pvp

[twin pawn]

with everything going on ur switching to the title to mana break despite probably already being anim locked into a skill perhaps

[cyan quail]

Well not necessarily, he chains different mechanics right after each other

[twin pawn]

yes or no

[cyan quail]

My argument wasn't for title switching in this instance, although you could already be in ress title due to other mechanics, but it's another situation u want to break in even though you're already in superarmor

[cyan quail]

If ur a support ur more than likely already in a ress title tbf

Unless you're walling

[twin pawn]

wall is a res title

[cyan quail]

Yeah

Most of the ress titles come as double dipping for their effects

[twin pawn]

okay but the argument is mana breaking with this title on and having it on consistently on anemos

which is why im arguing its not worth doing on an anemos who's probably not wearing this title for long periods of time

bc thats.... stuoid

i am not arguing the EFFICACY of mana breaking

im arguing the likelihood of HAVING this title on and mana breaking

[cyan quail]

Idk about Anemos, she's supposed to be main DPS so staying on it is counterproductive unless trying to animation skip aero Tornado or stay alive during a mechanic in endgame bossing

[twin pawn]

that is quite literally my entire point

anemos is not having this title on for more than at best 4 seconds

[cyan quail]

Theres very few scenarios on AN specifically since she's so fast, I would've said one of her kick skills but that got recently changed so it's literally just aero Tornado and airelinna

[twin pawn]

and if she does need to mana break shes doing it without the title on to begin with bc shes already getting the mp back from breaking bc of airelinna and healers

so again, the likelihood of her having this title on and pressing aero tornado is incredibly unlikely bc its a dps button... and she'd want NF on

[cyan quail]

My main argument is that them tying free manabreak on a ress title is them acknowledging it as part of end game bossing mechanics where some classes are inconvenienced by long animation skills and have to resort to that during some mechanics

[twin pawn]

okay and thats not at all what my argument is

[cyan quail]

On AN specifically she doesn't have to unless she's pressing any of those 2 skills

[twin pawn]

bc im not talking about mana breaking as a mechanic

[cyan quail]

Which is very unlikely as she even has a reset mechanic

[twin pawn]

ive acknowledged that some skills are long i.e HAs and youd need to mana break

you are most likely not wearing this title for longer than 5 seconds to awaken and swap so therefore the mana breaking part of it is most likely moot bc you're already running with healers in places you WOULD mana break in

so the recovery doesnt really matter bc you wont... need it

[cyan quail]

Yeah even when we factor in CDA and green set there's even fewer chances for her to Aero Tornado skip

[twin pawn]

if you need to mana break do so but youre most likely not doing it with this title on

[cyan quail]

It's not that great for her

[twin pawn]

which is my entire point

youre not wearing this title long enougj for it to truly matter in the long run

[cyan quail]

Ye I was mostly talking in general, since there are classes that are actually burdened

[sinful anvil]

akshually

[cyan quail]

Also like AN has a ress passive anyway

[sinful anvil]

u were the 1 who iinitially zoned in on AN, I was talking about mana breaking in general as a mechanic

[cyan quail]

She doesn't even need to switch to ress unless she wants to GoE

As far as I read it was mostly about breaking in PvE yeah

[sinful anvil]

then, i mused ab out how fast her quick rise is + how much distance her wakeup roll covers

[twin pawn]

bc ur talking ab quick rise

which Anemos has

and in general you are not wearing the title long enough for the "free mb" to matter

[cyan quail]

It's nice when u have to break

But she shouldn't be breaking often to begin with

[sinful anvil]

i only started talking ab that afterwards, aftr u specific mentioned AN, i was like wlel if we're talking specifically AN ten that quick rise coupled with rena's wake up roll is pretty crazy

[cyan quail]

Not enough skills to make it worth so

[sinful anvil]

and always has been

[twin pawn]

yeah and she can do that without wearing the title

[cyan quail]

Unless we are talking specific endgame mechanics....but she even has a ress

[twin pawn]

so it doesnt matter

ur talking ab free mb as if it matters whether or not its free in pve

[sinful anvil]

and ur entire point wasnt' that anemos specifically doesnt have 2 break often, u said that in pve i ngeneral u arent mana breaking

then us tarted tyapping about how thats y giant stone apples exist

[cyan quail]

Tldr just don't get hit, and if u do just break

Ez

[twin pawn]

you arent if you literally dont have to

[sinful anvil]

and that iu shouldnt be getting stunlocked

[twin pawn]

you shouldnt

[sinful anvil]

and i told you

you can mana break in armor

[twin pawn]

bc its true you shouldnt be

but you dont have to

unless in emergencies

which are few and far between

bc you can counter balance getting pushed back by things by just... holding the opposite direction

i.s 18-1 spider push back

just... walk towards her when she pushes you back and you dont even move

[sinful anvil]

an thought abotu just how quick anemo's break + wakeup is its litro instant, h ell u dotn even have to roll u can do it in place

[twin pawn]

okay but its centered around wearing the title is it not

which you arent doing majority of the time

[twin pawn]

and if you need to mana break youre potting

so mana breaking is already basically free... adding on top the fact that healers exist

[sinful anvil]

it just seems like a powerful option to have, so even though I'm not neck deep in PvE, seeing u make s big sweeping statement like 'it doesnt matter you're never mana breaking in PvE, the 100mp is only there to justify the 20mp in pvp,', that raised some alarms

[twin pawn]

youre never mana breaking if you dont have to 😭

[sinful anvil]

goe dropped

[twin pawn]

youre talking ab it as if youre A) wearing the title for it to matter

[sinful anvil]

with 10mp in pvp

i dont think there was a pve counterpart to 'justify' it

[twin pawn]

B) using the title for longer than 5s

[sinful anvil]

10mp for breaking

pve and pvp

[cyan quail]

Imma be real, just get the ress title in the IBs

[sinful anvil]

why would they need to justify it

[twin pawn]

neither of those things are realistic

[cyan quail]

Berserk, Sacrifice and GoE lovechild

[twin pawn]

and if you're going to be breaking youre not wearing the title anyway

[cyan quail]

Just drop 50k KC ez

[sinful anvil]

get ya swap game u p

[twin pawn]

which is the point.... the "free" break wont matter bc its already basically free if your healer is doing their job

like ur not gonna be pressing aero tornado or a dps skill with this title on bc youd want the damage boost from NF...

and if thats the case youd just... mana break

without it on...

[cyan quail]

If anything just airelinna

[twin pawn]

and airelinna aint even that long either so like

[cyan quail]

AN has super fast skills otherwise

[sinful anvil]

cast skill then swap

[twin pawn]

you do realize you have to wait a moment to swap right

[cyan quail]

The options nice but I don't see a big case for ANs usage

[twin pawn]

casting a skill and then swapping doesnt work

if youre in the animation already

[sinful anvil]

i thnk that in principle

its crazy

[twin pawn]

sure if youre wearing it for it to matter

[sinful anvil]

make mana break free

u not even breaking mana

[twin pawn]

or if youre... not running with healers

or something

[cyan quail]

I'd say its good for serp

[twin pawn]

or you dont have pots (?)

[cyan quail]

Where ur skills and quick slots get silenced

So u don't have as much access to mp recovery

[twin pawn]

i fear if thats happening theres other issues needing to be dealt with in your run

[cyan quail]

Yeah

[twin pawn]

and mana breaking in that case is not saving you

[cyan quail]

Also like if u have the title u don't even need to run the raid anymore anyway

[sinful anvil]

yeah all u ahve 2 do is grief in arena

thanks kog

[cyan quail]

It just makes it slightly easier for some classes

[twin pawn]

if theyre already wearing it yes

[cyan quail]

Watch out you do realize u need 12.5m CP to enter right

They're gonna whip u with their 12 fully abysstics soa

[sinful anvil]

thats wat im saying

[cyan quail]

Tank u and then break for free

💀

[sinful anvil]

1nce u get title

thewre no mobs 2 hit

so u queue arena

and pve there

_--

the most obnoxious types players bro

[twin pawn]

its 20 mp in pvp which i think is a lot more egregious but yes

[sinful anvil]

and if they lose aftrwards somehow they gna type "gg! whew! fun match!"

[twin pawn]

bc of how mpr works and how cheap most buttons are 20 mp is a little insane but

[cyan quail]

Pair it with WM or champion accessories

Ur basically avoiding taxes

Insane

[cyan quail]

Ya didn't u know pvp is an endgame mode

[sinful anvil]

remember when 3% crit was bis on Face Accessory (bottom) 😂

[cyan quail]

Better start Qing some Trosh Nest for some more attack or defense

[sinful anvil]

ive been soloing trosh all day

i just need osme1 2 afk

in my party

so id otn ahev to keep

requeuing

for buff'

hfc

jfc

[cyan quail]

Rigo is mad outdated

You have to get into 16-2 now

[sinful anvil]

im doing it for mater drops

master

[cyan quail]

You'd be greatly sought after tbh

AN has really good clearing

[empty ore]

I'd just like to add on to something. To make use of Concerto's mana break +100 feature you'd need to break a mechanic that you know wouldnt kill you through iframes.
You would need to switch off that DPS title, to concerto. Ruining your damage for a bit. Break, swap back to your dps title to continue doing dps damage. For 100mp.

[sinful anvil]

what's 16-2

[cyan quail]

Plegas

Pruinaum Outskirts

Or however it's spelled

[sinful anvil]

i need early's castle 4 freed shadow..

earl's*

[cyan quail]

It's the new exp farming dungeon

Not really new but it's a clear upgrade over trosh

[empty ore]

I wouldnt even worry about FS if you're lacking in other areas

[sinful anvil]

mine expires

in 20 days

[cyan quail]

Ya u gotta get ur ERP levels up

[sinful anvil]

i am just giong 2 use the anns pass

ptos

lOL

osmeone said they're 10b exp

[cyan quail]

That's not getting u to 350

[sinful anvil]

btu that doesnt seem

right?

[empty ore]

Whats your current erp

[sinful anvil]

177 i think

or 76

[cyan quail]

No it is but the exp curve hard rises

[twin pawn]

it is 10b

[empty ore]

yeah thats not getting you to 300

[sinful anvil]

i saw on wiki it was liek

[empty ore]

maybe 230?

[sinful anvil]

2b for 200

[cyan quail]

Different pots

[sinful anvil]

800m for 150

[cyan quail]

This season's is different

[sinful anvil]

i used a pot and got 8 levels

yeah but the previous seasons pots are going for cheaper

on board

[cyan quail]

You need more exp as u keep leveling

[sinful anvil]

than these 1s

[cyan quail]

What sets these apart is they can be used up until 350

I think previous were only until 300

But you need to use a bunch of them to begin with after 250

I know from experience

[sinful anvil]

ii am not baout 2 go thru the hastle of sellingthem andbuying odler 1s to maek + profit either o my god

im so over it

[cyan quail]

I spent 10b to get from 250 to 300

On those pots

But then u realize u could've just farmed for those levels anyway

[sinful anvil]

who

[cyan quail]

The exp is very easy to obtain once you have ur exp setup

[twin pawn]

getting to 300 is incredibly easy the pots are just for lazy people

[sinful anvil]

oh wait

this elwiki chart

[cyan quail]

Exp ERP, exp weapon and ur good to go

[sinful anvil]

isnt

2.1b total its

2.1b for 1 level

ic

[cyan quail]

You get more exp stuff the more levels you get

[twin pawn]

yes the exp requirement per level gets higher and higher

[cyan quail]

So you have enough CP to enter

[sinful anvil]

well im just

[twin pawn]

im p sure gastan says he does 6 cycles for 1 level

[sinful anvil]

1 tpaping trosh with a TB atm

for MC drops

goign 2 stop after 200

[cyan quail]

You're not masterclass?

[sinful anvil]

no

im on 2/5

[cyan quail]

Well I guess 😭

[sinful anvil]

i tried to see

[cyan quail]

You need 250 for pvp iirc

[sinful anvil]

if ic ould do it

with

erp in exp

but i dont have enough

to pput into exp

and sitll ba ble to reliably 1 tap the mobs

💀

othrwise 2 bird 1 stone..

[cyan quail]

Uhhh

[sinful anvil]

but i use pass potions tn probly

[cyan quail]

Remember to use guild contracts and get ur exp medal

[sinful anvil]

idk if its worth stakcign exp if i dont even have

erp in it

LOL

[cyan quail]

You can also replace crit sockets for exp

Since you are more than likely overlapping through spa buff + giant pot

They give u a lot of crit

[sinful anvil]

im using

raid buff

[cyan quail]

It's why people have extra 5/5 ibs

[sinful anvil]

camp buff

w/e

[cyan quail]

Spa gives u exp

[sinful anvil]

yeah

[cyan quail]

Raid is nice for damage but it's some Trosh nest

[sinful anvil]

tbh i shud probly use spaw i jsu twanted the adap..

[cyan quail]

You don't need that much adapt do u

[sinful anvil]

trosh nest but

on an alt tb

thats not master class..

[cyan quail]

Oh

💀

[sinful anvil]

w/e its just

[cyan quail]

I think the reason why you can't reliably oneshot is bc it's an alt 😭

[sinful anvil]

until i hit 200 mats anyways

[cyan quail]

Yeah just finish the quest if

If*

Ig

[sinful anvil]

r i have enough for 5 collection cahrs

but

idk y

they make

eve/add

separate drops that is so aids

tbh iw ondr if cs can 1 tpa trosh...

[cyan quail]

Photon Tracker after aggroing them to the right

But idk if an alts gear is enough

[sinful anvil]

giga stream ignore def

maybe w +10 fiohk

w/e

tbh will just leech for 2 eve 1 noah IDC

sik of colelctions...

[mystic elbow]

Photon your best bet unless u have a good freezer

[dusk dock]

uh

doesnt RH win by like

2 oneshots

.

[mystic elbow]

Yes?

[stable nymph]

ya photon tracker is basicaly just tb plasma shok

[warm hornet]

it takes 3 or more for me.

[dusk dock]

we get it

you are fat

[warm hornet]

[buoyant folio]

A

[sinful anvil]

any1 need mc quest drops???

u can leech afk if u join my pt i just need some1 so i dont have to keep requeing for the buff

[hollow hound]

I somehow manage to tank RH's and OM's nukes yesterday.

They ran out of mana and panicked.

Lol, I remember that time when I fought a IM, he casted Sword Fall, I dodged it, the IM stood still and after a few seconds, he left the arena match.

I don't know if that was pure coincidence or not, but it was so comedic timed that I laughed a lot that day.

[dusk dock]

i can't name them but i can assume who they are.

[dusk dock]

pls tell me you recorded it

[hollow hound]

DM.

[hollow hound]

Sadly, no.

I don't usually record my matches. :c

[sinful anvil]

megaton press is a clean skill

LLOL

[sinful anvil]

i like how the elwiki impact hammer vdo is still conspire's clip https://elwiki.net/w/Impact_Hammer

LOL

[empty ore]

Are you playing Mtm or leveling her for collection

[sinful anvil]

😈

[empty ore]

Hey im all here for Mishani the Aisha main

Master ^^z with 20% double attack and you'll be unstoppable

[sinful anvil]

im ENJOYINGH her 4 collection **

cuz

i have master quest taken care of

ngl

i pressed

megaton press

4 1st time

and it immediately put a grin across my face LMAO

that has 2 b a goated skill...

the balls actually have their own physx and follow platfforms its so fu nny

[empty ore]

Havent really played around with it since the change

Im glad it got better cause man it was mid before

[sinful anvil]

what was the change

idk what it was like kbefore but i cant stop pressing th is thing

im pressing it on single mobs LMAO

[knotty kraken]

why stop at 20%

[empty ore]

Gotta keep you other stats up too

[sinful anvil]

avalanche rp

[empty ore]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSc2c8qoHvc
It used to be a lot slower

[sinful anvil]

bro this is like

a physx sandbox typte skill

LOL

it i s jsut fun to use...

WAITS THATS BIG BRAIN

PRESSING IT IN TYRANTS

and hten tping to front LOL

what was slower

the balls?

ya idk if its bc of the videos frame rate but hte balls look slwoer

wait does super nova succ from off screen hgello

LOL

[kindred frost]

I hate this game fr

[empty ore]

Who hurt you

[kindred frost]

my own poor skills

[warm hornet]

it's not that bad...?

[warm hornet]

it still covered a lot of ground tho.

[dusk dock]

My fellow Aisha mains.
A friend of mine requires some help with 4th path.
Just ping me if you have an answer for her

[fiery lion]

.skwrl. has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[sinful anvil]

CURIOUS!

[cyan quail]

[empty ore]

Understanding Aisha is simple. You're a mage, the spells you cast are more important than commands

cause they suck, especially on LA.

Esp in pve, unless you're metamorphy you got no reason to be even pressing Z

So you get your mp, you press your skills and kill stuff

LA has really good clearing

silver tree and Enough mineral to handle nearly everything.

Once you advance to Lord Azoth you get mp % gained per mob killed.

Keep homunculus out at all times. Use your white and blue flask

[sinful anvil]

mtm clear is garbage oml

[dusk dock]

@empty ore tysm

[empty ore]

Yeah all she got is impact Zone

[kindred frost]

I honestly cant objectively say, I just get in my feelins when I keep losing

So I made a private channel on another server where I scream about pvp so I stop embarrasing myself in chat

[mystic elbow]

did u start recording your matches

[kindred frost]

yeah I have

I think last night was lag, there were people lagging

[mystic elbow]

yea for me personally I honestly think being able to analyze your matches and see where u went wrong

and learn to apply that knowledge constantly

is what causes u to get better in 2s

(1s who cares one shot harder)

[celest ore]

hit my first 1.1m last night

though tbf i think the person had like no gear

[mystic elbow]

smoked

ngl i haven't done 1s arena on SH in a long time

[dusk dock]

1s so fun

2s so stressful

3s who

;c

[mystic elbow]

1s is boring

[dusk dock]

how so

[mystic elbow]

its linear, no match is all that different from the other

[twin pawn]

bc it doesn't really matter what you do in 1s against some of the high tiers if ur evenly matched

[mystic elbow]

if u lose the first few interactions u typically just.. lose

unless your opponent messes up horribly

[twin pawn]

and also it's incredibly boring fighting a high tier pvp class in 1s bc they literally dont do anything out of the normal

ur fighting a CA? she's dash slapping until she catches you which makes it harder to approach

and yeah there's nothing in a 1s match that's entirely different everytime you do it

other than the map

2s can be kind of boring as well bc of wide range nukes but you can at least lose some of your interactions and come back from it

its harder to do that in 1s

and u can say just dont lose ur interactions which, duh, but playing from behind is a lot harder

[celest ore]

mayb i should try 2s

[twin pawn]

ill eat your bones

[celest ore]

😭

[twin pawn]

[mystic elbow]

if u wanna

[twin pawn]

like imo the worst thing ab 2s is the nukes and delays

[mystic elbow]

personally i find 2s fun but it does get annoying pretty quickly

yea

[twin pawn]

other than that I find it fairly fun

bc every match can be different

ur not really steamrolling bc of class matchups bc anything can happen

1s is.. not the same

[mystic elbow]

since character balance is probably the worst its ever been

a lot of these characters have the option to just turn their brain off against u and still win

even when u do win

its not fun

[twin pawn]

me fighting T*ashMP and winning and not feeling the joy of victory

I just feel annoyed

[mystic elbow]

yea pretty much

or techdevi

😭

(and i love techdevi) however

not only did they play from pluto

[twin pawn]

like u basically wasted my time please go away

[mystic elbow]

they mp burned

[twin pawn]

trashmp running burning and dark on MP

like ohhh you're sooooo much fun

[mystic elbow]

n even if u play a crazy character like CA

winning isn't fun either bc ofc you're gonna win its frickin CA

[twin pawn]

CA in 1s never felt rewarding

when i played her

[hollow hound]

Me when RH.

[twin pawn]

bc its like

its CA

[hollow hound]

💀

[twin pawn]

there's very little she loses against in a 1v1 bc of how that class is designed

[mystic elbow]

unless you're sum a**ka (spar player)

you're not feeling rewarded by winning on these characters

[twin pawn]

back before they nerfed her healing

I fought this CA who'd literally run around and clock for it

and it was so annoying

basically hit and run clocking on CA and its like ur a CA...

[mystic elbow]

so then u go onto a worse char lets say CE compared to CA and u win its still not fun because u had to do so much more to win than the other char

[twin pawn]

like idk when I played Devi in 1s

it's either a huge skill gap (which isnt fun imo) or it's a huge class diff and by the time I win im like alright ig

[hollow hound]

qq

Sadge.

[mystic elbow]

dont get me wrong I love playing CE but lets be fr

fighting CA on CE

is genuine torture

[twin pawn]

like me fighting an RV who was infinitely worse than me and i lose and im like this not even fun bc if you were more skilled you probably would've beat me bc of how stupid RV is

[hollow hound]

That's why.

[twin pawn]

or pre-nerf Aisha charging and ur fighting any Aisha and all theyre doing is running around and clocking

and ur like okay.

[mystic elbow]

idk playing 1s doesn't make me want to be better at the game

playing 2s did cuz I wanted to compete w/ other players b be a better teammate

[hollow hound]

Everytime I face a RH, RV or CA I cry internally.

[twin pawn]

me fighting a DaB pre-NF nerf and she's tanking just to nuke me

[mystic elbow]

yea cuz CE feeds a lot (any eve does rly, theyre just better at managing kd)

[twin pawn]

[hollow hound]

Yeah, like, a lot.

[mystic elbow]

Me after fighting runner AeS

[twin pawn]

i used to like 1s but it's never been my preferred way of pvping

[mystic elbow]

[twin pawn]

bro fighting an Aisha in 1s

especially AeS

on Devi

and she's got a 100 mp lead

[mystic elbow]

idm doing 1s its just not enjoyable unless im trolling on TP

[twin pawn]

you basically have to pray she sucks

[mystic elbow]

exactly 😭

like u had to access higher brainpower to fight AeS

on any Ara

[twin pawn]

bc she'll just toss out skills and you're sitting there at 0 mp bc ur probably breaking her

[hollow hound]

No, the worst is by far the runner Elboi, because I can expect an AeS running around but an Elboi? 💀

[mystic elbow]

gods fighting that one elbow player

makes me genuinely upset

cuz why are u GS

and running

[hollow hound]

😢

[mystic elbow]

against my lil SH bro

YOULL WIN ANY INTERACTION

[twin pawn]

me playing a monkey char (redhead) and im running

[mystic elbow]

anytime he joins my room its the same feeling as

if i were to q against mutantwraith

[twin pawn]

oh brother

LMAOOOO

[mystic elbow]

n the upsetting part is ik i win against this player its just

the longest match ever

[twin pawn]

to get there

it's just not fun

bc im chasing

and its like godddddddddddddddddddd

atp i'd rather lose to get it over with

but my ego wont let me

[celest ore]

i dont think i should take my es into 2s but maybe mn?

[mystic elbow]

yessss bru

MN is good

the number 1 thing that lets me win against that elbow

his him for some reason going into SA against Shakti

w/o a plan

[twin pawn]

Laby is also a char I fight that I never enjoy fighting

bc there's nothing about fighting a Laby that is ever enjoyable to me

[mystic elbow]

200mp Shakti yea lemme go into iron body and run at them

Laby is like

burning food

just ruins the entire night

especially if its spar cuz there will always.. be 1 laby

or 1 genesis

or 1 ca

never a match w/o that golden trio

[twin pawn]

I think I never enjoy fighting Laby bc

her hitboxes

are just

incredibly stupid

and I just never enjoy fighting that thing bc its like

trying to catch an actual rat

[mystic elbow]

her physics just make no sense to me

girlie can back step out of

any of my combos

for no reason

[twin pawn]

she's in the air doing whatever it is she does and I can barely smack her out of the air bc i'll probably get knocked by a hitbox and im like alright

and im hitstunned longer than she is

[mystic elbow]

then they can just not interact til their 80mp boom

comes up

cuz their dashes cost no mp (change that)

[twin pawn]

Laby is so bad that I can't even pick one that I think is more annoying than the others

they all have something I find incredibly stupid and obnoxious

[mystic elbow]

right..?

I fight any of them n its just a bad time all around

love her consistency to ruin my day

actually a better way to describe fighting laby

[twin pawn]

TP has whimsy (why) RaS is RaS, EtW spends negative mp on anything ever, and NL presses Look and I just take my hands off the keyboard

[mystic elbow]

is seeing tesla cybertruck

[twin pawn]

like maaaybe I find TP the most annoying but it's not by a lot

[mystic elbow]

i think I find TPs just objectively worse as pilots

[twin pawn]

and its only bc why the hell does that character get stoic AND a cleanse AND 75 booms

[mystic elbow]

than any other Laby

[twin pawn]

and why is Fee Fi Fo so goddamn stupid

tracking skill that u can't rlly do anything about bc it lasts forever

[twin pawn]

atp idc how ppl play Laby as pilots

[mystic elbow]

a tracking skill that costs literally nothing

joy

[twin pawn]

yeah u can tell a good Laby from a bad one but do it really matter

it's Laby

[mystic elbow]

it doesn't but im atp where

im more cautious against

other labys

than I am w/ TP

cuz its like they just dont use their buttons

[twin pawn]

they can run their feet on the keyboard and be fine

[mystic elbow]

correctly anyway

[twin pawn]

I find TP's will generally just press Whimsy and pray for the best

[dusk dock]

RH

[mystic elbow]

thats one of the better ways cuz not many classes can rly do anything against it

[twin pawn]

okay but RH is actually a monkey class

[mystic elbow]

but all of her buttons

r like that

[hollow hound]

😭

Omg...

[twin pawn]

RH pilots will tank until 300 mp and then nuke you

[hollow hound]

Imagine Sage playing RH...

[mystic elbow]

ngl ill fight RH over any other Raven

[twin pawn]

and im supposed to act like they're skilled

[dusk dock]

i prefer FB

[twin pawn]

I'll fight RH over any other Raven bc I find RH pilots r bad bc they tank and expect to nuke you

[dusk dock]

^

[twin pawn]

but it's so incredibly easy to tell when an RH is gonna want to nuke you

[dusk dock]

^^^^^^^^

[twin pawn]

that when they do you can avoid it

[mystic elbow]

i think theyre allergic to playing neutral

[twin pawn]

like it's stupid when they land it

[dusk dock]

what's that

idk what it is

(me when I lie)

[twin pawn]

but RHs are objectively some of the worst players in the game imo bc they literally just get hit and nuke

[hollow hound]

I should record my matches more often.

[dusk dock]

you should

and then post it on YT

[mystic elbow]

RH and LiB just have the same gameplan in 1s

[twin pawn]

and ur supposed to act like they're skilled or something

[dusk dock]

and get 200 subs

like me

😄

[mystic elbow]

ngl i rarely watch youtube els unless its guides

rather watch twitch streams

[twin pawn]

like i'll never praise an RH for doing the bare minimum bc im like ur an RH

[dusk dock]

Els YT is ok

i just post those vids for fun

i mainly post DBFZ vids

[mystic elbow]

praise RH for having gear

[twin pawn]

I will also never praise an RV for anything

[mystic elbow]

🤣

[twin pawn]

[mystic elbow]

thats y

[dusk dock]

RH +12 goes crazy

[hollow hound]

Yeah like, wow, you OP bc you won me like 32434 times with the same old strag.

[mystic elbow]

when ppl were gassing up mutant i was like

???

[dusk dock]

its peak cinema

[mystic elbow]

its RV

..

[twin pawn]

like

[mystic elbow]

delayed.. RV..

who is winning against that

[twin pawn]

when ppl talk ab RV im like what are we praising rn

its RV

[dusk dock]

RV is

annoying

[twin pawn]

he has 75 stoic frames and can act out of almost all of them

[dusk dock]

how do you have more stoic than RH

😭

[mystic elbow]

by being pre nerf AD

[twin pawn]

FB is sometimes more bearable but I get annoyed when I have an FB on my team in 2s

and they have full mp

[dusk dock]

nuking time

[mystic elbow]

but i still dont know why they ever buffed RVs command

[twin pawn]

and for some reason theyre allergic to the funny button

and im like

if you dont

press

the stupid button

[dusk dock]

they are sick

[twin pawn]

i feel the same with devi's in 2s

[dusk dock]

and dying is the cure

[twin pawn]

rak inferno is like 80 mp

why are we sitting at 400 mp not pressing anything

[mystic elbow]

so far the majority of my teammates just rly love awking right after I do

[twin pawn]

ur gonna hit something

[mystic elbow]

and ruining any catch

[twin pawn]

and even if u dont hit something

ur gonna eat an obten or a clock

[dusk dock]

so glad to be an Add main

😄

[twin pawn]

so eat it

[mystic elbow]

being an add player

wouldn't stop that

[twin pawn]

like toss the stupid inferno

[mystic elbow]

especially if you're a class like DB

[twin pawn]

DB players

[dusk dock]

no like my awk wont mess up your catch

:U

[twin pawn]

some of the most

[mystic elbow]

who's nuke can be easily clashed

[dusk dock]

DB pilots

[twin pawn]

incredible players in th egame

at pressing

everything

[dusk dock]

so flashy

[twin pawn]

and doing nothing

at the same time

[mystic elbow]

DB pilots? flashy?

in what point of time

[dusk dock]

its the only nothing they have

[twin pawn]

like me when I play DB and I'm doing that one skill that drags someone and i miss it

or i try to nuke and the nuke gets eaten

[dusk dock]

quicksilver accel

[twin pawn]

that one +12 DB player who i still stand ten toes down on being bad

oh

it was H*ops

[dusk dock]

oof

[mystic elbow]

😭

[twin pawn]

me having him on my team when he used to play CL and im like please log off

[dusk dock]

sounds like its time to slam jam

[twin pawn]

idkkk 1s is annoying but 2s is annoying bc ur teammate can ruin u for fun

[mystic elbow]

yea pretty much

[twin pawn]

but 2s is also annoying bc of classes like LB who tank and then press Mod Ambush for free

bc of full moon

[dusk dock]

sounds like the whole gamemode is annoying tbh

[hollow hound]

That's why I don't 2s, I don't want to ruin nobody's fun.

[twin pawn]

me when the ambush lands and does like 1m

[mystic elbow]

well

[twin pawn]

and does splash

[mystic elbow]

you're gonna ruin someones fun

regardless

[twin pawn]

like woooooo

i mean somtimes

delay clashing is inevitable

[mystic elbow]

and who cares cuz a lot of the ppl won't care about ruining your fun

[dusk dock]

hey

[twin pawn]

bc ur probably also trying to avoid something

[dusk dock]

it is what it is

[mystic elbow]

might as well just play

[twin pawn]

its just sometimes if ur not trying to do something/get away from something idk if you awking after your partner is very smort

[mystic elbow]

i was about to nuke

so I awk

then my partner

right in front of me

also awks

[twin pawn]

the worst

[mystic elbow]

like ??

[twin pawn]

is when u JUST hitstunned someone or you're ara and u do her z(z) and the second z removes the hitstun

and ur partner delays you

[mystic elbow]

yes..

[twin pawn]

and now you get reversed on

and ur like

alright.....

okay...........

[mystic elbow]

i honestly hate that ara has such unsafe combo routes

in 2s

^x and get delayed gz combo gone

zz and get delayed gz youre getting caught

[twin pawn]

yeah it's why i dont like ^x in 2s

bc any delay will ruin it

i either just commit to zz or x>x>x>x>x>x

[mystic elbow]

yea thats part of why i dont like playing ara in 2s

[twin pawn]

i mean I also hate playing Ara in 2s

bc Devi has

0 safe combos

xzx is so bad

and I hate how FL can do her >>^zx and delay each orb

but devi can't delay each orb

u either commit or only do one

[mystic elbow]

FL can also do >>XZ multiple times

before landing

idk about >>^ZX

[twin pawn]

oh wait

I think i'm talking ab her

[dusk dock]

[mystic elbow]

she can delay both

[twin pawn]

^xx(?)

or is it >>^xz

the 3 fire bolls

[mystic elbow]

^XZ

[twin pawn]

yeah

she can delay that

but devi cant

and it

annoys me

so bad

unironically sometimes it feels her most reliable combo

[mystic elbow]

Devi just becomes completely vulnerable in air after using her commands too

which is ghetto

[twin pawn]

is her >>^xxzz off a platform

so you can move with it

and catch

😭

like having the hitbox and the orbs come out while ur moving kinda broken

but yeah

Devi's too vulnerable when she's midair

bc if you dont follow through on a lot of her midair commands

she's screwed

[mystic elbow]

yea 💀

cant do anything after

so if someone is under u

u pretty much get caught

[twin pawn]

ya ur doomed

unless ur mashing high speed

[mystic elbow]

yea if u somehow get that out (lag)

[twin pawn]

spam print screen

[mystic elbow]

[twin pawn]

me fighting libra

[dark wind]

q 2s

[hollow hound]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5SoaYXopWg4

I feel bad for the KE.

[hollow hound]

I recorded a few matches.

[dusk dock]

yay!

[hollow hound]

💀

[heavy spear]

someone needs to upload an up-to-date dem pvp vid

still nothing (at least for 1s) since they made braveries cost mp

[abstract yacht]

I mean after the change DeM fell in 1s

like you might as well swap to Cata and kill ppl with a 20 MP cost active

[oblique sundial]

cata in ones is just really stupid, its hard to compete with a character that has a 40 mp boom and a ~300k nuke in the first interaction

theres no real point in comparing them unless you want to jc though

[oblique sundial]

tldr stack mp and loop blanket

[sinful anvil]

does aisha teleport cost still ramp up in pvp?

thats not possible with 4s cd right

[twin pawn]

it would if she could actually use it consistently

but since it resets bc of the cd, no it doesnt

i think it only applies to mtm(?)s wake up into another teleport but udr

[sinful anvil]

idk y they keep it on then

LOL

[twin pawn]

too lazy to change the tooltip

[sinful anvil]

not just tooltip its still a feature

[twin pawn]

p sure its something that only works in practice area

[sinful anvil]

the 4second cd is rly dumb

but

[twin pawn]

i dont think its dumb bc aisha is annoying

[sinful anvil]

w/e they love to butcher pvp

[twin pawn]

would you rather she didnt have a cd on it

[sinful anvil]

absolutely

[twin pawn]

why

[sinful anvil]

because tp is core to aisha's movement, and I think that not being able to deal with TP is 100% a player skill issue. You need to understand spacing at a basic level in order to deal with it, but once you do it's not a huge deal especially with the ramping mp cost.

putting a 4s CD on it makes the aisha matchup a lot less exciting to think about

[twin pawn]

what was exciting about it to begin with post forced

she could sit in obten or clock and get 100 mp

if anything it requires the aisha to think more

[sinful anvil]

that's not the fault of tp

[twin pawn]

and bc of how aisha plays shes not near you anyway

[sinful anvil]

that's the fault of charging

which they nerfed

[twin pawn]

her being able to run away for free bc of aisha's insane mp gain on commands is also stupid idk

[sinful anvil]

which aisha has insane mp gain on commands, mtm?

[twin pawn]

all of them..

[sinful anvil]

@empty ore is this tru

[twin pawn]

have you never seen an aisha xx loop

she sits there and gets free mp for nothing and you get very little in return

[sinful anvil]

how much mp does she get per hit on xx?

[twin pawn]

in my estimate she gets like what 20mp

[mystic elbow]

AeS has the best mp gain on commands

[twin pawn]

10-20

[sinful anvil]

nah

chill

lOL

[twin pawn]

and it wont feed you

[sinful anvil]

if she gets 20 mp

[mystic elbow]

Cuz AeS also has normal Aisha >>^XX

[sinful anvil]

per x

shes god

lOL

[twin pawn]

there are aishas who also stack mp gain on attack for that specific reason

bc she gets so much return out of it bc of how cheap fireballs are and how absolutely little they feed

[sinful anvil]

mp gain on attack is a meme it's not doing much beyond 30%

unless maybe you're

a multi hit character if you can osmehjow manage to squeeze out an additional 2mp

[twin pawn]

the only reason aisha's exist less is bc they killed charging and sitting there for free

like i dont think they need to revert tp at all

[sinful anvil]

that's not the only reason

[twin pawn]

and its affected by light trait and id assume mpr on the penalty anyway

with hyper accel and obten aisha's movement is better bc she can actually jump away from you, teleport, and still create insane distance

especially bc of how accel and tp interact

[sinful anvil]

dude TP having a 4second CD is humongous. If I played Aisha and they put a 4 second CD on teleport, I would legitimately swap characters or quit. I'm not even an Aisha player, but when i think about the Aisha matchup playing against a 4 second teleport, it's really depressing and boring compared to before.

[twin pawn]

i dont think its as big as u think it is considering how many aisha players just... play around it

[mystic elbow]

4 seconds isnt crazy what

[twin pawn]

like if u cant play around 4s of cd i think ur just bad

especially on Oz who can stop you in your tracks for free

AeS who needs one good lightning shower into lightning bolt for free stuns

aisha has tools to just... stop you

4s is not that big in the grand scheme of the kit of the char

like if ur a decent aisha you play around it and with how absolutely free chain fireball is you can freelo a tp every 4s

she at best would use tp 2x in a row on most maps

3x if its excessively large

[sinful anvil]

You have the character's core movement mechanics + their normals. Then, you have the character's kit in the form of skills and passives.

now I've argued ab out

[twin pawn]

do you think aisha actually needs a tp with 0 cd

y/n

thats all i want to know

[sinful anvil]

mana gain from charging asnd whatnot before, and about how her skills and etc are overtuned. While I may disagree w/ a lot of people on those things, I can agree that her specials and charging mp gain were an issue especially when paired with force skills.

[twin pawn]

yes or no

[mystic elbow]

Didnt she have that at one point

[twin pawn]

yes

she didnt get it to the 4s she has now before 2017

and she didnt get it period until 2016

like unless ur a redhead monkey aisha has so many tools to just stop you from approaching her if youre not literally in stoic lmao

a good aisha dances around that 4s cd like its childs play

like considering how aisha performs currently id say she doesnt even need the 0 cd tp bc... she does fine without it

[sinful anvil]

despite being a skill, TP falls under core movement mechanics + normals. Core movement mechanics + normals precede spec actives and passives. If Aisha gains 20mp per x button (idk if this is true but for the sake of convo we can grant it), and that mp gain allows her to treat the TP cost penalty nas negligible, then the problem isn't TP itself, the problem is her gaining 20mp per X in addition to being able to charge 10mp per second.

[twin pawn]

she doesnt charge 10

but again yes or no do you think she needs 0 cd tp

[sinful anvil]

i want to say it was 12

[twin pawn]

she doesnt charge 10 rn period

[sinful anvil]

yes because it got nerfed to half

[twin pawn]

yes

anyway yes or no

does she need 0 cd tp

https://youtu.be/1Zn5BvnQ4Kw?si=YQtZPQmXNfVdOpqo assume all her opponents are at equal level to her

[sinful anvil]

pay attention to the tense. My understanding is that TP nerf and charge nerf happened at the same time. Sicne the decisions were made simultaneously, I would assume that htey were being made in response to the same game state.

That initial game state

[twin pawn]

they didnt

[sinful anvil]

was 10mp/s

[twin pawn]

they did not happen at the same time

ever

[sinful anvil]

if they happened 1 after hte other then that's a lot worse

[twin pawn]

tp nerf happened first

[sinful anvil]

the*

yeah

ok

[twin pawn]

and charge nerf was bc she was abusing charging

[sinful anvil]

that makes a lot of sense too

[twin pawn]

so again yes or no

cd 0

y/n

thats all i want to know

[mystic elbow]

y/n…

[sinful anvil]

you're question is dumb, I can't answer it becuase I don't know what you mean by "needs 0 cd on teleport". Needs it for what?

to win games?

[twin pawn]

no in general

does she need it yes or no

[sinful anvil]

i dont know what you mean, it seems like a dumb question to me

[twin pawn]

does she need it for movement

does she need it to win games

does she need it to be 0cd in pvp period

yes or no

[sinful anvil]

yeah I need to know what you mean

[twin pawn]

how much clearer can i make it

you say its core to her movement so the cd is stupid

yes?

[sinful anvil]

yes

[twin pawn]

so does she need it to be 0 cd

for movement

yes

or

no

this question doesnt require a thesis

its a yes or no

[sinful anvil]

what do you m ean by needs it to be 0 cd, you're asking a dumb a^ss question and I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but you're pushing it. TP is core to Aisha's movement and it's also not the source of the problems people were experiencing against her PvP, evidenced by the fact that the TP nerf was followed up with charging MP gain nerf, which I would argue was way more on-point.

[twin pawn]

youre arguing for it to not be 4s

you also said it should be 0

[sinful anvil]

You're question is reductive, vague, and ambiguous.

yourt*

like

[mystic elbow]

I dont think this is a crazy question lol

[twin pawn]

how?

[sinful anvil]

I could make an argument

[twin pawn]

its a yes or no

[sinful anvil]

that she needs it

and I could make an argument

that she doesn't need it

it m akes no sesne

[twin pawn]

so whats the problem with the cd?

[sinful anvil]

im not even trolling

[twin pawn]

are these not your words

so why can you not answer yes or no to if she needs a 0 cd on tp

[mental rose]

you asked me would I Rather she didn't have a cd on it

[twin pawn]

especially when you say its humoungus

[mental rose]

yep

[twin pawn]

okay but why do you think she shouldnt?

[mental rose]

yes

[twin pawn]

have a cd on it

like this is not a crazy question when you pose her not having a cd on tp when clearly she performs well without it

[mental rose]

that's what I've been explaining, whiel you've b een dragging your knuckles spamming "y/n?? y/n?? u think she need?? y/n??"

like wha t od you mean by need???

its the same

[twin pawn]

youre arguing against a 4s cd as if it incredibly destroys her gameplay or something

which i think is stupid

lmao

like are u fighting slums A-SS aisha's or something

[mental rose]

with NF hitbox nerf, people did the same crap. "You think she NEEDS nf hitboxes?? hmm>?? she NEED it??? You beat DE and apocalypse without NF hitboxes so does she NEED them??"

the natural follow up would be

@twin pawn does she need TP for what?

need it for what

[twin pawn]

you say its for her movement in pvp

[mental rose]

what are you asking me

yes

[twin pawn]

does she need it for her movement in pvp

yes or no

[mental rose]

for what aspect

of her movement

[twin pawn]

in general. does she need tp for her movement in general in pvp

running, approaching, etc

given her insane mp gain on commands and how little she feeds she does not need her tp cd to be any lower than 4s bc its so incredibly easy to play around as an Aisha that its almost like it isnt even there

[mental rose]

need to make sure we're on the same page. Say Aisha is charging against a wall

and you're to the left of her, she's on the right wall.

[twin pawn]

is she at 0 mp

or estimate how much mp she has by this point

[mental rose]

lets say shes at like 20mp

[twin pawn]

okay

[mental rose]

I can space in such a way where if she presses TP, she's going to pop up in the same spot to the left of me every single time no matter what. If she wants to move that tp spawning point to a safer location further away from me, then she has to take a risk and move closer to me before pressing TP. If she raw taps TP without moving closer and pops up to my left, I'm ready for it with the easy punish because I know where she's going to be.

If I'm not ready for it, she can just press TP a second time and move to safety. I can also move closer to her while she's against the wall if she's trying to hold TP until I commit to an action. I can do things to make that action shorter, fake it out, or w/e. If she gets me while im in the middle of a high-commit action, she can TP to the left of me and then press TP again to get away-- poof she's safe. This all happens very quickly, so having TP on a 0s cd is what allows her to take advantage of those few moments when I stop being 100% ready to punish her for popping out of TP.

this is just

likeo n the most basic level

it obviously gets more complicated than this

when you throw in like oh does she have chain fireball

[twin pawn]

that aisha sucks

[stable nymph]

the worse a charactr is in 1 area the bettr they have 2 make it in others if they want that char to be playable

aka usually not great if something ppl dont have issues with gets nerfed bc eventually when pendulum swings the other way u end up with compensatory buffs in the wrong places that make the char less fun 2 play + fiet

[mental rose]

the ONLY way

to alleviate

this problem

if you put a 4s cd

on the tp

[twin pawn]

but also you catch her, sure cf is online at 70 mp, press a haunting spirit lets assume she gets 10-15 mp off of it give or take

[mental rose]

to uis beef up

her speciasl and charigng

[twin pawn]

she escape skills to free herself

[mental rose]

speicals and charging**

[twin pawn]

she generally, if its a good aisha, knows her hitboxes and knows if someone can read her tp

[mental rose]

if I catch her that's the end

[twin pawn]

the 4s tp punishes bad aisha players and forces them to play better

[mental rose]

of the interaction

[twin pawn]

LOOOOL

okay nvm u got it

[mental rose]

what do you mean

70mp cf

when she is at 20mp

[twin pawn]

when you say its the end what do you mean

[mental rose]

l ike

[twin pawn]

are you not hitting her

[mental rose]

that's the en do fthat specific interaction, I've caught her and I have her in combo. What comes after that everything else unrelated to TP

[twin pawn]

is she not pressing forces at all ever with how good her special actives are nowadays

[mental rose]

we're focusing on the role TP plays in her core movement game

[twin pawn]

like tp being 4s is manageable bc she doesnt need it to function outside of running away in dire moments

this is the character with dash Z's that cover decent ground, a super armor tp combo, and dash X's that cover decent ground

[mental rose]

i want to push back on that

[twin pawn]

have u seen any high end aisha player play before

[mental rose]

lol

[mental rose]

in this situation right here

[twin pawn]

and how they manage to use tp's cd to their advantage bc they dont require it

in that situation are u fighting a regular slums aisha or someone decent

[mental rose]

in this situation, the reason why she's 'trapped' against the wall is because her other core movement options to get off of the wall are dog assuming she can't acel or obten. This is where her charging mp gain can become a huge problem in combination with forces though, 100%. Because she can just say F it, press obten, charge 60mp and then skill her way out.

which brings me back to the charge nerf happening after the TP nerf.

If you put a 4s CD on TP, then she has to lean more heavily into her other strengths

[twin pawn]

why is that an issue when she has many... many super armor combos she can delay for a tp

[mental rose]

if she's delaying those super armor combos then she's not charging

[twin pawn]

like are we assuming this aisha is legitimately trapped and has no idea what the rest of her buttons do or what

a decent aisha isnt gonna be charging without adequate space between her and her opponent to begin with?

like in this case is all she has tp and charging?

like w light trait a 2nd tp is 15 mp

3rd would be 30

a force skill gives her that