pvp

[finite valve]

well you can go and email devs about that then

[zenith tundra]

can there be any difference in between fp before a battle and the one in battle?

[finite valve]

since i doubt #bug-reports going to accept that

[ionic magnet]

[versed atlas]

on the other han

hand*

[elder crane]

FP outside of battle doesn't count skill buffs/debuff/etc
if that's what you mean? I don't think it is....

[versed atlas]

if this is true then that's a massive fuck up by the devs

and it's their job to actively fix this stuff

[finite valve]

even if that was the case most mod just going to say email devs

since this is out of their hand

[elder crane]

The Belfast bug was also shown in a similar way iirc, and that was eventually patched

[zenith tundra]

i mean if the fp in battle is just copied from the formation one or recalculated

[finite valve]

didn't know belfap got a bug

but then what about amagi barrage then?

it been "fixed" 3 times

still broken till this day

[elder crane]

*fixed*

Still not quite sure what you mean by "formation" FP vs "in battle" one
in battle, I assume is what formula, etc uses?

[zenith tundra]

maybe before people will stop playing al they'll fix that barrage but only maybe

[elder crane]

Belfast smoke used to have bug where lv 10 it acted like lv 1 for eva rate and dred

[finite valve]

imo the fact that they did not fix pvp exclusive bug seem to indicate that they don't care about pvp

[elder crane]

has since been patched iirc

[finite valve]

so telling them to fixed pvp feature seem pointless

[elder crane]

Looks like the one in pause menu isn't recalculated then, since it's the same?

[ionic magnet]

they should just let it take effect in pvp

[elder crane]

well, it technically evens the playing field somewhat
and means PvP gets harder the more you progress

I think the game currently doesn't know what enemy TP is

hence why their fleet gets your TP buff

[finite valve]

well if CN get a big fuss about this enough then we might see some change

dk about JP tho

since JP don't care about pvp

[shy hazel]

combat simulation 2 is still so far

i have too much oil

[zenith tundra]

i'm bored of how easy 1m xp is

[finite valve]

also CN JP also got the bugged amagi right?

which tell me that hoping they fix this shit is non existence

[ionic magnet]

heh im still on pace then. 30% a day

[shy hazel]

i dont think 2m will be hard too

[zenith tundra]

that pace doesn't work for 2m

[elder crane]

the XP has never really been that much of an issue

[shy hazel]

im only grinding cos i never run out of oil

[elder crane]

people overblow it

[vague token]

once i get 10k bel points ill swap back to sp4 probably

[shy hazel]

[zenith tundra]

i just thought i would need to farm more then 1 day for it

[elder crane]

cause they hear "PR is a grind"
and they don't realize it's a grind for ship bps

[finite valve]

well if you farm non german ship then maybe

the true pain was always about german

[shy hazel]

ill grind roon after

for more

challenge

[elder crane]

Even the germans, are not that bad if you don't rush

[shy hazel]

[zenith tundra]

how is that any different then any other?

[elder crane]

and even if not rush XP, still not enough BPs by time you're done

[finite valve]

not rushing 1 day 1 research done

[shy hazel]

at minimum mama monarch should be mine in two weeks

[finite valve]

what are you a pleb?

[elder crane]

the German CL/CAs you need to use mostly suck

[shy hazel]

maximum is a week i guess

[zenith tundra]

i just want to start collection %

lb0 nagara and abukuma suck too

[cerulean estuary]

im only @ 80% collection

[ionic magnet]

but when will they release monarch qipao

[shy hazel]

no ship sucks in 7~2

[elder crane]

yes but Germans don't have as good carries in the XP req as the rest do

it's not really that big of a deal, as you have probs realized

[finite valve]

with how they change the xp req for PR 2 to be just front or back i doubt they going to move back to PR 1 even with new ship

but then what i want to know is what going to happen if they have a DR sub PR

[elder crane]

Thankfully
Probs got tired of all the whining

[finite valve]

3.6 mill exp farm using sub

gg.com

[zenith tundra]

i'm still waiting for a pr cv

[elder crane]

RN I think might be best bet for PR CV, or wait til they move on to WoWS T10s

[vague token]

maybe alterprise could use PR mechanics?

[elder crane]

are any of the new RN CVs paper ships?

[vague token]

like reverse engineering siren tech

instead of cubes

[finite valve]

if anything dark royal is going to be the first alter

they tease her too much to just release alterprise first

[vague token]

fair

[finite valve]

which could happen at bismark event

[vagrant veldt]

I think there is one tier 10 PR CV

[finite valve]

let me guess it is from USN?

[vagrant veldt]

Hakuryu

[finite valve]

surprise they make JP instead of US CV

[elder crane]

Audacious also counts, the T10 planned UK CV

[vagrant veldt]

US had money they built a lot

[elder crane]

since it's the WW2 design, not the later one that was actually built

[vagrant veldt]

US PR ships were because they weren't good enough

They built all the good one

And the other nations PR were because they didn't have the money or other stuff

[elder crane]

Welll
The post-Iowa designs were scrapped since there was nothing to fight (and the wrong era for it too)

[vagrant veldt]

Montana cancelled for Essex pretty sure

[vague token]

they realized carrier was the way to go

meanwhile in AL

battleships yo

(and battlecruiser)

[finite valve]

funny how everyone and their mother said that the age of carriers is coming

when all the most OP shit are all BB

the irony

[elder crane]

Blame the poor design of stat scaling in AL, imo

[vague token]

they'd have to either release a busted tier carrier on the lines of centaur

[wicked rivet]

in AL BBs are op but irl carriers >>> BBs

[vague token]

or change carrier mechanics

so they can keep damage up like bbs can

and cut down those ridiculous aoe sizes on big bombs

so it isnt just nuke the screen

[vagrant veldt]

Fixing the aiming of torpedoes or spread of bombs also works

[elder crane]

Hard to think of a good way to change stat scaling to fix CV, without major changes

[vague token]

yeh, cause if they get more accurate

then their burst is too high

[elder crane]

putting a square root in AA dred would be a good start, maybe

in vein with how they fixed reload wayy back when

[vague token]

or add a moving main fleet for pvp using speed stats, that would nerf bbs

[vagrant veldt]

There's also Enterprise messing with balance

[zenith tundra]

i think they fucked up from when everything gives aviation stat making it harder to actually scale their damage at least compared to fp

[vague token]

it's the scaling and how much area saturation they have

like, cudas cover huge screen space

as does the 2000 pound bomb

if they didnt hike up AA stats in pve

you'd just evaporate the screen

as carriers got stronger

although ironically carrier gear hasnt gotten much better i guess

while bbs keep getting new gun options

for all modes lol

also very binary for pvp

since the stronger carriers are

the more forced belfast or eldridge are

and that's no fun

[elder crane]

Well, technically just hiking HP and maintaining AA keeps status quo relative to BBs

[vague token]

hiking hp hurts though when most carriers dont have the dps to compete

since the majority dont apply burns xD

[elder crane]

raw DpS scaling of CVs match that of BBs though, just some burst lost, which isn't an issue in PvP (PvE, separate issue)
why CVs get relatively weaker is AA dred scales up with no matching counter for BBs

[vagrant veldt]

What if AA affected evasion of carrier bombs instead of just damage reduction

[vague token]

the DpS may match but burn ticks push long fights back to BB/BC

[vagrant veldt]

2000lb just one hits...

[elder crane]

Burns exist anyways
if anything, faster reloads makes burns scale weaker

[vague token]

not really, you want burns to start asap

faster reload is always an advantage

[finite valve]

i mean isn't they already plan to make change to air mechanic like adding eva to planes?

[elder crane]

no, as in the amount of burn damage relative to gun damage remains the same or even lowers for the stat scaling with higher lv

[vague token]

oh, yeah cause it's just based on the primary attack stat

[elder crane]

And since raw DpS numbers scale same way for CV BB, burns is not the issue

[vague token]

i mean

if fights were like

2 minutes long

fire easily edges out cv dps

since it just keeps on ticking across the fight

[elder crane]

That would be the same at any ship level though

[vague token]

yeah, which means bbs would have the advantage long fight wise

[zenith tundra]

they need to hard nerf bb guns modifiers to match aa

[vague token]

if everyone was like 50k hp, you'd obviously win with bbs from burns

over cv

since they strike so slowly

and dont apply burns

minus two

[zenith tundra]

bb keep getting higher and higher dmg modifiers while cv stuck with same planes and same modifiers

[elder crane]

and reduced relative damage from higher AA

[vague token]

i mean if they introduced a dive bomber with anything more than 2k and 2 500s

it'd be busted

that's a nice vanguard you got there

shame if it evaporated

[elder crane]

FP/Avi increase offset by higher base HP
Hit increase offset by higher Eva
???? offset by AA dred

[vague token]

or introduce 6 boiler meta i guess

"just dont get hit" meta

[elder crane]

That is, any relative damage decrease is mostly met with an equal and opposite damage increase
except AA dred, which has no offset
So as stats scale up, naturally aviation gets weaker and weaker

[vague token]

i mean, even if we introduced like a bb armor stat

that just rewards fires more

since as well all know

dots are only affected by extinguisher

and amagi/hiei chan

so what if you have enough armor to reduce the bb shells to say

300-400

you're still on fire for a billion damage

although that might push essex to top tier lol, no extinguisher for flood

;))))

[zenith tundra]

al is a bb game. just take it as it is and throw cv 🚮

[vague token]

plus, any theoretical armor stat would probably just murder what little relevance CAs have

as it is

since i doubt they can separate the two

im pretty sure it's all just "gun damage"

ibuki top tier, i guess it wouldnt be that bad

;)

[elder crane]

I think the correct move isn't to scale down BB damage, since all that would accomplish is make fights even longer

[vague token]

long fights would be good

reduce rng ;)

[elder crane]

It's to somehow reduce the amount CVs are scaled down

Fights already get longer though, with the HP multiplier increase

[zenith tundra]

i think what they are trying to do is make cv more relevant for normal nodes but the problem is the shit ton of bomb boats they putted in every map but w13

[elder crane]

That too, for PvE
And how burst gets scaled down at higher lvs, relative to DpS

[vague token]

i mean, the hp multiplier is tiny

any dps front line is still nothing

[zenith tundra]

cv are amazing at normal battles but u cannot run them becuse bomb boats murder them

[vague token]

running gun destroyers would be a laughable strat

sure, big dps

good luck applying that

[elder crane]

Tiny my ass
it's, what, 5-6% every 10 levels?

[vague token]

3%

per level?

or was it .3?

i forget

[elder crane]

0.9+0.012*lv

[vague token]

it goes to 2.32

[zenith tundra]

sirius is interesting because of dd gun but even her can fuck up on auto easily

[elder crane]

2.22 to 2.34

[vague token]

yeah, if we had some flat bonuses maybe we could see dps destroyers show up

[elder crane]

5.4% increase

[vague token]

instead of just torpedo memes

[elder crane]

which is more % increase than base HP, I think, or at least comparable

[vague token]

but the multipliers only reward the biggest hp, aka bbs

[elder crane]

... that's not how it wooooorks
eHP is directly scaled up by that amount
same % is same % on anything

[zenith tundra]

cv in pvp are dead because ws just one shoots them idk how would u ever fix that

[vague token]

uh what, you're telling me that 25% on fdg

is equivalent to 25% on like ayanami?

there's no world that an hp multiplier is equivalent on low vs high

plus evade memes are easy to deal with since those are flat penalties ironically

[elder crane]

the amount of extra survivability it affords the ship is exactly the same
Suppose it came down to a fight of FdG vs Aya. then hypothetically boosting both ship HP by the same amount makes minimal difference in the averaged sense (not quite the case since also damage comes in bursts, but I digress)

actually, bad example since Aya is weakened from a different reason, cause she has frontload damage

[vague token]

i mean, unless your evade

multiplies aya's health by 5 times

not really

like fdg gets straight up 2500 hp

[elder crane]

say it came down to a CV vs BB duel
giving both 25% more HP hypothetically does not chance the outcome, ignoring breakpoints and just assuming damage comes in as steady DpS

[vague token]

except wouldnt it

because the good bcs/bbs all have more hp

than all the good carriers

unless the carrier evade is high enough to make up the difference

but that goes towards the bb as well

[elder crane]

like the time-to-kill amount gets scaled by the same
assuming they're balanced on damage output then, neither gains an advantage by everyone having more HP

[vague token]

oh you mean in the sense that cvs have more damage but less hp

so it doesnt matter?

[elder crane]

Like if you double the HP of all charas, it doesn't favour the tank, hypothetically assuming no other strange interactions
cause tank now has equally harder time killing others than others killing tank

[vague token]

i dunno, the tank gets more total hp than the squish

like 10k vs 1k

huge difference but easy to see

[zenith tundra]

then it's always 1st to strike 1st to win and bb have better options for 1st strikes over cv any day

[vague token]

damage stays the same, 1k needs more hits still probably

[elder crane]

you're not gonna run more tanks in your team though
and in the 1v1 duel, outcome doesn't change

[vague token]

it depends on how much damage the tank does relative to the squishies

even right now, 2500 hp vs 250 hp would be a huge difference

does a carrier with cuda even do 2500 hp of damage

extreme example

[elder crane]

not at all
say tank does 1, has 100
dps does 4, has 25 HP
outcome doesn't chance for 2X HP, assuming no other interactions

optimal team does not change either

[vague token]

yeah, but that isnt the case in al

all the tanks

still hit like trucks

i guess that makes them modern armor

lol

ayanami doesnt do 4x the damage of amagi

and amagi still has the hp lead

and thus it compounds further

[elder crane]

And we come full circle, to that if CVs are balanced vs BBs, then HP scaling doesn't change it assuming no other interactions
And if CVs are not balanced relatively, it's not the multiplier's fault

[vague token]

yeah, but that still ruins vanguards

since their hp is tiny

they wont get enough extra bulk to survive buffed cvs

which is why we have ykk/juneau as meta

xD

foreeeevvveeerrr

[zenith tundra]

vg always have been utility tbh

[elder crane]

look, there's no difference between, say,
VG dies 1 min in, main decided by 2 min
and
VG dies 1.5 min in, main decided by 3 min
which would be the naiive assumption of what a 50% HP increase would do

[vague token]

actually, that would give more opportunities for vanguard to participate

[elder crane]

naiive cause damage threshold and preload exists

[vague token]

threshold?

[elder crane]

oh, as in if you get overkilled, then a slight HP increase doesn't help; conversely, a tiny HP increase can be super impactful if it allows you to survive one more "hit" (burst)

[vague token]

oh, i only want a big hp boost to be fair

xD

like 5x-10x ;)

or flat boosts

maybe z23 might get used lol

then just adjust heals to flat

xD

basically i want to see a battle

not a farm

[zenith tundra]

5min pvp because ships have too much hp is the opposite of fun

[vague token]

i mean, we arent playing

it automatically isnt fun

at least i get to watch a cool epic battle

[zenith tundra]

i don't want to manual

[vague token]

instead of oh, it's over under a minute

what even happened

my vanguard died under 30 seconds and didnt even contribute anything

besides hit points

neat

[zenith tundra]

ur playing wrong game then

[vague token]

plus it would reduce rng for long fights

kek

i mean, playing is a strong word

;)

[elder crane]

X times HP scaling naiively doesn't change that
yes, survives for X times longer, but equivalently X times lower impact

[vague token]

that assumes you use weaksauce support ships though

[elder crane]

in fact, if anything, lowers impact since a lot of VG damage is preloaded in torps

[vague token]

i mean, moving away from frontloaded sounds good to me

[elder crane]

the amount of support benefit is equally dropped by X times

[zenith tundra]

maximum dps of a ship over the course of their cd doesn't really change especially for vg that have little rng like hitting one more torp or not

[elder crane]

Say, Helena, 40% increased damage, on X time relatively lower damage
dred, on X times relatively lower damage

[zenith tundra]

most ships don't even scale damage for vg

they actually go down over time due to lack of preloads

[elder crane]

a lot of utility is preload too

[zenith tundra]

the only ship that scales is roon

[elder crane]

and iirc no usable VG utility is backload

[zenith tundra]

and even her is not that much

[vague token]

i mean that's yostar's fault ;)

[elder crane]

except for maybe like PH if you can stretch her out that long

[vague token]

i dont think there's any possible vanguard main fleet setup that can get you to live

that long

[elder crane]

and then she does damage roughly equal to 1 Nagato barrage!

[vague token]

like the game is severely lacking in long fight rewards

it's no wonder hiryuu kai is so god tier

she turns all of the rush punches around

and just says no

[elder crane]

Cranes iirc the only ones that scale up appreciably

[zenith tundra]

they just released ws kai not to long ago that sinks an opponent 10 sec in... i don't see the game heading anywhere towards long fights

[vague token]

i know lol

all im saying is

nerfing aa

just murders people who barely participate

even faster

we'll just be stuck with the same old same old

forever

not that the trend has ever shown signs

of moving away

[zenith tundra]

just rebalance aa to like 175 instead of 150 won't murder anything that didn't die before

[vague token]

ugh stat changes xD

i just want to see dog fights

actual air superiority

[zenith tundra]

formula changes not stat changes

[elder crane]

like what they did for reload, on AA

or something

[vague token]

i mean doesnt that just make ijn superiority even more pronounced

lol

aka the only ships commonly with under 200 aa

[zenith tundra]

what now if u buff cv u need to nerf foxes?

[vague token]

besides the trash tiers

cause that just hurts ships like sodak/wash, who already get dunked by nagato existing

and that's kinda like their stick

[elder crane]

Yeah, tbh it might be too late to do that now, since too many ships are balanced around the current scaling
although that didn't stop them from murdering RNDDs with the eva scaling changes way back when

[vague token]

kek

[elder crane]

Nerfed eva scaling, then also double whammy with -evarate skill ships too

[vague token]

that and all the evade reduction skills are flat lol

so everyone just gets murdered extra hard

anyways, brb dinner good discussion

good to keep ideas flowing

[zenith tundra]

is armor break temporal in pvp? i'm pretty sure i just saw it disappearing after a while

[hot creek]

wasn't it always a temporary debuff?

[zenith tundra]

i didn't know that tbh

that makes it even more 🚮

also nowhere is mentioned it's a temporal one or last for the whole battle

[vague token]

i mean it barely exists in the first place lol

triple cube comms in nightly

LOL

[zenith tundra]

trash + trash + more trash + 1 oil comm for me

[vague token]

rip

[coral wren]

rip

I forgot to equip my pvp ships

and did a match and I looked away

and I lost

[ionic magnet]

i dont touch my pvp ships' equip anymore after that happened to me once

[hot creek]

well you could just stop not paying attention to the battle too.

[shy hazel]

all my researches are louis

[steep fog]

all my researches are never louis

[hybrid tendon]

just realized

to counter the enemy lineup

[vague token]

give plz

[hybrid tendon]

just have your nagato procs barrage everytime

easy right??

[vague token]

easy!

[shy hazel]

what do ppl use to farn roon

doucheland?

[vague token]

leipzig!

jk

[steep fog]

desu spee lepzig for quick farm

or

KKK for cheap oil farm

[shy hazel]

i dont do any lb0

anyways running out of gold again

poggers

real poverty

[vague token]

oof

[shy hazel]

tried alot of free comms

and cheap comms

all of them didnt give a single b

p

lol

[vagrant veldt]

Should still give some PR weapon prints. C research are pretty good for that

Unlike how the PR2 non gold/cubes research don't give both prints at all and purely waste time

[vague token]

almost done with bel, no maya

=/

guess ill give up

xD

[shy hazel]

anyways

i guess ill be far behind ppl in dev30

[midnight heron]

some ppl hav too much time

never fought such tanky bulins before

[vague token]

lol

all their 300 max hp

you mean

[midnight heron]

they definitely stacked lunchboxes

[vague token]

ah ok xD

yeesh my vanguard is dodging zero torps today

gotta level leander again xD

nothing like 60/40 matchup against nakaga jintsuu/aya/belfast because half the time vanguard insta dies at the 15

[ionic magnet]

why what VG are you using

[vague token]

minne/juneau/ykk

[steep fog]

minne?

[vague token]

i was thinking about sheffield but would probably die just as fast

just turns into main vs main

[ionic magnet]

how come they die that fast

[vague token]

dunno, i eat 2k torp crits pretty often

half dead from preloaded

sometimes juneau lost 70% from preload

[ionic magnet]

thats some real shitty rng

[vague token]

60:40 is pretty not rng lol

[ionic magnet]

that guy doesnt even have aurora

so ykkz should have no problem

[vague token]

it's probably the accuracy boost on nagato memeing me

but yeah multiple vanguard wipes on first air strike just torps and air strike

if i put minne in front beaver bulge gets ripped through obviously

sometimes ykk did live though

xD

good old 1v3

torp fights are too fast for sara to do anything

she needs bulky enemies for burn/flood ticks to accumulate

[charred sable]

that sounds very weird

I haven't seen my vanguard die in the first airstrike since the lvl 110 update

unless you're running torpedo glass cannon vanguard

[vague token]

na, im pretty sure it's just cause of torp glass

on their side

if i eat one torp it crit for 2k and then im too low to make it through air strike

[charred sable]

yeah, an unlucky torpedo glass cannon should at most only take out one of your frontline, but they should survive through the airstrike still

[vague token]

[charred sable]

worst case scenario should be torpedos rip through your first unit, then Nagato + airstrike puts your vanguard to like 20% HP or so

[ionic magnet]

tbh even when someone is using jint sendai aya i never saw a nakaga that can wipe VGs in 1 airstrike

thats w/o using belfast too

[charred sable]

this is assuming you're running a defensively aux'd frontline at lvl 110 and max enhancement

[steep fog]

ykkz should be able to survive

at most your bel and juneau will die

[charred sable]

Belfast with torpedo bulge should survive the torpedo initial burst even with Ayayaya buffs, but just barely

[ionic magnet]

torp VGs are the easiest to kill too cos most of them wear oxy kek

[vague token]

i stopped running belfast a while ago because most teams werent full all in torps + nakaga

plus im trying to get used to someone similar to saint louis

but yeah anything i run is usually very weak to frontloaded

i have a way better win rate against namagi hiryuu

just cause it's so much slower

and torp squad on that team doesnt actually follow up the spike damage

to force an early kill

so minne actually gets to shoot things

instead of dying with only 3 salvos lol

or w/e

that and i can avoid amagi duels ;)

i always lose those since i dont run 4 ijn

kek

and i lose the damage trades anyways cause lol defense barrage formation

but it's w/e since most people dont have fully optimized torp squad with nakaga since it gets hard countered by hiryuu anyways

and i COULD just swap her in

but then id have to abandon sara

and id feel bad

doesnt matter how frontloaded damage is when you invuln for 15 seconds

[real notch]

i almost lost a game to torp nakaga today

sometimes the torp RNG just cucks you

[charred sable]

Saint Louis should be even stronger with her giant ass HP pool

[real notch]

shit happens

[vague token]

i mean 6:4 isnt rng

it's mostly just not using hiryuu

to dunk on rush fleet

[real notch]

i actually can't wait for saint louis tho

god damn

[vague token]

ill use her when she's required

but she isnt forced yet

xD

[real notch]

i know i am late asking but how do you LB PR ships agian

[vague token]

dev level gives them stars

[real notch]

is it just collecting more BPs

[vague token]

and the barrage/preloaded/etc

[modest elbow]

increasing dev level consumes bps, dev levels at multiples of 5 give bonuses and stuff

[real notch]

what's a dev level

[modest elbow]

uhh, their way of enhancing stats

when you get the ship, it starts at dev level 1

[hot creek]

they get their extra stats from dev level instead of limit breaking.

[real notch]

thanks for answering my noob questions

[vague token]

holy, i got maya

on literally last run

just hit 10k

[odd schooner]

+0 for the 4th time today but

I saw a magnificent ykkz ram

1hp hiryuu backline ykkz vs ykkz 50% kaga

[ionic magnet]

kiro what are your auxes on minne and juneau

[odd schooner]

My ykkz kills enemy ykkz then rams kaga with quint rainbow torp

[ionic magnet]

im testing against your fleet rn and yea those two die fast

12.2k fp seems low

[charred sable]

I once saw my Juneau suicide against the enemy Hiryuu right before what would have triggered my Hiryuu's Final Counter

[vague token]

juneau was bulge/boiler, minne is obviously beaver bulge

although i just swapped to double boiler on juneau xD

cause i wanted to try it out

[charred sable]

This is the setup Im using atm for my vanguard

Yukkikaze is better off using a toolkit instead of the headband, but I wanted to inflate my numbers a bit 😛

[vague token]

i mean obviously i could swap in belfast

[charred sable]

you wont finish your Saint Louis for another 3 weeks or so anyway

[vague token]

shh

probably not for like 6 weeks since im super casual

[real notch]

level 110 saint louis?

ughhh that's so far away

[vague token]

110 wont be as hard as dev 30

you can just level up normally if i understand things right

and then cog chip to 110

but no bonus stats/barrage?

[real notch]

common saint louis usage in PVP probably won't come for another 3 seasons tho..

[vague token]

yeah

[real notch]

good news is she's a super strong PVP ship that requires lots of committment

which will bar the casuals even harder

i am evil for hoping that

[vague token]

ooh, bonus bp for saint louis

=D

on an hour long one

xD

[ionic magnet]

ya im seeing 2k dmg per torp so thats definitely no bulge

shes even your front vg you monster

tho minnea is really squishy too

portland is closer in tankiness if thats what youre testing

[real notch]

how much BP do you need to fully max one

[red nexus]

351, i think

[real notch]

what the fuck

LOL

[leaden sequoia]

343

[real notch]

that's a lot

i never bothered checking

i thought i'd just deal with it when the time comes lol

[leaden sequoia]

that's why they say you need a whole year to max out all 6 PR ships

and why getting all 12 PR ships to EN is a bad idea

[ionic magnet]

yea and we're getting like 5 a day from research

[real notch]

bring them to overwhelm the casuals

[vague token]

im definitely running bulge on minne lol, dont matter though xD

[leaden sequoia]

3/3/4/3/1/1 BPs rn

[real notch]

guess i better focus my ass on getting BPs

[leaden sequoia]

not including event and universal BPs

[ionic magnet]

@vague token oh i meant jun. but yea minnea has low base hp so

sanrui is cuccing me so hard. got 7 monarch and 9 sanrui lol

i do take sanrui comms when monarch ones are nowhere to be seen

[real notch]

i have 2 of each what the fuk u guys are beasts

[vague token]

oh yeah

bulge wasnt helping juneau live so i just said screw it double boiler

xD

[lament lichen]

i have 6 saint louis and izumo and 5 for hte rest

[leaden sequoia]

I am with req here

rng cucking me from getting sanrui bps

or I'm just noob at choosing projects

[ionic magnet]

btw you can tap the bp reward in the research panel to see how many specific bps they can give

helps in deciding which one to pick sometimes

[leaden sequoia]

I don't particularly focus on ship bps for now

pr equips

especially staag cuz I have few bofors to begin with

[lament lichen]

3/25 for the rudder

gonna end up with some other PR equip instead

[ionic magnet]

@balmy torrent does it? ill take note when i see one kek

[vague token]

man, zeppy is so great for solo backline

[odd schooner]

@balmy torrent you haven't cashed in little bel yet?

Oh pr needs 25 print

So far for a STAAG

[vague token]

they still work like gold prints

so it's consistent with all the gear

i cant wait to get washing machines xD

[odd schooner]

Gib STAAGs

[real notch]

[vague token]

ca guns plz

although nepgun is ok too

[vagrant veldt]

would want 152s. backlines using this can shred vanguards and in PVE can one hit 2k hp bomb boats

[vague token]

HE++ bois

jk

[steep fog]

gib staag+ washing machine pls

actually just gib 30mins research pls

[rare crater]

in pvp arena we get 4 targets. fight and winning the target on the most left gives more points?

[blazing scroll]

Yes

[real notch]

the more left, the more likely

[hot creek]

not always

well, fighting leftmost does give you most points out of the four it gives you

but sometimes the game gives you four lower ranked than you and fighting lower ranked players incurrs point penalties

[shy hazel]

someone gimme gold

[hot creek]

do you keep buying skins or something

[shy hazel]

research alrdy ate all

no choice but to cheap it out

do free research which gives shit

[charred sable]

Tfw attacking rank 9 won't even give me a bonus point

[shy hazel]

[hot creek]

gold expenditure for research hasn't been enough to cause a deficit for me

and im not even farming 7-2

[charred sable]

I actually gem exchanged for gold coins a couple times the past two weeks to buy skin boxes but luckily I completed my FAKKYU fleet just as these coin-eating research quests appeared

That and farming 8-4 for Bel-chan is giving me more gold again

[buoyant parrot]

my reserach gold is going to the skin box because of no fakkyu

I need 2 more fakkyu so I could stop spending on that shit box

[charred sable]

I don't have extra FAKKYUs for in the future when/if I change to 3 BBs or 2 CVs, so I'm still hoping I get more when I go back to completing the Kizuna Ai event farm

The road to Saint Louis is looking bright

Sweet, a second one

[empty sinew]

I like how he never mentions Belfast once even though she'll still be relevant for a while and FCR + 381 will just do barely anything shooting into her smoke

[shy hazel]

[empty sinew]

Even though he says "in 3 months", kinda doubt the foxes will die tbh cuz there'll always be casual rushers

[hot creek]

test what? extra accuracy? for crits or something?

I've tried with torp frontline using SG + dildo. doesnt do much. pretty sure double dildo would be better.

[rain isle]

You'll be surprised about CA Performance at Level 120. They're unrivaled by then. Still some time off in global but worth investing in already.

[steep fog]

all ca sounds like food to torp meme

[vagrant veldt]

likely to be burned down by 410 but CAs are very good in later chapters

[charred sable]

Boiler over repair kit?

750 HP + small regen (so effectively 1k HP probably) vs 8 speed

Right now the bulk of damage against vanguards come from air strike and Nagato barrage, both of which are effectively full screen, so I don't see how boilers do any good

[vagrant veldt]

410

1 shell over 1k damage then burns for another 5k true damage unless you have the very few skills that affect burn damage

I've seen single boiler Yukikaze evade every bomb from a CV

the extra HP from toolkit is comparable to stacking HP for CAs and neglecting evasion in PVE

[charred sable]

Hmm, I guess I'll have to experiment some, though I've got next to zero purple auxs left :(

[ionic magnet]

to me there's no noticeable difference between zero boilers and two boilers tbh

in the end the AI decides if you will get hit or not

its as overrated as oxytorps imo

[charred sable]

That's what I've also felt subjectively. The AI either decides to move into the shells/torpedoes, or away. Adding in speed will only make it happen slightly faster. Against slow moving torpedos, it will be even worse since you will run into even more of them

But objectively I've not tested it

[vagrant veldt]

around 124 speed is pretty comfortable

[charred sable]

I don't understand how speed would avoid CV bombs though

[vagrant veldt]

shells don't have prediction so they'll only catch it if they moved back into it

[charred sable]

Those are giant circles

[ionic magnet]

they do evade at times but they move back into it just as much

[charred sable]

The Vanguard would need to start on one side of the map during plane launch, then move to and stay on the other side through RNG

[vagrant veldt]

heavier bombs have larger spreads and just evading 500lb is pretty good

[steep fog]

I ran double boiler on ykkz

[vagrant veldt]

double boiler when she is the only one alive to too much speed imo

[charred sable]

The shells I can see though, but normal movement already handles that depending on whether or not the AI moves you back into the same location

Honestly just need to record and review a bunch of footage

[steep fog]

Double boiler ykkz never die to shell

Only die to unlucky torp hit

[vagrant veldt]

CVs also run ryuusei that does even more damage if not evaded

[steep fog]

Or secondary gun

[ionic magnet]

boiler ykkz is pretty disgusting yea but im not convinced that boiler is a must have

[charred sable]

And objectively say "did increasing the Vanguard speed result in more evades overall or not"

My guess is it will be slightly more, but the HP pool loss counters it

[steep fog]

Im thinking of running boiler + fire ext though

Unlucky burn can be huge

[ionic magnet]

im using 2 boilers rn just cos it keeps my fp at flat 13000

[charred sable]

62 general plates... Does not look like I'm in any position to experiment with boilers lol

[hot creek]

now that you mention it, I realize all those annoying solo yukikazes who manage to take the match to 2 minutes while the rest of their team and backline are dead were all unusually fast.

[vagrant veldt]

considering vanguards usually wont get the third tick from repair kit
double boiler evading just 1 HE shell which also sets fire is enough to make up the lower hp from using double boilers

[charred sable]

lol, I also trashed all my boilers, so that eliminates that option anyway

[hot creek]

https://puu.sh/Dp1e5/3f047e3ed4.png just make some more

[vagrant veldt]

increasing speed is benefiting the entire vanguard

[ionic magnet]

"benefit" is subjective

[hot creek]

well, when you're below a certain speed you have zero chance of dodging shells regardless of AI.

increasing speed to the sweet spot gives you a chance

[ionic magnet]

3 CLs with beaver dodges just fine

[charred sable]

@hot creek so I used to always make and break down gear cause I hated seeing unbuilt blueprints. That was until I realized how much coin I was wasting and how many excess white and blue plates I had

[ionic magnet]

also increasing speed lets you eat more torps

[charred sable]

Well at least I got my Kizuna Ai chip to throw on Yukkikaze

[leaden sequoia]

so a graph that shows the dodge rate per each speed value would be flat at the beginning, then have a spike somewhere, then grow linear?

[ionic magnet]

but i agree on the sweet spot thing. problem is knowing where it is

[charred sable]

Need objective data collecting via recorded trials

[vagrant veldt]

speed can protect backlines when attacking and sometimes throw off torpedos

[charred sable]

I don't have the gear to run the experiment so I volunteer someone else to do it

For the good of the kingdom!

[hot creek]

does AI chip work in PVP?

[ionic magnet]

idek how can we test that

AI cihp as in making your VG move in circles?

no it doesnt work

[hot creek]

rip

[ionic magnet]

would be fun if it did xD

[steep fog]

vg moving in circle means they die faster

[hot creek]

well, depends how big the circle is

[steep fog]

its small

[hot creek]

unfortunate

[charred sable]

So interesting.... Solo Yukkikaze frontline moves so fast that she dodges a lot of the enemy front line's normal guns lol

[ionic magnet]

its good for torp dailies kek

[charred sable]

But she can't dodge CV bombs of course

[steep fog]

bomb is hard to dodge

u are just hoping to dodge the torp wave

[charred sable]

She ran straight into half of the torpedoes lol

Before the homing adjustments even happened

[ionic magnet]

watching ykkz tank backline guns is fun until she decides to ram them

[charred sable]

Was interesting to see her move so fast though

Literally ate almost all the torpedoes lol, first going diagonally though, then going backwards super fast to eat the ones she missed

But I think that should be fine. Cause what this will let happen is that in the case where it's Yukkikaze vs enemy backline, her speed will let her dodge a few secondary guns from the enemy Nagato/Amagi and hopefully let her survive long enough for her to eat and waste the enemy Hiryuu's wave on her instead of on your backline

[vagrant veldt]

1 boiler yukikaze can evade most of the shots from the scary PR152s that backlines carry pretty well

[charred sable]

Hard to see in the screenshot but the secondary gun fire (cookie skin) from the enemy Amagi on the bottom of the screen is missing

[trail elm]

hey, does anybody have a link of vid to that infamous akashi counter against a namaryuu setup? i want to see how it was done

[wicked rivet]

AKASHI counter?

im intrigued

[trail elm]

yeah, iirc somebody countered a namaryuu in jp with an akashi.

[steep fog]

[hot creek]

sounds like a case of "i only had to reset hundred times to beat this meta comp with my meme comp, but I beat it so therefore its counters it."

[trail elm]

yeah, it wasn't as much as a counter as an interesting idea. i just want to see how it worked to see if i can replicate it with vestal-enterprise.

as for why, why not? i want to make enterprise work as best as i can possibly guarantee.

[blazing scroll]

I don't think that's the way to make enterprise work honestly

Even Shouhou + Helena would do more

[steep fog]

the way to make enty work is just proc all the time

[trail elm]

i have plenty of time til essex drops and/or louis is maxed.

[wicked rivet]

amagi, hiryuu, and enty are surprisingly annoying to deal with using a 3 BB setup

[elder crane]

Yep, enty or sara are okay as the flex slot option for Namagi for non-fox matchups

[odd schooner]

Someone was clearly not prepared

Fleetposting

Just wait for discount

I got longlegs first time around

I got 55 gems rn

[random vault]

has anyone begun encountering more of the akagichan shenanigans

[shy hazel]

sadly i dont remember anything i can destroy without effort

oh

i remember i met kiro awhile ago

[real notch]

There are definitely more namagis than before

Which make it somewhat interesting

[midnight heron]

i wud like to order a z46 kthxbye

[elder crane]

Isn't that still bugged, and gives no ships ever?
Also, did the micropatch fix akagichan?

[gray heron]

does sandy even count

i bet u can get her from blue techboxes

[wicked rivet]

its true

I opened a gray US box once and got a sandy

[bronze raven]

👀

[zenith tundra]

i think patch fixed z23 event that w7 hm didnt count towards the mission

since i was able to do that today while couldnt yesterday

how many do u have for saint louis? @real notch

[real notch]

idk lemme check

7

[zenith tundra]

[real notch]

yes i know i have nothing

[zenith tundra]

not even the belchan ones or u didnt include them?

[real notch]

uhh i didn't farm the belchan event yet

[zenith tundra]

the game is giving me roon pretty much already 23 for her

[leaden sequoia]

23

jesus

[zenith tundra]

i spent a lot of money on research. i would say around 60k already

[odd schooner]

[zenith tundra]

if i see roon or ibuki pr i usually go for them if not what is best out of the remaining

[wicked rivet]

[shell heron]

I saw it, a Namagi + Akashi def fleet. Why?

[wicked rivet]

wtf is akashi even there for

[modern tree]

ANTI AIR, BRUH

[wicked rivet]

she'll be dead before 35 seconds even passes

o maybe

i guess vs foxes it would be nice but also hiryuu is objectively better vs literally everything

[modern tree]

big brain

[wicked rivet]

smol af brain

[modern tree]

Akashi has 4 AA GUNS BRUH

BIG BRAIN

[shell heron]

I'm personally using Namauuga because BB shots are fun

[wicked rivet]

4 AA guns

where is she getting two extra slots now?

[shell heron]

but I read that some guy tested Akashi earlier and said it countered Namaryuu

[wicked rivet]

hyuuga a cute

[modern tree]

she gets AA mount +1

[shell heron]

[modern tree]

at lb2

[wicked rivet]

does that count as 4 AA guns

I guess kinda

yes

probly

[modern tree]

vestal doesnt get RELOAD and ACC and FIREPOWER

[wicked rivet]

akashi rld skill might be nice

[modern tree]

all the good things Akashi NEEDS

[wicked rivet]

but she can actually heal botes

[modern tree]

from Nagato

[wicked rivet]

and true, nagato's buff would help akashi and not vestal

[shell heron]

I mean if you're using Akashi to heal, just use Vestal

Akashi will get 1 heal off if lucky

[modern tree]

Its okay, whoever-you-are-mr-Akashi-player-sir, I understand

[real notch]

i fought that namagi akashi fleet just now

fully oathed too lel

it killed my nagato

and i was scared for a second

then i realized they only have 2 backline ships

[raw osprey]

how lucky can one get https://gyazo.com/ef36244aa9c2b36c8fdd83eb0f0e8d62

[wicked rivet]

i could be at 1709 if I hadnt dropped one earlier this season

[raw osprey]

ye but its still rly lucky

[shell heron]

5m warning

[zenith tundra]

why do we have to waste 4hrs of farming pr for 2 dumb ships... stupid update

[wicked rivet]

the leftmost person in my list is 40 spots behind me

[charred sable]

Is the bonus ship always dependent on what you're currently researching?

[raw osprey]

nah

[charred sable]

Damn, guess I've just been lucking out then

[midnight heron]

not sure if unlucky but i havent gotten a single saint louis bp o.o

tho im farming monarch

[modern tree]

or maybe I am seeing shit

I need to test it again

8-4 is 4 clears right?

I think I might have gotten extra ammo from question mark actually, shit, ima test it again tho

nvm, must've gotten ammo when I was not paying attention

[elder crane]

I was all excited to see someone in the top 10 in my queue
only 32 pts above me...

[zenith tundra]

i was awake and didn't notice that

[shell heron]

When you sandbag so hard that top 10s won't get you a +2

actually not even a +1

[half iron]

tfw you enter pvp and

why does your defense have sonars on?

[zenith tundra]

memes

[modern tree]

I sure am getting stalled rn

nakaga or whatever is dead

[elder crane]

Yeah, she can be super annoying sometimes

[grave gale]

people doing sos missions with their pvp fleet.

either they forgot or don't care

[leaden sequoia]

or they thought they would be done with 8 sos missions quickly enough but the server caught on that timeframe and got the fleet with asw equips

[wicked rivet]

Accidentally fought the rank 3 with no auxillarys on belfast

Opsie

Good thing I still got +1

[safe meteor]

what are the best pvp guns for Nagato?

[modern tree]

gold 381 from core exchange

dat about it, you can sub in purple 410 if you dont have that I guess

[elder crane]

Also an argument for running purple 410, since that has better gun damage and fires

[safe meteor]

and Aux weapon?

[elder crane]

155 for now, once you get it, the PR 152
Alternative: 127 for more AA vs CV-heavy teams

[wicked rivet]

and less spread too

[safe meteor]

155 gun is?

[wicked rivet]

belgun

[safe meteor]

ah that one

that really the best pvp gun?

for Nagato

[elder crane]

127 has lower range, so it's worse as a secondary unless vanguard is dead, it's used for the AA

In case you haven't heard yet, the ranges listed in-game are lies

[ionic magnet]

for nakaga i prefer 127 cos its better at killing enemy VGs when your own VGs die

for namagi you can do w/e so just go with belgun

[elder crane]

Idk if it's that much better, unless you lose the vanguard fight very badly

155 has more burst, so 127 isn't better until 10-20 s in

[safe meteor]

those guns are not good for pve though, right?

[elder crane]

For PvE, the 155 is fine, arguably BiS tied in most cases with it being best in some niches

[safe meteor]

ah, so i can just equip it to Nagato then

this event gave me 3 of Belgun

[ionic magnet]

really, from my own experience 155 takes way longer at killing VGs

[elder crane]

If they are at any significant HP, yes
If they're almost dead, no difference, 155 technically should be better there but I don't really notice it

the amount of secondary damage dealt when vanguards are alive, is noticeably higher for the 155

[ionic magnet]

ofc and im talking abt when enemy VGs are still at around half hp

[elder crane]

Yeah, 127 usually better then
maybe minus some cases like speed solo yukikaze

[ionic magnet]

and i dont really notice 155s doing much work when your own VGs are still alive cos they just miss anyway

[elder crane]

less significant for Nakaga where VG fight is over fast, I suppose

[safe meteor]

so its 127 vs 155 i see

[ionic magnet]

its for one of those times where a ykkz refuses to die

[elder crane]

in Namayuu it gets quite significant, 1.5k per BB at least unless their vanguard folds over

[safe meteor]

so whats a good anti ykkz gun for Nagato aux then?

[ionic magnet]

either way both are good

[safe meteor]

its prob the most common thats gonna be left as enemy vanguard?

[elder crane]

For now, yes

[ionic magnet]

are you using namagi

[safe meteor]

Nagaki

[elder crane]

in a few months PR ships will also be hard to kill and often make it into end

[ionic magnet]

wait whats nagaki

[safe meteor]

wrong name?

Nagaka?

[ionic magnet]

ah foxes kek

[safe meteor]

oops

[elder crane]

Nakaga is what it's usually called

[safe meteor]

thats what i wanna say

Akagi, Kaga, Nagato, that combination i always mix the name wrong

so PR ships, what does that mean as new teams?

[odd schooner]

Nah

[safe meteor]

none useful with the Nagato teams?

[ionic magnet]

anyways 155 or 127 is fine

[safe meteor]

ok

guess i go with 155 for now, since i prob gonna get even more from this event

[ionic magnet]

155 is more on offensive while 127 is more on defensive i guess

[wicked rivet]

I use 155 on nagato and 127 on amagi

and then another 155 on my dork

[elder crane]

PR, Nagato/Amagi/Hiryuu(or other option) will possibly switch vanguard to either Neptune or Louis with Juneau and Yukikaze

[wicked rivet]

does anyone have that chart of the times it takes to get to certain milestones in pvp

[shy hazel]

u mean ranks?

its in the pins

[wicked rivet]

I know the ranks, the pic I'm looking for had the timeline of it

[charred sable]

I want a reference chart that tells you how many points you should have on Day X assuming you dont get any bonus points and you dont miss any attacks

that way you can easily tell if you accidentally missed any attacks xD

actually, I think I'll go and make that chart later today lol

[wicked rivet]

that would be really useful

found it

[charred sable]

2d12h? that doesn't make sense at all lol

[elder crane]

tbh our gensui rushes are pretty casual I find

[charred sable]

unless it means week 2, day 2

[elder crane]

2d12h until end of season

[wicked rivet]

it means 2d12h until the season is over

[elder crane]

Friday midday reset

[ionic magnet]

its 2d 12h before end of season which doesnt make sense

[wicked rivet]

2200 points for fleet admiral, at 5d6h top is only at like 1750

[hot creek]

https://puu.sh/DpizZ/00ec9d149b.png oh fuck, time to crash?

[lament lichen]

gensui rush is like 12-15 hours at most

[elder crane]

Time to bring out HMS snipe team?

[raw osprey]

https://gyazo.com/c05499d2d25460f916509ded6e6f20dd

[elder crane]

ahh, we're in that time period now
where I have to wait half an hour after reset before rank 1 is 35 pts above me

[hot creek]

https://puu.sh/DpdwZ/145c292e2b.png

https://puu.sh/DpilT/97fa7b7a80.png

scammed?

[shell heron]

It's small for a reason

[elder crane]

that one averages about 2/1 on shipbp/equipbp
so you're not that much below average

My very first research, was the 4H 6k one and I got only 1 ship bp from it
It supposedly averages more than 3

Also, how many bonuses have y'all gotten?
CN forums say it should be 25% of the time for bonuses, but 23 projects now and only 1 bonus ever

[shell heron]

I'm with you there Bluerendar, rank 1 is only 36 points above me.

[hot creek]

oh well, at least it was sanrui.

all these izumos/ibuki BP im getting 🚮

[elder crane]

rank 1 still only 34 above me

[shell heron]

that means you're above me by 2 points

all these +1 resets making me fall behind

[hot creek]

i probably only got bonus BP like a total of three times so far

[zenith tundra]

i don't think i even got 3 tbh

[elder crane]

Okay, so did some calcs for Rudder on main fleet
Numbers are ignoring fire damage and plane suicide damage and rudder skill
SG/SG vs SG/+Eva tradeoff, to remind you, is about even trade of damage and eHP, to the tune of +12%/-10%
SG/+Eva vs 2+Eva tradeoff, seems very not worth it. Still about a 10-11% +eHP, but now damage loss is in the region of 15+%
Sorta averaging over Badge eva and Rudder eva bonuses, it tweaks the eHP numbers by about 2% either way

[vague token]

is there anything that lands in the 20-22 mark?

that you MIGHT dodge with rudder?

[elder crane]

Torps, maybe?

[vague token]

non reload boosted

jinstuu torps with nagato launch at like 16 or w/e

[elder crane]

Hiryuu strike iirc is a bit later
shots should be earlier if using 381

What's the travel time on torps to main fleet?

[vague token]

depends on which one of course

[elder crane]

Magtorps obviously

[vague token]

are the quad's faster though?

i thought they traveled faster

xD

[elder crane]

quads are faster in travel, but no homing means they pretty much never hit main, relative to magtorps

[vague token]

i meant quad magtorps

sorry

cause quads are faster than the normal quints

[elder crane]

oh, yes, they launch faster than the quad 610 I think

[vague token]

not sure if that carries over to mags

kk

[elder crane]

quad magtorp iirc launches before quint normals

[vague token]

wiki doesnt have torp move speed =(

[elder crane]

rainbow though, has longer load than the quad 610

[vague token]

yeah, it still matches quint format

[elder crane]

Accelerated normal CV strikes also might hit in that timeframe

[vague token]

just rainbow damage

i wish i had more quads from boxes

X-x

[elder crane]

or at least the second one
next to consider, is 40-42s, which accelerated normal CV defs have a chance of hitting into

[vague token]

yeah

or maybe a forced final counter

[elder crane]

Not sure if that lines up with any BB shots though
I'm sure it lines up with something, given the diversity of BB timings

[vague token]

like a rushed final counter might proc there?

that's pretty rng though

xD

[elder crane]

Will feel reeeeal bad though if it happens
Especially with Ryuusei

[vague token]

yeah

too bad there isnt a gold twin torp

that'd be hilarious

xD

[elder crane]

So assuming we just look at BB vs BB 1v1, it seems it's marginally better to swap out a SG radar for Rudder, loses about 10% damage for about 13% eHP increase (damage to, and eHP vs, other sources about match with these numbers)
Although it's probably more useful in terms of specializing ships, more eHP on the one taking more heat, more damage on the one taking less heat, maybe?

[vague token]

aka rudder sg nagato/mid

sg/hfcr amagi

unless you're doing some weird timing stuff

i guess

or maybe rudder over beaver on hiryuu

if someone is running hyuuga you can just negate the first salvo if you're lucky

[elder crane]

I think rudder/badge Nagato might be best

[vague token]

oh all in?

[elder crane]

maybe, if the Nagato lost damage isn't too much of a deal

[vague token]

might make the barrage more rng on evasive vanguards or just use it for main pressure

xD

[elder crane]

Also Amagi gets slightly less benefit and slightly more penalty in trading SG for Rudder
Difference between Amagi and Nagato is ~1% or less though

Probably due to luck and base Eva differences

[vague token]

right

that and she prefers more accuracy for slapping her main fleet opponent anyways

since amagi existing can troll you sometimes

10 flat evade >_>

oh, kizuna's torp barrage is a lot less impressive than i thought but maybe it hits ok

also she screams kizuna beaaaaam on all her skills

someone to rival sara finally

soon my debuff team will come to fruition

is there an icon when kizuna buffs enemies

xD