💡 Proposition of an idea recently proposed to Quintivium regarding the revamp of the marketplace....

[minor wigeon]

Please discuss this idea civilly, don't forget to vote on this idea in #📝︱server-suggestions!

[livid lily]

NOT reading allat

[wraith cypress]

Very helpful

👍

[pallid loom]

I strongly agree with ur suggestion

and will support it

[wraith cypress]

As I said, the goal is to find the weaknesses behind the suggestion, in order to make it even better

We need votes 🔥

.
What matters....

It is the opinion of the Big Boss @cedar plume

He is wise

And he like long texts

[half wigeon]

The whole reason laissez-faire (which would be great given all these subjective assignments of value, as that delegates the responsibility on an individual basis) wasn't working was because what are generally considered lower quality offers would crowd out higher quality ones. If you just had a way to search and display listings by criteria (like the Talent Hub), that issue is resolved, and the original system works fine

In other words, I think the marketplace issues would be fixed if we just had a way to sort them. Then lower quality offers receive no attention, and thus are discouraged, and higher quality offers are not drowned out by quantity of lower quality listings

[wraith cypress]

But we can't change a person's opinion of a payment.

We have let things go many times and know that solutions without forcing the user or block him from doing so, don't works

With this system we are forcing the user to basic minimum prices which are fair and which can increase

Now, I'm a generalist and I know the difficulty behind every job.

But a scripter doesn't know how much work an animator does and therefore can't know how much it would be fair to pay him

.
Leaving aside the kids......

[real hamlet]

you

are

nit

don

don dont talk english

[wraith cypress]

Am i speaking english?

[livid lily]

whatthe fuck

[real hamlet]

opera going crazy

[pallid loom]

https://tenor.com/view/icant-nope-micdrop-bugs-bunny-sing-gif-4837989

[wraith cypress]

@half wigeon I know that some users don't have an excellent financial situation so I don't know they can afford to pay a Dev more than 500 robux per month, but in the end the marketplace is like a shop, if you go to buy a coca cola, you can't expecting to pay 5 cents instead of 1 dollar because you don't have the money, you just don't buy it.

Also you mentioned bot or website.
The idea was to add a bot that automatically did the calculation after you selected from the given options, like if you choose scripter, advanced system, etc.... The bot would do the calculation automatically and would have warned the user that it is not possible to post the post because the price is lower than the minimum

[livid lily]

so real

[wraith cypress]

.
If someone tries to bypass the system by sending dm users have the right and duty to notify a mod.

While if someone tries to bypass into a normal channel, the normal procedures will apply, so verbal warn > warn > etc...

.

.
In the end

I haven't written it yet in this chat

But as I said with the other mods, for every problem there is a solution.

.
.
My goal, since I posted this suggestion, as I also said at the beginning, is not that you accept or decline

Accepting the suggestion give support and it's good, but my main goal was that people, like you are doing, wrote on the thread to complain and say why they think it doesn't work,what needs to be improved, etc...

[livid lily]

gladius aare u depressed

[wraith cypress]

So that we can take everything into consideration and find the weak points to implement

[livid lily]

elimniate ??!??!

[wraith cypress]

.

[half wigeon]

Right, your Coca-Cola example is true. But, there is nothing preventing you (physically speaking) from taking the bottle anyway, leaving 5 cents, and running out the door, which is exactly what people are doing all the time in the marketplace currently.

[wraith cypress]

They will be punished

As is the case now

We punish people who hire or sell in channels other than the marketplace

[half wigeon]

Right, that's correct, which is why I deleted those messages. I realized that your suggestion was seeking to resolve legitimate posts under the current rules, but which are nonetheless absurd because the rules are inadequate. It was not a matter of preventing people from making illegitimate posts and minimizing their impact on everyone else, as I originally thought.

[wraith cypress]

For the same thing but in the dm we'll think a bit, maybe we could add a rule that goes against the scammed user and not just against the scammer.

In this way the user will think twice before accepting a DM from someone who wants to hire him but who doesn't have access to the marketplace or has never published anything on the marketplace.

.
The revamp of the marketplace makes sense that it not only wraps itself in the 4 channels of the marketplace but throughout the server, implementing everything related to the marketplace, therefore beyond the 4 channels also resolve who posts outside the marketplace, who sends messages in dm,

.
But for now we start with the price system, which seems to me to be the most complicated and important

[gilded vale]

I ain’t reading allat

Will still upvote tho :)

[wraith cypress]

.-.

[wraith cypress]

wasn't this my objective....

[pallid loom]

Too bad

we like it

[raven haven]

wow a pretty detail suggestion

pretty rare

doe i will middle vote for now till i find all flaws

i dont upvote without a good reason

so flaws that should be considered:

Complexity: Having different payment systems across channels could create confusion for buyers who need to understand and compare pricing structures when seeking assets or hiring services.

Shitty New members in server: Most people who use the marketplace is now new members getting to level 5 as soon as possible to use the marketplace. if a lot of members pass through the level 5 moderation i can definitely assure you that a person who cannot read the server rules correctly wont understand shit about constants in general.

Mindset: Users may still feel that the calculated minimum prices are insufficient, especially if they believe their work or assets have higher value. This could negatively impact the overall perception of the marketplace.

User rank: Introducing user rank as a factor in considering the minimum price raises concerns about fairness and bias. It could create a leadership within the marketplace, favoring higher-ranked users and potentially discouraging new or lower-ranked participants.

Inconsistency: Having different payment systems across channels may lead to confusion and inconsistency. Users find it difficult to understand why the same type of work or asset has different minimum prices based on the channel they use.

---

there will be some mathmatical problems with this system but it will take me time to think of its flaws

[wraith cypress]

Oh, someone who writes detailed answers without complaining about long text 😯

Ok....

So.....

[raven haven]

Think Different

[wraith cypress]

Complexity : I had thought of a nice bot 🙂
Knowing that in this server people have serious math problems since 1+1=3, there will be a bot, with which people talk in dm, where after deciding step by step who they want hire, and some constant like map dinension, or if it's an hard script,etc ..... The bot will automatically calculate the minimum price and warn the user that it is not possible to publish his post because the payment is too low

[raven haven]

tbh at that point this suggestion is just some bullcrap just copy hidden devs

but no

thats not our point

that was the first reason we are not using bots for marketplace

we want to give devs freedom

i just think this suggestion is not stable enough for a community with majourity of 12 year olds

@wraith cypress will you join that with me

🫳

[wraith cypress]

wait

[wraith cypress]

I have so much to discuss 🙂

[raven haven]

oh what meex is back

i just saw

[wraith cypress]

I've never used hidden devs but I think they have a system where users make their post and then the moderators have to accept it.

Our system will be different because users will be forced to follow the rules, so whether a user is a 3-year-old child or a 21-year-old adult, we are forcing them to set a minimum price, which must be met if they want to post.

Furthermore, in our system, since we are forcing users to follow the rules,it means that the system from the point of view of the posts, there will be no warns because a person can't forgot to write exclusive or not , or because the minimum price is not respected.

In this way the post can go directly from the user's dm to the appropriate channel in the server, thus limiting the work of the moderators in checking each post and giving them more time to do something else, both for their personal life and in trying to improve other on the server

[raven haven]

did u just suggest a way to lower your moderation work

🤨

hm wait let me write a essay too

[wraith cypress]

You made the second point....

Just as you said too, we all know that people don't know how to read the rules, and in fact many times after being warned they complain about the warn but then they themselves admit they don't read the rules 💀

For this the system forces the user to have a perfect post, which not even a gray name can bypass

[wraith cypress]

🙂

[raven haven]

While automating certain things of post can save moderator time it's important to remember that human oversight is still necessary to ensure quality control. Moderators may still need to review posts for other criteria beyond minimum price and asset exclusivity, such as appropriateness and following to guidelines. The workload of moderators may shift, but it may not necessarily decrease significantly.

[wraith cypress]

emmh.....

[wraith cypress]

partially

[raven haven]

pissname* u did a error in grammer in last line

[wraith cypress]

limits the work of moderators and increases the security of the marketplace to a level that is impossible to break the rules

[wraith cypress]

no, I wrote well

[raven haven]

at level 5 people become pissnames

its a fact

[wraith cypress]

I wanted to point out that not even a lvl 0 can break a rule with this system

[raven haven]

ah

did u read my essay

[raven haven]

.

[wraith cypress]

Mindset : bot

User rank : it was a topic to discuss so not and where I wanted the opinion so I don't judge it

inconsistency : bot

[raven haven]

devs also might set artificially high minimum prices to give the appearance of value example they can write shit like: total funds *10k robux
and after the work is done say shit like "we will only pay you 700 robux our of 10k because we are hiring diffrent devs and 10k is the maxium funds we have

and since the post is already moderated the only thing this situation creates is more work for a marketplace and ticket support moderator

and scam search mods or whtever they are called

[wraith cypress]

Wait

[raven haven]

imo there are only 2 things which can be done to fully fix the marketplace

1. fully automate this system with bots like hiddendevs (Unlikely to happen)
2. increase the minimum price to 1000 robux or higher and viseversa (Unlikely to happen)

3. keep it as it is

each suggestion will come with major flaws

and since people are not able to follow the simple system now i doubt they will follow this complex shit

[wraith cypress]

With the bot there will be an option to select multiple Devs which will be assigned a basic payment, it depends on what the user needs, so if the basic payment of a Dev is 900 but he pays it less or after an argument between them where they said 2k, he gets paid a lot less, technically it is a scam and therefore normal procedures apply

The bot as I said, totally limited all the rules that the user can break

Includes, enforces, and force ti respect all marketplace rules

[raven haven]

Negotiating payment amounts individually with multiple developers can be time-consuming and potentially inefficient

Different users may negotiate different payment rates for similar work, leading to a lack of fairness and potentially undervaluing the contributions of certain developers

It could create a reputation risk for both buyers and sellers, as disputes or misunderstandings about payment terms may damage their credibility within the marketplace

ok my left shift is broken very cool

[wraith cypress]

This Is why we were considering the user ranks.

People would pay lower ranks less because the work provided takes a long time and the work may suck.

While for an s4 it would pay a little more but the work is certainly of quality

[raven haven]

bringing old point:

User rank: Introducing user rank as a factor in considering the minimum price raises concerns about fairness and bias. It could create a leadership within the marketplace, favoring higher-ranked users and potentially discouraging new or lower-ranked participants.

[wraith cypress]

Also as the system will be renewed, new rules will also be added, which under certain conditions give permission or not to go below the minimum payment if the price is negotiable, or they simply forbid the user to go below the minimum price because in cases of tickets,etc... Their request could be ignored or they could be blacklisted,etc....

^
These rules are just as an example, we haven't decided on any rules to add yet

[raven haven]

this bot system will take a very long time to implement and will be inconsistant with all moderation teams

dont forget a bot also has to be developed

[wraith cypress]

Don't think about the bot now 🙂

We need the clear idea first

And all the negative points to implement,as you are doing now

[raven haven]

wait first of all i dont think this server will implementing bots at the first place

[wraith cypress]

i know..... we have bot development staff.... we had, maybe we still have, i don't know 🙂

but in the end there is no problem that cannot be solved.
If we still have a team, we will reactivate it.
While if it's gone we will implement and revamp the bot dev team 🙂

[wraith cypress]

.

[raven haven]

i just think that the current system is fine there will be always people cring over payment if a person deserves more they can find them or argue payment

[wraith cypress]

we have to focus on one problem at a time.

As you can see, the marketplace was just a suggestion but we have already reached 126 messages where 75% of them are 3 km long.

This shows how one suggestion creates many new ideas and negative points.
This is why I posted the suggestion here, I wanted people to heavily judge the suggestion and say why it sucked.

Solved this marketplace problem and after having a clear idea that likes to people, is anti bypass, etc... we will go ahead, step by step to implement the rest and realize the marketplace idea, but also other ideas

[wraith cypress]

the new system is made especially for payment, which was going into full decline as many people simply underpaid a lot.

But besides the fact of payment, as we said, all this will fully implement the marketplace, where it will simply be almost impossible to break the rules, which will reduce warnings, blacklists, etc....and it will also lead to the creation of new rules which will simply make the user think twice before making a decision

[raven haven]

nothing is this world will stop pissnames from getting blacklisted

[wraith cypress]

users are blacklisted for several reasons:

-Spam for lvl (we are implementing the system so that the user receives a verbal warn, then a mute, then a blacklist and finally a warn, all this progressively if it continues, but all this is not part of the marketplace so I will ignore it )

-Blacklist for 3 marketplace warns or more (with the new system it will be almost impossible to break a marketplace rule as mentioned, so much less people will be blacklisted.)

-Permanent blacklist in exchange of a unban (it's not part of the marketplace so I'm not interested)

-Blacklist for posting via proxy/post for someone else (if several people post the same post, the marketplace mods notice it because they will check the marketplace posts anyway, while other times we do investigations with alt on suspicious users)

.
simply, if I remove the things that do not affect the marketplace, such as chat spam and the fact of the unban, there is the blacklist for 3 warns, which will be suppressed with the new system since it will be almost impossible to break a rule, and the blacklist to post via proxy/post for someone else which is not something we can fix

.
but yes, if someone breaks 3 marketplace rules they will still be blacklisted under the new system, it's just that the system just makes it almost impossible to forget to mention if your asset is exclusive, minimum payout, etc...

[real hamlet]

i just want a free hire channel

cuz people that work for free get warned in general smh

one sided ofcourse only the people rhat want to work for free get to use the channel

[pallid loom]

i gave that suggestion and got into a heated argument

People dont understand the reason behind it

[real hamlet]

if it's the famous Nexus noone will hate it!

[pallid loom]

Nexus also disagreed i think

[real hamlet]

im nexus

[pallid loom]

Oh

uhh

Who am i mistaking you with

[wraith cypress]

we will think about a solution

[wraith cypress]

i'm trying to work on it

[raven haven]

u suck

[wraith cypress]

🥲

[wraith cypress]

@calm bobcat opinion?

about the suggestion

[raven haven]

I counter this sugggestion

I be open

I still think this is shit

[raven haven]

this is not stable enough to implement

[wraith cypress]

I posted the suggestion to know the negative points according to people.

Many of the ones you've found are fixable with the bot

[raven haven]

im not sure about bots in this goofy ahh server

[wraith cypress]

.-.

[wraith cypress]

@pale lark what do you think about the idea?

[raven haven]

dont bring ma boi neon in this

[wraith cypress]

neon like this suggestion

[raven haven]

I dont

It's not stable

[cedar plume]

i ate the type

[wraith cypress]

I take this as a "I like the suggestion" 🙂

[cedar plume]

mixed bag, its a step in the right direction but not worked out enough and if currently implemented wouldn’t fix the issues that lay deep in the marketplace system

false sense of security esque situation

[wraith cypress]

How to kill a person with one sentence 🙂

[wraith cypress]

It is from the beginning of the suggestion that I repeat that everything can be solved if we we think about solutions, the main problems, etc....

So....Explain what is the problem with the marketplace in your opinion and what is the problem with the suggestion

[raven haven]

@cedar plume aggrees this is the most fucking shit suggest u can make

i hate this

[wraith cypress]

It is a good suggestion if it is implemented and if the problems to be solved are found before this happens

[wraith cypress]

"issue that lay deep" = Kids?

[cedar plume]

No, the concept behind the marketplace itself had been flawed since the beginning

[cedar plume]

Thats not what I said at all, its just not good enough to fix the issues.

Like putting a bandage on a deep knife wound, you will still bleed out and die.

[cedar plume]

I already explained that I don’t see any benefit in me trying to “manage” RSC again, since it negatively affected my overall life.
If you have ask me if something is good or bad, I will give you an answer but I won’t help you fixing it. It simply isn’t worth my time, no offense. I wish you lots of luck.

Maybe if i got paid to fix the issues, but at that point hire someone professionally that knows 100x more than me in these situations.

[raven haven]

its shit

in my words

i have already given all reads why its shit

and now im not gonna repeat

[wraith cypress]

slightly increase the length of life before it bleeds to death.
meanwhile he has time to look for a needle and thread to sew

[cedar plume]

not really

[raven haven]

why are u guys doing poetry

[wraith cypress]

ok, i was just asking for your opinion as a wise user and i wasn't looking for solutions but problems, but i understand, i accept what you said about the rest

[wraith cypress]

i'm not

[cedar plume]

🫂

[wraith cypress]

i'm not a doctor 🙂

I don't even know the ambulance number

[cedar plume]

imo just put the knife back in and keep the pressure on it until you’re at the hospital, never take out the knife

[wraith cypress]

💀

[cedar plume]

prob 112, where you from

its 999 in the uk, 911 in the usa and canada, 112 in europe and the likes

[wraith cypress]

112 is for the Europe in general

[cedar plume]

yes

[wraith cypress]

what if the killer took the knife back with him 😦

.

I'm looking for people who are ready to heavily judge the suggestion to find all possible and imaginary problems

👀

[cedar plume]

its good to see someone care about the marketplace and server like i did, don’t give up and don’t let other people discourage you from trying

[wraith cypress]

🫡

[raven haven]

YO WHAT

i have def spent countless dms with you about marketplace

i just lost at the end

this some is too fucked to be fixed in marketplace terms

[cedar plume]

i didn’t say you didn’t care bruh

💀

[cedar plume]

do what don says then if you really want to help rn

[raven haven]

i cant i have give enough reaons that this is not a stable idea for this 12 year olds infested community

we need to comeup with sum better

but in my opinion there can be only 2 fixes:
leave it as it is
or
make it fully controlled by bots

both have very unlikely chance of happening

[cedar plume]

why not bots

thats what i was working on

so much control

[raven haven]

didnt you scrap it

oh wait u quitted rsc

[cedar plume]

using forums, bumping, buttons and accepted posts

[cedar plume]

yeah

lots of reasons for that

but one of them was just ppl not appreciating how much work i did to improve things to only threaten me

[raven haven]

me when i realize feedback is now only premium only channel and not for early testers like me :(

[raven haven]

goofy ahh community

wait

i think i have a solution

delete marketplace

or make marketplace so much moderated and sensitive if a single word in format is gon the person will be gon

[wraith cypress]

I had implemented the bots in this suggestion which leads to do the calculation directly from the bot and at the same time the user cannot underpay, forget to put that an asset is exclusive or not, etc ....

Also for reducing the work of marketplace mods 🙂
Because in this way the bot posts the posts directly which will be without any broken rules and the marketplace mods must just check that there are not written things that have nothing to do with it

.
we simply know that the only way to enforce the rules is to force them, since users spontaneously don't read

[raven haven]

@cedar plume when u were here did the management had any opinion on bot controlled marketplace

[brazen brook]

@wraith cypress what happened to this

[wraith cypress]

Making a bot take time

Making a bot without knowledge in TypeScript take more time

Making a bot without knowledgr in TypeScript and how to make a bot take more more more time

Making a bot without knowledgr in TypeScript and how to make a bot and have like 5 works per day and be super busy years * blackhole mass

@brazen brook have you knowledge in TypeScript 🙂

[brazen brook]

what about we make it more of a suggestion than a requirement

[wraith cypress]

?

[raven haven]

don

i still this shit is a shit idea

fuck you

babe

[cedar plume]

@wraith cypress I.. still don't get the math behind your examples.
1k is the base price per hour?
low poly assets are x (3)
exclusivity is x (1, tf would resold items be??)
so you do base price times hours spent, divided by, asset times exclusivity
how is that logical?

(base * hours) / (asset * exclusivity)
(1000 * 2) / (3 * 1) = 666.666667

but for hiring it's
base divided by hours???? TF, you get paid less for longer working???
1000 / 2 = 500
1000 / 5 = 200???

[raven haven]

meex i already proved this is a shit suggestion not including the maths part idk why is he so invested in this thing

[cedar plume]

the basic concept is not bad, a point system deciding the minimum price

based on
hours spend
complexity
exclusivity

[raven haven]

lets just delete marketplace as a whole 🗿 🍷

[cedar plume]

frfr ong

@pale lark how much am i getting paid when i make this

[raven haven]

also how the hell do you measure exclusivity

[cedar plume]

is it being sold once or multiple times, not hard

[raven haven]

mmmmmm

[cedar plume]

so * 5 for exclusive assets
or / 5 for non exclusive assets

[wraith cypress]

it was just a bad example that I had given, just to give an idea of ​​what I meant.

I haven't decided on the constants yet and I haven't done test calculations yet to verify everything.
Furthermore, each channel, therefore selling assets/hiring/for hire, will each have a different system so I have to think carefully about what to multiply and what to divide

To be honest I haven't even started in bot since i'm very busy and I'm supposed to do it in TypeScript but it's a language I've never used 🙂

[wraith cypress]

yes, this is the concept in the end, it's right that I still haven't decided the constants to divide/multiply since the post was a suggestion for the moment

[wraith cypress]

i should try to start it

[cedar plume]

not different systems different constants

[wraith cypress]

Big Cta Boss Meex 🔥

[pale lark]

ok so there were so many ideas and changes thrown around since your first proposal, i'd like to see a summary of what your idea is now in simple terms. 👍

[wraith cypress]

🥱

i have a problem 🙂

I don't know how to do small messages 🙂

[pale lark]

the biggest thing to help the marketplace will always be having a bot to automate and simplify everything

we're justt waiting on trix to do that

[wraith cypress]

After all the ideas added in this suggestion we are added to the idea of:

We will add a bot, which in the user's dm, based on what the user wants to do, will ask different questions, such as what kind of dev he wants to hire, or what type of asset he is selling, if the asset is exclusive, if the work for here is engaging is simple or not,etc....

The bot will ask every question it needs to not have a post that breaks the rules.
Like if the user wants to sell, the bot will ask if he wants to sell an exclusive asset or not, and based on the user's response the bot will add the feature to the post.

The payment system will be different in each channel and will work on the basis of constants that will divide or multiply to finally donate a minimum price, but the bot will also ask for the maximum budget and the price that the user thinks is fair, which lastly, if it is lower than the minimum price, the bot will not allow the publication of the post.

The bot will automatically publish the user's message once it's finished, because it won't break 95% of any rule since the bot will force everything to be respected

.
heavily criticizing the idea by showing the weaknesses will only make it stronger and with fewer weaknesses 🔥

[pale lark]

ah ok i see

as long as the process is as simple as possible, we can test it out and see how people like it

[raven haven]

i can rant a lot but i will do that in a few hours im busy rn

[rain stone]

@wraith cypress uhhhh

dms

[rain stone]

I actually like this idea alot.

[raven haven]

welcme

you are late

but fuck you

[rain stone]

No ;)

[real hamlet]

fuck you

[rain stone]

No :)

[pale garnet]

Fuck you