#Consider making events to help mistreated players stage their VoS.

93 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

carmine sinew
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Sometimes players are treated unfairly and are denied the ability to stage their VoS beyond stage 2 even with proper equipment's, stats, and sometimes ERP for many reasons. As such I feel that if KoG was to do something like:

  • Frequent Events to help players under such issues to progress with staging with parties consisting of 3 GM's well equipped and can dps / buff (or both)
  • A special boost medal (1 day) that boosts VoS growth by 5x (from stage 2 to stage 4) it would mean running savage white ghosts 20x with GM's in each spam party (can also be a buff instead as well that lasts for specific days or on holidays as well).

Why do I think Game Masters should make parties for spamming stages? Well when they made event that gave ariel VoS's to many players that also included new players with lower than 300 ERP (some of them did not even have 150 erp either), even with proper equipments like full set SK, Master Road, rosso, skill ring, rof, agate, and dvc with +11 Ariel VoS with perfect mystics and sockets can result in not being accepted even when you play a dps class because you can only low dps due to lacking stages 3 and 4 and 300 erp.

That is not the end of that one either, sometimes well known players can be accepted over others, other players might get jealous that another player is better than them and try to black mark them for future parties in raid, etc. All of which I feel is abuse and should be corrected. With GM made parties that could help carry even new players to stage 4 (at least) because of these many factors that bridges the gap between players who are mistreated and those who are mistreating players.

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With this even paying and free players can be of the mistreating / mistreated categories as well depending on if they are well known or not.

carmine sinew
random fiber
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i said it before ill say it again

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if you're barely making the requirements to enter, you're not ready

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and considering one of the issues was people not knowing the mechanics, not just not having the stats, having gms play and carry won't make a difference when someone can just proc a skill ban

oblique briar
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Although I do think that the double count medal would be welcome if we had more events giving one of those (and when those do happen, it should last for 14 days at least, 7 days was too little), I don't like the idea of relying in GMs for runs
I just can't see that working very well in INT, especially because of region differences, ping differences and even timezone differences
We get double count medals, people are more willing to make spam parties, at least during the start of the event period
Also, Kayne, sometimes people don't get picked for spam parties even when they have the requirements and know how to play berthe

carmine sinew
random fiber
carmine sinew
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Also sometimes 7m+ cp TwP's get skipped in magical parties for KE and Immortals (who are physical classes) as well too so there is that.

random fiber
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im mostly referring to the event where people who just got their first vos from the event but barely have anything else to make them worth taking are likely trying to push into farming it because of the medal, but have no idea how any of that works

carmine sinew
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Yeah, it also did not help that the cube itself the held the medal also was set to expire at end of the event back then as well.

random fiber
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party formation for example

oblique briar
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TP has no group support, could also be a case of blacklisted player

random fiber
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cause if those magical parties are just supports who have general buffs, it's not really a magical party

random fiber
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so ill just work on other things to get stronger and instead of just kicking rocks and doing nothing

oblique briar
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but really, if we get more events that make it worthy creating more spam pts, more people who are stuck (I'm stuck in stage 2 because no haivan spam wants to take me I don't know why) will be able to farm those stages

carmine sinew
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Even worse when the pt's that look good on paper, but are doomed to fail as well.

random fiber
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more events is ok but wanting gms to carry with the expectation that they'll just wipe everything instantly is not even good

oblique briar
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I don't think the GMs are actually strong enough to carry people tbh

carmine sinew
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I think the devs are though.

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😄

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With their +20 SoA's

oblique briar
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some friends who have played with GMs in the past said that the GMs were carried by them in Vanimyr

random fiber
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devs could create a weapon to 1 shot stuff, it doesn't mean they should

carmine sinew
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true

random fiber
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gm plays a few years ago i remember

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i was ab le to scan raiden's gear and it wasn't bad

carmine sinew
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only when they allowed it yes.

random fiber
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but i was above his gear level

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and there's a good chance they'll never use broken gm related weapons

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so dont expect carries

carmine sinew
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for fairness nope.

random fiber
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just expect events that will either increase counts or give us medals for them

oblique briar
carmine sinew
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yep, or both x2 medals (events) and a 3x buff (together up to 5x count on holidays) on weapon growth, no need for title count on those events.

random fiber
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5x is too much

carmine sinew
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3x would be only for holidays, 2x for normal events, 5x would only happen when both are true though.

random fiber
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still wont happen

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no (real) game designer would ever think thats a good idea

carmine sinew
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having a boost of growth on holidays will increase spam pt's for berthe though.

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same for increase events for them.

random fiber
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giving a free hamburger everyday at mcdonalds would bring more people to the restaurant

carmine sinew
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(even if they happen 2x per week that last only for 1~2 days each)

random fiber
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it doesn't mean its a good idea

tight ermine
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ok, suggestion:
I realize that the stage leveling for Vos doesnt make room for Story mode at all. What if for Stage 3 ONLY, that an alternate method to making stage 3 is provided, similar to how we do weekly Enhancement where you either do 30 dungeons or win 10 Arena battles.

So in this case, VOS Stage 3 requirement could be:

_Clear Pruinium Raid 25 times (normal)
or Clear Pruinum Raid 250 times (story mode).-(the figure here is just an example, I don't know what the devs would consider as equivalent or reasonable number of times in Story Mode)

(this could really help with players actually engaging the mechanics and learning the stages in preparation for Stage 4 & 5 both of which should continue to Exclude Story Mode).

Thoughts?

sharp mirageBOT
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Salt Tracer#6837 has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

errant vigil
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bruh

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this is a failing on Kogs side one would think if you have 1.5 CP that you should be able to do the content in a reasonable time being 5-10 minutes with any comp with any character. however that's not the case why is this it's because KoG refuses to do anything on their side to fix the issue they've known for a while that BnW farming is finished as a whole. reason being is there is no reason to go back to do it once you finish. meaning that as a whole once the majority of the community is done with BnW farm all these newbies will have no one to offer them carries or farms. what does that mean it means that kog needs to fix an issue that they still havent fixed cause of negligence at this rate. i mean think about it the entire game is a easy fest till you hit Berthe raid why's that it's because the beginning of the game actually reflects the Combat power system it's only till you hit normal Rosso and of course berthe that the system goes out the window. Rosso on the other hand actually still has value to any player at any point in their journey be it end game or just hitting Rosso. however like i said Berthe and imprint stones which are completely useless are the issue and it's not like the community doesnt know that i mean heck it's what everyone has been saying since day one of berthe raid. so why is it that the Devs cannot. i do not agree with more events the events mean nothing if they dont nerf the content to fix the actual difficulty that the Devs themselves said it was actually doable. see how the CP system never says this CP with this ERP with this Party comp. to those ppl saying they just need to get better sure but also at the same time Berthe raid is make it break it and if you wanna stop losing ppl to the pointlessness that is Berthe raid leaving the game. then please stop blaming others for them not investing time into a game that they may or may not be on the verge of leaving. Fix the game then we can come back to these event talks is what im saying.

warped pier
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Maybe you can work more on the medal idea, because players shouldn't rely on GMs for stages. Maybe we can get NPCs in the party, instead of a GM... If players get rewarded for helping other players, the problem will be fixed... How did you plan to give that medal? From the Phoru thing? From EP shop? Or from quests? From an event?

grand hare
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it's like what salt tracer said
the issue is that berthe raid as it is, is the problem itself. if it wasn't as mechanically difficult then people wouldn't be so strict forming the perfect parties all of the time (and celestia and demersio wouldn't be required in 95% of runs). giving medals won't fix the problem of people not getting into parties - they're still not going to get into parties.
and people who can carry the farm parties have no incentive to do it unlike with rosso gaunts.

GMs won't need to carry if the playerbase alone can clear (and even asking something like this of GMs is a lot imo and very limited in the number of people that can benefit from it)

the raid itself needs to be adjusted and tbh just nerf the staging/title requirements, why lock it to time-limited medals?

carmine sinew
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Why? Because I can see the 10% ASD being over the top and part of min/maxing that should be exclusive to normal mode raid.

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So I think for stage 3 to make it:

  • Clear White-Ghost Castle 25 times (normal) or Clear White-Ghost Castle 200 times (story mode).

Stage4:

  • Clear Altar Of Invocation 75 times (normal) or Clear Altar Of Invocation 350 times (story mode).
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Story is fast to and easy to clear so this many runs to force them to learn the raid should be needed.

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(and possibly make it less easy for them aka buff story mode a little)

broken lotus
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if its super fast how are you going to actually learn mechs

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how are you going to learn, let's say, how to dodge touhou pattern in 15-6-3 if you kill it even before the boss gets to that pattern

carmine sinew
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that is why I suggest a normalization buff in story mode that scales to the strongest player.

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to make it harder so they can learn it.

tight ermine
# broken lotus how are you going to learn, let's say, how to dodge touhou pattern in 15-6-3 if ...

well, I don't think we are trying to make every single thing easy. I think that by getting that familiar with certain mechanics through Story mode prerequisite that it helps the player get familiar with the basics and when it comes to Normal mode, they will now have less to learn (make the learning curve a bit smoother and make their acceptance into Normal raids less likey to end in blacklisting).

What happenened at the last event was a serious crash course for many because they jumped straight into Normal mode and I guess because of their innability to navigate and respond appropriately, are now upset because they faced with being blacklisted.

The idea isnt a cure all, but a way to bridge the gap.

carmine sinew
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Not to mention they should have paused blacklisting people because of that event because then they got blacklisted unfairly.

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And it was not their fault, but KoG's.

broken lotus
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well i get what you're saying but it depends what mechanics we're talking about

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also

carmine sinew
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Let's say when new players got the free VoS they did not even know about the skill bans which causes pt wipe.

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and other basic things in the raids.

broken lotus
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i really don't think it's KoG's fault for them getting blacklisted. They should have known the mechs beforehand and the event was just a means for them to get the weapon early on without waiting months for the drop

carmine sinew
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Yes but it also came with growth cube that expired if not opened and 7 days timer on it when opened.

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Which compounded it more.

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Like there would be no way they would be able to get past stage 2 till 300+ erp and good equipments (which they also lacked).

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Enough for them to need to farm a few months for both the erp and the equipments, yet they did not have the time thanks to that event.

tight ermine
broken lotus
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yeah i agree

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if anything the cube shouldn't have expired

oblique briar
# carmine sinew Like there would be no way they would be able to get past stage 2 till 300+ erp ...

you don't actually need the 300+ ERP page
I don't even have 200 ERP and with the +9 stage 2 vos of the event still manage to hit 2m.
In fact, you can reach a good amount of CP for Berthe just by working on your set (reforging, building your weapon with the right mystics, having master road + rosso combos, investing on your collection)
The growth cube should not have a expiring time limit, and the medal's duration only being 7 days during an event that lasted a month was part of the real problem
People were desperate to rush the stages because the double count medal lasted too little

scenic charm
scenic charm
# carmine sinew to make it harder so they can learn it.

wait ... why not just u know ... do that in general ... that way the content retains some of its dificulty for older players while scaleing newer players who can enter up to a competent lvl that they arent dragging down the party outside of screwing up mechanics which everyone does at the beginning

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it would mainly just be for the big party things like big bosses and raids and it should carry over to all future ones too

carmine sinew
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agreed.

errant vigil
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because even with Stage 5 some ppl cannot deal enough damage to be perceived as being good enough to take

tight ermine
# errant vigil because even with Stage 5 some ppl cannot deal enough damage to be perceived as ...

good enough to take where???..at stage 5 VOS, where will you be going or wanting to go??

Look, one thing i can say though is that this generation of new players have to begin to derail and reject that "your not good enough" culture and that toxic 'blacklisting' that gives the game extremely bad press. It has to begin with the new players who see it and decide not to perpetuate or carry on the toxic culture.

Clearly it is more harm than good. Kuddos to the more mature players who take time to help those who struggle. I think from this perspective can appreciate where giving a reward for assisting others is a very good idea.

In this case, it may actually mean that the 'mentorship program' needs an overhaul, where you can be carrier guide and mentor for raids and have it credited with rewards.
what are you guys thought on this ??

errant vigil
# tight ermine good enough to take where???..at stage 5 VOS, where will you be going or wanting...

there will be no new players to not carry it on if the game continues on this way. im not joking when i say if they dont nerf berthe again here in the next upcoming months the newer player base is going to die out fast. it's already bad enough some ppl feel left out because of the 14 weeks you have to wait for the SoA. also sure the players could reject that notion of "not good enough" culture but just like everyone has after they finished their bnw grind you wont see them doing berthe ever again except for that weekly ED gain. but i do agree if there were some of actually worth it reward for getting ppl stages or titles for Raid's then i think the community wouldnt mind it but the key word is worth it they'd have to be worth there weight in gold for all the fighters and consumes specially in 15-6 where being one shot is the norm.

carmine sinew
# errant vigil making it story mode will help a bit but it doesnt give them any BnW counts whic...

bnw should be a normal mode thing, asking for counts for bnw while staging should not be a concern. Having staging for them in story mode should not mean they should get an easy dps title, heck I know of some who can practically carry entire berthe runs as twp with much worse equipment's than I have currently. So if anything by then they should at least know the mechanics to berthe 1st before even attempting the titles.

carmine sinew
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So that their mentor can help them through it all.

carmine sinew