#Status Effects & Non-damaging Spells

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umbral helm
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Status effects - love them or hate them - are an integral part to any RPG game. Without them, strategy is unnecessary. With the upcoming changes to Steadfast availability, I think a discussion is warranted. Can we make status effects a more welcome mechanic?

  • Damaging effects are often completely ignored through passive healing/overhealing.

  • Is Panacea too good?

  • As mentioned in another thread, because debuffs fade at the end of a turn, your opponent can do things like stun-lock you. If debuffs had a chance to fade at the beginning of the turn, you could at least take one turn before getting stunned again.

  • Also mentioned in another thread, multiple immobilizing effects can be oppressive. Should they stack the way they do? Should rates be adjusted?

  • Preventing statuses entirely with SF or similar effects enables mindless grinding "Quality of Life", but many players feel overly locked down without debuff resistance (due to stacking immobilizing effects?). What's a reasonable middle ground?

  • Should SF apply equally to all effects?

  • Immunity gear creates a guessing game, which can be problematic for squishy classes that rely more on turn skips. Additionally, there is no way to counter it. Should it give 100% immunity? Should it be counter-able? Should your immunity be displayed as a buff?

While many effects have been added, there are some notable missing effects/spells:

  • Healing prevention
  • Ward regen prevention
  • Ward turn negation (decreases available ward turns)
  • Ward bypass (% of damage goes through ward)
  • Stackable DoT
  • Buff prevention
  • Buff removal
  • Buff stealing
  • Silence (can't cast any spell/skill)
  • Disable (prevents a single skill from being used)
  • Ethereal (invulnerable but can't take turns)
  • Block revive
  • HP leeching (steal HP on hit, or passively per turn)
  • Ward leeching
  • Mana leeching
  • Mana burn
  • Ensnare (can still take turns, but can't dodge)
  • Immunity reduction (reduce SF or similar effects)
    Anything else?
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Additionally, since many of these effects have PvP relevance, should more PvP focused gear be released? Potentially gear that gives temporary buffs/immunities that only last a set amount of turns in the beginning, or have interesting passive effects like decreasing opponent crit%, ward power, etc. With the goal of slowing down PvP so more interesting strategies can be developed and used.

warped mulch
# umbral helm Status effects - love them or hate them - are an integral part to any RPG game. ...

are you trying to turn orna into a game that isnt enjoyable for anyone with these things? taking healcut which would only work in pvp since most the time enemies that heal are done very minimal or via a skill that gives recharge. buff stealing or removal is over all a really bad mechanic. theres amities for % chance to ignore ward and all of the ward leeching hp leeching mana leeching seem more like enchantment effects not status effects. ensnare would be stun youre stunned a chance to not take turn 100% chance to be hit removing. removing ward turns is also a very bad concept.

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the only strategy the game should require is if you chose to do pvp. everything else should be first time figuring out what works and doesnt then go with what works. every class should have some status prot because we went from lvl 1 to 250 (ideally) and have gained resistances to status effects along the way. similar to gaining experience with fighting you learned how to parry a hit better or how to light a fire or walk quieter. stead fast should be something every class gains as the game progresses

crisp pier
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Are the missing things stuff you see players having, monsters having, or both?

umbral helm
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Mechanics that are in other games, that aren't in Orna

crisp pier
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Ward bypass seems very Anti-Realmshifter

umbral helm
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Sure, but silence is anti-mage. Its just a list of ideas, not a mandate lol

umbral helm
crisp pier
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Silence would be anti-everyone in this game

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skills/spells are quite good for all classes

crisp pier
umbral helm
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I'm not the absolute authority of orna, its just a topic I thought was worth discussing as engaging with status effects in the game currently generally amounts to avoiding them as much as possible

warped mulch
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no but when people start discussing things like this the game tends to get screwy because we end up with incomplete features and unbalanced things that make the game unplayable for anyone. if i wanted an idle rpg id finish the game in a few weeks and be done with it.

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for example the way that meditation was implimented

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incomplete and screwy

crisp pier
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I think the existance of degenerate stun loops (where you loose your turn, lose the status, and then get it re-applied) is bad.

I also think they're not really going to be fun when they can't be played around.
Just randomly losing turns is not fun.
If you knew when/if you were about to lose a turn maybe it would be more fun.

But also, all statuses stacking with other statuses can get kinda nutty.
Fun to do vs a boss, but not fun to be on the receiving end of.
Which is why many bosses are immune to basically everything.
Games like pokemon create some counterplay with non-volitile statuses being mutually exclusive, but that wouldn't translate to orna

warped mulch
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the way the terras legacy is extrememly laggy

umbral helm
# crisp pier I think the existance of degenerate stun loops (where you loose your turn, lose ...

So like a counter for turns remaining beside the effect? Maybe mixed with diminishing returns for efficacy/application chance for repetitive use.

I agree, counterplay should exist, but I'm not quite sure of the best implementation. Unlike Pokemon, Orna has >4 moves, and equipment to play around with.

@forest vapor suggested that with multiple immobilization effects, only the highest % effect will roll for that turn, which I think is a good first step.

As people begin to struggle with high-ang raids, maybe their innate immunities should be reexamined.

umbral helm
warped mulch
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there is no potential to this tho i really do feel that alot of what youre mentioning could be pvp option but would make pve extremely tedious and annoying

umbral helm
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That's fine if its mostly PvP specific; PvP needs way more depth. I think there is space for a sprinkling of things in PvE though, like a single unique move on a Raid, or new enemy type in special dungeons like we saw in Darkrifts with Apex enemies.

hybrid pine
# umbral helm Status effects - love them or hate them - are an integral part to any RPG game. ...

I think the first step is to tweak the status effect system.
For now we have those modifiers :

  • Status Immunity
  • Status Effect Chance
  • Status Resistance Chance
  • Status Effect Damage
  • Positive/Negative Status Duration
  • Permanent Status Fading Chance

Status Immunity just nullify the whole status effect system.
Seen in raids, it doesn't open to build diversity : it's either he's completely immune or you use Chronomancer and perma-stasis to cheese the whole fight.

I would suggest to replace Status Immunities by 100% Status Resistance Chance, opening the Status Effect game, to those building Status Effect Chance and Status Effect Damage.

However, like you said the problem becomes similar to Stasis in the case of disabling Status stacking (Freeze, Paralyse, Blight, etc...)
You can be close to Stasis disabling turn chance and even stack extra effect like Blindness which will halves the enemy hit chance.
Right now there are no modifiers affecting the disabling effect of Status.
The closest concept would be the Status Effect Damage which increase DoT.

I would suggest to add amplifier disabling effect on this modifier and add Status Effect Disabling Reduction on Raids to grant them more status resistance.

With this you could rework Status Immunity granted by Accessories to Status Effect Resistance AND Status Effect Disabling Reduction, and to add more spices, you can even make the modifiers scaling with the quality : My Godforged Ankou Ring would have finally a more significative use to not only make me Sleep resistant but also allowing me to be awake enough to act sometimes !

umbral helm
hybrid pine
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Similar to Efficacious from Mages, bypassing Immunity to "just be" strongly resisted

foggy skiff
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Stasis needs a big nerf if you're going to be bypassing immunities. That already trivializes anything without immunity to it

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Petrify also becomes an issue

hybrid pine
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With Status Effect Disabling Reduction, you can balance things by limiting Petrification to 50% turn disabling

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Also I would suggest reworking all Purging/Cleansing abilities to IGNORE turn disabling when they are cast, to allow more gameplay.

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Nothing is more frustrating to have Wisp Heal to cleanse basic statuses, but to be forced Panacea because you redline with 1 status that can possibly disable the cleansing and taking the DoT to die miserably...

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If potions doesn't take account of statuses then cleansing abilities shouldn't either

boreal bronze
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In my honest opinion, here's how I would tackle the status "dillema"

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Split Steadfast and Steadfast-effects (ymir vritra, gorgon eyes, etc...) into two different effects:

Turn Loss Reduction and Status Effect Damage Taken Reduction

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The latter already exists in some gear, but the former is new entirely.
It'd work as follows:
Stasis, per example, has a 90% chance to skip your turn.
If you have 40% Turn Loss Reduction, you instead have a 50% chance to skip your turn.

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If you get enough Turn Loss Reduction, you become basically immune to losing turns

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This isn't nearly as "status effect ignoring" as steadfast though - after all, you're still suffering the other side effects of debuffs. You're still losing all your dodge chance when stunned, slept, stasised, petrified or frozen, or additional side effects that would come with a status effects revamp

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the Status Effect Damage Taken reduction would work similarly - and if you get 100% of it, you ignore damage over time altogether. Neat!
Once again, this doesn't ignore the side effects - You're still losing att/mag from burn, def/res from rot, crit chance from bleed, and other side effects with the status effects revamp

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This in turn would also let people itemize their "immunities" the way they want.
A realmshifter's real danger when redlining is the damage, moreso than the turn loss. They'd likely want to get the damage reduction.

On the other hand, Gilga doesn't particularly care about taking small damage, so it'd likely want to build for the turn loss reduction

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Lastly, this would also open up possibilities for enemies to have these resistances, rather than immunities - especially raids

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Also, some effects that deal no damage and also don't cause turn skips (Looking at you, Blind) would be unaffected by either resistance, so ya gotta build an immunity I suppose

warped mulch
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How would confuse work?

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It doesn't take your turn

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But it effects what you do in your turn

boreal bronze
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Good question, well asked - I imagine it'd fall under the same effect as Blind

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There are very few sources of confuse anyhow

warped mulch
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And even less sources of immunity

umbral helm
boreal bronze
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If you simply replaced current steadfast numbers with turn loss reduction numbers, Steadfast 2 classes would be immune to Stunned-and-below levels of turn loss, and turn Sleep and Petrified into stunned-levels of turn loss

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At the cost, of course, of actually being Blinded/Burned/Rotted/Slept/Petrified/Doomed/etc

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as opposed to currently where they basically never do

umbral helm
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Yeah that's true I guess, but SF effect is capped right? So should turn loss reduction have a cap as well? And an assassin effect interaction?

boreal bronze
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There's no cap to SF afaict

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there's just a minimum 3% application rate iirc

umbral helm
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There is something silly thematically about sleep and petrify being partial effects. I guess you could be "drowsy" instead, but if you're stone... Clay instead?

warped mulch
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Mud?

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Dirt

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We are cobblestone instead of stone

boreal bronze
umbral helm
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Anyway, this kind of change would mean there are no longer specific use cases for gear like waking pendant, or would they pair with a semblance of their original effect?

boreal bronze
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Steadfast isn't really an effect before t7 iirc, so they'd still have a good reason to exist.

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Plus, this rework would likely want to add something spicy to every status effect, so that even if you nullify the turn skip or damage, they're still doing something, even if less impactful

umbral helm
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Oh so it's different gear/adorns with a new effect, turn skip OR DoT protection, or you can gain individual effect immunity from the existing items

boreal bronze
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Yeah. The split would make it so that you can give either half from certain pieces of equipment, but you'll never be as strong as old steadfast - You can either prevent turn skips or damage over time, but hardly ever both, unless you itemise towards immunities

mellow jungle
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First and foremost: Please allow Nostrum to cure Toxic. 😅

Secondly, change up some DOT effects to something unique and make some of the remaining DOTs stackable. For example, Curse can instead reduce passive proc chances while active but you can now stack Burn and Poison.

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Turn-loss effects need to receive similar treatment too, IMO--keep some, stack some, change others entirely. There's nothing fun or engaging about losing several turns in a row or spending them on Panacea spam while timers for special reward bonuses are ticking away. Yes, immunity gear exists but that causes weird class disparities between those with and without Steadfast on top of gear restrictions.

I do like the idea of changing complete Immunity to statuses into a 0-100% resilience type of deal.

unborn dock
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I'm sure the name warframe will perk a few ears but I really like how the status effects in that game have multiple effects instead of just dots for example when's someone's frozen they take more crit much like how here when someone burning the deal less I think its just magic dmg or both I don't remember but it should feel rewarding to put status effects on enemies imo rather than just an extra 999 dmg and a possible turn skip

umbral helm
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I think it's a great idea to add secondary effects to the existing statuses. If we combine that concept with gearing that that either reduces turn miss or DoT/Effect, I think they will work well together.

This may require liberating faction tied debuffs if they get stronger.

deft lynx
deft lynx
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Multiple sources of poison would start stacking poison etc

crisp pier
# deft lynx Statuseffects do have hard counters...

I think if the only real counterplay to a mechanic
is to opt out of it entirely
that's not really counterplay (or at least not interesting/good counterplay)

The only real option to most statuses in orna is to

  • become immune (opt out)
  • ignore it (just hope you get lucky)
  • heal it (temporarily opt out)

Outside of that there's not much you can do.

What I would personally enjoy more is if statuses were more specific about what they disable/hamper.

For example,
if Paralyzed made it so you had a chance to fail using skills your options would be

  • use a non-skill action (basic attack, off-hand ability, spell, item, etc.)
  • ignore it
  • remove it

I think stuff like that would make it much more interesting since you could have options beyond "ignore it" or "opt-out"

deft lynx
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Status Effect "Miss turn chance" Changes

  • Blight: 25% -> 15%
  • Drenched: 5% -> 1%
  • Frozen: 40% -> 20%
  • Lulled: 20% -> 5%
  • Paralyzed: 25% -> 20%
  • Stasis: 90% -> 80%
  • Stunned: 50% -> 30%
  • Toxic: 10% -> 0%
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Any suggestions how we could save status builds in pvp?

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Currently immunities + the nerf is enough to destroy the playstyle

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Aaruviper did not deserve this ;-;

warped mulch
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no, missing turns it way to oppressive and makes the game incredibly unplayable which is why this was addressed. pvp is a very small amount of the game and could potentially see a buff in pvp but not pve

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but if you cant win pvp without status effects

forest vapor
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IMO status builds in pvp are not healthy gameplay as they are fairly one-sided. Either you're immune or you're losing your turn. Maybe this doesn't seem like a big deal to pet/summon classes, but losing your turn is arguably the worst feeling in the game

mellow jungle
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Worst feeling, for sure. Second place goes to your attack missing or getting blocked once you're finally able to move 😅

deft lynx
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Facing steadfast class is also worst thing to see

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Reducing every proc heavily ( unless casting debuffs)

mellow jungle
# deft lynx Any suggestions how we could save status builds in pvp?

The only one I would care to see remain the same or even get buffed from its original state is Paralyzed; It's the weakest of the 4 primary elemental debuffs.

Either a longer duration, higher turn-loss proc, or a secondary effect so it can compare to Burn, Rot, & Frozen.

deft lynx
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For examble attacks wont proc statuses vs steadfast. And sf2 basicly hard counters aaruvipers miasma3 bc the 15% base proc rates

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Like sf2 classes wont need immunities bc opponent cant even proc one mightiest_mimic

mellow jungle
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The problem is that you can stack the ability to inflict status effects much higher than someone trying to stack status protection while still having an offensively viable build, which is extremely important in a PvP setting with defensive decay being a thing.

deft lynx
mellow jungle
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Your use of Aaru Viper as an example only serves to undermine your own position; Beowulf doesn't need to do anything at all. They can get stun-locked just as badly as their opponent and the Viper will still eventually win the battle for them.

Meanwhile, that other guy just gets to sit there and die.

forest vapor
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Why are you saying sf2 counters your status build when you can easily run an excess of assassin effects?

deft lynx
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With full assassin build viper cant proc anything vs sf2

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Bc base proc rates

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Sometimes maybe 1 status

forest vapor
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That doesn't make sense, so maybe I'm missing something here. Can you explain?

mellow jungle
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Even with Autumna/Dullahan gear and Nagg Belts?

deft lynx
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Yup

forest vapor
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Assassin effects boost the proc rate for status effects

deft lynx
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I know

forest vapor
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Why would the base proc rate matter

deft lynx
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Miasma 3 is attack and has heavily reduced status rates vs miasma 2

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Also it can be blocked and missed

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15%+100% is 30% for examble

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And steadfast affects that hard

forest vapor
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Yup ok that's what I was getting to understand

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So the assassin% is applied to the percentage, not the multiplier

deft lynx
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Yup

forest vapor
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Instead of 1.15 * 2, it's 15% * 2

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Do you know what the proc rates are for the viper

mellow jungle
deft lynx
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Vs base gilga

deft lynx
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And this can be blocked and missed

mellow jungle
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You landed 8 out of 11 effects, though...

Screenshot_20251120_233230_Chrome.jpg
deft lynx
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T.att etc have more proc rates

forest vapor
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What's your spec?

deft lynx
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Asssassin

forest vapor
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Then you're at like 100% proc rate even for 15%

deft lynx
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I was not

forest vapor
deft lynx
forest vapor
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Steadfast 2 makes it -50% I guess

deft lynx
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I landed 3 statuses on 2 attacks

mellow jungle
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But Burn & Rot reduce offensive and defensive stats on top of the stat debuffs. They matter.

deft lynx
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Sure but i would be dead next turn

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Just bc im very squishy due hard asssassin invest

mellow jungle
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You don't have actual Autumna gear? You would actually have some Ward to live on and only lose 3 or so % status effect chance.

forest vapor
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This is all incredibly moot

deft lynx
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Autumna gear is worse

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I lose pet prot

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The taming

forest vapor
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You are complaining that you only have a greater than 50% chance to apply toxic/blight/paralyzed to a class with steadfast 2

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They are probably running vritra charm or briny charm anyway

deft lynx
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That just adds to the problem

forest vapor
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No, it's a symptom of the actual problem

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Status effects suck and you have 100% chance to apply all of them to anyone without steadfast

deft lynx
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Now that statuses are nerfed i wont gain protection from those 1 or 2 statuses that i proc( if they happen to be turn stoppers

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And now toxic is not turn stopper anymore

forest vapor
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I think this is a net positive, yeah. The gameplay you are advocating for is uninteractive for you and for them

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You did nothing and are hoping they get to do nothing

mellow jungle
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And survivability is available but you're spreading your build too thin. Keep the Fomor crown but use an Autumna chest and legs and you'll likely live a little longer.

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But on the matter of status effects overall, per the discussion, I am in favor of the reduced turn-loss chances. It doesn't look like the effect damage has been altered.

Now if they could just be more interesting over all, like the Warframe example or more interactions that occur while being hit with X while having Y...

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Like, Frost/Spark on a Drenched target is guaranteed to cause Frozen/Paralysis, but you can't cause Burn.

-# Increase Drenched distribution! Give us Sea Strikes II!

deft lynx
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And like i said autumna makes me die harder tbh

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Currently i can reduce dmg from summons and pets alot

mellow jungle
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Effect damage is the offense for a status build. Relying on the foe losing back-to-back turns for defense is the risk you're willingly taking.

deft lynx
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Effect dmg wont oneshot things so you need turn stoppers

mellow jungle
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Trade Fomor chest or legs with Autumna shield in the offhand, maybe?

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Keep the effects, gain tons of Def, Res, & Ward.

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Lose ~10% effect chance from Katana

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Fomor King* Shield (Autumna, specifically)

deft lynx
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Trading gear would >lose proc chance> beast taming

mellow jungle
deft lynx
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I do use that vs summoners/beos

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But vs others i use katana

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Bc turn stoppers are must

mellow jungle
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Why not just swap to Chronomancer and use Stasis then? Honest question. It would better guarantee those turn skips you're gambling on.

They equip a Timeless Pendant or True Aegis? Great, that means you've probably forced them to give up another immunity or a huge chunk of their usual Ward.

-# Not to mention there's no immunity to the Dmg↓↓ that the Viper can cause on top of the rest.

deft lynx
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Meaning vs steadfast i would lose 100% status chance

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So the 50% proc chance becomes way less

umbral helm
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This status change really puts non-SS users in quite the pickle for pvp huh

deft lynx
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Yea

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Forces us to go with ss or any other meta option

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Also ss wont be option for me bc the pen reduction

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That leaves me in bad spot

mellow jungle
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Which sucks sure, but your unique playstyle can't really govern how status effects work overall.

And non-SS users can still kill. Just not while relying on turn-skips and DoT effects to win. Way too many moving parts to be reliable, the way RNG is.

deft lynx
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Kill with what???

mellow jungle
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I've got Mana/Blood Ray. You play Beowulf so, uhhh... There are definitely options there. Among others.

deft lynx
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Do you know how much dmg dot do with optimal setup

mellow jungle
deft lynx
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Sure i can play like other beos with the fey cactus.. but meaning that one usable follower goes to pile of trash once again

umbral helm
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I get that the DoT strat is cheesy, but I'm talking about praying you don't get annihilated from a >500k ward + mammoth build while you build up a non-SS way to kill them

mellow jungle
deft lynx
umbral helm
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Ironically the one class that really needs to be vulnerable to turn skips is retaining/gaining steadfast

deft lynx
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That wont save you

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And that definitelly wont kill if you dont have turn stoppers to support

umbral helm
mellow jungle
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Concerning DOT stacking, I meant as a potential change to status effects overall.

That's the topic of the discussion thread, as I understand it.

deft lynx
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It is

mellow jungle
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Burn/Poison applied to already burning/poisoned target increases the DOT effect and/or duration, stuff like that

deft lynx
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Werent you the one that did not support that idea when i brought it up

mellow jungle
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Frozen grants a crit bonus, as mentioned above.

Curse reduces passive proc chances, like I suggested somewhere above.

And so on.

mellow jungle
umbral helm
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It may be fair to allow turn skip to stack if the rates are lowered, but up to a cap

deft lynx
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Yea

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Leaving some use for the effects

mellow jungle
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Stackable Burn means nothing with Burn immunity, but if DOT and turn-loss weren't baked into the same proc chance, then that immunity could instead be a reduction of burn DOT or quicker fade for it.

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That was something previously discussed

umbral helm
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Also for PvP, stacking enough for it to be meaningful may require new moves/gear/spec. No one is gonna spend 5 turns stacking burn in the current meta lol

mellow jungle
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Freeze, as an example of what's currently a great debuff, might not cause a turn loss as often as you like after the patch, but having your attacks guaranteed to hit is still huge.

deft lynx
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So instead of trying to dot enemy to death i cast freeze and verse iv ✅

mellow jungle
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I mentioned Curse having a different effect other than or in addition to mere damage over time.

Like, it's a Curse! Seal the use of my last skill or suppress my passives. A status effect that players don't have much access to should be much more interesting. It's still easy enough to cure/prevent.

deft lynx
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curse = your opponents all stats are weakened and may fail to cast spells

umbral helm
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Imagine arisen shield making a comeback

deft lynx
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Yea

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Tho curse immu is very common

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Also this makes mimics mischief lot more risky

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I got some ideas for status effect rework

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Or adjustments

mellow jungle
# umbral helm Also for PvP, stacking enough for it to be meaningful may require new moves/gear...

This is where immunities would have to be less of an all-or-nothing thing and more like degrees of resistance from 0-100%, which would be a lot to change.

Some things can still provide a flat % of resistance across the board but then we can have things like Beguiled Katar grant +50% resistance to Burn, Rot, Freeze, Paralyzed instead of rendering them completely useless.

That same res% can affect the DOT value, where applicable. In Odin's case, his Viper can stack all of that for him.

umbral helm
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Would autumna/assassin then increase both proc chance and dot value?

mellow jungle
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Sure. That already seems to be the case.

The granularity needs to be there so that potential secondary effects can still be applied or make the status effect still useful somehow.

umbral helm
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Oh, I'm a fool, forgot about the "+ effect damage" b/c I only look for "+ effect chance" for blights

mellow jungle
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But then we have room for something like being a Knight of Inferno grants an innate +25% Burn resistance and chance (on attacks that can Burn, not for all of your attacks). And then you make a burning build or something.

umbral helm
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That may make Frozen too strong, but I'd have to test it. Lots of gearing options for passive Frozen

deft lynx
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Sleep= 10% chance to stop action and increases each turn by 10% caps at 10 stacks. 5% reduction in dex each stack( starts as drowsy)
Frozen= chill 10% chance to stop turn ( caps at 10 ) and then turns into frozen 100% chance to stop turn, and takes 50% more crit dmg ( fades once dmged)
Burn = 2,5% dmg per tick and reduces 5% of offencive stats (increases each turn if not cleansed. Caps at 10 stacks)
Rot = same but reduces def/res^
Stunned= 20% chance and might also stop pet action
Blind = reduces accuracy by 10% each stack ( caps 10)
Cursed = reduces max ward and max hp by 5% each stack and increases each turn( 10 stack)
Windswept= reduces crit% by 5% each turn ( caps at 10 stacks)
Bleed = deals 2,5% dmg each tick and stacks to 10. Also reduces healing effectiveness by 5% each stack
Stasis= has 5%( stacks into 50%) chance to stop turn and makes enemy actions cost+1 turn
Poison= 1% dmg (stacks)( has 15% chance to turn into toxic if not cleansed)
Toxic =3% dmg per stack and has 1%chance to stop action per stack.

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Heres few ideas

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Maybe instead of % max hp it could be flat base dmg that gains % increase in dmg

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Paralyze, windswept, confused drenched, starstruct and lulled still lack adjustments ( im out of ideas )

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TITAN RUNES

Main rune gains increasing effectiveness per rune

Eos (- 5% accuracy per rune)
Prom( +3% dot dmg per rune)
Oceanus( +5% chance to stop turn per rune)
Selene ?
Themis?

deft lynx
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Now i have done lots of suggestions... feel free to vote

umbral helm
deft lynx
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No

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Needs to proc it multiple times to stack

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For examble multiple adorns with same status can stack with 1 hit if they all proc

ionic raft
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I do like the idea of status effects being able to stack and/or have their counter extended.

ionic raft
mellow jungle
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I noticed that Titan Mnemosyne took significantly less damage from DOT effects compared to the other Titans but I don't recall seeing a passive ability or anything to explain that.

If raid bosses can have similar adjustments made to them, and DOT stacking becomes a thing, then I can see such builds becoming viable in PvE if we lift an immunity or two from some non-super raids.

Maybe add in some low/mid-damage AoE Miasma-type stuff for horde content (Plague Doctor spec to match the sprite someday?) since most regular enemies are completely vulnerable to status effects.

boreal bronze
empty obsidian
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i think if we just get change to assassin allowing for a chance to ignore immunity and a bit of gear focused on increasing dot and chances for dot skills it would be fine but they would probably have to rework debuffs into dot and debuff seperately so chances dont make it unbearable to play against with stuff like petrify and stasis

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or something similiar like gear letting you have a chance at bypassing immunity

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i dont think that we should just make immunity gear useless or change them but make it to where some enemies and ways the players have at their disposal can ignore it at like a 40% chance

mellow jungle
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It could function a few different ways:

  • Reduced effect chance if immunity is present (20-30%)
  • Reduced effect damage if immunity is present (x0.5)
  • Reduced effect duration if immunity is present (🥖)
  • Only the DOT is applied if immunity is present; Stat debuffs won't work and/or turn loss won't proc
  • Some or all of the above?
empty obsidian
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i like the 4th one, like rot you take damage but dont get reduced stats

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for 3 what would happen for perma dots

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i can see 2

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1 that would just make immunities more of a deterent instead of blocker

mellow jungle
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I had Efficacious in mind for 1, where the damage is reduced to 15/25% of what it normally would be when hitting an immunity.

For this "Infiltrator" ability (Saboteur is already taken 😅), the chance would be reduced to a flat X% rather than being reduced by that value when the corresponding immunity is present regardless of additional status protection/Steadfast.

This would require 2, 4, or both attached to it, though, lest we turn around and nerf status effects again.

empty obsidian
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just rework assassins assassinate passive and make it a heavy dot based subclass

mellow jungle
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That would be simpler for sure

empty obsidian
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and of course make sure dot is seperate from debuffs so it doesnt get rediculous

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would hate to see perma petrified

deft lynx
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It could be like statuses would have x% chance to ignore immunity so immunity would still be effective

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Status proc check> immunity check> immunity ignorance check>= result

mellow jungle
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Ah, so similar to Omnimancy rather than Efficacious, then. I like it.

upper glen
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Hey guys. I found my people! As someone who always went for the status effect on games I was excited to see this game had a nice selection. The I found out it's not viable at all.

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Worst day of my life lol. I 1000 % would love and only play a character that relies on statuses and dot dmg. Hopefully odie and the crew can make it work at some point.

Whether it's from an item or a spec.

deft lynx
empty obsidian
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i womder how doom will play in this

deft lynx
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I mean same way

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You need to get proc> checks immunity> checks if you get past the immunity

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Something like 20% chance to bypass immunity would be balanced imo.

empty obsidian
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im just talking about the dot itself

deft lynx
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Wdym

empty obsidian
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and id say make it 35%, unless you have everything increased on proc chance

empty obsidian
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like would it be viable in raids, dungeons, pvp, if so how viable?

deft lynx
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I mean if you proc status on raids they do % dmg

empty obsidian
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also if its part of rogue identity maybe the dot damage can increase by AL

deft lynx
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Based on max hp

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I would tie it to assassin spec

empty obsidian
deft lynx
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So it could be used by all classes

empty obsidian
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imagine a beoh with doom

deft lynx
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Its literally same with beoA

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Or beoO

mellow jungle
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For Doom, specifically, I mean

empty obsidian
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true, unless it has a reduced countdown with assassin

deft lynx
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Does not need

mellow jungle
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I think that would be a bit much lol

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Starstruck's countdown should definitely be reduced, though

deft lynx
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Agreed

empty obsidian
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doesnt assassin make doom 6 turn?

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it increases the dot turns on enemies

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3 or 4 wouldnt be to bad

deft lynx
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It makes statuses last +1 turn longer

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Not countdown

empty obsidian
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yea, and it works for doom countdown too

deft lynx
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Weird

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I havent played with doom so i dont know about that much

empty obsidian
deft lynx
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#💡│suggestions message

empty obsidian
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couldnt test damage on cactus bc it doesnt have health so it wont show damage but they didnt really plan on dot being a strat ig

upper glen
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Hope you guys don't mind another voice in here with thoughts..
If you tie it to assassin, how do you actually balance it. The dot dmg will either be broken and op or borderline useless. You would need a way to somehow scale it up

empty obsidian
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and dots would still have a rate of disapearing, you would have to have like 4 to do decent damage

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honostly just leaving the %s alone on damage and just let us dot through immunities at like a 40% rate would be good

upper glen
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But then you're tying it to a class not a spec, I don't know how it's calculated atm but does it have its own set damage values or scale off something

empty obsidian
upper glen
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Right. ALs are not though

empty obsidian
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the spec would carry the al boost

upper glen
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Ohhh

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My fault.

empty obsidian
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that way it could work on any character like someone mentioned earlier they wanted

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so its not locked to realm

upper glen
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Yeah I actually love that. I didn't want It tied to a class

empty obsidian
upper glen
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I didn't know you could have a spec pull from ALs

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Yeah I love the assassin spec on paper but it just seems so lackluster?

empty obsidian
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change damage to ward to status chance on assassinate, and add AL scaling as another passive or to subterfuge

empty obsidian
upper glen
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That's my dream

empty obsidian
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you could easily (if it procs) deal a couple million a turn with decent gear

upper glen
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Right and then you could just pull levers to balance it out

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It would also open up alot of build options as well as possibly some different adornment choices

empty obsidian
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and if you get super lucky and proc say doom, blight, burn, rot, bleed, sekhmet, poison, and toxic

empty obsidian
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and some only used for codexing skills could be good too

upper glen
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Well you guys have this all figured out lol

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All my thoughts in my head you just laid out everything

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You could even release gear with maybe instead of status dmg you can do status chance for even more options

empty obsidian
upper glen
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Yeah I think that's all of it

empty obsidian
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this specifically is amazing

upper glen
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I was farming for an ornate version of those. Only found legendary

empty obsidian
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wish i had nabbed an ornate but i wasnt looking for it back then

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i was farming the benefactor head

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(wish it gave a ward skill not arrowstorm) but its whatever

upper glen
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Hah yeah

empty obsidian
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this is interesting

upper glen
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Yeah I thought they might do something with statuses when they released that gear and I got all excited but nothing came till now

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I play gilg now, hoping to get an ornate arisen top hat for my gursa but I'd find some kind of status build

empty obsidian
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they might have wanted to entice us and get a discussion like this going

upper glen
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You're also forgetting the best item. Arisen genius from cade

empty obsidian
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if im using a weapon for dot

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its final horseman scythe

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if doom is as good as i think it will be

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and cursed

upper glen
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Hmmm

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Yeah that's good too

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Both viable for sure

mellow jungle
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DOT is based on the victim's maximum HP and the base % of the status effect itself (which you can check in the codex).

empty obsidian
upper glen
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i was thinking that would be kinda broken as someone who has AL1 is still doing the same damage as someone who is AL100 if its all based on max hp% and the status itself

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but maybe you just use the AL scaling to help when you start increasing the difficulty

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but then its also balanced if it only has a 40% activation chance that way as well

empty obsidian
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if you have a 20% chance and on that 20% proc you have a 40% to pierce it can be kinda unreliable

upper glen
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True

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I know someone said just let them always pierce 100% of the time with asassasin

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but make the proc chance be whatever

empty obsidian
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no that would make any immunity gear useless

upper glen
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well, i meant pve wise*

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PVP is a whole nother issue

empty obsidian
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true

upper glen
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But yeah, someone definitely smarter then me can make all the numbers work

empty obsidian
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id be fine with a massive increase (or atleast decently big) in general proc chance and keeping pierce at 40 for pvp balance too

upper glen
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it would probably be a niche option for players, but i do know there are other players out there that would love it as well

deft lynx
willow nest
deft lynx
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Finesse

upper glen
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that is so nice

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hopefully odie and his crew love the idea we put out there and will make it happen

umbral helm
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So this event just made me realize that there isn't any equipment that causes status effects when you attack someone wearing it AFAIK. What if attacking someone wearing gear with elemental enchantments had a % chance of inflicting that status when you attack them that stacks per item, say ranging 5-20% per piece, lower % for turn skip, higher % for DoT. Related to the current event, what of Morri gear had the same stacking chance to inflict Morrigan's curse against attackers, and multiple procs decreased the turn counter faster.

sullen jewel
umbral helm
# sullen jewel I’m going to say that any class that doesn’t have a form of steadfast would be o...

Pet attacks can be excluded from this effect, and summon attacks would affect the summon, but immunity gear is still there for other cases because the moves can still be cast manually. But opposition based on current class identity is not really something I think we should be concerned with if it means not developing interesting mechanics and build variety, then if necessary, interesting counterplay mechanisms (like status reflect).

A big theme of this thread so far is that if SF changes are such a deal-breaker, then the status effect system needs some overhauling so that its less of a dichotomy between permanently affected or an afterthought.

mellow jungle
# umbral helm So this event just made me realize that there isn't any equipment that causes st...

I misread this at first.

I thought about something like this but it was more along the lines of causing damage (like a Rocky Helmet in Pokémon) to your attacker.

It would be cool as a temp buff or stance but non-Steadfast classes would be at a huge disadvantage. Like, Gilga puts up "Spiked Armor" or is wearing the Vest of Nessus/whatever and now that redlining Realmshifter can't touch them because it'll cause Bleed or Poison and they'll die.

umbral helm
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How often is a RS in pvp in the range where they a single/few DoT turns end them though?

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I'd think a thorns effect on armor may also interact with ward

mellow jungle
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Well, it would be even worse in PvE; Have you ever had to sit around waiting for Cerus to switch his "Defend" stance just to hurt him? 😅

umbral helm
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It doesn't have to apply to PvE, or not broadly at least

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Kind of like counter attack, you know not to attack during that turn, so maybe a similar effect where you get punished with a status if not paying attention

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Maybe thief gear can have higher rates of status reflection to counter these kinds of builds, but at some other kind of cost like -dex or -ward