GSH Rework - H2 Balance & Mechanics

[crystal gulch]

But again, would that Exodus actually hurt the game for long? I can't say losing the salty "Balance is everything" crew would be a huge bummer.

[austere sedge]

my bad

[earnest mulch]

There we go

[tardy trail]

Ik, but it's what it is

[austere sedge]

disappointing

[austere sedge]

by sequencer passive?

[tardy trail]

Nah, there's no casted twice in there

[earnest mulch]

2H celestial staff

[austere sedge]

oo

[tardy trail]

Limit break

[dusky ginkgo]

I’ll refrain from answering that in detail because this is GSH thread but yes is the short answer.

Speaking of PvP, Hydrus Pact is pretty 🔥

[calm wyvern]

Get it quick! Events about to end

[calm wyvern]

What limit breaks do you have on?

[earnest mulch]

It's not terrible, if I get the 40% helmet I'll put a cap remover on the staff

[calm wyvern]

Yeah 100%

[earnest mulch]

My aethric one has the pact helm at least.

[tardy trail]

99% Nekro and 35% Amity

[earnest mulch]

Ill go grind the kingdom raids

[tardy trail]

Still, I plan to swap the amity for 50% positive status effects when I get one, since I somehow don't have any rn

[void scaffold]

Nekro?

[tardy trail]

Staff

[earnest mulch]

Oh right! Amities have cap removal now. I have 15% one

[dusky ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-the-way-this-is-the-way-mandalorian-mandalorian-i-have-spoken-baby-yoda-gif-24159898

[tardy trail]

Still need to swap the adorns

[void scaffold]

I see, Ang bonus

Didn't even consider those in the whole discussion yet lol

[tardy trail]

AncientL uses the same

For his BP

[void scaffold]

Cause it makes sense

[tardy trail]

Yeah, it's the best one you can have

No need to lose cele adorns or anything

Plus all the other ones are meh for BP and HyPa

[earnest mulch]

Celestial can't get anguish i suppose

[crystal gulch]

Well, 1H celestial, aries staff with limit break. Problem solved.

[tardy trail]

Nekro better than Aries, but yeah

[crystal gulch]

Can't go wrong with that.
Ward? WHAT IS WARD?

Hydrus will destroy the summon price economy ☠️

[earnest mulch]

I saw purrly's staff has 20% pact on it, even a low rare one would be fine?

[crystal gulch]

Im not a summoner, but orna is about stacking BS with more BS

[tardy trail]

For HyPa it's worse, since it has lower mag, and summon stats are useless there

For BP it's arguably better, at least at lower anguish

Since it has a bit more summon stats, although it still has less mag

[earnest mulch]

I was looking at it counting as a staff since the Aries(goat staff) is a instrument

[tardy trail]

Well, also more ward

[tardy trail]

Yeah

[earnest mulch]

Might try that

[tardy trail]

At higher anguish there's a point where those 19% summon stats don't matter anymore, compared to the higher mag of the nekro, and the fact that you get a ton of summon stats from both, because of the ang scaling

Plus that mana is juicy, ngl

[earnest mulch]

Sequencer needs two staves for double casting doesn't it?

[tardy trail]

Yeah

[earnest mulch]

Whatever has more slots then, I have an ornate nekro so that wins

[calm wyvern]

Ohh 99% nice. Best I have rolled in about 30 crucibals now is 75

And I didn't think about amity

[void scaffold]

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1449756538565824605
is out

[tardy trail]

Thanks for the summary

[snow swift]

I’m glad GSH seems to be well received and fun to play for GS players, but did the game really need another crazy turn 1 PvP move? 😅

[sinful bridge]

Does the second chance sacrifice all your summons? Or just 1

[dusky ginkgo]

All of em

[earnest mulch]

Sometimes 1 turn, bigger players with better gear endure it pretty well

Then you get 1 shot, lol

It chews up turtles pretty good tho I will say

[fathom kettle]

Its not that crazy in pvp tbf

I mean i like it there but its not even close to meta

[snow swift]

AL50 vs AL173 DUrsa. Even without the sequencer double cast it seems pretty strong 😅

[spark swift]

On attack, yes..
If they survive, GSH die..

GSH don't have battalions or pet..
Second chance trigger wipe out summons..
Results, die again..

[snow swift]

That’s a big if considering the damage we’re talking about 😅 It’s the bloodray problem all over, you either get a SC or you die, and there’s not much you can do against that. Frustrating for both the attacker and defender, and no way to plan around it

[spark swift]

Different, bloodray can't be blocked or miss..
Similar case with it, SS3..

[snow swift]

You aren’t hitting for 750k with SS3 at AL50, even before the beta nerfs. Don’t get me wrong, it also needs changes, but I don’t really like the direction we seem to be going in of just giving everyone a major turn 1 nuke, it’s not healthy for the game

[spark swift]

Even on defense, summoner a.i. is suck to even consider using that spells..

[fathom kettle]

Im not gonna argue with it, however i seen beo ss3 builds hitting for 300k, while having parapet, pet block and all those things

[snow swift]

Don’t get me started on BeoH 😅 I’m really sad they partially rolled back the nerf on SS3. BeoH is so much better than Gilga at using the warrior skill

[earnest mulch]

How's the AI feel to fight against?

[fathom kettle]

I heard its usually gsh summoning

Rarely using hypa

[earnest mulch]

Its a jerk(at least mine is)

At least I know itll be a pain in the butt

[livid matrix]

Personally I like the fact that Settlements are near impossible to defend with every class getting a 1 turn nuke. Now, I wish it was more because Settlements were harder to defend than they are currently and not enormous amounts of damage.

That's mainly because of the effects it has outside of Conq guild.

[earnest mulch]

Ow(I lost)

At least it's a better defender than GSA

[tardy trail]

Ngl, you got really lucky with your AI there

[earnest mulch]

Managed to win once, but with tidal instead of hypa

[tardy trail]

On all my tries it always summoned

[earnest mulch]

I don't think ive seen it summon manually yet, cockatrice was definitely a good choice to tech in. I hate it

[tardy trail]

Or spammed attack

[earnest mulch]

I went 12 turns without an autosummon. Thats a new record

[tardy trail]

I would say it can be more than it is

Like, it if it uses HyPa it’s definitely better than GSA, but the AI is very inconsistent

And GSA has a better access to parapet, which is a big plus

[earnest mulch]

My GSA isn't too bad, 1-2 turn dragons pretty often. I just feel like this is less predictable

What is a better parapet, the 95% one or the 100% one?

Cuz the one I got is to block 100% damage

[tardy trail]

Amities have 20%, Ymir and Yel have 25%

But they are warrior locked

[earnest mulch]

Yeah but I mean, does the block 95% damage one mean 95% and above?

[tardy trail]

Yeah, seems like it's better

[earnest mulch]

Alright, cuz things are often worded oddly in orna

[tardy trail]

Ymir and yel are still better, though

They are 100%, but they also are 25% instead of 20%

So higher proc rates

[earnest mulch]

It adds a proc chance tho?

Cuz i can't see it adding to be 45%, but a 20% and a 25% chance separately.

[tardy trail]

It's not sure if they stack

But separately the cuirasses win

[earnest mulch]

It's not a terrible gamble given how many classes can just mollywhop you

[tardy trail]

Yeah

I'll also have to test how well it fares against oneshots

[earnest mulch]

Since summon protection only exists on the absolute worst gear ever

[tardy trail]

Since we do have the SC but it kills the summons

[tardy trail]

Yeah, and it's also omega nerfed in pvp

[earnest mulch]

It doesn't even need to be anymore? Since someone can just collateral you from space, or a common sweep skill.

Im assuming it was so traumatic when it first came out that everyone has ptsd over it

[austere sedge]

what's the point of second chance when you will die in next turn

you have to be very lucky and not get hit after second chance

summon protection doesn't synergize with hypa too

ppl here are against the idea of dodge rate on gsh (even tho there are no cons)

is there any any passive that synergize and ppl here aren't against it

[sinful bridge]

Yesterday you suggested a fixed 75% dodge rate... your suggestions haven't seemed to be reasonable tbh

[austere sedge]

that was a joke

max dodge rate on thief is probably 60%

we are never getting anything close to that

I'm not asking for this much too

[sinful bridge]

Idk I've also seen stuff like "auto t.all+++" suggested as if it was reasonable 😂

[final wagon]

what are the base def/res of gsh compared to other classes? do we have the updated snapshot with all classes stats?

we have that already, summon protect on augments and gear exists

[final wagon]

if you spam like me yes, if you summon dead +40% chance of new summon not necessarily

remember that even without batallion the raid can target a summon and that's a hit you are missing to being with protect aside

now 2nd chance is worthless in dungeons, yes

[final wagon]

no i mean vs other classes

so the problem here we have uberlow def, and normal res

so maybe having def/res like RS corvus (why not?) would be a reasonable request

the old idea is "gs had redicolously lower stats because summons do the things instead"

gsh is "summons are tools i kill to do stuff" so it should have normie stats. Mag got normalized but we should get normal stats in def/res as well

[void scaffold]

That's all i have.
Yes it has the lowest def compared to other classes.
Here Ara has +25

[snow swift]

I’m fine with settlements being nukeable, I’m more worried about it making kingdom wars uninteresting

[tardy trail]

It's true that against high AL players it's an incredible tool to have, since the damage is definitely an overkill

But I personally wouldn't use it in wars, unless it's an extreme situation where you definitely need the firepower

Testing it in arena and in a few other places, it works extremely well, but it can definitely be a gamble, as it leaves you completely sold when you don't kill T1

[snow swift]

Still, if the damage is definitely an overkill, then maybe it needs a slight adjustment for PvP?

[tardy trail]

No summons for SC, no second Hydrus pact and no anything the moment you miss, parapet procs, or they get SC or pet protect

[tardy trail]

Yeah, not saying it shouldn't get one, as long as it stays the same in PVE

And it remains a bit better than BP2, M1 and damage wise, given it's a lot riskier to use

#1449114805368786956 message

Tbh I was already ok with it when it dealt the same damage as BP2

[fierce crag]

But it is also true that it is extremely rare that you fight against summoners which are good in defense. I usually don't even change to my offense profile if I notice that my fight is against a summoner (a few days ago I met the first summoner which could tank 170k+). Good for attack, bad for defense - so I would say: still a strong tradeoff.

[brave shard]

Is that new though? Lets be honest pvp with ALs was dead years ago. I think we should let this go as is. Its not like blood ray completely unavoidable delete spell. Gotta let some things go, esp since GSH been dead for so long. If it clearly needs balance in future lets address for sure

[snow swift]

That’s not really the case in my experience. The new matchmaking for wars also matches you with people on the same AL bracket, so you don’t have AL100s curb stomping people with 0 AL anymore.

There’s not really another case besides bloodray where you can hit for 700k+ turn one at a deficit of more than 100ALs. Even spiked shield, for all its flaws, can’t do that. This kind of damage completely negates any ability to build around it

[brave shard]

Anyone can deal enough damage at equal AL to one shot others with so many options these days

[snow swift]

That’s kinda the difference. This isn’t in an equal AL scenario. It negates motivation to grind ALs when you know they won’t help you defend either way. And, whether we like it or not, the community has been very clear on their stance on ALs and that endless grind ultimately promotes player retention

[brave shard]

Lets definitely not get into an AL debate

But wars been dead long ago even at equal AL matchmaking

So lets just let this one go. Its a complete glass build that gives up its second chance when cast

Thats my take.

[dusky ginkgo]

Isn’t that how mage and thief players have been playing PvP this whole time? No amount of defense negates their opponents’ damage while the opponent stands behind gigantic shields

Why do mage abilities that can compete with ward builds need instant nerfs?

That isn’t to say they don’t need nerfs but I don’t understand how that doesn’t just reset to ward build wins meta (which I don’t actually see changing since mages can’t defend with these setups)

My take is the same here as those asking for buffs- I’d let Hydrus pact cook for a bit

Bloodray? No, something to the accuracy and/or block or something needs to occur for PvP

[snow swift]

They most definitely have not. We were having constant wars being decided on 1 win when we were fighting ABS, Sess etc (before the latest matchmaking change). The high level kingdom scene was thriving like never before

[brave shard]

We are a part of that scene and we have the opposite take so agree to disagree glad youre enjoying high ALs

Back to GS convo

[snow swift]

They don’t compete with ward builds, they more than double their damage at very little investment. This is just going in the direction of everyone wins attack and everyone loses defense, which is as boring as it can get

[brave shard]

We should take the pvp balance chat to a different discussion thread

[earnest mulch]

I have a glass build for war but need to remember to swap back into defensive after.
So far defensive has held up in a few wars.

I think most players with extra gear have a few different builds.

*it's been alright in raids, dealt with lyncus and sphinx pretty good, surprisingly.
Could do with more spell slots but I'm making the best of it.

[ruby raven]

Not really it would be a hindrance too XD

I don't need more then 1 AD for my penguin raid set up

Also the weaker summons would hurt

[earnest mulch]

My record for unsummoned autosummons with an empty field is now 15 turns. Thank goodness this thing can survive decently

I like that it's been pretty flexible with different gear and summons, played a little with Beithir on less pact % and it still managed alright.

Didn't look to see if Beithir counted to the autosummon pool or not, but likely doesn't.. unless.

*the answer is no, it does not pull from skill summons

Tho blood pact 2 was pretty solid at about 500k-600k minimal buffs, and less juggling. I can see a value to it

[earnest mulch]

A simple sweeping move checks it for skeletons and ghosts. Found that ancient jinn easily checks it if it's just weaker monsters.

[austere sedge]

1). it's not auto t. all+++ but obtained from summon sacrifice

2). It was already in beta so all I'm (we are ) asking for is for it to return

3).The proc rate of tall+++ could be reduced for balancing purpose.

(this should be reasonable)

[sinful bridge]

I don't really think it's reasonable from an outsider perspective, but good luck figuring it out

[austere sedge]

when it was in beta everyone liked it and nobody said it's unreasonable

gsh in live has 1/3 damage potential, less ward turn (from hypa), t. all +++ removed etc

[earnest mulch]

If it's rarely happening based off chance then it'd be whatever.

[void scaffold]

Well we have ppl cracking cap with pretty tanky builds already so i don't know if t.all+++ in necessary.

[sinful light]

T. All3 should stay out of "free buffs" imo. Make gear like dynasty stuff and quick cast celestials stay relevant

[austere sedge]

low proc t. all+++ should be fine

[earnest mulch]

Oh regarding a few hours ago about gear for SH and GSH, what about Baldr gear for t10 and Incarnate(mage) for t9 support? Something like
• Baldr - 4% auto summon% per
• Incarnate - 3% auto summon% per
• Arisen King's Scepter - 10% summon stats 15% summon pacts

[void scaffold]

Well atleast Baldr is smth universally preferred by GS/GSA too and we noticed that those don't necessarily wan't auto summons.

[oak moss]

My two cents: currently gsh is absolutely insane for raids, asking for buffs in the raid department is kinda wack

I reached higher DPS than my deity apex build with good rng at times, and I don't feel that squishy either, although it is a bit rng but it's not that bad

Dungeons however for some reason my hypa deals soo little damage when it's split on 3 enemies and I don't know if that's intended

Also reading this whole chat back, plague you need to read the room bruh the class is not that bad rn

Oh and also, the one ward turn per hypa feels really irrelevant

[sinful bridge]

From what I saw the ward turn from hypa gives no ward absorb either, that should probably be changed to 25%

[oak moss]

could be, what I do is almost always pop woo turn one but yeah I still can't keep ward up without using it mid-raid

[austere sedge]

i never said that class is weak in lower anguish and in not even asking for damage buffs

if you check all suggestions most of them are for utility

that can make gsh a lot smoother to use

[oak moss]

your definition of utility is getting higher damage my guy

With the t.all 3 suggestion and the bringing back multihit for higher dmg cap

[austere sedge]

can you tell me how my suggestion will affect damage?

I'm willing to change them

[austere sedge]

i never asked to bring multi hit back

and t. all+++ from summon sacrificed will just replace god of aaru

so that's not damage buff too

i also think proc rate should be low to balance it

[thin gulch]

saves 2-3 turns of buffing

[austere sedge]

2 turn only(if sequencer passive didn't work)

the only reason I'm asking for it is to make builds more flexible

since gsh is dependent on god of aaru

[oak moss]

ok so the game is turn based, if we make it so you skip the turns you buff you increase your effective damage

Also removing the need to gear to fill specific niches

Like for example using limit break

Or aaru helmet

[austere sedge]

I'm not asking for t. all+++ to be consistent

[oak moss]

So those are all in my eyes direct buffs, not qol

[oak moss]

Ok if it wasn't consistent, it wouldn't even replace casting it yourself then?

[austere sedge]

current cap is too easy to reach (I'm low al player with standard quality gears) and i can reach it

it shouldn't happen

[thin gulch]

gsh is in a great spot, i just wish we were still able to proc new summons after you sacrifice 3 from a full board

[oak moss]

You can wdym

[austere sedge]

but it could be more helpful

[oak moss]

more helpful when you already reach dmg cap?

Why

[thin gulch]

lots of classe scan reach damage cap at 0 al

[austere sedge]

with good gear

[thin gulch]

i'm prtty sure i could do it as realmshifter when i was a fresh t10 🤔

not sure anymore though 😄

[oak moss]

Just went to test it out, you can, it's just sometimes the summons that fill the board back up are invisible

[thin gulch]

oh.... yeah that might be it!

[oak moss]

I think we talked about it but haven't checked if someone made a bug report

[austere sedge]

in beta per summon sacrifice cap was 10 million but now no matter how many summon i sacrifice the cap is 10 million

[thin gulch]

i see the animation of summoning, but ometimes dont see anything appear 😄

[oak moss]

Yeah because sometimes after I hypa, when I summon nothing shows up(because there are invisible summons)

Ye

[austere sedge]

so the damage output is decreased to 1/3

[oak moss]

In beta it was way too strong

[austere sedge]

that's why i want damage cap to increase a bit

[oak moss]

Also in beta, we couldn't summon multiple summons at a time with Charon ritual

[austere sedge]

i agree but that nerf affected horde too

it was overpowered in raid

but not in horde content

[oak moss]

Yeah well they should tweak te horde numbers maybe, but my guy you are not hitting dmg cap in dungeons

So I've been hearing you from the raiding pov, sounding like you want to buff it when dmg already is the strong part of gsh raiding

[austere sedge]

if you used basic buff and got lucky with temp buffs it's very easy

[austere sedge]

no i don't

[thin gulch]

blood pact amities arent realy great 🙁 i hope they get looked at at some point...

[austere sedge]

the pact bonus from amity is very low

[oak moss]

I've never hit 10 mil in a dungeon ever idk man maybe you guys have

[thin gulch]

why use a pact set in dungeons?

[austere sedge]

you can't because of the nerf

now pact cap is 10 million

no matter how many summon you sac

[oak moss]

I didn't in beta either

[austere sedge]

so your damage gets divided in horde

[oak moss]

Why would you want to hit more than 10mil in horde dungeons bro

[thin gulch]

Bl2 ftw

[austere sedge]

in beta it was 10 million per summon

[oak moss]

In dungeons?

[austere sedge]

yup

[oak moss]

Thats not necessary levels of damage lol

[thin gulch]

Just use a magic set and aoe damage 🙂 use hypa II as a buff 🙂

[austere sedge]

if you sacrificed 3 summon you could deal 10 million to every enemy(3)

[austere sedge]

but it's a nerf nonetheless

so that's why i think damage cap should be 15 million to 20 million

[oak moss]

But when would you ever need to deal 30mil to horde enemies

10mil kills literally everything man

[thin gulch]

You could anguidh your nekro staff to add limit break

[austere sedge]

ik but it's a nerf

[oak moss]

But it's irrelevant, no?

[austere sedge]

too poor to afford it 😔

[thin gulch]

What other stat would you want on it anyways?

[oak moss]

when bosses have like 500k hp max who cares if you're hitting 10 or 30mil

[austere sedge]

aside from that which other suggestion even affects damage

[thin gulch]

tbh, it matters at high anguish when their defences get really high, but still 10m is overkill xD

[ruby raven]

Dmg isn't that much an issue

Survival is for GSH

I find survival subpar with it

And second chance being nearly useless lol

[austere sedge]

it will matter as anguish increases

[austere sedge]

yeah

[thin gulch]

yeah second chance is prtty weird if you sacrifice your summons xD

[austere sedge]

I'm fine with any passive that synergize with gsh and hypa

[austere sedge]

you will most likely die next turn too

[oak moss]

Dude you could never convince me 10mil is not enough damage in dungeons but alright I concede

[austere sedge]

I'm not high anguish too but as i have noticed it will be necessary in higher anguish

[oak moss]

Yeah it's a bit weird but saved my ass a couple of times. Definitely not the most synergistic but I would also rather have it than not

[thin gulch]

dwplague, in dungeons hitting 500k aoe's is more than enough 😉

[austere sedge]

most of my suggestion are for second chance replacement

[ruby raven]

Even more so

When you die, your left wide open and you die again pretty quickly, no summon protection chance your garenteed to get targeted more

[oak moss]

Definitely way better now that if you get lucky you can basically get a full board of meatshiwlds after you sc

[austere sedge]

maybe when i get necessary gear 😔

[oak moss]

Maybe when you second chance, CR is guaranteed to proc afterwards?

That would feel thematic

[austere sedge]

i suggested it in previous thread but i got ignored

[thin gulch]

i wish we got 1 turn of ward per summon that dies

[oak moss]

Boy who cried wolf type situation probably

[austere sedge]

i also suggested cr rate dependent on no. of summons

[thin gulch]

getting one turn for saccing 3 is not really great

[ruby raven]

Maybe? But idk

I'd much rather have summon protection chance then second chance being it would generally be better

[oak moss]

Huge vouch

[austere sedge]

it was meant to happen

[oak moss]

Yeah that's what the tooltip says, maybe bugged

[thin gulch]

if gh needs changes, it's def survivability 🙂

[austere sedge]

but got removed in live

[thin gulch]

oh

[austere sedge]

live gsh is a weaker version of beta gsh

[oak moss]

Feels way nicer though

With the fixed hypa procs

And the multiple summons

I think it's in a really good spot, beta gsh definitely wasn't balanced

[austere sedge]

previous was way better

[oak moss]

Only thing is the whole rework imo buffs raiding more than it does dungeoning

[austere sedge]

i like previous one

new one is better than pre rework but it's not preferred for dgn and other content for me

[thin gulch]

yes

i dont like doing dungeons as gsh, i miss a pet to summon me 🙂

[austere sedge]

i don't think any deity, beo and here players will choose gsh over their class in almost any situation

[tardy trail]

It’s not xd

[austere sedge]

i could be wrong

[thin gulch]

i swapped from diety 🙂

[austere sedge]

it is

[oak moss]

Same

[austere sedge]

it obviously is

reason beta gsh was overpowered(in raids)

[thin gulch]

i do miss my apex build though 😄

[oak moss]

Im reaching higher DPS with hypa man, it's kind of nuts in raids

[tardy trail]

Ah, the beta kinda, thought you meant previous live

[thin gulch]

i'm not 🤔

[austere sedge]

that's worst class lol

[thin gulch]

wish i could do this as gsh 😄

[ruby raven]

Yeah dungeons as GSH feels bad to me imo

Mainly survival, raids is okay but tbh I don't find the mechanics fun personally

[oak moss]

I'm doing anguish 5 and shackled, apex build used to get around 600k DPS average, now I kill raids with around 800k dps

While being more defensive also, cause summons tank hits

But I wasn't fully minmaxed with godforged bidents

[thin gulch]

the defensive prt is true 🙂

[austere sedge]

hypa not being full aoe still hurts me (idc if most class don't have full aoe spell)

[thin gulch]

mrplague, you're just lacking an aoe weapon

[austere sedge]

I'm willing to sac 5 summon for full aoe

[thin gulch]

every class uses weapons to do full aoe

[oak moss]

Yeah most classes just spam BL2, gsh can also do it not half bad

[austere sedge]

aaa i need aoe weapon 🫣

[oak moss]

ok man...

[thin gulch]

gsh has better base mag than Dara 🙂

would it be too OP if the dmg wasnt split if attacking more than 1 enemy?

fighting summoner raids is kinda painful

[austere sedge]

even if gsh doesn't get a single buff rn i wish it gets buff when i falls behind and doesn't get ignored like summoner class

[austere sedge]

use bp

[thin gulch]

i think GSA needs more love than gsh right now :p

[tardy trail]

Yeah, problem is that the split isn’t working properly rn

[austere sedge]

damage with all buffs is pretty decent

[oak moss]

I think it would be fine if it splits equally but from experience it doesn't feel like that's the case

[thin gulch]

oh, how so? 😮

[tardy trail]

#1449756538565824605 message

#1449114805368786956 message

[thin gulch]

oh lots of our discussion point shave already been raised 🙂

[tardy trail]

Yeah, almost everything is already in the summary

[thin gulch]

i'm not good at navigating discord 🙂 thanks for sharing the threads 😉 that will be a fun read

[fathom kettle]

I'd agree but gsa is alr very good

[void scaffold]

Yea always check the pins, i keep those frequently updated😉
#1449114805368786956 message

All in all we're in good shape imo.
Offensive for the class itself, besides fixes (i'd call the HyPa split calc a fix) there ain't much more to add.
Defensive, HyPa adding more ward turns (per summon), tweaking 2nd chance and adding a little more def makes sense to me.
I'd wish for some gear too to be able to shape GSH to everyones individual liking.

[fathom kettle]

Wait so the dmg isn't suppose to be split?

[void scaffold]

It is on multiple targets but the calc seems off.

[fathom kettle]

Yea, i tought so, dmg was a bit whack even buffed

[void scaffold]

On one target with 3 summons sacced you reach 500k and on 3 targets 50k each so 150k in sum?

#1449114805368786956 message

[fathom kettle]

Also, idk about yall but i feel tmag and all doesn't proc alot

It takes me couple hypas to even get any tmag or tall, i think it should have a bit more increased chance of getting than defensive, will make it better for dgs

[thin gulch]

i never got it to work properly then 😄

[oak moss]

yeah for dungeons I can't really find windows to use hypa that much, maybe it will be better when they fix the damage split?

[fathom kettle]

I can perform mel 16 shackled with gsa and torment 17 without problems

[fathom kettle]

Yea, even with that i still think it's not worth going from gsa to gsh

Gsh is bare minimum for horde content

That's my and few ppl opinion however i won't argue about it anymore

[thin gulch]

gona look into gsa hordes 🙂

[spark swift]

I guess, damage maybe need to be adjusted a little and reduce the power outside of GS line just to avoid things like, SS3..

[fathom kettle]

Ah hypa isn't usable by other classes(atleast beta wasn't)

You need to summon your own summons to get tbuffs, nor is dmg super high as bp duo

[void scaffold]

For me left behind bosses by 2nd chance or whatever are the usecase of HyPa, except i really mean it and use it as my main spell, which works but not as fluent as BL2 + HyPa.

However i have high hopes for the chain chance fix and potential additional CR increase gear or amities.

[void scaffold]

I'd adjust it once (if) ppl figure out a way to use it inbetween classes

[spark swift]

Outside event follower, Eos..

Other than that is event related..

[fathom kettle]

Would't gear with auto summon make hera be able to use hypa too?

With eos/autosummon gear

[void scaffold]

Maybe, however if it's comparable to existing strats efficiency wise and doesn't blow up the charts why not.

They won't get any buffs from it

[fathom kettle]

Yea, i don't think hypa can be abused by other classes like bp duo

[thin gulch]

I actually tried the duo tactic but with hypa as damage spell, the damage was really bad (hara damaging)

[fathom kettle]

Yup ik, tested it with every class like beoH and hera

[void scaffold]

It's propably the interaction between the class and the spell making it work, which is good imo.
We wanted GSH to have his own shtick👍

[dusky ginkgo]

I tested it solo on Deity and could still hit the damage cap but it takes so much work to either charge apex, deal with summon dead failing or wait for a pet

So doable but not reliable

[final wagon]

this is not shackled (al 199)

this is BP build almost half time

this is gsh with dc

gsh with dc with a second chance proc

not being able to understand when i can skip a summon dead because i don't know how many summons i have is a problem i guess

[spark swift]

You mean spawn more than 1 summon from autosummon?

[final wagon]

this when buffs align better

so yes i think GoA + pos is better (build here doesn't have orichalcum in nekro so should get a bit better), i think lugus are good even if they overlap with tmag+++ from the sacrifice (tmag+++ is always nice to get), maybe we can do without snotra but not fast raiding i think? and ofc i still have to try dulla build

[spark swift]

I guess against raids that doesn't have AoE spells/skills and only using HyPa..
Summon dead and Summon VSS is the best ammunitions..
When charon ritual trigger, Summon Dead will give 3 - 4 skelly and VSS 2 - 3..

[final wagon]

gsh is bad also vs summoning raids because damage is split

[earnest mulch]

I always low ball suggestions to see where we can go from. Baldr gear was my first choice for something that could fill in for added support stats but it's not quite "raid rewards" support stats. It could have a mix of things, such as buff duration%(which is always welcome), summon pacts power(head), summon protection%, if you're looking to avoid simply spamming summon% on everything.

[final wagon]

you only cast summon dead no reason to summon anything else imo, you want more summons to go summon/hypa/summon/hypa every turn after minimal setup

it also lags a lot (but maybe that's hoa)

[void scaffold]

Maybe it's better once the multiple target dmg calc got adjusted.

[earnest mulch]

I lead with ancient dragon, cockatrice, and skeletons, but people can do as they like.
Phaetheon is a decent option in raid stuff since it pops 2 out.

[final wagon]

i tested after adjustment

vs riftlock raid it takes ages as you always split damage basically

[void scaffold]

I mean this
#1449114805368786956 message

550k at 3 summons vs 1 target, 160k in sum vs 3 targets

[earnest mulch]

I tend to use hypa for the buff then blood pact for single damage, that's worked nicely for how i'm playing. Im also not just only running weasel monsters.

[final wagon]

man we are talking most efficient raiding

[earnest mulch]

The yelmogus staff gives me my priority sweep attack

Oh well in that case

[final wagon]

yes we are talking how fast to deal 60 or 80 or 100m

vs bp3 at high agony / high al

at low agony/al everything can work but still faster woul dbe better

with that i mean saving 5 seconds is huge and relevant, think doing thousands of raids

[earnest mulch]

Im not a glutton for suffering, my raid agony sits around 5. 😭

[final wagon]

ok at that stage anything works

but again even there doing something in 40 seconds is worse than 25 and better than 1min

even semi-defensive build you die anyway (yes adorns aren't perfect)

losing ahsen ruby hurts so 2h might not be viable

[void scaffold]

There's no other way to leech HP?
Ye, afraid that'd hold it back.

[final wagon]

i can't think of anything

but maybe with anguished helm things are a bit better (also i didn't fortitude int he video)

dulla on paper seems make for us , gsh "def/res" build

basically the idea being that unless we stack def res a bit all those buffs are useless, while if we do they become relevant

[void scaffold]

How important are FSS?

[final wagon]

it's damage, i can remove them as well i suppose

but with no hp regen it's going to be bad anyway i guess

i don't have an anguished high def/res piece with highrolled +2h damage passive though

I suppose I could crucible this

lol

one crucible

[void scaffold]

Still looking for HP reg...
Dangy's Tan Chinos / Codex / Orna RPG Series | New Old RPGs https://share.google/OcLtxBz2bHlpZYVPN
?

Stylish for sure🤣

[final wagon]

any augment? mayne we can give up 20% pact buff

[void scaffold]

Only Themis for HP/MP reg from ward dmg.
Amity only has crit reg iirc?

[rapid panther]

since autosummon is tied to GSH only (not like avidity or collateral which are class passives) why don't we tie it with summon turn reduction? if you think about it they have the same relevance, GSH wants as much autosummon as GSA wants to summon fast, also makes riftlock still the BiS gs item for GSH as well

[fathom kettle]

Have you tried doing dgs with gsh?

[final wagon]

no as i have beoh for that and it's almost impossible gsh is better than that, also it can't carry and i do all with 3 t11 alts

it's a waste to do solo in general, not being able to carry for me = not being able to do dungeons at all

[brave shard]

This class is crazy having a blast playing it

Now just need Odie to let me RoR raid exp so i can fully enjoy 😄

[crystal gulch]

For the fact it was never intended to be good in raids thats quite amazing

[crystal gulch]

Leave raid at 95% damage, release

[dusky ginkgo]

Why stop at RoR- give me a Ring of Remembrance that locks my main at t9 without access to t10 stuff for a while 😎

[oak moss]

Honestly feels like the biggest buff to gsh is raids

But that's because hypa damage splitting is bugged so it doesn't feel that nice in dungeons

[crystal gulch]

That is an absolute shame, because it didn't need it.

I assume once HyPa is fixed, that will changr

[oak moss]

I mean when hypa gets fixed raids will still be better than they were pre-rework

That's because everything will be better

But dungeons will probably feel just as nice as raids do

Also I don't think it didn't need it, it absolutely did

Regular GS was a better raider

Gsh didn't perform in anything

[spark swift]

For me who do shackled mel at 22, 80% just using hypa..
It rely too much on celestial weapon..

[oak moss]

yeah a non celestial pact weapon/adorns would be nice

[void scaffold]

On the other hand that's what's enabling those tanky builds, not being as reliant on mag, crit, ele and whatnot.

[kind summit]

i really like gsh so far, i even hoc-ed to it... i only wish for the return of more ward turns when using hydrus pact

[spark swift]

And I'll just throw my skelly on raids whenever they spawn..
3 skelly for me is more precious than 1 horse from autosummon in tanky build..

[void scaffold]

Me too, but i can see the benefits of additional t.def/res++ and possible Lugus proccs via Pegasus, plus the occasional revive

[earnest mulch]

Did GSH autosummon get nerfed cuz holy smokes i am seeing things summon way less

[tawdry basin]

They are invisible half of the time but they are here !

[earnest mulch]

"40% of the time it works every time"
But yeah just playing around and 24 turns without a summon is what i'm up to

Its like come on lil buddies, we have an agreement now.

[tawdry basin]

Well if your 5 slots are used by invisible ones there are no rooms for another one

[earnest mulch]

Can those invisible ones count towards hypa then?

[livid matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/im-out-we-out-peace-out-disappear-gif-15464202

[tawdry basin]

Yes, I think

[earnest mulch]

Don't make me manual summon like some normie

[oak moss]

It's bugged and sometimes invisible, but if you try to hypa it will work

And if you try to summon it just won't work because there technically are summons you just can't see them

Hope it gets fixed soon

[dusky ginkgo]

A prime example here was ghost getting hit in the log but no ghosts on screen

This class is too much fun so far

Though towers and dungeons are a little rough but I just haven’t figured out the GS way to do them yet

[fathom kettle]

You want gsa tower/dg build?

[dusky ginkgo]

Not really 😅 GS and GSA don’t really interest me at the moment outside of Ultima on GS 😂

But I’ll read the guide on it when I’m ready to give them a shot

[austere sedge]

the behir staff should get pact bonus because it could be a great staff for hypa 👀

[tardy trail]

How would it be great for HyPa?

Can’t autosummon beithir, and it would probably have a lot less pact bonus than a cele 2H, if it got any

And since summon hp doesn’t matter in HyPa beithir is kinda irrelevant, when we already have summon dead, ghosts, scarecrow and so

[austere sedge]

i didn't know we can't auto summon off hand summons (i never used off hand summon with gsh)

i thought that if t10 behir get summoned it will be tanky(doesn't die to enemies fast) and horde so it could be useful before ppl get pact staff

[earnest mulch]

I have been playing with the beithir staff, it's always been a GSH weapon at heart, beithir is really good for blood pact. Can ne a pain to get all 5 beithir out but even with a few of them you're throwing decent blood pacts. Plus they have good disruption attacks.

Its more of a raid weapon, honestly

[tardy trail]

And it's BiS for BP duo, but overall it's worse than dual wielding, and for HyPa it just isn't any good

[earnest mulch]

Hypa to set up buff, blood pact the main damager, very consistent. You can even life pact them back up if youre a nice guy.

20 pact on the staff would be pretty generous, as a believer in beithir i'd be thankful.

[fathom kettle]

If beithir staff got pact stat, i think bp would be very nice on it

[earnest mulch]

I was getting a few 3-5mil blood pacts with it with conservative buffs

[tardy trail]

Idk, wouldn't it be better to just summon and use BP, or just use HyPa and not BP?

Like, you're killing your summons with HyPa, which reduces your BP damage, and you're risking that for some temps that might fade as you charge the BP, plus you might not even get the temp mag

[earnest mulch]

Hypa is expensive, and for whatever reason the autosummons are not summoning enough to feed me as ammo. I'll take the huge hp of the beithir and fire off blood pacts. Hypa just can't sustain.

Hypa let's me charge the hydrus boost but the longest ive gone without an autosummon in testing is 24 turns. Normally 10 turns and nothing is bad enough

If it were an uncommon thing I'd chalk it up to bad luck, but there's a lot of times that 40% feels more like 20%

Just now it took a skeleton 9 turns to summon on gsh, lol

Thats so nasty

To my surprise, hypa is not a very good sweep attack. It being a multi-target attack seems to actually just hurt it. It's a good charging skill tho, and CAN be clutch, but I'd rather just use any other AoE skill off the 2H weapons even if it means 100-120 less pact damage.

Yelmogus Staff is my current choice in mobbing

[rapid panther]

Also beithir replicate himself, even if you kill it there is an high chance to refill the board fast

[earnest mulch]

Beithir replication seems to have been toned down, I remember it used to be a lot more common.

Dang things used to try to spawn when there was already 5 out all the time

[tardy trail]

Yeah, it's not working properly atm

#1449756538565824605 message

[earnest mulch]

Plus they are cute

My babies

Then hydrus pact only doing like 900k, its wonderfully silly

Beautiful

[floral jewel]

Starting to come around on Hydrus pact raiding

Would be great if they fix the invisible summons though

[spark swift]

Did you only put skeleton (VSS, Summon dead) on spells loadout?

[earnest mulch]

Would that for whatever reason increase the likelihood of anything spawning?

[earnest mulch]

Oh, is a "full slot" screwing it up?

[spark swift]

If, charon ritual trigger..
Summon dead will give you 3 - 4 skelly while summon VSS 2 - 3..

[earnest mulch]

Thats IF the ability triggers, it's just not triggering. I run a. dragon, cockatrice, and skeleton for the bulk summon for pvp.

I get that you don't want them to always spawn for some fairness as you very quickly ramp up if you have consistent ammo. The luck can be really nasty.

[wind void]

Idk about you guys but it is rough trying to get summons out in horde and more specifically tower content, even decent hp summons can get erased before I can get any hypa's off

[ruby raven]

Yeah gsh isn't meant for towers lol

[night gale]

GSH upgrade went well. Low AL players now taking my territories like piece of cake. 👍

I can only imagine it looks like this:

[dusky ginkgo]

Low AL Players already had Bloodray which hits that hard without a doublecast, can’t miss, and can’t be blocked

I’ve found people able to resist even my all in magic build of Hydrus Pact and it can miss or be dodged or blocked by a pet and splits its damage if there are multiple targets to get. I actually don’t think Hydrus Pact is an issue whereas I think Bloodray is

However, since ward scales so obscenely well with ALs and mages have largely been left out of PvP spent much of the last several years at a severe disadvantage in PvP (and can’t defend their territories with these moves) these things are needed if PvP isn’t going to only be tailored to the top 1% of players

[slate wharf]

If anyone could give help or advice, I'm struggling in towers using hydrus pact and not having summons respawn quick enough. Here is my current gear set..

I plan to go to quarterstaff once I get the adorns for it, still leveling

[fathom kettle]

Hydrus pact is beyond not being usable in towers

[slate wharf]

Is any other multi hit possible? Like AV2?

[fathom kettle]

If you want tower build, go gsa with yel armor, apol 2 quarterstaffs/cele axe with summon stats and shield

Or

Gs mixed bp

With ad and ghydra/mammoth

[slate wharf]

I have a perfect GSA tower build, its just slow

[fathom kettle]

Then its not Perfect

[slate wharf]

Lemme post it

[fathom kettle]

Yea i can see it

[slate wharf]

Really?

[fathom kettle]

Not enough summon stats

Heres mine for yel towers

For normal towers i can do double quarterstaff or cele axe mnem tshard adorns and shield

[slate wharf]

I don't have any yel stuff unfortunately

[fathom kettle]

If you don't got quarterstaff, cele axe with eos augments that give summon stats work

You should try getting it slowly, even standard ones work

[slate wharf]

Gotcha

[fathom kettle]

For summons, i use ad and mammoth for yel

For normal its panda and jinn

Gsa and maybe gsh bl2 are two main tower classes for summoner

[slate wharf]

Where is yelbeghan? Dungeons or dens?

[fathom kettle]

Special towers

[slate wharf]

OK yep, just saw

Gotta get ginding for that

[spark swift]

Hydrus pact only care about magic, pact power, and summons on field..
5 arms of eos and rift summoner helmet already overkill..
Consistent ammo need summon dead and summon VSS in your loadout spells..
If you bring other summoning spells that only spawn 1 summon, it can ruin it and still has some issue with multiple enemies..
Since it's very luck based, need to pair it with disciple of finesse spec..

[void scaffold]

I like Ghost too since they also summon multiple but are immune to physical thus may survive an occasional attack

[dusky ginkgo]

I will say with Hydrus having comparable magic to HCorvus, you can just BL2 through towers with it. It has the same issues as Heretic plus summons minus the ability to AV when you need to clear a dangerous floor

[earnest mulch]

I dunno, I haven't had any problems tho.

[fathom kettle]

Since there's no talk here, ima say something

How about making yel quarterstaff have no bl2, but autosummon, +targets from pact and pact %?

Making yel summoner staff actually be summoner releted not worse version of greatstaff

[sinful light]

Auto summon +20 in exchange for a celestial staff with 5x pact effectiveness and nekro staff?

More consistent auto summons at the cost of lower DMG output

[fathom kettle]

Auto summon, pact % and maybe +target from hypa, making it hypa actually be nice for horde content

It would be worse than current hypa builds for raids so it that content would't be affected

[dusky ginkgo]

I'd rather have a new item than do that to the Yel Quarterstaff, myself. I say that because BL2 plus buff dispersion isn't useless to me 😄 but I'm the weirdo using GSH in towers 😅

I'd also say let's wait and see what January brings with the theoretical morri remake! 😄

[void scaffold]

First and foremost we need to wait for the fixes to happen concerning

• split dmg calc
• chain chance
• invisible summons
  Since those directly influence our gameplay.

[earnest mulch]

Put that on beithir staff

[earnest mulch]

Oh lord more cOrt stuff

[floral jewel]

Since you're the main voice behind this rework. What was the main idea behind it? I thought it was to make GSH good at horde content but I only feel like it improved raiding and is still unusable in horde dungeons or towers

[kind summit]

(+ 1 ward turn per sacrifice when using hydrus pact 🤭)

[void scaffold]

I'm the one who summariezes the thousands of messages concerning GS matters over the course of literal years.
The voices are you, the community🙂

Yes the main idea was to make it outstanding in fast paced horde within its classline.
Competing with others has been taken into account power wise but was not the main focus.
Like i said kinks have to be sorted out to get a propper picture before making any adjustments in terms of raw power since like you mentioned a neat sideffect was GSHs improved raid capabilities.

[void scaffold]

That's a balance decision not a fix.

[floral jewel]

The description says "one ward turn is gained per each summon sacrificed"

[floral jewel]

I get that. 0AL RS or deity can perform better at higher anguish than my 80AL summoner and that's very disheartening lol

[void scaffold]

The tooltip is wrong and misleading however it reducing it to 1 turn per use rather than 1 per sacced summon was a decision.

[floral jewel]

So the rework took a year? Released as a buggy mess and is still weak. Lol

[dusky ginkgo]

Not that it is the same thing but I’m sure they feel the same about endless

However, I think once the damage split is fixed and invisible summons, hordes should feel better than they do if I’m not mistaken. They feel a little clunky but I’ve been enjoying hordes without relying on BL2 or Despair so far

And as has been the case with most classes I end up enjoying, I try out the things where people say the class is weak so I’ll be working my way up in Agony and Melancholy on Anguish so I can try and theorycraft/provide better input that helps the high AL players

That said, I’m not sure I think the class is weak myself

[floral jewel]

I feel like the community is happy about a small improvement even though it's still not enough to make the class good

Or maybe my expectation was higher because we've been waiting for so long

[fathom kettle]

I'd argue gsh is bare minimum for it to be considered class naw, however i'd still change 2 passives for anything else

Guidelight passive should be built in summoner class not as passive, its kinda expected from it.

[void scaffold]

The discussions leading to the rework took a year since we had an attempt like a year ago but the discussions about it went on, across the betas.

I'd not call it a mess, yes it has some hickups to work through however due to HyPa being a brand new mechanic technical wise that's to be expected with the beta testing crowd being rather small.

And 'weak' doesn't do the class justice imo.

[floral jewel]

Fine it's not weak

But it's not great

It's the bare minimum to get by and doesn't even meet that on higher anguish

Especially since it was advertised as being great in horde

Don't know why we lost T.All^^^ from list of buffs from hypa

Don't know why proc chance of t.mag^^ and t.mag^^^ is so low

Both of t.all and t.mag can be gotten from a pet for other classes

Overall damage of hypa was decreased by a third from beta

That's from raid comparison at least

[tardy trail]

That’s cap, if you’re talking about the multi-hit removal

It’s true that now it’s more difficult to hit for the same amount as in the beta, at least with no damage limit break

But the overall damage hasn’t really changed, unless you’re stacked

Difference is that now it’s one big hit instead of 3, but the damage is arguably the same

As long as you’re using damage limit break, as I mentioned before

[spark swift]

What suffering?

[floral jewel]

From screenshot you can see it's not because Geo hit cap you can't tell

And fraudulent testing you have more buffs lol

[earnest mulch]

Hell yeah, baby. Welcome to summoner supremacy. We do not ANGUISH, we SUFFER damnation for our sins(using buggane in t8 pvp).

[ruby raven]

Suffering indeed

My main problem is definitely the charon passive, doesn't feel like it procs enough to call consistent

Summons die very easy at locked 80% summon stats, basically anything can 1 tap them like nothing the further anguish you go

And AOE staying our true counter regardless of the celestial class change, is just evil 🤣💀

That's imo

[void scaffold]

It's just to show the difference of capping per (multi) hit vs capping at one hit i think.
The dmg did indeed not chance from beta to live, well it did at first from fixing the on hit effect bug, but got reverted to their former values.

[void scaffold]

All concerns i hear atm are number concerns

• no t.all+++
• t.mag++/+++ procc too low
• CR rate too low
• no multi hit (hitting cap)

Those are concerns that may or may be not tackled in the future when we have the data and experience with the new class to support those eventual changes.
They're not concept related.

Again, we've to wait until everything runs smooth and then go on about what needs to be changed .

[spark swift]

Eh, no..
Suffering for me using GSH is finishing raid below 1 minute at that shackled anguish level..

[tardy trail]

It’s just to show that now it’s a big bit vs the previous 3 hits, and he had DC up and more AL in that ss

[floral jewel]

I misunderstood. I apologise

I blame the autism 🙃

[tardy trail]

Still, it’s true that it was better in the beta in that sense

Since now you’d need to give up some things for the damage limit break

But yeah, the overall damage hasn’t really changed

[tardy trail]

As Kaine mentioned here

[floral jewel]

What's CR rate in this context?

[void scaffold]

Chance for Charon Ritual to procc

[floral jewel]

Oh

Yeah.

I would've preferred for that to be the baseline and adjust from there instead of having to work back to that

Now we won't see another balance change for another year

[spark swift]

This, was suffering..

[floral jewel]

Cade deleting all summons every turn is suffering

Same with fjorm spamming chain lightning

[ruby raven]

Scrugg is evil too

A.mammon turned into krampus

[void scaffold]

Tried it too with usual HyPa strats, doesn't work. Fell back to stronger summons and it wa okayish. Base GS even better. Having weaknesses is to be expected.
HyPa is one part of the arsenal.

Also i personally dislike the 'in beta it was stronger' chatter.
Beta is a testing ground.
There's been times where GSH was way weaker or stronger during testing and exploration.
Referring to beta values and being stubborn about them just leads to cautious developing in an environment where we all benefit from transparent exploration.
We're live now with live values and a kit we were confident with to publish, that needs to be tested and verified, so let's focus on what we have instead of what once was during a testing period.

[kind summit]

i would be happy to balance it back to beta version 😆🤣

[void scaffold]

Dude i just gave a 'let's move on from beta' speech

[austere sedge]

i want beta gsh too🫣

[earnest mulch]

My biggest issue is Second Chance, it is basically a death sentence on GSH, not a saving ability.
Your entire team is wiped and you're left there waiting to be put out of your misery. You get an extra whole turn to say your good byes.

[austere sedge]

and just in case your cr rate helps any aoe or horde enemy Will be enough lol

[earnest mulch]

Does crit rate impact blood/hydrus pact?

[austere sedge]

probably no since both can't crit

[earnest mulch]

That's what I thought too

[austere sedge]

that is why nobody requested crit poise on gsh

Well you can't add crit on quad scale spell

and a spell that is created to avoid ppl from using quad scale spell

[earnest mulch]

It honestly hits hard enough as it is without crit if you spec it right, it's the misses that get me, haha

[floral jewel]

Beta Vs live in general is a weird progression in orna not just for GSH.
We test things, we say "oh that's nice I like it, it's strong but fun" and Odie goes "well we can't be having that" and gives less

This happens almost every time lol

[fathom kettle]

Ngl, rework of yel quarterstaff to make it actually summoner weapon and hypa bug fixes would make gsh decent at horde maybe

Or new summoner mainly items that would give hypa buffs

For eg staff that lets hypa target more enemies with 2 summons

[tardy trail]

How is it not a summoner weapon when it has summon stats and the disperse chance?

[void scaffold]

The conversion from the final stage beta GSH to live was solid.
The thing that mainly changed was the multiple hits that interfered with HyPa being able to utilize on hit effects.

[fathom kettle]

Summon stats don't matter for gsh, same with disperse

Greatstaff is better option for gsh horde content

[tardy trail]

GSH isn't the only summoner, say it's not a GSH weapon, if something

[fathom kettle]

Alr, but for gsa it's not usable too

Only endless, but again, that's 1 content where it alr excels at

[tardy trail]

This yeah

[fathom kettle]

Ophion banner or summon stats are simply superior options for gsa

So ima still say yel quarterstaff is very mid for summoner

And that greatstaff is better

[rapid panther]

You can use it with base GS for an hybrid player + summon dmg

[earnest mulch]

I was gonna say it's a lower end summoner weapon regarding % but it's pretty good, about half the summon % of most boss-level summon weapons

[earnest mulch]

Summon stats matter, my blood pacts need yummy yummy hp

[ruby raven]

Less meant for a summoner playstyle, and more meant for a mage playstyle

Imo yeah I do think BL2 was very questionable for a summoner weapon since 90% of summoners can hardly make use of it, till the GSH rework, now it's effective on GSH but dispurse chance makes no sense on it

[fathom kettle]

Ima just say, summon stats don't matter when using gsh yel quarterstaff, there's no use for it to be there kinda.

[fathom kettle]

Also agreed, however greatstaff just does alot better job there since higher mag stat

[floral jewel]

Just checking in. Chain damage and chance of hypa still not fixed? Same with invisible summons?

[void scaffold]

Not to my knowledge no

[bronze relic]

so any updates from players who still testing gsh?

any testing in party play?

i kept suggesting even back in the day that gsh should be able to hit 3 enemies with hypa while having 2 summons. Especially for party play, you can only get 2 summons for the party of 4 and u can't reliably clean up well on higher floors. Cus split damage and having 2 summons isnt enough.

with no ward upkeep it's easy to get taken out if u miss and don't proc parting remark. We don't have summon prot so it's expected to get hit a lil more compared to other gs classlines with summon prot.

Hypa not giving u 3 ward turns even doe u hit 3 enemies make it really difficult to sustain that. And it's not efficient to just sit for 20 secs spamming woo, and even if u chink the horde down to 1 that would still hit u with a decent damage, enough to chunk that ward down. Making the ward practically useless since u have no more ward left.

and this is also the reason why damage split isnt as good especially for party play. If u can't kill with hypa, there'll be a lot of hiccups and no kill = no parting remark proc so meaning more hiccups in the dungeon run.

I wish t. mags would have a little higher proc chance like 35% compared to other which only have 25%

Gsh could be further improved, but for now I don't think this is the class built to excel at hordes. Right now it excels at raids which is a good bonus ofc but horde content could use some improvement

u can't do towers with hypa, as opposed to heretic's vestaga skill line up. It be a lot fun and would actually offer more build paths if there are items to support and synergize with gsh's passive. Cus right it's most just 2h for aoe, and then celestial weap for a pact spam in dungeon that could be 2h or dualwield its up to u. And that's pretty much it, pact dungeons is alright but not practical imo. I could do envy gsh but that would not mean it's practical, it'll work but realistically that's not how you want your dungeons to look like every run.

Less time = more efficiency

I'll just drop my 2 cents here, honestly i just gave up on making gsh work on mid-high mel. It doesn't feel like a great horde class that we talked about and tested during the beta access and beta discussions. Right now gsh feels like it's only halfway there, im not saying there's not any improvements, there's a lot actually. But let's not settle and get carried away by hype cus gsh was literally unplayable to barely playable.

by barely playable im talking about doing the bare minimum

[oak moss]

Overall agree, gsh became way better at raids than it did on horde proportionally

Still waiting for the split damage fix to roll out maybe that will help but yeah dungeons feel really rng

[void scaffold]

Luckily we've most points noted👍
https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1449756538565824605
including

• chain chance
• lower split dmg
• ward turns

I'd wait for chain chance to work on HyPa before adjusting how many opponents are hit.
Tower capabilities is an interesting one, having Hydrus staying charged during tower was one suggestion but i don't know how that'd work.
Maybe making it not a battle but an overall chargeable passive like Crest of Lyonesse?

Anyway i don't expect any changes until 2026.

[earnest mulch]

Chain chance sounds nice, those other things are pretty nice as well.

• maybe a weak spam summon mob that is immune to magic damage?(like how ghost is immune to physical damage)

[final wagon]

so for raids I tried a bit of things in some hundred raids at a variety of agony levels (mostly shackled so ppl can test themselves and we rule out high al as the reason the build works) and here are my takeaway for gsh:

1. have to be sequencer. there mostly aren't broken amities for us to raid even if you have a 50 pos double liner that isn't broken. occasional double cast is good enough with the added mag from seq, and it allows to play 2 turn DC which sinergizes with buff duration which we play for "obvious reasons". also we desperately need ashen ruby so can't be celestial+ shield, nor 2h build. also we need dam cap break on anguish passive on a weapon (unless pos+dam break amity)

tried various chests, it basically has to be Dulla. balanced and decent Des/res and tmag++ is kinda broken in our style. same reason why it has to be 2x lugus accessory unless you are dealing with a bunch of the same raid and need a specific immunity

Hera robe is less damage than tmag++ up (although higher cap as we can get tmag++ anyway ourselves occasionally) , dynasty is better in legs regardless if that's what we want to use. so only flex spot is legs where it's FSS vs dynasty vs last martyr Legwraps. the latter if we have everything rolled high enough that with ornate rhadas or jocs everywhere we start to tank for real

head is necessarily arisen rift summ, can't do better than the x1.4 guaranteed.

adorns in nekro 3 orichalcum + ashen ruby. starting summons I am still uncertain even after hundreds of raids, lately I am doing vss/dead only seems to work but who knows.

we suck vs aoe raids (scrug unplayable, snake almost unplayable and so on), summoning raids we are slow because damage splits

[sinful light]

Cockatrice cernunins? Petrify + song of magic for that mag^ but could be replaced with anything else I guess

Sphinx kit could be good too for RNG cleanse

[earnest mulch]

I been using beithirs for raids with 2h support just cuz blood pact let's me smack decent

[austere sedge]

uh any update on bug fixes or buffs?

this thread is dying (it's actually already dead)

[void scaffold]

Not yet, i'll continue digging once we're one week into the event.

[kind summit]

After more than three weeks since the GSH rework, I would like to share my honest opinion and feedback on the class overhaul. (The Necromancer-style gameplay is a brilliant idea.)
First, I will explain the passive abilities, then the skill Hydrus Pact, and finally give an assessment and share experiences from the different game modes, based on time spent in the beta and later in the live game.

Passive Abilities

Paired Essence IV
[Quick Summons: 2] means Turn 1 ammunition with solid damage in PvP.

Charon Ritual II
[40% Auto Summon Chance] feels good overall. In some situations you wish it would trigger more often; in others, the field is already full anyway (e.g. when casting buffs). For me, this feels well balanced, especially since you should still rely on summoning spells (I mean you are a summoner after all...).
Because summons now serve as “ammunition” for Hydrus Pact, this passive is also absolutely essential.

Regarding [Second Chance (10% per Summon on the field)], I hear a lot of negative feedback from the community. First, the chance is quite low unless you have five summons on the field—which is rarely the case after using Hydrus Pact. In practice, this means a maximum of 20% activation chance after attacking.
Additionally, when it does trigger, you are left without any summons because they are all sacrificed. When Hydrus Pact still granted three Ward turns, this felt fairly balanced. In its current state, it feels more like a minor annoyance and somewhat out of place. That said, since I usually don’t have a full field anyway, I don’t notice it that often.

Grand Summoner of Hydrus
[80% Summon Stats, 60% Summon Pacts] fits perfectly, as the focus is clearly on pacts. This is an absolute identity-defining passive.

Hydrus
[10% Souls Collected] up to 100% is a nice stat boost that charges extremely well through Hydrus Pact, especially in raids.
The [Sacrifice Effect: 10%] temporary buffs are particularly well designed. This is a completely new way of buffing and gives GSH a strong and unique identity. With 50% buff duration (Amity) and Orichalcum Mortars (5% each), these buffs are good to maintain.
The removal of all^^^ is an obvious nerf compared to the beta—offensively, probably the strongest one. I would personally love to see it return, but that is purely my own opinion.

Spell
Hydrus Pact

An absolutely fantastic spell that does not scale with summoning stats. Very high damage is possible (100–120% Pact Celestial Staff + 40% Pact Helmet are essentially mandatory).
I really miss the possible three Ward turns (one per sacrifice) from the beta—this is honestly the change that hurts me the most. Sacrificing summons and then having to cast an almost mandatory summoning spell afterward created some sort of a loop and 3 ward turns was a good way to avoid being completely defenseless.
I strongly hope the three possible Ward turns make it back into the live game. For me, this would be the solution to compensate for the previously mentioned Second Chance drawbacks.

Game Modes

Raids
I think Blood Pact builds have higher damage potential, but I personally enjoy the GSH playstyle with Hydrus Pact much more. There is room for improvement in Ward turn management. Otherwise, it’s a lot of fun. Build variety is somewhat limited, as much of the gear feels almost mandatory (Pact gear + buff duration).

PvP
Very strong Turn 1 damage potential. After that (if you miss or the opponent survives), the class becomes extremely vulnerable and usually loses, since there are no summons left.

Dungeons & Tower
BL2 is the best option against more than three enemies. Against single surviving targets, Hydrus Pact is useful. In principle, everything is doable, but the class does not particularly stand out.

I hope for some adjustments in the near future...

[sinful light]

Btw Hydrus passive doesn't boost any healing pacts like life pact

[austere sedge]

is it just me or ward doesn't help when you use hypa in coa dgn

if enemy attack after hypa

[void scaffold]

Are you frogged?

[austere sedge]

maybe that's why

[pastel mica]

To my knowledge, that is because healing pacts don't care about your mag stat, only about your HP, pact multipliers and MagBuffs

class stat passives (Like resurgence, bastille, and hydrus' souls) actually increase your stats, rather than being buff multipliers - so it adding to your mag stat isn't increasing healing pact effectiveness

[earnest mulch]

Oh it's definitely adding to healing, I was healing huge amounts once my magic was buffed high

[tardy trail]

Nah, the hydrus passive isn’t doing anything there

It’s just the mag buffs

[sinful light]

I did a personal test to verify, but John hits the mark. You're only healing that much because of the mag buffs, not because of hydrus passive or mag stats you have.

I confirmed by comparing the healing with 2x arisen rings and without, no difference. But once I popped a mag^ that was where the increase happened

[void scaffold]

GSH does heal more due to its bigger HP pool and inate pact multiplier. That's why you could consider switching before using LP.

[earnest mulch]

Fair, thought about that just now

[crystal girder]

@void scaffold what changes or fixes do you think is the best atm for GSH? Is it at a good state? or still bad? What's your opinion on the current GSH vs GS/GSA scaling problem? I would like to hear your thoughts about this. cheers.

[austere sedge]

before buff we need to get split damage bug (if it exists)

[crystal girder]

Also are HyPa I/II chain skills? Do they benefit from Chain damage buffs?

[void scaffold]

HyPa is sort of a split dmg AoE with a weird dmg calc on multiple targets.
As MrPlague said we need to sort this odd behaviour between single and multi target dmg out.
Also it's currently unaffected by chain chance so hitting e.g. 3 targets with 2 summons sacced is currently impossible.

It's overall in a much much better state than pre rework. The best state it's ever been. Currently i prefer it in raids and horde content due to its comparably to its peers massive stats plus the t.buff multipliers and the safety that comes from them.
A. Morri at Ang 5 doesn't even scratch me.

I don't see a scaling problem since due to its buffs on buffs on buffs nature it scales just fine imo.

Things that need to be adressed

• dmg calc against multiple opponents
• chain chance
• invisible summons

Stuff that could be added

• HyPa ward turns per sacced summons
• some more def
• more gear that fits its style to shape it

[bronze relic]

good in raids but not really exceptional in hordes

[bronze relic]

.

[rapid panther]

i would put def down on the priorities since the new serpent pearl kinda solves the problem

[austere sedge]

maybe alternative of second chance too

[void scaffold]

This was just my personal opinion.
What the majority seems feasible is here
https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1449756538565824605

[crystal girder]

900 K damage pact should be divided evenly at 300K each, but idk why mine did 90K on each (T.all+ and T.mag+++ excluded).

also the graphical bug on summons not showing when CR II peocs.

and ward turns

@void scaffold is the 40% and CR II and second chance in a good spot as per your opinion?

[sinful light]

Imo second chance should also pop out all your buffs so you actually have a chance because most other 2nd chance classes become deadlier if they survive. Recliners deal more DMG, have higher dodge, more stats, somewhat similar for blue lining hera.

Second chance GSH is naked without summons and without HP, best they can do is pop a panacea and hope the next hit isn't another OHKO, or cast summon dead and pray the cannon fodder gets hit, and then hit them with a hypact

[crystal girder]

I somehow agree to this, but idk if life siphon can fix this if equipped

[void scaffold]

I actually like the idea of 2nd chance proccing Hydrus' t.buff chance

[crystal girder]

Like all the T.Buffs in one?

[void scaffold]

No just the usual 10% per sacced summon

On the other hand i think every pact like e.g. Sacrifice Pact should trigger those t.buffs too

[fierce crag]

Sounds interesting for me. For dungeons: if t.mag procs, you could use an attacking spell, whereas with t.def/res, you can think about casting new summons.

[fathom kettle]

Sounds good but i think it could be bit higher, since your kinda defensless after 2nd chance

Maybe 20%

[void scaffold]

It technically is bigger than usual since you can sacc up to 5 summons this way instead of the usual 3

[fathom kettle]

Depends, often you get hit after using hypa so you got 2 summons, unless charon procs and you can have 3 to 5

I personally don't like the 2nd chance killing every summon but it is what it is, so atleast give us smth in return

[austere sedge]

finally my suggestion has been noticed (now i can die with peace XD)

[austere sedge]

yeah

[crystal girder]

imo, GSH's Second-chance needs to satisfy 2 requirements while the other's only have 1 requirement.

GSH's Second-Chance:

• Chance for it to proc
• Needs an active/alive summon in field

Other Class's Second-Chance:

• Chance for proc (BeoH is the same, but the pet will fall instead of you)

I don't mind the uniqueness of it, it's just the extra requirement for it to proc.

[austere sedge]

hear me out but if gsh can get recharge like passive but that fills mana but instead of crit there is x% chance of recharge (let's make my rng class more rng XD)

[austere sedge]

instead of Mana it could be anything else if it's useful enough

ik this is a bad suggestion

but maybe

maybeee

[earnest mulch]

Swap out the Second Chance that has poor synergy with something like Staying Power(buffs last longer, debuffs fade faster)

Every single time i've had second chance go off i'm basically dead the next turn with nothing to do to protect myself anyway.
All 5 summons are gone, and you're like a fish scooped out of the water waiting to be put out of your misery

[fathom kettle]

Smh, few of us wanted it but deities won't like it

[fierce crag]

Ooh, staying power would synergize so great with hydrus passive! If I remember correctly, many deities were more concerned about keeping steadfast than staying power?

But w/o staying power, maybe it even makes sense to switch some gorgon/cerus adorns to orichalcum mortar (and some pinions)? (in contrast, the 40% crit amities are probably too valuable for chaning to +50% pos status effects) 🤔

[fathom kettle]

Yup, but pretty sure it was suggested alr couple times, even i suggested it once i think

Probably way up in thread tho

[fierce crag]

ah, ok. too long thread... 😅

[crystal girder]

others might hate it for GSH having Staying Power, HyPa already doable by Deity. They might say, "Why not play Deity - Dark Riftus HyPa", "why make more OP, more OP".

Maybe add a "Spell is better when used by Summoner Class" into Pacts or something.

[fierce crag]

No, there is no "staying power" in this thread - must have been a different thread 😄

[fathom kettle]

I don't think deity using hypa is that bad no?

[crystal girder]

But I do agree with Charon Ritual II's Second-Chance being not synergyzing with GSH's kit.

[crystal girder]

I think some are against it.

[fathom kettle]

It def won't come close to gsh, i don't see it as bad thing. Beo with eos can use hypa aswell, maybe if deities could use it for free tbuffs but tbuff proc isn't huge and they got alot better options

[crystal girder]

Is it the same with the Spike Shield/Chained Shield issue? Where any class can use it?

I feel like it's the same, but I only played SS on RSDora and GSA.

[crystal girder]

Yeah, I don't really see the problem of Deities using HyPa, I mean they can play anything cause they are Gods, they can even use any gear. Also they lose like 60% Pact Damage by using Deity class.

[fathom kettle]

Autosummons too

Not like its usable outside of raids(pretty sure) since your spending turn and apex on summoning

[crystal girder]

100% from Celes Aug + 20% Nekro + 40% on Rift Summ Head. So about 160% Pact dmg for Deities.

• they need to charge Apex to Summon Dark Riftus right?

I really don't see the problem that they are fighting.

Passive - When a pact deals damage you restore .5% HP, Mana and Ward for the total damage done by the pact.

too OP?

[austere sedge]

i actually want ward regen passive with gsh

[austere sedge]

not sure if 0.5 is good it should be a bit lower

[crystal girder]

We could play around summon slots/field itself, make it become a resource too. 5-4 Summons alive, GSH gains 60% Magic. 3-2 summons, GSH gains 35% def+res/ 35% Magic. 0-1 summon alive, GSH gets 80% Def/Res (or something defensive like evasion).

Only one out of the three is active depending if the requirements are met for each one.

[austere sedge]

too complex

and inconsistent because or charon ritual

[crystal girder]

A bit complex, i agree haha. But the idea is if the at the end of buffing stage when field is full, you have increased mag because 5-4 pacts are alive, you HyPa, sacc 3, 2 left you are in 2nd stance where dmg and defensive stats are turned on. If summons die, leaving you at 0-1, you become tanky. If CR procs and field gets filled, then you get 60% mag bonus and HyPa

[austere sedge]

i see but it's too complex

it will become difficult to utilize it

[earnest mulch]

I don't need the debuff fade, I'll take a buff duration+. Go through all that effort to pop buffs and they fade right away is wacky

[austere sedge]

buff duration would be nice

[fierce crag]

Yeah, so gods would have "steadfast 2" (which includes 40% buff duration and 40% debuff fade), and GSH "steadfast 1" (30% buff duration) 😁

[oak moss]

I don't think buff duration is needed ngl, gsh is pretty good as it is, we just need the bugs fixed and we can brainstorm after that

Currently dungeons feel off because of hypa acting weird

And CR spawns invisible summons during raids which makes it really awkward

Ward turns on hypa definitely need to be increased though

[austere sedge]

it's about to be month bruh everytime it's 'we can brainstorm after that'

having suggestion isn't bad

[austere sedge]

btw i think that seems a bit rude sorry

[oak moss]

No dw man

But I don't think buff duration is needed on a passive

We have 50% duration amith

And mortars

Thats like more than enough duration ngl

[austere sedge]

it's not a priority

just random suggestion that could be good

[oak moss]

sure I guess

[fierce crag]

But for Dungeons, we need 2x 40% crit amities, no? Crit+duration amity would be peak 😁 but yes, orichalkum is an option (I guess I need at least 2 full BL2 sets 😅)

[bronze relic]

.

im lazy to type so I'll just reply to my take hehehe

[fathom kettle]

Depends, works for raids sure, put 3 mortars on nekro and boom, but for dgs? Its hard

But i agree, if those bugs are fixed, maybe dgs will be possible

Without 40 crit 50 pos amity tho, you can't use bl2 which is best dg option with thinblade but that's not gsh thing

[rapid panther]

Once hypa gets fixed it's possible storming tempest with chain dmg might be best option, or another non crit option

[signal oasis]

I could be wrong. But from what im seeing you get quite a bit of milage from going hybrid

[signal oasis]

Took forever because i kept playing like a bozo but hybrid actually works decently. Only using like 1 pact on my Lute if it was full of pacts could be much stronger

I kinda like how it its its versatile and tanky with almost any build you throw onto it.

[signal oasis]

Maybe a niche home for cringe brews. 🤣😂😅

[fathom kettle]

It isn't

Anything can work at low ang

• from what im seeing your runs are slow

I agree with waiting for fixes for hypa to decide, but it def isn't gonna be comperable to other mag using classes in horde content

Gsa does dg/tower faster and safer, especially at higher ang

[austere sedge]

his damage is lacking too

[signal oasis]

XD i don't have good gear yet

[fathom kettle]

Show

Also, it doesn't matter much, my friend still does gsa dgs better than his gsh bl2

With perfect ornate greatstaff

And near perfect ornate set

[rapid panther]

This would probably work better with a qatvanga lol

[signal oasis]

Probably huh 😮 ill try that next

That might be what I was looking for

[signal oasis]

Tbh im waiting for mori event because apparently the phobia thingy is also a Lute

Quest*

[thin gulch]

i would suggest using gsa for dungeons..

the jinn and beaver work great

[bronze relic]

jinn + panda is enough

[austere sedge]

is beaver aoe?

no ig

[thin gulch]

oh i meant panda yeah

summon a few of them in your best summon gear

then swap to buffing gear and finish the dungeon

if you like swapping you could swap sets after buffing to either full horde dungeon bonus or orn boosting gear

[fathom kettle]

You don't even need panda, aoe like jin and mammoth work great too

You kinds need mammoths if you pushed mel without higher mel

[spark swift]

Why thrud?
Better to use Snotra..
😑

[signal oasis]

Nah

Sontra hits less with hybrid because at 10 stacks it has enough attack for hybrid to actually matter.

Hybrid + pact bonus actually fucking slaps.

[spark swift]

All of those are spells..

[signal oasis]

So hilder for atk + magic.

[spark swift]

It's not work like that..

[signal oasis]

Vs snotra which massively reduces attack and fks up the hybrid Damage.

I understand hybrid ideally they are the exact same. But it hits harder

Iv been using it all week

Its a visible difference

[spark swift]

Battle buff mostly M2 increase..
If it's low damage, mostly because your mag and atk stats is not balance..

[rapid panther]

with qatvanga you can fill it with solarite mortar for 2h bonus and use snotra, should have an higher boost than going hybrid since gsh atk is low

[signal oasis]

Irs really not low attack is what yall are missing.

At x10 buff its attack balances out alot more than you think.

Atleast if feels like it.

Like im guaranteeing someone with actual good gear & hybrid run hybrid and they'll deal more damage filling Lute with pact hands & hybrid amity that max mage.

Like shit dont make sense but it just works.

Especially when you go from pact to non pact moves your damage is exponentially greator

Probably like 5% better than pact w.o hybrid. And 50% better than max mage qatvaga

[signal oasis]

Yall were right. However theres definitely a place for HYBRID even with max mage gear.

[bronze relic]

idk bout that

[signal oasis]

I dont get it or why it works but it does.

You'd think making spells hybrid would LOWER overall dps but it just doesn't.

They stay the same and sometimes are even better than just mage investment.

Im wondering how much attack the passive gives

[austere sedge]

guys hear me out

if you tried gsh with dof/bof you'll realize that extra turn is very very useful

remove second chance give lil avidity and lil dodge chance

[tardy trail]

You know avidity is a shadowmancy only thing, right?

[austere sedge]

you know that gsh is also a thief right?
even if you don't consider it it's not a problem all i want a some passive that give extra turn sometimes (if it doesn't happen it's fine too) but
dodge chance on gsh (dependent on no. of summon on field) is necessary and is way better than current second chance

it even synergize with current second chance

[signal oasis]

Current second chance has never proced for me.

[austere sedge]

it's dependent on no. of field so it doesn't synergize with it making it inconsistent

that's why it never proc for you

it rarely does if you are using hypa

[signal oasis]

Almost all of my deaths recently iv had 5 on the feald.

[austere sedge]

you got unlucky ig

[signal oasis]

Amori likes to attack only me multiple turns in a row xP

[austere sedge]

same

[austere sedge]

heretic has 2 manaflask skills that give extra turn, deity has a passive that allows it to get extra turn upon using apex skill

both are important for their classes

and both fill fast and are good skills

[austere sedge]

another thing i would like to see is instead of hypa cap (10 million) it should be summon sacrificed cap (10 million) only in horde dgns. it makes sense that they nerfed it because it was good in raids but this affected horde too

but this can by discussed after split damage bug fixes

if there is any content where i don't have complains from gsh it's pvp and raids

[austere sedge]

can you reach cap with it? because i can reach cap with magic build if I'm lucky

[tardy trail]

Then figure out a passive or something that gives us extra turns, but we won’t be getting something like that

[austere sedge]

i have a idea

i mentioned it previously too

lemme repeat

[tardy trail]

It’s just crazy that you even seriously considered getting avidity when it’s shadowmancy only

Doesn’t matter if we can equip thief equipment

That doesn’t have anything to do with it

[austere sedge]

not exactly avidity just something that can give additional turn avidity was example

i wasn't able to express myself clearly

'avidity like passive' should be inversely proportional to no of summon on field so if you have no summon you may get a extra turn
it still would be low so it's just helpful and not exploitable

tho I'm not big fan of it and want dodge instead

[unique shuttle]

Imo remove useless second chance and give summon protection back

[austere sedge]

it doesn't synergize

[unique shuttle]

What doesn't?

[fathom kettle]

Summon protection is alot better, but would't it be problem too since gsh usually got 2/less summons since hypa?

[unique shuttle]

Yes, it would. Yet it would still be better than second chance as it is now

[austere sedge]

summon protection

that's why i want dodge

inverse proportional to no. of summon on field

[unique shuttle]

Right, because second chance synergizes so well

[austere sedge]

yeah both are bad

since security increase with summon

and gsh sacrifice summon

gsh should have survivability when it's summon less or has less summon

[rapid panther]

I remember suggesting this as well during beta

[austere sedge]

most of my suggestion are your with little change it's not copying 🫣

[signal oasis]

I did extensive testing. And I was dead wrong but confirmation bias did me dirty with 60/100 sucess rate.

Still the fact that hybrid works attall on a essentially mage class blows my mind

[austere sedge]

maybe hybrid would've work when we had t. atk instead of t. dex

but because how less t. mag was procing ppl complained and it was replaced with t. dex

[oak moss]

Man I'm just waiting on the fixes rolling out lol

Also about hybrid, odie proposed it with giving t.att to the buff pool

But we thought it was a bit useless, given how you'd get attack buffs even on non-hybrid builds

[austere sedge]

most ppl didn't like that they were getting t. atk instead of t. mag

[austere sedge]

same

it will be a month since gsh Was reworked in 2 days

but still no updates

[fathom kettle]

"they don't really care about us"

[austere sedge]

you didn't have to say it

😔

[bronze relic]

me too lol just waiting for some changes

chain chance proccing is an alright feature i guess, but its not really that interesting. You can't sustain hypa anyways so in towers that would only slow u down. Especially in horde dungeons, if only riftlock get can some 2nd passive that would be able to cater only to gsh like auto summon. If riftlocks where to have 15-20% auto summon chance, then if u equip both you can just do hypa on dungeons reliably. And towers could be much more interesting too since 70% of the time you have an ammo to use.

(why i said 70 is because if we settle for 15% and then equip both riftlocks and then add gsh auto summon % we would get that.)

At least to some extent gsh would be able to carry out dungeon run with chain chance gear + a sustainable hypa

[fathom kettle]

Omega riftlock having 2nd passive called "15% auto summon(gsh only)" maybe? Something like new gear but instead only pve, only gsh

[bronze relic]

i mean thats only gonna work to gsh im assuming since we're the only one that has auto summon

its more like a boost

[austere sedge]

make sense

[bronze relic]

so it shouldnt give the ability to auto summon for other classes

[rapid panther]

just put quick/auto summon: 15%

[fathom kettle]

Isn't quick summon 25?

[bronze relic]

nah its gonna be hellish for gsa I dont wanna take 4 turns spawning mammoth 70% of the time

[rapid panther]

is it? don't remember, i never use it

[bronze relic]

it is

[rapid panther]

but you gonna get it for cele weapon too

[fathom kettle]

And 25 for auto summon would probably be too op

[rapid panther]

make it non stackable

[bronze relic]

celes weapon only stack the chances of you spawning the summon with less than one turn but it does not gurantee that itll proc every time

[austere sedge]

and who'll use arm of eos instead of feet

[rapid panther]

i never use quick summon and it shows lol

[bronze relic]

why give up the current quick summon passive?

when we can just add a new passive line that will only cater to gsh anyway?

[austere sedge]

yeah

[rapid panther]

you are adding a passive for only 1 class

it's as if you add critical poise to armor

only one class ca use it

[bronze relic]

i mean ideally i would like it to be 20 so we can have 80% auto summon chance but knowing this community 15% is the most ideal one to get push through

[austere sedge]

i can't argue with that

but things have to start somewhere

classes like heretic have manaflask boost and deity has apex boost

[rapid panther]

but that's why i'm saying to tie it with quick summon, for gsh is useless

[bronze relic]

either we add a new line or just create a new accessory when new rift event comes out, anyways thats just an idea to make hypa sustainable. It shouldnt be necessarily on riftlocks anyway, if its possible to create a new accessory for it then much better.

[austere sedge]

colletral, pet protection/ai and avidity

[rapid panther]

but that's used for 3 classes not 1

and full class tree

[austere sedge]

ppl here might me against buff on quick summon

[rapid panther]

auto summon is only sh and gsh

[austere sedge]

since some of us keep requesting for cr buff

[austere sedge]

uh can't argue with that again

some things have to start somewhere XD

[rapid panther]

not against it, just i really doubt we gonna get an accessory or armor piece that can be used by summoner hydrus pnly

[fathom kettle]

This, instead putting it on omega riftlock, you create alpha riftlock with just tjat

[austere sedge]

i can understand your point

[bronze relic]

yeah anyways thats just an idea to make it sustainable, i dont really expect things are gonna change that soon

[rapid panther]

ayo, hypa gives again as many ward turn as summons you sacrifice

[void scaffold]

No, it gives as many ward turns as you hit opponents with it

[fathom kettle]

Not sacrificed but enemies hit, unless they adding smth new. That what description of spell says

[rapid panther]

Ohhh didn't read the description I was just using it, tbf I'm ok with it

[fierce crag]

I am almost sure the description (and maybe the effect, too?) was changed a few days ago

[floral jewel]

A month later and we still have invisible summons in raids?

I try to look at the action queue but that's hit and miss too

[rapid panther]

It's probably game latency, darkrift dungeon had the same problem where you could kill acolytes before they showed up

[oak moss]

yeah but it really does make playing hydrus really annoying in raids

hopefully its on the roadmap for fixing

[oak moss]

this is cool for dungeons, but would getting a ward turn per summon be that op also

its undoubtedly a buff to raiding, but even In dungeons i have had situations where my aoe leaves 1 strong zerk alive

and then i of course hypa it, only to get a single ward turn back and then need to WoO again

[void scaffold]

As being great in raids was somewhat of a byproduct i guess it was a way to soley buff dungeons

[oak moss]

yeah i guess, but we still dont have the split damage fix i think?

maybe it wont be as bad when that rolls out and we can focus more on building solely for hypa in dungeons

but even then more issues arise with CR being too rng to properly be able to dungeon with it only

but thats doomposting i guess

[austere sedge]

without any bug fix or info. on split damage we can't even say anything on horde 👀

[austere sedge]

maybe cr boosting gear can help

i prefer robe or boot

tho nekromancer staff like weapon with some pact bonus and cr rate boost could be good too

[oak moss]

yeah it would be much appreciated for helping out horde

dont get me wrong im not having a bad time with just using BL2 though

i still occasionally die which is a bit insane coming from deity where i could 1button everything, but everything has its strenghts and weaknesses its just that hypa deals sooo little damage in dungeons and really insane dmg in raids

[austere sedge]

what's the point of hypa if you just use bl2👀

hypa cr rate needs to be buff considering how it consume ammo

[oak moss]

i need hypa to bl2, but using it feels so trash using hypa

maybe thats because bl2 is crit-based and hypa cant crit, but idk let me know if you guys found a horde build thats decent on hydrus

despair might be better since you can just go raw magic maybe then hypa will be able to kill

[austere sedge]

maybe 10 million damage cap on enemy hit instead of current (hypa cap) and beta (per summon sacrificed cap)

it'll stay same in raids

but will have more damage potential in horde

[oak moss]

not gonna lie man i dont understand what youre trying to say

what 10mil damage im talking about dungeons

[bronze relic]

just cus it's a fact doesn't mean it's a doompost, it is what it is your merely stating the truth doe

[austere sedge]

in beta you can hit 30 million damage if you sacrifice 3 summon and in live hypa max damage is 10 million

and it splits in horde

but if hypa does 10 million max damage on any enemy hit regardless of summon sacrificed

for example your max damage on horde will be 10 million to all enemies

and in raids only raid boss will be hit with 10 million