#how do you guys mix?

139 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

hallow iron
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do you mix at -6db and then master the song or just mix directly at 0db and call it a day?

hardy merlin
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I lower my drum and synth channels to the point that they don't clip, and then add ad glue compressor after I'm done

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As well as an EQ to bring out or reduce anything I need

tender cipher
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@stuck iris DO THIS ONE

glad dawn
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but depends on how I want to mix, if I wanna mix good, I'll have to remove limiter and check the mix

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or I can do to 0db with a limiter (realimit, khslimiter etc.)

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just note: you'll have to take a listen and fix the distorted parts

glad dawn
glad dawn
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xD

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but depends on you and ypur way to mix, alone asking and collect other's informations here is not enough

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do find it out yourself, you can ;D

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also

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EQ for cuts/ make parts noisier/more quiet is important

stuck iris
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if you're mastering your own stuff, mix into a limiter

stuck iris
glad dawn
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yea

stuck iris
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24 and 32 bit processing won't distort until at least 0dB

glad dawn
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that's why I group stuffs and limit

stuck iris
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32 bit is over +760dB before you start distorting

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so you don't really have to worry about headroom if you're mastering your own stuff

hallow iron
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Ight

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Thanks

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And mastering?

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Is it not necessary?

stuck iris
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it depends on what you're making

hallow iron
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Except the limiter

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Ofc

glad dawn
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like arc contest etc

stuck iris
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limiting is mastering for things that aren't collective works

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everything else is gonna be mixing

glad dawn
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yea you're right

stuck iris
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mastering for collective works is more complex

glad dawn
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I agree

stuck iris
glad dawn
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really...
and true

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I guess do not depend too much on it

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you're right

stuck iris
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me when
your ears aren't developed enough to hear most things fun fact

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for example, cutting below 20hz is a mastering nightmare yet you can't hear it

glad dawn
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completly real

stuck iris
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that's why you hire engineers or study if you really want a good mix or master

glad dawn
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except boosted etc

stuck iris
glad dawn
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xD

stuck iris
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phase rotation

glad dawn
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sub_bass: mono

stuck iris
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low cuts below your sub fundamental kill your sub

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nah i said below your fundamental

glad dawn
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xD

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nooo

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distortion

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yep

stuck iris
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anyways tldr talking about stuff you're uninformed about leads to issues for tons more people

hallow iron
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yes

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just cut the low end of the hardcore bass

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and you get the grrr grrr grrrr with the boom boom sub bass

tender cipher
jaunty elbow
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hahaha

gaunt pike
# hallow iron do you mix at -6db and then master the song or just mix directly at 0db and call...

I mix it a 0db, because later the compression makes up for it.I ususally I put ott 15 percent depth on master, then a compressor to create warmness and a harsh limiter. Then an eq and master is done. For mixing the drums usually are compressed and the transient loses power so I add a 20ms envelope with plus 6.2 db on both kick and snare so when tey are compressed they dont lose power. Dont use compression on cymbals tho. Make the cymbals hi passed and be sure to add filterd reverb to the crash. All the other stuff is relative on the song so yeah basically this is what you can use on a everyday project ig lmao

stuck iris
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ott on master ooooooooohhh

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im gonna be honest that's a shitton of terrible practice and arbitrary guidelines

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ott on master
you're destroying your transients, and not in the way that you think. phase rotation/dispersion smears transients through time, and is an inherent artefact of bandsplitting. you're also fucking up your tonal balance, as ott does wonders for killing your mids and blowing your highs out of proportion. the phase rotation also fucks up phase relationships, which means you're going to experience peaking earlier than you would without it
compressor for warmth
what warmth? compression only significantly alters tonal balance if it changes over time, which in most cases it doesn't change significantly enough. regardless, it can't consistently add warmth unless there's analog circuitry, in which case you're better off just using a saturator, or you've set it up to saturate, in which case you're also better off using a saturator
eq after limiting
eq changes phase relationships, which may cause peaking even when attenuating, so putting an eq after a limiter basically undoes anything you'd use a limiter for in a mastering context. not to mention, if you're eqing during the mastering phase, you're already not mixing effectively
drums compressed, fixing with automation/transient shaping
if you're compressing effectively, you won't need to automate after compression. in fact, you can accentuate your transients with a compressor. i don't understand why you'd compress to remove peaks and then reintroduce them. that's more work and more artefacts to deal with
don't use compression on cymbals
this is completely arbitrary. in fact, usually there's lots of utility to compressing cymbals, as high frequencies naturally decay faster due to the higher friction.
highpass your cymbals
once again this is arbitrary. lower frequencies in cymbals are very important depending on the texture you're going for

whatever though, master however you please.

tender cipher
glad dawn
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except for loudness meter

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or eq-watching plug

wraith scaffold
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i just gain stage and then adjust compression until it's somewhere between -4.5 and -2 for mixing
i then add some eq for master, but i don't really know how to master if you guys do please teach me

wraith scaffold
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i'm on reaper tbhtpazolite

whole goblet
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always mix with headroom not exceeding -3dB

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-3dB is actually pretty loud already after mastering

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I'd recommend -4 to -6dB

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but honestly it's up to you on how you mix the song

stuck iris
stuck iris
stuck iris
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this thread is funny

glad dawn
# stuck iris no

(reason: "If you mix on master, the other tracks will have the same effect on what you did on it, and you'll be in difficult later. Like: bass too distorted, kicks compressed etc.
You can do more plugins on other tracks, but do not use master for mixing")

gaunt pike
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I just mix at 0db omg is it smth wrong i honestly im worried this is a bad habit -_-

gaunt pike
gaunt pike
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Oh and btw for the drums im using khs dynamics comp eich is meh I just think the initial click gies away with it

whole goblet
whole goblet
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limiter is another way to kill your transients

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good luck with that

stuck iris
stuck iris
# whole goblet still better safe than sorry

in any case, you can always add headroom assuming you're not baking it into a sound. unless you're coming in at 800dB or poorly gain-staging into 24-bit processing, there's no way you can't fix it later

stuck iris
# stuck iris i'm an audio engineer, i'm well aware of what a limiter does

also regardless, there are plenty of things you can do to preserve perceived dynamics even when fed into a limiter. if you're going to put a limiter on your master anyways, it's far better to mix into it and understand how your mix is going to sound with it on rather than putting it on afterwards and trying to fix things

stuck iris
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and why are you compressing them?

coarse hearth
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I mix while making the track lmao

lost oxide
indigo karma
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I know nothing about mixing other than a little anecdotal experience and what I learned from videos, but I have listened to enough amateur Camellia clone mixes to have a little advice:

  • DO NOT push your entire mix through a limiter so hard that your intro is as loud as your drop. This completely obliterates any effort at controlling energy in your track.
  • Your mastering will not save your track. It can ruin it (OTT on master), but it won't radically improve the sound in a perceptible way. Similarly, a good mix cannot save a track with bad composition or shoddy sound design. Focus more on what is important.
stuck iris
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yes

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limiting is more case-by-case but everything else is spot on

analog jungle
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I mix with the "Clip to Zero" method, which basically means I put a clipper or saturator at the end of every channel to catch transients and only use compressors and limiters for the feel. I start with the Kick and Snare at 0db and a clipper on the master, then heavily duck/sidechain everything else while they play to prevent going over zero, then I mix everything else based on those two anchor sounds. Works wonders for Dubstep and other heavy Bass Genres, there's a guy called Baphometrix on Youtube who makes tutorials about that method of mixing.

jaunty elbow
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Any kind of clipping will ruin the natural waveforms you into it unless it's for feel

analog jungle
# jaunty elbow Any kind of clipping will ruin the natural waveforms you into it unless it's for...

Wrong, our human hearing is nonlinear as well, it distorts, our brains are built to account for that to a degree, so we assume that a clipped transient is still there to a certain degree, as long as you just clip little transients you literally won't hear the distortion in a busy mix, while a limiter will always make transients feel less powerful, because it literally just makes them less loud, some instruments can't handle distortion very well, so it isn't a solution for everything, but most heavy bass and synthesizer sounds can absolutely take the punishment and if you clip every element on its own terms, you get less intermodulation distortion, while if you clip the same amount on the master alone, all the intermodulation will muddy up your mix. Try layering two saturated sinewaves vs saturating two sinewaves together, it sounds a lot different and the two together generate a lot more harmonics. It's part physics, part psychoacoustics.

still heron
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i don't

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at least, not a lot

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yeah there may be clipping but at the end of the day it sounds good

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basically

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only when it sounds like dogshit otherwise

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though i personally like clipping

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it can sound lovely

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its taboo-ness also makes me like it a bit more

analog jungle
still heron
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what mixing

analog jungle
still heron
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k

analog jungle
crude sonnet
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ai be helpful

whole goblet
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besides clipping to 0db basically makes every sound playing past 0db sound like dog shit

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which makes the mastering stage completely pointless

analog jungle
stuck iris
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this thread is such a trainwreck of misinformation

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ctz is a somewhat viable pre-master/mastering technique but it doesn't have much bearing on mixing

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baphometrix has some interesting content but i feel like she leaves out important details a lot of the time

fickle skiff
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I don't really have any proven knowledge of mixing, but I do hear plenty of "professional" artists dropping shit mixes designed to sound good on cell phones but that sound deep fried on even a half-assed listening setup

I only know when I hear something that sounds good and something that doesn't

(though I usually have to step away for a day or two from something I'm working on and then listen again, because after working on something for a while, my brain starts fucking with me and hearing things that aren't there or not hearing things that are)

fickle skiff
# crude sonnet ai be helpful

I'm not writing music for robots to listen to

it's not "ai", it's just humans designing fancy computer programs to predict the things that they already want the computers to predict, so in the end you're getting human intelligence

glad dawn
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tbh don't base on current AIs, it's just like a baby with only a bit of knowledge showing you smth (also machine learning < a kid/person learning), therefore go your own way and create nice songs, do nice mix

tender cipher
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noah is good at mixing he is mixer

whole goblet
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the mixening

fickle skiff
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McSir

crimson drum
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Personally, I just switch to mono, do some funky eq, and then go to master

wanton beacon
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While I'm sort of in the midst of figuring this out, the main thing I found was to really is to gain stage. The rest I'm figuring out (So please research these topics as I'm not an expert or have a PhD in music), and exceptions can apply to each thing I noted, but, from what I know:

  1. Gain Staging (by ear).
    Or at least use white noise first (increasing each level from zero until you can hear it clearly) before adjusting to taste. Also make sure nothing is too loud and cut out those harsh frequencies with an EQ.

  2. No Unintentional Distortion. (excluding experiments.)
    (e.g. being over compressed by a limiter due to all the sounds being 10 db+ [e.g. your haha funny loud memes])

  3. Make Space.
    EQ out parts of some elements to make space for others.
    (e.g. Mid bass doesn't take up Sub Bass area for less Mud.)

  4. Cohesion.
    While this is loosely defined, I think of it as how an orchestra plays their instruments in tandem with one another, and the producer is the orchestrator.
    Sometimes you may need to use silence as a tool, other times you might want a wall of sound. But, it needs to have some level of cohesion.

  • You may need to choose which elements are in focus and which are not.

  • Which elements should be in and not within the track. More than likely, you'll be choosing to rid of something since sometimes, less can be more. And, what actually sounds good to you. Use reference tracks too.

  • You want your fundamental sounds to be heard. Usually these may be mono as mono signals comprise of, "the bare bones" of a track.

  1. Panning.
    This is to give each element it's breathing room. (Stereo wise.) (e.g. Harmonies with vocals being panned (100% hard left and right/50% left and right))

  2. Headroom.
    This is not because your DAW has a hard-encoded limit at 10 db+. (Exceptions may apply.)
    [You can go above and beyond 11 db but your ears will bleed.]

No, this is because you want some so that you can use a multi-band compressor to increase the bands volumes just before they distort at say, 0 db.

Basically, lowering the volume of everything, then having make up gain through the multi-band compressor, touching the point where it may become distorted.

(This doesn't work with all m-b compressors)

But, this in turn helps everything not kill your ears. However, there may be phasing issues sometimes and sometimes you may not want this method of boosting sounds.

This is basically saying, "Mix into a compressor."

  1. Limiter.
    Mainly for cutting off transients, but it can also be used for distorting or making a sound "louder" or saturate it, depending on your limiter type. The sound going into it (on master channels) should not be louder than what it limits and requires headroom to control dynamics. Otherwise you'll get a distorted and very loud track. So make sure your track initially doesn't exceed the threshold of say, e.g. 0 db without a limiter, then put the limiter on it.

Rather than having your track push out 10 db+ and then putting a limiter on it, which will only distort it very, very hardly.

The TL;DR is: "Mix into the limiter."

  1. Saturation.
    I guess you could use a limiter or multi-band compressor but there's tube saturator plugins out there for that, so they'll save you. It can distort but it is good for basses if that's what you're going for.

[Sidenote: The "Mix into" parts can also mean to mix before you turn everything down to then apply make-up gain in the compressor or limiter.]

Also sometimes you don't even need to use most of these things to have a quality track if you have the right sounds. You probably really would have to Gain stage and focus on cohesion.

Most of all, is to research, experiment, try out different things and see what works for you and each of your songs. Since a lot of these can be a case by case basis, except for say, Gain Staging and Cohesion.

And to have fun.

researching 1000 mixing tutorials can brain ache, but applying them can help sometimes

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This is kinda what I learned for the most part.

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So.

fickle skiff
# wanton beacon While I'm sort of in the midst of figuring this out, the main thing I found was ...

Thank you, this is a wide range of topics, specific insights, I think it helps to hear this from your perspective (as compared to someone who might have most of this on autopilot from practice)

And it's awesome to have this condensed wisdom in writing; will be referencing as I stumble through most of that stuff ("what that moon and stars said about that again?"). Thank you for suffering through 1000 mixing tutorials so that I didn't have to ❤️