#Non Bulky High Precision sensor to readout the Water Flow Sensor

165 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sly dagger
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I created a PCB to track my water usage in home assistant. It is mounted to my water flow meter and uses a strobing led and 3 light sensors to track the position of the rotating needle on the meter that indicates the flow of water. The PCB can be powered by battery or USB and connects to wifi for home assistant Energy integration.
I would love to hear what people think about the concept and also if you would be interested to install such a device to track your water usage in home assistant. I am considering selling the PCB at a low price point if there is interest. Estimation is around 9-12 Euro

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willow temple
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Awesome! I like the simplicity! It looks like there is some RFID coil sensor under the red dial? No magnet on it? I used a hall effect sensor between the top counter mechanism and the lower metal part of my water meter but it requires breaking the seal usually to get the hall effect close enough.. The meters I used I purchased on ebay.. not owned by utilities.

sly dagger
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Tried it with a hall too, but that didn't work. This works amazingly good 0.1L even

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I cannot open the water flow meter, so I can only add my custom PCB on it.

green cargo
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Have you tried different wavelength LEDs including IR? How do you calibrate it? Is battery power feasible for remote meters?

sly dagger
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I have chosen the green led so red becomes black looking. Batterij powered is an option for the second version. It does automarical calibration. After 1L of water it actually works better

willow temple
sly dagger
willow temple
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Hmm yeah like an inductive trigger device... So you could potentially use your own resonant coil to detect it too.. not that your way with the LEDs isn't perfectly fine too. Maybe the inductive way can even be read through the cover or something..

sly dagger
# willow temple Hmm yeah like an inductive trigger device... So you could potentially use your o...

I don't use RF magnetic technology, only an LED and 3 light sensors. This allows me to achieve 0.1L accuracy using phase shifting in the calculation. My sensor is cheaper and more accurate than inductive sensors, I'm not sure why others haven't adopted this approach. The inductive sensor cannot read through a cover and need to be just as close. I think they have chosen RF antenna because its cheaper to make than adding a piece of metal, and lowers the weight for higher precision in those water sensors.

willow temple
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Yes that makes sense now that the weight could be lower this way. I like your approach too I was just curious about the water meter designers choices.

plain skiff
sly dagger
muted pier
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I see you have a water meter from Vitens so i think you are in the Netherlands, if you want to sell the print i would be interested.

sly dagger
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Non Bulky High Precision sensor to readout the Water Flow Sensor

dark oriole
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Good innovation here instead of the normal magnetic sensors. So you have 3 photo sensors, and one goes dark when the needle passes over it?

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and what if the LED strobes at the wrong time? Wouldn't it be better leave the LED on constant? (apart from power consumption)

sly dagger
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I enable the LED and wait for x time to warmup the LED and than take a measurment

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using auto-corrolation you can than priciesly know where you are and more robust agaist noise. If one LED has a lot of reflection from the needle this will be ignored by the other two thus stable tracking of position

dark oriole
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I kind of understand. Can you please make yaml available - I'd like to see how you coded it.

sly dagger
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I am just in the progress to do convert the code to ULP assembly. I wrote everything with a friend mostly in C. I am waiting on a order with the new ESP chip and finishing the second Proto PCB. I am going to test the new LED if that gives enough light.

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follow this thread for updates!

oblique shuttle
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I would buy one for 9-12 Eur

sly dagger
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Without shipping cost that will be the price, yes

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saw for a person in sound afrika it cost amost 40 euro

vivid crystal
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We need a compatibility spec, what kind of meters are supported.

sly dagger
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Currently one meter only, i am trying to find some meters to be able to test it out, but slow process

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Currently i am trying to make the code more stable:

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I am also creating some datasets to test different methods with, after that i am going to support multiple meters and test them

sly dagger
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This is prototype that works very nicely now the v200 honeywell

sly dagger
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In this figure, there is a rotating red circle disk Light output shown, accompanied by a differential signal displayed below it. The orange is the raw signal with the filtered signalrepresented by the yellow line.

sly dagger
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Small update:

Working now on the ESP32-S3 ULP code. I am not sure yet how to connect this with ESPHome, but lets see

sly dagger
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Update 24-05-2023:

We are working on Rust implementation. This brings more code safety to the table and efficiency

subtle willow
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How does it detect initial value?

sly dagger
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Basically it took quite some work to make a minima crossing work. The minima crossing is needed for the algorithm to know where it is, and as soon it has a good starting point it immidiate starts measuring.

pulsar plover
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I'm also interested. I tried a hall sensor but that gives no signal om my meter. I am also in the Netherlands. Where can I find more about your project? I use Node-Red for home automation BTW. And I have a different watermeter.

sly dagger
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Plan is having the first version before summer. This will have support for 2 water meter versions with only USB powered. After that I will work on a battery version.

Currently improving the way it handle light from surrounding and other potenional effects on the measurments.

sly dagger
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New update written in the post. Finilize the algorithm that can robostly track water

sly dagger
uneven trail
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What tests have you done with battery power ? does it have a constant consumption value ?

sly dagger
eager hazel
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Discord has added automatic blocking of swearing. 🙂 Did it tell you that it did that?

sly dagger
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Had some issues responding on that messages. But only I named the full chipname and that was swearing too :/

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and I would swear about the S3 adc it really ::::::::: compared with any other adc

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using a digital pin makes more sense than you just know its not zero XD

eager hazel
eager hazel
sly dagger
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Ahhh I see now the message, lel I didn't notice :p

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But it did not tell me what was wrong just your message is not accepted

eager hazel
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What's wrong with the S3 adc?

sly dagger
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the noise is extreemly bad will show you image

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this is the moment where the adc just went up and down without water flowing

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very high noise level

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signal goes up and down with 100mV

eager hazel
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I can't tell what the time scale is, but could you use a filter?

sly dagger
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timescale each halve a second you will see one sinus period

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what means one liter of water

sly dagger
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First ORDER IS OUT, soon I will make it avalible for others to be orderd

left lion
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Great!

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Its an interesting project

sly dagger
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Watch muino.nl (draft website) for a bit more information about buying it

left lion
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Would this sensor work with a dial that has a metal part instead of red?

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Your pcb design is for a different meter so it would need to be changed, but i am wondering if the sensing method would work..

sly dagger
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You probably need to make a small 3d printed bracket for it

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Dont know your cat skills

left lion
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I have a 3d printer and can make something with freecad. Maybe i will order a board.

sly dagger
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New serie arrives next week, however I am going for work to the otherside of the world start of august I can start delivering

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still fighting to get it in esphome, my own written code with mqtt works but not yet in homeassistant with esphome

exotic ice
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any updates on a battery powered version? (maybe limit battery power by publising data over BLE using BTHome?)

shadow arrow
sly dagger
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So basically just detecting 1 liter (0,5~0.3) would be possible if light conditions stay the same, what essentially not happening. Than you need 2 for comparision. I added the 3th one to just auto-corrolation thechnique (someting being used in 3-fase electronics), now essentially you can go very accurate in mililiters.

sly dagger
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Its basically now finished, second focus is the external component thingy but do this after my holidays

sly dagger
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First bash arrived, going to work on some esp32 fixes with esphome

sly dagger
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First batch arrived and successfull tested!

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narrow willow
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would you have space to thicken up the holding tabs ? You could use a slot instead of a hole so allow for the small differences in the hole positions between different meters.

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exotic ice
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@sly dagger looking verry nice! But any progress on a battery powered version?
maybe use BTHome protocol to periodically send the measurement? That way I suppose it will be battery efficient

sly dagger
sly dagger
sly dagger
sly dagger
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smart trick yes

sly dagger
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its for sale on tindie..

sly dagger
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Are there hardware designers, that can help me creating an 3d design for a gas-sensor?

real wraith
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@sly dagger very nice project! Any chance, that you will share the Schematics / Gerber files? For my water meter I would need other mounting options

fallen kraken
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@sly dagger I am away but when home I will check my water meter in Australia to see if it might be compatible with your project… I just looked at your source code link on tindie - you are using custom component - any plans to convert to a real esphome component

sly dagger
sly dagger
urban wagon
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@rain marsh

rain marsh
real wraith
sly dagger
real wraith
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hmm if it does not fit perfectly, I won't use it. You did not answer to the schematics / layout questions. So I guess it will be closed source hardware, right?

sly dagger
real wraith
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glad to hear this - if you need any PCB review, I can offer you some assistance (electrical engineer / FPGA / microelectronics here) 😉

(but I never did anything with 3D stuff...)

sly dagger
sly dagger
sly dagger
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yes

sly dagger
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For the people that are still interesting in knowning the bug I had to solve, if you have an esp32-c3 and you enable the logger it will not boot normally in esphome

cunning reef
# sly dagger

This looks to be using Seeed's XIAO? I recently learned that Seeed got a model assistant and they offer a solution for visually recognizing water meter degrees, what do you think?

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steel elbow
arctic torrent
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I have one like this so there are no premade holes. Would it work? and can I mount it without using self tapers as I do not want to risk any discussions with utility company

arctic torrent
sly dagger
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I think using a camera is a solution for some sensors. However, its a costly solution that needs quite some bulky construction. where you need to put the camera on top and make sure the readout keeps correct. Also you need to get the light conditions good. My goals was just to keep track of my daily usaged and see when I use more and when less. Also I want to know when there is a leakage. This all can be done with the camera, however I like the complexity of a camera less. I though for some camera solution you need an external service to convert the tekst to numbers, so I dislike htat approach alot. I like a simple device that does the job and is cheaper in the end!

sly dagger
# arctic torrent

The utility company does not care actually as long as you can read the black part of the numbers. I actually think your sensor could work! Never tested that exact model!

cunning reef
sly dagger
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But the enclosure can get costly to build around it. To maken it dark for the sensor. If you want to order the 3d peinted version or print on you own depends ofcourse, for me ordrering and the shipment was quite expensive. There is also quite some power usaged and if you choise for an external service to convert pictures to text can be that you need to pay for thst

cunning reef
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What if it's just as a master, and use your program?

cerulean ridge
plain skiff
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That looks really nice 🙂 Congratulations.

sly dagger
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Thank you 💡

sly dagger
sly dagger
sly dagger
sly dagger
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the new case 3d printed

sly dagger
sly dagger
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New 3D design

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terse crown
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Nice one! Looking good @sly dagger !
ben ook voor de V2 met een (platte inductie sensor) bezig.
Vind het erg interessant hoe je deze ontwikkeld hebt en heb de posts graag doorgelezen 😉 !

Zag dat je voor de losse sensor ringen problemen had met tape vinden?
Kan eventueel kijken of ik een batch voor je kan snijden?

Groetjes!

untold swan
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Bought one! Easy to install and just works!

sly dagger
terse crown
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Makes sense, thanks for the info!

sly dagger
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If you are interesting in a matter or thread version please tell me

tropic night
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Hi @sly dagger this is awesome piece of hw. We you thinking about the version used in shaft uner the ground? There are a lot of water meter installations in slovak houses under the ground.

sly dagger
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Can you explain me more about it

tropic night
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Water meters are in outside of the house in the garden in shafts made for it. It is due to water company can access it freely and do manual check of meter and second reason is due to not freeze during the winter. Conditions at the bottom of that shaft are harsh for electronic devices so I was thinking to make reading sensor sealed and esp32 with baterry to put above the ground on a pole. Will your reading sensor (only sensor not esp32) work connected to esp32 over 2m long cable? Could you imagine to make sealed sensor?

sly dagger
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Yes can be done tbo

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Sounds like reasonable solution

tropic night
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Yeah, this is real useful use case for your meter if it handles so hash environment. I would like to test and help if you want to.

sly dagger
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Yeah lets ping eachother on private to discuss further

deep lintel
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Does this work with this meter?

deep lintel
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@sly dagger ?

wooden whale
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It looks like the placement of the gauge and its shape are different for yours. I imagine the board and code could be adapted to work for yours, but I don't think it would work unchanged.

sly dagger
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I am each time soo suprised to see soo many different watermeter versions. This needs maybe some change in code and calibration, could work but wouldnt have my hopes up too much

dire gull
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Hi, when the schematic will be open source? It's a good way to the community collaborate.

narrow willow
sly dagger
sly dagger
dire gull
sly dagger
dire gull
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I didn't know. I will check it

lost pond
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Hi, Does this work with this meter? This model is Sensu Residia.

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sly dagger
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I don't think so, it need some facy algorithms or special lenses

lost pond
slim steppe
sly dagger
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Could work yes

exotic ice
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@sly dagger now ESPhome has matter over thread/zigbee support, would that be an option for a battery powered version?
Or BLE with an NRF52 CPU?

eager hazel
exotic ice
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Would that also have a lower battery consumption? For instance on the NRF52?

eager hazel
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yes

sly dagger
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I tried thread and still quite unstable in my opinion. So no plans yet, made low power version but that is sold out and require some programming of a user

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I would never use a chip like nrf52 too unstable