Grand Summoner Hydrus Rework

[long glacier]

Ah yes there it is

Nah kidding i don't see anything

[dusk sandal]

you're totally not SSHed into odies computer

[long glacier]

You're using funny words mathmagician

[lyric fjord]

no way, i use port 23 instead. completely invulnerable

have great weekends, all

[hearty dove]

You too big man

[surreal zodiac]

truly

[tacit urchin]

GSH getting frenzy!?! /s

[surreal zodiac]

no

[hollow plume]

...t yet

[final oar]

Those who know about the gitlab incident

[surreal zodiac]

i am missing the first iteration of buffs that you can get whenever u use hypa

[long glacier]

I call it "Where Patchy?"
(enjoy with sound)

[hearty dove]

Lmfao

Thank you

[long glacier]

How do we feel about the lack of perma buffs given by this iteration of the passive?
Ik my first reaction was that they're mostly convenience but playing around with it a bit i feel like they were a part of the excitment with the former iteration of the passive.
Shortening the setup in any content and contributing to a fluent playstyle unlike what we've seen from any summoner subclass before.

Yea i think that was the catch for me, GSH being fluent.

[devout garden]

It was also how versatile it was, in the sense of you being able to get any status effect as long as it was in your loadout

That way you could also do some creative stuff with specs that aren’t used often

Personally I would have only changed being able to use items to become immune to some of the negative status effects, and limiting some of the spells we can get buffs from, such as the apex ones and so

[long glacier]

Yea but then there's
#1410277906935975976 message and i really can't argue against it.
Excluding some and including other buffs would most likely result in

🍝

[devout garden]

Agree, it’s just a sad because we were talking about that iteration being almost shippable just a few days ago, and now we’re back here

[long glacier]

True, we gotta make the best outa it and imo one part was it creating perm buffs too, so you could just go in guns blazing🔫

[hearty dove]

With perm buffs and CR working between floors (which looked to be working on Odie's end already) I think we'd likely be close to a final product

But obviously gotta test first

It should at least be faster than GSA at dungeons, and it currently is not

[subtle tusk]

I also feel like with increased rates of the good temp. Buffs and increased CR rate, this version could work similarly to how other classes do

[hushed sedge]

I still think that CR should have 100% chance to summon back something from loadout if a summon died from a pact + an additional base % that can trigger any turn regardless.
I keep trying to make both BP and HyPa work as main skills, but it looks like it is not feasible in terms of time to setup vs actual clear efficiency.
Currently it feels like Despair or BL2 are required to use the class or just makes the whole experience far better than just using the base GSH kit

Then something strange happened while testing, but I'm unable to replicate it for some unknown reason:
-Early floors boss horde dungeon
-Ang 11, asc 1, definitely some extra damage taken from ang maluses, Maji spec

• 3-4 summons out, no buff sharing gear, minimal gear to survive some hits, double +%pact "staves" and riftlocks + benefact amity
• Cockatrice uses tricut -> i trigger one second chance instance but all summons dies as if being hit by that tricut (with skill visual effect on them)
  Is this intended?

[long glacier]

If you'd die by a hit and 2nd chance is triggered all your summons popp and you get 5% HP per popped summon.

[long glacier]

But isn't this the case for any other class? That gear X is needed to enhance the gameplay?
I mean you could use Bard GSH too to some success.

[hearty dove]

Like kaine said, no other class can AoE without spec and without a 2h weapon

Only pseudo aoe

Exception being followers and summons, though you kinda need Tamer and Benefactor, respectively, for making the AoE good enough

[surreal zodiac]

first iteration was great, 2nd one is nice since u can get t. buffs but if we can only have the 1st iteration plus t. buffs and a hypa that can hit 3 enemies while having 2 summons, and also a higher cr GSH is already shippable tbh.

the first iteration really made gsh look strong and fast. If we can only get positive buffs only from the skills that'll be super nice. And getting t. buffs on top of that would be nice too. I don't wanna settle for gsh to be like this, it kinda feels underwhelming.

the 1st iteration is almost there it almost felt nearly complete with a few minor adjustments from here and there.

[dusk sandal]

Currently it feels like Despair or BL2 are required to use the class or just makes the whole experience far better than just using the base GSH kit

this makes sense to me since a 2H weapon offhand spell should provide a useful benefit vs not having that gear restriction. I just hope there'll be some gear down the line that fits the gsh identity better (full aoe pact offhand spell?), because currently all 4 mage classes spam BL2 which is rather boring in terms of class variety

and its not like BL2 nerf would improve it much. Lets say BL2 becomes unusable and we all have to use despair. Then all 4 mage classes will just switch to despair, so then you still dont have variety

[hearty dove]

If everyone switches to despair then suddenly heretic best class lol

[dusk sandal]

in a numbers game like this, everyone will just use the best option. The only way you can create variety I think is if you introduce weapons that synergize with specific classes. But even then the gameplay is kinda the same lol. Like instead of spell A you would use spell B and the gameplay is still spamming that one spell

well I guess at least there could be some difference in builds. E.g. if gsh gets pact aoe move, then you would gear differently than if you used bl2

[surreal zodiac]

exactly

if all i wanna do is do envy and bl2 spam I'd just go for heretic or deity for that

because i can utilize bl2 more on those classes

[fast garnet]

Could you please elaborate?

Why do you think its this way?

[fast garnet]

Problem is that this will limit builds.... meme builds like beo-summoner will disappear

[surreal zodiac]

if we can have a full pact aoe then at least you can build it differently and do something different with it while synergizing it with the gsh's passive

[hearty dove]

Fwiw it's not unfeasible to simply add the hypothetical full aoe pact to yelbeghen quarterstaff

Since it already has BL2, making it a clone of yelbeghen staff

Could add variety there

[devout sedge]

Also, full aoe pact on 2h weapon could be used by base GS as well for people eho hasn't unlocked GSH yet

[surreal zodiac]

and it'd be nice to get a cr bonus for an item that will let us do full aoe pact cus obviously I don't think we're gonna get 100% cr

[surreal zodiac]

yeah but with the lack of cr it won't be very good

and giving cr bonus should only apply to gsh only so that base gs can't use it

[void portal]

i don't think beo players use beo-summoner build that much am i wrong?

[fast garnet]

Yes but the idea to use extremely creative builds will disappear if "class" bound will appear everywhere

I mean in every aspect of the game

Like they already tried it out with this weird low tier gear which works to full extent with the correct subclass equipped.

Its interesting but as we see - nobody uses it

By introducing mass-specLIMITED gear will reduce the diversity of already monotone builds out there even more

[subtle tusk]

i mean thats true but the only ways to make GSH comparable without making gear unique to it, is to make the passives insanely op compared to other classes, since we dont have pets

cause pets are a big part of builds

and the current temp buff passive is just a weaker version of other classes' temp.buff passives

while not having a pet to give buffs aswell

i really think its a numbers game, if we get bigger chances of CR, bigger chances of buffs, we can compare

[ornate nacelle]

There is one spell, but need to unlock Heretic Ara..

[hearty dove]

Still pseudo-AoE, right?

Ara Vesta (3?)?

[ornate nacelle]

Ara vestaga

[hearty dove]

That one requires sigils though iirc

[devout sedge]

Hits everyone with sigils on right?

[ornate nacelle]

It basically hitting all target..
But not high damage without sigil..

Still can work around it with crit build..

[hearty dove]

Meaning you need to either spend multiple turns casting the sigils, making it a multi-turn spell; or you need to use a flask, which is similar to using Apex (which has built in AoE)

[devout sedge]

Hypa 3 full aoe if you have 5 summons?

[subtle tusk]

i think hypa 3 which just hits 5 times will just be a raiding tool if it gets added

[devout sedge]

But it's only 1 hit so it can't be better then HyPa 2 for raids?

[hearty dove]

Fwiw if you're saccing 5 summons the spell better be real good because you're going to need 2 turns to refuel

That's essentially a 3 turn spell

[subtle tusk]

if its the power of the deity aoe spells but non elemental

[hearty dove]

(That can't be quickcast)

[subtle tusk]

i think thats fair?

[dusk sandal]

this is unsustainable

[subtle tusk]

but yeah CR rates are cooked

[dusk sandal]

if we get a full aoe pact it should be locked to a weapon and only sac 2 summons imo

[devout sedge]

Would be like an apex, one every 3-4 turns

[subtle tusk]

ye but the apex spells arent sustainable too

[hearty dove]

Except deity uses BL to charge apex

And we wouldn't have BL cuz that pact is on our 2h weapon

[subtle tusk]

why is it on the 2h weapon

cant it just be on GSH

[dusk sandal]

well I wouldnt use it much if I need full 5 summons to use it. Its not the same as vestaga on heretic, because at least flask charge carries over between towers encounters. You're never going to take a ton of turns for summoning

[devout sedge]

The hypa3 i meant was in base kit not weapon locked

[hearty dove]

Also apex is charged every 2 or 3 spells, and at the current rate it's a 35% to charge 1 summon of which you need 5

[hearty dove]

Ah okay

[devout sedge]

But for dungeons it would be nice

It's a faster set up then hypa2

[subtle tusk]

what if you used BL2, and every 3 turns you got to hit a hypa3 to kill the floor and charge 50% of your passive

ofc we would need better CR rates for this to feel nice

[dusk sandal]

why? Just because you sac more summons in 1 go?

[subtle tusk]

and then hopefully using it and killing 5 of your summons would consistantly give you good temp.buffs

[devout sedge]

Yep, it's 50% in one floor

[subtle tusk]

something like bare minimum killing 5 summons would give you temp. magic 1 and 2, most times temp magic 3, and sometimes deific

[devout sedge]

Two floors for full passive

[dusk sandal]

thats OK I guess, but imo it wouldnt change the gameplay that dramatically

[subtle tusk]

you cant change the gameplay dramatically lol its orna this game is literally the same on every class with just different names for things

(i still love it though)

only way to dramatically change is add a class unique system like flasks/frenzy or smth like that

but that wouldnt make that much sense either since its only a rework of a single celestial class, not a classline

[devout sedge]

Maybe you could add that using hypa3 boosts CR rate for some turns, making it recharge faster

[subtle tusk]

i kinda love that

[dusk sandal]

for real the gameplay is spam 1-2 buttons

[subtle tusk]

ritual that increases summon rate, possibly even making it summon 2 sometimes would be so peak

[devout sedge]

But if used on one enemy it's still only a single hit

[subtle tusk]

yeah raids might be crazy if that wasnt the case

[devout sedge]

Ye, but like this you could add it to your raid routine to have better sustain on hypa2

[ornate nacelle]

Hypa act like ara vesta or CS..
But then I remember it's hard to get parting remark, life siphon, or mana regen because hypa doesn't count as summoner act

[devout sedge]

Odie showed that he has the fix for that

[hushed sedge]

That's way too harsh for a second chance tbh. Even without battalion, summons can soak some random hits and GSH still doesn't have much stats without trading +%pact for extra defenses/ward.
It follows up directly on what I said about Despair/BL2 too.
I wasn't referring to the AOE aspect specifically, but the usability of HyPa and BL depends on having you summons out vs other spells that just need mana to be used.
If you proc 2ndC, and no summons are left behind, GSH kit becomes unusable.
From here the choices are even fewer than other classes imo:
-Fall back to another spell, but that's kind of off-putting as it is no different than normal mage play( and yes, in this case having despair, BL2 or similar skill would be BiS in horde content at least)
-Recover and probably get bashed again, so this becomes more like hoping to survive and do something.
Other classes face a similar choice on a 2ndC, but they still have access to their kit to try and push through the situation

[long glacier]

We don't have a 2nd chance on live and while everything you stated might be true, you only have those options because you have any form of 2nd chance in the first place.
Your only option atm w/o a 2nd chance is
being dead.
Thus i welcome any form of a 2nd chance as a way to possibly compensate any oopsy i make rather than
being dead.

We've had this discussion already and concluded that any 2nd chance is better than none.
Plus CR still has a 35% chance to procc so in 35% of all cases 2nd chance proccs you still have a summon left.

[void portal]

how about a 100% cr rate after a second chance?

or one summon is guaranteed to survive after second chance

[subtle tusk]

I really think we should explore some ways of increasing Charon ritual rate fr

I liked yesterday's idea when we talked about how hypa3 could work, that when sacrificing, you could get a CR buff that increases your proc chance

Maybe that could also proc after second chance, so you get summons out afterwards guaranteed?

[hearty dove]

Now that CR going through floors seems to be working it definitely feels a lot more fluid

It's not perfect, but it's getting there

On the flipside I could also improve this build

If I slotted in some oricalcum mortars for buff duration, maybe went down some crit chance and used wyrm song instead, then I could use crit amities (...)

[surreal zodiac]

looks alright

can you try fully buffing, with wyrm and wyvern speed + zerk shroom 1

[hearty dove]

Wyrm is uneeded because I already have 102% crit chance

But why do you want to see with those buffs? They're a 25% damage increase each, you can just do the math on them ;p

[surreal zodiac]

i see, welp disregard that suggestion. It still looks better than live gsh

[surreal zodiac]

I don't like math

[hearty dove]

I also find zerk shrooming for dungeons a bit disingenuous because it's not an everyday buff

But here, you can have with wyvern speed

[surreal zodiac]

idk if u guys have it in orna as well but we have a dungeon in hoa called valley of the gods. Tough dungeon cus full of mammons and zerk arisens. And that's pretty much the place where i only go all out in terms of buffing, the rest of my dgns is pretty much like this.

[hearty dove]

||See guys, some second chance is better than no second chance||

[hearty dove]

We have VotG too
But personally I don't usually run it because I don't want anything from it. Plus it's super key expensive

[subtle tusk]

looks pretty simillar for me, although im using despair cause i dont have the staff on beta

i think the temp.buffs are kind of lacking though

[long glacier]

What about the t.buffs would you change?

[subtle tusk]

id probably trade the defensive buffs for higher chances for the offensive ones

and if it was up to me id remove the attack and increase the magic further, but odie said attack doesnt hurt so it is what it is

[long glacier]

Yes, Hybrid all the way

[long glacier]

So it's a numbers game?
The principle is fine tho?

[hearty dove]

I did often find the buffs not proccing to begin with sometimes, so maybe a bump in their proc rate would be nice. Getting them to stick can be itemised for so that's probably fine

[subtle tusk]

yeah this current iteration i really feel is a numbers game at this point

my 2 requests are higher CR proc chance and higher proc rate of the buffs

and i would be fine if it shipped like that

idk if you saw the discussion kaine but we also talked about hypa 3, imo that would be absolute peak and i would love it so id like to hear you and other people's thoughts

the gist of it is that it kills 5 of your summons and deals damage to everyone, but its the same amount of damage to all enemies, and it doesnt split

so you cant use it to nuke raids

and that way, if we have a higher CR rate, it could be kind of like deity's aoe apex spells, killing all your summons and the floor in dungeons, and giving you 5 chances to proc the buffs

[long glacier]

Yes saw it an brought it up in the ORN chat already.
Will add it to a propper summary later.

[surreal zodiac]

were u using a buff duration for this one? or full crit adorns

[hearty dove]

Didn't have time to readorn

So still full crit

If we do end up resorting to Despair in case of BL2 nerf, we can ditch all crit for status duration, and dump HyPa on arcane immune enemies

[hushed sedge]

You still had to rely on BL2 to push through.
That's not good imo, GSH kit should still be usable after a 2nd chance.
John, in your opinion, what would you have done in that same situation with only base classes's skills + GSH unlocked?

[hearty dove]

Not sure why you'd specifically want me to not use all the tools at my disposal

But probably Summon Dead for 3 spawns on the field real quick, or Panacea if I felt comfortable taking a hit

[long glacier]

John what would you've done without your 2nd chance?

[hearty dove]

[hushed sedge]

Because those tools aren't always available and not all players have them

[hushed sedge]

Kaine I'm not against having a second chance passive. I'm just trying to highlight the fact that it may non fit a lower end kit and just feel as a RIP+1 turn

[surreal zodiac]

if full aoe hypa is still up on the table, can we instead just put it on beithir staff? and then come up with a new passive for it or something that way base gs or even gsa can't use a full aoe hypa. But then you'd gain the summon spell summon beithir, that way u can hypa while having beithir on your skill slot.
that way if gsa or base gs would use beithir staff they can only use the summon spell summon beithir
beithir staff got decent magic and ward
other than duo bp it really isnt being used that much, and there's barely any people who do bp duo when they have towerfall + stasis

[void portal]

I don't think we will get a beithir summon (tho i wish we get summon beithir spell) but putting a full aoe hypa in a weapon or introducing a new weapon for full aoe hypa is a good idea.

[long glacier]

Sorry, i felt funny for a moment😅

I get you, really.
It's just that we had multiple discussions about it, got a +5% HP per dead summon from 2nd chance adjustment and a statement from Odie
#1410277906935975976 message
prefering how it works atm.

I just think the topic is done for this beta.

[subtle tusk]

any updates on where we are heading? I like the changes but atleast comparatively gsh still underperforms against all mage classes

Currently that is

[hearty dove]

It does also underperform compared to GSA fwiw

[long glacier]

Is this due to the class or its gear?
After all Yel gear pretty much made Ang possible for GSA.

[dusk sandal]

Class

The temp buff passive was needed to compensate for the lack of pets. Gsh still doesnt really have anything on top of that, like other classes have crit poise, staying power, hm3 etc. Or do you disagree?

[hearty dove]

Hard question to answer. GSA was pretty bad at efficient horde clearing before the benefits to spreading with Yelb gear, but that's something we always knew about right? We always knew we wanted better buff spreads. And when we got it, it felt nice.

GSH like pie said, kinda has the bare minimum to be compared with other classes. That could be compensated with gear, but I'm not sure what you'd need on the gear to make it comparable yknow?

[long glacier]

So we know we need summon upkeep, t.buff upkeep and one more HyPa target.
If we get that it feels nice?

Smth like positive status duration +10% per Hydrus stack?

An accessory that automatically spawns a skeleton every turn?
For all classes ofc.

Summoner only gear with Chaine chance.

[hearty dove]

I'm sure there's plenty of answers that would be good enough to be honest

||FknChaine||

[long glacier]

I'll leave it like that cause it's funny

[hearty dove]

Positive status duration would be good, increased proc chance would be good, hitting more targets would be good, more autosummons would be good

We can kinda already gear for the former which is nice

Though one can make the argument that if that has to come from gear, then we're just a worse deity ara per example.

They have the t.mags, and they have a pet for block chance, DC and/or ward upkeep
We have the t.mags and DC

Their t.mags proc on all AoE hits (ie brilliant lights)
Our t.mags proc exclusively on Blood Pact, which does not always hit all targets

They have innate buff duration
We'd have to gear for our own

The rest is fairly comparable.

Apex charge passive is similar to the souls passive, both have second chance, and steadfast is getting removed from dara anyway

[long glacier]

I agree that it still needs smth.
I just don't exactly know what the class should bring by itself and what should be aquired by gear.

[surreal zodiac]

hydrus pact to hit 3 enemies even at 2 summons and increased cr. After that we can try and solve the remaining issue or shortcomings with items.

leaving it as is wouldn't really help gsh that much, it'll underperform still. Im pretty sure getting some items and reworking some items would be nice to synergize it to gsh's play style. Giving it more performance boost and not suck a lot in supposed contents where it should shine.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, i just don't want it to be another bl2 spam class. Bl2 is a fantastic aoe clear dont get me wrong, but if i wanted to do is just bl2 spam all day i'd actually just play heretic or deity for it. I wanted to play around more on hypa and if possible to get a full hypa aoe through items like 2h weapon for gsh hypa.

anyways i agree with what john and others said in this thread about gsh

[subtle tusk]

Nah method man I don't think the BL2 arguement is valid

Literally all classes use it, just because it's the best

That's how orna is

I don't think it would be fair to make a class exclusive aoe option comparable to the overall best one that everyone uses

In my opinion, things that need to be changed in order for gsh to be shipped are

• Hydrus pact 3, saccing 5 summons to hit 5 targets( nerfed in raids)
  • would make dungeons more fluid
  • similar to deity apex, buffing us and clearing the floor
• Increased CR proc chance
  • Currently CR feels way too slow for dungeons, it should either be a proc that's per enemy hit like buffs are(possibility to proc multiple times in a turn) or should have wayyy increased chance, I'm talking atleast 100%(ofc this can be nerfed in PvP)
  • Another option suggested here which I love is a CR buff, this can be just another buff from the passive buff pool that makes CR guaranteed, basically what I advocated for in the last point, but not that out of the box if that feels too strong (I don't think it would be too strong, in fact maybe you can have both)
• Improved PvP AI that doesn't spam summons, I know this might not be that important for the rework, but one of the reasons I swapped to deity from GSH was because both PvP defense and dungeon content was just underpowered, and no matter how much we change the class, if it stays afk in PvP it's never going to have a chance, just a simple ai change of maybe using hypa when you have 2 summons would be good enough maybe

[pine garnet]

Hear me out, what if:

• GSH has a passive where whenever it sacrifices 2 Summons, they get stored as another 1 summon where it gets re-summoned if there are slots available in the field or the field has 0 summons left. We could get like 10-15 max souls stored to be used.

*can synergize with HyPa I/II, Hydrus passive, we can get a constant generation of summons instead of relying solely on Auto-summons. *

[dusk sandal]

I agree with this. But even then Im not sure if it would be enough to compete with other classes. We'd have to see

[twin salmon]

What do you think in which direction GSH is going/should be going (for me it is not entirely clear yet):

1. HyPa instead of BL2: Hydrus pact is sustainable and you wipe most floors with it - which probably needs (much) more CR.
2. Apex-Style HyPa: HyPa is used to charge GSH passive (like apex) and once charged, you mostly spam BL2 - and HyPa rather on specific hard floors (given it is stronger than BL2) or because of fading t.mag buffs.
   (My general impression is that many ideas have rather 1) in mind, whereas the current implementation is more towards 2). )

[subtle tusk]

2 for sure, way more realistic

[subtle tusk]

I feel like this is too complicated of a system to implement where just increasing CR has the same result

[devout garden]

I don't think 1 is feasible, tbh

We would need way too much CR to be able to use it fluently in every floor

[surreal zodiac]

yeah im probably just fatigued with bl2 and that's just probably me. Anyways I'll take anything atm as long as gsh is good and will not underperform. I just want it to perform as good as we want to and not be disappointed on how underwhelming it might be.

[pine garnet]

In my my mind, it's either this or 55% Auto-Summon with a failsafe of 80% if there are no summons left on the field.

HyPa II is capped at 3 targets right?

If HyPa III is introduced with 5 targets, then the problem would be: What if it some evaded, some survived due to 2nd Chance, and have it enough summons to match.

Max I faced in a horde dungeon I think is 4, idk if you guys fought 5 or 6.

[twin salmon]

If we agree that HyPa is rather Apex-Style with BL2: Wouldn't you rather use BL2 (or another spell) instead of HyPa if you don't have enough summons on the floor (= your apex isn't fully charged)?

[subtle tusk]

ye ofc

[subtle tusk]

Current gsh with even 100% CR would underperform ngl

[pine garnet]

It should not be like apex-style right? I think it's better to have it have it's own identity.

[subtle tusk]

It's just for the sake of comparison, ofc it has it's own identity, I'm referencing apex just because that's a powerful skill that charges up between floors

[pine garnet]

So HyPa III (if given) is way stronger than Yel AoE, but has requirements?

[subtle tusk]

yel aoe meaning BL2?

[pine garnet]

BL2 and Drag Sweep

[devout garden]

Higher damage (and prob pen) but it consumes summons

So it can’t be sustained properly

[subtle tusk]

We're talking about a potential hypa 3

[devout garden]

Ah, then yeah

[pine garnet]

This could provide the fuel.

[subtle tusk]

But yes it would be stronger than BL2, but not spammable like it is

[subtle tusk]

CR just being 100% chance or maybe proccing per enemy hit would be a way easier way to do the exact same I don't get why we need to add a new system

[pine garnet]

Wait, it should not be spammable?

[subtle tusk]

I mean it doesn't exist so that depends on what type of spell we are talking about, I was more under the impression that we can't have hypas be spammable(or atleast hypa3)

That's why I was comparing it to apex spells

[pine garnet]

I would like it to be spammable, sounds good if it's spammable.

Since it requires mana and summons

[subtle tusk]

then we are talking about a whole other iteration of the idea

[devout garden]

Yeah, rn it’s supposed to be a mix

[pine garnet]

@long glacier what do you think? should it be spammable like BL2 or other AoE?

[long glacier]

I think it shouldn't be spamable much like other class specific full AoEs (Manyalus, Vestaga)
and need prep turns like them.
A HyPa 3 (hit all opponents at 5 summons sacced) is in line with those.
Depending CR rate i think i lean more towards supplementary gear or summons (auto summon gear, splitting summons, summons leaving behind smth after defeat etc.)

[subtle tusk]

For the record Id also like more tools for gsh over the things I suggested

More niche summons that are base-game could be added to gsh' spells

but I don't know about the gear tbh

[long glacier]

There're countless possibilities

Nekro Staff passive

• chance per kill to spawn a skeleton

[hearty dove]

Thematic, but if you put it on a weapon we can't use 2H AoE

..... that being said, if the chance is high enough, and we dual wield nekro staves, and we go DoF for extra turns, one could probably sustain HyPaing down a dungeon

[ornate nacelle]

If hypa can trigger Parting Remark..

[hearty dove]

Why would it not?

[twin salmon]

That was also my thought regarding ideas like hypa 3 as offhand skill. In the current state, it would not help so much because you mainly want to charge gsh passive for stronger BL2 (like for dara/apex)

[ornate nacelle]

My guess would be because Hypa doesn't count as summoner act..
It's like you giving buff to let's say Deity or Realmshifter and then avidity or auto deific trigger..

It's even can't get the effect of life siphon..
I mean it was supposedly summoner who get their hp recover, but it goes to summon..
I already upload the video of it in this thread..

[hearty dove]

Ah right

I'd argue that's a bug that would get fixed though lol

[devout sedge]

Yep just tried, no parting remark procc in whole dungeon

[long glacier]

You may hint me a link pls

[ornate nacelle]

I just made new one since it's pain to scrolling up..

Imo, it needs to be fixed first because it's important or maybe the most important part of gsh rework..

[subtle tusk]

For sure

[devout garden]

So, where are we rn?

[lyric fjord]

Getting November ready right now, then I’ll be coming back to this patch

[devout garden]

Perfect, thanks a lot

[long glacier]

We're here

Summary

27.10.25

About the new Hydrus passive

• ppl favoured previous iteration cause of it opening up new creative mechanics
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• increase procc rates done... more?
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• perma buffs to the pool for fluent gameplay
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What else?
CR rate increase
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• guaranteed CR procc after 2nd chance
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• less summons on the field means higher CR rate
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• CR procc chance per opponent hit/ defeated
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• HyPa 3, sacc 5 summons, hit all opponents
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• adjust gear to complement GSH
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Uh, Oh Problems?

• no CR after floor whipe fixed
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• HyPa on hit effects working for summons not the player (e.g. Life Siphon, Parting Remark)
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@lyric fjord 👆

[hot talon]

the BP in pvp scaling also needs to get looked at. the damage is very, very sad for BP unless you go full swash, which even then doesn't compare to a turn 1 300k spiked shield or ara vesta that kills a summon + you.

[devout garden]

Tbh HyPa is pretty strong in PvP, and kinda acts like CD, so it’s pretty good against SC and so

Only con is it kills your summons, really

But now we’ll have BP as a safer yet very strong pvp tool and then HyPa as the all in nuke option

So it should be good

[hot talon]

not so much in early T10. even with an arisen riftsummoner hat, my GSH is better of putting on benefactor and having fat draggo smack them than using blood pact.

It's also a bit weird in that it plays exactly like base GS with pact build, from gearing to skills. Would be nice if GSH could leverage the thief gearing thing with something like highest of attack or magic used to calc pact damage, or allowing pacts to crit so that the playstyle and gearing is distinctly different from base GS.

[devout garden]

That’s because your build is bad, ngl

If your GSH with Bene deals more damage than your pacts

[hot talon]

in pvp

[devout garden]

Yeah

My GSH with no AL is hitting for 140-150k first turn in pvp

And in the beta we actually have better stats

[hot talon]

as I said, early T10, level 226-240ish,

[devout garden]

In live*

[hot talon]

I'm sure it gets better once you hit 250, but before then it gets rough

[devout garden]

You can have the same build as me with no AL and without being 250

That’s why I tested it with no ascensions

[devout garden]

So its not really an issue with the skill itself

But with your build

And I’m pretty sure an early T10 gilga, deity and so aren’t hitting for 300k first turn either

And why did you mention “full swash” there, you meant high attack or being fragile with full mag gear and sequencer?

[hot talon]

full mag gear, with crappy defences.

[long glacier]

Maybe a screenshot would help

[dull gale]

How's this coming along.. hmm..

[hearty dove]

Odie paused a lil to put out the november update

[hearty dove]

As per this

[dull gale]

Alright, crossing my fingers it doesn't getting totally scrapped like the last time

[long glacier]

Nah don't think so.
This time around the community feedback is much, much more focused.

[void portal]

👀

[subtle tusk]

summon hype?

[long glacier]

So if we call for patchy loud caps enough, it will come?

[void portal]

probably 👀

[hushed sedge]

PATCHY (no pressure Odie ofc)

[long glacier]

After working through the thread and separating suggestions from general chatter

[void portal]

PATCHY🗣️

[subtle tusk]

PATCHY🗣️

[devout sedge]

PATCHY🗣️

[devout garden]

PATCHY🗣️

[median harness]

Maybe this will help:

[lyric fjord]

lol

Monday

[nimble relic]

Wait gsh rework gets shipped in monday?

[subtle tusk]

no lol

just a patch

[sharp rapids]

God i hope its class sprites (packs)

[void portal]

hmm??

[devout sedge]

I think he meant a new beta gsh iteration kind of patch

[void portal]

👀

[void portal]

Still waiting for patch 👀

[sharp rapids]

I heard patch monday so i was like i hope whatever is patched in includes the new class sprites and their respective packs UwU

[void portal]

i don't think that will happen 😔

[hearty dove]

Yeah odie come on, it's already barely past waking up time, just press the big release button you clearly have by your bedside table

[void portal]

it's about to be Tuesday here 👀

[median harness]

Yes but Odie is from Canada haha. It is roughly 5:25am for him

[hearty dove]

Shouldn't have lived in the wrong side of the world

[void portal]

oo

[void portal]

my bad

[median harness]

That’s how I feel with Typhoon number 4 (3?) headed right at me now 😂

[hearty dove]

Have you tried using a fan to divert it?

Or just blowing really hard

[median harness]

Grand Summoner is summoning… Grand Summoner uses Taylor Swift FAN Club

Did that work?

Wait wrong side of the world - Grand Summoner uses K-Pop Demon Hunters FAN Club

[hearty dove]

Ah yes that's more like it

[devout garden]

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1437494229294387231

There seems to be a new thread now

[long glacier]

Off we go
https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1437494229294387231