GSH Rework - H2 Balance & Mechanics

[bronze relic]

thats why for 5 months there's nothing much that came out of gsh other than it being a raider

other than that its just nothing

sure there are fun builds out there but truth be told, even if they felt good its not practical to be clearing dgns with that kind of set up

[dusky ginkgo]

Can I get your definitions of:

-Mid Anguish
-High Anguish
-Not practical
-Sufficient CR Rate

Again, not judging, just asking questions

[bronze relic]

mid: 20-35

high: 35+

not practical: a full hypa set up with chain chance build ( doesnt support the need to be able to spam hypa at a acceptable or balanced rate) which results to not being able to clear a dungeon or take much longer time to clear a dungeon. Examples that can be looked at can be found from @unique shuttle (sorry for the ping).

Sufficient cr rate: 60 or 65 this couldve achieved via amity, another accessory, buffs from soul mentioned by the player here (forgot his name) while increasing the cr rate for gsh horde capability it can't be denied that the raiding aspect of gsh will also get buffed due to this new cr rate.

[dusky ginkgo]

Got it, thanks for the definitions

[bronze relic]

reason why chain chance isnt working + not much of a practical set up is because the low cr rate that why even in towers its not enough to be viable u lose ammunition so fast and its not even guranteed to hit 3 immediately

increasing cr rate might open some doors

and bringing back t. all +++ could just make it viable enough for dungeons to not lack any damage even if u hit 3 enemies or more, cus u are not worried much about the dmg split

[bronze relic]

dmg split is ass, and no sustainable ward turn means insta death

mel 30 run

got lucky with a lugus proc early on so i was able to breathe for a bit then around floor 17 i died cus bl2 is already failing and so is hydrus pact because it can't penetrate thorugh 2 or more opponent

if hypa could provide like 2 ward turns that way it is somehow sustainable so you wont feel naked, u can't use beastfelled shoes on this class so that option is useless

[rose path]

Ohhhhhhh youre unholy geo

Yeah good try, but you will have better luck doing dungeons with gsa

Gsa needs 50% autosummon chance, 15% double summon chance and mystical feather type of passive tied to your + souls % instead of 2nd chance

[bronze relic]

yep

[bronze relic]

yeah i gave bl2 a try again to see where itll take me, as much as possible i made the anguish paths bl2 focused

but i wont amount to this bad boy

but bl2 gsh is pretty nice at tor 22, not that bad but gsa is better in both dungeons and towers

[austere sedge]

Hopefully new stuff for gsh

in apollyon

[bronze relic]

even if it does, this problem or issue is a chokepoint within the class itself

[austere sedge]

eh you still hope for direct change

[bronze relic]

i tried doing a full hypa run not fun, i was getting molested and the ward turn is my problem

[austere sedge]

now our best bet is cr gear and other gear stuff for gsh

no point in hoping for direct changes

[bronze relic]

regardless even if its a bl2 or full hypa run at mel 30, its just impossible to finish a dgn for me

[austere sedge]

it's been around 5 months

ig

Since the same issues have been complained about.

[austere sedge]

ofc it is because of split and cr

no t. all +++ too

[bronze relic]

to this class i think they should add a new summon with a lunarstrike skill and make sure it only has 2 skills so itll spam that a L O T😋

[bronze relic]

🤷‍♂️

[bronze relic]

a solution for the ward turn upkeep would be whatever amount of enemies u hit with ur hypa u gain that much ward turn just like in beta before with the "bugged hypa"

that way you're not totally naked

only 1 woo and then sustain that ward turn via hypa, ive tried everything i can, dof is the most safest approach. Can't go oracle too much dmg but if u miss and not get an extra turn it's a gamble

[rose path]

A good solution to survivability for gsh would be replacing 2nd chance with Elysian Feather (souls +% = +dodge rate, at full souls stacks = up to 60% dodge rate).

[bronze relic]

ive been trying to suggest that too cus most of the time your summons are dead so the 2nd chance would barely proc

i think the way for us to get a better chance is that if we have an increased cr rate from 40% to something like 60 or 70% cus by then summons would just pop up with u needing to summon them

but that would make hypa continuous and almost a pure spam at 70% cr rate

we'd be on deity 2000s level typa shit

[bronze relic]

but this is only an option for keeping the 2nd chance, but if we're gonna replace it with something else dodge rate aint too bad because i doubt odie would raise it to 70%

[rose path]

Irk? That would pair pretty damn well with t.dex from hypa. But as odie said, there are no class balancing things foreseen for this year

[bronze relic]

and if possible perhaps an increase to the chances of the buffs proccing, def/res are not bad for me but sometimes i could really use the damage instead of t. def & t. res +++

[bronze relic]

as soon as u get 100% soul buff ofc

but a full hypa run would still not be good enough, but at least bl2 and qatvanga are gonna be much better on it

[rose path]

I think that already wanders into OP territory xD besides everyone hates gsa, if u suggest this its gonna get downvoted by the usual gs hating downvoters

[bronze relic]

and then there's deity doing everything

[rose path]

Reraise + 2nd chance on deity? Oh no thats not a problem. Purpleline + auto t.all and reraise and sharpen III oh no thats not problematic.

But hey, screw gsa and gsh🤣

[bronze relic]

imagine bargaining so hard for a lil bit of performance upgrade on gsh just lil bit so it could perform well on horde and then ull see deity pulling up with this shit

strong horde + raid?

gah lee

and pvp too lol conq so fun, multiple 2nd chances

and then there's gsh

[rose path]

Gsh isnt even that strong in raiding compared to other classes.

[bronze relic]

https://klipy.com/gifs/spongebob-stink-7--k01KQSD000V725KF9JFJWT0M5BN

[rose path]

I think the only good realistic solution - Elysian Feather with 60% dodge.

[rose path]

Lmfao

[bronze relic]

yeah i mean so far its better than bp thats for sure, no massive al investmet just proper gears and u would be set. But beo stasis and 2000s from deity? yeah cooked

[rose path]

Cus gsh can equip thief equipment, and that would give gsh that thief flavor

[bronze relic]

true

like we're more similar to heretic c, that one has a dodge passive afaik

[rose path]

I guess we have to brainwash some ORN members into playing gs

[bronze relic]

thats probably the answer

[rose path]

Right?

[bronze relic]

kaine and john are retired

we would see them again eventually

we gotta keep coping cus its gonna happen eventually like 10 years from now

[rose path]

#💡│suggestions message

Upvote this, if u want ofc

[rose path]

But i can already see this suggestion with 2 upvotes (me and you) and 19 downvotes from all the gsa haters and obviously me haters

[austere sedge]

3

i always support dodge on gsh

[austere sedge]

(probably have been yapping about it from months)

[bronze relic]

gave it an upvote

[bronze relic]

u should probably post the suggestion too in aethric dc

[austere sedge]

i also want avidity but eh you all gonna say it's gsh not gsc

[rose path]

If u forgot, im banned there

[austere sedge]

so i will just mention it once

[rose path]

Hell no

[bronze relic]

dam i didnt know

[austere sedge]

then shut up

[rose path]

[austere sedge]

lmao

[rose path]

Avidity on gsh is just stupid

[austere sedge]

stupid cool

watch infinite hypa

[bronze relic]

we got dex on our t. buffs anways so why not just put dodge on that btch and make it more sweeter and synergized

[austere sedge]

with auto summon and avidity

eheheehe

[rose path]

Ok guys make your bets on how many downvotes my suggestion is gonna get xD

I predict that at least 7 or 8

[bronze relic]

cus we can surely fix 2nd chance but that would mean buffing cr rate which is not gonna happen

[austere sedge]

15

[bronze relic]

and now the waiting game

[austere sedge]

because gs haters gonna rise very quickly

[tardy trail]

Meh, wouldn't pair at all, since they're separate things. Feather is just a flat dodge rate that overrides dex.

But yeah, agree that it'd be nice to have something like that, over SC

[austere sedge]

i thought that dodge is affected by dex!?

[tardy trail]

Yeah, dex helps dodge, but the feather passives don't have anything to do with dex, it's just a flat dodge rate

And once it's active it overrides dex

[austere sedge]

hmm i see

[tardy trail]

@rose path Why the cross, care about explaining to us how the feather passives work?

[bronze relic]

damn 12 down votes already

[rose path]

Told ya

[bronze relic]

yeah its never gonna thrive bro hahahaha

[rose path]

The usual downvoters be downvoting

Suggest a deity buff : ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅

Suggest gs buff: ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ ❌

[bronze relic]

holy dih riding

[austere sedge]

hmm what if we get an adorn with some pact malus but cr rate bonus 👀

[austere sedge]

@rose path how about giving a input for why this statement is wrong or it's a bad idea?

[rose path]

Because i dont like this

What does pact have to do with crit rate?

[austere sedge]

i expected a good explanation for why it's bad but uh that's fine too

[austere sedge]

I'm talking about cr (Charon ritual)

aka auto summon

[rose path]

Oooh, yeah then yes. But again - any buff to summoners is not welcome on this server

[austere sedge]

it's not a buff but a trade

so we can use hypa more consistently without very high damage in raids

[rose path]

No its a buff. - pact % can be balanced out by mag

[rose path]

Besides t.mag+/++/+++ will remove all the -pact% by simply multiplying your mag

U wont even feel the negative pact thing

[austere sedge]

adorns wouldn't give mag and losing pact for cr looks like balanced trade for me

[austere sedge]

maybe that's True

i need more input

my fellow gsh haters and complainer please give me input

[rose path]

First of all i think lvling up to 250 will help and playing actual end game content will also 🙂

[austere sedge]

nah I'm not interested

[rose path]

Thats a friendly tip bro!

[austere sedge]

t11 means i quit

i will try to stay 249 as long as i can

[austere sedge]

anything interesting for gsh 👀

[austere sedge]

Hopefully something for gsh in ornaversary

[signal oasis]

Not 2 ward turns but ward turns on hit and possibly additional per kill. Also 10% ward absorption

[signal oasis]

I dont think so >-> well have to wait till piñatas open up

[signal oasis]

Tbh hydrus passive should be true charge passive and be like maybe what like 300 summons sacrificed to maintain hydrus uptime for the next 72 hours. Meaning at the start of dungeons/raids and EVERY tower encounter ect. We maintain our actual base stats of our class.

This is a fair take both makes hypact a viable horde strat aswell as ect due to us not having to build stacks and make our gameplay loop stale.

[signal oasis]

Since the ghost summons are not going to be fixed can we just make them a feature?

Grand Summoner Hydrus:  summoning is less effective summons are weaker but pacts are much much stronger.  Can harness residual energy from fallen summons to channel pacts without them```

How this looks in practice.  Wev sacrificed summons or summons die, when we summon or CR summons invisible summons the game stores them but they are not on the feald and do not count towards total summon count. But are stored as stacks similar to how apex & flasks function. Except while it has any charge its amount of charge = 1 summon "sacrificed"

5 nodes
Each "ghost summon" node being equivelant to 1  summon. 
Meaning at full charges you can cast 2 hydrus pacts when no summons are cast.
1 at full power, and 1 at if you had sacrificed 2 summons. 

With blood spells each node is treated as a medium HP summons(around 10-20khp per node)  and the total bar drains aswell along with summons who's hp are being sacrificed.  

With efficacy that it can be used to cast 2 BP III
3 BP II or 4 BP 1 respectively.

Essentially make the game recognize oh its set to true but not happening ok it didnt happen, and stores a charge instead up to the amount of summons that have died.

This will make it a true "player damage class" you can even remove the pact aspect and make it so all spells and skill drain the ghost node and deal additional damage as if it were a pact. But I feel like that route would be a slippery slope. Either way what do you guys think?

[final wagon]

What do you mean here with ghost summon, the fact that we do sometimes have summons but we can't see them?

[final wagon]

For them (i only use gsh for raids) after some thousands raids you get a feeling of when you do have them or not so you basically click when you do

[austere sedge]

bufr gsh

nevermind

rework gsh

[snow swift]

delete gsh*

[tardy trail]

But you'll be left with nothing to HoC to

[austere sedge]

delete gsh and give gsc

grand summoner Covirus (combination of coolest classes mage, summoner and thief)

[fathom kettle]

How about we just delete hoa and orna

[hardy flax]

the people (mostly this guy) told me to hop on this server and make my case, so here goes:

rework sh/gsh into a summon class

that is, a class that is a summon

attempting to summon something turns you into that monster for a set number of turns, with gsh having more turns than sh

while transformed, your base stats are increased by some portion of the monster's stats, and you also benefit from your own summon stat bonuses

the catch here is that you also lose control of your character for the full duration of the transformation, making you powerful but potentially unreliable if you became, i dunno, anubis or something

if my two cents are unwanted, i blame @austere sedge and @ruby raven

[ruby raven]

[austere sedge]

this guy 💔

[austere sedge]

don't worry I'm here to be blamed (I'm best at it)

[austere sedge]

increase damage but spell confused status if transformation is for too long

reason for confuse is because it will make spell selection random (hence kind of berserk state)

[hardy flax]

the idea is that it isn't just a stat buff; you swap out your entire moveset for the summon's

[austere sedge]

and transformation could have it's own hp (so if you die while transformed you return to original form with some lost hp and some debuff)

[hardy flax]

i mean, maybe?

[austere sedge]

I'm saying if transformation duration is extended then more damage and confusion

[hardy flax]

honestly, your idea might work, too

[austere sedge]

like losing sanity

and becoming monster itself

[hardy flax]

instead of hydrus pact, you get some other spell that undoes the transformation

intitial transform: stat buff based on monster, retain original moveset, can cancel transform if you have the spell equipped that does that, taking lethal damage forces an untransform and leaves you at 1hp

staying transformed too long: further stat boost, but you get a status effect that can't be blocked that has a high chance of making you pick the wrong skill/spell/etc

[ruby raven]

Transform into failed phoniex warrior, apply sigil, then transform into failed phoniex mage, phoniex ritual

[hardy flax]

hear me out: we merge the two ideas so that clicking the attack command instead makes you use a random skill or spell the monster has

[final wagon]

Guys I don't think there is any intention to rework the class given it is seeing decent usage and there are other priorities for other classes above us

We can at most hope for some little tinkering if we propose something easy to enact

[austere sedge]

nothing is going to be changed in gsh now

it's just general gsh thread now

all we can do is hope

and give our own suggestions

whether it's rework or adjustment

[hardy flax]

the current toolkit of gsh is certainly something

it's just a little unfortunate that it's kind of a crutch class

it gives summoner mains a powerful summon and the ability to cut down most raids without as much hassle as early to mid t10 gs/gsa

but then it's kinda just... left in the dust later on?

in high agony, you'd sooner be using gs blood pact

and obviously gsa is strong in endless

[austere sedge]

it can only do raids (that doesn't have aoe) and still struggles against some super raids that can one shot it

like king lyncus

[calm wyvern]

Anyone here play mahjong?

[bronze acorn]

i keep eating the tiles :(

[calm wyvern]

The ones with the red dragons are delicious

[earnest mesa]

Second chance for GSH is pretty bad. Sure you live but with no summons whats the point of being alive. You just die next turn.

[austere sedge]

yeah

many many ppl complained about it

including me

[twilit osprey]

Think it should just kill one summon instead, or two

[austere sedge]

too good to be True

another issue with it is that second chance scales with no. of summon on field and gsh hypa causes it to have less summon

hence second chance isn't consistent too

[twilit osprey]

To be honest i view it as more of a raid spec since its much more useful there

[earnest mesa]

It would be decent at pvp if second chance was better

[tardy trail]

It would be better than it is rn, but I don’t think it’ll ever be decent, since it’d just be a temu heretic

No SF, no fat blueline after a SC proc and the stats aren’t anything crazy, plus the AI is trash at using pacts and if it starts summoning you’re done for

Mostly talking def here, it’s already fairly good at the offense, despite being a big gamble

[austere sedge]

although offense is good it needs more turn than other classes

because it has to get ammo too

[dusky ginkgo]

I’d be fairly happy just losing our SC at this point

The alternative would be any number of summons is still 50% chance or whatever the normal SC proc of other classes is

Or just swapping the SC to a PvP-Functioning Summon Block since your summon dying still powers you up a tiny bit

[austere sedge]

summon block sounds sweet

but i hope any survivability passive gsh has scales inversely with no. of summon on field

@dusky ginkgo btw what devs think about feedback on current second chance?

[dusky ginkgo]

I am not one of the devs so I don't know haha. I think like Ancient said, largely focused on other things

So if we can get some general consensus on one or two tweaks to put forward, that's where I can present that consensus to ORN

[austere sedge]

i thought you'll have idea because you are a orn 🫣

but i understand

[dusky ginkgo]

Sometimes we are privy to that stuff

The current focus, my understanding, is on event reworks and updates and new events more than class related stuff

But that isn't to say we can't get something suggested and/or do a poll or two here and see what the GS/H community players settle on

[austere sedge]

it would be really nice if community is alive and we could get new feedback (but considering how nothing has changed after so many complaints and suggestions it makes sense for why this thread is almost dead)

and it makes sense why it didn't get changes (either lack of support for particular suggestion and devs are working on events)

[ruby raven]

I don't have a strong opinion truely for GSH, if you compare it to other classes that opinion gets worse XD

Gsh is a solid early T10 raider, something that wasn't really agreed on, I think the majority asked for it to be good in horde content, which it's very mediocre/bad in due to how hypa works, temu hera with no. real ways to compare to one, you can't even debate the meat shields aspect cause they hardly block for you, If anything your more of a tank then your meatshields and would rather take the hit then lose a ammo slot 🤣 ( aoe disables your ability to do dmg just about )

T9 hydrus due to how it has the same passives as its T10 variant just about is a monster, and it's one of the best T9 classes just about, Aoe aspects are super amazing but no T9 classes have insane passives like T9 hydrus lmao

So there's the very underwhelming T10 gsh, and the very strong T9 hydrus but since it's T9 and many people don't explore GS celestial due to them being naturally worse GS for a very long time ( summoner auriga still being just worse then base, no passives to change that fact )

T10 gsh is still not a very popular choice outside of raiding, and before the rework GSH was better at dungeons then it is now ironically XD, alongside all these issues there's the underlying problem with GSH

Every class and celestial share aspects they value equally, gilga with collat, deity with apex, hera with mana flask, beo with follower stats/act,

GSH values nothing in tact to the GS lines, summon stats don't make much of a difference, pact% is only valued for GS/GSH but different usage on that note GSH needs specific gears which don't benefit any other GS line, final decree/kheper summons is a fine example, those summons and weapon are only good for GSH, base GS can't make any usage of that weapon to a viable degree due to valuing high HP summons, and GSH valuing horde summons hp doesn't matter for its dmg output, so new summoner event gear pieces now have to cater to either GS/GSA, or GSH, and not all 3 cause they no longer share a common trait at which they value

So summary gsh is too different from gs/gsa that it's not just a simple different way to play the classline, it just feels like playing a worse hera XD, but instead of a plethora of builds and different spells you can utilize, your stuck with 1 pact and very stagnant/clunky gameplay, and overall I feel like it would need to share a common stat that can be valued across all 3 class lines pretty equally at least so we aren't seeing different gears focused on one or the other 2

That's all my opinions and last thoughts on GSH as a whole^^^

I'm okay with the focus of event content as a whole and am fine with how GSH is atm, as I was before the rework, just going forward I do hope event gears don't just cater to one or the other 2 GS classes, and try to meet a middle ground of some sort, whether that slapping pact% and summon stats on an item, or making horde summons have more valuable aspects then being hypa fodder that can benefit 2 of the 3 classes, it can be pretty frustrating for both parties of GS

[dusky ginkgo]

To me-

The biggest pain point is that the second chance is oof. Even when it does go off, I find myself often wishing it hadn't because unless I build to not pact, I'm left with few options.

Second paint point is of course AoE raids/enemies. Destructible ammo is a cool malus imo but I'd like a bit more to work with to get around it

Third pain point is the inability to proc status effects via pacts. I know there's a tradeoff with not being counter-attackable or refract/reflect-able but... gimme Bloodpacts that Stun, Freeze and Blind someone if I build for it 😁

Fourth pain point being the remaining issue with phantom/invisible summons

However, as this thread is quite old, do we have any issues with letting it die and moving the discussions to the summoner chat here or OL GS chat so we can get more people involved?

[austere sedge]

considering how there isn't much gsh crowd left if we let it die i don't think there will be any discussion left for gsh

[austere sedge]

i see issues in cr too because it's too inconsistent sometimes it feels like it's enough but if opponent has room to counter attack then I'm left with no summon to attack

and pact amity is underwhelming

hypa should be better in horde (since it's semi aoe)

rn gsh can only utilize single pact when it's supposed to be a pact class

it should be able to work with different pacts

(honestly i don't understand why hypa cost mana when you already sacrifice summon for it)

[austere sedge]

tho this part is bit of nonsense

[final wagon]

The second chance is decent in raids and given raids are the only thing to do with gsh...

[dusky ginkgo]

So we should leave it as is?

Or would pushing for any number of summons out is 40-50% SC chance (don’t quote me on that percent I don’t actually remember at the moment) similar to Deity or Heretic or any other non BeoH class with the effect?

Or would pushing for it to just be summons can block more often be better?

Or?

[wind osprey]

Just buff summob protection and thats fine

Theres way too much stuff to counter summon block atm so that being stronger would not be too powerfull

[austere sedge]

i got cool but unnecessary idea
since gsh is like a nekromancer it lacks one of core of nekromancy that is corpse explosion (no hypa doesn't work like corpse explosion)
so what if our summon exploded after dying (obviously not through pact), if opponent kill our summon then boom, if second chance proc then bigger boom. now since it's explosion it shouldn't be single target so i think it should deal damage to to opponent and chain chance should work on it

[austere sedge]

and summon block suits gsa more 👀

warrior-shield - block

[austere sedge]

if we get more summon protection when less or no summon and less protection when we have field full of summon I'm in support

[dusky ginkgo]

Fair but counterpoint - all 3 beos can effectively utilize pet block

2 of 3 Summoners have Summon block but can't really use it and the 3rd that needs it the most doesn't 🥹

Of course apples to oranges as different classes

[dusky ginkgo]

I feel like this statement as a blanket statement scares me for some guy who plays Beo with summoning pets and could stack 2 kinds of block 🫣

[undone hazel]

As much as I love cool new things, I think GSH is in a great place since the changes.
GSH is the king of mid-Ang raiding with very low ALs, and has the best turn 1 damage in PvP with low ALs

I’m AL15 GSH and raiding at ang15, and hitting for well over 300k (wo double cast) turn 1 even against opponents with over 100 AL advantage.

[wind osprey]

Stick to gs

https://tenor.com/view/forget-forgot-willsmith-menin-black-gif-5390529

[dusky ginkgo]

This is refining a pain point or two not taking anything away 😁

I agree with GSH being very fun

[undone hazel]

My fear would be asking for other stuff will lead to nerfs in other areas 😂

I wanna try to do GSH endless at some point tbh, I feel like it would perform almost as well as Dara with the same setup lol

[dusky ginkgo]

I hit 600 pretty comfortably doing this

[undone hazel]

What gear?

[dusky ginkgo]

Hence refining heh

Having a more functional Second Chance or Summon Block or whatever equivalent isn’t going to break anything

And while hitting for big numbers is great on GSH, against a well setup defense, the odds are not in your favor for big damage to be enough

(I.E stacking Parapet, Second Chance, Pet Block, Ward, etc)

[undone hazel]

I figure it’d work exactly the same as Dara farm gear, but maybe with dynasty shoes for dc

[dusky ginkgo]

Full farm

[sinful light]

How about instead of reviving you at 1 HP , you get a % of all the remaining summons' HP as ward?

As GSH your summons won't be as tanky, it incentivizes using higher tiered summons, encourages equipping ward related stuff, and synergizes with Hypact giving you ward turns?

Oh and yeah all the summons still die but you get a % of their remaining HP as ward

[dusky ginkgo]

That seems like you could get a silly amount of ward

Or you’re limited to very specific builds

And Gilgas would throw a fit

[ruby raven]

You'd never use high HP summons due to the tendency of always needing a horde

You'd be always taking less ammo because of it

[dusky ginkgo]

That too

[sinful light]

Silly ward and no mag, unless you have ALs which can be shackled down for balance?

[ruby raven]

I don't mean to debunk your ideas though sorry XD

[sinful light]

That can also be a balancing point

[sinful light]

All good, part of brainstorming haha

[dusky ginkgo]

Adding more of a mechanic than I think we would hit as well

I think the primary 2 things likely (albeit maybe not)

Would be:

1. Any number of summons is full Second Chance

2. Change second chance mechanic to summon block chance

Or if there was some world we could get Plague’s OG idea of something with dodge chance that is cool but I don’t see a good way to do it shy of maybe:

5 summons out of = 0% bonus dodge

0 summons out of= 50% dodge chance

Similar to a mystic feather ish

But if we look at the history of such changes, simpler is usually best to request and then if we get more than/or the actual specifics can be left up to the man himself

[wind osprey]

I support any kind summon prot buff

[ruby raven]

I have no strong opinions on GSH, I've said my piece XD

What do I feel like GSH needs? Another rework

Jkjk, though I would like GSH to be good with BP better then base GS, but it's auto summon is quite against that

So what would I propose and how balance would it be?

Auto summon should summon summons at base summon stats not half

Remove second chance passive, replace it with high summon protection chance ( 35-40% )

And finally I'd probably add ascended summons to it

How balanced would it be? Al 100+ not very balanced XD, below AL 100, it wouldn't get outclassed by base GS at least unless we talk 0 ang ultima set ups

[sinful light]

Odie saying he wants to balance dmg vs survivability (or something along those lines, said sometime during CS nerf I think) made me think

GSH can go meta glass cannon route (which sacrifices SC for passive)
OR tanky route - equipping ward gear that usually competes with mag gear, reducing dmg for survivability, and being unable to wear warrior gear makes it more challenging. It can also synergize somewhat with HyPact giving ward turns

Just 2 cents

[ruby raven]

I'd probably argue that GSH is definitely the tankier GS line

GSA is the glass cannon line despite having access to warrior gear lmao

Base GS is glass cannon

So I wouldn't be against GSH being the tanky line, however that's what it was before it's rework and fell so behind in dmg and versatility that it became the most unused celestial XD, so there's a lot to factor

[sinful light]

No. of summons should also scale with second chance to proc, but shouldn't be 100%. Kinda like reraise being stuck at 80% chance

Summon block mechanic could probably be changed so instead of you dying, the highest HP summon insta dies. Or maybe to make it more balanced, whatever dmg you took, your summons take it in your place starting from highest HP to lowest, so if you ate a 100k hit from amammon, AD might take 37k, GP 35k, and you take the remaining 28k of dmg

[sinful light]

Yeah.. tbuffs also help a lot with that

[dusky ginkgo]

Then we are stuck with what we have if we are glued to number of summons and second chance

10% per summon up to 50% Second Chance is what we have

Issue is it leaves you unable to do anything so you might as well have died

10% to block per summon up to 50% total would only eat one summon so maybe you could actually do something - but you’d also need it to be like “if lethal damage would occur, may block” or it would just eat all of our ammo slowly

Or just any number of summons is 50% second chance* (oops)

What you suggest sounds interesting (though I don’t think I’d ever use it) but I think we are long since passed the point of a change to that degree

Hence trying to refine what is there

Because of being left with nothing is one of the reasons I’d personally be fine just losing the second chance entirely

Which is sad but it is what it is

[sinful light]

Oh snap you're right on point 1. For some reason I thought a 100% SC on even 1 summon meant that as long as you had 1 summon out, you'd technically be immortal clarified ✅

Well yeah. Totally agree with you on the current state of SC of GSH which doesn't really add any counterplay potential.

If we're to refine the current iteration, where summons die and we survive with 1 HP, then some thoughts:
A. We lose all summons, SC with 1 HP (the same as is) BUT we get all the possible tbuffs we could using HyPact. The defensive buffs might be enough for us to 0 the turn, while the offensive buffs could be enough to finish the turn (if there's another floor, it might be enough to clear the SC one and then have RNG auto summon for the next floor) variant b would be to be healed to full HP (kinda like an auto Life Pact II)

B. As is, BUT Enemies get afflicted with t.att---/t.mag---/t.all--- giving GSH a counterplay of surviving providef we have enough def/res

In PvP, option A might be a little too OP, kinda like how a 2nd chance RS can hit harder being redlined while having more dodge whereas option B is avoidable by wearing arch gizmo or gadget or something

[undone hazel]

Just what we need, more damage 🤠

[austere sedge]

sweet

[austere sedge]

gsh is lot better than it was before in low anguish but it still has some flaws and we are just trying to cover these flaws so gsh doesn't end up to be just a low anguish raider

[undone hazel]

What do you consider low anguish? I’m doing ang15 super raids without too much trouble, at only AL15. That feels crazy strong imo lol

The AL to Ang on raids for GSH is better than any other class by far, except maybe beoA ASG at very low anguish

[austere sedge]

i believe low ang is till ang 8

[austere sedge]

maybe good in mid anguish raiding too

but i wish for gsh to be more than raiding class

[undone hazel]

It’s also good at endless 🤷

[austere sedge]

i honestly don't believe it

[dusky ginkgo]

You can choose not to believe it but you can pretty casually hit 500-600 in full farming gear just pressing Hydrus Pact

Now is that GSA/GS full power levels? of course not

But is that Deity Ara levels? Yep, 100%

Speaking from experience having done it

More damage is definitely not what we need but even if the new adorns get turned down somehow, having the option of using a Chimera Staff or Arisen Imagination or even Beguiled Quarterstaff for extra Pact Damage sounds like some neat flexibility.

And of course the Final Decree becoming a true AoE raid option

[austere sedge]

wow

Still I'm greedy

it's not like I'm Mr(any virtue)

[dusky ginkgo]

Nothing wrong with running normal GS endless - sometimes it's nice to just do a quick and dirty HyPact spam though

[undone hazel]

Can you actually go all the way with just Hypa? I figured play it like Dara, seals build with Hypa in the pocket for spooky zerks

[dusky ginkgo]

I spammed HyPact with Tidal Stormflare as a backup if I needed it 🤷‍♂️ But basically just clicked Hydrus Pact - got to like 550 or so last time I did it

[undone hazel]

That’s wild, I figured autosummon wouldn’t proc often enough and you’d just take an RS to the chin

Or accidentally bleed out to your own dots

[dusky ginkgo]

Fun fact -

If your screen clears of summons, you start with your two autosummons next floor

So if you take Summon Khepirs and Summon Dead

Any time Summon Khepirs procs, you'll always have at least 2 summons at the start of next floor

Any time summon dead procs, you might start the next floor with only 1

Anytime you have 4 summons at the start of the next floor, Hydrus Pact will put you to 1 which means unless you get an auto summon, you'll only have 1 summon out for the next floor

But should we ever get a second always more than 1 summon summon (like summon khepirs) you'd be able to theoretically never have only 1 summon at the start of the next floor unless you miss and an enemy kills one putting you from 5 to 4

Hydrus Pact with 1, 2, 3 or 5 summons out means you should always have 2 or more summons for the next floor

[undone hazel]

That is a fun fact, and absolutely game changing lol

I might try to swap Dara for GSH on my endless runs

Are you doing dc or is hypa damage enough to sustain?

[dusky ginkgo]

I didn’t try DC but no reason you can’t try and get it up with Gods of Aaru or something

[undone hazel]

That’s what I figured. Dynasty shoes and sequencer, but the low buff time on it maybe not worth the trouble esp if you have enough damage without

Actually, could you show me your GSH endless farming set? Wanna see what you’re rocking for adorns 😂

[dusky ginkgo]

Orichalcum Mortars

[undone hazel]

Qstaffs better than terrors for some reason? And those mp regen adorns on the others?

[undone hazel]

How are you keeping your hp up with only two rubies?

[austere sedge]

it's more than enough (i use single ruby)

[undone hazel]

I’m running 4 of them and my hp is sitting at 1

[austere sedge]

just get lucky duh

[undone hazel]

Are you not doing all 3 zerk buffs?

[austere sedge]

there is no fun if you don't gamble your life

[austere sedge]

it doesn't matter

[undone hazel]

I mean fair

[austere sedge]

ruby no. doesn't increase syphon chance

it only increases heal

iirc

and hypa damage is good enough to keep you at full hp

[undone hazel]

I mean the zerk buffs that dot you

[austere sedge]

i was referencing jjk 😶‍🌫️

[austere sedge]

i already told you why more ruby is just more amount of heal not more chance to heal

[undone hazel]

Oh

Yeah I got that part

[austere sedge]

.

so you usually don't need many ruby

[undone hazel]

You’ll never heal to full hp with the dots

Unless there’s some trick I’m missing

[austere sedge]

eh just get my point don't pin point 🫵

[undone hazel]

lol

Still, it’s supposed to be 50% chance? Feels way lower

[austere sedge]

i donno exact chance

[undone hazel]

Will 1 ashen 1 regular ruby give more chance? 😂

[austere sedge]

yk there is a possibility that there is some bug that does increase the chance

and those old players are gatekeeping it

[undone hazel]

Lmao ima try it

Life siphon on weapon from anguish is definitely a separate chance though right?

[austere sedge]

yup

i believe

[undone hazel]

There’s the answer

I need to reroll my terrors

Nah, doesn’t seem to be a separate chance lol

[austere sedge]

ppl with good meth tell me is the pact adorn worth it

or not