#Live quickplay coaching needed

496 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tender locust
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Who are you requesting? (ping the specific coach/"character" coach/"neutral or etc" coach)
Coaches with a lot of experience on quickplay or a doc coach
What is your time zone?
EST
What specifically do you need help with?
I need to know what I keep on doing wrong on quickplay as I want to go on elite smash
When are you typically available?
2 - 10 pm on weekdays 11 am - 12 am on weekends
How long have you been playing the game for?
About 1 or 2 years
Can I VC? (optional)
Yes

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Live quickplay coaching needed

lean chasm
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My internet would scream at me for a streaming watch session, so I'll let another coach handle that part, but would you be up for a 1-to-1 assessment with myself?

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You're more likely to get feedback if you cherry pick a VOD that shows a result you don't understand in a match, but I have a feeling if I just do a direct assessment I'd gain a lot of insight that way.

tender locust
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Which I get that I had feedback for too but Idk if using pills too little is the only problem

lean chasm
tender locust
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Plus they only get a smaller picture of what im doing wrong because I could do different things in the next match that I wasnt supposed to do before I just dont like vod reviews Im sorry

lean chasm
tender locust
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But a 1 on 1 sounds not too bad until another coach arrives

lean chasm
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Are you available now, by any chance?

tender locust
tender locust
lean chasm
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Alright, lemme grab my setup. I won't be doing VC currently as I'm not in a position for it, but I will write up my usual detailed feedback between and after matches.

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BRB

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Apologies

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Was having controller issues

lean chasm
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Let me know if you have any issues

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I will be using Ganon, feel free to use whatever tactics you want, including underhanded ones

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Please make sure stage selection is set to True random (top left in selection, Smash ball looking logo)

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I have legal stages set so it won't choose any non-legal stages

tender locust
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GG

lean chasm
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Most glaring flaw is you always recover high using tornado almost immediately

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By the third time I had a response for it loaded

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Yes, Dr Mario recovery is garbage, but you need to make use of stalling in air to mix up your positionals

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Good d-air read, didn't fall for my BS off-stage

tender locust
lean chasm
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Simply delay when you fire off tornado

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Your goal is to grab ledge, not necessarily get on top of stage

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Biggest issue seems to be your combination of panicked retreats and tendency to try to "scramble"

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Dr Mario doesn't do great in close range, especially not against the likes of Ganon

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He has to use pill to interrupt or suppress

tender locust
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But in the art of doctor mario thats apparently recommended

lean chasm
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Strangely at the start you did use pill, I shielded it and you grabbed, which was good

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But the second time I did that you, uh, attacked shield rather than grabbed

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Your grab wasn't bad, your attempt to use tornado as follow up wasn't ideal

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Wasn't true at that percent

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Art of Dr Mario could be considered a basics rough guideline for Smash for newbies

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And you want to move onto advanced techniques and approaches ASAP

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Lemme go Dr Mario

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Word of warning, mine is garbage

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But it should give you some idea of what movement patterns you're after

tender locust
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Sorry I was taking notes

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Gg

lean chasm
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You don't need to keep saying GG

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It's a coaching session

tender locust
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Oh okay

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Sorry just like being respectful

lean chasm
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True, you can say GGs at the end of the matches, easier and a lot of people do that instead

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So notice what my Dr Mario was doing

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ignore the fact I kept throwing pills the wrong way, the controller is borked and loves to pivot B for whatever reason

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I did things like:

  • Shorthop a lot to evade
  • Shield to tank hits, then responded with things like grab, nair, down-B oos (out-of-shield)
  • Pill to disrupt your off-stage movement
  • Up-B to deny recovery/contest movement
  • F-air to punish bad moves
  • Used Tornado on-stage to make U shaped movements to make my positioning less predictable
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I wasn't able to demo everything Dr Mario can do, like driftback down-B on ledge

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Also I notice you don't use DI

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My backthrow should not have killed you that early

tender locust
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I do I pull my stick downwards

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I guess not that time

lean chasm
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DI isn't just pulling your stick downwards

tender locust
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A lot of times things fly over my head :*(

lean chasm
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There's all sorts of ways to optimise DI, that video covers the basics

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Watch it after our session ends

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To save time

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Most basic DI tip: DI towards your opponent when being launched

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Better (I hate this controller)

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Notice I made use of tornado to contest some of your traps and setups

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Tornado has a slight windbox (inwards) and can outprioritise certain moves

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But don't expect me to know which ones or when

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I don't main Dr Mario

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Resist the urge to roll dodge

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Make more use of the shorthops and movement

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Good adaptation of using tornado under plat copying the demo

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Can use it like a u-air as well to pursue airborne opponents

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Mash B to increase height or don't mash B to let it drop

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So there's three ways you can shorthop

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Flick, which you flick the jump button, which is called manual shorthop

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Double-jump button, which is called auto-shorthopping (and is always consistent)

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And aerial shorthop, where you press both jump and attack (but not special!) at the same time

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As a beginner you'll want to make use of the auto-shorthops first

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And practice flick shorthopping in Training mode and develop a muscle memory

tender locust
lean chasm
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Can take weeks, months or years. For me it took years.

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Press both jump buttons (usually X + Y)

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If your controller only has one jump button you'll have to rebind a button to do it

tender locust
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Oh I dont have that hold on 😭

lean chasm
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When you get time, I suggest reading the section on customising controls

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Lots of helpful tips and suggestions

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Try out your auto-shorthopping options

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I'll wait

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Let me know when you want to fight

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So the counter to the tornado I was trying to show you

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Was cape

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So if you know someone will tornado onto or towards stage high

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You cape 'em

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As for the d-throw up-B it's not a very safe combo. Its a "true" combo but leaves you vulnerable and is only safe to use on plat stages (under the plat, specifically)

tender locust
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Mind if I change controls again my dumbass thought x and y would be a good idea

lean chasm
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I believe JaZaR is the top tier Dr Mario whose VODs you can watch for insight

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Go for it

tender locust
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So my case y and left trigger right

lean chasm
lean chasm
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Is tilt jump disabled or enabled on your controls?

tender locust
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Disabled

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I looked up things about it before

lean chasm
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Okay, lemme show you a few tricks involving microspacing (or microwalks)

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So this is a training session

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Hold up on your stick, then slowly move it left or right whilst holding up

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Hold up

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You shouldn't be dash dancing

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Up on the stick

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Slightly left, slightly right

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Until you get it as smooth as I am doing

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That is a micro-space

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Hardest part

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Do that

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Into an f-smash

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Okay, easy part

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Hold up

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But this time do shorthop aerials

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Then slowly move left or right whilst holding up

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So I'm holding up + jump + attack (jump + att for auto shorthop aerial)

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What you'll find is you can micro-space your u-airs

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If you fair the stick has gone too far

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Might seem silly but

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Makes attacks so much easier

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Okay, lets continue

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Fighting

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I meant

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Sorry

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Can you just confirm you can see this by teabaggging?

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Okay, so fight me

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Don't worry about percent

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So when being grabbed

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You should try to predict what is the most likely throw direction

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And DI against that

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So I suspect you held towards me whilst grabbed

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Which just made you die sooner

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As that was towards blastzone

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You wanted to hold away (as the throw direction is most likely towards blastzone)

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Away from blastzone is another good shout for DI but you''ll have to work out nearest

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There's no solid rule (diag down is another)

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Also don't forget to mash out of the grab using buttons

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Ignore me

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My stick is too borked

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Supposed to be a run off down-B back to plat

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Okay I can't demo it due to stick issues

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But it's run along mid plat, down-B onto top plat

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From there when you hit top plat

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Sorry, not up-B

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And from top plat, down-B again

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K, damage me

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And we can fight

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You get the idea

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That was a footstool

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Footstool snuffing my recovery won you that match

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Keep it up, soon I'll have to stop using Dr Mario and use someone else

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Okay

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So fair is unsafe to use against shield

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I can just snuff out your options by using oos nair

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Which for me is as simple as jump + A

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And if you had anything truly threatening I can just buffer down-B oos

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You need to take advantage of air dodge to help with recovery off-stage

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You can use it if you get launched far and high by air dodging towards stage immediately (as soon as you get launched)

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By the time the air dodge ends you should be able to tornado, and then jump, and then up-B

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You died as a result of getting too greedy off-stage and going out of range

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If I'm a high percent, don't feel the urge to rush in to try to kill me

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Just throw out more frequent smash attacks on-stage

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Or use faster moves like

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oos bair, shorthop bair, or even tornado

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That was a diag down airdodge

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You want horizontal (so left or right)

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That d-air you did was cleeeaaan

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Very nice edge guard

tender locust
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Thx

lean chasm
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Okay, pill/projectile basics

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Assuming we get a nice plat stage, if not, fighting

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(Battlefield or Small Battlefield or PS2 only)

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Nice

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Okay, so when throwing out your projectile

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A lot of people try to move left and right to adjust their projectile

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But yours is diagonal bounce

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So that's irrelevant

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You can jump and throw

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or

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Jump, bounce on plat

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Notice my jump height

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Dictates where the pill goes

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If low

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Ground

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If short hop, ground high

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If double hop, plat high

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I can change the trajectory based on how I jump

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So when I edge guard you with a pill

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You'll notice I often jump before

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What I do is throw pill after I jump

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Not during

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It allows you to pick when to launch it as you fall

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Which lets me dictate roughly where it goes

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Pill can be beaten with an attack

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Keep throwing them at me

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Your nair lingers

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So it works best

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Works well on certain other projectiles

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I don't know the list, so don't expect me to

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Okay, we fight

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Needed more smash attacks

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Also don't nair against pill all the time

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It's just an option to be aware of

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You can also use cape, shield, shorthop, or even a tornado

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Or heck even a bair

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Once more from me as Dr Mario then I'll switch

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My stick non-stop pivoting me away

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Ignore those capes as well

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Most of them are just Bs my stick drift converts into side-Bs for whatever reason

tender locust
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I cant tell if im getting better or not ngl

lean chasm
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You're improving

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Lets see if you've absorbed the lessons so far

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(Your DI does still need work but the video will help with that)

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K, so as Dr Mario

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You need to be making heavier usage of the pill

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Some Dr Marios I've seen just go

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Pill->Aerial->Pill->Aerial and so on

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You can't directly contest heavies

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You need to pill them first

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Pill to interrupt

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Then attack

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Better

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Needs more pill interrupts and less scrambles

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Ganon this time, as my DK combo knowledge isn't great

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Also if I keep shielding

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That is a type of interrupt

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You have to try to force me out of shield (bait or grab or something)

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I think I went a bit too overboard there

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Make sure your pills hit

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If you miss, you'll get punished for it

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Gotta stay away from the ledge if Ganon is a stock up

tender locust
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Wow

lean chasm
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Or if he's high damage (and equal stocks, except last)

tender locust
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Worth it

lean chasm
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Okay so a few tips

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One, stop holding up-smash when I'm off-stage and nowhere near ledge

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I'm never going to roll on if you always pick the exact same ledge guarding option

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Don't commit to options when guarding ledge, react to their getup options

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Two, if Ganon appears before you after you hit him with a pill, the best response option is f-smash

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Especially that edge guard where you hit me with pill but then threw another pill into my face

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Pill is only good for gimping recoveries

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You want to land the hit either BEFORE they execute up-B or AFTER they jump

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You will get at most 2 attempts

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Anything more than that is usually an error or spam

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Three, good bair, but risky

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Learn what ledge trumping is

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Not right now, obviously

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Works well with bair

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Ledge trump->bair

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I respect the trump attempt

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But you'll need to master instant ledge trump before it becomes viable

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(That will require muscle memory and Training mode practice)

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Don't worry about trying it out for now

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Just practice ledge guarding without committing to a smash attack

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PILL

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PILL TO INTERUPT

crystal sandal
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I was pinged in this

lean chasm
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Ya

crystal sandal
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Why🐻

lean chasm
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Was in match

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For your Dr Mario

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It's better than mine

crystal sandal
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Oh

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Uhh yeah

lean chasm
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They haven't quite figured the art of using Pill interrupts

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They pill spam or don't pill at all

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And I don't know any of the Dr Mario combos

crystal sandal
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Spamming pill when they’re far away isn’t bad since they have to deal with it one way or another

lean chasm
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True but in this case I mean spamming it at close range (or when I could have just been killed with f-smash)

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Or uh, trying to go "hands on" with Ganon at point blank

crystal sandal
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Yeah ok

lean chasm
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They need to be shown the routine Dr Marios do

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With the pill->aerial alternating attack cycles

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I've seen it dozens of times against my DH but my stick drift is ruining any capacity for me to B

tender locust
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Why do I feel like I screwed up so bad that its considered annoying

lean chasm
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Every B for me is a pivot

lean chasm
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You're taking matches and you're improving but you're still making rookie mistakes with Dr Mario

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Gotta master the Pill, it's his core strength

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Unlike a lot of projectiles it interrupts if it hits

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Creates hit delays if attacks clank

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Which gives you an opening to land hits like nair

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If iKO can host an arena you can learn their Dr Mario

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Leagues better than mine

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In the meantime, we fight

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Try to throw pill

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Then hit me with a nair IF the pill connects

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If I shield

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Pill then grab

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Pill, then delay tornado

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Tornado

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Not nair

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Down-B

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Okay, we need to go over ledge guarding basics

tender locust
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Sorry cant see chat while playing

lean chasm
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Well, sometimes you respond to chat and sometimes you don't

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I just beat you up with Ganon instead

tender locust
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DW I have discord opened on one side and elgato with another now

lean chasm
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Okay, training session this time

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I will try to fight through this stick drift and show you some tips on ledge guarding

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When people do attack getups, every character has a different range

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Instead of aiming for their body

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Try to catch the part that swings out

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Use f-smash

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Use micro-spacing

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You have to try to charge or react

tender locust
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mb

lean chasm
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Right, so other options

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Include neutral getup

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Roll on

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I hate this stick drift

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Imagine that's an up-smash

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Catch both the roll on and get up

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Position more where I am

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Getting better

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Right, so roll-on distance varies

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For each character

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Bigger they are, easier to catch the roll on

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You will have to adjust where you stand

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Based on how far they can attack getup

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Or how far they can roll-on

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I would demo more clearly but my stick is messing with my inputs crazy mad

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Every u-smash becomes an f-smash for me

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Right, now for dealing with those who stay on ledge too long

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Short hop d-air

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You go on ledge

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I'll show you

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Slightly off from ledge

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Not on it

tender locust
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Bruh

lean chasm
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Confidence

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Too late on the d-air

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Too far off ledge

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So initiate it whilst above ledge

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Better

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You want to hit my hands

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Rather than my head

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Over the ledge

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Not on it

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It doesn't go through

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Very slightly over the ledge

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Much better

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Now try hitting me there with a pill

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It can be done but the aiming is tricky

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Use micro spacing

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Much much closer

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Lemme go Dr Mario

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I'll show you how to pill

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Pill

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F-smash

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Hold it maybe

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There

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Nintendo online

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Tin can and string mode enabled

tender locust
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Great Value wifi

crystal sandal
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I can play now btw if they wanted to play me

lean chasm
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Sure, give us about 1 minute

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Timed match unlimited stocks training

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That cape didn't work at that percent? Booo

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Okay @crystal sandal If you host an arena, I want to go show Duck Hunt stuff to the megaman player

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GGs @tender locust

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This is where we part ways

tender locust
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GG

crystal sandal
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Alright

lean chasm
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Be sure to watch the videos after your session with iKO

crystal sandal
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What did Underdog tell you btw? I wouldnt want to say the same thing as him

tender locust
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A lot

lean chasm
crystal sandal
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Yeah so I should teach them the basics basically

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Alr

lean chasm
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Areas I didn't teach were:

  • Pill follow-ups
  • Combos
  • Ledge guarding techniques specific to Dr Mario
  • Anything about move priority (don't know anything about that)
crystal sandal
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Kk

lean chasm
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Their edge guarding is pretty decent, so I skipped that for now but they could do with being taught how to properly f-air spike.

crystal sandal
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Fair doesnt spike

lean chasm
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They use d-air and b-air currently, which isn't bad but not his peak

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Oh

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Am I thinking of Mario

crystal sandal
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Yes

tender locust
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Yep

worldly blaze
lean chasm
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Shows how little I know

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Man three people

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Only Dr Mario things I mentioned were nair and tornado oos

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I know up-B is as well but it's typically a terrible option as far as I understand it

crystal sandal
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Up b out of shield is better in every scenario lol

lean chasm
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Again, shows how little I know about Dr Mario

crystal sandal
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Good range, frame 3, kills earlier

lean chasm
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I assumed the up-B end lag was fatal

crystal sandal
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It’s good

lean chasm
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And this is why we need someone who knows Dr Mario. I can only give the basics.

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Besides the pill struggles, they learn quickly.

crystal sandal
lean chasm
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I'd also suggest going random against them at some point after you show them Dr Mario tech

crystal sandal
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Ye

lean chasm
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As I'm sure their character mu knowledge is missing

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@tender locust If you're too busy for the session with iKO you'll have to say

tender locust
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Gg

lean chasm
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You uh, don't need to say GG, it is a coaching session

tender locust
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I feel like I grow better then worse then better then worse and so on

tender locust
lean chasm
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iKO is really good

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So you will probably feel like you're doing worse than you did against me

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But that's normal

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iKO beats me

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Unless they're Ken

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Then my Duck Hunt is winning >:)

crystal sandal
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My ken goes hard it’s just impossible to get in

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🗿

lean chasm
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I'll take whatever few character wins I can get

crystal sandal
tender locust
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Yeah I know

lean chasm
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Yeah you might have to give tips on Dr Mario recovery techniques

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I didn't mention any as I don't know what's optimal other than to 'mash B for tornado'

crystal sandal
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That’s basically it

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Usually you want to keep your tornado if you can

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Don’t use it if you don’t need to

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As well as your jump

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Since they’re your only options

lean chasm
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I mentioned the air dodge towards stage thing but that's situational

crystal sandal
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If you have to use it then now use it

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Down b is good at edgeguarding too

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So your pills are your main neutral move right

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When you hit them with it you have a lot of combos you can do if you’re close enough

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Including up air, forward air, back air (rar), up b, down b

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If they shield the pill you can grab them for it, and from there it all depends on the % of your opponent

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If they’re at low % you’ll want to down throw into up air, down throw into up b, etc

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Mid % down throw down b starts working

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Higher % just back throw or fthrow to send them offstage and get a ledgetrap

tender locust
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Yikes

crystal sandal
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Happens lol

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If you can’t hit your pill you can also go for landing back air in neutral

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It’s a good move that combos into itself and dash grab

tender locust
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Dear god that was even more brutal

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And thats on me for getting distracted in the backgroud lol

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Brb im gonna get a drink

crystal sandal
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Lol rip

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Ok

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Your down tilt is also good since you can combo with it

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Combo down tilt with up air, back air (rar), up b, etc

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Down tilt into up b kills at higher %

tender locust
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Back

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Wow what a game

crystal sandal
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Truly

tender locust
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Btw if you get snake i might nope that one 😭

crystal sandal
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Lmao fair

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For the rest of the process it’s mainly the bad habits in your gameplay that we’ll work on

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When you get hit, don’t try to mash a move to get me off since I can just keep hitting you most of the time

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You can jump or airdodge too

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If you want to get out of a combo and want to use a move, use down b, since it has armor

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When you want to approach with a pill I’d recommend learning how to b reverse

tender locust
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Sorry for the worsening gameplay btw Idk whats getting into me

crystal sandal
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Usually when you do pills you want to do it in the air since you can use your air drift to not be stuck during the move

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And when you b reverse you kinda move forward with your pill

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Then you have more time to approach

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Well, are you familiar with what a b reverse is?

tender locust
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Yep basically using a special right after you turn around

crystal sandal
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Yeah that

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Learning it will greatly help you

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There are YouTube videos that explains how to do it

tender locust
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Whoops

crystal sandal
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Rip

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Ill do 2 more

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Don’t be too greedy

tender locust
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Btw did you use quickplay as a form of practice because I heard some people did

crystal sandal
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Cuz you’ll sd if you do

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I used discord servers rather than quickplay but quickplay isnt bad honestly

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As long as you play real people

tender locust
crystal sandal
tender locust
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Gg

crystal sandal
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Ggs

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So yeah try to go over the points me and underdog gave you, one by one so you don’t get overwhelmed

tender locust
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And one more thing how do people even enjoy this

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Like there are so many techniques that Idk where to even begin!

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I want to get better I do! but holy shit I feel like I just got worse because of all the fundamentals im lacking and its just getting into my fucking head

lean chasm
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Or ditto known goofy characters like DK, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf

lean chasm
lean chasm
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Then move onto the next one

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Go into Training mode where there's no real opponent

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And practice moves

tender locust
tender locust
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And its DRIVInG ME InSAnE