I broke a bolt and can't get it out. Help!

[iron plank]

2004 Honda Accord 2.4 automatic

The mechanic who last touched these bolts didn't tighten the upper one at all and the lower tensioner bolt took all thr weight. I snapped it

I tried putting two nuts on but the nuts stripped the threads. I tried locking pliers but it won't budge. I don't have access to fire or a welder. I tried drilling from the back but it wasn't getting through, maybe the bits aren't strong enough? What are my options?

[edgy meadow]

Cutting oil and a slightly smaller drill bit, see if that makes a dent in the bolt. If so, that’s a start. The complication is that’s a threaded hole so even when you drill it out you’ll have to re-tap some threads, although space permitting a locking nut on the back of that bolt may do ok to hold in place as well.

[iron plank]

I started with the smallest drill bit but it barely did anything for like 30 seconds. Fortunately there is a lot of space to do the drilling. Is there a better, stronger type of drill bit I should be using? I can run to the store.

I think what happened is since the back end is open, moisture and rust must have touched the bottom of the threads and it just got stuck. So do I buy this and once I get it out (somehow), remake the threads?

https://www.amazon.com/Orion-Motor-Tech-Metric-Thread/dp/B082PX8L7F

[edgy meadow]

Yep that’s exactly right, you’ll use a tap and die set to remake the threads. I have a harbor freight one myself, but first consideration is getting the bolt out. If you can get the center drilled out, you may be able to squeeze the bolt down a bit and get it out without destroying the threads.

At your hardware store, tell them what you’re drilling and ask for recommended bit, and they should have cutting oil too

[iron plank]

ok I'll run to Home Depot I guess

[edgy meadow]

I have cobalt bits myself but I don’t know what may be better

[iron plank]

but even if I drill from the rear and somehow am successful as my first time, AND the threads aren't damaged, how do I get it out? The front portion is still sticking out. Do I saw it down flat? Or leave it there for now and then saw it as a last resort?

[edgy meadow]

I’m hoping once you drill through it, with room for it to “flex” in the center a bit, you maybe able to work it free with vice grips. That’s a hope, but worth trying for a few moments to avoid having to drill it all out and re-tap the hole.

[iron plank]

I'll find out in 2 days! Is it worth buying a really cheap welding and welding a nut to it? I've never welded before...I'm scored the drilling will cause more damage because it's a difficult horizontal angle

[untold siren]

Get a propane torch. They're dirt cheap. Heat the outside bracket with the torch, carefully avoiding the rubber. Spray penetrating oil into the threads. Use vice grips to work this back and forth

[iron plank]

I paid somebody to do exactly this and it worked! Torch->PB Blaster-> vice grips.

Then finally when I got to the water pump I did it again 🤦‍♂️

[untold siren]

lmao

[iron plank]

I'll bring him back. The car didn't need a nurse...it needed a doctor

[untold siren]

the same method will probably work because there's so much exposed thread

[iron plank]

I figure it should be fine, despite being near sensitive water pump areas right?

[arctic shale]

GG @iron plank, you just advanced to level 3! Chat more to level up and earn top roles!

[untold siren]

if you're working on a car with rusty bolts like this everywhere you need to hit everything with penetrating oil and heat and replace bolts

[untold siren]

yes just shove some tin foil into the hole to keep dirt and junk from getting everywhere inside the engine

[iron plank]

that's what I've been doing but the problem is since this is my first time, I'm not aware of which bolts tend to be more rusty. Like these water pump bolts were not tight at all, but Honda must have put loctite on there from the factory. They all wanted to snap off at the head

and other bolts don't have closed backsides that I can't see, so the end of the bolt is very rusty and wants to break off. I guess it's just inexperience

[untold siren]

yeah you need to build some intuition for the yield strength of the bolt

rusty bolts need to be worked back and forth with the penetrating oil to help it get into the threads and work the rust off

[iron plank]

I wanted to replace the lower control arms since all the rubber is shot and it's included with the metal. Should I just skip this myself entirely since I don't have a torch and it's more heavy duty?

[untold siren]

if the car is rusty suspension tends to also be rusty. Do you have ball joint removal tools? Check the service manual for all of that

[iron plank]

I could buy them, just scared I'll hit hurdles too big for me

the suspension and axles are very rusty, I wanted to do them both since the passenger axle causes a really bad shudder. Been a problem with the car for a decade, this is the 3rd set of axles and the mechanics blame the trans. Trans shop said it's perfect. I think the suspension components are just warped or the motor mounts (also will replace) are ruining the angle from axle->wheel

[untold siren]

and a propane torch really is not that expensive, if you want to do more with cars it's almost a mandatory tool

[iron plank]

I'm honestly just scared to use it

[edgy meadow]

You can also rent suspension service tools (ball joint press, forks, tie rod separators, etc) from local parts store. Together with a few cans of penetrant, I’ve done lots of rusty suspensions. Torch is helpful 🔥

Oh and big hammer

[iron plank]

One more while I have you guys. The original water pump (21 years, 150k miles) is totally corroded at the seal and the mating surface is gross. I've been going over it with a razor blade. Anything else I should for the gasket groove? Toothbrush + brake cleaner?

Thank you both for helping!

I should've taken a better suspension-pic but you can see the control arm is full rust

[edgy meadow]

I’ve used toothbrush with brake cleaner on those surfaces. Make sure you get on the up side of this water pump job then let’s circle back to the suspension / axle / trans issue.

[iron plank]

Will do. Also replaced the heater control valve which was leaking and my two local mechanics didn't see it 💪

chatgpt does a much better job diagnosing my car than these "professional" mechanics

[untold siren]

be very careful to make sure the surface is flat, if it's not flat it won't seal

[iron plank]

surface is more important to get right than cleaning the groove?

[untold siren]

as in where the water pump meets the block

if there is corrosion and stuff like that making the surface a little bumpy

you can use 2000 grit sandpaper and soapy water to try and rub it off

don't go crazy trying to get it mirror finish, the flatness where the gasket meets the two metal flanges is most important

that and make sure with brake cleaner or alcohol cleaner that there is no oil or grease

[iron plank]

I fixed it! No leaks!

[bright cedar]

Nice! Good job! Have any pictures of the job completed?

[iron plank]

Also did a valve adjustment and gasket! Hopefully it doesn't leak anymore

[bright cedar]

Oh I bet the motor sounds great!

[edgy meadow]

Valve adjustment chefs kiss

[iron plank]

Quick question, I didn't want to make a new thread for something simple.

I have to do this repair and the bolts on my bracket look just as bad if not worse. Is the absolute safest thing to scrub the bolts with a wire brush, then spray penetrant, then use a ratchet very slowly or an impact at the lowest setting and let the ugga duggas loosen them? They're 14mm so not super fragile but I'm terrified to strip them since the bottom threads are exposed to rust

https://youtu.be/jUvF6PqxEYQ?t=218

[untold siren]

Heat it first then put penetrating oil into it.

[edgy meadow]

^^^ and I’m sure you are already aware; but six point socket. Don’t use a twelve point.

[iron plank]

Yep yep, don't even own a 12 point socket! Aside from heat and penetrating oil what's better between using a hammer and hand ratchet vs an impact at low setting? Which is optimal?

[surreal matrix]

@iron plank I came late to this but if you ever need to drill in metal make sure you

• get 135° angle drill bit
• use cutting oil or even penetrating oil like pb in a pinch
• and drill clockwise which is the default direction for a drill

The usual dill bits are 118°. The 135° is significant because they are split point and can bore the metal from the center and guide it to the cutting edge while the 118° will just try to friction the metal out till it gets to the cutting edge

also cutting oil I was surprised how well it works for metal machining

Idk what it does besides cooling but whatever it is it works and it is significant

drilling clockwise to cut is common knowledge but sometimes people don't know if you don't do it you are not connecting to the cutting edge you are just riding the smooth side

[edgy meadow]

That’s some handy info - TIL about the angle tips on those bits

Thanks mate

[surreal matrix]

You are welcome I have been through a lot of drilling with my car

[untold siren]

I prefer an impact because the vibration helps to loosen everything

[iron plank]

This is immensely helpful stuff that chatgpt won't tell me as my mechanic tutor. I bought this set on sale. The angle isn't clearly labeled as you describe, is this good enough or should I return it? I figured it's something to keep in the bottom drawer in case I break a bolt and desperately need to drill it out because all other methods failed

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-Cobalt-Red-Helix-Twist-Drill-Bit-Set-for-Drill-Drivers-23-Piece-48-89-2338/304198711

"Designed with a VARIABLE HELIX flute that begins with an aggressive 35° helical angle and ends at 15° for rapid chip removal."

Anything better you'd recommend? I don't need a huge kit for just an Accord but definitely something that will save me if needed

[untold siren]

cobalt bits are generally designed for drilling steel

Ideal for use in Hard Metals such as stainless steel, cast iron & black pipe as well as wood & plastics

[iron plank]

I did it again....this one I don't think was my fault. The bolt on the exhaust manifold cover completely seized onto the manifold. I still haven't been able to get my socket back. Damn thing!

Do I just give up on that bottom bolt and put the top 2 bolts back in and not think about it?

Why is it so rusty in that specific area? I hope my engine mounts aren't as bad....I'm only in the area to swap them for new ones

[arctic shale]

GG @iron plank, you just advanced to level 4! Chat more to level up and earn top roles!

[iron plank]

I sprayed the bolts on the mount back there with penetrant but still they didn't look as bad as this stupid manifold cover...weird https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1261766606900428870/1455369571820245105/1229252000b.jpg?ex=69547a09&is=69532889&hm=98038eff30aba1006fdac5706acd50b5ced9e5fd1f0fde6b5d33930fe00ef396&

[iron plank]

not sure how to salvage this. Do I just ignore that bottom bolt and hope it doesn't rattle? I assume I need the shield to protect everything in the area from heat.

you can see this bottom part that broke off...

[bright cedar]

Why is it so bad here? Because it is constantly being heated. Heat increases the rate of oxidation

[iron plank]

ahhh makes sense

[bright cedar]

You are correct. But you will be fine to operate with out it

[iron plank]

I'll report back when I finish the mounts. Hopefully I don't have to come back for help with them!

[bright cedar]

You are also correct that it will rattle so I wouldn’t put it back on. The excuse manifold is would have to be replaced to “fix” this issue. Unless the manifold is not cast, that it can be repaired.

[iron plank]

hmmm I guess I'll put it back together and see how bad it is. Would be a huge pain to also do the exhaust manifold as I'm very likely to snap off more bolts in more dangerous areas

[untold siren]

exhaust heat shields are rusty because higher heat means faster reaction rate to oxygen

and yeah, because the exhaust manifold mount itself broke off there's nothing for it to attach to. I'm not optimistic that the remaining mounts will survive without the third bolt helping to distribute the load

[iron plank]

I got 3 engine mounts in (Honda OEM) and ready to be torqued. But the 2 Beck Arnley bottom transmission mounts don't line up. Is there anything I can do? RMA to rockauto?

They absolutely won't fit no matter how much I jack the engine, loosen mounts, etc. The holes don't line up.

It appears like I can just move the trans up/down to get the hole to line up, but even at the correct height the mount is too far outside. Same issue on both mounts....sigh. And I bought 2x sets of Honda oem mounts from hondapartsnow.com and both of them had to be sent back

[untold siren]

you now know why I hate aftermarket parts much of the time lol

it's OE supplier or OEM for me

even then I've heard of cases like denso aftermarket MAF vs denso OEM MAF being different

[iron plank]

well I bought TWO sets of these bottom trans mounts and both were completely decayed and RMA'd

does Rockauto even accept returns for things like this?

I'm about to just put the old trans mounts back and send it. It was the front/rear engine and top trans mounts that were bad

[untold siren]

if it's within the 30 day return period they will take it

after that they tell you to pound sand lol

[bright cedar]

How do you know they are RMAs?

[iron plank]

I took pics and said these aren't usable - they sent a return label. Twice. 0 for 3 on buying transmission mounts 🙁

[untold siren]

oem or bust I guess

[bright cedar]

Oh so you did an RMA. Whats wrong with them? They look typical to me

[iron plank]

They were completely decayed and falling apart inside the package. That can't be typical?

the one on the left lost a few shreds of rubber when I literally just squeezed it top to bottom 🤷‍♂️

[bright cedar]

So that is from the molding process. The steel plates are placed in a place holder inside of a mold

The rubber is poured around the components inside the mold. Making up the mount shape. That delamination is from the outside cooling.

[bright cedar]

However, this does look HORRIBLE, you did the right thing haha

[bright cedar]

These I have seen before and have used mounts like this. Never had a failure or an issue. Just doesn’t look good

[iron plank]

yeah I mean...this doesn't look safe!

sorry for all the questions, I'm still learning with each repair. Today I stripped out the trans female threads by hand with the socket only even though it was perfectly lined up.

[bright cedar]

It doesn’t look good but that is just something that sometimes happens in the manufacturing process. To be honest, I have seen this before with Honda motor mounts

[iron plank]

So they were actually fine?? I did RMA 2x times and they were accepted twice

[bright cedar]

I’m sure they would have worked perfectly fine. If you get another replacement and they look the same, you know that’s how they are going to look.

[iron plank]

may I ask a few more quickies while I have your help for a sec? I'd really appreciate it. I'm not sure if my control arms/suspension components need to be replaced

[bright cedar]

Start another thread and tag me. I’ll see it