Hello, this thread is to discuss the addition of the single augment slot on 2h celestial weapons. Is this enough to make 2H play balanced? Is there more that needs to happen with celestial weapons such as skills like arrowstorm III for great bow? This can also dive deeper into the 2h playstyle and how to get these weapons feeling good for all tiers of play.
#2h Celestial weapon change
brisk sapphire
brisk sapphire
My personal feeling is that upping the augment slot limit to 8 would help give 2h a place to settle. Could help make up for the nerf of steady Prometheus hands where as DW just uses lost art with fero eyes for that.
trail crag
for 2H if you take the scythe, it's 42% on weapon + 20% wyrm + 20% realmstrike + 5% base + 5% bloodshift, you would need 2 ashen for 100% or none ifyou have 2 riftrogue. it's still a x6.2 crit multiplier in RS with 1 crit amity.
west stream
the extra ~10-15% from an augment certainly helps make them more relevant than without this change.
I'm still hoping for 2h ability changes for many/most of them to make them really take off and compete with the 1handers better.
trail crag
IDK the oof hand ability, what are they for greatbow and scythe ?
brisk sapphire
Great bow gets defend
trail crag
arrowstorm 1 on greatbow could be good thing
west stream
could possibly see... one more aug slot? 7 instead of 6? 8 seems too high given the power per augment. 🤔
with a better 2h ability that may not be necessary.
brisk sapphire
7 would be fair as well. Gives some room for adding other augments
trail crag
will do the math real fast for several number of slots for prom hands
brisk sapphire
Removing riftrouge and crit augs from the topic and looking at other augments, it can open up some possibilities for a fun playstyle
trail crag
you can't remove riftrogue of the topic, it exists
brisk sapphire
For instance the hybrid offense steady hands of Selene are extremely good for beo and diety, would like to see them get a chance to shine
It's an event item that not everyone is likely to get
trail crag
For instance the hybrid offense steady hands of Selene are extremely good for be...
off topic but I play hybrid deity on live and full buff with DC and att+++, warrior's pavane only hit for 600K at 8000 att stat, that's not comparable to crit damages
those are the crit multiplier after the nerf (for reference rs 1 amity 5 prom was x8.7 before nerf)
waxen fable
could possibly see... one _more_ aug slot? 7 instead of 6? 8 seems too high give...
I agree that six slots is too low, and that maybe 8 is too much. A bit more of base crit chance would be welcome in the weapon
Maybe a 4% more
If one of the objetives of the balance was to spread the use of more late skills apart from ultima
Lets think chackram, with 10%
1% base + 10%chakram + 4%base celestial weapon + 36% from 6 prom hands + 20% wyrm
That makes 71% with no ashen
And needing 7 to 8 pinions to full crit
With just one more slot (6) we go down to 5 to 6 pinions
And a small increase to base crit, to avoid more buffs coming from augments
We can reach a range of 4 to 5 ashen pinions
Other alternative would be to not to decrease so much the crit chance of the augments to maybe 7-8%
night gulch
Hello, this thread is to discuss the addition of the single augment slot on 2h c...
Its not nearly enough, 2H was struggling severely since the Towers came life, now its basically killed for meeles.
night gulch
Maybe a 4% more
Augments need either be set to 10% or the augments of 2H weapons would need to up some stats by a fixxed percentage, including crit, but maybe not special effects like more crit damage and stuff.
2H means youre probably slightly stronger with 2 atrev then a dual wielder, but you lack flexibility. More adornments or adornment stat buff if put in 2H weapons
Because the slightly stronger is not the case after prom adornments exist now
waxen fable
I see more difficult to implement the better augment bonus in 2h rather than just more augments
night gulch
It is. But it also will bring a better balance. Efficiency or convenience, you rarely have both in development
brisk sapphire
Well if you're DW and you put two lugus on, there's no comparison. 2 trevs is more consistent by far but nothing compared to when you get lugus going
waxen fable
Augments need either be set to 10% or the augments of 2H weapons would need to u...
Even with 8-9 crit chance in prom hands could be reached similar crit chances to a quatvanga or aegir staff
night gulch
Well if you're DW and you put two lugus on, there's no comparison. 2 trevs is mo...
I still find 2 trev will yield more damage in the same time more often then lugus
brisk sapphire
Base stat increase seems like an immediate alleviation to some of the frustration but not an actual solution
night gulch
Lugus is for dualwielders. trev is much better for 2H
brisk sapphire
I still find 2 trev will yield more damage in the same time more often then lugu...
It really depends. Are you using gear that will make positive effects last longer? If so then lugus still wins out
If not then yes 2 trevs is keeping up
waxen fable
I still find 2 trev will yield more damage in the same time more often then lugu...
I agree, sometimes lugus doesnt proc at all, however, with temp bonus amities they can become more useful
night gulch
It really depends. Are you using gear that will make positive effects last longe...
50% duration vs 40% crit, the crit still wins in the long run
brisk sapphire
For amities sure
night gulch
I agree, sometimes lugus doesnt proc at all, however, with temp bonus amities th...
They do still not reach up at all
brisk sapphire
There is the new armor that has the effect built in as well
night gulch
You would need to sacrifice so much for 2 Lugus with 2H it will be a negative in the end
waxen fable
One good thing of double trev is that they increase m1 a lot
While lugus only increase damage after
night gulch
Anyway im going to cry on my birthday, excuse me ya'll. This balance patch is a disaster and i cant tell myself it will have a positive effect for the game in its current state.
brisk sapphire
I currently run 1 Trev 1 lugus, crit amity, att gear and raider for my maximum damage output. It's the best loadout for raids I've used yet.
Happy birthday! 😭
waxen fable
It is still in beta, lot to be tested and balanced, there are still road to go
brisk sapphire
The 2 trevs lags behind by about 800k per hit when critting.
brisk sapphire
It is still in beta, lot to be tested and balanced, there are still road to go
I hope this at least sparks NF to look at 2h overall.
waxen fable
Yeah, i really like the 2handed play
night gulch
- Realm has potential to become the new summoner depending on the new passive
- Beo is the new common enemy because of the severe buffs
- 2H got shredded even more
- The meta adorn didnt get adjusted but put in a state where its still mandatory but so difficult to build with its frustrating
- PvE content got harder which is a direct punch to anyone who farms now and tries to catch up with the big boys
brisk sapphire
Same. Even though my DW setup is technically better.
Well, I wouldn't say pve got harder. It got a ton easier then it got less easier
But yeah for people under 50al you definitely feel it
Hopefully an AL cap will make that gap smaller
night gulch
Any negative adjustment to clear speed will negatively effect a game build on what orna is build on. It will further the gap, the rich get richer faster and the low get rich slower.
night gulch
Hopefully an AL cap will make that gap smaller
Asc cap will lead to mass deletion of long term players cause they grinding countless hours just to get it taken away from them.
That is not a healthy way to balance a game.
brisk sapphire
Asc cap will lead to mass deletion of long term players cause they grinding coun...
They knew it was coming from the start though
night gulch
They knew it was coming from the start though
This is not true & not an excuse for a bad design decision.
brisk sapphire
It was mentioned some time ago that it would eventually be capped at AL50, then plans changed somewhere and they let it go on for a bit longer than anticipated I think
night gulch
You have a competitive video game and you attack the high ups solo, this is by far the worst thing you can do as developer.
brisk sapphire
Ascension was never supposed to be the endgame loop, the overhead of scaling the top players would be at would be untouchable
night gulch
Embrace their effort & give others an easier chance to catch up.
Not just punch them so they fall off.
brisk sapphire
I agree that they shouldn't be 'punished' for their investment, a soft cap then hard cap would ebb that concern.
night gulch
Thats what you do if the playerbase should fear you, not adore you.
brisk sapphire
Having an infinite scaling level would be absolutely bananas
night gulch
And NF definitely doesnt want to be EA.
brisk sapphire
How do you balance raids around that?
night gulch
Having an infinite scaling level would be absolutely bananas
We have! :) and its fine to have. Give people a real reason to grind.
night gulch
How do you balance raids around that?
You dont. Why would you?
brisk sapphire
Because the rich get richer faster
night gulch
The rich get rich faster because the PvE content got harder now so the only people who feel this are the lower end.
The rich didnt get rich faster, they still had to farm their hungry ascension costs.
brisk sapphire
A lot of them can already kill amorri in seconds, so it wouldn't be much different, but making what's supposed to be among the difficult content, literally trivial wouldn't be fun for them I think
night gulch
They just invest more time and use that time more efficiently.
night gulch
A lot of them can already kill amorri in seconds, so it wouldn't be much differe...
If it wouldnt be - why are there so many hogh asc players?
brisk sapphire
They got bored waiting for towers
night gulch
Those people simply couldve chosen a different game. But they didnt.
They wanted this. They wanted to be even stronger.
To show everyone else what they can do.
Thats a fundamental pillar of ornas economy and competitive nature.
Competition is about to show how good and strong you are.
Which is 100% valid in a game where you cannot buy progress at all.
The entire design philosophy gets basically deleted with an ascension cap and the real legends will leave.
brisk sapphire
Getting back to the topic of 2h changes, I would like to see some potential updates to them in the future.
night gulch
I stead orient ascensions around the highest one reached yet and make the costs for lower ones a tiny bit less for every level difference.
night gulch
Getting back to the topic of 2h changes, I would like to see some potential upda...
2H needs a fundamental rework.
brisk sapphire
I agree
night gulch
It was totally fine before Celestial Weapons tho.
Atrev was the balancer.
Now... Theres no balancer.
brisk sapphire
It still lagged in utility, Ymir brilliant feathers helped a ton with that, but still didn't keep up. Plus DW casters and sequencer is untouchable for 2H staffs
night gulch
The strength of most weapons stem from adornments. Giving us the same amount of adornments as a one handed weapon is not enough. Giving us 20% more is not enough. There is nothing which balances inbetween.
brisk sapphire
Either there needs to be a nerf to DW and reducing the shared stats even more or a buff to the base stats of 2h for the majority of content.
I'm hoping for the latter
cold zenith
Hopefully an AL cap will make that gap smaller
Did they say there were implementing an AL cap?
cold zenith
It still lagged in utility, Ymir brilliant feathers helped a ton with that, but ...
Yeah, not putting a weapon skill on the 2h celestials seems like a massive oversight
steep widget
Did they say there were implementing an AL cap?
Not confirmed, just considered.
not going to happen during this patch either - it's a later thing.
cold zenith
Yeah, I saw them asking about it on the survery. I just didn't know if they said anything beyond that.
solemn raft
I just want to be a warrior with 2h Axe but 1h items are always better. ;((((((
raven token
I think there should be a better variety of 2h weapons rather than considering adding more and more slots. All the two handed celestial have a ton of their power budget in ward, when not every build wants massive amount of ward and in most cases one handed plus a good shield would outperform.
austere solar
Better two-handed weapon skills would also be nice, most are pretty weak/niche
pure canopy
Yeah, I want to love 2h. The idea is very fun to me. But compared to my 1h+shield or 1h+1h loadouts, 2h is just doing worse on purpose. I feel like it has a lot of potential, but it's not quite there yet.
leaden bear
2h in general could use some love still. I absolutely agree that 2hd celestials would be better but not overkill with 7 slots rather than 6. Maaaaybe some stronger baseline stats too but not by much. The issue is there still isn't enough 2hd weapons (especially for mage) that are viable enough to really compare to.
austere solar
2h weapons are a relatively "new" scenario, in addition to not having many options to compare they are not so good compared to 1h weapons, bringing more options and giving them a little love would be a good idea, especially when creating new ones builds since they can be used in several classes
But it's one step at a time, one more slot in two-handed celestial weapons was already a very nice upgrade, although it was supposed to be like that from the beginning.
night gulch
But it's one step at a time, one more slot in two-handed celestial weapons was a...
the thing is: 1 Slot was enough with how the adornments were, but now they got severely weaker which means we need more slots to competensate for 1H Celestial + Normal weapon.
because the one gem doesnt give us enough power to compete with the dual wield scenario anymore.
austere solar
because the one gem doesnt give us enough power to compete with the dual wield s...
I agree and we don't even need to test to reach this conclusion. But my point is that we had a starting point, and that's fine, not the weapons themselves.
cold zenith
I think this issue is getting conflated with the promy hands issue.
I agree that this and the promy hand nerf are separate issues, but it disproportionately affects the people who use two-hander celestials and promy hands
For some classes , this is a playstyle issue - but for certain classes (like gilgaursa) it's not so much a choice.
So, it can feel like certain classes get corralled into a certain playstyle (i.e. using a two-hander crit loadout), make the obvious only choice they can for augments, and then get penalized for making that choice.
uncut kiln
It already called for a hybrid 2h here?
clear steeple
Gimme my Two-Handed Guitar, that I can bash Mammon's skull with it !
