pvp

[delicate shore]

[real notch]

actually after that i switched back to wasd ent

LMFAOO

[delicate shore]

lol

[real notch]

i mean

wasd ent is wobbly but at least they don't hit a brick wall

[delicate shore]

i think hood is better now

with the whole backline using 410s

[real notch]

maybe

[sturdy mantle]

why not keep mk6s on wasd but the 410s on hood?

[real notch]

can u do the EN PVP scene afavor

[delicate shore]

not enough dmg

to kill nt

ent

[real notch]

and start reset testing (minimum 10 times) against wasd ent fleets

[delicate shore]

its not much of a dmg loss

if any

tbh

ive been

i havent lost yet

but i havent found one thats over 13k

[real notch]

can u record them too

[grave gale]

Foxes are fast but can hit brick walls like that, yeah

[delicate shore]

the most i found was 12.9k

how do u record on nox?

[sturdy mantle]

I mean you lack the fire procs, I understand the 410 on Hood to max the refire rate

[grave gale]

use OBS

[real notch]

no just like in text form

[delicate shore]

oh

[real notch]

well u can record the vid too but

i wanna see data

[delicate shore]

ye if i remember to i will

[real notch]

like, maybe 4-5 different opponents

10 reset tests per

and then a basic conclusion on win conditions, loss conditions, etc.

that way we can kinda

solidify the 410 thing

[modern tree]

this game must be really easy to figure out since I was discussing the merit of just running 410s instead just yesterday here

[real notch]

otherwise it's just conjecture

[grave gale]

I wish we could see our opponent's gear

[delicate shore]

bro

i've been preaching 410s

for a month

lol

[real notch]

i'm inclined to agree tho

yea i mean

i'm sitting on the fence right

[delicate shore]

everyone has the idea that 406s are bis

[real notch]

i'm not against it since i run a 410

[delicate shore]

just cuz a few game gurus said that

[real notch]

but i need some more evidence to actually run 3x 410s

[delicate shore]

that shit is solidified in everyones mind nobodys wliling to actually try using 410s

just give it a shot

[modern tree]

I play HMS so I dont have problems like this

[real notch]

that's tru tho

because the game gurus in this server are all PVE based

[sturdy mantle]

I still run X2 mk6s with Hood / QE being the ones I mount 410s on them

[real notch]

they tend to give wrong PVP advice

sometimes

and people just listen because they have the guru tag

[delicate shore]

i'd say dunk is the game guru that does the most pvp

and even hes wrong sometimes

esp about AA

[real notch]

yea cus dunk isn't good at coming to conclusions

he's good at finding evidence

well tbh dunk is the best out of them so

i like him

[delicate shore]

yeah...i like dunk

not to discredit the other gurus tho

theyre all great

lol

good peeps

[real notch]

anyways the thing about 410s

[modern tree]

secret gossip channel

[real notch]

i can try testing it too but

[grave gale]

The reason that MK6 is always used in most cases(especially in early mid game) is that it has very high per salvo damage(not the same thing as DPS, like I said earlier DPS is not very useful in assessing BB guns). Three giant fireballs will clear a big portion of your screen.
The 410mm on the other hand feels very half-assed even if both shots land. If they don't die from it it's very frustrating and lengthens your battle for a whole new round of reload, making your grind longer.

However, these cases are assuming low to moderate firepower stats.
At some point, EN will have level uncapping and you will have Lv 120+ BBs. When the base firepower rises, 410mm's faster reload will become much more advantageous. The per salvo damage will be adequate to clear your enemies (especially preboss battles) and you won't really leave them half-dead. Coupled with BB auxillaries (special shells that increase crits), this makes you clear maps faster than using MK6.
On top of all that you can still enjoy the higher fire damage, faster reload for skill triggers etc.

This won't happen any time soon for EN so you should still treasure your MK6s. Just know that future trend might favor 410mm. A final caveat would be that the MK6 won't become a "bad" gun by any means, even in the future, because Azur Lane is an easy game. Both guns have their own sets of characteristics that make them suitable for some things but not for others. It's just that for early to mid game, MK6's advantages are more apparent. In end game(with the addition of new game features/contents), 410mm's advantages become more apparent.```

[delicate shore]

do u have 3 +10 410s tho?

[real notch]

yea i don't have spare plates for it

trying to save for the prototype gold nagato guns and stuff

[delicate shore]

lol

i see

[sturdy mantle]

my problem with the 410s is that they just don't damage frontline DDs as much as the mk6s

[delicate shore]

yea it took me a while to +10 mine

[real notch]

i can probably make 2

[delicate shore]

totally worth tho

[real notch]

but then i'd have 0

plates left

[grave gale]

I have three 410 and three 406 +10

[delicate shore]

do u have wasd maxed lunar?

[real notch]

i spent all my plates on maxing my 127s

[delicate shore]

try using the 410s against wasd ent

[grave gale]

not 200 affinity

[delicate shore]

with wasd hood

thats good enough

200 affection doesnt add that much anyway

[real notch]

well

the real question is

is wasd ent (2x 410s) better than wasd hood (3x 410s)?

[grave gale]

I don't go out of my way to grind affinity except for the foxes because the extra reload will make a big difference in launching first against mirror nagato fleets

[delicate shore]

before i switched to using 410s on wasd

[modern tree]

if you are running wasd hood, I'd probably still keep 406 on sodak, give her gold fcr and she will shoot at 410 timing either way

[delicate shore]

wasd ent gave my fleet a real tough time

while i was using hood

[modern tree]

and hit way harder when you procccc

[real notch]

@modern tree that's what i do but there's a slight timing issue

[modern tree]

probably yea

[real notch]

410s is 15% faster than a 406mm

[modern tree]

I am not sure how that would work timing wise

[real notch]

and HFCR makes your 406mm 16% faster

[sturdy mantle]

@modern tree thats what I do unless I put the FCS on Hood with the 410s for even lower times

[real notch]

so due to BB proc inherent delay

you'll basically waste the 15% CDR on HFCR

[delicate shore]

is that true?

[real notch]

yeae

[delicate shore]

so 410 + gold fcr is no good?

[real notch]

you mean BB inherent delay?

uhh no

[sturdy mantle]

no the 410 + hood works I thought

and HFCS

[real notch]

1 BB - 410
1 BB - 406mm + HFCR

is not good ^

[delicate shore]

ooo i see

[real notch]

because it aligns their timing

[modern tree]

I am so glad that HMS doesnt have problems like this, I just shooty hood, then Warspite with advfcr 406, then QE, sometimes blows up frontlines, but really doesnt have to

[delicate shore]

ye im using 410 and gold fcr on hood

[real notch]

only on first BB proc tho

2nd BB proc no problems

[delicate shore]

ill be using HMS on attack

when i get my QE and WS to 200

[modern tree]

HMS is dumb atm

like

it legit feels unfair

[delicate shore]

itll be even better with monarch

or duke

[real notch]

i'm not sure

[sturdy mantle]

thats barrage spam for ya

[real notch]

i've been saying this for the last month but

i cannot make a statement about HMS in a tierlist

until i actually fight a maxed HMS fleet

... and i never thought it would take this long

to find one goddamn maxed HMS

[delicate shore]

i think draake's fleet was the toughest HMS

ive fought so far

and that was like

[real notch]

i even found suzuteo twice

[delicate shore]

2 months ago

[real notch]

and he had meme fleets both times

[delicate shore]

i fought his fleet

his actual HMS fleet

[real notch]

like gimme a break boi

[delicate shore]

it wasnt as good as draakes

tbh

[real notch]

i'm tryina test for science here

[modern tree]

tbh, most of the hms power comes from positioning correctly and having 20% attacker bonus

I dont think its a good defensive fleet

[grave gale]

That's why I don't like seeing meme fleets

[modern tree]

I could record my games I guess

[real notch]

yea so in my tests i'll position my ships unfairly

[delicate shore]

HMS on defense really fucks with the foxes tho

in my experience

[real notch]

to get a better idea of how the games would go

[delicate shore]

back when i was using foxes

i had the most trouble with HMS

before wasd came out of course

lol

[real notch]

like i wanna see the win chances if my ent is dead after 1st strike

and then i'll position them fairly

for comparison

[grave gale]

Because Hood and Warspite is going to immediately delete a fox

[real notch]

so washington across from WS

[delicate shore]

yea exactly

[grave gale]

then your damage is crippled

[real notch]

then i'll check my win chances

that way i'll get a clear idea of how HMS currently performs in the meta

[delicate shore]

i never do that

when i test

[modern tree]

also, I imagine it would be hard to find HMS that makes the correct choice of skipping Juneau for Eldridge in this meta

[real notch]

by considering both offense/defense fleets

[delicate shore]

i just keep everyone in the same position

to get a good idea of how it would go in defense

lol

[modern tree]

I will keep spamming it here in hopes of seeing it in my games

[real notch]

yea i don't move my ships either

[grave gale]

me neither

[real notch]

but if my fleet coincidentally seems to match up in my favor

[grave gale]

it's an unfair advantage

[real notch]

i'll swap them to make it unfair

[delicate shore]

yeah i dont do that either

[real notch]

to see how it would go against an HMS that tries to position against me

[delicate shore]

feels like cheating myself

lol

like if im trying to put up an annoying defense fleet

i wont be able to change positions

just try to minmax everything else

[real notch]

hmm

i'm not sure about juneau being thrown out

then again i'm not a "native" HMS user

but typically in long-winded BB shelling games

juneau is key

[delicate shore]

im using juneau in HMS

but

i dont have eld either

[grave gale]

HMS doesn't run Eldridge normally which means lucky e can wipe out your vanguard instantly

and that wastes Juneau's heal

making her worthless

[delicate shore]

thats why u need to optimize ur AA set up

[modern tree]

you want eldridge to not get memed by helena bige and with eldridge, jueau wont die, ever

[delicate shore]

6 UFOs

[sturdy mantle]

so Eldridge + Juneau would be better than just Juneau alone?

[delicate shore]

i realized how important AA is today

just by using more ufos

[modern tree]

eldridge + juneau just kills your backline

[real notch]

hmm

[modern tree]

I run eldridge fortune belfap

makes eldridge faster too

[real notch]

that is a problem but i don't think i've lost to it before

[modern tree]

fortune makes enough of a difference to not die to bige touchdown + wash barrage

[real notch]

that is to say, i've never lost with all juneau standing and my backline dead

[modern tree]

and you just bypass most of everything else with op rainbow

[delicate shore]

eld gets cucked by bb's tho doesnt she

?

[modern tree]

win because hood spite clean backline super fast

[real notch]

eld counters BBs

[delicate shore]

wot

[real notch]

wat

it's 20s rainbow

[delicate shore]

i think 410s are working against eld too then

lol

[modern tree]

well, eldridge would die to bbs if people used 410s and I didnt run 3 boilers

[real notch]

oh

[modern tree]

xd

[real notch]

yea if u run 410s i guess

[grave gale]

Eld times with the 406 yeah

[real notch]

need tests to confirm effectiveness but

[grave gale]

410 can still hit her

[sturdy mantle]

but 410s do less damage to eldridge since ap

[delicate shore]

410 is HE..

lmao

[real notch]

yea need to test to see if eld dies more often against 410 shells

[sturdy mantle]

then what

wait

[delicate shore]

410s dont do that much less

tbh

dont let gurus tell u

[sturdy mantle]

have I been using 381s this entire time then

[delicate shore]

what to think

test for urself

[sturdy mantle]

facedesk

[delicate shore]

before u doubt the 410

[modern tree]

410 is fine, the problem is that its a little TOO accurate and speed fucks with it a lot

[real notch]

wat

381s lol

[sturdy mantle]

WHY DO I HAVE 381s ON MY HOOD

[modern tree]

speed is a hidden gem of a stat

[delicate shore]

yea..boilers are pretty good

[real notch]

well

[delicate shore]

i dont think ive come across anyone with a fast enough vanguard to survive my backline tho

then again im up in the 1k+ ranks right now

lol

[real notch]

ok so that's a very important point @modern tree

we actually don't know if 410s are more accurate than 406s

[sturdy mantle]

that explains why I thought 410s were meh since I thought I was running them on my Hood, but Ive been running 381s for some reason

[modern tree]

people dont run boilers/gyros tho, just like they dont run 410s

[real notch]

if it were and proven, then 410 would have objective advantage

[delicate shore]

thats why we need more ppl using 410s

im pretty convinced that rn

[modern tree]

410 has tighter spread I am pretty sure, the shells almost always hit the same spot

[delicate shore]

410 is the weay to go

and apparently im not the only one

[real notch]

because people could just can be confusing the 1 extra shell radius for "wider spread"

[delicate shore]

gurren and kanna think so as well

[modern tree]

na

[delicate shore]

and its not kanna moon mind u

its some other kanna

[modern tree]

410 actually has 20 spread to 406 22

[delicate shore]

lol

[modern tree]

in stats

[real notch]

ya i know him

[delicate shore]

ye

[real notch]

no i meant like

splash radius

[sturdy mantle]

aoe?

[real notch]

vs shell landing spot

[modern tree]

wider spread with one more shell would mean you hit a huge area yes

[real notch]

i guess the only way to test tis

would be to go into the torp daily

and keep shelling

[sturdy mantle]

I would think they would have similar explosion areas for the shells since they have the same shell type

[real notch]

and learning the landing patterns

because i feel like

i see the 410 landing all it's shells more often than i see the 406 landing all its shells

given 1 target

idk tho

[delicate shore]

btw

im using ufos on sodak and washy

shit is legit

👌

[modern tree]

I still have only 6 gold AAs after all those months

[real notch]

wat were u using before

[modern tree]

farming ufo atm

its hell

[delicate shore]

bofors on everyone

except juneau

[real notch]

oh jesus

LMAOOO

[delicate shore]

some ppl from the community server told me to use 113s on my wasd

[real notch]

the primary AA stats for PVP are DMG and range

due to the auto nature

[delicate shore]

yea..i can tell there a huge difference

and u only 1 shot

apparently

to shoot the planes down

[real notch]

and since you can't focus on all 3 (RoF, range, dmg) in AA mix

[delicate shore]

and 113 has some crazy burst

[real notch]

you must choose 2

[modern tree]

range and burst are obvious choices since its hard to predict where your front will be on the plane timing

[real notch]

but yea bofors has like 25 range right?

[modern tree]

28

[sturdy mantle]

would you not need some rof due to the plane timing?

[modern tree]

bofors are not the worst

[real notch]

28 right

pompoms at 25

u just went from

28 range to 35

LOL

u want a plane to scrape ur circle and get 1 shot

not hope that the plane stays in the circle for 2 ticks

[delicate shore]

yeah

im at 9/15 of my 4th ufo

gonna give that one to hood prob

full ufo backline

[real notch]

loll

hood only has like

[delicate shore]

302 AA

[modern tree]

just ufo everything until you can put STAAG on hood for acc

[real notch]

yea base 285 before marriage boost

[delicate shore]

she has higher than fortune and bel

so yeah

eventually im gonna test using all 113

lol

that panda dudes guide says to use 113 on everyone

[modern tree]

hes probably right

[delicate shore]

i think so too

[idle python]

(i'm 90% sure panda only did like 20% of the guide)

[delicate shore]

idk

[idle python]

and aristya did the rest

[delicate shore]

but its legit

👌

[real notch]

well

[idle python]

but yeah roomba on backlines is very common in pvp

[real notch]

mostly legit

yeae

the roomba part is legit tho

it just makes sense

[delicate shore]

thats one thing that dunk was wrong about

[real notch]

to stack range and DMG

dunk probably was thinking from a PVE perspective

[sturdy mantle]

I feel like all 113s would struggle though against a 3 cv set, just due to launch staggering

[real notch]

after he made the bofors chart for single-AA gun DPS

he was like

oh shit

with this evidence

[idle python]

also tfw I'm trying to test wasd vs foxes on CN and go through 10 fights without seeing any nakagas with aurora or sendai

[real notch]

bofors is the best AA gun

[delicate shore]

lol

[idle python]

my server is like all memes

esp when you alrady missed pvp attempts

[real notch]

in credit he's more right if it's PVE tho

cus u can control ur circle

[delicate shore]

who plays manual tho

[real notch]

but in PVP where it's auto it's like

[delicate shore]

[real notch]

meh

[idle python]

though I found a decent wasd hood I think I might be able to test with my nakaga

[delicate shore]

wasd hood still relevant in CN?

[real notch]

that's weird

[idle python]

Kind of sort of not really

[delicate shore]

oh lol

[real notch]

@sturdy mantle btw foxes tend to simultaneously launch

[delicate shore]

wait so who takes the 3rd spot in wasd

in CN

[real notch]

and if paired with ent there's a 13sec window between the launches

[idle python]

I'm using wasd ent

until I level up centaur

[delicate shore]

ooo

centaur

[idle python]

essex and monarch are also used

[real notch]

illustrated by tony taka

[sturdy mantle]

@real notch of course, I understand the 113s on the backline for the sheer burst, but you would think some rof would be good on some of the vanguard

[delicate shore]

essex sounds op against cv comps

i feel like

dork could work with wasd too

[idle python]

This front line looks like an HMS front though lol

[coral wren]

is warspite a good boat for pvp, even in non-hms lineups?

[idle python]

probably not the best test vs nakaga but there's like nobody out there with good (or rather not oudated) front and back

[delicate shore]

thats what im using

[idle python]

nah don't use warspite outside of hms

[delicate shore]

except for that blue haired girl

lol

[real notch]

i like how fortune's still being used

[delicate shore]

whos that girl?

[real notch]

lmfao

neptune

[delicate shore]

ooo

[idle python]

I see 0 reason for fortune when ykz exists

[real notch]

@coral wren not really

not in non HMS lineups

[delicate shore]

ykkz is like an upgraded version of fortune

[real notch]

it's not really seen

[delicate shore]

lol

cant wait to get her

and nagato

[real notch]

she's literally made for PVP

YKKZ will forever be relevant

[delicate shore]

yuki sama

but ye

anyway

everyone using wasd should try using 410s

@idle python u think boiler/tookit would be better than double toolkit on fortune?

[idle python]

I'm personally not a huge believer in speed meme

[delicate shore]

oh i see

k

[idle python]

so I just go toolboxes

[delicate shore]

im using double boxes too rn

[idle python]

(I also think dildos are super overated on torp comps)

[real notch]

apparently speed gives AA

[delicate shore]

YES

same here

i stopped using dildo

in favor of defensive aux

[real notch]

which should be considered when adding speed

[delicate shore]

i think fortune and bel with beaver is fast enough

[modern tree]

speed is the best meme, not a day in pvp without gyros/boilers

[grave gale]

torp damage seems nerfed in pvp compared to pve. Ayanami with dildo in pve can do 5k with her torps but in pvp, they only do 1-2k.

[delicate shore]

i think i saw belfast hitting around 2k with a torp tho

on a backliner

[grave gale]

Yeah 2k is on the back

[delicate shore]

without dildo

[modern tree]

pvp has double hp and 50% less damage

[grave gale]

I only see 1k with ayanami on the vanguard

[delicate shore]

torp bulge

[modern tree]

there would be a difference, but probably not that severe

[delicate shore]

prob

lol

[grave gale]

Oh. I knew they had double the hp. Didn't know there was a damage reduction too

[modern tree]

but light armour+bulge takes very little torp damage

[delicate shore]

30% is a lot

[real notch]

also

it gives 10 reload

don't forget the reload

[delicate shore]

torp bulges?

[real notch]

no the rainbow dildo

[delicate shore]

oh

lol

my dildo is +10

and i stll dont use it much

[idle python]

for my dildos on CN I have 2 on White Heart (meme), 1 on ibuki, and 1 unused lol

meanwhile all 7 sets of my shells are on somebody

[tough vapor]

where do u get rainbow dildos?

on CN

[delicate shore]

white heart kinda sounds op

with that

[idle python]

core data

nah it's for memes

aya still better

[delicate shore]

oh lol

[idle python]

Lol I don't think my front line will hit 13k at 120 but it's fine since it can beat the 15k married dildo users anyway if I don't get torp cheesed at the start

[delicate shore]

weird

[idle python]

(they're all unmarried for reference)

[delicate shore]

why do some ships have such lower power lvl tho

like cleve

lol

[idle python]

yeah the uss cls have low powre level

idk why exactly lol

[delicate shore]

even with a +10 belgun

she cant get 4k

and 200 affection even

lol

[grave gale]

power is all their stats combined

[idle python]

ok nvm it's 12909 now since I forgot to re-equip the belgun on sendai

[delicate shore]

[grave gale]

but certain ones add more than others and vice-versa

not sure what the exact formula is

[delicate shore]

welp im out of oil now

back to playing my nep games

[real notch]

oh

i just realized i had an extra +10 410

wtf

lol

i guess i can test it after all

[mental sierra]

18 minutes to reset

10 minutes. Guess I should do matches.

[coral wren]

Which nep game @delicate shore ?

I've been working my way through rebirth 1 again for the acheivement%

[delicate shore]

rebirth 1

havent played the others yet

[molten perch]

henlo

[alpine finch]

think hood/warspite/nc is good for bursting enemy backlines?

something to 💩 on foxes

no sd atm

[modern tree]

if you are running hood and spite why not just farm qe

[alpine finch]

o qe is an option

does she also increase her own stats

or is that strictly other HMS

[modern tree]

she increses her own stats afaik

but with her boost warpite and hood can cleanly boop one of the foxes before the second strike, severly crippling the other

[alpine finch]

[zenith flame]

need opinions

I have 4 botes I wanna take on vanguard

[ Laffey, Eldridge, Belfast, Ayanami]

[dull elm]

Eldridge + Belfast other too are not rly good for pvp

[zenith flame]

oh so eld/aya/laffey wasnt the way to go , oops

[dull elm]

i use Eld/Belfast/Helena/Juneau depending on what team i face

well Juneau pretty much always

[charred sable]

Belfast/Eldrige/Helena/Juneau/Fortune Retrofit

these are the currently recommended meta PvP vanguard units

Ayanami wont shine until we get magne-torpedoes (e.g. torpedoes are fired in the direction of the enemy rather than in a fixed pattern)

[real notch]

i would avoid starter kai because they're just not top tier but

if u must, laffey is a great option

[charred sable]

[dull elm]

starters just dont have skills which benefit the whole fleet

[real notch]

yeah

they're not team players

[vague token]

i mean, someone has to get all the buffs to do mad deeps

aka ayanami

xD

[carmine temple]

lolis bring intrinsic value that cannot be explained on paper

[vague token]

you see triple BB, you run aya

snipe the backline with demon dance

ez

[odd schooner]

And triple BB can pop aya if she's hit

[vague token]

if you're already running juneau/helena

the only thing you can add is damage

against 3 bbs

there's no defense

[odd schooner]

Or more protection

[vague token]

so just try to shoot them back

[odd schooner]

[vague token]

i mean, fortune has the same problem

not like CLs do worthwhile damage

to backline

[odd schooner]

I mean current trend rn for triple BB is 406 anyway so you could slap Eldridge

[vague token]

eldridge is too risky against 3 bb

[odd schooner]

Since she's a heavy counter for 406

[vague token]

it's generally better to do 2k+ damage to backline

then to negate 1 406 shot

because that means your backline can just blow them up sooner

and turn it into main fleet vs vanguard

[odd schooner]

Maybe I should run some test on this soon

[vague token]

i mean there arent really many options for vanguard for 3x bb defense

cause they wont do much with guns

cls dont do damage to BBs

[pearl nimbus]

oh, so this chat does exist

[vague token]

so all you can do is Helena

which is good

or

sniper destroyers

like laffey/ayanami

to tack on 1k-2k torpedos

[real notch]

welcome

[vague token]

and just hope they dodge the vanguard

imo

nothing set in stone of course

[odd schooner]

The problem is that if they miss a lot

[vague token]

then it's ok, cause it's just the 3rd unimportant overall vanguard slot

against 3x bb

you dont need eldridge/belfast for defense

so it's literally w/e

just gun them down with attacker bonus

no gimmicks, just a dps race

[pearl nimbus]

Sorry to interrupt but I have a question

[vague token]

(until yukikaze of course, 25% chance to negate all damage lol)

sup

[pearl nimbus]

So, someone in #gameplay-help claimed that Foxes+Enty is bad, can you elaborate on that?

[vague token]

on average it's bad, but god if it doesnt force restarts

helena/E defense is the biggest rng ive ever seen

with foxes

easily can destroy your entire backline if the gods say so

[pearl nimbus]

Yeah I've started to figure out that restarts are the meta thing to do lmao

which is bs

[vague token]

on the flip side, you can also get rekt

triple carrier can be counter picked pretty easily

if you've trained the right ships

[pearl nimbus]

laughs in Warspite

And Hood

[vague token]

the main thing is if helena lucky e triggers

you're going to lose most of your vanguard

if you dont get operation rainbow

and your main fleet is going to be bleeding heavily

[pearl nimbus]

If I'm not mistaken Hel + E only triggers if you run Enty with a non-Barracuda, right?

I'm probably wrong

But I remember hearing something like that

[vague token]

na

it's just 2 rng rolls

helena 60%

lucky e for 70%

[pearl nimbus]

ye

[vague token]

even with cuda lucky e should hit around 23 (+- a bit)

so it's always after helena

[pearl nimbus]

Ok sweet

[vague token]

the reason i would say it's bad is that if you dont get both rng procs

you're just a weaker akaga

because hood isnt applying gun pressure

[grave gale]

If eldridge is the off tank or tank spot, she has a very high chance of using operation rainbow between 20-30 seconds.

if you put her in the middle, you reduce the chance

[vague token]

akaga/E isnt a danger to vanguard

akaga/e's sole purpose

is to delete your main fleet

by 25

with a radar into lucky e

[pearl nimbus]

yeah I realised that after 2 matches

[vague token]

2.8x damage multiplier

no battleship can soak akaga + that

but it's just a gamble

[real notch]

fox enterprise is weak for the sole reason that they don't have secondary gun fire

so if a 1hp fortune rolls up to your CVs

you have to wait the entire time until their next airstrike comes up

to kill the fortune

[pearl nimbus]

I mean Enty doesn't really mind doing that

[real notch]

and waste an entire bomb drop

[modern tree]

akaga with enterprise for offensive purposes can be rather good, the problem is if your opponent has a frontline that can stall you, cuz losing your frontline first often just loses you the game with 3 CVs, you take a lot of free damage and the zombies in the vanguard tank your bombs. Obviously discussing anything being "bad" with 20% damage attacker bonus and that can proc big E is rather silly because you will win games just because Enterprise wanted you to win, no matter what you run but lets answer the question! Is the lineup bad? na, it will win you some games, force you to reset some, pvp. Will it have a very high winrate like a more optimised lineup would give you? Absolutely not, you will struggle against any belfast/eldridge vanguard and often win/lose to rng between your enterprise and eldridge, you could deefinetly do better than akaga with bigE

[pearl nimbus]

But I see your point

[real notch]

on 1 ship

also

putting a CV in capital spot

is just asking that CV t odie

in the current meta any ship in capital position that isn't a BB

is extremely vulnerable to touchdown

[grave gale]

If Enterprise is in the middle spot and she's across a BB, there's a good chance she will die before being able to use lucky e

[vague token]

sodak has to get lucky to shoot down enterprise before first gun

and have all MGM+2 land on main fleet

instead of wasting it on vanguard

if enterprise is flag

[real notch]

the bigger problem is capital ships take the bulk of plane dmg

they eat sakura torps, they eat touchdown dmg, they eat barrages

[modern tree]

enty as flagship supported by akaga is not very vulnerable because akaga has ridiculous anti air on their fighters

[vague token]

yeah, but triple carrier memes that

[pearl nimbus]

Right

[real notch]

they take additioanl damage over the other spots

[vague token]

triple carrier is literally just rnging you

[pearl nimbus]

So what would you consider an "optimised comp"

[vague token]

because there's no way to stop enterprise from getting 1 gamble

[grave gale]

Hood + Akaga counters Enty + Akaga. Hood and the foxes together will kill your Enterprise right away

[real notch]

ok so first

enterprise lucky E planes are cloaked

so they don't get shot down by interception or AA (generally)

[vague token]

oh, yeah hood/akaga works

[real notch]

and second, torps will almost guarantee hit capital

and no amount of interception by foxes will stop torps from launching

[grave gale]

wasd + enty with 410 guns is probably the best comp right now.

[vague token]

my quints almost never hit flag

[real notch]

not ship torps

[vague token]

the only thing that does is demon dance and terminator mode

[real notch]

torpedo bomber torps

[vague token]

oh you mean those

[real notch]

ye like

sakura torps will home in on capital

so imagine 12 torps coming ur way

[vague token]

depends on if they're stupid or not

sometimes they like shooting vanguard

xD

[real notch]

yea they sometimes hit vanguard if vanguard is alive

but sometimes they hit capital, and if vanguard is dead they guarantee hit capital

[vague token]

yeah

[grave gale]

Also if they're using ryusei and they hit, the middle ship is dead

[real notch]

anyways u should run tankier ships in capital @pearl nimbus

[vague token]

well, sodak wont

because wash says hi

xD

which is why i prefer cuda atm

to spread backline damage

[pearl nimbus]

Yeah makes sense

[real notch]

i just run cuda because they have godlike touchdown

cuda torps actually miss quite a bit

[grave gale]

I prefer cuda too. It's more reliable and consistent damage

ryusei has a chance of whiffing completely

[pearl nimbus]

I'm thinking of running Helena, Aya and Belfast/Eld frontline

Is that good?

[vague token]

needs more juneau

[real notch]

sometimes it drops in front of vanguard, and like half of the torps don't even hit mainguard

[pearl nimbus]

I personally dislike Juneau

[vague token]

i hate juneau's skill

unfortunately

[pearl nimbus]

I see the cheese of it....but still

[vague token]

it must be used

[modern tree]

I dont think juneau is necesary in the uss meta

[vague token]

it's a 20% health disadvantage

[real notch]

it's actually not cheese

juneau is a slow value play

[vague token]

even hms runs hms + juneau

[modern tree]

I dont run juneau in my hms and I am better for it

[vague token]

xD

[real notch]

so in longer games that extend, juneau gets more of her value

if you run foxes juneau may not be the best tempo play

[vague token]

foxes are basically their own pocket

[modern tree]

belfast eldridge is plenty defensive options, if you run foxes, helena is redundant

[real notch]

i would use fortune over juneau probably

[vague token]

cause their timings are completely different

from everyone in the game

[real notch]

helena doesn't time with foxes

so perhaps there are better options than helena

[pearl nimbus]

Hmm

[vague token]

you only run fox/e helena

[pearl nimbus]

I imagine Aya's not great, right?

[vague token]

no e, no helena

[pearl nimbus]

at least for now

[vague token]

aya is great at sniping main fleet

[grave gale]

Juneau is a wild card. If she dies early then she was wasted and you've wasted a vanguard slot.. If she dies in the middle then she heals everybody for 3000+ HP and keeps your backline alive longer. If she dies too late then somebody in the back may have already died.

[vague token]

but usually no

[pearl nimbus]

Well she gets better with homing torps 😮

[modern tree]

aya is rando, if you shotgun their frontline its funny but you are just slapping more rng on rng

[vague token]

na, aya isnt there to kill frontline

[grave gale]

Juneau can either be very good, useless or not that good at all

[vague token]

CLs are still too bulky

for her to kill

she's there to add damage on main fleet

demon dance is fairly reliable cause of how they go in a line

high activation chance

and damn the base damage

is crazy

[modern tree]

juneau with eldridge almost never dies

[vague token]

put juneau in front

she'll die

especially wasd/e

gun pressure hurts

[grave gale]

That is a problem with running Eldridge and Juneau together

[modern tree]

not in my playtests

[grave gale]

it can cause her to live too long

[modern tree]

eldridge deletes wasd enty

[grave gale]

If people in the back start dying before she does then that's a problem

[pastel forge]

can also use gool ol cleveland for general tankiness

[vague token]

or, alternatively, equip worse aux gear

ditch torpedo bulge and just take 1k at start

makes it easy

[real notch]

cleveland is a pretty strong option too

[modern tree]

I dont want to run gimped ship just to get some heals

[odd schooner]

Hmm
Aya dmg vs Backline is 3.9 with Supernatural
2.6 without super natural
1.7 with enemy fortune skill

[modern tree]

juneau is not good unless people start running multiple cvs again

and I wont be able to snipe them with hms

[vague token]

i mean, she almost always heals my sodak for at least full value

in pretty much all fights

but then again sodak eats all the damage

so

xD

[real notch]

for juneau, the less she overheals, the better

[vague token]

(also helps save the Protection status)

[odd schooner]

Demon dance is 1.5 oddly i cant see multiple dmg done. Doesnt demon dance shoot a lot of Torps

[real notch]

also, if a backline dies before juneau dies

[vague token]

it does but not all of them hit

[real notch]

the chances of winning drop

[grave gale]

I'm still not fully convinced who's better for WASD. Juneau or Fortune.

[odd schooner]

Juneau actually

[real notch]

if it's wasd, juneau almost always gets full value

[vague token]

juneau by math

[odd schooner]

Cause wasd is endurance fleet

[grave gale]

Juneau has the potential to be better but as I explained, she also has the potential to be useless

[real notch]

she usually dies too fast but with eldridge, she'll survive enough to get full value

[odd schooner]

And you want heals for endurance

[real notch]

like

there are some rare cases where enterprise will die before juneau procs

but that's ONLY if enterprise doesn't proc

[vague token]

aka your lucky e fails against hms

xD

[grave gale]

Whereas Fortune will always be useful unless she somehow dies early on (very low chance if she has max defensive aux and is in the middle)

[vague token]

also note that juneau still helps the frontline for maybe one last air strike

especially if you run more CLs

than destroyers

xD

[real notch]

yea fortune just gets better the more CVs there are in the meta

but she's actually quite useless

against BB backlines

she just gets shelled to death without flank defense really doing much

[vague token]

2.1k hp hurts

that's literally 2 shells

from any non-hood

[real notch]

that's why the meta is just a rock paper scissors game

itemize against wasd? lose against top foxes

itemize against foxes? lose against top wasd

[modern tree]

dunno how good fortune is outside of hms but evasion proc and 15% boost on her already ridiculously high evasion stat usually makes her pretty hard to swat down

[vague token]

meta bbs run double radar (except maybe wash)

aka +70 hit

[modern tree]

and I still think HMS just beats everything atm, until magtorps/nagato

[vague token]

you aren't dodging all the 406mm

[real notch]

xd

daxam

[grave gale]

Eldridge dodges the 406

[real notch]

i still need to find an HMS to fight

[modern tree]

yea

[grave gale]

It's timed to her rainbow

[modern tree]

and I still need to lose this month

[vague token]

yeah, but that means you're running fortune/eldridge

[modern tree]

or reset for that matter

[vague token]

which is like

[real notch]

apparently

[vague token]

0 vanguard pressure

[grave gale]

why do you need pressure?

[real notch]

the max fleetpower for HMS is 12.7k

[grave gale]

you just want to stay alive and stall

[real notch]

so i'm looking out

[vague token]

because against BBs you want pressure

[real notch]

for that 12.7k QE, WS, hood fleet

when i find it

i'll probably do 15-20 tests

[grave gale]

Against BBs, any vanguard will instantly die as soon as they reach the back

[real notch]

10 with my ent across from WS
10 with my wash across from WS

[grave gale]

The 127s melt them

[vague token]

CLs last quite a while

[real notch]

then we'll find out how good HMS really is

[vague token]

because 4k hp

helps a lot

xD

[modern tree]

when my frontline gets to the back the backline usually just explodes from torps and bb shelling

[grave gale]

The CLs are nothing but paper to them

Light armor with their BiS HE gun

[modern tree]

eldridge can and will still proc when shot by BB auxes

[grave gale]

Eldridge can stall for a bit against the BBs with rainbow, yeah

she's not going to do any damage to them but she can dance around their bullets for a bit

[modern tree]

torps shred bbs

[grave gale]

wouldn't say shred but they actually do damage unlike everything else

[modern tree]

dunno, vs hms you are usually fighting 2v3 by the time vanguards start dying

[vague token]

the main thing with eldridge is she can execute a burning battleship

since her reload is crazy high

if you've burned ships to 1 hp

personally i wish fire would kill but w/e

and she shoots basically the entire field with her barrage

so even if you're on the wrong side to kill

it'll tap them for 20 damage

and finish em off

if only vanguards would just ram E

=(

[modern tree]

also, HMS with 20% bonus damage is just rude, yeah, defensively its probably whatever, but if you only care about winning then try this:

[vague token]

maximum oof

[modern tree]

its not 200 affection and equipment is not fully optimised since I need to get my pve up to snuff

but this will have very hard time losing

to anything

[vague token]

i mean hms is only really weak on defense

cause you cant reposition

xD

[grave gale]

I'm in the middle of leveling my warspite

Everybody else is at 100

[real notch]

my QE queens command is level 9

[grave gale]

and QE has her skill maxed

[real notch]

workin on it xd

[vague token]

my academy is busy maxing black heart's skills

dont have time for pvp skilling

xD

[modern tree]

academy is too slow for my memes

[vague token]

but at least i never had to skill akaga

that many red books

scares me

[modern tree]

man, I have wasd enty akaga and this all maxed

shit took ages

[vague token]

ooof

[modern tree]

I like making sure I know what I am talking about, and while USS is quite strong, fuck enterprise mirrors

jesus fuck this shit so hard

[grave gale]

Aripanda recommends the belgun instead of the twin 127 on QE and Warspite. I know normally you do want the CL gun for boats but aren't all CL guns actually trash at damage?

[modern tree]

I use belguns

200% eff and 3 shots on top of QE buff is sufficent

and bonus FP is also QE buffed

so my Warspite has actually dumb numbers on her FP

[grave gale]

I see.

then I should max more belguns. I have a bunch but only one +10

[modern tree]

I'd probably consider 127 if CVs were more prominent

buuut hms has pretty shitty anti air either way so maybe not

also I feel like belguns might hit the frontline more when both are still alive because of the bullet spread, but its hard to judge how much impact that has on a game

maybe I should just try dd guns for a bit

a bit more

[lament canopy]

Hi guys

I just finished a Cranes vs Foxes PvP

let me tell you how it went

I picked this guy

and the power of my fleet

his main fleet is like +200 more powerful and his vang +900

now the battle

first wave of the cranes did serious damage to my vang, I lost Helena 😦

well, my vang was almost wiped

[grave gale]

That's why you use Belfast

[lament canopy]

Ik, but wait

I couldn't screenshot my first wave of planes

but none of the cranes died

but also took serious damage

[odd schooner]

No one dies= you die next airstrike

[lament canopy]

next airstrike of the foxes

I didn't die

[grave gale]

you would've lost without the attacker advantage

[lament canopy]

instead, my cranes deployed and was my win

[odd schooner]

That's pree risky

[lament canopy]

I didn't restart or anything, this was first try

[modern tree]

I think Cranes might be legit good in this meta because Helena actually works with them and they bypass belfast

but thats my NEXT project

[odd schooner]

They get countered by Eldridge

[grave gale]

^

[zenith flame]

just like a carrier that can solo

[modern tree]

well, most of the things do

[odd schooner]

It's worse seeing 2 backline do no dmg

[grave gale]

Eldridge counters both cranes and helena

[modern tree]

I guess BBs can actually sort of itemise against it

[lament canopy]

I aligned Hood vs Hood, and cranes vs foxes, so Hood didn't kill any fox

[odd schooner]

What Eldridge counter = 406mk6, Helena, Any CV past 20s mark

[modern tree]

can't really swap to tiny bombs on carriers and expect magic

[odd schooner]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466250908682944522/508172724405927937/Barrage.gif

This is fun tho if you can time everyone even Hood on helena radar

[modern tree]

its rather sad because my Ark could be really good if only I could hit my shots after she launches her strike

[odd schooner]

[modern tree]

Ark on USS could be so funny if Eldridge didnt just eat that

[lament canopy]

I forgot to mention that after the 2nd wave of the foxes I was with just the cranes vs Belfast+Helen+Foxes

but my second wave did the job

[odd schooner]

Best way to try your fleet is to fight a fox fleet with Eldridge on their vanguard

[lament canopy]

I've already tried that

main fleet always dies

but the vanguard survives

lol

good thing is when Eldridge doesn't activate OR

@odd schooner giving reload cuts the timing with Helena's radar

[odd schooner]

Reload on who

[grave gale]

reload doesn't make helena's radar proc before 20 sec

[lament canopy]

on Hood or Washington, right now my Hood has high standar fore control radar

and she fires before the radar

[odd schooner]

If you want to sync with radar, 410 is enough

Launch time is 18s. The barrage will hit exactly after scanning

Check gif

Then 406 with gold fcr

406 as last one

[grave gale]

410 seems better all around than the 406 for PVP huh

[odd schooner]

I stopped using it after some Eldridge incident tho

[charred sable]

@odd schooner my setup is timed for Helena. When Helena and Lucky E procs, it's almost an instant win

If not, it's still 2 barrages + air strike hitting all at once, which will deal some major damage.

If their Eldridge procs, their frontline lives, but their backline still takes a big hit

Actually, 3 barrages + airstrike if you include Washington's skill

[grave gale]

Which fighter are you using on Enterprise?

[odd schooner]

Prolly vf17

[charred sable]

Max stack would be Helena debuff + Enterprises's Lucky E + Washington's skill + South Dakota's skill

[odd schooner]

24s launch time for enty

[lament canopy]

I still don't want to use eldridge, when facing vs her, I always try to find a way of destroyin the vanguard or causing damage asap

[charred sable]

21s with the gold FCR

[lament canopy]

I dunno, I feel that playing with Eld is playing dirty

lol

[charred sable]

Oh, Enterprises strikes at around 24s yeah

Everything overlaps in the 10s debuff window

[modern tree]

I think Eldridge is rather easy to deal with as an attacker because of the bonus damage and gear flexibility

[grave gale]

It depends.

[modern tree]

playing with her yourself just ends up with your frontline never really dying

[grave gale]

Sometimes Eldridge is a cockroach even for the defensive team

[modern tree]

even if eldridge decides to live forever, I am playing HMS and your backline is goooone

rather comfortable to play on the train, I must say

[lament canopy]

the only way to kill eldridge for me is with a torp barrage, be ayanami or torp bombers

[modern tree]

I am soon going to try running a very offensive vanguard for a change and see if with attacker bonus you can afford to just glasscanon your way through stuff

[vague token]

i just wish there was more variation on timers

too many Every 20

[odd schooner]

@vague token tried using ayanami against 2 full oathed fleets (WasdE and Fox Fleet)
4 out 10 matches where she died before Juneau did on wasdE 6/10 on fox fleet

Aux is toolbox oxy. Maybe i should max her affection first then do a trial run again. Or maybe i should try Toolbox + Pearl

[mental sierra]

10 minutes to reset

Time to go

[odd schooner]

The Torps do hurt tho

[delicate shore]

what u testing?

[odd schooner]

Ayaya

[delicate shore]

i could try

my aya is at 200 affection

[odd schooner]

Go

[delicate shore]

i mean ive used her in pvp before

she does ok..nothing too special tho

[odd schooner]

The problem I'm facing with losing fortune is that 2nd fox airstrike is too deadly for my E

[delicate shore]

i thought u were using hood

lol

[odd schooner]

That fleet no problem

[delicate shore]

ye

[odd schooner]

I'm just testing wasd E

[delicate shore]

the only reason i switched to wasd ent before is cuz

wasd hood kept losing to them

but that was before i started using 410

i think i like wasd hood more tho since they seem to win more match ups

when i say win i mean with like 50% hp or more