#Valhallan Changes

15641 messages · Page 16 of 16 (latest)

stoic epoch
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At least according to Odie

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Well, I guess he never confirmed that

umbral glade
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i am still voting for the "give every pet a flat 10% bonded atk+mag" and then lower the bonded atk/mag accordingly

stoic epoch
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Not really

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I'm still trying to find an adjective to describe my frustration from earlier

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Let's go with "flummoxed"

umbral glade
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funnily enough, the grand rally bond lost the grand rally skill

stoic epoch
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That's apt

umbral glade
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so they are entirely dead

ivory birch
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I think a class passive that has bonded attack and magic on the Beos would be fine/good

umbral glade
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they have bonded mana and bonded hp

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and nothing else

ivory birch
umbral glade
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easily the 2 worst bond skills

stoic epoch
vivid breach
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Lmao even major is saying these changes are overly cautious

umbral glade
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i honestly dont understand why bonded atk/mag is exclusive to some pets, that is the main selling point of the mechanic: your gear boosts your pets damage

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*more than before

stoic epoch
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I had a real "where'd the soda go" moment

ivory birch
stoic epoch
vivid breach
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🤭

ivory birch
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no, really, what is it

last bane
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Atlas is broken on BeoA .-.
Even under Skadi II - 5 times a row casting Titan's Lesser Wall

umbral glade
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i dont have a anubis on live (lol) to test if it still uses wildfire 99% of turns

umbral glade
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did my suggestion of the reworked follower menu i came up with yesterday, glad the other suggestions are still overwhelmingly positive

ivory birch
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what are y'all using for towers now

stoic epoch
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I'm trying Fjalar in one with crit gear

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Positive results so far

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I'm not sure I like it more than Fenrir.

ivory birch
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I was doing well with Medusa pre-patch for guardians/strays (shit for raid/titan), but that's obviously no longer an option now

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I tried it. it's just a lower damage and less reliable cactus

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except requires more investment lol

stoic epoch
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Eww

umbral glade
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fenrir was my go to pre patch

ivory birch
umbral glade
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now, idk i likely would go with cactus or just a chimera

ivory birch
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cactus' damage is so bad for this

umbral glade
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and i was a big advocate of not using cactus for towers

ivory birch
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doing 2k a turn isn't something to write home about 😂

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I will say it's really good at one thing

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it does a fantastic job of knocking fallen Gaia and leviathan into mystic feather range

umbral glade
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well it helps that i do (or did prepatch) 30k chained shield hits

ivory birch
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it's super consistent with that

umbral glade
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yea but my friendship with fenrir ended

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after recommending it to so many people for months

ivory birch
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it should have gotten better physical moves and the attack/accuracy bond that cactus has

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don't know why it was basically reworked, nothing else was

umbral glade
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beaststrikes is fine, its still the second best dmg move on a crit, after a bonded strike crit

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it would help if its mag wouldnt be 2k of course

ivory birch
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but neither crit nor a dragon skill makes thematic sense on what Fenrir used to be

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sure, it's tolerable, but it's far from the right call

umbral glade
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hes a beast, so beaststrikes is thematic isnt it

ivory birch
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that flies for anything, doesn't it?

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it is, more importantly, a dragon and hybrid skill. both of those are incredibly out of place

umbral glade
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i like the idea of a non physical move on it

ivory birch
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why? there's multiple other pets that do exactly that

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I don't see how that improves fenrir

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that's literally what chimera does =/

umbral glade
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i mean, viperstrike is also not a thematic fit for deity, deity is not a viper

ivory birch
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this is weak reasoning, I'm not sure why it's so important here

umbral glade
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might just be me being branded from using beo in endless

last bane
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screw it, nobody cares about our opinion

umbral glade
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where every phys immune enemymeans restarting the game twicew

ivory birch
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Fenrir had a niche it occupied well, it didn't need its niche to be changed

umbral glade
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for me its niche wasnt physical moves, it was self healing

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which is why i would like viperstrike on it

ivory birch
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that makes even less sense

umbral glade
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selfheals, can crit (i think only lvl3)

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i dont think names of moves should be the indicator here

ivory birch
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yup, and it isn't for me

umbral glade
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smart ai will make great use of a coverage move, as it prefers doing the weakness move and avoids getting immuned

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that would, as an example, allow you to run your faction affinity

ivory birch
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idk, I just don't see why there was any need to rework a pet. it was completely random -- this patch didn't modify other pets at a base level

umbral glade
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and have the dragon move as coverage

ivory birch
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if there was a desire to improve existing pets while adding bonds, then actually make those changes. just one follower seems arbitrarily targetted

umbral glade
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tbh, its moves are the least of my worries with it

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it was a bandaid fix to "this is a crit pet but it doesnt have a crit move in its skillset" and we all know that

ivory birch
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yeah, it was

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and the solution wasn't to give it more crit moves, it was to change its bonds

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it's an out of place decision to cover for an out of place decision

umbral glade
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which is okay, dont get me wrong, i dont mind a pet becoming a crit pet for a balance change, but i agree with its overlap to chimera

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which is weird, because chimera didnt become a crit pet

ivory birch
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it's fine to change pets to better suit their niche, and to ensure they work alongside bonds. that's not the problem

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the problem is that that wasn't done. just Fenrir was randomly changed

umbral glade
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i am still somewhat salty that gullinkambi's bond never got implemented to more pets

ivory birch
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what's the bond

umbral glade
ivory birch
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that pet by itself is god awful, a bond isn't enough to fix it

umbral glade
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i advocated many times that it would be a great fit to more pets

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my suggestion was to change delay strike to guardian strike

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and remove inquest/rebuke

ivory birch
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that's a weird list of effects for one single pet

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seems super scattered/unfocused

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there's cool aspects in there but all at once is weird

umbral glade
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i was loving the idea of a ward+def+res+atk bonded stat pet

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with something like guardian strikes

rough lotus
umbral glade
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for things like mighty slime and arisen cernunnos and shade of achlys and living arch armor and maybe the pegasus pets

ivory birch
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good lord the new lizard sucks

umbral glade
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i just wanted a usable pet with def+res+atk bonds and a fitting and hard hitting skill

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the new lizard was fine until it randomly lost its atk bond

ivory birch
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bite and tricut are so bad

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it doesn't have any good damaging skills on it

rough lotus
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Right now I am having most fun with ashen phoenix, hits like a truck and other pets seem weak compared to it.

ivory birch
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quadcut is okay, it's not good

umbral glade
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to give some lore on the lizard

ivory birch
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yeah, higher tier source for bonded strikes

umbral glade
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that got implemented when bonds were still tied to pet families

ivory birch
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I guess it used to be reptile strikes

umbral glade
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and we liked the lizarr force bond but its highes t pet was t3

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yea

ivory birch
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either way, it's not a good pet

umbral glade
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it also has sharpen, a temp buff that runs out every second turn

ivory birch
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I don't know why moves this bad are still being thrown on T10 pets

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I guess I'll try chimera lol

misty acorn
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The lizard? Oh yeah he's not good at all

umbral glade
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so it will spend frequent turns rebuffing sharpen

ivory birch
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this has not been a pleasant towers experience

rough lotus
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I think it is great

umbral glade
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i felt like a heretic for a few hours

ivory birch
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what ascension was that?

umbral glade
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(and no that wasnt the short time our pets had like 200k atk)

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20ish

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and level 246

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my mirror is a bit outdated

ivory birch
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because that looks good, but my lizard is not doing anything even remotely close to that lol

umbral glade
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yea your lizard no longer has any form of bonded atk

misty acorn
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There's better choices than the lizard for sure

umbral glade
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and that video was a state of bonded atk that was deemed too good

ivory birch
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so much caution for a class that was behind by such a margin

umbral glade
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the conversion rate got nerfed since then

ivory birch
misty acorn
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Fjalar gets 0d vs tanky Bois now which is lame

regal bramble
umbral glade
ivory birch
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yeah, what %

umbral glade
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we dont know, at least i dont remember

misty acorn
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Did a lot of testing for changes and stuff and it getting changed on release makes me feel like I wasted a lot of testing time lol

ivory birch
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yeah, I get that

misty acorn
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Could be worse, but yeah

umbral glade
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many of us feel that way i think

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we still got much nice stuff

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like redline scaling stats

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the ai stuff is nice

misty acorn
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I like my pets doing damage don't get me wrong, we did come a long way

regal bramble
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I'm definitely feeling this.

ivory birch
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I also get the inability to be public about every single change, and that would work if every change didn't have to be public. these changes don't seem to have been what the community pushed for, though, so the combo of that + no feedback period is questionable

misty acorn
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The ai doesn't work on auriga it's spamming dragon moves vs beos

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Which worked in beta fine

umbral glade
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being able to influence that pets dont use atk or mag moves is also great

ivory birch
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which move?

misty acorn
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Wyrm seal, the dragon one

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I think chimera works

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For example

ivory birch
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afaik AoE and bond moves don't use the AI res/imm bonus

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I.. don't know why they don't

misty acorn
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Ah that's why

ivory birch
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but they don't

umbral glade
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aoe are confirmed

misty acorn
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Well, it makes them undesirable

umbral glade
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i didnt hear about bonded skills ignoring it

ivory birch
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it makes the elemental aoe moves really atrocious

misty acorn
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Wyrmseal isn't aoe but yeah Ymir spamming wyrmseal on a beo is annoying

ivory birch
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there's no reason for my pet to be sitting there against two enemies using immuned skills

misty acorn
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Bashe too

umbral glade
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dejct can you test anubis in a horde dungeon for me to check if it still uses wildfire 99% of turns

misty acorn
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Bashe was spamming drake blight

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It's not even a bond move

umbral glade
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i dont have anubis unlocked and not in a bestiary atm

misty acorn
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Anubis does 0 I don't wanna test that guy again, I voiced my opinion too much

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He's just unusable

ivory birch
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Ymir getting a new spell is a giant nerf. the selling point of that pet is the huge 3x multiplier with its elemental spells

umbral glade
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i am just interested in his move selections, i am aware his dmg is shit

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(he doesnt have bonded magic lmao)

misty acorn
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Just don't use Anubis at all

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Even stonefire sucks now

ivory birch
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doesn't feel like there are many options

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doesn't feel like follower usage has changed.. at all?

umbral glade
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it did change, i feel like i lost some options

misty acorn
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It might have before some last minute changes

ivory birch
misty acorn
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But now my fav pets, the dragons are stupid

umbral glade
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i dont see a reason to use a pet w/o bonded atk over a pet that has it

misty acorn
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I voiced my opinion on the dragons so much but it never amounted to anything

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Medusa would have been a good alternative to cactus, but now she's too weak

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So yeah overall nothing new to use really

ivory birch
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medusa was overtuned for sure, but that was such a huge last minute change that never got to see a feedback period

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it needed tuning, but now it's just irrelevant

misty acorn
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Pretty much yeah

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This tends to happen a lot, too strong then made irrelevant

ivory birch
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funny what the difference between split and unsplit aoe is. I wonder what else that impacts 🤔

misty acorn
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So it's not used anyway and the change could have not been done

ivory birch
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but yeah I'm just doing to not bother with Beo for towers/raiding/horde gaunts now. I was before, but these changes have not been productive

umbral glade
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be sure to upvote the suggestions if you like them

last bane
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i think player stats redline starting from 100%hp + stable for all player-to-pet Att+Mag ~20% bond was enauf for us in this patch...
and smt good for BeoH

misty acorn
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But yeah I'm so sad about Ymir

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I tried

ivory birch
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it's much more effort for less results

misty acorn
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I really tried lol

ivory birch
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I tried a good few pets for this tower run, but they all feel bad

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Cactus (surprise surprise) felt the best

misty acorn
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Yeah he's the only one that's actually drastically better lol

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I'm grateful for that

umbral glade
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i still think ymir should have a unique bond

ivory birch
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at least the one good thing hasn't been ruined

regal bramble
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Ymir's situation is sad at the moment, the pet has lost all its identity. And I'm really feeling like my options have been narrowed down.

misty acorn
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Organite golem is cool with free ward turns too

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Ortanite even

ivory birch
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yeah but you need Beo or tamer to access those, and at that point just use cataphract or the amity

misty acorn
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I tried to suggest the draconian era followers have different bonds, but I said it too much it was getting annoying

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Now they're just total shit

umbral glade
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ymir getting prismblight+ that applies in aoe and then its level 3 bond being "elemental skills his all blighted enemies"

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with some slight mag bond

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done

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fixed

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great pet

misty acorn
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Or just take them off

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Done

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Lol

ivory birch
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ymir was not one of the followers that needed buffs

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or big changes

misty acorn
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Yeah man I liked him before

ivory birch
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give it a magic and weakness mult bond

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call it a day

misty acorn
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He functioned okay

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Took long enough to blight as it is, now he blights, then uses wyrmseal or buffs instead

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He's completely useless

regal bramble
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The most impressive thing is that this has been said over and over again.

misty acorn
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Yeah I said it sooooo many times

ivory birch
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sidenote: I'm also confused by the def/res/ward bonds. how much am I getting from those? 😅

misty acorn
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Not a lot lol

ivory birch
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I mean, I know that

umbral glade
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def/res is pretty nice

misty acorn
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🤣

ivory birch
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but I still would like to know the number

umbral glade
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i get like 1-1,5k

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which is another item slot

misty acorn
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I was just joking, yeah yala suggested it shows the amount in the follower menu

ivory birch
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I have no idea what the new stat screen represents

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bro I'm just confused 😭

misty acorn
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Beo is now over complicated you think? Imagine being fresh

umbral glade
ivory birch
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maybe Beo/H + the golem is a worthwhile consideration

misty acorn
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It's hard to follow

ivory birch
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but uh, ashen still exists so 🤷

regal bramble
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Bonds lv 3 should be Beo's differential (and this has been suggested several times), but most of the problems are precisely in this bonds

misty acorn
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The ward turns let me use a different amity

ivory birch
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yeah, there's zero reason for lv3 bonds to have anything that doesn't benefit specifically base Beowulf and Beo/A

misty acorn
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And I like the defensive buffs

ivory birch
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yup, I'll give it a try

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I just wanted to try a follower build for the first time in a while

misty acorn
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So major, my opinion of the bond skills from the start has always been please remove these none add any benefit

ivory birch
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but I'll not anymore, just back to Beo/H -- the reason I invested in Beo prior to this patch

umbral glade
misty acorn
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RS is fn scary now lmao 🤣 maybe a heart of change is on the horizon

umbral glade
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yea i thought about just being a gilga

misty acorn
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I don't want any bond skills at all, none are strong or anything I'd want

umbral glade
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so i can unga bunga 1 button and be fine

misty acorn
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They make the good pets worse

ivory birch
misty acorn
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Agreed

ivory birch
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the one good use of it has been stonefire and (maybe) boulder toss

umbral glade
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i said it a million times, bonded skills NEEEEEEED to be by far the best move

misty acorn
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Not sure about boulder toss

ivory birch
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but then stonefire got its damaged cut by 80% overnight

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boulder toss seemed interesting. maybe not strong/meta, but it has/had potential

umbral glade
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otherwise you will go "this could have been an aerial barrage" every time the bonded ability comes up

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most of those skills are so conservative

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why not spiked shield instead of boulder toss

misty acorn
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Nah I just don't want any of the current bonded skills they're all weak imo

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They're all undesirable

umbral glade
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bonded strike is the best move of most crit pets

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highest hitting

misty acorn
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They have ruined my fav pets, and the ai hasn't helped

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I'm just gonna use chimera and call it a day

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Chim/cactus

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Done

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I don't wanna spend more time testing shit this beta was soooo long!!

ivory birch
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the AI changes are good, but the exclusions should not be exclusions

umbral glade
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that and it should actually work

misty acorn
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Thing is that skadi makes some pets spam ward skills

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Like it doesn't even work

ivory birch
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there should also have been an AI bonus for preferring the higher damaging move, not just move types based on current buffs

umbral glade
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there are plenty of documented cases of the ai not working

ivory birch
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yeah, skadi is breaking some followers, especially ones with bond skills

misty acorn
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I'm just repeating stuff I've said so many times

umbral glade
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anubis using wildfire 99% of turns

ivory birch
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it's clear that calls do not function in the way anyone thought they do

misty acorn
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If I use skadi with a titan for example it spams titans ward

ivory birch
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and there wasn't any way for us to know that

misty acorn
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It doesn't use any attacks

umbral glade
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we got no idea what calls do

ivory birch
umbral glade
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we dont even know what the difference between call 1 and call level 2 is

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no, frost

ivory birch
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what the fuck lol

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no idea then

misty acorn
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The ai thing is a shambles

ivory birch
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and I have some knowledge of this game 😅

misty acorn
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Too many things

ivory birch
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that seems completely wrong

umbral glade
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it was supposed to be working as intended according to odie

misty acorn
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Too many factors conflicting

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Skadi supposed to boost offensive skills makes some pets use ward skills,

ivory birch
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there's probably a few different things I. the AI being considered, and something is weighted improperly

misty acorn
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Low HP makes them spam prism ward even with it up

ivory birch
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but we'd never know that, obviously

misty acorn
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Buffs influence it now too

ivory birch
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it very well could be working intentionally

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from an implementation perspective

misty acorn
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I just want my titan to use towerfall, so I use skadi 2

ivory birch
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which is what Odie would have confirmed

misty acorn
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Nah it'll spam ward for like 30 turns when I have full ward

ivory birch
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yeah the titan followers are completely unusable

umbral glade
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Or stuff like this

Screenshot_20230511-175505.png
ivory birch
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Towerfall is an okay skill, but they spam lesser wall, even under Skadi

last bane
misty acorn
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Achlys is completely braindead too

ivory birch
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I think a few of the changes have been good successes, but a lot of the conflicts haven't been properly ironed out

misty acorn
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Overall the ai is worse than before it got added

polar locust
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Hey dejct did you tested Lindworm on live?

ivory birch
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and the bond placements are... confusing

ivory birch
polar locust
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The increase on damage is very big

misty acorn
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Yeah chimera rules

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That's it so far

regal bramble
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Honestly there's no way to be satisfied with what's happening, it's a mess

ivory birch
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eg. single target skill choice when using certain buffs

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last i checked pets properly use att/mag skills based on eg. gunnr/snotra. seen most obviously with dpeg

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but it's dpeg

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so

polar locust
misty acorn
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I've never got that to work reliably

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Not yet sorry

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I don't like lindworm haha

ivory birch
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get some AI bonuses and use gunnr/snotra, it'll prefer those damage moves much more than non-matching

polar locust
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Just wanted to know how was to you since you have a lot of ascensions 😅

ivory birch
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lindworm is by far the best raiding pet in the game atm

polar locust
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It's doing bonkers damage

ivory birch
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it utterly destroys anything else

misty acorn
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I found other pets better

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I can try it for you

ivory birch
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definitely not 😅

get some AI bonuses, use brynhild

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do not use skadi

polar locust
umbral glade
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yea lindworm is great

misty acorn
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Ill use auriga and let you know

regal bramble
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I used to think Ymir was better, today it's just good memories

polar locust
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Just curious to how much dmg you would get

ivory birch
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brynhild and even more AI bonuses are key

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with full fallen sky it'll just loop mark/execute

misty acorn
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Okay lemme see

ivory birch
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at least, it used to

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who knows, it could have been changed

polar locust
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Without much ai gear still deals a lot of executions

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Don't know if it's because of AI now

misty acorn
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It feels cheap using this thing

umbral glade
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affinity is also nice for lindworm

ivory birch
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yeah, it's just that AI gear improves the consistency of it

umbral glade
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if the boss isnt resisting

ivory birch
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oh yeah, and lindworm now gets your faction bonus

polar locust
ivory birch
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so a free 1.25x a lot of the time

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unless you're inferno 🥰

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in which case fuck you 😅

polar locust
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Hmm

regal bramble
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Did you get to see the new pet?

ivory birch
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which, the new T10 lizard?

umbral glade
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there is also a great questing beast

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but that looks dead on arrival

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given its skills

regal bramble
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That one

ivory birch
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oh that

regal bramble
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Yep, already born dead

ivory birch
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that looks much better than most other pets. what's wrong with it..?

misty acorn
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Did you want me to try certain buffs

umbral glade
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wildfire = no dmg

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flame gets immuned

ivory birch
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just buff like you would for raiding

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physical buffs, gunnr, brynhild

umbral glade
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viperstrike is a single random atk skill

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so it has viperseal, which heals you

ivory birch
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strike/seal3s are much stronger than the skills you would see on pets usually

umbral glade
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yes, but it messes with redlining

ivory birch
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yeah, but bloodshift exists for that. it's not ideal, but I don't know that I'd say "dead on arrival"

umbral glade
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and strike is unusable due to being the only atk move

regal bramble
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Wait, does the pet have two wyvernspeed III?

umbral glade
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bloodshift for pets is turbo bad

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it goes

ivory birch
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right, turn order

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I see what you mean

umbral glade
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player action -> bloodshift falls off -> pet heals you to full

ivory birch
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don't know why bloodshift isn't permanent, honestly, but it's accepted because it's far better than not having it at all

misty acorn
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Okay yeah lol 😂

ivory birch
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that's generally how changes are recieved. "better than nothing, sounds good to me" 😅

umbral glade
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it doesnt even get extended by buff duration

ivory birch
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yeah lindworm is very obviously the best raiding pet

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yup, bloodshift is neutral. it can't be extended or shortened with those effects (amities, Dorado/Auriga passives)

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which is a weird decision, but also not a huge deal

polar locust
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The 2nd best raid pet still being the fjalar?

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Or the other dragons win now?

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Like ymir

umbral glade
#

this mechanic has so much potential but i question if we should have said "stop this sunken cost fallacy" thing and go back to the empty canvas after we got the first draft of family aligned bonds

regal bramble
#

No, Ymir is broken

misty acorn
#

Still like fey chim more to use

#

That's just me tho

umbral glade
#

second best are the chimeras

#

for sure

ivory birch
#

ymir got much worse

misty acorn
#

Rip my fav boi

ivory birch
#

definitely not up there for raiding

#

or anything, really

umbral glade
#

the best descision for beo raiding is still the change class button and hit heretic

ivory birch
#

raids are the one place where setting blights was reliably useful

polar locust
regal bramble
#

Very sad situation, isn't it?

umbral glade
#

well you would hope the raid is dead before that becomes relevant

polar locust
#

Bleh

ivory birch
#

nah, the zerks are okay to deal with. unpleasant, but not impossible

regal bramble
#

These are the options we have now, and I'm not even going to talk about what needs to be changed, everything is within these almost 15,000 messages

polar locust
#

Just infinite pot

umbral glade
#

ngl, the heart of change to gilga looks very good right now

ivory birch
#

the chimeras have such good damage (relative to not linda) that it's worth dealing with the DoT

polar locust
#

Gonna try out

#

Chim or fey chim?

ivory birch
umbral glade
#

fey is better

#

imo

ivory birch
#

fey chim is better damage for eg. raiding

polar locust
#

Ok

ivory birch
#

regular chim has better piercing

#

if you need that, for some reason

polar locust
#

Noticed now i didn't bought normal chimera yet lol

ivory birch
#

you really don't need to if you have fey chim

regal bramble
ivory birch
#

regular chim has a niche over fey, but it's very rarely relevant

polar locust
#

For endless maybe

ivory birch
#

but normal chim is worthwhile if you don't already have fey

#

hell no 😅

umbral glade
#

i think my line of play for now is playing diablo4 while at home and then sit on a cactus and and click bastion 50 times for dungeons while outside

misty acorn
#

I like normal chim more

#

For pvp I mean

#

Raids it's fey chim

regal bramble
umbral glade
#

🫂

regal bramble
#

Let's stick with what still works, sometimes simple is better

umbral glade
#

i would sum up this mechanic as limitless potential but the ground thats build upon is very flawed

ivory birch
#

I'm so down for limitless potential, but balance patches are so, so, so few and far between that I'm not confident it'll be capitalized on

misty acorn
#

Working around pets has always been an issue for beo but it feels worse now in lots of ways

ivory birch
#

once it's released that's usually just how it'll be for a year+

misty acorn
#

So many variables

regal bramble
#

If it goes on like this for a year, there will be almost no one left.

ivory birch
#

I mean, that's what was said about Beo for years but you stubborn people are still here (meant lovingly)

umbral glade
#

i will advocate for this one last time:
give BB a baseline atk/mag bond of 10% for every pet and decrease the current atk/mag bonds according. Pets without atk/mag bond just FEEL BAD compared to those having it.
Make the added skill at BB3 by far the best skill of the pet.
Make important/special pets feel special by getting them fun and unique stuff.
Please give us another aoe option

south sleet
#

-suggest release hoc esrlier to end the suffering faster mimic

umbral glade
#

free of charge HoC for Beo mains that fully restore resources as a bandaid

regal bramble
#

very very fair

umbral glade
#

i could have been a gilga all this time

regal bramble
#

My Gilga is 26 asc and will stay like this

umbral glade
#

yea grass is always greener on the other side

regal bramble
#

I don't think so, I always played Beo but it got to a point where it was ridiculous. So I leveled up my Gilga

#

Beo is my favorite class and I was strongly inclined to go back

umbral glade
#

yea i love the idea behind beos playstyle

regal bramble
#

But I don't want anymore

umbral glade
#

which is why i chased that instead of meta picks or player power

regal bramble
#

Yep I had the same thought, but as I evolved I saw that it was just an illusion

umbral glade
#

bestial bonds needed another 3 months of development time (which is 100% unreasonable) to get to the finetuned stage it could archive

#

it feels unfinished

ivory birch
#

at this point just wait for the ORN and hope that fixes stuff

#

cus the patch is now out

#

still make and vote on suggestions, but the next "big" change (I'm guessing) will be from the ORN

umbral glade
#

i was looking forward to this going live for quite a while, i see my suggestions reflected in some of the mechanics which is a great feeling, but now i am just back to playing dota

regal bramble
#

Same feeling, after today I'm taking a month off

misty acorn
#

It'll depend on who gets to be the voice of beo if I continue playing lol

umbral glade
#

beo related suggestions at 150✅ to 17❌

regal bramble
umbral glade
#

i dont know what that means but if it makes you happy, go for it

#

okay in english i can actually read it!

#

while i think the points are valid for suggestions, it should be reformatted

#

and split into multiples

#

if anybody wants to yoink my points and format then and give them a reasoning, feel free to do so

regal bramble
umbral glade
#

no worries mate

hasty knoll
#

I'll grab some time soon to run some more stuff by the beo community in beta end of week/early next week.

as promised, still committed to getting Bestial Bonds in a great place - some of this extends beyond what the Balance Patch aims to do. remember, all suggestions made are considered. we're a studio that listens to everything, but unfortunately, i don't have the capacity to respond to everything in a day. beta changes or lack thereof generally mean they did not work out

some things to help make this a better process, please avoid the gloomposting - i'm trying to make it ridiculously clear the Beo is a priority. If you'd like to ignore that sentiment or vent, do it elsewhere please. additionally, let's not suggest the ORN is the solution - that's mixing intentions up

alternatively, if i need to grab a group of beos and do it out of this forum instead, please let me know 🙂

Cheers

polar locust
#

Thanks!

umbral glade
#

it there a possibility of getting a #💡│suggestions like system for beta only content in the future

#

that feels like a much better system than an open discussion thread with 15k replies

#

that would allow discussions to be more focused about each suggestion instead of a free flowing thread that may have 3 sets of people talking at the same time

#

pinned posts are a band-aid fix but feel unsuited for a topic this big

ivory birch
#

tbf compiled, representative posts do work

umbral glade
#

they do, sure

ivory birch
#

it just can't be individualistic

umbral glade
#

but often times suggestions get spammed away by ongoing conversations

ivory birch
#

grab a few people, hash things out, try to consider everything and present it

hasty knoll
#

egh, imo, that seems overkill. we're all free to make additional threads for more focused topics. if i scroll back in here, i'd suggest a lot of the 15k messages didn't need to be here

ivory birch
umbral glade
#

"grabbing a few people and making a condensed post" is kinda hard for most people

hasty knoll
#

slowmode maybe? that experiment worked well for hoc

umbral glade
#

many non native english speakers have a hard time doing those posts

#

slowmode was on for the early HoC post

#

and it was just despair trying to hold a conversation with 2+ people

#

with 1 post every X minutes

ivory birch
#

slowmode is not good for collaboration, but it allowed people to present their thoughts

#

probably not the goal for this one, unless the thought is an entire separate thread for summaries, and keep another/this one for conversation

umbral glade
#

slowmode is nice for people making the condensed posts, but makes a conversation or back and fourth about an idea near impossible

#

unless its like 30sec slowmode

hasty knoll
#

probably not something we'll solve today. just going to pin my post and say good night, all

hasty knoll
umbral glade
#

have a good one

vivid breach
#

My concern is that with all the new content coming out this balance stuff is going to get pushed to the side for another year or so

hasty knoll
#

timeline is in pin

sick tinsel
#

THANK YOU

#

I agree with 99% about what Major said

#

I wasn't available since the first patch release, and what I see is DOOM 😂

#

Well, like I said, only Bestial Bond might be disapointing (and some IA interaction for some followers)

#

I do agree with the disapointment of many : You paint in a blank canva and you get ignored ... I mean, even a "no" with an extra explanation is pleasant at this state.

We don't know what is the point of view of the game designer
We don't know if we go in the right direction with our suggestions
And that's just mentally exhausting, because we dedicate hours to produce detailled answers to correct some problems, and then the result is different or litterally the inverse of what the community expected ...

So when Odie writes "if i need to grab a group of beos and do it out of this forum instead" that seems like a pre-ORN Beowulf for me, and might be the best choice to the actual situation.

But we need to know who is selected, so we can exchange with them and have a better understanding of the situation.

polar cypress
#

We can form a beo Union and vote our delegates mighty_mimic

sick tinsel
#

Beowulf has by far the most active fan base of any classes, so yeah, organizing our communication may help a lot

polar cypress
sick tinsel
#

Well, I checked the activity on this server, I don't read often Orna Legends

rugged glade
rough lotus
#

My only issues are: Fenrir shouldn't have beaststrikes. Cthulu octa should crit and have crit bonds. Ashen Phoenix and other pets should have both magic and attack bonds. Medusa aoe could be better.

polar cypress
#

Ashen Phoenix is perfect like it is, is not a DMG pet

#

Maybe crit bond could be marginally better

#

Since has 4% crit and 14% crit dmg

#

Which is two things Hydrus needs post nerf

vivid breach
rugged glade
#

Don't know if it would be by vote, since that would make things be much like ORN. I'm fine with Odie picking up who he wants to, since he has read all that stuff

#

I'm fine with votes too, as long as it provide a focused and constructive workforce for Beo

#

But I would vote for people based on their capacity to work fine between them and with the studios rather that their personnal opinions. Imo selected people will have a mission to carry on general thoughts on the class, not just theirs

south sleet
polar cypress
#

Among scholars there are a couple of people I trust to be good beo advocates

#

The only person I would add would be Inarin for their achievements with beo endlessmighty_mimic

#

Anyway only 87 ppl wrote at least once in this channel, I was expecting it to be much more

wicked sandal
south sleet
#

i don't want it to be 99% insiders

wicked sandal
#

what exactly do you mean by insiders

polar cypress
#

Then Yalalala, Forgeus (even tho I don't agree on almost any of their suggestions on BBs) and Kazar are my other votes mimic

Then obv Fuximus and Major, but I consider them insider

polar cypress
wicked sandal
#

well he already said mods and scholars, then added insiders as a separate category so I got confused mimic

warm finch
# polar cypress Scholars/mod

Fyi, mods and scholars are completely unafilliated with NF. They're just players that got recognized for one thing or another.
They're less insiders and more like. Well-known community members to some degree I guess?

#

We're not privy to any special information, nor is our voice any louder than anyone else's in terms of balance or feedback.
We're just people.

sick tinsel
polar cypress
#

Nah I don't mind arguing too much and loved the energy

#

Didnt want to turn you offmighty_mimic

sick tinsel
#

Anyway, told me what you don't like so I can see what I can improve

polar cypress
#

They looked overall overtuned

sick tinsel
polar cypress
#

I don't want beo to get hated as summoner is

sick tinsel
#

Understandable

#

Well, I don't know what are the right numbers actually, so tuning doesn't bother me much

#

I wanted to propose an alternative to existing BBs

#

Bonded offense are good and finally answer the problem of follower's power not scaling with equipments and their quality

wicked sandal
#

bonded def/res is actually kinda interesting too

sick tinsel
#

Oh ?

wicked sandal
#

TMM will be great for beo endless

#

well, in itself it's not that interesting, but the gained def/res is notable

sick tinsel
#

I feel conflicted with those other Bonded stats

wicked sandal
#

my f1000 strat got a lot more doable with it

sick tinsel
#

Better to use +X% def/res for the same result, instead to make fancy words and mechanisms for the same result

#

Bonded Mana ? +X% Mana, +Y% Mana Regen

#

You can apply this logic to every other defensive stats

#

Unless ...

#

If I'm not wrong stats of followers inherit from their monster counterpart right ?

wicked sandal
#

sometimes, not always

sick tinsel
#

Meaning that with Valhallan main passive, they have increased stats that often surpass those of regular players

#

Kinda like how Summons are sack of stats, barely killable with enough Summon stats

#

I might have a crazy idea to make Def/Res interesting for Follower

#

Protect doesn't block the attack, but the Def/Res of the Follower are used in the calculation

#

So even if you are protected from an attack, you can still receive damage from high piercing ability

#

But that means if you stack more Protect Chance, it doesn't become automatically broken

#

Also, other Class trying using Protect chance will be far less effective than Valhallan, since they don't have much access to Follower Stats boost

#

Little random idea that came to me to justify Bonded Def/Res

rough lotus
# polar cypress Maybe crit bond could be marginally better

Please no more crit bonds on pets that shouldn't crit. That was the mistake for Fenrir. Ashen Phoenix is hybrid it should get hybrid bond. Fenrir is attack non crit it should get attack bond.

Simple as that.

Making everything out of identity just to crit is strange.

Meanwhile pets that should crit like Cthulu and should be damaged focus instead of multi stat.

#

The bonds should be not be just to make their damage better but rather be consistent with what they already do.

#

Medusa is the only pet that I could see changed skill wise and stat wise in order to fit a role of hybrid aoe better. But others should be kept their roles and identities.

last bane
#

Me with Archimed pet
Just imagine tha same on BaseBeo that also Dealing Damage with Ultima, for example...
Pet+BaseBeo are better than Hydrus now.

image.png
rugged glade
wicked sandal
#

with those buffs up I can still hit 3m dmg on verse 4 on hydrus

rugged glade
#

(it's an honest question here, I'm not turbo skilled in meta beo)

polar locust
#

Meta beo is Lindworm literally

last bane
wicked sandal
manic nimbus
#

At al53, I feel like my Hydrus should hit for more damage than it currently does :/ I do not want a super OP class that one shots everything but I really do think hydrus should get a bit of a dmg pump

last bane
#

Celestial lute full of prometeus gems, all other on ward and immuns
Al 27

manic nimbus
#

The pros of Hydrus atm (lack of need to line, turn1 damage etc) are not equal to its cons (bad damage ceiling overall, compared to other classes)

last bane
manic nimbus
#

I agree 100%. It is a crit class so it should have a crit dmg passive

#

I would trade the current underwhelmig Hydrus passive for a crit damage boost obe

rugged glade
manic nimbus
#

I will make a suggestion.

manic nimbus
#

Even disregarding prometheus and celestials

rugged glade
#

I'm not on Orna since long enough to have seen T10 arrival. And I do think Hydrus could be boosted. I juste tend to misregard "other classes" as reference point

manic nimbus
#

Im just asking so we can draw a fair comparison

#

As i am sure beo hydrus underperforms after 1 turn has passed

#

I would like to ask if there is any time window we could expect some "balancing of the balancing patch" or if that is not on NF priority list atm (which is fair, considering the balancing dropped 24h ago)

rugged glade
#

I would say we have to see what the goal of one class/variant is, and compare with the actual implementation of that goal. Try to... list all the flaws preventing BeoH to feel like a functional engine.
Not comparing with other classes, but with what one class could be ?

hasty knoll
#

(as far as beo goes)

manic nimbus
#

I will summarize my thoughts on the Hydrus class and what I think it would be some fair tweaks to it (as usual, only my opinion so feel free to join in on the discussion!)

1- I see Hydrus as a Valhallan compromise of forfeiting pet damage for player damage while
retaining some Valhallan identity.

In this regard, I think it is well achieved through the Valhallan Strength passive.

2 - The class identity is hybrid and crit-based and its gameplay revolves around these two characteristics

This is well noted through the increased crit chance passive and the Hybrid Monster one. It is here, on this point, that I think some tweaks are needed to make Beo Hydrus fulfill its identity.

Imo, this could be achieved by either:

  • increase crit damage as a passive (as seen on Heretic, for example)
  • increase damage with hybrid skills (seems interesting as it would channel Hydrus' gameplay around Hybrid and also reinforce its identity, making it stand out from realmshifter-like builds and heretic-like builds)

3 - Dragonslayer Passive.

I like the comfiness of this passive but I feel it gets underwhelming fast. I have seen many arguments regarding the turn 1 potential of Hydrus vs. other classes' potential.

I believe the tweks proposed above in conjuction of this passive could make Hydrus feel a lot better.

4 - Hydrus Passive

As the passive with the name of the class, I feel it is a bit underwheling. I confess I do enjoy having it for the rare timea it procs but I have seen the argument of this passive being used against potential Hydrus tweaks. Personally, I would prefer to forfeit this passive for the ones mentioned on point 2. Ideally, we could maintain it and still have the tweaks. 😛

5 - Raiding perspective.

Hydrus is very comfortable to raid with. Hydrus can perrform well on reaching Kingdom's raid caps. But very similar to other t10 classes at the moment so the turn 1 argument is not enough on this point.

I am running out of characters for this post right now!

#

Conclusion: I believe the tweaks proposed could improve Hydrus gameplay and reinforce its identity while not ruining the "meta". ♥️

rugged glade
#

Totaly agree with the boost on hybrid damage skills. Imo the Hydrus passive is weak enough to be as it is today + include that boost mentionned higher

polar cypress
#

I'll gladly swap second chance for even more DMG prowess

manic nimbus
#

Disclaimer: I did not come up with the tweaks proposed, rather, I read those ideas around this channel!

polar cypress
#

Since most of the times it procs I wish I died

manic nimbus
#

Absolutely agree on that part

polar cypress
#

Hydrus can become swash 2.0

#

But with a sprinkle of hybrid

manic nimbus
#

I think it would be fine the way it is but with a bit more damaging capabilities

#

And it would be very interesting if the damage increase was hybrid based (it would need to be significant enough tho)

polar cypress
#

Another thing I can think of is reverse bonds

#

Like beoh being a 'stat vampire" against his pet

manic nimbus
last totem
#

If the valhallan identity is meant to be build in the class passive I'd wish for some follower interaction. The current second chance light can go imo and be replaced with something like "every time your follower acts increases the bonds (lol) between it and its master --> increases hybrid dmg by x%, stackable up to x%"

manic nimbus
#

Otherwise beo requirements would turn to: lvl225 + chess grandmaster ranking 🤣

gentle wolf
#

I'm taking a backseat until I get my phone replaced lol

vivid breach
#

Another issue I want to point out is that the dc bird is way less consistent now and I have to use a call that more often than not fails 3 times in a row to force him to use it. And I know it was a "bug" and most other classes are feeling the pain too but raiding feels so much worse than it did a couple days ago. I would love to see call skills have a higher rate of success, maybe even to the point that other classes can use them. Less effectively of course

wicked sandal
#

Calls having 100% success rate on beo makes sense to me

polar cypress
#

Yeah that's plain frustrating

hasty knoll
#

Auriga is 100%

polar cypress
#

You mean call 2 or auriga using them?

manic nimbus
#

Ohh 100% calls on hydrus would be fair as well 👀

hasty knoll
#

auriga will have 100% chance with calls

rough lotus
#

I think Hydrus should have their own tread as it gets messy to read what is going on with everything else and the many conversations on followers/bonds etc. Would be nice to have Hydrus separated imo.

polar cypress
#

I agree

manic nimbus
#

Im 100% on board with that

polar cypress
#

Maybe a thread for bonds and one for hydrus

manic nimbus
#

(oh my god this thread has 15k messages)

polar cypress
#

Outside from beta channel

#

Lemme do that