Follower Abilities: Remove, Replace, Adjust

[spare river]

Looking to collect some feedback on what people would like to see in terms of follower ability changes.
Of course there are certain followers that will be discussed in depth, but another goal is to hopefully find some overlapping or underwhelming follower skills or spells to make more followers useful overall.

Summary...
Eventually

[spare river]

The discussion on followers skills/spells started to over take the Bestial Bond discussion thread, so it felt best to keep separate them to keep things on-topic

Some followers already discussed:
Giant Panda: The removal of ward of light II

• #1412584880822292571 message

Arisen Bloodwarg: Removal of bleed

• #1412584880822292571 message

Fenrir: Removal of Osmostrike

• #1412584880822292571 message

Fafnir: Removal of Pray II and Darkstrike II

• #1412584880822292571 message

T10 Sphinx Kit: Replace Cleanse with Dispel

• #1412584880822292571 message

Steward Gwyllgi: Removal of skills/Has too many that are useless

• #1412584880822292571 message

Shade of Achlys, The Red Dagger: Removal of perfect shot and casted shadows

• #1412584880822292571 message

[mossy path]

In the case of Lindworm, should we remove all Magic Skills ?

[spare river]

Imo yes, Lynd execute is still not as strong as some other raiding options but this would at least allow it to have some consistency over some others

And besides early T10 using Fjalar is there anything other physical Dmg raid pet that is usable?

[mossy path]

That will also mean that Meliodas' follower will Lyon's Mark systematically

[spare river]

Hmmm that is true, I still think either way 4 magic skills is a bit much

Though in reality that shouldn't change its chance to debuff tho no?

Since afaik follower skills are tried for in order that they come up in their skill list (I'm not 100% on this tho)

[mossy path]

I don't think, I know for a fact Follower AI helps Lindworm to choose Lyon's Mark and Lyon's Execution instead of Magic Skills

Meliodas not having Follower AI, Lindworm does what it pleases

But we can just remove Spells to replace it by one or two useful skills/buffs

While keeping in mind this is a t6* event Follower

No t10 or absurd skill/buff

[spare river]

What about removing the 4 spells and giving it blightstrike II, keeps the dragon theme along with a decent physical skill (also adds something else to play around against Meli)

Or Holystrike II for a "light" theme of sorts

[mossy path]

I was gonna suggest some of those :

• Physical equivalent of those Magic Skills :

Riposte
Horizontal Slash
X Slash

• Good multi-turn abilities for a follower :

Coup de Grace
Unrelenting fury

• Dragon themed multi-turn scaling on Dragon killed :

Dragon's Vengeance

[mossy path]

Holystrike would synergize with the Holy weakness given by Lyon's Mark, good idea

Onslaught would be insane

[spare river]

Yeah Drel mentioned that concern earlier with the thought of Steward reducing Steward Gwyllgi's moveset 😅

[mossy path]

Ravage for extra AoE, which is the weakness of Mark-Execute

[spare river]

Ravage would be a perfect follower skill in general I feel, has only semi AoE so it's not broken per say, but also strong enough to clear horde content

[mossy path]

Give that to Bloodwarg to complete with Cleave

Omnistrike could be also an option to debuff

[spare river]

I do like the idea of lindworm move set being

• Lyon's Execution
• Lyon's Mark
• Holystrike II
• Omnistrike II or III

Removes the useless magic skills, and provides it with other decent options that feel synergistic without being too strong and just spamming mark -> execute -> mark -> execute -> and so on

[mossy path]

Omnistrike II or III

else it's too weak

[spare river]

Ahh true, had it mixed up with the higher tier version "Omnistrikes"

[mossy path]

I would have loved Onslaught in it, but would be too strong, kinda like Arisen Spiritgarm having Meditation and Fey Ultimate spells right ?

[spare river]

Honestly it's so hard to actually balance pets when things like Fey Cactus and Spiritgarm exist... They just have such focused move sets with a nearly 0 chance of you feeling disappointed when they act

[mossy path]

Yep, and as I say we must keep in mind that it is still a t6 follower, it is okay to not be perfect or too focused

We can still ask for a t10 Lindworm

[mossy path]

I think you can pin this with the modification to Omnistrike II-III, and he's good to go

[spare river]

I'll pin it for now and tmr add it to the overall summary that I'll do up and just edit as things are discussed (formatting on mobile is way too painful )

[mossy path]

Do we continue on Physical Raid Follower with the best non-event follower : Fjalar ?

[spare river]

I feel like Fjalar isn't too far from being in a great spot, it's just Aerial Barrage being a T7 skill causes it to just lack dmg overall, though quad cut does kinda feel out of place

Of course he'd also benefit highly from the removal/changes to bonded strikes which we'll hopefully see

[mossy path]

Yeah it's a good starter when you unlock t10, but Evasive strikes is only decent for the T.Crit which dissipate as quickly
Quadcut II doesn't crit and its damage is not very good (it's a t9 skill).
Also Speed is just a buff that prevents the follower to attack turn 1, not nice

Here are the abilities I would prefer to see and test on Fjalar :

• Exploit II
• Inquest
• Hexacut
• Horizontal Slash II-III
• Riposte II-III
• X-Slash II-III
• Sortie I-II

[spare river]

Evasive Strike gives T.crit+ I thought?
I do like the idea of replacing quadcut with either Sortie I-II or X-Slash II-III

[mossy path]

Mb, I corrected it

[mossy path]

Fjalar

• Speed -> REMOVED

Underwhelming boost preventing the follower from having a significant first turn

• Aerial Barrage -> Aerial Barrage II

Lack some damage

• Quadcut II -> Sortie

Same as Aerial Barrage but doesn't crit, got replaced by a Crit Skill

• Evasive Strikes -> Inquest

Evasive Strikes is a non-Crit Skill that offer a slight Crit boost, the player can use it also, better to replace by a more significant boost

[mossy path]

Having only two attacks feels lacking, what do you think ?

[crimson forum]

Lyon's execution is physical skill. So with gunnr he uses those magic spells less often.

Blightstrike is a physical skill. This might be a direct nerf, depending on AI. I doubt dmg increase in Blightstrike will be enough to compensate for AI choosing Lyon's excution less often (With gunnr)

[spare river]

Does it actually work if you use gunnr though? Ever since I've used prom towerfall I've come to just auto assume pet AI is a scam, so many times I've had Snotra active and it just spams cleave and Sortie over and over and over again...

[spare river]

I do like this, but I feel with Aerial Barrage there needs to be something like "Aerial Barrage II" as the T8 Turul follower uses Aerial Barrage as well, but there's also the fact that Turul as a pet is a hot mess/really bad, but either way, I agree with the need for a bit of a Dmg bump

[mossy path]

changed and pinnable

[spare river]

This actually got me a bit more curious so I just did some testing with Medusa and Penguin, 2 pets that have both magic and physical attacks.
100 turns with each, 50 of them with gunnr and 50 of them with Snotra and tracked when they used a skill vs when they used a spell.

Medusa

• Snotra:
  Spells used - 37
  Skills used - 13
• Gunnr:
  Spells used - 20
  Skills used - 30

Penguin

• Snotra:
  Spells used - 25
  Skills used - 25
• Gunnr:
  Spells used - 22
  Skills used - 28

It definitely affects what they're using... But I really think Pet AI needs to be looked at more in regards to this. It almost feels like the pets are prioritizing the chance of debuffs their spells provide over "thinking" about the gait that's active.

I'm mainly thinking this is the case cause for Medusa it felt like it wanted to use stonestare as much as possible, then the moment they were petrified it wouldn't touch it, and with Penguin he was spamming Infernus Mire but the moment they had 2/3 of the debuffs it gives it would start using something else.

Obviously this is a small sample size and I'll do more testing even with other pets. But either way I think if Gunnr is active my pet should not be using magic spells anywhere close to 50% of the time (even with only 50 turns of testing)

[spare river]

I'll start working on that Summary there now to keep adding to it 🫡

[pearl marten]

Adding holy damage to lindworm would honestly just bloat it the same way wyrm seal is with little benefit.

If you are using lindworm you are using your faction affinity for an extra damage boost unless it is immune, holy strike just prevents the only desired skill from being used.

Also a follower with base inquest would probably be too much... It is a neat idea though.

[rugged citrus]

I feel like kerberos and fafnir should have ravage

And honestly i dont like kerberos (raid) followers movesets in general

It literally has no use atm

[crimson forum]

Elemental alignment if you have no apolly gear

[fathom notch]

Can't believe this hasn't been brought up yet. Remove Bear's Might from Oslo. Why does a follower meant for defending territory have a skill that completely nukes your defense stats? With rampant m1 inflation it's less of an issue but still... has Odie ever commented on this?

Either bloodlust would be an ok replacement, with a defensive buff on Amarok to separate them. I know it has bear in the name. But please lol. The follower is so cool. Would love to have it as an option to sit on but that skill just kills it for me

[crimson forum]

I think its a more thematic thing than functional. Oslo indeed looks like a bear.

[rugged citrus]

I use oslo bc bearsmight

Its very good for ss builds

On beo A

[crimson forum]

For pvp?

[rugged citrus]

Yea

And territory

• the def/res drop actually helps you take more dmg so you redline way easier

Which gives more dmg to oslo and you

[crimson forum]

Why not just use BeoH for ss?

[rugged citrus]

Why not make beoH the only class on the game?

[spare river]

Now we're talking

[pearl marten]

Honestly, Amarok and Oslo are in a weird place. BeoH likes Amarok as the only follower that gives it 3 ward turns, but otherwise they are worthless because they only spam ward of ortanite on BeoA.

[rugged citrus]

Ehh i do like them tho

On beoA

[pearl marten]

I agree that given their status as guild rewards they should be... more usable. However outside of their territory passive you wouldn't care about them (Crown feller isn't strong or consistent enough to change that) and we could do without Oslo destroying 90% of your defensive stats right before your opponent moves.

[rugged citrus]

I also like steward gwylgi on beoA bc it boosts ss alot

But only issue on gwylg is the annoyong max hp bonus on bb1

[pearl marten]

Odin I love you and all, but you are not helping yourself by doing non beoA stuff on beoA

[rugged citrus]

What

[pearl marten]

Go base beo if you are going to do any direct offense, unless you are going for sort of "barely kill the opponent through second chance with direct and pet attacks in one turn" thing beoA isn't helping your PvP.

Well, unless you are going for mammoth stall annoyance.

[fathom notch]

I could stomach it more if maybe Oslo's bb was changed to something more offensive. Make Oslo offensive focused and Amarok defensive, maybe

[pearl marten]

Oslo should have some sort of attack buff that doesn't debuff you for sure... Amarok, I don't know what his identity should really be but defensive could work.

Like Oslo could straight have a bb3 bonus of "bears might cast by this follower cannot debuff you" or something, but that still wouldn't fix it enough because of the bad ai.

[fathom notch]

So by ss builds, you mean other classes besides Gilga I don't think other classes ||read beo|| need the help over Gil for pvp. Their turn1 is already heaps higher than mine since selene hands are more tolerable after the act rate debuff they got

I'm not sure if BB are in scope for the thread? Or just skills

[pearl marten]

Honestly if I ever take def--/res-- in PvP against anyone even marginally around my level, I just immediately die. I want to face these people who can't kill me through 90% reduced defensive stats.

This thread is for suggestions or discussions around simple and direct changes to follower abilities. Honestly we should probably push the discussion not directly about abilities or their direct interactions with bestial bonds to the other thread.

[fathom notch]

Gotcha. In that case, I'll leave it at, maybe Bloodlust 1 or 2 for Oslo, and something like Blessed Shield for Amarok. I don't like the Tempering skills on them either. Their damage is too low and unless you're on Assassin or have the related gear it's highly likely it's a wasted action

[gentle hound]

For the followers that boost accuracy, maybe include some of the can't miss skills for them?

[gentle hound]

I feel weird about sortie being on this one since it's on mighty slime who ALSO boosts crit.

In the same vein though, I would love Fenrir to have omni and osmostrikes II replaced with omni and osmostrike III.

[pearl marten]

There are a LOT of bad fixed accuracy skills. The chance we are actively harming the skillset by adding most of them is very high.

[gentle hound]

I can understand that. I was more wanting a follower who would finish off people that are hard to hit AND down to just 1hp.

[gentle hound]

Like I'd love to change Great Monoceros to just have Trample, Guarding Strikes II, and Perfect Shot.

But that's quite a change from it's Gilga focus. Although I haven't noticed any players using it myself?

[pearl marten]

There are some followers you don't see in use for a reason, GM is one of them.

the skills are weak and one buff is a for a gilga-specific mechanic.

[mossy path]

Mighty Slime was had a Ward BB before switching to Crit BB, I used him in Towers to finish the monsters left at 1 HP, but now with Disciple of Finesse this is no longer necessary

[wild canyon]

As a gilga today, with insane ward consumption brought by SS changes, i would never even think of using a pet that increased my ward consumption even more

[thick pollen]

Replace t7 wolpertinger sidesteps with just a regular dex buff or something, it gets spammed even when you already have dex and t def res down

[pearl marten]

Foob what class are you running wolpertinger in?

[thick pollen]

Here but ive noticed it most when doing mem hunts as base beo

[pearl marten]

That explains it a bit, base beo has 5% free follower AI boost.

That boost makes followers a lot more serious about using temp buffs.

[thick pollen]

unfortunate

[reef hornet]

I dont agree
Just cast call of brynnhild, slap some follower ai adorns and u will literally have execution every turn

Since lyons mark is a debuff

Using call of brynnhild makes it cast it literally every time

[pearl marten]

The last time I tried lindworm on BeoA, Wyrmseal was around 1/3 of its casts.

I tested one of those fallen sky ai boosts at some point and couldn't notice a difference.

[reef hornet]

Bruh

Use call of brynhild

[pearl marten]

I was.

You literally can't run that follower without it.

[reef hornet]

Then it cant cast wyrmseal

[pearl marten]

Sure.

[reef hornet]

Or ur doing something wrong

[pearl marten]

You overestimate how much brynhild stops the wyrmseal cast.

[reef hornet]

Bruh i literally had no problems

[umbral lodge]

Shade of Rhada, The Great Shield is currently a mess. If they could be changed to be more like stonewarg but att that might be better.

-Significantly increase buff rate
-Remove holy sigil and debuff rate
-Remove attack rate

[pearl marten]

Show your loadout, I've never had lindworm ignore wyrmseal. I'll reserve my judgement because I haven't used it in a long ass time though.