Mod Development Discussion/Help

[hollow pewter]

ok, with that one in. first thing i typically do is change the name. it's not absolutely important, but does distinguish the mod's processes in the logs. Mod priority you also don't really need to change with this either.

for the part of modifying a scene, you'll first want to locate it. i'll start with the racing hud, which is labeled as Display-Prospector-Bald.tscn in the hud folder. all hud scenes will be in this folder, and start with the Display- prefix, however some may instance other scenes for some of their working parts. luckily the racing hud is pretty free of this. this is info we'll use later for the modification of it

[abstract palm]

so should I duplicate that file and rename the copy so I keep the original?

or just rename the original instance of the file

[hollow pewter]

you could do that, however it's easier to instance it and modify values there, as then you can make modifications elsewhere that reference it and not need to remake the same changes. to do this, create a new scene, and then click on the instance child scene button. it should bring up a file explorer like menu, where you go to and reference the racing hud scene

this is what it should come out to, and you can open it

once you've instanced it, in the scene box on the top left, scroll down until you get to a large group of nodes involving the labels. you'll want to find and click on the powerDrawReadout node, which should look like this

from here, you can modify the max warn and max err values on the inspector box on the right. i'll put 150 and 500 for both of these values respectively, but you can put whatever

before you save the scene, you'll want to create a place to store it. go back to the mod folder you created earlier, and make a new folder and name it hud. to make things a lot easier, it's good to match the file path that the original file is stored in with the ModMain.gd's folder treated as the root, you don't have to but it does reduce an extra step in the next part. once you've made this folder, you can save the scene. it'll bring up a prompt for where you want to save, where you'll want to navigate to the hud folder you just made (it sets you at the folder you sourced the instanced scene from), make sure the name is the same as the instanced scene (for this it defaults to Display.tscn), and save it there

(also i do appologize for how much text this is, there's a good few parts that could be broken down better, but i'm not exactly good at it, so you'll have to bear with me)

[abstract palm]

np

I saved it as Mod/hud/Display-Prospector-Bald.tcsn. is that correct?

where Mod is the name of my mod

[hollow pewter]

yup, that should be fine. i'll explain a little how to do it if you make changes to that structure (it's more so useful if you make several instances to the same file), but that should be good

[abstract palm]

what do you mean, make several instances to the same file?

[hollow pewter]

basically if you do the same thing multiple times. 99% of the time you won't need to, but one example i can think of is where a config file is used to disable certain additions or changes to the file without disabling everything, where multiple instances of the file are made, each with a separate change

[abstract palm]

ahh I see

[hollow pewter]

i think i've only ever done it once, but it's still nice to know how to

ok, once you've saved, it should appear as in the first screenshot. from here, you'll go back to the ModMain file. you'll want to make a replaceScene call in the _init() function to load the modified HUD. for this, you'll do it with a replaceScene("path/to/file"), where the path is relative to the ModMain. in our case, it's hud/Display-Prospector-bald.tscn.

if you do save the location to a different folder to how it's structured in the code, you'd add an extra argument, this time locating the file in reference to the root (or res://). the third screenshot has an example of one i used (i also just thought of another use for this, it can also be for organization where you have relevant code in specific folders)

(forgot to attach it lol)

[abstract palm]

all set

[hollow pewter]

with that, i think it's pretty much done. next thing to do is zip it up (you'll want to do it to the parent folder). the zip should have the structure of mod name.zip\mod name\ModMain.gd

any archive tool should work, just i used the built in windows one for demonstration as it's something everyone has

[abstract palm]

done

[hollow pewter]

should be all set now, i'm guessing you know how to run mods for dv?

[abstract palm]

I haven't tried any mods before

[hollow pewter]

ah ok, it's not too hard to do. mind if i ask which service you downloaded the game from (steam, GOG, etc)?

[abstract palm]

steam

it came up on my discovery queue one day and I bought it just off the name alone lol

[hollow pewter]

fair enough, plus it's a little easier then. first thing is to do is to create a mods folder in the executable directory. you'll paste the zip into this folder. once you've done that, open the game properties menu, then under launch options, you'll put --enable-mods. having this tag on does disable achievements, but you can circumvent it by disabling it as progress is still saved towards them, just having it enabled stops the actual granting of them

[abstract palm]

so if I were to finish progress towards an achievement, I could disable the mod and reload the game and it'd grant the achievement>

*?

[hollow pewter]

yeah

[abstract palm]

cool

[hollow pewter]

there's also a mod that turns on achievements with mods enabled too if you'd want to take a look

[abstract palm]

I saw that on the mod list, I will def check it out

[hollow pewter]

alright, i suppose you're set to go from here. hope this helps

if you have any further questions, both myself and Za'krin are always welcome to help

[abstract palm]

thanks a lot. I'm gonna play a couple hours and go bed, but tmrw I'm going to try to make a fork of the bald eagle HUD that adds sliderss for the alarm thresholds

[hollow pewter]

sweet

[abstract palm]

not sure what I did wrong

[abstract palm]

I tried installing another mod (MaximumSpeed) as well, can't seem to get any to work

[abstract palm]

I think maybe maximumspeed is deprecated, because I tried diving even though the slider max was still at 100 and my engine output was all dicked up. so I think maybe smth is missing in the alarm mod, as it's still displaying red as in the screenshots

[hollow pewter]

sorry for taking a break, had stuff to do, but it's weird. I wasn't able to test the mod when I did it earlier, but I'll give it a try now to see if it's faulty on my side too

huh, the HUD change seems to work fine on my end. probably something is missing here

[abstract palm]

let me know if you have time to help me out with getting this mod working some time this week. I'm in USA but I'm usually on during the day until fairly late at night

[hollow pewter]

if you're free now, i'd be down to help. i've just finished up a release of my own so im relatively available, and i'm usually available at this time anyway if not

when you are able to go over it, i suppose the first thing to check would be your zip file if you'd be ok sending it

[abstract palm]

sorry, didn't hear the notification

[hollow pewter]

lol no worries, it happens

[abstract palm]

I'm not 100% sure if it is the mod itself or that I'm not properly enabling mods

[hollow pewter]

i'll take a look

first thing that i notice is the replaceScene call uses apostraphes instead of quotes, replacing it with replaceScene("hud/Display-Prospector-Bald.tscn") should fix it

i'm giving it a test myself as well, just to make sure

ok, seems to be something else as well, i'll give it a further look

[abstract palm]

oh I generally use single quotes in my code, I didn't consider godot might not support them

the IDE colouration suggests it does

[hollow pewter]

yeah, it's expecting a string, which is dictated with quotes

[abstract palm]

the documentation says single quotes is fine

most higher level languages use both, makes it easier to have a string with ' or " in it without using an escape character

[hollow pewter]

hm, maybe it is then. i've never personally seen apostraphes used for them so just assumed it was quotes only

[abstract palm]

if you have a diff tool you should be able to see all the inconsistencies between our folders

[hollow pewter]

yeah, i've just done that. turns out it was a typo, but rather the extension it was trying to load was a .tcsn not .tscn. guess i glazed over it as it's pretty subtle

[abstract palm]

🤦‍♂️

[hollow pewter]

yeah it certainly happens, i've done it too many times myself

[abstract palm]

oh me too. I've probably made $50,000 hunting down typos like that over the course of my career

[hollow pewter]

well earned, they can be very deceptive

[abstract palm]

is there an easy way to set those scene values from a script?

😁 it works now, thanks so much

[hollow pewter]

certainly possible, you'd have to extend or replace the script to make it work. replacing it is probably easier, as it'd mean you wouldn't need to take into account other labels, but would clutter the script a bit more with the preexisting code for it. extending it would be cleaner, but you will need a check for the correct node as the script is used in other values.

right clicking on the node should provide you with the necessary shortcuts for setting up the scripts. i believe attaching a script to one that already has one replaces it with the new script

[abstract palm]

I see. I'm going to have to do some basic gdscript tutorials before I try anything fancy

thanks a ton for helping me override those alarms though, I was stuck using the TRNL hud so I wouldn't have to hear them

the races are really easy, has there been any talk about changing them a little bit? I think I saw smth on the roadmap about racing but there weren't any details

[hollow pewter]

yeah no worries

things on the roadmap are more so reminders for koder, he'll add extra notes if it's a more complex issue, although there have been a lot of discussions about improving racing recently

[abstract palm]

there's a lot of potential there, chasing beryllium is one of the best parts of the game

racing feels like it could be like that, but instead it just takes ~5seconds to scoop up the drone

[hollow pewter]

yeah, and it's very cheesable with it's quirks

[abstract palm]

it'd be interesting if you couldn't lock on to the drone

but that might make it too hard

[hollow pewter]

or a variation of those being slower paced manual only races, where it is pure skill

[abstract palm]

true

a checkpoint race would be cool too, with drones 1 or 2km apart, but idk if that'd work with the simulation distance and npc ai

where you have to pass within like 50m of each drone in sequence

[hollow pewter]

yeah, i have heard that suggestion come up a bit from others as well

[abstract palm]

or alternatively, a race where the drone flies away from you and whoever can remain within smth like 100m of the drone for the longest wins

idk. a lot of potential in the racing for sure though

[hollow pewter]

absolutely

[naive patio]

So, with the gimballed thrusters, are the gimbal angles a hard set function, or would they be tunable in Godot, for modding sake?

[deft bane]

I think someone long ago has messed about with them before

[hollow pewter]

by the looks of it, you have full control over the angle

[naive patio]

Schweet. Ok, so..... did someone do a write up for starting modding, at some point? Like, hev, you do all this on a laptop right? Surely my little old grandma machine could do it? NVM I FOUND IT IN THE PIN

[tender oasis]

im looking for some mod support. im looking to change the view range. zoomed full out you cant really see out that far and considering that the average human in space can see a human sized object at about 3km asking to see out only about half that doesnt seem like too much of an ask. i imagine theres a way to do this but im not sure how to even start.

i understand that in some games theres hard limits on things like this but seeing how the simulation range goes out a few KM being able to see something thats more than 500m~ below me at max zoom could be extremely useful. how could i get started on this?

[granite robin]

So to start, look into this guide to set up godot.
https://github.com/ZakrinYoran/Delta-V-Modding

Something that isn't noted there - use this version of GDRE for some reason this one takes significantly less time to load.

Also, how you want to do that? You can change max zoom out on per ship basis or edit script to add new recon drone/change max zoom out of standard recon drone (which already zooms out a bit more than the rest)

[tender oasis]

so the way that this could be approached is maybe instead of extending the direct visual input of the game out to that range maybe like the radar overlaid on the direct visual window, or like the one that is stock to the Antonoff-Titan just something that is simple and non performance heavy. would something like that be possible? i love this game but the fact that this kind of viewing is optimized for a square or circular display is kinda getting at me. however if this is out of the realm of possiblilities for little o me them maybe just extending the visual range.

like radar only past "X" distance

[granite robin]

Almost anything is possible, we mod game from engine. I'm sure you can launch doom from game if you mod it in. As for lidar on visual, game already has that in form of MA-337 autopilot or EIME HUD.

[tender oasis]

yeah thats kinda what i was getting at mentioning the ship. i wasnt sure if it as the ship that supplied it or the hud/autopilot. but what i mean is like instead of the circle radar directly around the ship have it out part the 500 meter mark going out a few hundred meters or so with the ability to lose direct focus on the ship at max zoom to either physically see that far or virtually with the radar. i understand that anything is possible with modding and that this game is pretty open in the terms of what can be done with mods but ive also never attempted to mod this game so....if i go into trying to do this on my on what am i looking at getting myself into? or is there maybe already something like this that has been made and shared to the public?

[tender oasis]

okay so starting out im supposed to decompile something using gdre_tools.exe however i cant locate this file in any of the provided folders marked for initial download. where is this supposed to be?

[hollow pewter]

these two should be everything you need. the zip is the best gdre release for the job, and I also provided the editor as a standalone executable

[tender oasis]

okay so i guess at this point since my last question has been answered by my own research into doing this(that answer being "ill be doing this for a few days if not weeks depending on how long it takes me to set this all up and decipher different programs for myself"). why is the modding stated as "supported" by the DEV themselves when in order to do any basic mods, even small things like texture alteration, it feels like need a degree in computer science to get any of this going? i mean youre on nexus mods if im not mistaken but its not like other games where its plug and play or even older slightly less user friendly drag and drop mod managers. the DEV stated that modding is supported but at this level it seems like it is supported in the same way any game supports modding. base line question: why is this so difficult? is it due to low popularity thus lower amount of crowd sourcing for genuine user-friendly mod-managers built by the fan base? this isnt a dig at you guys. im just curious as to what the road block is for an all-in-one mod manager. not to mention that an answer to this question will put an ease to the nerves of other start-up modders here.

[granite robin]

What you want is a lot more involved than things like texture alteration as it's literally just placing right file into appdata folder (templates for ship textures i.e skins in free dlc #workshop-archive pins ). Zak'rin and hev worked on mod managers, but frankly I don't think something like that is needed, for me folders do just fine, it's not that hard to switch a few zips around.

Also note that modding as installing mod, and modding as creating one is different level of work.

[hollow pewter]

currently the roadblock to a "proper" (assuming full handling of the mods is done by the menu) mod manager is how the game loads mods. once a mod is loaded by the game, the file where it is sourced is write protected until the game is closed, effectively meaning that all changes to mods installed have to be done once the game is closed, be it manually or via a separate application. there are a few other games where the same thing has to be done (Minecraft is the first one that comes to mind for this, as it has a very similar case).

I did have a look into doing just this for the mod menu mod, and without completely changing the way mods load and have every other mod loaded from a completely separate folder to the mod menu (like how ZKYLoader does, and is rather confusing to many), or writing a standalone application to handle it (which given this game is cross-platform, I am not really prepared to work with), it wasn't really worth the effort to look into

I suppose this only would affect the removal/updating of mods, files could always be added whenever with a drag and drop. if people would want that feature instead of just an "open mods folder" button, I suppose I could look into it

as for the plug and play part, I do feel like the way mods work is already pretty plug and play. once the zip is in the mods folder, there's no extra work needed to run it other than the enable mods flag

[tender oasis]

okay so ive made way into the godot engine. this is very unreal/unity like which im pretty familiar with. so instead of doing major UI and gameplay overhauls maybe i could start with somethin smaller like changing the geology menu to include per material price sliders/values. for instance right now there is a slider in place for the entire mechanism(so for haul drones its a single price for any given material). but id like to have a slider/value per material.

now that being said it could still get a bit complicated i get that. now creating UI elements are one thing but implementing that in such a way that it actually modifies the function of the subsystems...

[granite robin]

Well you should look into OMS, but not sure if sliders are there.
Also https://discord.com/channels/426287934870781952/1239854400810516511 can have something useful, as it modifies that window too.

[tender oasis]

OMS? search didnt bring anything up.

am i gonna find that here in the discord or is it external?

[granite robin]

@tender oasis Uhh OMS.tscn or .gd in game files, you should search using filesystem, on the bottom left by default

[tender oasis]

ah i see

what does OMS stand for? orbital mechanic system, object management system? (sorry if i seem needy its just the better i understand this, yada yada. all of this help is appreciated btw)

[granite robin]

[Onboard Maintenance System](#delta-v message)

[naive patio]

Question for modders: Has anyone made a list of the thrusters available in vanilla, and posted them with format

Menu name:: Game engine name

??

FYI this has nothing to do with my plan to put a different RCS per corner, or anything

[hollow pewter]

i've got something similar at the top of the system name text file i have on my useful items github, just organized a bit differently (categorized by equipment type, and having comments for any names not immediately obvious): https://github.com/rwqfsfasxc100/Delta-V-Useful-Files/blob/main/DV Equipment System Names.txt

[hollow pewter]

@tender lichen so first off, there's a few resources you'll want to have that will make your life a lot easier when doing this.

first off you'll want to get the Godot editor. this is the main tool where you'll do the modifying of your ship, which you can download from here

next, you'll want to get GDRE tools. this is used to decompile the game to a state where you're able to import it into the Godot editor and use it to reference vanilla code, which you can download from here. (the version used is 0.5.3, which is a few months old by now, but due to a bug with newer versions, using versions newer than this causes the import process to take up to several hours instead of the couple of minutes it does with this version)

also, you may want to take a look at Za'krin's guide to modding, which will help greatly with a few of the setup steps as well as some general useful info for modding

let me know when you've got those setup and have DV imported into the editor and I can help you with the fun part. if you have any questions in the meantime, lmk

[tender lichen]

It has Imported

[hollow pewter]

alright, next thing you'll want to do is create a folder in the root (res://) folder of the project. you can name it anything, but I do recommend capitalizing the first letter as it will appear at the top this way. once that's made, add a new folder underneath and name this one ships. it should look something like this:

next, you'll want to create a new scene. you can do this by either clicking the plus button at the top, or by right clicking on the ships folder and clicking "new scene" (for the latter it will ask you for a name, but for what we're doing, it isn't necessary)

[tender lichen]

done

[hollow pewter]

for the demonstration I'll be editing a vanilla ship, which is usually the easiest option as most of the work will be done already. to load a ship, you'll instance a scene (either from the button or ctrl + shift + a). this will open a file selector window, which you'll want to navigate to the ships folder. i'll use the K37 as an example, but any ship can work, although you may be best sticking to one of the vanilla 20 as they've got everything setup already. once you've opened the ship instance, you should see nodes on the left in the scene box

[tender lichen]

alright

[hollow pewter]

from here, you can modify basically anything. when selecting a node, the inspector panel on the right will display variables and properties of that node. the root node of the ship usually contains a lot of the stat parts of it, such as the name, mass and processed storage. even if you don't plan on changing many of these, changing the shipName value will allow it to be a unique ship at the very least

a lot of the fun does come from the child node parts, where you do have most of the freedom. if you want to remove one, it won't let you directly delete it from an instance, but you can toggle the visibility to effectively remove it. duplicating them isn't too hard either, as you can't directly duplicate with the toggle, but you can still copy and paste the node, although do note that you may need to move it into the same tree position as the original node

for this example, i'll be adding a second main torch to the ship and giving them some rotation, as well as changing a few of the other values. first thing to do is to copy and move the engine-main node to have a second one. at first it will be offset, but clicking on the new node and going to the transform section will let you move and rotate it. there are also tools at the top that let you do this with the cursor, although entering it in the transform box is usually a lot more accurate

the original torch has a y position of 164, so that y value will be changed to it, and I'll give it some offset to the right by 25 pixels as well. i'll also go to the original torch's node and move it to the left by 25 pixels as well, which should now have them both side-by-side

now to give them some rotation, I put a 30 degree rotation on both of them, which will give them less visual clutter and make it a bit more realistic for their positioning so close together. luckily the autopilot system is also able to take the angle into account, and will work fine with a setup like this

to finish up, i've gone back to the ship's root node and changed the ship's name and processed storage amount (you can tell a value is edited from the default with the reload icon next to it), and now it should be good to save. the save window will be in the res://ships folder, so you'll want to go up a folder and locate your mod's folder, and then it's ship folder. give the filename something unique, and you should be good to save

next part is to register the ship to the shipyard. you'll want to create a new script in your ships folder, you can name it anything, although considering it extends the Shipyard.gd script, for the sake of ease I would name it the same

when you open it, it will have a lot of placeholder text. you can replace it entirely with this text here:

func _ready():
    ships["<your shipname>"] = load("res://<mod folder>/ships/<ship filename>.tscn")
    configAlias["<your shipname>"] = "TRTL"

<your shipname> is the identifier for your ship, <mod folder> is the folder for your mod, and <ship filename> is the saved scene file for the ship. the top line with the extends basically adds onto the Shipyard.gd file, the func _ready() part tells the game to load this once the script has loaded completely, and for the lines within the function, the first line loads the ship file and adds it to the list of ships, and the second line will have the default loadouts of the K37s applied to your ship, although you can check the configAlias variable in the full shipyard file if you used another ship. once you've filled this out, you can save it

the last part is to register the mod. in the mod's folder, create a new script, and this time name it ModMain.gd. i would recommend going to Za'krin's guide and opening the example mod main that he has there (also you can go here for it ). I would recommend copying the code from that script and modifying it, as it will make a lot of the parts involved with it easier

once you've pasted the script into the file, there's a few things you can do. the MOD_PRIORITY and MOD_NAME constants are used for identification and load order of the mods. since you won't really have too many issues with this mod and others, you can leave the priority at zero, and mod name can be whatever

once you've done that, you can go to the _init() function and load the shipyard script. add a new line and add a call to the installScriptExtension function, which for this case will be installScriptExtension("ships/Shipyard.gd). this function loads relative to the ModMain.gd file, so you can leave it as that path

once this is done. you should be able to zip up the folder with any archive tool and it should be good to go

[wintry ridge]

FWIW all this sounds like it could be verbatim copied to the wiki and then linked.

[hollow pewter]

yeah, that's probably a good idea. much less cluttered way of doing it at least

[tender lichen]

I'm pretty sure I've done it correctly but the ship will not show up in the dealer.

[hollow pewter]

you may need to cycle the dealer a few times for it to show. if not, perhaps I could take a look at the zip file

[tender lichen]

I have cycled the dealer many times

[hollow pewter]

by the looks of it, you didn't save the Shipyard.gd file

it currently has the new file template

same goes with the ModMain.gd file

perhaps when I get home, I'll see about writing them up as examples

[hollow pewter]

alright, home now and taking a proper look. another thing to note is that your ship scene seems to reference a TEST1.tscn file, which isn't available for the base game unless provided in a mod. i'll fix it to instead reference the K37, and I'll also give it a unique name as otherwise it'll say it's an ordinary K37 for the texts, which I also forgot to cover properly so I will add those to it

[tender lichen]

Alright

[hollow pewter]

ok, this should work well enough as a demonstration. i've put in a good few comments where i can to help explain things, but it should work

[tender lichen]

Thank you

[hollow pewter]

trying to make a ui element that appears when in the rings and accidentally made it a part of the world environment instead smh

it gets worse lol

[hollow pewter]

actually, after giving it some thought, a few UI elements in the ring space could make for an interesting docking sequence for a more complex station. food for thought

[prisma geyser]

Looking to mess around with the geology UI and drones, anyone know where the control logic for that is?

[hollow pewter]

for the geologist menu, best place to look would be in the OMS scene, and anything not directly in there will branch out to instanced scenes under the geologist tab item, and for drones specifically, there's a few places depending on what you want to do; although for the drone units themselves, they're in the weapons folder

[prisma geyser]

Awesome, thank you

[prisma geyser]

I'm having a little trouble understanding what this bit of the updateSystems() function of SystemMineralList.gd does, I can't quite tell if this is just the OMS UI handler or if it also instantiates the UI boxes around identified minerals in the ring view. Anyone know their way around it?

[hollow pewter]

by the looks of it, i'd presume it's the geologist filter logic that checks each equipment item on the ship, then if it interfaces with the geologist, adds the respective labels and buttons based on how it's setup

ok, having gone through it in the debugger, it handles the geologist UI in OMS

[wintry ridge]

It's a reflection to query which of your systems should have things exposed in the OMS/geo. Lots of things in dV codebase works on reflections - you plug in a specific property or method, and is shows up where it should.

Boxes are set up in AutopilotOverlay.gd

[prisma geyser]

Thanks, that's super helpful

[prisma geyser]

Any chance you could tell me which of its parent nodes has the isValidMineralTarget method?

[wintry ridge]

Sorry, away from the main setup for about 3 days.

[prisma geyser]

No worries, I'll just do some digging

[dusty sedge]

is there a lightweight way to change a single attribute of a scene without overwriting the other ones using replaceScene for compatibility purposes

[hollow pewter]

you would want to do it with an instanced scene. it references the vanilla scene, and then only makes the modifications to it that you make without overriding the entire scene

this link symbol next to the add node button will do it for you (ctrl + shift + a also works), do this on an empty scene and it should work as if you were modifying the scene directly

[dusty sedge]

godot moment

[dusty sedge]

I can't for the life of me seem to get scene overrides to work at all

whether with instancing or runtime reflection, even packing the entire scene

godot just kind of ignores the take_over_path call for some unknown reason

every other mod I can find either does script extension or adds new scenes instead of replacing existing ones

so I can't even find a working example on how it's supposed to be done

[hollow pewter]

how are you going about the replacements of it, and also which scene are you trying to override?

[dusty sedge]

this is basically just a simplified replaceScene because that boilerplate is actually bugged and applies res:// twice

[hollow pewter]

replaceScene works on a relative path, so that might be why it applied res:// a second time

although from a glance, that does look like it should work fine

[dusty sedge]

yeah, which is why it's very weird that I get the original scene on the scene path I just replaced one line prior

[hollow pewter]

i'll give it a try myself to see if i can get something working, i presume the change you're making is just having the NDPT auto fire, correct?

[dusty sedge]

yes

it felt like a pretty meaningless feature in the first place

[hollow pewter]

try this, gave it a quick test and works on my end

[lethal cape]

So uh what files or info is there on generating the minerals inside of asteroids?

[hollow pewter]

iirc, it's a wave function that determines the mineral content based on the position of the rock and the seed. where this is found, i couldn't say right now

[dusty sedge]

so after comparing and realizing that my mod started to work suddenly

the uh

take_over_path method

does not reflect changes until the mod load _init completes

which is just, why

godot moment

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/708376958362320916/1051973623814041650/ezgif.com-gif-maker14.gif

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, i find that checks like that are usually left to _ready(), as afaik _init loads as soon as it possibly can

[dusty sedge]

oh _ready will never get called

not sure why but it just isn't

only _init will be called even when using the mod template

[hollow pewter]

It does, a good few mods do use it. It might be specific to what you're using to check if it runs tho

[dusty sedge]

I feel like that if I ever have to implement a godot game, I would have all the game logic run in raw C and inject them into godot using inter-thread signalling

[dusty sedge]

no like, not even debug logging gets fired in _ready

you can't even crash the game using a runtime error

so it never gets called

[hollow pewter]

That could be due to the fact that autoloads don't finish loading until after mods get loaded. I don't have access to my PC rn, so I can't exactly say if that's the case, but it was an issue I've come across when trying to call autoloads from the mod mains

[dusty sedge]

godot moment

[hollow pewter]

yeah, probably the fact that the modloader is an autoloaded script itself, so something to do with it not getting access to other autoloads until itself is finished

actually, taking a look at the script, debug logging can be called from _init, as the l() func from the helper script has it used in both _init and _ready, maybe it's specific autoloads that have to wait to be called

[raw folio]

so
is there anyway to know if AAT and ARL are working on my autopilot?

[hollow pewter]

ARL i'd assume see if you can have opposing thrusters firing, as for AAT i'd guess try and make your ship imbalanced with containers and see how well it handles compared to the stock NDCI

[raw folio]

but theres no debug options to test it

[hollow pewter]

you can always use the minding flight service to compare

[raw folio]

hmm ok

[dark pike]

AAT, go out with one cargo container, imbalanced. Turn off the main drive. It may take some training for the AP to pick up on it, but eventually you SHOULD see RCS initiating thrust in an imbalanced way, rather than firing balanced thrust, then changing thust and adding rotation to compensate.

I haven't experimented with ARL much, but go out without it, with very low thrust RCS, main drive off. Try setting an AP course that requires both strafing and turning at the same time. (Check that your rotation priority is off, first.) You SHOULD see opposing thrust as it tries to thrust and rotate at the same time - ONE of the rotation thrusters will be in opposition to the strafe.

Switch to an AP with ARL, and it should mitigate that to some degree.

The idea with ARL is that the thrust one thruster WANTS to output should subtract the thust that the opposite thruster wants to output. So if you have opposing thrusters that want to be at 30% and 100%, it SHOULD just run one at 70%, which would be the net output anyway.

[raw folio]

it seems FBW broke again

it works when theres no other mods

[hollow pewter]

what other mods were you trying it with btw?

[raw folio]

industries of enceladus revamp breaks it

to be more accurate
the flybywire option is in the list without it and isn't with it

[hollow pewter]

hm, that prob makes sense though, both do modify the autopilot code

[raw folio]

based on how autopilot mods are written there doesn't seem to be any compatibility for more than one autopilot mod

[hollow pewter]

i haven't seen much, but i would guess that extending the function instead of overriding it could be a potential fix?

[raw folio]

since every mod has its own ship-ctrl.gd file

[raw folio]

idk how to do that

tbh this doesn't seem worth it anymore

[hollow pewter]

if you put a period before the function (i.e. .autopilotControl(delta, fbw = false)), it's equivalent to running the same function from the script you're extending before you modify it. i haven't personally used it much, but it can be very handy

i'll upload IoE's ship-ctrl.gd file so you can see how it's used there

[raw folio]

nah its fine

[hollow pewter]

alr

[raw folio]

my brain is fried and this isn't worth the effort anymore so ill just add this to the repo and be done with it for now

[hollow pewter]

should note for anyone interested in decompiling the game from here on out, the bug that caused decompiled instances of the game to need to spend a large portion of time to import into godot got fixed in GDRE 0.9.0-rc1 & rc2

Apparently it was an undocumented bug that had the MD5 hashes use the previously computed MD5, not the hash of the decompile, which Godot had to re-find the file and hash it again, which was what caused the slowdown as several hundred files had to be re-imported

The update from the previously-preferred 0.5.3 should also bring about a large number of fixes to the quality of the decompilation, and you can now run the game from the editor without any required modifications to the code

[deft bane]

Let's go

[naive patio]

Here's a question for the smort wingdings: Most of the 'mod packs' are a single mod, that contains a number of pieces of equipment, functions, skins, etc, right?

How hard would it be to take these existing packs, and create a menu (say using hevs' Mod Menu framework, and hevlib), to toggle each equipment, in game?

[hollow pewter]

Certainly can be done, derelict delights and I believe also ZKY have toggles in their configs that allow equipment to be turned on and off, you'd just need to create multiple scenes to allow each different one to be independent

[granite robin]

So now how to run game from editor with mod loader enabled?

[hollow pewter]

lemmie get my modloader modification rq

there's a variable at the top of the file where you add the res:// paths to modmains. i didn't comment out all of the ones i had put in there, but it's not too much work to change

forgot to turn off the filename randomizer, this should be it with all mods commented out

[granite robin]

Thanks, probably something worth noting on wiki now.

[hollow pewter]

good point actually, i'll write something for it rq

[hollow pewter]

ok, luckily there wasn't too much that needed to explain, and i'm going to make the assumption that anyone looking to use the editor to make mods will likely already understand what is needed to have it setup. https://delta-v.kodera.pl/index.php/Using_the_Godot_Editor

[granite robin]

Well I guess I'm doing something completely wrong.

[hollow pewter]

looks like they're not marked as a placeholder in the WeaponSlot.tscn file

giving them a try right now, and man they look fun already

[granite robin]

Thanks that was it, was about to report spcs in wrong slots but then I remembered that I got IoE ghost slots in this save.

[hollow pewter]

something else i should note, the stormScene variable isn't set for them, which causes a crash whenever you shoot at something

ok at least you can just copy-paste it from the gungirs

[granite robin]

Ah no that fixed, guess it was removed when I duplicated folder to back it up.

[hollow pewter]

alright

tried to fight BBW with them because i figured it would be a good testing target, and i found a pretty bizarre visual bug:

i don't think it's caused by any mod i've got installed, but it's pretty funny. i'll try to get it to happen in a vanilla context and report as a bug

one thing that's likely a bug though is i think the resell value is off

[granite robin]

Ah yeah, default script values.

[granite robin]

Some fancy effects, probably need to change how sparks are scaled on second sprite but I'm happy with result

[valid cypress]

Is there a meaningful difference between the left and right versions of various side mounting equipment? e.g., EXMONO_[R,L] for the THI Cargo Drones or PDWMG_[R,L]?

[hollow pewter]

not really, it's just a left/right mirror

[steel ice]

'ello

It's hard to tell exactly what's going wrong as the logs don't seem to point to anything specific going wrong

I'm currently tryint to remove mods that are said to not work with the manifest

[hollow pewter]

i don't recall any mods that have those sorts of issues, which would they be?

and i guess if you're ok with it, perhaps i could take a look at the logs as well in case anything stands out to me?

[steel ice]

Yeah sure, booting up the game again

I've been able to safely skip the intro before so I don't think that'd be causing any issues

Things seem to be working again after deleting the cash files

As after taking back, and moving some mods around, seems like it was based off of something being outdated, but it didn't seem to be any of the mods

At the end Hevlib kept saying stuff about there being things already there

[hollow pewter]

yeah that's basically a confirmation that a folder it's looking for exists and doesn't need to be made

also, does appear that HevLib is outdated however

[steel ice]

I specifically looked up and got the most updated version of hevlib

As it said it needed an update

[hollow pewter]

weird, it says you're running 1.4.0 according to the logs you provided

[steel ice]

I swear I downloaded 1.5.x

Downloaded newest version from github

Things seem to be working again, added back a bunch of mods

[hollow pewter]

that might've been it, as i didn't see any equipment from IoE being added in the logs, then i noticed the version of hevlib

[steel ice]

Odd.

I blame not being used to navigating through github if we were to pinpoint anything

Can be a headache to specifically figure out the right version and some mods seem to require being taken apart

My tips for this is that:
If a mod has zips or further things in it, take it out. Most zips/folders should directly lead to a set of files akin to that you'd see in the game or other mods
If it's a ship mod, make sure it's either grouped up into one one, but don't have a mod that has zips inside that all have their own individual copies of such items.

So, basically, just make sure mods have some sort of layering to them
The game, at the moment, cannot read mods that are actually just packs of smaller mods, and most mods have components like a "ship" or "enceladus" file.

Those were the biggest source of my headache personally, the version of Hevlib being older just, confuses me

and sometimes exactly how a mod author wants their mods to be installed can be confusing
K-T industrial has a bunch of individual mods that you can install so you can just use a specific part if you don't like another one, which is nice for those who want it, however, none of this was explained in a text file

The neat thing is, is that I could unzip the mods and put all the code together, and it'd probably work as one mod, but I don't wanna fuck around to that point

[hollow pewter]

yeah, bootleg industries and k-tech mods are pretty unintuitive to download, especially like you say with no documentation on it for K-tech. I believe Kadaire is still active, so i guess if you raise concerns in the K-tech thread they could add something on it.

[steel ice]

I'd be fine writing a little text document myself, or drawing out some sort of installation map guide if it's really needed

[hollow pewter]

i'm also pretty confused on HevLib being an old version, but by the looks of it you downloaded it from nexus, which i find to be pretty unreliable of a service so maybe Nexus L?

[steel ice]

Yeah I was trying to look for it and IoE

Nexus kept showing up and I wanted to find the github vers

and looking up for IoE kept showing the old, non-compat version

Guess this may as well have been the equivalent of that one salvage encounter where everything spiraled out of control

[hollow pewter]

sadly the wiki mod list isn't always up at the top of the lists, as i do try to keep that one more up to date.

[steel ice]

Eh I've been bookmarking the locations to download them

I guess the more people that intergrate it with mod menu, maybe mod menu could be made to act as a mod browser and downloader if possible

I wouldn't mind an external mod loader too if it needs to be something like that

I've used a similar mod loader (albiet it doesn't have the online search function) for a game like FTL
Where it would just patch the installation

I at least feel like something like that would be the most desirable way to download and interact with the modding system myself

And there clearly is a modloader already built into the game technically, so maybe it could just be spiced up and added as a free DLC akin to Tales from the Rings

[hollow pewter]

yeah, i do have something like a repo search planned at some point (using github tags to make them searchable), but i want to remake the mod first as it's kinda a mess right now. akin to it, steam workshop support has been planned for ages now, so there's always that way that it can lead as well

[steel ice]

Plus, maybe eventually someone would come around and make a ship development program that makes it a lot easier to make a ship, akin to the shipbuilder program in FTL
But seeing the popularity of the game I think it may be a while before we get something like that

[steel ice]

Ah yeah, I think I would gladly wait for something like that

However the nerd in me still just loves the idea of finding mods and doing shit the old fashioned way

Only recently did I install Prism for Minecraft, I always installed shit like Forge, and downloaded everything manually

I still very much love making "mod soup" sometimes

But, yea
End point.
Main issue with modding is the accessibility component, something I can ignore as with games like these I always love the opportunity to customize them

[hollow pewter]

yeah that's fair. it's sorta an issue with the updater for mod menu, i have no real way of knowing exactly that a download is the correct one without downloading it and opening each one, which takes a lot of time, so there's a decent bit of guesswork to avoid the pain of waiting an age to get the update

[hollow pewter]

yup, something like that is absolutely possible (the equipment driver that i've recently done for HevLib is perfect proof that something like it can work). the main issue i see is that you'd need to make a lot of models for ship parts for the maker, other than that it's a matter of programatically putting parts together

[steel ice]

I managed to get the new mods and for them to load (I think)

[steel ice]

Well I think that just means we'd need an artist
Don't know how much my friend Wolframite can replicate the style of this game, so I may need to just commission someone still

[hollow pewter]

true. another possibility could be to splice current ship hull sprites to form a builder (it's a trick some ship variants do use in the vanilla game too, so it can work)

[steel ice]

I was thinking about a similar refitted ship like a Starbus/Calindo, kinda like the Eagle
Except it's a drone carrier kind of thing

Maybe you could find 'em out in the wild first, like maybe those hunks are how the rogue AI manages to refuel somehow

But then I was thinking that Nakumera may be a better fit for a military drone carrier seeing how they already have those drones that scan your ship for AI

[hollow pewter]

actually, on the subject of that, there are the phage stations (more specifically the ones without moonlets) that could probably be used pretty well as a hull design

and i don't think i've seen anyone making a mod using them yet either

[steel ice]

Hmmm, yea, good point, absolutely possible

[steel ice]

Just had this

God awful headache trying to debug nonsense

[jade roost]

If i have a modded save, but never used any mod equipment in it will going vanilla do anything to it? What if I have a lot of modded ships and equipment in another save? Will it damage that or delete any progress i made in getting modded equipment?

[hollow pewter]

as long as the active ship is a vanilla vessel, you'll be fine. modded ships just won't show, and any modded equipment also just won't show. you can replace empty slots just fine, just you won't get any cash for them if you didn't switch to a vanilla alternative beforehand

i think the only equipment that doesn't abide by the dissapearing without a trace are numerical equipment (basically consumable storages, the turbine and ultracap)

[jade roost]

Ok. Last question, is there a safe file path to store mods in when not playing with them? Or will I need to uninstall and reinstall later.

[hollow pewter]

just any folder that isn't directly in the mods folder. mods only load from that folder, so having another folder within it and putting the zips there disables them

[jade roost]

Ok, thanks

[steel ice]

I recommend documents directory in Windows for storing mods or other games

[steel ice]

Ended up making that new guide, I'd like any feedback, and to know if the "look for certain files" take is more reliable than the previous guide stated.

(also just noticed an error, someone could've noticed the "as long as there aren't multiple files like below" and fixed it to "as long as there aren't multiple directories across the same ZIP"

and removed the "like below" as it shows what examples of what you should/could see.

and not what's wrong

Still very much a WIP

[hollow pewter]

i think the best way to make it more obvious what you're looking for is to tell them to look for the ModMain.gd file, as that's what defines a mod's file structure, and might also be a good idea to show the full folder structure of the zip as well as it's not obvious how many folder deep it needs to be

[steel ice]

Hmmm

Yeah I can draw something out to show it better

[hollow pewter]

bootleg industries's installation guide does provide what i see as a pretty verbose description of it; "Ensure the structure is as follows: ModNameFolder.zip > ModNameFolder > contents of mod (Ex: TurnNBurn.zip > TurnNBurn > ModMain.gd, README.md, Settings.gd, ships)"

also, it might be a good idea to provide info on where to find downloads for mods, as the most consistently reported issue i've had on my mods was related to downloading the source code of the mod rather than a release

[steel ice]

Is this a good visual guide lol

[steel ice]

I'll take a screenshot of where, one sec

[hollow pewter]

i think the main thing is to ensure that the mod main is stored in the right folder, there's right or wrong place for them, just it might be a good idea to explain that mods commonly follow the Mod.zip > ModName > ModMain.gd format, you can have multiple modmain files stored within a mod

[steel ice]

Went with a classic attention grabber

[hollow pewter]

perfect lol

[steel ice]

I'll see about drawing again one sec

[hollow pewter]

second note that i forgot to add when trying to put thoughts to words, embedded zips just do not work at all

but yeah, that should be it

[hollow pewter]

yeah, i'd say that's pretty close. only thing i'd say is that you don't need the pack folder for it

actually, lemmie bring up the P fork of IoE to show you how that works

[steel ice]

"pack folder" as in the pack of mods

Not the .pack file or whatever it is

[hollow pewter]

yeah

[steel ice]

Yeah i'm gonna need an explanation this is starting to make conflicts in my head

[hollow pewter]

this is the root folder for the p-fork, which basically results to something like this:

Mod.zip
├─HevLib
│ └─ModMain.gd
└─IndustriesOfEnceladusRevamp
  └─ModMain.gd

[steel ice]

I think the issue I'm struggling with is necessarily telling the difference between a "root" folder & a "pack" of mods you just download

Like does this work without needing to extract stuff, and why do other mods/folders cause crashes?

[hollow pewter]

it's mostly to do with the fact that the way mods load data is through a path-relative instance. there's quite a big explanation to it to properly explain why, i think the best way it needs to be explained is that every mod main needs to be one folder separated from the zip file's root for most mods to work.

[steel ice]

So

If we're talking about like, levels

For modmains to work

They'd need to be parallel to each other, in separate folders

'cause if that is the case I think its a bit much for someone who's getting into modding and I got close enough

I wanna prioritize ease of access over "true" understanding

[hollow pewter]

yeah, that's pretty much the case. almost no one puts multiple mods into one zip however, so you're probably best explaining it in the sense of one mod per zip, as like you say it'll be easier to understand for someone coming into it

i think this case is pretty specific to bootleg industries however, as that's about the only case where anyone would need to do it

[steel ice]

I've had similar stuff with things like ZKY and the ships they add

Along with some other mods like a mod that had all the ships put into individual mods

and the way I'm trying to explain also would help with those

I'm trying to consider everyone/newer players

and the people that want to possibly try newer things

[hollow pewter]

i suppose that's fair, i kinda have forgotten about those mods needing it too

[steel ice]

Version 2

[hollow pewter]

looks good to me

[steel ice]

Yeah I'll probably just need to reformat it for steam then

You can lead peeps to it now if you wanna, how much of an improvement do you think it is over the previous guide?

[hollow pewter]

i'd say it's simpler to understand and a lot quicker to the point, although there is a bit lost in verbosity. it's probably the better one to point people to, and should work for most people

[steel ice]

Cheers.

[steel ice]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3483962034

It's been posted to Steam too

[steel ice]

Updated some of the graphics, thank @granite robin for the cleanup.

Steam Guide updated

[subtle barn]

hi, i am using IOE, I am having an issue where I can hit "install" on the mod thrusters/engine, but it seems not to actually do it. the new thrusters are listed as "installed" but so are the old ones, and if I look into "repairs", the old ones are still listed

any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

latest hevlib is installed, no other mods

[hollow pewter]

I haven't personally come into any issues like this, so the first thing I would say to do is to give the game a restart.

If that doesn't work, package the save folder like you would when reporting a bug for the vanilla game so I can take a look and see if anything is going wrong through that.

[subtle barn]

oh, thanks thats neat

thats the folder, I have reinstalled the entire game to be sure

looks like this ingame, mod equipment gets installed, but is not actually there

vanilla equip remains in place and is not being traded in

[hollow pewter]

ok, i see what you mean. seems to happen to just the numerical equipment though. I'll give it a look

what's weird is that i'm not getting any errors when i do it, which is just bizarre

[subtle barn]

tbh i am pretty happy that its not intended, I was trying to figure out if this is some kind of feature for about 2 hours 😄

[hollow pewter]

hm, with some testing seems like the same issue happens with equipment that installs on multiple slots (basically thusters). i think the best case for this right now is to convert to the traditional means of adding equipment for those specific slots until i can find a workaround

[steel ice]

This is a similar issue to what I had with the newest version, I sent you the save data.

At least we know now it's replicatable

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, i believe it's the same issue, just back then I didn't have any specifics to what caused it

[hollow pewter]

@subtle barn @steel ice see if this works for you: #1324503298295988327 message

[snow cedar]

I had the same issue. Found that downgrading to version 1.5.6 of HevLib and 2.2.3 of IoE Revamp fixed it, along with issues with other mods I was having.

Managed to get all 25 of these working together, though 🙂

The logs are accurate for the most recent ones, though I think I was changing mods around for a few of them.

[hollow pewter]

by the looks of it, ZKYLoader isn't being used, so you may as well get rid of that as a start

also, i don't know if it's even 100% usable in it's current state, although don't quote me as i haven't been really onboard with it's development

[hollow pewter]

As far as I can tell, the logs provided were not from a game using the latest versions of IoE or HevLib, which I would need those loaded at the last game launch to run to be able to consider for a valid bug report

[snow cedar]

Ah, I saw "ZKY Settings" in the menu at one point, and I figured it was the loader. Might it be the other ZKY mod?

As for the crash, I'll load up the up-to-date mods, where some upgrades don't replace each other

This is with 1.5.7 HevLib and 2.3.3 IoE

[subtle barn]

fantastic, that looks good

thanks man

is the supportlink out of the readme still valid?

will shoot some coffees at you 😄

[hollow pewter]

i believe it's valid, but it's not my link, rather it's for @heavy widget who made the original IoE

maybe i should get one setup, but perhaps when i have time for it

[hollow pewter]

everything seems fine on the side of the logs, would you mind perhaps sending a screenshot of what the issue appears to be game-side at all?

[snow cedar]

This set is from a run where only the two mods are installed. I go to the Cargo Bay section and buy a few different MPUs, with the Rusatom-Antonoff MPU Mk2 being the one that gets installed alongside the other. I then went to the Head-Up Display section where I bought the MA-337-MAX Autopilot. Crucially, the HUD offered a huge refund to purchase it, 607500 to be precise, which is the exact cost of the Mk2 MPU.

I'll get one for ya right away

It's like the Mk2 MPU gets treated as a HUD for the purposes of purchasing equipment

[hollow pewter]

hm, seems to be a similar case where it's not actually being purchased

[snow cedar]

Oh, my bad, Autopilot instead of HUD in the above messages

[hollow pewter]

that's fine, general gist was passed across (i didn't notice it was the wrong thing either)

[snow cedar]

Lol perfect. Oh, the same thing happens where the MPI City-class MPDG can only be replaced with the OPS-10 Capacitor Bank and the OPG-14 StatPlasma. It's like the added systems are being treated as a different category, like "MPDG 1" is the base game, and "MPDG 2" is the added ones. In terms of the MPUs and Autopilots, it seems like the modded MPU is a part of the Autopilot category.

There's the MPDGs

[hollow pewter]

i'm trying to think what could have caused it, but i'm pulling some blanks here. only thing i can really say might be was the change in load order I had to do to make it work with other mods

[snow cedar]

There's the lines from 28-32 in the ModMain that reference "Upgrades.tscn". I have almost no experience with programming, and no experience with Godot, so take my note with a pile of salt.

Oh, 1.5.6 is on the left, 1.5.7 is on the right

https://www.diffchecker.com/5g2A7e3X/ if it helps

[hollow pewter]

i'm aware of that change, the same code still exists just elsewhere. turns out it's just my memory is at fault, as it never worked in the first place, just it might've been something else i was checking.

i might just do the same for the rest of the non-hardpoint vanilla slots as i did with the change i made earlier

luckily the one thing that does seem to be working consistently are hardpoints and modded slots, which were the entire point of the change to HevLib in the first place, so it's not that bad

[snow cedar]

Hey, alright!

[hollow pewter]

actually, for some weird reason, torches work? they have the same basis to not work that RCS did but they just do?

only thing i can think is different is that a modded slot takes the same data from the torch slot, which is weird.

food for thought if i want to come back to it perhaps?

[snow cedar]

Okay yeah, the Rusatom-Antonoff MPU Mk2 and the MA-337-MAX Autopilot count as the same category (or tag?). Buying one of them refunds the other.

In EquipmentManager.gd, it looks like there's a part in the new one that has the line
"var slot_name = slot.name" (at line 411)
but then later has
"validated_equipment.get(equip)
if slot_name in data[1]:" (at line 410)

Could that be the issue?

https://www.diffchecker.com/gXX0Ktem/

I don't mind if you work on this, since I've already got my setup working 🙂 I find it interesting that your setup works fine, though.

[hollow pewter]

not really, all that change does is make a very minescule difference in loading time when it comes to fetching the node's name, and lets me more easily see what slot is being added to in the debugger

the issue where one purchase sells the other makes me think that for whatever reason, the slots are tied in a way that it shouldn't

i haven't found anything that really links to why selling doesn't work properly, but i have found another issue elsewhere that's a lot more critical that can't be fixed with just a different way of adding it

ok, i've got that issue fixed and a release made.... and it's half-past midnight so i'm off to sleep

[snow cedar]

Awesome work, well done! Thank you :)

[snow cedar]

So the new version didn't fix it, but I did check with different versions of HevLib and IoE.

HevLib 1.5.6 and IoE 2.2.3 works
HevLib 1.5.6 and IoE 2.3.3 doesn't
HevLib 1.5.6 and IoE 2.3.0 doesn't
HevLib 1.5.9 and IoE 2.2.3 works
HevLib 1.5.9 and IoE 2.3.3 doesn't
HevLib 1.5.9 and IoE 2.3.0 doesn't

It looks like the issue is in IoE, and it started with the 2.3.0 version. HevLib appears to be fine, so my apologies for focusing on that.

[hollow pewter]

the reasoning that pre-2.3.0 versions work is that they don't use HevLib at all. what i find weird is that it works fine entirely on my end, albeit i don't test with the other mods installed so i can't directly see how they interact

i'll see about using the ones you provided to see if anything stands out on my end

[snow cedar]

Oh, I tried the last set without any other mods, if that helps. Idk if anything about the rest of my install is good, and I also don't know if that could impact anything.

[hollow pewter]

i'm guessing, same issue where equipment doesn't switch properly?

[granite robin]

Could be linked could be something on my end.

Getting error: Invalid set index 'slots' (on base: 'MarginContainer (SystemShipUpgradeUI.gd)') with value of type 'Array'.
Even tried with just example from docs (power point) still throws this one.

Latest version

[hollow pewter]

i don't think so, that specific issue was fixed a few versions back, and only happens if another mod modifies one of the equipment slot components before the equipment driver module does, which would mean loading with infinite priority and having a higher alphabetical priority

[snow cedar]

Yep. Happens with:
RCS - ND-PNTRm
RCS - ERS-BlasTR 7200
RCS - RMS Pin-C50.

The modded RCS gets replaced if I purchase the cheap 1x fuel rod, which in turn doesn't replace the other fuel rod selection.

The 1x fuel rod gets replaced if I purchase the Light Ultracapacitor.

The Ultracapacitor gets replaced with the Thermocouple Array.

Doesn't look like anything replaces the Thermocouple Array.

All these are replaced if you select a part on the next category down.

[hollow pewter]

actually, i think i know this specific issue. a version or two ago i split HevLib between several mod mains, could probably be that you're not loading all of them

[hollow pewter]

i see. i'll give it a look. that specifically shouldn't be happening though as it's all using the traditional method of adding equipment, but i'll see what i can do

[snow cedar]

Oh, and the Projectile Clip is replaced by the 1x fuel rod

[hollow pewter]

btw, just so i can properly replicate, which ship are you using?

[snow cedar]

ETH-1905 "Naive Puppy"
K37 TNTRL

[hollow pewter]

hm, it just works on my end. (it is using the system names as it's not loading translations, but the naming is straightforward enough for what they are)

[granite robin]

Oooh so where are they, or can you just share your mod loader?

[hollow pewter]

"res://HevLib/ModMain.gd",
"res://HevLib/scenes/keymapping/ModMain.gd",
"res://HevLib/scenes/equipment/ModMain.gd",
"res://HevLib/scenes/weaponslot/ModMain.gd",
"res://HevLib/webtranslate/ModMain.gd",```

[snow cedar]

Hmm, interesting. I can try deleting everything and reinstalling? The only mod I'd use apart from the two would be SaveEdit so I can get money to test with.

I know of the roaming folder with logs and saves, along with some mod settings. I also know of the game folder itself. Any others I should look out for?

*2 roaming folders

[hollow pewter]

not really, those two are about the only ones used. i'm going to do some out-of-editor testing to see if anything different happens

hm, not even triggering when using the base game

something interesting when using the verbose logging when running from raw executable as it does state when anything is loaded, and apparently this specific file is loaded over 3k times when caching IoE. no wonder it takes 10+ secs

[snow cedar]

After removing everything and reinstalling (using HevLib 1.5.9 and IoE 2.3.3), the Kinetic Ammunition, RCS, Reactor Core, Ultracapacitor, and Powerplant appear to work as they should, but the modded MPUs are still replaced by the modded Autopilot.

Geez, 3000? It's awesome what computers do when we tell them XD

[hollow pewter]

you know what, do you mind sharing the logs from that at all, as i think they might be verbose enough to tell me what's going on internally

[hollow pewter]

i've put a notice for this at the top of the readme so they can be more readily used

[snow cedar]

There ya go

[hollow pewter]

weird, it's still getting data from the cache even when i shouldn't. that;s likely the issue

[snow cedar]

Oh, I noticed that the engine_log mentions something about ModMenu. I'll install that and try again.

[hollow pewter]

don't need to, that's an issue that's already been fixed. it's code that was directly ported from mod menu that i just forgot to change the naming of. reason it took me 2 months to notice is that i'm not aware of anyone using that specific module

[snow cedar]

Lol gotcha

With it installed, the engine log has a whole bunch of "ERROR: Condition "!is_inside_tree()" is true." No idea if that could be helpful, but I figure it's better to mention than to not. Now I gotta stop procrastinating and get to work on school stuff lol

[hollow pewter]

most of those are from IoE from stuff well before i started work on it, and nothing i was able to trace. It doesn't break anything, so i didn't really consider working on them

[steel ice]

Understood, I'll be seeing if it works

[heavy widget]

oh you should! you're doing good work haha

i won't apologise for not being in-gear with modding as of late but thanks for keepin the flame lit, as it were

ive kinda come to accept that something is going to light a flame under my arse eventually, as it did when i was making IoE, but right now i'm in a lull. i go through cycles of high and low

[hollow pewter]

I feel u with that, i've got a backlog of stuff to do myself which i need to find time for

[snow cedar]

Always be proud of what you've done already. This modding business is all volunteer work, and it brings joy to people. You both have made my enjoyment of this game even greater, so thank you :)

[rain igloo]

I feel you, sometimes I do a day of work in a week and sometimes I do weeks of work in a day or two

[zealous swallow]

@hollow pewter I'm using more minerals atm and hevlib

I have more I had in but I copied them out to try and figure out why I'm crashing

Its about 45 min in I see frames drop the deck is rather hot I'm trying turning down some of the particle effects

[hollow pewter]

i see, might be a memory leak or something, but assuming you're getting the more minerals version from the github, that might be the issue. there was a patched version made not too long ago that you may see better performance with (see #1239854400810516511 message)

also, you likely won't need HevLib as you're not currently using any mods that need it

and as for the crashing, did you find out which mod caused it specifically?

[zealous swallow]

I have one mod that needed it I narrowed it down to those two the crashing happening after a while being a memory leak makes a lot of sense I'll have to try that newer version

The more minerals is my favorite I've gotten to play with I really like the changes

[hollow pewter]

I suppose if you can replicate the crash, best making a report for it in it's respective thread with a zipped up copy of the save folder so it can be fixed

[zealous swallow]

No and I havnt looked at logs yet I have been able to replicate the crash fairly successfully it always seems to happen just as I'm ready to head home lol it's been a little irritating

I just try to assume it's a me issue first

[hollow pewter]

I see

[zealous swallow]

Let me get to the logs maybe tomorrow to see if I can find any evidence of a mod being the specific issue. I run arch on my desktop I can usually replicate the environment there and get the same results

I'm to lazy atm I am just gonna munch on rocks and cry when it crashes lol

[hollow pewter]

alright, no rush with it. luckily, in most crash cases have a signature of what went wrong when it happened

[subtle barn]

regarding the equipment-issues that were there, it appears its all fixed now

at least i have not noticed anything

thanks for the prompt support 🙂

[steel ice]

I was dealing with it before, so I appreciate the fix as well

[zealous swallow]

might be an issue with the mod, id have to try without it to confirm, but using the latest more mineral on my desktop (1700x/3090/32gigs) I get the same crash about 45 min ish into the game, ram cpu and gpu usage were low

im gonna try to check the logs later today, im kind of multitasking

it is the only mod im running atm

could still be something with my envrioment and running on arch or something

[hollow pewter]

could be, i haven't been doing much in the way of long dives in a while, but i might be able to give it a look later

[hollow pewter]

ok, i've been able to replicate the issue, and it seems to be related to a ship spawning in as it's caused by code that deals with making sure empty processed cargo holds are empty. i've got a fix in place, but i'm going to test it a bit longer to make sure it works

[zealous swallow]

jwhat did you do?

I lost 400k and a 50 min run :/

[hollow pewter]

i added an if statement that makes sure that the ship has anything registered in the processed storage hold. i'd assume that the reason it hasn't been seen too much is that it's uncommon for it to happen. the further testing i did took 2 hours and didn't even touch the code, so i'm just going to assume it works and make a patch for it

[zealous swallow]

want me to test it? lol

im working on quality testings and listing some edge routers from a liquidation, im just kinda letting it drift mine

[hollow pewter]

I mean, go ahead. I've put the zip in the more minerals thread and on paper it should circumvent the issue that causes the crash already, just I wasn't able to personally get the code to trigger

[zealous swallow]

ill keep you posted

sorry caps

[zealous swallow]

I've unfortunately been running into the same crash about 30 45 min in

[hollow pewter]

hm, i'll probably need to see logs to know what went wrong. do you mind packaging the save folder like you would to report a bug for vanilla and upload it here at all?

sadly this issue isn't consistently at that time period, as the test I did was over 2 hours and never triggered the code I'd made to fix the initial issue

[zealous swallow]

Yeah I dont mind I'll have to set it up with just that mod and trigger it again. I'll let it run until it crashes, do you only want one? After frustration from the crashes I pulled the mod and added my other ones back in and havnt experienced that crash sense

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, just one occurrence of it should be fine, just make sure that it's the entire save folder as I don't want to bother you with asking for files multiple times

[zealous swallow]

Feel free to bother me. I really appreciate the ore distribution, it makes the game feel a little more realistic as far as mineral collection to me. I'm more than happy to help resolve it.

[restive monolith]

I am having issues getting mods to work,

I've followed the steps to the letter and don't know what I am missing

[hollow pewter]

Assuming you managed to get the mods folder created properly and have --enable-mods set correctly, how did you download the mods?

[restive monolith]

I downloaded from the DV wiki mod list

Kitsune Start and No Simulation Hex are working but I cant get mod menu or Industries Of Enceladus to work

I also have DerelictDelights Downloaded but dont know if it is working or not

Well, I dont know how but I fixed it

[hollow pewter]

welp, good to hear

[raw folio]

anyone know where the logic for pre-flight checks is handled?
gonna attempt to make a mod to bypass them

[hollow pewter]

I'm not at home rn (won't be for a while), so I cant be of any definitive help, but I would guess looking in the enceladus folder. Might also be worth giving specifically the enceladus scene a look as well. It's convoluted, but likely within the menu canvas part of it

[raw folio]

I found a file called "preflightinspection.gd" but that seems to just handle the banner

wait no

theres a single variable somewhere that defines the damage level for a component to pass inspection

[raw folio]

found it

currentgame.gd

how hard would it be to modify that function?

[hollow pewter]

Very easy. I'm on mobile rn, but I could probably just write out the entire script for it

[raw folio]

nah ill figure it out

[hollow pewter]

extends "res://CurrentGame.gd"

func getInspectionLimit():
    return 0

Something like that should work

Idk if it would work for over damaged equipment, but that's something else in its own right

[raw folio]

extends "res://CurrentGame.gd"

func getInspectionLimit():
    return -INF

would this work to get around that?
-INF should make any greater than operation return true

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, that probably should. I have no idea how it handles it, but that should work

[raw folio]

do I need a mod main template?
been a while since I modded DV

[hollow pewter]

Might be a good idea to use one. You'd only need to override the script, however I don't remember how to do it off of the top of my head, so I guess you're best looking at the mod main of another mod for the installScriptExtension function

There's an actual template for it somewhere, however I cannot find it. I'll upload it when I get home just to have it as a reference

[raw folio]

I've found zakrins mod main template

but it does alot to modify one function

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, a lot of it could probably be cut out for what you're doing, the template is a generalization of what one would likely need for a mod

[raw folio]

I can probably get rid of the updateTL and replaceScene functions

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, those you likely won't need

[raw folio]

i know ur on mobile but can you give this a once over?

extends Node

const MOD_PRIORITY = 0
const MOD_NAME = "Example Mod"

var modPath: String = get_script().resource_path.get_base_dir() + "/"
var _savedObjects = []

func _init(modLoader = ModLoader):
    l("Initializing")
    loadDLC()

    extends "res://CurrentGame.gd"

    func getInspectionLimit():
        return -INF
    l("inspection limit set to " + str(getInspectionLimit()))

func _ready():
    l("Readying")
    l("Ready")

func installScriptExtension(path: String):
    var childPath: String = str(modPath + path)
    var childScript: Script = ResourceLoader.load(childPath)
    childScript.new()

    var parentScript: Script = childScript.get_base_script()
    var parentPath: String = parentScript.resource_path

    l("Installing script extension: %s <- %s" % [parentPath, childPath])
    childScript.take_over_path(parentPath)

func loadDLC():
    l("Preloading DLC as workaround")
    var DLCLoader: Settings = preload("res://Settings.gd").new()
    DLCLoader.loadDLC()
    DLCLoader.queue_free()
    l("Finished loading DLC")

func l(msg: String, title: String = MOD_NAME):
    Debug.l("[%s]: %s" % [title, msg])

[hollow pewter]

The mod main itself looks ok, however the part to actually change the script has to be within its own script, and then have the script loaded by the mod main

[raw folio]

ah so I need to call "installscriptextention" with a file that has the code

[hollow pewter]

Yes, something like installScriptExtension("CurrentGame.gd"), assuming you make the script next to the mod main

I should probably make an example mod to make stuff like this a lot more obvious. Later ofc

[raw folio]

hmm

script extension didn't detect the parent script

[hollow pewter]

How do you have your folder structure?

[raw folio]

skip.preflight.zip/
    `-- skip.preflight/
        |-- modmain.gd
        `-- currentgame.gd

[hollow pewter]

Hm, it is case sensitive, so might be that

[raw folio]

its got valid cases

ModMain.gd and CurrentGame.gd

[hollow pewter]

Weird, I guess mind if you send the zip in case I can see anything with it at all?

[raw folio]

forgot to do that in the folder structure

can you open zips on mobile?

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, just had to rename the files as the text editor isn't great

I don't see anything inherently wrong, but might be a good idea to remove the indentation of the function in the current game file

[raw folio]

yeah indentation was the issue

[hollow needle]

possible bug: SRO events not giving dialogue pop ups

steps to recreate: launch ship, do a bit of mining, SRO broadcast pops, astrogate to one of them, astrogate to another: bug occurs, astrogate to another: bug occurs again

[hollow pewter]

i see

first thing i notice is that a few of your mods aren't loading properly, they do need to be .zip files to work

ok, this seems to be the issue. the ship itself is trying to create a conversation like normal, however one of your crewmember's morale level is too high (the max in vanilla is supposed to be 0.5), which appears to be Leeroy Fraser

hm, looking at the save it appears to be fine, so might've been something that happened during the dive

@hollow needle was there anything else you did during the dive that might have caused it outside of mining (visited stations, talked with crews, etc)?

[hollow needle]

buy a drink on the ganymede anarchy station?

That's the only thing I can think that might have changed morale

[hollow pewter]

it might have done it actually, i'd need to double check how that's handled, but it might be a lead

[hollow needle]

Can you double check for me that things loaded correctly this time and if the morale has been fixed?

[hollow pewter]

unfortunately, seems to be that everyone except sally has a morale of 0.525. i'll do some further digging, but it is bizarre

[hollow needle]

then no more trips to the twins for the boys! How dare they

[hollow pewter]

also, seems to be a similar issue with the mods. did you convert them to zip or just rename the file extension?

[hollow needle]

I have rezipped now

lets hope it works

seems like they work now at least 😄

unsure on the morale issue though

[hollow pewter]

yeah, myself as well. the bizarre thing is that any change in morale is being clamped between -0.5 and 0.5, so is absolutely a bizarre engagement

[hollow needle]

is there a way I can check ingame what their morale is?

[hollow pewter]

unfortunately not directly

[hollow needle]

Is it still f'd for morale Hev?

[hollow needle]

Another potential bug report? (will follow up in a sec)

[hollow pewter]

i won't be able to check for a while, so i can't really say in the moment, but i'll let you know when i can

[hollow pewter]

i don't quite see it, what seems to be the issue with it?

[hollow needle]

I forgot to follow up one sec

(it was a really long dive)

I have THIICs installed

But they don't show up on dives?

[hollow pewter]

yeah, the interlunar containers are known to not work

i haven't found a fix for it yet, at least one that doesn't totally break other mods

[hollow needle]

Oh 😦 that's very sad

I guess I just continue using THICC's instead?

[hollow pewter]

probably best

[hollow needle]

So much worse though! 😦

[hollow pewter]

unfortunately i'm not able to do any work on mods today, so i likely won't be able to even have a fix available for a while

[hollow needle]

It's all good ^^ I wish I could help. But the only game I have ever made in godot is pretty awful, hah.

Do any of the mods have wikis?

[hollow pewter]

a couple do, but pretty much just IoE, K-tech and hevlib currently

as for K-tech and IoE, i believe they're on their original github pages

[hollow needle]

I might give K Tech a go 😄

[hollow needle]

Another with the same issue, this time no SRO @hollow pewter

Unsure of tje sa,e caise

if the same cause*

[hollow pewter]

Looks to be the same thing, too high of a morale stat, but it's less than it was when I last checked. I don't know if it works, but might be worth spending time using a vulture, as that will at least lower the stability point enough to be of help

[raw folio]

given given how modding works could it theoretically be possible to make a mod that adds energy shields?

or entirely new mechanics?

since mods directly edit the functions of the game

[hollow pewter]

Entirely possible, pretty much the only stuff you don't have access to modify is anything that loads before mods do

[hollow needle]

I don't know what a vulture is? hah. But I have started using a modded thing that adds "bunk beds" for +crew slots -morale. I do not know if it's working or not.

[hollow pewter]

The vulture is a variant of an eagle prospector

[hollow needle]

I do enjoy a little bit of tinkering and whilst I haven't played the game in a while, I have since abandoned my Godot project and would like to maybe give a go at modding 😅 any recommendations on where to start for reading about how to mod ∆V?

[granite robin]

https://delta-v.kodera.pl/index.php/Modding

[granite robin]

https://tenor.com/view/father-forgive-me-for-i-have-sinned-catholic-superstar-bad-gif-17792170770185179041

Oh no

[granite robin]

Well I don't know how to make it load without removing all other translations.

[raw folio]

copy all existing translations in to it?

but even then

I doubt anyone using an uwu language mod doesn't speak english

[granite robin]

I don't know if it's possible to load existing translation files, if not that would require copies of translation reformatted for mod and then there is issue maintaining it all.

[raw folio]

that makes sense

[granite robin]

How I am doing it now likely removes even English so if it updates with new strings it wouldn't display any actual text.

I don't know why overwriting translation is so inconsistent, I guess same thing is happening to my https://discord.com/channels/426287934870781952/1331368363569582233 mod

[hollow pewter]

I've had issues overwriting translations as well. I presume it's to do with how translations are handled, which my current theory is that it treats it like a giant CSV and find the first entry. There is some functions in HevLib that do solve it by unloading translations, adding in the new ones, then adding the translations back to the server, but it is a little faulty rn as it takes exponentially more processing power and time every time you do it

[wintry ridge]

We migrated away from csv years ago.
You should be able to add a new language with TranslationServer.add_translation at runtime

https://docs.godotengine.org/en/3.6/classes/class_translationserver.html

adding new message to existing translation should be doable with translation.add_message
https://docs.godotengine.org/en/3.6/classes/class_translation.html#class-translation-method-add-message

[hollow pewter]

yeah, that is how I have been doing it.

I was just making a guess as to how the server handles translations internally. It's probably closer to SQL in reality, but idk. I'll give a look maybe when I'm closer to being able to use a PC again

[hollow pewter]

Ok, so a little something for anyone who would like to respond with some suggestions, but I've been doing a little thinking about the groups part of mod manifests, and how it's pretty much an unused part and isn't really standardized; so something that I figured could be done would be splitting it into it's own section, and also letting tags be set individually, and could have extra bits of data attached (i.e. listing the names of new equipment added by the mod in an array).
Doesn't have to be anything set in stone, but just a few suggestions for what could be accepted and maybe even used as filtering terms for stuff like menus and other tools like it.

So far, this is the small list of things that (at least in my own mods) would be generally recognized:

adds_equipment
adds_events
adds_gameplay_mechanics
adds_ships
allow_achievements
fun
handle_extra_crew (a small thing I've been working on that I'll reveal later)
is_library_mod
overhaul
quality_of_life
uses_hevlib_research (another thing, but I have said Im working on this before)
visual

Any suggestions to add onto it would be great, and at least a start to a general list

[granite robin]

Looks pretty comprehensive. Maybe adding translation tags translation_en translation_de etc

[hollow pewter]

That's something I didn't consider, and yeah you're absolutely right about needing something like that

[hollow pewter]

ok, i think what i ended up with might be easiest: a "language" tag that stores an array of localization codes, i.e. language=["en","uk_UA"]. I figured using this would be best, as language names can be obtained from them pretty easily using TranslationServer.get_locale_name()

[kindred thicket]

i have spent my entire evening trying to build a custom MPU and it has not worked
I've been building off the MoarLidars mod, which I also customized for mysefl a bit, but the collision boxes are absolutely painful
has anyone done this relatively simply before? I am SO unused to godot, I mostly work in C#

I got the editor, got everything set up, reverse engineered and all, but my goodness I am inexperienced

[hollow pewter]

The thing with MPUs is that they're finicky in their entirety. You can pretty easily make one by duplicating one of the other MPU scenes, which does also make the modification of shape a little easier as most of it is made already and you can just modify the points. the main issue is that you have to add the scene to every single ship AND then make sure it fits the cargo bay as well

it's a lot of tedious work to get it working in the vanilla game, nevermind trying to get it compatible with other mods

[kindred thicket]

oh my god I see the pain now
perhaps I will just stick to

not doing anything

thank you for informing me that I was not in fact hallucinating

[hollow pewter]

i'm going to put something on the backlog for my own library being a helper script or function to make the addition of MPUs easier for just that reason. don't think it'll be available for a while (it's a big backlog already), but something i suppose to look out for in the future

[kindred thicket]

I'm good at patience, and either way I'm just happy to have a copy of this amazing game

[hollow pewter]

that's fair, i suppose if there's anything else that you'd want to add through a mod in the meantime, i could prob be of help for it as well

[kindred thicket]

I've been thinking about implementing better scan logic for the phased array LIDAR but that feels like way too complex of a thing
Also I should be asleep right now so for now I'm just popping in and now out

[hollow pewter]

fair enough. i haven't touched any of the lidar code in a while, it's pretty hardcoded in as well, so i might not be too much help with it, but i'll give it a look

[kindred thicket]

GDscript doesn't seem too horrible but it is VERY much hardcoded, yes
for now I'm off, zzz time

[hollow pewter]

alright, goodnight

[hollow pewter]

decided to give this a go to see what i could do, and well things are going a little slow. seems to be that anything preloaded (which for whatever reason the K37 isn't completely, might explain the problems with WeaponSlots i was having earlier) or loaded before mods doesn't get the updated translations

[granite robin]

So is there a reliable way to overwrite _process and a like functions without need of replacing whole script?

[hollow pewter]

Unfortunately I don't think so, at least not in godot 3 as far as I'm aware

Yeah, a quick few searches pull up a few people saying it's not possible

[granite robin]

So I'll need to think of different method to do a thing then.

[wintry ridge]

what is your use case?

[deft bane]

Oh my dear god

[left grove]

I love it

[left grove]

i propose
Minuwul
or
Minuwal

friend suggests "Minewaw Mawket"
for the "Mineral Mawket"

[deft bane]

Oh my nya

[granite robin]

Hmm yeah that's easy to change. Still don't know how to make it load without deleting all other translations so not something I will actually release.

[left grove]

sorry, no clue on that part. glad you like the suggestions lmao

[granite robin]

So I got and idea with the new dlc coming. KTA24 to compare

[left grove]

ooh

[granite robin]

Somewhat fits? CL150s

[left grove]

https://tenor.com/view/treasure-planet-treasure-planet-disney-jim-gif-19374523

[granite robin]

Nice model from a game spent a lot of time painting emmisive

[left grove]

oooh looks nice

[granite robin]

Making collider, still need to add opening for cargo hold

[left grove]

Feeding cargo into that thing is gonna be a pain lmao. Especially if it has a bouncy RCS

[granite robin]

Uh... I was planing to give only 1 torch... It's a ship after all

Depending on how dlc will work I can probably make cargo hold just a sphere around it, but that obviously won't work for standard game.

[left grove]

OH right this isnt for normal Dv XD

i dont really plan on getting or playing the new DLC, so i keep thinking its for mining

[hollow pewter]

i suppose in the same sense, the Hybrid might actually become a viable ship to pilot in the DLC as well, considering it has the same issues with being too small for a proper cargo bay

[left grove]

is that the racing ship from IoER?

[granite robin]

The D20 holder.

[left grove]

XD

the Titan might be OP on the DLC. swap out its THICC's with MWGs

[hollow pewter]

well, we'll see. same could be said about the OCP with how easy it'd be to get things into it's bay

[left grove]

fair

[granite robin]

Not like I don't want to support normal game but It's going to be difficult. This is what I came up with and it's 14px wide opening while Kitsune's is 23px

Maybe move it back inside ship, but how can I make and hatch and collision for nose

[left grove]

mining hardmode edition lmao

[hollow pewter]

that might be a problem considering that ores have a radius of 1.04m

[granite robin]

More refined, I can get 24 px

Hmm a bit too wide

[hollow pewter]

actually, you might benefit by taking a look at the wasp from IoE, as it does have a similar issue for it's excavator and baffles that you could probably copy over

[granite robin]

Well it uses grinders, not really want to do that. And the cargo hold here is really wide comparing to mine.

[hollow pewter]

fair enough, i don't remember if the baffles may be helpful tho

[granite robin]

Maybe if I scale them way down,

[hollow pewter]

scaling baffles aren't exactly desirable, as i tried it with the wasp and it causes some funkyness with the springs

[granite robin]

Then I can't really use them. Uhh probably need to scale up ship

[hollow pewter]

yeah, you'd probably be better modifying the colliders and adjusting the position of each baffle then

i suppose ship scale also works

[granite robin]

One re-render later, now I need to adjust collider

[granite robin]

And it's in the game.

[granite robin]

Ok got a couple of issues. First of the turbine is missing for some reason and second - the reactor sprite in game is changing back to K37 even tho I changed it in scene. Also apparently if you stick torch too far into the collider it will thrust ship backwards.

[hollow pewter]

did you set the ship type to fission at all, as the turbine slot is restricted to fission ships?

[granite robin]

Ah if it's in ship-ctrl I might have missed it, will check later.

[hollow pewter]

should be this property in the ship-ctrl node

[granite robin]

Yeah that was it, thanks.

[granite robin]

Steady progress adjusted all vanilla MPUs, initial hardpoint stuff, probably going to go with HevLib to remove some equipment I don't find fitting.
Other thing - how does cargo hold area in ship-ctrl is needed? Seems to work fine without it and I don't see anything in script use that variable. So far only thing I figured out is offset which made the cargo bay line up exactly on EIME hud.

[hollow pewter]

i think it works just as a box. i've done a quick search on the area value, and it seems like it's taken literally, with the xy values being the position, with the wh values being the size

easy way to visualize it is to make a panelcontainer node, and give it the same size and position values

as for the reason why it works without it, i believe there is a default value used by the scanner in the case one isn't provided

[granite robin]

I've spent so long trying to figure out why the ship is overlighted, tried every light that I had in scene, turns out it's the pd railgun.

[hollow pewter]

that's weird. wonder if changing the Z-offset of something would help, either that or a light occluder?

[granite robin]

Z index changes nothing in this case. As for light occluder I don't really know where to place light occluder for this

It is present on other ships too, just on mine it's filling whole ship. Looking at it probably something related to normals

[hollow pewter]

ah, i suppose that's fair

[granite robin]

Ok turns out it was material, the filepath to it was wrong so it wasn't using my stuff. It still lights ship too much especially if you equip more at the same time, but it's better than before

[hollow pewter]

i just noticed that there's three hardpoints on it. now i see what you're getting at with an arcade-first design

[granite robin]

That's because I'm currently reusing K37 loadout, but yeah it still will be 3 hardpoints with restrictions.

[hollow pewter]

i see

makes sense

[wintry ridge]

it's for your cargo bay scanner.

and yes, there is a default if this is empty

the default is, however, HUD-dependent. Which you might not want.

[little pine]

@hollow pewter hey thanks for the time, I am just looking to make a variant for the EIME and address a few issue I have with it for usage in the ring. Not planning for it to be balanced, the initial concept was to modify the door opening if possible ( i'd rather not mess with the ship design too much since I am limited in how the physic engine work) and add a stock feature for low capacity repair drones for self only.

I was just wondering if the internal cargo hold exists or is it simulated, I've been assuming it is, but the Max Mass Aboard value seems to contradict that

[hollow pewter]

the internal cargo hold isn't simulated, it's just a mass value that gets appended to the ship's mass (lore wise it's supposed to use a system that evenly distributes it around the COM, but for all intent and purposes it's just mass)

as for the modifications you'd like to make:

• the drones might be a little hard considering a direct 1-1 of what you're asking would probably require a custom drone module to be made, but this could probably be counteracted by making a new equipment slot that can fit only maintenance drones.
• how would you like the door modified, like increasing the size & volume of it, increasing the actuator strength, or something else?

[little pine]

1: I had considered that, I didn't want to deal with the actual simulation and tuning of the ship for adding an additional hardpoint, although I guess it can sit somewhere inbetween the 2 thrusters.
2: I am starting with seeing if I could increase the strength of the excavator or removing the gap between the teeth here ( securing the ore). on the ambitious side, I'd to replicate the opening sequence, but at a smaller scale near the nose to reduces problem with losing ore and general integrity.

[hollow pewter]

ok, well adding new hardpoints is actually pretty easy, so it's a nonissue (and considering you've used IoE, having HevLib available does make it even easier and reduces problems with conflicting mods), and as for 2, I feel that the latter is likely easier, perhaps opting for using the standard excavator (maybe the larger one from the Cothon-211), just reskinning it to match the look

[little pine]

I really enjoy the idea of a big mouth and how it opens up quite similar to a predator the way i imagine it, so i was thinking of something like this while out whole asteroid mining with it. The green areas moves to the side when open, instead of angled downward.

[hollow pewter]

ooh ok, that actually sounds pretty neat

[little pine]

in my opinion it would make model E much more fun to fly, i reckon the idea of it was just a luxury vessel, why not go all the way 😄

the only other ship I could eat a good chunk with is the OCP and that one is a bit dubious to fly, the issue with ARM getting ore stuck behind thruster deterred me from using it.

huh, is this ship excavator really just the thin collision polygon at the tip?

[hollow pewter]

yup, that crack is purely visual

[little pine]

wonder why it throw up my precious Be when im doing donut

[hollow pewter]

probably the force overcoming the springs

[little pine]

I reckon making that thicker would easily solve my issue, but I like the idea of opening sideway or a scaled down angled downward more 😛

[hollow pewter]

also, probably should ask, do you want the gaps on either side removed. I tried to follow the original door collider, but considering it's solid now, might not need them anymore

[little pine]

i reckon it would make the door more stable right?

[hollow pewter]

i doubt it, im completely removing the old door design and just sectioning off the top of the excavator for this design

[little pine]

ahh i see, man I do love godot

[hollow pewter]

door is basically these two polys at the top as of rn

[little pine]

that's pretty much how I visualized it, that's a much more reasonable opening

[hollow pewter]

not bad for a first attempt, over exaggerated opening yes but at least it shows it works

much better. lemmie finish up some text and i'll package it up for you

@little pine

[left grove]

now THAT is a nice functional cargobay on the EIME

heck, even changing the bay opening animation to be rotational instead of a slide would be a nice change.
(on the stock EIME i mean, i like this tiny opening version too. though it might have some chunk deflection issues since the doors angle away from the opening)

[little pine]

holy crap you did it so fast

[little pine]

thanks to Hev i have a base to play with, i can see what they did with the explaination too, I'll mess around and tune it. I think the issue with ore deflection is okay, it'd probably limit its nanodrone usage a bit. I could cut or rotate the excavator a bit more to make the animation more angled, we'll see

[left grove]

yeah Hev is awesome

and welcome to modding Dv! glad to see another

[little pine]

thank you, i was excited when i found out it was made in godot, I've always wanted to play with the engine more

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, currently it's more of a slide to open mechanism, so there'd be a bit of effort to make it rotate around something without using say the standard excavator as a base, but it should give an example as to how it's done

[left grove]

oh yeah changing a slide into a hinge in godot is probably gonna be a pain. but having it open on a hinge like this would make it INSANELY efficient in catching chunks, but still give it the risk of losing everything in the bay if you hit something
(im sorry my mouse paint skills are sad)

[little pine]

lol thats perfectly legible nearly on par with my sad skills as well

[left grove]

I gave the EIME a front butt

ill never unsee it now

[left grove]

I learned that we had a tiny modding community via google search. Rena-chan and DigitalBarrito gave me a 40 ish minute run down on how to use godot just enough to make mods.

I cant modify the scripts for stuff yet, but i can pretty quickly make a weaponslot or module XD.
Hev recently showed me how to use the debug system with mods for quickly testing changes too

[little pine]

that's awesome, kudos to ya for learning, i had made a couple small games for game jams with some of my friends and that was about it. Was just one of the thing we chose to do for the month and i kept thinking about it, i just hasn't found any game i feel like i would really enjoy modding in

well fast forward over a hundred hours into this game i thought this might just be the perfect one

I do wish we have steam workshop though

[hollow pewter]

yeah, it was pretty high on the last community vote, but it does need there to be enough interest from both people who want to play with mods as well as modders to make it a worthwhile addition

[little pine]

it does have the benefit of assessibility to mods, with the upcoming arcade dlc that would do well with a less niche playerbase, I wasn't aware that mods are available and endorsed due to the lack of workshop or any mention really. I only found it reading the wiki for lore. It's fair though unless there are enough people willing to mod it's not really worth it

[left grove]

personally, since the game isnt even at 1.0 yet. i think a workshop should wait. since the updates could end up breaking older mods.

it would cause a lot of frustration for players if they found a mod that they liked, and then it broke cause of an update. but the modder stopped updating and fixing the mod

[hollow pewter]

1.0 was 2 years ago tho...

[left grove]

wait

sorry im behind a bit XD

[little pine]

oh okay i was gonna say, i saw 2.0 on the roadmap 😄

[left grove]

its like 95F in my room rn. so my brains fried XD

2.0

[little pine]

there're already a graveyard of mods, maybe it could be a community effort to revive them and update them to current

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, I have been making an effort to fix the ones that are most broken (see https://discord.com/channels/426287934870781952/1383342280878067762), although there are ones that still work but aren't compatible with other mods

[little pine]

im unfamiliar with how the developer operates, do they plan on providing support for base games and generating revenue with dlcs? it's not a bad approach, considering the game physic engine has much potential, it feels really really nice to fly

[left grove]

thankfully Better refining is such a simple mod that it just works

[little pine]

personally id love a more economically challenging version haha, I wasn't really struggling much in the ring, luckily i was okay with chilling out and mining

[left grove]

i think theres the more minerals mod? that does that

[hollow pewter]

Base game is the main focus, DLCs are small additional items that are supposed to be extra customisation to how you play, but all main game features and functionality stick with the base game

[little pine]

oh wow that's a generous development cycle, you dont see much of that nowadays

32 years to 2.0 is pretty funny on the roadmap as well lol

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, Koder has said that anything he would consider fits the base game won't be put in a dlc, period

[left grove]

I respect that mindset

and the choice to make the demo for Dv just the normal game without save loading? absolute genius

[little pine]

lol i booted the demo up and saw the msg so i bought it to test 😛

[little pine]

hmm having a lot of trouble slicing the texture part, i think i might have to cut the texture myself into 2 slices outside of godot 🙁

3.6 is rough

im thinking it goes like this, ive never used these grooves before

the entire top part is a sibling node of the rest of the "original" hull. so that i can move all the moving mechanic to just this part.

i probably should test the grooves before trying texture but not sure where to access the game debug yet

this will be a long-term project haha, did not manage to get a dive in tonight, i wish i have more freetime

[hollow pewter]

I'm guessing that you're trying to remove the holes in the excavator, yes?

[hollow pewter]

this guide should show you the proper steps to run the game & mods via the editor https://delta-v.kodera.pl/index.php/Using_the_Godot_Editor

[little pine]

not quite, the texture is a rectangle only and i want an angled cut.

[hollow pewter]

ah

[little pine]

since the top part is sliding out at an angle. I work with CAD design and godot is just uhh a bit lacking 😛

[hollow pewter]

i've never attempted anything like that before, but actually might be useful in future. i'll take a look and see if i can find anything of help

[little pine]

The godot guide sorta confuse me actually, I think I've gotten the mod loaded, however it just shoot me this msg every time i click on the editor.

[hollow pewter]

try restarting the editor, usually fixes those sorts of things

[little pine]

i think this sliding will work well with a decent cut of the texture, since even the vanilla animation is really just the two sprites moving apart

also, do you have issues with renaming nodes? it freezes for a few seconds every time i change a node name

[mystic lintel]

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[hollow pewter]

depends on the scene and the device, with ship scenes it does freeze occasionally, but it's a lot quicker on my workstation than my minipc

[mystic lintel]

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[hollow pewter]

try using the Polygon2D node, it allows you to set a texture so it might be the way forward

[mystic lintel]

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[little pine]

ah dang it, i thought the bot was only visible to me, sorry

[little pine]

I'll try that

[hollow pewter]

lol it's fine

[little pine]

yea it keeps msg me everytime theres "time" in my chat lol

[hollow pewter]

yeah this is def what you're looking for

[hollow pewter]

actually, suppose i should ask to check earlier rather than later, how do you have your ModMain and ModLoader scripts setup so i can see if it'll work outside the editor?

[little pine]

I copied the script from the github repo, i also made a ModMain.gd following the wiki tutorial but I hasn't touched it yet. I tried to load in the EIME Mk II you sent to see how you grabbed the excavator from another ship

[hollow pewter]

ah ok

[little pine]

I'll work on the ship texture tomorrow then, the polygon is much nicer. the rest of the ship modding is quite self-explainatory like you said. I'll also have to adjust the baffler on this as well, and add compatibility for the IoE mpus

[nova prawn]

@hollow pewter when you mentioned ghost slots over in #help-and-support, whats the sort of thing you meant with that? Can I expect the save to port over into this version in a fashion that is mechanically fully functional, or should I expect things to irrecoverably break?

[hollow pewter]

Well, you won't get any proper passing over, it'll just reset to either a slot default of whatever is default for the equipment node (I don't remember which). Best thing to do is just sell all equipment before swapping. I've also gotten reports of some ships not passing over either, so I couldn't say really (it's also been so long since I last had someone ask about it I've not really done any experimentation on it). I'd just say make a backup and see what transfers over the first time

[nova prawn]

sounds good, I'll make a backup and see

...god, can someone remind me where I can figure out how to install mods

[hollow pewter]

Have zip file in the mods folder inside the game directory, and set the --enable-mods launch argument

[nova prawn]

thanks

@hollow pewterdumb question, if I already have the 1.7.2 revamp installed should I still expect issues?

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, it's wholly incompatible with the rewrite (which I do need to get around and fix the folders so I can give it a proper zip naming convention)

[nova prawn]

interesting

all the slots carried over but all the modded ships are gone

...oh that means I lose my wasp named "Undeclared Fighter"

...what the actual fuck. Now that I went back, sold the ships and loaded that save with the new mod, it refuses to load.

i guess selling the ships broke something. I guess I'll have to abandon them.

[granite robin]

Maybe cycling dealer to not have those ships will fix loading with updated mod

[hollow pewter]

yeah, something like that might be it. I believe the issue with ships not loading is due to their hashes not lining up, despite being the same model and all

[nova prawn]

In the end I just abandoned them, which put me in a tough spot for a second cuz back when I stopped playing I'd JUST invested a massive sum into one of them so I was broke but like, I've got a driftmining titan so I got back into the millions in like an hour long dive and that was that

[hollow pewter]

backreading this, i completely forgot to expand hevlib functionality for MPUs and other equipment. i'll try to figure something out for it, but may be a while considering i've got a lot currently on the plate for the next patch

[little pine]

no worry! this is just something I wanna do, so any input is good enough. Oh and polygon2d is a bust, i cant attach a normal map onto it

[hollow pewter]

aw, that's unfortunate

[little pine]

i guess I could make a custom node for it

3.6 is so different haha

[hollow pewter]

yup, unfortunately seems like the direct fix was something added in 4.0 so no idea if there's an equivalent workaround

actually, i suppose you could just attach a ViewportTexture and render the sprite inside of it instead

i've never tried something like it before, but probably would be suitable

[little pine]

I miss canvastexture soooo much

xD

[hollow pewter]

ok, yeah it's definitely one method of using it, this is the sprite and normal of an ATLAS vessel + a light source contained in a viewport. only concern i have is that the normals might not operate correctly outside of nodes in the viewport

actually, you're in luck. the normals appear to work with lighting outside of the viewport

[little pine]

thats so interesting

what a workaround lol I've been searching the internet

[hollow pewter]

i don't think it's quite 1-1, might be a little funky but we'll see how it works in practice

actually, i suppose if it doesn't work, it might be something to see how the ship paint system works from vanilla, as that's actually not too far off what you're trying to do

[little pine]

you can paint your vessels in vanilla?

[hollow pewter]

yeah, there's a quick guide in the tales dlc, but it's basically a small texture file that gets applied over the hull section. there's a decent collection in https://discord.com/channels/426287934870781952/566546115252584448

hm, that system appears to be purely shader-based, no idea what could be done with it right now, but it's an option to try nontheless

[hollow pewter]

so, after a little bit of digging, normal maps can be applied via shader, but that means i have to learn shader code. maybe when i have some more free time

[little pine]

interesting, so vanilla uses both a normal map and a canvastexture for shader. I don't understand shader much neither, so yep gonna be a learning process

i think it should be simple to let the shader accepts a normal map, but using it is beyond me

is there a quick way to test the changes other than loading up the game into a save?

❤️

its difficult to see due to the physic engine, but it appears to be working

i'd have to finish out the other side and tune the spring, it's pretty funny how the ship spins around

[hollow pewter]

Unfortunately I haven't made anything of the sorts. quickest thing is to have the ship prepurchased on a test save

[hollow pewter]

Try installing the VelocityPlus mod, it removes the HEX shader from the sim

[little pine]

i think ive got it, gotta match the texture now. I used vanilla shader and i need to add a parameter to accept a normal map here instead and treat it like the one sprite2d feeds it

got it, it was actually very simple. i modified the vanilla shader and added
uniform sampler2D normalMap: hint_normal;
then used it where the shader calls for the normalmap instead of the inbuilt parameter

this would be a very useful trick to recycle vanilla texture for various things as well i think

[little pine]

matched the texture, there might be issue with the collisionshape sliding out and getting stuck on the lower half,

[hollow pewter]

Oh, that's really neat.

If it's ok with you, do you mind sending me your copy of the shader? would absolutely be useful to have on hand for future projects

[hollow pewter]

If it's flush or close to flush, you should be fine with it. Might be a little wobble (the mod I sent you had a little bit of it), but generally looks like a more realistic set of mechanics imo

[little pine]

of course! this one is a modification of vanilla ao-spec-difuse.shader, I added
uniform sampler2D normalMap: hint_normal; on line 9 and replaced line 69 vec4 nm = texture( NORMAL_TEXTURE, UV); with vec4 nm = texture( normalMap, UV);

that should work for any shader in the game that calls for the inbuilt normal map i think

[hollow pewter]

sweet, thanks

[little pine]

would you look into adapting MatchDamage.gd to extend polygon2d? i think that originally extends sprite. im not sure what Koder used but its throwing me the identifier not declared error when i try to extend polygon2d instead

[hollow pewter]

sure

[little pine]

declaring it as a var fix the error but im not sure what that changes

[hollow pewter]

that variable is what defines the damage level of the hull (increasing it means a more damaged ), and is basically an offset for the sprite's rect. looks like another thing that Polygon2D doesn't directly support (smh)

[little pine]

I love godot to death, but every time i look back on an older version, it hurts

the move from 3 to 4 is such day and night on some less developed part of the engines

[hollow pewter]

yeah, tis a shame that it's such an uneconomical process to port large projects between

[little pine]

yep, maybe in a few years someone could finetune a LLM for porting gdscript

so to clear my understanding, the GroveJoint2D slides the sprite, meanwhile DampedSpring holds the sprite together when not opening?

i downsized the original setup down to 2 grooves and 1 spring on each side, but i think i might need more to hold everything together especially the top and bottom pieces

[hollow pewter]

i believe the grooves are to keep the doors in place when moving, the springs are what move the doors directly

[little pine]

hmm so i need to restore the original amount for stability

3 and shortened make the whole thing umm jiggle

[little pine]

Hev, i'm a bit confused on why the ship falls apart in the physic engine, it looks like the top pieces and the bottom piece just gets flung into infinity

top and bottom are groovejoint2d, the 2 in the middle are spring. they are both set to their perspective left and right opening claw

the two collision polygon for the bottom non moving part and the top moving part

[hollow pewter]

Ok, I do need to ask a couple of things first: 1) are both parts of each door supposed to move, or is it just the top? 2) if it is just the top, it might be easier to incorporate the bottom halves into the bottom collider

I do kinda need to know how you want the doors to move here to get an understanding of what you're trying to do

Actually, scratch those questions, I did just double read and see that you want the bottom halves to be static. I'd recommend deleting the bottom halves and adding to the ship's collider polygon (although you might want to keep them as a reference while you add it)

it's similar to how i did it with the ship variation I sent you, however the door mechanism for that one was taken from another ship as i was aiming for a horizontal slide with less effort than changing the vanilla beak

[little pine]

ah i understand, let me try that thank you

[hollow pewter]

it doesn't directly fix the issue, but it should fix any collider issues as it would make the bottom halves directly part of the ship instead of being free-floating rigid bodies. it also should make it easier to copy over the vanilla EIME's beak code, just replacing the sprite and collider with yours

[little pine]

it seems the top parts are not held together, the door flies away. hmm this is my current node tree for the beak

[hollow pewter]

you won't need the bottom parts on the door for the beak node, should end up only containing nodes part of the top. i'd move the MPUs and textured polygons, as you only want the moving parts within the beak tree. also make sure that the nodes are properly connected via the springs and all

i'll be home in like an hour, maybe then i could take a look and provide some proper help

[little pine]

i'll keep tinkering, thank you

[little pine]

i think im lost here 😄

[hollow pewter]

I'll give it a look when I get home

[little pine]

so to mod something like a msu into the game, youd have to add it to every ship right?

[hollow pewter]

Yup

I have intentions of making a module to avoid having to do that, but it would require some fuckery with colliders and all

Not too difficult until you factor in that the OCP and the EIME exist

[little pine]

lol, i used the eagle as a base to figure out how it works and i realized the EIME doesnt work like anything else in the game xD

[hollow pewter]

Luckily, there is a vanilla feature that (currently only) the MPU slot uses that omits an equipment option from the menu if it doesn't exist on the ship, which is a lucky thing as it allows for a fallback if one can't be programmatically added

[little pine]

ah that's nice, i do love how the game handles loading in modules

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, it's a very complex system that is a godsend for koder and modders alike when adding stuff

[little pine]

thats such a massive amount of work put into IoE

[hollow pewter]

Yeah, it's a long time project from a couple of people actually

I'm just maintaining it with the occasional addition or balance change, most of it isn't my stuff really

[hollow pewter]

giving this a look now, and i'm missing these dependancies

i'm also guessing by the way these dependancy file paths are, you're directly modifying the vanilla ship, or at least storing resources in vanilla folders. I wouldn't exactly say it's the best strategy if you're looking to make a mod, as you'd have to make the zip in a way that matches the file structure when making proper releases, which is all-around a PITA. you're going to be better off in the long run making a dedicated folder for your mod and having all resources stored there.

luckily it's not the end of the world as godot will update resource paths when you move them around

[little pine]

gotcha, i was looking at a couple different parts and it was just easier to test the changes so i dont have to copy back and forth.

[hollow pewter]

fair enough

[little pine]

the shader is the one i sent you yesterday, matchdamageE is exactly the same as the normal one. I messed up and forgot that duplicate links resources so i made a unique

[hollow pewter]

i don't think the match damage is actually necessary for the beak sprites, as the beak doesn't have any damage textures anyway

[little pine]

ha that makes it easier

[hollow pewter]

ok, i've loaded the shader and just replaced the match damage script with the vanilla one just for loading sake

[hollow pewter]

scratch that out, turns out it does, but due to how limited (and useless in many cases) the texturing for polygon2d is, you'd need to make an equivalent to the system so is out of the question for the time being

[little pine]

it's not a major part anyway, and the rest of the body still shows damage

[hollow pewter]

yup, the damage is hard to spot normally anyway, so likely won't be noticed

also good to know that i forgot to remove one of the scripts for it, as i got a crash for incorrect type when trying to load the ship :P

[little pine]

ah i think it extended sprite

and i attached it to polygon2d, that was probably why i made a unique script. huh that was probably a dummy i dont think i fixed the matchdamage to work with polygon

[hollow pewter]

yup, doesn't matter anyway as i removed it from the other polys, just forgot on one of them

huh, so one of the issues was that the two sides had to be explicitely Claw Left and Claw Right

[little pine]

well ive got to get to bed, got a long day tomorrow. I'll tinker with it over the weekend if I get home early.

i've modified that part, hmmm i thought that was it

did i miss the reference somewhere

[hollow pewter]

likely, it's also a problem with modifying vanilla scripts directly instead of extending them as it does lead to cases like this when sharing files. i'm using 100% unmodified vanilla assets on my end

[little pine]

i'll have to check the extending section again. it'll be a mess when i try to package this lol

[hollow pewter]

i can aide with that fine, if and when i find a fix for the beak, i'll send it to you packaged as a mod would. i've also just renamed the nodes to what the vanilla game expects, it's a lot easier and saves the hassle of extending scripts

this also doesn't help...

might just be placeholder text tho, considering it is connecting two nodes that inherid PhysicsBody2D

actually, yk what, i'll just copy over the vanilla EIME's beak and add the modifications in post, see if that makes a difference

[hollow pewter]

okok, that was a step in the right direction. there is some wobble when it's closed and opening, but fully open is perfectly fine. just a few more tweaks and it should be ready

a bit of tinkering with colliders later and i've come to the conclusion that it's something to deal with the springs for. i'm going to leave it for now as it's starting to get late, and i don't want to deal with the headache that is physics objects while tired, but lemmie package up the ship as a mod so you could tinker and see how the mod is packaged. i'll still be available via text for further help and if you have questions

it still does contain the old vessel from the first one i sent, but the new one is the EIME_II.tscn ship

[real lotus]

Silly question do MPU Efficiency values of over 1 work

Was changing up the old BetterRefinig mod for my self and it feels like it doesn't do anything atm
Can't do testing at the moment ,but can't stop thinking about it

[hollow pewter]

lucky for u i actually have the MPU script open rn so lemmie check

[hollow pewter]

well, i don't see anything that limits it to 100%, so should work above that and break the laws of thermodynamics

[real lotus]

Probably will tune it back after testing but
Laws of physics are overrated anyway

[hollow pewter]

absolutely lol

[left grove]

yes MPU values over 1 work.
if i use my OP "better refining" mod values. i have MPU refine rates up to 190% efficiency.
(1.9)

[real lotus]

yup i tested it with 2.5 during the day
Its silly
Tuned gets like 360% efficiency
Won't push it further

[hollow pewter]

i also just realized that using a preprocessor module from IoE unintentionally nerfs it, as having one installed caps all processor efficiencies to 95%

[little pine]

can you elaborate on how the preprocessor works? does it add onto the main mpu functionality or does it function as its own?

also ty for tinkering with the ship, i'll check it out tonight

[hollow pewter]

mix of both. it melts rocks and recovers remass on it's own, however the mineral efficiency is the percentage that the MPU's efficiency is modified to

[little pine]

also, i dont think the Conlido Internal Storage Rack works, at least on the vulture. It has a 14000kg divided cargo capacity, i have the conlido freightReady Hoppers also installed and that pushed my storage to 20,000. The 4,000 from CISR never got applied

[hollow pewter]

hm, yeah i see that now. i suppose it's more obvious now the total hold marker has been added, but it looks like none of the hold kits affect storage numbers

although, looking at it, it might be another case of the equipment not loading until the ship is fully controllable

[little pine]

it is i believe, the cargo hold simulation also doesnt update for the cargo bay accessories, is that what you're referencing?

the NDSBH is interesting also, well all of the hold type modification. Since it only modifier the single ore value of the hold, what is the design concept behind it?

even with the NDSBH youd end up with 11,620 which would be less than what you can carry by default

[hollow pewter]

well, it doesn't modify the singular hold capacity, rather converts the bay to amorphic and multiplies based off of the total processed storage size, rather than one ore's size, so you'd get 69,720kg of total storage. it used to be 100% efficient, however i dropped it down a power as it's too broken, especially on larger vessels like cothons

[hollow pewter]

yeah, exactly that

[little pine]

might have to test it further, the last time i tested it, it dropped the vulture hold to 11620

[hollow pewter]

hm, now that i think about it, might actually be an issue with preprocs, as i have changed the way they work too

nope, its actually the both of them. hm

[little pine]

yep it's def not where it should be, not sure why it's now a bit over, i think i might have left my other cargo modification in

yea i had the CISR installed that's probably why, interesting that it works when not installed along with the freightready version

[little pine]

it looks like the targeting tuning description is backward, lowering the percentage increases the protocol priority

[hollow pewter]

Looks fine to me, you have closest angle set to a higher priority to ship proximity. Also the fact that this is a piece of vanilla equipment (just it's usually unobtainable, IoE only adds it to equipment lists), and is using almost identical code to the NDPT, I'd assume it's a similar behaviour to that

Also, for the issue of hold kits, I'm probably going to be reworking the system of adding storage via modules entirely. As I have it, either the hold modules don't work, or they increase the processed hold by magnitudes of several hundred tonnes per second depending on circumstances and conditions, so I think what I'll need is a unified way to modify it rather than through each equipment individually

[little pine]

hmm im gonna have to try different configuration for the target.

[left grove]

ah its a strange way to word it but i kinda get what its doing, because of how the math is working.

"100% distance to your vehicle" would be closer. (in range) example numbers, 100m max range. 1m target priority
"10% distance to your vehicle" would be furthest away object in its range. example numbers, 100m max range 90m target priority.

this is roughly what i assume its trying to explain.

[little pine]

ive read too many documents today to grasp this 😭 setting both angle and distance to 120% achieves the behavior i want so i'll revisit it later

[left grove]

thats fair lmao.

basically the closer to 100% you go, the closer the rocks it focuses on

kinda goofy

[hollow pewter]

I haven't looked at it myself, but I'm assuming it's a standard weighting system. Sorta between three actions, one or two are more desirable than the others, so if it isn't too much more work it'll choose those

[little pine]

i gotta look into the canadaarm AI when i get home tonight, id love to bind the pull back action to another keybind instead of sticking to open excavator

it's not a major pain point but i find myself frequently wishing i could control the arm without opening the cargo

[hollow pewter]

Fixed!

crazy thing is that this system also shouldn't have a need for a hold modifer node to be placed in the ship scene, so it should also make it compatible with non-IoE or vanilla ships

[little pine]

that is so good, did you spawn the nodes with script?

ngl when you said you gotta rework it i was expecting like a few weeks hah

[hollow pewter]

Not quite, however that is something I'm planning on using for aux bay units. What im doing is modifying the ship control script in a manner that checks installed equipment, and every time it finds something found from a list, it adds the amount it changed the hold by to a variable to add in post

[little pine]

ahh i see, also since you are working on this, i think some of the value for the cargo hold equipments are off. i have the bulker and voyager on a pigeon prospector atm, and i could store like 70,000kg of W in my cargo, and it's divided

i just offloaded a ton, but this is still way over what it supposed to be able to carry

[hollow pewter]

i think that just might be a bug with how it is at current release, as you'd only be getting at most 26 tonnes per mineral if they were working as intended

[little pine]

itd probably be fixed after this yea, this is way op