pvp

[lofty smelt]

Helena isn't cool enough for the torp squad

[trail hollow]

Im too lazy to pvp atm, but will probably do it again once gold 381 releases

[dull elm]

U expected cassin? But wait

[foggy token]

@stable panther south dakota should be middle

[dull elm]

depends on enemy team positioning

middle not always best

[subtle whale]

amagi + bb kaga + akagi

wonder how good that is

or just amagi akaga

[coral wren]

I hope wasd amagi won’t be a thing

[subtle whale]

you have a few weeks before people use amago, cus she needs billion of books

[coral wren]

I really don’t want to level boat i don’t like... i will prob just switch for hms

Kotawa shoujo like boat my ass

[subtle whale]

only missing from hms backline is york

[coral wren]

Yeah, I really hoped we would be getting crown event and not this..

[subtle whale]

this stage have farmable bofor

[silver folio]

Okay I have this idea for a PVP Fleet

goal is to fire all barrage at 20s mark with helena buff think that should wipe everything

[lime rivet]

That is a terrible fleet to run for pvp

[urban coral]

Pretty gimmicky and will probably die to akaga

[lime rivet]

For 1, 20s is when Hood (and warspite) fires, which will likely instantly kill one monitor before they fire

[silver folio]

my opponent rn is pretty strong so im thinking of ideas

well nelson would tank the hood barrage

[lime rivet]

2. Akaga will wipe your backline when they launch, because they will survive your infinite darkness

Hood is rarely ever in the centre. HMS fleets run Hoods on the sidesnto sync targets with warspite

[silver folio]

I Dont know what my opponents run on offense but his hood is in the center thats why i usednelson

[urban coral]

Hmmmm

Try it

[silver folio]

imma try it out will probably get smoked though lol

[lime rivet]

And the other main hard to kill fleet would be a sodak/wash and that basically laughs off infinite darkness

[urban coral]

^

[lime rivet]

Also, your frontline is going to die so fast

[urban coral]

But his opponent isn't using any of those comps

[silver folio]

yeah most my opoonet have been easy but this guy...

he married his fleet

[subtle whale]

if you dont suceed

[lime rivet]

They're still gonna tank infinite darkness and their frontline will murder yours...probably after your backline gets wiped

[subtle whale]

throw akaga at em

[lime rivet]

Like

If you want ideas

The bestnidea you can have is to take every ship you're fielding out except Helena and start from scratch

[silver folio]

even ayanami? =(

[lime rivet]

Or just reset

Even Ayanami.

Unless you somehow have a leveled Jintsuu and/or Fubuki to run together with her

[urban coral]

Yeah, just reset when you think you're gonna lose, just try for now

[silver folio]

No I dont have either of those, W10 too stronk

[lime rivet]

Because, straight talk time, that pvp fleet is bad and the only reason you've been winningnis because you're either hitting weaker fleets, meme fleets, or from your 20% attacker bonus

[lofty smelt]

Best vanguard don't @ me

[urban coral]

It is bad, but it's just a temporary pvp fleet

[lime rivet]

several people are typing

@urban coral i can basically predict how every single outcome of that battle will run. He'll reset until infinite darkness procs...but the enemy enty will survive and wipe his backline, and if it doesn't, lusty's launch will take it out with plane kamikaze damage

Lucky E doesn't even need to proc

[urban coral]

I mean, I've had those kinds of pvp fights back then where I had level 98-100 erebus, enty and long island and an overly defensive frontline

[lime rivet]

enty

Enough said

[urban coral]

Lmao

[dull elm]

♿ early server meta time u can get away with almost everything

[urban coral]

^

[lofty smelt]

Real question though, I've only taken pvp seriously a couple seasons for AotN/Bulins, does it always get this slow around 1800/1900? I have so many extra matches and can't burn easily because nobody else has high enough score.

Lexington if server matters

[dull elm]

yeah u will betting only 11 points max at higher ranks

[azure aurora]

Yeah this season

[lofty smelt]

Not like that Gyndur, it just feels like nobody is playing or people last matches or something lmao.

Is it slower than normal Fish?

[subtle whale]

is it possible to get the highest admiral rank

[dull elm]

oh i see

[subtle whale]

256 points just to get there seems alot @-@

[azure aurora]

Only Lexington like that

[dull elm]

more people will be sandbagging aka doing their pvp slower is that what you meant @lofty smelt

[azure aurora]

Avrora still try hard like always

[subtle whale]

yeah avrora is try hard

[lofty smelt]

Lexington boring this season

[dull elm]

Virginity levels over 9000

[subtle whale]

eldridge belfast jeanue vanguard everywhere

[lofty smelt]

Just be cool and use fun fleets for defense

[subtle whale]

fun is when my enemy suffers from rng

[lime rivet]

Early server meta, a solo enty and a defensive frontline (even a solo leveled belfast) can wipe most fleets easily

[subtle whale]

[lofty smelt]

Enty can solo most fleets let's be real

[subtle whale]

yeah she have mc power

[azure aurora]

Enty 70% feel like 100%
Hood 70% feel like 10%

[subtle whale]

no

my enty is 10%

[lofty smelt]

Same

[azure aurora]

[subtle whale]

enemy enty is 100%

[lofty smelt]

Thankfully T o r p S q u a d and wasd take care of the rest

[subtle whale]

torp squad is jintsuu aurora aya?

or jintsu belfast aya

[lofty smelt]

First one

[azure aurora]

With aurora

[lofty smelt]

I won't use anything other than those 3 because I like the ships lol

[subtle whale]

i like jintsu and aurora

dont really like ayanami

gameplay wise i like nuking with her

[azure aurora]

Jintsuu aurora and juneau pretty good too

[subtle whale]

yeah i heard that a thing

do you give the pearl to jintsuu and beaver on aurora?

[azure aurora]

Yes

Need aurora life as long as possible

That -%eva cl and dd is cheat

Especially since en still lv 100

[subtle whale]

level 120 please and iris libre event

i want that dd gun

[lofty smelt]

What dd gun huh

[azure aurora]

Cl ?

[subtle whale]

138.6mm gun

Single 138.6mm (Mle 1929)

apprently its farmable in the iris libre event

[lofty smelt]

Is it even good on DDs though

I know secondary for CL/BB it's good but

idk anything about it really

[azure aurora]

Damage type dd ?

[subtle whale]

saw in a bunch of jp cn stuff that fp dd uses it

[azure aurora]

https://azurlane.koumakan.jp/Single_138.6mm_(Mle_1929)#Type 2

That one ?

[subtle whale]

ye

[azure aurora]

I mostly use 100mm

But that gun look great with laffey

[subtle whale]

everythins is great on laffet

i just the bluegun on her, she shoot like sanic

was fun to watch

[lofty smelt]

Bunny of the North Star tustronk

[lime rivet]

bunnypunch

[subtle whale]

im mostly excited waiting for best girl nagato, pr and 120

[azure aurora]

Instead nakaga we got bakaga

[lime rivet]

Man of fukken culture

[azure aurora]

Amazing

Raising bh to lv 95

Should just remove kaga bh and avrora

[lime rivet]

Avrora meant his frontline died super fast, sadly

Still, I salute that dedication

[lofty smelt]

That's a nice white hair meme team

1 match left but rank 5 and no refreshes

[modern tree]

Time to tank that 8

[lofty smelt]

Do it

I forget to do matches so often, idk how people sandbag properly

[slow totem]

@lofty smelt

@ power

But then again, no comp is Omnipotent, some are really strong, but not almighty. Fortunately.

[silver folio]

im ganna do it

wish me luck

[lofty smelt]

Hey look, it's my future team except Amagi > Hood

[slow totem]

Ganbaru.

[lofty smelt]

Also I don't have swag for gems

[slow totem]

@silver folio I take it back, u gonna die.

[silver folio]

NO

I NEED YOUR POWER

[slow totem]

[lofty smelt]

I like regardless of whatever comp I see these days

[slow totem]

Hey, my ‘defense’ fleet is

[lofty smelt]

I see a heavy cruiser and think ez win

[slow totem]

Warspite, Enty, Yamashiro, Eldridge, Nicholas, and

All wearing the Santa outfit

“Serious PvPer” btw.

[lofty smelt]

I always do meme defense because why not. Everyone can beat me with enough resets

[slow totem]

[lofty smelt]

I have my offense set there though to flex Jintsuu/Aurora atm though

[slow totem]

Next up, Kimono fleet, but they aren’t available yet, feelsfkingbadman

[silver folio]

i died

lucky E destroyed my backline

[lofty smelt]

Did you exit before losing?

[slow totem]

Apparently he didn’t

Since Lucky E destroyed his backline

Oof

[lofty smelt]

F

[silver folio]

oh i did exit, cuz im gonna

try again

[slow totem]

.....

Here, take my power.

[lofty smelt]

Tbh I don't see you beating that backline with yours

[slow totem]

☀

[silver folio]

maybe i should take out nelson

[lofty smelt]

Vanguard doesn't matter much, but oof that backline

[slow totem]

Hey, with enough resets, eventually...

Someday...

[lofty smelt]

You are right. Just might be a couple days

[silver folio]

i'l put in queen e

to buff monitors

[modern tree]

And I thought flights at top 100 are exciting

[slow totem]

Oof

@modern tree It’s like Dota 2, man, the higher the tryhard pyramid goes, the more boring the matchups are

Applies to LoL, Overwatch, Rainbow 6, CS:GO, whatever too

[lofty smelt]

That's why you use waifus and win anyway

[slow totem]

🎩 👌

[silver folio]

theres like

nothing to do

once u reach gensui

might as well monitor meme

[lofty smelt]

ngl though, the torp squad melting eldridge immediately makes for so many less resets

So nice

[slow totem]

But we haven’t reached gensui yet thoooo

[lofty smelt]

^

[silver folio]

[lofty smelt]

I need a new gensui profile pic with Aurora

[slow totem]

Enty living in the future

[lofty smelt]

[slow totem]

Alterprise

EMIYAprise

[silver folio]

i might ned

to change front line

to prevent monitor from dying in one air strike

i gues fortune

[slow totem]

i’d say it won’t help but I’ll keep an open mind

[lofty smelt]

[silver folio]

round 2

EZ

[slow totem]

THE FKING MADLAD ACTUALLY DID IT!

☀

[azure aurora]

As long it works

[slow totem]

and Purple Heart

Ultimate Madd Respecc

[azure aurora]

And lv 95 terror

[silver folio]

damage screen lol

helena ironically the worst performer

[slow totem]

She makes others do the damage

But still

Damn

Monitors + Purple Heart

[azure aurora]

Qe buff effect monitor barrage ?

[slow totem]

Yes

[silver folio]

yeah QE to make them live imo.. otherwise too squishy

evasion + firepower

[slow totem]

Damn

[real notch]

i am so confused

i'm losing to some 3 CV comp

like 20% winrate

[slow totem]

Shitty RNG?

[real notch]

well i ran 6 tests

so shouldn't be

[silver folio]

3CV comp what

[real notch]

i accidentally killed him on test 6

tho

[silver folio]

we back to beta comps? O_O

[real notch]

uhhhh

it was some fucking scrub ass

13.1k unoptimized ent + twinfox comp

with fucking juneau aurora belfast

monka fucking S man

this was my comp

the only thing i can think of is defender advantage with airstrike - earlier torp drop location

[silver folio]

i uploaded the monitor video, we both had decent RNG i guess

[real notch]

the cuda torps hit my vanguard everytime

[silver folio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1nDkb2L5UQ&feature=youtu.be
i had absolutely shitty opening torp RNG

[real notch]

it's making me big thonk my plans

[silver folio]

if u have

aurora

its a fat advantage

so im not surprised he blew you out

considering CAs are still shit

CA counter aurora after all

[real notch]

wait CA?

[silver folio]

CAs counter aurora in asian meta

[slow totem]

Yeah, I ran Minnie and it worked against Aurora comps LOL

[silver folio]

but we're at 100 cap

[slow totem]

Try it

I was surprised too

Minny at front

[real notch]

i have no CAs

he had no CAs

[silver folio]

?

ofc u wouldnt run CA

they're bad atm

lol

im saying at 120 cap CA is the counter to aurora

[slow totem]

I ran Minnie (CA) against Aurora

It works

[real notch]

but how's that related to him beating me

[slow totem]

[silver folio]

because he has aurora and u have all LC/Destros

ofc ur gonna get melted

[slow totem]

Sirreq has aurora too

[silver folio]

yeah

[slow totem]

[real notch]

i have aurora and he has all LC/destroyers

LOL

[silver folio]

but hes asking why hes being melted by foxes

foxes and aurora tends to do that

[real notch]

no, that's the expected conclusion

[silver folio]

im not surprised

[real notch]

but i'm asking why i am losing

[silver folio]

foxes+aurora

i literally told u

[real notch]

vanguard melting to foxes is an expected outcome with aurora

but melted vanguard = / = loss

[silver folio]

after ur vanguard melts u'll die to the dive damage

u have no AA guns left

thats 3 ships to soak all that plane dmg

[real notch]

no, that's not typically what happens

[silver folio]

without aurora u'll have some ships left to tank airstrike

[slow totem]

What’s weird is, WASD usually don’t care if front dies, since they’ll melt the enemy front too

[real notch]

what happens is wasd backline will shred vanguard with 127s

[silver folio]

except his front melted in 2s from aurora

[real notch]

then shell the fuck out of foxes because they have no HP

[silver folio]

he melts yours way faster and his vg already got free damge on your wasd

so by t he time u finish his off

your ships are taken a lot of damage

back in the day foxes couldnt finish a VG off in one strike that easily

[real notch]

[slow totem]

WASD is built to negate damage from each other tho.

Maybe Sirreq needs Juneau.

[real notch]

i tested with twinfox + aurora

like

literally 1.5-2 weeks ago

i don't rly remember

and biggest loss condition

[silver folio]

u can literally see it in your matches

[real notch]

wait lemme check

[silver folio]

foxes blow up your VG, their shit spills oiver and deals some torp/gun damage to you

[real notch]

no

actually

[silver folio]

then ur wasd eats a full enty to the face

[real notch]

yea

i think it's the ent

not the foxes

[silver folio]

? ent is shit without the foxes

that vg needs to die

otherwise a lot of wasted divebombs on the vg

[real notch]

nah

ent is much more valuable than hood

[slow totem]

Only with Eldridge around

[real notch]

assuming there's an ent on enemy team

[silver folio]

im saying in HIS comp that u were facing, the foxes enabled that ent to do damage

[real notch]

ye

[slow totem]

Oh yeah, you also have no Belfast

[silver folio]

because if ur VG wasnt dead thered be a lot of missed damage

[slow totem]

Now the pieces are coming together

[real notch]

foxes melting vanguard is expected outcome, that doesn't mean insta lose

[silver folio]

the full ent damage and subsequent wave of foxes guarantees it

[real notch]

i think the loss was coming from touchdown on ent

[silver folio]

i mean i always believe foxes+ent is better on def than foxes hood if u were gonna use it

because no idiot is going to place their ent across hood

[real notch]

nah but

his ent twinfox was like

13.1k

that's really bad

[silver folio]

yeah but full damage ent tho

[real notch]

and his vanguard was 12k

also really bad

[silver folio]

tbh

[real notch]

also he had juneau

really bad

[silver folio]

juneau is prob why u lost some of the exchanges too tbh

if u had juneau u might have won

cuz then ur wasd would be healed

[real notch]

i don't think so

juneau would overheal guaranteed

[slow totem]

I bet Aurora and Jintsuu made your lost there

Not WASDEnty

[real notch]

she dies around 3:43.5-3:44.0

foxes touchdown at 3:44.5

because of the mechanic of how 2000lb bombs drop before touchdown

[silver folio]

the ent killed u for sure

ppl underestimate the damage of full power ent

against a backline with no def

cuz all the dive bombs are 100% hitting

[real notch]

i think it's the lack of belfast

probably

[silver folio]

no belfast against fox was a mistake

[real notch]

but then again

hmm

maybe i'll swap out ent

[silver folio]

i wouldnt

ent is better than hood

wasd hood sucks imo

[real notch]

ent doesn't get 2nd airstrike against foxes

[slow totem]

Don’t overestimate Jintsuu’s strength either

[real notch]

she'll just die to distributed touchdown dmg

by 4:24

[silver folio]

ehhhh

i think it really depends on the torp rng and placement

sometimes ryuuseis are a bitch

[real notch]

atm nobody runs ryuusei on EN

[silver folio]

wat

[slow totem]

Also, why do you insist on keeping Jintsuu around?

[real notch]

it's just a bad option

[slow totem]

[silver folio]

ryuuseis are good

🤔

cudas suck

[real notch]

yea they're good

cudas are better

in EN

[silver folio]

i have gold cudas i'll trade them for ryuuseis anyday

cudas can whiff entirely

[slow totem]

And Jintsuu in vanguard?

[real notch]

are we confusing names here LOL

ryuusei is the one

that whiffs completely

LOL

[silver folio]

that t racks

nono

ryuusei tracks to the backline

if u miss the frontline u have a decent chance of going to the backline

[real notch]

i'd say the majority of the time

they don't track backline

[silver folio]

versus barracudas just going down a verticle line

and missing 70% of the shit

[real notch]

they're aim vanguard and hit nothing

also

shittier launch speed

[silver folio]

ryuuseis are also WAAAY better after VG dies

[real notch]

shittier HP

[silver folio]

because its guarnateed to hit

[real notch]

shittier touchdown dmg

[azure aurora]

Better miss 70% than 100%

[silver folio]

ryuusei never misses 100% unless u have awful awful rng

[real notch]

ryuusei is just worse than cuda in every single stat matchup

[slow totem]

Welp, still curious about Jintsuu tho.

[real notch]

only case where ryuusei is good

is if your foxes are strong enough to 1shot vanguard even without torps

which doesn't happen until sendai + aurora + nagato

otherwise

[silver folio]

if u go barracuda u probably arent going to oneshot their rvanguard

ryuusei lets u instantly drops on their vg

[real notch]

no, if ryuusei ever aims at vanguard

they will miss 99% of the time

lmao

unless if the vanguard isn't moving

[silver folio]

they have a decent chance of missing but so do barracudas

[azure aurora]

[silver folio]

i use both in my fleets

[real notch]

cudas do miss sometimes yes but they win in the stat matchup

[slow totem]

Damn, the topic went off the rails

And I also got into the 3rd wheel role

[azure aurora]

Nope, still pvp topic

[silver folio]

but ur assuming that most of the cudas hit when they miss more in general

[real notch]

not really

i go in assuming cudas will hit maybe 30-50% of the torps

which is fine

[slow totem]

Not channel topic, but the previous comp vs topic

[real notch]

because cudas have 445 touchdown dmg

and have big HP pools

and has like a 1 second lead on launchtime

[silver folio]

u run wasd+e?

[real notch]

yee currently

[silver folio]

thats diff from foxes

[real notch]

but i might try out twinfox + ent

[silver folio]

u dont double cuda on foxes

[modern tree]

Converging torps hit like 80% of time on attack cuz they're dropped on top of the vanguard. I am playing with that right now

[real notch]

i've always double cuda'ed on foxes

[silver folio]

^ what daxam said

they hit super consistently

[modern tree]

Defense it's probably way worse

[silver folio]

on def they're worse

but i dont give a shit about def tbh

[real notch]

yea that is true

torps drop late on offense

[silver folio]

double cuda on fox is really bad because ur not deleting anything

[real notch]

cus of the positioning advantage defense fleets get

[silver folio]

what happens is u get a bunch of low hp VG ships which is not good

since they'll fire off their torps

[real notch]

alright so my perspective is

[slow totem]

My Jintsuu question got ignored feelsbadman.

I honestly think Sirreq’s vanguard was the problem, not the Backline.

[real notch]

if you can't force sodak to proc iron on first airstrike

then don't run ryuusei

if you can force iron by 4:47

then run ryuusei

it's simple

[silver folio]

ryuusei isnt to force sodak to proc iron though, its more for deleting the VG

[azure aurora]

Jintsuu question? Sorry we ryuusei vs barra rn

[silver folio]

ur almost never going to force sodak to proc iron on foxes tbh, her hp is too high

[slow totem]

But that’s not the core of the problem why he lost

I honestly think it’s the Jintsuu

But they ended up going Cuda vs Ryuusei

[real notch]

i'm not sure about that, need to check on some more CN/JP vids but

[silver folio]

uhh

we're on EN

we dont have nagato thats diff

[real notch]

exactly my point

if you don't have the means to 1 shot sodak

and force iron

then don't run ryuusei

that's my perspective

[silver folio]

but ryuuseis are for oneshotting the vanguard, not for sodak

[slow totem]

Fk it, imma tag

[silver folio]

the whole point is to drop the torps on their vg and blow it up

[azure aurora]

Is jintsuu really viable for pvp rn ?

[silver folio]

cudas cant do that because they dont converge and you only hit a portion in best case scenario

[real notch]

ok

[slow totem]

@real notch Why the insistence to run Jintsuu and Aurora?

[real notch]

in my perspective, ryuusei misses way too often

so no i don't believe ryuusei deletes vanguard

[slow totem]

I honestly think that’s your problem why you lost instead of the backline.

[real notch]

i believe ryuusei hits nothing 60-70% of the time

[silver folio]

wat

[real notch]

and is a waste of an equipment slot

[silver folio]

60-70% is too high bro

[slow totem]

Or the whole Ryuusei vs Cuda thing

[real notch]

uhh @slow totem

[silver folio]

it doesnt miss that much

[real notch]

basically i'm theorycrafting

i'm just experimenting with new ships that have success in CN/JP and finding out which works best in EN

[slow totem]

Yeah, but aren’t you looking for an answer why you lost?

It’s not the planes

But your vanguard of Jintsuu

[modern tree]

I played hakaga whole day yesterday and the comp is alright but the issue is getting shelled to shit so if Enterprise can tank at least some of the shots with e and emergency wipe front if foxes left someone alive, then it's probably better results

[silver folio]

also sometimes when it misses the vg it can still hit the backline
the only bad case scenario is when it reverses and tries to hit the VG from the back, THATS when cuda is better

[real notch]

yeah currently my vanguard is geared towards the more-common wasd EN meta

there's not enough foxes to warrant a belfast imo

i can flex out belfast for other options

it's just i think

[silver folio]

SO BASICALLY if u want expected damage, you can run barracuda
but ryuuseis will do more on average

[slow totem]

Yeah, that’s what I meant the topic going off the rails, the topic of “Why did my comp lost?”

[real notch]

i'm starting to see some value in twinfox + ent

[slow totem]

But if that’s answered

Ryuusei vs Cuda away lol

[real notch]

so currently, i think my jintsuu is being gimped a bit

[silver folio]

ayanami is shit anyway

[modern tree]

Also Belfast/Jintsuu Juneau Aurora is probably best fox front

[silver folio]

who do u even run with jintsuu

[real notch]

yea i believe ayanami is shit

imo

[slow totem]

The Jintsuu (and probably Aurora) contributed little in that comp.

[silver folio]

ayanami is some RNG bullshit u dont need in your matches

[slow totem]

Since you are facing Foxes that wiped those two anyway

[silver folio]

u shouldnt need to roll the dice if u dont need to

[real notch]

not to mention my jintsuu is not 200 affection, and level 10 inyielding

in my theorycrafting, she's sort of forced to tank slot

which works really well against wasd fleets

[slow totem]

200 Affection won’t make you suddenly win the match.

[real notch]

i think i'm looking at the optimal wasd vs wasd fleet here

[silver folio]

imo i was thinking eldridge is pretty good against wasd fleets if they dont have aurora

[slow totem]

The 6% boost to base stats is terribly overhyped

[modern tree]

Because after you wipe front your vanguard is just there to deliver torps and Juneau dying to aux bb is what makes you trade well against getting shelled to shit

[real notch]

flexing in eldridge was a good idea

but the problem is

[silver folio]

fucking wasd fleets shred ur vg and eldrdige is a godesendi n that case

[real notch]

finding the right balance between itemizing against wasd and itemizing against foxes

[silver folio]

uhhhh

[real notch]

to do that you need to look at the current state of EN

[silver folio]

i just swap out ships tbh

[slow totem]

They both work differently

[silver folio]

i dont care about def so i only swap ships on offense

[slow totem]

There’s no “Elixir” comp

[silver folio]

and that takes a few seconds

[real notch]

yea there's no magical comps

there's no easy fix

[silver folio]

u shouldnt be using one comp for everything anyway

[real notch]

it's just pure pure statistical advantage

[silver folio]

well, foxes is go od against 90% of shit

so i go with that until i r each a wall

then i swap out if needed

[real notch]

but i try to optimize my defense fleet

to make it as difficult to beat as possible so

[silver folio]

i dunno why u even d othat

seems like a waste of time

[real notch]

well

[silver folio]

i actually want to t ank my rating anyway

[real notch]

the only time where my opponents ever interact with me is in a defense fleet

the only time i actually "beat" someone is when they realize it

so defense fleet i go

ofc i don't ignore offense, i just take both into consideration

[silver folio]

i dunno, seems like ur spending a lot of time on it
i can only help on offense lol since defense is pretty much a joke (imo)

[modern tree]

Ijn frontline is wasteful for wasd Amagi, shooting fast is not worth running bad ships, you get to be tanky regardless

[slow totem]

Well, I can rest east knowing the “Why did Sirreq’s WASDE Jintsuu comp lost against Aurora Twinfox Enty?” Is reliably answered.

[real notch]

yea right now PVP is pretty fun

[slow totem]

Now, I’ll just eat my popcorn

[real notch]

lots of testing and viable comps

i think jintsuu is maybe a little overrated atm

[lime rivet]

Please

[real notch]

because of the overwhelming population of wasd fleets

where even if you instatorp a vanguard

[silver folio]

jintsuu not overrated, only in EN meta she is

[real notch]

you just get shredded by 127s

[slow totem]

Her statline is abysmal, her skills are amazing, not a new thing.

[silver folio]

EN meta has some awful torp boats

[real notch]

yea i am talking about EN meta

[silver folio]

fucking ayanami

lol

[lime rivet]

The optimal defense fleet isn't one to beat an attacker. It's never going to be able to do that because 20% attacker bonus

[slow totem]

And infinite resets

[lime rivet]

The optimal defense fleet is one to piss off and waste as much as your attacker's time as possible

[silver folio]

wait until ykkz @real notch

[lime rivet]

Therefore my defense fleet is optimal

[slow totem]

WASD Hiryuu intensifies

[real notch]

LMAO

[silver folio]

i dont think its wasd hiryuu

[real notch]

yea ok i accept that train of thought

i still disagree tho

[azure aurora]

Yes hiryuu

[silver folio]

i think its helena+enty to force a reset tbh

if u can force a reset thats the best case

[real notch]

wasting time is not as decisive as actually forcing a reset

[slow totem]

It’s WASD Hiryuu, man

[lime rivet]

WASD Hiryuu, Juneau/Belfast/Eldridge

[slow totem]

[real notch]

but i dig it

[lime rivet]

Belfast swappable for Cygnet Kai, but that runs into torp deletion issues and can't defend against foxes

[silver folio]

id rather helena+enty but i can understand hiryuu on gensui

its just that hiryuu is guaranteed win so opp do esnt even need to bother looking

[azure aurora]

Yorktown,enty,and hiryuu

[silver folio]

thats garbage

not tanky

u'll die in 2s

[azure aurora]

Stall time

[silver folio]

it wont stall because those ships are squishy

[real notch]

because ok think about it

[modern tree]

Hiryuu kai is going to be the scariest shit

[real notch]

when the guy does PVP

[lime rivet]

Vengeance can't really stall, unfortunately

Oh my god yes

[real notch]

he might just leave his phone unattended

[lime rivet]

Hiryuu kai I forgot

[real notch]

he doesn't even notice the time you made him waste

[silver folio]

@real notch exactly thats why u throw the helan enty

[real notch]

in that situation

[slow totem]

EN Meta, guys

[real notch]

you give him the fat

[silver folio]

he comes b ack, w tf i lost

[real notch]

loss

yeah

that's the best part

[slow totem]

Hiryuu Kai ain’t here yet

[lime rivet]

I gotta prep fornit

[silver folio]

if he loses 10-11 score thats >>>>>>>>>> whatever time he wasted

[lime rivet]

For the nost fucking irritating fleet ever

[real notch]

radar E threw me off the first few times so i learned to pay attention

to those fleets

[slow totem]

But sirreq doesn’t like that kind of “suprise wins” tho

[azure aurora]

Hiryuu, enty, need one more ship

[slow totem]

As a defense fleet

[real notch]

well

[azure aurora]

Lusty ?

[slow totem]

@azure aurora WASD Enty

[silver folio]

i acutally wouldnt mind h iryuu fleets since those are so chill and im guarnateed a win

[slow totem]

Or WASD Hiryuu

[lime rivet]

Lusty, probably.

[slow totem]

WASD is needed

[real notch]

yea like

RNG wins i'm not a big fan of

[lime rivet]

But WASD is so much better because of Sodak's stall

[real notch]

i usually dump proc for consistency

(fuck you helena)

[silver folio]

@real notch on def the only arugment to be made for procs since u NEED it to be the attackers advantage

[slow totem]

WASD Hiryuu is as consistent RNG-free you’ll have

[azure aurora]

Fuck you too hood

[real notch]

yea i think a while ago

[silver folio]

so best to just stack up on those cheesy procs on def

[real notch]

i concluded that helena was T0 defense fleet vanguard

[silver folio]

imo thats why ayanami can work sometimes on defense lmfao

[real notch]

and everyone just started arguing with me lol

that was like first 2 seasons of FW

[silver folio]

ayanami jintsuu is better on defense imo

ive seen some stupid torping shit happen

[real notch]

20% attack bonus? bitch please

[azure aurora]

Eldridge and belfast is

[real notch]

40% attack bonus

[modern tree]

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av39630419

reminder this exists

[silver folio]

eldridge isnt g reat on def

dies to foxes aurora to o easily

[real notch]

who the fuck lol

holy moly

level 120 already

[azure aurora]

How many Aurora rn in en ?

[real notch]

^ SO LITTLE

[lime rivet]

Very few

[real notch]

i'm actually kinda mad at how slow people are using jintsuu aurora

[lime rivet]

My aurora is still level 94, sadly

[azure aurora]

[real notch]

partly why my testing is taking so damn long

[silver folio]

too little aurora atm but dont use eldridge anyway on def

[lime rivet]

And i haven't bothered farming jintsuu yet

[real notch]

cus nobody's using new ships

[azure aurora]

Still leveling Jintsuu skill

[silver folio]

eldridge only good against enty imo

[azure aurora]

And 90% wasd using enty

[silver folio]

putting on def is pointless anyway since they can choose to not use enty

[slow totem]

Eldridge is good against:
-Any CVs that aren’t Foxes
-Any BBs that don’t use the Twin 410 mm

[silver folio]

any cv that arent foxes 🤔

[real notch]

oh hey

[silver folio]

any bbs that dont use twin 410mm 🤔

[slow totem]

Yes. :D

[real notch]

@modern tree

this is a good song

what song is this LOL

[slow totem]

Yeep

[real notch]

it's aimer something

[silver folio]

so basically never

[slow totem]

Foxes and 410mms rekts Eldridge

[azure aurora]

410 less than 20s

[silver folio]

yeah and that was my point

[slow totem]

Never wut, reminder that we, the people here talking atm are a minority compared to the players out there.

[azure aurora]

Some weird wasd using 406

[slow totem]

I see more 406s and Enties than Foxes and 410s

[silver folio]

the majority of the players dont set proper fleets anyway

[azure aurora]

Yep

[silver folio]

so eldrdige or not eldridge woudlnt matter

[real notch]

what the fuck lol hiryuu kai is broken as fuck @modern tree

[modern tree]

yes

[real notch]

literally just 1v4'ed

[slow totem]

But the fact still stands, those are the things Eldridge is good against

[modern tree]

now you know the face of your destructor

[silver folio]

right and this matters to me how?

[real notch]

am i supposed to start leveling hiryuu now

[slow totem]

Not to you specifically, but to PvP stuff?

:O I wasn’t aiming at you as in you in person.

[silver folio]

yeah and i said theres no reason to use eldridge right now if enemy isnt lucky E

[slow totem]

But the meta topic.

[real notch]

why does hiryuu look so fucking tanky

[silver folio]

but this is PvP meta where im assuming ur facing against decent teams and not rando teams

[slow totem]

Yea, and my reaction to that is those two points

[inland tiger]

Is amagi better than hood?

[silver folio]

and decent teams dont use other CVs

other than ent

[modern tree]

its with Nagato buff but yes, this ship is bonkers, 15 seconds of invulnerablity with instant airstrike on taking lethal damage is stupid af

[slow totem]

Which agress with you

Eldridge is good against Ent (your point)

Plus the things I mentioned (agreeing and adding to your point)

[real notch]

no izurich is right

about the eldridge thing

[silver folio]

so eldrdige is prettty pointless outside of that, for noobs using cranes then yeah sure go ahead

u can use her in offense in niche istuations but never in def

[slow totem]

Yeah, I agreed with Enty, but he seemed to think I was debating him.

[real notch]

eldridge is currently very good in EN

[silver folio]

my only arugment was that eldridge is awful on def

[real notch]

and twin 410mms is very strong

[silver folio]

shes only a pick for offense

[real notch]

probably more common on USS BBs than triple 406mm atm

depends

[slow totem]

She also survives the Twin 127 shredding by WASD.

[real notch]

eldridge before worked well in offtank (top) position but now she's probably better in middle

[silver folio]

eldridge dies way too much on defense

[slow totem]

I found that out over the last couple of weeks

[silver folio]

foxes made it bad and now theres aurora

[real notch]

she likely won't get torped as often and will proc rainbow more often

the problem is

it's been 2 weeks since aurora

[slow totem]

Aurora (without foxes) actually helps Eld trigger rainbow

[real notch]

and i've fought

maybe

...

3 twinfox aurora fleets?

[slow totem]

It’s funny like that.

[azure aurora]

Vanguard Belfast ?

[real notch]

so it's important to also standardize the frequency of these fleets appearing

[silver folio]

well speaking from my experience, most people in top 1k pvp already have foxes

[azure aurora]

In that video ?

[real notch]

if there is 1 aurora twinfox fleet

then fuck it

use eldridge

she's still T0

regardless whether you are twinfox aurora player or not

[slow totem]

And Enty, and Hood.

WASD is slightly rarer cause event.

[silver folio]

u can put her in defense in low level rankings but again pointless

i dont set any storng fleets in defense

[slow totem]

Defense, as a whole, is pointless

[silver folio]

thats my point

[slow totem]

true

[silver folio]

eldridge is purely offense, and even on defense shes not good

[azure aurora]

That hiryuu is good

[silver folio]

u want something that can force resets/stall, which eldridge does not do. she only exists to escape E timings, which against depends on the oppoentn running lucky E

[slow totem]

RNG-based Defense has its merits.

Eldridge can cuck Lucky E spammers

[azure aurora]

I notice that guy using sakura torp plane

[slow totem]

And force them to run Foxes/Twin 410mms

[silver folio]

thats my whole point, ONLY for lucky E for defense

well u should be running twin 410mms anyway

[slow totem]

If we narrow the scope to just people talking here, then yeah, it’s easy to say that

[silver folio]

my point is there are better ships than eldirdge on defense

[azure aurora]

[silver folio]

and on low level i find blocking newbies kind of silly

[real notch]

eldridge isn't just to counter enterprise though

[azure aurora]

9/10 wasd in lex using 406

[real notch]

she counters 127 spam

[silver folio]

only if

their fleet is weak enough that u blow them up and ur eldridge spills over

[slow totem]

Well, Eldridge counters what I’ve pointed out, inc the 127 shredding. But let’s be real, most of the time, it’s for E.

[silver folio]

which is on def

since THEY should be on ur side of the map

and i believe i said eldrdige was legit on offense for the 127 shredding

on defense though if their fleet actually lets ur eldrdige to pass over, then they're probably new

[real notch]

well

i mean

in a scenario with identical fleets

[silver folio]

then the offense wins

and their eldridge dies

[real notch]

but they don't have eldridge

and you do

[silver folio]

berfore passing over to block127mm

then its not identitcal fleets o-o

[real notch]

their eldridge spilling over is extremely likely

that's why u wait for me to finish my sentence

[silver folio]

no

because that means u lost to WASD+eldridge on offense

which is silly

their VG shoudlnt be spilling over to yours at all

most of the time its your fleet spilling over to their VG and then dying to the 127mm shredding

[real notch]

ok let's find some common ground

ent wipes vanguards, agree?

[silver folio]

not against eldridge

but yes

[real notch]

alright

so assuming an enemy ent lucky E's your vanguard

you're getting wiped without eldridge

[silver folio]

jsut to be clear

are we attacking or defending

[real notch]

attacking

well

[silver folio]

i said eldrdige was good on offense

lolwut

[real notch]

yeah WE are attacking

[silver folio]

because thene u know what hes running

ofc go eldridge and cuck him

what seems to be the issue here?

[real notch]

that's why you run eldridge

on defense

[silver folio]

no

because u dont know what hes running

[real notch]

if you have to adjust for her

then you're basically admitting you'll lose otherwise

[silver folio]

@real notch except u dont tho, foxes are most popular and widely available ships

and great offense

[blazing scroll]

You will lose anyway 🤷

[real notch]

u have lost me

[silver folio]

i dont see the part where i would have to adjust for eldrdige since foxes blow her up 🤔

[blazing scroll]

You opt gir the best win %

[real notch]

bruh LOL

[silver folio]

i dont understand what adjusting u have to do for eldridge??

fox+hood, nothing lines up for eldridge

[real notch]

ok

i just said identical fleets with the exception of eldridge

also, from a logical perspective

[silver folio]

u have foxes for offense and wasd for defense

wats the issue here

[real notch]

arguing a counter to eldridge does not invalidate her viability in defense

[silver folio]

im saying her viablity in defneseis limited

purely for enterprise fleets

so if everyone is using enterprise

go ahead

[real notch]

but that's pretty much the EN meta right now

[silver folio]

ehhh

[slow totem]

Enty’s right tho.

[real notch]

i said like 15 mins ago almost all fleets in EN are wasd fleets

[slow totem]

Uhm... not really

[silver folio]

not really...?

[slow totem]

Cause WASD is limited by event

By statistic, there are more people who don’t have them than those who do

[real notch]

on avrora

[silver folio]

i been seeing less and less WASD as days pass tbh

[blazing scroll]

Its just top 1k has them

[lone pendant]

more akaga

[blazing scroll]

Almost guarenteef

[silver folio]

lots of new players + akaga always available

[livid fractal]

Avrora has more wasd/hood/ent

[slow totem]

They’re hyping for Amagi

[real notch]

[slow totem]

[real notch]

sorry i tend to use avrora as the base for EN

[silver folio]

i AM on avrora

LOL

[real notch]

then yea

avrora has more wasd fleets

than foxes

[lament lichen]

Theres more wasd

[real notch]

i am totally willing

to count

top 100 for you

for the next 3 resets

to prove empirically it's true

[silver folio]

@real notch but are they using WASD for attack though?

on defense wasd is the best fleet for sure

[slow totem]

The top rankers, yes

Cause they are lijely Level 70 and above Commanders

[blazing scroll]

I do use wasde for attack

[silver folio]

but i never WASD for offense, i use foxes to end shit quickly

[blazing scroll]

Too lazy to change

[lament lichen]

But then again defese is just there to stall for those who sandbag

[real notch]

ok

typically

[slow totem]

I used WASD E/Hood on offense, it works, but it’s a slog

Sometimes enjoyable when I feel I wanna relax

Knowing I can’t get surprise gimped via Iron Butt

[real notch]

i would say as a general statement, you cannot simultaneously run optimized wasd and foxes

[silver folio]

u can though

foxes dont share equip with wasd

[real notch]

unless if you have 2 reppuus and no badge on backline

[silver folio]

?

i dont put badge on backline

i put catapult and oil tank

[real notch]

do you ahve 2 reppuus?

[slow totem]

I put Badge on my QE to double down on her buffer role (also cause she’s my Bae).

[silver folio]

reppuu isnt bis though?

[slow totem]

👌

[silver folio]

u want 1 VF and 1 reppuu

[slow totem]

No ragrets

[real notch]

ok

[silver folio]

VF has higher damge bombs

why would u double repuu

[slow totem]

Oh yeah, VF is enough to subtitute Reppuu

Fake “Owari Das” man

[silver folio]

VF is already great

[real notch]

disregarding badge usage on wasd backline (which is widely agreed upon as BiS)

[silver folio]

@slow totem wait so are u agreeing that VF is good or bad?

[real notch]

VF17 is not BiS

[slow totem]

Good, I use them for Fake Owaridas

Berry entertaining

[silver folio]

VF17 is BiS though inazuma

[slow totem]

(Also actually good)

[silver folio]

goes off quickest

highest damage bombs

gives an AA buff too

[real notch]

do you know how much extra bomb dmg

it's 20

20 extra bomb dmg

[silver folio]

pretty sure it was more than 20 but i dont have the sheet with me atm

[slow totem]

Wait, the argument is that 2 reppuus is possible, cause 1 VF and 1 Reppuu is good enough

[real notch]

it's 20

lmao

[silver folio]

in any case why do u need 2 reppuus on offense

[real notch]

i can get statsheet for you

it's a very minor bomb advantage

[silver folio]

im still confused at why 2 reppuus are mandatory?

@slow totem can u explain

[real notch]

i'm nto saying 2 reppuus are mandatory

[slow totem]

I like VF17

[real notch]

i'm saying if you run a reppuu on enterprise, you'll need at least 1 more to run on a fox

[slow totem]

Both for being actually good and enabling Fake Owari Das

[silver folio]

i use VF17 and 1 Repuu i dont see the issue here

u dont need repuu on enterprise though

[real notch]

yea u don't need reppuu

you can run VF17

reppuu is BiS though

i said optimized earlier

[silver folio]

assuming if it was BiS, the 20% offense negates that minor munor thing

[real notch]

do you know the stat comparison breakdown of VF17 vs reppuu?

[silver folio]

u can s tick the reppuu on enterprise then

and put VF17 on ur foxes

i dont see any issue here

u dont need reppu for foxes

[real notch]

then it's not optimized lmfao

[silver folio]

why do u need to be optimized for attack?

[real notch]

[silver folio]

u will still roll over

as foxes

[real notch]

this is like

monkaS

[silver folio]

nono

[real notch]

for me

[slow totem]

[silver folio]

im confused what we're trying to argue here

[real notch]

you're strawmanning me like

at a rate of

2 times per minute

LMFAO

[silver folio]

i said

u can run

[real notch]

i'm actually done with these logical fallacies

[silver folio]

2 fleets

foxes on attack

wasd on defense

and that will do work

but ur saying both need to be maxed optimized, not sure why thats needed?

[real notch]

alright

let me dispell the strawman before i go eat some ice cream and hop off

first, i did not say you cannot run 2 fleets

[silver folio]

right

[real notch]

second, i did not say that both need to be maxed optimized

this is what i said, you can scroll up to check

[silver folio]

right but whats the double reppuu argument for then

even if its BiS why did u bring it up