pvp

[vague token]

not crimson axis

xD

[sharp wing]

The only theme in AL is WAIFU

[vague token]

eh i still think the stronger theme is comradery between factions

[sharp wing]

Well, look at FGO

[vague token]

cause the events all push it

even though the events are usually themed on one nation

it's always played out as everyone coming together

[sharp wing]

FGo is totally solo game, lol, aside from support heroes

even no chat

[zenith tundra]

can something be more solo then al?

[sharp wing]

i already said

[vague token]

basically 100% of gachas are just as solo as AL

in the core game

[sharp wing]

Well, AL even has "pvp"

half games dun even have that

[vague token]

i mean we all know our preferred game mode is a meme

xD

[zenith tundra]

pvp which is just ai vs ai

[sharp wing]

still it's ppl involved

[vague token]

still better than FEH pvp

lol power creep in that game

ive heard horror stories

[sharp wing]

Well, Ppl who came after Amagi event...

Also didn't built Naga...

horror pvp stories

And they even don't have washi, cause that's older event

[vague token]

xD

[sharp wing]

HMS adventures

[zenith tundra]

the only god tier pvp ship in al that is not event locked is hiryuu

[sharp wing]

well, outside ijn comp she's not really got tier

[zenith tundra]

with ws kai u need her

unless u like to auto lose

[sharp wing]

Oh pls

I heard ppl say wasd succ

[zenith tundra]

wasd is event

wtf

[vague token]

na hiryuu kai is god tier no nation needed

[sharp wing]

i mean about autolose

[vague token]

oh

[sharp wing]

well, her kai is pretty far off

from EN

[zenith tundra]

well anything around 50% win rate is terrible

without any event ships and against ws kai u lose pretty much

since that was what we were talking about

[sharp wing]

I mean ws kai itself has minievent

and wtf ws kai and en

[zenith tundra]

not like new people only fight new people

[sharp wing]

not like new ppl on En will fight WS Kai

anytime soon

[vague token]

xD

[zenith tundra]

who knows u still pretty much lose against namaryuu easily

[sharp wing]

that's what we were talking about horror stories

So some SaraKai and other comps enthusiasts here may say otherwise

[zenith tundra]

the sarakai lover around here was using hiryuu in amakaga meta

he just dumped her for no reason

[vague token]

it's ok if we get essex before hiryuu kai ill use her

[sharp wing]

We will get many things before that

[vague token]

xD

[sharp wing]

Esp since there global events, who knows, what will come up

[vague token]

look i just want unreduceable flood damage

with a .6 ratio or w/e

[sharp wing]

[vague token]

actually i dunno what the ratio is i just think it'll be higher than sara

xD

[zenith tundra]

we are kind of low on missing retro

[sharp wing]

On wiki Essex coeff is stated as WIP

[vague token]

maybe it's on cn/jp wiki

[sharp wing]

Well, try to navigate to relevant area if u pls xD

in there

[vagrant veldt]

Essex 0.3 Sara 0.2

[sharp wing]

eww

[vague token]

wait wut, why is it so bad

[zenith tundra]

15 retros not in en of the ships we have

[sharp wing]

[vague token]

i mean i guess it's a 50% increase

so not that bad xD

[sharp wing]

50% of 20% xD

[vague token]

i mean that'll push the ticks from like 140-150 to 210-225 or w/e, but unlike fire you cant extinguish them

so that isnt terrible

[sharp wing]

Sara has FIre + Flood tho

So overall damage might be lower

[vague token]

fire gets trolled by amagi and ykk extinguisher

only ticks like twice, or 3 times

cause of the bug

[sharp wing]

Depends on fire damage

those 3 ticks + 0.2 flood may be bigger, than 0.3 flood

[vague token]

flood ticks for 24 seconds or w/e

so no probably not

[sharp wing]

You will relaunch faster tho

So it won't even tick for full duration and refresh

[vague token]

i mean sara is double dive and a fighter

so id rather take off sooner with essex

xD

[zenith tundra]

essex isn't

[vague token]

also, note that essex uses tbf

aka cuda

[zenith tundra]

which mean her dot will just get refreshed

[sharp wing]

I mean double helldivers alone is shittone of damage

[vague token]

parallel torps make it easier to actually spread the damn dot

instead of aim torps

lol

unless tbf is aim torp for 0 reasons

[sharp wing]

Essex will refresh dot faster tho

Overall Sara dps should be miles more just from double bombers alone

[vague token]

if you run double helldivers you wont have enough time to tick

before getting your face caved in

if you do like vf pirate/helldiver/helldiver

that'll take forever

[zenith tundra]

how the hell does she dies so fast?

[sharp wing]

Imagine not doing helldivers

[storm blaze]

so, do i fight this guy now? or wait until i can do 10 matches?

[zenith tundra]

if u get bonuses from it yes imo

[vague token]

i mean if you put her against amagi, im pretty sure she gets like what, 4-5 shot chances before 2nd take off

[lament lichen]

just fight now

not like he is going to go up even more

[vague token]

xD

[lament lichen]

unless he snadbagged so hard

[zenith tundra]

if he pushed to 0 attempts might not play next reset

[lament lichen]

that he wants to get some +9s

[storm blaze]

well, i'm just commodore, so no idea how much would that boost me XD

[sharp wing]

[vague token]

i guess i could just run the numbers

brb math

[lament lichen]

it depends on your point difference

not rank

[zenith tundra]

u get +1 bonus pts for every 35 score difference

[sharp wing]

Well, if he's commodore, point diff there is BIG

Cause the guy sure is Aotn

on 3rd place

Also i have no idea, how that could happen

[vague token]

oh i forgot what the prank base damages were

xD

[storm blaze]

So now that i beat him, do i fight the next guy, or wait for the next reset? and see if he gets a higher rank ?

[zenith tundra]

if u want to sandbag always wait for people to use heir attempts at least till u have to use yours

[storm blaze]

well,with only 20 minutes i doubt anyone else will go higher at the moment

[zenith tundra]

i use to push 30min before reset so i don't end up with only sandbaggers in my list

[storm blaze]

this is, what I'm doing now, also the next round will be 10 hours, so do i wait 9 hours and an a half and then fight ?

[sharp wing]

Or if you need reroll fight vs Namaryuu 10 times

[zenith tundra]

that might depend on server tho

u need to check from time to time if opponents move in ur list

u can do it as often as u can/want

[storm blaze]

most of the time they just fall in rank

[zenith tundra]

people fall in rank because other people push

[sharp wing]

Also you cannot go above 10 tickets for matches. each reset time you get +5. So you need to use 5 in each reset

[zenith tundra]

not because they lose score

[sharp wing]

So if you have 9 tickets now, use 4 before reset at least

[storm blaze]

i know the max limit is 10, so i guess i will only have 5 since i used the ones i have now

[vague token]

ok i did the math

it's actually pretty close in total ratio

i dont know what the base weapon damage is on their skills

but you just multiply it out so w/e

i get 8 (extinguisher) + 13 (flood) for sara

and 20ish for essex

so it depends entirely on the base damage

cause if the tbf has higher weapon damage it could pull ahead since the ratios are close

also assuming that tbf is line torps

it immediately becomes better

since i can hit more targets

instead of sara aim torps lol

[storm blaze]

another thing how does the defense fleet affect me? I've seen people doing weak fleets, meme fleets, and "I'm an asshole and here's my fox fleet"

[sharp wing]

It doesn't affect you in any way

Just pick dark or light side

[vague token]

so yeah sara's is probably worse damage overall since lol aim torps

[trim horizon]

you want to put weak fleets at the start of a new season so people can advance easily and thus more probability to have bonus

[zenith tundra]

just don't use namaryuu

[trim horizon]

but yea generally it doesn't affect you

[vague token]

like i said ill swap when kai is out

[lament lichen]

or be lazy and never change it

[vague token]

xD

[steep fog]

just put namaryuu

[storm blaze]

meh, i just have this on the defense.

[steep fog]

to annoy people

[sharp wing]

Well, that's pretty mild

[storm blaze]

I don't have they ryu chick, don't know how i don't have her yet

[steep fog]

wtf

[zenith tundra]

need people to get points in order to sandbag

[sharp wing]

Ryuu only drops in CH3 so...

[vague token]

[sharp wing]

3-1 to 3-3

[steep fog]

just run 5 oil fleet

do a few runs

[storm blaze]

i know, somehow i have the other one, but not her XD

[sharp wing]

Well, she is easy to get

just do full clears

[storm blaze]

i will do that, probably today. since i have nothing to do anyway

[trim horizon]

[sharp wing]

I mean, you can do some aff farm there or etc

[vague token]

woo saint louis level 110

i did it

now to 120 her

xD

huh weird, bb kaga only did like 33% to amagi

rng power too strong

i could take temporary 1st right now lol

[storm blaze]

gg

[vague token]

no reason to do so i got my merits xD

[zenith tundra]

a sandbagger should always be ahead of current 1st unless is last reset of a season

[vague token]

im -3 matches and i donated points to stella earlier on xD

[steep fog]

I rushed to gensui

time to run meme vg to lvl up

[ionic magnet]

fml 31 pts ahead only again

[vague token]

=/

[coral wren]

I should use cudas right?

People in help said for pve i should use tenzan-ryuusei in most cases

[ionic magnet]

p sure ryuusei is only good for slow/non-moving bosses for pve

[hot creek]

I just stick to barracudas usually. I prefer the consistency.

[high flume]

Hi guys, where can I find the up-to-date equipment tier list? (Not the ship, just equipment for pvp)

[ionic magnet]

check pins

but pr equips are not fully updated iirc

[high flume]

@ionic magnet Is it this one? o.0? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BuOeLLjXKP-OGhXlN8V5yT7_19tgmvzHKwSU7y2O_KM/edit?usp=sharing

[ionic magnet]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BglmSOaD1ec8zc6bKwiItf2OcQueoRNxF3UGzlQnHBU/edit?usp=sharing

this one

it has recommended eqiups for pvp ships

[high flume]

@ionic magnet Ohh, thought that one is just for the ship and not the equipment.

TY

[vale juniper]

@high flume

[high flume]

@vale juniper I'm not running IJN comp sadly :(. But thanks !

[vale juniper]

@high flume Yeah no problem.. You're welcome

[ionic magnet]

that's some meme gears right there

👀

[vagrant veldt]

swap Yukikaze and Juneau around and it would be perfect in a different regard

[shy hazel]

its doesnt look meme

It's meme

[vagrant veldt]

purpose built to cause mental discomfort with surgical precision in every detail

[shy hazel]

@zenith tundra how u farm izumo

still 25% on 2m

moi pissed

normally id be 40% alrdy

i guess grinding back rly more pricey

[sharp wing]

Tbh Izumo is easiest farm

[steep fog]

just do w11 with 2 mlb + 1 0lb

and solo phoenix or ykkz

retreat when your vg is close to ded

I did monarch that way

super fast

[shy hazel]

im finished with 5

one last heh

[steep fog]

my roon still 50% of 1m

[buoyant parrot]

[coral wren]

Hm, do you think monarch pre 30 dev will be able to 1 shout medium armor target with qe and cent buff?

[sharp wing]

Doubt, even if low hp cv, not talking bout BCs, esp at 120. And even at dev 30. Tho if taking into account barrage + focused shelling and not barrage alone, who knows, but doubtful

[elder crane]

nah iirc it was said she only hits 6 shots out of her barrage, which isn't that much damage
she's not 1-shotting anything without lots of RNG, even with warspite

[sharp wing]

I seen even after ws kai barrage, she cannot take out Hiryuu with barrage without focused shelling

[ionic magnet]

we tested her barrage on amagi just recently right?

add around 7-8% dmg and thats it

[sharp wing]

Well, we don't even have 120 yet

[ionic magnet]

maybe 10% cos of some fp from maxing dev 30

[coral wren]

Uuh, you sure? I remember ws kai was one shooting with her barrage alone

[sharp wing]

what?

she cannot 1 shot anything

[ionic magnet]

ws kai is a different beast

👀

[sharp wing]

ws kai would need 2 of her barrages to kill

and probably with some shelling

[coral wren]

did they nerf her barrage or smth. I recall in early vids she was one shotting cvs with her barrage alone..

Ah, nvm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptZcx5PUM6w

[sharp wing]

I mean, her barrage is just 2 shells, imagine how powerful they should be, to sink lvl 120 ship

That would be just hilarious

accounting for more, than double hp in pvp

[red nexus]

WS kai

[shell heron]

I can't imagine there being any other comps used if something can one shot a backline ship

[zenith tundra]

@shy hazel kaga bb + yama hyuuga lb0 mobs and whoever boss in w9-3

pretty much went again 1 strong 2 lb0 for boss too

[elder crane]

I feel like that should handle more than ch9

10 at least should be possible

[zenith tundra]

used cassin downes retros as vg

1 for mob and 1 fpr boss

idk if those can handle solo w10

nicholas still a myth for me

[sharp wing]

Nicho being only non x-4 boss drop also

[shy hazel]

means i gotta refarm yama hyuuga again

oops

hyuuga cant be farmed

heh

[sharp wing]

Hyuu event

I got 2 of em tho

Yama/fusou cost 1 more oil/ than Hyuu/ise iirc

[elder crane]

I mean, just spend the extra, what, 2 oil for phoenix, and get the XP boost for ch10

nah same cost

Hyuuga just has the extra skill over the other 3

+15% FP to main

[sharp wing]

i know

[elder crane]

phoenix alone with that might handle 11 too, back up with another decently tanky ship and it should defs handle 11

[sharp wing]

phoenix not sure, but minne surely

phoenix would do w/ 3 mlb main

[vagrant veldt]

2 lb3 + any backline phoenix can survive 6 fights in 114

[sharp wing]

that's for main?

Well, i wanted to lvl and aff a bit my fusou/yama half kais anyway

But my izumo farm not happening anytime soon

[zenith tundra]

i needed to farm nicholas so didnt mind w9 xp

[sharp wing]

I would do that too, but i still need Jin, so i'm not sure, what i will do

either 10-4 or 9-3 9-4

SOS droprate increase is total lie to me

[vale juniper]

Why all of you that's a meme gears when it works perfectly..?? :)))

[sharp wing]

For monarch i jsut do 11-4

Well, that's totally meme gears there, lol

[vale juniper]

Just don't bullying someone's strategic

[zenith tundra]

i need nizuki as well but almost never end up doing 9-5 because the lack of oil

[sharp wing]

Just saying, that's far from optimal setup

[vale juniper]

Just against with my pvp fleet then record it

I'll see my fleet is unsinkable :)))

[sharp wing]

lol

there no unsinkable def fleets in existence

for now

Obviously on offense it works even with meme gears

[zenith tundra]

to win on def is so much harder then offense

what server are u on @vale juniper

[vagrant veldt]

sandy probably

[sharp wing]

Lmao, ty

[vale juniper]

@sharp wing Just don't ever bullying someone you fuckin bitch!!

[sharp wing]

some1 triggered

[vale juniper]

Fuckin' no life weeb!

[sharp wing]

I think, i'm one of most casual ppl here actually

[zenith tundra]

@vale juniper if u tell us server and ign someone might actually test against ur fleet

[vale juniper]

@zenith tundra Sandy.. Just try it

[vagrant veldt]

rank?

[sharp wing]

Also, it wasn't even me, who stated, that yr gear is meme, lol

[zenith tundra]

im on avrora so cant do

[vale juniper]

@sharp wing I don't care

[sharp wing]

Just accept, that you don't know, how to properly gear

Read the guide in pins

etc

[vale juniper]

I knew.. All Azur Lane's players who always farming everytime, anytime are Fuckin' No Life Weeb

Just Anti Social Weeb who wasted all time just for playing a game

[sharp wing]

lol

[zenith tundra]

some of the optimal setups for ships are actually cheaper then what u have

[sharp wing]

i mean, i'm actually at advantage here, if there fleets with those kind of gears, lol.
teaching them how to gear would be bad for my, lol

So keep that up

[zenith tundra]

[sharp wing]

More meme fleets

lol

[ionic magnet]

toxic

[elder crane]

just ignore him and move on, the usual

[sharp wing]

Just know, that we all are elitist nolyfe weebs

[modern tree]

I wish I had life

[elder crane]

Vat ees dis "life" yoo speek ov?

[sharp wing]

Is it yeetable?

Also, Should we get w8 HM w/ ch12?

That would be both, nice pr exp and cores

And Maya farm

[ionic magnet]

cant remember if we got w7 hm with ch11 tbh

[sharp wing]

I think we got it like that

but not sure tbh

[vagrant veldt]

Im predicting WS's um.. Excalibur to have a rerun since it looks like an royal event next

[sharp wing]

[ionic magnet]

ah the newly announced ssr CL

[sharp wing]

Swiftsure?

[ionic magnet]

yea

not on EN tho

[sharp wing]

She looks kawaii tsundere

[ionic magnet]

not sure if we'll get her aswell

[sharp wing]

Sheffie admirerer

[vagrant veldt]

Sirus l2d

[ionic magnet]

[vagrant veldt]

bit out of no where

[sharp wing]

Damn she's good

[trim horizon]

there wasn't a policy "if she's limited she won't get a skin outside of her event" thingy ?

[sharp wing]

Well...

i think some ships did get those outside event

Also on CN some of em are perma by now

[modern tree]

she has tits, there are no rules

[sharp wing]

So it might feel different for en

[trim horizon]

[sharp wing]

I mean, there like new year skins for event ships etc.

other seasonal skins

Don't think they always overlap w/ their event

[ionic magnet]

cygnet is getting a new skin like every 2 months lol

[sharp wing]

Well

Fav ship of devs i guess

But that also depends on Artist tbh

[ionic magnet]

with yuugure challenging her spot

[sharp wing]

Some artists havn't drown any skins since original

Some artist just disappear

Like the artist of hood/arizona/penny

Don't think we ever getting new skins for em

I hear, they have to change artists for some ships too

[coral wren]

The main difficulty is to imitate their style

If noone can do that, i guess they might jsut redo their original splash art

[sharp wing]

In those cases, they just redraw ship totally, like those ships, w/ original skins, that didn't make it in game

[viscid lynx]

[modern tree]

Hey, wanna learn about how multiple HMS things announcements might point at HMS small event, whihc might be Warspite, which is prety relevant for pvp?

[sharp wing]

[modern tree]

Obviously its hard to tell how relevant that is for EN since whe didnt get either announcement, but we always get them super late

[sharp wing]

I mean... If they rush her...

That would be funny

We yet to get Centaur tho

[modern tree]

tru

[sharp wing]

Which probably should be next hms event

So it's more like minievent

[modern tree]

dont think Centaur was event, I think she was just a random drop in a pool like Ambercombie and Sussex

[sharp wing]

She has minievent thingie

or nvm

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Events/Midsummer_Sagittarius

So not sure, if she went right to perma after rate up

Like Lena/Clevelad

But yeah it's just build, and minievent itself is for plane

Tho on cn/jp it didn't overlap w/ anything

[hot creek]

the thought of centaur randomly appearing spooks me

might start going a little easy on the cube research now

[modern tree]

she dropped on august for the weeb servers but august is ENs anniversary so wouldn't be surprised if they dropped her earlier, although probably next month

[sharp wing]

Well, En don't match weeb month schedules

[modern tree]

"midsummer" is pretty telling, but I guess they can just do w/e

[sharp wing]

So might drp her in late June early July

I don't see how midsummer is last 10 days of August anyway

like it was on cn/jp

Also the event plane is just shittier Seafang, lol

[vague token]

i mean most planes are just worse seafang jk

[sharp wing]

[vague token]

pirate just has cool utility

xD

[sharp wing]

I mean it's literally seafang copy w/ very slightly less stat

[vague token]

yarr

[sharp wing]

Tho it supposedly might have t0 bombs, like VF-17

[vague token]

ah

[sharp wing]

but nothing indicates that

Since it actually has no t3 counterpart

[vague token]

[midnight heron]

game trolling my ass (dis is UL project btw)

[hot creek]

mostly Nep/Monarch BPs I see no problem here

[midnight heron]

yea but repair crane

[vague token]

xD

[modern tree]

you think this is trolling? my second most bps is fucking Ibuki when I do nothing but focus researches on Nep and Monarch

and I think out of all prs I hate Ibuki the most

[hot creek]

that hurts

[modern tree]

all the random and bonus drops are Ibuki

for however long the pr was out

first I farm for foxes 4 months and now I cant even get Monarch to dev 25

my luck in this game is making me so miserable lol

[midnight heron]

well dats some bs rng

[modern tree]

I think the best part was

that after subs came out

[vague token]

=(

[modern tree]

I got both foxes in like 3 celears of 3-5

I do not think I was more upset in my entire life

[sharp wing]

I've spammed sos for 6, 8, 9, 10 and yet to get single boss ship there

[modern tree]

so far I got niizuki and both foxes lmao

[sharp wing]

[modern tree]

then again, I probably do sub maps way more often than other mortals

because I am obsessed with subs

[sharp wing]

I only like subs, because i get to use those ships for asw, i would never use otherwise

SOS i mean

Like some activity, besides dailies at least

[midnight heron]

well i do sos when it reaches 8 signals and im logged in at dat time

got jintsuu niizuki 😮

[vague token]

i was glad i got nich =D

[sharp wing]

I stack sos till 8

then pop few and wait again

Only do the boss drop maps aside 3

[vague token]

i mean nich is boss only xD

[sharp wing]

Nich is 9-3

tho

sos is x-4 droptable

[modern tree]

Nicholas is a nightmare to farm, I'd not wish that upon anyone

[sharp wing]

Well, idk why they even made her only non x-4 boss drop

For lulz prolly

On the other hand ch3 basically also has 2 boss drop ships

but same node

[modern tree]

Nick is a social experiment of how much suffering are human beings willing to go throiugh for sometyhing exclusive

[sharp wing]

But Nich having retro makes some dent in yr collection, if u don't...

I think all was intentional

[modern tree]

I got Niizuki when getting danger level down and then a dupe on sub maps

felt pretty weird

[sharp wing]

Well, ppl talking about all the increase drops for boss ships in SOS, yet i'm to see single one...

[vague token]

ah

[sharp wing]

Wish we had categories sorting for craft menu

[vagrant veldt]

is the one right now not good enough?

[vague token]

well, when you choose category it just sorts it on its own

instead of letting you choose like

gun

radar

aa gun

etc

[midnight heron]

yea wud be nice

[analog hare]

is Namaryuu still viable in JP/CN ?? even if warspite kai and fdg exist ?

[vagrant veldt]

+Azuma and eventually FdG
it's currently eating every other fleet alive including non Azuma

[analog hare]

well then

[sharp wing]

Well, counting how far EN is from azuma and FdG and their at least dev 20, you shall not worry about that for a long while

Also i hear ppl, who lack event KMS ships have hard time w/ FdG fllet tech req

[vagrant veldt]

Azuma usable in PVP at D5 if her gun is built

[sharp wing]

[vagrant veldt]

I expect a lot of players at D10+ by now

[sharp wing]

Well, if you convert all those Whole 5 decisive bps from each event

dev10 decisive only 56 bps total

"only"

[sharp wing]

cause her maxed gun

[finite valve]

i hear that her barrage with the gun can hit back line

so might be why she viable

[sharp wing]

half time she hits main

with those 310 shells

potentially can refresh burns from bb shots

[finite valve]

either way i am going to oathed the fat wife

[sharp wing]

FAT?!

Better get Rammed by NANODA-SAMA

[finite valve]

fat dog > loli tsun cat

[sharp wing]

yukie actually doge, if you about her

Awoo

[vague token]

it's not just half the time she hits main

she also doesnt have an angle limit

same as main fleet

so you dont waste any shots

cause CAs love to just dump shells into the middle of no where cause of those angle limits xD

[sharp wing]

Well, It's just 310 gun has no angle

[vague token]

yeah

which means you can be in any position

and shoot effectively

unlike standard guns

[sharp wing]

pretty much

Like DD

[vague token]

less wasted damage is always superior

[sharp wing]

stat wise the gun actually nothing better, than CA PR guns account long ass reload

[vague token]

yeah but reduced rng is superior to stats

[sharp wing]

yeah

Only mechanics makes it better

[vague token]

xD

[sharp wing]

Tho it also has HE+

[vague token]

we need Target Torps for vanguard

it shoots them in sequence

at a random target

[sharp wing]

lol, that's just sub ...

[vague token]

exactly

would be no mag

[sharp wing]

Tho subs have mag torp

too

Also it has best reload and best dps, lol

[vague token]

xD

mag targeted torps for destroyers sounds gross

i think just 1 mechanism is good

also having no mag means if vanguard targets backline

the enemy vanguard cant pull it away

otherwise might as well get the ultimate mag ryuusei style plane too xD

i dont think we want that

[sharp wing]

mag barra sounds way better tho

homing screen wipe

You Can Not Escape

[finite valve]

rainbow hell diver

$10 PER bp

[sharp wing]

[finite valve]

need 50 bp to make 1 plane

[sharp wing]

It has 10k lb bombs

[finite valve]

just give it a nuke and call it a day

1 hit KO

[sharp wing]

1 hit draw

imagine that on defense fleet

[finite valve]

if 1 hit draw = hiryuu master race

[sharp wing]

Inbefore radiation damage ignores all skills

[finite valve]

just call it true damage lel

radiation dmg sound more like DOT

[sharp wing]

dot that ignores invulnerability

[finite valve]

[sharp wing]

We just need t0 BTDs and make it not Safe to SCRAP

I love how Bisco black hole yeets torps, we need that skill in pvp

[finite valve]

just change bisko barrage to HE and be able to hit back line and i am good

[coral wren]

If only that black hole was bisco's skill

[vague token]

she could get like

forced awakening

when she goes under 30

she transforms and uses the blackhole

[zenith tundra]

kms need planes to be decent. i'm pretty sure even with maxed red skill on graf helldivers are better

also bismark dealing any damage is like lottery

with her barrage doing nothing and mg shoots landing on nothing u do like nothing

i couldn't beat an amakaga with lvl 100 graf and lvl 109 bismark

[coral wren]

i think it's up to cn/jp to force devs to make her decent

[zenith tundra]

she won't be changed

[modern tree]

helldivers are not 30% better than Junkers

[zenith tundra]

at best fix barrage to hit backlines

landing 100lb bombs in pvp is not easy

[modern tree]

yes, but their theoretical performance is a difference of 3%, therfore no matter how hard it is for Ju- to get the absolute max value out of their bombs, having 30% bonus damage on them straight up, which is multiplicative with Bisco buff is enough of the incentive to run Junkers

[zenith tundra]

i'll wait till i level up graf a bit more but i don't see those 100lb bombs doing anything

[vague token]

100lb bombs get more chances to hit pesky evaders

xD

[zenith tundra]

if u hit for no damage

tho

[vague token]

i mean 4 100 pounds is only a bit less than 2 500 pound right?

[zenith tundra]

with 2 junkers u have 8 100lb bombs to land

[modern tree]

again, theoretical damage of junkers vs helldiver payloads on light armour is: 875.2 vs 895.2, which with 30% efficency boost becomes like 1137.7 vs 895.2, which also gets a better boost from Bisco buff, takes off faster, etc

[sharp wing]

Actually by default, junkers raw dps vs light armor is bigger, than Helldiver. Even if you miss few of those 100 LB, those that hit with all the KMS buffs can dent vg

[zenith tundra]

u need to land too many bombs for that value to be effective

5x6=30 bombs total with 2 junkers

[modern tree]

I do not think that it's an actual debate on DBs for her, you should be asking if you want to run Messershmidt to take off faster and make use of the buff at the price of them having no surface presence

[zenith tundra]

with helldivers it's 3x6=18 instead

[sharp wing]

She has 2 fighters, so fast launch messers may be viable

[modern tree]

and the answer is hell no because the suicide damage for Me is super shit

[sharp wing]

but overall speed never worth it

[modern tree]

I do not think it would ever be worth it if you can have bombs and backline pressure

so her loudout is basically set to Reppu and 2x Junkers unless you are a hipster

[vague token]

lets face it, you're a hipster using graf/biscuit in pvp

xD

[modern tree]

if you are concerned about missing bombs then mind that them evadind your big bomb is also most of the helldiver damage gone

[zenith tundra]

i was just trying to see how it is

[modern tree]

so eh

play to win and not to not lose

[sharp wing]

tbh, more bombs is better

[zenith tundra]

eviding helldivers takes too much speed. not gonna happen with 3 ships

[modern tree]

is generally the idea

they have evasion

they dont have to move out of the way

[zenith tundra]

if u cannot land helldivers u cannot land junkers

[sharp wing]

bigger amount, more chances something gets not evaded

[zenith tundra]

that doesn't change

[modern tree]

no, because rolling 5 times instead of 3 gives you better chance to beat evasion at all

[sharp wing]

yeah

[modern tree]

again

[zenith tundra]

whatever

[sharp wing]

bigger volume, better odds

[modern tree]

Helldiver will probably be fine, but you should be playing to win

[zenith tundra]

why don't people use junkers to kill vg then?

[modern tree]

which is why you dont play Amagi with Foxes, despite her having much better odds on barrage and her passives being broken

I used Junkers and it worked back when I did, dunno what you mean

[sharp wing]

ppl use junkers on akagas tbh

[zenith tundra]

just for fast launch

not for damage

and only worth in mirror

[vague token]

i mean the launch time difference is tiny though

.31 seconds lol

base

[modern tree]

I used it for fast launch specifically because their performance on foxes was comparable to helldiver. Zepp also gets 30% damage boost on them. I am not sure what are we discussing

[zenith tundra]

enough to land bombs before opponent

[sharp wing]

Well, we discuss Zepp

It's totally different story

[zenith tundra]

totally different story when the discussion is helldivers vs junkers?

[sharp wing]

For Zepp yes

[zenith tundra]

it takes lvl 10 skill for junkers to be better then helldivers

why would u think it's better by default

[sharp wing]

Yes, that's what Zepp doing

We talk about Zepp.... ZZzzzz

[vague token]

they're comparable by default, i dont think anyone said they were strictly better than heccdiver

[sharp wing]

WTF

Also vs light armor bosses in pve junkers always preferable

[zenith tundra]

u shouldn't use dmg cv for bosses

[sharp wing]

[zenith tundra]

especially vs light armor

[sharp wing]

If you say so

lol

[vague token]

i mean you lose damage on light with all bombs

xD

just more on big ones

[zenith tundra]

enty in 11-1 full boosted with shouhou and doy debuff does vg damage

is that something u should be using instead of a bb that does twice the damage?

[sharp wing]

CV more reliable

BB misses half the shots too

Cvs work just fine

often bb only lands 1 of 3 salvos on boss

[zenith tundra]

look my akaga does almost always less damage then nagato in sp0 boos fight that is heavy armor

[sharp wing]

Cause Akaga torpedo focused?

Try double diver CVs?

[vague token]

ewwww jk i use sara

[zenith tundra]

with a fucking 20% buff

[sharp wing]

I mean i never sued akaga in pve

[zenith tundra]

i use nakaga when bosses are annoying and just want them dead. it works pretty good

[sharp wing]

Then you say CVs suck

Then you sue Akaga

[zenith tundra]

individually both akagi and kaga do less damage then nagato with 381 twin

[sharp wing]

lol

[zenith tundra]

literally worse shelling damage he gun

[sharp wing]

RNGer deals more damage then both tbh

[vague token]

i never even trained a RNGer

lol

[sharp wing]

WHAT

[vague token]

what

[sharp wing]

[zenith tundra]

same boat

[vague token]

she's level 66

[zenith tundra]

never even leveled her past retro

[vague token]

xD

[sharp wing]

pff

[zenith tundra]

i hate cvs

[sharp wing]

I noticed

[vague token]

owari da was my 10th ship so i stuck with her

yorktown was 6th

xD

[sharp wing]

10th what

[vague token]

ship

i ever got

[sharp wing]

obtained?

[vague token]

yeah

sort by time

[sharp wing]

Enty was my 1st build on server

[vague token]

xD

[sharp wing]

[zenith tundra]

poor u

[sharp wing]

Right after tutorial something

Yorktown was real workhorse in early server days, esp pvp

[shell heron]

Oh, I got distracted and didn't check if I won or lost that match

[sharp wing]

[shell heron]

was still on auto D3 farming mode

[vague token]

lol

[zenith tundra]

this is what i mean

and that's on heavy armor

imagine with like 30% less dmg on light for cv

and that's no aux on nagato too

if u expect cv to deal more dmg than something like doy or a good barrage bb without a 20% buff ur delusional

[sharp wing]

barrage

Foxes in PVE

[zenith tundra]

they get 20% more damage then other cv due to nagato skill

with a ridiculous aviation

[sharp wing]

double diver cv w/ good eff on bombers will do almost double of their damage

simple as that

[zenith tundra]

i'll try sara tomorrow and post the dmg chart

and an actual good bb not nagato

[vague token]

well sara is weird

[sharp wing]

nagato barrage actually

[vague token]

ill point out

her guns arent reduced by aa

[sharp wing]

more than good bb, lol

[vague token]

and the fire/flood arent reduced by aa

and she buffs vanguard

so she's kinda weird

as far as dps carriers go

[zenith tundra]

if she procs that is

and that is 1 boss not a screen of enemies

i can try doy zeppy sara and see what dual bombers can do but zeppy dmg is meh due to efficiencies

[vague token]

yeah i dunno about zeppy she's more of clearbot

[sharp wing]

Sara + Rnger or lexi

[zenith tundra]

i don't have lexi or ranger leveled

as i said i hate cv

no need to have them

[vague token]

id just do like

sara/doy/hood

personally

[zenith tundra]

fuck hood

[vague token]

or if i need sustain toss unicorn in i guess

owo

[zenith tundra]

she melts as flagship

[sharp wing]

barrage Cvs also not bad, like hornet

[vague token]

[sharp wing]

Kizu cv?

[zenith tundra]

I HATE CV

[sharp wing]

was it around t1 on cn

wow, you have so many 110 cvs lol

[zenith tundra]

akaga is t0 in pve BTFW

[vague token]

that's a lot of 110 cv for hate cv

xD

[sharp wing]

indeed

[vague token]

more than me i think

;)

[zenith tundra]

like 3 of them?

[vague token]

but im casual 22k attack guy

[sharp wing]

I only got 4 pvp ones and Uni

[zenith tundra]

akaga and hiryuu are pvp

[sharp wing]

well, i'm 18k

[vague token]

xD

[sharp wing]

after 9 months xD

Cause you know, CONTENT

a lot of it

pve to pvp ratio almost 4:1

[vague token]

yeah i have 3 cvs at 110

xD

[sharp wing]

Wait, i hit 19k somehow, prolly PR farm get's into account there xD

[vague token]

sara/unicorn/hiryuu lol

although i dont have akagi

so i have 0 incentive to bother with kaga

[sharp wing]

I have Akaga, but never use em, lol

[vague token]

id use her cause her secretary mission has lore but rip no drop

[sharp wing]

I prefer Cranes in PVE tbh

[vague token]

i dont think id use foxes in pvp though since i hate front loaded damage and have a well known CA bias

[sharp wing]

Skk fast setup for buffing

[vague token]

xD

[zenith tundra]

why would i bother with cranes when cv dmg is trash

[sharp wing]

Some ppl just like CV s, ok?

[zenith tundra]

akaga wasn't even usable in w11 with max level and max oath

[sharp wing]

I already commented about akaga

[zenith tundra]

and again i say akaga is t0

u don't get better then then t0

[sharp wing]

Ok

[zenith tundra]

are u admitting u just hate akaga?

[sharp wing]

I don't hate them

just not personal preference

[zenith tundra]

so they just suck because they are t0?

[true trellis]

are they even t0 anymore

i've not had difficulty against an akaga for months now

[sharp wing]

Do you even need tierlist to play PVE game?

[modern tree]

Probably still good because plane hells and air superiority tbh

unless you mean pvp

[zenith tundra]

u said hornet and stuff t1

[modern tree]

then they are fine

[sharp wing]

I said Kizu was like t1 on CN

Cause i never used her

So have no diea, besides tierlist

Cannot judge besides that

[zenith tundra]

well if sp0 isn't a bullet hell then what? only ex?

[sharp wing]

It actually would be fun, if Bisco black hole could disrupt vg formation, Cause after it explodes, 1-2 of ships can be thrown out of formation rather far. Imagine if they would come back together at random formation order, lol

Strange we actually don't have such skills, would be fun for pvp

Or if ship gets slowed, it would also swap position in vg

[vague token]

isnt black hole the first hard cc in the game?

i dont think there's been hard cc anywhere else

[sharp wing]

Well, can't recall really

[vague token]

i mean for players there's only slows

i dont remember any other cc effects from pve bosses

[sharp wing]

Also i remember on trio bosses i could fck up their order by Dork barrage too

[vague token]

usually they just do a billion damage

[sharp wing]

Man, namaryuu mirros feels so unreliable. Ending up w/ Ryuu vs Ryuu esp

[vague token]

i dont see many ryuusei hiryuus yet

[sharp wing]

It's just RNG of u not getting single naga barrage

tbh

[zenith tundra]

i wouldn't use ryuusei on offense

[sharp wing]

WasdA feels safer for me, lol

[sharp wing]

Merit shop 3 gold boxes. I think it's 1st time for me

[finite valve]

http://i.4cdn.org/vg/1560031006611.jpg
CN do not failed to impress

bismarck t0 on w13

oh boi

[sharp wing]

Bisco new meta

[coral wren]

nobody said it's ch13 specific tho

[modern tree]

cn only makes tier lists for latest content with very rare exceptions cuz before that anything goes

[finite valve]

implying that ALL CN tier list are not base on highest world

[sharp wing]

legit

[modern tree]

and bisco being up there is because they grossly overvalue FDG and bisco is the best buff for her

[finite valve]

big 7 is above mustu

that alone tell me they are high af

[sharp wing]

lol

wtf

[coral wren]

they are in the same tier wdym

[sharp wing]

I mean, compare regular Big7 to sakura

They are not same by far

[modern tree]

boats in tiers are not organised by power because that would mean Wash is better than Amagi and thats just dumb

[finite valve]

implying that anyone going to use big 7 over mustu for barrage

[zenith tundra]

how is this possible

[coral wren]

no fucking way

what

[modern tree]

and Mutsu is the same shit boat big7 are, 40% gun based barrage on purple BB cost

[coral wren]

who dealt most dmg?

roon?

[sharp wing]

well, mutsu has same sakura big 7 as naga

[zenith tundra]

idk still testing

[finite valve]

just the fact that they are of the same tier due to maybe better AA over mustu is laughable

[coral wren]

that's some quality content

[finite valve]

in what world would you want to use shit barrage boat over a better one even if the % is higher?

[sharp wing]

lol

regular big seven is pretty useless at like what? ch9+

[modern tree]

big 7 barrage is trash

[zenith tundra]

triple nagato barrage

[finite valve]

pretty sure big 7 barrage is useless if fighting anything that is of = or > lvl than them

[modern tree]

but nagato and mutsu barrages arent any better tbh

[coral wren]

I used rodney 1:1 at ch9 to fram monarch and nicholas

[finite valve]

using specific ship for specific purpose != they are good

[sharp wing]

sakura big7 far better to regular tbh

[modern tree]

okay but you wont polish a turd into a diamond

[sharp wing]

[zenith tundra]

as expected 1-3 so far

[finite valve]

so does bisko barrage even hit back line?

[modern tree]

bad boat with better barrage is still bad, being better than other ships in tier does not mean its higher tier or that they should be lower tier

[zenith tundra]

i should pay attention looking at vg

so idk if it hits

[sharp wing]

Then tiers are pointless, just make 2 tiers: OP and Rest

[finite valve]

should pay attention to those lel

[sharp wing]

[vague token]

kek

[finite valve]

tbh i am fine with using whatever but the moment you want to talk about how affective they are in general farming then we have a problem

[zenith tundra]

1-4 only hiryuu left last attempt but graf died early

well at least she did something

1-5

[finite valve]

pretty sure those dmg are from her aux gun

[coral wren]

tier lists are jokes anyways since they are not falsible

[zenith tundra]

she must have landed triple 381 shoots on vg since i won that

[finite valve]

to the ppl who know what tf they are doing sure

but to newbie not so much

[sharp wing]

Well, tierlists are to give ppl general idea tbh, not to follow, like bible

[modern tree]

There is not going to be a difference in performance when using Mutsu or any of the big 7, you'd always use them in the same context and always with the same result. If you can find a map that you can farm with Mutsu where Rodney wouldnt work instead, then I'd be really impressed.

[sharp wing]

That's not the point

I can just use Oklakai, why she is not t2 then

[modern tree]

what is the point of arguinf Mutsu over big7 then

[finite valve]

@zenith tundra so did you check if her barrage hit backline or not?

still bugged?

[zenith tundra]

i saw it hitting but gonna test a bit more

[sharp wing]

the point is sakura big7 superior to regular

I guess there just needed double more tiers

Not like anyone care much below t1

[modern tree]

or you can just read the tier list properly

[zenith tundra]

seems like it actually hits all backlines tbh

[finite valve]

all?

[zenith tundra]

3/3 so far full hitting backlines

[finite valve]

nice

[zenith tundra]

2 on flagship and 1 on each side for both wavbes

[finite valve]

maybe kms is not so dead after all

[modern tree]

did they change the shape of it? it sounds just like kgv barrage

[finite valve]

kgv barrage got an added V shape while bis got a few bullet mix in like wash barrage

[vague token]

maybe it gets wider/farther as it levels xD

so when we first tried it

it just splashes

or maybe it's stupid and the range is boosted by her cl skill lol

[modern tree]

na, they changed it, we had videos of lvl 10 barrage splashing on water randomly as soon as it was possible to have the skill that high

[zenith tundra]

this is level 8 btw

https://vimeo.com/341132667\

[modern tree]

it would just land nowhere more than half the time

[vague token]

oh ok

[modern tree]

it looks nothing like her old shape

[zenith tundra]

2nd shoot overshoot amagi

[vague token]

maybe it was one of the no notes patches

cause ive gotten like 3 or 4

small patches

[zenith tundra]

but otherwise it hits pretty nicely

[modern tree]

just make it like kgv, nice fix

[vague token]

xD

[zenith tundra]

the dmg is pathetic even if only lvl 8

[vague token]

it's kinda weird it isnt AP

so it would at least perform the same role that it does against hood

in the lore

[finite valve]

more like they just lazy and copy paste their barrage tbh

[vague token]

lol

[finite valve]

both of their barrage are the same for the main shots

[zenith tundra]

300-400 dmg per projectile on medium armor. hope level 10 improves the damage a bit

[vague token]

sounds like dork's

[zenith tundra]

normal ammo

[vague token]

[zenith tundra]

at least it works

it's an improvement

[vague token]

yeah

[ionic magnet]

does it always land? cos i remember people saying sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt

[vague token]

well before it definitely didnt

splashed more water than a magikarp

[zenith tundra]

i watched at least 7-8 of them and all landed properly

[ionic magnet]

interesting

[finite valve]

now just need more roon tier VG and kms pvp will be a thing

[zenith tundra]

i would wait for 120 before making a conclusion. roon still needs quite a bit more durability to be useful

plus i need roon gun

[vague token]

maybe roon/leip/juneau will be ok

ykk is kinda handled by graf

[zenith tundra]

well my graf is 100 so she dies too fast

[vague token]

oh xD

[finite valve]

unless they can survive ws snip before the VG die

i am ain't going to be hopeful kms going to be a thing

even with FdG

[zenith tundra]

i mean i won once and got to hiryuu past proc twice with underleveled stuff

[finite valve]

you gotta look toward the future bro

anything that can't survive ws ain't going to have a place in pvp

[zenith tundra]

idk about nagato just wiping ur team but without nagato proccing u might stand a chance

[ionic magnet]

hmm tested lv 10 bisko barrage just now also

they definitely changed it yea

[zenith tundra]

how's the damage?

[ionic magnet]

the side projectiles are hitting 100% of the time now

well from 5 fights

ah no my bisko is still lv 79 lol

[zenith tundra]

ok lol

[ionic magnet]

stopped grinding since shes meh anyways

[zenith tundra]

is it any different from lvl 8?

[ionic magnet]

just the same

pattern

[zenith tundra]

not that it works i wonder if 381 twin or 410 is better on bismark

[vague token]

i mean, she has a crit skill so probably 410 xD

especially post shell

yostar where's our shells T_T

[zenith tundra]

if we ever get them

[vague token]

gib

xD

[hot creek]

wow they really did fix bismarcks barrage. too bad it still deals little damage.

[zenith tundra]

iirc it was from data mine that it was said the dmg was low

[hot creek]

tested lvl 91 biscko sl10 barrage against this lol

[zenith tundra]

lvl 109 bismark sl8 barrage does ~400 dmg against amakaga per shell

[cerulean estuary]

we still dont have data on KMS fleet , guess well wait for someone who has dev 30 roon i guess

or is dev 25 good enough?

[finite valve]

VG atm or in the future are just meant to tank shit up

[zenith tundra]

i have dev 25 roon but only lvl 105 and she dies kind of fast tbh

[finite valve]

so with graf she just become a better tank