pvp

[silver folio]

id have to take out purple heart 😢

[coral wren]

and no 20% bonus

pure rng

[silver folio]

so coinflip meta, me like

owarida = win

[slow totem]

So... Kancolle then?

[coral wren]

heartstone meta

[slow totem]

[silver folio]

hearthstone is actually pretty skill once u get into the top8 category

very consistent game imo

[coral wren]

lol

[slow totem]

Still a card game in essence tho

[silver folio]

yeah its still RNG bullshit

but i see the same names a lot in the top 8

[high flume]

"very consistent game" "heartstone"...you can only choose 1

[silver folio]

no, its fairly consistent for a CARD game

[coral wren]

Imo it gets shittier and shittier with every new expansion

[silver folio]

it'll nevefr be chess ofc

@coral wren i dont doubt that, old metas were better

[high flume]

Shadowverse is way less-rng

[silver folio]

no shadowverse is legit shit

take it from a GM shgadowverse player

i went HS > SV > HS > AL

shadowverse is way more stupid than HS ever was

[slow totem]

Weebstone

[high flume]

well the gameplay is inferior for sure..but still less rng tho

[silver folio]

no, theres lots of rng in shadowverse

random destruction efffects

random damagep ings

random monsters on evolve

random effects from prince of coctyus

and since the games are so short, a litte bit of RNG destroys ur game

[high flume]

sigh....alreight then... how bout Duel Links

[silver folio]

never played it tbh

i only play this game now

[pastel forge]

#off-topic

[silver folio]

thanks mr off topic police

[coral wren]

If hiryuu retro gets to en on this event then... rip lucky e i guess

[silver folio]

if hiryuu retro gets to en

im gonna enjoying every pvp fight lasting the time it takes to get a college degree

[coral wren]

hakaga kinda annihilates every e setup rn, correct? In daxam video i think the only not mirror match that could barely by some miracle take down that cheese fest was wasd+e

[silver folio]

i dont know

EN meta is entirely diff

we dont have the hardhitting vanguards

[subtle whale]

who hakaga

who the ha

[coral wren]

hood

[silver folio]

oh

hood/akaga?

[coral wren]

yes

[subtle whale]

o

[silver folio]

false

hood/akaga isnt autowin against E

i ran hood/akaga :3

[subtle whale]

yeah hakaga destroys enterprise

[silver folio]

its decent against enterprise

but u can still lose against WASD+E if hood doesnt proc

[subtle whale]

but doesnt mean they will win vs the other two ship

aka wasd

[silver folio]

the most important part is that if u annihilate enty

u win

if u dont, might need a reset

cannot let that enty go off because foxes are too squishy lol

[subtle whale]

maybe we will get a comp of

b akakagi

[silver folio]

akakagi?

[subtle whale]

bb akaga

akagi

[silver folio]

from what i heard kaga isnt t hat great

[subtle whale]

o rip

[silver folio]

also u would never run bb kaga and akagi/kaga

u would do nagato/akagi/kaga

[subtle whale]

cus we dont have nagato

[silver folio]

bb kaga not that great imo...

(i acutally think enterprise/foxes would be better LOL)

[pastel forge]

amagi is the meta pvp stuff from upcoming event, bb kaga not so much

[subtle whale]

ekaga loses to hakaga

amagi with wasd sounds spicy

tanky backline

[silver folio]

honeslty

i just want nagato

[subtle whale]

same

[silver folio]

i want my pvp fights to end in 12s

[subtle whale]

same

[silver folio]

faster i can end it, more time i have to farm world 10

[subtle whale]

why world 10

[silver folio]

jintsuu st louis

[subtle whale]

guess you dont have enough skill to get thier drop loser

[silver folio]

feelsbadman

took me like a month to get foxes

[coral wren]

I want cn meta to come to en. Imagine the salt of those who sandbag

[silver folio]

why would sandbaggers be salty

jw

[subtle whale]

what a sandbag

[silver folio]

means attacking at the last moment

if ur opponent has a point lead over u, u get more points

aka ur leftmost opponent

i dont do it because im lazy af

[coral wren]

I just imagine them all attacking in the last 10 mins before reset

[silver folio]

thats not proper sandbagging

proper sandbagging is checking every hour, its really awful shit

dont do it lol

[coral wren]

but with that, it will be a random/mind gaming all along

[subtle whale]

i just attack 10 min

[silver folio]

i just attack on reset tbh and be done with it

[subtle whale]

before reset

[silver folio]

this season i didnt even attack at all

[coral wren]

And if checking every hour, it just spices things up more i think for those who craving for top 10

[silver folio]

u dont need to sandbag for top10 tbf

[pastel forge]

ye, sandbag isn't necessary for gensui, just need to make sure not to miss attempts

[silver folio]

i got #1 and i just attacked on reset

stupid alphabetical ordering tho

[subtle whale]

i havent reach fleet admiral yet

you just attack when you have 10 right

[silver folio]

u attack at 10 until 5

wait for next cycle

attack 5, is pretty easy tbh

thats not proper sandbagging though, proepr sandbagging is calculating enough diff for a +11 then attacking

making sure to use 5 entries before every reset

[subtle whale]

so what you do with the spare 5

[silver folio]

resets only give 5

as long as u dont waste any entries

u blow all of them when gensui season opens

[subtle whale]

so at fleet admiral?

[silver folio]

yeah

tbh just dont waste any entries thats the most important part

and reset fights u think ur going to lose

u dont have to END at top10, u just have to hit top10 at any point during gensui season

ending at top 10 is impossible for a non-sandbagger

(by that i mean end of season)

10/10 -> 5/10 -> 10/10 -> 5/10, gensui season opens, 0/10

or just do 5/10, 0/10, 5/10, 0/10

it really doesnt matter, just dont waste ur entries

u can even go pure lazy and do 10/10, 0/10, 10/10, 0/10

[modern tree]

@silver folio fyi the leaderboard is not alphabetical, it orders people by who got there first

[silver folio]

F then

that last hiryuu fleet must have rekt my day

[slow totem]

I just tested Cygnet Retro (cause Kimono skin is berry cute) against Torp Meme Squad

And her battle-start smokecreen works consistently against the initial torp spam

Wtf is dis

WOKE af boiiii

[silver folio]

yeah thats why rianda is good

[slow totem]

Mein Blewn

[silver folio]

smokescreen also lines up with o warida

wewwww lad

[slow totem]

And with her around, Minneapolis moves fast af boiiiiii

[silver folio]

i was wondering if u have takao

[slow totem]

I have her

[silver folio]

ah im assuming not skilled then

[slow totem]

[silver folio]

u might like her over minnie because

double rainbow oxytorp makes some good memes

if u get lucky u can chunk some dd comps at begin of battle

double shot , double torp = :irislul:

[slow totem]

Interesting proposal.

But Takao doesn’t have the Monster Hunter aesthetics

[silver folio]

only problem is she die really quick to

yeah minnie is minnie

no way aroundit

[azure aurora]

You all talking about CA for pvp

[slow totem]

Yes

Mindblowing, isn’t it?

It works.

Esp against Aurora

[azure aurora]

Anime villain will say "20 lv too early"

[slow totem]

Anime heroes will defy the trend and hipster their way to victory

[azure aurora]

Yeah and somehow anime heroes always proc operation rainbow to heal minne

Power of friendship

[slow totem]

Pun very intended

[subtle whale]

level 120 nao

[real notch]

@coral wren help?

[vague token]

is it just me or is aurora really squishy for a CL

[modern tree]

Low health, okay evasion, she's paper unless buffed by QE

[vague token]

ah, i just saw her getting blown up when a few times when the defender had her

[odd schooner]

She's soft

And there's a bunch of ppl who puts their aurora in front

[modern tree]

Like this? Lintence makes me giggle every time

[hot creek]

not really. I cringe whenever I see that.

that "xD" at the end really ties it up

[modern tree]

He's one of very few on Sandy with real AA setup

[hot creek]

whats that suppoed to mean, 6 bis AA?

[modern tree]

Actually walls my +6 oil tank and catapult foxes instead of just dying to it, like everyone else

So probably good mix of ufo bofors at +10. I swear barely anyone I fought in 3 days had AA that did anything

[hot creek]

should have fought me

i haven't been leaving belfast on defense tho

[modern tree]

Hard to snipe you when I am nr 1 and you are nr 2. I tried

Sandy is so casual that I have mild regrets I didn't really know what I was doing when making account. On the other hand, I am on my way to top 3 for collection percentage so there's that

[hot creek]

never getting avrora feelsbadman

[subtle whale]

dont worry the game hates avrora

san diego for exchange every reset

[modern tree]

Avrora is gonna be available together with best skins in game for anniversary so in my case I will only be missing Maryland cuz after dumping 200 cubes for a dumb purple ship I did a reasonable thing and gave up.

Getting walled by AA is probably going to be my return to HMS tho. Gotta finally see if Suffolk backed by Aurora can meme hard enough

[hot creek]

oof. I'd be missing kalk and a bunch of other random event DDs

also still don't have benson even though she's apparently in light contruction now

[modern tree]

Suffolk doesn't shoot often enough to put the big damage to work. Mgm+1 only for CA atm probably, might as well not bother with torps

[lone pendant]

wichita 👌

[coral wren]

i swear, restarting a pvp fight over and over is not worth it in the long run, waste of time and one of these days you'll forget to pause and exit before your fleet loses due to bad rng COUGH ENTY WHY DIDN'T YOU PROC

[hybrid tendon]

200 cubes for maryland

lul

since we got the rerun version

the event is not gonna be back

anytime soon

[coral wren]

@real notch aye sir. What aa do you use on rear and vanguard? Bofors on vang and 113 on rear? Or...

[odd schooner]

gotta go fast ♿

[elder crane]

Rear and front AA is separate, so rear AA only ever hits planes once: so, run 113s for highest single-shot damage and highest chance to hit a plane

Supposedly Frontline can use bofors to get two shots off more often in ideal scenarios. Honestly, not really a thing imo, our current AA selection means very little optimization is possible (range sacrifice of bofors means it's not that much more likely to get 2 hits, if at all, and allows more planes to leak past uncontested), and staggered launches or a ryuusei fighter means almost every team only gets 1 AA hit per plane. I'd just go 113s on all for higher dmg per hit (105 next best)

If you do mix in bofors, place bofors on lowest reload ship for best team reload effect, or lowest AA ship for highest team AA damage per hit

[coral wren]

Hm, so bofors for the rear. Yeah, i thought that it's quite common for boffors to proc twice on vanguard

[elder crane]

Reload is longer for 113/105, but longer range means planes spend more time in aura, almost completely offsetting the effect.

And, Backline AA in PvP is not averaged into the team! It is separate and centred on Backline ship, so only 1 hit is ever possible, so run the 113s for best single-hit damage.

Bofors on Backline for PvE, but 113s in PvP instead

[coral wren]

Ah, ok, i get it! Thanks!

[real notch]

Mix in bofors and 113s between back/front

When vanguard dies you dont want to lose all your Rof

And two-shots is possible in current EN

Average RoF empirically tested is 1.4-1.5sec

You can get that RoF with up to 4/5 of your guns as twin 113mm

But because of variance of reppuu takeoff positioning you want to undershoot your rof a bit

So go for 3/5 or 2/5 guns as twin 113mm

[elder crane]

The range loss of bofors almost completely offsets the gain of reload, so my calcs indicate very little effect overall

[real notch]

Im out atm but empirically testing stacking twin 113mm is the best way to get fucked by reppuus

Because of dispersement of planes, the the extra range gain wont let you alpha shot the "meat" of the plane swarm

[azure aurora]

Double Hellcat or reppu cat for foxes ?

[elder crane]

More range = longer time planes in AA, so should be roughly same avg number of hits

Reppu for one definitely

[real notch]

You'll shred the first few planes then have enough RoF to shoot the tail end of the swarm

You can test it empirically

Its pretty widely agreed that AA circles can fire twice in EN

Even with reppuu baiting

Double reppuu apparently @azure aurora

I don't have personal testing but people with 2x reppuu say it is bis

And i agree

Spreading the dispersement of your planes as much as possible is the key

[coral wren]

Is there a drastic difference between reppuu and v17?

[elder crane]

Yes, but chance to fire twice should almost be the same for 113s and bofor mixed since range loss (and therefore less time spent in AA) mostly offsets the rof difference

Maybe not as much for one bofors, since too much range eventually becomes wasted (since AA range behind the backline is useless), but 2 bofors on vanguard doesn't seem beneficial at all (every full 113 setup has better team range-to reload ratio than any mixed bofors setup)

Reppu has fastest plane speed, and so goes ahead of main wave to bait AA and spread out stike wave

V17 has normal speed and loses this effect

[real notch]

Very drastic difference

Relative to other 500lb fighters

Check the touchdown, hp, speed, and loadout stats

There is even hidden stat boost in vf17 bombs

Tier 0 500lb pound bombs vs tier 3

[coral wren]

Ah, damn. I'm not having reppuu, and since wiki doesn't show the speed stat(or am i just can't find it) i can't check it for myself 😦

[real notch]

Wiki is not good place to check data

Check cn or jp wikis

Or i can link u later to translated pg

[elder crane]

Doublemint or ayase's guides have these stats

[coral wren]

Oh yeah, that would be much appreciated!

[elder crane]

For easy English reading

[real notch]

Yee i was just helping doubleminto with his plane guide

Am excited to read it

[elder crane]

The fighter AA testing seems interesting, with some possibly unexpected conclusions

Should be nothing that changes PvP loadouts though

[odd schooner]

mint was having plane nightmares on the first week of it

wait so it's possible to go 4 113mm

so 2 bofors 4 113mm?

[elder crane]

Backline AA in PvP is detached from Frontline, and is it's own thing centred around the ship iirc

It isn't averaged into the Frontline AA like in PvE

For a solo gun far in the back, you'll only ever get 1 hit. 113 has best range to true reload ratio and therefore highest chance to get a hit, and highest per-hit damage. Therefore, always 113 for backline in PvP

[odd schooner]

so 6 113mm

[elder crane]

1 bofors on Frontline definitely makes sense I think since excess range extending behind backline is useless, 2 bofors maybe but I doubt it

[odd schooner]

how about 1 pompom

[elder crane]

The octuple pompom has abysmal range with worse reload than bofors, probably a bad idea since we want to maximize chance of two AA hits per plane

So we want best Frontline range-to-true reload ratio, but also accounting for the fact that extra range of Frontline extending behind backline is useless

[coral wren]

The positioning for 113/bofors doesn't matter at all, right?

or rather for aa

in general

[elder crane]

Mostly no, but there are small differences

[coral wren]

im pvp at least

[elder crane]

Bofors has slightly less damage, so mount on lowest AA ship to maximize overall damage

The way reload formula works means that having the lowest reload time gun on lowest reload stat ship gives slightly less reload time across the team than giving it to the highest reload stat ship

Both effects are pretty minimal, <5% minus the most extreme cases encountered

Normally, AA has bigger difference between ships, so the first effect is more significant pronounced (barring extreme outliers like Laffey)

[coral wren]

got it, thx

[real notch]

@coral wren link for fighter stats http://azurlanesanctuarygrossweebskeepout.blogspot.com/2018/09/azur-laneen-in-depth-equipment-guide_20.html

personally, i don't recommend more than 3 twin 113mms

[lament lichen]

first thing i see

[real notch]

just based off of empirical testing of mine

[lament lichen]

base damage stat useless

seems right

[real notch]

but difference is not that big unless if you like minmaxing

yea

base damage stat is useless

[lament lichen]

too bad i dont have reppuu

started too late

[real notch]

it's a convoluted weighted average number that gives no useful information

when deciding which fighter is better

if you want the TLDR

[coral wren]

noice, thx mate! That's a lot of info

[real notch]

look for 6x 12.7mm MG loadouts or 4x 20mm cannon + 2x 12.7mm MG loadouts

[slow totem]

Does going all in on 113mm can still make me reliably reach Gensui?

[azure aurora]

Im using 3 bofors

[coral wren]

i have only 2 boffors and 0 donuts 😢

[cursive canopy]

Just finished HMS team and I gotta say. Super disappointed

[azure aurora]

Ofc with wasd meta

[slow totem]

@cursive canopy You aren’t using it right.

Mine trumps WASD Enty/Hood, Hood Foxes, Hood Enty Lusty, what have you.

Also Torp Meme vanguard dies at 15 seconds mark with my HMS.

👌

[cursive canopy]

I can show you gear if you want

[slow totem]

Just use twin410mm on everyone and gold FCR on hood

[lament lichen]

you can go full 113 and still get gensui

[slow totem]

And Edinburgh contributes little, use Juneau.

[azure aurora]

Yeah our goddess juneau

[slow totem]

Jesusnau

Died for their sin

[cursive canopy]

Have twin 410 on hood and 406 on other

[slow totem]

No wonder

Strictly 410mm for BB PVP ships

Accept no subtitutes

[azure aurora]

Juneau is must if you use bb

Aurora for foxes

[slow totem]

@lament lichen Wunderbar! I have a fetish for the Roomba, with its cute shape and flexing 35 range.

[cursive canopy]

I also use double FCR on queen and warspite

[slow totem]

Queen gets Beaver Badge and SG Radar

Double FCR on Warspite, keep it.

[coral wren]

Y, i learned it the hard way, 410 all the way. Global cd is just irrelevant

[slow totem]

410mm on every single PvP BB, not just HMS.

[azure aurora]

[slow totem]

Ez snipe, ez 15 seconds kill (of Enty/Fox and most vanguards).

No Enty, No Problem, Ez Life, Ez Merits.

[real notch]

maxed HMS fleet is 13k backline

you are missing a lot of optimal ships/gear/skills

[slow totem]

What’s max Full Meme HMS?

[coral wren]

[slow totem]

With all the meme big dicc fleet number gear possible crammed in

[real notch]

i'm not sure about the meme versions

[cursive canopy]

ok so, replace who with juneau?

[slow totem]

Edinburgh

[cursive canopy]

leander still good?

[real notch]

probably a good HMS line up is like

juneau belfast aurora

or some shit

that would probably work quite well

[slow totem]

Leander still good, I’d prefer Fortune over her unless I’m facing Torp Meme Vanguard.

[real notch]

ye if aurora doesn't exist you can use fortune

fortune is pretty good

[slow totem]

That opening smokescreen really puts a rekt on torp meme Vanguard.

Found out the good way yesterday

[cursive canopy]

well then i guess i have a lot of work to do

[slow totem]

And my backline kills torp meme vanguard at 15 seconds anyway, so no problem for 2nd torp spam.

[cursive canopy]

back to the grind

[slow totem]

Grind grind, grind your boat.

[azure aurora]

[cursive canopy]

most of my equip are +6

[slow totem]

Yeah, that affects too

[coral wren]

amagi with no nagato is pretty meh, correct?

[slow totem]

Lots of factors really

[cursive canopy]

but even then, foxes perform a lot better

[azure aurora]

Still good

[slow totem]

Nah, she’s good.

[lament lichen]

amagi is already good without nagato

[azure aurora]

But not as bs as nagato

[real notch]

maxed twinfox + hood is 12905 backline

iirc

[azure aurora]

Ringed ?

[slow totem]

Maxed as in for the sake of big dicc fleet number?

[real notch]

naw

maxed as in BiS

BiS maxed

[slow totem]

[real notch]

idk any numbers for "big dicc fleet" numbers xd

[slow totem]

You know big dicc fleet for WASD E right?

[azure aurora]

Time to use foxes with btd and double steam cata for deff

[slow totem]

13.7k or something

[azure aurora]

Ah too bad no +10 btd

[real notch]

xd damn

that's a pretty big D

[cursive canopy]

so are leander and endinburg useless?

[slow totem]

BigTDicc-1

Edinburgh pretty much

[real notch]

not useless

[slow totem]

Leander is good if you face Torp Meme vanguard

[real notch]

edinburgh is like cleveland

[slow totem]

If no torp meme vanguard, use Fortune.

[real notch]

good but not great

so has anyone done some big D testing with 3CV

[slow totem]

Better use Cleveland than Edinburgh lol.

[azure aurora]

No

[cursive canopy]

what is torp meme squad?

[real notch]

3CV seems to be getting some interesting results

[slow totem]

Ayanami, Jintsuu, Aurora

[real notch]

like very high winrates as defense fleets

[azure aurora]

3 btd is really meh

[cursive canopy]

why is that meme? isn't jintsuu and aya good combo?

[slow totem]

3 CV gets into a brick wall with my WASD NoCal + Juneau suicide vanguard

[real notch]

lol

[slow totem]

I deliberately let my vanguard dies shortly after the 1st airstrike

[azure aurora]

For attacker yes

[slow totem]

So my BBs direct their full attention to the CV paper backlines

[lament lichen]

ayaya in pvp

[slow totem]

While shredding their vanguard with twin 127mm spam

[azure aurora]

Works with foxes

[slow totem]

Ez strat

[azure aurora]

Very good at gensui time

[real notch]

@modern tree any tests with 3CV?

[azure aurora]

Less than 40sec

[modern tree]

Ah yes

[slow totem]

I wonder if I should use WASD Hiryuu just to cockblock CV spammers?

[azure aurora]

[slow totem]

Since it guarantees a win anyway, so no problems to BB users.

[azure aurora]

Raising hiryuu rn

[real notch]

twinfox + ent will airstrike at intervals of 13 seconds

but the delay it takes for first touchdown from airstrike is 2 seconds

since hiryuu cloaks for 15

it's not too likely she'll actually cloak 2 waves of airstrikes

[slow totem]

So at minimum, how much time do I guarantee to waste their time with WASD Hiryuu + Juneau Belfast?

[real notch]

unless if she cloaks right at the end of 1 airstrike

well

going by my theory

waste their time by winning

[lament lichen]

just go full stall team

[slow totem]

If you make fox users win long, you’ve already won

Since the main purpose of running foxes is fast wins.

[lament lichen]

juneau mid

[real notch]

ye

the problem with optimizing against bullying foxes

is you start losing the advantage against wasd fleets

[lament lichen]

you just have to accept that then

[slow totem]

Don’t care, I just want to cuck Foxes. :O BB users get free passes.

[gritty cove]

Would it be better to use hood or enty with wasd

[modern tree]

It's fast and effective, but my feeling on the matter is that not a lot of people know how to optimize their AA even if they have fleet power indicating bis. I got very polarising results based on players I face. Some get blown up through Belfast smoke and make you wonder if it's still bugged, some wall both your foxes and non E Enterprise strike and you start regretting using this many planes.

[slow totem]

Both have their own pros and cons.

[real notch]

@gritty cove for the purpose of my own testing do twinfox + ent

[gritty cove]

Twinfox and ent is terrible

lul

[slow totem]

If the enemy has their own E, i’ll use Hood

I don’t want a Red Dead Redemption 2 duel in my match

[real notch]

hmmm

[slow totem]

[real notch]

ok i guess not enough stats eh

is your twinfox + ent maxed?

[modern tree]

Akaga ent performed better than akaga hood in my tests tho

[real notch]

you're juneau + jintsuu + aurora right?

[strange patrol]

I am in need of a tier list for pvp dose one exists?

[real notch]

or wat is it

[gritty cove]

I just wipe fox enty fleets so I don't even use it

[slow totem]

Attack =//= Defense

[strange patrol]

Foxies Warspite:3

[modern tree]

And I don't have enough oil tanks + catas. Ran it with Jintsuu Juneau Aurora, but I think Belfast might be better up front instead of Jintsuu

[real notch]

here is my patented tier list @strange patrol

sirrequiem pvp tierlist 1.0.3

Tier 0:
Wasd + Ent

Tier 1:
Wasd + Hood
Akaga + Hood
HMS

Tier 2: 
Akaga + Ent
Wasd + Illustrious

Tier 3:
Ent + Illustrious + Hood
HMS with Illustrious

**Note: Illustrious gets significantly stronger when paired with eldridge

[slow totem]

Attack only

Defense is different as different purposes

[lament lichen]

akaga + washi :>

[strange patrol]

Wakanda?

[slow totem]

My ‘defense’ fleet is:
Warspite
Enty
Yamashiro

Eldridge
Nicholas

[strange patrol]

Never see t

[slow totem]

All wearing the Santa outfit

[real notch]

ok dw @modern tree i'll start doing some testing

[strange patrol]

Where dose wakanda drop? Don’t think I have seen her

[real notch]

i'll look for maxed (or relatively maxed) wasd e fleets and hakaga + HMS fleets

[slow totem]

@real notch What’s the most meme Defense fleet that can very rarely bamboozle attackers if the stars align?

[modern tree]

Also started running into problems with Ryuseii where all of the torps would go into sodak and make me cry, lol

[slow totem]

Just for fun curiosity

[real notch]

xd

idk

[slow totem]

Assuming all skill procs

[gritty cove]

June, belf and aurora prob the best choice

I still prefer my torp meme

[slow totem]

Torp Meme is hella fun

Hella fun to use, hella fun to fight too

[strange patrol]

My main team.. that struggles in privet.....

[slow totem]

I love em

[real notch]

i actually ran my 13.2/12.6 wasd e fleet against a 3CV fleet

and lost 4/6 games

in my tests

[lament lichen]

what

[real notch]

so i'm pretty eager to do the test in reverse

[strange patrol]

Hmm weird my photo isn’t sending

[slow totem]

Clyde hates that photo

[gritty cove]

Enty is a bitch

[slow totem]

Clyde is weird.

Don’t you mean Atago?

Literal bitch, also in heat.

[azure aurora]

[strange patrol]

She would duck your dog when you sleep

[gritty cove]

Atago is my secretary bich, please

That live2d

oof

[strange patrol]

That’s how much of a thot she is

[slow totem]

Wonder if her new oath skin has Life2D

[azure aurora]

Nope

[slow totem]

Sad day.

[azure aurora]

But l2d oath skin... Good idea

[slow totem]

Unlock L2D of this skin for an additional 500 gems.

[strange patrol]

But yea my current pvp team is, QE,WS,unicorn(sometimes lusty). Takago,Bel,fortune

And I lose in privet with them 😭

[slow totem]

Unicorn needs to let go for Hood,

[real notch]

damn

takago

sick

[strange patrol]

Pfft hood runs from me

[coral wren]

i actually ran my 13.2/12.6 wasd e fleet against a 3CV fleet
Was that akaga+e?

[real notch]

ye

twinfox E

[azure aurora]

Hms without hood is bismarcked HMS

[coral wren]

Interesting,,

[real notch]

interesting right?

i was 90% winrate against wasde fleets

[slow totem]

Twinfox E gets to meet my WASD NoCal Suicide vanguard.

[strange patrol]

I got terps

[real notch]

there's something about that fleet

that seems to work very well in terms of timing synergies

[strange patrol]

Would that work? Terps better then uni?

[azure aurora]

Tirpz ?

[coral wren]

What was your vanguard?

[real notch]

jintsuu aurora eldridge

[slow totem]

@strange patrol No, Hood. XD Tirpitz isn’t HMS

[strange patrol]

Correct I do not own a hood

[slow totem]

[real notch]

the reason 3CV works is because

[azure aurora]

Qe ws lusty then

[real notch]

desron vanguards with foxes can wipe by 4:46

[coral wren]

Could it be the outcome of not having belfast?

[azure aurora]

Add eldridge

[strange patrol]

;-;

[real notch]

yea belfast is definitely a factor

[slow totem]

So... so... you’re saying

[real notch]

i wasn't optimized against foxes but his fleet wasnt optimized either

[slow totem]

I can use Ram and Rem reliably in PvP?

[real notch]

he had fucking juneau

and was wiping my shit by 4:46

also his backline was like 13.1k

total garbage backline

[lament lichen]

who is this man on avrora

[real notch]

forgot

[azure aurora]

Ram rem ?

[lament lichen]

gotta fight his team

[real notch]

some nobody

[lament lichen]

dam

[azure aurora]

8-1 and 8-2 ?

[slow totem]

Desron is Akatsuki, Ram, and Rem, right?

[real notch]

not very important, it's best to take his idea and polish it into a legit fleet

[azure aurora]

What ?

That build is legit ?

[real notch]

no desron = destroyer squadron

[slow totem]

I dunno, Sirreq said Desron

Sad.

[real notch]

characterized by torpedo DDs with a CL/DD flagship

[slow totem]

Double Sad.

[lament lichen]

what the 13669 vanguard with belfast ayaya javelin ...

[slow totem]

Meme equips?

[real notch]

idk

[lament lichen]

full oath

[real notch]

some trash vanguard

xd

[azure aurora]

Javelin

[lament lichen]

with triple CV

[real notch]

i don't even wanna test against those meme fleets

[slow totem]

too high of a number should make you suspicious

[azure aurora]

Pss triple btd

[real notch]

i am so close to 200 affection jintsuu

[slow totem]

Double Gold Cata, Gold BTDs, Gold Me155s.

[azure aurora]

Time to search cv purple plate

[real notch]

but it's taking so long

[gritty cove]

My jintsuu isn't even 100 yet, oof

[slow totem]

I don’t even have a Jintsuu.

[real notch]

i'm actually not even close lol

[lament lichen]

enty died at 4:45 ...

[real notch]

i'm at 184

[lament lichen]

what a meme team

[azure aurora]

Jintsuu is great

For the glory of torpedo

[lament lichen]

+12 from that meme team

[coral wren]

Oh, now that i looked into jun stats, maybe not having juneau might also be the case, her aa is quite high. That would help against 3 cvs

[slow totem]

She has quite monstrous AA with AA skill

She’d help even against 3 bb backlines lol

But especially against CVs

[cursive canopy]

good auxiliary for pvp? i have toolbox and anti-torps for frontline

[lament lichen]

do you have beaver badge or pearl tear?

[slow totem]

Generally:
Double Toolbox for DDs
Bulge and Box for CLs

Purple Oil Tank and Gold Cata for CVs

BBs is a lil bit more complicated

[cursive canopy]

i do have both of those

so with hood, do i go double FCR or 1 FCR and autoloader?

[slow totem]

Pearl Tear on whoever ship is likely to die first, you can even put it on Juneau (fite me, metaslaves), for maximum Jesus.

[lament lichen]

no autoloader

[real notch]

ye aure

u can put pearl on juneau

[slow totem]

Autoloader on Hood is fine.

Since the reload has a feedback loop with her skill.

[azure aurora]

Over heal jesus

[slow totem]

For everyone else, either SG Radar or FCR.

[real notch]

i might not recommend it but

it's ok

[strange patrol]

best way to lvl fast/farm exp fast?

[gritty cove]

Still haven't gotten any gold sg radars

[slow totem]

@strange patrol Flagship + Dorm + MVP

[coral wren]

Well, it seems even against non-optimized akaga+e, not having at least one of those two boats is like a shooting in your own foot

[cursive canopy]

double gold cata or 1 gold cata and oil tank?

[slow totem]

Gold cata and oil tank

[real notch]

latter

[slow totem]

Double Gold Cata is PvE only

[real notch]

excited

to set up my 3CV backline

[cursive canopy]

aux gun for bb?

[real notch]

here we go boiz

which BB?

[cursive canopy]

i have 127 on hood

[slow totem]

Twin 127mm or Belgun.

[lament lichen]

double gold cata on all 3

cv

[slow totem]

Maximum big dicc fleet numbers

[coral wren]

post results

[cursive canopy]

and AA gun? and don't say gold AA

[slow totem]

Bofors or Roomba.

[real notch]

rip

[slow totem]

Purple or Gold will do.

[real notch]

no gold AA

use twin 113mm or bofors 40mm

[slow totem]

Hell, even that KMS Brick AA will work

[lament lichen]

the box

[slow totem]

The Box!

[azure aurora]

Brick AA

[slow totem]

It does look like a brick.

[high flume]

Can anybody explayn why Helldiver is better bomber than BTD-1 Destroyer? BTD-1 has more aviation stat and damage

[real notch]

calcs have been done many times

[blazing scroll]

Have you taken a look at the bombs?

[real notch]

it's the bomb loadout

it's something like a 1400dmg vs 940 dmg difference

the 2x 1600lb bombs or whatever BTD has is both inconsistent and weaker in dmg

[high flume]

Is there any easy way to tell which one is the stonger just by looking at their bomb laodout? I seriously had no idea how to calculate the bomb stats

[coral wren]

Oh, btw. Monarch goes better with hms rather than wasd?

[real notch]

ye

monarch is an HMS ship

[azure aurora]

Prob torp daily

[real notch]

@high flume dive bomber is very clear simple

SB2C helldiver

only

[gritty cove]

^

[real notch]

just keep farming them

there will be some interesting alternatives but

[azure aurora]

No no, use btd for big D

[real notch]

that's like 5% of good players lol

[high flume]

tf is big D?

[real notch]

fuck me lol i just opened like 25 boxes

and got nothing

it's been like a month since i got a gold equip

[azure aurora]

Not even crane?

[real notch]

yea not even cranes

[azure aurora]

See, this is why i said don't open your box when disc still on going

Akashi scheme

Btd is to up your fleet powa number

[real notch]

alright i'm done

maxed 3CV backline is 12.5

[coral wren]

[cursive canopy]

so how much will the foxes be when nagato is out?

[real notch]

[cursive canopy]

how good*

[real notch]

very good

top tier

IJN memes

[cursive canopy]

like top top tier?

[real notch]

ye

[lament lichen]

too bad we arent getting nagato first but amagi

[gritty cove]

Can't wait for that shet

[cursive canopy]

foxes get counter by belfast so easy though

[real notch]

nah

u gonna need 3 belfast smokes to counter nagamon twinfox

[gritty cove]

What if you replaced jintsuu with june though

[real notch]

for what, my comp?

[gritty cove]

y

[real notch]

bad idea

[cursive canopy]

so any idea when nagato event will come?

[real notch]

jintsuu is key ship

@cursive canopy 🤷

[lament lichen]

the only thing juneau would do is make you live a bit longer thats it

[coral wren]

not soon, since devs decided to make en events longer than they are on cn/jp

[azure aurora]

Why not Aurora mid ?

Jintsuu pretty tanky

[real notch]

cus u don't need aurora to live long

after vanguard dies she's worthless

jintsuu on the other hand is top kek

[lament lichen]

aurora only needs to live for about 20 secs

[azure aurora]

Jintsuu or sendai ?

For future

[real notch]

oh fuck

i just killed this twinfox fleet so fast i couldn't even test

[modern tree]

Sendai Aurora is pretty mandatory if you wanna delete

[azure aurora]

Why test to foxes

[real notch]

i'll do this test

and try not to fuck up

[lament lichen]

cheese team

[coral wren]

oh shieet

[real notch]

it's not maxed but w.e

[modern tree]

Sendai is also really good at dropping a flare and dying for the cause

[real notch]

close enough

[azure aurora]

Sendai aurora

[lament lichen]

sendai when

[azure aurora]

Next slot ?

[real notch]

yea this guy got ran over

don't think the 20% attack boost means much in this case

[azure aurora]

Ah you killer

Retry again till you lose

[modern tree]

Losing against this is really hard tbh

[real notch]

ye it's ok

he's not using eldridge so he hasn't shot himself in the foot yet

also radar's quite good against twinfox so i think i can get a pretty conservative test result

[modern tree]

Worst results I had were against wasd hood with god aa and hms getting lucky ti snipe a fox super fast

[real notch]

nyaruhodone

[azure aurora]

Sniper with good rng is scary

My hood not even proc once

[modern tree]

Generally backline pressure made me consider running Fortune but I didn't feel like thinking about how to fit her

[real notch]

she wont' fit

[azure aurora]

Is Fortune still legit ?

[real notch]

unless if u kick out belfast

[modern tree]

Yes kicking tank was the issue

[azure aurora]

Fortune skill end whe she sunk right ?

[lament lichen]

yea

[azure aurora]

Nope then

[modern tree]

I ain't confident enough to run Aurora tank even with beaver/toolbox

[real notch]

soo

[modern tree]

[real notch]

i'll do 10 tests against this guy

then i'll go find a maxed fox fleet

[gritty cove]

Should I use box or reload with the sg radar on bb

[azure aurora]

No

[real notch]

you use SG with SG

or SG with HFCR

or SG with badge

[gritty cove]

Double down huh

[real notch]

ye

the added 15 EVA is super valuable

[gritty cove]

Lmao, so 2 fire control radars

gg

[real notch]

as they say

[blazing scroll]

I use SG + FCR, because not enough SG's

[real notch]

the BB with the more SGs win

best to not use FCR with FCR

[gritty cove]

So a purple sg radar and fcr

[odd schooner]

i use double SG golds

on my def fleet

[gritty cove]

I wish I could

Kinda makes me just want to switch to a fox defense

[odd schooner]

my hood is the beaver fcr holder

which is kinda close to having double sg tbh

but because

[real notch]

that's like way better xd

+45 EVA

[odd schooner]

i use akaga too

[real notch]

turns BBs into CL EVAs

[livid fractal]

I wonder what's the meta when amagi comes out

[odd schooner]

so my def is still wasd hood and my atk is akaga hood

[livid fractal]

[odd schooner]

feels weird tbh switch

ppl posting the barrage already

it's not hood tier

[real notch]

my best guess is

twinfox + amagi

hood was always an olld flex into twinfox

it's just there was no IJN alternative

[modern tree]

Wasd amagi is gonna be so tanky

[lament lichen]

whats the frontline for that

jinstuu + 2 more ijn

[odd schooner]

amagi is tankier than hood? or cause of the debuff

[modern tree]

Na

Why play for fast first shot

You don't care enough to gut your front

You can do it with foxes but wasd amagi probably na

[odd schooner]

stall as long as you could to annoy ppl who rushes admiral of the navy rank

[livid fractal]

Bb kaga still triggers CV Akagi skills aviation though

[odd schooner]

[modern tree]

BB Kaga does not look all that impressive

[slow totem]

Bbagana?!

[coral wren]

sg+sg>sg+hfcr?

[slow totem]

The other way around for Offense

[odd schooner]

[slow totem]

Defense, you wanna troll, then double sg

[odd schooner]

[slow totem]

[odd schooner]

i dont think i could stretch that far to using amagi

maybe if i completely remove hood

[modern tree]

Just waiting for bunny dragons retrofits to kill us all

[slow totem]

WASD Hiruu Kai

Death to all ye foxes

[real notch]

Katsushi (south dakota, enterprise, washington | juneau, helena, belfast) 13.1/12.3
current fleet (akagi, kaga, enterprise | belfast, jintsuu, aurora) 12.5/12.8
game 1 - win
game 2 - win
game 3 - win (ent duel)
game 4 - win
game 5 - loss (no E proc)
game 6 - loss
game 7 - win
game 8 - win
game 9 - loss
game 10 - win 
game 11 - loss
game 12 - win
game 13 - win
game 14 - win
game 15 - win

something like a 75% winrate

not that good

he had pretty solid AA though

[odd schooner]

you should probably add some title so we can search these matches

or code

[high flume]

Just played PvP, where everyone died except Juneau

[real notch]

LUL elisio

that's how i feel whenever i see my pearl user die last

[high flume]

cmon fleet, that's not hwo it works

[slow totem]

Jesus is ANGRY

Juneau vs Juneau Red Dead Duel would be hilarious

[real notch]

should i gurren?

i could

[stable panther]

No, go lagann

[real notch]

i have quite a few of these things

[stable panther]

Dong do guren. Guren succs

[high flume]

I set Juneau as 1st Vangaurd, and everyone behind her got wiped first

like wtf

[real notch]

LOL rip

that's not ur fault that's just RNG being mean to u

xd

[slow totem]

Juneau too stronk

Make her weaker

[odd schooner]

you should so we could track it down

[real notch]

hmm i guess i could...

i'll make it real simple

and update it if anyone else has interest

cus idk if people will be interested

[glossy jay]

I hate this bote 🗡

[real notch]

SAMEE

[glossy jay]

she just 1v3 my backline because lucky e pops right before the bolleys hit

[gritty cove]

Enty definitely has the most unfun mechanic

[coral wren]

bunny retrofit to the rescue, she will put that hoe in her place

[modern tree]

you could just make a google doc and link it here or something

also, oh yeah, lets exchange 8 seconds invulnerablity and double strike damage for 15 seconds of invulnerablity and double strike period

[high flume]

My roommate just now: "If they increase Juneau's durability, will that be a buff or a nerf?"

[gritty cove]

Nerf

[real notch]

buff probably at this point

she gets instagimped by desrons

[gritty cove]

Well depends how much, lol

[real notch]

before desron woulda been a nerf

[stable panther]

Desron?

[real notch]

destroyer squadron

[stable panther]

Also, @high flume your roommate is a educated person. Keep people like those close

[real notch]

characterized by torpedo based DDs led by a CL/DD flagship

[stable panther]

So you can shut them up when they snark

Ahhh

The triple torp kiss

[high flume]

WHut, I never fought desron in PvP lol, the only destroyers I usually met are Elridge , Ayanami, or those HMS koffings

[coral wren]

Imagine if devs switched their mascot from e to hiryuu

[real notch]

fight my fleet then

oh @odd schooner i haven't put my test conclusions in

i usually conclude them mentally in my head lol

i wonder if the data is still useful

[odd schooner]

for some ye

they're just lurking tbh

they usually discuss it on local groups

[modern tree]

rude

[slow totem]

Dude needs help.

[coral wren]

they said there is no such thing as whaling in al

[azure aurora]

I rate that fleet 9/10

That Hermes such bummer

[slow totem]

20/20 Years in Just a Room

[azure aurora]

Langley

[real notch]

alright

i'm done this fukin "guide"

@odd schooner

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BuOeLLjXKP-OGhXlN8V5yT7_19tgmvzHKwSU7y2O_KM/edit?usp=sharing

lemme know if i should add anything

[azure aurora]

All wasd with enty ?

[real notch]

i did wasd + hood testing around the beginning of october (5-15)

and determined that in the "wasd meta", flex hood is objectively worse than flex enterprise

hood just doesn't have the vanguard clear potential

[azure aurora]

So better foxes with hood or enty ?

[real notch]

i will let you know

check latest (end of doc) test for twinfox + ent testing

i have a couple twinfox + hood tests in there

[slow totem]

I won’t use WASD Enty if the enemy has Enty too

Red Dead Duels

[high flume]

Enty vs enty be like

[real notch]

[slow totem]

Nooooope!

[azure aurora]

Throw that death match away

50/50

All my lose is because im too confident with my e

[slow totem]

[real notch]

hory shit

3CV is so much fun

[azure aurora]

Bb kaga, amagi and akagi

Hmm nope

Not as good as wasde

[slow totem]

BBakaga is the weak link there

[azure aurora]

But need her for akagi skill

Well just amakaga then

And add 1 jintsuu

[real notch]

ok my 3CV test against hakaga was just facestomp 10 games in a row

ZzMagneszZ (hood, akagi, kaga | belfast, ayanami, helena) 12.9/12.3
current fleet (akagi, kaga, enterprise | belfast, jintsuu, aurora) 12.5/12.8

Foxes vs Foxes

game 1 - win
Game 2 - win
Game 3 - win
Game 4 - win
Game 5 - win
Game 6 - win
Game 7 - win
Game 8 - win
Game 9 - win
Game 10 - win

wasn't even close

even when all my opening torps missed, and my enterprise didn't proc lucky E

i still smashed him

this fleet is strong as fuck

can basically confirm it

[azure aurora]

Now try hood akaga vs enemy eakaga

Oh

Don't mind

[slow totem]

@real notch need dedicated AA. And not a lot of people put dedicated AA defense fleets

It makes sense

[real notch]

sirrequiem pvp tierlist 1.0.4

Tier 0:
Wasd + Ent

Tier 1:
Akaga + Ent (with desron)
Wasd + Hood
HMS

Tier 2: 
Wasd + Illustrious (with eldridge)
Akaga + Hood

Tier 3:
Ent + Illustrious + Hood
HMS with Illustrious

just for future reference

@slow totem you mean like cleveland, juneau, norcal?

[modern tree]

I faced one norcal with akaga enterprise and it was a faceroll

[slow totem]

Also

[modern tree]

norcal doesnt seem to do much of anything, just sits there, shoots some guns, dies

[slow totem]

I usually ram Akaga E with WASD NoCal Juneau Fortune vanguard and consistently wins

[real notch]

yea the kingpin in this fleet isn't actually the 3CV

[slow totem]

The point is to make your vanguard die shortly after 1st air strike

[real notch]

it's the desron

opening desron torps + 2000lb bombs will oneshot any AA-oriented vanguard

[slow totem]

Tank 1st airstrike, heal up with Juneau, let their vanguard come to be 127 shredded, then unleash BB hell

The 3 CVs will melt like butter

Iron Butt is just for failsafe if RNG is being shit

[real notch]

i can maybe do this test

this is like

ultimate AA

lol

less the ayaya

[slow totem]

Yes, do WASD NoCal Juneau Fortune Belfast

[real notch]

it's pretty anti-fox

[slow totem]

Don’t mirror lol

[azure aurora]

Wasd lusty top tier ?

[slow totem]

Lusty, so no...

[real notch]

i put her tier 2

i had this test just earlier

Katsushi (south dakota, enterprise, washington | juneau, helena, belfast) 13.1/12.3
current fleet (akagi, kaga, enterprise | belfast, jintsuu, aurora) 12.5/12.8

Foxes vs WASD

game 1 - win
game 2 - win
game 3 - win (ent duel)
game 4 - win
game 5 - loss (no E proc)
game 6 - loss
game 7 - win
game 8 - win
game 9 - loss
game 10 - win 
game 11 - loss
game 12 - win
game 13 - win
game 14 - win
game 15 - win

the results were much less convincing

norcal could be an option but it's not that useful reset testing against that team

fortune is good against fox strikes but will instadie to desron torps

[slow totem]

But it’s fuuun!

[real notch]

likewise with juneau

[slow totem]

Yes

[azure aurora]

[slow totem]

You want vanguard to die fast

To force BBs to shoot at backlines 100%

[real notch]

probably the only AA oriented vanguard would be cleveland

[slow totem]

It’s a legit strategy I got from IriyaBaker

[real notch]

ye it is a legit strat

[azure aurora]

Juneau

Bye

[real notch]

but if you lose your vanguard

against 3CV

[azure aurora]

You owaridead

[real notch]

you risk eating full touchdown lucky E

yea

lol

[slow totem]

3 CVs will die like paper against WASD NoCar and Iron Bottom guarantees buying time

Done it again and again and it works

As soon as vanguard dies after 1st Foxes and lucky E, it’s only a matter of time, quickly so.

3 CVs are strong but not undefeatable. That’s the impression I’m getting.

[real notch]

yea ofc

any fleet can be wrecked if you completely itemize against it

[lone pendant]

amagi hood enty

[real notch]

but that's not the purpose of the tests

[lone pendant]

[slow totem]

[azure aurora]

Need 3 sakura Vanguard right ?

Or just ignore fast strike

[slow totem]

Don’t have to if you don’t want quick first salvo yea

What’s important are her first two skills

[azure aurora]

Will research it later

If amagi come

Don't know should destron or not

2 bc

[real notch]

desron op

even without sendai

with sendai, say goodbye to all your variety of viable vgs