Suggestion - political memes channel

[crisp iron]

if they don't, it turns into something else

[tardy zenith]

They've made new expectations *eyebrows raised

[patent solar]

You're a MODERATOR on DISCORD filled with RANDOM PEOPLE on the INTERNET

Why are you mad or complaining when you are vilified? You hold one of the most hated roles in all of Discord. You are like the tax collector of the Roman era.

I get vilified and called terrible terrible things to my FACE when I play Hockey all the game, seriously grow a spine!

[haughty sonnet]

Anyhow, stop trying to vilify us, stop going "mod bad" stop doing all these things to try and purposefully break down any relationship between mods and the rest of the users.
Doesn't matter that generally mods are hated, stop purposefully trying to create tension that needs not be there.

[patent solar]

People attack me with sticks! I have a hurt wrist as I type this! But I signed up for it when I play Hockey.

[high nest]

Well TBF my take on the pol-memes channel is this... Many people know what a mess and a bundle of lies everyday politics is. They try to cope one or the other way – and the nearest way to cope with it is just to laugh at it.

[patent solar]

Mods do something dumb
Mods complain when people call them dumb
??????
Profit

[haughty sonnet]

I do wonder how you have talks in real life if you disagree with someone. Calling ppl names generally doesn't work.

[azure forge]

So you sit there and bitch at the ref all game for doing their job? Good or bad calls?

[patent solar]

I don't bitch at the ref because it doesn't do anything

And clearly with this channel its the same thing, which is why I don't understand why they allow it to exist

Maybe for some measure of copium perhaps.

[haughty sonnet]

No we offer #974930696751677450 to suggest things, not to demand things, or expect things.

[tardy zenith]

I suggest bring back potato memes

I suggest don't ban it

I suggest make a new safe space for right wing minorities on discord

[patent solar]

With my best regards I've clearly defined several times the best choice of action. I understand your points of #potato-memes getting too nasty for you guys and I want to help everyone out with a solution that will make everyone happy guaranteed.

[tardy zenith]

I suggest making an unmoderated possibly unaffiliated chat

[patent solar]

Theres a reason 4chan does so well

[tardy zenith]

I suggest not dissuading promotion of alternative solutions to removing potato memes

[haughty sonnet]

You've defined what you thing would've been the best action yes. But it was also a suggestion of the past, as it is already been pulled, it was a suggestion as for what you think we should've done instead

[tardy zenith]

Are any of these feasible? the answer is absolutely yes Staniel our Lord and savior

[violet tundra]

Safe space? Ha.

[haughty sonnet]

An unmoderated chat is most definitely not an option, but you already know that

[violet tundra]

potatoland isn't a safespace for anyone

[azure forge]

Best choice according to you, dude. I'm quite okay with potato memes being temporarily quieted. Was the same drab memes over and over.

[patent solar]

Its not what I think is the best action its clearly the best action I 100% guarantee you wouldn't be dealing with all of this if you just made an announcement warning people.

Now, dealing with stuff like stuff isn't too hard I suppose, but clearly it gets you frustrated because the term "power moderator" offends you so much 🤣

[tardy zenith]

It's not a space, period, now

[high nest]

I think perhaps in these moments, it might be a thing to take a deep breath then consider "what would Shad do?"

[haughty sonnet]

No, but we would be dealing with the channel issues itself, which is a bigger thing to deal with, it would've moved the problem.

[tardy zenith]

What would oz do

[copper crane]

We would 100% have to deal with people complaining

[tardy zenith]

Why not? Make it unaffiliated. Let us make an unaffiliated chat (other than being made up of the same fan base)

[patent solar]

Shad would most likely let the channel stay

xD

I wonder if I can email him about this. Maybe I gotta buy a Patreon membership or something

[haughty sonnet]

Go for it

I'm sure he'd appreciate it

[tardy zenith]

We should buy the next couple super chats of knights watch RE the discord moderation

Shad: well I'm sure there's just a misunderstanding there many many different political stances
Oz: (hears political) FREE SPEECH, BUT MA TONGUE!

[violet tundra]

Considering Shad abandoned this ship back in 2020, I doubt he cares

[tardy zenith]

Good on him, but this is the best place for fans of shad to discuss

With each other

[patent solar]

He clearly does somewhat since he still puts in the Discord invite link to his recent video descriptions

[violet tundra]

And folks can chat in other channels, you don't need potato memes (a channel with no talking) to discuss anything

[azure forge]

Free speech only applies to government interference. Not companies or the private world.

[haughty sonnet]

If you think this is something you want to try and reach out to Shad about that's your prerogative, just don't spam.

[patent solar]

That's such a terrible argument you can look at Twitter and see where that got them

Or Facebook

Or Insta, or Snapchat

[haughty sonnet]

The server is not even located in the US

[high nest]

Never mind about TikTok... But nope, Discord is in Canada

[azure forge]

And that's what the company decided to do. Which they're full within their rights as a company to do.

[tardy zenith]

You should be allowed to spam super chats as you're just giving out money

[haughty sonnet]

I mean, I guess, if ya wanna splurge on an endless train of handing him money

[azure forge]

Imagine that. Consequences for talking shit about others gets you booted off of a platform. Kind of like here, the rules are pretty damn fair now (you missed the real bullshit). Dont like them, then simply make your own server like many others have done before. Moderators do need to be more consistent is all and things like this wouldnt get to this stage

[patent solar]

The 1st amendment in the US might say otherwise

And the US dictates the entirety of the world but thats not really here and now

[violet tundra]

1st amendment protects you from government censoring... that's it

[patent solar]

Nope

[violet tundra]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Literally says it only applies to Congress

[tardy zenith]

Abridging is more akin to infringing than outright making laws about it.

[violet tundra]

Don't go screeching about laws/amendments if you don't know what they say

[tardy zenith]

If you know what they say, "to him who knows the law and breaks it, it is a sin"

Suggestion, don't ever delete user reactions

Suggestion, bring back potato memes

Suggestion, allow for dissemination of an unrelated server

Suggestion, stop being dicks

Suggestion, touch grass

Suggestion, allow for edgier content in #memes

Suggestion, internet strangers aren't gonna all agree with ya

[haughty sonnet]

hey that last suggestion sounds pretty accurate "internet strangers aren't gonna all agree with ya", although it's not much of a suggestion

[tardy zenith]

Y'know I figured you'd say that last line

[true token]

Bring back the potato memes, It was my best source of memes that make people mad.

[tardy zenith]

Best reason ever

Based super chad

[copper crane]

Again temporary removal. It will come back

[copper crane]

Unless they insult, okay

[copper crane]

Again... We will

[copper crane]

No

[prime sleet]

Chmkn wing

[kind dome]

oh wait this isn't a new politicla meme server

[copper crane]

It's a give and take. We try, you try. Deal?

[kind dome]

sorry, slothjohn tricked me he said this was the new channel

[tardy zenith]

Screw off. I give proper suggestions and you either ignore it or make up new shitty rules

[copper crane]

No

[haughty sonnet]

Suggestion - political memes channel

[copper crane]

We're aware. Now you try

[haughty sonnet]

How can we be sure this isn't your black witchcraft faking grass? or maybe even an entire fake person to touch said grass 👀

[kind dome]

how are we sure it's even a woman hand in 2022

[copper crane]

If you read my messages, you know thats my gramps Engagement ring i wear to honor him

[tardy zenith]

Yeah no one knows that mate

[haughty sonnet]

Well yes, maybe you replicated it 👀 Unless... family heirlooms block witchcraft 👀

[prime sleet]

Magic suppressors

[copper crane]

That's not a new one... Wtf

[prime sleet]

Hides her trail from the witch trackers

[tardy zenith]

What's not a new one

[copper crane]

You're the witch here, i saw your certificate

[copper crane]

That we delete reactions if they break the rules

[tardy zenith]

What bloody rule does break

[copper crane]

Please delete this, not the channel

[kind dome]

[prime sleet]

Wol

Can u send it to me

I didn't save it yet

[kind dome]

i was misled by a green-colores slothjohn

[copper crane]

None... Which is what i told you before...? Which is why ypu called me childish?

[tardy zenith]

If reacting with kek doesn't break any rules, then why did you delete it because quote, it pissed you off

[violet tundra]

Cute accessories

[copper crane]

Because "they pissed me off". Which is not a rule break.

You didnt, i never said you did

[copper crane]

Thanks

[tardy zenith]

If I didn't break a rule, and you're only supposed to delete reactions that are rule violations, why did you delete reactions that quote "pissed me off" and did not in fact break any rules.

[maiden girder]

@tardy zenith has just advanced to level 7.

[copper crane]

Because you pissed me off? What are you not getting about that? You didnt break any rules but pissed me off so i removed them...???? It wasnt correct, i already said that?

[azure forge]

This makes me giggle, youre just going to prolong their temporary removal.

[violet tundra]

I said that earlier, they didn't listen.

[azure forge]

Because youre a moderator. They dont listen is all i get from this thread thing. They think theyre in the right and thats it.

[violet tundra]

Isn't that how it seems to go every time the meme kids start reeeeeing?

[copper crane]

Oh you are Staniel. Enjoy doing that, if that's what makes you happy

Just why do you have to do it like 5 times in a minute? At least dont Block the channel

Also: that message was automoddeleted

His i mean. Not mine

[tardy zenith]

What is it because the message has the r word

The message has the r word

I think I'm completely in the right to call you out as retded for not following the rules as a moderator and thus a role model

[ashen nimbus]

Any specific, actual reason for banning the channel instead of the rule breakers?

[tardy zenith]

this is what I've been trying to type here, but you've completely blocked the r word

I think I'm completely in the right to call you out as retded for not following the rules as a moderator and thus a role model

[violet tundra]

!Warn @mighty quail Political content outside of the Courthouse, nsfw content

[paper plaza]

⚠ Warned Viv0#8169

If you believe a warning to be unjust, please discuss appropiately as lines out in #reports, read the instructions at the top. :warning:

[mighty quail]

yikes

this is why we need potato back

[tardy zenith]

💯

[mighty quail]

if I post this in either #454863873376387082 it will get deleted

but I also can't post this in #memes

because yeah

#bringbackthe🥔

[tardy zenith]

DM it to me

Psl?

***pls

[mighty timber]

I'm curious about those memes too

[copper crane]

Again, because i apparently didnt tell you often enough...

Yes. You can. Feel free to do so. Dont block the channel by doing it as often as you do. Enjoy. Youre meme is funny.
Do you want me to mske up a bad reason so you feel happy?

[copper crane]

Yeah because those arent meme channels. And you cant post it in memes because its political. Which means bo political memes on the server.

[tardy zenith]

What do you mean block the channel. Who brought up the meme? I'm only overflowing here about the reactions because there are witnesses here and you intially tried to deny wrongdoing in the tickets.

Because someone is still removing my reactions in normal memes about normal memes.

[copper crane]

The overflow is what i mean by it. We got it, you Catcher me doing something bad. Oh no, now move on and use this channel dor what it's intended?

[tardy zenith]

Fine then. I'll move to #keep

[copper crane]

And again, i only removed 3️⃣ (incase my other messages weren't clear enough) reactions. I dont do it now because i know it's bad

3️⃣

After that it wasnt me

Find another scapegoat honestly

[tardy zenith]

I'm not blaming you. I'm asking who did it and knock it bloody off.

[copper crane]

You do blame me

You made a meme ro blame me

Lmao

[tardy zenith]

I quoted you in a meme, and you're sore about it

[copper crane]

Oh no, im laughing my ass off

[tardy zenith]

I'm glad you liked it

[copper crane]

This is the best thing that happened all week

Trust me, you raised my mood

[tardy zenith]

Now I'd like to know who is petty enough to continue deleting reactions of all things. If not you, though you've already confessed to abuse of mod power, then who else?

[tardy zenith]

Am genuinely glad

[sweet kiln]

Bring back potat meme chat

[violet tundra]

Nope

[tardy zenith]

Watch the praise emoji reaction. Don't let it leave

HOLY HELL

ITS GONE

[copper crane]

Oi who deleted mine

[sweet kiln]

Deleting emojies

[tardy zenith]

Lmfaoooo

[sweet kiln]

What worthless sack of flesh is doing that?

[copper crane]

👀 on the watch

[sweet kiln]

Show yourself a s s h a t

[tardy zenith]

Screen recording proof it wasn't me

Though discord won't let me send it

[copper crane]

I cant screen record without inszaling an app

[sweet kiln]

And this is why I'm pissed about the channel going away. The manner in which it was done was just like this.

[tardy zenith]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YgNNT5uzR1X3WgJp6

[prime sleet]

[sweet kiln]

Behind closed doors and with no warning

Emoji deleter show yourself coward, address us instead of hiding.

[copper crane]

See... I at least was honest about it xD

Were*

[azure forge]

You had it right

[sweet kiln]

Inb4 finger gone

[tardy zenith]

I believed you, and I probably do too now, but I'll rib you about mod powers some other time

Glad it's cleared up

[copper crane]

Ah ffs stupid language

[copper crane]

Alright do that

[sweet kiln]

The removal of potato chat is peak mod jack donkery

[violet tundra]

the potato chats are still there

[sweet kiln]

My bad

[tardy zenith]

Donket

[sweet kiln]

Potato meme

[tardy zenith]

The mems are gone tho, not even archived

[sweet kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/gone-reduced-to-atoms-gif-21134993

[copper crane]

@chrome heron

[chrome heron]

Ah thanks

[copper crane]

We have them all

[sweet kiln]

Are you gonna get this gif deleted to?

[tardy zenith]

I want to see the golden tatoes

Notice the joke aha aha I funny

[violet tundra]

then go to the market, not here

[tardy zenith]

Suggestion: archive the potato chat

[sweet kiln]

No more fine additions to my collection because you mods are incompetent and couldn't moderate one chat. So u go with nuclear option.

[chrome heron]

Potato memes will come back if you behave
If you behave like this you'll get yourself a potato ban

[tardy zenith]

Behave like how so exactly?

Complaining that you with no warning revoked a privilege?

[sweet kiln]

I mean it's true, you said it yourself you were overwhelmed. By one damned chat lmao.

[violet tundra]

We should honestly extend the time it's gone for every day they piss and moan

[sweet kiln]

Guess you get to read complaints in perpetuity

If not by me then by some other.

[tardy zenith]

And swamp the other complaints

[chrome heron]

It's only a few regular potatoes and mostly lurkers who are fussing
If they have a slight bit of patience it'll come back quicker

[tardy zenith]

Suuure

[sweet kiln]

You don't get to put the innocent in time out like a bunch of children and not get blowback. You did this not us.

[violet tundra]

Yeah, honestly the potato chat regs have almost all just accepted this and are laughing at the winging too. there may be some hope for them.

[tardy zenith]

Uh, you're talking to them

And I'm pretty sure that braille boy here is the one deleting reactions

[sweet kiln]

Who is the donkey who deleted the emojies again.

[copper crane]

Potatochat not meme

[violet tundra]

you're not the potato chat regs

[sweet kiln]

I am a reg lol.

[tardy zenith]

uhm lmao

Not the ones who get warned, maybe

[violet tundra]

buddy you're a lurker serf

you aren't one of the chat regs

[sweet kiln]

As much as it pains me

[tardy zenith]

Ohh chat

[sweet kiln]

I agree

[tardy zenith]

You said potato

It's disputaio

Despacito

Not potato

[violet tundra]

potato chat

[sweet kiln]

The nickname of disputatio is potato chat

[violet tundra]

you'd know it were potato chat if you were a reg

[sweet kiln]

And that is how you know he is green.

Or brown in this case

Lol

[tardy zenith]

I hardcore lurk tho

[sour storm]

Hey I made pretty sound arguments while here definetly is some : „mods bad“ sentiment taking over. It isn’t entirely unjustified for those who liked the channel, though i think some are going to far in their anger outburst

[tardy zenith]

I said one r word and zero other slurs

And I call myself r sooooooooooooooo suuuuuuuck ittttt upppp

[patent solar]

It’s clear they’re not willing to listen very much at all

[tardy zenith]

They also blanket said potatoeites were the reee kid soooo

REEEEE vs retvrd is same thing to me

[patent solar]

Really wish we had some examples of banned memes

[winter blade]

i think we know "banned" memes are just right-wing memes the mods don't like but can't cite specific rules for

like that one time i copied a commie's meme format and changed the text and instantly got a warn for the "uncivil" form - i practically kicked and screamed to see the commie get equally warned for it, just to see if they'd do it (they did, but not until cornered)

[patent solar]

Political bias at it's finest

[prime sleet]

because no one posts left-wing memes enough to cause trouble

[tardy zenith]

I remember this twice I believe

[maiden girder]

@tardy zenith has just advanced to level 8.

[carmine flower]

I think I remember that was it the brick meme

[winter blade]

aye - a commie mod warned me for "transphobia" but they knew it wasn't legitimate when i argued against it and changed the reasoning to the uncivil format

it was oddly satisfying to force them to finally enforce the rule evenly on that one lefty dude

or ig i should say y'all bc you are a militiaman (although a rare non-commie, iirc)

[covert root]

I demand the return of potato memes

[violet tundra]

You can't demand squat

[mighty timber]

Is everything okay here?

[winter blade]

braille person is just getting angrier and angrier as the day goes on

[violet tundra]

I'm not angry

I am just stating facts

The serf has no room to demand anything

[covert root]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Peasants'_War

[violet tundra]

So, instead of being coherent you're just gonna babble like a moron then?

Really a shining example of why we took away the channel buddy

[winter blade]

with all due respect braille person, you can state facts without making your disdain for the person you're talking to immediately obvious

if you're in america, like me, i strongly recommend getting to sleep soon

sleep deprivation is bad for the soul

[violet tundra]

I just woke up not long ago

I feel great

[winter blade]

... i don't sense that reading these chats, but ok

[covert root]

All mods are gay

[sour storm]

Great now we have mud throwing contest of „mods bad“/„you deserved it“

Can we please all be civil again and discuss this like adults?

Dear comrades in the quest to regain potatoe memes, while the ones who followed the rules are rather rightfully angry remember that the mods are also human, they make mistakes and deserve the same respect as you and me.

Dear moderators while you surely have your reasons consider that there are many sides to this conflict and that people who get stuff they like taken away get emotional. You as moderators are meant to have the strength in charachter to still make justified decisions not of your own will but for the greater good and the rules. Try to understand the outrage and please don’t get yourself emotional as then you would be the one needing moderation. Please consider our arguments and don’t just keep to your decision cause it was decided.

[copper crane]

I will repeat this again: ye will get it back. Its a temporary removal. Ye will get the channel back. The longer ye "demand" the return, the longer it will stay away. The more ye insult us, the longer it will stay away.

[sour storm]

Yes of course, but having a civil discussion about if this was a sensible reaction doesn’t seem weird to me.

And also how far that demand thing is an example of bad potatoe behavior is to be argued

On the insult line I can atleast state that I have observed similar things from both sides happening in here due to it being a heated situation

[rustic horizon]

wait... you can wake up and not feel like you just crawled out of hell

lucky...

[inner sand]

rip potato memes

you will be mist

[rustic horizon]

we are turning the potatoes into vapour!

[inner sand]

inhale the taters!

[rustic horizon]

potato flavoured vape

[copper crane]

No, that's fine and good and ye should. It doesnt change anything but we are happy to get suggestions on how we can better it once it's bad.

I never said it shows bad potatobehaviour. It shows generally bad behavior

[sour storm]

That: „It doesn’t change anything“ did. kind of hurt, not gonna lie. It would be appreciated if a theoretical win in argument could change something about the current situation as that would be reasonable from my point of view.

But it was said the people in here do not behave which will prolong the absence of potatoe memes. The reason for this was stated to be that if we show that we can behave: (aka not doing the bad stuff which we did in potatoe memes) we would the text Channel back at some point.

So if now it is said that in here it is „just generally bad behavior“ wouldn’t that still show that we ain’t doing bad potatoe behavior anymore? Though of course it doesn’t matter what kind of and behavior it is it is still bad.

[copper crane]

That's the thing... This isnt an argument.

It will prolong it, yes. But not because it shows ye cant behave in potatomemes but because it shows ye cant behave in general.
It will come back but simply slower.

Yes, it simply shows general bad behavior in connection to it. That's something we really dont want to see

[sour storm]

if it shows the server cant behave shouldnt the punihsment not be more general like and effecting more then just potatoe memes?

i dont want to step to close or disrespect a moderator, BUT the ignorance that even if proven wrong in deleting potatoe memes the mods wouldnt change their mistake, and to refuse to have a debate about the justness of such an action. (outside of the regular channels like here where its supposed to be and doesnt undermine moderators authority) does sound rather elitist. Discord servers arent meant to democratically lead but this also isnt the military hierachy.

[haughty sonnet]

How was anyone proven wrong in removing a channel. It's not because there's a people who disagree that we are wrong.

And I did spend many hours the other day talking with people here

[inner sand]

the removal of potato memes has been a topic for almost as long as the channel has existed

so I'm not entirely surprised it got nuked

[winter blade]

I hate to be the "no one asked" guy... but you should try to actually say something with your messages

[covert root]

Why was it even removed?

[mighty timber]

Too much abuse from the users according to the mods

Laziness from the mods according to the users

[glacial void]

Oh boy, what kind of pit have I gotten myself into. This all doesn't even makes any sense to me.

It's like if your friend opened his house for everyone to come and party, and left some rules on the door, asked other friends to help making sure the rules were being follow, and then a shitton of people were trashing the pool, the "guards" couldn't possibly handle and physically remove everyone so they just closed off the pool. And now people are complaining the guards didn't have the right to do this, when being at this party wasn't anyone's right to begin with, it is just a privilege given by the owner of the house.

I don't get it what the problem is here. Do people think they are entitled to a using someone's private space? Because it is a private space even if it's open for the public, since there is a server owner who decides the rules.

And people calling mods lazy when they are literally donation their time to make sure this server even exists, while getting nothing in return for it. Sure people can disagree with how the mods handled it, but we know absolutely nothing about the backstage to even comprehend the subject enough to begin to disagree...

To me this really looks like a case of a person who goes into your home, order you around, and you're like "wtf, I didn't allow you in here, I won't get any beer for you" and then the person goes on a rampage like "stop being lazy and censoring me, if you don't get me my beer I'll just go there and get it myself and drink anyway"

[patent solar]

This isn't a house it is a general community building and its as if they removed the pool table in the arcade corner. Course people will be upset!

[patent solar]

Can't upset the mods fee-fees

[haughty sonnet]

The pool table is out of service for maintenance.

[patent solar]

The staff got tired of cleaning it after people kept smacking the ball too hard leaving marks

Instead of saying "Stop hitting the damn ball as hard!" or fixing the bad signage of the rules they removed it at 2 AM and when people complained and asked why it was gone they were told to go fuck themselves.

And will now proceed to be ok with pissing off quality members and enjoyers of the server

[haughty sonnet]

People broke the pool table and were then surprised that the pool table is gone or doesn't work properly

Even though the staff regularly asked to be more careful with the pool table and use it as intended

[patent solar]

They asked by putting out signs in the ancient outhouse in the back nobody ever uses anymore

[haughty sonnet]

nah, in the middle of the pool table

You do know that running a server is more than just "do what this person wants" right.

In fact for the good of the server sometimes things need to happen that not everyone might agree with

[patent solar]

Woah really? Holy fuck I never knew

[haughty sonnet]

Also I never told anyone to go fuck themselves

[patent solar]

Stop taking everything I say literally that's a good first step on Discord

[haughty sonnet]

Between the two of us there's only one person who has been rude

[patent solar]

I like being rude to people who deserve it. Sorry. 😄

[haughty sonnet]

You're just actively working on making us look bad by putting words in our mouths

Too bad, whether you believe someone deserves it or not is irrelevant, don't be rude.

[patent solar]

I mean if you wanna get me off of Rule 1.1 go ahead but other mods have been rude as well

[haughty sonnet]

hmm how would that be, maybe because you've been shitting on us for hours on end

[patent solar]

I literally haven't been in here for hours

Technically days

I think, not entirely 100% sure

But seriously like... lets be real here. You've clearly stated what you're gonna do with #potato-memes Ill give you that.

So then what's the point of keeping this thread thing? Aren't threads suppose to be closed when there's an answer?

[haughty sonnet]

Because people want a place to have their say - which they can do without being rude in any way - otherwise there'll just a be a next post anyway.

[patent solar]

Well... just tell people to stop making posts about it

Use the #potato-memes strategy you enforced

[haughty sonnet]

Or we could just not be rude about it and there'd be no issues

[patent solar]

Well you were rude about #potato-memes why not be rude here

[haughty sonnet]

No, no I wasn't

And also because being rude makes ppl focus on the fact that you're being rude, instead of whatever the point is you're trying to make.

[patent solar]

Sounds like a skill issue.

[haughty sonnet]

No

[patent solar]

You'd be great at politics!

[haughty sonnet]

the skill is to be able to have a proper conversation

rather than being rude

[patent solar]

Clearly a skill I am capable of and you aren't. Since you've present very little argument for your cause, constantly refute good points made by your own members, and then play the victim constantly.

Like I don't wanna be this mean to you but it's getting sad dude.

[haughty sonnet]

^comments like that are truly not helpful

[patent solar]

😅

[haughty sonnet]

And neither is this one, as it's incorrect

You keep thinking we don't listen because we don't do your bidding

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[patent solar]

My bidding? Why is this only about me? Clearly I am not the only one who complains about #potato-memes being gone as this other user has distain for the recent decision to remove it.

[haughty sonnet]

This other user is here to say ppl have sand in their privates, very useful.

[haughty sonnet]

Yeah there's a small handful.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

See

Anyhow we don't need to type of ppl who think this is conversation

[patent solar]

You're putting words into my mouth, not the other away around my friend!

I defend you removing #potato-memes if you gave people a clear announcement saying it will be removed if things didn't change. If you did that then I would be totally content, and most likely so would others.

I'm attacking you because not only have you mods made a poor and rash decision, you're now choosing this terrible hill to die on for what? Reddit karma on r/moderators???

[haughty sonnet]

!ban @ornate pelican Troll being rude about potato memes, kindly rethink your life choices.

[paper plaza]

🔨 Banned Jaguar Holly.#1426 indefinitely

[haughty sonnet]

There is an announcement about it being gone now

We can't go back into the past

So what you expect is not an option

[patent solar]

...bruv what the. Dude didn't understand my message or something whatever

I know I'm not the best at typing these out

[haughty sonnet]

You want me to give a clear extra warning in announcements

[patent solar]

You can actually. Simply put back #potato-memes and then say "Act up or its gone, you got 1 week, here is a list clearly defining what we are and aren't ok with"

[haughty sonnet]

This is¨the entire warning

a temporary break

Because clearly telling ppl it might be removed doesn't work

[patent solar]

It does actually when you aren't afraid to use the announcements channel and the @everyone ping

[haughty sonnet]

The courthouse has its own rules section...

[patent solar]

Ok, maybe you should've posted the announcement the second it was removed, and then also stated the EXACT amount of time it was gonna be gone for

Then there would be less protesting

[haughty sonnet]

Yes definitely should've been a message stating it was gone, that happened while I was asleep (it was very much night for me), and the person that actually did it should've put it in #rules-and-regulations.

[patent solar]

The rules are vague.

[violet tundra]

You do realize you are yelling at the wrong admin right?

[haughty sonnet]

But that doesn't give anyone a free card to be a rude prick.

[patent solar]

I can't check the #potato-memes channel description so I can't check

[violet tundra]

Colt put up a warning in potatomemes and took it down an hour later

[patent solar]

Ah, my mistakes. Here

[🤬🤬🤬🤬]

[violet tundra]

And that is entirely uncalled for as I'm not an admin with powers to hide channels

[patent solar]

There, I packaged it. Deliver it to the person responsible

[patent solar]

You sir are ill mannered along with most of the others here, therefore that is the definition of rude.

[haughty sonnet]

hmm yes sure, you think removing a channel is rude, but actually being rude is fine.

That would actually make removing a channel fine by that logic

Your logic, you think it's fine to be rude to us, and you think deleting a channel is rude

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[violet tundra]

You really are entitled aren't you? Have you tried thinking about this situation from the otherside? For example, the night it went down I woke up to unruly users rampant screaming and going around the server purposefully breaking the rules. I woke up needing to fight fires on here and then keep an eye on the server while doing my actual job because it's part of my responsibility to make sure the server isn't nuked while everyone sleeps. Now imagine 18 hours of this for 3 days. Wouldn't you say the users screeching are the rude ones?

Think about all the effects instead of throwing a fit that you lots your unfunny picture channel access.

[patent solar]

I'm not entitled, I'm upset about the obvious lack of communication, clarity and poor decision making by the staff team, or whoever's responsible.

As for the unruly users, of course this behavior was expected. I'm not saying its right, but I'm also saying you could've easily avoided all of it. Protests happen dude, and they aren't necessarily nice either.

I have thought of the situation from the outside. I used to moderate big servers myself, I'm not some nobody who has 0 clue on how to moderate. I've thought about it as the moderators perspective. While I disagree on most policies you have on memes, I want to be able to find some middle ground. The method I keep constantly describing is that middle ground.

Instead the memes channel is just gone with very little warning in my opinion. I check this server frequently and don't recall seeing anything like specialized warnings.

Oh and just having a rules channel or a channel description doesn't cut it. Most if not all people do not consider those as "valid" warnings.

Even if you posted an announcement right when the channel was removed saying "Hey guys, you're being too edgy with the potato memes channel, we're gonna hide it for 3 days and bring it back, when its back please act up more, here is a list of what content we are and aren't okay with:"

[violet tundra]

You just explained half of the problem yourself. The users don't see posting dozens of memes saying "x" group of people need to die as a rule break. And clearly warning them and banning several had no effect either as it happened 3 times since February. If the users can't see the problem, and individual action doesn't stop it than the clear answer is to take away their channel.

[patent solar]

What exactly happened 3 times? 3 users got banned or 3 bad memes posted?

[violet tundra]

3 instances of over a dozen memes on theme being posted by multiple users

And even after banning some, new users filled the holes each time

[patent solar]

Do you have examples of some of these memes?

If you explain this to the people then they wouldn't be as bad, and would hold themselves more accountable. I have yet to hear word or warning from moderators about this issue.

If it was seriously THIS bad, and banning wasn't effective, then again, a warning announcement explaining the dire situation BEFORE the channel's removal would've really helped you guys.

[haughty sonnet]

People disagreeing never was the issue. Yes you can disagree in a way that does not include being rude. If you think that's not possible that's something only you can work on.

There's plenty of servers that don't allow any politics whatsoever, we are trying to make it work by putting in a lot of time. The channel is not on break because we don't want to put in time, but because people are making it so that there's a demand of moderation no one can realistically and reasonably meet. Now to some users it might not be clear how big the issue is, but someone with moderation experience should have a better idea of it.

If all the warnings, the dedicated rules channel to that specific section, and the main rules all are not enough, at what point is it no longer our fault?

And I have already agreed that there should've been a message in #rules-and-regulations the moment it was removed.

[patent solar]

You need to work on not being so sensitive dude.

[haughty sonnet]

again, not a useful or constructive comment

[patent solar]

It is both of those things literally. I'm giving you actual advice you should heed too.

[violet tundra]

There WAS an announcement made before hand.

[tawdry void]

what is even the point of arguing like that ? We can't do anything but wait, since I've understood the mods are willing to give it back after a period of time. It is true that it would be useful in the future to have more precise examples of at which point a meme is permitted or not however.

[patent solar]

Where?

[violet tundra]

As we have been saying for ages, if you are unsure about content, feel free to open a ticket for content review

[patent solar]

Most servers do not allow politics which is totally fine. But you chose to allow politics and you allowed it to grow to a mainstay of your server. Be prepared to face backlash when you attempt to disrupt it.

[haughty sonnet]

Do you really think I personally care?
Learn how to have proper conversation, is this also how you communicate at work?

Backlash and people disagreeing is fine. Any change you can make ppl will disagree

[patent solar]

Works in Hockey just fine friend.

[tawdry void]

I personnally almost never post memes there, so it's more to help regular posters avoiding warns

[patent solar]

Yes normally the bad changes have tons of people upset and wanting to protest and break the rules. As what your comrade in arms described having to fight against earlier

[haughty sonnet]

So do good changes.

[patent solar]

Who’s the judge to see if the changes were good? You? Or the users? I say it should be both. As the moderator and the user experience the Discord server differently on a psychological level.

[haughty sonnet]

I was not even saying it was good or bad, I'm saying that people don't like change (and would still rise up even if something is objectively good), or like the way things were and don't see the bigger picture.

And in this particular case Discord also judges.

[patent solar]

Ah yes Discord. Their own admins and mods post furry porn all day and have been removed from their positions for liking drawn child porn

[maiden girder]

@patent solar has just advanced to level 15.

[patent solar]

I’m not even trying to be sarcastic

[haughty sonnet]

So they've been removed, good

[patent solar]

They have been yelled at by the FBI

[haughty sonnet]

It's not because some of the discord employees may have done despicable things (which idk, I have no desire to look it up so I'll take you at your word), that they don't own this server and we aren't beholden to their rules.
(also whatever adult content they like seeing is none of my business, if they want to watch furry stuff that's their choice)

[glacial void]

To me it's pretty clear why that channel was deleted. If these people here are the "ones who didn't deserve punishment", then things had to be really bad there. e.e"

[haughty sonnet]

What's this with this understandable person

Very sus

But yeah, thanks for chiming in

your previous message as well 😛

[violet tundra]

Zeke has a history of level headed takes 👍

[glacial void]

I have my own servers and have been accused by people who misunderstood me before. But those weren't randos, they were personal friends, so it hurt pretty bad. Anyway, it's a long story, it just really rubs me the wrong way when people go out on a witch hunt against people they don't even try to understand. I'm generally the one defending game devs, mods and etc because I've been there 😅

Sure, I understand it really hurts people who had nothing to do with the channel's deletion. But at the end of the day, doing... this won't help anyone. You can't convince people by bashing on their head, the best this is accomplishing is proving the potatopocalipse was justified...

[mighty timber]

It was

People just forgot that part

[glacial void]

I'm glad I never left the video discussion channels xD

[mighty timber]

It isn't that bad. It was like 4 people monopolising it

most people were pretty innocent

that's the paradox

you had like 3 people spamming unfunny or even violent leftist meme and one spamming "the left can't meme"

Sometime they were so bad it leaked to other channels who were like "wtf is this?!??! explain"

[glacial void]

Yeah, I know how it goes. I still tend to prefer to stay away, that stuff ain't good for my mental health. I really try to be polite, but inside I die a little when I had to people with toxic people. And sometimes I can lose control and spend an entire hour or so reading this entire channel xD

[mighty timber]

np

I honestly wasn't part of it

I just try to see both sides of the argument

[glacial void]

I've seen you around, you don't look the type to be xD

[mighty timber]

I had some moments, trust me

it's just that I'm too Canadian to be full on like some

[glacial void]

And I understand them, even the toxic ones. As people said, that is a way to vent, and now people lost that. Hell, I've been the one to vent like that in an age far away.

Still... There are better and healthier ways to vent than posting memes on the internet 😅

[glacial void]

We all had ahahah

[mighty timber]

yeah, but it became a running joke here since it was quite out of character

I have no problem admitting my fault

[glacial void]

And that is a deserved medal of honor to you

Better to be the level-headed guy who lost their mind once or twice and admit I, than being someone who's willingly toxic thinking it's justified

[mighty timber]

Yeah, but some memes here were quite funny....sometime

in some cases...

I think

[glacial void]

XD Pretty sure there were a few gems

Fucking genius xD

[mighty timber]

press x to find funny

[glacial void]

Ugh, ok. Yeah, I tend to find really distasteful, to put it lightly, whenever:

• people criticize what they don't understand
• people try being funny at the expense of someone else
• people generalizing other people and putting labels on them as if everyone who has been assigned a label thinks exactly the same and there is no human nuance involved

This checks all those boxes

[mighty timber]

no, that one was a "light hearted" meme. Some legit were "kill the rich, they're a plague to humanity"

[glacial void]

I mean, see why I have to stay away from channels like that? You innocently sent me a meme just to give me a taste of what it was like and now I'm grinding my teeth to stop myself from going on a long rant about how "capitalism ruining the economy" doesn't even make sense

[mighty timber]

And for something to be funny, it has to be based on reality mixed with absurdity if you understand me. Taking a straw man to joke about isn't funny

[mighty timber]

That was pretty much my out of character moment

Trust me going to university has taught me patience

Those people are everywhere among the students

[glacial void]

OH, I KNOW. Hell, this isn't even university, I'm about to graduate in an IT course in college so it wasn't supposed to be that bad. But it was torture to sit through the subjects "society and technology" and "communication and expression" last year.

(Or as I like to call them: "socialism and technology" and "communism and expression")

[mighty timber]

You had someone say that teachers are millionaires and so should not be paid.....In economy

[glacial void]

Oh boy

[copper crane]

Guys, as nice it is to see an actual reasonable conversation here, please move to #keep

[glacial void]

Oh, yeah, I guess we got carried away 😅 thanks for the heads-up

[copper crane]

Thanks!

[sour storm]

i meant theoretically proven wrong

that if we were able to prove through debate that we were right it still wouldnt matter according to some messages was my problem.

[mighty timber]

sort of yes

though you were not alone

Just look at disputatio, it seems that the mod have a grudge towards politics

They're less tolerant with the courthouse. IDK why. Maybe too much abuse over time

Why must admin (discord reddit, etc) be on average like that?

Real general question

[maiden girder]

@shrewd pulsar has just advanced to level 3.

[haughty sonnet]

Nope

[ornate merlin]

I have only been here a few days, and I find the culture here in this thread and a few other places… contentious? I am not sure if that is the right word but it’s the best I got this early in the day. Assuming the meme channel in question was causing enough issues that the staff was getting reports, isn’t that a good reason for anyone who regularly used that channel to take a step back and ask if the channel is worth having (even if you didn’t break any rules yourself)? I assume the goal of this server is to make a healthy community focused around many of the topics shad has covered in his videos. Anything that causes contention in the community (within reason) probably should probably be a point of concern for the whole community (not just staff). Whether the channel in question is a meme channel, a politics channel, or a cooking channel, why would we as a community want to keep a channel that is creating issues rather than solving them.

I have never been an active participant in a server this large before, but I have been a community manager for servers around 800 people twice, and a lead admin for a server of 500 people. I am not a novice at this but I lack the experiences of the current staff. With that experience in mind I see a few people who seem to believe that so long as what they do does not break the rules nothing should happen. I also see some people who think the rules are intended to sculpt a particular kind of behavior, and the rules may be enforced in different places at different times based on what is seen by the staff or based on how many/what kind of reports the staff receives. Regardless of where you fall on that spectrum, isn’t the goal to again build a community together? Other people’s thoughts and feelings are far more important than your jokes. And that is all memes are, jokes (not literally but excuse my hyperbole). I would temper that by saying there is a line where some people are being offended for the sake of being offended but based on what the staff have said so far it doesn’t sound like that was the issue in this case.

I have literally zero say here in what can/should/must happen, nor do I want that say. But I am trying to say: whether you are a staff member or not, the wisest thing to do is probably make decisions that help build up fellow community members, and make them feel welcome to every reasonable extent. And a good question to ask is whether or not having this potato meme channel back or not will help build the community.

[ornate merlin]

Are/Were those rules in place to address previous issues that got out of hand?

[mighty timber]

That I don't know

You must also understand Alex that the memes that got response tended to be either false (Kyle killed 3 black people)or outright violent (like some encouraging killing rich people)

The response tended to be "not funny" or "wow, calm down"

[maiden girder]

@shrewd pulsar has just advanced to level 4.

[ornate merlin]

I am actually gonna take a step back from my previous question. The reality is the answer to that is going to depend on your perspective. I have not been here long enough to either validate or interpret an answer to my own question.

Just to lay my bias on the table. On my server of 120 people there is a meme channel because two of the moderators wanted it, and I made that channel hidden because I see no value in people coming to my server just to shoot memes at each other. And even if the the memes are all in good fun, what is funny and tasteful to you may not be to someone else, and even for yourself what is funny and tasteful can change based on context. Because of the way people often share memes in a discord channel that context and audience can shift wildly. So that is my bias here, I don't like meme channels.

My longer message above though was less about the potato meme channel itself and more about the discussion that was taking place in this thread. I skimmed it because... it's a lot. I just wanted to let this entire thread know that I as an outsider coming in was very concerned by what I was seeing. and I like to think I am a really balanced guy. I also think I am exactly in the target audience of a community focused server like this.

[mighty timber]

Well, some people here are...let say a little bit romanticising Potato meme

They were some really funny gems but it was starting to be spammed by "communism best system, kill evil rich and fascists" "memes"

The truth is a mix of both realities

[ornate merlin]

And to lay my bias out on the table again, this seems to be really solvable by removing the places to discuss real-world politics from this server. I personally find that discord servers are a poor place to discuss those topics, it is better to handle them in DMs.

[ornate merlin]

To practice what I am/was preaching @shrewd pulsar, what are the positive roles a political meme channel can serve, and what the negative roles a political meme channel can serve?

[mighty timber]

On average, I'd say you're right. But this isn't really what people want AND I'll say that this server's far better than most on that

lots of diverse opinions and some that can actually discuss

And except some, agree to disagree is possible

[haughty sonnet]

It should also be noted that politics isn't the main focus of this server, and neither are memes. We try giving people the political memes with restrictions that some might find absurd, over not having them at all.

[ornate merlin]

This message bothers me a lot. I do not care for either side of the political spectrum. What I am hearing you say is you want to share your political ideologies. Respecting that logic dictates that not everyone will agree with you, and people often get really invested in political discourse, why do you feel the need to share them here when this server is for a youtuber, a youtuber who probably attracts people from many different political walks of life. Does it concern you that you could contribute to an environment where people from different political viewpoints could feel unwelcome?

[mighty timber]

No, he just wants to laugh

The meme about one political side not being funny is not a joke, and I'm not right-wing

And by your logic no one should share any political meme

[haughty sonnet]

Yeah I'm not even sure if I'm supposed to take it seriously or if he's memeing the discussion

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ornate merlin]

That is the logic I am attempting to lay out (at least outside of DMs).

[mighty timber]

Alex?

[haughty sonnet]

No not Alex

lol

[mighty timber]

and that logic is VERY flawed

it removes any discussion

and if a memes makes you feel unwelcome, yo uhave problem

[haughty sonnet]

Specifically this message

[mighty timber]

I've seen memes that literally encourage people to kill a certain demographic

and all of those were left-wing towards rich, white, or religious people

[ornate merlin]

I am not even sure how to respond to this, because this analogy seems too far removed from the reality of the situation for me to respond to in a way that is helpful.

[mighty timber]

I still think they should be able to express themselves. Though they should expect a backflash

[ornate merlin]

I guess you and I simply disagree on where the best places for those discussion to occur are. And that is ok.

[mighty timber]

The courthouse was made specifically for that. It's an optional channel you can access IF you want politics

while it may be true, lets stay on the topic of that specific server

[haughty sonnet]

We are not trying to create an echo chamber either, you seem to be literally saying you only want right wing ppl around (or in your words "no left wing ppl infiltrating")

"Mods getting butthurt" really is not a reason, and does not add to any conversation other than to try and villainise us. Even if you do not think the reasons to be enough to not have potato memes, I'm sure you can think of some actual reasons...

[ornate merlin]

I should opt out of it then. I don't even remember opting in.

I think making this an "optional" part of the server was the right move, but I think it is fair to say what happens in an option area can have a big impact on other areas of the server as far as developing a culture for the server. I am trying to encourage us all to think about that so that whatever decision is made is made for reasons that help this server be the most helpful to all who want to participate.

[haughty sonnet]

The system is specifically opt out, although we'll probably be getting rid of the opt in/out system as it's too complex etc, but that's not the topic at hand 😛

[mighty timber]

What you're encouraging would remove any meaningful conversation without trying to be too rude.

You seem to really want to discuss and I appreciate, but your logic is very flawed

[ornate merlin]

That's fair, again my bias is already on the table. I don't think public community focused discords should have political areas because of the heat it can generate.

[mighty timber]

I agree that the main channels should not have any deep politics

[haughty sonnet]

To be fair, that's a stance many servers take

[mighty timber]

And if the mods really want no politics, then so be it

I think what Spence isn't liking is a bias he sees

[haughty sonnet]

We have actually been actively trying to make it all work, most people don't understand or don't want to understand the time investment it all takes, and how many issues there actually are.

[mighty timber]

I mean, you're doing it for free. That I think is what people forget

[haughty sonnet]

Yes, no one is an employee, we all do this in our free time (and often even not-so-free time), what some people expect is something we could only provide with multiple full time employees xD

[ornate merlin]

I guess my logic is flawed if we assume the same start point "Politics is worth discussing on this server". I do not agree with that start point. I have laid out my reasons why I have a bias against that position. Of course other people can start from different points, or come to different conclusions in good faith.

[mighty timber]

No, I mean discussion in general.

I agree but don't assume their intentions like that

[haughty sonnet]

Not having potato memes does not create an echo chamber, the real discussion channels are still out there lol

[mighty timber]

Same mods for 4 years?

[azure forge]

Its been an exho chamber for a while. Until Avery and Mortadella appeared was just right wing talking points. The same ones, over...and over....

The politcal memes channel is the same. Been that way since it was created. Theres not really been a left wing meme bias in the slightest.

[ornate merlin]

Speaking purely anecdotally, I find the way people discuss, for instance politics in Dragon Age and how that correlates to real world politics is very different from how people discuss real world politics. I find that both can get serious, and both can get really invested, and even have some really serious but positive interaction with "fake" politics such as from a game. But often times people get so personally invested in real politics that I think it can really hurt connections/friendships that otherwise would not have been hurt had they discussed anything but politics. I have seen this happen enough times that it led to my current stance and bias.

[azure forge]

Nope. Been an overhaul and a half. The only ones from the start are Pyro and Xander.

[mighty timber]

I'm newer so I can't say for before. But I can say it was more a question of some people spamming a lot of "violent" memes than a general opinion, so you're sort of right

[mighty timber]

so it's based on exterior experience

[haughty sonnet]

[mighty timber]

I....Don't have the same experience, at least with dragon age. People are not that bad with the setting politics until it coincide with modern left-wing politics. For example "The mages are better because they're fighting the rich and want to bring democracy" (real comment I've seen).

[haughty sonnet]

[mighty timber]

no, on that I have to give him. They were a lot of "murder the rich" memes

[haughty sonnet]

Uhu and what do we do when we see a call to violence?

[mighty timber]

I did made a report on that a month ago

[haughty sonnet]

Because I'm certain that we have given out warns for "memes" that are calling for murder

[mighty timber]

Problems, which maybe explains why potato was closed, was that they didn't stopped

[haughty sonnet]

The issue is that they somehow keep appearing forever

And not even necessarily by just a few ppl

random new joins, old accounts that resurrect, and everything in between lol

[mighty timber]

Yeah, but I think this is what spence meant by "inflitrations"

3-4 people making everything they can to spam it

[ornate merlin]

I am going to bow out of this conversation for now. I believe I have said everything I wanted to say for the moment. I am glad we were able to civilly talk about some of the ideas, even if we disagree on what to do about or with them.

[haughty sonnet]

So you're again saying to ban leftist from being in the courthouse?

Seems reasonable...

And "not funny" is basically most of what potato memes ever was lol

gems are few and far between though 😛

[mighty timber]

I mean, this would create an echo chamber

If we remove the unfunny part maybe

and the never original

I mean, if your meme is a 2 page long text explaining why killing white people is okay, I think we can understand it isn't for potato meme

I think an idea would be no moderation. The only moderation would be to make sure it doesn't leak in other channels

[haughty sonnet]

Also all sounds very subjective, and then we get yelled at for things not being clear enough

[mighty timber]

Yeah, that was my criticism too

It would lead to a lot of "but i'm innocent" cases

[azure forge]

No moderation doesnt work, yall started bitching when someone had enough of veiled insults, got them involved and people got warns.

[mighty timber]

If we make it clear they're on their own I don't think people would complain as much

Most I see complain complain about a lack of consistency

Like one getting the hammer for a pretty tame personal attack while the one doing death threats gets nothing

[azure forge]

I do. Free for all makes people butt hurt because people gang up (so to speak) on them for their opinion that the group didnt like or agree with and so begin to mock them everytime they speak.

[mighty timber]

Isn't it already the case right now?

Personal attacks are not uncommon in disputatio

And gang up are not uncommon too

bad faith is also very common like people preferring to insult or do the "you're just too dumb" card than admitting their wrong

[haughty sonnet]

I don't think anyone is denying that the current state of the entire courthouse is unhealthy

[mighty timber]

We all agree on that, even if some protesting for potato seems to deny it

[maiden girder]

@shrewd pulsar has just advanced to level 5.

[azure forge]

Because you all complain about moderation and so they leave you guys to your mudslinging festival. Then when a report is made, someone gets warned and you all start screaming "1984". I figure there needed to be more moderator involvement to stamp out the bad behaviour at the start (when shad was featured on Sargons channel). The potato channels werent like this before then. The mods actually were firmer and kept it more orderly, so discussions could happen and have flow.

[haughty sonnet]

it is true that a main issue in the disputatios is that anyone with a different opinion than the 'regulars' so to speak get ganged up on massively

[mighty timber]

I think the mods being involved is when people do "1984"

But most of the time it's because the warns are from bots and kind of absurd

This attitude of "more regulation" is exactly why they're becoming more and more against the mods

[mighty timber]

Depends. I've seen very marginal people being able to express themselves in a very calm discussion, though those are rare.

And most of the one that become aggressive tend to be news or the same 2-3 regulars

[haughty sonnet]

Yeah, it's strange how the exact same ppl can tell us we don't moderate enough and also go "1984" whenever we do anything

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Often has to do with ppl refusing to report too. Last I checked my of Sauron was still in for repairs, so we can't know everything that happens and read the chat 24/7. So someone who is more likely to report issues, is more likely to have actions taken against others that misbehave...

[mighty timber]

In my experience they freak out the second I (so one of "them") want to call you

They really just want no moderation

[haughty sonnet]

Yeah, a lot of ppl don't want moderation, or it's only ever "fair" if it's moderator action agains someone from "the other side"

No moderation is not an option though 😛

[mighty timber]

Heck, at some point some people started to weaponize the calling of guards

started to call you the second they were loosing a debate and would invent an excuse

Though one of you ended up calling out one of those

[haughty sonnet]

I'm sure that happens, but still doesn't mean that valid reports shouldn't be made

[mighty timber]

It created a "culture" where you get gang up SERIOUSLY if you dare think about it

I mean, when Wol is one of the most calm about that (he doesn't really care), you have a problem

I think the line of trust between mods and users is almost completely broken and it's sort of the main problem

Toxic attitude is only in reaction to that

That I can't say. Only been posting here since march

[haughty sonnet]

Hmm yeah hold a grudge from 4 years ago without even knowing who you have a grudge against?

!serverinfo

bot bork? I was curious how old the server actually is by now lol

[mighty timber]

(insert Thanos "I don't even know who you are" meme)

That's....not really helpful

My goal is a good relationship between mods and users. This doesn't really help

[haughty sonnet]

Which is very weird because most of potato has been right wing it seems

[mighty timber]

Sort of have to give him that Spense

maybe, but I'm willing to try to change that

[haughty sonnet]

People tend to assume that, and actively make it worse by their attitude and the terms that they use. We want a good relationship, but people tend to go "mod bad" no matter what, or "1984" no matter what, these don't build any kind of relationship

[mighty timber]

Pyro, are you for that too?

[mighty timber]

got my answer

[azure forge]

Not really, its been a hell of a lot better the past year. The fact that you guys in the potatoes seem to think "freedom of speech or we "revolt"" is one of the main issue ive seen. As well as in both memes channels the NSFW posts getting warns and people bitching about that.

[haughty sonnet]

How does that even work, if we can't even favour them according to you...

Untrue

I've quite literally stated that we need better moderation in the courthouse, Which is absolutely true

[mighty timber]

It isn't really true, and if you really think that then I'm sorry but this doesn't apply to most I know. Most are angry at the inconsistent moderation with people doing death threats having no problem. What also ticks them is that those that get away are...let says more to the left than Mao

He did said what they could do

[mighty timber]

There I sort of disagree. Depending on what you mean by that

[haughty sonnet]

I mean you are the one claiming to know where everyone is politically

The mod team has had more than one conflicting view on things lol

Better moderation means being more on the ball, among other things.

We need to actually be there more often

Dude

did you ever consider

letting someone type

[mighty timber]

not surprising

[haughty sonnet]

stop being so negative

[mighty timber]

It would require a pretty long post to explain so give him some time

Yeah, that's the main complain

which is why I disagree with the "more regulation"

[haughty sonnet]

If we see more things we can handle more things, seeing as people refuse to report things.
We don't need more rules, we need them enforced more.

[mighty timber]

true

if by more regulation you mean that then I agree

I agree but you're a little bit biased right now

[haughty sonnet]

People think we're biased even if we're not, it's not necessarily just an 'us' issue.

[mighty timber]

Take 2min to calm down Spense

take a deep breathe

[azure forge]

Ive been watching all this stuff unfold since the sargon video, dude. Yes this is one if the main issues.you guys tend to think server rules do not apply to yourself yet as you said yourself, you guys (yourself included) weaponize the mods against other members. Thats quite toxic in itself. Moderation there seems to be one mod doing everything, while the other does nothing. Ive seen you guys break the potato rules yourself and get away with it, while a mod is there talking, so its definitely not a left vs right issue.

Moderation has gotten better, by a long shot, since my month long mute for arguing against a dumb idea that they thought was excellent.

[mighty timber]

I think some of you are totally okay. Andrew, for example, is very nice, Cookie and maybe as I'm seeing right now too

[haughty sonnet]

Often when people get a warning they will yell at us that x did worse, but they did refuse to let us know at the time, people just try to keep examples handy to "defend" themselves, rather than trying to create a better place by reporting rulebreakers

[mighty timber]

who's "you"?

Because I for example post "no personal attacks" all the time. People call me "the Canadian" because of that

[haughty sonnet]

Yeah it's not a left vs right issue, it's a we don't catch all of it and some ppl are just more likely to report issue, or at least, it's a big part of it

[mighty timber]

Basically why I say the trust is the real issue

The very aggressive and "left" people are far more likely to call you

so the "right", aggressive or moderate, sees you as more biased than you may be

[haughty sonnet]

Yeah there've been many times more than one user received a warning

however if you've been sitting on something for weeks to try and use as a defense... Just no.

[mighty timber]

Maybe an open and calm discussion with people of disputatio could help "rebuild" the trust

Spense, this has nothing to do with politics right now

Simple question of trust and attitude

Was this with the mods we have right now?

Or something that happened 3y ago?

[haughty sonnet]

Okay, give me some examples, if they're so abundant this is something I can look into. When and how often did we take action on weeks old stuff?

[mighty timber]

People would say me only getting a blocking

Though Cookie is starting to bring more nuance to the case in the report to me

[azure forge]

Calling avery an autst, was a personal attack, dude.

[haughty sonnet]

Those (potatobans, mutes, etc) are actions made by the combination of events, rather than just one specific thing, the internal discussions tend to take time on these. Let's look at warnings?

Well then not I guess

If this is how you think you're helping the server

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[maiden girder]

@shrewd pulsar has just advanced to level 6.

[mighty timber]

I was calling myself and autlst

I was saying "I'm too (insert word) for that"

I explained that already jester

[azure forge]

Thats not talking about yourself there, bud.

[mighty timber]

Yeah, you take the ONE time I've done that where I also apologised multiple time to Avery. You also forgot that this was after 3h of debate where Avery made A LOT of personal attacks

It still doesn't make it okay

[haughty sonnet]

Also So you've never put in more than a few minutes, seems easy to judge us with such little time invested

Could be just as much telling about you...

Judging a book by the cover without even knowing properly what's going on, most likely

[mighty timber]

Seriously, we can all scroll up the convo that day it wasn't a "beer decided to make a personal attack out of nowhere to an innocent man". Not justifying myself just pointing out exactly why people are angry right now. People take that single instance out of context and ignore all the things the other one did before

[haughty sonnet]

I gave you open arms to be able to bring up specific issues, and then you go "no you'll use it for bad", you don't really get to expect things from us then.

If that is your unrelenting view, and you don't want to work with us on improving this place, why are you even in this discussion?

[azure forge]

You can't say you havent done personal attacks then, dude, so take a step down off that high horse.

If he was making personal attacks why didnt you ask a mod to step in instead of escalating it further? This is what pyro was talking about where people don't do a simple @ to stop the problems where they need to be stopped. You were relatively new to posting on the server at this point so you cant say you distrusted the mods then.

[mighty timber]

Did I said that?

I said that I try to mitigate it from others

not that I'm a saint

[haughty sonnet]

You demand changes in ppls "bias", and you get to decide what and when "bias" is, pretty hard to work on

[mighty timber]

because it was my third day or first week and I felt it wasn't worth it seeing how no one acted like it was a big thing. Hell, every time I talk about calling a mod you have a lot just jumping on me.

[haughty sonnet]

however, specific instances, like you claiming we warn ppl for weeks old stuff when others use it to defend themselves, is something specific we cna look into and can cause change in the bigger picture

[mighty timber]

I was "influenced" by the attitude of the others

Btw, jester, I know you're not doing it on purpose but you're technically doing a straw man of me right now. I said I'm doing my best to mitigate it, not that I never did it. In fact, I do it sort of because of that one time

Because I don't remember saying that at all

[haughty sonnet]

You do realise it's a two way street right? You've been purposefully taking everything I say badly.

I never said I don't want to change moderation methods, you are just on about "bias" all day long, which doesn't help in the slightest

Okay, reply to one of those good answers then (so we can all find them), and we'll get into it

[mighty timber]

Some here are doing it but I don't think Pyro is one of them

[haughty sonnet]

Pretty sure Jester used to think that of me too xD

That I couldn't be talked with :p

[mighty timber]

He did mention it

I'm not pyro so I'll leave him explain himself

but not showing proof is kind of working against you (well from what I,ve seen)

Though I see your point

Should've started with that

This doesn't come off as wanting to talk

Pyro's gone anyway

[copper crane]

Doesnt mean no one is reading chat

[mighty timber]

You see the difference: one is more "I think" the other one is more "you are"

well, that isn't helping

"why are the mods acting like that?"

"better start lacking basic politeness to them"

I want peace, not war

[haughty sonnet]

Sounds like you think we are a police force with paid employees. News flash, we aren't. We are giving you a chance to work with us on things you think are actual issues, if you don't want to take that chance that's your choice, but then you don't need to try and discuss this.
If you do want to discuss things for real, let me know.

Also I'm having dinner so yeah I'm not reacting instantly

[mighty timber]

Kind of a good point

[haughty sonnet]

The problem is not that you have issues with the server, the problem seems to be a deeper rooted one of attitude, you want to pretend like you told us what's going on by going "hello I'd like to report a cime" and then hanging up the phone expecting the other end to know what's going on

[mighty timber]

He's just giving his point

[haughty sonnet]

You are the one saying nothing will change, nothing matters, and how you don't want to work with us to make this a better place

[mighty timber]

I never stop that

[haughty sonnet]

We are not police, and still, bad excuse

[mighty timber]

Because I believe in politeness and respect

[haughty sonnet]

It doesn't give you an excuse to be rude either way

Because when you're rude, you can't convince ppl for sure

In a debate or discussion resorting to rudeness never works

[mighty timber]

Pyro doesn,t sounds like a biased man right now tbh

[haughty sonnet]

No, not how politeness works...

[mighty timber]

Right now, in this convo, Pyro is in the right here

[haughty sonnet]

Only because you want to make it so, I've had plenty of fruitful discussions on the server. Yes even on things related to moderation and rules

[mighty timber]

no excuse for being rude

especially on discord

Pyro, this is what I mean by lack of trust

[haughty sonnet]

I said it is a needed aspect in the courthouse category

And if you disagree with that you want basically one mod to carry the category lol

[violet tundra]

Projecting much dude? We staff actually work rather hard to compromise with folks when they are polite and honest with us.

[haughty sonnet]

You are once again taking everything in bad faith

You expect a magical solution for everything

It's part of a solution yes for sure

There is no magical solution

And you are demanding there to be one

[mighty timber]

I think you should both take a break

This is going nowhere

[violet tundra]

You've openly admitted to not paying attention to anything but memes for like 3 years...

[haughty sonnet]

And all you have given is a troll, you even admitted you're only here because you're bored, and not because you want to help improve the server. I've given you plenty of chances to work with me, and you immediately go it won't matter anyway.

[copper crane]

I feel like you compleatly ignore that f. E. our ticketsystem is hidden and that we do a lot there, that we are open and talk to people (you cant check that within a few minutes), that we remove warns if they were unreasonable and else

[copper crane]

Yes, moderation has changed and we continue to try and improve

[ornate merlin]

@shrewd pulsar if I may be so bold, maintaining a healthy community is everyone's responsibility, not just the staff's. The staff responsibility is to take action. They are human though, can mess up, can fail, can do wrong, or just plain not see. You have been given an open invitation to provide direct evidence of your concerns. Not doing so because "it's not your job" misses the point of the word "community".

[mighty timber]

TBh, he's expressed a clear problem a lot of people feel

[copper crane]

We have feedbackforms where ye can give feedback, complain and do that even anonym if you really want to

Thats why we also have the public ticket system, where everyone can join

[violet tundra]

It clearly puts you in a position where you are complaining, and turning away attempts to reach out. you are acting pedantic for no reason at all. You clearly WANT to hate the mod staff and refuse to give anyone a chance here.

[copper crane]

But what else can we do? What do you propose we do to gain ppls trust? More moderation will lead to a backlash, as will less

[mighty timber]

I think rebuilding a relationship with people of the courthouse would be a good idea

An open and calm discussion about the reality of both for better understanding and trying to find common ground

I can organise that with the others

[copper crane]

Again, the change might not be seeable right away but it did.

[haughty sonnet]

!ban 83040510301700096 troll, going ree and mods bad without wanting to give meaningful input, only willing to complain that things are bad, not willing to work towards a solution. Being in important discussions just because you're bored with little to no meaningful input.

[paper plaza]

🔨 Banned SirSpence#8410 indefinitely

[mighty timber]

huh....Isn't that a little bit....Too much?

[copper crane]

Yes, ill keep that in mind/add it too propositions, thank you

[mighty timber]

No seriously. I can organise that if you want

[haughty sonnet]

I gave him multiple chances to work with us and he kept shitting on us.

[mighty timber]

wouldn't a mute have been better? The time he calms himself?

[copper crane]

I believe you. I added it to the propos

[haughty sonnet]

PSA: anyone who can't conduct themselves with some measure of respect does not get to join these discussions. A lot can be said, lots of things I disagree with have been said without repercussions, but there is a way to talk, and a way to just be rude.
If you're actively telling us how you won't work with us, or give specific instances to look in to whatsoever, we won't go on a wild goose chase either. If at every chance we give you to work with us you make rude remarks why are you in this suggestion topic? The mod team are regular users like anyone else, investing a lot of time to try and keep this place enjoyable for many people (not all, for that is an impossibility)

And really that doesn't just go for this discussion, respect is a basic rule for our entire server.

[mighty timber]

BTW, Pyro. I'm not an expert on moderation but isn't that ban gonna anger people even more?

[haughty sonnet]

Sure, but then we can't take any moderation actions either :p

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand, if anyone is willing to bring up specific issues rather than vague claims, we can work on that.

[mighty timber]

Wouldn't a mute be better?

Like, the time that he comes to his sense? Would show a will to increase relations

[haughty sonnet]

This isn't the only channel he's been doing this.

[mighty timber]

I see

explains a lot more

[haughty sonnet]

He's actually even been doing it in unrelated channels

So I decided to give him many chances here

And he took nil

Actually ties in with this as well

Demanding solutions and being unwilling to give information you clearly have and are complaining about

Would doing like proper debates work? Idk, we find a topic, 2 or 3 ppl to discuss it, and a dedicated person to keep them in check, dedicated time for each person. No idea if anyone would be interested, but it could show how debates/discussions can also be done with some more respect than our 'avg disputatio convo'

I guess that's less potato memes butt we were on about courthouse as a whole for quite a bit

Would probably also be quite hard in practice but hey :p

Or silly topics day, where we discuss whether or not bananas are banana shaped, idk, force something lighthearted in there xD

[mighty timber]

I think it would require too much work for you

btw, Pyro, this is what I meant by making people more angry. I'll try to mitigate the damage but understand what I mean by lack of trust

They think you've banned him for his opinion

[haughty sonnet]

Then they should've followed the conversation a bit more.

[mighty timber]

Yeah but see that's the case: most are only looking at 1 or 2 channels

[haughty sonnet]

Of course, and now they're already judging without the proper context

But does that mean we shouldn't take moderation actions?

[mighty timber]

I'm calming things with private messages

[haughty sonnet]

If they want some info they are free to go in #reports

[mighty timber]

No, but this is why I think recreating a trust between you and them is the priority. Or maybe creating a sort of group that is a link between mods and users that them are trusted by both sides

If you don't then you're gonna have a "revolt" whatever you do

[mighty timber]

asking too much from them

[haughty sonnet]

Trust is important, but there has to be goodwill from both sides or it'll never work.

Realistically mods are still users, idk how adding another convoluted layer in between can really help

If anything I've been consolidating the staff grouping rather than creating different tiers

[mighty timber]

I don't claim to have THE solution. I just really think trust is the big issue

[haughty sonnet]

I do genuinely believe that if ppl just reported properly, the feeling of uneven enforcement would be halved

I'm not saying it'd all be solved, but it'd help, and in that way, trust could also go up a smidge

But that requires user action, and we need a way that comes from the staff team, butt I wouldn't really know what kinda magic we can do :p

[mighty timber]

I really think an open conversation where you both sides explain your position like you're doing right now would help

At least it would show a will to listen to them

[haughty sonnet]

I've been trying that for days and hours in this thread alone :P

[mighty timber]

I'm talking outside the server

So they won't have the "mods abuse" fear

In an organised time so that they all come

[haughty sonnet]

If they truly fear that, they can still get mod abuse even if it didn't happen on the server...

Butt yeah sure, what are you suggesting then, exactly

[mighty timber]

I could organise a reunion between like the most prominent users and the mod team. It would be regulated by like me or any outside source to keep it calm

[azure forge]

Youre one of the people in the one group, shouldn't be you, dude.

[mighty timber]

They hate me because I'm talking to pyro right now

And yes, it could be someone else

[haughty sonnet]

And realistically, I don't have that much to say either lol, I think I made clear how I think we could get a good start, now it's their turn to say something specifically that they think we can do to improve the situation

And we can then both try that one thing

[azure forge]

So? Doesnt mean you wont skew it to gain favour back.

[mighty timber]

That attitude is basically the one they have with the mods right bow

They don't trust them and so are not willing to discuss

[haughty sonnet]

I think Jester is an expert on not trusting mods

Believe it or not, it's very rare to see Jester actually defending the mods lol

Might be the first time in the server history? xD

[mighty timber]

Glad to have assisted to such a. Moment

[haughty sonnet]

You'll know how much that means once you hit lvl 100 :P

Anyhow yeah, idk how we could really do this but definitely an interesting idea, we need to get talks somehow

But there needs to be respect at the basis or it won't work

[mighty timber]

I can take care of that, or at least propose the idea to them with your conditions. I don't think it would bother them

[haughty sonnet]

Also this one wouldn't be too hard, if anyone would care is something else xD

[ornate merlin]

If you are interested in discussing this let me know, I have a suggestion that may or may not work for you ( I recognize this thread may not be the appropriate place but you tell me where and I will be happy to share).

[drowsy pivot]

Did the "it will come back" just turn into "it will never come back"?
Ice9Ninja#7640 (ID 424508929813381130)
⚠Warned Najann#4921 (ID 372131203467313163)
📄Reason: Reason: Political memes are no longer allowed on this server or this channel. Rule 1.6, see channel description.

[mighty timber]

huh?

when? how? where?

[unkempt marten]

U know, it would help to go look back at that.

Just saying.

Cuz I did clarify.

[drowsy pivot]

I posted here first before I posted in memes

[unkempt marten]

I understand. However, I rephrased and clarified.

[mighty timber]

Could I have an explanation then?

[unkempt marten]

It’s a political meme that doesn’t belong in memes.

Simple as.

[solid prawn]

I don’t know why we need a potato-memes channel. Last I checked there was a little bit of lenience to mentioning politics in a meme as long as it’s clearly just humorous and not propaganda. And if you want to express a viewpoint just debate like normal lol

[maiden girder]

@solid prawn has just advanced to level 17.

[solid prawn]

Practice might be different idk, but I assume you can have a picture of Obama or something without it being labelled too provocative or ideological for #memes

[mighty timber]

problem was like 3-4 people spamming pretty....let say hardcore memes

[solid prawn]

Yes whatever that is I doubt we need it in the server

[mighty timber]

like for example "funny" memes being simply "rich=bad, kill bad"

[solid prawn]

Idk, seems like potato-memes was always crap though

[mighty timber]

IDK, I've only been active here since march

[unkempt marten]

As long as it’s not a topic raiser… like corporations focusing on people who identify with LGBT only in the month of July.

[solid prawn]

Like they’re not that funny because they’re completely political humour, and since it’s a meme chat you can’t even debate them

[solid prawn]

Fair

Tbh that type of meme in #potato-memes only ever caused controversy that people showed through reactions or counter memes anyway

Yeah, idk, I think the text channels are fine

[mighty timber]

most would debate about them in disputatio

[covert root]

I make a conscious effort to be more homophobic every June

"Gay" is the standard insult or word for something I dont like

[mighty timber]

Mostly to say "dude...you're outright calling out for violence. WTF?"

[unkempt marten]

This is for suggestions and discussion of those suggestions. Not random comments.

[sweet kiln]

Because that is such a bad thing?

Oh wow reactions

Counter memes

[unkempt marten]

It is once memes r involved that subtract from what the channel is used for…

[sweet kiln]

I knew the potato meme chat would be killed permanently

[unkempt marten]

Not saying it will be.

[covert root]

I'm suggesting we all make an effort to be extra homophobic next month
It could be a server-wide event!

[sweet kiln]

The moment it was "temp removed" it was obvious what would happen next.

[unkempt marten]

Just stop… your trolling isn’t helpful or needed.

[sweet kiln]

You don't need to, you all hate the channel. That alone means it is gone or it will be retooled and thus not the same channel.

You just hated the channel so you removed it

[covert root]

[sweet kiln]

Simple as

[unkempt marten]

Did I say that? When did I say that?

[sweet kiln]

You don't need to say that

Just because you don't say a thing doesn't mean it isn't obvious.

Everyone on staff has criticized the chat

Nothing on anything redeeming

Nothing positive

You hate it, you removed it. Go ahead and say as much so at least you are transparent.

[unkempt marten]

I didn’t say that. I didn’t hate it. The reason it got booted for the week is because people seemed to forget what it’s for…

[sweet kiln]

As I said you didn't have to say it.

Again, I have yet to hear anything positive from any staff member at all.

2 and 2 make 4

[unkempt marten]

Didn’t figure I needed to. Seems unimportant since I say nothing important for any other channel.

[sweet kiln]

No, you saw some content you didn't like or that was bannable and instead of simply addressing the problem the mods saw it as excuse to axe the channel.

Not just you personally

The whole damn team.

Nobody has said eh, well it had some good memes from time to time.

[unkempt marten]

I don’t say that for #memes either…

[sweet kiln]

No we could bring it back if we addressed X problem

Nothing productive

Only, people said hateful stuff

Only people said rule breaking stuff

Problematic posts

No suggestions to fix the problem.

Beyond telling people to shut up or quit whining

So the only conclusion is the channel was universally despised by the mods so you jumped on the opportunity you saw to justify it's deletion.

[unkempt marten]

Hmm. That’s a good theory. Wrong. But good try.

[sweet kiln]

No, its accurate

It's implicit

[sweet kiln]

It couldn't have been deleted for problematic posts

Unless you were simply to lazy to enforce rules.

Then it's even worse

[unkempt marten]

It could have actually. We could have seen the culmination of problematic memes and deleted it.

[sweet kiln]

Bullshit

Culmination, my ass. Ban the offenders

Don't nuke the channel

You could have done that

[ornate merlin]

Can I ask why the channel is so important to you? It’s just a meme channel.

[unkempt marten]

So we ban everyone who didn’t follow the potato memes rules from potato memes and then when they spill over?

[sweet kiln]

Oh it's not particularly, I just don't like the fact that it was deleted without transparency or a sufficient reason.

The channel itself had some good memes to harvest

But plenty bad

[sweet kiln]

No, I mean when you see a meme that is calling for violence or actively racist, have the user delete the meme and warn them

If they do it again ban them.

[unkempt marten]

Do you know what warns are for in this server?

[ornate merlin]

So my limited understanding from watching this chat is there was a fundamental mismatch on who was reporting who to staff in the potato meme channel. That may or may not have led to inconsistent enforcement of rules. If that is the case it is possible the mods had incomplete info when they saw a need to take action. Not saying what they did was right or wrong, but I am saying I think this situation may be more complicated than you are suggesting in your messages. If my assumption is correct I think asking for clear info from the staff about why the channel was deleted, and what are some considerations that would need to be taken to bring it back would be more helpful than just metaphorically yelling at them about what they may or may not have implied.

[mighty timber]

This is why I propose a meeting with the staff. So that those things could be explained in more detail. Though unlike you I assume good-will from both sides

I think there's a lack of understanding from both sides

[ornate merlin]

As someone new to the server who does have little community management experience there is clearly some miscommunication somewhere. Either in how issues are reported to mods, or how users see/understand moderator actions, or both potentially. There also should be some recognition that moderating a server this large, with this many active weekly users, must be challenging.

That doesn’t give mods a free pass, just trying to recognize what I see as the reality of the situation as I perceive it.

[mighty timber]

There's a big problem with the report system that was explained yesterday. If you want I can explain it again

It's more a problem of trust in good-will of the mods more than about this channel specifically

[ornate merlin]

I was there for it, just trying to stay out of the weeds in interest of focusing on the conversation tone. I think a meeting will be a better place to cover and analyze the details.

[mighty timber]

I'm just hesitating because it could be long and I don't want to devolve too much for the system

[ornate merlin]

This seems like an accurate take… not sure how it got here but that does seem to be a huge part of the problem if not the problem.

[mighty timber]

IMO it's THE problem. That problem is one impact of it

There's also a talk about disputatio and mod regulation going on right now

If the trust relationship isn't rebuilt, then the mods will have a backflash whatever they do

[ornate merlin]

Hopefully membership and staff can reach an understanding sooner rather than later then.

[mighty timber]

I've proposed the discussion idea and the mods will talk about it next meeting. Time only will tell us now

But seeing how potatolord just acted shows me a lack of trust. Justified or not. So acting quickly may be a good idea

[sweet kiln]

This happens I suspect a decent chunk of people will leave.

Myself included

I am here for like 4 channels, disputatio, memes, media discussion, and video games. With the occasional post of something I do in a game or something.

Disputatio, is interesting and if it gets regulated it WILL become one sided. It WILL only allow specific sides of the political discussion.

[sweet kiln]

There is no trust of the mods because they take wide reaching moves with no warning or announced reasoning. And when they give reasoning it is BS half the time.

[sweet kiln]

If they struggle to manage the server then they should not have the job or hire help. Plain and simple, if they cannot moderate one channel to the point they see that it is better to remove it than try then they should simply be replaced with those who can.

[sweet kiln]

I have yet to have a truly good reason to talk with the mods. I have no reason to assume good will because from my perspective they almost always go the extreme route when it comes to enforcement.

They also appear to have an obvious left leaning political bias.

Which means biased enforcement

[sweet kiln]

I am of the opinion that if their information is incomplete then no action should have be taken.

And from my perspective asking them what it would take to bring the channel back is pointless because they won't do it.

[sweet kiln]

As well they should.

[haughty sonnet]

If that were the case it would've been gone months ago

[haughty sonnet]

You might want to actually read up on what's been said

You seem to be just here to 'mod bad' and not even read what was said.

[haughty sonnet]

I did actually say that there were some gems in there

[tame cypress]

so whats the conclusion of suggestion? potato memes back in few months?

potato memes will always be non PC and toxic, if not, they would be normal memes

political memes are focused on politics and politics can be violent and heated issue anyday

so if mods don't want such content, potato should never be back

I see no reason to ban it tho, it's just discord. just make a special role for potato memes, so that normal visitors will not see it

and it will make people happy to continue shitposting
potato memes will never be civil and nice, even grown up politicians are bunch of turd flinging monkeys (pardon my french)

[tame cypress]

this is just fake news

95% of memes in potatoland were right wing propaganda

I mean we had memes with support for suicide of gays/trans

[copper crane]

Potatomemes back in maybe a week or a bit more as far as im concerned

[mighty timber]

I said it was around 3-4 spamming those. The majority were right/left moderate. Though in the end "the left can't meme" was spammed a lot too

[mighty timber]

If we do talk and realise that their reasons are indeed bullshit. Then I'll agree. I'm just newer so I'm more willing to give a chance

[tawdry void]

Hello everyone, I've seen there was a lot of discussion going on today. Has something changed about the potota meme discussion/situation ?

[mighty timber]

Not really no

[tawdry void]

ok

[solid prawn]

If it’s coming back it should at least be reformed

Meme propaganda that only serves to insult groups (there was a lot of this), and which is already banned under existing respect and civility rules, should be removed. I expect all of us know how to read between the lines and find this sort of thing

[mighty timber]

I agree on that

[solid prawn]

And I don’t see why people shouldn’t be allowed to talk a little bit in there

Let people debate, that’s what the channel is for. Threads could be an answer

[mighty timber]

because people ended up just talking

[tawdry void]

from the little I've seen of the channel (since I am still very new to the server) it's only recently that it became very chaotic and unfunny things (the "kill the rich" things for example) began to appear

[maiden girder]

@tawdry void has just advanced to level 7.

[mighty timber]

I'm also pretty recent and same experience

[solid prawn]

I don’t think that’s as big a problem as what people in this channel have already mentioned. If you start criticising and being rude to social groups and stuff in #gatehouse that gets a warning, but in #potato-memes it seems people can sort of use a front of personal opinion to get around it. But it’s possible to be respectful even if you disapprove of people

[mighty timber]

Yeah, problem is that it happened a lot from a certain side and it started to leak in other channels such as disputatio

[solid prawn]

Like it’s a common thing to see some sort of anti-LGBT meme (as one example) get like 30 thumbs up reactions. Not even a debate or a position, just criticising. That’s not all the content but I thought that was a bit unnecessary

[mighty timber]

Like I said, pretty recent but I only saw that once and it was dunked on

While there was at least 2-3 "kill evil rich" per day

not just "I hate", it was call to violence

The lgbt meme was more a "gay people dumb", not a call for murder

[cunning garnet]

as a whole the server definitely leans more towards central right-wing, or what's known in america as "centrist"

[mighty timber]

Agree

Which is EXTREMELY rare on discord

[cunning garnet]

not in my experience

ime it's either like this or "virtue capitalism"

or just a true cesspit of racism, homophobia, contrarianism and man-made horrors beyond comprehension

anyway i think it'd be a shame to see the potato memes go but i can definitely see why they'd do it

[mighty timber]

I only see that on chan

or has jokes made by those same minorities

[cunning garnet]

this happens occasionally in this server, as it does in most servers of this size with a mod team which is set up like this

^ to the mods, this is not shade, just an observation

(most servers this size have a more "professional" mod team with people getting paid, vetted and evaluated regularly, this being because most servers this size are either part of a larger organisation or fandoms of successful streamers and tubers who dedicate time and money to something like this, which let's face it shad is too niche for)

[cunning garnet]

i could invite you to a few if you want

[mighty timber]

No thank you

[cunning garnet]

👌

[mighty timber]

I don't use social media that much and I already live in a country where walking is ableist

[cunning garnet]

i see

[mighty timber]

For our government, honking means Hail Hitler

[cunning garnet]

i... see

[solid prawn]

The rich aren’t really a victimised or coherent group, yeah like there shouldn’t be any ‘kill x group’ at all but when there is an unwelcoming environment for people in actual groups that can never find a break on the internet, it’s hardly the main issue

[mighty timber]

Are you saying violence or threat is okay if it's towards certain people?

Victimized or not saying you want to kill x people isn't okay

This attitude of killing the rich is hardly uncommon. Especially on discord or tlreddit

Because this doesn't get an immediate ban unlike for some groups

[prisma mango]

For example of I were to say, "kill all g*ys", that would get me into a lot of trouble

But "kill the rich"? Absolutely acceptable I guess

At least that's what the companies seem to imply with their rules

[mighty timber]

I'm sorry pence but this logic is extremely flawed and I dare say dangerous especially since most of us are probably bourgeois or at least middle class. So pretty rich

[solid prawn]

Yeah pretty sure it’s about millionaires and billionaires

[mighty timber]

Well guess what: no. Most were not specifying that

[tame cypress]

as a leftie I support this. millionaires and richer are targets of social upheaval