#Suggestion - political memes channel

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

tame cypress
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not somebody living in suburbs, having 2 cars, and traveling to europe during holidays

mighty timber
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So you all support violence towards people as long as it's people you don't agree with

tame cypress
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this is not what I said 🥤 👨🏻

mighty timber
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Pence: it's not that bad or a main issue if the rich get death threats
Mort: I support this

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Maybe I'm missing something so don't hesitate to correct me

ruby sorrel
tame cypress
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Pence: it's not that bad or a main issue if the millionaires and billionaires get called "eat the rich"
Mort: I support this
here I made it more clear

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calling it death threat is just silly

solid prawn
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You’re missing something because your argument is a false flag. Firstly these kill the rich whatevers are very overblown, I haven’t seen any as a matter of fact. And then, there’s the fact that no one on Discord is ‘rich’ by that definition because it’s talking about oligarchs and social elites. So already there’s no practical reason to care. And then we consider that social class tied to wealth isn’t an oppressed characteristic, hence why no definition of ‘hate speech’ includes rich people. I don’t disagree that extreme cases could be removed, but when it’s extremely casual language like literally ‘eat the rich’ that’s not an issue at all

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The rules aren’t meant to enforce some sort of divine standard of fairness, it’s to make the server less toxic. I don’t think it’s as toxic as other issues in the channel

errant trellis
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For the use of oppressed characteristic do you mean protected status?

mighty timber
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Man, well since I assume no gay man is here..... Oh wait, it still isn't okay. Also want to add that my parents today are probably around that wealth level, while having started from simple working class families. So you're technically talking to the son of millionaires

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I'm sorry, but saying hate speech isn't affected by wealth is dumb asf

drowsy pivot
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That's what they always say
And then the middle class gets genocided

errant trellis
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Enough money to be a target, not enough to buy their safety

sweet kiln
mighty timber
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I'm sorry but I'm starting to see why people are angry. Justifying posts that want to kill a certain group and not calling it hate speech is just asking people to get angry

sweet kiln
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Like I said before

tame cypress
mighty timber
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You have people calling the death of a whole social group and the mods are doing "nothing"

sweet kiln
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Obvious political left leaning among the mods whether they say that or not. Generally right wing or centrist views on the general populace of the servers

mighty timber
sweet kiln
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Leads to unequal application of the rules

tame cypress
mighty timber
tame cypress
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not to mention industrial revolution in commielands

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and general increase of living standard

sweet kiln
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Ahem

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Soviet union

mighty timber
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soviet union?

sweet kiln
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More deaths than hitler

mighty timber
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CHINA?

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Vietnam?

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Cambodge?

tame cypress
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so americans panicking about communism is nothing else but neored scare kek

sweet kiln
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Cuba, 10000 dollar borger

mighty timber
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All the socialist party that became fascist like Italy or Germany?

mighty timber
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nothing more

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you brought that up

sweet kiln
mighty timber
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Do I call the mods to show them what you mean by "unequal applciation"?

sweet kiln
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If you like

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I'm on lunch break

tame cypress
mighty timber
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That's true from Mort

sweet kiln
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Your flawed reasoning

mighty timber
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That's also somewhat true

unborn vine
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Think my grandma was a millionaire by the time she died

sweet kiln
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If I were to make a personal attack, I would call you a privileged idiot.

tame cypress
unborn vine
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Hope to fuck you weren’t suggesting shit about my grandma

mighty timber
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Or at least do not consider that hate speech

unborn vine
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I think he must have misspoke

mighty timber
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or a problem

mighty timber
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#979224810817208320 message

sweet kiln
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Honestly, the tag "he him" is all you need to know about the mod political ideology

unborn vine
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Good

mighty timber
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#979224810817208320 message

tame cypress
unborn vine
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People will try

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I mean she’s dead

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But come for my family members and and I will fucking end you

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That means death

sweet kiln
unborn vine
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Mort is mostly trolling

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He’s a saucy boy

sweet kiln
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Nah, he is gloating because he got what he wanted

mighty timber
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Mort is a good dude, except when it's about the rich

sweet kiln
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The removal of potato.

mighty timber
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Pence is the one worrying me

sweet kiln
unborn vine
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Mort is you know…European…

mighty timber
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He's basically a French

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kill the rich, good food

sweet kiln
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I see

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So he is one of those people who would have caused the massacre at the end of the French revolution.

unborn vine
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I hate rich people too but the whole “eat the rich” and violence shit is out of line

sweet kiln
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Yeah I like him less

unborn vine
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He’s croatian

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One of the balken good guys

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Unless you love serbs because of how insane they are

tame cypress
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it really looks funny

mighty timber
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Maybe because he love his grandma?

sweet kiln
unborn vine
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Im borderline psychotic from police trainjng

sweet kiln
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You attack a man for being a man

unborn vine
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Im not even close to true paranoia

sweet kiln
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Masculinity is stupid

unborn vine
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Police trainers are completely insane

sweet kiln
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Can we delete mort?

mighty timber
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I don't think it would change a lot

sweet kiln
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Like his kind got our channel deleted

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Delete mort

mighty timber
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Mort has a right to speak

sweet kiln
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Delete the staff team

mighty timber
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Freedom of speech

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This is what we want Potatolord

sweet kiln
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Replace them with competent people

mighty timber
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Let us not be like them

tame cypress
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Man chill down @sweet kiln ☮️

sweet kiln
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I am chill

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This is me chill

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It was rhetorical

unborn vine
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We need people like mort

sweet kiln
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Obviously we keep you around

unborn vine
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Most leftists wont even talk to us

sweet kiln
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It reminds us what not to do

mighty timber
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To not become an echo chamber

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It challenges our view

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forces us to think

sweet kiln
unborn vine
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Also the croatians are the “good” balkans people we need to keep them in our camp

mighty timber
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Even if his points are absurd. It makes us think and debate

sweet kiln
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Honestly, I wouldn't mind different channels for different political parties

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Potato memes version red

haughty sonnet
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Feels like y'all are going off topic

sweet kiln
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Potato version blue

unborn vine
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No it’s nice to be with people who disagree

sweet kiln
haughty sonnet
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Hmm yes, very mature

errant trellis
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What is the topic anyway?

haughty sonnet
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The potato memes channel, although it has kinda grown to be about the entire courthouse section :p

tame cypress
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☢️

errant trellis
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Wouldn't it be a call to violence?

mighty timber
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this started an argument

haughty sonnet
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It's hardly the main issue, possibly, but irrelevant. Last I checked we don't do calling for deaths.

mighty timber
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Potatolord point is that this doesn't get anything while if he did the same for lets say the gays it would get a mute

sweet kiln
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They were saying murder the rich is fine to say but anyone else it's not.

sweet kiln
mighty timber
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Pence's point is that it doesn't count as hate speech which is IMO profoundly dangerous if we start making exceptions like that

sweet kiln
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My issue was never the removal of potato memes

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It was the manner and reason why.

cold heron
sweet kiln
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The stated excuse is insufficient.

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Which implies that the reasoning is more personal.

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IE it was removed because staff didn't like it.

cold heron
mighty timber
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Can everyone be calm for a second?

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Just so I can post without being flooded?

sweet kiln
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So when a couple of people post objectionable content they jump at the opportunity and remove the channel.

mighty timber
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So, like I was saying Pyro, it's more a question of "what is hate speech" than "he said that!!"

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Nor are people saying you the mods are calling for anyone death

haughty sonnet
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Asking for a definition of hate speech is like asking for a definition of NSFW

sweet kiln
haughty sonnet
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It's absolutely impossible to define.

sweet kiln
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If hate speech is maleable as a term then it is whatever the hell you want it to be.

mighty timber
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and let start with any death threat or call for violence

sweet kiln
mighty timber
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calm down potato

sweet kiln
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If you can't define hate speech you are incompetent

haughty sonnet
sweet kiln
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I am calm

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And I am dead serious

mighty timber
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Your team are the one making the call for when it's hate speech

haughty sonnet
sweet kiln
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If you can't define such a simple term and say it means many things then you can't be trusted to be objective with enforcement.

mighty timber
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and think it's okay

sweet kiln
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People call for the death of rich people and it's fine

haughty sonnet
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No they were saying they think there's worse things, and were reasonably respectful in this weird discussion

sweet kiln
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People call for the death of homosexuals and get immediately banned.

haughty sonnet
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Why this discussion was needed however is another question

sweet kiln
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Because it points to the reason why potato was removed

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Bias

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Political bias

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Unequal application of rules

haughty sonnet
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You're political bias

sweet kiln
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You are incompetent

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He can't define a simple term

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Hate speech

tame cypress
sweet kiln
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If you can't define the term then how I expect you to enforce the rule that says hate speech?

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Well, are you going to answer? Or do you lack one?

haughty sonnet
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What. I already did. One can probably get 80% there, but there'll always be subjectiveness.

Just like NSFW, if we could have a 100% foolproof definition there's never be any discussion about whether or not something is or isn't

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There's actually nothing simple about any of those terms, it's all very nuanced and context dependent

drowsy pivot
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It should be obvious that if calling for the death of pedos is not allowed then calling for the death of any other group is not allowed
But kill the rich memes didn't get deleted or warned while kill pedos memes did

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If there were to be one exception it would be for death to pedos

haughty sonnet
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And did you report that when it happened?

drowsy pivot
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I tend not to report things because I'm busy and I try to trust the mods to be fair
I know the mods were in the channel and even posted there
I also don't see the point in reporting things the mods ignore

sweet kiln
haughty sonnet
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It's very easy to say something was left up in a spam channel, if you can't even be bothered to report.

errant trellis
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Memes have been warned for multiple posts or hours after their posting, so saying it wasn't reported doesn't really work as a reason not to address it

drowsy pivot
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If I go around reporting things all the time it just increases the odds that if I post something near the edge of the rules it will get reported and I will get warned

haughty sonnet
sweet kiln
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Hate speech is quite simply speech that 1. Calls for the death or ending of a certain group. 2. Puts down a specific group of people based off of immutable characteristics.

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That is basically it

errant trellis
mighty timber
sweet kiln
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Saying we should kill the rich is hate speech

mighty timber
mighty timber
sweet kiln
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Princeps is awful for this

haughty sonnet
sweet kiln
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Then you ask and they say shutup

mighty timber
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That's potatolord problem

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I reported it and was basically told to fuck off

sweet kiln
drowsy pivot
sweet kiln
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By you I mean the mod team

mighty timber
haughty sonnet
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I'm not, you're turning them saying they think it isn't as bad as other things that happen in the server, as them calling for deaths

sweet kiln
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Because the team as a whole obviously are

mighty timber
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He then justified himself by saying calling for the death of a social class isn't hate speech

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potato problem is that this attitude never had any consequences but calling for the death of pedos did

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If pedo are not okay, so are rich people

sweet kiln
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Indeed

haughty sonnet
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Which again, all seems irrelevant to the server. We don't allow call to action for killing ppl

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So whether they think it's justified or not

sweet kiln
haughty sonnet
sweet kiln
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People said kill the rich all the damn time.

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Never any intervention

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And you can't define hate speech

haughty sonnet
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As said before there's been severe lack of moderation in the courthouse

mighty timber
sweet kiln
mighty timber
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let stay civil here

haughty sonnet
sweet kiln
mighty timber
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Potato's problem is that calling for the death of the rich=np
and calling for the death of pedo=warning

sweet kiln
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It's perfectly civil to say that the mod team has failed that particular area of the server.

haughty sonnet
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And it's still irrelevant as well, like I said, calls to action for violence or murder is not allowed

mighty timber
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So he's confused on what's hate speech here

haughty sonnet
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Also it's 1 am and I'm half asleep Kek

paper plazaBOT
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Above time (01:00 CEST) in your local time ·
mighty timber
mighty timber
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Take care, sleep well

haughty sonnet
tame cypress
haughty sonnet
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So that entire conversation is pretty moot

sweet kiln
mighty timber
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Like I said: their problem is that a lot of it went unpunished

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so they're pretty angry when those people that did these death threats go on about how it as okay anyway

errant trellis
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Definition may be moot but moderation would not be

haughty sonnet
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Courthouse has been under moderated as a whole and not gotten the attention it needs

mighty timber
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because they **feel **like it REALLY is okay there

haughty sonnet
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But ppl seem to not care about things I said a day ago

mighty timber
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I think everything that was needed to be said was said. You should go to sleep Pyro

haughty sonnet
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Because then I get told they're lame excuses and ignored

mighty timber
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Don't overwork yourself

haughty sonnet
drowsy pivot
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The solution appears to be to report the leftists and appeal to pyro if the reports are ignored until the leftists are banned and the mod team obeys Pyro

mighty timber
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Agree

haughty sonnet
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No, you don't need to report any side specifically at all

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Report rule breaks

errant trellis
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Report all sides

haughty sonnet
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There's nothing political party about it, it's da rulez

sweet kiln
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That is the way that is supposed to be indeed

haughty sonnet
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Always the us vs them mentalities lol, butt I guess it's the political section

sweet kiln
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Not the way it is though

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Leftists rarely report on each other

errant trellis
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Go ahead and rest pyro, we can figure out how to ensure sufficient moderation in courthouse later

sweet kiln
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Same with rightoids

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I am guilty of this

drowsy pivot
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I said what I said because the left does a great job of reporting things that can even be imagined to break the rules

sweet kiln
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Meanwhile right is like

haughty sonnet
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Almost sounds like politics is cults

sweet kiln
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Eh free speech

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Potato potato

sweet kiln
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Tribalism is rampant in the server

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And most places tbh

haughty sonnet
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Then again what we would call pretty extreme in politics is probably closer to moderate in the US

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So it definitely fuels the us vs them I'd assume

sweet kiln
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Eh, it works in the US.

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People call it the great sort

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Rightoids move to red states because they hate leftist policy

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Blue ballers move to blue states to avoid right policy

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It's why federalism and the states exist

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It's also why I think a server of this side would benefit from sepperate political chats

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Because it works, you go where you want

haughty sonnet
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I highly doubt it works, moving states is often not an option for ppl

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Anyhow not the place nor the time

sweet kiln
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For you maybe

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I think this the perfect place to discuss a reorganization of potato.

haughty sonnet
sweet kiln
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Better than battlefields

haughty sonnet
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Or maybe ppl could just behave

sweet kiln
haughty sonnet
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Not really

sweet kiln
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People are awful

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The more you get

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The worse it gets

haughty sonnet
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Adults are supposed to be able to be reasonable

sweet kiln
haughty sonnet
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Idk how ppl who think insults and yelling will win them any arguments

errant trellis
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Adults are worse than children

sweet kiln
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People can't get along with different people.

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It's just not possible

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Which is why federalism is genius

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One unifying ideal

mighty timber
sweet kiln
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Many different interpretations.

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So you go where you agree

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And nobody hates their neibor.

mighty timber
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though again a lot went unpunished

3222.PNG
haughty sonnet
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You say that as if all ppl can actually move if they don't like their state

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Moving is costly

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And you also need a job etc

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Anyhow, even more not relevant to the topic xD

sweet kiln
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Eh, it's a good model

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Move to where you can stand your neighbor

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Ergo

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Sepperate political chats

haughty sonnet
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I can stand my neighbours with different views

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ppl will always have different views and opinions

sweet kiln
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Correct

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But there is always a point where the difference is to great

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Even for you

haughty sonnet
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Sure, still doesn't mean you have to be a dick to said person

sweet kiln
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Such becomes obvious when a given organization becomes a certain size.

sweet kiln
haughty sonnet
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Anyway, not happening we're not going to actively create echo Chambers

mighty timber
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ESPECIALLY those past two years

haughty sonnet
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That has less to do with politics and more to do with ppl being shitty and they should get punished for that

sweet kiln
mighty timber
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I disagree

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battlefield are true

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the reality

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echo chambers are not

sweet kiln
haughty sonnet
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If you want an echo chamber go to your Facebook feed, fb does a great job at feeding you what you want to see

mighty timber
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problem is that it will be a farleft echo chamber

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which he doesn't want

sweet kiln
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It's why the rules are applied unequally.

mighty timber
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potato I think it's more a question of lack of moderation

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AND bias from SOME mods

sweet kiln
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Biased moderation feels justified in censoring their opposing side.

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Which is why I feel no remorse for calling the lot of you incompetent and biased.

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Because quite simply

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The evidence says you are

haughty sonnet
sweet kiln
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I do not care if the lot of you think I'm a prick

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So be it

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Because it does add to the conversation

haughty sonnet
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Also if you believe that 100% why are you even here.

sweet kiln
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I genuinely wished most of you were replaced by people who can do the job. Or that you would hire help.

azure forge
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Then apply

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You seem to think you can do better, so put up, brosef.

sweet kiln
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I have not the time

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Othwrwise

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I would

haughty sonnet
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We can't hire anyone, unless you plan to give us budget.

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Because that's what some seem to think, that this is our full time paid job, and not something we spend our free (and even not-so-free) time doing

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But we are also working on getting more mods yes.

mighty timber
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Potato your attitude isn't doing any good right now

haughty sonnet
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I feel like most of what he has been saying hasn't. I must admit for a while he seemed to be able to have a proper discussion.

mighty timber
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He did brought some good points before you arrived

ornate merlin
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Can I get a clear definition on what the pain points are currently? There is a lot going on in this thread and I suspect keeping the eye on the ball would be helpful. Seems to me that from the staff perspective one issue they see is that problematic posts are not being reported consistently. It also seems to me that the userbase is really bothered by either actual, or at least perceived bias in enforcement of the rules.

mighty timber
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You're right about the mods view of the problem. The userbase has a problem with all the problematic posts of a certain political side not getting any punishment in their opinion (I agree that they get far less than the others but maybe it's a coincidence)

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What happened was that someone sort of tried to say making death threats to rich people wasn't hate speech

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That or they weren't able to explain themselves well multiple time

ornate merlin
mighty timber
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let me find it

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starts here: #979224810817208320 message

Point explanation: #979224810817208320 message

ornate merlin
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Seems to me the staff needs to define what kind of content, regardless of what the intent was, is welcome on the server.

mighty timber
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The staff refused to define hate speech since it "wasn't necessary"

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that enraged people more

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I sometime seriously wonder if I'm the only one with basic diplomatic knowledgekek

ornate merlin
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I am having a genuinely hard time understanding the culture of this server... to me this has nothing to do with coming up with a definition of hate speech, but instead with defining what is and is not welcome on the server. Am I over simplifying this?

mighty timber
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The people are angry because someone got warned for saying they hate pedophiles while you had multiple people calling for the death of a social class

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So people want to know what's hate speech to the mods

ornate merlin
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does hate speech need a definition? or does this server need a blanket "calling for people's death, even in the context of a joke, is not ok" rule?

mighty timber
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People don't trust the mods and think they're politically biased which had conflict

mighty timber
ornate merlin
azure forge
ornate merlin
# azure forge Pyro said as much, then said about lack of moderation.

Ok, so, this server has a report system. If I am remembering correctly pyro said not everyone was using it, so stuff would be missed. There is also now this statement that perhaps there are not enough moderators. Does the staff think more moderators are needed? Does the userbase want more moderators, or different kinds of moderation than what is being executed? Is it both? Not trying to assume one side is right or wrong here, just trying to poke at both side cautiously in hopes of helping everyone coming to a better understanding of the problem in hopes of asking the right questions to seek a good solution.

mighty timber
ornate merlin
mighty timber
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they lack the ressources for more moderators

ornate merlin
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If the staff thinks it is relevant to this conversation, could one of them let us know A) do they have a desire for more staff to share responsibility with and if so, B) what has been the hurdle to getting more staff? If this was answered already I am sorry I missed it.

mighty timber
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I can find some info give me a minute

sweet kiln
mighty timber
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#979224810817208320 message

sweet kiln
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But they lable what they don't want as hate speech

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Or problematic

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They don't say it like it is

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
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And yes I will admit I get a wee bit confrontational.

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But I genuinely do believe if one of the moderators refuse to say what actually constitutes hate speech they should be removed.

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Because then the cat is out of the bag

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Then you know they leave the definition open intentionally

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Such things are ripe for abuse

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As seen in the evidence of preferred treatment for a certain political viewpoint as opposed to others.

mighty timber
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We could at least agree on death threats that I agree

sweet kiln
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Yep

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I defined it quite clearly earlier, they refuse to acknowledge and instead say the individual decides what hate speech is

ornate merlin
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Potato, I respect your take here, but I also respectfully think the way you are communicating your take is not helping to progress the conversation to a solution. Defining hate speech is genuinely beyond the perview of a discord server, especially when that can change based on context or even the nation you are in. What is more realistic is for the server have to have A) consistent rules with B) consistent guidelines on how those rules are enforced.

mighty timber
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the rules are "no hate speech"

sweet kiln
mighty timber
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He's asking what does constitute hate speech

sweet kiln
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Or more specifically

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
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Won't define it.

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Yes

mighty timber
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yes

ornate merlin
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If that is “the rule” you cannot not define that, especially on an intentional server

mighty timber
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While I think potato attitude isn't the best, his anger is rightful

sweet kiln
ornate merlin
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I have multiple people from central Europe on my server, so I wrote rules that communicated clearly to them what the rules were because I knew their cultural norms were different than mine.

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I imagine that is even more important on this server

sweet kiln
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There has to be an objective standard in rulemaking

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It's why laws are the way that they are.

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And it's why here treatment is unequal and punitive actions are taken without notice or legitimate reason

ornate merlin
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I better understand the point you are driving at now PotatoLord

sweet kiln
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The death of potato memes is only one symptom of a larger contagion

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That being unequal treatment under the rules based off of political and ideological biases

mighty timber
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difference between potato and me is that I'm more diplomatic and maybe more "naive"

ornate merlin
mighty timber
sweet kiln
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I would be fine if the server were authoritarian in nature. If only it were clearly communicated and understood.

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
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And I am naturally generally considered right wing

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
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So to me the bias seems obvious, regardless of what the mods say.

sweet kiln
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Likely because they would be called a thin skinned loser by a certain one called princeps.

mighty timber
sweet kiln
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Who primarily seems to handle meme and potato chats.

mighty timber
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you had post calling out the death of others that got nothing

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BUT IDK if it's due to not noticing it or bias

sweet kiln
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It can't be not noticing

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Given the speed at which right posts were put down.

mighty timber
sweet kiln
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Maybe I am a pessimist

mighty timber
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but anyway: I doubt all the mods are like that

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Andrew and Cookie sound nice

sweet kiln
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Maybe the inactive ones.

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Are nice

mighty timber
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Pyro sounds not too bad

ornate merlin
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Ok, so let’s assume you are right in your assertion that the staff has a bias that is negatively impacting the community. I think it would be fair for the community to take some responsibility for not reporting as often as they should.

mighty timber
sweet kiln
mighty timber
#

and now I'm blocked for thirty days from courthouse

sweet kiln
#

There is no incentive to report leftists

#

In fact it is discouraged

#

Opposite for right wingers

#

If I report a thing I would likely get called a child by the active users

#

Especially princeps

#

Who is awful when it comes to this sort of thing

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

Which is why I will remain in my position

#

Only evidence, not words will convince me that mods are not to blame

mighty timber
#

and I admitted I was in the wrong?

sweet kiln
#

No consequences for them

ornate merlin
mighty timber
#

I only did it once after that person strawmaned me and Wol for more than two hours

sweet kiln
#

And yeah, I understand that I am confrontational. I understand that I can be called a prick sometimes

mighty timber
#

I was blocked for "inciting violence and toxicity" or something

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

But I won't stop, because I am correct from my perspective. I have yet to see sufficient evidence to sway me.

#

Persistence pays off

mighty timber
#

Potato has reasons but some just wanted to create chaos

sweet kiln
#

Oh for sure

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

Always the case with disagreements like this.

mighty timber
#

no

#

no example either

sweet kiln
#

Naturally

mighty timber
#

except one that was just wrong. Like, literally wrong

sweet kiln
#

Wol gets the same treatment

mighty timber
#

because you can look and I'm polite the whole way

ornate merlin
#
  • I am confused *
#

This does not match anything I know about effective moderation.

mighty timber
#

I also was accused of inciting bullying since five months

#

I've only been there since march

sweet kiln
#

U know it's funny

mighty timber
#

it's just that the most actives are....abusive in some areas

sweet kiln
#

I ask a simple question why a post is removed.

#

Silence

#

Pissed I ask it again

#

Silence

#

Third time

#

Silence

#

Then the bastards jail me for posting in the wrong chat

#

Yes I don't say nice things

ornate merlin
#

So here is what is bugging me, @mighty timber If I assume you did do what the mods said you did, and revoked privileges because of that infraction, I would expect they would send you something. to show you the behavior so you can correct it in the future. I am concerned that a prominent member like yourself was not extended that courtesy.

#

Cause you work directly with Shad right?

mighty timber
#

Just said it was my "general attitude" and not giving particular messages

mighty timber
sweet kiln
#

But I am justified so why would I?

mighty timber
#

Damn, can I have his number then?

sweet kiln
#

Instead of answering directly I get jailed

ornate merlin
# mighty timber I do?

Oh, I thought your profile picture was indicating you were one of the game knights guys lol

mighty timber
#

I just try to bring some form of diplomacy in disputes and so I always end up being a mediator

mighty timber
ornate merlin
mighty timber
#

no, I just thought this picture of Nathan was funny

sweet kiln
#

And I know the ticket would be useless because i would have no support from others and like all decisions it would be made behind closed doors.

mighty timber
#

I have to admit I have an attitude similar to Nathan in being more polite

sweet kiln
#

I'm more like the other guy

#

Ngl

mighty timber
#

Oz

sweet kiln
#

Oz

ornate merlin
mighty timber
#

Ironically I'm more like Shad in attitude outside Discord

ornate merlin
#

Assuming that you two are accurately representing your experiences, I am concerned by what you are telling me.

mighty timber
#

I know others have the same

#

A guy named Ness got the same treatment

sweet kiln
#

More than enough text was used that could have offered an explanation.

#

And the gall of that person

#

Tell me to follow orders

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

As if you are anything more than a low ranking discord mod.

#

It was months ago

#

I actually argued my way out of the jail time

#

Another mod let me out

mighty timber
sweet kiln
#

The conditions being that I had to keep quiet.

mighty timber
#

It sort of started this whole thing

ornate merlin
#

What is this? A discord server for a court room?

sweet kiln
#

They said they would handle princeps on their own

violet tundra
#

Are you done lying to people yet?

sweet kiln
#

Not lying

violet tundra
#

You WERE answered

sweet kiln
#

5 posts down

#

Only after I asked like 3 times

violet tundra
#

Several mods have called you out on this lie at this point

sweet kiln
#

And the answer was insufficient.

#

Anyway, I am not having a conversation with you of all people

mighty timber
#

screenshot then?

sweet kiln
#

The greatest offender

#

I don't have them

#

It was months ago

violet tundra
#

And you were warned and muted for making a scene, after I had told you not to post an epilepsy risk

sweet kiln
#

Things were deleted

mighty timber
#

wdym you don't have them?

mighty timber
mighty timber
violet tundra
sweet kiln
#

I posted this

#

Space marine gif

mighty timber
#

THAT?

#

that's just a gif

sweet kiln
#

Yeag

#

Got me jailed

violet tundra
#

And it's still rapid flashing

violet tundra
mighty timber
#

There's rules for that?

sweet kiln
#

No

violet tundra
#

What got you jailed was the scene you made

#

Stop lying to folks

sweet kiln
#

Not lying

violet tundra
#

You went on a screaming fit and got toxic

mighty timber
violet tundra
#

That is why you were warned and muted

sweet kiln
#

Yeah show them

mighty timber
violet tundra
#

!warns @sweet kiln

paper plazaBOT
#
Warnings - User : 398814145409187850

Total : 7

⠀

#61790677: <t:1651469592:f> - By: Princeps Astrorum#0777 (205387163439726592)
Reason: refusal to comply with mod orders and causing a scene

logs: link

#50961354: <t:1639510125:f> - By: Aelion824#7766 (414608610715238401)
Reason: (Rules 2.4 through 2.6 - Continuing to criticize moderation in general chat despite multiple warns to use #reports )

logs: link

#50961169: <t:1639509977:f> - By: Aelion824#7766 (414608610715238401)
Reason: (Rule 2.5 & 2.6 - Direct refusing a moderator verbal warn to use #reports , then continuing to complain about moderation in general chat.)

logs: link

⠀

#43059831: <t:1631560595:f> - By: Escudo#0052 (666071999721766913)
Reason: rule 1.1 and rule D2: Uncivil behavior in the Courthouse category.

logs: link

#42771937: <t:1630979214:f> - By: Escudo#0052 (666071999721766913)
Reason: NSFW meme.

logs: link

#32229037: <t:1616421230:f> - By: SaylemVFM#6994 (302643472563830785)
Reason: Violation of Discord ToS. Posting a gif of the entire Phantom Menace Star Wars movie.

logs: link

Page 1 ·
mighty timber
#

Which one is the good one?

sweet kiln
#

Top

mighty timber
#

ok

violet tundra
#

I'd like to point out half your warns are for this exact issue

mighty timber
violet tundra
#

You go raging through the chat instead keeping a cool head and listening

mighty timber
#

Would make sense considering what I've seen

#

Can I have another link? That one doesn't work

azure forge
#

Search princeps mentioning potatolord then find the may second warn.

mighty timber
#

What I see right now is potato being like "wtf is my meme?!?!?!" and getting this answer

unknown.png
#

Did I missed something?

#

Though Potato did posted multiple "where mah meme". And in not in a "please could I know where my beautiful meme went?"

azure forge
#

Flashing gifs have been deleted here since i came here, probably before that. In case some one does have epilepsy. Personally i figure its just a common courtesy not to post those gifs. Id hate to cause someone to have a seizure.

mighty timber
#

TBH I didn't knew about that. Is it written somewhere?

ornate merlin
mighty timber
#

thanks for the link btw

azure forge
#

Not sure. But common decency like that shouldnt need to be specified, imo.

mighty timber
#

well... I see memes like that posted all the time so I neve knew it would have a chance of causing seizure

mighty timber
ornate merlin
#

I am not seeing anything in these screenshots to suggest why the staff member in question came down so hot on potato. Yeah potato is being a jerk, but that is a hot reply from a staff member.

#

Just my take, I am happy to be wrong if there is context I am missing. And in fairness we are not seeing/experiencing this in the moment.

azure forge
#

It looks like theres deleted stuff in there

mighty timber
#

Only the meme as far as it seems

azure forge
#

He was warned for refusal to comply.

#

Not the gif or meme itself.

mighty timber
#

yeah, and he did refused to comply

#

but does it deserve that level of overreaction?

#

he gets told to shut the f up right from the start

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

Such is the problem

#

Mods are free to delete whatever they see fit.

#

They delete anything that makes them look bad and leave everything else.

#

It is why I do not trust a thing they say

#

Only evidence

mighty timber
#

well, looks more about seizure than your take

sweet kiln
#

Eh, instead of simply being told to take down a thing

#

I get harassd

#

It pissed me off naturally

#

I will freely admit my reactions may have been motivated by anger.

azure forge
sweet kiln
#

But that is no excuse.

sweet kiln
mighty timber
sweet kiln
#

Follow your oeders

#

Shut up like a good peasent

azure forge
#

No different than you towards the mods dude.

sweet kiln
#

Yeah, pass

#

My attitude Is directly proportional to that of the mods.

#

I'm just on the wrong side.

mighty timber
ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

As I said, a simple request to take a thing down will be met with compliance

#

Presume to give orders and I will actively do the opposite

#

Because you have no authority to do that, you are discord mods

#

Not kings

#

Not queens

#

Not my master, nor even my superior

#

You make requests

#

You don't give orders

ornate merlin
# sweet kiln Not my master, nor even my superior

Be aware this is the staff’s server by definition; you are in their kingdom. However to your point a wise king or queen considers how their attitude shapes the attitude of those they supposedly lead.

sweet kiln
#

And quietly deleting a thing is asinine

mighty timber
#

I also add that if he didn't insisted he would've never known why

sweet kiln
ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

They are mere stewards.

#

Anyway, this is my position

#

Treat me and others with respect

#

You will be met in kind

#

Do the opposite

#

Be met with the opposite

#

That is what made me angry

#

I wish they would have posted the conversation in jail

#

That was even more interesting

#

I'm an american

#

Kings and I disagree on a fundamental level

#

I also think that the ticket system is a joke

#

You go in front of people who are inclined to support their own and expect to make a change?

#

It is kind of like walking into court alone with only the judge to argue that the judges sister committed fraud.

#

Pointless, painful, and time consuming.

#

It's why I tend to ask things in public chats.

#

So what if I make a scene? Are people that thin skinned that a question or judgement of a discord mod would hurt them?

mighty timber
sweet kiln
#

Sure I am baroque

#

But better to be baroque than accomplish nothing

#

Better to make people angry and have the server change for the better

ornate merlin
# violet tundra Are you done lying to people yet?

With all due respect to your position in the community. I don’t think it is fair to say potato lord was lying. He was sharing his perspective, he shared it “colorfully”, he shared a simplified version of it, he did not share the whole context, but he did not lie. I am not trying to start something with you, but I do want to be clear about how I see things and express that to you in hopes that you can better understand how the community you are moderating is perceiving things. The screenshots beeruclues shared do show you coming in really hot on potato. Your message to him did carry a hint of abusive behavior. It is hard to moderate abuse in the community if you the moderator model that for your community. I said it earlier I will say it again, in fairness to you, I wasn’t there, I may not have the full context. What I can say is if a staff member of one of my servers posted that message in any context, I would demote them from staff and immediately DM them asking them for an explanation for their behavior. You do not owe me an explanation, I am not asking for one. I am just trying to tell you what I see.

sweet kiln
#

Arguing to mods behind closed doors is pointless

#

I have an idea

#

This is not a joke

#

This is not a mad

#

This is a legit thing that would make the server better

#

An actual court system

#

So we have tickets all the time right? Tickets that accomplish nothing

#

Tickets like mine

#

Or beers

#

What if we instead of going in front of a firing squad get 8 non involved members of the server to weigh in.

#

To make the judgement instead of some moderator with a complex or bias.

#

I think that might build a little trust

errant trellis
#

Imma little hesitant but lets flesh it out

#

How would the members be chosen?

sweet kiln
#

Must not be involved in any way in the situation

#

Must be somewhat active

errant trellis
#

That is 2 criteria, but who does the choosing?

sweet kiln
#

Must not be chosen by mods

ornate merlin
#

What is the point of staff on the sever if they cannot be trusted to both model and enforce community guidelines? Your solution is too complicated, the staff already present merely need to do what they are supposed to do already. To say again, model and enforce.

sweet kiln
#

Random selection

#

Randomly select people who are normally active but were offline at the time of the thing

errant trellis
#

How about a mod or two and 2 or 3 uninvolved members?

sweet kiln
#

No mods

#

7 uninvolved members

#

the mod and the person with issue argue

#

cases are made

#

uninvolved members decide

ornate merlin
errant trellis
#

7 people talking at once can be pretty hard to keep up with

sweet kiln
#

true

#

but voice exists

#

like in a game I have helped coordinate 10 or more

#

its not that hard

ornate merlin
#

It’s a discord server… if this is the length you will go to on a discord server to get your legal satisfaction…. You need to get a hobby or something.

sweet kiln
#

true enough

#

but its better than having garbage biased moderators

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

like can you really expect mods to act objectively when another mod is at fault? in a closed chat with no other input but you?

ornate merlin
#

It also is making it really hard for me to defend you in good conscience

sweet kiln
#

I mean fair enough

#

but I call it as I see it

#

and I see bias

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

and bias is pretty garbage

ornate merlin
#

Is the goal to yell your feelings out, or inspire positive change?

sweet kiln
#

positive change

ornate merlin
#

Cause you sound more like you wanna yell your feelings out to me.

sweet kiln
#

obviously

#

and I have absolutely nothing to say that is good about the mod team

errant trellis
#

The jury proposal would be much more complicated than the current system and hard to get people behind, could the current system be altered, such as a different method for choosing mods?

sweet kiln
#

I have not had one

#

not one

#

not a single positive interaction with a mod

ornate merlin
# sweet kiln positive change

Then I strongly encourage you to package your criticisms in a way that help the mod team understand your perspective and give them actionable advice. Worst case scenario it makes you look reasonable, best case scenario it causes the change you want to see.

sweet kiln
#

So how can I, in good conscious say anything positive about the mod team? I will not lie.

ornate merlin
#

I did not say “say something positive” i said “helpful”

sweet kiln
#

like I have been here close to 5 years now

#

no good moderation at all

#

in that span of time

#

One of the first discords I joined

#

back when shad was small potatoes

ornate merlin
#

Helpful communication lays out what you are thinking, feeling, or perceiving, finds a good way to package that so the other party will hear it, shares criticisms with evidence, and acknowledges challenges the person may have faced, and makes a request for action to help improve things or resolve the problem.

sweet kiln
#

So I genuinely want the server to be better

#

And the only way I can see that happening is either the removal of some of the moderators or some way to hold them accountable

#

Take princeps

ornate merlin
#

Ok, if you feel that way, think about the best way to communicate that, provide evidence for your claims when you can (use that search feature!) lay out actionable ideas on how the moderation team can help address your problems and concerns, let them know the ways you expect those ideas will impact the community and themselves.

sweet kiln
#

as far as I am concerned, her every mod action actively makes the server worse. Her deletion of things behind your back makes it hard to trust the mod team. Her lack of tact makes her incredibly easy to despise. Ironically she is also the most active of the team, especially in memes and disputatio

ornate merlin
#

Be humble about the fact that you don’t know everything, don’t know the whole picture, but be assertive if you feel wronged, and let them know you want to reach resolution rather than remain antagonistic

sweet kiln
#

I heard they would deal with princeps internally after our scuff over the gif

#

nothing happened

#

not a damn thing

#

they said oh if you stop talking in the wrong chat and drop it we will handle it

#

nothing happened

#

no change

#

no admission of guilt or poor actions

#

she just doubled down

#

and calls me a liar

violet tundra
sweet kiln
#

I made 1 mistake

#

your poor impression and memorable way of doing things made me think I was always warned by you.

#

That is not a lie

#

that is you being noticeably toxic.

violet tundra
#

Shouldn't go around spreading mod hate on false information

sweet kiln
#

I havent posted 1 thing in this chat about that

#

nothing about my warn history at all

#

and my early warns were about stuff that I freely admit I did wrong

violet tundra
#

Except you were lying and telling people I warned you over a gif

#

Which isn't true at all

sweet kiln
#

it started over a gif

violet tundra
#

I warned you for the little hissy fit you threw afterwards

sweet kiln
#

you warned me over my asking you why you deleted it

#

This is why I have no trust in our mods

violet tundra
#

No I warned you for making a scene that you admitted that you knew not to throw.

sweet kiln
#

I knew not to throw it, correct

#

I also knew it was justified

#

and I stand by that assertion

violet tundra
#

You knew the proper measures to take and chose to instead scream and disrupt a channel

sweet kiln
#

better to stir up anger against mods and accomplish something than go through the proper channels and accomplish nothing.

ornate merlin
sweet kiln
#

better to make my opinion known than hash it out behind closed doors.

violet tundra
#

Except you didn't accomplish anything

sweet kiln
#

True

#

but there was a higher chance of doing so than in the pointless system that is tickets

violet tundra
#

Tickets aren't a pointless system

sweet kiln
#

they accomplish nothing

#

you cant be held accountable there

#

so yes

#

they are pointless

#

as I said before

#

I was told the situation would be handled if I said nothing more in other channels

#

I said ok

#

what has changed?

violet tundra
sweet kiln
#

Here is how I see it.

#

If I post in tickets about things there is no chance of any actual change occuring

#

If I post somewhere else enough people can say things to force actual change.

#

yes I am boroque

#

yes I present in a colorful way

#

its one of my flaws

#

But its better than accomplishing nothing behind closed doors in a room with 1 or 2 other mods who will almost always side with the mod at fault. Even when it was said that the problem will be handled nothing changed

#

nothing whatsoever

sweet kiln
ornate merlin
#

I think there is a fundamental breakdown of the culture in this server, both mods to users and users to mods.

chrome heron
#

@sweet kiln
Mate look
I understand that you don't like prınceps and feel you have been wronged
But you keep on bringing up these old things to complain in the wrong channel
Along with twisting facts multiple times to make the mods seem like evil overlords
And your behavior and attitude isn't helping your case either

#

At this point you are very close to getting yourself banned from the server, this is just a friendly warning, just be careful

mighty timber
#

I'm not defending is attitude but that is just going to push him to his limit

#

He'll take that as "shut up and drink the tyranny"

azure forge
ornate merlin
#

I like wise am not defending Potato’s attitude. Since I rejoined this conversation last night, now two moderators have joined this conversation, yet when they join the conversation it is merely to accuse Potato of lying (whether directly or indirectly). I said it to Princeps in a message above, I will say it again, to say he is lying is to care more about the hard facts than to care about the perception of how rules were enforced in the past. Princep’s message to potato about the gif is needlessly hot. I agree based on the screenshot that Potato was not warned for the gif but his attitude after the fact. However, it sure looks to me like Princeps decided to remind potato who had the power in a way that is a little gross. Especially when you consider that after I looked over the rules again last night, there is nothing about potentially epilepsy risk GIFs. You can say that should be common sense, but it may not be given other people’s context. If I were potato I probably would have gotten a little heated if a moderator talked to me like that as well. I am not defending how potato behaved, merely expressing a shared understanding of why he might have behaved the way he did. At this point I get that this is fairly far afield of the main topic of this thread, but I am not sure where else to put this since the conversation is happening here and it is related to how the broader community seems to feel regarding moderation on this server, as well as how that connection to the political meme channel and the dispute channels.

violet tundra
#

We have caught potato multiple times lying about his various warnings here in these already volatile threads to spread mod hate. (Against Discord's community guidelines btw) so yes, we are calling him out for the 3rd time for trying to rile folks up with disingenuous information that is quickly debunked

#

If he were being honest it'd be one thing, but he he trying to manipulate an already angry group of the community with continued lies

#

Enough people have already gotten banned due to their behavior here, we are just trying to stop more from being swayed into doing something stupid

ornate merlin
# violet tundra We have caught potato multiple times lying about his various warnings here in th...

That doesn’t actually address my concern. I have not seen what has or has not happened elsewhere on the server or in the past. I am genuinely trying to communicate to you that my concern has nothing to do with what potato has or has not done, that merely brought what I see as an issue now to my attention. My concern is how you addressed him. You are a moderator, and I have no idea how moderators are chosen on this server, but on my servers moderators were chosen less for their ability to moderate and more for their ability to model decent behavior that conforms to server rules. When you told potato to “learn to accept a little mercy” in regards to the epilepsy risk gif, and paired that with the penguin gif, that looks extremely aggressive. If I were a fellow moderator of yours I would ask you how you thought your message to potato modeled rule “1.1”? And I get the inherent flaw in litigating messages that old, but clearly that message had a really big impact on potato if he is still taking about it this far removed from when you originally sent it to him. And while I believe I see the intent of that message from back in February, I am worried that message said more than the sum of its parts. Is that a fair concern for me to express? If you genuinely think this is not a fair concern I will let this go.

sweet kiln
sweet kiln
sweet kiln
violet tundra
sweet kiln
#

I only do this because I do care about the server. There needs to be some way to either hold moderators accountable beyond those useless tickets which keep things locked behind closed doors. Or the current moderation needs to change.

violet tundra
#

Considering you weren't fairly doing anything as we continued to find you lying and could easily prove it

sweet kiln
violet tundra
#

This is the 3rd time we've caught you lying to try to rile/manipulate an already volatile group

sweet kiln
#

I wasn't lying

#

That was accepted after they saw the post

violet tundra
#

That does fall under those guidelines

sweet kiln
#

They said I wasn't lying

#

And I was not

violet tundra
#

You were lying, multiple times

sweet kiln
#

Nope

#

Not here

#

You are clearly trying to threaten me

violet tundra
#

From "she warned me 4 times" to "i was muted for a gif"

sweet kiln
#

Look at de rule

sweet kiln
#

Anyway, that is the past

#

You clearly just want me gone

violet tundra
#

Except no again you werent

sweet kiln
#

Therefore you are not worth talking to

#

Goodbye

violet tundra
#

You were warned for throwing a tantrum after being told why

tame cypress
#

people stop arguing with mods. give your thoughts, discuss and if they don't accept your proposition move on. not much done by drama.RollSafe

rustic horizon
mighty timber
#

Here for the spectacle?

sour storm
# tame cypress people stop arguing with mods. give your thoughts, discuss and if they don't acc...

That is a rather pessimistic and unconstructive aproach

Aren’t these threads meant for discussions about this server so argueing is very valid.
While being insulting etc of course is bad making civil arguments is generally good.

The bad part is that the mods seemingly don’t want to engage at all even If you keep it civil it seems to me that they stay on the position of nope your fault/stop complaining

tame cypress
#

from my experience mods are quite reasonable and patient with all the shit they have to deal with

mighty timber
#

Depends on which, but Mort is right

tame cypress
#

my approach is not pessimistic, it allows discussion and change, but it doesn't allow spoilt whining until baby gets what she wants

mighty timber
#

So technically you're sort of both right

sour storm
tame cypress
#

they are just humans and can be same wrong and stubborn as everybody else, but you have no mechanism to change their mind

#

see them as internet judges and obey the LAW

sour storm
mighty timber
tame cypress
sour storm
sour storm
tame cypress
sour storm
tame cypress
sour storm
tame cypress
#

yeah, it's all consistent

mighty timber
#

Mort point is if the mods say no, there's no point in arguing more

tame cypress
mighty timber
#

Which I would like if he applied that to another subjectkek

tame cypress
mighty timber
#

heh, ignore us Shark. We're trolling each other

sour storm
# tame cypress

So in one instance you say don’t argue I say arguments are good then you say yes but whining isn’t I say this isn’t whining and now argueing is bad again

sour storm
tame cypress
#
  1. there is no seven! shush and go clean your room! no more arguing
sour storm
tame cypress
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this is why I would never be good mod. it's like talking to a wall. unable to make conversation just semantically attacking my words. ffs why are internet people like that?

mighty timber
tame cypress
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I'd mute him so hard he wouldn't even be able to buy twinkies for a month

mighty timber
tame cypress
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I like he listened to my advice kek

unknown.png
rustic horizon
#

Mortadella, the Jordan Peterson of the Shadiverse?AsThink

sour storm
# tame cypress let me paint that for you: 1. present issue 2. mods reply 3. discuss with mods 4...

It’s more like:

  1. there is an issue
  2. mods make a „solution“ with little to no previous communication
  3. people dislike the „solution“
  4. people and mods argue
  5. mods seem pretty stubborn and are unwilling to have a proper discussion (not all mods are like that but it does feel like the moderation as a whole doesn’t want to work with the community)
  6. people call out this bad interaction
  7. „shut up and obey the law“
haughty sonnet
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It's very disappointing to hear the "unwilling to have a proper discussion" when this post clearly shows how much time I've invested in trying to have proper conversations here.

sour storm
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I don’t want to create hostilities between the mods and the community I try to be friendly with the mods as much as possible and follow their rules

sour storm
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Yeah I think I need to reread parts of the chat again

haughty sonnet
sour storm
rustic horizon
haughty sonnet
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While I fully understand that some like the place and might be upset about it being closed for a while, Most of the things that have been said to us or about us has definitely been in bad faith, all the way up to straight up lies about past moderation action.

In a way I can understand taking things somewhat in bad faith if you truly believe it was unwarranted, but that still doesn't give anyone the right to be rude, demanding, or entitled.

Anyone who has been paying attention for the past years will know that I approve of and even encourage discussing things, as long as we can all remain respectful. And no, just because I or anyone disagrees doesn't mean we don't listen or don't invest time or don't care.

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Or complaining and refusing to elaborate because "it won't matter anyways" and we "won't change anything" etc is also not helpful, that just yelling into the void that 'x did something wrong' without telling who x is and what they did, and comes over as trying to villainise ppl (the staff team in this case) without even a shred of willingness to help improve things

rustic horizon
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I've had my say and reasonable discussion, now the uhhh... "interesting" takes about this situation are my entertainment _popcorn

There are certain mods and mod actions I do take issue with but the moderation team as a whole seems fairly chill

sour storm
# haughty sonnet While I fully understand that some like the place and might be upset about it be...

I agree many were rather rude in regards to the topic

I personally only deem the explanations not sufficient to explain a ban due to better solutions being there.

I did not intent to personally attack you it is just that the most common away I remember the discussions were like:
-Why potatoe gone?

  • because you can’t behave
  • it were only some and one could use other ways of moderation before nuking it.
    -shut up and you get it back/ this would be too hard.

This then lead to people creating conspiracy theories like „All mods bad unfunny leftists“ / „mods scared of discord“

sour storm
haughty sonnet
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And if there's interesting ideas we should focus on those rather than them being spammed away by ppl who only want to complain but not help improve the server

sour storm
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I can only agree

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So what about kind of potatoe banning people, only removing them from potatoe memes (so less then a full ban but more then a warn or mute) and generally trying to cast out the continuesly trouble making people from potatoe memes.

azure forge
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They do, when its warranted. However what it seems like is that theres been enough posting of stuff that breaks rules, from everyone in there that this is a tempirary measure while they rework how it is, and how it will work going forward.

ornate merlin
haughty sonnet
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There's been so much bs in between that it's hard to tell really.

Here is a non-comprehensive list of things that need to happen;

Courthouse needs more mods checking on it to be able to catch more things; This would reduce the load on the few mods who actually try and deal with all the courthouse stuff, and this would also create more 'balanced' enforcement, even with a lack of reports.

But on the users end there also just needs to be reports if they see something against the rules, rather than using it as a shield that "x did something worse 3 weeks ago". I don't really consider it our fault if one group of ppl is more likely to report rulebreaks than another. We might not always be as quick as we might want with the tickets, but we will get to it, and you can always poke us if it's taking long with no reaction.

We do already try to just remove courthouse from people rather than banning them outright, but this has proven to usually not be very effective (most people either leave, or go on a rampage), but it's still something we'll at least try to use yes.

I think it's also important to note that just because we don't fully agree with you, that these conversations do not impact anything indirectly. And it definitely doesn't mean that we don't care or don't listen to what you all have to say.

I also think that upon reopening we should make it very clear that this temporary closing was a strong warning when we reopen it. Any of courthouse is a privilege, an extra we try and offer (and invest a lot of time in to), but it's not the core of the server, even if some use it purely for this category.

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If you have any specific real suggestion you want to reply to I'll take a look at that, but I've been scrolling up for a while and it's hard to find stuff

ornate merlin
haughty sonnet
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Yeah we need a starting point, not a magical solution, because those don't exist 😛

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Issue is that when I say we need more moderation there we get made fun of and told that's not a solution "herpaderp we promise more moderation haha" kinda reactions Kek

ornate merlin
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Does the staff here have a “guidelines of engagement” for how they interact with members, and I mean beyond enforcing rules? For example, if a member is getting rude try DM’ing them and asking why they feel the need to behave that way?

If you do have that, does it reflect current standards? If you don’t, it might be worth having it.

ornate merlin
haughty sonnet
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And you also have to understand that some mods just do not want to moderate (or even be in) the political chats, if you think that's completely un-understandable, then you need to rethink the way you think about mods, in the end they're not employees, they do this for free, and I appreciate them for the channels they do invest a lot of time in, no single user/mod uses all the channels equally.
It's actually not as easy as some might think to increase mod interaction in those channels.

However, reports will make us look, even those who don't look at that specific channel, reports can truly help.

ornate merlin
ornate merlin
haughty sonnet
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We don't really do DMing users any more due to some issues that arose. But we can create tickets when we need to have a chat with someone

copper crane
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stupid destopdiscord

ornate merlin
haughty sonnet
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And we also aren't babysitters, while we do want to work together with people, if people indicate they don't want to improve their behaviour to be in line with the server rules, that's very different from someone who shows improvement and talks properly with us

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"I thought x was allowed because xyz, but if you say this isn't allowed because xyz then I'll try to keep that in mind" is very different to attacking us. I do understand that ppl might be upset, but still, I feel like most ppl dig themselves bigger holes when they get warnings. Plenty of ppl manage to turn even a verbal warning into a mute.

Although a note on those, verbal warns shouldn't even exist to begin with, we bot warn :p

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And yes we did have to send a bigger signal, which the closing of potato memes was

ornate merlin
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When you explain it in this way I follow more.

true token
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Hurry up and add it back I want to see more people getting mad over pictures.

maiden girderBOT
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@true token has just advanced to level 2.

cunning garnet
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i mean if it’s towards the rich…

mighty timber
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/s or not?

tawdry void
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Hello everybody, don't mind me too much since I don't feel legitimate about telling my point of view about potato memes or mods in general. I'm just too new in the server for that. I just wanted to thank Beercules and Alex for trying to have a reasonable discussion with mods and users (like Potatolord) who are quite heated by this thread, as far as I see. Moreover, I have very experience of this server and am not very good in English, so I find it good that people manage to put words on my impressions concerning memes channels (especially the fact I've seen right-leaning memes more often taken down than left equivalent memes, I might be biased since I find right memes more funny, but I don't feel like I'm 100% wrong according to what other users seems to have experienced according to what they tell here.) I won't judge mods because of how new I am to the server, but I agree with Alex about the quite disproportionate nature of Princep's reaction to Potatolord's memes (according to the screenshot, I wasn't there at this time and thus probably don't know the whole context).

mighty timber
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my pleasure. That's kind of the minimum for me

tawdry void
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also I've seen almost everyone (except few users and one mod, if I remember correctly) talking only about warns and bans in terms of sanctions. I personally don't like the banning solution, because it lasts generally forever. I've been banned one time from a server I enjoyed very much, just because of an heated argument with a mod about the reason of a mute I've had. I had the time to reflect on my actions and regret the things that made me muted in the first place and what I said to the mod for being banned, but I also was very sad about the fact I will never be able to go back to the server anymore. This is why nowadays I consider banning indefinitely as an extreme sanction, and viewing a mod (I don't remember which one) on this thread talking to Potatolord about his probable ban made me remember all these bad memories and wishing it won't go this far, since, although I don't know Potatolord very well, he doesn't seem to me like a bad guy, certainly not the one who deserves to be banned only after some warns and arguments. I think it will be better to flavour lighter sanctions, such as temporary bans, mutes or temporary prohibited to talk in the specific section he was causing trouble (like the potato ban I've seen applied on Beercules for example). I don't know if the ticket system is efficient or not, I've never thought about using it since I usually isn't the kind of guy to say "this meme shouldn't be allowed, please remove it", but in a very active community like that it is theoretically a good solution, I've seen this kind of thing used in another big server, where it helped spamming bots to be taken down very quickly. But if only one political group of person uses it to silence the people that posts memes that says things they don't like, then it is not so good. I agree with, I believe it was Pyro, who said in this case it's not a moderator problem.

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sorry for the long post I've read all the things that was said here recently only today

mighty timber
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I agree with you

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Though I've seen some ban done for...small reasons

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a mute would've been better

tawdry void
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also I totally agree with you and other people about the fact that if memes telling to kill pedos or other kinds of peoples are not accepted, memes telling to kill the rich (or clearly portraying them as inhuman villains) should be taken down too

haughty sonnet
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I'd show you how few people we have actually banned, but due to the antiraid bot having banned thousands of raiders the ban list is a mess, mainly of deleted users 😂

mighty timber
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Don't worry Pyro. I think most are like me, and less like the angry mob

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They just are the silent majority

haughty sonnet
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You get the idea lol

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All of the deleted users, thousands of em
I wish there was a way to clean them out

obsidian girder
haughty sonnet
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Being quicker in removing troublemakers could help, but we do also want to make things work, and not just Yeet ppl who add to the community in some way

obsidian girder
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not 100 percent on that python codes weird

haughty sonnet
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Yeah I do have a script I made in the herald to unban deleted accs

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Butt it would also spam the auto-mod channel to oblivion xD

obsidian girder
#

anyway you mentioned at the end you wanted suggestions

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Id suggest a flat @ us warning right now for anyone yall think have a habbit of breaking rules in tato land, from me to avery and everyone between, then give a date for the reinstatment of tato memes

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Tell each of us what are particular issues are

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So we can better ourselves

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Then if we continue acting up remove the channel role as ypu said well either act up and get banned or leave on our own accord

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Either way no longer a you issue

ornate merlin
obsidian girder
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Anyway thats my suggestion

haughty sonnet
copper crane
#

Given how the Server has 7000+ ppl...

haughty sonnet
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Given how the server has been around for years.... 😛

drowsy pivot
copper crane
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Yes

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We've been talking about that and working on something

sweet kiln
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I have been a wee bit hard on you mods

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My apologies

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But I do think there needs to be taken to reduce or eliminate bias in enforcement actions

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Beyond simply limiting problem posts in chat.

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Because those will never fully go away.

copper crane
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We're trying

cunning garnet
misty mantle
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I heard potato is back, and I'm happy, but now I'm pissed because I can't see it due to an arbitrary level requirement...

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can't be a meme lurker around here... and now I have to do the worst thing ever and talk and talk and talk...

haughty sonnet
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You're free to be a #memes lurker

misty mantle
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not good enough

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the real gold is in potato

mighty timber
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particular reason why?

misty mantle
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probably just to keep people from rejoining on an alt and instantly spamming shit that got them banned in potato

errant trellis
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Also means people have to be invested to do the speaky speaky

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Gives them somethings to lose and thus more likely to follow the rules

mighty timber
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no, I mean why is it better than memes?

misty mantle
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cause it is, the political memes here are gold

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regular memes doesn't make me laugh half as much

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now I'm grinding gatehouse and attempting to "socialize"

mighty timber
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IME half of the memes were "kill the rich" or legit call for violence against wealthy people, the other half was "left can't meme"

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with some gems here and there

errant trellis
misty mantle
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I should have that one auto completed by default

obsidian girder
mighty timber
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First time I hear death threats are fun

obsidian girder
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Moreso ment the left cant meme but iright

drowsy pivot
marble barn
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Wait is potato actually back but level-locked?

maiden girderBOT
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@marble barn has just advanced to level 5.

errant trellis
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Yes

marble barn
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While I am interested in medieval topics along with writing and other subjects here, I have difficulty contributing to large, active servers since things move too quickly

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I understand the mods want us to engage more and I suppose I may make more of an effort but for me, it's always been difficult to establish a sense of community when things are too crowded

misty mantle
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If the goal is to make us engage it's not gonna work very well, I'll simply engage until I hit lvl 10 than resume lurking in potato meme

mighty timber
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The goal is to keep away trolls I think

drowsy pivot
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Exactly
Trolls won't usually want to engage until lvl 10

true token
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Guess I'll just leave a msg a day here till I hit level ten just to troll and watch people troll.

tame cypress
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you gotta wait till 12 to buy a gun in usa
so you gotta wait till 10 lvl to post in potato

true token
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Bad bait, try better so I can get to 10

marble barn
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Indeed

misty mantle
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mortadella detected, activating anti-leftist defense systems, insult cannons loaded

mighty timber
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No need for insults. Let us be the civilised people here

true token
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Gross, explains the uneducated bait.

marble barn
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Fascinating

misty mantle
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I'm thinking a few hundred of the flags

marble barn
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Beautiful

copper crane
true token
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daily msg to get exp so i can watch people getting mad in the pol memes channel again.

marble barn
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I think we can technically post once per minute if I read correctly though at a certain point that might be a bit spammy