]

PvP isn't that great anyways

[finite valve]

could work on pvp for stupid snip comp

[waxen crater]

What’s a JB team

[elder crane]

JB vs boss is still kinda ehh

[arctic imp]

Jean Bart?

[waxen crater]

Oh

😂

[arctic imp]

Frenchy ship

[sharp wing]

"Pirate fleet"

[finite valve]

also remember to farm d2 ONLY for iris

[arctic imp]

Why?

[finite valve]

best DD gun

[arctic imp]

Something special?

Ah

[sharp wing]

baguettes

[elder crane]

never thought on how to build a JB team, I'd start by looking at how CN/JP attempted and try to update that to fit the new ships that've been added

[arctic imp]

I'm gonna dread that grind

[elder crane]

but it'll have amagi for sure optimally

[finite valve]

been saving oil for that grind

[elder crane]

unless you run foxes or something, maybe

[sharp wing]

I hope droprates are better

[finite valve]

going to bust all my oil for d2 farm

[waxen crater]

Foxes and JB might work

[elder crane]

nah the rates are as shite as always

which is

[waxen crater]

But I might just make HMS for now and then see how it goes 😅

[sharp wing]

Cause farming 60k at d3 this event gave me only 4 bofors bps

[waxen crater]

I’m just scared at the RSS I’m using up to 120 all of them and using my gear for most as well

[elder crane]

I at least got one barracuda built!

[finite valve]

also glorious sp2 got banana drop if any 1 want to farm more

lel

[arctic imp]

Banana?

[sharp wing]

ohboi no more bananas

barra

[arctic imp]

Ah

Meh

[sharp wing]

A Yellow Banana

[waxen crater]

I need more

[sharp wing]

[arctic imp]

Don't need those...

[waxen crater]

[sharp wing]

Flying Banana

[elder crane]

farming trash events without purple plates
no thank you
wait, what was Glorious event like again anyways did it have purple plates?

[finite valve]

nope

only sp3 might have it

[sharp wing]

It's same kind, as Spee event

[finite valve]

sp2 as sure as hell wont

[arctic imp]

3 Banana is enough

For me

[sharp wing]

i got more, and all from boxes

[elder crane]

I didn't farm Spee for Magtorps, I ain't farming Glorious for Barras

[arctic imp]

Same

I'll just stop at 60 runs or less

[sharp wing]

I farmed magtorps... to no avail

droprates are shit on all events

[arctic imp]

Waiting for rainbow magtorps...

[finite valve]

not helping that CB don't have siren

[elder crane]

6 barras on my end, almost enough for everyone I want them on that I actually use

[arctic imp]

[sharp wing]

8 baras here

[elder crane]

but a few spares would be nice

not like I need more Bofors, I've a ton of those

[sharp wing]

and 2 ryussei

Well, bofors always good, just not to swap gears on all CLs

[finite valve]

just go farm 7-2 lazy bone

or 11-4 since we have 120 now

[sharp wing]

120 isn't needed there

or in nerfed ch12 anyway

[finite valve]

eh you farm there for the exp to get to 120

[sharp wing]

farm ch12 for 120 exp

[finite valve]

well sure if you have like 20k oil

[wicked rivet]

Chapter 12 is 120 exp per battle? thats nice af holy shut

[finite valve]

around 3.7k for fs mvp

[elder crane]

lol Hiyou in 4 runs

[sharp wing]

well, it's basically same oil, as ch11

[finite valve]

front line is around 2.4 i think

[elder crane]

guess I move to 12-3 earlier than planned

ugh, I don't have my key PvE ships broken yet...

[finite valve]

just use pvp ship lel

[sharp wing]

I just run my full pvp fleet for exp...

[elder crane]

vanguard PvP ships kinda melt

[finite valve]

what you expect

[sharp wing]

idk, they do full clear even

[elder crane]

even 117 sheff is having issues auto-tanking 12-2 boss

[sharp wing]

yukie tanks like cheater

[elder crane]

I might have to actually... gasp manual the boss fights

[finite valve]

[sharp wing]

need to lvl up my ARs for later 2:1 farm...

they are not even 110

[elder crane]

the vanguard pressure on mob fleet is low at least

don't need much, if any, healing for them

[sharp wing]

i use chinawall for boss

[elder crane]

chinaball just 100 for me, idk if that works

[sharp wing]

chinawall my go to autoboss comp

[elder crane]

just plop in a 2-3 AA radar repair ship and main takes not much dmg either

and plop AA radar on other main fleet ships too

AA isn't much affected by level iirc

so you're good

[sharp wing]

use Vestal tbh

mlb yr current, than get new one for 0lb

[elder crane]

again afaik level doesn't affect much for AA, so 100 akashi should be just fine

your AA stat comes from equip mostly too so that's not an issue

[sharp wing]

ars aa is low anyway

[elder crane]

they have like <150 base AA and your bonuses can get to 300+ (though you only need like 200 or so)

yeah, we get nerfed ch12 so it's not too bad

I find myself not touching those so far with just ykkz at 110+ in the fleet
and ykkz is just there to get XP

[sharp wing]

open bawxes

[vague token]

craft boxes into gold when

[finite valve]

useless if all you get from them are cranes

they should really implement a fucking VG flag
farm whole day and only get 1 lvl

zzz

[vague token]

especially since vanguard flag skills are showing up

xD

[finite valve]

who has that skill?

[vague token]

well it isnt a 'flag" skill but kitakaze checks for lead

im pretty sure there's someone who checks rear most slot

clevelad also has a vanguard lead skill

oh right it was seattle who checks off tank

all of them are new

relatively

xD

two pr2 ships and 1 smol boat

[finite valve]

yeh seem could work

[vague token]

so maybe new ships will have "vanguard flag" type roles

although kitakaze is just checking for her torp barrage

clevelad's makes sense as a flag slot where she gains damage reduction

[opal forge]

yo

suggest like the best nagato backline

[trim horizon]

check pins tier list

Nagato/Amagi/Hiryuu anyway

[opal forge]

hiryuu retro?

[trim horizon]

we don't have her yet but her normal works anyway

[opal forge]

oh

what about nagato shouhou hyuga

[trim horizon]

healer in PvP

you don't have amagi ?

[opal forge]

no

i am in 8-4

nagato akagi kaga?

[trim horizon]

Nakaga then

you'll have some trouble against Namaryuu but it should suffice

[opal forge]

is there a separate tier list for pvp??

[trim horizon]

there is a tierlist in pins

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BglmSOaD1ec8zc6bKwiItf2OcQueoRNxF3UGzlQnHBU/edit#gid=0

@opal forge

[opal forge]

ty

[coral wren]

Ahem*, is this better than 406 purple on qe?

[vague token]

is that the 381?

[trim horizon]

ye

[vague token]

i think the 381 still has less theoretical dps cause smaller shells

it's still good though

[shy hazel]

isnt that thing shit

[ionic magnet]

that gun is good for barrage botes w/ good fp aka monarch

for qe not really

[vague token]

you'd want the triple 410 for pure shelling

[sharp wing]

that thing is AP tho

[vague token]

shh

xD

[sharp wing]

triple 381 is better, than 406 for shelling on low Fp ships, like Monitors
And good for ships with timed barrages to increase barrage strength, not losing much damage from shelling

[vague token]

when do we get twin 406

;)

[sharp wing]

Or for timing adjustments, like DoY

Did it exist?

Oh wait, colorado class actually had 406 as two-gun turrets

Also we have them in game, i forgot lol

[vague token]

twin 406 gold is ironblood

[sharp wing]

purple twin 406 w/ Ap ammo

[vague token]

just fyi

fdg gun

[sharp wing]

Yeah, those pr2 designs

[vague token]

yeah, apparently 12 were made irl

[sharp wing]

But we also have those US twin 406

[vague token]

according to wiki page

[elder crane]

yep, and that one is a pure upgrade over the purple 410s

same damage on like 0.5s faster loading and 45 FP

[vague token]

yeah

[elder crane]

Annnnnd that's a double! both ch12 rare drops, get!

my luck is on fire again

now time for choukai to never come

[vague token]

[waxen crater]

I have an idea

Akaga and Monarch

[wicked rivet]

but

[elder crane]

Akaga is likely to just get more and more dated

[wicked rivet]

why tho

[waxen crater]

Because I don’t have amagi or nagato

[elder crane]

sure, it sorta works but it never gets better, only worse

[waxen crater]

[elder crane]

and then you'll need to reinvest all over again

[waxen crater]

Shit

Nvm then

This is the comp me and a teammate came up with

[wicked rivet]

with no namagi

use hood and dork

[waxen crater]

Except I don’t have DoY and was gonna use hood or war instead

[wicked rivet]

or QE and hood

[elder crane]

KGV is fine

[shy hazel]

why did u even put qe there

[vague token]

i mean you can ask dax for advice on hms

[shy hazel]

when shes not flagship

[elder crane]

QE doesn't need flag

[waxen crater]

Wat

[wicked rivet]

oh yeah KGV is a thing now

use her

[waxen crater]

Yeah she doesn’t need flagship...

[shy hazel]

[waxen crater]

Also KGV doesn’t give buffs like QE

[elder crane]

KGV as flag is good, otherwise her barrage gets partially wasted

since her barrage hits 1:2:1 vs the opposite side

As flag, 2 hits on each flag side and 4 on opposite flag

[waxen crater]

I thought she wasn’t exactly good in pvp compared to other HMS BBS

[elder crane]

she's probably better than Warspite

I'd argue also better than Dork but that's a moot point anyways since you don't have Dork

[waxen crater]

True

But shouldnt I put monarch as flagship since she herself has barrage

[elder crane]

although, WS has advantage that you'd be preinvesting for WSkai, but that's kinda far away

[ionic magnet]

any hms comps w/o kgv is missing out i swear

[waxen crater]

I mean she’s good

[elder crane]

depends on how much investment you have to spare (using WS instead of KGV)

[waxen crater]

Yeh

I mean I think the comp is good

It has a very survivable vanguard

And the back is hms which is yknow 😂

[elder crane]

Fortune is the questionable one, you probably want to drop her for better stuff once you have something better

[waxen crater]

Like neptune?

I have a lot of hms vanguard I was just thinking since she’s survivable it would work

[elder crane]

That's what I'd argue, or even Edin/Leander for now

PvP mechanics and teams aren't very friendly to most DDs

they perf a lot worse survivability-wise vs the top teams than in most PvE, with the notable somewhat-exception of ykkz

[waxen crater]

Damn :/

Okay I guess Leander it is lol

[elder crane]

somewhat-exception on ykkz cause she's even more tanky PvE than she is in PvP

[waxen crater]

I see

I mean if you think about it this way

If hms gets some good vanguards with AA

It could become meta again

[vagrant veldt]

HMS AA

[elder crane]

ehh AA isn't really the issue
HMS VG AA is overall quite good, and main isn't bad like IJN

[vagrant veldt]

I look at the Sakura ships

and they have better AA

[waxen crater]

Hmm

[vagrant veldt]

and the new Ironblood ship/retro also have better AA

[waxen crater]

So what’s hms problem then?

[elder crane]

Being just overall very strong and not OP

[vagrant veldt]

no vanguard

there is also so many problems with Neptune

[elder crane]

ehhh Nep is a thing

not like IJN doesn't run only 1 IJN VG often

and Namayuu can use Nep as well for one of the roughly-equally-good flex slot options in stall-VG

[vagrant veldt]

I would prefer the peak of HMS cruiser to have more than 100% AA

[shy hazel]

theres just too many anti dd ships now

not like dds do real dmg now

only survivability

unless ur ayanami

which dies fast asf now

[waxen crater]

Yeh I think that they kinda messed with things too much

And made certain ships too op

And then have others have a shit load of counters

[elder crane]

in the mirror iirc at least some think the flex slot of Namayuu-stall has Louis>>>Aurora>>Nep>Louis

[finite valve]

you mean how WS kai just 1 hand behind her back fuck up pvp meta?

[shy hazel]

and they made ca too shitty when game started

[elder crane]

DDs are the victim of a early rework on evasion

[shy hazel]

now its ca's revenge

[elder crane]

CA's just suffer from poor initial designed balance

[shy hazel]

ayanami made dds too op in torp dmg

[vagrant veldt]

they really messed up Enterprise

and plane base damage

[shy hazel]

now the old ops are becoming stale or useless

dds except defensive are dropped

cvs are dying

[waxen crater]

Yeh

[elder crane]

HMS DDs are evasion-focused on their tankiness
but ever since they made Evasion have huge reduction in returns at higher amounts, the traded HP for Eva bit them in the ass

[shy hazel]

bbs still op

[waxen crater]

Power creep too strong

[shy hazel]

the winners of pvp is still

bb bc and cls

while cas gets buffed

[elder crane]

Planes suffer from poor design on how stats interact to form combat damage

[waxen crater]

If bbs are still op I don’t get how hms isn’t big meta

[shy hazel]

if u ask me they should make some kind of mechanics for cvs

if u get too clsoe u get mini bombed

[elder crane]

HMS BBs are just not OP outside of WSkai

[waxen crater]

Hmm

[elder crane]

and with powercreep you need OP stuff to be relevent

[shy hazel]

to make cvs useful vs bombs ships in pve and vs killing frontliners

in pvp

[vagrant veldt]

what kind of CV is always in range to get shelled...

[elder crane]

Airspace control in PvP when

[shy hazel]

12 ships pvp soon

[waxen crater]

I think I just fucked myself by not being here for limiteds

[shy hazel]

cvs cant be shoot unless u wipe front and bbs

back back line

then torps spread

i mean

subs

[waxen crater]

And now idk if I want to heavy invest in anything since it won’t be exactly good enough

And since reruns are a thing

[elder crane]

3 front 3 back 3 backback 3 subs?

[shy hazel]

ijn and hms is the way

ye lol

one slot locked to repair ship

on back back lane

[elder crane]

well investing in HMS is nice since it sets you up for the eventual WSkai meta that might happen

depends on if they release new OP shite before WSkai

[shy hazel]

this game has ijn bias

[waxen crater]

MIGHT

[shy hazel]

so ijn investing is still fine

[waxen crater]

[shy hazel]

meanwhile kms gets shit

[elder crane]

but he can't invest in the good IJNs cause they all events he missed

[shy hazel]

uss future is dunno

[waxen crater]

USS meta may become a thing

There’s a lot

And I mean a lot

Of ships they can mKe

Make*

[shy hazel]

uss has only been meta twice and thats when the game was new

ent meta and wasd meta

lets see when pr3 arrives

rainbow uss ships

[elder crane]

Well tbf that meta was most of the game for CN and a good chunk for EN

[coral wren]

uss already have sandy as their ur ship

[elder crane]

only on JP was US never really meta

[waxen crater]

If they add a QE type for USS

Well not QE

A nagato type 😂

And maybe some more synergy

[vagrant veldt]

see the stats on US ships

[waxen crater]

I think meta may shift

[shy hazel]

weve been waiting for that for a long time

[elder crane]

WaSDE was meta on CN since the rework on FW ships, which was super early on, all the way to amagi

[shy hazel]

but what did they gave jp cn

semi useless cvs

[waxen crater]

But since that won’t happen for awhileeeee

I might aswell make my HMS

And if meta changes I’ll just have to level more ships eheheheh

[shy hazel]

do u know what uss needs

a flagship that has buffs and a skill like hiryu

[elder crane]

Alterprise has been confirmed iirc for later this year for JP/CN

[shy hazel]

they did?

that thing flies jets tho

[waxen crater]

What’s alterprise

[shy hazel]

not planes

lol

[vagrant veldt]

F22s

[elder crane]

CEO has confirmed both Alter Ark and Enty iirc

[shy hazel]

meme

[waxen crater]

iirc? Wat

I’m confused

[shy hazel]

uss will have f22s soon

[elder crane]

iirc = if I remember correctly

[waxen crater]

Ah

[shy hazel]

i dont think he knows alterprise

if he is new

[coral wren]

alter ark
That isn't a pedo lesbian? I think those were just some sketches from artbook

[waxen crater]

Yea idk alterprise

[elder crane]

yeah, go watch the FW storyline (or wait for a rerun that's probs not too far away)

[shy hazel]

ik they confirmed dark ark royal

[elder crane]

FW= Fallen Wings event

[shy hazel]

in jp they name her dark than alter

lol

[waxen crater]

Oh so it’s basically another ship

Enterprises alter ego

[shy hazel]

another ship

its just fgo term

[elder crane]

alterprise cause she's alternate universe Enterprise

[waxen crater]

Oh cool

Wait

[elder crane]

(and FGO term)

[shy hazel]

id say rather than alternate

shes from the future

[waxen crater]

Hmmm

So you’re saying

[vague token]

well, the future past

[waxen crater]

We may get another OP ship soon

[vague token]

xD

[elder crane]

nah parallel universes are a thing in AL

[shy hazel]

have u played winter crown event

[coral wren]

How to milk collectors? Make a double of each and every ship and name it alter *ship's name" works every time

[waxen crater]

No I didn’t

[elder crane]

oh right she's in WC too

[vague token]

i dont think it's entirely parallel

[shy hazel]

[vague token]

it's more like previous events are being rerun

[waxen crater]

I played when Enty meta was around and just came back

[elder crane]

it's the sirens that connect them

[shy hazel]

in gbf one famous character

[vague token]

while the fight in the future continues

[shy hazel]

has 9 versions

[vague token]

they mention it directly

[shy hazel]

al is still ez

only 3 versions

[elder crane]

cause the sirens troll all the universes they can reach

[shy hazel]

lol

[waxen crater]

Yea

[elder crane]

and even make their own "bubble realities" to test specific scenarios

which is what most/all of the events are

[waxen crater]

Ok so basically

We’re getting another Enty soon

And they might make her op

[vague token]

i dont know if they can fully time travel

i feel like they're abusing the mirror seas

[elder crane]

well, soon (TM)

[waxen crater]

Uhhh

Does that mean tmrw 😂

[coral wren]

Soon akashi will have your wallet

[elder crane]

it's a joke reference, some game companies are notorious for taking forever on things

[waxen crater]

Oh 😂

[elder crane]

and whenever asked, say "soon"

[waxen crater]

Heh

[elder crane]

the joke is, that might as well be their trademarked catchphase

[waxen crater]

Now I’m not sure if I want to make hms at all

Especially if I’ll switch with new units/reruns

[elder crane]

Well, the meta will always shift so nothing is for sure long-term meta

[coral wren]

you do you

[sharp wing]

If u don't make HMS, you won't have chances in near future

[vague token]

the meta will always shift

but the gravitational pull of ijn

[elder crane]

like one CN guy lamented, "WaSDE in the past year went from top dog to bottom tier"

[waxen crater]

Yeaaa

[vague token]

is always there

[waxen crater]

I just don’t know how short term short term is yknow

[sharp wing]

half year safe

[waxen crater]

Holy shit

That would hold me back from a lot of progress 😂

[sharp wing]

Reruns of IJN won't be here anytime soon

[waxen crater]

Just holding on maxing things even just for pve

[elder crane]

generally the top tier teams only get pushed down 1 tier at a time

[waxen crater]

And the best team I can make rn is HMS, which is like T2 at best correct?

[sharp wing]

You won't be getting Amagi/Nagato till 2020

[elder crane]

but since EN release orders don't necessarily follow JP/CN, it's hard to say for sure we will develop the same way

[sharp wing]

So

[waxen crater]

Hmm

Maybe I will make my hms

[elder crane]

if it does develop same way, a future version of HMS with many of the same ships will be top-tier for a few months at least

[waxen crater]

Except not focus on things such as nep

[sharp wing]

HMS is only non event comp you can do

[elder crane]

well, the best non-event one

[sharp wing]

Well, ye

[elder crane]

bonus on him for having KGV too

[sharp wing]

The only non event tierlist comp

[elder crane]

well ykkz is a thing

[sharp wing]

Go FULL HMS

[elder crane]

but she's not irreplacable in HMS

probably less so than in the literally every other team that runs her

[shy hazel]

invesnting in hms means

u invest in 3 prs

monarch neptune louis

then wait for ws kai

[elder crane]

You don't run Louis in HMS, no?

[sharp wing]

Since when Louis is HMS

[elder crane]

though I suppose she's the best ykkz replacement

[waxen crater]

Yeah Louis isn’t HMS 😂

[shy hazel]

?

louis replaces belfast in any future comp

[waxen crater]

She’s french

[shy hazel]

so any pvper will need louis

[elder crane]

It's Nep/Jun/ykkz for HMS generally

[shy hazel]

[waxen crater]

Oh

[shy hazel]

any faction needs louis

[elder crane]

Nah you can sub Bel for Nep too

[sharp wing]

But HMS

[elder crane]

Namayuu can drop Louis for Nep

[waxen crater]

Wait if there’s so little HMS vanguard

What’s the point in QE

Wouldn’t something like KGV benefit more

[sharp wing]

QE mostly for Main fleet buffing

buffing other BBs

[elder crane]

for Namayuu-stall, afaik
Louis>>Aurora>Nep>Louis
is what at least some think the cycle is

[shy hazel]

meta will have less planes so belfast skill will be more useless

bb comes

[elder crane]

though for not much difference whoever you choose

[waxen crater]

Okay so I should run nep/Louis/juneau

[elder crane]

More like Bel is specifically Akaga-counter and isn't super great vs anything else

[waxen crater]

With like uhhh monarch/QE/whoever until War kai comes

And then put bel in for saint once I see Akaga

[elder crane]

Plus you sub Louis for Bel generally when Akaga isn't an issue for you team anymore

[sharp wing]

you can slot in KGV

till Monarch like dev 25

[shy hazel]

true pvpers dont change attack fleet

u fight too many opponents to bother changing

[waxen crater]

I suppose

[elder crane]

I'd say go for Bel since that team doesn't dunk foxes yet

[waxen crater]

My KGV isn’t that leveled yet

[elder crane]

and you probably don't want to invest in a third PR

[sharp wing]

She is much more short term, than Monarch development

[waxen crater]

Yeahhhh

[elder crane]

if you do, order is probably Nep>Monarch>Louis or Monarch>Nep>louis

[waxen crater]

I was probably gonna go monarch>nep

Just so I have my back sorted

And I can go Juneau/Leander/Bel for vangaurd

And then if meta doesn’t change

[elder crane]

That allows you to skip KGV then if that's too slow of an investment

[waxen crater]

I get nep done

Yah

She’s like halfway done

I just dont want to use core data on her

[elder crane]

Nep is the bigger immediate upgrade, but I see what you mean

[sharp wing]

Core data is not a problem

You get a lot of it

[elder crane]

especially if Leander is already invested for you

[waxen crater]

Yeh

I mean I have KGV on pve bossing team

[shy hazel]

u can be a "true" hms defender like daxam

[waxen crater]

And I was gonna make Monarch go to mob anyways

[shy hazel]

use qe whatever happens

with non kai WS

or hood

[sharp wing]

I mean, making monarch dev 25 to be more viable in pvp, than KGV, will take months

[elder crane]

And also reject the first-shelling-round kill strat on WSkai

[sharp wing]

Since you skipped general bps from events too

[waxen crater]

Should I just work on nep first then

Also I could run Hood with KGV and QE

That might work while I get nep done

[sharp wing]

that will best for now

[waxen crater]

Which should be flagship?

[shy hazel]

most ppl who prioritize monarch

has dev 25 monarch now

[elder crane]

The ordering on the best upgrades is to do Nep then Monarch
but Monarch is the safer first investment

[shy hazel]

but well if u din do event then wtv

[sharp wing]

That's cause general BPs

[shy hazel]

someone here has

[sharp wing]

And cause they did cube projects

[shy hazel]

dev 25 monarch and dev 25 neptune

i think it was phoenix

[sharp wing]

I'm not whaling for cubes

[waxen crater]

Okay small problem

[elder crane]

I was spending a sprinking of cubes but then 556 ffs made me stop spending even coin on research

[shy hazel]

mmmm

if u ask me opinion

[sharp wing]

i'm saving all cubes

[shy hazel]

most cube comms dont give as much bps

[sharp wing]

Anniv limited alone will yeet cubes

[waxen crater]

I have more monarch than nep

[shy hazel]

they give more gears for me

lol

unless its the gold cube comm

[sharp wing]

you only do cube if gold

[elder crane]

ehh at those piddling numbers it doesn't matter much, to be harsh

[waxen crater]

Ohok

[shy hazel]

i dont even have any bps in the inventory anymore

i just feed them to prs whenever i get one

[waxen crater]

How am I gonna get these damn bps anyways

[elder crane]

you need like, what was it, 200 to hit dev25?

[waxen crater]

Holy fuck

[sharp wing]

223 something

[elder crane]

343 to hit dev30

[waxen crater]

That’s a lot

[elder crane]

165 more for dev35 for another small boost

[waxen crater]

Okay how do I get more 😂 might aswell start making nep now

[sharp wing]

223 25

[waxen crater]

Fuuuyck

[shy hazel]

build all prs fast

like moi

then focus on getting gold

[elder crane]

the cube comms is the fastest way to get PR ship bps

[shy hazel]

to do gold research

and study how to get

[elder crane]

and the fewer-cube ones are better time rate and res efficiency, for the non-30 min projects

[sharp wing]

cube project speeds are fast, yeah...

[elder crane]

both 30 min projects are better than the rest

[waxen crater]

Okay so just go for cubes in research

[sharp wing]

|But, not giving single cube to projects xD

[waxen crater]

NOT CUBES

Bps lol

Sorry

[sharp wing]

research projects have cost to do

[elder crane]

the 3 cube one has actually better BP-to-cube rate than the 5 one, for the 30 min projects, but costs 8k instead of 5k gold

[waxen crater]

I hate being a noob

[sharp wing]

You give cubes for project and recieve ship bps

[elder crane]

erm, let me pass you a updated rough tierlist

[sharp wing]

But there also non cube projects

[waxen crater]

Found this on the inter webs. Idk if it’s accurate

[elder crane]

that's an old CN tierlist

or JP

[sharp wing]

that is meh

Since we are not yet at that point

And they are already ahead

[elder crane]

well that is the meta we're in, roughly

minus a few small differences

[waxen crater]

HMS is doing that bad then lol

[sharp wing]

Weell, it's pre WS kai

[elder crane]

oh, its one of the initial ones

[sharp wing]

But with dragons Kai

idk

[elder crane]

I mean the meta EN is in is roughly what that tierlist came out for

but it's one of the initial ones that was made before testing

[waxen crater]

Okay guys so I should grind nep

[elder crane]

I recognize it

[shy hazel]

its mostly accurate

[sharp wing]

It's still pretty weird

[shy hazel]

but it doesnt fully integrate into en

so en needs its own tierlist

[waxen crater]

Is she useful if something happens where I can change my pvp strategy? Or would I just dump her

[shy hazel]

nep is useless

until high dev levels

i cant even grind nep properly rn

at dev20

nepgun is still broken is it

[sharp wing]

in QE fleet nep will be improvement over anything, since he doesn't have Sheff nor Yukie

[waxen crater]

nepgun?

[shy hazel]

nep pr gun

[waxen crater]

Do I have to research it or something

Or does she automatically get it

[sharp wing]

You get it same way, as ship bps

[waxen crater]

Plz say she just gets it lol

[sharp wing]

projects

PR start without gear

[waxen crater]

Fuck

[sharp wing]

like collab ships

[shy hazel]

[sharp wing]

Well, they ARE collab

[shy hazel]

the future lies

in research

so focus on that

u can ignore w12 wtv

if u dont collect shit

[waxen crater]

Yknow what would be funny

I grind nep

And then something happens where I don’t need her

[shy hazel]

happens everytime

nothing new

[sharp wing]

PR won't be useless in anyway

[shy hazel]

when u oath foxes

amagi comes

then nagato comes

then foxes meta ends

[sharp wing]

Oathing for PVP only... lowlife

[shy hazel]

the last nail to the coffin is bunny kai

[sharp wing]

[shy hazel]

why would i oath for anything other than stats

[sharp wing]

[waxen crater]

Is nep good in pvp?

[sharp wing]

in qe fleet

[waxen crater]

Pve?

Cuz then I’ll get her first !!

[sharp wing]

expensive phoenix

[waxen crater]

Heh

[zenith tundra]

best zombie vg ship

[waxen crater]

I already have Minnie

[elder crane]

Okay, something like this was what a lot of CN peeps thought, for right around before WSkai release:
https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv1828705

except that ones text and also not the one I was trying to find

[sharp wing]

WasdRyuu, that's new

[elder crane]

the guy afaik is one of the guys who contributes to the tierlist series that you @waxen crater just posted one version of

[sharp wing]

tirp

[waxen crater]

I see...

So I’m going to be leveling nep solely for pvp, and it may backfire

dont tell me the odds

:hornetsmile:

Emotes don’t work 😭

[elder crane]

Yeah, which is why I say, Nep is the better first upgrade for you but Monarch the safer PR to invest in

[waxen crater]

Hmm

Maybe I’ll just go the safer route

[ionic magnet]

well you want both in the end

[waxen crater]

True

I do want both...

[ionic magnet]

and monarch is just underwhelming until dev30

[sharp wing]

So you won't have both proper developed for next few months, only 1 at best

[ionic magnet]

so it will take a long time

[zenith tundra]

if u don't want to use a ship is pointless either way. only because some people don't use her doesn't mean u can't use it yourself

[waxen crater]

That’s true

I want to level nep but I have no need for her pve wise

[zenith tundra]

u can use nep for whatever u want in pve

[waxen crater]

Oh

Well then

[ionic magnet]

pve is w/e anyways

[waxen crater]

I guess I will have a use for her

[ionic magnet]

just slot any ships kek

[shy hazel]

i hate grinding nep

heh

i stopped at like what

90

[sharp wing]

lol

[waxen crater]

Wish me luck :laffeycantwakeup:

[elder crane]

Every PR minus Izumo is great in PvE
Izumo is merely good

and even she has her uses

[zenith tundra]

did u not finish her @shy hazel

[sharp wing]

But Oni are best waifu

[waxen crater]

Next event is in two weeks I hear btw

[sharp wing]

one week

[shy hazel]

i finished all pr

[waxen crater]

You think it’s gonna be a new unit orrrr

[shy hazel]

i hate grinding her levels

lol

shes not as good as phx

at dev 20

hey self heal is lower

and she has 0 luck

so she gets hit alot

[sharp wing]

We getting Glorious event

[elder crane]

well Phoenix is pretty good so

[waxen crater]

Isn’t she trash

[ionic magnet]

it feels like PRs really need dev30 to be themselves

[shy hazel]

shes trash for me until dev30

and fate simulation

[waxen crater]

I don’t have Phoenix leveled only Minnie

So

Imma just level nep and have two expensive zombies

[shy hazel]

these vg prs needs luck

seriously

lol

[sharp wing]

Phoenix is one of core pve ships

[shy hazel]

maybe not rly for roon and louis

cos they can tank things

[elder crane]

Ehh dev25 gives all the defensive stats aside from luck already

[shy hazel]

nep not really

[waxen crater]

Hmmm

[elder crane]

Well Louis with boost up is not that much tankier than Nep in single-fight

[waxen crater]

I’ve gotten fine without Phoenix lol

[elder crane]

and Nep ofc is zombie

[waxen crater]

Yea

[shy hazel]

the thing youll want in louis

[waxen crater]

Well thanks for the help guys !!

[shy hazel]

is the initial drift skill anyways

[waxen crater]

Sorry I made it complicated by not having any limiteds

[shy hazel]

we need more active serious pvp ppl in pvp

be active here if u wanna git gud

[waxen crater]

I am serious lol

[shy hazel]

lets see next event

[sharp wing]

[waxen crater]

I just need help cuz I’m a noob 😤

[shy hazel]

technically youll still want the best units

from events

[waxen crater]

Yeah I’ll get them obviously

[shy hazel]

but well just build pr whatver

focus n research

[sharp wing]

Next event is trash ships anyway

[shy hazel]

start grinding monarch

[waxen crater]

Some people told me to grind nep first

I shall listen to your reasoning lmao

[sharp wing]

lol

[shy hazel]

u can use belfast jun for now

[sharp wing]

Better lvl yr kgv for now

[shy hazel]

while farming kgv exp u also farm monarch exp

if u ask me opinion backline is more important than frontline

and monarch dev 25 is more useful than neptune dev 25

[sharp wing]

The point is not what more important, the point about best short term improvement

[shy hazel]

[ionic magnet]

dev25 monarch is just another hood if not worse

[shy hazel]

nep doesnt give short term

improvement

[waxen crater]

For me it does

[sharp wing]

To his team

[coral wren]

won't your vg be slow af with luis instead of yuki?

[shy hazel]

do u ppl even have neptune rn to know

how hard it is to even grind her

[vague token]

saint louis is fast yo

[sharp wing]

same as any vg

[shy hazel]

its not even fun to lvl 110 her

[ionic magnet]

you use both sanrui with ykkz anyways

[coral wren]

Is it? mb then..

[sharp wing]

Sanrui has speed boost skill

[waxen crater]

Why is it hard to grind nep

[lament lichen]

its fun to lvl nep

[ionic magnet]

nep voice will keep you going

[coral wren]

Still don't really know, jesus nep should be with louis or yuki. Rn yuki feels quite underwhelming when there is no amagi and nagato to boost her

[lament lichen]

jesus nep wuki

yuki

[waxen crater]

Yah I’ll just go nep>monarch>Louis

[sharp wing]

how yukie can feel underwhelming ?

[waxen crater]

Pray for me boys

[coral wren]

Mine yuki dies to enemy yuki way more often

[sharp wing]

lol

[coral wren]

and not dodging shit

[ionic magnet]

you should ask bluerendar for yuki tips

his yuki is a god

[sharp wing]

He pets his Yukie every day

[coral wren]

he is running namaryuu so that doesn't count 😄

[sharp wing]

[waxen crater]

Okay I’m gonna grind some more

[ionic magnet]

[coral wren]

qe doesn't boost filthy ijn

[waxen crater]

Wish me luck

[shy hazel]

i dont think allergy got yukikaze?

he's new

[sharp wing]

no yukie no sheff

[waxen crater]

I didn’t get her heh

Yah

[ionic magnet]

oh

[shy hazel]

hes literally new

[waxen crater]

No yukie... no sheff...

[sharp wing]

He's Returning

[waxen crater]

I do have minnie tho cuz I played for a month at launch

[sharp wing]

Well, that was FAR from launch, lol

[waxen crater]

Oh

[sharp wing]

Launch is August

[waxen crater]

Okay well I started playing around there for a month

[shy hazel]

minne doesnt do shit in pvp

[waxen crater]

Then quit 😂

[shy hazel]

[lament lichen]

minne was like in nov or something

[waxen crater]

True but she’s my waifu

[ionic magnet]

just be patient for now i guess

[waxen crater]

Yeaaaa

[shy hazel]

just do the most logical thing

[waxen crater]

I’ll just make nep and then monarch, make my hms

And pray

[shy hazel]

go "borrow" a new account from somewhere

that has ijn shenanigans

[sharp wing]

[waxen crater]

I...

I don’t think buying an account will solve anything

Wait

It might

But idk where I would

[shy hazel]

it will solve 80% of your problems

[ionic magnet]

raise a warspite along the way

[shy hazel]

[ionic magnet]

better be prepared

[waxen crater]

I mean

I could buy an account

[shy hazel]

hey i didnt say buy

i said borrow

[waxen crater]

Right

[shy hazel]

we not allowed to talk about rmt here

[waxen crater]

Borrow

[zenith tundra]

u still spend money instead of playing ur game

[ionic magnet]

[shy hazel]

[waxen crater]

But then again I won’t enjoy it cuz I didn’t like

Progress myself

[sharp wing]

"borrow" a fully ringed Namaryuu w/ Yukie

[shy hazel]

you wont be satisfied anyways

because u wont have ships u need

[sharp wing]