How to use ZAP

[tidal flower]

guys im making an m1 system rn (learning scripting) but idk how to use utility libraries such as janitor, zap and knit but how can i use zap?

i'm new to using utility libraries so if anyone could help / send tutorial on how to use ZAP or the utilies then i would be happy

i know there is something with an IDL for network generation, but i don't know how a correct IDL would look like

using zappy plugin ^

[feral fulcrum]

you don't need any of that to make a beginner m1.

[feral fulcrum]

never fit your game to your tools. always do the opposite. fit your tools to your game. you wouldn't use profilestore to manage sounds, would you? same applies to your ideas of using zap. if you don't know how you could use zap with what you're making, you're probably reaching for the wrong tool in the first place.

[tidal flower]

I mean yeah i know, but my issue is it's buggy and not optimized / organized nor polished

and these utility libraries's purposes are to help organize

let me show u what i made without any help / libraries

[feral fulcrum]

it's your first m1 of course it's going to be buggy, not optimized / organized nor polished. fixing that is obvious - spend more time and effort on it.

add more content to it and find where it fails, and fix the weak points

if it doesn't feel write after playtesting, focus on those areas

[tidal flower]

the issue is, in my eyes the code looks perfect, but in game it's weak

and i don't know where it's weak

nor what's causing it

[feral fulcrum]

don't just brush the whole thing with such a broad stroke of "its bad because it doesn't use X" no, it's bad because you're wasting time optimizing something that you haven't made a game out of yet.

[feral fulcrum]

yeah you dont know where it's weak coz not done yet

[tidal flower]

Let me show u what i got

[feral fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/rickandmorty-showme-gif-7658980

[tidal flower]

file loading

@feral fulcrum What do you think of this?

still gotta make knockback and stuff

@feral fulcrum

[feral fulcrum]

so like i was saying, you have one singular "mechanic" if you can even call it that. you have nothing that even remotely resembles a game with it.

and you're trying to optimize it?

take what you got and add more to it

[tidal flower]

i got a question

How can i make a melee combat system?

Like the dagger sticking to the hand, and etc

[feral fulcrum]

you may as well just be broadly asking "how do i use roblox studio"

i'm not sure what answer you're expecting other than "with code bro"

[tidal flower]

i wanna learn advanced coding

and all of the good scripters use the libraries

[feral fulcrum]

so you want to learn advanced coding when you haven't finished the basics?

[feral fulcrum]

they have games you do not and it's not because of the libraries, it's because they finished what they had

rinse repeat

[tidal flower]

i already learn the basics

[feral fulcrum]

and yet you have no knockback

https://tenor.com/view/where-you-at-gif-21177622

basics where

[tidal flower]

alright fair enough, i'll finish this and i want to know ur feedback

[feral fulcrum]

no

finishing means you have a game

not you added one line of code

[feral fulcrum]

where is map, where is npc spawn zone or spawn waves, where is ui / HUD / where are menus? where are abilities? where is block, dash, sprint?

you have m1 -> animation + hitbox

and literally nothing else

you probably don't even have sounds

add more stuff to your game, i cannot stress how simple it really is.

[tidal flower]

The thing is, i'm not making a game here, i'm practising and i want to learn how to make it not so buggy, because last time i made a combat system and playtested and it was shit, full of bugs i don't know how to fix, where it came from nor nothing

[tidal flower]

i also dont know what to add / make a game out of

i don't have an idea

[feral fulcrum]

you're not listening, i'm being very serious. Make a bad game

[tidal flower]

what's the point of it if i can't learn from my mistakes?

answeer that and i'll do a full game

with mechanics

[feral fulcrum]

you won't learn anything if you don't make mistakes in the first place

[tidal flower]

i wont learn if i dont know whats causing the mistake

[feral fulcrum]

this is extremely easy. just pick one small thing, and add it to your game. then pick one more thing and add that. rinse repeat and eventually you have a game

[tidal flower]

and i have no clue on how to make stuff like example lets say, an iron man game where u can fly

[feral fulcrum]

well maybe you're trying to do something that is way outside of your league, and ngl, proper combat mechanics is not beginner friendly

[tidal flower]

i can't do that, i would have to rely on help which is bad

[feral fulcrum]

you can't just go oh i think i'm going to make The Strongest Battlegrounds because it looks so simple and easy! and then snap your fingers and you suddenly know everything that goes into making one.

[feral fulcrum]

yeah exactly, you're jumping into the middle of the ocean and expecting not to drown

[tidal flower]

What can i do to improve my mindset

[feral fulcrum]

"plz ocean dont drown me im new >beg beg beg" and the ocean, being the fricken ocean, what do you think is going to happen

[feral fulcrum]

i just told you in about 5 different ways

[feral fulcrum]

i cannot make it simpler than this.

Make bad games.

if you cannot make a bad game, what makes you think you can make a good one?

[tidal flower]

u got a point, i'll give u that

[feral fulcrum]

it really, really is that simple.

[tidal flower]

but by making bad games continuesly

how can i improve?

/ learn from mistakes

it's confusing

[feral fulcrum]

just keep making bad games and eventually you'll have encountered and solved enough problems to know how to make a good game

like

[tidal flower]

like what if im doing a bad practice in the code, and i think it's good

[feral fulcrum]

totally fine

[tidal flower]

also my friend told me i can ask him questions to learn, but not to the point where he's doing the code for me, that's also good right?

[feral fulcrum]

eventually you will discover some decisions you made were bad, and when that does happen, you will understand why it is bad

[tidal flower]

Although experience comes with understanding it much better

[tidal flower]

so at which point should i start using those libraries

and give me some game ideas to make

[feral fulcrum]

no

dude

there are no shortcuts to this

in fact, at this stage, using libraries will make your life substantially more difficult

i would go as far to say the only library beginners should be using is profilestore, but only because it solves a bunch of the advanced datastore problems that beginners can't handle.

like retries, session locking, teleport signaling

[tidal flower]

so when do i use it?

i'm so confused

i know there's no shortcuts

[feral fulcrum]

when you have a need for it, you understand that need well, and you understand the library itself and exactly how and why you need it.

[tidal flower]

but i wanna know why the advanced scripters use it then

[tidal flower]

i understand janitor pretty good and thought it could be an awesome help in helping to organize

[feral fulcrum]

no libraries are not going to help you

[feral fulcrum]

generally because a problem has been encountered enough times that a packaged solution to it fits the best

you don't know what you don't know

you in particular

[tidal flower]

What do they do then

[feral fulcrum]

like just as an example, i understand bytenet and how and why it would be used. i don't use it because i dont need it.

or frankly i'd make my own

using the library is more work than it is worth to solve the problems that my game is faced with

[tidal flower]

And also, if i just make bad games, will that help me expand my knowledge in different categories such as a TD system?

[feral fulcrum]

it's easier to not use the library

but that could change at a later time as things develop. doesn't mean i need to start with it.

[feral fulcrum]

yes.

you will learn all sorts of different things about game dev and scripting

like with a tower defense game, you might start with placing towers - how do you do that? well break it down. can you place a block?

if you can't place a block, learn how to do that.

now turn the block into a model.

now make the block find nearby humanoids and make them take damage.

[tidal flower]

I have a friend who's advanced in scripting, he makes his own framework, and etc and he told me i should learn Zap, make my own framework not use knit nor bridgenet, and he told me it helps him organize and optimize better for systems

[feral fulcrum]

now make the block emit sounds when it shoots

now make the block have a gui when you click on it

now make the gui have an upgrade button (no cost)

now you have a gui with an upgrade button and you want to add a cost - so add something to track player money, and add that to your (already completed) upgrade button.

now make the tower look different on each level.

now make it emit a different sound on each level.

[tidal flower]

And i want to use the libraries, because i've been stuck on basic coding for a long time

[tidal flower]

yeah i see the vision now

[feral fulcrum]

and now you have your first tower

[tidal flower]

but my issue is

[feral fulcrum]

all of game dev is these tiny incremental steps

[feral fulcrum]

you have "placed a block" and are asking "DO I NEED A LIBRARY NOW??"

[tidal flower]

example what can i do to learn / acknowledge on example how to make the tower shoot something

[tidal flower]

no that's not i'm saying

ykw forget it

[feral fulcrum]

i'm paraphrasing ;o

[feral fulcrum]

i know, a lot of people are like that, particularly in roblox dev channels

the reality is this is bad advice

[tidal flower]

Ok listen

this is my final wonder

[tidal flower]

^

how can i achieve something i have no clue of

is getting help bad?

like from youtube, just to learn what should be used

and then remake it in my own way

and not copying

[feral fulcrum]

like the tower example, you'd go from merely placing a block, to a fully fledged shooting tower, you break it down into tiny steps

[feral fulcrum]

making the tower shoot something has 3 parts, the tower, the shooting, and the thing to shoot at probably an npc.

you already now have 3 small things to focus on separate from each other

[tidal flower]

Yes but, is getting help from youtube to understand what the back end is for the system bad?

Like if i need help understanding something i would ask someone or search on google

if i need help on doing something i'll watch a youtube tut, UNDERSTAND & Acknowledge it then Remake it in my own way by what i understood from the tutorial

WITHOUT copy paste / copy

[feral fulcrum]

so alongside just simply accepting that what you're going to make is going to be bad, that's totally fine. no one's first game was perfect 👍 probably the second most important part is where and how to get your information and how to apply it. follow breaking down the problem again.

like with the shooting, you'd look up a tutorial how to find the closest player to a position, for example.

[tidal flower]

oh yeah

Okay now

[feral fulcrum]

then another tutorial for how to make shooting effects

[tidal flower]

can u give me an idea to make

i wanna accomplish making a game for once

[feral fulcrum]

+1 jump/sec

i'm serious

[tidal flower]

i saw a vid on yt where the guy got his game from super un optimized to very optimized just with continuing

stopping is bad

[tidal flower]

alright

thanks man

[feral fulcrum]

make +1jump/sec without looking up a tutorial on exactly how to make precisely that

[tidal flower]

my point here is i wasn't here to argue, my point was seeking help on the things i never understood

now it's all solved

[feral fulcrum]

instead break it down into the smaller components, like how to make the player jump higher, how to make savedata, and how to make player press a button

[tidal flower]

yes

[feral fulcrum]

how to spawn a jump tower

how to make things show on leaderboard

[tidal flower]

Can you add me back? i would like to share my journey with u

[feral fulcrum]

all of these small incremental steps eventually add up to a game; arguably greater than the sum of its parts. but you still have no game without all of its small parts.

[tidal flower]

Yeah

[tidal flower]

^

[feral fulcrum]

i'm not looking to tutor anyone, just passing by

[tidal flower]

I won't be asking for tutor

nor help

i just want to show u my accomplishment throughout

[feral fulcrum]

+1jump/sec is a very very simple game with very few mechanics. i could make it in a day, but you probably couldn't

but they set the foundation on which all other games are built like how to work with the player's character

because what if its not jump power, but actually it's applying physics force to their character in knockback?

all of these little skills are transferrable all over the place

and just to press the point home, i'm not suggesting you do anything I have not already done myself. https://www.roblox.com/games/14238459158

[tidal flower]

alright

[rustic saddle]

Read the docs. It’s in the web

https://zap.redblox.dev/

There is setup and everything. And if you don’t want the executable (or not a manager for such) then you can just translate it by the web

[slate moss]

** You are now Level 3! **