she has her other normals but if both players are equal she should lose most of the close range interactions. Altho I tihnk in 2024 we might also have to assume that the characters are relatively equal too LOL.
#pvp
mental rose
twin pawn
aisha has so many tools to not even care about the 4s cd tp
mental rose
tp shouldnt havbe light trait
because it makes the ramping mp cost irrelevant
and now you have to put a 4s cd on it to feel like she has some restriction
stable nymph
o wat she can still tp without cd, just 4 extra cost? then wat is the argument even
twin pawn
even without light itd still be affected by mpr
mental rose
o wat she can still tp without cd, just 4 extra cost? then wat is the argument e...
no she cant
twin pawn
no she cant tp without cd without using a combo
the only tp she can do is her kd tp to escape into another tp
mental rose
no she cant tp without cd without using a combo
the combo requires a target nearby to lock onto
twin pawn
its free super armor even if she doesnt hit anything
its one of her safest to actually approach someone
mental rose
that one is punishable against any good character, and I think that she should lose this interaction
fundamentalyl
in most scenarios
now PERSONALLY
i do not play 1 of those characterrs
stable nymph
tbh there's probably 2 much wrong with aisha to fix things by looking at any 1 thing in a vacuum
mental rose
so i do in fact get aped on by that tp extension
stable nymph
atm feels like she's been distild down into like
mental rose
LOL2
stable nymph
watever ring active + some funny spactives
twin pawn
https://youtu.be/1Zn5BvnQ4Kw?t=598&si=uf2mvO0lyEmCcukH me fighting a tp and sitting on 100-150 mp for funnies
mental rose
tbh there's probably 2 much wrong with aisha to fix things by looking at any 1 t...
yeah the more we expand out the more complicated it gets, but the scenario i described with teh wall and TP dynamic
that's how the character operates fundamentally
when you add
like
for example
oz angkor super armor normals
energy rings, dark rings, etc it gets complicated and messed up, but I think that she should be balanced around those fundamental characteristics. Like those fundamental characteristics should come first and take priority. So nerf the other items that elevate her up in2 ridiculousness
Aisha the mage should not have super armor normals that can compete with actual melee characters thats nuts and ridiculous
I hear dark ring is also a problem but that thing loses to reflect kick so like me personally....
but yeah
stable nymph
i think seeing stuf like mage archetypes expressed in gameplay is starting 2 get phased out as everythign is getting like
giga homogenized
twin pawn
i mean i dont think her having super armor is that big of an issue
i do agree her special actives need nerfs
sinful anvil
https://youtu.be/1Zn5BvnQ4Kw?t=598&si=uf2mvO0lyEmCcukH me fighting a tp and sitt...
i think agianst
against that fourth path laby
twin pawn
but until she actually gets those nerfs i dont think tp 4s cd is... that big of a deal
sinful anvil
she should have lost that first interaction
sinful anvil
like the one where she does >>ZX into the haunting spirit armor
twin pawn
idk what youd call that
sinful anvil
it hink fourht path laby can punish that
twin pawn
not with no mp but the laby had already gotten hitstunned and both used hs at the same time
so technically it was a neutral exchange
sinful anvil
ye but if laby jumps and uses the linger multi hit
twin pawn
or well the super armor frame for her (oz) hs hadnt ended so she ends up getting a neutral exchange
twin pawn
it only multi hits for like
the first 2 hits
after that it stops
unless u mean her other one
sinful anvil
after
twin pawn
or she risks getting hitstunned by hs
sinful anvil
she lands and they trade hs
twin pawn
hs was technically her best option imo
sinful anvil
hold up and do it again LOL
fiery lionBOT
noobsux has been warned
twin pawn
bc if she jumped
twin pawn
she wouldve lost the trade anyway
sinful anvil
i think she shud have jumped and done it
twin pawn
but she also didnt read the tp
bc the aisha just tps
but if the aisha doesnt tp and assume ur going for graffiti again
she just goes under plat
twin pawn
assume u clip her head
twin pawn
andromeda
twin pawn
bam bam
sinful anvil
yeah bang bang lOL
she presses bangbang
i think instead of bangbang she shud have held up and spammed the normals again
bc all aisha has is armor, tp, or chain fireball
twin pawn
mmm
sinful anvil
but maybe that just
twin pawn
i still think thats not the best for her in the case the aisha ends up tping anyway
or down press
sinful anvil
my green munki b rian lOL
twin pawn
bc thebgraffiti wouldnt hit her anyway
and now laby wastes mp on a combo that doesnt land
sinful anvil
it would hit her even if only in armor
ebcause
the aisha goes fo the combo u wer talkign aout
super armor tracking TP
dash z x
it h ink dash zx is punishable by good characters
and aishas love
twin pawn
yeah but who knows who's presses wouldve come out first
twin pawn
bc aisha can do the dash zx fast
and if she already does the tp she tracks you upwards
sinful anvil
dash zx only the dash z
twin pawn
or shes already in super armor
sinful anvil
hits laby, and hits her during hs armor
the follow up
attack
wont hit if she holds up
aishas coming down as shes going up
twin pawn
yeah but she does it and she still gets out anyway bc of tp
sinful anvil
maybe
twin pawn
and at worst burns her escape
sinful anvil
but if you spam the multi hit graffitis
u have a good chance of beating that normal imo
and fgetting aishas escape is a W
twin pawn
i think it also depends on distance
i dont think the laby was confident she had time or distance to make it work
sinful anvil
i think seeing stuf like mage archetypes expressed in gameplay is starting 2 get...
like u sed this but i think that the close range dynamic
stille xists between aisha and other chars that are on her same tier
LOL
sinful anvil
i dont think the laby was confident she had time or distance to make it work
yeah me neither
but thats why
its worth making it a part of ur autopilot
twin pawn
but also that aisha's decent anyway her tp wouldve gotten her out if she does it bc super armor
sinful anvil
thats teh only way she does it is if shes usign to autopiloting all over armor like that
twin pawn
shes already entering the frame when the laby is in the air anyway and she has to do the comvo for the graffiti
i dont think holding up wouldve saved her w the graffiti bc of how the combo wouldve landed for both
at best irs still just a neutral exchange
sinful anvil
i think if she holds up after bangbang instead of hs, ESPEICALLY , holding up + forward, she bodies
that >>z x normal
because of how the tracking + hitbox
works
it ptus in her in ideal position too, because she's above and behind teh aisha during >>ZX
aisha is still fundamentally aisha, her movement sucks outside of TP and she cant synergy spec into a double jump like elboy raven elesis. To cope with this they've given her a bunch of strong armored normals, even though TP was already a strong and interactive option in the 1st place.
twin pawn
eye still think the cd is fine
id rather they destroy her mp gain on x commands but
evb talking ab aisha the real enemy is laby
mental rose
ya and taking away her cd on tp makes her worse @ fighting the reel enemy...
twin pawn
she'll live
mental rose
and krs still haven o qualms abotu uploading 1v1 mixtapes vs scrubs
twin pawn
she deserves to suffer for a little
after that garbage that was AeS charging + medi + lightning shower best stun in the game
she can have it back in 10 years when shes earned it
mental rose
you said she at best uses it 2x
the 2x
is the big one
LOL
that was the most common
also i wonder how many LA normals can b reflected ...
i like how most of the previous third jobs they're armored monkey normals
tend 2 b vulnerable to reflect
that oz dj. Z dive extension
the KE super armor charge attack
and some others im blanking on
but 4th paths???
also i like how aisha is like the only character that still has their og movement intact ๐
rena used 2 have this too ๐ ๐
it's funny becuase that's always what made aisha's levi dash so scary
LOL
and its still scary
u c her gliding thru the air like that andu kno that she can v-step insta fall out of it and b on the ground skilling in ur face whenever she wants 2
dusk dock
skilled movement
mental rose
and if u try to delay and hit her out of levi, she'll fast fall out of it
when i c that shhyz my brain instntly thinkin cover her landing with back kick
but we dont have nice things anymore ๐ญ
could also cover it with nf hitbox ^^ZZ the launching version...
but she dont have to fast fall she can just TP left/right ๐
empty ore
Mtm gets 15mp per ^Z
Aes gets 20 per >>^x.
Oz is using basic fireballs so she gets 10
I forget about LA
kindred frost
if I stream will 2s come alive
abstract yacht
"not being able to deal with tp is skill issue"
going back to 0.5s CD tp that was s1 with like 10 mp cost I dont think its really a player issue for not catching someone who can basically travel the entire map in less than 2s
her spd sucks and she is so reliant to tp to move
true
but lets be real tp before it started getting dunked was not anything good for the game either.
oblique sundial
man 1s is great
queue
get cin**tic
autolose because he can do one million and face tank me to 400 mp
like damn thats a lot of fun thanks kog im glad this game is balanced this way
abstract yacht
I'd rather they buff Aisha's base mobility and/or movespd to work better on her own
than to go back to the boredom that her tp was.
marsh plume
autolose because he can do one million and face tank me to 400 mp
smoke him
oblique sundial
yeah i literally cant
marsh plume
forget i ever talked to you
oblique sundial
need to spend a grand on a +12 sov for that sorry
marsh plume
hollow hound
Imagine limiting skill using in pvp. O. O
Like, you can only use braveries x times, strengths x times, etc.
At least in 1vs1.
mystic elbow
That would be hard to implement with aras who have to cancel everything
hollow hound
True.
That would be painful for nuke classes.
But I guess they could decrease the range of some homing skills.
heavy spear
i'm reminded of a thing that was in dragon nest (the mmo, not the elsword dungeon)
was called the "blacklist"
most of the community agreed not to use certain skills in 1v1s because they encouraged stalling or were difficult/impossible to interact with
not everyone followed it though, and people often disagreed on what skills should be blacklisted
abstract yacht
But I guess they could decrease the range of some homing skills.
they literally did this at the time of Elysion's era a bit after transcendence
most homings with infinite range were given a limit in PvE and an even smaller range in PvP
but then modern chars proceed to have infinite range tracking skills
...?
sinful anvil
"not being able to deal with tp is skill issue"
going back to 0.5s CD tp that wa...
it absolutely was a player issue
im sorry
but it really truly was a player issue people did not know how to space
mental rose
in 2024 things are alort more ridiculous with
abstract yacht
things were much slower back then but tp was instant, tp was basically playing god at those times.
mental rose
how much armor aisha has
abstract yacht
though even now
mental rose
no it wasn't playing god at all
do you see
in the video
wynter linked
how fast
aisha is falling
?
that's her v-step, she wasnt hte only character who had that
abstract yacht
I'm speaking of 2010-2012
mental rose
yes
aisha still has her og movement
but if oyu are tlaking 2010-2012, spacing Aisha TP absolutely was a skill issue
i watched myself learn how to do it in real time, it was like an intermediate skill wall
once it clicks
it clicks
abstract yacht
things were much slower paced in those times, EM could legit just run away from you from first second
not to mention meditate wasn't even gutted in those times but that's another can of worm, though is relevant because it allowed her to be on the runaway permanently without needing to stay still for recharging mp
however
mental rose
things were much slower paced in those times, EM could legit just run away from ...
the pace of the game
has nothing to do with it
and by slow pace
you mean
frame data on ab lities
and lack of acel
i assume
bc thats the main difference
but normals in neutral were a LOT more relevant back then
you had to play around them
she could not bypass neutral at 50mp with chain fireball
like she can now
she could not contest melee range
like she can now
if aishaw as up against the wall, as i explained to wynter,
she was actually trapped against the wall and had to use TP to get off of it
the fixed distance TP.
^ This situation 100% applied in the time period you're talking about
in 2024 its different because she can pop obten and charge 60mp over 6 sec
if you could not space out aisha TP's in neutral, it was a massive AND FIXABLE skill issue
players like elulu (goes by vaffle now on YT) were always puppy kicking in arena by kiting with TP on VP vs scrubs. YrsofEXP and tons of footage of him just zoning people out with fireballs and they could not get in on him bc they would get rattled and over commit to their approach, which just gave her easy TP's
YrsofEXP literally hated my guts (never spoke to him in my life btw). He'd put up 1v1 rooms in spar where he would be streaming/recording games for video footage
whenever me or LiNing would join he would kick us and then whisper our GM saying we were 'harassing' him
its cuz we had the mattchup down iiwii...
abstract yacht
first of all her mp regen is nerfed as so recently
second of all her mp regen, or at least EM's was worse to deal with back then.
like, she legit could get like 120 mp right off the match, meditate was not balanced in PvP whatsoever.
while you were still on 0.
that already allowed her to stick at the top of el tree map whatever is the one with the 5 levels of platform
and since commands were a lot slower paced and they were also less dumb like more modern classes, you could be easily dodged for a mere 5 MP cost of tp
and while your commands were slow her tp was instant.
that's where I talk about pacing. you're easily dodgable because commands were slower but tp was already instant from its very existence
I'd rather argue tp would be less of a problem nowadays if it was unnerfed, cuz you have other classes who pretty much can contest it with gap closers super armors and also contest her out on regeneration of a same level or worse in absurdity
to point one CA
but it still very much would very obnoxious to chase an Aisha, not invincible but very obnoxious, like even now Aisha is already obnoxious what makes you think unnerfing her tp would do to her? make her more fair? no
as I said before I rather they overhaul her movement, so as she can actually play on her own than to depend on tp
than unnerfing tp
sinful anvil
first of all her mp regen is nerfed as so recently
second of all her mp regen, o...
you're just wrong LOL
her mp was better to deal with back then because the options she could use that mp on were not as powerful as they are now. 120mp sounds like apocalyptic in modern terms, but back then 120 mp was very easy to come by. You could get it from a few grazes, or from takking 5 or 6 hits. Also, you keep saying that TP is "instant". It's not. TP has a startup and recovery animation that are both affected by attack speed.
abstract yacht
VP was fine to play against in those times, I'm not even gonna argue that, she was more melee designed and was kinda terrible, tp wasn't doing favors just because her playstyle was melee back then so she had to face you whether she wanted or not, running away wasn't her solution but EM was just, no.
sinful anvil
or at least they were affected by attack speed back then
sinful anvil
VP was fine to play against in those times, I'm not even gonna argue that, she w...
well VP was the more powerful aisha who could make scarier use out of TP. She was legit the strongest Aisha
tp was hre standard movement she could use it to relocate herself in an instant in the middle of fights or swap sides it was a very powerful option on her. People associate EM's with kiting and running, but kiting and running is not what made Aisha a menace. Kiting/running Aishas were noob stompers full stop.
mental rose
or at least they *were* affected by attack speed back then
i had s1 low kick
and ran poison
when i lowkicked an aisha player
it absolutely impacted teleport speed
abstract yacht
her mp was better to deal with back then because the options she could use that ...
mp gain was a lot less obtainable back then than now what
nowadays you have cla- aisha herself can get to 250MP in like 8 X>X>X>X, I see their MP bar going to half in 3s even after the supposed nerfs
the general MP gain wasn't as absurd off commands outside outliers like chung's ZZZX in those days, mana was actually hard earned at those times, MP gain wasn't even a stat beyond the necklace and passives giving MP gain weren't as many
and for her to just get 1/3 of an MP bar out of a single button was ridiculous
tp is practically instant, it has a wind up, but you're really not going to compare such wind up with how slow commands were back then, like by relativity it's practically instant.
you know how much it took for a chung's >>^X to come out ? aisha could tp 2 times and a half before he could make any action thereafter even with good aspd
I don't even want to imagine how Elswords had to deal with her given Elsword didn't actually have many gap closers nor good mobility so he was much easier to read and tp away
sinful anvil
mp gain was a lot less obtainable back then than now what
nowadays you have cla-...
no
it was not
mana was not hard earned
compared to now
what
are you saying
we had unnerfed guild skil
skill*
actives refunded significant amounts of mp
sinful anvil
mp gain was a lot less obtainable back then than now what
nowadays you have cla-...
and mp gain still isn't a real stat it doesnt do much of anything beyond 30%. You gained more mp on hit b ack then than you do now, and many breaking was also a lot less costly back then
mp was no where near as valuable as it is today full stop
you could not win the game off of 100mp
you did not have m pr bringing down the cost of skills
meditation was strong but her options to spend on were no where near as powerful as what they are. When we had the CRAZY meditation patch in s2 where she would match start 45mp per tick, her options to spend it on were meteor shower, lightning shower and mana breaking,
oh and i g chain lightning
but none of those were game ending they did not do a ton of damage and you were still very much in the fight
season 1 meditate, it wasnt as much mp and she'd spend it on.. magic missile
players lose to her by either eating every fireball in neutral while trying to chase her down
or by like
legit
losing to time bc she ran the clock]
LOL
abstract yacht
yeah, and that was enough.
she wouldn't put you a fight.
even if you were good at dodging magic missile you still very much spent time dodging it while also trying to get to her, which gave her more time to just charge mana
and repeat
by the time magic missile was done chasing you she already had near enough mp to do it again, and the cd of meditate would be halfway down
throw another magic missile and u got meditate again to do it again
yes, that's actually the experience I had, and I genuinely don't feel it being a skill issue when she could start doing that by the first 5s of the match while you effectively have 0 options to track her down cuz you can't use skills of your own and commands were [###] in those times
not to talk about how there was also a lot more map options back then so your banned maps meant little
when there is like 5 good maps out there where she could hide while having you in sight.
does anyone remember tyrant's arena? yeah
while this has gone on a tangent, to throw it back into the initial argue of this discussion; I do trust tp being instant (or at least nearly) with no drawbacks is what allowed her to have that gameplay, cuz she always had an escape plan that costed very little to be as [A]
to play hide and seek
I don't want that back again
she has more tools these days
and if u give her that tool back what you think is gonna happen
fighting aisha will become even more of a boredom
than it already is
I absolutely don't agree with "there's no reason for her to have those drawbacks"
sinful anvil
yeah, and that was enough.
she wouldn't put you a fight.
even if you were good a...
you chase her through magic missile and dontlet her charge a second one
chase heri between the missile
sinful anvil
yeah, and that was enough.
she wouldn't put you a fight.
even if you were good a...
she couldnt magic missile
within 5s of the match
thats just
blatantly untrue
season 1 EM 100% had to build up the mana first and that did take some time
most of season 1 EM's damage came from hitting you with fireballs in neutral
unironically
if she got to magic missile mp yeah it was a situation, not an unwinnable one but it def took some finesse
but if you're playing the matchup properly you would mostly die to fireballs
sinful anvil
while this has gone on a tangent, to throw it back into the initial argue of thi...
no LOL
that's why the charge nerfs came a week after
TP was never the issue
players have no clue what they're talking about
where do you think she ends up
if she presses TP from this position?
?
that's where she ends up
right next to yours truly with NF up
that is DANGEROUS
idk what about this is so difficult
to understand LOL
abstract yacht
she wouldn't put you a fight
no single EM actually tried to hurt you they all always run the clock out, even in high ranks like it was just stupid
I don't think we'll agree about the past time for as much as we argue and I also have to sleep cuz by now I only have 5 hrs before I wake up for work
so I just throw you the question again for the 4th time, in the regards of the present time
you give her back her unnerfed tp NOW, you think that's the right decision?
like now it's less about how stupid broken it'd be cuz as I said classes these days have way more options to counteract her compared to then especially modern classes aka 4th paths and probably lithia ig
more so, why would you make her more tedious to deal with
I repeat, I rather they overhaul her movement so she can actually move independently from tp, so she can actually be competent on her own, but not annoying
sinful anvil
>she wouldn't put you a fight
no single EM actually tried to hurt you they all ...
you just sound like you were nto
very good
in s1
and a lot of hte poieple talking about it werent bro not even their fualt
they were like
12 years old
but its just insane to me some of the takes
no good player got clocked by season 1 aisha on a regular basis
if you check elulu's old aisha videos
where he used to kitee 24/7 and play lame
to rage bait
there were no good players in those except
ok i think one time he got rearou to curse him out credit where credit is due....
actually idt that was aisha i think that may have been on his eve
abstract yacht
if she presses TP from this position?
on the consideration that rena is on the air and the amount of skills that could be used mid air back then weren't a lot , like legit every char only had one mid-air castable skill
tp to the platform above then to the right cuz tp had no cd
like no aisha in their right mind would tp towards rena
the only situation I can see for rena to zone the top platform is windwall, cuz windwall was stupid back then
but I don't assume that's a GA
sinful anvil
on the consideration that rena is on the air and the amount of skills that could...
she couldnt reach
above
to the right
from that position
she'd have to come closer to me
I could be stomping
to the ground
abstract yacht
Aisha can tp to the platform above hers, tp has a bit of height after teleporting
abstract yacht
it's not a straight line of tp
sinful anvil
Aisha can tp to the platform above hers, tp has a bit of height after teleportin...
yes but she would have to get closer
to me
abstract yacht
not really
sinful anvil
https://puu.sh/KidL5/faddf37719.png
she can't do it from here
yews
yes really
she litro presses it
sinful anvil
https://puu.sh/KidLt/7e58c17d59.png
this is where she ends up
this is the distance my dude
im in the air as rena WS with nature force hitboxes active, if you think that's safe to be around then idk what to tell you. From that position, if I press ^Z im stomping instantly
abstract yacht
yknow she can just jump straight up and tp to the left, and end up in the platform right above hers, right? she doesn't need to come close to you
sinful anvil
and from stomp i can cancel into anything
she tps up there i sh oot her
i have that covered
i shoot her out of the tp and catch
im covering both options from that positioj
and throughout this match
she gets caught by arrow during TP recovery animation
a lot
abstract yacht
assuming the arrow comes in time, like there's a few things to consider and one is that she can tp right after to the right ot end up hgher
and yknow, shenanigans with tp, she can still tp and get hit after
get the hitstun but the tp is still done
sinful anvil
she cant tp righ t aftter
abstract yacht
so now you have to double jump to chase her,.
sinful anvil
its not "yknow shenannigans"
abstract yacht
by the same amount the arrow has to travel towards her is about as much of a time she has to recover
sinful anvil
yes adn imt ellign u i have enough time
to hit her
out of tp
with the arrow
from that spot
abstract yacht
arrows don't really have a good hitstun
you hit her, sure, but she tps away
and very likely she can react to another tp before u double jump into her
especially back then when hitstuns were affected
by aspd
sinful anvil
arrows don't really have a good hitstun
?????????????????
they have more than enoug
enough
to catch off of
if she gets hit
twin pawn
in 2024 its different because she can pop obten and charge 60mp over 6 sec
30 bc its 5/s
abstract yacht
and she can also initially bait a jump then fall considering aisha has a really good fast fall before tp'ing into said platform
sinful anvil
it inertupts her movement and gives me
the positioning advantage as well
even if i dont catch
which i probably would
sinful anvil
and she can also initially bait a jump then fall considering aisha has a really ...
so did rena
back trhe
then
so did melee characters
actually
abstract yacht
there's actually ways to make the "landing" animation to last less than it normally does.
sinful anvil
tbf
abstract yacht
for aisha's fast fall.
sinful anvil
everyone could do that if they knew how to v-step properly but aisha and rena were better at it
sinful anvil
for aisha's fast fall.
she had same as rena
it was a cosnequence of their unique movement mechancis they both had access to "true" v-step and that's what she's doing when you see her insta fall
oblique sundial
aisha movement is just cancer to play with
you can cancel the endlag by just turning around before you hit the ground
or by sliding if youre a light tapper
doesnt make it feel better though
sinful anvil
yeah it's difficult
relatively speaking
lot of ppl dont get seem 2 get that
LOL
having TP available plays a huge role in alleviating some of that
sinful anvil
yeah it's difficult
doubly so in the time period we're talking about, season 1, where she could not air dash after a neutral jump
this is y a lot of season 1 + 2 elboy/raven players would not touch aisha/rena with a 10ft pole
the transition from having the freedom to dash, swap dashing directions and perform air dash normals after jumping from any position, over to an Aisha/Rena that have restrictions placed on what u can do in the air depending on which jump u used to get there
was very jarring for a lot of ppl
thats y we didnt see a ton of real cross-over until season 3 reworks
sinful anvil
https://puu.sh/KidL5/faddf37719.png
like you see both me and the Aisha are neutral jumping in this picture
so neither of us can air dash rn. Our only movement options out of this position are teleport/levitate for Aisha, and double jump/stomp for rena
oblique sundial
Yeah like
Aisha movement was actually tragic back then
If she didn't have 50 mp at round start I honestly dont think she would have been viable at all
Like most characters have the same disadvantages state yeah but aisha
Aisha was special
Tele iframes on wakeup were bad so everyone could just react and oki her for free
fiery lionBOT
arnoldp has been warned
oblique sundial
Bro I can say it IN GAME
sinful anvil
Tele iframes on wakeup were bad so everyone could just react and oki her for fre...
tele iframes in general were weak against anything trying ot meaty them
espec during recovery, but startup too
sinful anvil
If she didn't have 50 mp at round start I honestly dont think she would have bee...
and ya she def needed a baseline 50mp or so
oblique sundial
And on top of that her combos were lag sensitive
Only launch resets were like
Zz^z
Or mp drain if you were vp ig
Idk aisha back then was kind of just a trash can
hollow hound
no bravery skills in 1s sounds good to me
Yeah, right... Code Yellow...
Strength...
dusk dock
๐
empty ore
mystic elbow
sinful anvil
idk how i keep finding myself getting caught up w/ basic 2012 scrub takes in 2024โฆ rip elsord comp scene, conspire cackling from his grave as we r bak 2 glazing kr. . .
flipping his hair n evrything ๐
hollow hound
hollow hound
Who is "yall"?
mystic elbow
u, sage and other ppl who use in in pvp
mystic elbow
icic
empty ore
idk how i keep finding myself getting caught up w/ basic 2012 scrub takes in 202...
Was conspire gay too
warm hornet
the "fun" way to win. XD
hollow hound
the "fun" way to win. XD
empty ore
Just imagine this with Ascending Dragon and Black mass
sinful anvil
Was conspire gay too
yes
empty ore
Every time...
celest ore
idk how i keep finding myself getting caught up w/ basic 2012 scrub takes in 202...
tbf actual comp elsword is doa as a concept
twin pawn
tbf actual comp elsword is doa as a concept
punches you
celest ore
its attached to a f2p krmmo with that p2p netcode coded by the monkey with a typewriter
celest ore
punches you
sinful anvil
@graceful nexus
sinful anvil
its attached to a f2p krmmo with that p2p netcode coded by the monkey with a typ...
elsord
doesnt have netcode
and tbh
celest ore
doesnt have netcode
real
sinful anvil
i pref that over most other games 'netcode' highkey
id take this over delay-based netcodes 100x over
sinful anvil
dont mess w/ the way my character responds 2 my own inputs brh
idc if u havbe to desync the opp on my screen
or if i have 2 aim in2 the future or w/e
celest ore
i can feel that but i just think the way elsword works will neve-
i was gonna yap but laggy rv
all i have to say is laggy rv
sinful anvil
tbf actual comp elsword is doa as a concept
comp elsord was a treat imo
sinful anvil
we had sum rly good players who were #elsordappreciators 
twin pawn
i'm just 0% surprised it didn't last
die die die die die die die die die die die die die
celest ore
๐ญ
sinful anvil
removing skill cancels
twin pawn
sinful anvil
was comp's execution
LOL
along w/ everything else that followd obv, but that 1 singular change was so massive idk if it's even possible 2 overstate
๐
celest ore
i dont know the full implications of what that change brought especially since renewals dropped during a time i wasn't playing
so if you wanna do the lore dump ill absolutely read it
celest ore
i pref that over most other games 'netcode' highkey
to add to this though, elsword's very bare minimum simple approach of going about things is probably realistically expected for netplay of a game of this era to be completely fair
i just think it's more elsword as a pvp game has to live inside elsword as a krmmo pve game
twin pawn
i remember Rena renewals and unkillable Wind Sneaker
smile
or guide arrow lasting about 20s bc it wouldn't go away
celest ore
i would literally uninstall
kindred frost
Imagine limiting skill using in pvp. O. O
definately would make things interesting
warm hornet
<@962946968848584724>, can you record your match with the EtW on queque rn?
she fought pretty cool, sadly i didn't record it.
dim bluff
who art thou
I'm no one, but you probably remember my buddy Sayu more
sinful anvil
I'm no one, but you probably remember my buddy Sayu more
OMG
SAYU THE HOMIE
i love sayu
wait
@dim bluff
are u in ZER0???
if so can u invite my GA LMAO
i left by mistake :(
dim bluff
I could but its a worthless guild only for the name
dim bluff
if so can u invite my GA LMAO
Ping me on saturday and i'll let you know if i'm free
sinful anvil
Ping me on saturday and i'll let you know if i'm free
sure
dim bluff
Yessir
empty ore
He stinky
abstract yacht
RV and the haha funni perma super armor
on a command
that doesnt even spend MP
and has multi hits
and is also a gap closer
with a controllable dive
yep
balanced.
cyan quail
Now imagine fighting one from Brasil
warm hornet
sinful anvil
Yessir
Y U DIDNT SAY SO omg i havent seen u in foreber
i was wondring y i kept thinking 'GA' when i think ZER0
only GA holding it down in 1s arena bak when she sukd, i used 2 think u were sayu's alt LOL
dim bluff
Y U DIDNT SAY SO omg i havent seen u in foreber
Cuz i'm a no one ofc
i just so happen to be the only GA in 1s
That's it
sinful anvil
i just so happen to be the only GA in 1s
there were other GA's in 1s they just weren't in high AP ss ๐
dim bluff
They hiding from me then. The only GA i found was safety when he was one for a bit
sinful anvil
thats where the safety ign originally came from
cuz his is 1st char was GA and and he was eating o nit...
well tbh sniping ranger...
but na i there was like
there was szion (swapped off to NW later), there was also that 1 guy who kept trying to make GA mixtapes but he was stuck in S rank so they were always kinda 
and tsubasa
naahhh there were GA's LOL
aptera
was not an ez char to play thats 4 sure
dim bluff
Tru
I barely rmb them
But for me it was safety or ppl who just tank me and one shot me
sinful anvil
ya
dim bluff
That still happens to me when i play once in a blue moon
sinful anvil
i am surpirsed u never made a WS u def were good w/ rena
i always thougth u were sayu's ga
sinful anvil
what getting tanked in2 1 shot?
dim bluff
Yeah
sinful anvil
yeah GA in 2024 has really good command damage tanking her hurts
aaltho
the character itself is rly different but eyah
dim bluff
i am surpirsed u never made a WS u def were good w/ rena
I did have a WS
celest ore
Tho tbh im using welfare gear
you got the vos?
dim bluff
i never bothered with it much since it was kinda boring
celest ore
or are you just talking about in general/the past
celest ore
๐ญ missed the free vos or just gave it to different char?
dim bluff
Nah i never bothered getting on for it even tho i saw it everytime
dim bluff
The other reason was i cba to do the 300 or so dungeon runs for it either
I get on once in a few months lol
celest ore
you mean stages? eh could skip them but yeah fair
dim bluff
Yeah
fiery lionBOT
www.siz.notfound has been warned
celest ore
not the bot ๐ญ
dim bluff
Lol
sinful anvil
The other reason was i cba to do the 300 or so dungeon runs for it either
nah they had the event medal thign sso u get double the counts for the wepn stages
i only had to get carried thru 18 runs
dim bluff
The funny part is pressing arc shot, hav it proc strong, vibe, wind, and double atk
They freak out every time
sinful anvil
i forgot about strong ๐
celest ore
i doubt its the last time they do that event so there will be a next time probably
celest ore
well the vos itself is whatever its more the fact it was +11'd
celest ore
๐ค me tickling people to death on my foj es
dusk dock
warm hornet
Close fight.
clever sigil
that's truly "plot armor on top of my plot armor" colorized.
sinful anvil
@graceful nexus
mental rose
ok els story quests kinda slap...
wait
ok i might b misremembering
but for any1 who evre playd kritika, isn't there a dungeon in kritika that is identical to lord's keep?
like im not just talkin thematically LOL
liek the layout
sinful anvil
<@63564417198981120> which 1
4th
empty ore
You will soon feel the power of privledge
sinful anvil
i did i got her to master
empty ore
fast
dusk dock
Lithia story clears
But Laby is just a better character to play imho
I would main her but I don't like her hitboxes
empty ore
In honor of Ladies Dont play Fighting Games getting an anime. I wanted to post this here.
warm hornet
fiery lionBOT
dekomlev has been warned
dusk dock
Based.
noble pelican
In honor of Ladies Dont play Fighting Games getting an anime. I wanted to post t...
When you finally beat that 1 person in q
inland swallow
oblique sundial
In honor of Ladies Dont play Fighting Games getting an anime. I wanted to post t...
๐ฆถ
sinful anvil
why is this
a thing?
like how hard is it
to not add stuff like this to ur game
oblique sundial
bro youve been playing this game for how long
you know how bad kog is at this kind of stuff
sinful anvil
there's levels to it
twin pawn
everyone talks ab how broken it is but u can literally walk out of it before it hits you
like you'd have to literally be standing there or get delayed for it to land its so funny
twin pawn
it can only lock on from so far (and iirc starts off on cd but ill need to double check)
sinful anvil
start of on cd but if cd is only 30s its nbd
twin pawn
depends on catch yeah
sinful anvil
it def looks dodgeable, but my thing is u have to dodge bc they're all inflicting stun
twin pawn
if youre not delaying it it wont do much to hit them bc they can also just counter delay it and smack you
but u can lit walk out of it
sinful anvil
like mid hit stun?
twin pawn
no you can just avoid the circle
it locks on to the spot you were at when jt was casted
just walk/run away
u can even move towards ur target
and just dodge that way
twin pawn
he doesnt dodge it properly lol
twin pawn
he does not get nearly enough height to dodge the explosions
sinful anvil
likew if ur moving i assume it will follow u for a bit
twin pawn
it follows about maximum 2-3 steps
sinful anvil
ya
twin pawn
but the bulk of the mussiles are just where u were at when it was locked on initially
sinful anvil
a fewunits depend on how fast ur moving, but i imagine like
twin pawn
unless u get delayed/cannot move u can just delay it or walk away before half of them hit
sinful anvil
it's better than hs for winning trades
twin pawn
and in most cases just dodge completely
sinful anvil
and if not better than hs
simply having the additional button on your bar
to press on top of hs
would b significant
twin pawn
u can mb the missiles so idkkk its more dangerous to have it land
if its not landing its at best just an expensive force you spent money on for no reason
considering you must clear challenge berthe to even get it
better off getting crimson bloom for the mp/hp regen
sinful anvil
you'd def get crimson rot first
twin pawn
like idk i feel ppl hype saturation too much
sinful anvil
but sat bombing doesnt seem like a bad option to have, I think it would be great for winning trades (and if they use their mp to mana break after losing the trade then that's a plus)
twin pawn
its not that good if its not landing since its a) expensive
b) you need to hitstun them first for it to be practical so they cant move
c) anticipate the mb and hope they mess up so u can actually land it
sinful anvil
and the multi hits are fast enough to punish s uper armor
twin pawn
like watching ppl use it its more trouble than its worth bc at best ur just... making them run from you ig
sinful anvil
b and c aren't necessarily true.
b.) they don't need to be hitstunned first if you're using it to punish super armor or win a trade. Outside of those two situations, it's primary purpose isn't necessarily to land the hits, it seems like a good zoning/pressure tool because it forces people to move in order 2 avoid the hits and puts hitboxes out on the screen for u to work with.
twin pawn
i mean what trade are uou pressing it for
sinful anvil
for c.) you don't need to anticipate an mb or pray they make a mistake. It's very low-commit on your end. If they mb, they mb. If they don't, they don't, but it's not something you need to bank on.
sinful anvil
i mean what trade are uou pressing it for
any trade where you might try to mash hs
as well as armored normals or actives like sonic blade
twin pawn
yeah but hs is available match start
sinful anvil
what ab out it?
twin pawn
you can mash a hs game start for a trade
twin pawn
you cant do that with sb and if the person isn't actually stupid theyll walk out of it and you've lost the pressure already no
now you're both essentially at neutral again
sinful anvil
you cant do that with sb and if the person isn't actually stupid theyll walk out...
the goal isn't to use sb at match start though
twin pawn
and depending on the character their neutral is either better than yours or equal/worse or they can super armor their way to you
twin pawn
like sb is just incredibly overhyped for an incredibly mediocre force
if their super armor has already happened at best youre hitting them and depending on SA frames theyre able to hit you if theyre moving towards you (i.e KE) or walk out of it anyway
sinful anvil
idk what people say about it in general, I haven't paid attention 2 it nor do I rly care. Just from my personal observations, and limitetd exp playing against it, I think it does bring value to the table in the form of zoning/pressure, super armor punishment and hit-trade advantage.
sinful anvil
like i can only imagine beating incredibly short SA frames
it's not about the duration of the SA frame as much as it is about when during the animation you decide to use it
the timing
it's like Swing on PR or eve core
twin pawn
i mean are u assuming this person has no other buttons available when you pop it
sinful anvil
extended, quick multi-hitting attacks like that are effective at punishing super armor normals/actives
twin pawn
bc you have to pop it, it marks, and then it lands about half a second/second later
sinful anvil
i mean are u assuming this person has no other buttons available when you pop it
there are a ton of different variations on the scenarios in which u might try to pop it on someone's armor, to the point that we'd b here all night if were to try and run through all of them. But to the specific situation ur pointing out, yeah it would work there too
if they had no other buttons avail
twin pawn
i mean i can only see it working if they have no buttons available or youre delaying them inside their armor state
otherwise they'll just outrun it
dim bluff
Panic button to reset to neutral
sinful anvil
i mean i can only see it working if they have no buttons available or youre dela...
yeah no you don't need to attach a delay to it, and they don't need to have all other buttons exhausted
twin pawn
in which case its again less dangerous than ppl think it is bc all youre doing is forcing back to neutral for 30s
dim bluff
That's pretty good imo
fiery lionBOT
.skwrl. has been warned
twin pawn
and if they do have buttons to press theyll just bumrush you through it and not even care
sinful anvil
tbh now that i think about it, I think that's how it was used against me
like a month ago
as a 'get off me' button. I had never seen it before tho so i didnt rly know what was going on
i just saw the reticle
and was like
crosshair = move
out of the way
LOL
sinful anvil
and if they *do* have buttons to press theyll just bumrush you through it and no...
you can't
twin pawn
heres my shiny 7b panic button
sinful anvil
unless you have a gapless super armor or delay chain available to u
twin pawn
you can depending on your super armor frames and delay, not if ur literally just sitting there taking it
sinful anvil
you can depending on your super armor frames and delay, not if ur literally just...
yeah, so it very much depends. There are a lot of 'fake' protection chains that people do as well, where it looks like they're fully SA'd through their skill rotation but in truth there r small gaps between their buttons
sb will catch these gaps
because of how fast the multi hit is
It's like using Swing on PR. People say Swing is 1 of the best buttons in the game. That's in large bc of its movement component, but also because of its disjointed, multi-hitting, lingering hitboxes that it puts out.
to really put this skill to work, you need to use it to punish armor that people normally think they won't get meatied out of
sinful anvil
to really put this skill to work, you need to use it to punish armor that people...
the multi hit is what enables this, and sb's multi hit is faster than swings while lasting about the same duration.
if you press hs and i react with sb ur getting punished. If u press sonic blade and i react with sb ur getting punished. If u dark ring on oz and i react with sb ur getting punished
etc
so i don't think it's a Godlike button, but I do think ur underselling it
twin pawn
under the assumption their only button ever is something that gets beat then sure but its at best a panic button and at worst an expensive button you're pressing to whiff
sinful anvil
under the assumption their only button ever is something that gets beat then sur...
That's not under the assumption that their only button ever is something that gets beat. It's under the assumption that you press it as a reaction to seeing a button that you know is punishable by lingering multi-hit. "At best a panic button" is just wrong. At best, it's a 0 cost protected super armor punish that can be pressed on reaction.
twin pawn
like its an incredibly mid button
sinful anvil
That's not under the assumption that their only button ever is something that ge...
And if you think that a 0 cost protected super armor punish that can be pressed on reaction is "incredibly mid", then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
twin pawn
considering there is 0 delay and the button has to actually land and assuming they have decent reaction speed on a super armor button they'll be fine lol...
like u can... run out of it
like a raven can shadow step through it and live
a PR who has hands after swing will just jump or dash out if shes not running into a literal wall
like how often have u actually seen this button used or been victim to it realistically
sinful anvil
considering there is 0 delay and the button has to actually land and assuming th...
You don't need a delay when a player is animation locked during their super armor. The button will land if it is used on a player who is animation locked in a super armor button they just pressed. It's not a matter of reaction speed when you're being multi-hit during a super armor animation and your only option is to mash either an iframe or another super armor during the vulnerable gap at the end of your current super armor animation. SB multi-hits too fast for you to out mash it, you're going to get hit.
full stop.
twin pawn
rrriiiiight
sinful anvil
It's a not a matter of whether or not you "have hands", or whether or not you have "decent reaction speed", it's going to hit you during the gap in your protection chain, assuming that gap exists.
twin pawn
lol
sinful anvil
?
twin pawn
what
sinful anvil
like a raven can shadow step through it and live
A raven who sonic blades and gets SB'd towards the end of it is going to get hit.
twin pawn
mhm
sinful anvil
?
twin pawn
?
sinful anvil
You think I'm lying?
twin pawn
a little yeah
sinful anvil
do you have a raven?
twin pawn
do you have sb?
twin pawn
saturation bombing is challenge only
and we cleared berthe challenge not even 4 months ago
nobody has sb lmao
sinful anvil
every FB has sb...
twin pawn
saturation bombing
sinful anvil
sonic blade
twin pawn
and no i dont have a raven theyre low prio for my collection
twin pawn
ill give you swing i wont give you sat bomb
sinful anvil
ill give you swing i wont give you sat bomb
if you give me swing you'd have to give me sat bomb, because swing's slower multi-hit makes it more of a toss up than sat bomb. Depending on the timing of the multi-hits, there's a chance that raven's armor could end right after 1 of the swing hits. If this happens, there's enough time before the next swing hit for him to maybe mash obten or a follow-up SA. Maybe.
This isn't the case with sat bomb. The hit rate is too high for him to have a realistic chance of getting a mash off during the time between 2 hits.
sinful anvil
thx
dusk dock
hollow hound
Balanced, of course.
hollow hound
Balanced, of course.
dusk dock
cycle?
sinful anvil
@cyan quail
twin pawn
panzaaa busta
cyan quail
Wut
sinful anvil
@cyan quail
fiery lionBOT
.skwrl. has been warned
sinful anvil
.
dusk dock
Today is my birthday!!!
I require some assistance.
Does anyone here know how to play Ain 3rd path in PvP?
Looking for someone to help me towards the right direction.
empty ore
Looking for someone to help me towards the right direction.
What do you wanna know
dusk dock
what skills to use and neutral besides derp dive
dusk dock
What do you wanna know
basically what to bring on my hotbar
empty ore
A basic bar
You stack Gottvergassen sense
Mod
Fessln should be evil trait
Neutral consists of >>^XZ in the air or >>ZZ looping on the ground
XXXX or XXX<X with moder thrown in for KD reduction.
Put Fesseln on them and watch them suffer.
Got lots of mp and they're running? Befreiung Feld.
Got mp burning Fesseln on and got some mp? Chaos feld and watch that mp of theirs burn away.
Or you can just be broken and press Gott and watch thier hp melt away.
Gott also gets stronger depending on how much max mp you have.
A key thing to remember is your ruler of the abyss buff
If these two are lit up
Your next skill gets a 15% damage increase. So you can use two weak skills, get the buff, awaken and gott for big damage.
dusk dock
@empty ore Thank you. One last question.
What's Ain's escape skill?
I can't seem to find it.
twin pawn
hbd
empty ore
Happy birthday dude
coarse geyser
Happy Birthday!
dusk dock
Thanks~
sinful anvil
HAPPY BDAYU DEKOMLEV
celest ore
๐
celest ore
๐ญ
kindred frost
Damn
sinful anvil
Still one of the worst actives turned escape.
insanity
idk how backstep gets turned into an eacape
she literally has no basic dodge skill
every1 has basic dodge skill???
not roseโฆ
heavy spear
btw today's my birthday
hap bort
hollow hound
Heppy berdey.
dusk dock
HAPPY BDAYU DEKOMLEV
Thanks Mishani
dusk dock
Heppy berdey.
Thank you so much
empty ore
every1 has basic dodge skill???
It didn't, she still has backstop.
Luciel don't have a basic dodge, neither does lithia
twin pawn
Ara doesn't either
oblique sundial
Luciel basic dodge is clicking v
noble pelican
Happy birthday!
oblique sundial
damn
s rank is actually a trash can
this is a really fun game i really like the single player mode
its a secret mode you can unlock by getting the first catch in 1v1 arena
mental rose
It didn't, she still has backstop.
???
twin pawn
???
Needle Sobat has backstep in it
all they did was move the skill to needle sobat
Backstep --> her escape skill
Needle Sobat (without double tapping) --> old backstep
mental rose
Needle Sobat has backstep in it
oh whaaaaaa
wait
is it a two-skills-in-one type thing like u keep mashing the button and it will transition into backstep after sobat?
wait
twin pawn
two skill in one
mental rose
Backstep --> her escape skill
Needle Sobat (without double tapping) --> old back...
the backstep comes first?
fiery lionBOT
mishani has been warned
twin pawn
afaik only BkM has space to slot needle sobat
the other 3 don't
maybe PO can but idts
mental rose
yeeaaahh i think i would have always slotted it beforte but
twin pawn
MN doesn't have space and neither does TB
mental rose
ever since i thought they removed it I ve had the slot occupied so
now it would b awkward to put it back...
GOOD TO KNOW IT STILL THERE THO LOL
twin pawn
and u can technically replace it with Spriggan if u really wanted to bc Spriggan + Fog is funny
someone fogs you just press spriggan bc even when spriggan "ends) she's still in iframe for like a full 2-3s
mental rose
spriggan is nice but i become an int master with that skill bc my brain automatiaclly treats it like sdk
twin pawn
its funny when ppl blow their buttons on you bc of it but spriggan has a weird thing where it SHOULD cancel itself and give the refund and doesn't and idk why it does that
mental rose
someone fogs you just press spriggan bc even when spriggan "ends) she's still in...
ok nwo thats
crazy
well not crazy but
thats nice
twin pawn
it's funny
if spriggan cancels itself and ur fogged when she "stands" upright (like she's got a regular hitbox/is just idle) she's still in iframe
mental rose
thats how sdk frames used to be. Ever since renewals tho sdk becomes vulnerable in the middle of the slide ๐
mental rose
if spriggan cancels itself and ur fogged when she "stands" upright (like she's g...
will sh ejust stand therte
invuln
twin pawn
yeah
mental rose
lookn like shes
twin pawn
for like a second or two
mental rose
lOL
mental rose
yeah
twin pawn
bc of fog
mental rose
that rings a bell for some reason
twin pawn
I've used it to dodge someone blowing like 400 mp on me
mental rose
yuppp
twin pawn
and its just very funny when it happens bc you can tell they think ur targetable
but
it kiiinda happens similarly with backstep but backstep isn't as safe (bc when she does land the iframe is gone) but she just takes longer
but backstep is also funny to use bc some people literally dont know it has iframes (?) for some reason so they will also dump buttons on you
needle sobat backstep not escape skill backstep
mental rose
yeah backstep has always been
oddly effective
inmy exp at least
like more effective than it looks
twin pawn
i think it's one of the best "non escape" skills
twin pawn
bc it's fast, has a hitbox and she moves away from you
if you're not rushing her in super armor she'll probably get away/reversal
mental rose
rly similar to old bfs