Valhallan Changes

[umbral glade]

he is the seer

[elfin rampart]

Stats, ofc

[umbral glade]

his lore is vision related

[manic nimbus]

I feel that NF point of view is solely focused on bestial bonds at this point

[ivory birch]

I see your point about unique effects and their potential. I'm approaching it from a thematic/design care standpoint

[polar locust]

That would be interesting ngl

[elfin rampart]

This. Odie has redirected any proposal to "Why not Bonds?"

[ivory birch]

okay, but why does he deserve a bond and not everything else? would ever boss as a pet get an effect? ra's just a boss

[umbral glade]

"thematic reasons" is legit the reason for a seer Ra pet with high vision distance bonds

[manic nimbus]

Theres no point in theorizing other options to be fair

[ivory birch]

that's not my point

[polar locust]

Like a kill counter on pet in some way, showing how much is needed to evolve lel

[stoic epoch]

Dude, lorewise all Beo's should be slinging power ballads a la Scanlan from Vox Machina.

[umbral glade]

well the reason is because its a game and it would be a snoozefest if everything is the same

[umbral glade]

like, you know, Verse4?

[polar locust]

If this was added, i would have some reasons to use other pets

[manic nimbus]

There could be a bond for that

[stoic epoch]

Yeah, except make Verse good

[polar locust]

A upgrade pet bond kinda type?

[umbral glade]

unique bonds could be just that, unique. you dont need a reason to make something unique in a video game

[manic nimbus]

I was joking

🤣

[ivory birch]

so with this reasoning everything should get that treatment, no? and that's exactly the issue. Odie said that was out of scope, but picking and choosing followers for unique effects isn't super justifiable

[polar locust]

Yeah i know

It's too unrealistic

[manic nimbus]

They want us to focus on bonds and there is no way out of that it seems

But we dont really know what their plan for bonds is

Or what are the limitations

We only know theres "potential"

[umbral glade]

i get your point but honestly, i dont jabe a objective argument to "counter" it, i just think unique bonds for unique pets are FUN. i dont need another reasoning. I like fun

[polar locust]

I would like to know the future plan and limitations, then we could give more feedback about it and discuss

[ivory birch]

it's cool potential, but "family" is so arbitrary as a classification. Phoenix is absolutely not an animal in any remote way that a bear is one

[umbral glade]

180 unique bonds are not a possibility, that's fine , but a few of them IS a possibility

[manic nimbus]

And so if thats the case, my hydrus looking infinitely more appealing than my auriga

[polar locust]

Because now, we are just giving theories of what can happen to improve pets damage in general

[last bane]

BeoA+Tamer has Bound4 actually, so on 4th bound there can be something like universal passive to boost damage of all pets

[umbral glade]

bond4 does not exist

tamer and class does not stack

it takes the highest level

[stoic epoch]

I mean, if unique effects are out of the question just give us like 200% raid damage and call it square for now

[elfin rampart]

it could be a bond

[polar locust]

But what would it be? A skill?

[ivory birch]

it'll last a few months when player damage gets a few more modifiers, then beo falls behind again =/

[elfin rampart]

Bond3: Unlocks bond 4

[polar locust]

For that type of level is the only thing i can imagine, some unique skill

[last bane]

it can be inside BeoA as passive to all pets

[stoic epoch]

Bond 2: Return of the Bond

[ivory birch]

beo's entire issue is that player scaling is continuously developed but followers (and summons) are rarely ever

[manic nimbus]

And bonds wont solve that :/

[ivory birch]

see: any large amity effect, any large augment effect 😅

[polar locust]

We need a pet balance patch probably

[manic nimbus]

Just a cute addition

[stoic epoch]

Then let pets scale with gear

[polar locust]

Or an update that brings more things to do with pets

[ivory birch]

but then Beo loses its identity, right?

[stoic epoch]

Yes

[manic nimbus]

Id hate that

[stoic epoch]

I don't know man

Fux and Inarin are my idea people

[ivory birch]

half of beo's schtick is different gearing, or so I thought. if it just gears like any other player damage class, but with different text relating the actions then what's the pt

[umbral glade]

shove a axe down the throat of my bird so it deals more dmage

[elfin rampart]

・We need amities to affect pets.
・We need +x pet damage (not %, solid value) in grindable and upgradeables weapons.
・We need the pets to have increased Crit chan and Crit dmg
・We need to control where the pet lands attacks.

[manic nimbus]

I dont wanna have to feed and pet and trim the pets fur every 5h to give him a boost

[ivory birch]

beo's gotta have something to do with the actual mechanics of Beo, so the AI is the first place to do that

[polar locust]

Why? I might have writed wrong, like an update to stats of pets at least

[stoic epoch]

If it was a mini game I'd do it in a heartbeat

[manic nimbus]

No, fishing is enough pain

[stoic epoch]

Brush the pets fur / whatever

[manic nimbus]

🤣

[elfin rampart]

If Odie wants to make all that a bond, fine by me, but thats what we need.

[polar locust]

I don't want that either

[manic nimbus]

Ahh

[summer gulch]

I remember when orna didn't do human pets

[ivory birch]

and also amity/gearing effects that can affect followers that isn't just +12% follower stats. not necessarily the same effects as player effects, but if it's going to be mutually exclusive as it is now, then give unique effects to followers

[polar locust]

I would like more amities that affects pets

[summer gulch]

But then jotun pets happen ed

[umbral glade]

15%

[ivory birch]

13%, final offer

[umbral glade]

common man, dont talk us down

[ivory birch]

or what? you'll deal damage? haha okay

[umbral glade]

remember that equipping a 57% pet stat celestial lute is a 20% dmg increase

[manic nimbus]

I think im gonna wait for NFs statement on these bestial bonds and what is truly the plan (if theres any)

[umbral glade]

hey now, i am using chained shield so be ready

[elfin rampart]

yeah, having +60% pet stats in a celestial does neglectable changes in our dmg

But hey, give +10% crit chance and +10% crit damage to everyone else

[polar locust]

Same

[ivory birch]

bonds are cool, improved AI interactions is good. they're unique effects to beo that keeps the spirit of the class. i think it's (somehow) not apparent just how behind pet/summon damage is behind player damage

[manic nimbus]

And multipliers! Ahahaha

We get additives 👌

Yum

[umbral glade]

hey, we also got valhallan dissonance give us a stat boost when redlining

thats a good change

[elfin rampart]

Remember that player faction align? Well, your pet doesnt give a care about it

[manic nimbus]

And according to odie, beo is not that far behind class usage, i recall reading a comment

[ivory birch]

if summon/pet stats are to remain additive (which is theoretically ok -- same as att/mag), then other multiplicative effects need to exist in tandem like it does for player effects

[polar locust]

With that would be a good dmg increasing

[manic nimbus]

So im unsure if NF is aware

[umbral glade]

gilga and beo are the lowest usage t10 classes

but gilga is much more used for raiding

[manic nimbus]

I know that

[stoic epoch]

No, that wasn't the quote

[manic nimbus]

But the point is.. does NF want to change that?

[stoic epoch]

Beo's just not the least used class

[ivory birch]

the reason beo's not as underused as expected is probably because y'all are stubborn 😛

[elfin rampart]

Beo doesnt have to shine at all game's content.
Well, where does it shine then? At level 225 where your pet stats are at max?

[ivory birch]

and I admire you for it. captain and ship vibes

[manic nimbus]

We driving the numbers up 🤣

We should stop playing beo and just go deity meanwhile

Ahah

[ivory birch]

well let's not get into that

[stoic epoch]

Nah

[manic nimbus]

Beo is at its best between level 225 and 226

Peak beo

[stoic epoch]

I'm ride or die until Odie himself tells me it'll never get better

[manic nimbus]

Then we can wave bye bye to other classes as they grow stronger and stronger

[umbral glade]

i just dont like player damage classes in any game and beo was the only one when i reached t10 and i dont like summoner now

[ivory birch]

hopefully beo and summoner's builds that don't emulate player-damage classes become better and comparable soon

summoner rhada still absolutely blows, but it's not really being looked into because of the other stuff summoner's got going on

suffers in similar ways to non-h beo

[umbral glade]

bonds being a utility driven passive while the damage we lack is outsourced to gear and basic passive skills could be an angle to tackle this

so you pick pets for a utility bond

or pick the less utility heavy but dmg focused pet

[ivory birch]

fun fact: Beo/A's double-act can be thought of as a comparable thing to Realm/Heretic's increased crit multiplier

except one of those effects is a dedicated passive and the other is not

[umbral glade]

dbl act is a great multiplier

but, i said this before many times, we are gated behind more layers of RNG than other classes

we need a pet to rng target select and to rng select a move

[elfin rampart]

just a reminder that you have a 75% chance to not get that Great multiplier. PER TURN.

[ivory birch]

one would hope smart AI helps with at least one, if not both of those areas

[umbral glade]

which then can rng crit (which we can not increase much) and then can dbl act rng

thats 4 layers of rng to hit a focus target for max damage

while other classes have 0-1 (crit)

you could argue sequencer quick cast beign another

[ivory birch]

well, that's not necessarily true 😅

sequencer effects and (now) avidity exist

[cursive onyx]

Hello, question that is sort of related, but not entirely. Apologies. The Ashen Phoenix got a nerf on how often it uses DC, correct?

[ivory birch]

sometimes, yes

[umbral glade]

our benefit is that we can fully commit our time to defences will still dealing similar damage

[stoic epoch]

I can see why he'd come to the pet class chat though

[elfin rampart]

Wrong channel. We dont use that pet in here, aside from BeoH

[ivory birch]

I'm not sure how much randomness in damage variance is a factor for overarching balance decisions*

[umbral glade]

all of the rng layers i described could have (somewhat) easy fixes thou

[cursive onyx]

I couldn't find another thread that would be any better and figured general isn't the place. As I said, apologies.

[ivory birch]

beo's got some variance, but one could argue that the AI's skill and target choice are "part of the experience" -- offloading that aspect of gameplay to an AI rather than self-selected

so i don't know if they're problems to be fixed

[elfin rampart]

Not trying to be mean, at all. Its just that, we really wont have an answer here. Cheers

[ivory birch]

if you could perfectly choose your pets skill and target choice, is that not just doing those actions yourself? hence.. not beo.

[umbral glade]

move selection: more influence of smart AI on them
targeting: a skill which would mark an enemy either passive or actively
dbl act: increase chance, lower damage of second cast

crit: make items influence our pets more

[umbral glade]

yes, its part of the fun, until it wrecks your fights by not working out

i am not saying it should be removed completely, but giving us tools to handle it better would be a good choice

[ivory birch]

one would hope the reason for picking a pet class is having your pets Do The Stuff, rather than optimal play. maybe a separate topic though

[stoic epoch]

That's a fair point, but when the tradeoff is suboptimal play and poor scaling you get what we've currently got

[elfin rampart]

The problem is, its not Doing The Stuff

[ivory birch]

yeah, tuning preference is good. calls and smart AI should do good jobs of that. calls are arcane in wtaf they do (and why do they fail?), and smart ai could/should have more impact on better choices (damage output, res/imm/weak)

[umbral glade]

as i said, i dont mind rng, its just those fights where every opponent was at 10% hp while i was nearly falling over from tanking 3 anubises and a fallen heretic in a f47 tower

and fjalar kept evasive striking

[ivory birch]

oh yeah I agree completely. I'm just thinking of ways to keep the spirit of the class but without it being hot dog water strength

[elfin rampart]

Can we all agree on waiting for Odie's reply on what are his plans after all the feedback for our Damage?

Outherwise, we will just keep going on and on over the same stuff

Without tackling the main issue

[ivory birch]

I think direction from the team would help us to structure feedback and discussions, ye

kinda just saying the things that's been said over the past year or two atm. at least i am

it's just not been said in specifically this (beta) context, but it has all been said

[elfin rampart]

Dont worry, this year is our year

Everyone will drop their class and come join the Valhalla

[umbral glade]

we can do the thing that players in maplestory korea did and only spam ●▅▇█▇▆▆▅▄▇ (as in, lying down, not doing anything else) when they got upset with the direction of the game

which would not help at all

but i found it to be funny

[ivory birch]

the crazy days when people unironically swapped to beo for amorri because she was tough when first introduced

[umbral glade]

beo had that juicy dragon immunity

[elfin rampart]

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE FEEDBACK/ DIRECTION

[ivory birch]

you could build defences safely and still maintain damage, which is why it was good. dragon immunity was great too, but not the only reason

beo theoretically still does that, but "building defences" is completely irrelevant so rip beo

[umbral glade]

true words

[elfin rampart]

BTW, Can we get purchasable pet skins in the store?

[umbral glade]

maybe the true beo buff is to make enemies strong again

[elfin rampart]

They will be 20% stronger, but its because right now, even an AutoAttack from other classes uninstalls them from the database

[umbral glade]

i demanded a phoenix skin with a broken wing in a cast and some bandages

after it gets nerfed

[stoic epoch]

Walking wounded phoenix?

[umbral glade]

i also demanded a giraffe pet and its still not on the beta client at this moment

[elfin rampart]

it could be a bond

[umbral glade]

the phoenix gets back to healthy when you kill it, so just break its wings and beat it up

[stoic epoch]

Geoffrey, the Toys-R-Us Refugee Giraffe.

[umbral glade]

https://youtu.be/KQLPL1qRhn8 just look at all that power

[stoic epoch]

Odie takes his Orna millions and resurrects Toys-R-Us

[summer gulch]

I think I made this joke b4 with you but still

[umbral glade]

how could a lame creature like a chimera compete

[elfin rampart]

BeoH's Giraffe in a nutshell

[summer gulch]

This is what I said LMAO

When I first made the joke

BeoH sc ability funny to me

Just kill the pet lol

[umbral glade]

imagine a puny "god" getting neck punched by a giraffe

[stoic epoch]

The visual is quite hilarious

[umbral glade]

you going into valley of the gods

with your trusted giraffe

sitting on your questing piano, playing some lit tunes while your giraffe helicopter necks the floor

[stoic epoch]

Like something you'd see in a homebrew D&D campaign

Dude, I've always joked that Beo is just a delivery vehicle for their pet. Like you're towing a rickshaw with an angry cactus in the seat.

[umbral glade]

||https://youtu.be/w-6wGq-84Bc||

[stoic epoch]

With Istanbul (Not Constantinople) playing in the background

Try and get that out of your head for the rest of the day

[last bane]

guys, you wanna new OP pet - "Giraffe" in game?

[umbral glade]

thats just objectively the correct choice

https://youtu.be/uIquHbS3wHg look at how majestic and strong they are

[stoic epoch]

They don't sound majestic

They sound awful

Sounds like they're being strangled

[umbral glade]

thats where the questing piano comes in

[summer gulch]

Questing accordian

Questing flute

Ultima zitar

[manic nimbus]

I want this

😛 would make beo raiding faster, no doubt

[umbral glade]

not enough action rate

copy paste aerial barrage

and make it aerial barrage 2

[summer gulch]

🙏 please orna gods free us beo pet users from tamer into more spec diversity, tamer locks us into one style of play and I cry bc I want to zerk or inq along side of pet dmg.

😔

[noble stag]

This whole thing happened a couple patches back

Beo used to be even more reliant on tamer, so they patched it

[summer gulch]

Yea ik

But I still feel I need tamer as a pet beo in pvp

[noble stag]

You guys think it needs even more of a buff to base pet stats?

[summer gulch]

Or I do noodle dmg

[umbral glade]

idk if pets need more base stats for tamer-less beo

i think pets need 100% chance to do something each turn w/o it

[summer gulch]

I am pro pet stats cus pet beo, but it feels so band-aide

[umbral glade]

maybe not 100, but 80+

[summer gulch]

And that not really bad

Just it's all we pet beos get

[umbral glade]

assassin can work

but way more niche than tamer

[summer gulch]

I love my assassin beo with yokai vs this dang diety who stonewalls

That build+ the dot increase shields really chunks health

[quick briar]

Don't you also have hybrid monster to work from? You can go essentially whatever class you want and take matters into your own hands, and even more with celestials

I am no fellow Beo though, so I might be wrong

[umbral glade]

thats the thing, we dont want to do the hybrid style beo

we want to do pets

pet based builds nearly require tamer for act chance to be consistent, as well as it being the biggest damage upgrade outside o niche combinations like assassin + ymir

[summer gulch]

I'm told no spec diversity is just a orna thing

And I'll admit I only play beo so I didn't understand that

"Every class is locked into a spec or become usless"

[summer gulch]

Pet beos want to do pets* and yes this

[umbral glade]

yea, "we" as in those asking for non tamer alternatives

hybrid player damage focused builds have other options

[noble stag]

Stuff like zerks and maji great meditation boost pet dmg too

Beo isn't exactly locked into tamer, it's just it's best option

Every class has one of those

[umbral glade]

yes damage boosts are available, but not having action rate to make your cactus fire of a skill every turn

is really hurting

[noble stag]

I mean beo isn't nearly as bad now as it was a couple patches back but yeah I can see that

I don't spec variety is that big of an issue compared to other classes' spec variety though

[quick briar]

So maybe lowering the DMG boost from beo's passive (and adding it to tamer) and adding pet rate to beo's passive (and reducing it from tamer) could be an idea?

[noble stag]

Basically everyone is "locked" into a main one and has the other as niches

[umbral glade]

most classes just default to oracle once they have good amnities now

[noble stag]

I mean yeah amities for GS and beo suck lol

That's not a spec issue though, more of an amity issue

[quick briar]

This way Beo tamer would have the same strength while giving more options for other DMG for non-tamer beo

[summer gulch]

Yea as I only play beo I didn't actually understand that this is how orna is in general and a whole

Ngl

Beo colored glasses

[umbral glade]

besides GS all classes have the oracle option

and at least 1 good non oracle spec

[summer gulch]

What does a pet beo oracle use anyway? Pet stat+ or also positive status 100% last longer?

Vus I literally only ever tamer

[umbral glade]

I shoulda said "besides pet based beo andGS"

[round shore]

re: specs for follower-based builds, certainly oracle could do better if there were more relevant amities.
berserker/raider for zerk access is something (gaining M2 via zerk buffs, losing M1 via loss of +55% stat).
cataphract as a defensive option is something (albeit less important nowadays with an autoward amity/autoward augments).

It's not quite as bad as it used to be where BM/Tamer was a huge stat gain and everything else couldn't really compete at all.

[summer gulch]

I still don't know what m1 and m2 is and how to check its calculations

Something about dmg and pen?

[round shore]

in this case we're talking about attack stats (which penetrate higher defenses) versus zerk multipliers that multiply the damage (after defense has reduced it).

[quick briar]

More M1, more defense penetration

More M2, more DMG (but scales less with the more defense the enemy has)

[summer gulch]

Oh I thought opposite

[umbral glade]

easy to spot with spells like frost and multi frost

multi frost gets 0'd fast

but when it doesnt, multi frost does more dmg per cast

very simplyfied

[round shore]

anyway the point being... you can outdo tamer with double zerks from the zerk spec in some cases. Lose +55% stats, gain 1.25x 1.5x damage from double zerk. though that being said, consumables exist 😅

[summer gulch]

The z3 consumable is a event though

Right?

[round shore]

chronomancer may yet be another defensive kind of spec though I haven't tested it with the new changes. turning off enemy turns is strong.
assassin was already called out for niche usage with ymir, but it similarly functions like a defensive spec.

[summer gulch]

I like chrono on my mage alt, and I sorta used it as beo for a bit. But the stats down hurt

[umbral glade]

assassin also has a niche in endless

if you want to beo endless for some reason

as sleep/stun sticks way better

[round shore]

yeah, assassin is a powerful (or, the most powerful) defensive spec for endless.

everyone that wants to go super deep in endless should use assassin for stun/sleep/freeze/forbid/blind/etc. lockdowns.

beo, heretic, realm, gs, etc.

[summer gulch]

I never got beo to work past f70 endless

[umbral glade]

its "spam sleep/stun dart and forbid" and hope you dont run into a berserk realm

[summer gulch]

Mainly bc there is no pet that does it all on pve enemy immunities

[umbral glade]

yea switching to nidhogg all the time is annoying

[round shore]

overall on the topic of specs -- I don't feel like we're that bad off for choice. tamer is strong but not so strong that the others can't be considered, and that's still talking about follower-focused.

obviously player damage beo can use all the player damage specs: swash, sequencer, oracle (with damage amities), zwei for aoe, bard/charmer for aoe.

[gentle pier]

Yep. They seem to ignore stun status.

[umbral glade]

thats were the assassin spec comes in

[hushed helm]

@summer gulch beo buff all up till 250 ward rounds. Then Berserk 3,2,1. Chuck potions. Cactus and nidhogg do the rest.

[umbral glade]

tamer is just very cookie cutter no brain

[round shore]

(assassin can reliably Forbid zerk realm, cutting its damage to 20%. then can stun it also. it's not too bad.)

[hushed helm]

Easy lvl 150 or higher

[gentle pier]

Stun status feels bad because it seems like it doesn't apply to players and NPCs the same. I'm sure I'm wrong and statistically it does. But it doesn't feel like it.

[summer gulch]

I add yeti facades to this too and cthulu prism wall

I forget bc its been a while if yeti facade is a temp thing or not

[hushed helm]

For berserk try fjalar and hope for a crit

[summer gulch]

But point

[umbral glade]

my biggest impotent came when i stopped being greedy on farm gear

and got +100 floors for it

[summer gulch]

This too ill usually switch farm to ward/stat gear at f40s

[gentle pier]

I abhor this method so much. Especially if you are trying to use DB2 and Deific Channel to buff. You calculate the health needed to survive 3 turns then get a random status effect and die.

[umbral glade]

i usually switch at 100+ when i am facing a realm or a a.gazer or something

okay i run a shield before that instead of dbl questing

[summer gulch]

Ye it's the immune to pet mobs that take me out from farm gear

Though I've been able to slot beaststrike 4 and when it crits, it crits

[umbral glade]

the new redline stat boost will be a great help for going deeper

[summer gulch]

Test it

[umbral glade]

i just stay with forbid/sleep/stun/exploit

[summer gulch]

Cus I'm live only atm

[noble stag]

Not sure if you saw my thread, but it doesn't turn off enemy turns it just delays them

[umbral glade]

i am supposed to grind great souls for my 199% fey yeti thou :(

[noble stag]

Image for reference

[umbral glade]

oh damn that looks sucky

[noble stag]

So while it sounds cool, there is literally no point in doing it lol

[umbral glade]

so you delay the fallen RS

[summer gulch]

No pressure I get the farm in live

[umbral glade]

and he just combinates you

[summer gulch]

Been pushing asc best I can

[noble stag]

This was the best example I guess

[summer gulch]

I am not going to lie

[noble stag]

But then again, I could literally just cast lacuna and then do something else and it would have the literal exact same effect

[summer gulch]

Reference vs raids seems so boring to me, bc raids shouldn't, imo, be the deciding factor or whatever example of dmg.

Hoard guants are different and then theme guants and world. It's all different from just raid pve

(And was a reason gilga Got fat nerfs is a lot of comparison was done to it v raid)

But this is a strong opinion

[noble stag]

I mean the skill is single target, raids seem like the best example

Although PvP will for sure be where this is strongest, getting multiple free pet casts usually will guarantee the win

[summer gulch]

I actually didn't see you were talking about lacuna at first, so my bad on that

[round shore]

if people want to theorycraft a potential non-tamer, follower-damage-focused offensive spec, I'm all ears.

Keep in mind that:

• it should be usable outside of beowulf in some capacity
• it should be an alternative to Tamer (and zerk/raid and oracle) as an offensive spec, not strictly better

[summer gulch]

I thought it was standard class vs raid dmf comparison post

[umbral glade]

dbl improved ward absorbation amnity oracle so we can save 2 turns on DB

ha!

[noble stag]

Turn economy pog

[round shore]

there are already lots of good defensive specs 😛

[umbral glade]

but the turn economy !

[summer gulch]

I always felt beo was the king of turn econ

But now realm is

[umbral glade]

we are above average yea

other classes have a pet buff while they do dmg, we buff will pet does dmg

[summer gulch]

Ik also strongly opinionated that he with the better turn econ, wins

My example being chess, where white side has FTA

First turn advantage

[last bane]

I need cactus with ability: "more enemies he faces - more damage he'll deal"
It would be nice conterclass to summoners

[umbral glade]

î want arisen glashtyn to be good

[summer gulch]

Oh also on the subject of FTA, I'm not trying to say it's bad in orna, or in general but like it's been a heated topic in game theory forever and every dev ever always tries to combat it

[summer gulch]

What it do now?

[umbral glade]

he speads dark weakness on enemies

and he has a aoe spell that deals dmg based on debuffs on the enemies

[summer gulch]

I might have only picked up and put it in my castle

Oh wait

There is a recent pet that literally that

[umbral glade]

yea.. thats the pet i am talking about

i want it to be good

[summer gulch]

Oh no see

I though that pet was the serpent that gives questing wepons

Same ish name

[umbral glade]

it would help if his Dark Sigil was a aoe ability

he just spreads his sigils slowly.. 1 by 1..

then uses a aoe spell

[summer gulch]

Aoe sigil when

[umbral glade]

would be great if either players has a aoe sigil spell or he does it in aoe

i really enjoy the theme of that pet

dmg based on debuffs

but we dont have a aoe debuff skill

and as i said, his sigil spreading makes him unusable in horde fights

[round shore]

the "aoe debuff" skill atm is to use a damaging aoe skill with lots of proc% gear

[umbral glade]

yea.. or just kill them with said aoe hit

[round shore]

that's a different problem 😛

[umbral glade]

dark element also gets immune'd so frequently

[split heart]

If I could offer my two cents:

Please combine the Valhallan Protection passive with the Valhallan Training and Auriga passives.

Then, please give base Beo mana siphon or recharge, and Auriga steadfast 2 or a form of tenacity.

My reasoning being that our power is being addressed, but our survivability remains lacking. Base beo especially lacks sustainability.

[polar locust]

Mana siphon in base beo would be cool

[umbral glade]

to quote odie when i said that: "that could be a neat bond"

[last bane]

But not so nessessery at all

[polar locust]

At least i wouldn't need to change setup in dungeons

[last bane]

you still can use amity to regen mana

[summer gulch]

High tenacity bond fey chimera

[umbral glade]

high tenacity would be kinda crazy but i dont think it fits beoA

[summer gulch]

But 1hp memes plus zerk

[last bane]

Just on BeoA it fits like no other

[umbral glade]

i dont question the power level

i question getting RS's core mechanic on a non RS class

[summer gulch]

Oh yea that's why I

However I can also dream

[last bane]

very simple: it's no more RS mechanic :)

[summer gulch]

I just know it's a troll suggestion

[umbral glade]

i would take Iconoclast as well if thats how it works

[summer gulch]

Make beo the real diety diet

[umbral glade]

Siphon Ward instead of mana siphon thou

[last bane]

c'mon, just use Maji spec

[summer gulch]

🤔

[umbral glade]

not gonna lie. i love restarting the game twice for each a.gazer and a.mimic in endless

especially when i get them every second floor

[summer gulch]

Iconoclast affects all stats and is on hera and vd is redline to affect all stats on beo, diety has a passive that is basically blue line and redline

How does maji do blue line on all stats

[last bane]

and what you getting by restarting game? Oo
Really, idk

[umbral glade]

swap my pet to nidhogg

re-enter dungeon

kill gazer

restart

swap pet

re-enter dungeon

[last bane]

..but you can just leave and join dungeon without restart...

[summer gulch]

I remember when odie wanted to remove the ability to leave dungeons and reenter bc it seems exploiting

[umbral glade]

that means i would need to get on my bike

drive 3km

re enter the dungeon

[summer gulch]

The backlash was huge

[umbral glade]

drive back home

swap pets, get back on the couch

[summer gulch]

Am I also the only person that builds outpost everywhere

When I need them

[umbral glade]

yea but i got 5 endless dungeons queued

[last bane]

not only

[umbral glade]

and i dont want to do them in the middle of the night

in rain

i want them on my couch

[summer gulch]

Fair

Rain sounds put me to sleep

[polar locust]

I have like 3 or 4 outposts together because of vd

[summer gulch]

I have.... like 6 is my local area and prolly 10+ outside my local limits

Always need to change pets at one point or another

[split heart]

After testing BeoHydrus, I think the Hydrus passive also needs to be reworked.

My suggestion: replace the current effect with your follower stats providing additional protection. Add follower atk/mag to player def/res respectively, at 3:1 or 2:1, whichever seems fairest.

My reasoning here is that our classline in general has no ward or defensive skills in our kits. I think this also fits thematically.

This may need to be balanced by taking away BeoH's shield proficiency, or capping our ward bonus at 100 or 200%.

This will limit the class's endless max floor potential, though, as I'm not sure defensive stats can scale as well as ward as of right now.

[last bane]

BeoH has stat up through Dragon Slayer, but i agree that he needs second lvl of this passive

[split heart]

Yeah, but dragon slayer doesn't improve survivability. Right now, to me, the class as-is feels like a glass cannon without the cannon. Like a glass machine gun, or something; it doesn't feel awful, but it also doesn't feel good.

[round shore]

dragon slayer doesn't improve survivability
it does. 1.2x def/res 🤷‍♂️

not like a huge amount, but it's not zero.

[split heart]

Fair point. I was using a tower without any ascension levels in the beta sandbox as a test, so this is a limited viewpoint.

Still, with this stat distribution (max dragon slayer), my beta sandbox character died to the first tower guardian fight.

It seemed like it should've been enough to survive more than a few turns, but without a 1 turn ward skill, it's not fun.

[polar locust]

I have like 20 in total around the roads i go, can be more idk

[arctic marlin]

Idk im only 13 ALs and im running towers with 8k + res/def. BeoH is definitely gear dependent, similar to diety but in a different way

Where its strength is in offense, im not sure how buffing its defense would balance things more.

You can still get plenty of res/def just have to build for it

[split heart]

I'm using the provided gear in the beta sandbox, so it must be the ALs? Not sure, but the gear did lack adorns

And the point would be to provide the class with enough survivability to not be so gear dependant.

In my opinion, being this dependant on gear isn't a good thing, especially when that gear is specific and rare.

[arctic marlin]

Most gear sets are niche. You dont need a huge amount of ward or defenses in most content. Really just towers and amorri

[split heart]

That's part of my issue. A fresh celestial class, which requires tower advancement to obtain, can die regularly to the first floor guardian.

Was I able to make it past? Yes. But the point is, it shouldn't be this hard. The class shouldn't have to be made playable by getting best in slot or niche gear.

[summer gulch]

I went beoA and immediately when back to beoprime in towers lol

However as I got comfortable in lower floors beoA really speeds through

[split heart]

I haven't tested Auriga in towers yet, but I feel you. I tried some damage tests with it, and it's got some nice output potential now

[summer gulch]

BeoH seems god of beo vs tower bc the 3k hp and player dmg you get as a bonus

[split heart]

I tried, see above screenshot for stats. Granted it's haphazardously geared and I was using Medusa for fun. Still, the class feels squishy. Real squishy.

I feel now, Auriga will perform better due to redline stats

[summer gulch]

If I beoH I'd lay into hybrid celestial wepon/adorns

And set up wyrms and fjallalalalr Eva strike+ beo beast strike 4

Crit go brr

[split heart]

Yeah, I need better adorns for sure. But I did make a celestial lute, though I may have used the wrong adorns.

Like I said, it's doable but the difficulty feels higher than it should be.

[summer gulch]

Allow vd to give crit stat too

[split heart]

It's also the nature of tower encounters; it's difficult to fully buff while staying alive, and sometimes the pet dies, leaving me at 75% capacity and 1 hp lol

[summer gulch]

Idk I woo first turn then set up dmg phase

Towers is p much woo or die with any class I hear

[split heart]

Haha, I mean I could be playing "wrong", that's always a possibility too

Oh, so it's supposed to be like this? I see. Then I guess it's working as intended

But yeah, sadly my beta character didn't come with woo

I had to settle for fort3 w/ divine bastion 2 lmao

[summer gulch]

Beta should have everything unlocked in terms of skills pets and gear

I heard

I also don't play beta bc I like my live version and the work I am putting in

[split heart]

Lacks woo, miasma, and other alchemist stuff

Or whatever the skill/spell building is called

[summer gulch]

Oh yea that's alchemist

[tribal coral]

For the new pet abilities with bestial bonds, can all pets that can summon something have the "more likely to succeed at summoning" passive?

[tribal coral]

Also since we are talking about passive changes, I just want to point out Valhallan classes all the way back to dragon knight (which isn't technically Valhallan) all have recharge and was part of my base play. I'm playing Hbeo so I don't think it will change but I have to say id miss it in normal beo.

[last totem]

Hydrus survives just fine in towers and can clear pretty fast too I'd say.
What you want for that is a solid crit rate, recharge is key here.

If anything I'd like to see a new hybrid skill or an adjustment for Verse IV. I mean its not bad dmg wise but the defense downs are doing nothing because it already has good pen

Also any reason why you use assassin for tower? 🤔

[tulip tundra]

Nope

[umbral glade]

BeoH does just fine in towers on live. Run a source of passive ward turn at combat start (oracle with amnity, cata) and 1 shot something with verse4 or up to 2 targets with ara vesta. It really speeds through the first half of the tower just powered by a celestial lute. The second half needs better gear/AL to keep the speed of the first half otherwise you need to swap to some more defensive play in certain fights.

Also you forgot to use ashen phoenix which is like.. bonkers on beoH (and most other classes ofc, but Beo has innate pet act)

[sick tinsel]

The problem with Assassin is that 90% of t9-10 monsters are immune to all

I don't even talk about Raids

Time Mage/Chronomancer can inflict Stasis which few monsters are immune ... like 0.01% of all monsters of the game

And that makes those spec the best debuffer spec and that's comical.

[blazing hull]

charmer is the move in tower imo, random aoe but good enough with high mag, WP can take out most mobs in 1 turn, you can lull, it give proficiency for the lute.

[sick tinsel]

Beo Hydrus already have proficiency, but I use Cataphract in case of missing some people, I don't want some Arcana troll to one or two-shot me first turn for example

Beowulf has low dex

[blazing hull]

arcane trolls are the most threatening mob in tower, can't count how many runs they ended with their infinite penetration

[sick tinsel]

Not for me, Fallen Beo killed me some times

[quick briar]

Arcane trolls have their entire power nullified by going gilga/arcanic, their normal att dmg deals almost no dmg and you are immune to everything else

[blazing hull]

cool, but i'm not gilga then useless

[sick tinsel]

Valhallan aren't Arcane immune/resistant

[quick briar]

Towers is about preparing your fights, if you can't prepare accordingly, you might pay the consequences

[sick tinsel]

Well a Fairy Ring gives a resistance, but heh, for one fight ?

[umbral glade]

i still remember fallen beo with 4 cacti :^

[quick briar]

Band of gods also give you resistance, being a quest item

[blazing hull]

preparing your fight shouldn't include change class (outside of celestials). mainly because AL and all the investment you put in you character.

[blazing hull]

it works, until unstable omnimancy decide that it's time for you to die.

[quick briar]

Then maybe the problem is of your certain power and not the power of the mob

You don't "need" to change class, you just have to defeat the enemy, everything surrounding that is either underpowered or skill issue

[sick tinsel]

Again, not Valhallan related

[blazing hull]

until we get a bond for arcane immune

[sick tinsel]

Just stack Def and Res and you will have no problem

2x 0 stills 0

[blazing hull]

i've 6500 def/res before buffs

[sick tinsel]

and they deal how much with that amount ?

[blazing hull]

5000 when equiping the res ring, the problem is that they're 4

[quick briar]

at what floor?

[umbral glade]

do people really have troubles with the trolls?

[blazing hull]

20

[umbral glade]

never thought about that fight being hard

[sick tinsel]

Easy, you can tank no problem

[quick briar]

Not for me

[sick tinsel]

I litterally tank 10-15k per hit

[blazing hull]

i don't have 50k hp

[sick tinsel]

Use cataphract

[blazing hull]

I would if it had arcane and dragon wall

[umbral glade]

well you have a problem and about 20 possible solution

[quick briar]

On top of passive regen, sure, why not?

[umbral glade]

pick one

[blazing hull]

i don't have a problem with trolls most of the time, just when my passive deside I'm weak

[quick briar]

Then there's no problem with them(?)

[sick tinsel]

I have only one problem in Tower

Meliodas Twins.

[quick briar]

Yes, being a totally RNG fight. you can enter the fight at leave it so you can reset the pets, gives you a chance of no pets in the fight.

I don't like the cheese result but it's one if there is no other option

[umbral glade]

if you have no problem most of the time and cant decide when, you have a problem in towers. you also have easy solutions, one of them being to just swap class which takes around 5 seconds

thats like saying "oh the pegasus fight kills me all the time" and refusing to swap to RS even if you have gear for it

[quick briar]

That's the ultimate "prepare your fights accordingly", and the one that most people hate despite being the most effective

[blazing hull]

only work if you've gear for that class, and you lose all you AL.

[umbral glade]

does losing AL mean anything if you immune every attack?

[quick briar]

Exactly, you don't even need gear if you are immune

[umbral glade]

gear - okay

that takes some preparation

but you should find some thief gear, upgrade it once to +10, slot normal quality adorns in

and you gucci

ONC and Fey Yeti are not class limited

[quick briar]

You can go with a lv 0 sword and a high M1 skill if you're mage with no immunity melee gear, you only need more time

[umbral glade]

so half the gear is done

[blazing hull]

if switching class was a real solution, then every talk about balance would be unnecessary because if your class underperform, just switch class... like RS complain about horde, switch to heretic...

[quick briar]

That would be the utopia of an orna player, sadly you would need exponentially more resources and time to get all the classes at the same point

[umbral glade]

big difference between 1 horde fight in a high floor tower

and general dungeon gameplay

dont you think

[quick briar]

Also, it seems that, at least around here, you don't find switching class a real solution, even though we just said the incredible efficiency it has

[umbral glade]

people always switched classes for specific fights, AMorri used to be a Beo special

[warm finch]

Oh how the turns have tabled

[umbral glade]

yea it used to be a bigger deal, back when monsters could actually fight back

[last totem]

Charmer brings you to what floor 10?
Its very slow and Not worth using afterwards.
BeoH/cataphract with ara vesta 2 is my take

[umbral glade]

or just verse4 if you dont have ara vesta

[split heart]

Why do y'all keep mentioning live? This is a beta discussion thread?

Also, assassin for pvp and defense break and debuff application. I also like apothecary

[last totem]

☝️
Beta changes nothing in that regard for Hydrus

[split heart]

??? Is this not a balance patch? Are we not trying to balance the classes? Hydrus feels bad to play without close to best in slot gear.

Which is saying the class is broken compared to other classes that don't need a heavy gear investment to function

If a class requires ascension or gear, it means that class is badly balanced. Beo and its celestials are, currently, badly balanced

[last bane]

well, if BeoO/BeoA have low requirements to gear - it's justified that BeoH has high requirements

[split heart]

What?

No, it isn't? How is that a justification? If anything that points out the inconsistency

Not to mention BeoA and BeoO still have fairly high/specific gear requirements, so your original statement isn't really true.

[last bane]

sorry. i'm bad in english :)
I mean that BeoO and BeoA don't need top gear to deal his damage, and that a good part of this classes
Instead of that BeoH needs top gear to be cool, and i think it balanced

[last bane]

Not agree, you just rising your vitality trough gear, not damage

[wicked sandal]

Briny annwyn and whatever ward gear you find to deal okay dmg isn't really high gear requirements

[split heart]

Then we disagree. High gear investment is the goal of every end game class, forcing one to suck while doing what every other class does doesn't make sense.

And since we're forced to pick (ascension levels don't transfer) it's a reasonable request to want every T10 class to be balanced to a reasonable degree.

[wicked sandal]

Tbh Hydrus arguably has less requirements to function cause it has naturally high base stats and innately has some crit and action rate

It also has really good turn one dmg, and excels in short fights

[split heart]

I tested in the beta server with a sandbox character. I recommend doing the same instead of theorycrafting using your existing, high level characters

[wicked sandal]

And did you compare them to sandbox characters of other classes then? The sandbox gear is pretty bad, most notably cause of the lack of adornments

[last totem]

You posted a screen with 20k ward, I mean do you really expect to farm towers without ever farming gear before?
Not to mention that you need to farm shards before you even get a chance to do it as BeoH 🤔

[split heart]

Yeah, test in beta. Stop theorycrafting. BeoO in beta doesn't have recharge, and has no sustainability.

BeoO makes up for this with new redline stats. This makes towers easier for BeoO and BeoA in the beta

[last bane]

People, often, come to t10 already with Appolion's armor ready for the ward

[split heart]

Again, this is with the gear the beta sandbox provided. With this gear, a new T10 should be able to clear floor 1 guardians regularly

[wicked sandal]

Sustainability it didn't really use anywhere except hard dungeons, cause healing hp is detrimental to redlining

[split heart]

They have no mana regain, so hard mode dungeons become rng

It also increases potion reliance in raids

[wicked sandal]

Diffuse ward

[split heart]

That's fine, but not a classline skill

Because then you're saying "to play beo, you first need to buy a class with diffuse ward"

[wicked sandal]

Only if you specifically want to grind hard dungeons, and is it bad to buy different classes?

Part of orna's charm is beign able to use skills from different classes

[split heart]

With ascension levels, yes

[last bane]

enough to buff pet, ward can stack through shield's bastion3, restored by amity(also mana can)

[last totem]

To effectively play any t10 you want/need to unlock other classes (for skills). Thats not a balance issue at all

[split heart]

If you die, your pet can't do anything.

Effectively? Or at all?

BeoO REQUIRES diffuse ward or another mana regen source

[wicked sandal]

It also reduces bloodshift reliance in raids, so that's not a loss per se

[last bane]

to play any class(exept gilga) at t10 you need first to buy Divinine bastion :)

[split heart]

Divine bastion is t9

Well so is diffuse ward. Fair

[last bane]

and to do your best - you need DB2, cause it ragains more ward(80%)

[split heart]

Still, the class feels lacking. No other classline feels like they lack a core aspect of their effectiveness until another classline is purchased

[stoic epoch]

Diet Beo Classic could really use Mana Siphon.

[wicked sandal]

That only delays you running out of mana, since he's talking hard dungeons that isn't really the solution he's hoping for I think

Everywhere else, chugging a pot is better sustain than recharge is anyway

[last bane]

..just look at beo as you already have all other classes(not celestials), because you'll buy them all in every way

[wicked sandal]

And pvp, if you somehow find yourself out of mana in pvp as a t10/11 I want a video recording of that fight cause idk what the hell happened there

[split heart]

I have no video, but it's happened

[polar locust]

That happens to me when i go against a T11 with like 50 ascs

[split heart]

Gilgas, Realms.

[polar locust]

Because get 0 quickly and need to buff a lot

[split heart]

Yeah, and if they have APhoenix

With DC up they 0 out sometimes

[polar locust]

Yeah that sucks, the enemy t.all3 gets my cactus or fjalar do deal 0

Low penetration 🥲

[wicked sandal]

Double edge to low hp, if you still deal 0 leave, you aren't winning that fight

[last bane]

noo, next step is DC

[wicked sandal]

DC doesn't actually increase your penetration

you will still deal 0 dmg

[last bane]

Hm, okay..

[polar locust]

Then i would easily die lol

[split heart]

This isn't a pvp strat discussion thread, though I appreciate the enthusiasm.

The idea is the beo needs help right now, if you aren't already t11 and stacked.

[last bane]

we need our gear to rise up pet's base stats .-.

[polar locust]

I usually get until they make my health low by attacking

Until there i usually have mimic and gunnr on, then put dc

And db

[wicked sandal]

I'm just saying that in most normal circumstances you don't actually need recharge that much. I'll give hard dungeons but alternatives exist.

[polar locust]

My bad

[split heart]

No no, I wasn't calling you out or anything sorry

Just wanted to reinforce my point before it got lost

Please, carry on

[summer gulch]

BeoH for hybrid monster (def/res version)

Yes ik vd

But hybrid monster too

[polar locust]

Yeah, i understood, anyways the pvp discussion isnt indicated to talk here 🙂

[split heart]

Fair enough, thanks lol. My bad still though, I worded that badly

[polar locust]

No worries at all 😅

[stoic epoch]

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1098844480334999612

For anyone that hasn't seen it

Cool changes

[polar locust]

Thanks, saw now

Didn't know they added that

[split heart]

Oooh, new kingdom control options. Cool!

[polar locust]

That features might be related with the kingdom overhaul? 🤔

[split heart]

Yeah, what a nice bonus. Wasn't expecting that until after the balance patch

They sure work hard

[hushed helm]

Just tried beoh cata endless. Died on 328 due to a mistake. But i guess its solid

Only problem is the high missrate due to a lack of dex

[wicked sandal]

wall of text incoming

Shit character limit

I think that beo passive and base stat wise is in a pretty decent spot, other than maybe the difficulty of redlining without high tenacity.
I also think Hydrus does its niche fine. High base stat monster that can hp+ward tank with recharge, strong in short content, but loses out in dmg potential to other classes once they have their combat passive in play (redline, blueline, bastille, etc.)
Base beo and auriga both have kits that lean into their intended playstyles well.
Base sits between hydrus and auriga, and can play a follower style supplemented with some of his own dmg (or the other way around. Both at once is difficult cause it's hard to invest in both aspects).
Auriga leans more heavily into follower dmg, with a larger focus on buffing and defending.

The main problem I see with base and auriga isn't that they're ill suited for their intended playstyle, it's that that playstyle (followers as a way to deal dmg) is just not very good in the current state of the game.
This mainly boils down to a few issues:

1)Lack of scaling options for followers. This has gotten particularly worse over the last year, though slightly less with this beta thanks to some of the augment nerfs. But it still remains true that celestial weapons, amities, and a lot of recent unique gear have creeped player damage very hard.
Followers can't properly make use of a lot of amities (because most of them just straight up don't work, and the few that do don't play well with the follower playstyle) and do not benefit from most unique gear passives (think bulwark, achlys souls, some of the fallen sky stuff).
That is not to say we didn't get anything at all this last year, calls and follower intelligence have helped us a bit. More ways to sustain berserk while redlining are also nice (Zaltys, regen amities, candy cane).
We also got some okay follower stat gear. It just generally feels like we don't get enough out of it.
Maybe have follower stats scale with quality, but only up to ornate (so instead of 10% always, think 5% broken, 20% ornate). This way beo has just as much incentive to hunt for good quality items like other classes do. I don't think MF/DF/GF should have higher follower stats, cause then you could just GF a broken item.

2)Follower actions. Followers being independent is both a blessing (can clear entire dungeons while petrified) and a curse (fjalar keeps spamming evasive strikes cause your diceroll was unlucky).
And while we have gotten more unique followers and more ways to influence follower actions, we still default to the consistent followers. Cause we simply can't make the other ones work well, even with calls and follower intelligence.
Followers do not seem to factor in skill/spell strength or unique effects on damaging skills/spells at all. Maybe follower AI could try to take these into account. Like Fjalar having less priority on evasive strikes when temp crit is up, and more priority on evasive strikes when it isn't.
If a follower has a mixed movepool it is useless, as we can't make followers play around gaits, and giving up a x1.5 multiplier is harsh. Lindworm is the only exception cause of how well he plays around intelligence gear.
If a follower has temp buffs, heals, debuffs (unless they play into the play pattern of the follower, like lindworm/ymir) or ward skills it is largely useless, as we need our follower to attack, not to buff. Although Skadi exists, it often doesn't do enough. And a turn where a follower doesn't attack is not only a dead turn, but also an extremely risky one.
Calls should be more efficient in what they do, and perhaps more calls should exist to help the usage of mixed movepool followers. For example Call of Gunnr/Snotra, for prioritising physical and magical moves respectively.
As a side note I would greatly appreciate if Odie could share the math on how calls work.

[split heart]

The more I test, the more scaling seems to be the issue. The problem seems to lie in the fact that each piece of end game gear lowers difficulty too much.

Meaning right now, it's extremely difficult to break into post-towers equipment. But once you do, it's too easy and invalidates other forms of content.

I think there needs to be a pve content balance patch, which I hear is coming after this. Hopefully this raises difficulty for the people already geared, but lowers it somehow for those who haven't.

I think this means gear needs to be nerfed, or base classes brought up to where gear is now. I'm not sure.

[umbral glade]

Tbh, if 10 people tell you that beoH does just fine and you are the only one saying "everybody else is wrong"..

[split heart]

I'm not saying that? And like I said previously, my testing is limited

[last bane]

I think Call-spells can be usefull by Vallhallan's before BeoA, and only BeoA must have an option inside pet sheet to manually prioritize choice of pet skills
Just like number scale: Skill marked 1 would be used more often than skill 3-5(last one)
Beo can set this only before the battle

[umbral glade]

Do you know the saying " if every place you go smells like shit, check your shoes" ?

[split heart]

And for the record, everyone commenting that Hydrus is fine seems to already be geared for the content

[umbral glade]

You said beoH is bad it cant clear floor 1 guardians

[split heart]

No I did noy

Not

I said it was more difficult than it felt it should be. Considering mediocre gearing and no ascensions.

[summer gulch]

I've a few times failed calls 6 times or more in a row as a beo.

And I feel beos should barely or never fail a call cus why??

[split heart]

Idk, I've also had chain call fails

[summer gulch]

Rng be wack 💀

[split heart]

No joke lol

[umbral glade]

Towers should be a challenge. Them being a challenge in bad gear is intended

[wicked sandal]

Calls should just be 100% chance on valhallans. The effect on them isn't strong enough to warrant them also being a coinflip

[split heart]

First tower guardian is too hard possibly. Because I made it to floor 7 with the same loadout

[summer gulch]

Yea def 100% on valhallan

[umbral glade]

At least level 2 calls should be yea

[split heart]

But again, my issue is that a celestial class was easily killed by the first floor guardian.

[last bane]

BeoH needs some sort of steadfast, it really annoying when i can't cast anything just second moove after i cast Ortanite in tower
Some sort of "unstoppable" stun is there, but BeoH must have more chance to act

[summer gulch]

It used to be not as bad fail on other classes too at that got.... crazy

[split heart]

Again, in beta, the sandbox character are not loaded with alchemist skills/spells

[umbral glade]

I cleared a 50 floor tower at lvl 232 on base beo in t9 apollyon gear

[blazing hull]

main problem for pet build is the same as non-crit builds. Pets don't do damage because they don't crit for the most part, and when they do they don't have amity + 5 prom hands. So pet builds will always be worse than player crit build.

[summer gulch]

That

[split heart]

Agree with pets and crit

[summer gulch]

Also I wish crit adorn affected pets that can crit 😭

Have my fjalalalalr doing 2m crit and then 90k Eva strikes

[blazing hull]

even for pets that crit, you can't increase their chances outside of wyrm, meaning they don't have 100% anyway.

[split heart]

Lol that'd be nice

[wicked sandal]

Wyrm's, evasive strikes, and lay spikes

dioscuri mead also if you want to be fancy

[summer gulch]

My best crit is in towers on the titan for 1.5m I gotta work to achieve

[blazing hull]

there really are beo's out there that play realmspikes ?

[summer gulch]

What's lay spike

[wicked sandal]

no, but it's arguably the best weapon for TMM

[split heart]

Pets also don't trigger recharge, but that's fair I think. Still, if pet crits triggered recharge, it may be enough to keep beginner Hydruses from raging

[umbral glade]

"pet has 5% base crit on all abilities" as a bond. Boom. Crit pet class/family

[split heart]

I use realmspikes for pvp

It's tough though

[blazing hull]

ah yes, the famous "just use ultima lol"

[split heart]

Lmao

[umbral glade]

Well TMM and player ultima is hard to compare

[wicked sandal]

TMM has only crit spells, so 100% crit is pretty worth on it

[blazing hull]

pretty sure I've seen abyss do a near cap hit with it. The problem is tmm will not use it everytime

[split heart]

Tmm seems to favor the fey spells over Ultima like 2:1

[wicked sandal]

Yeah if you use snotra, alignment, three zerks, redline, hit an elemental weak enemy with lugus tmag 3 and single mag up

[blazing hull]

at least fey spells aren't that bad

[split heart]

Yeah, they hit okayish

[umbral glade]

Hey you dont need lugus for t.mag3 if you are willing to waste consumables

[split heart]

No! I'm SAVING THEM

/s fyi

[blazing hull]

yes it's a screenshot build for the most part, but it exists and it's not like heretic could reach dmg cap without any buff

[umbral glade]

Anyways, i hope we get the next iteration of beta changes before the weekend kicks off

Most things about current changes have been said i feel like

[split heart]

Fingers crossed. Happy Friday y'all

[wicked sandal]

Yeah I just meant what's possible and what's realistic aren't the same. You can't even stack all those effects without gear swapping in dungeons

[blazing hull]

let Odie have some sleep ! poor man is working hard while reading the ton of crap we can write on discord.

[umbral glade]

Besides maybe a list of "this good bond" and a list of "please no, 'tis no good"

[split heart]

They also cranked out kingdom improvements lmao I don't think they sleep

[ivory birch]

what happened?

[last bane]

Hm
Why there can't be Hybrid Defense?
I mean - your def will rise res, and res up's def...

[blazing hull]

bench

[split heart]

In the beta, new chat and kingdom now has benching. There's a thread on it in the beta discussions

[summer gulch]

Benching

[ivory birch]

ty for the explanations

🙏

time to check it out

[summer gulch]

https://discord.com/channels/448527960056791051/1098844480334999612

More channel related

[umbral glade]

Back to the pvp great souls mines with me

Pvp is despair

But the fey yeti coat needs its souls

[split heart]

Kill me now, I also need 500+ greater souls

[summer gulch]

I hate pvp but also it's the onlything left for me beside towers as a 250

[split heart]

The grind burns

I've purposefully stalled at 230 on live to take it slow

[summer gulch]

I hate raiding more

Raiding puts me to sleep

[split heart]

Same

[umbral glade]

I needed like 1700

[blazing hull]

my personnal solution to your problem is to not have a fyc to upgrade.

[split heart]

Raiding is... So boring. Endless dungeon at least changes the mobs

Rofl. We're both blessed with no fyc this day

[umbral glade]

900 something left

[split heart]

Bruh

[summer gulch]

If you hate same mob stack you'll hate towers

Nothing but the same stacks forever

[split heart]

I've been testing. But with towers you engage by moving around. My issue with raiding is that, at 230 vs any arisen, it takes like an hour minimum.

Arisen raid* I've been using up my moondrops

[summer gulch]

I wanted more blood essences for April event to farm beo gems but then I got sick

So I don't have many scrolls from event now

[split heart]

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. Wish I could give you mine lol, I've given up farming those gems

[ivory birch]

beta feedback related? 👀

[blazing hull]

one could think bonds never existed 🙂

[summer gulch]

Are they easy to obtain or is it a 50% chance at full raid cap like 3rd horse

[ivory birch]

pointing this out because it makes feedback much more difficult to engage with and take into consideration if there's lots of not beta chatter

just a thought

[summer gulch]

🤷‍♂️

[split heart]

Honestly the bond bonuses are hard to quantify. Because they're backend calculations, it's hard to see the effects

But yeah, bonds are nice. I like the added follower relevance.

[blazing hull]

it's also much more difficult for NF to read it, leading to them potentially missing the real feedback

[umbral glade]

I circumvented that problem by just finding a 197% ONC and a 199% FYC. It worked our pretty well

[summer gulch]

Let's be honest what's said about beta has already been said and no need conversation has emerged

But yes we should keep non beta topics low, and it muddles the pool

Just nothing new feedback has came of the past day or so

[ivory birch]

then just let it sit, no need to just talk for the sake of talking (if that's what's happening. unsure if it is)

[umbral glade]

I said before: i would like our bonds be more utility focused while our damage problem is handled by gear and maybe a simple dmg passive (or increase of the current ones) or specific spells (like hunters mark from other games).

A passive giving pets skills a low base crit chance could be an example

But i dont want bonds just be "pet now does 30% more dmg" - that is nice, but also boring

[split heart]

Honestly I like the idea of bonds being something like (skadi 1 is always active) or something

Some active effect. But that's just me. I don't mind the stat bonuses

[umbral glade]

I'd much rather have a vision distance pet line (like birds) whos bond work around VD

[split heart]

That'd be cool. Or auto map markers with animal type followers?

[umbral glade]

I would use a bird pet if it had more vision distance but lower dmg

[summer gulch]

It's a band-aide approach

However I want petstats always

[umbral glade]

If my selection is between "pet a with a 30% dmg bond" and "pet b with a 20% damage bond" but its obvious i pet b deals more dmg

[summer gulch]

And forever

[umbral glade]

I would never use pet a

But if my selection is between "you get an additional material on kill" and "you have 15% view distance" and "you deal 30% more damage than the other pets"

I could see myself using all 3

Same for "your golem pet gives you an additional 10% ward recovery" and "your undeads reduce enemy def and buff your atk". As base beo i could see myself picking both since i want to play player driven damage

[split heart]

I don't mind the stats as they currently are, but I feel that level 3 bonds need a little boost. Level 3 bonds specifically, I feel, should be powerful and unique.

But I think the issue is that there are too many existing pets to recode individually, so I'm not sure what solution to offer

[split heart]

But I agree that more variability would also be nice, but a bonus at this point from my view

[hasty knoll]

https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/cffe.gif

[split heart]

Jesus lmao. Get some sleep, even though we appreciate your good work

[umbral glade]

If i wouldnt be juicing on shrines the last few days i woulda buy another coffee

I hope you can turn shrines into coffee

[split heart]

Hahaha, fingers crossed for Odie's well being

[umbral glade]

Ptsd from removing realms vision distance for 30 minutes

[hasty knoll]

we all make mistakes

[umbral glade]

I blame the entire RS community not you

Is there any chance we can get the smarter AI to interact with gunnr/snotra? Using gaits, on beo, often feels bad if the pets have any form of mixed damage skills (this doesnt really fit on a bond)

[stoic epoch]

Hey, Fry eventually drank enough cups of coffee in that episode to basically transcend humanity

So maybe that's what Odie's going for

https://tenor.com/view/caffeine-fry-coffee-100-futurama-gif-18341395

[split heart]

Lmao I need to rewatch Futurama

[stoic epoch]

View distance adjustment on human type pets

Down to 5%

Common type pets give 3% att and mag to player and follower at bond 3 now

Dragons give att and mag to both, and Def and res to player

Undead Horde now 7% status protection at lvl 1

8% life siphon lvl 3

That's all I see right now

So Cactus, Ymir, and Lindwurm got buffs

Small ones

But buffs

Need someone who's good with game math

Cactus gets 8% stats, plus a 3% attack buff

Does that translate into 11% more damage?

[wicked sandal]

follower stats are probably additive with other sources of follower stats?

[stoic epoch]

What's that do for us damage wise? I'm not game math smart.

That's for smarter people like you and Fux.

[wicked sandal]

for beoA tamer it'd be about 3% more dmg from the follower stats (assuming no sources of follower stats than tamer and dissonance) and 3% more dmg from the attack buff

[stoic epoch]

OK, so functionally is a 6% damage boost with the cactus for BeoA.

[umbral glade]

Which is pretty.. mild

A small step in the right direction

[stoic epoch]

I like the direction we're heading

Needs more oomph

[stoic epoch]

You said "assuming no other sources of follower stats"

What if they had like 24% follower stats from doom adorns? Does the 8% get better or worse in that case?

[wicked sandal]

worse, though not by that much

[hasty knoll]

Virtually all of them will most likely change drastically - this is really an exercise in testing some of the things that are possible bonds. I wouldn't get too fixated on current values just yet

[umbral glade]

Good stuff

Anything we can brainstorm for you

[hushed helm]

Hydrus is fine pre prom nerf. After we will See.

[umbral glade]

Beo hivemind

[stoic epoch]

How close are we to getting pet equipment?

[umbral glade]

Prom nerf hits every crit class the same - crit was a viable way to play before the upcoming nerfs and will still be better than 3 months ago.

[polar locust]

Nice! Good to see pet damage

[stoic epoch]

The bond stat bumps aren't being reflected on the character stats screen. Are they working as intended?

[heavy bane]

Might be a battle only thing

[stoic epoch]

Just odd because the hp bumps from bonds are reflected

Maybe that's so you go into battle at full hp?

Dunno

[heavy bane]

Oh interesting. Maybe it's indicative of how the BeoH passive world work with it in case a pet sacrifices itself for you?

[stoic epoch]

Maybe it doesn't show so it doesn't activate hybrid monster?

[last bane]

why the view distance was nerfed to 5% at humanoids?

[summer gulch]

Ig not to compete with realmprimes 10% vd bonus

[umbral glade]

"Virtually all of them will most likely change drastically - this is really an exercise in testing some of the things that are possible bonds. I wouldn't get too fixated on current values just yet"

from the man himself

[last bane]

Okaay

[tribal coral]

I suggested it at like 1am so I'm not sure anyone saw it but I really hope we get a bond for all pets that have summon skills to "increase chance to summon successfully" so there isn't a dead skill slot

[umbral glade]

that aint wrong, but if the pet is a "summoner class", wouldnt that just make this a non issue

[tribal coral]

I mean they exist already (onryo, ophion of olympia that I know of) and summoners cant use them but they keep the chance of the class that is using them, so they just about never work.

[rough lotus]

With the removal of the passive recharge. Valhallan Dissonance should be 100% at full hp.

[stoic epoch]

Honestly wish we weren't a redline class. Let me play music or something that builds the passive over turns, and every so often you need to refresh the duration with a skill or it resets the passive to zero.

Give us something new.

Does redlining make sense for a Bard?

[last bane]

somethig like "the less ward you have - more damage your pet deal"? :)

[stoic epoch]

Nah, I wouldn't tie it to ward, hp, or mana.

Literally just thematically make it so you're reciting an epic poem or playing some power ballad to build your passive.

The cost could come from our turn economy

You'd have to choose between u using a skill to upkeep the passive versus maintaining temp buffs and doing damage

[last bane]

hm, you start singing, and it gives some stacks, while there are this stacks - your pet becomes OP(or while you in party - your allies)

[stoic epoch]

Yup, something like that

[umbral glade]

"the less hp you have the more fierce your pet becomes in defending you"

does make sense

[last bane]

up to 50% :)

[umbral glade]

well thats the new version, only your pet getting a huge power boost is the old

[last bane]

hm, you start singing, and it gives some stacks, while there are this stacks - your pet becomes OP(or while you in party - your allies)
1 usage of "song skill_1" gives 1 stack, maximum 10 stacks, maximum bonus you can get at all 10 staks
there are, also, better skills 2 and 3, gives 2 & 3 staks at a time
aaaand while you using this skills - staks won't lose
Also there can be some new Spec's like "Singer/Vocalist" to maximize limit of staks or do autoregen of them

[umbral glade]

soo.. monster hunter hunting horn

hunting horn would be great

[rugged glade]

It's interesting to see how many visions people have of one class. And I'm glad to play a game where you can quite nicely play many of those visions thanks to classes being fluid

[summer gulch]

Serenade the pet to boost its power

Truly

The bard class we all want

Bard druid

[stoic epoch]

Nothren Skald

[stoic epoch]

It does, until you realize we spend 10 turns at the beginning of each fight stabbing ourselves down to our last hit points and the pet is just looking on like "this is fine".

[sick tinsel]

Approved

[last bane]

My Cactus with my 20 ascension and my gear with +130% pet's stats

And the same, but without +130% gear.

[polar locust]

I think that's normal

[last bane]

i think it's unfair, i expected +130%, kind of 20.000 at Cactus's Att
But i get almost nothing, 4.000. really? it even not 50%

[wicked sandal]

yeah that's how it is, 130% stats additive with beo tamers 145% stats, for a total of 275% stats

[polar locust]

There's a difference of 12k at least in arrowstorm

If it was multiplicative the change would be massive of course

[last bane]

second screen, 22k-34k arrowstorm without 130%
And i guess it must be smt like 45k-70k with them
But nope, there are 32k-51k.
Is it fair?

[stoic epoch]

I think we're about to see massive improvements

[hearty crystal]

As a realm main, I'm glad to see this class line getting some love. I think it's long overdue.

[noble stag]

i think a future patch thats solely focused on changing summoner and pet scaling to multiplicative but balancing the sources of pet/summon stats to compensate would be good for the long term health and balance of the classes

cause it seems both beos and gs dont like additive stats, they kinda feel like you are getting scammed comparetively to other classes

[wicked sandal]

The additive nature itself isn't as much the issue as the high base stat from class+spec, and the relatively low increase from equipment. Which does have its uses, like strong early power, and capacity to build defensive, or use orn gear without losing too much power. But when you actually want to gear for more damage, you hit a bottleneck. There simply isn't that much damage to push out of gear

[tribal coral]

This might be a crazy idea but since we are talking about new solutions for pets scaling, maybe Valhallan classes can give their pets their own weapon, so now if you want to build att and have a pet thats magic you can make that happen, also it allows for scaling into late game and has more options for interesting combinations.

[stoic epoch]

Pet gear has been in the works for at least a year or so

[tribal coral]

I mean like you can give your pet one weapon that only effects the pet and has its own slot, so if you give your cactus a stone dagger it can proc petrified and gets some bonus attack

[magic quest]

Fey cactus with old hallowed blade let's go

[tribal coral]

^thats the idea

[stoic epoch]

Pet breeding when?

[polar locust]

For what? 💀

[last bane]

To become a summoner

[stoic epoch]

Monster Rancher style pet management, of course.

[magic quest]

100 cactus

[summer gulch]

Ymir cactus

Fey chimcactus

[umbral glade]

Fey dragon with mammon acolyte please

[stoic epoch]

Fey Dragommon

[merry crow]

Pls god no. I don't want em to retire before I can even train them up to C Rank in Orna too 😭

[umbral glade]

being able to equip a spell to a pet would be kinda lit thou

[stoic epoch]

Gotta be efficient if you want that primo monster drip.

[sick tinsel]

To get perfect IVs and EVs on its Pokemon Follower

[sick tinsel]

you can only breed Followers of the same Family !

[wicked sandal]

Breed Ashen phoenix and Fey chimera until you get a chimera with deific channel or a phoenix with berserk

[sick tinsel]

Nah, but breed Phoenix and Archimedes, and with the child breed it with Gullikambi

You'll get DC + Mag + Dex

[rough lotus]

Does the Bond also increase AI levels of followers?

[umbral glade]

Only if the specific bond would state that.

We getting a separate buff to smart ai

[rough lotus]

Would be cool if they could be both together maybe?

[umbral glade]

i mean we already got gear, auriga passive, innate AI improvements and augments

more sources of gear would be nice

a follower type that is "very smart" having a "this pet is very smart bond" could certainly be a thing

[summer gulch]

How was the fomorian event for pet gear?

Was not easy farming that event

[umbral glade]

forgettable, like pretty much every other pet gear

[rugged glade]

I like some of it. Boots and torso are cool I think. The off hand too

[summer gulch]

I just learned the boots are immune to bleed and blight

And as a redline, nice

[summer gulch]

This is how it feels ngl

Same as it ever were with pet gear 🤷‍♂️

[wicked sandal]

The boots are excellent, the rest was okay at best

The offhand is decent too, but not cause it's a follower stat item

attack/magic offhand with good ward, adorn slots and sleep immunity

[rugged glade]

Yep, it's cool. Wish I could have them ornate

[summer gulch]

Pet beos don't care about sleep though?

I'm not understanding

if fully skill buffed that is

[wicked sandal]

The offhand is decent too, but not cause it's a follower stat item

it's a good item, just not for pet beo

Pretty good for beoH and deity

[rough lotus]

no I mean like, each bond also increases the AI by 1, all of them

[sick tinsel]

That's why Valhallan has native pet IA

[sick tinsel]

Prototype 1 :

• Healer (Followers using Pray, Cleanse/Dispel, Revive)

Bestial Bond Lv.1
HP +3%
Healing +20%
Status Protection +5%

Bestial Bond Lv.2
HP +4%
Healing +30%
Status Protection +10%

• Passive : Hydrus (Player)

Bestial Bond Lv.3
HP +8%
Healing +50%
Status Protection +15%

• Ability : Cleansing Wish* (Follower)
  * Cleansing wish : Cleanse every allies from negative statuses and heals 12% of their missing HP

Remember that everything is cumulative, numbers can be subject to modification.

[summer gulch]

Bc bonds stack would bond 3 beos have the cumulative
15%hp
100% healing
30% status protection?

Odie made bond lvls proc all stages at lvl 3

Less he lied, I'm misremembering, or misunderstood what he meant

[umbral glade]

its his idea of the passiv, with his idea of the mechanics being tweaked

[summer gulch]

Also

healing on a redline class, very beoH but not beoA 😦

I cringe at hp restore as a redline

[last bane]

it was only just for class of pet's "Healer"

[umbral glade]

its the bond for healing based pets

[summer gulch]

Oops

[polar locust]

That would be cool if the player was just enjoying the carry

[last bane]

it just an example of "What could be"

[rough lotus]

maybe beo shouldn't be a redline and instead should start at 100% hp full power and lower as it goes lower.

[last bane]

Better give him more pet protection at low hp, but make pet independent of any lines

[rough lotus]

more rng and less synergy? I dont like that

[stoic epoch]

I honestly can't wait for Monday

Or Tuesday

Gonna see what Odie's been cooking up for his favorite pet users

I've got a fever, and the only prescription is Beo Balance changes

[split heart]

I'm excited as well

[polar locust]

im excited for that too

[sick tinsel]

using a Healer pet for Redlining is cringe

My design of Healer Follower BB is to increase the healing power, reduce the chances to be affected by status and giving tools to keep allies in good shape

Healer pet are only useful in Party with difficult content.
But with this new BB, it can also be an interesting companion for PvP with the status reduction

[sick tinsel]

• Warden (Use Ward of .../Divine Bastion, Rempart/Fortify, Mend Wall)

Bestial Bond Lv.1
Ward +2%
Ward regen +1%
Protect Chance +1%
T.Def (6%)
T.Res (6%)
Provoke (8%)

Bestial Bond Lv.2
Ward +3%
Ward regen +2%
Protect Chance +2%
T.Def (3%)
T.Res (3%)
Provoke (4%)

Bestial Bond Lv.3
Ward +5%
Ward regen +3%
Protect Chance +3%

• Ability : Sentry's Ward* (Follower)
  * Sentry's Ward : Increases ward absorption at 50%, gives 3 ward turns and regenerate 5% ward, applied on all allies

Remember that everything is cumulative, numbers can be subject to modification.

[umbral glade]

can anybody check if we also got some changes just now like the RS's ❤️

[stoic epoch]

I'm not seeing any BB changes yet

Checked through all pet subtypes

[umbral glade]

thx, guess it was just some RS changes for that update

[stoic epoch]

Hmmm

At the start of the beta didn't BeoA have a passive that granted 2 levels of pet ai?

Yes, they did have a passive specifically calling out 2 lvls of pet ai

But they were missing auriga

[hasty knoll]

it mistakenly replaced the Auriga passive, which provides the same effect

[stoic epoch]

OK, so the only thing that's changed is the passive list not the effects

[hasty knoll]

aye

[stoic epoch]

Cool.

Odie, you made plans for pet equipment at one point, how close is that to a reality?

[hasty knoll]

definitely not a "soon" thing. they were originally what Amities became

[stoic epoch]

OK. Was wondering since that would also be a source of pet strength if it was going to be considered during this balance pass.

But not if it's not a soon thing.

[polar locust]

This week we gonna see more changes in Bonds?

[stoic epoch]

I'd assume.

He's tweaked 'em every couple days so far.

[sick tinsel]

Mmh, it will be hard to balance Bestial Bond and allow BeoA to do the same DpT

[last bane]

BeoH?

[sick tinsel]

BeoH.

[last bane]

show me your setup, i wanna do the same >_>

[sick tinsel]

Sure :

[last bane]

Thanks :)

[sick tinsel]

Other Realms done.

Done in 1 hour, that's what I expect from a player with adapted stuff, optimised for damage.

Regular Beowulf doesn't have this chance to say the less

[magic quest]

I did the limit on most raids in one go

[sick tinsel]

which class ?

[magic quest]

Gilgamesh

Hercules to be exact

I did my first or as beo+ymir

[sick tinsel]

Ymir is less efficient on elemental resisting Raids

especially if its IA prioritize Blight over Elemental Resist/Immunity

[magic quest]

Yeah that is true unfortunately

[sick tinsel]

"Oh, the enemy has Blightning, let's spam Lightning spell on Immunity during 5+ turns !"

[last bane]

Have you tried Bulwark to gain +30% Dragon Damage?

[magic quest]

That's why we need 2 followers on beo

[sick tinsel]

I forgot each time that thing gives Dragon damage

Nope, forgot

I knew this since Ultima-abusers was crying over Ultima changes/nerfs

[last bane]

also Quetzalcoatl's hat for RS gives +20% crit dmg

[sick tinsel]

Well, for the next time

[magic quest]

Is your amity 30% dragon DMG

[sick tinsel]

x1.4 crit dmg is more interesting

[magic quest]

As a Gilgamesh i forget sometimes how powerful is crit amity

[sick tinsel]

the best is to find both bonuses in one amity

imagine with oracle, the multipliers !

[last bane]

Thy x20hp this OR :)

[sick tinsel]

wdym ? There is no Quetz

[summer gulch]

4 levels of bond

[sick tinsel]

I would like but not everyone showed interest and Odie didn't say if it was feasible