the ultimate mech (is what I need your help making)

[fossil portal]

Hello, I am running a Lancer game right now which has started with Solstice Reign into Winter Scar and will continue into the Custom game. At some point in the future, the party will interact with a Karraken noble so rich they have gained access to every core mech license purely through monetary means. The players won't necessarily be fighting them; however, it's a strong possibility. What I need your help with is creating the ultimate mech build possible with every license in the core book, regardless of whether there would actually be enough license points to unlock it all by LL12.

Do NOT be afraid of making a build that is outright unfair to the players. This isn't necessarily a fight they are supposed to win or even engage with; the noble is more of a hazard they have to work around. Lore-wise, this mech should be built specifically for fighting other lancer mechs, so if you want to build into some BS, go for it.

[tired bolt]

1st of all- don’t use PC stats to build him

Lancer breaks down with PVP- if you throw an LL12 PC at 3 LL0 PC’s, the LL12 will most likely get wrecked

Make a Tier 3 Ultra- without more details about what you want him to do you’re gonna have to figure it out from there. If I had to guess, make him a Berserker with Supreme Melee,, Fortress, and Ravager Turret

And then load on some more Berserker traits top of that

[sweet marlin]

Ultra Veteran Commander if you really want the biggest and baddest

[tired bolt]

And then make him a Veteran with Lightning Reflexes, Limitless, and Insulated

Commander idk what you’d do with

[sweet marlin]

Don't forget argus armor, and/or any or all of the immunity-granting traits

[tired bolt]

Argus Armor over Ravager Turret, good point

[sweet marlin]

mainly the added structure and stress.

[tired bolt]

Thanks to Stampede Defense idk how useful those would be

[sweet marlin]

very, you just don't get applied the conditions at all now (and as such get to keep your resistance to damage)

[tired bolt]

Superior Frame over Fortress maybe, but I like the idea of being a much bigger wall to scale in terms of applying debuffs rather than being outright immune

[sweet marlin]

oh of course

but I don't think the point of this is to be any fun at all, so...

[tired bolt]

Fair, then Supreme Melee, Superior Construction, and Argus Armor

Or how about Fortress, Superior Frame, and Argus Armor

[sweet marlin]

If you want the strictly best mech it is possible to have, not being able to interact with it is unfortunately something that is requiered

[crystal torrent]

Sometimes you also need to ask yourself the difference between whether you can do something and whether you should. Big hardest boss in the galaxy can be fun on paper but can be absolute arse and unfun to play against

[sweet marlin]

nothing we said here is fun to be against

debatably, most of the ultra option we suggested are Not Great from a game design standpoint even when taken alone and on something that is only an Ultra, so putting multiple on something even stronger is just Eh.

At this point, just run it narratively

"this guy's got the best mech made for mech-hunting, you can't win. What do you do ?"

[silent wren]

Unwinnable boss fights are cute as a videogame trope, but in a game where "Every fight is winnable if you play smart enough" is a central conceit, they're liable to just be deeply frustrating

If they're truly meant to be an indominable object, don't break out the battlemap, just play it narratively. If they're meant to be an obstacle to work around, feel free to represent them as some kind of custom battlefield effect that can't be scratched.

[limber plank]

If you want a "guaranteed loss" type of scene, I'd honestly run it as a narrative moment.
Like a big one I've pulled was tweaking the opening of Solstice Rain, so that instead of being shot down by generic artillery fire, they get brought down by a short-cycle lance shot from Solvan Kiros

They're all in the shuttle (A tight space that will bring them down with it), and the enemy they're dealing with is literally gone in a flash, so there's not much of a chance to be like "Actually I wanna fight!", just a shot that brings them right down, and loosely introduces them to the final boss

I'd also say this: conceptually, Lancers mechs aren't generally something where money is gonna directly improve strength. More advanced/complex mechs require a higher degree of skill to pilot, but for the most part having access to a printer is gonna equalize the resources available to a scrappy freedom fighter and to a wealthy noble. A mech with a bunch of structure points and nasty combos isn't a sign of a more expensive item, its a sign of a pilot who can handle a machine like that.
Some good ways to represent a wealthy NPC would be

• Weird tech that you couldn't just print
• Narrativizing the mech as being largely under the control of a top of the line comp/con or NHP that drives the mech for the "pilot" for the most part
• Including a squad of strong bodyguards who were clearly expensive

[fossil portal]

Sorry for not responding for a few days I honestly didn’t expect people to respond this quick.

I’d like to make some clarifications for people with concerns.
First of all for people say “just use a npc stat block” the point of this guy is to show the inherent unfairness of people with unlimited resources being allowed to compete (mech fight tournament) and a npc stat block wouldn’t be able to convey that as well especially considering one of the players loves to scan enemy’s and look at their equipment.

Second of all for those saying players shouldn’t be put in auto loss fights I’d like to clarify this won’t even be a “fight”. The npc is a champion who previously defeated one of the characters mentors in the final match of the tournament. They will be meeting him in an out of mech narrative environment and he MIGHT offer a friendly sparring match in the arena depending on how the interaction goes. anybody who hits 1 structure will be pulled from the match and auto ejection functions have been installed in the mechs in case anyone is gonna explode. The point of the fight is to demonstrate how if they intend to climb to the very top of the ranks they can’t do so through brute force. Their mentors will assist them in gathering resources and reserves throughout the entire tournament including any other advantages they can think of in order to prepare for when they go up against this guy again.

Lastly I’ve been playing with these players for a long time now mainly in dnd. They are experienced enough to know they aren’t supposed to win EVERY fight they take and more importantly they know me well enough that if I put them in a fight they can’t win it’s to set up a much larger story point not just to beat them down.

The actual interaction with the guys mech will most likely go “hay I’m gonna scan this guy. Oh shit that a lot of gear we should prepare for when we fight him half a campaign away”

Also sorry for the wall of text

[silent wren]

I'm gonna point out that an Ultra NPC is going to have a lot more shock and awe value than any PC statblock, as it's costed for four PC statblocks rather than, y'know, one.

Players wish they had multiple turns per round, Juggernaut, Volley Module, or Supreme Maintenance

[frozen grotto]

The reason people have said “ just use NPC stat blocks” is that is the way lancer was designed.

TTRPG are designs with goals and setting assumptions.

Example Dungeons & Dragons assumes a fantasy sword and sorcery world. Blades in the dark assumes heist.

Lancer is going with mecha so the player/main characters are inherently more powerful than NPC’s. But the NPC’s are specialists, PCs are generalists. Also, the NPC’s don’t have to worry about resources like the players. Since a players resources has to last them 2 to 3 combat encounters.

If you want a boss fight, that’s what the ultra template is for , and built for

You can mix and match NPC powers “technically” for homebrew or mixed things up

[sweet marlin]

Agter reading everything you've said here, I have a more specific question :
You mention you want them to eventually beat this guy, later in the campaign. Do you intend to change that guy's statblock between that first battle and the point where they're actually supposed to beat him ?
If yes, you can honestly just do wahtever. If no, then you have to use an NPC class to make that eventual fight any good.

Also, something you could consider for it : put other NPC's traits/systems on it

Cross-class NPCs can open some really powerful stuff that is still natively adapted for being used against PCs

[fossil portal]

Yes I do intend to have them fight him later on but not so straight forward.
Throughout this part of the campaign a major focus (other than the actual tournament fights) is going to be the gathering of resources and connections.
My intention is to have his stat block remain mostly the same (I’ll make changes if they are needed) but by the time the players fight him for real they will have gathered a large list of counters specifically for him and possibly even used their connections to sabotage his mech directly.

To ensure they actually do this their mentors are going to have a set aside section of downtime in between every match called “workshopping” where they will help them prepare.

[sweet marlin]

Yeah then just make an unfair NPC from the start

Do give them limitless no matter what

[fossil portal]

Ah but absurdly over equipped mech is so much more fun.

Your probably right tho

[silent wren]

I do reiterate that "Look at all these NPC modules you'll never have access to" sells the fantasy better than "Oh, there's 5 seperete LL3 items, I guess that build is technically illegal"

[sweet marlin]

If you want your players to fight it in mech combat -> use NPC-style things
No way around it, otherwise something won't work somewhere, and it probably won't even be fun

So yeah, deathcounter, devastator, volley module, avenger turret, the Ultra traits that give immunity to statuses (make those be what sabotage disables, they're not that much fun to be against so I find that to ba a great way to merge those narrative and mechanical elements), limitless, that kind of thing