#Luigi Fundies

205 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

foggy canyon
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Who are you requesting?
A Luigi Coach

**What is your time zone?
EST

What specifically do you need help with?
Luigi takes good fundies, so if I can get his down, then that'll improve me as a player in general

When are you typically available?
My schedule is here: #"Seven (M-Brawler, King K Rool, M-Swordfighter)"

How long have you been playing the game for?
Only started really playing in Ultimate, currently have around 500 hours

Can I VC?
Yes.

Tags: Neutral, Combos, Fundies, Can VC

The most recent I'll be free is Thursday next week, I forgot my switch somewhere🥀

silver apex
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Luigi and fundies in the same sentence 😂😂😂😂😂😂

smoky fog
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Lowk I can teach you this Ngl

chrome sparrow
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Luigi neutral is spamming grab over and over again that is not fundies

foggy canyon
rugged wagon
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No offense but Luigi is like in the bottom 10 characters I'd pick to improve my fundies

hollow stump
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^

foggy canyon
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The reason I picked Luigi is because he isn't like any of the other characters I play

rugged wagon
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That's fair, but fundies

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He's not fundies

foggy canyon
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Hence Luigi Fundies

foggy canyon
rugged wagon
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Fair enough

rugged wagon
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Luigi is uh

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Quite the opposite

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Like no other character fishes for grab as much as Luigi and his movement is super weird

foggy canyon
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Which is why I wanna learn him, if I can get good at his odd movement, then characters with normal movement will be easier to learn

rugged wagon
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That's not really how it works

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In fact I think it works the opposite way

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You'll learn how to move better with slow characters

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Like Ganon maybe

foggy canyon
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I mean, I guess thats why my k.rool is still better than my brawler

rugged wagon
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Yea fast movement is only better if you know how to use it

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Sonic for example is straight up too fast for me to play, along with requiring more patience than I enjoy but still

foggy canyon
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Ive been told that my patience is pretty alright

rugged wagon
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Jr has average-below average mobility besides Side B making it a weird case but Jr is also like the opposite of fundies

slender vessel
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If you're looking to learn fundies proper, then there's usually two routes for that:

  • Using a character who is more "normal" or "boring" (Mario, Ganon)
  • Using pure random character selection that prevents you from learning any one playstyle easily and instead forces you to generalise to fundies
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Alternatively, you can also hold B-less matches which removes a lot of the specials jank that interferes with learning fundies, but I would personally recommend, based on experience, that if you have plenty of free time, do randoms, and if you don't have plenty of free time, pick a boring character.

hollow stump
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I think playing random is a horrible way to learn fundies if you're not already decent

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You sync with your main and learn a lot faster once you get comfortable with their moves and mobility

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It lets you practice decision making with acquired knowledge

slender vessel
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As someone who stuck strictly with Duck Hunt for years, I found randoms improved my fundies because a lot of the character specific gimmicks I was relying upon weren't there.

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(And I even used Ganon to try to balance that out as my 'fundies main' character.)

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Randoms prevents me from learning character specific gimmicks easily, and instead forces me to come up with more fundamental, generalised gameplans.

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Absolutely awful to do though, I agree, lots of stock losses, but man did it push me out of my comfort zone.

hollow stump
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Even if you believe it was effective in your case, not only does this person only have 500 hours, you likely could have achieved better success improving your fundamentals and breaking overreliance by simply playing one or 2 fundies based characters semi frequently rather than random, swapping too often is a massive waste of time for newer players and I advocate that he absolutely doesn't go down that road yet. If he wants to practice skills like making a gameplan, getting consistent execution or the like, he should absolutely be sticking to a few characters.

slender vessel
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I did the semi-frequently thing with Ganon. Problem was all I did was learn the other character's niche specialties and was not forced into learning fundies.

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I also think of fundies as character independent, so whatever he learns in one should be applicable to all. Learning one character implies character specific traits. But up to them to decide their learning course.

hollow stump
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Ganon is a cheesy wifi heavy so that's not super surprising, and yeah developing applicable skills that translate to most of the cast is still best accomplished by limiting who you play, learning spacing with correctly with one swordie lets you do so with all the rest of them once you get used to their mobility, learning up air ladders on Mario helps you perform them on multiple other characters once you get used to their fall speed. Realistically swapping often means you'll learn incredibly slowly because you'll be stuck performing surface level plays on the entire cast instead of deepening your understanding of the game and it's mechanics, once you reach a solid level with just 1 or 2 fundies character your whole cast will level up at the same time, probably about 10 to 20 times faster than cycling the cast.

slender vessel
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What characters would you consider to be fundies if not Ganon?

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In my opinion a lot of the roster have gimmicks or quirky playstyles.

hollow stump
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There are a lot of gimmicks but think about it this way

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When you play ganon

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The game is over in very few interactions, you get hit and gimped at tiny percents or you hit them with 3 stray moves and they explode

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Especially at lower levels players will be compensated for using random smash attacks

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Since his are so huge and wifi sucks

slender vessel
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Fair assessment. Who do you consider on the roster to be fundies?

hollow stump
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Most swordies, spacies, Mario, the links, Samus the pits, I'd be excluding heavies and gimmick characters like Kaz Icies Min min ect

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Characters like Palu or joker or gren I'd also put here

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Falcon too

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Perfectly fine

slender vessel
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I don't know why, I never consider swordies to be fundies, I get why they are, just, in my brain, doesn't register (I blame the disjointed hitbox).

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Falcon is a fair shout.

hollow stump
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But some of these like gren or sheik are a bit hard to practice for beginners so I wouldn't recommend them

slender vessel
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Maybe I should adopt him.

hollow stump
slender vessel
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I know a lot of people consider swordies fundies, but I feel like the disjoint is almost a gimmick in and of itself because it's like 'hey, I can attack without being punished for whiffing', which seems, I dunno, unfundies to me. But thats my bias personal opinion. I am wrong in the face of the consensus.

hollow stump
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Usually swordies embody the middle ground between having more range than brawlers but worse frame data so they need to space, worse range than zoners but better mobility so they can close in

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Also moves are very punishable on whiff ngl, just not on shield

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Assuming they spaced it well

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But if you're getting hit on your shield as a Zoner you failed to keep them out

slender vessel
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Oh I get them. I consider them the anti-brawler in a sense. Just how my brain sees it.

hollow stump
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I mean they can be

slender vessel
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But yeah I should adopt Falcon, would be a natural progression from Ganon.

hollow stump
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But given how powerful the combo games of most brawlers are

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It's more like they play keepaway and win neutral 6 times

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Then they get hit by crazy combo move and get bopped in 2 interactions

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So it's pretty standard

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Especially since swordies don't have kill throws either

slender vessel
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Yeah, makes sense. I want to kinda say it's rock paper scissors but it kinda feels like projectiles have initial advantage over both swordies and brawlers where they're forced to approach, so it's a bit of a messed up RPS.

rugged wagon
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Random is maybe a test to see how far your fundies have come but learning fundies with random I don't really rate

hollow stump
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I think you can have fundies playing brawlers like Mario or a Zoner like Samus or a swordie like Lucina

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I think all of these playstyles are fundamental

slender vessel
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I often find beginners will default down to the easiest, most generic playstyle they can find. For Samus, that boils down to spamming rockets and charge shot, and not say, making use of fair, grab, or even ledge trap setups.

hollow stump
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It can be fine

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But it's rarely the solution

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Random is more useful for upper mid level players who want to practice on the fly adaptation

slender vessel
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True, but I'd like to remind I did present several options.

hollow stump
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So they can boost refresh rate

rugged wagon
rugged wagon
hollow stump
slender vessel
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Just I withdraw my statement advising Ganon because Alleis makes a great point about how all or nothing the match is.

hollow stump
slender vessel
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(I feel like Ganon forces fundie responses though if used right; you can't just mash on him if he can overpower; still useful for coaching)

slender vessel
hollow stump
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Ganon can help you practice mindfulness in disadvantage at least

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Same way Ike or Ridley might force you to do the same

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Because you waste one resource and you lose

slender vessel
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Ganon teaching footstool recovery and kills is just chef's kiss

hollow stump
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Footstool is definitely underused by everyone

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Including me

rugged wagon
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I think Ganon really focuses on certain aspects of fundies like patience, disadvantage but also he's not a fundies character in general imo

slender vessel
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Very situational so difficult to use if your opponent has a working brain

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The footstool stuff, I mean

hollow stump
rugged wagon
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I feel like Lucina and Wolf for example are almost pure fundies

rugged wagon
hollow stump
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Yeah I mean wolf and Lucina are usually the first 2 I recommend to newcomers

rugged wagon
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Ye same

hollow stump
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Depends though because some people wanna play a Zoner so we can try something else

rugged wagon
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Well I recommend going with who they want first, but if they're stuck or wanna learn fundies Lucina and Wolf are probably best

hollow stump
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Yeah, assuming they have no clue at all

rugged wagon
hollow stump
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Yep

slender vessel
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Luigi not great at fundies because of how... weird most of his moves are. My Troll Luigi only exists purely to spite the idea of grab 02D and is totally not practical.

rugged wagon
hollow stump
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Personally I think if you're playing fundies Luigi you're doing yourself a disservice

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He's supposed to be a bastard

rugged wagon
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Exactly

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Same with chars like Steve and Kazuya

slender vessel
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I find it is the perfect troll. So many expect the grab 02D stuff that when a Luigi doesn't do it, it mangles their brain.

rugged wagon
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You're throwing if you play them like a fundies char tbh

hollow stump
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Tbf that's fine but that's like a for fun character

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Like how I use no grenade snake

rugged wagon
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Ye, as a for fun pick it doesn't matter

slender vessel
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Luigi side-B mind games is a sight to behold.

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Will I or won't I release the side-B (and will it or won't it be a misfire?)

hollow stump
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I go for down throw misfire at 40

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Heheha

rugged wagon
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😭

slender vessel
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With VC it's fun. 'Nah, I don't feel like it' as Luigi pants during his side-B cooldown.

hollow stump
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Ngl I'm salty I woke up with a random fever

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I don't wanna be sick again smh

slender vessel
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Oh?

rugged wagon
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Damn I'm sorry to hear that

hollow stump
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All good, as soon as I finish my work shift

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Imma go pass out in my bed

slender vessel
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I guess you must have...
Night Fever
Night Fever 🎶

hollow stump
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About 90% of the time

slender vessel
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I find some people really enjoy VC matches with me for some reason. Bonus points if it's random dittos or stupid stuff like DK dittos.

hollow stump
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Yeah that's the best way to do it

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Well

slender vessel
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I'm terrible outside of Duck Hunt and a select few characters though.

hollow stump
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Most of my games are randubs

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My friends like doing that as well so

slender vessel
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My character RNG is evil, it always give me awful selections like Steve and Min Min and I absolutely cannot play those gimmicks 😭

rugged wagon
hollow stump
slender vessel
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Duck Hunt requires a degree.

hollow stump
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Everyone else I shouldn't be horrible with

slender vessel
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A degree in 'what projectile beats what when'

rugged wagon
hollow stump
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See my degree in projectile beating

rugged wagon
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I think Jr is decently difficult offline, but not DH level

hollow stump
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Is called Link nair

rugged wagon
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Based

slender vessel
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Link nair along with Doc nair

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Bane of my life

hollow stump
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If it brings you any solace

rugged wagon
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Link is sick

hollow stump
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You can rest easy at night knowing that in 5 billion years

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When the sun goes supernova

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Link nair will still be around to trade with it

slender vessel
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LOL

rugged wagon
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😂

slender vessel
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Mod Smash

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Make Link nair beat final smashes

rugged wagon
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True!

hollow stump
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Lmfao

rugged wagon
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Does Link Nair beat Minecart?

hollow stump
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Sephiroth : Ends the multiverse

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Link nair

slender vessel
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I bet it does

hollow stump
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Imma stop you right there chief

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Yeah link nair destroys minecart

rugged wagon
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Based

hollow stump
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Minecart actually doesn't have that much armor

slender vessel
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DH's only option to link nair is oos nair and... that's often sourspot which is punishable by Link. Awful metadata. Booo.

hollow stump
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Around 7%

rugged wagon
slender vessel
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Explains why frisbee does nothing to do it. 3% damage.

hollow stump
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Your main counterplay vs link nair

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Is dash back into can

rugged wagon
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It's on Steve so it doesn't matter but still

hollow stump
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Instead of shielding or swinging

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Because we'll just explode ourselves

rugged wagon
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What's Jr's counterplay

slender vessel
hollow stump
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If the link is doing fullhops you do Shorthop up air and combo, if he's doing double jumps you do side B spinout, if he's doing shorthops you just rising aerial and take the trade since you're heavier

rugged wagon
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Ohh interesting

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I actually didn't know Up Air could beat it

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I probably get a combo off that too

hollow stump
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Usually with fullhop by the time he's landing it will be weak hit

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And you can get double up air into bair

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Or if there's a plat maybe 4

rugged wagon
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Peak

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Thanks, that's actually really useful

hollow stump
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Np

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Alternatively dash back setup mechakoopa is fine

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You force him to jump or shield when he lands

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No one wins the interaction

rugged wagon
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Yee true

hollow stump
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But you make him act